Re: [MBZ] M119 Oil Pan

[MG via Mercedes]

Alcohol will take it right off.

MG

Curley McLain via Mercedes wrote:
If you are talking about household/construction silicone seal, yes, it 
is under the "improper use of"
I was talking about the blue, red or black silicone form a gasket 
specifically made for engine use.


Overuse also falls under "improper use of"

I have seen only 1 or 2 cases where a gasket had adhesive applied at the 
factory.   Vac pump is a very thin gasket, large and easily torn.  When 
replacing the vac pump in a car a thin coat of blue goo helps immensely 
to hold the gasket in place while the pump is installed.   Same with the 
transfer or lift pump on the IP, especially on an 85 cali car.  There is 
no room to work, you are working blind, so the blue goo is essential to 
hold the gasket in place for assembly.


I quit using #2 permatex because it is nearly impossible to remove.  The 
permatex blue and red products stick well, even where there is a coating 
of thin oil.  YMMV

Peter Frederick via Mercedes 
January 29, 2018 at 7:37 AM
The issue with silicone sealants is that they are often inappropriate 
for the job. Unless formulated for use in contact with oil, they often 
refuse to stick (ditto for use with coolant, as I found out in Canada 
getting a water pump to seal in the dead of winter).


Worst case you get what happened to the 75 300D my brother had -- some 
idiot glopped a huge amount of orange silicone sealant on the oil 
filter housing, with the result that a lump peeled off and plugged the 
oil supply to #2 main badly enough it ate the bearing.


The gasket is supplied with adhesive on it.

The service manual will specify the correct sealant and amount. 
Typically, if the gasket need sealing, it will be supplied with 
adhesive/sealant on it is a sealed package from MB, aftermarket may or 
may not.


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Re: [MBZ] M119 Oil Pan

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

One big difference between factory and repair/replacement is that the 
factory assembled the engine and accessories out of the car, then I 
think for the 123s and later, the engine/trans is put on the subframes 
on a sled, then the body is lowered onto the subframes/sled.   When the 
manuals are written, they start with a shiny clean new car.


As more and more subsystems are hung on vehicles, it gets more and more 
difficult to do repairs in the field.  The 85 calif 300Ds, being at the 
end of life for that design (being manufactured) are more difficult to 
work on than a 1977 300D.  Some of these real life circumstances make 
keeping a gasket in place during (often blind) assembly much more 
important than it was at the factory.


If it is possible to put in a gasket dry, then I do.   There have been 
times where  I  can't wait a week for the right gasket, so I use a 
little blue goo with or without the remains of the old gasket.  I've 
never had a problem with this in somewhere around 40 years of doing this.


If you are fortunate enough to be able to get parts the same day, that 
is great.  In the 80s, I could get almost anything within two days.  But 
in the past 25 years it has been a week to get parts unless Rusty paid 
the difference for two day fedex out of the goodness of his heart.  This 
fall it took over 2 weeks to get a stupid IP gasket from the CC for an 
OM616.  That is one that must have a new gasket and no Blue goo or other 
gunk.

YMMV


Rick Knoble via Mercedes 
January 29, 2018 at 8:44 AM

I prefer to glue the gasket to the removable part (easier to clean in 
the future)
with High Tack, and apply a thin layer of Hylomar on the block (or 
stationary) side
of the gasket. I suggested Permatex #2 because Hylomar is not readily 
available (FLAPS).


To each his own,
YMMV,

Rick


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Re: [MBZ] M119 Oil Pan

[Rick Knoble via Mercedes]

Max inquires:

>Can you or
>anyone point me to a reference or procedure?

Sure. Watch this video.



Long, boring (for most), and I don't particularly
care for the guy, but, it outlines my point.

Rick

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Re: [MBZ] M119 Oil Pan

[Rick Knoble via Mercedes]

Curley sez:

>Vac pump is a very thin gasket, large and easily torn.  When
>replacing the vac pump in a car a thin coat of blue goo helps immensely
>to hold the gasket in place while the pump is installed

I prefer to glue the gasket to the removable part (easier to clean in the 
future)
with High Tack, and apply a thin layer of Hylomar on the block (or stationary) 
side
of the gasket.  I suggested Permatex #2 because Hylomar is not readily 
available (FLAPS).

To each his own,
YMMV,

Rick


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Re: [MBZ] M119 Oil Pan

[Rick Knoble via Mercedes]

Rick
  Original Message
From: Dan--- via Mercedes
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2018 4:18 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Reply To: Mercedes Discussion List
Cc: d...@penoff.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] M119 Oil Pan


Absolutely. I don’t use silicone sealant on anything automotive. Ever.

I’ve got a tube of the sealant they recommend for the M103 timing cover seal. 
That should work, shouldn’t it?

Thanks!

Dan

> On Jan 28, 2018, at 10:55 PM, Rick Knoble via Mercedes 
> <mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> Dan asks:
>
>> Anyone here dropped an oil pan on an >M119?
>
> Not I.
>
> ‎>if I should expect to use any sort of >sealant.
>
> I use Hylomar or Permagasket #2 non-hardening sealant. IMHO never, never, 
> ever use silicone sealant on anything that doesn't absolutely require it per 
> the manual. When it breaks free and clogs an oil passage, it's new engine 
> time.
>
> Rick
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Re: [MBZ] M119 Oil Pan

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

If you are talking about household/construction silicone seal, yes, it 
is under the "improper use of"
I was talking about the blue, red or black silicone form a gasket 
specifically made for engine use.


Overuse also falls under "improper use of"

I have seen only 1 or 2 cases where a gasket had adhesive applied at the 
factory.   Vac pump is a very thin gasket, large and easily torn.  When 
replacing the vac pump in a car a thin coat of blue goo helps immensely 
to hold the gasket in place while the pump is installed.   Same with the 
transfer or lift pump on the IP, especially on an 85 cali car.  There is 
no room to work, you are working blind, so the blue goo is essential to 
hold the gasket in place for assembly.


I quit using #2 permatex because it is nearly impossible to remove.  The 
permatex blue and red products stick well, even where there is a coating 
of thin oil.  YMMV

Peter Frederick via Mercedes 
January 29, 2018 at 7:37 AM
The issue with silicone sealants is that they are often inappropriate 
for the job. Unless formulated for use in contact with oil, they often 
refuse to stick (ditto for use with coolant, as I found out in Canada 
getting a water pump to seal in the dead of winter).


Worst case you get what happened to the 75 300D my brother had -- some 
idiot glopped a huge amount of orange silicone sealant on the oil 
filter housing, with the result that a lump peeled off and plugged the 
oil supply to #2 main badly enough it ate the bearing.


The gasket is supplied with adhesive on it.

The service manual will specify the correct sealant and amount. 
Typically, if the gasket need sealing, it will be supplied with 
adhesive/sealant on it is a sealed package from MB, aftermarket may or 
may not.


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Re: [MBZ] M119 Oil Pan

[Peter Frederick via Mercedes]

The issue with silicone sealants is that they are often inappropriate for the 
job.  Unless formulated for use in contact with oil, they often refuse to stick 
(ditto for use with coolant, as I found out in Canada getting a water pump to 
seal in the dead of winter).

Worst case you get what happened to the 75 300D my brother had -- some idiot 
glopped a huge amount of orange silicone sealant on the oil filter housing, 
with the result that a lump peeled off and plugged the oil supply to #2 main 
badly enough it ate the bearing.

The gasket is supplied with adhesive on it.

The service manual will specify the correct sealant and amount.  Typically, if 
the gasket need sealing, it will be supplied with adhesive/sealant on it is a 
sealed package from MB, aftermarket may or may not.  
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Re: [MBZ] M119 Oil Pan

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

The problem is not the "proper use of", but "improper use of".  I have 
used the blue goo for close to 40 years and never had a problem.  I DID 
see a problem in the kleb SDL turbo, where someone had way over smeared 
the red stuff, nearly plugging the oil supply.   None of that broke 
loose or moved anywhere.  It did severely restrict the oil flow, which 
was already restricted by the hole in the gasket.


I have used it many times for things like vac pumps and water pumps.

I had a friend who had a sbc where part of the intake manifold gasket 
fell down when he reassembled it.  Rather than take off the manifold and 
put the gasket in place, he filled the void with blue goo.  It ran that 
way until he sold it.  I was amazed that it stuck, in that case.



Meade Dillon via Mercedes 
January 29, 2018 at 6:31 AM
Rick,

I think this is more Dr. Marshall Booth lore (not to say he was right or
wrong, I think he was right on this one) as I could never find that 
warning

against RTV or silicone anywhere in the 123 or 124 manuals. Can you or
anyone point me to a reference or procedure?

-
Max
Charleston SC


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Re: [MBZ] M119 Oil Pan

[Meade Dillon via Mercedes]

Rick,

I think this is more Dr. Marshall Booth lore (not to say he was right or
wrong, I think he was right on this one) as I could never find that warning
against RTV or silicone anywhere in the 123 or 124 manuals.  Can you or
anyone point me to a reference or procedure?

-
Max
Charleston SC

On Sun, Jan 28, 2018 at 10:55 PM, Rick Knoble via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> IMHO never, never, ever use silicone sealant on anything that doesn't
> absolutely require it per the manual. When it breaks free and clogs an oil
> passage, it's new engine time.
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] M119 Oil Pan

[Dan--- via Mercedes]

Absolutely. I don’t use silicone sealant on anything automotive. Ever.

I’ve got a tube of the sealant they recommend for the M103 timing cover seal. 
That should work, shouldn’t it?

Thanks!

Dan

> On Jan 28, 2018, at 10:55 PM, Rick Knoble via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Dan asks:
> 
>> Anyone here dropped an oil pan on an >M119?
> 
> Not I.
> 
> ‎>if I should expect to use any sort of >sealant.
> 
> I use Hylomar or Permagasket #2 non-hardening sealant. IMHO never, never, 
> ever use silicone sealant on anything that doesn't absolutely require it per 
> the manual. When it breaks free and clogs an oil passage, it's new engine 
> time.
> 
> Rick
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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> 


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Re: [MBZ] M119 Oil Pan

[Rick Knoble via Mercedes]

Dan asks:

>Anyone here dropped an oil pan on an >M119?

Not I.

‎>if I should expect to use any sort of >sealant.

I use Hylomar or Permagasket #2 non-hardening sealant. IMHO never, never, ever 
use silicone sealant on anything that doesn't absolutely require it per the 
manual. When it breaks free and clogs an oil passage, it's new engine time.

Rick
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Re: [MBZ] M119 Oil Pan

[M. Mitchell Marmel via Mercedes]

My mechanic changed the lower pan seal on my E420.  No big hassle, from
what he said.  He did use sealant as a JIC thing.

On Sun, Jan 28, 2018 at 7:25 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Anyone here dropped an oil pan on an M119?  Just the lower cover, not the
> whole pan.
>
> Wife’s R129 has a stuck low oil level sender that I had to disconnect
> today so it didn’t freak her out constantly.  While this is really a
> froo-froo sort of thing since it’s her car I feel better getting it
> replaced.
>
> The lower cover on the pan has to come off so the oil level sender can
> come out.  I’m just wondering how bad the gaskets are on these and if I
> should expect to use any sort of sealant.
>
> -D
>
>
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>
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