Re: [meteorite-list] iron meteorite natural color
Hello, Removal of rust with Naval Jelly will leave it black and it is non abrasive. Carl -- Love & Life MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> wrote: > As hinted to by Marcin, putting a false surface on a meteorite is anything > except natural! It would not be an authentic surface. You could as well > electroplate it with gold. Cleaning on the other hand removed the natural > surface. IMO if you clean it and get bare metal, it is best to learn to like > the surface. If it is too bright, rub it in a little mineral oil under the > assumption that it is for 'protection' and removable anytime. That can > darken it. Happy Holidays Doug -Original Message- From: Francesco Moser via Meteorite-list <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> To: Meteorite-list <Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> Sent: Thu, Nov 24, 2016 10:49 am Subject: [meteorite-list] iron meteorite natural color Hello, I have a question.As we know an iron meteorite, such like Campo del Cielo for example, have a black surface.I have here a deeply rusted Campo, I'm planning to remove rust with a sand blasting process.But with this I will obtain a greysh surface, like naked iron, the same color of a slice.Not really a natural color for the exterior of an iron meteorite and also not aestetically pretty, looks too artificial for me.There is something to do for restore the original black color?Or it's better to remove the rust with a traditional steel brush, maybe with a drill ???Tips for mechanical or chemical process are welkomme!!!I can try with the classical NaOh bath, I have also Phosphoric, Citric and Oxalic acid :)ThanksxxFrancesco---Questa e-mail è stata controllata per individuare virus con Avast antivirus.https://www.avast.com/antivirus__Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.comMeteorite-list mailing listMeteorite-list@meteoritecentral.comhttps://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] iron meteorite natural color
As hinted to by Marcin, putting a false surface on a meteorite is anything except natural! It would not be an authentic surface. You could as well electroplate it with gold. Cleaning on the other hand removed the natural surface. IMO if you clean it and get bare metal, it is best to learn to like the surface. If it is too bright, rub it in a little mineral oil under the assumption that it is for 'protection' and removable anytime. That can darken it. Happy Holidays Doug -Original Message- From: Francesco Moser via Meteorite-list <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> To: Meteorite-list <Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> Sent: Thu, Nov 24, 2016 10:49 am Subject: [meteorite-list] iron meteorite natural color Hello, I have a question.As we know an iron meteorite, such like Campo del Cielo for example, have a black surface.I have here a deeply rusted Campo, I'm planning to remove rust with a sand blasting process.But with this I will obtain a greysh surface, like naked iron, the same color of a slice.Not really a natural color for the exterior of an iron meteorite and also not aestetically pretty, looks too artificial for me.There is something to do for restore the original black color?Or it's better to remove the rust with a traditional steel brush, maybe with a drill ???Tips for mechanical or chemical process are welkomme!!!I can try with the classical NaOh bath, I have also Phosphoric, Citric and Oxalic acid :)ThanksxxFrancesco---Questa e-mail è stata controllata per individuare virus con Avast antivirus.https://www.avast.com/antivirus__Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.comMeteorite-list mailing listMeteorite-list@meteoritecentral.comhttps://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] iron meteorite natural color
For the ultimate oriented-look, dear Marcin, it might be recommendable to use a chainsaw. Am 24.11.2016 um 23:42 schrieb Marcin Cimała - POLANDMET via Meteorite-list: Hello, I have a question. As we know an iron meteorite, such like Campo del Cielo for example, have a black surface. I have here a deeply rusted Campo, I'm planning to remove rust with a sand blasting process. But with this I will obtain a greysh surface, like naked iron, the same color of a slice. Not really a natural color for the exterior of an iron meteorite and also not aestetically pretty, looks too artificial for me. There is something to do for restore the original black color? Or it's better to remove the rust with a traditional steel brush, maybe with a drill ??? Tips for mechanical or chemical process are welkomme!!! I can try with the classical NaOh bath, I have also Phosphoric, Citric and Oxalic acid :) Thanks xx Francesco Hah good question Francesco. But what is natural color of meteorite at all ? Desert sandblasted NWA is not a real looking meteorite? Should I paint them black to be looking like a real meteorites ? Poor Dhofars This is what Im fighting long time. Strange stereotype that meteorite MUST BE BLACK outside, WHY ? When You like Your girlfrend ? When he smile to You with his pretty face or when she put ton of Max Factor chemicals on it?? I have always strange taste, different than most of collectors. For me, if specimen have crust must be black or black with rusty patina. If meteorite have no more crust like Campo, why to "paint" it to black to looks like Sikhote ? Then You will see paint, not Your meteorite. I only can imagine what strange things they do to clean Campo and look it like that. LOL OK now a few tips. As I understand Your Campo is a complete specimen ? To remove deep rust You must use electrochemical cleaning + brush + small hammer. Then You will get mostly cleaned meteorite with BLACK remains of rust that will make Your meteorite looks REAL.Then heat it and put alot of oil to make it looks fresh and oriented :) -[ MARCIN CIMALA ][ +48 793567667 ]- http://www.Meteoryty.pl marcin(at)meteoryty.pl http://www.PolandMET.com marcin(at)polandmet.com [ Member of Polish Meteoritical Society ] __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] iron meteorite natural color
Hello, I have a question. As we know an iron meteorite, such like Campo del Cielo for example, have a black surface. I have here a deeply rusted Campo, I'm planning to remove rust with a sand blasting process. But with this I will obtain a greysh surface, like naked iron, the same color of a slice. Not really a natural color for the exterior of an iron meteorite and also not aestetically pretty, looks too artificial for me. There is something to do for restore the original black color? Or it's better to remove the rust with a traditional steel brush, maybe with a drill ??? Tips for mechanical or chemical process are welkomme!!! I can try with the classical NaOh bath, I have also Phosphoric, Citric and Oxalic acid :) Thanks xx Francesco Hah good question Francesco. But what is natural color of meteorite at all ? Desert sandblasted NWA is not a real looking meteorite? Should I paint them black to be looking like a real meteorites ? Poor Dhofars This is what Im fighting long time. Strange stereotype that meteorite MUST BE BLACK outside, WHY ? When You like Your girlfrend ? When he smile to You with his pretty face or when she put ton of Max Factor chemicals on it?? I have always strange taste, different than most of collectors. For me, if specimen have crust must be black or black with rusty patina. If meteorite have no more crust like Campo, why to "paint" it to black to looks like Sikhote ? Then You will see paint, not Your meteorite. I only can imagine what strange things they do to clean Campo and look it like that. LOL OK now a few tips. As I understand Your Campo is a complete specimen ? To remove deep rust You must use electrochemical cleaning + brush + small hammer. Then You will get mostly cleaned meteorite with BLACK remains of rust that will make Your meteorite looks REAL.Then heat it and put alot of oil to make it looks fresh and oriented :) -[ MARCIN CIMALA ][ +48 793567667 ]- http://www.Meteoryty.pl marcin(at)meteoryty.pl http://www.PolandMET.com marcin(at)polandmet.com [ Member of Polish Meteoritical Society ] __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] iron meteorite natural color
Hello, I have a question. As we know an iron meteorite, such like Campo del Cielo for example, have a black surface. I have here a deeply rusted Campo, I'm planning to remove rust with a sand blasting process. But with this I will obtain a greysh surface, like naked iron, the same color of a slice. Not really a natural color for the exterior of an iron meteorite and also not aestetically pretty, looks too artificial for me. There is something to do for restore the original black color? Or it's better to remove the rust with a traditional steel brush, maybe with a drill ??? Tips for mechanical or chemical process are welkomme!!! I can try with the classical NaOh bath, I have also Phosphoric, Citric and Oxalic acid :) Thanks xx Francesco --- Questa e-mail è stata controllata per individuare virus con Avast antivirus. https://www.avast.com/antivirus __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] iron meteorite
Yep, Looks like a Campo. Cheers, E.T. __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] iron meteorite cooling rates and Meteorite Men
On last night's Meteorite Men show, the narrator was attempting to explain that the Widmanstatten pattern is caused by kamacite and taenite cooling at different rates. This is incorrect. How could two intergrown metal grains buried deep inside a core cool at different rates? The Widmanstatten pattern forms in the following manner: (1) At high temperatures (but below the solidus), metallic Fe-Ni exists as a single phase -- taenite. (2) As the metal cools, it eventually reaches the two-phase field (or solvus) on the phase diagram. For metal containing 90% iron and 10% nickel, it reaches this boundary when temperatures cool to about 700ºC. (3) At this point, small kamacite grains nucleate inside the taenite. With continued cooling, the kamacite grains grow larger at the expense of taenite, but both phases become richer in nickel. This is possible because the low-Ni phase (kamacite) is becoming increasingly abundant. (4) At low temperatures, say 400ºC or so, diffusion becomes so sluggish that the reaction essentially stops. These meteorites are called octohedrites because solids have three-dimensional structures and the kamacite planes are oriented with respect to each other in the same way as the faces of a regular octahedron. Alan Rubin Institute of Geophysics and Planetary Physics University of California 3845 Slichter Hall 603 Charles Young Dr. E Los Angeles, CA 90095-1567 phone: 310-825-3202 e-mail: aeru...@ucla.edu website: http://cosmochemists.igpp.ucla.edu/Rubin.html __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] iron meteorite cooling rates and Meteorite Men
Thank you Dr. Rubin for that explanation. As a collector of mostly iron meteorites, I've always been fascinated with the various types of etch patterns. My question is, how many years does it take to cool per degree in the vacuum of space? Secondly, what determines the structure from fine to course.is it just the nickel content or does the cooling rate have anything to do with it? Thanks in advance...Arlene - Original Message - From: Alan Rubin aeru...@ucla.edu To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2010 9:54 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] iron meteorite cooling rates and Meteorite Men On last night's Meteorite Men show, the narrator was attempting to explain that the Widmanstatten pattern is caused by kamacite and taenite cooling at different rates. This is incorrect. How could two intergrown metal grains buried deep inside a core cool at different rates? The Widmanstatten pattern forms in the following manner: (1) At high temperatures (but below the solidus), metallic Fe-Ni exists as a single phase -- taenite. (2) As the metal cools, it eventually reaches the two-phase field (or solvus) on the phase diagram. For metal containing 90% iron and 10% nickel, it reaches this boundary when temperatures cool to about 700ºC. (3) At this point, small kamacite grains nucleate inside the taenite. With continued cooling, the kamacite grains grow larger at the expense of taenite, but both phases become richer in nickel. This is possible because the low-Ni phase (kamacite) is becoming increasingly abundant. (4) At low temperatures, say 400ºC or so, diffusion becomes so sluggish that the reaction essentially stops. These meteorites are called octohedrites because solids have three-dimensional structures and the kamacite planes are oriented with respect to each other in the same way as the faces of a regular octahedron. Alan Rubin Institute of Geophysics and Planetary Physics University of California 3845 Slichter Hall 603 Charles Young Dr. E Los Angeles, CA 90095-1567 phone: 310-825-3202 e-mail: aeru...@ucla.edu website: http://cosmochemists.igpp.ucla.edu/Rubin.html __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] iron meteorite cooling rates and Meteorite Men
If you don't mind my offering a possible answer to this part: what determines the structure from fine to course.I would say it is the width of the kamacite bands. Someone will probably correct me on that though. Mike in CO On Dec 15, 2010, at 11:31 AM, Arlene Schlazer wrote: Thank you Dr. Rubin for that explanation. As a collector of mostly iron meteorites, I've always been fascinated with the various types of etch patterns. My question is, how many years does it take to cool per degree in the vacuum of space? Secondly, what determines the structure from fine to course.is it just the nickel content or does the cooling rate have anything to do with it? Thanks in advance...Arlene - Original Message - From: Alan Rubin aeru...@ucla.edu To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2010 9:54 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] iron meteorite cooling rates and Meteorite Men On last night's Meteorite Men show, the narrator was attempting to explain that the Widmanstatten pattern is caused by kamacite and taenite cooling at different rates. This is incorrect. How could two intergrown metal grains buried deep inside a core cool at different rates? The Widmanstatten pattern forms in the following manner: (1) At high temperatures (but below the solidus), metallic Fe-Ni exists as a single phase -- taenite. (2) As the metal cools, it eventually reaches the two-phase field (or solvus) on the phase diagram. For metal containing 90% iron and 10% nickel, it reaches this boundary when temperatures cool to about 700ºC. (3) At this point, small kamacite grains nucleate inside the taenite. With continued cooling, the kamacite grains grow larger at the expense of taenite, but both phases become richer in nickel. This is possible because the low-Ni phase (kamacite) is becoming increasingly abundant. (4) At low temperatures, say 400ºC or so, diffusion becomes so sluggish that the reaction essentially stops. These meteorites are called octohedrites because solids have three-dimensional structures and the kamacite planes are oriented with respect to each other in the same way as the faces of a regular octahedron. Alan Rubin Institute of Geophysics and Planetary Physics University of California 3845 Slichter Hall 603 Charles Young Dr. E Los Angeles, CA 90095-1567 phone: 310-825-3202 e-mail: aeru...@ucla.edu website: http://cosmochemists.igpp.ucla.edu/Rubin.html __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] iron meteorite cooling rates and Meteorite Men
I misread your question. Sorry, it is the nickel and cooling rate On Dec 15, 2010, at 11:31 AM, Arlene Schlazer wrote: Thank you Dr. Rubin for that explanation. As a collector of mostly iron meteorites, I've always been fascinated with the various types of etch patterns. My question is, how many years does it take to cool per degree in the vacuum of space? Secondly, what determines the structure from fine to course.is it just the nickel content or does the cooling rate have anything to do with it? Thanks in advance...Arlene - Original Message - From: Alan Rubin aeru...@ucla.edu To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2010 9:54 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] iron meteorite cooling rates and Meteorite Men On last night's Meteorite Men show, the narrator was attempting to explain that the Widmanstatten pattern is caused by kamacite and taenite cooling at different rates. This is incorrect. How could two intergrown metal grains buried deep inside a core cool at different rates? The Widmanstatten pattern forms in the following manner: (1) At high temperatures (but below the solidus), metallic Fe-Ni exists as a single phase -- taenite. (2) As the metal cools, it eventually reaches the two-phase field (or solvus) on the phase diagram. For metal containing 90% iron and 10% nickel, it reaches this boundary when temperatures cool to about 700ºC. (3) At this point, small kamacite grains nucleate inside the taenite. With continued cooling, the kamacite grains grow larger at the expense of taenite, but both phases become richer in nickel. This is possible because the low-Ni phase (kamacite) is becoming increasingly abundant. (4) At low temperatures, say 400ºC or so, diffusion becomes so sluggish that the reaction essentially stops. These meteorites are called octohedrites because solids have three-dimensional structures and the kamacite planes are oriented with respect to each other in the same way as the faces of a regular octahedron. Alan Rubin Institute of Geophysics and Planetary Physics University of California 3845 Slichter Hall 603 Charles Young Dr. E Los Angeles, CA 90095-1567 phone: 310-825-3202 e-mail: aeru...@ucla.edu website: http://cosmochemists.igpp.ucla.edu/Rubin.html __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] iron meteorite cooling rates and Meteorite Men
Dr. Rubin said ...the narrator was attempting to explain that the Widmanstatten pattern is caused by... And, of course, Dr, Rubin's very succinct correcting explanation is, by the standards of today's media, three paragraphs too long. The time and space requirements of electronic and print media prevent intelligible descriptions of scientific processes. How many times have we seen, or heard, ridiculous and missleading accounts made by reporters and pundits based on their refusal to use sweat equity to get some facts straight? I found this only to true whilst trying to describe the physical reasons for an airplane to have had a stall/spin crash to a reporter for a local television station. The story came out that the plane's motor had stalled and stopped the plane in midair causing it to fall to the ground. I had said nothing of the kind. There was a time when major media employed experts in the sciences, so that what was published had some veracity. Now, restraints in time and money and a what the hell...this stuff is too complicated attitude. leave the public in their ignorance. Happy Holidays to all...and thank you Dr. Rubin. Count Deiro IMCA 3536 -Original Message- From: Alan Rubin aeru...@ucla.edu Sent: Dec 15, 2010 9:54 AM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] iron meteorite cooling rates and Meteorite Men On last night's Meteorite Men show, the narrator was attempting to explain that the Widmanstatten pattern is caused by kamacite and taenite cooling at different rates. This is incorrect. How could two intergrown metal grains buried deep inside a core cool at different rates? The Widmanstatten pattern forms in the following manner: (1) At high temperatures (but below the solidus), metallic Fe-Ni exists as a single phase -- taenite. (2) As the metal cools, it eventually reaches the two-phase field (or solvus) on the phase diagram. For metal containing 90% iron and 10% nickel, it reaches this boundary when temperatures cool to about 700ºC. (3) At this point, small kamacite grains nucleate inside the taenite. With continued cooling, the kamacite grains grow larger at the expense of taenite, but both phases become richer in nickel. This is possible because the low-Ni phase (kamacite) is becoming increasingly abundant. (4) At low temperatures, say 400ºC or so, diffusion becomes so sluggish that the reaction essentially stops. These meteorites are called octohedrites because solids have three-dimensional structures and the kamacite planes are oriented with respect to each other in the same way as the faces of a regular octahedron. Alan Rubin Institute of Geophysics and Planetary Physics University of California 3845 Slichter Hall 603 Charles Young Dr. E Los Angeles, CA 90095-1567 phone: 310-825-3202 e-mail: aeru...@ucla.edu website: http://cosmochemists.igpp.ucla.edu/Rubin.html __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] iron meteorite cooling rates and Meteorite Men
The iron meteorite cooling rates generally range from about 1 - 100ºC/Myr. The reason for such slow rates is that the metal cores are buried deeply within silicate mantles and heat cannot readily escape. The coarseness of the Widmanstatten pattern is a function of cooling rate -- more slowly cooled irons will develop thicker kamacite lamellae. But there are two other factors that govern the coarseness of the structure -- the Ni concentration and the nucleation temperature. The lower the Ni concentration in the metal, the more kamacite will develop upon cooling. Metal that begins to nucleate at a higher temperature will have a longer period within which kamacite can grow. Alan Rubin Institute of Geophysics and Planetary Physics University of California 3845 Slichter Hall 603 Charles Young Dr. E Los Angeles, CA 90095-1567 phone: 310-825-3202 e-mail: aeru...@ucla.edu website: http://cosmochemists.igpp.ucla.edu/Rubin.html __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] iron meteorite cooling rates and Meteorite Men
Hi List. (ot a chemist, me, just a collector, not ametorologist, just a passionate meteorite guy. This is mostly a question from Allan's post just now: I was always under the impression that iron meteorites resulted from colliding differentiated parent-bodies, and that the crystallization sequence was achieved after an impact that exposed a core, molten NiFe suddenly ejected into space without the shield of its former silicate mantle. Am I way off base? Does Thompson structure develope within? - Original Message - From: Alan Rubin aeru...@ucla.edu To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2010 4:21 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] iron meteorite cooling rates and Meteorite Men The iron meteorite cooling rates generally range from about 1 - 100ºC/Myr. The reason for such slow rates is that the metal cores are buried deeply within silicate mantles and heat cannot readily escape. The coarseness of the Widmanstatten pattern is a function of cooling rate -- more slowly cooled irons will develop thicker kamacite lamellae. But there are two other factors that govern the coarseness of the structure -- the Ni concentration and the nucleation temperature. The lower the Ni concentration in the metal, the more kamacite will develop upon cooling. Metal that begins to nucleate at a higher temperature will have a longer period within which kamacite can grow. Alan Rubin Institute of Geophysics and Planetary Physics University of California 3845 Slichter Hall 603 Charles Young Dr. E Los Angeles, CA 90095-1567 phone: 310-825-3202 e-mail: aeru...@ucla.edu website: http://cosmochemists.igpp.ucla.edu/Rubin.html __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] iron meteorite cooling rates and Meteorite Men
Magmatic iron meteorites (including the large IIIAB group) are thought to have formed by fractional crystallization within the cores of differentiated asteroids, layered by silicate mantles. Asteroidal collisions can eventually expose the cores (which in many or most cases have already crystallized) and send some of the pieces on their way to the inner solar system. Nonmagmatic irons (such as IAB) are more controversial. Some think that they also formed in cores; others that they formed as metal melt pools at the bottoms of impact craters on chondritic asteroids. Alan Rubin Institute of Geophysics and Planetary Physics University of California 3845 Slichter Hall 603 Charles Young Dr. E Los Angeles, CA 90095-1567 phone: 310-825-3202 e-mail: aeru...@ucla.edu website: http://cosmochemists.igpp.ucla.edu/Rubin.html - Original Message - From: Richard Montgomery rickm...@earthlink.net To: Alan Rubin aeru...@ucla.edu; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2010 4:47 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] iron meteorite cooling rates and Meteorite Men Hi List. (ot a chemist, me, just a collector, not ametorologist, just a passionate meteorite guy. This is mostly a question from Allan's post just now: I was always under the impression that iron meteorites resulted from colliding differentiated parent-bodies, and that the crystallization sequence was achieved after an impact that exposed a core, molten NiFe suddenly ejected into space without the shield of its former silicate mantle. Am I way off base? Does Thompson structure develope within? - Original Message - From: Alan Rubin aeru...@ucla.edu To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2010 4:21 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] iron meteorite cooling rates and Meteorite Men The iron meteorite cooling rates generally range from about 1 - 100ºC/Myr. The reason for such slow rates is that the metal cores are buried deeply within silicate mantles and heat cannot readily escape. The coarseness of the Widmanstatten pattern is a function of cooling rate -- more slowly cooled irons will develop thicker kamacite lamellae. But there are two other factors that govern the coarseness of the structure -- the Ni concentration and the nucleation temperature. The lower the Ni concentration in the metal, the more kamacite will develop upon cooling. Metal that begins to nucleate at a higher temperature will have a longer period within which kamacite can grow. Alan Rubin Institute of Geophysics and Planetary Physics University of California 3845 Slichter Hall 603 Charles Young Dr. E Los Angeles, CA 90095-1567 phone: 310-825-3202 e-mail: aeru...@ucla.edu website: http://cosmochemists.igpp.ucla.edu/Rubin.html __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Iron meteorite inclusion question
Hi everyone, simple question: In an iron meteorite, when etched, what do the troilite and schreibersite inclusions look like? I have a slice of canyon diablo and I'm seeing dark round nodules (the troilite) and silvery dendritic material (schreibersite?). Which is which? Thanks, Yinan __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Iron meteorite inclusion question
Hi Yinan, The dark inclusions could be graphite. Troilite often has a brassy coloration to it. Do you have a photo of the slice? Best regards, MikeG On 8/19/10, Yinan Wang veom...@gmail.com wrote: Hi everyone, simple question: In an iron meteorite, when etched, what do the troilite and schreibersite inclusions look like? I have a slice of canyon diablo and I'm seeing dark round nodules (the troilite) and silvery dendritic material (schreibersite?). Which is which? Thanks, Yinan __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites http://www.galactic-stone.com http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Iron meteorite inclusion question
Here's a rough picture of the slice, any suggestions? http://pics.livejournal.com/thefossiladdict/pic/000axxf0 -Yinan On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 7:43 PM, Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Yinan, The dark inclusions could be graphite. Troilite often has a brassy coloration to it. Do you have a photo of the slice? Best regards, MikeG On 8/19/10, Yinan Wang veom...@gmail.com wrote: Hi everyone, simple question: In an iron meteorite, when etched, what do the troilite and schreibersite inclusions look like? I have a slice of canyon diablo and I'm seeing dark round nodules (the troilite) and silvery dendritic material (schreibersite?). Which is which? Thanks, Yinan __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites http://www.galactic-stone.com http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Iron meteorite inclusion question
Wang, Very nice specimen. Wish it was in my cabinet. In your first message you had the descriptions of the inclusions correct. Best regards, Count Deiro IMCA 3536 -Original Message- From: Yinan Wang veom...@gmail.com Sent: Aug 19, 2010 8:58 PM To: Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com Cc: METEORITE LIST meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Iron meteorite inclusion question Here's a rough picture of the slice, any suggestions? http://pics.livejournal.com/thefossiladdict/pic/000axxf0 -Yinan On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 7:43 PM, Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Yinan, The dark inclusions could be graphite. Troilite often has a brassy coloration to it. Do you have a photo of the slice? Best regards, MikeG On 8/19/10, Yinan Wang veom...@gmail.com wrote: Hi everyone, simple question: In an iron meteorite, when etched, what do the troilite and schreibersite inclusions look like? I have a slice of canyon diablo and I'm seeing dark round nodules (the troilite) and silvery dendritic material (schreibersite?). Which is which? Thanks, Yinan __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites http://www.galactic-stone.com http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Iron meteorite inclusion question
A couple of people asked for a better picture, so here it is; http://pics.livejournal.com/thefossiladdict/pic/000aypd1 Thanks for help in advance! -Yinan On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 8:04 PM, countde...@earthlink.net wrote: Wang, Very nice specimen. Wish it was in my cabinet. In your first message you had the descriptions of the inclusions correct. Best regards, Count Deiro IMCA 3536 -Original Message- From: Yinan Wang veom...@gmail.com Sent: Aug 19, 2010 8:58 PM To: Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com Cc: METEORITE LIST meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Iron meteorite inclusion question Here's a rough picture of the slice, any suggestions? http://pics.livejournal.com/thefossiladdict/pic/000axxf0 -Yinan On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 7:43 PM, Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Yinan, The dark inclusions could be graphite. Troilite often has a brassy coloration to it. Do you have a photo of the slice? Best regards, MikeG On 8/19/10, Yinan Wang veom...@gmail.com wrote: Hi everyone, simple question: In an iron meteorite, when etched, what do the troilite and schreibersite inclusions look like? I have a slice of canyon diablo and I'm seeing dark round nodules (the troilite) and silvery dendritic material (schreibersite?). Which is which? Thanks, Yinan __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites http://www.galactic-stone.com http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Iron meteorite inclusion question
Beautiful slice. And, an excellent picture. My vote is also graphite. Cheers! Mike Tettenborn On 19/08/2010 9:25 PM, Yinan Wang wrote: A couple of people asked for a better picture, so here it is; http://pics.livejournal.com/thefossiladdict/pic/000aypd1 Thanks for help in advance! -Yinan On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 8:04 PM,countde...@earthlink.net wrote: Wang, Very nice specimen. Wish it was in my cabinet. In your first message you had the descriptions of the inclusions correct. Best regards, Count Deiro IMCA 3536 -Original Message- From: Yinan Wangveom...@gmail.com Sent: Aug 19, 2010 8:58 PM To: Galactic Stone Ironworksmeteoritem...@gmail.com Cc: METEORITE LISTmeteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Iron meteorite inclusion question Here's a rough picture of the slice, any suggestions? http://pics.livejournal.com/thefossiladdict/pic/000axxf0 -Yinan On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 7:43 PM, Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Yinan, The dark inclusions could be graphite. Troilite often has a brassy coloration to it. Do you have a photo of the slice? Best regards, MikeG On 8/19/10, Yinan Wangveom...@gmail.com wrote: Hi everyone, simple question: In an iron meteorite, when etched, what do the troilite and schreibersite inclusions look like? I have a slice of canyon diablo and I'm seeing dark round nodules (the troilite) and silvery dendritic material (schreibersite?). Which is which? Thanks, Yinan __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites http://www.galactic-stone.com http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Iron meteorite inclusion question
WOW! How many grams, Yinan? Jerry On Aug 19, 2010, at 9:25 PM, Yinan Wang wrote: A couple of people asked for a better picture, so here it is; http://pics.livejournal.com/thefossiladdict/pic/000aypd1 Thanks for help in advance! -Yinan On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 8:04 PM, countde...@earthlink.net wrote: Wang, Very nice specimen. Wish it was in my cabinet. In your first message you had the descriptions of the inclusions correct. Best regards, Count Deiro IMCA 3536 -Original Message- From: Yinan Wang veom...@gmail.com Sent: Aug 19, 2010 8:58 PM To: Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com Cc: METEORITE LIST meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Iron meteorite inclusion question Here's a rough picture of the slice, any suggestions? http://pics.livejournal.com/thefossiladdict/pic/000axxf0 -Yinan On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 7:43 PM, Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Yinan, The dark inclusions could be graphite. Troilite often has a brassy coloration to it. Do you have a photo of the slice? Best regards, MikeG On 8/19/10, Yinan Wang veom...@gmail.com wrote: Hi everyone, simple question: In an iron meteorite, when etched, what do the troilite and schreibersite inclusions look like? I have a slice of canyon diablo and I'm seeing dark round nodules (the troilite) and silvery dendritic material (schreibersite?). Which is which? Thanks, Yinan __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites http://www.galactic-stone.com http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Iron meteorite inclusion question
About 252 grams. I found it in an old box in a rock warehouse marked as gibeon, but it turned out to be a canyon diablo as identified by Mike Miller, who did a great job on etching and making it look great. I have two other slices at 300 and 400 grams but they don't have as big of an inclusion. The color of the inclusion is more bronze than black, if that helps, and measures 1 across. I'm looking for inclusion ID help because I do plan to auction it off in the internet-only auctions that Heritage Auction Galleries is having in late sept, october, and planning to start at a very reasonable $0.80 a gram. Since I'm also the description writer, I want to make sure everything about it is accurate, so any help is appreciated! Thanks, Yinan On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 8:39 PM, GERALD FLAHERTY g...@comcast.net wrote: WOW! How many grams, Yinan? Jerry On Aug 19, 2010, at 9:25 PM, Yinan Wang wrote: A couple of people asked for a better picture, so here it is; http://pics.livejournal.com/thefossiladdict/pic/000aypd1 Thanks for help in advance! -Yinan On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 8:04 PM, countde...@earthlink.net wrote: Wang, Very nice specimen. Wish it was in my cabinet. In your first message you had the descriptions of the inclusions correct. Best regards, Count Deiro IMCA 3536 -Original Message- From: Yinan Wang veom...@gmail.com Sent: Aug 19, 2010 8:58 PM To: Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com Cc: METEORITE LIST meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Iron meteorite inclusion question Here's a rough picture of the slice, any suggestions? http://pics.livejournal.com/thefossiladdict/pic/000axxf0 -Yinan On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 7:43 PM, Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Yinan, The dark inclusions could be graphite. Troilite often has a brassy coloration to it. Do you have a photo of the slice? Best regards, MikeG On 8/19/10, Yinan Wang veom...@gmail.com wrote: Hi everyone, simple question: In an iron meteorite, when etched, what do the troilite and schreibersite inclusions look like? I have a slice of canyon diablo and I'm seeing dark round nodules (the troilite) and silvery dendritic material (schreibersite?). Which is which? Thanks, Yinan __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites http://www.galactic-stone.com http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Iron meteorite inclusion question
Yinan, Mike, I had a slice of Odessa years back that I had etched with Ferric Chloride and the process turned to otherwise brassy looking Troilite nodules a dark gray to almost black color. The Schreibersite remained nice and sparkly. I had the specimen re-etched with nitric and got my nice brassy look back again. From what I understand you can get around this by painting the troilite inclusions with a clear lacquer before etching with ferric and then remove the lacquer with acetone or some such solvent afterwards. Best, Steve Steve Witt IMCA #9020 http://imca.cc/ --- On Thu, 8/19/10, Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote: From: Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Iron meteorite inclusion question To: Yinan Wang veom...@gmail.com Cc: METEORITE LIST meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Thursday, August 19, 2010, 7:43 PM Hi Yinan, The dark inclusions could be graphite. Troilite often has a brassy coloration to it. Do you have a photo of the slice? Best regards, MikeG On 8/19/10, Yinan Wang veom...@gmail.com wrote: Hi everyone, simple question: In an iron meteorite, when etched, what do the troilite and schreibersite inclusions look like? I have a slice of canyon diablo and I'm seeing dark round nodules (the troilite) and silvery dendritic material (schreibersite?). Which is which? Thanks, Yinan __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites http://www.galactic-stone.com http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Iron meteorite inclusion question
That's definitely Troilite. I've heard you can brighten it up with a pencil eraser, but use caution, as it scratches easily. Steve Steve Witt IMCA #9020 http://imca.cc/ --- On Thu, 8/19/10, Yinan Wang veom...@gmail.com wrote: From: Yinan Wang veom...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Iron meteorite inclusion question To: Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com Cc: METEORITE LIST meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Thursday, August 19, 2010, 7:58 PM Here's a rough picture of the slice, any suggestions? http://pics.livejournal.com/thefossiladdict/pic/000axxf0 -Yinan On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 7:43 PM, Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Yinan, The dark inclusions could be graphite. Troilite often has a brassy coloration to it. Do you have a photo of the slice? Best regards, MikeG On 8/19/10, Yinan Wang veom...@gmail.com wrote: Hi everyone, simple question: In an iron meteorite, when etched, what do the troilite and schreibersite inclusions look like? I have a slice of canyon diablo and I'm seeing dark round nodules (the troilite) and silvery dendritic material (schreibersite?). Which is which? Thanks, Yinan __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites http://www.galactic-stone.com http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Iron meteorite inclusion question
Yinan, Nice specimen. Here's the Odessa slice I referred to earlier: http://www.flickr.com/photos/stevewitt/4909459190/ Regards, Steve Steve Witt IMCA #9020 http://imca.cc/ --- On Thu, 8/19/10, Yinan Wang veom...@gmail.com wrote: From: Yinan Wang veom...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Iron meteorite inclusion question To: GERALD FLAHERTY g...@comcast.net Cc: METEORITE LIST meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Thursday, August 19, 2010, 9:10 PM About 252 grams. I found it in an old box in a rock warehouse marked as gibeon, but it turned out to be a canyon diablo as identified by Mike Miller, who did a great job on etching and making it look great. I have two other slices at 300 and 400 grams but they don't have as big of an inclusion. The color of the inclusion is more bronze than black, if that helps, and measures 1 across. I'm looking for inclusion ID help because I do plan to auction it off in the internet-only auctions that Heritage Auction Galleries is having in late sept, october, and planning to start at a very reasonable $0.80 a gram. Since I'm also the description writer, I want to make sure everything about it is accurate, so any help is appreciated! Thanks, Yinan On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 8:39 PM, GERALD FLAHERTY g...@comcast.net wrote: WOW! How many grams, Yinan? Jerry On Aug 19, 2010, at 9:25 PM, Yinan Wang wrote: A couple of people asked for a better picture, so here it is; http://pics.livejournal.com/thefossiladdict/pic/000aypd1 Thanks for help in advance! -Yinan On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 8:04 PM, countde...@earthlink.net wrote: Wang, Very nice specimen. Wish it was in my cabinet. In your first message you had the descriptions of the inclusions correct. Best regards, Count Deiro IMCA 3536 -Original Message- From: Yinan Wang veom...@gmail.com Sent: Aug 19, 2010 8:58 PM To: Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com Cc: METEORITE LIST meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Iron meteorite inclusion question Here's a rough picture of the slice, any suggestions? http://pics.livejournal.com/thefossiladdict/pic/000axxf0 -Yinan On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 7:43 PM, Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Yinan, The dark inclusions could be graphite. Troilite often has a brassy coloration to it. Do you have a photo of the slice? Best regards, MikeG On 8/19/10, Yinan Wang veom...@gmail.com wrote: Hi everyone, simple question: In an iron meteorite, when etched, what do the troilite and schreibersite inclusions look like? I have a slice of canyon diablo and I'm seeing dark round nodules (the troilite) and silvery dendritic material (schreibersite?). Which is which? Thanks, Yinan __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites http://www.galactic-stone.com http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite Axe ID
Hi John , list, With all due respect, I recently added a few pictures which verify that IMHO this is A shape that is known in antiquity Meteoric iron of Naukratis Egypt C. BC400-400AD. Which is interesting because the lady was guessing that she recalled it was from Egypt but she could not remember for sure. This link was sent to me by Piper Hollier and as you can see it is a match to a hoe, of coarse a hand held AXE would not require both sides of the hoe as does the example pictured But is the shape correct? You be the judge! . see pictures again, The axe passed the nickel allergy test with flying colors. (mainly bright strawberry red). Thanks Carl http://www.flickr.com/photos/13030...@n07/?saved=1 . Kashuba mary.kash...@verizon.net wrote: List, This is not the shape of a tool made to hack, throw, push or pull. The shape of the blade and the location of mass is wrong. Further, a people that was short of iron would not have made an implement with a solid handle. I suggest this is a bar scarffed to be joined by welding to a similarly scarffed bar to form a corner for some structural application. It might even be part of such a joint that has failed and has been cut away from reusable stock. The nickel test should be enlightening. - John John Kashuba Ontario, California -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Peter Scherff Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 12:38 PM To: cdtuc...@cox.net; 'meteoritelist' Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite Axe ID Hi Carl, When a meteorite is heated and worked any widmanstatten pattern is usually destroyed. So the lack of a pattern won’t prove anything. I am somewhat skeptical as to your objects origin. My skepticism arises out of the shape of the handle. From the photos the handle portion appears to have a round cross section. That makes me think that the object was forged from an iron rod. Thanks, Peter -Original Message- From: cdtuc...@cox.net [mailto:cdtuc...@cox.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 2:43 PM To: Peter Scherff; meteoritelist Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite Axe ID Peter, I purchased this at an estate sale in Tucson and all the lady told me was that her late husband told her it was made of meteor and was a weapon from Egypt used for killing and not for kitchen use. ( good words to help sell? Maybe!) I deal in antiques so, I know there is always a story but the story does not always match the facts. I did try to acid etch the polished end and it dulls evenly except is small circles where it stays very shiny. No Widmanstatten or Newman lines. It still has a decent edge as well. I am being told that ASU has an AXE from Toluca so I am going to try and find a pic but I have not seen it yet. Thank you. Carl Peter Scherff petersche...@rcn.com wrote: Hi Carl, The photos of the iron object you posted are interesting. Perhaps we could give you more information if you could tell us why you think that the object is prehistoric, why it is meteoritic and why it is an ax? Thanks, Peter Scherff -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of cdtuc...@cox.net Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 12:38 PM To: Jack Schrader; meteoritelist Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite Axe ID Thank you Jack, Does anyone have any photos of Toluca tools they could share? Any other thoughts about Toluca as a sour se of this axe? If from Toluca would that make this a possible Mayan or Aztec culture or would you simply say Pre-Columbian artifact? Thank you. Jack Schrader schrad...@rocketmail.com wrote: Hello Carl. My guess would be that it is a Toluca or Xiquipilco meteorite. This meteorite is known by both names as it was discovered in the Toluca Valley of Xiquipilco Mexico in 1776. This meteoritic iron was well known to the early settlers in the area and they used the iron they found to make many of their common everyday tools. Nininger documented a number of tools made from this same iron when he visited the area and began collecting the meteorites from the locals. Best wishes, Jack - Original Message From: cdtuc...@cox.net cdtuc...@cox.net To: meteoritelist meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 4:21:33 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite Axe ID List, Please forgive me. I had some old photos I forgot to delete. What I am looking for is the correct age and culture of this antique Axe made of meteorite iron. Thanks Carl List, Can anyone help me identify the age and origin of this meteorite Iron Axe. Weighs 3.5 pounds. and is over 6 inches long
Re: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite Axe ID
Can we see again the pictures which you indicated a fusion crust and flow lines? Cheers, Pete Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 10:14:03 -0700 From: cdtuc...@cox.net To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; petersche...@rcn.com; mary.kash...@verizon.net Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite Axe ID Hi John , list, With all due respect, I recently added a few pictures which verify that IMHO this is A shape that is known in antiquity Meteoric iron of Naukratis Egypt C. BC400-400AD. Which is interesting because the lady was guessing that she recalled it was from Egypt but she could not remember for sure. This link was sent to me by Piper Hollier and as you can see it is a match to a hoe, of coarse a hand held AXE would not require both sides of the hoe as does the example pictured But is the shape correct? You be the judge! . see pictures again, The axe passed the nickel allergy test with flying colors. (mainly bright strawberry red). Thanks Carl http://www.flickr.com/photos/13030...@n07/?saved=1 . Kashuba wrote: List, This is not the shape of a tool made to hack, throw, push or pull. The shape of the blade and the location of mass is wrong. Further, a people that was short of iron would not have made an implement with a solid handle. I suggest this is a bar scarffed to be joined by welding to a similarly scarffed bar to form a corner for some structural application. It might even be part of such a joint that has failed and has been cut away from reusable stock. The nickel test should be enlightening. - John John Kashuba Ontario, California -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Peter Scherff Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 12:38 PM To: cdtuc...@cox.net; 'meteoritelist' Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite Axe ID Hi Carl, When a meteorite is heated and worked any widmanstatten pattern is usually destroyed. So the lack of a pattern won’t prove anything. I am somewhat skeptical as to your objects origin. My skepticism arises out of the shape of the handle. From the photos the handle portion appears to have a round cross section. That makes me think that the object was forged from an iron rod. Thanks, Peter -Original Message- From: cdtuc...@cox.net [mailto:cdtuc...@cox.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 2:43 PM To: Peter Scherff; meteoritelist Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite Axe ID Peter, I purchased this at an estate sale in Tucson and all the lady told me was that her late husband told her it was made of meteor and was a weapon from Egypt used for killing and not for kitchen use. ( good words to help sell? Maybe!) I deal in antiques so, I know there is always a story but the story does not always match the facts. I did try to acid etch the polished end and it dulls evenly except is small circles where it stays very shiny. No Widmanstatten or Newman lines. It still has a decent edge as well. I am being told that ASU has an AXE from Toluca so I am going to try and find a pic but I have not seen it yet. Thank you. Carl Peter Scherff wrote: Hi Carl, The photos of the iron object you posted are interesting. Perhaps we could give you more information if you could tell us why you think that the object is prehistoric, why it is meteoritic and why it is an ax? Thanks, Peter Scherff -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of cdtuc...@cox.net Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 12:38 PM To: Jack Schrader; meteoritelist Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite Axe ID Thank you Jack, Does anyone have any photos of Toluca tools they could share? Any other thoughts about Toluca as a sour se of this axe? If from Toluca would that make this a possible Mayan or Aztec culture or would you simply say Pre-Columbian artifact? Thank you. Jack Schrader wrote: Hello Carl. My guess would be that it is a Toluca or Xiquipilco meteorite. This meteorite is known by both names as it was discovered in the Toluca Valley of Xiquipilco Mexico in 1776. This meteoritic iron was well known to the early settlers in the area and they used the iron they found to make many of their common everyday tools. Nininger documented a number of tools made from this same iron when he visited the area and began collecting the meteorites from the locals. Best wishes, Jack - Original Message From: cdtuc...@cox.net To: meteoritelist Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 4:21:33 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite Axe ID List, Please forgive me. I had some old photos I forgot to delete. What I am looking for is the correct age and culture of this antique Axe made of meteorite iron. Thanks Carl List, Can anyone
Re: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite Axe ID
Pete, Those pictures with crust and flow lines were not related to this axe. They were shown by mistake. Sorry. Carl Esparza IMCA 5829 Pete Pete rsvp...@hotmail.com wrote: Can we see again the pictures which you indicated a fusion crust and flow lines? Cheers, Pete Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 10:14:03 -0700 From: cdtuc...@cox.net To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; petersche...@rcn.com; mary.kash...@verizon.net Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite Axe ID Hi John , list, With all due respect, I recently added a few pictures which verify that IMHO this is A shape that is known in antiquity Meteoric iron of Naukratis Egypt C. BC400-400AD. Which is interesting because the lady was guessing that she recalled it was from Egypt but she could not remember for sure. This link was sent to me by Piper Hollier and as you can see it is a match to a hoe, of coarse a hand held AXE would not require both sides of the hoe as does the example pictured But is the shape correct? You be the judge! . see pictures again, The axe passed the nickel allergy test with flying colors. (mainly bright strawberry red). Thanks Carl http://www.flickr.com/photos/13030...@n07/?saved=1 . Kashuba wrote: List, This is not the shape of a tool made to hack, throw, push or pull. The shape of the blade and the location of mass is wrong. Further, a people that was short of iron would not have made an implement with a solid handle. I suggest this is a bar scarffed to be joined by welding to a similarly scarffed bar to form a corner for some structural application. It might even be part of such a joint that has failed and has been cut away from reusable stock. The nickel test should be enlightening. - John John Kashuba Ontario, California -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Peter Scherff Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 12:38 PM To: cdtuc...@cox.net; 'meteoritelist' Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite Axe ID Hi Carl, When a meteorite is heated and worked any widmanstatten pattern is usually destroyed. So the lack of a pattern won’t prove anything. I am somewhat skeptical as to your objects origin. My skepticism arises out of the shape of the handle. From the photos the handle portion appears to have a round cross section. That makes me think that the object was forged from an iron rod. Thanks, Peter -Original Message- From: cdtuc...@cox.net [mailto:cdtuc...@cox.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 2:43 PM To: Peter Scherff; meteoritelist Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite Axe ID Peter, I purchased this at an estate sale in Tucson and all the lady told me was that her late husband told her it was made of meteor and was a weapon from Egypt used for killing and not for kitchen use. ( good words to help sell? Maybe!) I deal in antiques so, I know there is always a story but the story does not always match the facts. I did try to acid etch the polished end and it dulls evenly except is small circles where it stays very shiny. No Widmanstatten or Newman lines. It still has a decent edge as well. I am being told that ASU has an AXE from Toluca so I am going to try and find a pic but I have not seen it yet. Thank you. Carl Peter Scherff wrote: Hi Carl, The photos of the iron object you posted are interesting. Perhaps we could give you more information if you could tell us why you think that the object is prehistoric, why it is meteoritic and why it is an ax? Thanks, Peter Scherff -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of cdtuc...@cox.net Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 12:38 PM To: Jack Schrader; meteoritelist Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite Axe ID Thank you Jack, Does anyone have any photos of Toluca tools they could share? Any other thoughts about Toluca as a sour se of this axe? If from Toluca would that make this a possible Mayan or Aztec culture or would you simply say Pre-Columbian artifact? Thank you. Jack Schrader wrote: Hello Carl. My guess would be that it is a Toluca or Xiquipilco meteorite. This meteorite is known by both names as it was discovered in the Toluca Valley of Xiquipilco Mexico in 1776. This meteoritic iron was well known to the early settlers in the area and they used the iron they found to make many of their common everyday tools. Nininger documented a number of tools made from this same iron when he visited the area and began collecting the meteorites from the locals. Best wishes, Jack - Original Message From
Re: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite Axe ID
Thank you Jack, Does anyone have any photos of Toluca tools they could share? Any other thoughts about Toluca as a sour se of this axe? If from Toluca would that make this a possible Mayan or Aztec culture or would you simply say Pre-Columbian artifact? Thank you. Jack Schrader schrad...@rocketmail.com wrote: Hello Carl. My guess would be that it is a Toluca or Xiquipilco meteorite. This meteorite is known by both names as it was discovered in the Toluca Valley of Xiquipilco Mexico in 1776. This meteoritic iron was well known to the early settlers in the area and they used the iron they found to make many of their common everyday tools. Nininger documented a number of tools made from this same iron when he visited the area and began collecting the meteorites from the locals. Best wishes, Jack - Original Message From: cdtuc...@cox.net cdtuc...@cox.net To: meteoritelist meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 4:21:33 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite Axe ID List, Please forgive me. I had some old photos I forgot to delete. What I am looking for is the correct age and culture of this antique Axe made of meteorite iron. Thanks Carl List, Can anyone help me identify the age and origin of this meteorite Iron Axe. Weighs 3.5 pounds. and is over 6 inches long. Thank you. http://www.flickr.com/photos/13030...@n07/?saved=1 Carl Esparza IMCA 5829 Meteoritemax __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite Axe ID
Hi Carl, The photos of the iron object you posted are interesting. Perhaps we could give you more information if you could tell us why you think that the object is prehistoric, why it is meteoritic and why it is an ax? Thanks, Peter Scherff -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of cdtuc...@cox.net Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 12:38 PM To: Jack Schrader; meteoritelist Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite Axe ID Thank you Jack, Does anyone have any photos of Toluca tools they could share? Any other thoughts about Toluca as a sour se of this axe? If from Toluca would that make this a possible Mayan or Aztec culture or would you simply say Pre-Columbian artifact? Thank you. Jack Schrader schrad...@rocketmail.com wrote: Hello Carl. My guess would be that it is a Toluca or Xiquipilco meteorite. This meteorite is known by both names as it was discovered in the Toluca Valley of Xiquipilco Mexico in 1776. This meteoritic iron was well known to the early settlers in the area and they used the iron they found to make many of their common everyday tools. Nininger documented a number of tools made from this same iron when he visited the area and began collecting the meteorites from the locals. Best wishes, Jack - Original Message From: cdtuc...@cox.net cdtuc...@cox.net To: meteoritelist meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 4:21:33 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite Axe ID List, Please forgive me. I had some old photos I forgot to delete. What I am looking for is the correct age and culture of this antique Axe made of meteorite iron. Thanks Carl List, Can anyone help me identify the age and origin of this meteorite Iron Axe. Weighs 3.5 pounds. and is over 6 inches long. Thank you. http://www.flickr.com/photos/13030...@n07/?saved=1 Carl Esparza IMCA 5829 Meteoritemax __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite Axe ID
Peter, I purchased this at an estate sale in Tucson and all the lady told me was that her late husband told her it was made of meteor and was a weapon from Egypt used for killing and not for kitchen use. ( good words to help sell? Maybe!) I deal in antiques so, I know there is always a story but the story does not always match the facts. I did try to acid etch the polished end and it dulls evenly except is small circles where it stays very shiny. No Widmanstatten or Newman lines. It still has a decent edge as well. I am being told that ASU has an AXE from Toluca so I am going to try and find a pic but I have not seen it yet. Thank you. Carl Peter Scherff petersche...@rcn.com wrote: Hi Carl, The photos of the iron object you posted are interesting. Perhaps we could give you more information if you could tell us why you think that the object is prehistoric, why it is meteoritic and why it is an ax? Thanks, Peter Scherff -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of cdtuc...@cox.net Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 12:38 PM To: Jack Schrader; meteoritelist Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite Axe ID Thank you Jack, Does anyone have any photos of Toluca tools they could share? Any other thoughts about Toluca as a sour se of this axe? If from Toluca would that make this a possible Mayan or Aztec culture or would you simply say Pre-Columbian artifact? Thank you. Jack Schrader schrad...@rocketmail.com wrote: Hello Carl. My guess would be that it is a Toluca or Xiquipilco meteorite. This meteorite is known by both names as it was discovered in the Toluca Valley of Xiquipilco Mexico in 1776. This meteoritic iron was well known to the early settlers in the area and they used the iron they found to make many of their common everyday tools. Nininger documented a number of tools made from this same iron when he visited the area and began collecting the meteorites from the locals. Best wishes, Jack - Original Message From: cdtuc...@cox.net cdtuc...@cox.net To: meteoritelist meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 4:21:33 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite Axe ID List, Please forgive me. I had some old photos I forgot to delete. What I am looking for is the correct age and culture of this antique Axe made of meteorite iron. Thanks Carl List, Can anyone help me identify the age and origin of this meteorite Iron Axe. Weighs 3.5 pounds. and is over 6 inches long. Thank you. http://www.flickr.com/photos/13030...@n07/?saved=1 Carl Esparza IMCA 5829 Meteoritemax __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite Axe ID
Hi Carl, When a meteorite is heated and worked any widmanstatten pattern is usually destroyed. So the lack of a pattern won’t prove anything. I am somewhat skeptical as to your objects origin. My skepticism arises out of the shape of the handle. From the photos the handle portion appears to have a round cross section. That makes me think that the object was forged from an iron rod. Thanks, Peter -Original Message- From: cdtuc...@cox.net [mailto:cdtuc...@cox.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 2:43 PM To: Peter Scherff; meteoritelist Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite Axe ID Peter, I purchased this at an estate sale in Tucson and all the lady told me was that her late husband told her it was made of meteor and was a weapon from Egypt used for killing and not for kitchen use. ( good words to help sell? Maybe!) I deal in antiques so, I know there is always a story but the story does not always match the facts. I did try to acid etch the polished end and it dulls evenly except is small circles where it stays very shiny. No Widmanstatten or Newman lines. It still has a decent edge as well. I am being told that ASU has an AXE from Toluca so I am going to try and find a pic but I have not seen it yet. Thank you. Carl Peter Scherff petersche...@rcn.com wrote: Hi Carl, The photos of the iron object you posted are interesting. Perhaps we could give you more information if you could tell us why you think that the object is prehistoric, why it is meteoritic and why it is an ax? Thanks, Peter Scherff -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of cdtuc...@cox.net Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 12:38 PM To: Jack Schrader; meteoritelist Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite Axe ID Thank you Jack, Does anyone have any photos of Toluca tools they could share? Any other thoughts about Toluca as a sour se of this axe? If from Toluca would that make this a possible Mayan or Aztec culture or would you simply say Pre-Columbian artifact? Thank you. Jack Schrader schrad...@rocketmail.com wrote: Hello Carl. My guess would be that it is a Toluca or Xiquipilco meteorite. This meteorite is known by both names as it was discovered in the Toluca Valley of Xiquipilco Mexico in 1776. This meteoritic iron was well known to the early settlers in the area and they used the iron they found to make many of their common everyday tools. Nininger documented a number of tools made from this same iron when he visited the area and began collecting the meteorites from the locals. Best wishes, Jack - Original Message From: cdtuc...@cox.net cdtuc...@cox.net To: meteoritelist meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 4:21:33 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite Axe ID List, Please forgive me. I had some old photos I forgot to delete. What I am looking for is the correct age and culture of this antique Axe made of meteorite iron. Thanks Carl List, Can anyone help me identify the age and origin of this meteorite Iron Axe. Weighs 3.5 pounds. and is over 6 inches long. Thank you. http://www.flickr.com/photos/13030...@n07/?saved=1 Carl Esparza IMCA 5829 Meteoritemax __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite Axe ID
List, This is not the shape of a tool made to hack, throw, push or pull. The shape of the blade and the location of mass is wrong. Further, a people that was short of iron would not have made an implement with a solid handle. I suggest this is a bar scarffed to be joined by welding to a similarly scarffed bar to form a corner for some structural application. It might even be part of such a joint that has failed and has been cut away from reusable stock. The nickel test should be enlightening. - John John Kashuba Ontario, California -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Peter Scherff Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 12:38 PM To: cdtuc...@cox.net; 'meteoritelist' Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite Axe ID Hi Carl, When a meteorite is heated and worked any widmanstatten pattern is usually destroyed. So the lack of a pattern won’t prove anything. I am somewhat skeptical as to your objects origin. My skepticism arises out of the shape of the handle. From the photos the handle portion appears to have a round cross section. That makes me think that the object was forged from an iron rod. Thanks, Peter -Original Message- From: cdtuc...@cox.net [mailto:cdtuc...@cox.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 2:43 PM To: Peter Scherff; meteoritelist Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite Axe ID Peter, I purchased this at an estate sale in Tucson and all the lady told me was that her late husband told her it was made of meteor and was a weapon from Egypt used for killing and not for kitchen use. ( good words to help sell? Maybe!) I deal in antiques so, I know there is always a story but the story does not always match the facts. I did try to acid etch the polished end and it dulls evenly except is small circles where it stays very shiny. No Widmanstatten or Newman lines. It still has a decent edge as well. I am being told that ASU has an AXE from Toluca so I am going to try and find a pic but I have not seen it yet. Thank you. Carl Peter Scherff petersche...@rcn.com wrote: Hi Carl, The photos of the iron object you posted are interesting. Perhaps we could give you more information if you could tell us why you think that the object is prehistoric, why it is meteoritic and why it is an ax? Thanks, Peter Scherff -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of cdtuc...@cox.net Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 12:38 PM To: Jack Schrader; meteoritelist Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite Axe ID Thank you Jack, Does anyone have any photos of Toluca tools they could share? Any other thoughts about Toluca as a sour se of this axe? If from Toluca would that make this a possible Mayan or Aztec culture or would you simply say Pre-Columbian artifact? Thank you. Jack Schrader schrad...@rocketmail.com wrote: Hello Carl. My guess would be that it is a Toluca or Xiquipilco meteorite. This meteorite is known by both names as it was discovered in the Toluca Valley of Xiquipilco Mexico in 1776. This meteoritic iron was well known to the early settlers in the area and they used the iron they found to make many of their common everyday tools. Nininger documented a number of tools made from this same iron when he visited the area and began collecting the meteorites from the locals. Best wishes, Jack - Original Message From: cdtuc...@cox.net cdtuc...@cox.net To: meteoritelist meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 4:21:33 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite Axe ID List, Please forgive me. I had some old photos I forgot to delete. What I am looking for is the correct age and culture of this antique Axe made of meteorite iron. Thanks Carl List, Can anyone help me identify the age and origin of this meteorite Iron Axe. Weighs 3.5 pounds. and is over 6 inches long. Thank you. http://www.flickr.com/photos/13030...@n07/?saved=1 Carl Esparza IMCA 5829 Meteoritemax __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite Axe ID
List, Please forgive me. I had some old photos I forgot to delete. What I am looking for is the correct age and culture of this antique Axe made of meteorite iron. Thanks Carl List, Can anyone help me identify the age and origin of this meteorite Iron Axe. Weighs 3.5 pounds. and is over 6 inches long. Thank you. http://www.flickr.com/photos/13030...@n07/?saved=1 Carl Esparza IMCA 5829 Meteoritemax __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite Axe ID
I had some old photos I forgot to delete. What I am looking for is the correct age and culture of this antique Axe made of meteorite iron. Thanks Carl Where's it from...or is that what you're trying to find out? Two years ago, my brother and I were dredging for gold in the North fork yuba river when we found an old pick axe head...Later found out it was from the early forty-niner era. :O) GeoZay **A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221322936x1201367173/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072hmpgID=115bcd =Mayfooter51209NO115) __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Iron meteorite classification labs-free?
Does anyone know if there are any labs that will classify an iron meteorite free of charge? Please contact me off-list, Thanks, Matt Morgan -- Matt Morgan Mile High Meteorites http://www.mhmeteorites.com P.O. Box 151293 Lakewood, CO 80215 USA __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Iron meteorite classification labs-free?
Does anyone know if there are any labs that will classify an iron meteorite even with charge? Thanks Andi An: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: [meteorite-list] Iron meteorite classification labs-free? Does anyone know if there are any labs that will classify an iron meteorite free of charge? Please contact me off-list, Thanks, Matt Morgan -- Matt Morgan Mile High Meteorites http://www.mhmeteorites.com P.O. Box 151293 Lakewood, CO 80215 USA __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Iron meteorite classification labs-free?
This seems to be a problem here lately. Did something happen to make no one want to do the work on an iron or a pallasite? What did I miss? On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 3:55 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anyone know if there are any labs that will classify an iron meteorite free of charge? Please contact me off-list, Thanks, Matt Morgan -- Matt Morgan Mile High Meteorites http://www.mhmeteorites.com P.O. Box 151293 Lakewood, CO 80215 USA __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Mike Miller 230 Greenway Dr. Kingman Az 86401 www.meteoritefinder.com 928-753-6825 __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite for sale and IMCA
In a message dated 5/4/2007 3:04:03 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Yeah, we've had loads of these fake meteorite offers too, they are all scams. This new variant is just the usual I am the late wife of an oil baron, and I want to transfer some money... scam, but reworded. As mike said Deal with those you know well (i.e with the 'inner circle' (that's IMCA members and well know dealers!). -- - Thank you Mark. And to clarify things for brand-new List-members, the IMCA (International Meteorite Collectors Association) was created a few years ago just for this purpose. The IMCA's primary mission is Authenticity, and members are bound, as condition of membership, to sell only Authentic Meteorites. Errors can happen, but must be corrected immediately. And the Board reserves the right to ask that a questionable specimen be tested by a Lab of the Board's choosing. Any questions, just ask!! Anne M. Black www.IMPACTIKA.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] President, I.M.C.A. Inc. www.IMCA.cc ** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite for sale
In a message dated 5/3/2007 5:39:09 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hello Bob, Lists, Beware of a seller calling himself Bob Frankline, who is attempting to pass off a Chinga (currently on the Labenne webside, weight 499g) as a Mauritanian/NWA iron of any weight (he stated that it weighed 1091g). I did some sleuthing; the picture that was sent to me sure looked like a Chinga, so I searched for Chinga meteorites on google and the third hit was, well, it showed me the very same picture that I'd been sent of his 1091g Mauritanian meteorite. See here for the picture that he sent to me: http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f306/JUtas/wals.jpg and here for the Labennes' site and the identical image: http://www.meteorites.tv/index.html?lang=en-ustarget=d428.html The seller stated that it had been analysed in polytechnique de Vincent Bordeaux,in France when [he] was on transit to Cameroon from Mauritania. I tend to be trusting with such things, but this was an odd story, so I asked for more pictures/information, etc. He said that he would prefer to leave it uncut, but that it had aready been analysed with the following results: Chemically it contains 26.7%Ni,76%martensite and 24%taesite,0.072ppm Ge 0.177ppm Ga and finally it is 11.7ppm Ir. Load of crap, as you can see, both the data and the fact that it was analysed without being cut. So...beware of a 'Bob Frankline' or old material being passed off as a 'new NWA iron.' If the story's suspicious, or the irons doesn't look like a desert iron, just me mindful... Regards, Jason --- Very interesting Jason. Apparently he simply stole that picture of the Labenne's website. And he is not very good at simple math (26.7 + 76 + 24 = more than 100%) :-) Maybe Pierre-Marie Pele can do a quick search and tell us if there is a polytechnique de Vincent Bordeaux or if the University of Bordeaux does meteorite analysis. That would close the argument. Anne M. Black www.IMPACTIKA.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] President, I.M.C.A. Inc. www.IMCA.cc ** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite on Mars (Color Photo)
Darren- Your first assumption is the problem. The lens on the Pancam is f/20. Optical theory says that if this lens is perfect, the smallest size spot it can produce at the focal plane (the Airy disk) is 32um in diameter. By sampling at about half that size the sensor will capture all the spatial information present in the image. And indeed, the Pancam sensor has 16um pixels. The lens and the sensor are well matched to each other. Adding more pixels in the same area would not result in pictures of higher resolution, just the requirement for more bandwidth to send them. Of course, a higher resolution camera could be made. But that would require changing the optics as well as the sensor. And in the case of digital imaging like this, it is really only meaningful to talk about resolution in an angular sense, not in terms of the number of pixels. When we look at the image of this Martian meteorite, what we'd all like to see isn't more pixels as such, but more pixels across the meteorite itself. A lot of the one million pixels right now are imaging the area surrounding the meteorite. If the camera had a zoom lens, you could place nearly one million pixels right on the meteorite. That would be many times the resolution of the original image, with the same 1MP sensor. Chris * Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com - Original Message - From: Darren Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2005 11:30 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite on Mars (Color Photo) I must be misunderstanding something fundamentally here, then. My assumptions are: 1.) the optics are precise enough to focus enough photons on the CCD to provide a sharp image to the CCD cells at the higher pixel density 2.) the CCD cells are able to capture enough photons at the higher pixel density/smaller pixel size to record a meaningful signal. Given those two assumptions (and neglecting for a moment that it may not fit the real-world situation) how can putting a 5 million pixel CCD of the same size as the 1 million pixel CCD in the place of the 1 million pixel CCD NOT collect five times as many points of information for the same image focused on it? Not talking about changing the focal length of the optics, just having a CCD that can sample the same focused optical image in much smaller segments. Are you saying that this would NOT give a better resolution, given the established meaning of image resolution as applies to digital camera image output? If so, I don't understand how. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite on Mars (Color Photo)
On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 08:25:42 -0700, Chris Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: imaging like this, it is really only meaningful to talk about resolution in an angular sense, not in terms of the number of pixels. When we look at the I think the problem is that we were using two different meanings of the word resolution. For you, the one that matters (and that you were going by) is the one related to the density of information the lens can pick up (trying to avoid using the term resolve). But for me, working mostly with the output end, not the input end, resolution means the number of pixels, period (given, again, that the optics are good enough that the pixels are meaningful). Meaning, when I think of my monitor resolution, I think in the terms of it being 1600x1200, period, not 1600x1200 over a 19 inch diagonal surface. And, again, when I think of the resolution of the output of my camera, I think of it as 2560x1920, peroid, not 2560x1920 over a 2/3 inch CCD (which, at least according to a quick look at one source, is about 5 microns per CCD cell). So when the earlier poster asked about higer resolution photos being available in the context of wanting a large photographic print of the image, IMHO the response that the rover's CCD isn't very high resolution is the proper use of the term resolution as related to the issue of the size of photographic prints-- on the output end, it doesn't matter what the limits of the optics and CCD are-- what matters is that there are not and will not be enough meaningful pixels of information to get a good looking large print. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite on Mars (Color Photo)
The Other side says.20th Century Fox..prop made in China Jerry - Original Message - From: Sterling K. Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 2:57 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite on Mars (Color Photo) Hi, Assumption one is wrong. Basically, the PanCam is just about as good a camera as the $19.95 Samsung Digital Point'N'Shoot dangling from the discount store rack. The image is 512x512 by 32 bits deep (I presume) and that's your one megapixel. If everyone chips in for the ticket, I'll borrow my neighbor's 7 megapixel Canon and go take some pictures of it. Heck, I'd even take a picture of the other side of the rock. What does the other side look like anyway? Sterling K. Webb -- Darren Garrison wrote: On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 23:08:45 -0700, Chris Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Darren- Replacing the Pancam sensor with, say, a 5MP array wouldn't yield better resolution. If the physical size of the sensor were larger, you would have a greater field of view. But even if the sensor had smaller pixels, the resolution wouldn't increase because the simple, three element f/20 lens of the camera has a spot size of 32um, twice the current pixel size. So packing in more pixels would just be empty resolution- there would be no real increase in the amount of information available. A blown up image from this 5MP image would look the same as the image from the 1MP sensor after you resized it to 5MP. In this case, what we'd really like would be the ability of the Pancam to switch in a longer focal length lens. Maybe the next mission! I must be misunderstanding something fundamentally here, then. My assumptions are: 1.) the optics are precise enough to focus enough photons on the CCD to provide a sharp image to the CCD cells at the higher pixel density 2.) the CCD cells are able to capture enough photons at the higher pixel density/smaller pixel size to record a meaningful signal. Given those two assumptions (and neglecting for a moment that it may not fit the real-world situation) how can putting a 5 million pixel CCD of the same size as the 1 million pixel CCD in the place of the 1 million pixel CCD NOT collect five times as many points of information for the same image focused on it? Not talking about changing the focal length of the optics, just having a CCD that can sample the same focused optical image in much smaller segments. Are you saying that this would NOT give a better resolution, given the established meaning of image resolution as applies to digital camera image output? If so, I don't understand how. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite on Mars (Color Photo)
http://www.xenotechresearch.com/truecol1.htm Here is a nice text about color calibration of images from Mars -[ MARCIN CIMALA ]-[ I.M.C.A.#3667 ]- http://www.Meteoryt.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.PolandMET.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.Gao-Guenie.com GSM +48(607)535 195 [ Member of Polish Meteoritical Society ] __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite on Mars (Color Photo)
On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 01:44:33 +0100, Meteoryt.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.xenotechresearch.com/truecol1.htm Here is a nice text about color calibration of images from Mars Hard to believe that something that well written and cogent came from such a complete and utter crackpot. (Just hit the back button on that page to see all of his claims of finding fossils of sea urchins, sand dollars, and trilobites in the rover photos. The guy is 51 cards short of a deck). __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite found on Mars: Done what could be done
Dear List, The initial articles forwarded kindly to the list mentioned that scientists were not interested in the meteorite quite bluntly. That to me was really a slap in the face to all of us, including the meteoritical society. After all, the significance of the find, especially to us meteoritical folks is completely incredible -as an understatement-, I would suggest. So I looked up Dr. McSween, a past president of the Met Soc and of course, the author of a priceless book in many of our libraries: Meteorites and their Parent Planets. In addition to being a contributor to the Rover mission itself (in what capacity I do not know), I thought, if anyone would be more interested and able to do something about that, it would be the esteemed Dr. McSween. I received an answer today from the kind and respectful Professor, though it was sort of sad in many ways - in the sense of being informed that one's meteorite is really a meteorwrong. Apparently, the meteorite was used in brush mode to brush away whatever could be and then he mentioned that the RAT actually could not grind metal apparently at all. And what could be done probably was done. Analysis of this data to me, could have been the subject of several exotic and exciting PhD theses, grants toward the study of meteoritics, etc., but alas 'twas not in the cards. As I personally was hoping for a better prepared grinder, that news sort of went over like a wet blanket. The point of saving it to the end, thus is not very promising if the capability simply isn't there. And if Hap say what was done, was done, as hard as it is to accept, well, I'll be chalking this one up to a case of terrible reporting to a public conscious and interested in meteorites, a design/poorly anticipated issue overlooked on the RAT team, and hopefully a mistake to be learned from next mission when earth sends state of the art geological tools. Sterling, I appreciate your comments. While the statistical argument of Ron of course is true, they are comments like yours that gets humankind in high gear to find out and do exploration in the first place. That extra curiosity factor that got the Rovers to Mars in the first place. Probably whoever uttered that dumb comment about scientists not being interested in the meteorite at all and got me unwound too, is going to cause both the constructive (your type of brainstorming comments which are at the foundation of scientific thought) ideas to take a slap for the insensitive and foolish ones (like to press release we read initially). Also the press release would seem to have mischaracterized the capability of the RAT suggesting it was possible whenin fact it appears that it simply is not. Anyway that is how I'm reading this one unless someone comes up with a more plausible explanation on why that first asteroid ever encountered and touched in a controlled manner, in an alien environment is simply going to have tire tracks going by it like all those we've seen in the Sahara desert, until someone actually recognizes how precious and what storehouses of information are meteorites. Back to blueberries and strawberries and wake up music for the moment I guess, until the next great discover of this vastly successful mission and its participants. Saludos, Doug En un mensaje con fecha 01/19/2005 2:09:39 PM Mexico Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribe: They don't want to damage the RAT and save it for the rest of the mission. Well, like I pointed out last night, how about the end of the mission? The mission will probably end when a critical component on the rover fails, and we don't know when that will happen. Also, the Rover will continue its exploration into new territory, and will be moving away from the meteorite. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite on Mars (Color Photo)
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/missions/mer/images.cfm?id=1466 [Image] Iron Meteorite on Mars January 19, 2005 NASA's Mars Exploration Rover Opportunity has found an iron meteorite on Mars, the first meteorite of any type ever identified on another planet. The pitted, basketball-size object is mostly made of iron and nickel. Readings from spectrometers on the rover determined that composition. Opportunity used its panoramic camera to take the images used in this approximately true-color composite on the rover's 339th martian day, or sol (Jan. 6, 2005). This composite combines images taken through the panoramic camera's 600-nanometer (red), 530-nanometer (green), and 480-nanometer (blue) filters. Image Credit: NASA/JPL/Cornell __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite on Mars (Color Photo)
Hello Ron. What a cool color picture that is. Is there a possibility in the near future of a color print being published that a person could purchase? I for one would like to have one! Thanks for all the info that you provide to us! Dave http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/missions/mer/images.cfm?id=1466 [Image] Iron Meteorite on Mars January 19, 2005 NASA's Mars Exploration Rover Opportunity has found an iron meteorite on Mars, the first meteorite of any type ever identified on another planet. The pitted, basketball-size object is mostly made of iron and nickel. Readings from spectrometers on the rover determined that composition. Opportunity used its panoramic camera to take the images used in this approximately true-color composite on the rover's 339th martian day, or sol (Jan. 6, 2005). This composite combines images taken through the panoramic camera's 600-nanometer (red), 530-nanometer (green), and 480-nanometer (blue) filters. Image Credit: NASA/JPL/Cornell __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite on Mars (Color Photo)
Wow! This is a much more convincing photo. Is there a HiRez color closeup? In this image, you don't see the facets and ridges so clearly as in the earlier one. Most interesting... Nick At 06:29 PM 1/19/2005, Dave Schultz wrote: Hello Ron. What a cool color picture that is. Is there a possibility in the near future of a color print being published that a person could purchase? I for one would like to have one! Thanks for all the info that you provide to us! Dave __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite on Mars (Color Photo)
On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 18:29:25 -0800 (PST), Dave Schultz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Ron. What a cool color picture that is. Is there a possibility in the near future of a color print being published that a person could purchase? I for one would like to have one! Thanks for all the info that you provide to us! I doubt that NASA has a higer-resolution version of the photo than they are releasing to the public. Why not simply send the photo to one of the many photo printing services on the internet (like www.dotphoto.com, www.shutterfly.com, and www.clubphoto.com) and buy a print from them? Or even take it on a CD to a local photo lab? __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite on Mars (Color Photo)
I doubt that NASA has a higer-resolution version of the photo than they are releasing to the public. Why not simply send the photo to one of the many photo printing services on the internet (like www.dotphoto.com, www.shutterfly.com, and www.clubphoto.com) and buy a print from them? Or even take it on a CD to a local photo lab? Greetings all, I hate to be a nay-sayer or anything of the likes. But, that picture sure looks like a cheap Photoshop copy-and-paste job. Here's the link again for you all that have filters or didn't look before: http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/missions/mer/images.cfm?id=1466 I'm sure it's due to the false color imaging to make it look natural or whatever. It just seems like the shadows don't match considering the ground soil and the meteorite itself. I'm quite certain I'm wrong in any insinuations above, but it doesn't look anything natural to me. I believe they have found an iron meteorite, but that picture doesn't look right to me. Maybe they are trying too hard to convince us??? Just my amateurish 2-cents worth, Dave __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite on Mars (Color Photo)
I have no trouble capturing, printing, editing any size photo in PhotoShop. I'd just like to see a color image with the resolution of the first BW image. I'd like to see it in the resolution they receive it in. It's likely that the ones released for public consumption are lower Rez. Are they? Nick __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite on Mars (Color Photo)
On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 20:34:08 -0800, Nicholas Gessler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd like to see it in the resolution they receive it in. It's likely that the ones released for public consumption are lower Rez. Are they? It can never be too very high in resolution-- the CCD is only 1 megapixel: http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/technology/pancam_techwed_040114.html __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite on Mars (Color Photo)
The number of pixels has nothing to do with resolution. What matters is the size of each pixel and the focal length of the camera. In the case of the Pancam, that's 16um and 38mm, giving a resolution of about one arcminute- slightly better than the human eye. Chris * Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com - Original Message - From: Darren Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2005 9:44 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite on Mars (Color Photo) On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 20:34:08 -0800, Nicholas Gessler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd like to see it in the resolution they receive it in. It's likely that the ones released for public consumption are lower Rez. Are they? It can never be too very high in resolution-- the CCD is only 1 megapixel: http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/technology/pancam_techwed_040114.html __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite on Mars (Color Photo)
On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 22:18:33 -0700, Chris Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The number of pixels has nothing to do with resolution. What matters is the size of each pixel and the focal length of the camera. In the case of the Pancam, that's 16um and 38mm, giving a resolution of about one arcminute- slightly better than the human eye. Okay, then, cut the word resolution out of my reply and replace it with whichever word means total number of pixels available in the image, this being the factor-- assuming good optics-- that determines the size at which an image can be printed and still look good which is what 99 percent of people concider resolution to be, and will continue to do so (and hopefully this won't degrade into an argument similar to the recent ones on what magnetic means). Whichever word is used to mean what I obviously meant when I use resolution the same way most people use the word resolution, the CCDs on the rovers are only 1 megapixel-- which means that the photo will never be as high(whatever the word is that almost everyone else accepts as resolution) enough to make a large print that looks as sharp and detailed as would come from a film camera or higher-end digital camera. Yes, the one megapixel CCDs on the rovers are better than the 3ish megapixel camera on consumer-grade digitals, but the 10+ megapixel CCDs on pro models are better than the one megapixel CCDs on the rovers. And, IMHO, if I were somehow standing on Mars and my camera surviving the conditions, I think that my 5 megapixel Sony F707 would take a better picture (better meaning being of higher captured detail and able to be magnifed more and printed at a larger size and stil look good) than the composite color photo from the rover's CCD. Chris * Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com - Original Message - From: Darren Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2005 9:44 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite on Mars (Color Photo) On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 20:34:08 -0800, Nicholas Gessler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd like to see it in the resolution they receive it in. It's likely that the ones released for public consumption are lower Rez. Are they? It can never be too very high in resolution-- the CCD is only 1 megapixel: http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/technology/pancam_techwed_040114.html __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite on Mars (Color Photo)
On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 00:46:07 -0500, Darren Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 22:18:33 -0700, Chris Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The number of pixels has nothing to do with resolution. What matters is the size of each pixel and the focal length of the camera. In the case of the Pancam, that's 16um and 38mm, giving a resolution of about one arcminute- slightly better than the human eye. Okay, then, cut the word resolution out of my reply and replace it with whichever word means total number of pixels available in the image, this being the factor-- assuming good optics-- that determines the size at which an image can be printed and still look good Just as a follow-up, I found the correct word that goes in the place of my incorrectly used resolution. It is the word resolution. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_resolution Image resolution From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. The image resolution is a term that says something about how much image detail an image can hold. The term is most often used in relation to digital images, but is also used to describe how grainy a film-based image is. Higher resolution means more image detail. For digital raster-images, the convention is to describe the image resolution with the set of two positive integer-numbers, where the first number is the number of pixel-columns (width) and the second is the number of pixel-rows (height). The second most popular convention is to describe the total number of pixels in the image (typically given as number of megapixels), wich can be calculated by multiplying pixel-columns with pixel-rows. Other conventions include describing resolution per area-unit or resolution per length-unit such as pixels per inch. Below is an illustration of how the same image will appear at different resolutions. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite on Mars (Color Photo)
Hi Darren- Replacing the Pancam sensor with, say, a 5MP array wouldn't yield better resolution. If the physical size of the sensor were larger, you would have a greater field of view. But even if the sensor had smaller pixels, the resolution wouldn't increase because the simple, three element f/20 lens of the camera has a spot size of 32um, twice the current pixel size. So packing in more pixels would just be empty resolution- there would be no real increase in the amount of information available. A blown up image from this 5MP image would look the same as the image from the 1MP sensor after you resized it to 5MP. In this case, what we'd really like would be the ability of the Pancam to switch in a longer focal length lens. Maybe the next mission! Chris * Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com - Original Message - From: Darren Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2005 10:46 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite on Mars (Color Photo) On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 22:18:33 -0700, Chris Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The number of pixels has nothing to do with resolution. What matters is the size of each pixel and the focal length of the camera. In the case of the Pancam, that's 16um and 38mm, giving a resolution of about one arcminute- slightly better than the human eye. Okay, then, cut the word resolution out of my reply and replace it with whichever word means total number of pixels available in the image, this being the factor-- assuming good optics-- that determines the size at which an image can be printed and still look good which is what 99 percent of people concider resolution to be, and will continue to do so (and hopefully this won't degrade into an argument similar to the recent ones on what magnetic means). Whichever word is used to mean what I obviously meant when I use resolution the same way most people use the word resolution, the CCDs on the rovers are only 1 megapixel-- which means that the photo will never be as high(whatever the word is that almost everyone else accepts as resolution) enough to make a large print that looks as sharp and detailed as would come from a film camera or higher-end digital camera. Yes, the one megapixel CCDs on the rovers are better than the 3ish megapixel camera on consumer-grade digitals, but the 10+ megapixel CCDs on pro models are better than the one megapixel CCDs on the rovers. And, IMHO, if I were somehow standing on Mars and my camera surviving the conditions, I think that my 5 megapixel Sony F707 would take a better picture (better meaning being of higher captured detail and able to be magnifed more and printed at a larger size and stil look good) than the composite color photo from the rover's CCD. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite on Mars (Color Photo)
But it isn't the correct definition in this case, because it is the optics that is limiting the information content, not the number or density of the pixels on the sensor. Chris * Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com - Original Message - From: Darren Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2005 10:57 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite on Mars (Color Photo) Just as a follow-up, I found the correct word that goes in the place of my incorrectly used resolution. It is the word resolution. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_resolution __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite on Mars (Color Photo)
On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 23:08:45 -0700, Chris Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Darren- Replacing the Pancam sensor with, say, a 5MP array wouldn't yield better resolution. If the physical size of the sensor were larger, you would have a greater field of view. But even if the sensor had smaller pixels, the resolution wouldn't increase because the simple, three element f/20 lens of the camera has a spot size of 32um, twice the current pixel size. So packing in more pixels would just be empty resolution- there would be no real increase in the amount of information available. A blown up image from this 5MP image would look the same as the image from the 1MP sensor after you resized it to 5MP. In this case, what we'd really like would be the ability of the Pancam to switch in a longer focal length lens. Maybe the next mission! I must be misunderstanding something fundamentally here, then. My assumptions are: 1.) the optics are precise enough to focus enough photons on the CCD to provide a sharp image to the CCD cells at the higher pixel density 2.) the CCD cells are able to capture enough photons at the higher pixel density/smaller pixel size to record a meaningful signal. Given those two assumptions (and neglecting for a moment that it may not fit the real-world situation) how can putting a 5 million pixel CCD of the same size as the 1 million pixel CCD in the place of the 1 million pixel CCD NOT collect five times as many points of information for the same image focused on it? Not talking about changing the focal length of the optics, just having a CCD that can sample the same focused optical image in much smaller segments. Are you saying that this would NOT give a better resolution, given the established meaning of image resolution as applies to digital camera image output? If so, I don't understand how. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite on Mars (Color Photo)
Hi, Assumption one is wrong. Basically, the PanCam is just about as good a camera as the $19.95 Samsung Digital Point'N'Shoot dangling from the discount store rack. The image is 512x512 by 32 bits deep (I presume) and that's your one megapixel. If everyone chips in for the ticket, I'll borrow my neighbor's 7 megapixel Canon and go take some pictures of it. Heck, I'd even take a picture of the other side of the rock. What does the other side look like anyway? Sterling K. Webb -- Darren Garrison wrote: On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 23:08:45 -0700, Chris Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Darren- Replacing the Pancam sensor with, say, a 5MP array wouldn't yield better resolution. If the physical size of the sensor were larger, you would have a greater field of view. But even if the sensor had smaller pixels, the resolution wouldn't increase because the simple, three element f/20 lens of the camera has a spot size of 32um, twice the current pixel size. So packing in more pixels would just be empty resolution- there would be no real increase in the amount of information available. A blown up image from this 5MP image would look the same as the image from the 1MP sensor after you resized it to 5MP. In this case, what we'd really like would be the ability of the Pancam to switch in a longer focal length lens. Maybe the next mission! I must be misunderstanding something fundamentally here, then. My assumptions are: 1.) the optics are precise enough to focus enough photons on the CCD to provide a sharp image to the CCD cells at the higher pixel density 2.) the CCD cells are able to capture enough photons at the higher pixel density/smaller pixel size to record a meaningful signal. Given those two assumptions (and neglecting for a moment that it may not fit the real-world situation) how can putting a 5 million pixel CCD of the same size as the 1 million pixel CCD in the place of the 1 million pixel CCD NOT collect five times as many points of information for the same image focused on it? Not talking about changing the focal length of the optics, just having a CCD that can sample the same focused optical image in much smaller segments. Are you saying that this would NOT give a better resolution, given the established meaning of image resolution as applies to digital camera image output? If so, I don't understand how. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite IIC - Off - Finest
Hi List, I am trying to locate a small etched slice of a type IIC which would show the finest widmanstatten lines. If someone has an answer, please email me. Thanks Jerry A. Baird __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite Hardness vs Nickel Content
G'day List, Does anyone know if there is a direct relation between the amount of nickel present in a meteorite and its hardness. For example; is a meteorite with say 5% nickel softer than a meteorite with 15%-20% nickel? Does this come down to Kamacite vs Taenite? Thanks in advance, Jeff KuykenI.M.C.A. #3085www.meteorites.com.auwww.meteoritesaustralia.com
[meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite w/ holes
Hello List, I have an SA with a hole, but I was under the impression that holes were formed in one of though ways. One being caused by weathering and the other, by two regmaglypts burning through? My SA's hole does not appear to be formed by either, like most SA's it is not very weathered and the hole is very long, looking like a tunnel and does not have a regmaglypt on either side. Any ideas? Thanks, Tom Peregrineflier __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
