Hello!
On Fri, Mar 24, 2006 at 10:35:05AM -0700, Spruell, Darren-Perot wrote:
And a quick Google search reveals that this is a.) a dead horse, b.) already
in place:
http://mailman.theapt.org/listinfo/openbsd-newbies
This should be referred to from http://www.openbsd.org/mail.html
On 2006-03-27 14:49:52 +0200, Hannah Schroeter wrote:
On Fri, Mar 24, 2006 at 10:35:05AM -0700, Spruell, Darren-Perot wrote:
And a quick Google search reveals that this is a.) a dead horse, b.) already
in place:
http://mailman.theapt.org/listinfo/openbsd-newbies
This should be referred to
...on Sat, Mar 25, 2006 at 08:25:32AM +0100, Jurjen Oskam wrote:
There is no reason to provide funding from a business standpoint. What
does
the business gain?
Does having a business standpoint require shutting off all common sense?
In todays world: Mostly. Modern businesses have
thus Stefan Olsson spake:
From: Alexander Bochmann [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 2:29 PM
My guess is that especially (US-based) public companies don't want to
be seen associated with OpenBSD (by donating, for example), as they
fear damage to their business reputation from
thus Timo Schoeler spake:
thus Stefan Olsson spake:
From: Alexander Bochmann [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 2:29 PM
My guess is that especially (US-based) public companies don't want to
be seen associated with OpenBSD (by donating, for example), as they
fear damage to their
On 03/24/06 04:17, Theo de Raadt wrote:
http://www.digg.com/linux_unix/OpenBSD_needs_a_major_donor
http://bsd.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/03/21/1555243
..
These donations from individuals are really great. The community is
great. Thanks a lot.
But we know this is the wrong way to fund
Please, stop wanting companies to support you. It doesn't work that
way. To develop an OS under a licence like the ISC has a big hole:
funding. You can't just go: Hey, you use the implementation that I
develop and give away for free, you should pay me!. If the pay you,
OK, if the don't, well,
On 2006-03-24 12:10:37 +0100, chefren wrote:
This is whining and it isn't very sure because you have no idea what
alternatives for the free OpenSSH product would have cost.
They can happily use lsh.
Best
Martin
--
http://www.tm.oneiros.de
On Fri, Mar 24, 2006 at 08:40:59AM -0300, Andr?s Delfino wrote:
Please, stop wanting companies to support you. It doesn't work that
way. To develop an OS under a licence like the ISC has a big hole:
funding. You can't just go: Hey, you use the implementation that I
develop and give away for
It was the unique Unix-like OS with that licence. Right now, there are
tons of other systems. Companies want to invest in Linux-based
systems, because of marketing.
On 3/24/06, mickey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Fri, Mar 24, 2006 at 08:40:59AM -0300, Andr?s Delfino wrote:
Please, stop wanting
On Fri, 24 Mar 2006, chefren wrote:
Demand something like $50 a year for access to the ftp.openbsd.org now!!!
You are suggesting that we screw the people who have contributed by far
the most to OpenBSD and OpenSSH, individual users and small organisations.
Not a very bright idea.
-d
On Fri, 24 Mar 2006, Andris Delfino wrote:
Please, stop wanting companies to support you. It doesn't work that
way. To develop an OS under a licence like the ISC has a big hole:
funding. You can't just go: Hey, you use the implementation that I
develop and give away for free, you should pay
As I have said before, BSD was the unique Unix-like operative system
with a ISC-style license. That's why, IMHO, companies invested in it.
On 3/24/06, Damien Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Fri, 24 Mar 2006, Andris Delfino wrote:
Please, stop wanting companies to support you. It doesn't
On Fri, Mar 24, 2006 at 09:36:01AM -0300, Andr?s Delfino wrote:
It was the unique Unix-like OS with that licence. Right now, there are
tons of other systems. Companies want to invest in Linux-based
systems, because of marketing.
what are you smoking dude?
what unique?
there was not att unix
Ryan Flannery [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I really hate prolonging this thread, but I'm curious about the
following... I've done quite bit of contract work around my area, and
in most cases I've been able to implement OpenBSD for something.
Whenever that's happened, I've always pushed for the
On 03/24/06 13:54, Damien Miller wrote:
On Fri, 24 Mar 2006, chefren wrote:
Demand something like $50 a year for access to the ftp.openbsd.org now!!!
You are suggesting that we screw the people who have contributed by far
the most to OpenBSD and OpenSSH, individual users and small
On Fri, Mar 24, 2006 at 10:10:36AM -0300, Andr?s Delfino wrote:
As I have said before, BSD was the unique Unix-like operative system
with a ISC-style license. That's why, IMHO, companies invested in it.
they supported it because they used it for their own product.
so what has changed in 'em
On Fri, 24 Mar 2006, mickey wrote:
SNAP
sorry dude but you are full of shit.
for example from history:
how do you think bsd was developped originally at the ucb?
cu
--
paranoic mickey (my employers have changed but, the name has
remained)
Lot's of money flowing from the US
Don't do that, that is extortion. If you don't want to make OpenBSD
free-as-in-freedom, but not free-as-in-beer; well, there is another
thing that might help. Companies will only donate if they gain
something, not just code, I'm talking about money.
I'm not a legal guy, but: isn't there a way to
On Fri, Mar 24, 2006 at 06:43:27AM -0700, Diana Eichert wrote:
On Fri, 24 Mar 2006, mickey wrote:
SNAP
sorry dude but you are full of shit.
for example from history:
how do you think bsd was developped originally at the ucb?
cu
--
paranoic mickey (my employers have
--- Deanna Phillips [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
That said, I think a wall of shame page on the OpenSSH site
might be a good idea: one listing all those big companies
mentioned that have never donated a dime. Negative PR might
result in more donations than managers receiving the minor
On Fri, 24 Mar 2006, mickey wrote:
On Fri, Mar 24, 2006 at 06:43:27AM -0700, Diana Eichert wrote:
SNIP
Lot's of money flowing from the US Gov't Dept of Defense?
and big companies...
sorry Mickey, but I've been involved with DOD DOE ( and it's
predecessors) for almost 25 years.
UC get's a
Andris Delfino [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Don't do that, that is extortion.
Well, it needn't be so severe. It could simply be an addition
to the users page ( http://www.openssh.org/users.html ) with
parenthetical notes such as:
( has donated to the project -- thank you. )
next to those that
(I'm so sorry that I'm continuing this thread...)
There is quite a conflict between the core developers that don't wish to
spend their time nicely holding newbies' hands (frankly, I don't want
them to spend their time on that either), and the touchy-feely people
that think OpenBSD would
On 2006/03/24 11:20, Ryan Fox wrote:
Why don't we have separate lists? One for general questions, and gently
guiding new users to the FAQ and man pages?
Like misc@ and http://mailman.theapt.org/listinfo/openbsd-newbies, you mean?
Hi!
On Fri, Mar 24, 2006 at 11:20:19AM -0500, Ryan Fox wrote:
Why don't we have separate lists? One for general questions, and gently
guiding new users to the FAQ and man pages? It can be all fuzzy and
warm; a place for pleasantries. And a separate list for more experienced
users that want
On 3/24/06, chefren [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Demand something like $50 a year for access to the ftp.openbsd.org now!!!
great idea. that's $50 from ibm, $50 from sun, $50 from redhat, and
$50 from apple. $200 sounds about right to cover all the expenses.
in case the project ends up using a
On 3/24/06, Ryan Fox [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
There is quite a conflict between the core developers that don't wish to
spend their time nicely holding newbies' hands (frankly, I don't want
them to spend their time on that either), and the touchy-feely people
that think OpenBSD would progress
On Thu, Mar 23, 2006 at 08:17:42PM -0700, Theo de Raadt wrote:
http://www.digg.com/linux_unix/OpenBSD_needs_a_major_donor
http://bsd.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/03/21/1555243
No one seems to care (unless donations have shot up and Theo, et. al.
haven't mentioned it)
From what I
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
That said, I think a wall of shame page on the OpenSSH site
might be a good idea: one listing all those big companies
mentioned that have never donated a dime. Negative PR might
result in more donations than managers receiving the minor
annoyance message
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Why don't we have separate lists? One for general questions,
and gently
guiding new users to the FAQ and man pages? It can be all fuzzy and
warm; a place for pleasantries. And a separate list for more
experienced
users that want to dwell in the lair of
missed some.
James Mackinnon
Devantec Solutions
- Original Message -
From: Theo de Raadt [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: misc@openbsd.org
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 7:02 PM
Subject: Re: openbsd and the money -solutions
I did not mean to step on another sacred cow - I
James Mackinnon wrote:
If you do offer paypal for the stuff above, I will buy more frequently
as to do my part to help support the System I trust with my
systems/network security.
I will send a donation now as well as I can do that VIA paypal (won't be
large, but it will be a donation)
Finally having to weight in:
I personally and my company has been buying at least 2 copies of each
release and t-shirts for as long as I can remember. The store folks
do a great job, and the one time they mixed up an order they sent me
a T-shirt and a nice reply. Theo and many others have
On Fri, 24 Mar 2006, Chet Uber wrote:
1. Read the damn FAQ's, newbies, and do a Google search on what you are
about to waste list bandwidth on. People on the project spend good time
getting this done for us.
2. Buy the CD, and quit bitching about it. For that matter be a good
neighbor and buy
--- Spruell, Darren-Perot [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Better approach. How about said companies belly up and support the group
that enables them (in part) to enjoy the financial success they have?
Because there is no reason for them to. Here's what would happen:
1) license change comes out
2)
Copyright law is complex, OpenBSD policy is simple - OpenBSD strives to
maintain the spirit of the original Berkeley Unix copyrights.
This is the first sentence of this page: http://www.openbsd.org/policy.html
Can't people see how ridiculous is all that talk about why don't we change
the
On Fri, Mar 24, 2006 at 03:15:27PM -0800, Brian wrote:
There is no reason to provide funding from a business standpoint. What does
the business gain?
Does having a business standpoint require shutting off all common sense?
Everytime someone mentions things like business decision or business
I read that FTP is becoming far more popular than CDROMs as a means
of obtaining OpenBSD. If this is because it's more convenient (vs. folks
just being too cheap) then it might make sense to sell downloadable
official (copyright Theo de Raadt) ISO images of releases as well as
CDROMs. Yes,
I read that FTP is becoming far more popular than CDROMs as a means
of obtaining OpenBSD. If this is because it's more convenient (vs. folks
just being too cheap) then it might make sense to sell downloadable
official (copyright Theo de Raadt) ISO images of releases as well as
On 03/23/06 20:52, Daniel E. Hassler wrote:
I read that FTP is becoming far more popular than CDROMs as a means
of obtaining OpenBSD. If this is because it's more convenient (vs. folks
just being too cheap) then it might make sense to sell downloadable
official (copyright Theo de Raadt)
On 03/23/06 22:11, Theo de Raadt wrote:
We can't.
What's difficult with pointing ftp.openbsd.org to a new server that's
a mirror of the current ftp.openbsd.org server?
Why can you point us again and again to the place where we should
buy CD's while we want to be pointed to a the place
I fail to see why there aren't at least 2000
people/organizations/OS's/OS projects willing to donate at a dollar a
day. That should give the projects what they need to evolve at a
healthy pace.
~5,000/mo for power, internet connection, and other overhead
~25,000/mo for hackathons
~10,000/mo for
with the project, with an explanation of what the project does.
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of chefren
Sent: Thu 3/23/2006 4:27 PM
To: misc@openbsd.org
Subject: Re: openbsd and the money -solutions
On 03/23/06 20:52, Daniel E. Hassler wrote:
I read that FTP
On Thu, 2006-03-23 at 22:27:10 +0100, chefren proclaimed...
Sigh... Is it so difficult to try this for a period?
I offer to do the administration.
Who the fuck are you? Nobody, that's who.
I don't trust some nobody to do the administration of the FTP server I
download from. Why would we
Apologies if this hasn't already been covered on the lists somewhere.
Limit CD-ROM download availability and push for more CD sales.
Instead of offering hefty discounts to resellers, why not establish
trusted distribution points in different countries?
I would personally be happy to act as one
I did not mean to step on another sacred cow - I really only wanted to
suggest redirecting this thread toward workable solutions.
The problem is that many of the workable solutions people are
suggesting are completely ridiculous.
They are in the catagory of Cater to me, the entire world is
Are you saying we can't propose anything better?
I did not mean to step on another sacred cow - I really only wanted to
suggest redirecting this thread toward workable solutions.
I don't know anything and I can prove it!
Theo de Raadt wrote:
I read that FTP is becoming far more popular
Hi,
Just an idea, but why not try to have this conversation linked to on
slashdot / digg. There is huge traffic to these sites from the linux
community, who all owe the OpenBSD developers for OpenSSH.
Regards
Edd
On 3/23/06, Edd Barrett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi,
Just an idea, but why not try to have this conversation linked to on
slashdot / digg. There is huge traffic to these sites from the linux
community, who all owe the OpenBSD developers for OpenSSH.
Someone put it up on Slashdot Tuesday.
On 3/23/06, Edd Barrett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Just an idea, but why not try to have this conversation linked to on
slashdot / digg. There is huge traffic to these sites from the linux
community, who all owe the OpenBSD developers for OpenSSH.
yeah, the last time we tried that, way back on
On 3/23/06, Edd Barrett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi,
Just an idea, but why not try to have this conversation linked to on
slashdot / digg. There is huge traffic to these sites from the linux
community, who all owe the OpenBSD developers for OpenSSH.
http://www.digg.com/linux_unix/OpenBSD_needs_a_major_donor
http://bsd.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/03/21/1555243
No one seems to care (unless donations have shot up and Theo, et. al.
haven't mentioned it)
From what I see, we have received a mini flood of donations, which
means there will
correction: no one with a great deal of money seems to care. ;)
I've been following the thread, and once I saw it on slashdot I got
off my lazy
ass and donated what little I could right now (more to come, but on a
grad
student salary, I can't donate what companies can).
I really hate
Just another idea. Start making the mega-companies like IBM, RedHat, etc
pay a license fee for the use of OpenSSH. They save literally millions
of dollars incorporating this into their own products, and don't give
anything back to the project.
They won't give anything financially without it
On Thu, 2006-03-23 at 23:00:50 -0500, Paul Greene proclaimed...
Just another idea. Start making the mega-companies like IBM, RedHat, etc
pay a license fee for the use of OpenSSH. They save literally millions
of dollars incorporating this into their own products, and don't give
anything
On Thu, 23 Mar 2006, Paul Greene wrote:
Just another idea. Start making the mega-companies like IBM, RedHat,
etc pay a license fee for the use of OpenSSH. They save literally
millions of dollars incorporating this into their own products, and
don't give anything back to the project.
No, we
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