Re: Installer overwrites partition table
> "Assumption is the mother of all fuck ups!" > - Steven Seagal ... you were assuming Steven Seagal said this, which is not true ...
Re: Installer overwrites partition table
On August 26, 2016 9:32:38 PM GMT+02:00, Pedro Tenderwrote: >"In the face of ambiguity, refuse the temptation to guess." >- PEP 20 > >"Assumption is the mother of all fuck ups!" >- Steven Seagal > >You've assumed many things and you've made a mistake. > >Don't blame other people's work for it. >Don't test on production/daily use machines. >Test before deploy. And, to be a bit constructive; Please supply diffs for the installer for us to consider. As far as possible, we try to separate information gathering from actions taken, but in some cases it gets to hard or cumbersome to do so. /Alexander > >On Aug 24, 2016 12:36, "Bertram Scharpf" >wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> first of all, I am an experienced OS installer and I did a >> heck of partitioning in my life. Now I had some unused disk >> space and I found it a good idea to install OpenBSD. >> >> The installers partitioning tool didn't offer me a variant >> that keeps my existing partitions. Therefore I immediately >> stopped it. But yet it was too late. The partition table was >> overwritten. >> >> The damage is not hard for me because I tersely do backups. >> But this behaviour is impudent. This blowfish is not a safe >> operating system, it rather is a poorly prepared fugu. >> >> Bertram >> >> >> -- >> Bertram Scharpf >> Stuttgart, Deutschland/Germany >> http://www.bertram-scharpf.de
Re: Installer overwrites partition table
On 08/26/16 15:32, Pedro Tender wrote: "In the face of ambiguity, refuse the temptation to guess." - PEP 20 "Assumption is the mother of all fuck ups!" - Steven Seagal You've assumed many things and you've made a mistake. Don't blame other people's work for it. Don't test on production/daily use machines. Test before deploy. I think it's pretty clear that this guy thought he knew what he was doing and was sadly mistaken. When this "experienced OS installer" was trying to install OpenBSD in "some unused disk space" and the installer said "Use (W)hole disk?", one would have thought a warning horn would have gone off. One would also think that when installing an unfamiliar OS that a backup, restore-able to bare-metal, would have been done (I don't know that it wasn't, since he never said one way or the other, but the "I've been screwed by you guys" tone of the original post suggests it wasn't done). I would like to politely suggest that enough network bandwidth has been wasted on this one.
Re: Installer overwrites partition table
"In the face of ambiguity, refuse the temptation to guess." - PEP 20 "Assumption is the mother of all fuck ups!" - Steven Seagal You've assumed many things and you've made a mistake. Don't blame other people's work for it. Don't test on production/daily use machines. Test before deploy. On Aug 24, 2016 12:36, "Bertram Scharpf"wrote: > Hi, > > first of all, I am an experienced OS installer and I did a > heck of partitioning in my life. Now I had some unused disk > space and I found it a good idea to install OpenBSD. > > The installers partitioning tool didn't offer me a variant > that keeps my existing partitions. Therefore I immediately > stopped it. But yet it was too late. The partition table was > overwritten. > > The damage is not hard for me because I tersely do backups. > But this behaviour is impudent. This blowfish is not a safe > operating system, it rather is a poorly prepared fugu. > > Bertram > > > -- > Bertram Scharpf > Stuttgart, Deutschland/Germany > http://www.bertram-scharpf.de
Re: Installer overwrites partition table
2016-08-26 19:22 GMT+02:00 Ali Farzanrad: > Stuart Henderson wrotes: > >>On 2016-08-24, Bertram Scharpf wrote: >>> The installers partitioning tool didn't offer me a variant >>> that keeps my existing partitions. >> >>If you wanted to try it again, when it asks "Use (W)hole disk or >>(E)dit the MBR?", choose E. >> >>It doesn't exactly hold your hand every step of the way, but >>what could be clearer than "Use whole disk"? >> > > The installer has 2 different steps to partitioning your disk. > At first ("Use (W)hole disk MBR, whole disk (G)PT or (E)dit?") it uses > fdisk(8) and after this step it will overwrites your partition table. > > The next step ("Use (A)uto layout, (E)dit auto layout, or create (C)ustom > layout?") could not recover you partition table from previous step even by > pressing Ctrl+C. > I'm pretty sure that the OpenBSD layout have *nothing* to do with what is written in the MBR or GPT. That's why the partition table is lost when the installer is asking about the layout. You told him to use the whole disk. -- Cordialement, Coues Ludovic +336 148 743 42
Re: Installer overwrites partition table
No personal insults, please. -- San Francisco isn't what it used to be, and it never was. -- Herb Caen
Re: Installer overwrites partition table
i won't trust you to feed my dog,if i had one. and i am expert in finding good dog caretaker. On Wed, Aug 24, 2016 at 4:45 PM, Bertram Scharpfwrote: > Hi, > > first of all, I am an experienced OS installer and I did a > heck of partitioning in my life. Now I had some unused disk > space and I found it a good idea to install OpenBSD. > > The installers partitioning tool didn't offer me a variant > that keeps my existing partitions. Therefore I immediately > stopped it. But yet it was too late. The partition table was > overwritten. > > The damage is not hard for me because I tersely do backups. > But this behaviour is impudent. This blowfish is not a safe > operating system, it rather is a poorly prepared fugu. > > Bertram > > > -- > Bertram Scharpf > Stuttgart, Deutschland/Germany > http://www.bertram-scharpf.de
Re: Installer overwrites partition table
Stuart Henderson wrotes: >On 2016-08-24, Bertram Scharpfwrote: >> The installers partitioning tool didn't offer me a variant >> that keeps my existing partitions. > >If you wanted to try it again, when it asks "Use (W)hole disk or >(E)dit the MBR?", choose E. > >It doesn't exactly hold your hand every step of the way, but >what could be clearer than "Use whole disk"? > The installer has 2 different steps to partitioning your disk. At first ("Use (W)hole disk MBR, whole disk (G)PT or (E)dit?") it uses fdisk(8) and after this step it will overwrites your partition table. The next step ("Use (A)uto layout, (E)dit auto layout, or create (C)ustom layout?") could not recover you partition table from previous step even by pressing Ctrl+C.
Re: Installer overwrites partition table
On 2016-08-24, Bertram Scharpfwrote: > The installers partitioning tool didn't offer me a variant > that keeps my existing partitions. If you wanted to try it again, when it asks "Use (W)hole disk or (E)dit the MBR?", choose E. It doesn't exactly hold your hand every step of the way, but what could be clearer than "Use whole disk"?
Re: Installer overwrites partition table
On 24 Aug 2016 10:02 p.m., "Bertram Scharpf"wrote: > This installer nuked away my whole notebook. Who wouldn't > get anrgy about that. If it is trolling to complain about > that, then after all I am a troll. If it is _not_ trolling > to write "lie", "bullshit" and to call me a "Hundepimmel" > (dogs willie), then I hope that I'm a troll. Being a troll is not about being rude but making people lose their time. You came here with grand claim that the installer failed on you and basically have gone "fuck you, this thing make me dust up my back up, I'm not helping you". A bug report without the most basic info to help resolve the bug is a trolling attempt. You had a notebook with a blank hard drive. You could have installed a random Linux in 5 minutes then redone the openbsd installer step by step until you find which step overwrote the partition. Instead, you decided to go on the project mail list and told the dev their work is really really bad. And you are offended they took it as an insult. > > But that doesn't matter any more. > Obviously it does matter, else you wouldn't be here.
Re: Installer overwrites partition table
Bertram Scharpf [li...@bertram-scharpf.de] wrote: > Calling me a troll and then using the word "Hundepimmel" in > the same mail: Does this guy Eric Furman read what he > writes? This is an obvious Dunning-Kruger. Being given > offence by a community that doesn't throw out such a > low-minded person is not really hurting me. > If you look at the archives, you'll see that people tried.
Re: Installer overwrites partition table
On Wednesday, 24. Aug 2016, 15:29:45 +0200, ludovic coues wrote: > So please, tell us what you have done step by step, so we can see if > there is anything that could be done in a better way. The installer didn't offer me a copy-paste, tee, screenshot or log facility. This makes it very difficult for me to retrace what I have done or what I will have done. But that doesn't matter any more. > You are either trolling or telling us there is a usability bug. This installer nuked away my whole notebook. Who wouldn't get anrgy about that. If it is trolling to complain about that, then after all I am a troll. If it is _not_ trolling to write "lie", "bullshit" and to call me a "Hundepimmel" (dogs willie), then I hope that I'm a troll. It would be nice if you business partners would read what you are dropping here. Calling me a troll and then using the word "Hundepimmel" in the same mail: Does this guy Eric Furman read what he writes? This is an obvious Dunning-Kruger. Being given offence by a community that doesn't throw out such a low-minded person is not really hurting me. Poor, poor people. I should feel sorry for you but you would have no use for that. Please leave the installer as it is so that everbody will be warned early enough. Bertram -- Bertram Scharpf Stuttgart, Deutschland/Germany http://www.bertram-scharpf.de
Re: Installer overwrites partition table
On Wed, Aug 24, 2016, at 09:16 AM, Bertram Scharpf wrote: > On Wednesday, 24. Aug 2016, 08:24:34 -0400, Nick Holland wrote: > > On 08/24/16 07:15, Bertram Scharpf wrote: > > > first of all, I am an experienced OS installer and I did a > > > heck of partitioning in my life. > > > > claim. And re-installing windows twenty times counts as one OS. > > Installing Linux five times counts as another. > > The last time I installed a Windows (if we call it an OS) > was about 1999. I had no Linux for about 7 years until > graphics weren't supported by BSD on my notebook for a > while. > > > > But yet it was too late. The partition table was > > > overwritten. > > The bug is not a concrete misbehaviour but the trap it is > setting up. Troll Ich denke dass du vielleicht ein Hundepimmel bist.
Re: Installer overwrites partition table
Hello Kamil, Your reply is unreasonably aggressive. Is there something wrong with the OpenBSD in that particular area? I use to install the OBSD to an unused partition - pretty strait forward process. Did something change recently? I've checked the FAQ - didn't find big changes nor warnings (except the "know what you are doing"). BTW, I use to run OBSD in VMWare for testing and bug finding - the work was done, but didn't like the experience (a lot). Wednesday, August 24, 2016, 6:41:58 AM, you wrote: KC> On Wed, 24 Aug 2016, Bertram Scharpfwrote: >> Hi, >> >> first of all, I am an experienced OS installer and I did a >> heck of partitioning in my life. Now I had some unused disk >> space and I found it a good idea to install OpenBSD. >> >> The installers partitioning tool didn't offer me a variant >> that keeps my existing partitions. Therefore I immediately >> stopped it. But yet it was too late. The partition table was >> overwritten. >> >> The damage is not hard for me because I tersely do backups. >> But this behaviour is impudent. This blowfish is not a safe >> operating system, it rather is a poorly prepared fugu. >> >> Bertram >> >> >> -- >> Bertram Scharpf >> Stuttgart, Deutschland/Germany >> http://www.bertram-scharpf.de KC> - You have unused disk space. Rather than spinning up a VM to play in, KC> you've instead opted for letting a new OS, that you have no experience KC> with, access and modify the raw disk bits. KC> - You've tried installing the aforementioned new and unknown OS, on a KC> disk that had other important data, that was already governed by KC> another OS. KC> To me, that doesn't sound like what an experienced user would do. KC> <3,K. -- Best regards, Borismailto:psi...@prodigy.net
Re: Installer overwrites partition table
On 8/24/16 7:15 AM, Bertram Scharpf wrote: > Hi, Hi, I don't write much on misc@ anymore because of emails like yours. But this time I fell I had too. I am not a OpenBSD dev, but I fell your insults as well I am sure. > first of all, I am an experienced OS installer and I did a > heck of partitioning in my life. Now I had some unused disk > space and I found it a good idea to install OpenBSD. Big statement. But questionable validity I guess... > The installers partitioning tool didn't offer me a variant > that keeps my existing partitions. Therefore I immediately > stopped it. But yet it was too late. The partition table was > overwritten. If you stop right away the disk wouldn't have been damage at all. So you didn't! fact. I suppose for you to say above "experienced OS installer" mean as long as someone or something is holding your hand... > The damage is not hard for me because I tersely do backups. > But this behaviour is impudent. This blowfish is not a safe > operating system, it rather is a poorly prepared fugu. Now if you read the FAQ or read the display on the screen, none of this would have happened. How do I know that. Well just a little story, my son did install OpenBSD many times in his life. To many to count and I never made it easy for him either. Always told him to RTFM first (believe me, he return this to me now every chance he has and I love him for it too!) and then if he has questions, to asked. He is on this list time to time when not busy with school, and he sure can confirmed this. Now why do I say that. Well his first "***experienced OS installer***" install was on his own build custom computer at age 6. Windows 95 at the time as he wanted to program his RCX back then for who knows about Lego! And his first OpenBSD installation was not to far after that. I used to asked him to install OpenBSD for me on load of Sun's servers and he do them happily, check the memory, add some, replace drives with new one, sometime 15 to 20 servers per night! The funny part about this is I have a few engineers working for me at the time and sadly I trusted my son more to do the proper install then they would have at the time! See most of them are "experienced OS installer" too! But don't know shit about hardware... His first multi boot installation was around the time he was 10 or so I think. Been so many years now I can't recall the details and it doesn't makes me any younger either! By the way his first multiboot was on his mac 1,1 at the time back then. May be he tried it on Windows I may have had around possibly but don't think so. However the first usable one was definitely on his mac that he used for school then and that wasn't the easiest one to do it on either! And he did multiple times before one day he did one mistake that I helped correct for him with the Golden help of Nick on this list. Believe me when I say he tried himself and only came to me at the last resource, he felt bad having made that mistake! So, what a Dad got to do, well help, we are there for that after all aren't we... See here history telling the truth, that was 2009! https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc=124122973208531=2 But that was after he succeeded multiple times without me telling him shit! So, what does that make him or you for that matter? Who's the "experienced OS installer"? So, I think you made a very big statement in your opening and you may have made a big fool of yourself as if your statement is true, then you shouldn't give up at the first trial! It only makes you looks like vaporware in statement, or proving you really need handing at every step, not creating your statement of "experienced OS installer", or if you want to live to your own words, then try again and do it right! There is nothing wrong making mistakes, we all do and I sure do my fair share of them too. But telling others that "This blowfish is not a safe operating system, it rather is a poorly prepared fugu." is way out of reason Or may be I should refer you to help provided by a 13 years old at the time for multi boot installed here: http://marc.info/?t=12694577022=1=4 And that was on his mac 5,5 however he had it running way before that on his very old mac 1,1 model. If your really interested I am sure you can find it in the archive. So, live up to your own words or eat them! Peace, Daniel PS: Statement like your remind me why I don't write as much as I used to on this list...
Re: Installer overwrites partition table
On Wed, Aug 24, 2016 at 03:16:21PM +0200, Bertram Scharpf wrote: > > > But yet it was too late. The partition table was > > > overwritten. > > The bug is not a concrete misbehaviour but the trap it is > setting up. This is beginning to sound ever more like lack of preparation for the task at hand. The FAQ entry somebody else posted earlier contains enough hints, had you read it, that you would have known that some preparation was necessary. But then you don't actually tell us what you did in any detail, only that whatever it was you attempted to do failed. If you expect any kind of help beyond what's already in the FAQ, you need to do better. As in, tell us exactly what you did, with all details and in the proper (actual) sequence. Otherwise you're just generating noise. And quite frankly, beyond some very limited and short-lived use cases, I don't see much point in multibooting at all, given the amount of work (developer resources) it tends to consume. Other OS projects possibly have other priorities and the resources to pour into making multibooting easier for the uninitiated, for OpenBSD it's pretty clear that multibooting is a special case that's not considered terribly useful to the majority of its users. OpenBSD runs surprisingly well on even dated hardware and under several of the common virtualization thingies that are available given recent-ish hardware. If what you want is to try out OpenBSD in some limited setting, I'd strongly recommend either getting some hardware you don't care about too much or spin up a VM in a virtualization setup you're comfortable with. -- Peter N. M. Hansteen, member of the first RFC 1149 implementation team http://bsdly.blogspot.com/ http://www.bsdly.net/ http://www.nuug.no/ "Remember to set the evil bit on all malicious network traffic" delilah spamd[29949]: 85.152.224.147: disconnected after 42673 seconds.
Re: Installer overwrites partition table
You are either trolling or telling us there is a usability bug. So please, tell us what you have done step by step, so we can see if there is anything that could be done in a better way. 2016-08-24 15:16 GMT+02:00 Bertram Scharpf: > On Wednesday, 24. Aug 2016, 08:24:34 -0400, Nick Holland wrote: >> On 08/24/16 07:15, Bertram Scharpf wrote: >> > first of all, I am an experienced OS installer and I did a >> > heck of partitioning in my life. >> >> claim. And re-installing windows twenty times counts as one OS. >> Installing Linux five times counts as another. > > The last time I installed a Windows (if we call it an OS) > was about 1999. I had no Linux for about 7 years until > graphics weren't supported by BSD on my notebook for a > while. > >> > But yet it was too late. The partition table was >> > overwritten. > > The bug is not a concrete misbehaviour but the trap it is > setting up. > > Bertram > > > -- > Bertram Scharpf > Stuttgart, Deutschland/Germany > http://www.bertram-scharpf.de > -- Cordialement, Coues Ludovic +336 148 743 42
Re: Installer overwrites partition table
On Wednesday, 24. Aug 2016, 08:24:34 -0400, Nick Holland wrote: > On 08/24/16 07:15, Bertram Scharpf wrote: > > first of all, I am an experienced OS installer and I did a > > heck of partitioning in my life. > > claim. And re-installing windows twenty times counts as one OS. > Installing Linux five times counts as another. The last time I installed a Windows (if we call it an OS) was about 1999. I had no Linux for about 7 years until graphics weren't supported by BSD on my notebook for a while. > > But yet it was too late. The partition table was > > overwritten. The bug is not a concrete misbehaviour but the trap it is setting up. Bertram -- Bertram Scharpf Stuttgart, Deutschland/Germany http://www.bertram-scharpf.de
Re: Installer overwrites partition table
On 08/24/16 07:15, Bertram Scharpf wrote: > Hi, > > first of all, I am an experienced OS installer and I did a > heck of partitioning in my life. claim. And re-installing windows twenty times counts as one OS. Installing Linux five times counts as another. > Now I had some unused disk > space and I found it a good idea to install OpenBSD. pretty well disproves your claim. Most people who have some multiple OS experience understand that your first install should be to dedicated hw until you understand how things work. > The installers partitioning tool didn't offer me a variant > that keeps my existing partitions. Lie. now, if you said, "I didn't see ...", then you might have our sympathy, but your absolute and incorrect statement makes you a fool or a trouble maker. > Therefore I immediately > stopped it. But yet it was too late. The partition table was > overwritten. Any implication that this is an inevitable outcome is false. > The damage is not hard for me because I tersely do backups. > But this behaviour is impudent. This blowfish is not a safe > operating system, it rather is a poorly prepared fugu. Bullshit. Lots of people (including me) multi-boot OpenBSD. Some of them have problems, but they acknowledge their participation in the problem and provide the details needed to get help rather than making foolish and false claims. Now, OpenBSD -- like most Operating Systems other than Linux -- does make the assumption that it is the only OS that will be installed on the computer (i.e., you got a job to do and this machine is going to do it). The assumption is completely overrideable, but if you blindly hit enter and assume the installer will read your mind and do what you want, you will be surprised. Welcome to the non-Linux world. Nick.
Re: Installer overwrites partition table
It's true that OpenBSD works wonderfully under VMware, especially under a Linux host. It's so good in fact, I see no logical reason to use OpenBSD any other way because it frees me from driver & firmware he'll; it's true that native performance is probably better, but now I can use OpenBSD as I wish, and still have time for other work. . Original Message From: Kamil Cholewiński Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2016 7:43 AM To: Bertram Scharpf; misc@openbsd.org Subject: Re: Installer overwrites partition table On Wed, 24 Aug 2016, Bertram Scharpf <li...@bertram-scharpf.de> wrote: > Hi, > > first of all, I am an experienced OS installer and I did a > heck of partitioning in my life. Now I had some unused disk > space and I found it a good idea to install OpenBSD. > > The installers partitioning tool didn't offer me a variant > that keeps my existing partitions. Therefore I immediately > stopped it. But yet it was too late. The partition table was > overwritten. > > The damage is not hard for me because I tersely do backups. > But this behaviour is impudent. This blowfish is not a safe > operating system, it rather is a poorly prepared fugu. > > Bertram > > > -- > Bertram Scharpf > Stuttgart, Deutschland/Germany > http://www.bertram-scharpf.de - You have unused disk space. Rather than spinning up a VM to play in, you've instead opted for letting a new OS, that you have no experience with, access and modify the raw disk bits. - You've tried installing the aforementioned new and unknown OS, on a disk that had other important data, that was already governed by another OS. To me, that doesn't sound like what an experienced user would do. <3,K.
Re: Installer overwrites partition table
On Wed, 24 Aug 2016, Bertram Scharpfwrote: > Hi, > > first of all, I am an experienced OS installer and I did a > heck of partitioning in my life. Now I had some unused disk > space and I found it a good idea to install OpenBSD. > > The installers partitioning tool didn't offer me a variant > that keeps my existing partitions. Therefore I immediately > stopped it. But yet it was too late. The partition table was > overwritten. > > The damage is not hard for me because I tersely do backups. > But this behaviour is impudent. This blowfish is not a safe > operating system, it rather is a poorly prepared fugu. > > Bertram > > > -- > Bertram Scharpf > Stuttgart, Deutschland/Germany > http://www.bertram-scharpf.de - You have unused disk space. Rather than spinning up a VM to play in, you've instead opted for letting a new OS, that you have no experience with, access and modify the raw disk bits. - You've tried installing the aforementioned new and unknown OS, on a disk that had other important data, that was already governed by another OS. To me, that doesn't sound like what an experienced user would do. <3,K.
Re: Installer overwrites partition table
On Wed, Aug 24, 2016 at 01:15:29PM +0200, Bertram Scharpf wrote: > Hi, > > first of all, I am an experienced OS installer and I did a > heck of partitioning in my life. Now I had some unused disk > space and I found it a good idea to install OpenBSD. > > The installers partitioning tool didn't offer me a variant > that keeps my existing partitions. Therefore I immediately > stopped it. But yet it was too late. The partition table was > overwritten. > > The damage is not hard for me because I tersely do backups. > But this behaviour is impudent. This blowfish is not a safe > operating system, it rather is a poorly prepared fugu. > > Bertram http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq4.html#Multibooting
Installer overwrites partition table
Hi, first of all, I am an experienced OS installer and I did a heck of partitioning in my life. Now I had some unused disk space and I found it a good idea to install OpenBSD. The installers partitioning tool didn't offer me a variant that keeps my existing partitions. Therefore I immediately stopped it. But yet it was too late. The partition table was overwritten. The damage is not hard for me because I tersely do backups. But this behaviour is impudent. This blowfish is not a safe operating system, it rather is a poorly prepared fugu. Bertram -- Bertram Scharpf Stuttgart, Deutschland/Germany http://www.bertram-scharpf.de