Re: [meteorite-list] Birth of Asteroids and Planets. (Was: The age of Mifflin. ?470 million years? Really?)
In the case of meteorites (and asteroids and comets and planets) when molecules begin adhering to each other in a process that leads to the formation of particles, dust, grit, grains, lumps, clots, clumps, rocks, planetesimals, and so on, as far as it goes. From the moment molecules agglomerate, they become part of that body, no longer available to outside forces, except as part of a whole, and insulated from the direct effects of those outside forces (within limits and again, except as a whole). That's when the "age clock" of an object in a solar system starts ticking, when things come together. Individual atoms have ages, too. Hydrogen is as old as the universe itself, dating from the era when radiation condenses into matter, matter into particles, and particles into atoms. That's how old a hydrogen atom is. Helium's just a smidge younger than that (and deuterium) and lithium. Heavier elements are cooked in the stars that form, when they die. A hydrogen supergiant born early in the life of the universe burns through its life and blows up into heavier elements right away. But that process goes on even today. Somewhere new heavy atoms are being made right now. But the super-vast majority of elements in your body (and mine and all living things) are all old stardust from stars that died before (or as) the solar system formed, so we're all as old as the planet by the age of our atoms, even though these particular atoms didn't decide to hang out in this particular body until just a very few years ago when one cell became two and two, four... Just for a while. They'll be moving on, after a while. Sterling K. Webb -- - Original Message - From: "Meteorites USA" To: Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 12:41 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Birth of Asteroids and Planets. (Was: The age of Mifflin. ?470 million years? Really?) Sterling, List, When does "age" actually begin? Regards, Eric On 4/14/2011 10:24 PM, Sterling K. Webb wrote: It's the usual reporter scramble that results when a scientist tries to explain something more complicated than Brittany Spears or Charlie Sheen to a reporter. Mifflin's an L chondrite. John Valley and Noriko Kita have done a lot of work on the fossil L chondrites of the Ordovician period, which fell at rates 100 times greater than today's fall rates, apparently after the breakup of the L chondrite parent body sometime shortly before 470 million years ago. They must have tried to explain all this to the reporter instead being smart and saying "Yeah, it's a rock from outer space and it's really old, old as the solar system itself" and just letting it go at that. Sorta like what you would say to a five-year-old. Always a good idea to talk to reporters like they were five-year-olds. Don't try to make them handle too much. So, all of that got mushed together into this: "Scientists believe [it] was originally part of an asteroid fragment that separated 470 million years ago between Mars and Jupiter." (From the other local TV station.) Remember... Five-year-olds. Sterling K. Webb --- - Original Message - From: "Joe Kerchner" To: "meteorite list" Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 11:16 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] The age of Mifflin. ?470 million years? Really? Hello all, It the 470 million year age for the Mifflin meteorite correct? if so, isn't that very young for a meteorite? I have been under the impression that the average age of a meteorite was 4.57 Billion years old I know that's an average, but isn't 470 million way too young? Theres no way that it is so young, is there? I read that in a couple articles online today. below is a link to one of them. http://www.wisn.com/r/27539805/detail.html?source=htv Best Wishes, Joe Kerchner http://illinoismeteorites.com __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] The age of Mifflin. ?470 million years? Really?
--- On Thu, 4/14/11, Sterling K. Webb wrote: ... > Sorta like what you would say to a five-year-old. > Always a good idea to talk to reporters like they > were five-year-olds. Don't try to make them > handle too much. Actually this is true, but not just for the reporters. but the intended audience too. I've often been asked during various interviews seemingly simple questions about complex issues. Of course the answer has to be precise, involved and extended, to answer correctly, but they want a soundbite that has some punch to it. Something I'm loath to do. Even explanations I've felt are too simple are often too detailed and involved for the reporter or producer. A friend who is a local TV new personality once told me that they aim at the typical American 8 to 10 year old's education and vocabulary. I've found that when speaking with the general media, this is unfortunately just about right on target. -- Richard Kowalski Full Moon Photography IMCA #1081 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Birth of Asteroids and Planets. (Was: The age of Mifflin. ?470 million years? Really?)
Sterling, List, When does "age" actually begin? Regards, Eric On 4/14/2011 10:24 PM, Sterling K. Webb wrote: It's the usual reporter scramble that results when a scientist tries to explain something more complicated than Brittany Spears or Charlie Sheen to a reporter. Mifflin's an L chondrite. John Valley and Noriko Kita have done a lot of work on the fossil L chondrites of the Ordovician period, which fell at rates 100 times greater than today's fall rates, apparently after the breakup of the L chondrite parent body sometime shortly before 470 million years ago. They must have tried to explain all this to the reporter instead being smart and saying "Yeah, it's a rock from outer space and it's really old, old as the solar system itself" and just letting it go at that. Sorta like what you would say to a five-year-old. Always a good idea to talk to reporters like they were five-year-olds. Don't try to make them handle too much. So, all of that got mushed together into this: "Scientists believe [it] was originally part of an asteroid fragment that separated 470 million years ago between Mars and Jupiter." (From the other local TV station.) Remember... Five-year-olds. Sterling K. Webb --- - Original Message - From: "Joe Kerchner" To: "meteorite list" Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 11:16 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] The age of Mifflin. ?470 million years? Really? Hello all, It the 470 million year age for the Mifflin meteorite correct? if so, isn't that very young for a meteorite? I have been under the impression that the average age of a meteorite was 4.57 Billion years old I know that's an average, but isn't 470 million way too young? Theres no way that it is so young, is there? I read that in a couple articles online today. below is a link to one of them. http://www.wisn.com/r/27539805/detail.html?source=htv Best Wishes, Joe Kerchner http://illinoismeteorites.com __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Major California Bolide Event Breaking Story 14APR2011 ~9:25 pm
It turns out that it was an Atlas missile launch NOT a meteor as first reported. Dirk...Tokyo --- On Fri, 4/15/11, drtanuki wrote: > From: drtanuki > Subject: [meteorite-list] Major California Bolide Event Breaking Story > 14APR2011 ~9:25 pm > To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com, "Global Meteor Observing Forum" > > Date: Friday, April 15, 2011, 2:04 PM > Dear List, Breaking story: > http://lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.com/2011/04/major-california-meteor-fireball-event.html > > Dirk Ross...Tokyo > > > __ > Visit the Archives at > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] The age of Mifflin. ?470 million years? Really?
It's the usual reporter scramble that results when a scientist tries to explain something more complicated than Brittany Spears or Charlie Sheen to a reporter. Mifflin's an L chondrite. John Valley and Noriko Kita have done a lot of work on the fossil L chondrites of the Ordovician period, which fell at rates 100 times greater than today's fall rates, apparently after the breakup of the L chondrite parent body sometime shortly before 470 million years ago. They must have tried to explain all this to the reporter instead being smart and saying "Yeah, it's a rock from outer space and it's really old, old as the solar system itself" and just letting it go at that. Sorta like what you would say to a five-year-old. Always a good idea to talk to reporters like they were five-year-olds. Don't try to make them handle too much. So, all of that got mushed together into this: "Scientists believe [it] was originally part of an asteroid fragment that separated 470 million years ago between Mars and Jupiter." (From the other local TV station.) Remember... Five-year-olds. Sterling K. Webb --- - Original Message - From: "Joe Kerchner" To: "meteorite list" Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 11:16 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] The age of Mifflin. ?470 million years? Really? Hello all, It the 470 million year age for the Mifflin meteorite correct? if so, isn't that very young for a meteorite? I have been under the impression that the average age of a meteorite was 4.57 Billion years old I know that's an average, but isn't 470 million way too young? Theres no way that it is so young, is there? I read that in a couple articles online today. below is a link to one of them. http://www.wisn.com/r/27539805/detail.html?source=htv Best Wishes, Joe Kerchner http://illinoismeteorites.com __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Major California Bolide Event Breaking Story 14APR2011 ~9:25 pm
Dear List, Breaking story: http://lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.com/2011/04/major-california-meteor-fireball-event.html Dirk Ross...Tokyo __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] The age of Mifflin. ?470 million years? Really?
Hello all, It the 470 million year age for the Mifflin meteorite correct? if so, isn't that very young for a meteorite? I have been under the impression that the average age of a meteorite was 4.57 Billion years old I know that's an average, but isn't 470 million way too young? Theres no way that it is so young, is there? I read that in a couple articles online today. below is a link to one of them. http://www.wisn.com/r/27539805/detail.html?source=htv Best Wishes, Joe Kerchner http://illinoismeteorites.com __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Happy Birthday Mifflin, 1yr. almost to the minute
I just want to remind everyone what happened exactly one year ago tonight(10:05pm)CST. I have many great lasting memories from that hunt (the entire experience). I met many of the people I idolize in this community, not only did I meet them, I got to hunt with most of them. I who could forget, my 2 sons (Josh 14yrs, Joey 13yrs) being with me when I found the 332 gram "monster". Then my sons and wife met THE Steve Arnold. He and Geoff even invited us 4 out to eat with them one night, but unfortunately we had already left the area. I am going to go back next week sometime, if anyone will be in the area or interested in meeting up for a sort couple day hunt, call or email me and we can meet up 815-503-1832. I also want to thank "The All-Stars group" for accepting me into their tight knit group, it was a dream come true, can't wait until the next one we are all hunting together, maybe we will be a little more successful. Some of the guys I want to thank for helping me out and working together to find space rocks are: Tim Heitz, Larry Atkins, Sonny Clary, Karl Ashton, Reuben Garcia, Rob Wesel, Stan Walls, Mike Bandli, Jason Phillips, Greg Hupe, Michael Cottingham, Eric Whichman, Mark Hirsch, Keith Wandry, and more, I know I left others out, too many all stars to list them all. A Big Thanks to all of you guys who were there to help out a "fresh fall newbie" Best Wishes, Joe Kerchner __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Cleaning off some dust and dirt?
All, The mailman delivered my latest acquisition today, a beautiful, oriented 98% crusted 107g Millbillillie individual. It does have same nice radial flow lines that I would like to bring out when I have a change to put it in front of the camera. I would like to 'clean up' some of the red dirt/dust to accentuate these lines, but obviously I don't want to damage the specimen and hurt the value. I was wondering if anyone had suggestions on how to gently removes some of this dust/dirt from the tops of the flowlines so they are a little more clearly defined visually than they are now? A gentle wipe with a cotton ball dampened with ethanol perhaps? I know some will say don't touch it; Leave it as it is, but that's not what I am asking so please don't respond with that. I'm not looking to radically change the appearance or character of the stone, just accentuate the flow lines a little more. Thanks -- Richard Kowalski Full Moon Photography IMCA #1081 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] AD - Awesome Camel Donga, Tatahouine, Anomalous CV3, and more
Hi to all, I (like everyone else) am trying to raise some cash up. I have some really nice meteorites listed on ebay currently. Included is a NEW mesosiderite, NWA 6658 - which is a very neat meso and looks great cut or uncut. Several very nice Tatahouine up to 5g Camel Donga slices, end cuts, fragments NWA 1465 - very neat anomalous CV3 Awesome Sikhote Alin individuals. Feel free to make offers for off ebay sales. You can see my listings here: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites Thanks for looking. Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Beware - Creatures of The Desert
Hi List! With my entomological background, I can attest first-hand to the sting of the T-Hawkwhile collecting (insects) on the shores of Parymid Lake in Nevada, naturally I swept a large one into my net and my usual capture techiques escaped me as it also tried to escape me. It did; I didn't escape the sting. What I remember was akin to an electric shock...literally, that buzzing feeling...and fortunately no allergic reaction which would be akin to no water in the desert x 1000. Put me on the ground for ten minutes. [I should have had my eyes on the ground for NA blood-vesel-DNA-Martian-chondrites :)) Richard Montgomery - Original Message - From: "Adam Hupe" To: "Adam" Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 2:30 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Beware - Creatures of The Desert Jim mentioned large bugs out here. I had one of these land on my head where I squashed it. What a mess. Another time, one landed on my sandal thinking it was a tarantula. After hearing how painful a sting is from one of these bad boys, I made record time getting it off of my foot. Link to a Tarantula Hawk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5fDTABsn5Y the sting: The sting, particularly of Pesis Formosea, is among the most painful of any insect, but the intense pain only lasts for about 3 minutes. Commenting on his own experience, one researcher described the pain as "…immediate, excruciating pain that simply shuts down one's ability to do anything, except, perhaps, scream. Mental discipline simply does not work in these situations." Some victims pass out from the pain or curl up in the fetal position crying out momma. Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarantula_hawk __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Space Radar?
Hi Eric, Sorry but I'll have to be a bit blunt here. Amateurs can NOT do what is required. A decade ago it was possible for amateurs to discover main belt asteroids with typical backyard telescopes. That golden age is long gone. To just keep up with the current state of the field, an observatory needs to be able to detect moving objects fainter than 20.0V magnitude with just a minute or two exposure time. Most of the telescopes involved in the NEO survey effort today have apertures of at least 1 meter. The professional telescopes smaller than this are being excluded because they can't detect these faint NEOs were now discovering. I don't know too many amateurs who have optically "fast" 1-m telescopes in their backyard. To detect and track these smaller NEOs, the amount of light gathering power will need to increase. How many amateurs have 2-m class telescopes in their backyards? There is plenty for amateurs to do in the field of asteroid research, but discovery, even of main belters, is not one of them. Detecting NEOs is big science and it has a big price tag. There is no real way to fudge this. For those interested, I'd suggest you read the National Research Council's: _Defending Planet Earth: Near-Earth Object Surveys and Hazard Mitigation Strategies_ It can be downloaded here: http://www.nap.edu/catalog/12842.html This National Academy of Sciences report to NASA & Congress discusses exactly what would be needed to detect and follow objects down to 140-m (starting from where we are now). I've mentioned why radar is not a good option for this. Rob Matson commented on the Inverse Square Law, which alone effectively eliminates radar from being a useful technology for this task. An extremely important point that for some reason always gets forgotten or ignored is that we are NOT looking for impactors just before they hit. We want to find them years, decades or most preferably, centuries before an impact. While objects like 2008 TC3 are of very great interest to those on this list, again bluntly, there is effectively ZERO interest in a concerted effort in finding these objects before they hit, and certainly exactly zero dollars available to build a program to do this. Now obviously we continue to detect these small objects and there is scientific interest in finding more TC3s. We at CSS are looking into ways to increase our ability to detect the small "meteorite droppers", but we are mandated by our funding source, the US Congress through NASA to discover large, potentially damaging NEOs. Nothing we do to increase the discovery rate of these small objects are allowed to compromise our mandated efforts. To go from 1km to 140-m objects requires at least 4x more funding for the infrastructure and operations than the current efforts. To go down to 50-m would probably require 10x the funding the 140-m effort would cost, maybe $10,000,000,000, or about Gigabuck per year Getting down to TC3 sized objects, maybe another 10x that. 10 billion dollars a year is unlikely considering the entire NEO budget today is only around 6 million dollars per year. Of course if your desire is to go out and find meteorites after the fact, a widespread network of fireball cameras is much less expensive and much more efficient for that purpose. Cheers -- Richard Kowalski Full Moon Photography IMCA #1081 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Safety Message of the week
Well, yeh, it is mating season for some of God's creatures. Nice tail! Ted On 4/14/11 12:42 PM, "Jim Wooddell" wrote: > Oops... > > http://desertsunburn.no-ip.org/goldbasinsnake.jpg > > should work better... > > Jim > > > On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 12:40 PM, Jim Wooddell wrote: >> For the meteorite hunters - Gold Basin - Yesterday >> >> http://desertsunburn.no-ip.org/goldbasinsnakes.jpg >> >> ~2.9mb >> >> Be safe out there. >> >> Jim >> > __ > Visit the Archives at > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Space Radar?
What about IR? What about funding a public or private R&D company/group that might be able to modify existing, or create new technology for asteroid defense? A network of telescopes is a good start. We have that, and millions of amateur astronomers out there could look skyward too. How many millions could be generated by a privately funded asteroid hunting program? So radar is out for early warning? Low powered Doppler? Could space based radar be used for early Meteorite Fall prediction? Could radar used for locating smaller closer objects that might impact Earth? Regards, Eric On 4/14/2011 11:18 AM, Matson, Robert D. wrote: Hi Eric, There is one crucial aspect of the radar problem that I don't think anyone here has yet explained which is the main reason it will never (and ~should~ never) be done. It's not about money or politics or priorities. It's about geometry. Anything that a radar can do in space, passive optical detectors can do FAR, FAR better. Asteroid detection with telescopes is an inverse square law problem; asteroid detection with radars is a range to the *4th* power problem. Thus radar is useless for early warning. Where radar is VERY useful is for pinging NEOs that have already been discovered (quite likely by the Catalina Sky Survey) in order to refine the knowledge of their exact orbits. We can only do this for NEOs that come quite close to earth (due to that pesky 1/range^4 factor), and thanks to their enormous size ground-based radars will always be far more sensitive and powerful than anything we could put up in orbit. --Rob -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Meteorites USA Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 11:02 AM To: Richard A. Kowalski Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Space Radar? I've got an idea. (imagine that) ;) Since funding for space programs and missions seems to be so damned hard to get, and budget cuts usually effect the space program first. Perhaps someone should package this program/mission as a defense program. A private company seems to get a government defense contract much easier than a scientific study and research grant right? Technically this is a war of our world. We're a sitting duck in a solar system sized pond for those 140m and 1km sized objects. Anything larger than 140m can do serious damage, kill millions of people, cause hundreds of billions of dollars in damage, and damage the infrastructure of our nation to an extent it would cripple us on a national security and financial level such that's never been seen before in the history of humanity. After effects from an impact of even a 140m sized object say on Manhattan Island NY would wipe out all of downtown New York City, killing over 10 million people and destroying a world financial hub. Disease would run rampant, hospitals for hundreds of miles around would fill with the injured, and our first responder system would be overwhelmed. It was overwhelmed with 9/11. I couldn't imagine an asteroid strike. Not that an asteroid would slam New York, I'm just using that as an extreme example. The statistical chance of one hitting the Earth is very low, much less that it would impact New York. One could impact in the ocean. 75% chance of that happening right? Maybe that's why the gov isn't doing much on this? Statistics? But those statistics are only based on the ones we know about. It's the one you don't know about that gets you. The more I learn about asteroids, meteorites, and where they come from, the more I realize that there's more out there that we don't know, than we do know. It's sobering for sure. The more we search, the more we find. More eyes open looking up gives us a better chance of seeing one before it surprises us. It just boggles my mind hat the gov doesn't devote more time to this given that we are finding so many larger sized asteroids out there at an ever increasing rate. It hasn't slowed, it's increased, and as technology gets better, I'd hazard a guess that we'll find ever more. Little more than 100 years ago there was a little event in Russia that leveled thousands of square miles of forest in a remote area. Tunguska should have been a wake up call for everyone. But alas the human memory is nothing compared to the cosmic memory of the universe. 100 years is nothing in cosmic time, and we have no way to know whats out there unless we're looking up. Perhaps ignorance is bliss. Close your eyes everyone, it won't hurt much. I think people may underestimate the number of rocks out there with our name on it. Maybe I'm overestimating, but I don't think so. Sorry if this seems all doom and gloom, but the USA perhaps should fund this through both a scientific AND and defense related mission. Maybe involve the private sector since the space program is going that way anyway. Perhaps there's an industry there waiting to be born. Regar
[meteorite-list] Trying to contact Joe Kerchner & Ensisheim show
Dear List, Sorry to have to use this kind of contact. I am desperately trying to contact Joe Kerchner for a very urgent reason. Apparently he does not receive any of my numerous mails while I can read him perfectly. Possibly there is a problem with his mail box? Today, he tried to contact me through the list. I replied (him specifically) but he still can't read me. Could someone from the list help me in concacting Joe and tell him that he should try to find out a way to read my messages? But through this message I believe Joe can (finally!) read me ? Or is somebody willing me to receive my message for Joe and send him (in case it is my server that is responsible for the lack of contact) ? Thanks to all! Zelimir --- PS: for the numerous persons wanting to know the dates of Ensisheim show, here they are: Friday June 17th to Sunday 19th Theme: "NWA: the Saharan meteorites "bonanza" Lectures: 1) Mike Farmer: "Meteorite hunting in deserts: real danger" ! (you guess what will be the real topic!) 2) Guy Verlooven: "Magnetic and electric behavior of meteorites" (tentative) A detailed program will be sent soon to the List and through IMCA, as well as the link to the corresponding flyer. Personalized answers to all all applicants will follow off list. Thanks very much! Zelimir __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Beware - Creatures of The Desert
Jim mentioned large bugs out here. I had one of these land on my head where I squashed it. What a mess. Another time, one landed on my sandal thinking it was a tarantula. After hearing how painful a sting is from one of these bad boys, I made record time getting it off of my foot. Link to a Tarantula Hawk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5fDTABsn5Y the sting: The sting, particularly of Pesis Formosea, is among the most painful of any insect, but the intense pain only lasts for about 3 minutes. Commenting on his own experience, one researcher described the pain as "…immediate, excruciating pain that simply shuts down one's ability to do anything, except, perhaps, scream. Mental discipline simply does not work in these situations." Some victims pass out from the pain or curl up in the fetal position crying out momma. Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarantula_hawk __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] mifflin
List: I'm I correct in that Mifflin was the last recovered fall? Greg S. > Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2011 04:31:48 -0700 > From: stevenarnold60...@yahoo.com > To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > Subject: [meteorite-list] mifflin > > Good day list.It was one year ago today that southern wisconsin was hit by a > meteorite.Happy 1st birthday to MIFFLIN. > Steve R.Arnold, Chicago! > __ > Visit the Archives at > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Space Radar?
Let's see if this bounces... Thanks Rob. I had left out discussing the inverse square law on purpose, but you covered it well. Eric, As someone involved in the effort literally on a daily basis, I take this very seriously. It is not really hyperbole for me to say that my team and I are literally responsible for the safety of 7 billion people. Something that is in the back of my mind when I am at work. As I mentioned, we have effectively retired the threat of civilization ending and more importantly, that of an extinction level event. Score: Mammals 1, Dinosaurs 0. Sleep easy my friend, sleep easy. I certainly do. I don't want to minimize the threat of these smaller objects, but I also don't want to over inflate it either. If you feel as strongly about the subject, or any subject, contact your government officials and let them know what your priorities are. If enough voices are raised in support for a particular project, the funding is more likely to appear. As I mentioned in my first post, the United States is to my knowledge, the only country funding this effort but it should not be that way. In my humble and private opinion, other countries need to step up and take a little responsibility for this too. Of course no one ever said that this has to be funded by governments. The private sector could fund this one their own. I'd have no problem making our telescopes look like NASCAR. Cheers -- Richard Kowalski Full Moon Photography IMCA #1081 --- On Thu, 4/14/11, Matson, Robert D. wrote: > From: Matson, Robert D. > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Space Radar? > To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > Date: Thursday, April 14, 2011, 11:18 AM > Hi Eric, > > There is one crucial aspect of the radar problem that I > don't > think anyone here has yet explained which is the main > reason it > will never (and ~should~ never) be done. It's not about > money or > politics or priorities. It's about geometry. Anything that > a > radar can do in space, passive optical detectors can do > FAR, > FAR better. Asteroid detection with telescopes is an > inverse > square law problem; asteroid detection with radars is a > range > to the *4th* power problem. Thus radar is useless for > early > warning. > > Where radar is VERY useful is for pinging NEOs that have > already been discovered (quite likely by the Catalina Sky > Survey) in order to refine the knowledge of their exact > orbits. > We can only do this for NEOs that come quite close to > earth > (due to that pesky 1/range^4 factor), and thanks to their > enormous size ground-based radars will always be far more > sensitive and powerful than anything we could put up in > orbit. > > --Rob > > -Original Message- > From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] > On Behalf Of > Meteorites USA > Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 11:02 AM > To: Richard A. Kowalski > Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Space Radar? > > I've got an idea. (imagine that) ;) > > Since funding for space programs and missions seems to be > so damned hard > to get, and budget cuts usually effect the space program > first. Perhaps > someone should package this program/mission as a defense > program. A > private company seems to get a government defense contract > much easier > than a scientific study and research grant right? > > Technically this is a war of our world. We're a sitting > duck in a solar > system sized pond for those 140m and 1km sized objects. > Anything larger > than 140m can do serious damage, kill millions of people, > cause hundreds > of billions of dollars in damage, and damage the > infrastructure of our > nation to an extent it would cripple us on a national > security and > financial level such that's never been seen before in the > history of > humanity. > > After effects from an impact of even a 140m sized object > say on > Manhattan Island NY would wipe out all of downtown New York > City, > killing over 10 million people and destroying a world > financial hub. > Disease would run rampant, hospitals for hundreds of miles > around would > fill with the injured, and our first responder system would > be > overwhelmed. It was overwhelmed with 9/11. I couldn't > imagine an > asteroid strike. Not that an asteroid would slam New York, > I'm just > using that as an extreme example. The statistical chance of > one hitting > the Earth is very low, much less that it would impact New > York. One > could impact in the ocean. 75% chance of that happening > right? > > Maybe that's why the gov isn't doing much on this? > Statistics? > > But those statistics are only based on the ones we know > about. It's the > one you don't know about that gets you. > > The more I learn about asteroids, meteorites, and where > they come from, > the more I realize that there's more out there that we > don't know, than > we do know. It's sobering for sure. The more we
Re: [meteorite-list] "Death by GPS" in desert
Hi Adam, Chris, et al, Having been born in the desert I acclimated a long time ago. I recall some of the customs and practicalities I was taught by my elders and the Paiute indians native to the Mohave. Vehicles didn't have air conditioning as late as the middle sixties. It was an expensive option. I remember hanging half a dozen burlap water bags on the front of my Ford. As the water seeped into the burlap it evaporated and cooled the contents. When traveling a long stretch in Nevada with temperatures up to 125 degrees, I would strip to my T-shirt and Levis and pour water over my head. I would be soaked for only twenty minutes and then be dry as a bone. But those twenty minutes were heaven. Many cars just wouldn't operate in the summer. Once I had to jury rig a spray bar to the top of my radiator so that I could spray water to evaporate in the radiator air flow and manage the two hundred miles from Tonopah to Las Vegas. When pitching a shelter for the night we would dig six inches down in the shady outside of an arroyo where the earth would be forty degrees cooler and put up a double fly. That's two tops eight to ten inches apart. We used Mexican/Indian ollas of clay to keep beverages cool. We never went anywhere with less than five gallons of water and we filled our radiators with drinking water. No need for anti-freeze. We used "swamp coolers" in our homes. They were cheap and operated off a small electric pump dripping water from an attached reservoir over mats of excelsior straw for evaporation. They worked great when there was no humidity. And in the desert there is less than 10% humidity. I'm still puzzled as to how we kept from getting heat exhaustion as we didn't have those plastic bottles of water to carry around. I remember getting drinks from spigots and hot garden hoses and public fountains. If your going to hunt meteorites in the desert do it in the AM before Noon. Keep the sun at your back and cover your neck. Use sun screen. Wear good UV protection sun glasses. The hottest time of the day isn't high noon. It's after three o'clock in the afternoon. Drink as much water as you can. Forget about the creepy crawlies, snakes, or other poisonous wildlife. They are too smart to be out in the midday sun. Keep oriented. Tell someone where your going and what to do if your late getting back. Hunt in groups and take more than one survival equipped vehicle. Go find something. The North American Lunar Team is s leaving on expedition Saturday morning for Central Nevada. We'll share the experience when we return with America's first Lunar :0) Best regards to all, Count Deiro IMCA 3536 PS Oh Yeah!... Keep your dogs out of the hot metal beds of pick ups and off the searing pavement. Give them lots of water. I'd like to hold a guy's face to the pavement when I see them abuse animals in the deaert heat. -Original Message- >From: Adam Hupe >Sent: Apr 14, 2011 8:46 AM >To: Adam >Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] "Death by GPS" in desert > >Hi Chris and List, > >Yes, the weather is excellent 9 months out of the year, I love the desert and >you get somewhat acclimatized. I used to think 80 degrees was a little on the >warm side, now 100 degrees feels perfectly comfortable to me. I only >air-condition the house down to 84 degrees and feel I need a jacket when >coming >out of the heat. I have seen locals barbecuing over a hot grill and carrying >on >as normal when the ambient temperature was well over 120 degrees without >cracking a sweat. > >The main thing is to drink tons of water and have a good working >air-conditioner >in your car. My air-conditioner failed one time in my truck on the way back >from Las Vegas. It must have been over 160 degrees in the cab. Zann and I >suffered for about 1.5 hours. If we were not somewhat acclimatized, we >probably >would have suffered from heatstroke. It is very dangerous to travel during >the >summer and they do not broadcast heat advisories very often. It is wise to >make >sure everything is in good working order in your vehicle. I carry 6 gallons >of >water, a well stocked first-aid kit, a portable battery for jump starting >other >vehicles, spare hoses and belts. I have helped over a half-dozen people who >have broken down in the last few years. You won't last too long on the side of >the road without everybody helping each other out. > >Best Regards, > >Adam > > > > >- > >__ >Visit the Archives at >http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html >Meteorite-list mailing list >Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Safety Message of the week
Yep, we ran into a diamondback last weekend. They are out in numbers this time of year. We were hiking down two different trails when Zann radioed ahead that there is an angry sounding rattler protecting the wash she was hiking down. I laughed and asked what was the difference between a non-angry and angry sounding rattler. I hiked back her way and say that her foot-tracks were spread further apart in the sand with a magnetic cane laying near the rattlesnake where she dropped it and ran. I went to recover the cane and heard rattling coming from a bush on the bank of the wash. I have agree with her about it being angry, a diamond back can rattle real load unlike the Mojave Greens which make a constant whoosh sound. I could not see exactly where it was at first and it is very unsettling knowing this thing can spring from the bushes at any time. Do not were earphones when metal detecting or listening to music out here. We always wear Kevlar snake boots. Sometimes, you get very little warning so be careful and observant. Best Regards, Adam __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] WISE Delivers Millions of Galaxies, Stars, Asteroids
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2011-117 WISE Delivers Millions of Galaxies, Stars, Asteroids Jet Propulsion Laboratory April 14, 2011 Astronomers across the globe can now sift through hundreds of millions of galaxies, stars and asteroids collected in the first bundle of data from NASA's Wide-field Infrared Survey Explorer (WISE) mission. "Starting today thousands of new eyes will be looking at WISE data, and I expect many surprises," said Edward (Ned) Wright of UCLA, the mission's principal investigator. WISE launched into space on Dec. 14, 2009 on a mission to map the entire sky in infrared light with greatly improved sensitivity and resolution over its predecessors. From its polar orbit, it scanned the skies about one-and-a-half times while collecting images taken at four infrared wavelengths of light. It took more than 2.7 million images over the course of its mission, capturing objects ranging from faraway galaxies to asteroids relatively close to Earth. Like other infrared telescopes, WISE required coolant to chill its heat-sensitive detectors. When this frozen hydrogen coolant ran out, as expected, in early October, 2010, two of its four infrared channels were still operational. The survey was then extended for four more months, with the goal of finishing its sweep for asteroids and comets in the main asteroid belt of our solar system. The mission's nearby discoveries included 20 comets, more than 33,000 asteroids between Mars and Jupiter, and 133 near-Earth objects (NEOs), which are those asteroids and comets with orbits that come within 28 million miles (about 45 million kilometers) of Earth's path around the sun. The satellite went into hibernation in early February of this year. Today, WISE is taking the first major step in meeting its primary goal of delivering the mission's trove of objects to astronomers. Data from the first 57 percent of the sky surveyed is accessible through an online public archive. The complete survey, with improved data processing, will be made available in the spring of 2012. A predecessor to WISE, the Infrared Astronomical Satellite, served a similar role about 25 years ago, and those data are still valuable to astronomers today. Likewise, the WISE legacy is expected to endure for decades. "We are excited that the preliminary data contain millions of newfound objects," said Fengchuan Liu, the project manager for WISE at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. "But the mission is not yet over -- the real treasure is the final catalog available a year from now, which will have twice as many sources, covering the entire sky and reaching even deeper into the universe than today's release." Astronomers will use WISE's infrared data to hunt for hidden oddities, and to study trends in large populations of known objects. Survey missions often result in the unexpected discoveries too, because they are looking everywhere in the sky rather than at known targets. Data from the mission are also critical for finding the best candidates for follow-up studies with other telescopes, including the European Space Agency's Herschel observatory, which has important NASA contributions. "WISE is providing the newest-generation 'address book' of the infrared universe with the precise location and brightness of hundreds of millions of celestial objects," said Roc Cutri, lead scientist for WISE data processing at the Infrared Processing and Analysis Center at the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena, Calif. "WISE continues the long tradition of infrared sky surveys supported by Caltech, stretching back to the 1969 Two Micron Sky Survey." So far, the WISE mission has released dozens of colorful images of the cosmos, in which infrared light has been assigned colors we see with our eyes. The whole collection can be seen at http://wise.ssl.berkeley.edu/gallery_images.html . The public archive for astronomers is online at http://wise2.ipac.caltech.edu/docs/release/prelim/index.html. Instructions for astronomy enthusiasts wanting to try their hand at using the archive are at http://wise.ssl.berkeley.edu/wise_image_service.html. JPL manages and operates the Wide-field Infrared Survey Explorer for NASA's Science Mission Directorate, Washington. The principal investigator, Edward Wright, is at UCLA. The mission was competitively selected under NASA's Explorers Program managed by the Goddard Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, Md. The science instrument was built by the Space Dynamics Laboratory, Logan, Utah, and the spacecraft was built by Ball Aerospace & Technologies Corp., Boulder, Colo. Science operations and data processing take place at the Infrared Processing and Analysis Center at the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena. Caltech manages JPL for NASA. More information is online at http://www.nasa.gov/wise and http://wise.astro.ucla.edu and http://jpl.nasa.gov/wise. Whitney Clavin 818-354-4673 Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. w
Re: [meteorite-list] Safety Message of the week
Oops... http://desertsunburn.no-ip.org/goldbasinsnake.jpg should work better... Jim On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 12:40 PM, Jim Wooddell wrote: > For the meteorite hunters - Gold Basin - Yesterday > > http://desertsunburn.no-ip.org/goldbasinsnakes.jpg > > ~2.9mb > > Be safe out there. > > Jim > __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Fast-Rotating Asteroid Winks For Astronomer's Camera (Asteroid 2011 GP59)
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2011-118 Fast-Rotating Asteroid Winks For Astronomer's Camera Jet Propulsion Laboratory April 14, 2011 Video imaging of newly discovered asteroid 2011 GP59 shows the object appearing to blink on and off about once every four minutes. Amateur astronomers, including Nick James of Chelmsford, Essex, England, have captured video of the interesting object. James generated this video of GP59 on the night of Monday, April 11. The video, captured with an 11-inch Schmidt-Cassegrain telescope, is a compilation of 137 individual frames, each requiring 30 seconds of exposure. At the time, the asteroid was approximately 3,356,000 kilometers (2,081,000 mile) distant. Since then, the space rock has become something of a darling of the amateur astronomy community, with many videos available. (Here is one recent posting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7wsAZNr56E ) "Usually, when we see an asteroid strobe on and off like that, it means that the body is elongated and we are viewing it broadside along its long axis first, and then on its narrow end as it rotates ," said Don Yeomans, manager of NASA's Near-Earth Object Program Office at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, Calif. "GP59 is approximately 50 meters [240 feet] long, and we think its period of rotation is about seven-and-a-half minutes. This makes the object's brightness change every four minutes or so." 2011 GP59 was discovered the night of April 8/9 by astronomers with the Observatorio Astronomico de Mallorca in Andalusia, Spain. It will make its closest approach to Earth on April 15 at 19:09 UTC (12:09 p.m. PDT) at a distance just beyond the moon's orbit - about 533,000 kilometers (331,000 miles). "Although newly discovered, the near-term orbital location of asteroid 2011 GP59 can be accurately plotted," said Yeomans. "There is no possibility of the small space rock entering Earth's atmosphere during this pass or for the foreseeable future." NASA detects, tracks and characterizes asteroids and comets passing close to Earth using both ground- and space-based telescopes. The Near-Earth Object Observations Program, commonly called "Spaceguard," discovers these objects, characterizes a subset of them, and plots their orbits to determine if any could be potentially hazardous to our planet. JPL manages the Near-Earth Object Program Office for NASA's Science Mission Directorate in Washington. JPL is a division of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena. More information about asteroids and near-Earth objects is at: http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/asteroidwatch . DC Agle (818) 393-9011 Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. a...@jpl.nasa.gov 2011-118 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Safety Message of the week
For the meteorite hunters - Gold Basin - Yesterday http://desertsunburn.no-ip.org/goldbasinsnakes.jpg ~2.9mb Be safe out there. Jim __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] "Death by GPS" in desert
heaven forbid they take away your guns! Whats next? Meteorites? They have been known to kill cows and dogs! Over 30k people in the good ol USA were killed by infections like antibiotic resistant staff last year.and hiv aids is the leading cause of death for people under 40years. The CDC groups all accidents together to make hiv #2 . Death by being shot is like way under the top 10. Mor like no 30 yet the press keeps harping on gun deaths.the truth is hiv autos and suicide are the three major causes of death. And probably 20 per cent of the auto deaths are suicides. Like woman drives into lake and takes her kids with her. So sad! Steve On Thu Apr 14th, 2011 1:45 PM EDT Jim Wooddell wrote: >Yeah//being a volunteer is tough!! People come here from all over the >world to play for a few days and dream of living where I live >everyday. It's a tough life. Millions of Snowbirds flock here in the >winter to get away from where they live.yeah, it's tough out >herefairly clean air, 99% less idiots to deal with, freedom some >people have never known, you can actually see most all the stars at >night, And trust me some city slickers had never seen Polaris or a >satellite wiz by or a meteor. Bugs (and lots of them) the size of >b-52 bombers (okay, that's not so good), I got a swimming pool that >goes from one end of the state to the other end, big enough for my >boat! We carry guns...all sorts of tough stuff. It really is a >terrible place. >Oh...and to keep in on topicright near some really fun meteorite >hunting areas!! >It's tough...but someone has to do it. :) > >Jim > > >On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 8:18 AM, Chris Peterson >wrote: >> And you choose, voluntarily, to live in such a place? H. >> >> Chris >> >> *** >> Chris L Peterson >> Cloudbait Observatory >> http://www.cloudbait.com >> >> On 4/14/2011 9:06 AM, Adam Hupe wrote: >>> >>> Hi Jim and List, >>> >>> You are about 60 miles away and you are right about it cooling down to >>> only 110 >>> degrees at night in the Summer. A friend of mine sent me a meat >>> thermometer >>> since he could not find a temperature gauge that exceeded 120 degrees... >> >> __ >> Visit the Archives at >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >__ >Visit the Archives at >http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html >Meteorite-list mailing list >Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Space Radar?
Hi Eric, There is one crucial aspect of the radar problem that I don't think anyone here has yet explained which is the main reason it will never (and ~should~ never) be done. It's not about money or politics or priorities. It's about geometry. Anything that a radar can do in space, passive optical detectors can do FAR, FAR better. Asteroid detection with telescopes is an inverse square law problem; asteroid detection with radars is a range to the *4th* power problem. Thus radar is useless for early warning. Where radar is VERY useful is for pinging NEOs that have already been discovered (quite likely by the Catalina Sky Survey) in order to refine the knowledge of their exact orbits. We can only do this for NEOs that come quite close to earth (due to that pesky 1/range^4 factor), and thanks to their enormous size ground-based radars will always be far more sensitive and powerful than anything we could put up in orbit. --Rob -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Meteorites USA Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 11:02 AM To: Richard A. Kowalski Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Space Radar? I've got an idea. (imagine that) ;) Since funding for space programs and missions seems to be so damned hard to get, and budget cuts usually effect the space program first. Perhaps someone should package this program/mission as a defense program. A private company seems to get a government defense contract much easier than a scientific study and research grant right? Technically this is a war of our world. We're a sitting duck in a solar system sized pond for those 140m and 1km sized objects. Anything larger than 140m can do serious damage, kill millions of people, cause hundreds of billions of dollars in damage, and damage the infrastructure of our nation to an extent it would cripple us on a national security and financial level such that's never been seen before in the history of humanity. After effects from an impact of even a 140m sized object say on Manhattan Island NY would wipe out all of downtown New York City, killing over 10 million people and destroying a world financial hub. Disease would run rampant, hospitals for hundreds of miles around would fill with the injured, and our first responder system would be overwhelmed. It was overwhelmed with 9/11. I couldn't imagine an asteroid strike. Not that an asteroid would slam New York, I'm just using that as an extreme example. The statistical chance of one hitting the Earth is very low, much less that it would impact New York. One could impact in the ocean. 75% chance of that happening right? Maybe that's why the gov isn't doing much on this? Statistics? But those statistics are only based on the ones we know about. It's the one you don't know about that gets you. The more I learn about asteroids, meteorites, and where they come from, the more I realize that there's more out there that we don't know, than we do know. It's sobering for sure. The more we search, the more we find. More eyes open looking up gives us a better chance of seeing one before it surprises us. It just boggles my mind hat the gov doesn't devote more time to this given that we are finding so many larger sized asteroids out there at an ever increasing rate. It hasn't slowed, it's increased, and as technology gets better, I'd hazard a guess that we'll find ever more. Little more than 100 years ago there was a little event in Russia that leveled thousands of square miles of forest in a remote area. Tunguska should have been a wake up call for everyone. But alas the human memory is nothing compared to the cosmic memory of the universe. 100 years is nothing in cosmic time, and we have no way to know whats out there unless we're looking up. Perhaps ignorance is bliss. Close your eyes everyone, it won't hurt much. I think people may underestimate the number of rocks out there with our name on it. Maybe I'm overestimating, but I don't think so. Sorry if this seems all doom and gloom, but the USA perhaps should fund this through both a scientific AND and defense related mission. Maybe involve the private sector since the space program is going that way anyway. Perhaps there's an industry there waiting to be born. Regards, Eric __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] ot?Was death by gps. Now cold kills too
I have to make a correction. Hard to breath is what it feels like but realy you are breathing faster and harder to get more oxygen. The faster you breath the more heat and water you loose. I remember covering my face under my parka hood and burrying it in the snow to thaw out the two inches of ice that had built up on my face mask and made my goggles useless. Snow is actually an amazing insulator. Cheers! STEVE On Thu Apr 14th, 2011 1:25 PM EDT Steve Dunklee wrote: >cold can also be deadly. We know many meteorites have been found at both >poles. After spending two weeks on Mt Hood during a blizzard I wonder if there >are other unexplored cold spots for meteorites? Your breath condenses around >your mouth and nose. Your watery eyes from the wind cause tears to freeze on >your cheeks and your vision keeps getting blury because your eyes keep >frosting over. Its realy hard to breath because the air is so thin and you get >oh so tired. You get disoriented and cry for joy when the weather clears up >enough for the dustoff to come carry you off to safety. IM ONE LUCKY SOB LOL. > >On Thu Apr 14th, 2011 12:58 PM EDT Steve Dunklee wrote: > >>ouch! Yes heat is dangerous for us but to some extent it does help preserve >>meteorites. Try running a jack hammer in a 240 degree f rotary lime kiln for >>an hour or more to knock down an ash ring while your boots soles are melting >>into the floor. Or cleaning an aluminum furnace while its running and your >>face mask starts to warp from the 2000deg f while you are on an external air >>hose to keep the heat down so you can work longer. KEEP COOL! Stay safe! >>Steve >> >>On Thu Apr 14th, 2011 11:06 AM EDT Adam Hupe wrote: >> >>>Hi Jim and List, >>> >>>You are about 60 miles away and you are right about it cooling down to only >>>110 >>>degrees at night in the Summer. A friend of mine sent me a meat thermometer >>>since he could not find a temperature gauge that exceeded 120 degrees. >>> >>>The National Weather Service shaves off 10 degree during the summer when >>>reporting weather here in Laughlin. I think the real temperatures would >>>scare >>>off most people. They must have buried the Laughlin temperature gauge 20 >>>feet >>>underground in order to report these kind of readings. It is funny that the >>>reported temperature here in Laughlin is sometimes 10 degree different from >>>Bullhead City, Arizona when I can throw a rock from Laughlin, NV and hit >>>Bullhead City, Arizona. It is a joke around here that you will not see a >>>single >>>temperature gauge on the Nevada side of the Colorado River because it would >>>be >>>bad for tourism. >>> >>>I can turn off the hot tap water in my house in the Summer since the cold >>>water >>>is hot enough to shave with. It is not wise to store metal detectors and >>>electronic equipment in your garage during the summer months. All my LCDS >>>were >>>destroyed from the heat and anything that is glued will become delaminated. >>>I >>>had to replace all of the fishing line on my poles since 50 lbs test could >>>not >>>even support 1lbs after being left in the garage for a few weeks. >>> >>> >>>Be Careful, >>> >>>Adam >>>__ >>>Visit the Archives at >>>http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html >>>Meteorite-list mailing list >>>Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >>>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >>__ >>Visit the Archives at >>http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html >>Meteorite-list mailing list >>Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Space Radar?
I've got an idea. (imagine that) ;) Since funding for space programs and missions seems to be so damned hard to get, and budget cuts usually effect the space program first. Perhaps someone should package this program/mission as a defense program. A private company seems to get a government defense contract much easier than a scientific study and research grant right? Technically this is a war of our world. We're a sitting duck in a solar system sized pond for those 140m and 1km sized objects. Anything larger than 140m can do serious damage, kill millions of people, cause hundreds of billions of dollars in damage, and damage the infrastructure of our nation to an extent it would cripple us on a national security and financial level such that's never been seen before in the history of humanity. After effects from an impact of even a 140m sized object say on Manhattan Island NY would wipe out all of downtown New York City, killing over 10 million people and destroying a world financial hub. Disease would run rampant, hospitals for hundreds of miles around would fill with the injured, and our first responder system would be overwhelmed. It was overwhelmed with 9/11. I couldn't imagine an asteroid strike. Not that an asteroid would slam New York, I'm just using that as an extreme example. The statistical chance of one hitting the Earth is very low, much less that it would impact New York. One could impact in the ocean. 75% chance of that happening right? Maybe that's why the gov isn't doing much on this? Statistics? But those statistics are only based on the ones we know about. It's the one you don't know about that gets you. The more I learn about asteroids, meteorites, and where they come from, the more I realize that there's more out there that we don't know, than we do know. It's sobering for sure. The more we search, the more we find. More eyes open looking up gives us a better chance of seeing one before it surprises us. It just boggles my mind hat the gov doesn't devote more time to this given that we are finding so many larger sized asteroids out there at an ever increasing rate. It hasn't slowed, it's increased, and as technology gets better, I'd hazard a guess that we'll find ever more. Little more than 100 years ago there was a little event in Russia that leveled thousands of square miles of forest in a remote area. Tunguska should have been a wake up call for everyone. But alas the human memory is nothing compared to the cosmic memory of the universe. 100 years is nothing in cosmic time, and we have no way to know whats out there unless we're looking up. Perhaps ignorance is bliss. Close your eyes everyone, it won't hurt much. I think people may underestimate the number of rocks out there with our name on it. Maybe I'm overestimating, but I don't think so. Sorry if this seems all doom and gloom, but the USA perhaps should fund this through both a scientific AND and defense related mission. Maybe involve the private sector since the space program is going that way anyway. Perhaps there's an industry there waiting to be born. Regards, Eric On 4/14/2011 1:04 AM, Richard A. Kowalski wrote: On 4/13/2011 11:41 PM, Meteorites USA wrote: How much is the Earth worth? ;) Eric Hey Eric. I know this was a bit of a rhetorical question, but I'll add a bit more to this discussion for those who may not be familiar with the topic. Unless I missed something, the United States is the only country funding NEO surveys at this time, so apparently the "worth" of the earth, as ascribed by the rest of the world is nothing, zip, nada. At least on this topic I think you're point is probably better formed by the question "How much is our civilization or species worth?" About one month ago we had a meeting here in Tucson consisting of representatives from all of the current major NEO surveys, professional follow up observatories, other associated parties and Lindley Johnson and Don Yeomans. Don may be familiar to some of you and he is the Manager of the NEO Program Office at JPL and Lindley is the Program Officer at NASA HQ. Lindley commented that as March 1st the estimated population of NEOs 1km in diameter and larger was estimated at 940 to 1050 objects. with a total of 6938 known NEOs of all sizes. At that time we had discovered 909 1km and larger NEOs, or approximately 87 - 97% of the population. Since we were tasked at finding 90% of all NEOs in this size range, we have effectively completed the original goal of the Spaceguard program, but he did stress that "we" aren't ready to make this claim just yet. To prove the point that we aren't quite finished, I picked up another 1km object on my very first run on a telescope after the meeting. As you know the 1km diameter was chosen because it is the size object that will end our civilization and anything much larger than that will make us go extinct. The next phase has not yet star
Re: [meteorite-list] "Death by GPS" in desert
Yeah//being a volunteer is tough!! People come here from all over the world to play for a few days and dream of living where I live everyday. It's a tough life. Millions of Snowbirds flock here in the winter to get away from where they live.yeah, it's tough out herefairly clean air, 99% less idiots to deal with, freedom some people have never known, you can actually see most all the stars at night, And trust me some city slickers had never seen Polaris or a satellite wiz by or a meteor. Bugs (and lots of them) the size of b-52 bombers (okay, that's not so good), I got a swimming pool that goes from one end of the state to the other end, big enough for my boat! We carry guns...all sorts of tough stuff. It really is a terrible place. Oh...and to keep in on topicright near some really fun meteorite hunting areas!! It's tough...but someone has to do it. :) Jim On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 8:18 AM, Chris Peterson wrote: > And you choose, voluntarily, to live in such a place? H. > > Chris > > *** > Chris L Peterson > Cloudbait Observatory > http://www.cloudbait.com > > On 4/14/2011 9:06 AM, Adam Hupe wrote: >> >> Hi Jim and List, >> >> You are about 60 miles away and you are right about it cooling down to >> only 110 >> degrees at night in the Summer. A friend of mine sent me a meat >> thermometer >> since he could not find a temperature gauge that exceeded 120 degrees... > > __ > Visit the Archives at > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] ot?Was death by gps. Now cold kills too
cold can also be deadly. We know many meteorites have been found at both poles. After spending two weeks on Mt Hood during a blizzard I wonder if there are other unexplored cold spots for meteorites? Your breath condenses around your mouth and nose. Your watery eyes from the wind cause tears to freeze on your cheeks and your vision keeps getting blury because your eyes keep frosting over. Its realy hard to breath because the air is so thin and you get oh so tired. You get disoriented and cry for joy when the weather clears up enough for the dustoff to come carry you off to safety. IM ONE LUCKY SOB LOL. On Thu Apr 14th, 2011 12:58 PM EDT Steve Dunklee wrote: >ouch! Yes heat is dangerous for us but to some extent it does help preserve >meteorites. Try running a jack hammer in a 240 degree f rotary lime kiln for >an hour or more to knock down an ash ring while your boots soles are melting >into the floor. Or cleaning an aluminum furnace while its running and your >face mask starts to warp from the 2000deg f while you are on an external air >hose to keep the heat down so you can work longer. KEEP COOL! Stay safe! Steve > >On Thu Apr 14th, 2011 11:06 AM EDT Adam Hupe wrote: > >>Hi Jim and List, >> >>You are about 60 miles away and you are right about it cooling down to only >>110 >>degrees at night in the Summer. A friend of mine sent me a meat thermometer >>since he could not find a temperature gauge that exceeded 120 degrees. >> >>The National Weather Service shaves off 10 degree during the summer when >>reporting weather here in Laughlin. I think the real temperatures would >>scare >>off most people. They must have buried the Laughlin temperature gauge 20 >>feet >>underground in order to report these kind of readings. It is funny that the >>reported temperature here in Laughlin is sometimes 10 degree different from >>Bullhead City, Arizona when I can throw a rock from Laughlin, NV and hit >>Bullhead City, Arizona. It is a joke around here that you will not see a >>single >>temperature gauge on the Nevada side of the Colorado River because it would >>be >>bad for tourism. >> >>I can turn off the hot tap water in my house in the Summer since the cold >>water >>is hot enough to shave with. It is not wise to store metal detectors and >>electronic equipment in your garage during the summer months. All my LCDS >>were >>destroyed from the heat and anything that is glued will become delaminated. >>I >>had to replace all of the fishing line on my poles since 50 lbs test could >>not >>even support 1lbs after being left in the garage for a few weeks. >> >> >>Be Careful, >> >>Adam >>__ >>Visit the Archives at >>http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html >>Meteorite-list mailing list >>Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > >__ >Visit the Archives at >http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html >Meteorite-list mailing list >Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] "Death by GPS" in desert
ouch! Yes heat is dangerous for us but to some extent it does help preserve meteorites. Try running a jack hammer in a 240 degree f rotary lime kiln for an hour or more to knock down an ash ring while your boots soles are melting into the floor. Or cleaning an aluminum furnace while its running and your face mask starts to warp from the 2000deg f while you are on an external air hose to keep the heat down so you can work longer. KEEP COOL! Stay safe! Steve On Thu Apr 14th, 2011 11:06 AM EDT Adam Hupe wrote: >Hi Jim and List, > >You are about 60 miles away and you are right about it cooling down to only >110 >degrees at night in the Summer. A friend of mine sent me a meat thermometer >since he could not find a temperature gauge that exceeded 120 degrees. > >The National Weather Service shaves off 10 degree during the summer when >reporting weather here in Laughlin. I think the real temperatures would scare >off most people. They must have buried the Laughlin temperature gauge 20 >feet >underground in order to report these kind of readings. It is funny that the >reported temperature here in Laughlin is sometimes 10 degree different from >Bullhead City, Arizona when I can throw a rock from Laughlin, NV and hit >Bullhead City, Arizona. It is a joke around here that you will not see a >single >temperature gauge on the Nevada side of the Colorado River because it would be >bad for tourism. > >I can turn off the hot tap water in my house in the Summer since the cold >water >is hot enough to shave with. It is not wise to store metal detectors and >electronic equipment in your garage during the summer months. All my LCDS >were >destroyed from the heat and anything that is glued will become delaminated. I >had to replace all of the fishing line on my poles since 50 lbs test could not >even support 1lbs after being left in the garage for a few weeks. > > >Be Careful, > >Adam >__ >Visit the Archives at >http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html >Meteorite-list mailing list >Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Bonhams and provenance
Yeah, way to go Bonhams! You da Provenance-Man!! > Also, a bill of sale from an auction house is usually really good for > authenticity and provenance since auction houses are supposed to > guarentee the titles of items. > >>Most of the lots have now been changed but still one does not seem >>right..eg >> >> "A partial slice of the lunar NWA 2727 chassignite meteorite." __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] AD - Mifflin Stone - eBay Ending T-12H
Good Afternoon... Just a reminder to anyone looking for a nice Mifflin stone, I have one on eBay which closes in ~12hrs. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270732732530&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT Thanks for looking, and good luck to those who are bidding. Cheers... Ryan __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Bonhams and provenance
> Also, a bill of sale from an auction house is usually really good for > authenticity and provenance since auction houses are supposed to > guarentee the titles of items. > __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Cold Asteroids May Have A Soft Heart(AllendeMeteorite)
Hi List...I want to clarify that Elton did not specifically write me that "ALL of the largest asteroids have already been located" and I want to go on record to acknowledge this and apologize if I took his words out of context. It is an honor to read from you all! Richard Montgomery - Original Message - From: "Richard A. Kowalski" To: "Meteorite List" Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 10:00 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Cold Asteroids May Have A Soft Heart(AllendeMeteorite) [My original post from my yahoo address got bounced as spam, so I'll try it from here.] Elton, I am no expert in asteroid families, but possibly I can give a general answer and cite a paper that may be of interest while we wait for a real expert like Larry to respond. A paper that I believe should be available to all online is: "Impact origin of the Vesta family" by Erik Asphaug, published in Meteoritics & Planetary Science 32,965-980 (1997) http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10./j.1945-5100.1997.tb01584.x/pdf I'm a bit busy validating NEO candidates at the moment so can't take the time to read the entire paper, but in a nutshell Ashpaug discusses a mechanism that created the Vesta family of asteroids about 10 - 100 million years ago. While HEDs are almost certainly from Vesta the uncertainty about this comes from the fact that we are sensing the surface from great distance. When DAWN arrives, I'm sure the answer will become definitive and as I mentioned in a previous thread, we may even be able to pinpoint where some of our meteorites originated. Exciting stuff coming in the next few months to be sure! Most specifically to this question, that of other possible source parents, it is my belief that this is unlikely. The formation of the Vesta family was a major impact event. We certainly have not sampled spectroscopically every asteroid, and I'm sure that we have not yet found every member of the family, mostly due to size, brightness and circumstance. Small chunks of Vesta in earth crossing orbits, say 10 meters in diameter, the size that can drop tens of kilos on the earth's surface, are very difficult to detect. In fact something this size may only be detected a few days before impact, if at all. It is my personal opinion that all HEDs can be traced back to Vesta and most if not all "Vesta-like" V-type asteroids can be traced back to Vesta as well. More rocks coming through the pipeline, so that's all for now. Cheers -- Richard Kowalski Catalina Sky Survey Lunar and Planetary Laboratory University of Arizona http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/css/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] "Death by GPS" in desert
Working for 8 years in the Arabian desert taught me everything about safety. Water, you can never have too much in desert areas. Tucson for example 110 daily from June to august. You should Always have water, do not leave town without it as even changing a flat tire in that heat can be fatal. We always have tourists who run out of gas or get flats and then realize that a couple hours in that heat without water can kill you. We have had prime die in the city limits just hiking on A mountain without water. you overheat and go into shock then brain damage sets in when your body gets too hot. You can die in view of homes. never leave without supplies. An for the worst possible scenario and you will always do ok. Fail to plan in the southwest and you may pay with your life. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone On Apr 14, 2011, at 10:06 AM, Adam Hupe wrote: > Hi Jim and List, > > You are about 60 miles away and you are right about it cooling down to only > 110 > degrees at night in the Summer. A friend of mine sent me a meat thermometer > since he could not find a temperature gauge that exceeded 120 degrees. > > The National Weather Service shaves off 10 degree during the summer when > reporting weather here in Laughlin. I think the real temperatures would > scare > off most people. They must have buried the Laughlin temperature gauge 20 > feet > underground in order to report these kind of readings. It is funny that the > reported temperature here in Laughlin is sometimes 10 degree different from > Bullhead City, Arizona when I can throw a rock from Laughlin, NV and hit > Bullhead City, Arizona. It is a joke around here that you will not see a > single > temperature gauge on the Nevada side of the Colorado River because it would > be > bad for tourism. > > I can turn off the hot tap water in my house in the Summer since the cold > water > is hot enough to shave with. It is not wise to store metal detectors and > electronic equipment in your garage during the summer months. All my LCDS > were > destroyed from the heat and anything that is glued will become delaminated. > I > had to replace all of the fishing line on my poles since 50 lbs test could > not > even support 1lbs after being left in the garage for a few weeks. > > > Be Careful, > > Adam > __ > Visit the Archives at > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Bonhams and provenance
Graham, Yinan, Shawn and list, I enjoyed Graham's response the best. "I can't say that mixing up all their pictures/samples really instills me with confidence in a bill of sale from Bonhams!" I'm with you Graham, and I hope they got the mix-up corrected before the auctions begin or some lucky winning bidder may not be too happy down the road. I've been waiting for a response from a certain 'cough-cough' auction house since December on an item I won for more information on provenance and have given up calling the person in charge. I agree with you Yinan and you are correct that it up to the seller of the item if they want their name put down in any catalogue or online or given out at all. It's a privacy issue and many are reluctant to allow that information to be given out to the public, even to the buyer. Many people get a thrill at seeing their name in print as being the person who owned the item, but many do prefer to remain anonymous and for various reasons. Who wants the world to know you had to sell the family jewels to pay the mortgage, junior's college education and pay that new sports car off after the divorce, let alone the alimony and child support payments. Have a great day all, enjoy it, I am. Brian __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] mifflin
Good day list.It was one year ago today that southern wisconsin was hit by a meteorite.Happy 1st birthday to MIFFLIN. Steve R.Arnold, Chicago! __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Hypothetical launch question
Bill, I admit. At the risk of being wrong, I tend to believe people and take them at their word unless I have reason to believe they are lying. In this case If that did hit his roof then I think it might be a meteorite. Cat Mountain meteorite also looked like a piece of coal. And everybody and their brother told the finder that. But it was tested ( x rayed ) and found to be almost pure forsterite. If not for that knowledge it would have never been verified as a true rare meteorite. It too looked as black on the inside as the fusion crust. -- Carl or Debbie Esparza Meteoritemax bill kies wrote: > > This guy wasn't as starry eyed as others I've met. Just a family man in the > suburbs trying to figure out what the heck happened. It sure looks like > something whacked his house. He said the damage to the ceiling was caused by > the concussion to the roof above. I'm not sure what kind of roofing system he > had installed. The roof is typical of an 80 year old frame house. He said it > was just redone with some sort of rubber boot. A premium ice and water shield > I'd guess, not that it matters. > > Here are some pics with with a diagram he drew. Just another odd story. > > http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y249/razor_wire/Lombard3.jpg > > http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y249/razor_wire/Lombard2.jpg > > http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y249/razor_wire/Lombard1.jpg > > http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y249/razor_wire/Ceiling.jpg > > http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y249/razor_wire/LombDiagram.jpg > > > Thanks for the input. I'll pass it along. > > > __ > Visit the Archives at > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] "Death by GPS" in desert
Hi Chris and List, Yes, the weather is excellent 9 months out of the year, I love the desert and you get somewhat acclimatized. I used to think 80 degrees was a little on the warm side, now 100 degrees feels perfectly comfortable to me. I only air-condition the house down to 84 degrees and feel I need a jacket when coming out of the heat. I have seen locals barbecuing over a hot grill and carrying on as normal when the ambient temperature was well over 120 degrees without cracking a sweat. The main thing is to drink tons of water and have a good working air-conditioner in your car. My air-conditioner failed one time in my truck on the way back from Las Vegas. It must have been over 160 degrees in the cab. Zann and I suffered for about 1.5 hours. If we were not somewhat acclimatized, we probably would have suffered from heatstroke. It is very dangerous to travel during the summer and they do not broadcast heat advisories very often. It is wise to make sure everything is in good working order in your vehicle. I carry 6 gallons of water, a well stocked first-aid kit, a portable battery for jump starting other vehicles, spare hoses and belts. I have helped over a half-dozen people who have broken down in the last few years. You won't last too long on the side of the road without everybody helping each other out. Best Regards, Adam - __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] "Death by GPS" in desert
And you choose, voluntarily, to live in such a place? H. Chris *** Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com On 4/14/2011 9:06 AM, Adam Hupe wrote: Hi Jim and List, You are about 60 miles away and you are right about it cooling down to only 110 degrees at night in the Summer. A friend of mine sent me a meat thermometer since he could not find a temperature gauge that exceeded 120 degrees... __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] "Death by GPS" in desert
Hi Jim and List, You are about 60 miles away and you are right about it cooling down to only 110 degrees at night in the Summer. A friend of mine sent me a meat thermometer since he could not find a temperature gauge that exceeded 120 degrees. The National Weather Service shaves off 10 degree during the summer when reporting weather here in Laughlin. I think the real temperatures would scare off most people. They must have buried the Laughlin temperature gauge 20 feet underground in order to report these kind of readings. It is funny that the reported temperature here in Laughlin is sometimes 10 degree different from Bullhead City, Arizona when I can throw a rock from Laughlin, NV and hit Bullhead City, Arizona. It is a joke around here that you will not see a single temperature gauge on the Nevada side of the Colorado River because it would be bad for tourism. I can turn off the hot tap water in my house in the Summer since the cold water is hot enough to shave with. It is not wise to store metal detectors and electronic equipment in your garage during the summer months. All my LCDS were destroyed from the heat and anything that is glued will become delaminated. I had to replace all of the fishing line on my poles since 50 lbs test could not even support 1lbs after being left in the garage for a few weeks. Be Careful, Adam __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] "Death by GPS" in desert
Stories like this have been around for the last 20 years. Yep...Found few dead people in the desert over the years. By the time they are reported missing, by the time we find them they look like burnt beef jerky. It is a serious issue. Where I live, I have seen 135 degrees and we are consistently hotter than the NWS promotes as the hottest part of the countryand our temp gauges are not located anywhere close to pavement as other cities are (that claim being the hottest). We have a road here called Shea Rd. It goes from Parker to the Bill Williams River. Often, I've been out there turning people around or pulling them out of the sand because their GPS told them this was a route to take to get to Vegas or parts North. I hear, "Well my GPS told me this was the way". The bad part of the temp is that it does not cool down at night much. If it's 125 during the day, it might drop to 110 at night. Makes for tough camping if you are not sitting in the Colorado River!! Hey...for the hunters...was hunting Gold Basin yesterday, took a few nice pictures of a friendly rattlesnake that was out getting a sun tan. Be safe other there! Cheers! Jim Wooddell http://desertsunburn.no-ip.org On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 7:32 PM, Paul H. wrote: > "Death by GPS" in desert by Tom Knudson, The > Sacremento Bee, Jan. 30, 2011, > http://www.sacbee.com/2011/01/30/3362727/death-by-gps-in-desert.html > > Experts Warn of 'Death by GPS' as More People Visit > Remote Wildernesses, FoxNews.com,February 04, 2011 > http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/02/04/death-gps-rise/?test=faces > > Using GPS Navigation - http://www.nps.gov/deva/planyourvisit/directions.htm > > yours, > > Paul H. > __ > Visit the Archives at > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] For your enjoyment
OMG!! WoW!!! That is awesome. -- Stuart McDaniel Lawndale, NC IMCA#9052 http://www.facebook.com/Stuart.McDaniel.No.1 Shawn Alan wrote: = Listers Feast your eyes on a 2.57 gram Nakhla, crusted from the British Museum. Courtesy by The Count http://www.flickr.com/photos/48262799@N03/5617680275/ Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBaystore http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Hypothetical launch question
Still sounds fishy to me. I don't see how it hit the roof hard enought to make plaster fall from "concussion" 2.5' away and didn't make a hole?? Concussion felt 2.5' away that is enought to do damage is a pretty strong force. Also looks like a lump of coal to me -- Stuart McDaniel Lawndale, NC IMCA#9052 http://www.facebook.com/Stuart.McDaniel.No.1 bill kies wrote: = This guy wasn't as starry eyed as others I've met. Just a family man in the suburbs trying to figure out what the heck happened. It sure looks like something whacked his house. He said the damage to the ceiling was caused by the concussion to the roof above. I'm not sure what kind of roofing system he had installed. The roof is typical of an 80 year old frame house. He said it was just redone with some sort of rubber boot. A premium ice and water shield I'd guess, not that it matters. Here are some pics with with a diagram he drew. Just another odd story. http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y249/razor_wire/Lombard3.jpg http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y249/razor_wire/Lombard2.jpg http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y249/razor_wire/Lombard1.jpg http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y249/razor_wire/Ceiling.jpg http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y249/razor_wire/LombDiagram.jpg Thanks for the input. I'll pass it along. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Bonhams and provenance
I can't say that mixing up all their pictures/samples really instills me with confidence in a bill of sale from Bonhams! Graham On 14 April 2011 04:47, Shawn Alan wrote: > Yinan > > I would have to agree the bill of sale from a world renowned auction house > says it all. > > Shawn Alan > IMCA 1633 > eBaystore > http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html > > > > > Bonhams and provenance > Yinan Wang veomega at gmail.com > Wed Apr 13 23:37:14 EDT 2011 > > Previous message: [meteorite-list] Bonhams and provenance > Next message: [meteorite-list] AD - 7.00 g 'Moss' CO3 fall -World's no.1 > hammer stone -NO RESERVE! > Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] > > > Hi List, > > Thought I'd chime in on this subject since I'm in the auction industry. > > Privacy (and anonymity) is one of the principles of the auction > industry. The consignor or direct previous owner is kept private > unless they wish to be recognized, at which point it is up to a > department's director whether or not to include them in the > description of an item. Well recognized provenance, such as from The > British Museum, or Nininger, would normally be shown in the > description while the direct previous owner or consignor will not be > unless it is agreed upon. > > Of course a potential buyer can certainly ask to be put in contact > with the previous owner, but it's up to the consignor whether or not > they want to respond. > > Also, a bill of sale from an auction house is usually really good for > authenticity and provenance since auction houses are supposed to > guarentee the titles of items. > > -Yinan > > > > On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 11:19 AM, wrote: > >> That is a heckuva good question, John. > >> > >> I've contacted Bonhams about provenance on lots I've won and was told by the >> head guy that they do not release information about the consignor, but they >> would send an email on my behalf. So far, no consignor has responded. > >> > >> Sometimes Bonhams will state the name of the collection from which an item >> came and I've tried direct contact based on that info, to no avail. > >> > >> I am currently negotating the sale of a piece and the potential buyer is >> insistant on documentation, which I have been unable to get. Very >> frustrating, especially from an auction house. One would think they would >> live or die on provenance, especially for items that cost a bunch. > >> > >> Paul Swartz > >> > >>> I have a question about the exceedingly rare meteorites in question. > >>> Why does Bonhams devalue these meteorites by stripping them of their >>> provenance > >>> and chain of ownership history? Why are they being sold without the >>> supporting > >>> information of where they originated from? It does not seem to be in the >>> best > >>> interest of the buyer > >>> > >>> Best Regards, > >>> John Higgins > >> __ > >> Visit the Archives at >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > >> Meteorite-list mailing list > >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > >> > > > > > > Previous message: [meteorite-list] Bonhams and provenance > Next message: [meteorite-list] AD - 7.00 g 'Moss' CO3 fall -World's no.1 > hammer stone -NO RESERVE! > Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] > > > More information about the Meteorite-list mailing list > > __ > Visit the Archives at > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Space Radar? (Was: Cold Asteroids May Have A Soft Heart)
Hello Eric, Will radar even work in space? If so, what's the range, and how would it work? Radar does indeed work in space. The Gemini mission used radar to practice spacecraft rendezvous in preparation for the Apollo lunar landings. As well, with the actual landings, radar was used during the descent and ascent phases. It was the ascent radar being accidentally switched on which caused the infamous 1201 and 1202 alarms during the descent phase of Apollo 11. As to the economy of using space-based radar to search for NEOs. As others have pointed out, nahhh. -Walter. - Original Message - From: "Meteorites USA" To: Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 1:15 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Space Radar? (Was: Cold Asteroids May Have A Soft Heart) Richard, List, Since smaller meteoroids and asteroids are nearly undetectable in space, and we're currently searching optically with telescopes. Is it possible to detect meteoroids/asteroids with space based radar? Will radar even work in space? If so, what's the range, and how would it work? Do we have something like this? I know we have space based weather radar satellites, but what about pointing them into empty space to search for asteroids? Sorry if this is a dumb question... Just curious. Regards, Eric On 4/13/2011 10:00 PM, Richard A. Kowalski wrote: Small chunks of Vesta in earth crossing orbits, say 10 meters in diameter, the size that can drop tens of kilos on the earth's surface, are very difficult to detect. In fact something this size may only be detected a few days before impact, if at all. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] OH PA WV MD NJ Meteor 11:35 pm 13APR2011
OH PA WV MD NJ Meteor 11:35 pm 13APR2011 http://lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.com/2011/04/baltimore-md-meteor-1135-pm-13apr2011.html __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] (Test)
Test (sorry, please delete) Zelimir __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Space Radar?
On 4/13/2011 11:41 PM, Meteorites USA wrote: How much is the Earth worth? ;) Eric Hey Eric. I know this was a bit of a rhetorical question, but I'll add a bit more to this discussion for those who may not be familiar with the topic. Unless I missed something, the United States is the only country funding NEO surveys at this time, so apparently the "worth" of the earth, as ascribed by the rest of the world is nothing, zip, nada. At least on this topic I think you're point is probably better formed by the question "How much is our civilization or species worth?" About one month ago we had a meeting here in Tucson consisting of representatives from all of the current major NEO surveys, professional follow up observatories, other associated parties and Lindley Johnson and Don Yeomans. Don may be familiar to some of you and he is the Manager of the NEO Program Office at JPL and Lindley is the Program Officer at NASA HQ. Lindley commented that as March 1st the estimated population of NEOs 1km in diameter and larger was estimated at 940 to 1050 objects. with a total of 6938 known NEOs of all sizes. At that time we had discovered 909 1km and larger NEOs, or approximately 87 - 97% of the population. Since we were tasked at finding 90% of all NEOs in this size range, we have effectively completed the original goal of the Spaceguard program, but he did stress that "we" aren't ready to make this claim just yet. To prove the point that we aren't quite finished, I picked up another 1km object on my very first run on a telescope after the meeting. As you know the 1km diameter was chosen because it is the size object that will end our civilization and anything much larger than that will make us go extinct. The next phase has not yet started, despite the claims in the media last yet that we are already failing behind in the task. Kinda confusing how anyone can claim we are behind in accomplishing a task that we haven't been given the go ahead to start, but we've recently seen you have to take the media with a grain or two of salt... Anyway, the new goal reduces the minimum size to 140 meters in diameter and this was chosen for a number of reasons, not the least of which is objects this size can cause substantial damage and death on national scales. If this next phase is funded, something not certain at the moment, it should take 10 to 15 years to complete as well. Of course again ground based surveys can do it with the lowest monetary expense, but at a cost of taking longer to accomplish the task. An important issue for issue for any ground based survey is that we are literally blinded by the Sun. Because of this we can't see objects that forever stay on the daylight side of our planet. To "see" in to this blind spot in our coverage will require a space based system, but not one that uses radar. A proposed IR telescope would the Sun not too far out from Venus, looking back towards the earth. This proposed mission would be able to detect all of these 140 meter objects that threaten us, but it would still require the use of ground based observatories for support and follow up observations, so it makes sense to build ground based systems first. It's been estimated that ground based systems would cost aa much as a 1/4 Gigabuck to build and operate for a decade or so, while the space based system alone would be at least 1/2 Gigabuck. Combine the two and figure on a bit of cost over-runs and $1,000,000,000 for all of Phase 2 spread over 10 or 15 years is not unreasonable. One final thing; A disclaimer. As I mentioned in a previous post, I am using my work email to post only because the list server barfed on my yahoo address earlier tonight. Nothing posted here is in any way an official statement from NASA, the University of Arizona, the Lunar and Planetary Laboratory or the Catalina Sky Survey. This and other posts are my own somewhat informed opinion and should in no way misconstrued as "official" in any way. -- Richard Kowalski Catalina Sky Survey Lunar and Planetary Laboratory University of Arizona http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/css/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - April 14, 2011
Smoke in the chondrulforest. Breathtaking. Best regards, Matthias - Original Message - From: "Michael Johnson" To: Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 5:49 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - April 14,2011 http://www.rocksfromspace.org/April_14_2011.html - __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Hinweis von ESET Smart Security, Signaturdatenbank-Version 6039 (20110413) __ E-Mail wurde geprüft mit ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __ Hinweis von ESET Smart Security, Signaturdatenbank-Version 6039 (20110413) __ E-Mail wurde geprüft mit ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] article request: Alderman on Australian Craters
Unfortunately the archives of the Mineralogical Society are temporarily not available. Perhaps someone can point me to a source or help me with a digital copy of Mineralogical Magazine, 1932, vol. 23 (March), pp. 19-32, it’s the article by Alderman on 'Meteorite Craters' I’m looking for. Sorry to bother you, and thanks for your help in advance Svend www.meteorite-recon.com __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Hypothetical launch question
This guy wasn't as starry eyed as others I've met. Just a family man in the suburbs trying to figure out what the heck happened. It sure looks like something whacked his house. He said the damage to the ceiling was caused by the concussion to the roof above. I'm not sure what kind of roofing system he had installed. The roof is typical of an 80 year old frame house. He said it was just redone with some sort of rubber boot. A premium ice and water shield I'd guess, not that it matters. Here are some pics with with a diagram he drew. Just another odd story. http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y249/razor_wire/Lombard3.jpg http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y249/razor_wire/Lombard2.jpg http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y249/razor_wire/Lombard1.jpg http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y249/razor_wire/Ceiling.jpg http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y249/razor_wire/LombDiagram.jpg Thanks for the input. I'll pass it along. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
