Re: Looking for good, small, canadian version laptop suggestions
IBM sells refurbished ThinkPads: http://www.ibm.com/shop/used/pref http://www-304.ibm.com/shop/americas/content/home/store_IBMPublicCanada/en_CA/icpepcs.html I have bought a couple of laptops from them in the past, with generally good experiences. -- -- Jonathan Thornburg [remove -animal to reply] jth...@astro.indiana-zebra.edu There was of course no way of knowing whether you were being watched at any given moment. How often, or on what system, the Thought Police plugged in on any individual wire was guesswork. It was even conceivable that they watched everybody all the time. -- George Orwell, 1984
Re: Looking for good, small, canadian version laptop suggestions
On 10/16/13 12:27 PM, Gilbert Sanford wrote: I have purchased over 20 machines (about 50% laptop) from dfsdirectsales.com over the last 5 years, and most of them had next day business support still in effect from Dell. I had only one machine that needed service (a Latitude E6510,) and it was repaired at no charge within 2 days. Nice advertisement for Dell here on the list, but not applicable to the original question. From the FAQ: Does DFS Export? No. DFS does not ship items purchased from www.dfsdirectsales.com outside of the 50 United States. Last time I checked, Canada was not yet among them. Bernd
Re: Looking for good, small, canadian version laptop suggestions
On 13-10-17 01:15 AM, Bernte wrote: On 10/16/13 12:27 PM, Gilbert Sanford wrote: I have purchased over 20 machines (about 50% laptop) from dfsdirectsales.com over the last 5 years, and most of them had next day business support still in effect from Dell. I had only one machine that needed service (a Latitude E6510,) and it was repaired at no charge within 2 days. Nice advertisement for Dell here on the list, but not applicable to the original question. From the FAQ: Does DFS Export? No. DFS does not ship items purchased from www.dfsdirectsales.com outside of the 50 United States. Last time I checked, Canada was not yet among them. Although a number of economists are certain this will happen eventually, it isn't the case quite yet! As I posted prevously, Dell Financial Services Canada has its own website: www.dfsdirect.ca. Their stuff tends to be a bit older, and a bit more expensive than the US site, and support isn't *quite* as good, but they still provide a pretty good deal for people with Canadian shipping addresses. Refurb laptops also show up from time to time on Tigerdirect.ca and Newegg.ca, usually at competitive prices. -- -Adam Thompson athom...@athompso.net
Re: Looking for good, small, canadian version laptop suggestions
On 10/14/2013 10:53 PM, Adam Thompson wrote: On 2013-10-12 06:01, g.lister wrote: Interesting. I always feel that I am getting ripped off when buying something refurbished but then again I find my stuff which I bought many years ago still works and is easier to install stuff on (things I care about anyway) and now when looking around I find the new stuff has some major improvements which might come in handy (graphics, CPU, faster RAM) if I settle for the off the shelf stuff (Win* or OS X) but since I don't I have to poke around more to find what I like. I guess I should look as well on refurbished stuff and they come with a warranty, isn't it usually shorter? Replacing a hard drive and adding some more ram plus the right OS may make it into a livable solution. At the end one uses the software. My old Sony is kind of like that lots of things will never work, read webcam, but overall it has proven to be a well made laptop. I also got a more recent Dell, XPS I think, for my significant other and that one is also quite good it has sustained mass impact from some kid handling and is still running. As I said already, buying a consumer-grade laptop new from your local big box retailer generally gets you a one-year warranty. Whereas buying a refurb laptop from a reputable supplier (such as Dell Financial Services, in both Canada USA) gets you a ... one-year warranty :-). You are not getting cutting-edge equipment. But in the case of running *anything* other than OS that comes loaded on the laptop, that's a *good* thing, not a bad thing. I can't even run Windows 7 properly on the vast majority of laptops I can buy at Best Buy today, why would I expect to be able to run OpenBSD? Whereas anything refurb is generally far enough behind the trailing edge that the drivers are already built-in to the OS. I can install Win7 onto a Latitude E4500 and 99% of the drivers will work out of the box. Maybe I don't get the absolute maximum set of functionality, but everything works. I can also install OpenBSD onto a Latitude E4500 and get the same level of functionality. (Assuming you connect to Ethernet at first, to auto-download the Broadcom wireless firmware during first boot.) Keep in mind that although you aren't getting the latest CPU, that's mostly irrelevant today - and especially so for OpenBSD. You aren't getting ripped off when buying from DFS, because they're only charging you (roughly) 1/n of the original price, where n = laptop_age_in_years. Those $299 deals they have for 3-year-old laptops are mostly for units that cost around $1500 brand new! Right now, DFS Canada has several laptops with 8GB of RAM for under $800. How much more would you like to put into it?!? Only the very newest laptops can take more than that anyway! Also, buying business-grade laptops is a sound investment because you don't have to replace them as often. In my experience, the average consumer-grade laptop (including Dell Inspiron and Lenovo IdeaPad) lasts one year, or maybe two if you don't carry it around and don't abuse it at all. The average business-grade laptop (Dell Latitude, Lenovo ThinkPad) lasts about three years under heavy use and abuse, and can last up to five years if handled gently. I do recommend switching out the HDD and installing an SSD just so you never have to worry about crashing the disk if you drop it. Also, a Core 2 Duo with an SSD and enough RAM (4Gb+) usually feels like a quad-core i7 with a 5400rpm HDD and 2Gb RAM... reinforcing my point about CPU horsepower, above. I *prefer* to buy refurb because I know I'm not going to get ripped open on the cutting edge, especially when it comes to running various UNIXes on the hardware. Good luck with your quest, regardless. (FYI: that solar-powered laptop, while nifty, is unlikely to work 100% with OpenBSD - the components will likely be too new and support will be lacking. OTOH, the screenshots show Ubuntu Linux, so I could be wrong here.) Thanks Adam. No I do not need a super power thing, lower battery life and higher weight plus noise, that is what it usually translates to anyway. Your proposition is very sound and confirms my findings and experience so I will just take your advice and check-out some of the older machines instead and the dfs link is a find. The solar laptop should run Ubuntu so maybe it will run OpenBSD or another BSD. Thanks for your input! Cheers, George
Re: Looking for good, small, canadian version laptop suggestions
I have purchased over 20 machines (about 50% laptop) from dfsdirectsales.com over the last 5 years, and most of them had next day business support still in effect from Dell. I had only one machine that needed service (a Latitude E6510,) and it was repaired at no charge within 2 days. Also, please use your favorite search engine to look for dfs coupon codes. I have saved as much as 50% (usually 25 - 30%) using the code at checkout. Retail me not has legitimate codes. I copy the code I want to use and paste and apply it when I check out. The discount will show, if the code is valid. A nice customer service rep at DFS Direct Sales told me about the coupons, so it's not a scam. I have been shopping at the US site. Good luck with your purchase, Gilbert
Re: Looking for good, small, canadian version laptop suggestions
On 2013-10-12 06:01, g.lister wrote: Interesting. I always feel that I am getting ripped off when buying something refurbished but then again I find my stuff which I bought many years ago still works and is easier to install stuff on (things I care about anyway) and now when looking around I find the new stuff has some major improvements which might come in handy (graphics, CPU, faster RAM) if I settle for the off the shelf stuff (Win* or OS X) but since I don't I have to poke around more to find what I like. I guess I should look as well on refurbished stuff and they come with a warranty, isn't it usually shorter? Replacing a hard drive and adding some more ram plus the right OS may make it into a livable solution. At the end one uses the software. My old Sony is kind of like that lots of things will never work, read webcam, but overall it has proven to be a well made laptop. I also got a more recent Dell, XPS I think, for my significant other and that one is also quite good it has sustained mass impact from some kid handling and is still running. As I said already, buying a consumer-grade laptop new from your local big box retailer generally gets you a one-year warranty. Whereas buying a refurb laptop from a reputable supplier (such as Dell Financial Services, in both Canada USA) gets you a ... one-year warranty :-). You are not getting cutting-edge equipment. But in the case of running *anything* other than OS that comes loaded on the laptop, that's a *good* thing, not a bad thing. I can't even run Windows 7 properly on the vast majority of laptops I can buy at Best Buy today, why would I expect to be able to run OpenBSD? Whereas anything refurb is generally far enough behind the trailing edge that the drivers are already built-in to the OS. I can install Win7 onto a Latitude E4500 and 99% of the drivers will work out of the box. Maybe I don't get the absolute maximum set of functionality, but everything works. I can also install OpenBSD onto a Latitude E4500 and get the same level of functionality. (Assuming you connect to Ethernet at first, to auto-download the Broadcom wireless firmware during first boot.) Keep in mind that although you aren't getting the latest CPU, that's mostly irrelevant today - and especially so for OpenBSD. You aren't getting ripped off when buying from DFS, because they're only charging you (roughly) 1/n of the original price, where n = laptop_age_in_years. Those $299 deals they have for 3-year-old laptops are mostly for units that cost around $1500 brand new! Right now, DFS Canada has several laptops with 8GB of RAM for under $800. How much more would you like to put into it?!? Only the very newest laptops can take more than that anyway! Also, buying business-grade laptops is a sound investment because you don't have to replace them as often. In my experience, the average consumer-grade laptop (including Dell Inspiron and Lenovo IdeaPad) lasts one year, or maybe two if you don't carry it around and don't abuse it at all. The average business-grade laptop (Dell Latitude, Lenovo ThinkPad) lasts about three years under heavy use and abuse, and can last up to five years if handled gently. I do recommend switching out the HDD and installing an SSD just so you never have to worry about crashing the disk if you drop it. Also, a Core 2 Duo with an SSD and enough RAM (4Gb+) usually feels like a quad-core i7 with a 5400rpm HDD and 2Gb RAM... reinforcing my point about CPU horsepower, above. I *prefer* to buy refurb because I know I'm not going to get ripped open on the cutting edge, especially when it comes to running various UNIXes on the hardware. Good luck with your quest, regardless. (FYI: that solar-powered laptop, while nifty, is unlikely to work 100% with OpenBSD - the components will likely be too new and support will be lacking. OTOH, the screenshots show Ubuntu Linux, so I could be wrong here.) -- -Adam Thompson athom...@athompso.net
Re: Looking for good, small, canadian version laptop suggestions
/ Adam Thompson wrote on Fri 11.Oct'13 at 11:10:46 -0500 / Hi guys, I am looking for some suggestions for a good, small quite laptop. I was looking at futureshop.ca and bestbuy.ca. I currently have an HP dv3 For OpenBSD, I would never buy something at FutureShop or BestBuy; those are all consumer-oriented Designed For Windows 8 laptops. I either buy Lenovo ThinkPads from an authorized reseller (e.g. the x201t sitting in front of me, and many of the OpenBSD developers use various models of Thinkpad), or I buy off-lease (trailing-edge) Dell Latitude/Precision laptops directly from Dell - see www.dfsdirect.ca for their off-lease selection. The Latitude E4000 series are all quite small and light, are readily available, and AFAIK are fully supported. Right now I'm running 5.3-RELEASE on a Latitude D630 with no issues at all, and IIRC the E4500 should be fully supported as well. Many people cringe at the thought of a used laptop, but note that DFS will offer a 1-year warranty, which is exactly what you get buying consumer-grade laptops from a retail big-box store anyway. My favourite part of the Latitude E series (and most Precision models, too) is that if you get the optional docking base, you can then run dual-DVI off the laptop! -- -Adam Thompson athom...@athompso.net I agree, all my OpenBSD and UNIX machine are bought as refurbished machines. I have found they have much better support in terms of drivers/hardware and they cost a fraction of the price in some cases.
Re: Looking for good, small, canadian version laptop suggestions
On 10/12/2013 11:27 AM, James Griffin wrote: / Adam Thompson wrote on Fri 11.Oct'13 at 11:10:46 -0500 / Hi guys, I am looking for some suggestions for a good, small quite laptop. I was looking at futureshop.ca and bestbuy.ca. I currently have an HP dv3 For OpenBSD, I would never buy something at FutureShop or BestBuy; those are all consumer-oriented Designed For Windows 8 laptops. I either buy Lenovo ThinkPads from an authorized reseller (e.g. the x201t sitting in front of me, and many of the OpenBSD developers use various models of Thinkpad), or I buy off-lease (trailing-edge) Dell Latitude/Precision laptops directly from Dell - see www.dfsdirect.ca for their off-lease selection. The Latitude E4000 series are all quite small and light, are readily available, and AFAIK are fully supported. Right now I'm running 5.3-RELEASE on a Latitude D630 with no issues at all, and IIRC the E4500 should be fully supported as well. Many people cringe at the thought of a used laptop, but note that DFS will offer a 1-year warranty, which is exactly what you get buying consumer-grade laptops from a retail big-box store anyway. My favourite part of the Latitude E series (and most Precision models, too) is that if you get the optional docking base, you can then run dual-DVI off the laptop! -- -Adam Thompson athom...@athompso.net I agree, all my OpenBSD and UNIX machine are bought as refurbished machines. I have found they have much better support in terms of drivers/hardware and they cost a fraction of the price in some cases. Interesting. I always feel that I am getting ripped off when buying something refurbished but then again I find my stuff which I bought many years ago still works and is easier to install stuff on (things I care about anyway) and now when looking around I find the new stuff has some major improvements which might come in handy (graphics, CPU, faster RAM) if I settle for the off the shelf stuff (Win* or OS X) but since I don't I have to poke around more to find what I like. I guess I should look as well on refurbished stuff and they come with a warranty, isn't it usually shorter? Replacing a hard drive and adding some more ram plus the right OS may make it into a livable solution. At the end one uses the software. My old Sony is kind of like that lots of things will never work, read webcam, but overall it has proven to be a well made laptop. I also got a more recent Dell, XPS I think, for my significant other and that one is also quite good it has sustained mass impact from some kid handling and is still running. Thanks for offering your experience.
Re: Looking for good, small, canadian version laptop suggestions
Hi guys, I am looking for some suggestions for a good, small quite laptop. I was looking at futureshop.ca and bestbuy.ca. I currently have an HP dv3 For OpenBSD, I would never buy something at FutureShop or BestBuy; those are all consumer-oriented Designed For Windows 8 laptops. I either buy Lenovo ThinkPads from an authorized reseller (e.g. the x201t sitting in front of me, and many of the OpenBSD developers use various models of Thinkpad), or I buy off-lease (trailing-edge) Dell Latitude/Precision laptops directly from Dell - see www.dfsdirect.ca for their off-lease selection. The Latitude E4000 series are all quite small and light, are readily available, and AFAIK are fully supported. Right now I'm running 5.3-RELEASE on a Latitude D630 with no issues at all, and IIRC the E4500 should be fully supported as well. Many people cringe at the thought of a used laptop, but note that DFS will offer a 1-year warranty, which is exactly what you get buying consumer-grade laptops from a retail big-box store anyway. My favourite part of the Latitude E series (and most Precision models, too) is that if you get the optional docking base, you can then run dual-DVI off the laptop! -- -Adam Thompson athom...@athompso.net
Re: Looking for good, small, canadian version laptop suggestions
On 10/11/2013 06:10 PM, Adam Thompson wrote: Hi guys, I am looking for some suggestions for a good, small quite laptop. I was looking at futureshop.ca and bestbuy.ca. I currently have an HP dv3 For OpenBSD, I would never buy something at FutureShop or BestBuy; those are all consumer-oriented Designed For Windows 8 laptops. I either buy Lenovo ThinkPads from an authorized reseller (e.g. the x201t sitting in front of me, and many of the OpenBSD developers use various models of Thinkpad), or I buy off-lease (trailing-edge) Dell Latitude/Precision laptops directly from Dell - see www.dfsdirect.ca for their off-lease selection. The Latitude E4000 series are all quite small and light, are readily available, and AFAIK are fully supported. Right now I'm running 5.3-RELEASE on a Latitude D630 with no issues at all, and IIRC the E4500 should be fully supported as well. Many people cringe at the thought of a used laptop, but note that DFS will offer a 1-year warranty, which is exactly what you get buying consumer-grade laptops from a retail big-box store anyway. My favourite part of the Latitude E series (and most Precision models, too) is that if you get the optional docking base, you can then run dual-DVI off the laptop! Thanks very much this is very helpful I will keep it in mind. In the mean time I stumbled across this http://solaptop.com/en/products/laptops/ it is pretty cool and the price is right I think I will give it a try when they start taking orders that is. I have two small Shuttles using the Atom D2700 with SSDs and they are really snappy and quiet. I wished they made a proper laptop with an Atom no fans and noise but proper keyboard etc.. and these have solar batteries as well nice :). Thanks for the list of machines and the model numbers. I agree futureshop and bestbuy are consumer vendors getting extended specs is impossibly from their web sites and sometimes even the manuals on the product maker site does not contain the version number or the type of the WIFI card. It is a bit of a hit and miss kind of thing, which is why I posted here, and with the new secure boot it is only getting more difficult to figure out what will work or not. Cheers and thanks again. George
Re: Looking for good, small, canadian version laptop suggestions
On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 7:11 PM, g.lister g.lis...@nodeunit.com wrote: - Original message - From Tomas Bodzar tomas.bod...@gmail.com Sent Wed Oct 9 2013 11:29:07 AM CEST To g.lis...@nodeunit.com Subject Re: Looking for good, small, canadian version laptop suggestions On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 12:14 AM, g.lister g.lis...@nodeunit.com wrote: Hi guys, I am looking for some suggestions for a good, small quite laptop. I was looking at futureshop.ca and bestbuy.ca. I currently have an HP dv3 which runs OpenBSD 5.2 but it is veeey loud some issue with keeping heat down it has i7 cores but I am willing to settle for a lot less threads and power I need it for some vim C coding and basic duties. Really 5.2 version? Why don't you try latest relase or better current which will have much better support of HW in your laptop. I tried 5.3, first, and it installed OK but at boot it stops at mtrr: Intel MTRR check after that is normally the USB stuff. I am not sure but I think I have to go into some kernel debugger to get anywhere from there and I needed to have OpenBSD setup so I can poke around using Michael's book. What was the reaction on -current? Anyway the laptop is noisy with Linux and Windows and I have tried disabling fan always on in the BIOS to no avail, it is basically either badly made or the BIOS is to be blamed or..., which is why I decided to see what other people are using as a laptop and draw some conclusion from that. Thanks for reading. I would like to get something quieter and that also runs OpenBSD without major issues. I saw a lenovo thinkpad x131e on futureshop but it is kind of small on the screen size 11.6 and I am not sure if OpenBSD will work on it. Does anyone care to mention what they are using. Thanks in advance. Cheers, George
Re: Looking for good, small, canadian version laptop suggestions
On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 12:14 AM, g.lister g.lis...@nodeunit.com wrote: Hi guys, I am looking for some suggestions for a good, small quite laptop. I was looking at futureshop.ca and bestbuy.ca. I currently have an HP dv3 which runs OpenBSD 5.2 but it is veeey loud some issue with keeping heat down it has i7 cores but I am willing to settle for a lot less threads and power I need it for some vim C coding and basic duties. Really 5.2 version? Why don't you try latest relase or better current which will have much better support of HW in your laptop. I would like to get something quieter and that also runs OpenBSD without major issues. I saw a lenovo thinkpad x131e on futureshop but it is kind of small on the screen size 11.6 and I am not sure if OpenBSD will work on it. Does anyone care to mention what they are using. Thanks in advance. Cheers, George
Re: Looking for good, small, canadian version laptop suggestions
- Original message - From Tomas Bodzar tomas.bod...@gmail.com Sent Wed Oct 9 2013 11:29:07 AM CEST To g.lis...@nodeunit.com Subject Re: Looking for good, small, canadian version laptop suggestions On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 12:14 AM, g.lister g.lis...@nodeunit.com wrote: Hi guys, I am looking for some suggestions for a good, small quite laptop. I was looking at futureshop.ca and bestbuy.ca. I currently have an HP dv3 which runs OpenBSD 5.2 but it is veeey loud some issue with keeping heat down it has i7 cores but I am willing to settle for a lot less threads and power I need it for some vim C coding and basic duties. Really 5.2 version? Why don't you try latest relase or better current which will have much better support of HW in your laptop. I tried 5.3, first, and it installed OK but at boot it stops at mtrr: Intel MTRR check after that is normally the USB stuff. I am not sure but I think I have to go into some kernel debugger to get anywhere from there and I needed to have OpenBSD setup so I can poke around using Michael's book. Anyway the laptop is noisy with Linux and Windows and I have tried disabling fan always on in the BIOS to no avail, it is basically either badly made or the BIOS is to be blamed or..., which is why I decided to see what other people are using as a laptop and draw some conclusion from that. Thanks for reading. I would like to get something quieter and that also runs OpenBSD without major issues. I saw a lenovo thinkpad x131e on futureshop but it is kind of small on the screen size 11.6 and I am not sure if OpenBSD will work on it. Does anyone care to mention what they are using. Thanks in advance. Cheers, George
Looking for good, small, canadian version laptop suggestions
Hi guys, I am looking for some suggestions for a good, small quite laptop. I was looking at futureshop.ca and bestbuy.ca. I currently have an HP dv3 which runs OpenBSD 5.2 but it is veeey loud some issue with keeping heat down it has i7 cores but I am willing to settle for a lot less threads and power I need it for some vim C coding and basic duties. I would like to get something quieter and that also runs OpenBSD without major issues. I saw a lenovo thinkpad x131e on futureshop but it is kind of small on the screen size 11.6 and I am not sure if OpenBSD will work on it. Does anyone care to mention what they are using. Thanks in advance. Cheers, George
