Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss
Ahoy there, Jason, Shawn and list. Intriguing situation, Jason. Thanks for sharing. And like you Shawn, I'm glad I got my beautiful little slice from Joe. I didn't see all that much drama in it, though. He put in a lot of work, and found enough to be able to both keep some and sell enough to feed his family. That's just plain cool, in my book. Thanks Joe! Linton - Original Message - From: Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com To: jasonu...@gmail.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2011 8:38 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss Jason and Listers, This is a very interesting post in the since I have to say something doesn't add up. One an anonymous finder contacts Carl and has him send cash to a PO box. Red flag. Two the phone number is disconnected. Three the transaction was done in cash. I have to say with those three elements this would have to be a scam, someone got had. If this was a legit sale wouldn't it have been done in the correct ways via pay pal not some undercover 007 style, sending cash in the mail to a PO BOX? As for testing goes, cant Carl Agee do a terrestrial age analysis and also have a cre done which can prove or disprove this theory that someone is suggesting that Mifflin has two litholgies, which I have to say isnt the case and that these stones are not related to Mifflin in anyway from the evidence presented by Jason. Now the question is who was the scammer. I have to assume that one this scammer knew what they were doing and somehow was or is connected to the meteorite collecting world or they are really smart and picked up how to scam meteorite hunter 101. First of all they knew of Carl, two they knew of the fall, three, they knew of what a freshly fallen meteorite looks like and four the meteorite in question is a real meteorite but not from the same fall. I think the scammer is one of us or is connected to one of us just because of the circumstances of the event and that the meteorite is a real meteorite and has fusion crust. If it was a non meteoritest, I think it would have been a stone, but this was not the case it was a real meteorite in the mists of being a fake Mifflin. This is to good to be done by some non meteorite collector but again people are getting smarter these days to make some cash. But this means that this scammer would have to buy a real meteorite to turn around to sell as a fake recent meteorite fall. All I can say is if I came into this situation I would have thought the sale would have been a scam right from the start with me sending money to a PO box. Also I am glad I didn't buy this stuff I was able to buy some from Joe Kerchner which that had some drama in its self as well. My 2 cents Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBaystore http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss jason utas jasonutas at gmail.com Sat May 7 21:12:16 EDT 2011 Previous message: [meteorite-list] Where is everyone? Facebook? Next message: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] Hello All, My story begins in the summer of last year. I saw some strange pieces of 'Mifflin' on ebay that I thought looked funny. People were talking about the meteorite having two lithologies, but...the slices and individuals that I saw looked 'off.' A select few looked like H-chondrites, and they had the telltale signs of wear that freshly-imported Moroccan falls bear: worn edges, exposed metal flakes on protruding corners (where the fusion crust had been worn off due to improper packing), etc. At the time, I did nothing but send a private email to Anne Black notifying her of my suspicions. I spoke with some other prominent list-members addressing it, and they all agreed that the material looked funny, but that nothing could be done about it given the required burden of proof. So, I sat on my hands for several months. Just over a month ago, I saw a piece of the funny-looking 'Mifflin' on ebay. It looked similar to some pieces that I remembered seeing on ebay months before, and, being an end-cut, I was able to see both the stone's funny-looking inside -- and the apparent metal grains on the stone's exterior. I used the 'buy-it-now' option to purchase the end-cut, and it arrived while Peter and I were in Morocco. When we returned, I promptly shipped the end-cut off to Tony Irving of the University of Washington; he agreed to analyze the stone posthaste. The results came back, but Tony wanted to wait until the probe was recallibrated so that he could run it again to be sure. Lo and behold, he did confirm that my end-cut was an equilibrated H-chondrite, with an olivine Fa of 18.6. For comparison, Chergach and Bassikounou both have Fa contents of 18.4 and 18.6, respectively. University of Madison, Wisconsin performed most of the work on the Mifflin fall.
Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss
Ok. I cant keep this quite anymore... Screw the lies and secrets. I think the truth should be out there. About Joes awesome stone... He told me personally and we also talked over email about it... he found it on the same persons property that someone else had already stolen a stone from. Yes, I know this because he told me directly. No second hand BS. He lied to everyone and even had a totally BS story published about his finding it under a bridge. So please, before anyone else goes to say how Joe fed his family, took a trip to disney world and what not, he lied about finding it and thats the true story behind the Kerchner Stone Yes, his family ate, but what about the person whos land it fell on? Ask her how her family trip to disney went... Joe, sorry man, but it had to come out at some time. I took public one person who stole material from Mifflin, anyone else care to out the other? I dont know the whole story, so I will let others tell that tale. I know many on this list know of Joes lie and also the other person... but I honestly doubt ANYONE will come forward on this. Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites --- On Sun, 5/8/11, Linton Rohr linton...@earthlink.net wrote: From: Linton Rohr linton...@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss To: Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com, jasonu...@gmail.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Sunday, May 8, 2011, 3:29 AM Ahoy there, Jason, Shawn and list. Intriguing situation, Jason. Thanks for sharing. And like you Shawn, I'm glad I got my beautiful little slice from Joe. I didn't see all that much drama in it, though. He put in a lot of work, and found enough to be able to both keep some and sell enough to feed his family. That's just plain cool, in my book. Thanks Joe! Linton - Original Message - From: Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com To: jasonu...@gmail.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2011 8:38 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss Jason and Listers, This is a very interesting post in the since I have to say something doesn't add up. One an anonymous finder contacts Carl and has him send cash to a PO box. Red flag. Two the phone number is disconnected. Three the transaction was done in cash. I have to say with those three elements this would have to be a scam, someone got had. If this was a legit sale wouldn't it have been done in the correct ways via pay pal not some undercover 007 style, sending cash in the mail to a PO BOX? As for testing goes, cant Carl Agee do a terrestrial age analysis and also have a cre done which can prove or disprove this theory that someone is suggesting that Mifflin has two litholgies, which I have to say isnt the case and that these stones are not related to Mifflin in anyway from the evidence presented by Jason. Now the question is who was the scammer. I have to assume that one this scammer knew what they were doing and somehow was or is connected to the meteorite collecting world or they are really smart and picked up how to scam meteorite hunter 101. First of all they knew of Carl, two they knew of the fall, three, they knew of what a freshly fallen meteorite looks like and four the meteorite in question is a real meteorite but not from the same fall. I think the scammer is one of us or is connected to one of us just because of the circumstances of the event and that the meteorite is a real meteorite and has fusion crust. If it was a non meteoritest, I think it would have been a stone, but this was not the case it was a real meteorite in the mists of being a fake Mifflin. This is to good to be done by some non meteorite collector but again people are getting smarter these days to make some cash. But this means that this scammer would have to buy a real meteorite to turn around to sell as a fake recent meteorite fall. All I can say is if I came into this situation I would have thought the sale would have been a scam right from the start with me sending money to a PO box. Also I am glad I didn't buy this stuff I was able to buy some from Joe Kerchner which that had some drama in its self as well. My 2 cents Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBaystore http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss jason utas jasonutas at gmail.com Sat May 7 21:12:16 EDT 2011 Previous message: [meteorite-list] Where is everyone? Facebook? Next message: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] Hello All, My story begins in the summer of last year. I saw some strange pieces of 'Mifflin' on ebay that I thought looked funny. People were talking
Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss
Greg, Thank you for your honesty. Why did it take so long for this to come to light?? thanx, Steve Steve Witt IMCA #9020 http://imca.cc/ --- On Sun, 5/8/11, Greg Catterton star_wars_collec...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Greg Catterton star_wars_collec...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss To: Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com, jasonu...@gmail.com, Linton Rohr linton...@earthlink.net Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Sunday, May 8, 2011, 3:07 AM Ok. I cant keep this quite anymore... Screw the lies and secrets. I think the truth should be out there. About Joes awesome stone... He told me personally and we also talked over email about it... he found it on the same persons property that someone else had already stolen a stone from. Yes, I know this because he told me directly. No second hand BS. He lied to everyone and even had a totally BS story published about his finding it under a bridge. So please, before anyone else goes to say how Joe fed his family, took a trip to disney world and what not, he lied about finding it and thats the true story behind the Kerchner Stone Yes, his family ate, but what about the person whos land it fell on? Ask her how her family trip to disney went... Joe, sorry man, but it had to come out at some time. I took public one person who stole material from Mifflin, anyone else care to out the other? I dont know the whole story, so I will let others tell that tale. I know many on this list know of Joes lie and also the other person... but I honestly doubt ANYONE will come forward on this. Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites --- On Sun, 5/8/11, Linton Rohr linton...@earthlink.net wrote: From: Linton Rohr linton...@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss To: Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com, jasonu...@gmail.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Sunday, May 8, 2011, 3:29 AM Ahoy there, Jason, Shawn and list. Intriguing situation, Jason. Thanks for sharing. And like you Shawn, I'm glad I got my beautiful little slice from Joe. I didn't see all that much drama in it, though. He put in a lot of work, and found enough to be able to both keep some and sell enough to feed his family. That's just plain cool, in my book. Thanks Joe! Linton - Original Message - From: Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com To: jasonu...@gmail.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2011 8:38 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss Jason and Listers, This is a very interesting post in the since I have to say something doesn't add up. One an anonymous finder contacts Carl and has him send cash to a PO box. Red flag. Two the phone number is disconnected. Three the transaction was done in cash. I have to say with those three elements this would have to be a scam, someone got had. If this was a legit sale wouldn't it have been done in the correct ways via pay pal not some undercover 007 style, sending cash in the mail to a PO BOX? As for testing goes, cant Carl Agee do a terrestrial age analysis and also have a cre done which can prove or disprove this theory that someone is suggesting that Mifflin has two litholgies, which I have to say isnt the case and that these stones are not related to Mifflin in anyway from the evidence presented by Jason. Now the question is who was the scammer. I have to assume that one this scammer knew what they were doing and somehow was or is connected to the meteorite collecting world or they are really smart and picked up how to scam meteorite hunter 101. First of all they knew of Carl, two they knew of the fall, three, they knew of what a freshly fallen meteorite looks like and four the meteorite in question is a real meteorite but not from the same fall. I think the scammer is one of us or is connected to one of us just because of the circumstances of the event and that the meteorite is a real meteorite and has fusion crust. If it was a non meteoritest, I think it would have been a stone, but this was not the case it was a real meteorite in the mists of being a fake Mifflin. This is to good to be done by some non meteorite collector but again people are getting smarter these days to make some cash. But this means that this scammer would have to buy a real meteorite to turn around to sell as a fake recent meteorite fall. All I can say is if I came into this situation I would have thought the sale would have been a scam right from the start with me sending money to a PO box. Also I am glad I didn't buy this stuff I was able to buy some from Joe Kerchner which that had some drama in its self as well.
Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss
Greg, Shawn, Dirk, Jason and List, Since seeking expertise in hunting and purchasing meteorites from persons I met through this List, I have been lied to, and cheated, more than a few times. I must be fair and mention I've also made some really great friendships. Most of my bad experiences with Listees has been caused by my own naiveté' and an innate character fault I have.and that is I want to believe everything that is said to me. I bought a few grams of prepared Mifflin from Joe not knowing it was stolen. This latest scandal is heart breaking. I don't want anything to do with stolen meteorites. Greg, I would appreciate your telling me which property owner was cheated as I wish to return to the rightful owner either the meteorite, or a sum of money equal to it's value. Greg, I would also ask that you tell me, OL if you wish, whom you believe was the other thief. I want to correct any dealings I may have had with him too. Count Deiro IMCA 3536 -Original Message- From: Greg Catterton star_wars_collec...@yahoo.com Sent: May 8, 2011 1:07 AM To: Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com, jasonu...@gmail.com, Linton Rohr linton...@earthlink.net Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss Ok. I cant keep this quite anymore... Screw the lies and secrets. I think the truth should be out there. About Joes awesome stone... He told me personally and we also talked over email about it... he found it on the same persons property that someone else had already stolen a stone from. Yes, I know this because he told me directly. No second hand BS. He lied to everyone and even had a totally BS story published about his finding it under a bridge. So please, before anyone else goes to say how Joe fed his family, took a trip to disney world and what not, he lied about finding it and thats the true story behind the Kerchner Stone Yes, his family ate, but what about the person whos land it fell on? Ask her how her family trip to disney went... Joe, sorry man, but it had to come out at some time. I took public one person who stole material from Mifflin, anyone else care to out the other? I dont know the whole story, so I will let others tell that tale. I know many on this list know of Joes lie and also the other person... but I honestly doubt ANYONE will come forward on this. Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites --- On Sun, 5/8/11, Linton Rohr linton...@earthlink.net wrote: From: Linton Rohr linton...@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss To: Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com, jasonu...@gmail.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Sunday, May 8, 2011, 3:29 AM Ahoy there, Jason, Shawn and list. Intriguing situation, Jason. Thanks for sharing. And like you Shawn, I'm glad I got my beautiful little slice from Joe. I didn't see all that much drama in it, though. He put in a lot of work, and found enough to be able to both keep some and sell enough to feed his family. That's just plain cool, in my book. Thanks Joe! Linton - Original Message - From: Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com To: jasonu...@gmail.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2011 8:38 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss Jason and Listers, This is a very interesting post in the since I have to say something doesn't add up. One an anonymous finder contacts Carl and has him send cash to a PO box. Red flag. Two the phone number is disconnected. Three the transaction was done in cash. I have to say with those three elements this would have to be a scam, someone got had. If this was a legit sale wouldn't it have been done in the correct ways via pay pal not some undercover 007 style, sending cash in the mail to a PO BOX? As for testing goes, cant Carl Agee do a terrestrial age analysis and also have a cre done which can prove or disprove this theory that someone is suggesting that Mifflin has two litholgies, which I have to say isnt the case and that these stones are not related to Mifflin in anyway from the evidence presented by Jason. Now the question is who was the scammer. I have to assume that one this scammer knew what they were doing and somehow was or is connected to the meteorite collecting world or they are really smart and picked up how to scam meteorite hunter 101. First of all they knew of Carl, two they knew of the fall, three, they knew of what a freshly fallen meteorite looks like and four the meteorite in question is a real meteorite but not from the same fall. I think the scammer is one of us or is connected to one of us just because of the circumstances of the event and that the meteorite is a real meteorite and has fusion crust. If it was a non meteoritest, I think it
Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss
Greetings, With Jason running down all the details of these questionable specimens, this is one that was found out. Now how many have not been found out??? --AL Mitterling - Original Message - From: Linton Rohr linton...@earthlink.net To: Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com; jasonu...@gmail.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2011 3:29 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss Ahoy there, Jason, Shawn and list. Intriguing situation, Jason. Thanks for sharing. And like you Shawn, I'm glad I got my beautiful little slice from Joe. I didn't see all that much drama in it, though. He put in a lot of work, and found enough to be able to both keep some and sell enough to feed his family. That's just plain cool, in my book. Thanks Joe! Linton - Original Message - From: Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com To: jasonu...@gmail.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2011 8:38 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss Jason and Listers, This is a very interesting post in the since I have to say something doesn't add up. One an anonymous finder contacts Carl and has him send cash to a PO box. Red flag. Two the phone number is disconnected. Three the transaction was done in cash. I have to say with those three elements this would have to be a scam, someone got had. If this was a legit sale wouldn't it have been done in the correct ways via pay pal not some undercover 007 style, sending cash in the mail to a PO BOX? As for testing goes, cant Carl Agee do a terrestrial age analysis and also have a cre done which can prove or disprove this theory that someone is suggesting that Mifflin has two litholgies, which I have to say isnt the case and that these stones are not related to Mifflin in anyway from the evidence presented by Jason. Now the question is who was the scammer. I have to assume that one this scammer knew what they were doing and somehow was or is connected to the meteorite collecting world or they are really smart and picked up how to scam meteorite hunter 101. First of all they knew of Carl, two they knew of the fall, three, they knew of what a freshly fallen meteorite looks like and four the meteorite in question is a real meteorite but not from the same fall. I think the scammer is one of us or is connected to one of us just because of the circumstances of the event and that the meteorite is a real meteorite and has fusion crust. If it was a non meteoritest, I think it would have been a stone, but this was not the case it was a real meteorite in the mists of being a fake Mifflin. This is to good to be done by some non meteorite collector but again people are getting smarter these days to make some cash. But this means that this scammer would have to buy a real meteorite to turn around to sell as a fake recent meteorite fall. All I can say is if I came into this situation I would have thought the sale would have been a scam right from the start with me sending money to a PO box. Also I am glad I didn't buy this stuff I was able to buy some from Joe Kerchner which that had some drama in its self as well. My 2 cents Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBaystore http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss jason utas jasonutas at gmail.com Sat May 7 21:12:16 EDT 2011 Previous message: [meteorite-list] Where is everyone? Facebook? Next message: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] Hello All, My story begins in the summer of last year. I saw some strange pieces of 'Mifflin' on ebay that I thought looked funny. People were talking about the meteorite having two lithologies, but...the slices and individuals that I saw looked 'off.' A select few looked like H-chondrites, and they had the telltale signs of wear that freshly-imported Moroccan falls bear: worn edges, exposed metal flakes on protruding corners (where the fusion crust had been worn off due to improper packing), etc. At the time, I did nothing but send a private email to Anne Black notifying her of my suspicions. I spoke with some other prominent list-members addressing it, and they all agreed that the material looked funny, but that nothing could be done about it given the required burden of proof. So, I sat on my hands for several months. Just over a month ago, I saw a piece of the funny-looking 'Mifflin' on ebay. It looked similar to some pieces that I remembered seeing on ebay months before, and, being an end-cut, I was able to see both the stone's funny-looking inside -- and the apparent metal grains on the stone's exterior. I used the 'buy-it-now' option to purchase the end-cut, and it arrived while Peter and I were in Morocco. When we returned, I promptly shipped the end-cut off to Tony Irving of the University of Washington; he agreed to analyze
[meteorite-list] Mifflin snakes in the grass
glad I have none of it and never will karma is a firm mistress-good luck to the snakes and fair play to Guido for wanting to see the REAL owner compensated the DO not buy from list just got a bit bigger Jim Brady __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss
What greg? What are you on? I did find. It under the bridge. Ask my kids. I NEVER told you that. I told you that marvin found one on somebodys land n didnt pay. Not in the same place i found mine. Where did you hear this bs? It sure wan NOT from me. So before you post crap like this, get your story right and stop lying you are strait lying. I never liked you. Why would i tell you that and nonody else? Get a life Greg. we never even got along. Why would I tell you something like that, but not tell anyone I do get along with or even talk to. We talked on the phone once, it was about some mifflin stones you told me that you had, which was a lie. I DID find it just where and how I said I found it. Get your story strait. You could ruin somebodys reputation like that. WTF get a life greg. Best, Joe kerchner Best Wishes, Joe Kerchner http://illinoismeteorites.com http://skyrockcafe.com --- On Sun, 5/8/11, Greg Catterton star_wars_collec...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Greg Catterton star_wars_collec...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss To: Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com, jasonu...@gmail.com, Linton Rohr linton...@earthlink.net Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Sunday, May 8, 2011, 3:07 AM Ok. I cant keep this quite anymore... Screw the lies and secrets. I think the truth should be out there. About Joes awesome stone... He told me personally and we also talked over email about it... he found it on the same persons property that someone else had already stolen a stone from. Yes, I know this because he told me directly. No second hand BS. He lied to everyone and even had a totally BS story published about his finding it under a bridge. So please, before anyone else goes to say how Joe fed his family, took a trip to disney world and what not, he lied about finding it and thats the true story behind the Kerchner Stone Yes, his family ate, but what about the person whos land it fell on? Ask her how her family trip to disney went... Joe, sorry man, but it had to come out at some time. I took public one person who stole material from Mifflin, anyone else care to out the other? I dont know the whole story, so I will let others tell that tale. I know many on this list know of Joes lie and also the other person... but I honestly doubt ANYONE will come forward on this. Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites --- On Sun, 5/8/11, Linton Rohr linton...@earthlink.net wrote: From: Linton Rohr linton...@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss To: Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com, jasonu...@gmail.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Sunday, May 8, 2011, 3:29 AM Ahoy there, Jason, Shawn and list. Intriguing situation, Jason. Thanks for sharing. And like you Shawn, I'm glad I got my beautiful little slice from Joe. I didn't see all that much drama in it, though. He put in a lot of work, and found enough to be able to both keep some and sell enough to feed his family. That's just plain cool, in my book. Thanks Joe! Linton - Original Message - From: Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com To: jasonu...@gmail.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2011 8:38 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss Jason and Listers, This is a very interesting post in the since I have to say something doesn't add up. One an anonymous finder contacts Carl and has him send cash to a PO box. Red flag. Two the phone number is disconnected. Three the transaction was done in cash. I have to say with those three elements this would have to be a scam, someone got had. If this was a legit sale wouldn't it have been done in the correct ways via pay pal not some undercover 007 style, sending cash in the mail to a PO BOX? As for testing goes, cant Carl Agee do a terrestrial age analysis and also have a cre done which can prove or disprove this theory that someone is suggesting that Mifflin has two litholgies, which I have to say isnt the case and that these stones are not related to Mifflin in anyway from the evidence presented by Jason. Now the question is who was the scammer. I have to assume that one this scammer knew what they were doing and somehow was or is connected to the meteorite collecting world or they are really smart and picked up how to scam meteorite hunter 101. First of all they knew of Carl, two they knew of the fall, three, they knew of what a freshly fallen meteorite looks like and four the meteorite in question is a real meteorite but not from the same fall. I think the scammer is one of us or is connected to one of us just because of the circumstances of the event and that the meteorite is a
Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss
IT WAS NOT STOLEN. GREG IS FULL OF IT Best Wishes, Joe Kerchner http://illinoismeteorites.com http://skyrockcafe.com --- On Sun, 5/8/11, Count Deiro countde...@earthlink.net wrote: From: Count Deiro countde...@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss To: Greg Catterton star_wars_collec...@yahoo.com, Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com, jasonu...@gmail.com, Linton Rohr linton...@earthlink.net Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Sunday, May 8, 2011, 6:37 AM Greg, Shawn, Dirk, Jason and List, Since seeking expertise in hunting and purchasing meteorites from persons I met through this List, I have been lied to, and cheated, more than a few times. I must be fair and mention I've also made some really great friendships. Most of my bad experiences with Listees has been caused by my own naiveté' and an innate character fault I have.and that is I want to believe everything that is said to me. I bought a few grams of prepared Mifflin from Joe not knowing it was stolen. This latest scandal is heart breaking. I don't want anything to do with stolen meteorites. Greg, I would appreciate your telling me which property owner was cheated as I wish to return to the rightful owner either the meteorite, or a sum of money equal to it's value. Greg, I would also ask that you tell me, OL if you wish, whom you believe was the other thief. I want to correct any dealings I may have had with him too. Count Deiro IMCA 3536 -Original Message- From: Greg Catterton star_wars_collec...@yahoo.com Sent: May 8, 2011 1:07 AM To: Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com, jasonu...@gmail.com, Linton Rohr linton...@earthlink.net Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss Ok. I cant keep this quite anymore... Screw the lies and secrets. I think the truth should be out there. About Joes awesome stone... He told me personally and we also talked over email about it... he found it on the same persons property that someone else had already stolen a stone from. Yes, I know this because he told me directly. No second hand BS. He lied to everyone and even had a totally BS story published about his finding it under a bridge. So please, before anyone else goes to say how Joe fed his family, took a trip to disney world and what not, he lied about finding it and thats the true story behind the Kerchner Stone Yes, his family ate, but what about the person whos land it fell on? Ask her how her family trip to disney went... Joe, sorry man, but it had to come out at some time. I took public one person who stole material from Mifflin, anyone else care to out the other? I dont know the whole story, so I will let others tell that tale. I know many on this list know of Joes lie and also the other person... but I honestly doubt ANYONE will come forward on this. Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites --- On Sun, 5/8/11, Linton Rohr linton...@earthlink.net wrote: From: Linton Rohr linton...@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss To: Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com, jasonu...@gmail.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Sunday, May 8, 2011, 3:29 AM Ahoy there, Jason, Shawn and list. Intriguing situation, Jason. Thanks for sharing. And like you Shawn, I'm glad I got my beautiful little slice from Joe. I didn't see all that much drama in it, though. He put in a lot of work, and found enough to be able to both keep some and sell enough to feed his family. That's just plain cool, in my book. Thanks Joe! Linton - Original Message - From: Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com To: jasonu...@gmail.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2011 8:38 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss Jason and Listers, This is a very interesting post in the since I have to say something doesn't add up. One an anonymous finder contacts Carl and has him send cash to a PO box. Red flag. Two the phone number is disconnected. Three the transaction was done in cash. I have to say with those three elements this would have to be a scam, someone got had. If this was a legit sale wouldn't it have been done in the correct ways via pay pal not some undercover 007 style, sending cash in the mail to a PO BOX? As for testing goes, cant Carl Agee do a terrestrial age analysis and also have a cre done which can prove or disprove this theory that someone is suggesting that Mifflin has two litholgies, which I have to say isnt the case and that these stones are not related to Mifflin in anyway from the evidence presented by Jason. Now the question is who was the
Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss
I think greg should get booted or at least suspended from here for spreading made up BS on here that could ruin my reputation. This is NOT RIGHT. I am so very very POed right now. I cant even believe Im reading this crap. Why did you make this up, THEN POST IT. Cmon grag. I know we never got along, but this? Best Wishes, Joe Kerchner http://illinoismeteorites.com http://skyrockcafe.com --- On Sun, 5/8/11, Count Deiro countde...@earthlink.net wrote: From: Count Deiro countde...@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss To: Greg Catterton star_wars_collec...@yahoo.com, Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com, jasonu...@gmail.com, Linton Rohr linton...@earthlink.net Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Sunday, May 8, 2011, 6:37 AM Greg, Shawn, Dirk, Jason and List, Since seeking expertise in hunting and purchasing meteorites from persons I met through this List, I have been lied to, and cheated, more than a few times. I must be fair and mention I've also made some really great friendships. Most of my bad experiences with Listees has been caused by my own naiveté' and an innate character fault I have.and that is I want to believe everything that is said to me. I bought a few grams of prepared Mifflin from Joe not knowing it was stolen. This latest scandal is heart breaking. I don't want anything to do with stolen meteorites. Greg, I would appreciate your telling me which property owner was cheated as I wish to return to the rightful owner either the meteorite, or a sum of money equal to it's value. Greg, I would also ask that you tell me, OL if you wish, whom you believe was the other thief. I want to correct any dealings I may have had with him too. Count Deiro IMCA 3536 -Original Message- From: Greg Catterton star_wars_collec...@yahoo.com Sent: May 8, 2011 1:07 AM To: Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com, jasonu...@gmail.com, Linton Rohr linton...@earthlink.net Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss Ok. I cant keep this quite anymore... Screw the lies and secrets. I think the truth should be out there. About Joes awesome stone... He told me personally and we also talked over email about it... he found it on the same persons property that someone else had already stolen a stone from. Yes, I know this because he told me directly. No second hand BS. He lied to everyone and even had a totally BS story published about his finding it under a bridge. So please, before anyone else goes to say how Joe fed his family, took a trip to disney world and what not, he lied about finding it and thats the true story behind the Kerchner Stone Yes, his family ate, but what about the person whos land it fell on? Ask her how her family trip to disney went... Joe, sorry man, but it had to come out at some time. I took public one person who stole material from Mifflin, anyone else care to out the other? I dont know the whole story, so I will let others tell that tale. I know many on this list know of Joes lie and also the other person... but I honestly doubt ANYONE will come forward on this. Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites --- On Sun, 5/8/11, Linton Rohr linton...@earthlink.net wrote: From: Linton Rohr linton...@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss To: Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com, jasonu...@gmail.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Sunday, May 8, 2011, 3:29 AM Ahoy there, Jason, Shawn and list. Intriguing situation, Jason. Thanks for sharing. And like you Shawn, I'm glad I got my beautiful little slice from Joe. I didn't see all that much drama in it, though. He put in a lot of work, and found enough to be able to both keep some and sell enough to feed his family. That's just plain cool, in my book. Thanks Joe! Linton - Original Message - From: Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com To: jasonu...@gmail.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2011 8:38 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss Jason and Listers, This is a very interesting post in the since I have to say something doesn't add up. One an anonymous finder contacts Carl and has him send cash to a PO box. Red flag. Two the phone number is disconnected. Three the transaction was done in cash. I have to say with those three elements this would have to be a scam, someone got had. If this was a legit sale wouldn't it have been done in the correct ways via pay pal not some undercover 007 style, sending cash in the mail to a PO BOX? As for testing goes, cant Carl Agee do a terrestrial age analysis and also have a cre done which can prove or disprove
Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss
Pics of the find in situ with gps coords should settle this. On May 8, 2011, at 10:11 AM, Joe Kerchner skyrockmeteori...@yahoo.com wrote: I think greg should get booted or at least suspended from here for spreading made up BS on here that could ruin my reputation. This is NOT RIGHT. I am so very very POed right now. I cant even believe Im reading this crap. Why did you make this up, THEN POST IT. Cmon grag. I know we never got along, but this? Best Wishes, Joe Kerchner http://illinoismeteorites.com http://skyrockcafe.com --- On Sun, 5/8/11, Count Deiro countde...@earthlink.net wrote: From: Count Deiro countde...@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss To: Greg Catterton star_wars_collec...@yahoo.com, Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com, jasonu...@gmail.com, Linton Rohr linton...@earthlink.net Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Sunday, May 8, 2011, 6:37 AM Greg, Shawn, Dirk, Jason and List, Since seeking expertise in hunting and purchasing meteorites from persons I met through this List, I have been lied to, and cheated, more than a few times. I must be fair and mention I've also made some really great friendships. Most of my bad experiences with Listees has been caused by my own naiveté' and an innate character fault I have.and that is I want to believe everything that is said to me. I bought a few grams of prepared Mifflin from Joe not knowing it was stolen. This latest scandal is heart breaking. I don't want anything to do with stolen meteorites. Greg, I would appreciate your telling me which property owner was cheated as I wish to return to the rightful owner either the meteorite, or a sum of money equal to it's value. Greg, I would also ask that you tell me, OL if you wish, whom you believe was the other thief. I want to correct any dealings I may have had with him too. Count Deiro IMCA 3536 -Original Message- From: Greg Catterton star_wars_collec...@yahoo.com Sent: May 8, 2011 1:07 AM To: Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com, jasonu...@gmail.com, Linton Rohr linton...@earthlink.net Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss Ok. I cant keep this quite anymore... Screw the lies and secrets. I think the truth should be out there. About Joes awesome stone... He told me personally and we also talked over email about it... he found it on the same persons property that someone else had already stolen a stone from. Yes, I know this because he told me directly. No second hand BS. He lied to everyone and even had a totally BS story published about his finding it under a bridge. So please, before anyone else goes to say how Joe fed his family, took a trip to disney world and what not, he lied about finding it and thats the true story behind the Kerchner Stone Yes, his family ate, but what about the person whos land it fell on? Ask her how her family trip to disney went... Joe, sorry man, but it had to come out at some time. I took public one person who stole material from Mifflin, anyone else care to out the other? I dont know the whole story, so I will let others tell that tale. I know many on this list know of Joes lie and also the other person... but I honestly doubt ANYONE will come forward on this. Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites --- On Sun, 5/8/11, Linton Rohr linton...@earthlink.net wrote: From: Linton Rohr linton...@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss To: Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com, jasonu...@gmail.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Sunday, May 8, 2011, 3:29 AM Ahoy there, Jason, Shawn and list. Intriguing situation, Jason. Thanks for sharing. And like you Shawn, I'm glad I got my beautiful little slice from Joe. I didn't see all that much drama in it, though. He put in a lot of work, and found enough to be able to both keep some and sell enough to feed his family. That's just plain cool, in my book. Thanks Joe! Linton - Original Message - From: Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com To: jasonu...@gmail.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2011 8:38 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss Jason and Listers, This is a very interesting post in the since I have to say something doesn't add up. One an anonymous finder contacts Carl and has him send cash to a PO box. Red flag. Two the phone number is disconnected. Three the transaction was done in cash. I have to say with those three elements this would have to be a scam, someone got had. If this was a legit sale wouldn't it have been done in the correct ways via pay pal not some undercover 007 style, sending cash in the mail to a PO BOX? As
[meteorite-list] AD: Ausson meteorite auction ending today
Hi List. I have several Auctions ending on eBay today and one of them is a decent size piece of the Hammer Stone from France Ausson. http://shop.ebay.com/emflocater/m.html?_trksid=p4340.l2562 Thank you. Sincerely Don Merchant Founder-Cosmic Treasures Celestial Wonders http://www.ctreasurescwonders.com/index.html IMCA #0960 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] whole stone concerns
Hello List. This latest Mifflin business has me very disturbed, and brings up a question I've been meaning to ask you all for a while now: How can I be sure that any whole stone be properly labeled as classified? Of course there are obvious stones like Camel Donga, (all those that stand alone with external character)...but up until now, only my trust in reputations has allowed me to be comfortable, along with provenance and labels, chain of custody, etc. Yet, now I'll hesitate to acquire whole stones (one of my favorites is to collect wholes and stand-up-by-themselves specimens)...without knowing the back-story comes from someone with honor. I will, however, not hesitate to buy specimens from those of you whole continue to demonstrate honor. Reputations are as important as thorough classifications. This recent incident is exactly what we don't need. If there is honor anywhere, it has been demonstrated by the refundings/returns of those unfortunate to have been affected. Congrats to those of you who did. Only finding the head of the snake will put this all to rest. Or, we all carry microprobes in our backpacks. Richard Montgomery __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss
When purchasing artifacts, I learned that the more lengthy a seller's explanation is, the more likely you are dealing with a fraudster. When the story is long-winded as is the case with this bogus Mifflin, I immediately become cautious. It is rare for dealers of genuine artifacts to go into more detail than is necessary. The truth is much easier to tell than a lie and doesn't require senseless backup explanations. In this day and age, why would anybody deal with somebody they have never met and send cash to a P.O. Box without first receiving the product? Nobody likes to cut completely crusted stones so it is difficult to asses what lays under a fresh fusion crust. A magnet might help a little bit. It really is a matter of trust and it seems this trust is being violated frequently these days when it comes to falls. It is not fair to the people in the field spending hundreds of hours finding legitimate stones to have some con artist purchase pieces for 1/100th the cost and then passing them off as a different fall. The meteorite fall market is so thin, one counterfeit can do widespread damage. Now some collectors will question the authenticity of their Mifflin pieces and other recent falls unless they know the exact circumstances of where the meteorite was found and by whom. It is too bad a few Filthy, Greedy, Con-Artists have infiltrated this semi-exclusive market which is based on trust! The buck stops with the person that initially brought these phoneys to market. Time to take out the trash! Adam __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] New mineral in NWA 1934
http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/20110506/sc_livescience/45billionyearoldmeteoriteyieldsnewmineral Last year I sold some kilos of this meteorite to various scientists and institutions to study, as they suspected a new mineral in the CAI inclusions. It seems that has come to pass! NWA 1934 was one of mine from Morocco, many years ago. I still have some at home, should any of you want to test your luck in finding some more of this new mineral. I am traveling far from home right now though. I will see many of you in Ensisheim and St Marie in France next month. Michael Farmer __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] QUESTION- Al Mahbas
I submitted the Al Mahbas pallasite to Ted Bunch many years ago, like so many other meteorites that I submitted type specimens for, it vanished. I went to the strewn field and found pieces myself, there is a story about it on my website. It came out later under several different nwa numbers. should be called al mahbas as I confirmed the location by finding pieces myself before being chased away by Algerian border guards. Sadly a nice and very rare pallasite was dumped into the nwa batch names. Michael Farmr Michael Farmer Sent from my iPad On May 7, 2011, at 7:11 AM, John Lutzon j...@hc.fdn.com wrote: Hello All, I recently posted pics (EoM) of a slice of Al Mahbas and listed it as NWA 2683. As i noticed that no one else has done the same;--is this appropriate or did i jump the gun? Thanks John IMCA #1896 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss
Hello, When Jason brought this to my attention, I was in shock, then angry. A big part of this meteorite business is trusting your source. Mistakes can happen and without looking to deep for a guilty party and misdeeds, I decided to just call it a lesson learned and to make sure from now on to trust my source- 100%, but also...tether the camel so to speak... I have pretty much contacted everyone who bought that particular Mifflin stone from me and I have taken care of business and refunded them their money. However, if you have a question about a Mifflin piece that you got from me...take a picture and send it to me and I will confirm one way or the other. Luckily I sold very few pieces from that stone and most are accounted for. ALL my other Mifflin was a 100% Mifflin...because I found them or was with the person who found them and then purchased them from them..in the field! No wonder the majority of my meteorites these days come with super provenance, and many cards with chain of ownership. If you do not believe me...look at my ebay store and see how I emphasis provenance these days! Best Wishes Michael Cottingham On May 7, 2011, at 7:12 PM, jason utas wrote: Hello All, My story begins in the summer of last year. I saw some strange pieces of 'Mifflin' on ebay that I thought looked funny. People were talking about the meteorite having two lithologies, but...the slices and individuals that I saw looked 'off.' A select few looked like H-chondrites, and they had the telltale signs of wear that freshly-imported Moroccan falls bear: worn edges, exposed metal flakes on protruding corners (where the fusion crust had been worn off due to improper packing), etc. At the time, I did nothing but send a private email to Anne Black notifying her of my suspicions. I spoke with some other prominent list-members addressing it, and they all agreed that the material looked funny, but that nothing could be done about it given the required burden of proof. So, I sat on my hands for several months. Just over a month ago, I saw a piece of the funny-looking 'Mifflin' on ebay. It looked similar to some pieces that I remembered seeing on ebay months before, and, being an end-cut, I was able to see both the stone's funny-looking inside -- and the apparent metal grains on the stone's exterior. I used the 'buy-it-now' option to purchase the end-cut, and it arrived while Peter and I were in Morocco. When we returned, I promptly shipped the end-cut off to Tony Irving of the University of Washington; he agreed to analyze the stone posthaste. The results came back, but Tony wanted to wait until the probe was recallibrated so that he could run it again to be sure. Lo and behold, he did confirm that my end-cut was an equilibrated H-chondrite, with an olivine Fa of 18.6. For comparison, Chergach and Bassikounou both have Fa contents of 18.4 and 18.6, respectively. University of Madison, Wisconsin performed most of the work on the Mifflin fall. Between them and the Field Museum, over twenty separate stones were analyzed. They were all L5. Mifflin is classified as an L5, with an Fa of ~24.9 +/- 0.2. I then sent Tony the link to the ebay auction so he could confirm that the piece that he had analyzed was indeed the piece that I had sent him. He did. I purchased my end-cut from Bryan Scarborough (IMCA), who purchased it from Michael Cottingham, who purchased it from Greg Catterton (IMCA), who purchased the stone with Carl Esparza from the finder. Carl told me the following story over the phone: He was contacted out of the blue by someone hunting in the Mifflin strewn-field. According to Carl, the finder stated that he thought there was a conspiracy against him, because no one would offer him more than $5/g. and he believed his finds were worth more than that. So, according to Carl, he then offered the finder $10/g, and a deal was struck. But...the finder asked that he not be paid via paypal or wire transfer; he wanted cash mailed to a P.O. Box. So, Carl mailed the money to the P.O. Box and the first of two 'Mifflin' stones was over-nighted to him the next day. It should be noted that Carl included Greg Catterton as his partner in this deal, and Greg sent over several hundred dollars to help pay for the stones. Unfortunately, as Carl said over the phone, his old computer recently died, so he lacks the name and email address of the finder, as well as the number/address of the P.O. Box to which he sent the money. Carl is also unwilling to share the bank receipt from the transaction which would prove that he did make a large cash withdrawal for the stones. I asked Carl for the finder's phone number, but he told me that he had recently tried to call the finder, himself, only to find that the number had been disconnected. He was unwilling to share the number with me, regardless. On the phone, Carl suggested that his source
Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss
Hello, I would also like to say one last thing on this subject, as far as I am concerned. I was not told the complete chain of command of this particular Mifflin stone when I traded/bought this from Greg Catterton. If I had been told the complete story and how this stone originated... I would of NEVER have purchased/traded for it in the first place. Best Wishes Michael Cottingham On May 7, 2011, at 7:12 PM, jason utas wrote: Hello All, My story begins in the summer of last year. I saw some strange pieces of 'Mifflin' on ebay that I thought looked funny. People were talking about the meteorite having two lithologies, but...the slices and individuals that I saw looked 'off.' A select few looked like H-chondrites, and they had the telltale signs of wear that freshly-imported Moroccan falls bear: worn edges, exposed metal flakes on protruding corners (where the fusion crust had been worn off due to improper packing), etc. At the time, I did nothing but send a private email to Anne Black notifying her of my suspicions. I spoke with some other prominent list-members addressing it, and they all agreed that the material looked funny, but that nothing could be done about it given the required burden of proof. So, I sat on my hands for several months. Just over a month ago, I saw a piece of the funny-looking 'Mifflin' on ebay. It looked similar to some pieces that I remembered seeing on ebay months before, and, being an end-cut, I was able to see both the stone's funny-looking inside -- and the apparent metal grains on the stone's exterior. I used the 'buy-it-now' option to purchase the end-cut, and it arrived while Peter and I were in Morocco. When we returned, I promptly shipped the end-cut off to Tony Irving of the University of Washington; he agreed to analyze the stone posthaste. The results came back, but Tony wanted to wait until the probe was recallibrated so that he could run it again to be sure. Lo and behold, he did confirm that my end-cut was an equilibrated H-chondrite, with an olivine Fa of 18.6. For comparison, Chergach and Bassikounou both have Fa contents of 18.4 and 18.6, respectively. University of Madison, Wisconsin performed most of the work on the Mifflin fall. Between them and the Field Museum, over twenty separate stones were analyzed. They were all L5. Mifflin is classified as an L5, with an Fa of ~24.9 +/- 0.2. I then sent Tony the link to the ebay auction so he could confirm that the piece that he had analyzed was indeed the piece that I had sent him. He did. I purchased my end-cut from Bryan Scarborough (IMCA), who purchased it from Michael Cottingham, who purchased it from Greg Catterton (IMCA), who purchased the stone with Carl Esparza from the finder. Carl told me the following story over the phone: He was contacted out of the blue by someone hunting in the Mifflin strewn-field. According to Carl, the finder stated that he thought there was a conspiracy against him, because no one would offer him more than $5/g. and he believed his finds were worth more than that. So, according to Carl, he then offered the finder $10/g, and a deal was struck. But...the finder asked that he not be paid via paypal or wire transfer; he wanted cash mailed to a P.O. Box. So, Carl mailed the money to the P.O. Box and the first of two 'Mifflin' stones was over-nighted to him the next day. It should be noted that Carl included Greg Catterton as his partner in this deal, and Greg sent over several hundred dollars to help pay for the stones. Unfortunately, as Carl said over the phone, his old computer recently died, so he lacks the name and email address of the finder, as well as the number/address of the P.O. Box to which he sent the money. Carl is also unwilling to share the bank receipt from the transaction which would prove that he did make a large cash withdrawal for the stones. I asked Carl for the finder's phone number, but he told me that he had recently tried to call the finder, himself, only to find that the number had been disconnected. He was unwilling to share the number with me, regardless. On the phone, Carl suggested that his source had likely ripped him off, and he said that he believed that it was the reason why he had been asked to send the money untraceably, as he did; Carl described the situation as a typical scam. He also suggested that the stones *might* be from an unrelated fall -- or could be the result of Mifflin being an 'Almahata Sitta sort of fall.' I can't disprove either of those ideas, but they are unlikely for the following reasons: 1) Almahata Sitta is a unique event in the history of meteoritics. Different lithologies have been observed in many meteorites, but to have individual stones of completely different and unrelated meteorite types falling separately is unique. Out of the 1,238 accepted observed falls in the meteoritical bulletin, only
Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss
Amen Brother! Michael Cottingham On May 7, 2011, at 9:21 PM, Michael Farmer wrote: I have this to say, we discussed this right after the fall, no one I know believed that story or that stone was true. It is lunacy to think that someone in Mifflin decided to refuse all the offers of cash posted all over the countryside, all of us running around there, begging to buy any stones, and decided to call someone in Tucson, who doesnt even have a website. So you think they sold the stone, shipped it out and waited for cash in the mail? BOGUS to the core. Terry was offering huge amounts of money for stones and there were no sellers. So if you ask me to believe that a local decided to sell to someone far away instead of just pocketing $100 bills that almost every hunter there had in their wallets and were ready to spend on a meteorite. This was a scam hatched up by someone who did not even bother to go to Mifflin. I have said it before, and say it again, THINK before you BUY, if it smells fishy, it likely is. Buy from real hunters and dealers, not those who got it through the mail but can't say from whom. Michael Farmer --- On Sat, 5/7/11, drtanuki drtan...@yahoo.com wrote: From: drtanuki drtan...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss To: michael cottingham mikew...@gilanet.com, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Saturday, May 7, 2011, 8:57 PM Hi Michael, Great job as always; thank you! It seems that Carl needs to come clean and name the person that he bought the material from? Carl at least owes us that courtesy if he wants to maintain any respectability in the meteorite world? From what I read the water is too murky if someone spends any amount of money to buy from an unknown finder? seller and cannot? remember their name, etc.? And address? A city? Anything? Carl how much of this material did this finder? seller help you put on the market? Carl? Do you have an explanation? Please do give us the whole and factual story. Carl I am not accusing you of anything; rather hoping that you will quickly clear up matters before further commotion appears in the henhouse. Best Regards, Dirk Ross...Tokyo --- On Sun, 5/8/11, michael cottingham mikew...@gilanet.com wrote: From: michael cottingham mikew...@gilanet.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss To: drtanuki drtan...@yahoo.com Cc: jason utas jasonu...@gmail.com, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Sunday, May 8, 2011, 11:38 AM Hello, Good question. I have accounted for and taken out of the gene pool, almost all of the bad Mifflin that I got dragged into. I do not know about the others. Best Wishes Michael Cottingham On May 7, 2011, at 8:31 PM, drtanuki wrote: Jason, You raise several good points and analysis. One further question that should be asked is how many grams of this rock were put into the market as Mifflin? And have they made their way into the gene pool to how many buyers and sellers and yet to reproduce more offspring? Dirk Ross...Tokyo --- On Sun, 5/8/11, jason utas jasonu...@gmail.com wrote: From: jason utas jasonu...@gmail.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss To: Meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Sunday, May 8, 2011, 10:12 AM Hello All, My story begins in the summer of last year. I saw some strange pieces of 'Mifflin' on ebay that I thought looked funny. People were talking about the meteorite having two lithologies, but...the slices and individuals that I saw looked 'off.' A select few looked like H-chondrites, and they had the telltale signs of wear that freshly-imported Moroccan falls bear: worn edges, exposed metal flakes on protruding corners (where the fusion crust had been worn off due to improper packing), etc. At the time, I did nothing but send a private email to Anne Black notifying her of my suspicions. I spoke with some other prominent list-members addressing it, and they all agreed that the material looked funny, but that nothing could be done about it given the required burden of proof. So, I sat on my hands for several months. Just over a month ago, I saw a piece of the funny-looking 'Mifflin' on ebay. It looked similar to some pieces that I remembered seeing on ebay months before, and, being an end-cut, I was able to see both the stone's funny-looking inside -- and the apparent metal grains on the stone's exterior. I used the 'buy-it-now' option to purchase the end-cut, and it arrived while Peter and I were in Morocco. When we returned, I promptly shipped the end-cut off to Tony Irving of the University of Washington; he agreed to analyze the stone posthaste. The results came back, but Tony wanted to wait until the probe was recallibrated so that he could run it again to be sure. Lo and behold, he did confirm that my end-cut was an
Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss
All of the scams lately from Kansas to Mifflin to Texas are really starting to be a blight on meteorites. Sad that these falls seem to bring out the scammers wanting to cash in. Now you all know exactly why the Whetstone Mountains meteorite fall was closely controlled and information was not published. Pieces are still being found there in great condition and without drama. Michael Farmer Michael Farmer Sent from my iPad On May 8, 2011, at 8:22 AM, Mike Hankey mike.han...@gmail.com wrote: Pics of the find in situ with gps coords should settle this. On May 8, 2011, at 10:11 AM, Joe Kerchner skyrockmeteori...@yahoo.com wrote: I think greg should get booted or at least suspended from here for spreading made up BS on here that could ruin my reputation. This is NOT RIGHT. I am so very very POed right now. I cant even believe Im reading this crap. Why did you make this up, THEN POST IT. Cmon grag. I know we never got along, but this? Best Wishes, Joe Kerchner http://illinoismeteorites.com http://skyrockcafe.com --- On Sun, 5/8/11, Count Deiro countde...@earthlink.net wrote: From: Count Deiro countde...@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss To: Greg Catterton star_wars_collec...@yahoo.com, Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com, jasonu...@gmail.com, Linton Rohr linton...@earthlink.net Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Sunday, May 8, 2011, 6:37 AM Greg, Shawn, Dirk, Jason and List, Since seeking expertise in hunting and purchasing meteorites from persons I met through this List, I have been lied to, and cheated, more than a few times. I must be fair and mention I've also made some really great friendships. Most of my bad experiences with Listees has been caused by my own naiveté' and an innate character fault I have.and that is I want to believe everything that is said to me. I bought a few grams of prepared Mifflin from Joe not knowing it was stolen. This latest scandal is heart breaking. I don't want anything to do with stolen meteorites. Greg, I would appreciate your telling me which property owner was cheated as I wish to return to the rightful owner either the meteorite, or a sum of money equal to it's value. Greg, I would also ask that you tell me, OL if you wish, whom you believe was the other thief. I want to correct any dealings I may have had with him too. Count Deiro IMCA 3536 -Original Message- From: Greg Catterton star_wars_collec...@yahoo.com Sent: May 8, 2011 1:07 AM To: Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com, jasonu...@gmail.com, Linton Rohr linton...@earthlink.net Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss Ok. I cant keep this quite anymore... Screw the lies and secrets. I think the truth should be out there. About Joes awesome stone... He told me personally and we also talked over email about it... he found it on the same persons property that someone else had already stolen a stone from. Yes, I know this because he told me directly. No second hand BS. He lied to everyone and even had a totally BS story published about his finding it under a bridge. So please, before anyone else goes to say how Joe fed his family, took a trip to disney world and what not, he lied about finding it and thats the true story behind the Kerchner Stone Yes, his family ate, but what about the person whos land it fell on? Ask her how her family trip to disney went... Joe, sorry man, but it had to come out at some time. I took public one person who stole material from Mifflin, anyone else care to out the other? I dont know the whole story, so I will let others tell that tale. I know many on this list know of Joes lie and also the other person... but I honestly doubt ANYONE will come forward on this. Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites --- On Sun, 5/8/11, Linton Rohr linton...@earthlink.net wrote: From: Linton Rohr linton...@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss To: Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com, jasonu...@gmail.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Sunday, May 8, 2011, 3:29 AM Ahoy there, Jason, Shawn and list. Intriguing situation, Jason. Thanks for sharing. And like you Shawn, I'm glad I got my beautiful little slice from Joe. I didn't see all that much drama in it, though. He put in a lot of work, and found enough to be able to both keep some and sell enough to feed his family. That's just plain cool, in my book. Thanks Joe! Linton - Original Message - From: Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com To: jasonu...@gmail.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2011 8:38 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss Jason and Listers, This is a very
Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss
Hello, Good question. I have accounted for and taken out of the gene pool, almost all of the bad Mifflin that I got dragged into. I do not know about the others. Best Wishes Michael Cottingham On May 7, 2011, at 8:31 PM, drtanuki wrote: Jason, You raise several good points and analysis. One further question that should be asked is how many grams of this rock were put into the market as Mifflin? And have they made their way into the gene pool to how many buyers and sellers and yet to reproduce more offspring? Dirk Ross...Tokyo --- On Sun, 5/8/11, jason utas jasonu...@gmail.com wrote: From: jason utas jasonu...@gmail.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss To: Meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Sunday, May 8, 2011, 10:12 AM Hello All, My story begins in the summer of last year. I saw some strange pieces of 'Mifflin' on ebay that I thought looked funny. People were talking about the meteorite having two lithologies, but...the slices and individuals that I saw looked 'off.' A select few looked like H-chondrites, and they had the telltale signs of wear that freshly-imported Moroccan falls bear: worn edges, exposed metal flakes on protruding corners (where the fusion crust had been worn off due to improper packing), etc. At the time, I did nothing but send a private email to Anne Black notifying her of my suspicions. I spoke with some other prominent list-members addressing it, and they all agreed that the material looked funny, but that nothing could be done about it given the required burden of proof. So, I sat on my hands for several months. Just over a month ago, I saw a piece of the funny-looking 'Mifflin' on ebay. It looked similar to some pieces that I remembered seeing on ebay months before, and, being an end-cut, I was able to see both the stone's funny-looking inside -- and the apparent metal grains on the stone's exterior. I used the 'buy-it-now' option to purchase the end-cut, and it arrived while Peter and I were in Morocco. When we returned, I promptly shipped the end-cut off to Tony Irving of the University of Washington; he agreed to analyze the stone posthaste. The results came back, but Tony wanted to wait until the probe was recallibrated so that he could run it again to be sure. Lo and behold, he did confirm that my end-cut was an equilibrated H-chondrite, with an olivine Fa of 18.6. For comparison, Chergach and Bassikounou both have Fa contents of 18.4 and 18.6, respectively. University of Madison, Wisconsin performed most of the work on the Mifflin fall. Between them and the Field Museum, over twenty separate stones were analyzed. They were all L5. Mifflin is classified as an L5, with an Fa of ~24.9 +/- 0.2. I then sent Tony the link to the ebay auction so he could confirm that the piece that he had analyzed was indeed the piece that I had sent him. He did. I purchased my end-cut from Bryan Scarborough (IMCA), who purchased it from Michael Cottingham, who purchased it from Greg Catterton (IMCA), who purchased the stone with Carl Esparza from the finder. Carl told me the following story over the phone: He was contacted out of the blue by someone hunting in the Mifflin strewn-field. According to Carl, the finder stated that he thought there was a conspiracy against him, because no one would offer him more than $5/g. and he believed his finds were worth more than that. So, according to Carl, he then offered the finder $10/g, and a deal was struck. But...the finder asked that he not be paid via paypal or wire transfer; he wanted cash mailed to a P.O. Box. So, Carl mailed the money to the P.O. Box and the first of two 'Mifflin' stones was over-nighted to him the next day. It should be noted that Carl included Greg Catterton as his partner in this deal, and Greg sent over several hundred dollars to help pay for the stones. Unfortunately, as Carl said over the phone, his old computer recently died, so he lacks the name and email address of the finder, as well as the number/address of the P.O. Box to which he sent the money. Carl is also unwilling to share the bank receipt from the transaction which would prove that he did make a large cash withdrawal for the stones. I asked Carl for the finder's phone number, but he told me that he had recently tried to call the finder, himself, only to find that the number had been disconnected. He was unwilling to share the number with me, regardless. On the phone, Carl suggested that his source had likely ripped him off, and he said that he believed that it was the reason why he had been asked to send the money untraceably, as he did; Carl described the situation as a typical scam. He also suggested that the stones *might* be from an unrelated fall -- or could be the result of Mifflin being an 'Almahata Sitta sort of fall.' I can't disprove
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Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss
Sounds like someone owes me a Mifflin replacement since I have a piece of this rock from Carl myself!!! Stuart McDaniel Lawndale, NC Secr., Cleve. Co. Astronomical Society IMCA #9052 Member - KCA, KBCA, CDUSA -Original Message- From: Greg Catterton Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2011 4:07 AM To: Shawn Alan ; jasonu...@gmail.com ; Linton Rohr Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss Ok. I cant keep this quite anymore... Screw the lies and secrets. I think the truth should be out there. About Joes awesome stone... He told me personally and we also talked over email about it... he found it on the same persons property that someone else had already stolen a stone from. Yes, I know this because he told me directly. No second hand BS. He lied to everyone and even had a totally BS story published about his finding it under a bridge. So please, before anyone else goes to say how Joe fed his family, took a trip to disney world and what not, he lied about finding it and thats the true story behind the Kerchner Stone Yes, his family ate, but what about the person whos land it fell on? Ask her how her family trip to disney went... Joe, sorry man, but it had to come out at some time. I took public one person who stole material from Mifflin, anyone else care to out the other? I dont know the whole story, so I will let others tell that tale. I know many on this list know of Joes lie and also the other person... but I honestly doubt ANYONE will come forward on this. Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites --- On Sun, 5/8/11, Linton Rohr linton...@earthlink.net wrote: From: Linton Rohr linton...@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss To: Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com, jasonu...@gmail.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Sunday, May 8, 2011, 3:29 AM Ahoy there, Jason, Shawn and list. Intriguing situation, Jason. Thanks for sharing. And like you Shawn, I'm glad I got my beautiful little slice from Joe. I didn't see all that much drama in it, though. He put in a lot of work, and found enough to be able to both keep some and sell enough to feed his family. That's just plain cool, in my book. Thanks Joe! Linton - Original Message - From: Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com To: jasonu...@gmail.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2011 8:38 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss Jason and Listers, This is a very interesting post in the since I have to say something doesn't add up. One an anonymous finder contacts Carl and has him send cash to a PO box. Red flag. Two the phone number is disconnected. Three the transaction was done in cash. I have to say with those three elements this would have to be a scam, someone got had. If this was a legit sale wouldn't it have been done in the correct ways via pay pal not some undercover 007 style, sending cash in the mail to a PO BOX? As for testing goes, cant Carl Agee do a terrestrial age analysis and also have a cre done which can prove or disprove this theory that someone is suggesting that Mifflin has two litholgies, which I have to say isnt the case and that these stones are not related to Mifflin in anyway from the evidence presented by Jason. Now the question is who was the scammer. I have to assume that one this scammer knew what they were doing and somehow was or is connected to the meteorite collecting world or they are really smart and picked up how to scam meteorite hunter 101. First of all they knew of Carl, two they knew of the fall, three, they knew of what a freshly fallen meteorite looks like and four the meteorite in question is a real meteorite but not from the same fall. I think the scammer is one of us or is connected to one of us just because of the circumstances of the event and that the meteorite is a real meteorite and has fusion crust. If it was a non meteoritest, I think it would have been a stone, but this was not the case it was a real meteorite in the mists of being a fake Mifflin. This is to good to be done by some non meteorite collector but again people are getting smarter these days to make some cash. But this means that this scammer would have to buy a real meteorite to turn around to sell as a fake recent meteorite fall. All I can say is if I came into this situation I would have thought the sale would have been a scam right from the start with me sending money to a PO box. Also I am glad I didn't buy this stuff I was able to buy some from Joe Kerchner which that had some drama in its self as well. My 2 cents Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBaystore http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss jason utas jasonutas at gmail.com Sat May 7 21:12:16 EDT 2011 Previous message: [meteorite-list] Where is everyone? Facebook?
Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss
Hello All, I have a request to make of people posting to this List, IMCA List or elsewhere. Since there are multiple members with the same first name, (ie. Carl, Dave, Eric, Mike, Bob, Greg, among others), can posters please include the last initial or complete last name of the particular person they are referring to. I think this will help people reading these posts now months or years later not get confused as to who the post is about. Thank You! GregH Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection gmh...@centurylink.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 -Original Message- From: Stuart McDaniel Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2011 12:47 PM To: Shawn Alan ; jasonu...@gmail.com ; Linton Rohr Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss Sounds like someone owes me a Mifflin replacement since I have a piece of this rock from Carl myself!!! Stuart McDaniel Lawndale, NC Secr., Cleve. Co. Astronomical Society IMCA #9052 Member - KCA, KBCA, CDUSA -Original Message- From: Greg Catterton Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2011 4:07 AM To: Shawn Alan ; jasonu...@gmail.com ; Linton Rohr Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss Ok. I cant keep this quite anymore... Screw the lies and secrets. I think the truth should be out there. About Joes awesome stone... He told me personally and we also talked over email about it... he found it on the same persons property that someone else had already stolen a stone from. Yes, I know this because he told me directly. No second hand BS. He lied to everyone and even had a totally BS story published about his finding it under a bridge. So please, before anyone else goes to say how Joe fed his family, took a trip to disney world and what not, he lied about finding it and thats the true story behind the Kerchner Stone Yes, his family ate, but what about the person whos land it fell on? Ask her how her family trip to disney went... Joe, sorry man, but it had to come out at some time. I took public one person who stole material from Mifflin, anyone else care to out the other? I dont know the whole story, so I will let others tell that tale. I know many on this list know of Joes lie and also the other person... but I honestly doubt ANYONE will come forward on this. Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites --- On Sun, 5/8/11, Linton Rohr linton...@earthlink.net wrote: From: Linton Rohr linton...@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss To: Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com, jasonu...@gmail.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Sunday, May 8, 2011, 3:29 AM Ahoy there, Jason, Shawn and list. Intriguing situation, Jason. Thanks for sharing. And like you Shawn, I'm glad I got my beautiful little slice from Joe. I didn't see all that much drama in it, though. He put in a lot of work, and found enough to be able to both keep some and sell enough to feed his family. That's just plain cool, in my book. Thanks Joe! Linton - Original Message - From: Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com To: jasonu...@gmail.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2011 8:38 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss Jason and Listers, This is a very interesting post in the since I have to say something doesn't add up. One an anonymous finder contacts Carl and has him send cash to a PO box. Red flag. Two the phone number is disconnected. Three the transaction was done in cash. I have to say with those three elements this would have to be a scam, someone got had. If this was a legit sale wouldn't it have been done in the correct ways via pay pal not some undercover 007 style, sending cash in the mail to a PO BOX? As for testing goes, cant Carl Agee do a terrestrial age analysis and also have a cre done which can prove or disprove this theory that someone is suggesting that Mifflin has two litholgies, which I have to say isnt the case and that these stones are not related to Mifflin in anyway from the evidence presented by Jason. Now the question is who was the scammer. I have to assume that one this scammer knew what they were doing and somehow was or is connected to the meteorite collecting world or they are really smart and picked up how to scam meteorite hunter 101. First of all they knew of Carl, two they knew of the fall, three, they knew of what a freshly fallen meteorite looks like and four the meteorite in question is a real meteorite but not from the same fall. I think the scammer is one of us or is connected to one of us just because of the circumstances of the event and that the meteorite is a real meteorite and has fusion crust. If it was a non meteoritest, I think it would have been a stone, but this was not the case it was a real meteorite in the mists of being
Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss
Greetings, Since Greg has went publically and made the claim that Joe found his stone some where else other than the bridge, I would ask at this time that he provide proof to the list, this is so. While I don't have reason to not believe either Joe or Greg, someone isn't playing straight and to bring about the truth here lets see posts that were made or verification from several sources. --AL Mitterling Mitterling Meteorites __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss
I totally agree Adam and I will be following this closely. Stuart McDaniel Lawndale, NC Secr., Cleve. Co. Astronomical Society IMCA #9052 Member - KCA, KBCA, CDUSA -Original Message- From: Adam Hupe Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2011 12:06 PM To: Adam Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss When purchasing artifacts, I learned that the more lengthy a seller's explanation is, the more likely you are dealing with a fraudster. When the story is long-winded as is the case with this bogus Mifflin, I immediately become cautious. It is rare for dealers of genuine artifacts to go into more detail than is necessary. The truth is much easier to tell than a lie and doesn't require senseless backup explanations. In this day and age, why would anybody deal with somebody they have never met and send cash to a P.O. Box without first receiving the product? Nobody likes to cut completely crusted stones so it is difficult to asses what lays under a fresh fusion crust. A magnet might help a little bit. It really is a matter of trust and it seems this trust is being violated frequently these days when it comes to falls. It is not fair to the people in the field spending hundreds of hours finding legitimate stones to have some con artist purchase pieces for 1/100th the cost and then passing them off as a different fall. The meteorite fall market is so thin, one counterfeit can do widespread damage. Now some collectors will question the authenticity of their Mifflin pieces and other recent falls unless they know the exact circumstances of where the meteorite was found and by whom. It is too bad a few Filthy, Greedy, Con-Artists have infiltrated this semi-exclusive market which is based on trust! The buck stops with the person that initially brought these phoneys to market. Time to take out the trash! Adam __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Mifflin with provenance
With all of the goings on now concerning Mifflin stones, I want to mention two important things here. The first concerns Todd Parker and the 10.3 gram Mifflin stone that he has on eBay right now. http://cgi.ebay.com/Mifflin-Meteorite-Fresh-Fall-Wisconsin-10-3-gram-/170637598575?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item27bacb1f6f I bought this stone directly from the finder Vicky Olds and traded it to Todd recently so it is a bonified true blue Mifflin stone. That is the chain of ownership. This stone is even more collectible as it comes with a map which pinpoints the exact spot on the 40 acre field where Vicky found the stone on April 28, 2010. The map consists of a Google earth image of the 40 acre farm with 5 stones marked in red dots and the stone that Todd is auctioning off circled. Vicky didn't have a scale so she estimated the weight of the stone at 9 grams which is pretty close for a guess. The stone actually weighs 10.3 grams on a good scale. The bottom part of the page she gave me with the Google Earth map on the top reads 1 of 5 meteorites from the 40 acre field North of Iowa-Grant Schools Found by Vicky Olds on April 28, 2010 Livingston, WI 9 grams and then it is signed by Vicky Olds. Vicky is well known as the most successful local hunter involved in the Mifflin recovery efforts and to have one of her stones is a very unique opportunity as she did not sell all of her stones. I think, but not certain, that her grand total in the end was 8 stones recovered. I made a trade with Todd for his 108 gram Mifflin stone that I found. Todd gave me permission to disclose details of our trade. I traded Todd four Mifflin stones (one of which was the Vicky Olds stone) and a slice plus some cash for his stone. I can vouch for Todd and tell you that anything he sells on eBay as a Mifflin stone is just as he saysand you can take that to the bank. Which brings me to the second point concerning the Mifflin recovery efforts. The discussion has centered around hunters stealing stones from landowners. The hunt wasn't all roses lollipops and sunshine for the hunters either. The car dealership owner (whose name escapes me right now and that is just as well) gave hunters permission to hunt his property. His property was across the road from the barn where the first stone was found. I hunted his property right alongside Robert Ward with permission from the car dealer. A deal had already been made and agreed to by all parties involved to pay the pre agreed on rate for and stones found. The dealer, his son, Robert Ward and I were all strolling along the back part of his property when Robert finds a 26 gram fragment just inside the fence on his property. I could tell right then by the look on this guys face that he was not happy about Robert finding the stone, but a deal is a deal. Right? Not this time sports fans. The car dealer asks Robert if he can take the stone home so he can show it to his wife and photograph it. At this point, I had a very uneasy feeling. You guessed it.he refused to give the stone back to Robert and in doing so, stole from Robert and broke his given word. And that is all I have to say about that. Best wishes and a Happy Mother's Day to all.we would not be here otherwise, Jack Schrader IMCA #2329 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Correction to my last post
In reading my post to the list, I made a glaring errorTodd Parker found the 108 gram Mifflin stone, not me. The typo reads that I found and should read that he found Apologies to Todd and all for my error. Jack __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss
Hello All...again. I am taking the advice of another member and decided to use my whole last name for other consideration I had not thought of. Like Jack Schrader's nice well wishes on Mother's Day, I also would like to wish a Happy Mother's Day to all that it applies! Best Regards, Greg Hupé Greg Hupé The Hupé Collection gmh...@centurylink.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 -Original Message- From: Greg Hupe Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2011 12:55 PM To: meteoritelist Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss Hello All, I have a request to make of people posting to this List, IMCA List or elsewhere. Since there are multiple members with the same first name, (ie. Carl, Dave, Eric, Mike, Bob, Greg, among others), can posters please include the last initial or complete last name of the particular person they are referring to. I think this will help people reading these posts now months or years later not get confused as to who the post is about. Thank You! GregH Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection gmh...@centurylink.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 -Original Message- From: Stuart McDaniel Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2011 12:47 PM To: Shawn Alan ; jasonu...@gmail.com ; Linton Rohr Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss Sounds like someone owes me a Mifflin replacement since I have a piece of this rock from Carl myself!!! Stuart McDaniel Lawndale, NC Secr., Cleve. Co. Astronomical Society IMCA #9052 Member - KCA, KBCA, CDUSA -Original Message- From: Greg Catterton Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2011 4:07 AM To: Shawn Alan ; jasonu...@gmail.com ; Linton Rohr Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss Ok. I cant keep this quite anymore... Screw the lies and secrets. I think the truth should be out there. About Joes awesome stone... He told me personally and we also talked over email about it... he found it on the same persons property that someone else had already stolen a stone from. Yes, I know this because he told me directly. No second hand BS. He lied to everyone and even had a totally BS story published about his finding it under a bridge. So please, before anyone else goes to say how Joe fed his family, took a trip to disney world and what not, he lied about finding it and thats the true story behind the Kerchner Stone Yes, his family ate, but what about the person whos land it fell on? Ask her how her family trip to disney went... Joe, sorry man, but it had to come out at some time. I took public one person who stole material from Mifflin, anyone else care to out the other? I dont know the whole story, so I will let others tell that tale. I know many on this list know of Joes lie and also the other person... but I honestly doubt ANYONE will come forward on this. Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites --- On Sun, 5/8/11, Linton Rohr linton...@earthlink.net wrote: From: Linton Rohr linton...@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss To: Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com, jasonu...@gmail.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Sunday, May 8, 2011, 3:29 AM Ahoy there, Jason, Shawn and list. Intriguing situation, Jason. Thanks for sharing. And like you Shawn, I'm glad I got my beautiful little slice from Joe. I didn't see all that much drama in it, though. He put in a lot of work, and found enough to be able to both keep some and sell enough to feed his family. That's just plain cool, in my book. Thanks Joe! Linton - Original Message - From: Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com To: jasonu...@gmail.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2011 8:38 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss Jason and Listers, This is a very interesting post in the since I have to say something doesn't add up. One an anonymous finder contacts Carl and has him send cash to a PO box. Red flag. Two the phone number is disconnected. Three the transaction was done in cash. I have to say with those three elements this would have to be a scam, someone got had. If this was a legit sale wouldn't it have been done in the correct ways via pay pal not some undercover 007 style, sending cash in the mail to a PO BOX? As for testing goes, cant Carl Agee do a terrestrial age analysis and also have a cre done which can prove or disprove this theory that someone is suggesting that Mifflin has two litholgies, which I have to say isnt the case and that these stones are not related to Mifflin in anyway from the evidence presented by Jason. Now the question is who was the scammer. I have to assume that one this scammer knew what they were doing and somehow was or is connected to the meteorite collecting world or they are really smart
[meteorite-list] POP QUIZ FRIDAYS ANSWER
Helli Listers I would like to thank everyone that submitted their answers and congratulated John L C for being the Lister to send me the correct answer. He will be receiving a free Harrisonville 245mg meteorite fragment found in 1933 in Cass Co. Missouri. Question What is the first ANSMET meteorite to be collected? Answer Allan Hills 76001 (ALHA 76001)found in 1976 or 1978 by the ANSMET team. For those you that would like to read up on the Antartica research trips I was able to find a PDF copy METEORITES,ICE, AND ANTARTICA a personal account by William A. Cassidy Introduction The Yamato Mountain Range wraps the ice sheet around its shoulders like an old man with a shawl. Ice coming from high off the ice plateau of East Antarctica, arriving from as far away as a subice ridge 600 km to the south, finds this mountain range is the first barrier to its flow. The ice has piled its substance up against the mountains in a titanic contest that pits billions of tons of advancing ice against immovable rock, whose roots extend at least to a depth of 30 km. The ice is moving because billions of tons of ice are behind it, pushing it off the continent and into the sea. Ultimately it yields, diverging to flow around the mountains. On the upstream side the rocks have been almost completely overwhelmed – only pink granite peaks protrude above the ice, which spills down between and around them in tremendous frozen streams and eddies, lobes, and deeply crevassed icefalls. The change in elevation of some 1100 m between the high plateau upstream of the mountains and the lower ice flowing away from the downstream slopes creates a spectacular view of this giant downward step in the ice surface. Almost constant howling winds from the interior blow streamers of ice crystals off the mountain peaks and “snow snakes” dance down the slopes in sinuous trains, as if somehow connected to each other. The scale of the scene is such that people become mere specks in an awesome, frigid emptiness. http://proxy.bookfi.org/genesis1/137000/375adbfbeda132a16e08963461b8dc42/_as/%5BCassidy%20R.E.%5D_Meteorites,%20Ice,%20and%20Antarctica%20A%20Personal%20Account(BookFi.org).pdf Meteoritical Bulletin Database DISCOVERY OF THE ALLAN HILLS A76001, ANTARCTICA, STONY METEORITE Name: ALLAN HILLS A76001 Place of find: West of Allan Nunatak, on the edge of the Polar plateau, Victoria Land, Antarctica. 76°45'00S., 159°22'34E. Date of find: January 18, 1977. Class and type: Stone. Olivine-hypersthene chondrite (L6). Olivine Fa24.5. Number of individual specimens: 1 Total weight: 20.151 kg Circumstances of find: Sighted from a helicopter which was taxying 10-15 m above bare ice, during the 1976-1977 season of the U.S.-Japan Joint Antarctic Expedition, 80 m from Allan Hills A76002. Source: K. Yanai, 1978. First meteorites found in Victoria Land, Antarctica, December 1976 and January 1977. Mem. Nat. Inst. Polar Res., Special Issue No. 8, 51-69. Note: Also known as Allan Nunatak No. 1 and as Allan Hills No. 1. Allan Hills A76001 is the name approved by the Nomenclature Committee of the Meteoritical Society. See also: W.A. Cassidy, E. Olsen and K. Yanai, 1977. Antarctica: a deep-freeze storehouse for meteorites. Science 198, 727-73 1, where the coordinates are given as 76°39'27S., 159°33'16E., and E. Olsen etal., 1978. Eleven new meteorites from Antarctica, 1976-1977. Meteoritics 13, 209-225. Thank you Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBaystore http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html [meteorite-list] POP QUIZ FRIDAYS Shawn Alan photophlow at yahoo.com Fri May 6 17:04:20 EDT 2011 Previous message: [meteorite-list] One more offcial meteorite from 2010. Next message: [meteorite-list] AD - ebay: a few very nice meteorites... Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] Hello Listers, Its POP QUIZ FRIDAYS Be the 10th Lister to email me the correct answer and you will win a free Harrisonville 245mg meteorite fragment found in 1933 in Cass Co. Missouri. Question What is the first ANSMET meteorite to be collected? Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBaystore http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html Previous message: [meteorite-list] One more offcial meteorite from 2010. Next message: [meteorite-list] AD - ebay: a few very nice meteorites... Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] More information about the Meteorite-list mailing list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss
Greg Hupe makes a huge pointwhen I first read the name Greg with no initial or last name, momentarily I was, well very very confused until I figured it out. Richard Montgomery - Original Message - From: Greg Hupe gmh...@centurylink.net To: meteoritelist meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2011 9:55 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss Hello All, I have a request to make of people posting to this List, IMCA List or elsewhere. Since there are multiple members with the same first name, (ie. Carl, Dave, Eric, Mike, Bob, Greg, among others), can posters please include the last initial or complete last name of the particular person they are referring to. I think this will help people reading these posts now months or years later not get confused as to who the post is about. Thank You! GregH Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection gmh...@centurylink.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 -Original Message- From: Stuart McDaniel Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2011 12:47 PM To: Shawn Alan ; jasonu...@gmail.com ; Linton Rohr Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss Sounds like someone owes me a Mifflin replacement since I have a piece of this rock from Carl myself!!! Stuart McDaniel Lawndale, NC Secr., Cleve. Co. Astronomical Society IMCA #9052 Member - KCA, KBCA, CDUSA -Original Message- From: Greg Catterton Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2011 4:07 AM To: Shawn Alan ; jasonu...@gmail.com ; Linton Rohr Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss Ok. I cant keep this quite anymore... Screw the lies and secrets. I think the truth should be out there. About Joes awesome stone... He told me personally and we also talked over email about it... he found it on the same persons property that someone else had already stolen a stone from. Yes, I know this because he told me directly. No second hand BS. He lied to everyone and even had a totally BS story published about his finding it under a bridge. So please, before anyone else goes to say how Joe fed his family, took a trip to disney world and what not, he lied about finding it and thats the true story behind the Kerchner Stone Yes, his family ate, but what about the person whos land it fell on? Ask her how her family trip to disney went... Joe, sorry man, but it had to come out at some time. I took public one person who stole material from Mifflin, anyone else care to out the other? I dont know the whole story, so I will let others tell that tale. I know many on this list know of Joes lie and also the other person... but I honestly doubt ANYONE will come forward on this. Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites --- On Sun, 5/8/11, Linton Rohr linton...@earthlink.net wrote: From: Linton Rohr linton...@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss To: Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com, jasonu...@gmail.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Sunday, May 8, 2011, 3:29 AM Ahoy there, Jason, Shawn and list. Intriguing situation, Jason. Thanks for sharing. And like you Shawn, I'm glad I got my beautiful little slice from Joe. I didn't see all that much drama in it, though. He put in a lot of work, and found enough to be able to both keep some and sell enough to feed his family. That's just plain cool, in my book. Thanks Joe! Linton - Original Message - From: Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com To: jasonu...@gmail.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2011 8:38 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss Jason and Listers, This is a very interesting post in the since I have to say something doesn't add up. One an anonymous finder contacts Carl and has him send cash to a PO box. Red flag. Two the phone number is disconnected. Three the transaction was done in cash. I have to say with those three elements this would have to be a scam, someone got had. If this was a legit sale wouldn't it have been done in the correct ways via pay pal not some undercover 007 style, sending cash in the mail to a PO BOX? As for testing goes, cant Carl Agee do a terrestrial age analysis and also have a cre done which can prove or disprove this theory that someone is suggesting that Mifflin has two litholgies, which I have to say isnt the case and that these stones are not related to Mifflin in anyway from the evidence presented by Jason. Now the question is who was the scammer. I have to assume that one this scammer knew what they were doing and somehow was or is connected to the meteorite collecting world or they are really smart and picked up how to scam meteorite hunter 101. First of all they knew of Carl, two they knew of the fall, three, they knew of what a freshly fallen meteorite looks
Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss
Hi Greg Hupe and all, :-) Good idea as it is sometimes hard to follow what went on years laster in threads. I'd say we should do this all the time so we don't get out of practice when a big thread takes off like this. We don't want people thinking bad things about the respectable dealers out there. Best! --AL Mitterling - Original Message - From: Greg Hupé gmh...@centurylink.net To: meteoritelist meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2011 1:43 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss Hello All...again. I am taking the advice of another member and decided to use my whole last name for other consideration I had not thought of. Like Jack Schrader's nice well wishes on Mother's Day, I also would like to wish a Happy Mother's Day to all that it applies! Best Regards, Greg Hupé __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss
I have to agree, Al. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. Or at least *some* proof. He said he said... is far from it. Linton(Rohr, to be perfectly clear ;^) - Original Message - From: al mitt alm...@kconline.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2011 9:50 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss Greetings, Since Greg has went publically and made the claim that Joe found his stone some where else other than the bridge, I would ask at this time that he provide proof to the list, this is so. While I don't have reason to not believe either Joe or Greg, someone isn't playing straight and to bring about the truth here lets see posts that were made or verification from several sources. --AL Mitterling Mitterling Meteorites __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Mifflin Update... and Real Mifflin Photos...
Hello, Since Jason posted his discovery, 2 more pieces of fake Mifflin have been recovered. Taking into account cut loss, I think I am almost certain that I have recovered 95% of the stone that I was duped into buying. I will not be 100% certain until all of the pieces are returned to me. Even though, I have not been 100% refunded for my purchase, I feel it is important to refund people's money immediately or as fast as possible and to get this fake crap off the market and into the trash can... or maybe into a lawyer's hand! PLEASE NOTE: If you have any doubt about a Mifflin specimen you obtained from me ...PLEASE send me a photo so I can confirm one way or the other. Especially ,if it does not look like anything in the Met Bulletin below. Even if you did not get it from me, but just want a second opinion... send me the photo. Here is also a link to photos of Real Mifflin. Everything posted in the Meteoritical Bulletin entry is indeed REAL Mifflin. http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?code=52090 Best Wishes Michael Cottingham __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, WHAT is Amiss
Re Mifflin, I Bought a hand full of small specimens on ebay that were nothing more than hot rocks. It pissed me off, but I figured the guy was a dumb ass rather that fraudulent and just threw them away. It wasn't worth going through PayPal procedures. Someone said the Joe Kerchner issue should be solved By a photo in situ next to a GPS unit. Well, that is not how All hunters process finds. One should not be REQUIRED to Purchase a GPS unit and digital camera to find meteorites. AND it is unreasonable to expect Someone to PROVE innocence. Prove guilt if that is your Thing, but asking someone to prove they are innocent is Not how we do things in the ol' U S of A. Michael On 5/8/11 9:06 AM, Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com wrote: When purchasing artifacts, I learned that the more lengthy a seller's explanation is, the more likely you are dealing with a fraudster. When the story is long-winded as is the case with this bogus Mifflin, I immediately become cautious. It is rare for dealers of genuine artifacts to go into more detail than is necessary. The truth is much easier to tell than a lie and doesn't require senseless backup explanations. In this day and age, why would anybody deal with somebody they have never met and send cash to a P.O. Box without first receiving the product? Nobody likes to cut completely crusted stones so it is difficult to asses what lays under a fresh fusion crust. A magnet might help a little bit. It really is a matter of trust and it seems this trust is being violated frequently these days when it comes to falls. It is not fair to the people in the field spending hundreds of hours finding legitimate stones to have some con artist purchase pieces for 1/100th the cost and then passing them off as a different fall. The meteorite fall market is so thin, one counterfeit can do widespread damage. Now some collectors will question the authenticity of their Mifflin pieces and other recent falls unless they know the exact circumstances of where the meteorite was found and by whom. It is too bad a few Filthy, Greedy, Con-Artists have infiltrated this semi-exclusive market which is based on trust! The buck stops with the person that initially brought these phoneys to market. Time to take out the trash! Adam __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Teachin' a pig to dance is a waste of time and it irritates the pig Mark Twain -- 1. Whenever you're wrong, admit it, 2. Whenever you're right, shut up. Shaquille O'Neal __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, WHAT is Amiss
--- On Sun, 5/8/11, Michael Blood mlbl...@cox.net wrote: By a photo in situ next to a GPS unit. Well, that is not how All hunters process finds. One should not be REQUIRED to Purchase a GPS unit and digital camera to find meteorites. AND it is unreasonable to expect Someone to PROVE innocence. Prove guilt if that is your Thing, but asking someone to prove they are innocent is Not how we do things in the ol' U S of A. Michael Just reading through this thread with sadness, disappointment and concern. No Mifflin here and no plans to own any, but this is a problem for all. I do have to respond to Micheal's post here. While I agree that you shouldn't have to prove your innocence in a court of law, you still have to defend yourself if accused. Since for many hunters this is a business, being able to prove you got a stone from a specific location doesn't just make sense, in this day and age, it is a requirement. Digital cameras are in every cell phone made now. Cheap GPS units can be found new for as little as $50. I find it unbelievable that anyone seriously hunting a new fall wouldn't record their finds in this manner. I find it had to believe that even casual hunters wouldn't make this investment. Falls hold little interest for me at this time, but as far as I'm concerned any meteorite claimed to be from a certain fall, without photographic proof of it's location where it fell, including a photo of the GPS coordinates and stone in the pic, is not worth 1/10th the price of documented stones. If you don't want to record this info, that's fine, but you shouldn't expect anywhere near the same price for properly documented stones. A local dealer told me his Japanese customers like seeing photos of him in the field with the stone as proof he actually hunters and recovers them. Maybe that is the standard all fall chasers need to aspire too... And all fall collectors should require. -- Richard Kowalski Full Moon Photography IMCA #1081 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, WHAT is Amiss
Hello all! One of the members of the french speaking meteorite forum ( http://meteorites.superforum.fr/forum ), conceived an instrument based on the magnetic susceptibility of the meteorites that can easily distinguish between an H and an L chondrite. It only needs a flat surface of 15 mm of diameter to work. It can be a window cut or some flat area of the crust (not uncommon, right?) So, even fully crusted stones can be tested! Nice, isn't it? It can even tell apart or pair stones. The great advantage is that it is a non-destructive test. As the member of the forum has the pseudo Darkangel, his instrument is likely to be called Darkometer :) Darkangel and his Darkometer will be at the Ensishein fair, performing tests to demonstrate the utility of such device. Cheers! Saludos! Sanscelerien On 08-05-2011 21:36, Michael Blood wrote: Re Mifflin, I Bought a hand full of small specimens on ebay that were nothing more than hot rocks. It pissed me off, but I figured the guy was a dumb ass rather that fraudulent and just threw them away. It wasn't worth going through PayPal procedures. Someone said the Joe Kerchner issue should be solved By a photo in situ next to a GPS unit. Well, that is not how All hunters process finds. One should not be REQUIRED to Purchase a GPS unit and digital camera to find meteorites. AND it is unreasonable to expect Someone to PROVE innocence. Prove guilt if that is your Thing, but asking someone to prove they are innocent is Not how we do things in the ol' U S of A. Michael On 5/8/11 9:06 AM, Adam Huperaremeteori...@yahoo.com wrote: When purchasing artifacts, I learned that the more lengthy a seller's explanation is, the more likely you are dealing with a fraudster. When the story is long-winded as is the case with this bogus Mifflin, I immediately become cautious. It is rare for dealers of genuine artifacts to go into more detail than is necessary. The truth is much easier to tell than a lie and doesn't require senseless backup explanations. In this day and age, why would anybody deal with somebody they have never met and send cash to a P.O. Box without first receiving the product? Nobody likes to cut completely crusted stones so it is difficult to asses what lays under a fresh fusion crust. A magnet might help a little bit. It really is a matter of trust and it seems this trust is being violated frequently these days when it comes to falls. It is not fair to the people in the field spending hundreds of hours finding legitimate stones to have some con artist purchase pieces for 1/100th the cost and then passing them off as a different fall. The meteorite fall market is so thin, one counterfeit can do widespread damage. Now some collectors will question the authenticity of their Mifflin pieces and other recent falls unless they know the exact circumstances of where the meteorite was found and by whom. It is too bad a few Filthy, Greedy, Con-Artists have infiltrated this semi-exclusive market which is based on trust! The buck stops with the person that initially brought these phoneys to market. Time to take out the trash! Adam __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Teachin' a pig to dance is a waste of time and it irritates the pig Mark Twain -- 1. Whenever you're wrong, admit it, 2. Whenever you're right, shut up. Shaquille O'Neal __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin Update... and Real Mifflin Photos...
Hello, I think the one you mentioned...is really hard to tell. Catterton did a part trade/cash deal with me and some of the trade material was REAL Mifflin that I personally found, even though you purchased it from him it might be the real deal, at least on that piece. The time frame would have to be after July 10th, because he did not have my real Mifflin until after then. Best Wishes Michael On May 8, 2011, at 4:17 PM, jimsk...@aol.com wrote: Hi Michael and list, Not all of the Mifflin photo's on the Met. Bulletin (IMCA Encyclopedia of Meteorites) are of the real thing. I have three photos there. One is a slice from Joe's main mass, another is a complete individual that I found during my five day hunt and the fake is the slice that I purchased from Greg Catterton. I contacted Greg C this morning to get my refund and have not received a response. I'll remove the photo later. If you have one that looks like this, you've been duped. Best Wishes, Jim K In a message dated 5/8/2011 3:47:13 P.M. Central Daylight Time, mikew...@gilanet.com writes: Hello, Since Jason posted his discovery, 2 more pieces of fake Mifflin have been recovered. Taking into account cut loss, I think I am almost certain that I have recovered 95% of the stone that I was duped into buying. I will not be 100% certain until all of the pieces are returned to me. Even though, I have not been 100% refunded for my purchase, I feel it is important to refund people's money immediately or as fast as possible and to get this fake crap off the market and into the trash can... or maybe into a lawyer's hand! PLEASE NOTE: If you have any doubt about a Mifflin specimen you obtained from me ...PLEASE send me a photo so I can confirm one way or the other. Especially ,if it does not look like anything in the Met Bulletin below. Even if you did not get it from me, but just want a second opinion... send me the photo. Here is also a link to photos of Real Mifflin. Everything posted in the Meteoritical Bulletin entry is indeed REAL Mifflin. http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?code=52090 Best Wishes Michael Cottingham __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] ANSWER - whole stone concerns
How can I be sure that any whole stone be properly labeled as classified? -- Easy, We have only been saying this on the list since The list began: Buy from a dealer known for honesty And integrity. God bless the IMCA and the hard workers of the Board BUT I do not consider an IMCA number to be The equivalent of honesty and integrity. I know an example where two new dealers applied. One was accepted The other was told to, essentially, get some more experience Under his belt. Well, I knew him personally as a person Of honor. The irony was I also knew the other dealer and That individual had attempted to increase price on me AFTER I had sent money for a new fall. Between the Two, there was no question in my mind in whom I would Have confidence. So, no, I do not consider an IMCA logo Sufficient in and of itself to guarantee authenticity. (I DO consider it sufficient to pursue action if I am defrauded, However) Additionally, failing to KNOW people who have long Standing honorable dealings - such as ET, Mike Farmer, Anne Black, Geoff Notkin, etc, etc, etc, then I would take An unknown IMCA member over an entirely unknown entity. In fact, I would not deal with an entirely unknown Entity again - unless I KNEW what I was getting was What I was paying for through other sources than the Seller. (IE I could see by looking at it, it has distinctive Features unique to that fall, the seller bought his stash From someone I know, etc). So, the answer to your question is simple: Buy only From dealers you know AND TRUST or, at the very least from IMCA members. Warm regards, Michael On 5/8/11 8:54 AM, Richard Montgomery rickm...@earthlink.net wrote: Hello List. This latest Mifflin business has me very disturbed, and brings up a question I've been meaning to ask you all for a while now: How can I be sure that any whole stone be properly labeled as classified? Of course there are obvious stones like Camel Donga, (all those that stand alone with external character)...but up until now, only my trust in reputations has allowed me to be comfortable, along with provenance and labels, chain of custody, etc. Yet, now I'll hesitate to acquire whole stones (one of my favorites is to collect wholes and stand-up-by-themselves specimens)...without knowing the back-story comes from someone with honor. I will, however, not hesitate to buy specimens from those of you whole continue to demonstrate honor. Reputations are as important as thorough classifications. This recent incident is exactly what we don't need. If there is honor anywhere, it has been demonstrated by the refundings/returns of those unfortunate to have been affected. Congrats to those of you who did. Only finding the head of the snake will put this all to rest. Or, we all carry microprobes in our backpacks. Richard Montgomery __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Teachin' a pig to dance is a waste of time and it irritates the pig Mark Twain -- 1. Whenever you're wrong, admit it, 2. Whenever you're right, shut up. Shaquille O'Neal __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] CRUCIAL Using Last Names in Posts
Hi John, Greg and All, Thank you for bringing this up again: I cannot tell you how many times this has been an issue over the Years. Imagine yourself in my place... It gets REALLY old hearing Mike Or Michael did or said this or that. Michael Blood? Michael Farmer? Michael Cottingham? Michael Gilmer? Michael Johnson? Michael Murray? Mike Antonelli? Mike Bandli? Mike Fowler? Mike Gallant? Mike Jensen? Mike Martinez? Mike Miller? Mike Tettenborn? JUST TO NAME A FEW! Then there are Bobs, Franks, Toms, Pauls, Steves, Jims, ETC. Yes, please do use LAST NAMES. Thank you, Michael (Blood) On 5/8/11 10:29 AM, John.L.Cabassi j...@cabassi.net wrote: G'Day GregH and Members I agree. I had a little confusion with John L (John Lutz) because I came up as John.L.Cabassi and he came up as JohnL. In my name, the L is for Lincoln. So I'll try and address my posts now as John Cabassi Cheers John Cabassi IMCA #2125 -Original Message- From: imca-boun...@imcamail.de [mailto:imca-boun...@imcamail.de] On Behalf Of Greg Hupe Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2011 10:02 AM To: i...@imcamail.de Subject: [IMCA] Using Last Names in Posts Hello All, I have a request to make of people posting to this List, MetList or elsewhere. Since there are multiple members with the same first name, (i.e.. Carl, Dave, Eric, Mike, Bob, Greg, among others), can posters please include the last initial or complete last name of the particular person they are referring to and include your own last name or initial in your signature. I think this will help people reading these posts now, months or years later not get confused as to who the post is about or who sent it. I am writing this after reading the many posts on the MetList regarding a Mifflin scam that has been perpetrated by someone. Thank You! GregH Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection gmh...@centurylink.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 ___ IMCA mailing list i...@imcamail.de http://lists.imcamail.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/imca ___ IMCA mailing list i...@imcamail.de http://lists.imcamail.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/imca -- Teachin' a pig to dance is a waste of time and it irritates the pig Mark Twain -- 1. Whenever you're wrong, admit it, 2. Whenever you're right, shut up. Shaquille O'Neal __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin Update... and Real Mifflin Photos...
Hi Michael and list, Not all of the Mifflin photo's on the Met. Bulletin (IMCA Encyclopedia of Meteorites) are of the real thing. I have three photos there. One is a slice from Joe's main mass, another is a complete individual that I found during my five day hunt and the fake is the slice that I purchased from Greg Catterton. I contacted Greg C this morning to get my refund and have not received a response. I'll remove the photo later. If you have one that looks like this, you've been duped. Best Wishes, Jim K In a message dated 5/8/2011 3:47:13 P.M. Central Daylight Time, mikew...@gilanet.com writes: Hello, Since Jason posted his discovery, 2 more pieces of fake Mifflin have been recovered. Taking into account cut loss, I think I am almost certain that I have recovered 95% of the stone that I was duped into buying. I will not be 100% certain until all of the pieces are returned to me. Even though, I have not been 100% refunded for my purchase, I feel it is important to refund people's money immediately or as fast as possible and to get this fake crap off the market and into the trash can... or maybe into a lawyer's hand! PLEASE NOTE: If you have any doubt about a Mifflin specimen you obtained from me ...PLEASE send me a photo so I can confirm one way or the other. Especially ,if it does not look like anything in the Met Bulletin below. Even if you did not get it from me, but just want a second opinion... send me the photo. Here is also a link to photos of Real Mifflin. Everything posted in the Meteoritical Bulletin entry is indeed REAL Mifflin. http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?code=52090 Best Wishes Michael Cottingham __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, WHAT is Amiss
IN our court system, you must prove your innocence and are assumed guilty once charges are filed, even if those charges are flimsy, improper or lies. Many police departments, especially in the deep south, are rampant with incompetence and corruption. Many innocent people get railroaded in this county. Jails and prisons are full of innocent people convicted by arrogant shit-tard authorities who are afraid to admit they are wrong and would rather see an innocent person suffer, rather than admit they made a mistake. Take noting for granted. Innocent until proven guilty is a myth and a lie. Best regards, MikeG On 5/8/11, Michael Blood mlbl...@cox.net wrote: Re Mifflin, I Bought a hand full of small specimens on ebay that were nothing more than hot rocks. It pissed me off, but I figured the guy was a dumb ass rather that fraudulent and just threw them away. It wasn't worth going through PayPal procedures. Someone said the Joe Kerchner issue should be solved By a photo in situ next to a GPS unit. Well, that is not how All hunters process finds. One should not be REQUIRED to Purchase a GPS unit and digital camera to find meteorites. AND it is unreasonable to expect Someone to PROVE innocence. Prove guilt if that is your Thing, but asking someone to prove they are innocent is Not how we do things in the ol' U S of A. Michael On 5/8/11 9:06 AM, Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com wrote: When purchasing artifacts, I learned that the more lengthy a seller's explanation is, the more likely you are dealing with a fraudster. When the story is long-winded as is the case with this bogus Mifflin, I immediately become cautious. It is rare for dealers of genuine artifacts to go into more detail than is necessary. The truth is much easier to tell than a lie and doesn't require senseless backup explanations. In this day and age, why would anybody deal with somebody they have never met and send cash to a P.O. Box without first receiving the product? Nobody likes to cut completely crusted stones so it is difficult to asses what lays under a fresh fusion crust. A magnet might help a little bit. It really is a matter of trust and it seems this trust is being violated frequently these days when it comes to falls. It is not fair to the people in the field spending hundreds of hours finding legitimate stones to have some con artist purchase pieces for 1/100th the cost and then passing them off as a different fall. The meteorite fall market is so thin, one counterfeit can do widespread damage. Now some collectors will question the authenticity of their Mifflin pieces and other recent falls unless they know the exact circumstances of where the meteorite was found and by whom. It is too bad a few Filthy, Greedy, Con-Artists have infiltrated this semi-exclusive market which is based on trust! The buck stops with the person that initially brought these phoneys to market. Time to take out the trash! Adam __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Teachin' a pig to dance is a waste of time and it irritates the pig Mark Twain -- 1. Whenever you're wrong, admit it, 2. Whenever you're right, shut up. Shaquille O'Neal __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- --- Galactic Stone Ironworks - Meteorites Amber Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin Update... and Real Mifflin Photos...
Hello, Good Deal. Thanks for clarifying ... Best Wishes Michael Cottingham On May 8, 2011, at 5:08 PM, Greg Catterton wrote: No, I am refunding, giving credit and/or exchanges to all who got the material. While I am taking the steps needed to get 100% of the material returned to me, I still want answers that clearly have not been given... like what is this stone, when/how long ago did it fall and what it likely is. Further testing will be done, and has already been set up. I want answers and so do many others. Proper testing is the only way it can be done. I am doing the best I can to be open and honest concerning what I am doing. Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites --- On Sun, 5/8/11, michael cottingham mikew...@gilanet.com wrote: From: michael cottingham mikew...@gilanet.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin Update... and Real Mifflin Photos... To: Greg Catterton star_wars_collec...@yahoo.com Cc: jimsk...@aol.com, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Sunday, May 8, 2011, 6:58 PM Hello, Does, this mean you are not refunding customer's money now? It is clearly not Mifflin and it seems further tests is just a delay. If I am wrong in assuming this, then I apologize, but it would be best to buy these back now and get them to the trash can and out of collections. Best Wishes Michael Cottingham On May 8, 2011, at 4:38 PM, Greg Catterton wrote: The slice Jim has is the non Mifflin stone. Jim, sorry, I have tons of emails, just got to yours and sent you an email as you must have been posting this. I am reclaiming the material and will be sending a sample soon to be tested to try to confirm when this fell and just what it is. Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites --- On Sun, 5/8/11, michael cottingham mikew...@gilanet.com wrote: From: michael cottingham mikew...@gilanet.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin Update... and Real Mifflin Photos... To: jimsk...@aol.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Sunday, May 8, 2011, 6:21 PM Hello, I think the one you mentioned...is really hard to tell. Catterton did a part trade/cash deal with me and some of the trade material was REAL Mifflin that I personally found, even though you purchased it from him it might be the real deal, at least on that piece. The time frame would have to be after July 10th, because he did not have my real Mifflin until after then. Best Wishes Michael On May 8, 2011, at 4:17 PM, jimsk...@aol.com wrote: Hi Michael and list, Not all of the Mifflin photo's on the Met. Bulletin (IMCA Encyclopedia of Meteorites) are of the real thing. I have three photos there. One is a slice from Joe's main mass, another is a complete individual that I found during my five day hunt and the fake is the slice that I purchased from Greg Catterton. I contacted Greg C this morning to get my refund and have not received a response. I'll remove the photo later. If you have one that looks like this, you've been duped. Best Wishes, Jim K In a message dated 5/8/2011 3:47:13 P.M. Central Daylight Time, mikew...@gilanet.com writes: Hello, Since Jason posted his discovery, 2 more pieces of fake Mifflin have been recovered. Taking into account cut loss, I think I am almost certain that I have recovered 95% of the stone that I was duped into buying. I will not be 100% certain until all of the pieces are returned to me. Even though, I have not been 100% refunded for my purchase, I feel it is important to refund people's money immediately or as fast as possible and to get this fake crap off the market and into the trash can... or maybe into a lawyer's hand! PLEASE NOTE: If you have any doubt about a Mifflin specimen you obtained from me ...PLEASE send me a photo so I can confirm one way or the other. Especially ,if it does not look like anything in the Met Bulletin below. Even if you did not get it from me, but just want a second opinion... send me the photo. Here is also a link to photos of Real Mifflin. Everything posted in the Meteoritical Bulletin entry is indeed REAL Mifflin. http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?code=52090 Best Wishes Michael Cottingham __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at
Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin Update... and Real Mifflin Photos...
Hello, Does, this mean you are not refunding customer's money now? It is clearly not Mifflin and it seems further tests is just a delay. If I am wrong in assuming this, then I apologize, but it would be best to buy these back now and get them to the trash can and out of collections. Best Wishes Michael Cottingham On May 8, 2011, at 4:38 PM, Greg Catterton wrote: The slice Jim has is the non Mifflin stone. Jim, sorry, I have tons of emails, just got to yours and sent you an email as you must have been posting this. I am reclaiming the material and will be sending a sample soon to be tested to try to confirm when this fell and just what it is. Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites --- On Sun, 5/8/11, michael cottingham mikew...@gilanet.com wrote: From: michael cottingham mikew...@gilanet.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin Update... and Real Mifflin Photos... To: jimsk...@aol.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Sunday, May 8, 2011, 6:21 PM Hello, I think the one you mentioned...is really hard to tell. Catterton did a part trade/cash deal with me and some of the trade material was REAL Mifflin that I personally found, even though you purchased it from him it might be the real deal, at least on that piece. The time frame would have to be after July 10th, because he did not have my real Mifflin until after then. Best Wishes Michael On May 8, 2011, at 4:17 PM, jimsk...@aol.com wrote: Hi Michael and list, Not all of the Mifflin photo's on the Met. Bulletin (IMCA Encyclopedia of Meteorites) are of the real thing. I have three photos there. One is a slice from Joe's main mass, another is a complete individual that I found during my five day hunt and the fake is the slice that I purchased from Greg Catterton. I contacted Greg C this morning to get my refund and have not received a response. I'll remove the photo later. If you have one that looks like this, you've been duped. Best Wishes, Jim K In a message dated 5/8/2011 3:47:13 P.M. Central Daylight Time, mikew...@gilanet.com writes: Hello, Since Jason posted his discovery, 2 more pieces of fake Mifflin have been recovered. Taking into account cut loss, I think I am almost certain that I have recovered 95% of the stone that I was duped into buying. I will not be 100% certain until all of the pieces are returned to me. Even though, I have not been 100% refunded for my purchase, I feel it is important to refund people's money immediately or as fast as possible and to get this fake crap off the market and into the trash can... or maybe into a lawyer's hand! PLEASE NOTE: If you have any doubt about a Mifflin specimen you obtained from me ...PLEASE send me a photo so I can confirm one way or the other. Especially ,if it does not look like anything in the Met Bulletin below. Even if you did not get it from me, but just want a second opinion... send me the photo. Here is also a link to photos of Real Mifflin. Everything posted in the Meteoritical Bulletin entry is indeed REAL Mifflin. http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?code=52090 Best Wishes Michael Cottingham __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin Update... and Real Mifflin Photos...
Hello List and Michael C. A huge compelling question is what the fake Mifflin really isChergach and Bassikounou have been suggested, or any popular H5 for that matter, and this relates to my intermediate topic question I posted during this thread with topic title whole stone concerns ...(I'm still interested in a detailed perspective on that as well.) Michael, 'twould be good to get the fakes analyzed asap, but I bet you're already well on your way for an answer. How weird it would be to actually be a new find? Richard Montgomery - Original Message - From: michael cottingham mikew...@gilanet.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2011 1:19 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Mifflin Update... and Real Mifflin Photos... Hello, Since Jason posted his discovery, 2 more pieces of fake Mifflin have been recovered. Taking into account cut loss, I think I am almost certain that I have recovered 95% of the stone that I was duped into buying. I will not be 100% certain until all of the pieces are returned to me. Even though, I have not been 100% refunded for my purchase, I feel it is important to refund people's money immediately or as fast as possible and to get this fake crap off the market and into the trash can... or maybe into a lawyer's hand! PLEASE NOTE: If you have any doubt about a Mifflin specimen you obtained from me ...PLEASE send me a photo so I can confirm one way or the other. Especially ,if it does not look like anything in the Met Bulletin below. Even if you did not get it from me, but just want a second opinion... send me the photo. Here is also a link to photos of Real Mifflin. Everything posted in the Meteoritical Bulletin entry is indeed REAL Mifflin. http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?code=52090 Best Wishes Michael Cottingham __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin Update... and Real Mifflin Photos...
No, I am refunding, giving credit and/or exchanges to all who got the material. While I am taking the steps needed to get 100% of the material returned to me, I still want answers that clearly have not been given... like what is this stone, when/how long ago did it fall and what it likely is. Further testing will be done, and has already been set up. I want answers and so do many others. Proper testing is the only way it can be done. I am doing the best I can to be open and honest concerning what I am doing. Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites --- On Sun, 5/8/11, michael cottingham mikew...@gilanet.com wrote: From: michael cottingham mikew...@gilanet.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin Update... and Real Mifflin Photos... To: Greg Catterton star_wars_collec...@yahoo.com Cc: jimsk...@aol.com, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Sunday, May 8, 2011, 6:58 PM Hello, Does, this mean you are not refunding customer's money now? It is clearly not Mifflin and it seems further tests is just a delay. If I am wrong in assuming this, then I apologize, but it would be best to buy these back now and get them to the trash can and out of collections. Best Wishes Michael Cottingham On May 8, 2011, at 4:38 PM, Greg Catterton wrote: The slice Jim has is the non Mifflin stone. Jim, sorry, I have tons of emails, just got to yours and sent you an email as you must have been posting this. I am reclaiming the material and will be sending a sample soon to be tested to try to confirm when this fell and just what it is. Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites --- On Sun, 5/8/11, michael cottingham mikew...@gilanet.com wrote: From: michael cottingham mikew...@gilanet.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin Update... and Real Mifflin Photos... To: jimsk...@aol.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Sunday, May 8, 2011, 6:21 PM Hello, I think the one you mentioned...is really hard to tell. Catterton did a part trade/cash deal with me and some of the trade material was REAL Mifflin that I personally found, even though you purchased it from him it might be the real deal, at least on that piece. The time frame would have to be after July 10th, because he did not have my real Mifflin until after then. Best Wishes Michael On May 8, 2011, at 4:17 PM, jimsk...@aol.com wrote: Hi Michael and list, Not all of the Mifflin photo's on the Met. Bulletin (IMCA Encyclopedia of Meteorites) are of the real thing. I have three photos there. One is a slice from Joe's main mass, another is a complete individual that I found during my five day hunt and the fake is the slice that I purchased from Greg Catterton. I contacted Greg C this morning to get my refund and have not received a response. I'll remove the photo later. If you have one that looks like this, you've been duped. Best Wishes, Jim K In a message dated 5/8/2011 3:47:13 P.M. Central Daylight Time, mikew...@gilanet.com writes: Hello, Since Jason posted his discovery, 2 more pieces of fake Mifflin have been recovered. Taking into account cut loss, I think I am almost certain that I have recovered 95% of the stone that I was duped into buying. I will not be 100% certain until all of the pieces are returned to me. Even though, I have not been 100% refunded for my purchase, I feel it is important to refund people's money immediately or as fast as possible and to get this fake crap off the market and into the trash can... or maybe into a lawyer's hand! PLEASE NOTE: If you have any doubt about a Mifflin specimen you obtained from me ...PLEASE send me a photo so I can confirm one way or the other. Especially ,if it does not look like anything in the Met Bulletin below. Even if you did not get it from me, but just want a second opinion... send me the photo. Here is also a link to photos of Real Mifflin. Everything posted in the Meteoritical Bulletin entry is indeed REAL Mifflin. http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?code=52090 Best Wishes Michael Cottingham __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin Update... and Real Mifflin Photos...
The slice Jim has is the non Mifflin stone. Jim, sorry, I have tons of emails, just got to yours and sent you an email as you must have been posting this. I am reclaiming the material and will be sending a sample soon to be tested to try to confirm when this fell and just what it is. Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites --- On Sun, 5/8/11, michael cottingham mikew...@gilanet.com wrote: From: michael cottingham mikew...@gilanet.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin Update... and Real Mifflin Photos... To: jimsk...@aol.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Sunday, May 8, 2011, 6:21 PM Hello, I think the one you mentioned...is really hard to tell. Catterton did a part trade/cash deal with me and some of the trade material was REAL Mifflin that I personally found, even though you purchased it from him it might be the real deal, at least on that piece. The time frame would have to be after July 10th, because he did not have my real Mifflin until after then. Best Wishes Michael On May 8, 2011, at 4:17 PM, jimsk...@aol.com wrote: Hi Michael and list, Not all of the Mifflin photo's on the Met. Bulletin (IMCA Encyclopedia of Meteorites) are of the real thing. I have three photos there. One is a slice from Joe's main mass, another is a complete individual that I found during my five day hunt and the fake is the slice that I purchased from Greg Catterton. I contacted Greg C this morning to get my refund and have not received a response. I'll remove the photo later. If you have one that looks like this, you've been duped. Best Wishes, Jim K In a message dated 5/8/2011 3:47:13 P.M. Central Daylight Time, mikew...@gilanet.com writes: Hello, Since Jason posted his discovery, 2 more pieces of fake Mifflin have been recovered. Taking into account cut loss, I think I am almost certain that I have recovered 95% of the stone that I was duped into buying. I will not be 100% certain until all of the pieces are returned to me. Even though, I have not been 100% refunded for my purchase, I feel it is important to refund people's money immediately or as fast as possible and to get this fake crap off the market and into the trash can... or maybe into a lawyer's hand! PLEASE NOTE: If you have any doubt about a Mifflin specimen you obtained from me ...PLEASE send me a photo so I can confirm one way or the other. Especially ,if it does not look like anything in the Met Bulletin below. Even if you did not get it from me, but just want a second opinion... send me the photo. Here is also a link to photos of Real Mifflin. Everything posted in the Meteoritical Bulletin entry is indeed REAL Mifflin. http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?code=52090 Best Wishes Michael Cottingham __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin Update... and Real Mifflin Photos...
Jim K., any chances of posting the Met. Bull photos of the wrong one here on List? Richard Montgoemry - Original Message - From: jimsk...@aol.com To: mikew...@gilanet.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2011 3:21 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin Update... and Real Mifflin Photos... Hi Michael and list, Not all of the Mifflin photo's on the Met. Bulletin (IMCA Encyclopedia of Meteorites) are of the real thing. I have three photos there. One is a slice from Joe's main mass, another is a complete individual that I found during my five day hunt and the fake is the slice that I purchased from Greg Catterton. I contacted Greg C this morning to get my refund and have not received a response. I'll remove the photo later. If you have one that looks like this, you've been duped. Best Wishes, Jim K In a message dated 5/8/2011 3:47:13 P.M. Central Daylight Time, mikew...@gilanet.com writes: Hello, Since Jason posted his discovery, 2 more pieces of fake Mifflin have been recovered. Taking into account cut loss, I think I am almost certain that I have recovered 95% of the stone that I was duped into buying. I will not be 100% certain until all of the pieces are returned to me. Even though, I have not been 100% refunded for my purchase, I feel it is important to refund people's money immediately or as fast as possible and to get this fake crap off the market and into the trash can... or maybe into a lawyer's hand! PLEASE NOTE: If you have any doubt about a Mifflin specimen you obtained from me ...PLEASE send me a photo so I can confirm one way or the other. Especially ,if it does not look like anything in the Met Bulletin below. Even if you did not get it from me, but just want a second opinion... send me the photo. Here is also a link to photos of Real Mifflin. Everything posted in the Meteoritical Bulletin entry is indeed REAL Mifflin. http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?code=52090 Best Wishes Michael Cottingham __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] ANSWER - whole stone concerns
Hello Michael, It really is not that easy. As this example illustrates, even honest dealers can be duped. I purchase meteorites from a very small list of dealers. Very small. I have done business with some for 15 years; two I started buying from this year. All have earned my complete trust. However... While I trust these dealer to not intentionally dupe me, how do I know they trust their sources and they have done their due diligence in the same way I have? As an example, I applaud Anne Black for setting the example of providing provenance for her meteorites but how am I assured the person who sold a given specimen it to Anne did what Anne and I would have done? BTW, I trust Anne. I sold some meteorites recently. I listed the dealers I purchased the meteorites from. I sold one last week that I obtained from Matt Morgan. I told the purchaser I got it from Matt. Did Matt vett his source, as I have done Matt? I don't know. Did the person before them? I don't know. BTW, I trust Matt. Remember the, what was it, sandstone dinosaur egg incident? As we can see, the chain of custody can become quite complicated. I have been concerned for a long time now about this sort of thing happening. The surprising thing to me is that it did not happen sooner. This whole incident is really getting to me. I have had it on my mind all day. -Walter Branch - Original Message - From: Michael Blood mlbl...@cox.net To: Richard Montgomery rickm...@earthlink.net; Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2011 4:53 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] ANSWER - whole stone concerns How can I be sure that any whole stone be properly labeled as classified? -- Easy, We have only been saying this on the list since The list began: Buy from a dealer known for honesty And integrity. God bless the IMCA and the hard workers of the Board BUT I do not consider an IMCA number to be The equivalent of honesty and integrity. I know an example where two new dealers applied. One was accepted The other was told to, essentially, get some more experience Under his belt. Well, I knew him personally as a person Of honor. The irony was I also knew the other dealer and That individual had attempted to increase price on me AFTER I had sent money for a new fall. Between the Two, there was no question in my mind in whom I would Have confidence. So, no, I do not consider an IMCA logo Sufficient in and of itself to guarantee authenticity. (I DO consider it sufficient to pursue action if I am defrauded, However) Additionally, failing to KNOW people who have long Standing honorable dealings - such as ET, Mike Farmer, Anne Black, Geoff Notkin, etc, etc, etc, then I would take An unknown IMCA member over an entirely unknown entity. In fact, I would not deal with an entirely unknown Entity again - unless I KNEW what I was getting was What I was paying for through other sources than the Seller. (IE I could see by looking at it, it has distinctive Features unique to that fall, the seller bought his stash From someone I know, etc). So, the answer to your question is simple: Buy only From dealers you know AND TRUST or, at the very least from IMCA members. Warm regards, Michael On 5/8/11 8:54 AM, Richard Montgomery rickm...@earthlink.net wrote: Hello List. This latest Mifflin business has me very disturbed, and brings up a question I've been meaning to ask you all for a while now: How can I be sure that any whole stone be properly labeled as classified? Of course there are obvious stones like Camel Donga, (all those that stand alone with external character)...but up until now, only my trust in reputations has allowed me to be comfortable, along with provenance and labels, chain of custody, etc. Yet, now I'll hesitate to acquire whole stones (one of my favorites is to collect wholes and stand-up-by-themselves specimens)...without knowing the back-story comes from someone with honor. I will, however, not hesitate to buy specimens from those of you whole continue to demonstrate honor. Reputations are as important as thorough classifications. This recent incident is exactly what we don't need. If there is honor anywhere, it has been demonstrated by the refundings/returns of those unfortunate to have been affected. Congrats to those of you who did. Only finding the head of the snake will put this all to rest. Or, we all carry microprobes in our backpacks. Richard Montgomery __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Teachin' a pig to dance is a waste of time and it irritates the pig Mark Twain -- 1. Whenever you're wrong, admit it, 2. Whenever you're right, shut up. Shaquille O'Neal
Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin Update... and Real Mifflin Photos...
That is some of the speculation that it may be a new find, or a planted find. Once I get some of the material returned, I am sending samples to be tested to try to help determine what it is and how long its been on Earth. Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites --- On Sun, 5/8/11, Richard Montgomery rickm...@earthlink.net wrote: From: Richard Montgomery rickm...@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin Update... and Real Mifflin Photos... To: michael cottingham mikew...@gilanet.com, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Sunday, May 8, 2011, 7:49 PM Hello List and Michael C. A huge compelling question is what the fake Mifflin really isChergach and Bassikounou have been suggested, or any popular H5 for that matter, and this relates to my intermediate topic question I posted during this thread with topic title whole stone concerns ...(I'm still interested in a detailed perspective on that as well.) Michael, 'twould be good to get the fakes analyzed asap, but I bet you're already well on your way for an answer. How weird it would be to actually be a new find? Richard Montgomery - Original Message - From: michael cottingham mikew...@gilanet.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2011 1:19 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Mifflin Update... and Real Mifflin Photos... Hello, Since Jason posted his discovery, 2 more pieces of fake Mifflin have been recovered. Taking into account cut loss, I think I am almost certain that I have recovered 95% of the stone that I was duped into buying. I will not be 100% certain until all of the pieces are returned to me. Even though, I have not been 100% refunded for my purchase, I feel it is important to refund people's money immediately or as fast as possible and to get this fake crap off the market and into the trash can... or maybe into a lawyer's hand! PLEASE NOTE: If you have any doubt about a Mifflin specimen you obtained from me ...PLEASE send me a photo so I can confirm one way or the other. Especially ,if it does not look like anything in the Met Bulletin below. Even if you did not get it from me, but just want a second opinion... send me the photo. Here is also a link to photos of Real Mifflin. Everything posted in the Meteoritical Bulletin entry is indeed REAL Mifflin. http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?code=52090 Best Wishes Michael Cottingham __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Where is everyone? Facebook?
Hi Ruben and list, I tried Facebook last year for 3 months and it bored me to tears. Big waste of time. So I ditched it. It's so sad to me that friends and family want to use internet social media to keep in touch instead of calling on the phone or visiting. That being said, there is a new social media outlet called Diaspora, FAR more secure than the insecure Facebook but it's basically in experimental phases right now. Not sure when it will go full blown to the public but it can't be far off. https://joindiaspora.com/ Regards! Tom --- http://home.roadrunner.com/~kb2sms/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin Update... and Real Mifflin Photos...
All: I seriously doubt is from a new fall. If the person that found it thought so, why would they disappear? Why would they not try and find more? Why would all the deals from it's sale be untraceable? Just too many red flags. But would be interesting to find out what it is. Greg S Sent from my iPhone On May 8, 2011, at 5:01 PM, Greg Catterton star_wars_collec...@yahoo.com wrote: That is some of the speculation that it may be a new find, or a planted find. Once I get some of the material returned, I am sending samples to be tested to try to help determine what it is and how long its been on Earth. Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites --- On Sun, 5/8/11, Richard Montgomery rickm...@earthlink.net wrote: From: Richard Montgomery rickm...@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin Update... and Real Mifflin Photos... To: michael cottingham mikew...@gilanet.com, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Sunday, May 8, 2011, 7:49 PM Hello List and Michael C. A huge compelling question is what the fake Mifflin really isChergach and Bassikounou have been suggested, or any popular H5 for that matter, and this relates to my intermediate topic question I posted during this thread with topic title whole stone concerns ...(I'm still interested in a detailed perspective on that as well.) Michael, 'twould be good to get the fakes analyzed asap, but I bet you're already well on your way for an answer. How weird it would be to actually be a new find? Richard Montgomery - Original Message - From: michael cottingham mikew...@gilanet.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2011 1:19 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Mifflin Update... and Real Mifflin Photos... Hello, Since Jason posted his discovery, 2 more pieces of fake Mifflin have been recovered. Taking into account cut loss, I think I am almost certain that I have recovered 95% of the stone that I was duped into buying. I will not be 100% certain until all of the pieces are returned to me. Even though, I have not been 100% refunded for my purchase, I feel it is important to refund people's money immediately or as fast as possible and to get this fake crap off the market and into the trash can... or maybe into a lawyer's hand! PLEASE NOTE: If you have any doubt about a Mifflin specimen you obtained from me ...PLEASE send me a photo so I can confirm one way or the other. Especially ,if it does not look like anything in the Met Bulletin below. Even if you did not get it from me, but just want a second opinion... send me the photo. Here is also a link to photos of Real Mifflin. Everything posted in the Meteoritical Bulletin entry is indeed REAL Mifflin. http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?code=52090 Best Wishes Michael Cottingham __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] POP QUIZ FRIDAYS ANSWER
Sent this earlier. Did not get posted. Thought Mount Baldr was the first. See: http://geology.cwru.edu/~amlamp/DryValleys/MBR/MBR96text.html Chris Spratt Victoria, BC (Via my iPhone) __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Off Topic - Mines open to the public around San Diego?
Hey all, sorry for this off topic post, but I thought this list's members would have the answers I seek... I am interested in finding the mines in southern California that are open to the public, selling them buckets of mine tailings or other material to hunt through looking for various precious and/or semi-precious stones. I'd appreciate it if some of you could suggest some of the better locations of this type to me, off the list. Thanks! -- Richard Kowalski Full Moon Photography IMCA #1081 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin Update... and Real Mifflin Photos...
Here you go: _http://s1122.photobucket.com/albums/l523/jimski74/?action=viewcurrent=P52100062.jpg_ (http://s1122.photobucket.com/albums/l523/jimski74/?action=viewcurrent=P52100062.jpg) Cheers, Jim Konwerski (Jim K) In a message dated 5/8/2011 7:17:56 P.M. Central Daylight Time, rickm...@earthlink.net writes: Jim K., any chances of posting the Met. Bull photos of the wrong one here on List? Richard Montgoemry - Original Message - From: jimsk...@aol.com To: mikew...@gilanet.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2011 3:21 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin Update... and Real Mifflin Photos... Hi Michael and list, Not all of the Mifflin photo's on the Met. Bulletin (IMCA Encyclopedia of Meteorites) are of the real thing. I have three photos there. One is a slice from Joe's main mass, another is a complete individual that I found during my five day hunt and the fake is the slice that I purchased from Greg Catterton. I contacted Greg C this morning to get my refund and have not received a response. I'll remove the photo later. If you have one that looks like this, you've been duped. Best Wishes, Jim K In a message dated 5/8/2011 3:47:13 P.M. Central Daylight Time, mikew...@gilanet.com writes: Hello, Since Jason posted his discovery, 2 more pieces of fake Mifflin have been recovered. Taking into account cut loss, I think I am almost certain that I have recovered 95% of the stone that I was duped into buying. I will not be 100% certain until all of the pieces are returned to me. Even though, I have not been 100% refunded for my purchase, I feel it is important to refund people's money immediately or as fast as possible and to get this fake crap off the market and into the trash can... or maybe into a lawyer's hand! PLEASE NOTE: If you have any doubt about a Mifflin specimen you obtained from me ...PLEASE send me a photo so I can confirm one way or the other. Especially ,if it does not look like anything in the Met Bulletin below. Even if you did not get it from me, but just want a second opinion... send me the photo. Here is also a link to photos of Real Mifflin. Everything posted in the Meteoritical Bulletin entry is indeed REAL Mifflin. http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?code=52090 Best Wishes Michael Cottingham __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] ANSWER - whole stone concerns
OK, I think all of you are right. Therefore, you should all send me Your entire meteorite collections - then I will be stuck with any and All fakes in your collections. Just trying to be helpful, Michael On 5/8/11 5:17 PM, Walter Branch waltbra...@bellsouth.net wrote: Hello Michael, It really is not that easy. As this example illustrates, even honest dealers can be duped. I purchase meteorites from a very small list of dealers. Very small. I have done business with some for 15 years; two I started buying from this year. All have earned my complete trust. However... While I trust these dealer to not intentionally dupe me, how do I know they trust their sources and they have done their due diligence in the same way I have? As an example, I applaud Anne Black for setting the example of providing provenance for her meteorites but how am I assured the person who sold a given specimen it to Anne did what Anne and I would have done? BTW, I trust Anne. I sold some meteorites recently. I listed the dealers I purchased the meteorites from. I sold one last week that I obtained from Matt Morgan. I told the purchaser I got it from Matt. Did Matt vett his source, as I have done Matt? I don't know. Did the person before them? I don't know. BTW, I trust Matt. Remember the, what was it, sandstone dinosaur egg incident? As we can see, the chain of custody can become quite complicated. I have been concerned for a long time now about this sort of thing happening. The surprising thing to me is that it did not happen sooner. This whole incident is really getting to me. I have had it on my mind all day. -Walter Branch - Original Message - From: Michael Blood mlbl...@cox.net To: Richard Montgomery rickm...@earthlink.net; Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2011 4:53 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] ANSWER - whole stone concerns How can I be sure that any whole stone be properly labeled as classified? -- Easy, We have only been saying this on the list since The list began: Buy from a dealer known for honesty And integrity. God bless the IMCA and the hard workers of the Board BUT I do not consider an IMCA number to be The equivalent of honesty and integrity. I know an example where two new dealers applied. One was accepted The other was told to, essentially, get some more experience Under his belt. Well, I knew him personally as a person Of honor. The irony was I also knew the other dealer and That individual had attempted to increase price on me AFTER I had sent money for a new fall. Between the Two, there was no question in my mind in whom I would Have confidence. So, no, I do not consider an IMCA logo Sufficient in and of itself to guarantee authenticity. (I DO consider it sufficient to pursue action if I am defrauded, However) Additionally, failing to KNOW people who have long Standing honorable dealings - such as ET, Mike Farmer, Anne Black, Geoff Notkin, etc, etc, etc, then I would take An unknown IMCA member over an entirely unknown entity. In fact, I would not deal with an entirely unknown Entity again - unless I KNEW what I was getting was What I was paying for through other sources than the Seller. (IE I could see by looking at it, it has distinctive Features unique to that fall, the seller bought his stash From someone I know, etc). So, the answer to your question is simple: Buy only From dealers you know AND TRUST or, at the very least from IMCA members. Warm regards, Michael On 5/8/11 8:54 AM, Richard Montgomery rickm...@earthlink.net wrote: Hello List. This latest Mifflin business has me very disturbed, and brings up a question I've been meaning to ask you all for a while now: How can I be sure that any whole stone be properly labeled as classified? Of course there are obvious stones like Camel Donga, (all those that stand alone with external character)...but up until now, only my trust in reputations has allowed me to be comfortable, along with provenance and labels, chain of custody, etc. Yet, now I'll hesitate to acquire whole stones (one of my favorites is to collect wholes and stand-up-by-themselves specimens)...without knowing the back-story comes from someone with honor. I will, however, not hesitate to buy specimens from those of you whole continue to demonstrate honor. Reputations are as important as thorough classifications. This recent incident is exactly what we don't need. If there is honor anywhere, it has been demonstrated by the refundings/returns of those unfortunate to have been affected. Congrats to those of you who did. Only finding the head of the snake will put this all to rest. Or, we all carry microprobes in our backpacks. Richard Montgomery __ Visit the Archives at
Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin Update... and Real Mifflin Photos...
I have a piece of the Mifflin in question and I for one want to commend Greg for his handling of this. He has always been more than a fair dealer to me. I have bought several from him and nothing but professional. I am in no hurry to get a refund. I would honestly like to know WHAT it is I got from him as a Mifflin, then we can work something out. I only have a small slice so we are not talking about something that will break the bank. My natural curiosity wants to know what it IS. The fact that this has been outted does not concern me that Greg will not make it right. I am willing to wait to find out the mystery. Stuart McDaniel Lawndale, NC Secr., Cleve. Co. Astronomical Society IMCA #9052 Member - KCA, KBCA, CDUSA -Original Message- From: michael cottingham Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2011 6:58 PM To: Greg Catterton Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com ; jimsk...@aol.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin Update... and Real Mifflin Photos... Hello, Does, this mean you are not refunding customer's money now? It is clearly not Mifflin and it seems further tests is just a delay. If I am wrong in assuming this, then I apologize, but it would be best to buy these back now and get them to the trash can and out of collections. Best Wishes Michael Cottingham On May 8, 2011, at 4:38 PM, Greg Catterton wrote: The slice Jim has is the non Mifflin stone. Jim, sorry, I have tons of emails, just got to yours and sent you an email as you must have been posting this. I am reclaiming the material and will be sending a sample soon to be tested to try to confirm when this fell and just what it is. Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites --- On Sun, 5/8/11, michael cottingham mikew...@gilanet.com wrote: From: michael cottingham mikew...@gilanet.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin Update... and Real Mifflin Photos... To: jimsk...@aol.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Sunday, May 8, 2011, 6:21 PM Hello, I think the one you mentioned...is really hard to tell. Catterton did a part trade/cash deal with me and some of the trade material was REAL Mifflin that I personally found, even though you purchased it from him it might be the real deal, at least on that piece. The time frame would have to be after July 10th, because he did not have my real Mifflin until after then. Best Wishes Michael On May 8, 2011, at 4:17 PM, jimsk...@aol.com wrote: Hi Michael and list, Not all of the Mifflin photo's on the Met. Bulletin (IMCA Encyclopedia of Meteorites) are of the real thing. I have three photos there. One is a slice from Joe's main mass, another is a complete individual that I found during my five day hunt and the fake is the slice that I purchased from Greg Catterton. I contacted Greg C this morning to get my refund and have not received a response. I'll remove the photo later. If you have one that looks like this, you've been duped. Best Wishes, Jim K In a message dated 5/8/2011 3:47:13 P.M. Central Daylight Time, mikew...@gilanet.com writes: Hello, Since Jason posted his discovery, 2 more pieces of fake Mifflin have been recovered. Taking into account cut loss, I think I am almost certain that I have recovered 95% of the stone that I was duped into buying. I will not be 100% certain until all of the pieces are returned to me. Even though, I have not been 100% refunded for my purchase, I feel it is important to refund people's money immediately or as fast as possible and to get this fake crap off the market and into the trash can... or maybe into a lawyer's hand! PLEASE NOTE: If you have any doubt about a Mifflin specimen you obtained from me ...PLEASE send me a photo so I can confirm one way or the other. Especially ,if it does not look like anything in the Met Bulletin below. Even if you did not get it from me, but just want a second opinion... send me the photo. Here is also a link to photos of Real Mifflin. Everything posted in the Meteoritical Bulletin entry is indeed REAL Mifflin. http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?code=52090 Best Wishes Michael Cottingham __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list
[meteorite-list] Mifflin Mud Monster
Hi Walter and List, I understand what you are saying. There are a lot of honest people out there just trying to make ends meet. I remember purchasing pieces from you and just about everybody else that was around years ago and never had to worry about what I was getting. It was nice to be naive and worry free. I can’t say this any more. This latest incident has me thinking too. I stopped chasing falls after Park Forest where I witnessed much greed and backstabbing. I would rather quietly pursue finds without all of the tension. Perhaps Jack Schrader had the right idea about keeping Arizona’s most recent fall under wraps. These high-profile chases start out well enough but end badly. The last five years have been rough. Maybe the hobby has evolved to the point where it is attracting the wrong kind of people. Self-paired stones, faked find locations, rigged silent auctions in Tucson, shameless self-promoting at the cost to others, broken promises to land owners, self-appointed spokespeople, bad press and now outright fraud have all taken their toll. It takes a lot of joy out of a once exciting avocation. As the song goes, “Everybody is searching for the next plateau.” “You make it the top and what do you find, a bucket and a mop and an illustrated book about birds.” This avocation needs to evolve in order to survive. Just talk to any American Civil War collector and you will find that the fakes have brought down the prices on legitimate artifacts. Supposedly, if you believe Carl E., now we have a faceless, nameless phantom from Mifflin defrauding the meteorite community. I will call this entity, The Mifflin Mud Monster because he has a way of muddying up the market. Happy Collecting, Adam __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin Update... and Real Mifflin Photos...
Stuart: I ended up with a piece as well and I have been looking at pics on the IMCA Encyclopedia and it looks like Chergach, an H5 that fell in 2007. Greg S From: actionshoot...@carolina.rr.com To: mikew...@gilanet.com; star_wars_collec...@yahoo.com Date: Sun, 8 May 2011 21:51:50 -0400 CC: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; jimsk...@aol.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin Update... and Real Mifflin Photos... I have a piece of the Mifflin in question and I for one want to commend Greg for his handling of this. He has always been more than a fair dealer to me. I have bought several from him and nothing but professional. I am in no hurry to get a refund. I would honestly like to know WHAT it is I got from him as a Mifflin, then we can work something out. I only have a small slice so we are not talking about something that will break the bank. My natural curiosity wants to know what it IS. The fact that this has been outted does not concern me that Greg will not make it right. I am willing to wait to find out the mystery. Stuart McDaniel Lawndale, NC Secr., Cleve. Co. Astronomical Society IMCA #9052 Member - KCA, KBCA, CDUSA -Original Message- From: michael cottingham Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2011 6:58 PM To: Greg Catterton Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com ; jimsk...@aol.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin Update... and Real Mifflin Photos... Hello, Does, this mean you are not refunding customer's money now? It is clearly not Mifflin and it seems further tests is just a delay. If I am wrong in assuming this, then I apologize, but it would be best to buy these back now and get them to the trash can and out of collections. Best Wishes Michael Cottingham On May 8, 2011, at 4:38 PM, Greg Catterton wrote: The slice Jim has is the non Mifflin stone. Jim, sorry, I have tons of emails, just got to yours and sent you an email as you must have been posting this. I am reclaiming the material and will be sending a sample soon to be tested to try to confirm when this fell and just what it is. Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites --- On Sun, 5/8/11, michael cottingham mikew...@gilanet.com wrote: From: michael cottingham mikew...@gilanet.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin Update... and Real Mifflin Photos... To: jimsk...@aol.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Sunday, May 8, 2011, 6:21 PM Hello, I think the one you mentioned...is really hard to tell. Catterton did a part trade/cash deal with me and some of the trade material was REAL Mifflin that I personally found, even though you purchased it from him it might be the real deal, at least on that piece. The time frame would have to be after July 10th, because he did not have my real Mifflin until after then. Best Wishes Michael On May 8, 2011, at 4:17 PM, jimsk...@aol.com wrote: Hi Michael and list, Not all of the Mifflin photo's on the Met. Bulletin (IMCA Encyclopedia of Meteorites) are of the real thing. I have three photos there. One is a slice from Joe's main mass, another is a complete individual that I found during my five day hunt and the fake is the slice that I purchased from Greg Catterton. I contacted Greg C this morning to get my refund and have not received a response. I'll remove the photo later. If you have one that looks like this, you've been duped. Best Wishes, Jim K In a message dated 5/8/2011 3:47:13 P.M. Central Daylight Time, mikew...@gilanet.com writes: Hello, Since Jason posted his discovery, 2 more pieces of fake Mifflin have been recovered. Taking into account cut loss, I think I am almost certain that I have recovered 95% of the stone that I was duped into buying. I will not be 100% certain until all of the pieces are returned to me. Even though, I have not been 100% refunded for my purchase, I feel it is important to refund people's money immediately or as fast as possible and to get this fake crap off the market and into the trash can... or maybe into a lawyer's hand! PLEASE NOTE: If you have any doubt about a Mifflin specimen you obtained from me ...PLEASE send me a photo so I can confirm one way or the other. Especially ,if it does not look like anything in the Met Bulletin below. Even if you did not get it from me, but just want a second opinion... send me the photo. Here is also a link to photos of Real Mifflin. Everything posted in the Meteoritical Bulletin entry is indeed REAL Mifflin. http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?code=52090 Best Wishes Michael Cottingham __ Visit the Archives at
Re: [meteorite-list] ANSWER - whole stone concerns
Well, Walter, I cannot speak for Matt, but I have found that getting complete provenance and Proof of provenance is not always all that easy. I just discussed with a collector who has been collecting for many years, but has moved several times in his life; he could tell me exactly what each piece was and who he had bought it from (and some were from Matt) but he has lost most of the paperwork. And 2 years ago I bought a whole collection (some 200 pieces) that had been boxed and stored in a closet for at least ten years. Again, some of the labels and receipts were there but not all of them, some were missing, some he just had little pieces of paper that he had handwritten and stuffed in the boxes. Since he had stopped collecting some ten years prior, much before meteorites got popular, I decided to take his word for it, but I had some of the pieces verified. So I believe I have the right stuff, but you will have to take my word for it, and you will only get my label. In other words, it is the same old story: know your dealer, and deal only with dealers you trust. Does that help? Anne M. Black _www.IMPACTIKA.com_ (http://www.IMPACTIKA.com) _IMPACTIKA@aol.com_ (mailto:impact...@aol.com) President of IMCA _www.IMCA.cc_ (http://www.IMCA.cc) In a message dated 5/8/2011 6:27:18 PM Mountain Daylight Time, waltbra...@bellsouth.net writes: Hello Michael, It really is not that easy. As this example illustrates, even honest dealers can be duped. I purchase meteorites from a very small list of dealers. Very small. I have done business with some for 15 years; two I started buying from this year. All have earned my complete trust. However... While I trust these dealer to not intentionally dupe me, how do I know they trust their sources and they have done their due diligence in the same way I have? As an example, I applaud Anne Black for setting the example of providing provenance for her meteorites but how am I assured the person who sold a given specimen it to Anne did what Anne and I would have done? BTW, I trust Anne. I sold some meteorites recently. I listed the dealers I purchased the meteorites from. I sold one last week that I obtained from Matt Morgan. I told the purchaser I got it from Matt. Did Matt vett his source, as I have done Matt? I don't know. Did the person before them? I don't know. BTW, I trust Matt. Remember the, what was it, sandstone dinosaur egg incident? As we can see, the chain of custody can become quite complicated. I have been concerned for a long time now about this sort of thing happening. The surprising thing to me is that it did not happen sooner. This whole incident is really getting to me. I have had it on my mind all day. -Walter Branch __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin Update... and Real Mifflin Photos...
That is what I am seeing, but I think I will wait on Catterton to let me know what it I for sure before I make a decision unless someone wants to trade me a real Mifflin for it. LOL. Stuart McDaniel Lawndale, NC Secr., Cleve. Co. Astronomical Society IMCA #9052 Member - KCA, KBCA, CDUSA -Original Message- From: Thunder Stone Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2011 10:04 PM To: steve ; Michael Cottingham ; greg c Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com ; jimsk...@aol.com Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Mifflin Update... and Real Mifflin Photos... Stuart: I ended up with a piece as well and I have been looking at pics on the IMCA Encyclopedia and it looks like Chergach, an H5 that fell in 2007. Greg S From: actionshoot...@carolina.rr.com To: mikew...@gilanet.com; star_wars_collec...@yahoo.com Date: Sun, 8 May 2011 21:51:50 -0400 CC: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; jimsk...@aol.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin Update... and Real Mifflin Photos... I have a piece of the Mifflin in question and I for one want to commend Greg for his handling of this. He has always been more than a fair dealer to me. I have bought several from him and nothing but professional. I am in no hurry to get a refund. I would honestly like to know WHAT it is I got from him as a Mifflin, then we can work something out. I only have a small slice so we are not talking about something that will break the bank. My natural curiosity wants to know what it IS. The fact that this has been outted does not concern me that Greg will not make it right. I am willing to wait to find out the mystery. Stuart McDaniel Lawndale, NC Secr., Cleve. Co. Astronomical Society IMCA #9052 Member - KCA, KBCA, CDUSA -Original Message- From: michael cottingham Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2011 6:58 PM To: Greg Catterton Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com ; jimsk...@aol.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin Update... and Real Mifflin Photos... Hello, Does, this mean you are not refunding customer's money now? It is clearly not Mifflin and it seems further tests is just a delay. If I am wrong in assuming this, then I apologize, but it would be best to buy these back now and get them to the trash can and out of collections. Best Wishes Michael Cottingham On May 8, 2011, at 4:38 PM, Greg Catterton wrote: The slice Jim has is the non Mifflin stone. Jim, sorry, I have tons of emails, just got to yours and sent you an email as you must have been posting this. I am reclaiming the material and will be sending a sample soon to be tested to try to confirm when this fell and just what it is. Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites --- On Sun, 5/8/11, michael cottingham mikew...@gilanet.com wrote: From: michael cottingham mikew...@gilanet.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin Update... and Real Mifflin Photos... To: jimsk...@aol.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Sunday, May 8, 2011, 6:21 PM Hello, I think the one you mentioned...is really hard to tell. Catterton did a part trade/cash deal with me and some of the trade material was REAL Mifflin that I personally found, even though you purchased it from him it might be the real deal, at least on that piece. The time frame would have to be after July 10th, because he did not have my real Mifflin until after then. Best Wishes Michael On May 8, 2011, at 4:17 PM, jimsk...@aol.com wrote: Hi Michael and list, Not all of the Mifflin photo's on the Met. Bulletin (IMCA Encyclopedia of Meteorites) are of the real thing. I have three photos there. One is a slice from Joe's main mass, another is a complete individual that I found during my five day hunt and the fake is the slice that I purchased from Greg Catterton. I contacted Greg C this morning to get my refund and have not received a response. I'll remove the photo later. If you have one that looks like this, you've been duped. Best Wishes, Jim K In a message dated 5/8/2011 3:47:13 P.M. Central Daylight Time, mikew...@gilanet.com writes: Hello, Since Jason posted his discovery, 2 more pieces of fake Mifflin have been recovered. Taking into account cut loss, I think I am almost certain that I have recovered 95% of the stone that I was duped into buying. I will not be 100% certain until all of the pieces are returned to me. Even though, I have not been 100% refunded for my purchase, I feel it is important to refund people's money immediately or as fast as possible and to get this fake crap off the market and into the trash can... or maybe into a lawyer's hand! PLEASE NOTE: If you have any doubt about a Mifflin specimen you obtained from me ...PLEASE send me a photo so I can confirm one way or the other. Especially ,if it does not look like anything in the Met Bulletin
Re: [meteorite-list] ANSWER - whole stone concerns
It's not that easy for the collector. There are some dealers out there who take offense when the collector asks about the provenance of the samples. And that includes some IMCA members as well. Mark Grossman Meteorite Manuscripts - Original Message - From: impact...@aol.com To: waltbra...@bellsouth.net; mlbl...@cox.net; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2011 10:14 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] ANSWER - whole stone concerns Well, Walter, I cannot speak for Matt, but I have found that getting complete provenance and Proof of provenance is not always all that easy. I just discussed with a collector who has been collecting for many years, but has moved several times in his life; he could tell me exactly what each piece was and who he had bought it from (and some were from Matt) but he has lost most of the paperwork. And 2 years ago I bought a whole collection (some 200 pieces) that had been boxed and stored in a closet for at least ten years. Again, some of the labels and receipts were there but not all of them, some were missing, some he just had little pieces of paper that he had handwritten and stuffed in the boxes. Since he had stopped collecting some ten years prior, much before meteorites got popular, I decided to take his word for it, but I had some of the pieces verified. So I believe I have the right stuff, but you will have to take my word for it, and you will only get my label. In other words, it is the same old story: know your dealer, and deal only with dealers you trust. Does that help? Anne M. Black _www.IMPACTIKA.com_ (http://www.IMPACTIKA.com) _IMPACTIKA@aol.com_ (mailto:impact...@aol.com) President of IMCA _www.IMCA.cc_ (http://www.IMCA.cc) In a message dated 5/8/2011 6:27:18 PM Mountain Daylight Time, waltbra...@bellsouth.net writes: Hello Michael, It really is not that easy. As this example illustrates, even honest dealers can be duped. I purchase meteorites from a very small list of dealers. Very small. I have done business with some for 15 years; two I started buying from this year. All have earned my complete trust. However... While I trust these dealer to not intentionally dupe me, how do I know they trust their sources and they have done their due diligence in the same way I have? As an example, I applaud Anne Black for setting the example of providing provenance for her meteorites but how am I assured the person who sold a given specimen it to Anne did what Anne and I would have done? BTW, I trust Anne. I sold some meteorites recently. I listed the dealers I purchased the meteorites from. I sold one last week that I obtained from Matt Morgan. I told the purchaser I got it from Matt. Did Matt vett his source, as I have done Matt? I don't know. Did the person before them? I don't know. BTW, I trust Matt. Remember the, what was it, sandstone dinosaur egg incident? As we can see, the chain of custody can become quite complicated. I have been concerned for a long time now about this sort of thing happening. The surprising thing to me is that it did not happen sooner. This whole incident is really getting to me. I have had it on my mind all day. -Walter Branch __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] ANSWER - whole stone concerns
Yes, Mark, I know, it has been discussed before and I believe that is wrong. And that goes back to what I just said: Know your dealer and buy only from dealers you trust. Anne M. Black _http://www.impactika.com/_ (http://www.impactika.com/) _IMPACTIKA@aol.com_ (mailto:impact...@aol.com) President, I.M.C.A. Inc. _http://www.imca.cc/_ (http://www.imca.cc/) In a message dated 5/8/2011 8:23:56 PM Mountain Daylight Time, mar...@westnet.com writes: It's not that easy for the collector. There are some dealers out there who take offense when the collector asks about the provenance of the samples. And that includes some IMCA members as well. Mark Grossman Meteorite Manuscripts __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] ANSWER - whole stone concerns
Anne- Does that help? No problem, thus nothing to help. and Proof of provenance is not always all that easy Which was the point of my post. -Walter - Original Message - From: impact...@aol.com To: waltbra...@bellsouth.net; mlbl...@cox.net; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2011 10:14 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] ANSWER - whole stone concerns Well, Walter, I cannot speak for Matt, but I have found that getting complete provenance and Proof of provenance is not always all that easy. I just discussed with a collector who has been collecting for many years, but has moved several times in his life; he could tell me exactly what each piece was and who he had bought it from (and some were from Matt) but he has lost most of the paperwork. And 2 years ago I bought a whole collection (some 200 pieces) that had been boxed and stored in a closet for at least ten years. Again, some of the labels and receipts were there but not all of them, some were missing, some he just had little pieces of paper that he had handwritten and stuffed in the boxes. Since he had stopped collecting some ten years prior, much before meteorites got popular, I decided to take his word for it, but I had some of the pieces verified. So I believe I have the right stuff, but you will have to take my word for it, and you will only get my label. In other words, it is the same old story: know your dealer, and deal only with dealers you trust. Does that help? Anne M. Black _www.IMPACTIKA.com_ (http://www.IMPACTIKA.com) _IMPACTIKA@aol.com_ (mailto:impact...@aol.com) President of IMCA _www.IMCA.cc_ (http://www.IMCA.cc) In a message dated 5/8/2011 6:27:18 PM Mountain Daylight Time, waltbra...@bellsouth.net writes: Hello Michael, It really is not that easy. As this example illustrates, even honest dealers can be duped. I purchase meteorites from a very small list of dealers. Very small. I have done business with some for 15 years; two I started buying from this year. All have earned my complete trust. However... While I trust these dealer to not intentionally dupe me, how do I know they trust their sources and they have done their due diligence in the same way I have? As an example, I applaud Anne Black for setting the example of providing provenance for her meteorites but how am I assured the person who sold a given specimen it to Anne did what Anne and I would have done? BTW, I trust Anne. I sold some meteorites recently. I listed the dealers I purchased the meteorites from. I sold one last week that I obtained from Matt Morgan. I told the purchaser I got it from Matt. Did Matt vett his source, as I have done Matt? I don't know. Did the person before them? I don't know. BTW, I trust Matt. Remember the, what was it, sandstone dinosaur egg incident? As we can see, the chain of custody can become quite complicated. I have been concerned for a long time now about this sort of thing happening. The surprising thing to me is that it did not happen sooner. This whole incident is really getting to me. I have had it on my mind all day. -Walter Branch __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] ANSWER - whole stone concerns
No fakes in my collection! Well that's not entirely true. Mike Gilmer recently sent me some really cool looking iron meteoerwrongs but he identified them as such! Thanks Mike. I really don't collect meteorwrongs but they are interesting in their own right. There is a thread on one of the cloudy nights forums concerning a certain book which is passed from one amateur astronomer to another. The only requirement is that the person obtaining the book send it to someone else. No money exchanges hands - just the book. Anybody want to see these iron wrongs. Just email me and I will send them along but you have to do the same for someone else. -Walter Branch - Original Message - From: Michael Blood mlbl...@cox.net To: Walter Branch waltbra...@bellsouth.net; Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2011 9:48 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] ANSWER - whole stone concerns OK, I think all of you are right. Therefore, you should all send me Your entire meteorite collections - then I will be stuck with any and All fakes in your collections. Just trying to be helpful, Michael On 5/8/11 5:17 PM, Walter Branch waltbra...@bellsouth.net wrote: Hello Michael, It really is not that easy. As this example illustrates, even honest dealers can be duped. I purchase meteorites from a very small list of dealers. Very small. I have done business with some for 15 years; two I started buying from this year. All have earned my complete trust. However... While I trust these dealer to not intentionally dupe me, how do I know they trust their sources and they have done their due diligence in the same way I have? As an example, I applaud Anne Black for setting the example of providing provenance for her meteorites but how am I assured the person who sold a given specimen it to Anne did what Anne and I would have done? BTW, I trust Anne. I sold some meteorites recently. I listed the dealers I purchased the meteorites from. I sold one last week that I obtained from Matt Morgan. I told the purchaser I got it from Matt. Did Matt vett his source, as I have done Matt? I don't know. Did the person before them? I don't know. BTW, I trust Matt. Remember the, what was it, sandstone dinosaur egg incident? As we can see, the chain of custody can become quite complicated. I have been concerned for a long time now about this sort of thing happening. The surprising thing to me is that it did not happen sooner. This whole incident is really getting to me. I have had it on my mind all day. -Walter Branch - Original Message - From: Michael Blood mlbl...@cox.net To: Richard Montgomery rickm...@earthlink.net; Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2011 4:53 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] ANSWER - whole stone concerns How can I be sure that any whole stone be properly labeled as classified? -- Easy, We have only been saying this on the list since The list began: Buy from a dealer known for honesty And integrity. God bless the IMCA and the hard workers of the Board BUT I do not consider an IMCA number to be The equivalent of honesty and integrity. I know an example where two new dealers applied. One was accepted The other was told to, essentially, get some more experience Under his belt. Well, I knew him personally as a person Of honor. The irony was I also knew the other dealer and That individual had attempted to increase price on me AFTER I had sent money for a new fall. Between the Two, there was no question in my mind in whom I would Have confidence. So, no, I do not consider an IMCA logo Sufficient in and of itself to guarantee authenticity. (I DO consider it sufficient to pursue action if I am defrauded, However) Additionally, failing to KNOW people who have long Standing honorable dealings - such as ET, Mike Farmer, Anne Black, Geoff Notkin, etc, etc, etc, then I would take An unknown IMCA member over an entirely unknown entity. In fact, I would not deal with an entirely unknown Entity again - unless I KNEW what I was getting was What I was paying for through other sources than the Seller. (IE I could see by looking at it, it has distinctive Features unique to that fall, the seller bought his stash From someone I know, etc). So, the answer to your question is simple: Buy only From dealers you know AND TRUST or, at the very least from IMCA members. Warm regards, Michael On 5/8/11 8:54 AM, Richard Montgomery rickm...@earthlink.net wrote: Hello List. This latest Mifflin business has me very disturbed, and brings up a question I've been meaning to ask you all for a while now: How can I be sure that any whole stone be properly labeled as classified? Of course there are obvious stones like Camel Donga, (all those that stand alone with external character)...but up until now, only my trust in reputations has allowed me to be comfortable,
Re: [meteorite-list] Where is everyone? Facebook?
G'Day Ruben Well you were concerned about the slowness on the Met List. Be careful what you wish for, it might come true ;-) ;-) I would officially call it active at the moment. Cheers John Cabassi IMCA # 2125 -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Ruben Garcia Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2011 5:40 PM To: Meteorite List Subject: [meteorite-list] Where is everyone? Facebook? Hi all, It has been so slow on the Met-list lately that It's making me wonder if everyone is talking meteorites somewhere else Facebook maybe? Since I deleted my FB account I don't know. -- Rock On! Ruben Garcia Website: http://www.mr-meteorite.net Articles: http://www.meteorite.com/blog/ Videos: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=meteorfright#p/u __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss
Cool, are any of those Whetstones available for sale? I hadn't heard of any found since Dec 2009. Any updates on the TKW? Any smaller pieces found? Happy hunting, Mark B. Vail, AZ - Original Message From: Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com To: Mike Hankey mike.han...@gmail.com Cc: meteorite list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sun, May 8, 2011 7:28:20 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss All of the scams lately from Kansas to Mifflin to Texas are really starting to be a blight on meteorites. Sad that these falls seem to bring out the scammers wanting to cash in. Now you all know exactly why the Whetstone Mountains meteorite fall was closely controlled and information was not published. Pieces are still being found there in great condition and without drama. Michael Farmer Michael Farmer Sent from my iPad __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Whetstones Mountain meteorite
Oops, meant to change the subject line... That's exciting news Mike! - Original Message From: Mark Bowling mina...@yahoo.com To: Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sun, May 8, 2011 8:11:20 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss Cool, are any of those Whetstones available for sale? I hadn't heard of any found since Dec 2009. Any updates on the TKW? Any smaller pieces found? Happy hunting, Mark B. Vail, AZ - Original Message From: Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com To: Mike Hankey mike.han...@gmail.com Cc: meteorite list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sun, May 8, 2011 7:28:20 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss All of the scams lately from Kansas to Mifflin to Texas are really starting to be a blight on meteorites. Sad that these falls seem to bring out the scammers wanting to cash in. Now you all know exactly why the Whetstone Mountains meteorite fall was closely controlled and information was not published. Pieces are still being found there in great condition and without drama. Michael Farmer Michael Farmer Sent from my iPad __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Whetstones Mountain meteorite
G'Day Mark Oh, a real bad. You know the subject line police are now on your trail. If I were you, I'd sleep tonight with one eye open. =)) Cheers John Cabassi IMCA # 2125 -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Mark Bowling Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2011 8:13 PM To: Mark Bowling; Michael Farmer; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Whetstones Mountain meteorite Oops, meant to change the subject line... That's exciting news Mike! - Original Message From: Mark Bowling mina...@yahoo.com To: Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sun, May 8, 2011 8:11:20 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss Cool, are any of those Whetstones available for sale? I hadn't heard of any found since Dec 2009. Any updates on the TKW? Any smaller pieces found? Happy hunting, Mark B. Vail, AZ - Original Message From: Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com To: Mike Hankey mike.han...@gmail.com Cc: meteorite list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sun, May 8, 2011 7:28:20 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss All of the scams lately from Kansas to Mifflin to Texas are really starting to be a blight on meteorites. Sad that these falls seem to bring out the scammers wanting to cash in. Now you all know exactly why the Whetstone Mountains meteorite fall was closely controlled and information was not published. Pieces are still being found there in great condition and without drama. Michael Farmer Michael Farmer Sent from my iPad __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] ANSWER - whole stone concerns
I have recieved some meteorites from list members with just the name of the meteorite hand written on a piece of paper and the weight . I WILL not mention any names because this may cause some problems on the list. It may however cause problems shold I die and the only documentation is the notes on the sample bag or box. The inside of one envelope actually had alongwith the sample in a riker box. A bunch of dirt in the envelope. The Carancas sample in the box did stick to a magnet and if it wasnt from an IMCA member I would still wonder if I had been ripped off. Cheers Steve Dunklee On Sun May 8th, 2011 10:39 PM EDT Walter Branch wrote: Anne- Does that help? No problem, thus nothing to help. and Proof of provenance is not always all that easy Which was the point of my post. -Walter - Original Message - From: impact...@aol.com To: waltbra...@bellsouth.net; mlbl...@cox.net; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2011 10:14 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] ANSWER - whole stone concerns Well, Walter, I cannot speak for Matt, but I have found that getting complete provenance and Proof of provenance is not always all that easy. I just discussed with a collector who has been collecting for many years, but has moved several times in his life; he could tell me exactly what each piece was and who he had bought it from (and some were from Matt) but he has lost most of the paperwork. And 2 years ago I bought a whole collection (some 200 pieces) that had been boxed and stored in a closet for at least ten years. Again, some of the labels and receipts were there but not all of them, some were missing, some he just had little pieces of paper that he had handwritten and stuffed in the boxes. Since he had stopped collecting some ten years prior, much before meteorites got popular, I decided to take his word for it, but I had some of the pieces verified. So I believe I have the right stuff, but you will have to take my word for it, and you will only get my label. In other words, it is the same old story: know your dealer, and deal only with dealers you trust. Does that help? Anne M. Black _www.IMPACTIKA.com_ (http://www.IMPACTIKA.com) _IMPACTIKA@aol.com_ (mailto:impact...@aol.com) President of IMCA _www.IMCA.cc_ (http://www.IMCA.cc) In a message dated 5/8/2011 6:27:18 PM Mountain Daylight Time, waltbra...@bellsouth.net writes: Hello Michael, It really is not that easy. As this example illustrates, even honest dealers can be duped. I purchase meteorites from a very small list of dealers. Very small. I have done business with some for 15 years; two I started buying from this year. All have earned my complete trust. However... While I trust these dealer to not intentionally dupe me, how do I know they trust their sources and they have done their due diligence in the same way I have? As an example, I applaud Anne Black for setting the example of providing provenance for her meteorites but how am I assured the person who sold a given specimen it to Anne did what Anne and I would have done? BTW, I trust Anne. I sold some meteorites recently. I listed the dealers I purchased the meteorites from. I sold one last week that I obtained from Matt Morgan. I told the purchaser I got it from Matt. Did Matt vett his source, as I have done Matt? I don't know. Did the person before them? I don't know. BTW, I trust Matt. Remember the, what was it, sandstone dinosaur egg incident? As we can see, the chain of custody can become quite complicated. I have been concerned for a long time now about this sort of thing happening. The surprising thing to me is that it did not happen sooner. This whole incident is really getting to me. I have had it on my mind all day. -Walter Branch __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
