[Mixxx-devel] Library Layout Redesign [Wiki]

[Joan Marcè i Igual]

Hi RJ,


> Interesting -- do Library Track Tables need a title now? In Mixxx 2.0 we
> know what playlist is selected based on the highlight in the sidebar tree,
> but this may be harder to tell in particular because the focus highlight is
> somewhat subtle. Maybe we could clear up the need for keeping this
> highlight in sync by adding a title to the track tables. For example, when
> you have AutoDJ and Playlist: Foobaz showing, if the sidebar expanded is
> showing the list of playlists with "Foobaz" highlighted then you have no
> way of know what the AutoDJ track table is (other than seeing the ADJ
> buttons).
>
A title can be a good start to show what is selected


> Or, for the specific case of two playlists showing at the same time --
> each library track table could be styled with a particular color (e.g. a
> rim around it or a background color / alternate row color), and the
> expanded sidebar can put a colored dot next to each playlist to signify
> which library track table they are loaded.
>
> From a UX perspective, I think I may find it jarring if changing the
> focused library track table caused the library sidebar expanded to change.
> It may even be frustrating if I was trying to do something with the sidebar
> in the state that it was in and then changing the focus made it change even
> though I didn't touch the sidebar at all.
>
I think that with this you just solved all the drag idea =) ! What about
only changing the library sidebar expanded when the user clicks a button in
the library sidebar? This should allow both drag and drop and respecting
the user experience. The same goes for the track tables they can change by
both a library sidebar or a library sidebar expanded action. This will
remove the option to have two instances of every feature's sidebar
expanded, like I explained in the "100 crates example" but it's not a big
problem.


> IMO, apps that have "action at a distance" can be frustrating because you
> have to fiddle with it to get it into the state you want -- if every action
> only has local consequences then that can lead to simpler mental models and
> less fiddling needed by the user. Sometimes this comes with a cost of extra
> user actions needed but that's a trade-off.
>
> Examples of what I mean by "local consequences":
> - Click "Playlists" button bar item -> loads playlist list into the
> expanded sidebar.
> - Drag "My Playlist" from playlist expanded sidebar view to one of the
> track tables -> loads that playlist into that track table.
> - Hit "X" button on track table view to dismiss/close it -> closes just
> that track table view with no other side effects)
>
Yes I understand, it's very important "local consequences"

I will be waiting for your answer,
Joan

>
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Re: [Mixxx-devel] Library Layout Redesign [Wiki]

[re-cycle]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Mon, 06 Jun 2016 20:22:08 -0100 "RJ Ryan" 
wrote:

>Or, for the specific case of two playlists showing at the same
>time -- each
>library track table could be styled with a particular color (e.g.
>a rim
>around it or a background color / alternate row color), and the
>expanded
>sidebar can put a colored dot next to each playlist to signify
>which
>library track table they are loaded.
>

I think the coloring suggestions for visual linking stated here are
great, especially the alternate row coloring, which I hadn't
thought of as a possibility. Both at the same time might even work.

Also I want to thank you directly RJ for your last two commentaries
on this Library Redesign topic, they are helping me orient myself
around the issue. This whole scheme has left me pretty confused
until now; aside from Midnight Commander, I've never been a fan or
a user of multi-pane file managers. Your suggestions for naming
conventions were especially illuminating/helpful for me in
distinguishing functions.

>>From a UX perspective, I think I may find it jarring if changing
>the
>focused library track table caused the library sidebar expanded to
>change.
>It may even be frustrating if I was trying to do something with
>the sidebar
>in the state that it was in and then changing the focus made it
>change even
>though I didn't touch the sidebar at all.
>

This is something I've been thinking all along. It might be
mitigated if the last place you were at remained
highlighted/selected (remembered) as the Library Sidebar got
switched around in response to the Library Track Table.
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Re: [Mixxx-devel] Library Layout Redesign [Wiki]

[RJ Ryan]

On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 1:50 PM, Joan Marcè i Igual 
wrote:

> Hi RJ,
> thank you for your thoughts
>
>
>> I see -- thanks for the explanation. Sorry to nit-pick but could I push
>> for more salient names for these? I think it's already causing confusion
>> :). Skin designers will probably also be confused.
>> We already have  and  XML nodes.
>> What about  for the button bar, 
>> for the expanded sidebar view, and  for the track tables?
>> Instead of Left and Right? Since from what I understand, LibraryLeftPane
>> is the expanded sidebar view for the feature?
>>
> Yes it is, I like your names so I will be using them since now for the
> skin.xml (I'll update it in the wiki as soon as possible)
>
> I think I'm getting what you mean -- let me restate it to make sure:
>>
>> Each library feature will have two "loadable views" associated with it --
>> the expanded sidebar view and the track table view. (e.g. in the case of
>> Playlists, the tree view of current playlist names and the track table view
>> for the currently selected playlist).
>>
> Yes it's exactly like this
>
>
>> Request: In future emails can you pick more descriptive words than
>> right/left? Instead use a word that describes its purpose so we can be sure
>> we're talking about the same thing.
>>
> Totally agree, it can lead to a lot of confusion what about:
> Button Bar becomes Library Side Bar (as you suggested with the skin XML)
> Left Pane becomes Library Side Bar Expanded (as you suggested too)
> Right Panes become Library Track tables
>
>
>> I think instead of coupling the track table view and the sidebar expanded
>> view together into a "LibraryPaneManager", the expanded sidebar view should
>> instead be associated with the selected feature in the library
>> side-button-bar. I don't see a strong reason for coupling the current
>> selected track table view with the current selected expanded sidebar view.
>> It seems it will limit use cases we're discussing where you switch around
>> to different parts of the library while keeping a previously selected
>> playlist/crate open to drag/drop tracks. Additionally, since there can be 1
>> to many "Right" (library track table view) widgets -- it seems we are
>> already going break the coupling logically.
>>
> This is because in the LibrarySideBarExpanded when the user opens the same
> feature multiple times int different library track table view widgets and
> focuses one of the track widgets the expanded sidebar should change too (in
> the Nemo file manager this is shown) to reflect the current state of the
> focused pane. This allows the user to have different sidebar expanded
> states for different track tables.
>
> For example if I have about 100 crates and in one track table I open the
> "crate 1" and in the other track table I open the "crate 100" when I click
> the "crate 100" track table I want the Sidebar Expanded to show the tree
> with the "crate 100" selected and if I click a track in the "crate 1" track
> table I want the Sidebar Expanded to show the tree with the "crate 1"
> selected.
>
>
Interesting -- do Library Track Tables need a title now? In Mixxx 2.0 we
know what playlist is selected based on the highlight in the sidebar tree,
but this may be harder to tell in particular because the focus highlight is
somewhat subtle. Maybe we could clear up the need for keeping this
highlight in sync by adding a title to the track tables. For example, when
you have AutoDJ and Playlist: Foobaz showing, if the sidebar expanded is
showing the list of playlists with "Foobaz" highlighted then you have no
way of know what the AutoDJ track table is (other than seeing the ADJ
buttons).

Or, for the specific case of two playlists showing at the same time -- each
library track table could be styled with a particular color (e.g. a rim
around it or a background color / alternate row color), and the expanded
sidebar can put a colored dot next to each playlist to signify which
library track table they are loaded.

>From a UX perspective, I think I may find it jarring if changing the
focused library track table caused the library sidebar expanded to change.
It may even be frustrating if I was trying to do something with the sidebar
in the state that it was in and then changing the focus made it change even
though I didn't touch the sidebar at all.

(and now some ramblings:)

IMO, apps that have "action at a distance" can be frustrating because you
have to fiddle with it to get it into the state you want -- if every action
only has local consequences then that can lead to simpler mental models and
less fiddling needed by the user. Sometimes this comes with a cost of extra
user actions needed but that's a trade-off.

Examples of what I mean by "local consequences":
- Click "Playlists" button bar item -> loads playlist list into the
expanded sidebar.
- Drag "My Playlist" from playlist expanded sidebar view to one of the
track tables -> loads that playlist into that track table.
- Hit 

[Mixxx-devel] Library Layout Redesign [Wiki]

[Joan Marcè i Igual]

Hi RJ,
thank you for your thoughts


> I see -- thanks for the explanation. Sorry to nit-pick but could I push
> for more salient names for these? I think it's already causing confusion
> :). Skin designers will probably also be confused.
> We already have  and  XML nodes.
> What about  for the button bar, 
> for the expanded sidebar view, and  for the track tables?
> Instead of Left and Right? Since from what I understand, LibraryLeftPane
> is the expanded sidebar view for the feature?
>
Yes it is, I like your names so I will be using them since now for the
skin.xml (I'll update it in the wiki as soon as possible)

I think I'm getting what you mean -- let me restate it to make sure:
>
> Each library feature will have two "loadable views" associated with it --
> the expanded sidebar view and the track table view. (e.g. in the case of
> Playlists, the tree view of current playlist names and the track table view
> for the currently selected playlist).
>
Yes it's exactly like this


> Request: In future emails can you pick more descriptive words than
> right/left? Instead use a word that describes its purpose so we can be sure
> we're talking about the same thing.
>
Totally agree, it can lead to a lot of confusion what about:
Button Bar becomes Library Side Bar (as you suggested with the skin XML)
Left Pane becomes Library Side Bar Expanded (as you suggested too)
Right Panes become Library Track tables


> I think instead of coupling the track table view and the sidebar expanded
> view together into a "LibraryPaneManager", the expanded sidebar view should
> instead be associated with the selected feature in the library
> side-button-bar. I don't see a strong reason for coupling the current
> selected track table view with the current selected expanded sidebar view.
> It seems it will limit use cases we're discussing where you switch around
> to different parts of the library while keeping a previously selected
> playlist/crate open to drag/drop tracks. Additionally, since there can be 1
> to many "Right" (library track table view) widgets -- it seems we are
> already going break the coupling logically.
>
This is because in the LibrarySideBarExpanded when the user opens the same
feature multiple times int different library track table view widgets and
focuses one of the track widgets the expanded sidebar should change too (in
the Nemo file manager this is shown) to reflect the current state of the
focused pane. This allows the user to have different sidebar expanded
states for different track tables.

For example if I have about 100 crates and in one track table I open the
"crate 1" and in the other track table I open the "crate 100" when I click
the "crate 100" track table I want the Sidebar Expanded to show the tree
with the "crate 100" selected and if I click a track in the "crate 1" track
table I want the Sidebar Expanded to show the tree with the "crate 1"
selected.

I will be waiting for your answer,
Joan

>
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Re: [Mixxx-devel] Library Layout Redesign [Wiki]

[RJ Ryan]

On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 7:43 AM, Joan Marcè i Igual 
wrote:

>
> I'd like to push back on this a little bit just to see whether it can be
>> made more general.
>>
>> Why hard-code any orientations into this? And why 2 panes instead of N?
>>
> Yes it will be N panes (maybe it's not well explained) but for simplicity
> I only created the examples with 2 pane. There will be only 2 panes for
> each feature (left and right pane) but there can be up to N right pane
> containers.
>
>
>>
>> What if a skin author wanted a "top" and "bottom" frame? Or 3 frames? Or
>> only 1 frame?
>>
>>  Although it has the names left pane and right pane it has nothing to do
> with orientation, there will be the skin elements *LibraryLeftPane *and
> *LibraryRightPane* that can be declared anywhere, and the
> *LibraryRightPane* can be declared N times to allow the skin designer to
> have as many right panes as he/she wants.
>
>

I see -- thanks for the explanation. Sorry to nit-pick but could I push for
more salient names for these? I think it's already causing confusion :).
Skin designers will probably also be confused.

We already have  and  XML nodes.

What about  for the button bar, 
for the expanded sidebar view, and  for the track tables?

Instead of Left and Right? Since from what I understand, LibraryLeftPane is
the expanded sidebar view for the feature?


> Maybe instead of coding specific orientations, we just keep a list of
>> available panes and then the logic for considering which pane to load a
>> library feature's view into can consider the least recently used pane (or
>> whatever the scheme is for loading views to panes)?
>>
>> BTW, maybe I missed it -- but how will the user choose which pane to load
>> a sidebar item into? Is it automatic or a specific choice by the user (i.e.
>> dragging an item from the sidebar into a pane).
>>
>> Is automatic, when the user has a pane container focused and clicks to
> load a feature in the button bar the feature is loaded in the current
> focused pane container. With this it should be very evident to the user
> which is the current focused pane to avoid confusion. Even so I like the
> dragging idea and if there's enough time I'll add it.
>

> Could you add some actual skin XML examples for various configurations?
>> i.e. maybe an example of how to skin each of your example mock ups and then
>> an example of how to do a completely different mockup (i.e. with the
>> sidebar on the top?).
>>
> I'll add it as soon as possible
>
>
>> In the updated diagram, it looks like LibraryPaneManager creates two
>> WLibrarys -- but in the skin logic, there is no way to constrain the skin
>> author on how many WLibrary widgets to create -- so I'm just curious how
>> that would look in skin.xml such that you can still style/position each
>> widget individually, etc. Does LibraryPaneManager get access to WLibrary
>> through a bindWidget process similar to how the Library class does today?
>> (Is LibraryPaneManager in the "frontend" or the "backend" under this
>> design?)
>>
>> It is the *LegacySkinParser* the one who creates the two *WLibrarys and 
>> *there
> will be two different *WLibrarys* for each *LibraryPaneManager.*  One
> will be the right pane and the other for the left. Every
> *LibraryPaneManager* will always have this two widgets but the *WLibrary* 
> dedicated
> to the left pane of every *LibraryPaneManager* will be put in one stacked
> widget with the other left widgets of other *LibraryPaneManagers* so,
> when a user focuses one pane it's easy to show the left pane of the focused
> right pane container.
>

I think I'm getting what you mean -- let me restate it to make sure:

Each library feature will have two "loadable views" associated with it --
the expanded sidebar view and the track table view. (e.g. in the case of
Playlists, the tree view of current playlist names and the track table view
for the currently selected playlist).

Request: In future emails can you pick more descriptive words than
right/left? Instead use a word that describes its purpose so we can be sure
we're talking about the same thing.

I think instead of coupling the track table view and the sidebar expanded
view together into a "LibraryPaneManager", the expanded sidebar view should
instead be associated with the selected feature in the library
side-button-bar. I don't see a strong reason for coupling the current
selected track table view with the current selected expanded sidebar view.
It seems it will limit use cases we're discussing where you switch around
to different parts of the library while keeping a previously selected
playlist/crate open to drag/drop tracks. Additionally, since there can be 1
to many "Right" (library track table view) widgets -- it seems we are
already going break the coupling logically.



> And with this the LibraryPane is a very frontend element. However, it
> relies absolutely on the LibraryFeature interface that does all the backend
> tasks.
>
> I will be 

[Mixxx-devel] Library Layout Redesign [Wiki]

[Joan Marcè i Igual]

Hi,

Thinking about it the drop target needs to be shown somewhere in the
layout, Ferran's idea seems better to me. Also, there's the option to
convert the Library drop target into a feature itself with only a right
pane. This will mix both Ferran's and Markus' idea. The user can select
this feature that is shown in one of the panes and then he can drop
directly from one pane to the other. This should satisfy many of the
problems of the drop target that Daniel pointed.

How will a user without a pointing device move a track? Maybe like this?

* Tab to the source track table
* Select the source track using UP / Down
* Crtl+C
* Tab to the ButtonBar
* Select the LibraryTree Button using UP / Down
* Tab to the LibraryTree pane
* Select a Target playlist by UP / Down
* drop the Track By Ctrl+V
* for the second track he can tab directly to the open drop target (which
has saved it's state)

I will be waiting for your answers,
Joan

On Sun, 5 Jun 2016 21:27 Daniel Schürmann,  wrote:

> Hi Markus,
>
> thank you for the detailed explanation.
>
> Yes this will work. The back-end should be also doable.
> Your solution fits nicely to your drop target idea. I like the idea,
> that the drop target pane can contain a list of playlists
> or a track table.
>
> The other good idea, is Joan original design + the drop target flyout
> proposed by Ferran.
>
> What are the pros and cons?
>
> Here some of goals for the library redesign:
> * Maximum freedom for the skin designer
> * usable on small screens.
> * De-cluttered interface
> * Keyboard and Midi-Controller controllable
> * Easy to use (Offer only one solution for one use-case.)
>
> Both designs are leaking here and there of these goals but the original
> solution seams to be closer.
> It fully woks on a single left pane set-up. It features 1 to n panes.
> All panes are treated the same.
> No need for a feature to provide a single widget and a two widgets
> appearance.
>
> Finally it is probably a matter of taste.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Am 05.06.2016 um 16:01 schrieb Markus Klösges:
> > I hope this list can handle attachments and it won't get squashed into
> > the text.
> >
> > See an attached mockup to (hopefully) make it more clear. A skin could
> > have as many CondensedLibraries as it wants to have and they would be
> > independent of each other.
> >
> > I don't know if we would need a LibraryPaneManager for every Pane,
> > maybe one Manager for the whole stuff is enough.
> > Each LibraryFeature provides the widget for left and right pane and an
> > additional DropDownPopulator that is working similar to the current
> > getChildModel() they provide to build the sub-tree but is used to add
> > elements to the dropDown.
> >
> > What do you think?
> >
> > Am 05.06.2016 um 14:50 schrieb Markus Klösges:
> >> Hi Daniel,
> >>
> >>  > We have discussed such a model earlier, but it was difficult to
> >>  > generalize is in the back-end.
> >> Hm, I don't really get that point.
> >>
> >> Each library Feature would need
> >>   * a 'default' widget, if no child element of it is selected (Playlists
> >> would display all Playlists there),
> >>   * a widget for the left pane (for Playlists that would be a tree/list
> >> of all the playlists in DB)
> >>   * a widget if a child element is selected (which would be the
> >> track-table-widget for the Playlists).
> >>   * a list of child-Elements to display in the dropDown
> >>
> >> despite the last point, all that is also needed and planned for the
> >> other approach - isn't it? And such a List wouldn't be so dramatic to
> >> implement I think.
> >>
> >> Then one would need an additional WCondensedLibrary to display the
> >> LibraryFeatures without the leftPane but with a dropDown at the top.
> >>
> >> Probably I'm not into it as deep as you guys. So don't hesitate to tell
> >> me I'm wrong ;-)
> >> I just like to understand the difference in your approach to learn from
> >> it ;-)
> >>
> >> Am 05.06.2016 um 14:13 schrieb Daniel Schürmann:
> >>> Hi Markus,
> >>>
> >>> thank you for you second library model.
> >>>
> >>> We have discussed such a model earlier, but it was difficult to
> >>> generalize is in the back-end.
> >>>
> >>> The current model has a nice generalized object model.
> >>> See the exploded drawing on:
> >>> http://www.mixxx.org/wiki/doku.php/library_layout_redesign
> >>>
> >>> For my feeling the switching of the left pane will happen
> >>> "as expected".
> >>> If done right, it will offer the right view for every common use case
> >>> without being cluttered.
> >>> The left pane could always support the DJ best for the specific task.
> >>> Paired with a new drop target, it will IMHO work well.
> >>>
> >>> If you wish to do a mock-up, you may Inkscape and this template:
> >>> https://github.com/jmigual/mixxxDocuments/blob/master/Layout_2.svg
> >>> or any other tool.
> >>>
> >>>
>  Actually from a UX point of view I don't really like the approach to
>  re-use the left pane for all open rightPanes, 

Re: [Mixxx-devel] Library Layout Redesign [Wiki]

[Daniel Schürmann]

Hi Markus,

thank you for the detailed explanation.

Yes this will work. The back-end should be also doable.
Your solution fits nicely to your drop target idea. I like the idea, 
that the drop target pane can contain a list of playlists
or a track table.

The other good idea, is Joan original design + the drop target flyout 
proposed by Ferran.

What are the pros and cons?

Here some of goals for the library redesign:
* Maximum freedom for the skin designer
* usable on small screens.
* De-cluttered interface
* Keyboard and Midi-Controller controllable
* Easy to use (Offer only one solution for one use-case.)

Both designs are leaking here and there of these goals but the original 
solution seams to be closer.
It fully woks on a single left pane set-up. It features 1 to n panes. 
All panes are treated the same.
No need for a feature to provide a single widget and a two widgets 
appearance.

Finally it is probably a matter of taste.






Am 05.06.2016 um 16:01 schrieb Markus Klösges:
> I hope this list can handle attachments and it won't get squashed into 
> the text.
>
> See an attached mockup to (hopefully) make it more clear. A skin could 
> have as many CondensedLibraries as it wants to have and they would be 
> independent of each other.
>
> I don't know if we would need a LibraryPaneManager for every Pane, 
> maybe one Manager for the whole stuff is enough.
> Each LibraryFeature provides the widget for left and right pane and an 
> additional DropDownPopulator that is working similar to the current 
> getChildModel() they provide to build the sub-tree but is used to add 
> elements to the dropDown.
>
> What do you think?
>
> Am 05.06.2016 um 14:50 schrieb Markus Klösges:
>> Hi Daniel,
>>
>>  > We have discussed such a model earlier, but it was difficult to
>>  > generalize is in the back-end.
>> Hm, I don't really get that point.
>>
>> Each library Feature would need
>>   * a 'default' widget, if no child element of it is selected (Playlists
>> would display all Playlists there),
>>   * a widget for the left pane (for Playlists that would be a tree/list
>> of all the playlists in DB)
>>   * a widget if a child element is selected (which would be the
>> track-table-widget for the Playlists).
>>   * a list of child-Elements to display in the dropDown
>>
>> despite the last point, all that is also needed and planned for the
>> other approach - isn't it? And such a List wouldn't be so dramatic to
>> implement I think.
>>
>> Then one would need an additional WCondensedLibrary to display the
>> LibraryFeatures without the leftPane but with a dropDown at the top.
>>
>> Probably I'm not into it as deep as you guys. So don't hesitate to tell
>> me I'm wrong ;-)
>> I just like to understand the difference in your approach to learn from
>> it ;-)
>>
>> Am 05.06.2016 um 14:13 schrieb Daniel Schürmann:
>>> Hi Markus,
>>>
>>> thank you for you second library model.
>>>
>>> We have discussed such a model earlier, but it was difficult to
>>> generalize is in the back-end.
>>>
>>> The current model has a nice generalized object model.
>>> See the exploded drawing on:
>>> http://www.mixxx.org/wiki/doku.php/library_layout_redesign
>>>
>>> For my feeling the switching of the left pane will happen
>>> "as expected".
>>> If done right, it will offer the right view for every common use case
>>> without being cluttered.
>>> The left pane could always support the DJ best for the specific task.
>>> Paired with a new drop target, it will IMHO work well.
>>>
>>> If you wish to do a mock-up, you may Inkscape and this template:
>>> https://github.com/jmigual/mixxxDocuments/blob/master/Layout_2.svg
>>> or any other tool.
>>>
>>>
 Actually from a UX point of view I don't really like the approach to
 re-use the left pane for all open rightPanes, because users may be
 confused of it switching around all the time. What about such a 
 solution?:

 By default have the Button-Bar, the Tree next to it and the TrackTable
 visible (mainly as it is today, but with the button bar added).

 A Button in the skin to open an additional RightPane next to it (or
 anywhere it fits) and there having a kind of drop-down in the 
 header of
 the new RightPane with which you can select the feature to load.
 If the pane is empty, you could choose from Library, AutoDJ, Crates,
 Playlists.
 If you select Library, you get the usual Track-Table loaded inside 
 the pane.
 If you select Crates, the list of all crates is loaded to the pane,
 which can then be used as drop-targets for sorting (see above).
 Then you can click on one Crate-Name to show the content of the 
 crate in
 the pane instead. The drop-Down at the top would then show (Library,
 AutoDJ, Crates, -divider-, [insertAllCratesHere], -divider-, 
 Playlists).
 So that you can quickly switch between crates and also to other
 LibraryFeatures. If we could make that drop-down with expandable items
 

Re: [Mixxx-devel] Library Layout Redesign [Wiki]

[Markus Klösges]

 > By the way Markus the condensed library looks interesting, with this it
 > will be possible to have multiple right panes showing at the same time or
 > only one right pane and different CondensedLibraries?

For me the right pane and the CondensedLibraries are Function-Wise the 
same. Each one offers the access to all Features and there can be as 
many open as the user/skin designer likes.
Having CondensedLibraries and additionally the multiple rightPanes 
sharing one leftPane would be very unintuitive, so I wouldn't want to do 
that. Either one or the other way I think.
Feature-Wise I think both approaches give the same, except from the 
dragDrop problem of your current approach. I think.
Is that more clear?

 > 1) Select desired song in some feature (library, AutoDJ, another crate,
 > playlists...)
 > 2) Drag song to Crates button in Button bar without releasing the mouse
 > 3) The left pane of Crates is shown (crates tree)
 > 4) Release the mouse over "Crate 11" tree item
That sounds complicated and means dragging each song over the full 
display and also wait for the leftPanel to load the new Feature, because 
you need some delay to make it not flicker all the time I think.
-> I like that as an additional way because its quite intuitive. But if 
I think of sorting some dozens of tracks to their crates, it would be 
very annoying to always open the crate-tree first by hovering over the 
button and then find the right crate. Because you can't tell where the 
crate will be in the tree before seeing it.



Am 05.06.2016 um 17:16 schrieb Joan Marcè i Igual:
> Hi,
> as it is the design now, when the user tries to drag a song to a playlist
> when it selects the song the let pane will change and it won't allow to
> drag the song to the desired playlist. My idea was to allow the user to
> drag the song(s) directly to the button bar, so when the user does this
> automatically the left pane of the feature below the mouse is shown.
> For example to add a song to the crate "Crate 11" with these crates
>
> - Crate 1
> + Sub "Crate 11"
> - Crate 2
> - Crate 3
>
> 1) Select desired song in some feature (library, AutoDJ, another crate,
> playlists...)
> 2) Drag song to Crates button in Button bar without releasing the mouse
> 3) The left pane of Crates is shown (crates tree)
> 4) Release the mouse over "Crate 11" tree item
>
> another option (complementary with this proposed) is that if the user
> releases the mouse when is over the button pane (instead of the tree item
> in the example) a context menu is open allowing to select which tree item
> is the receiver of the selected song. To do this with the previous example
> it will be like this:
>
> 1) Select desired song in some feature(library, AutoDJ, another crate,
> playlists...)
> 2) Drag song to Crates button in Button bar and release the mouse
> 3) A context menu is shown only with crates elements
> 4) Select the desired crate to add the song
>
> And Daniel with this I think that there will be no need for the Full tree
> and we can continue to use the current back-end model. Also the copy to
> context menu it will be necessary to allow the user to add a song to a
> crate/playlist with a controller instead than a mouse (I suppose that when
> you refer copy to context menu you are referring the "add to playlist...",
> "add to crate..." options of the context menu.
>
> By the way Markus the condensed library looks interesting, with this it
> will be possible to have multiple right panes showing at the same time or
> only one right pane and different CondensedLibraries?
>
> Oh and RAWRR yes there will be a playlists button it does not appear
> because I haven't added in the draw for simplicity. The idea is not to
> remove buttons ;)
>
> I will be waiting for your answer,
> Joan
>
> On Sun, 5 Jun 2016 at 16:04 Markus Klösges  wrote:
>
>> I hope this list can handle attachments and it won't get squashed into
>> the text.
>>
>> See an attached mockup to (hopefully) make it more clear. A skin could
>> have as many CondensedLibraries as it wants to have and they would be
>> independent of each other.
>>
>> I don't know if we would need a LibraryPaneManager for every Pane, maybe
>> one Manager for the whole stuff is enough.
>> Each LibraryFeature provides the widget for left and right pane and an
>> additional DropDownPopulator that is working similar to the current
>> getChildModel() they provide to build the sub-tree but is used to add
>> elements to the dropDown.
>>
>> What do you think?
>>
>> Am 05.06.2016 um 14:50 schrieb Markus Klösges:
>>> Hi Daniel,
>>>
>>>  > We have discussed such a model earlier, but it was difficult to
>>>  > generalize is in the back-end.
>>> Hm, I don't really get that point.
>>>
>>> Each library Feature would need
>>>   * a 'default' widget, if no child element of it is selected (Playlists
>>> would display all Playlists there),
>>>   * a widget for the left pane (for Playlists that would be a tree/list
>>> of all 

[Mixxx-devel] Library Layout Redesign [Wiki]

[Joan Marcè i Igual]

Hi,
as it is the design now, when the user tries to drag a song to a playlist
when it selects the song the let pane will change and it won't allow to
drag the song to the desired playlist. My idea was to allow the user to
drag the song(s) directly to the button bar, so when the user does this
automatically the left pane of the feature below the mouse is shown.
For example to add a song to the crate "Crate 11" with these crates

- Crate 1
+ Sub "Crate 11"
- Crate 2
- Crate 3

1) Select desired song in some feature (library, AutoDJ, another crate,
playlists...)
2) Drag song to Crates button in Button bar without releasing the mouse
3) The left pane of Crates is shown (crates tree)
4) Release the mouse over "Crate 11" tree item

another option (complementary with this proposed) is that if the user
releases the mouse when is over the button pane (instead of the tree item
in the example) a context menu is open allowing to select which tree item
is the receiver of the selected song. To do this with the previous example
it will be like this:

1) Select desired song in some feature(library, AutoDJ, another crate,
playlists...)
2) Drag song to Crates button in Button bar and release the mouse
3) A context menu is shown only with crates elements
4) Select the desired crate to add the song

And Daniel with this I think that there will be no need for the Full tree
and we can continue to use the current back-end model. Also the copy to
context menu it will be necessary to allow the user to add a song to a
crate/playlist with a controller instead than a mouse (I suppose that when
you refer copy to context menu you are referring the "add to playlist...",
"add to crate..." options of the context menu.

By the way Markus the condensed library looks interesting, with this it
will be possible to have multiple right panes showing at the same time or
only one right pane and different CondensedLibraries?

Oh and RAWRR yes there will be a playlists button it does not appear
because I haven't added in the draw for simplicity. The idea is not to
remove buttons ;)

I will be waiting for your answer,
Joan

On Sun, 5 Jun 2016 at 16:04 Markus Klösges  wrote:

> I hope this list can handle attachments and it won't get squashed into
> the text.
>
> See an attached mockup to (hopefully) make it more clear. A skin could
> have as many CondensedLibraries as it wants to have and they would be
> independent of each other.
>
> I don't know if we would need a LibraryPaneManager for every Pane, maybe
> one Manager for the whole stuff is enough.
> Each LibraryFeature provides the widget for left and right pane and an
> additional DropDownPopulator that is working similar to the current
> getChildModel() they provide to build the sub-tree but is used to add
> elements to the dropDown.
>
> What do you think?
>
> Am 05.06.2016 um 14:50 schrieb Markus Klösges:
> > Hi Daniel,
> >
> >  > We have discussed such a model earlier, but it was difficult to
> >  > generalize is in the back-end.
> > Hm, I don't really get that point.
> >
> > Each library Feature would need
> >   * a 'default' widget, if no child element of it is selected (Playlists
> > would display all Playlists there),
> >   * a widget for the left pane (for Playlists that would be a tree/list
> > of all the playlists in DB)
> >   * a widget if a child element is selected (which would be the
> > track-table-widget for the Playlists).
> >   * a list of child-Elements to display in the dropDown
> >
> > despite the last point, all that is also needed and planned for the
> > other approach - isn't it? And such a List wouldn't be so dramatic to
> > implement I think.
> >
> > Then one would need an additional WCondensedLibrary to display the
> > LibraryFeatures without the leftPane but with a dropDown at the top.
> >
> > Probably I'm not into it as deep as you guys. So don't hesitate to tell
> > me I'm wrong ;-)
> > I just like to understand the difference in your approach to learn from
> > it ;-)
> >
> > Am 05.06.2016 um 14:13 schrieb Daniel Schürmann:
> >> Hi Markus,
> >>
> >> thank you for you second library model.
> >>
> >> We have discussed such a model earlier, but it was difficult to
> >> generalize is in the back-end.
> >>
> >> The current model has a nice generalized object model.
> >> See the exploded drawing on:
> >> http://www.mixxx.org/wiki/doku.php/library_layout_redesign
> >>
> >> For my feeling the switching of the left pane will happen
> >> "as expected".
> >> If done right, it will offer the right view for every common use case
> >> without being cluttered.
> >> The left pane could always support the DJ best for the specific task.
> >> Paired with a new drop target, it will IMHO work well.
> >>
> >> If you wish to do a mock-up, you may Inkscape and this template:
> >> https://github.com/jmigual/mixxxDocuments/blob/master/Layout_2.svg
> >> or any other tool.
> >>
> >>
> >>> Actually from a UX point of view I don't really like the approach to
> >>> re-use 

Re: [Mixxx-devel] Library Layout Redesign [Wiki]

[Markus Klösges]

Hi Daniel,

 > We have discussed such a model earlier, but it was difficult to
 > generalize is in the back-end.
Hm, I don't really get that point.

Each library Feature would need
  * a 'default' widget, if no child element of it is selected (Playlists 
would display all Playlists there),
  * a widget for the left pane (for Playlists that would be a tree/list 
of all the playlists in DB)
  * a widget if a child element is selected (which would be the 
track-table-widget for the Playlists).
  * a list of child-Elements to display in the dropDown

despite the last point, all that is also needed and planned for the 
other approach - isn't it? And such a List wouldn't be so dramatic to 
implement I think.

Then one would need an additional WCondensedLibrary to display the 
LibraryFeatures without the leftPane but with a dropDown at the top.

Probably I'm not into it as deep as you guys. So don't hesitate to tell 
me I'm wrong ;-)
I just like to understand the difference in your approach to learn from 
it ;-)

Am 05.06.2016 um 14:13 schrieb Daniel Schürmann:
> Hi Markus,
>
> thank you for you second library model.
>
> We have discussed such a model earlier, but it was difficult to
> generalize is in the back-end.
>
> The current model has a nice generalized object model.
> See the exploded drawing on:
> http://www.mixxx.org/wiki/doku.php/library_layout_redesign
>
> For my feeling the switching of the left pane will happen
> "as expected".
> If done right, it will offer the right view for every common use case
> without being cluttered.
> The left pane could always support the DJ best for the specific task.
> Paired with a new drop target, it will IMHO work well.
>
> If you wish to do a mock-up, you may Inkscape and this template:
> https://github.com/jmigual/mixxxDocuments/blob/master/Layout_2.svg
> or any other tool.
>
>
>> Actually from a UX point of view I don't really like the approach to
>> re-use the left pane for all open rightPanes, because users may be
>> confused of it switching around all the time. What about such a solution?:
>>
>> By default have the Button-Bar, the Tree next to it and the TrackTable
>> visible (mainly as it is today, but with the button bar added).
>>
>> A Button in the skin to open an additional RightPane next to it (or
>> anywhere it fits) and there having a kind of drop-down in the header of
>> the new RightPane with which you can select the feature to load.
>> If the pane is empty, you could choose from Library, AutoDJ, Crates,
>> Playlists.
>> If you select Library, you get the usual Track-Table loaded inside the pane.
>> If you select Crates, the list of all crates is loaded to the pane,
>> which can then be used as drop-targets for sorting (see above).
>> Then you can click on one Crate-Name to show the content of the crate in
>> the pane instead. The drop-Down at the top would then show (Library,
>> AutoDJ, Crates, -divider-, [insertAllCratesHere], -divider-, Playlists).
>> So that you can quickly switch between crates and also to other
>> LibraryFeatures. If we could make that drop-down with expandable items
>> and sub items, one could also directly select a crate from the default
>> view, but thats maybe to complicated.
>>
>> Like that one has the fast and easy access to one feature at set-time,
>> but the flexibility to open an other pane if needed to sort tracks.
>> If you have a wide display, you could also open multiple LibraryFeatures
>> next to each other, to have 80th, 90th and MegaHits open for quick
>> access in a set. Maybe you only need the Artist and Track information,
>> than you could fit a massive amount of Crates/Playlists/+AutoDJ next to
>> each other. On a small screen you still have the clean layout we have
>> nowadays.
>>
>> I hope one understands my Idea. If needed I could make drafts of it to
>> make it more clear.
>>
>> Keep up the good work!
>> Markus
>>
>> Am 05.06.2016 um 11:45 schrieb Daniel Schürmann:
>>> Hi Ferran,
>>>
>>> thank you for your ideas.
>>>
  The second way is the "Copy to Context menu". Unfortunately the
  menu vanishes after the copy. Conclusion: Not easy.

 Why is this "not easy"?

>>> This IS easy for a single track, but not for many, lets say new tracks.
>>> I am afraid, this menu becomes unhandy if we have crates hierarchies.
>>> Maybe we can replace it with something cool that fixes the other issue
>>> as well.
>>>
  How about adding a root node to the Crates and  Playlist Feature
  that displays the All tracks? That would allow dragging any track
  to any Crate /Playlist.


 1) This doesn't allow users to add tracks from playlist to crates.

>>> Yes, a solution would be to combine the crates an playlists feature.
>>> However a separate feature may allows us to add cool new things to the
>>> left pane individual.
>>>
 2) Maybe the user is looking at the auto-dj queue and thinks "this
 track is totally hot, I should add it to the Hits crate". He 

Re: [Mixxx-devel] Library Layout Redesign [Wiki]

[Daniel Schürmann]

Hi Markus,

thank you for you second library model.

We have discussed such a model earlier, but it was difficult to
generalize is in the back-end.

The current model has a nice generalized object model.
See the exploded drawing on:
http://www.mixxx.org/wiki/doku.php/library_layout_redesign

For my feeling the switching of the left pane will happen
"as expected".
If done right, it will offer the right view for every common use case 
without being cluttered.
The left pane could always support the DJ best for the specific task.
Paired with a new drop target, it will IMHO work well.

If you wish to do a mock-up, you may Inkscape and this template:
https://github.com/jmigual/mixxxDocuments/blob/master/Layout_2.svg
or any other tool.


> Actually from a UX point of view I don't really like the approach to
> re-use the left pane for all open rightPanes, because users may be
> confused of it switching around all the time. What about such a solution?:
>
> By default have the Button-Bar, the Tree next to it and the TrackTable
> visible (mainly as it is today, but with the button bar added).
>
> A Button in the skin to open an additional RightPane next to it (or
> anywhere it fits) and there having a kind of drop-down in the header of
> the new RightPane with which you can select the feature to load.
> If the pane is empty, you could choose from Library, AutoDJ, Crates,
> Playlists.
> If you select Library, you get the usual Track-Table loaded inside the pane.
> If you select Crates, the list of all crates is loaded to the pane,
> which can then be used as drop-targets for sorting (see above).
> Then you can click on one Crate-Name to show the content of the crate in
> the pane instead. The drop-Down at the top would then show (Library,
> AutoDJ, Crates, -divider-, [insertAllCratesHere], -divider-, Playlists).
> So that you can quickly switch between crates and also to other
> LibraryFeatures. If we could make that drop-down with expandable items
> and sub items, one could also directly select a crate from the default
> view, but thats maybe to complicated.
>
> Like that one has the fast and easy access to one feature at set-time,
> but the flexibility to open an other pane if needed to sort tracks.
> If you have a wide display, you could also open multiple LibraryFeatures
> next to each other, to have 80th, 90th and MegaHits open for quick
> access in a set. Maybe you only need the Artist and Track information,
> than you could fit a massive amount of Crates/Playlists/+AutoDJ next to
> each other. On a small screen you still have the clean layout we have
> nowadays.
>
> I hope one understands my Idea. If needed I could make drafts of it to
> make it more clear.
>
> Keep up the good work!
> Markus
>
> Am 05.06.2016 um 11:45 schrieb Daniel Schürmann:
>> Hi Ferran,
>>
>> thank you for your ideas.
>>
>>>  The second way is the "Copy to Context menu". Unfortunately the
>>>  menu vanishes after the copy. Conclusion: Not easy.
>>>
>>> Why is this "not easy"?
>>>
>> This IS easy for a single track, but not for many, lets say new tracks.
>> I am afraid, this menu becomes unhandy if we have crates hierarchies.
>> Maybe we can replace it with something cool that fixes the other issue
>> as well.
>>
>>>  How about adding a root node to the Crates and  Playlist Feature
>>>  that displays the All tracks? That would allow dragging any track
>>>  to any Crate /Playlist.
>>>
>>>
>>> 1) This doesn't allow users to add tracks from playlist to crates.
>>>
>> Yes, a solution would be to combine the crates an playlists feature.
>> However a separate feature may allows us to add cool new things to the
>> left pane individual.
>>
>>> 2) Maybe the user is looking at the auto-dj queue and thinks "this
>>> track is totally hot, I should add it to the Hits crate". He can't
>>> because from the auto-dj pane he can't access the playlist tree. For
>>> me this is not a solution.
>>>
>> The main task for the autodj's left pane is to define the transitions.
>> The user can already use the context menu or open a second pane, but
>> this might be not straight forward enough.
>>
>>>  once we have a Crate hierarchies, it could be as hard to drop to
>>>  one from 100 crates. This cam be solved ba a Bookmark feature that
>>>  contains only a few relevant Crates.
>>>
>>>  What do you think? Any other idea?
>>>
>>> Keep showing the whole tree of features in every pane: Show the tree
>>> corresponding to the current pane. Add an additional node, collapsed
>>> by default that shows the whole tree. Something like this:
>>>
>>> -Crate 1
>>> -Crate 2
>>> ---Sub Crate 2.1
>>> -Crate 3
>>> -Full Tree
>>> ---...
>>>
>>>
>>> Isn't this a simple but effective solution?
>>>
>> IMHO we should careful consider what is the most required contend on the
>> feature's left pane. Sorting tracks to different crates / playlists is
>> only one aspect. It should not clutter the left pane one one hand, but
>> there is a valid demand to have 

Re: [Mixxx-devel] Library Layout Redesign [Wiki]

[Daniel Schürmann]

Hi Ferran and Markus,

thank you so much for your input.

What we have so far:
We need a tree as drop target to crates, playlist and AutoDJ.
This should be sensitive for drops from track tables, decks and file 
system.


The open question is how and where to display it.
1: in the second pane
   * good for small screens
2: on top of the left pane stack
   * can be always visible

Feeling of 2 can be tested in Nemo file manager. It features two panes 
and a switch to select the sidebar or the directory tree in the left pane.


Any addition thoughts? Pro and cons?








Am 05.06.2016 um 12:55 schrieb Ferran Pujol Camins:


Full Tree: I think we do not nee the legacy full tree, we need a
tree of all drop targets, right? The crates and playlist tree
should be sufficient.


Agree, but Autodj playlist is also a relevant drop target.


A full tree node, on every left pane breaks somehow the ButtoBar +
Fetaure Idea.
How can we combine both?

How about move this Full Tree node as button to the button bar.
This could be a special feature without a right pane.


I don't feel the button that makes the full tree appear should belong 
to the button bar, because it is not a feature by itself. Creates, 
playlists and autodj already have they own features. Maybe this button 
could be placed at the bottom of the left pane (first picture). Then 
if the button is pressed, the tree (playlists, crates and autodj list) 
appears and stays there until the button is pressed again (second 
picture). If the button is hovered while dragging tracks, the tree 
appears but hides when the drop is done.


How do you feel about this?


​



​




I want to remark that is quite important to allow users to
configure the new library to look similar to current one (one
single pane + complete tree). Feature specific tree + collapsable
complete tree would also work for me.


I am not sure if I missed a point, why it is required to keep a
view that look similar to current one. Is there an other use case
we have missed?


Forget that, as long as you provide quick access to all relevant drop 
targets and allow to only display one feature this would be ok for me.



Another thing you might want to think about is how this will affect 
the drag and drop of tracks from OS file explorer. I'm not sure how 
this works now, but you can add tracks to the library by dragging them 
from outside Mixxx right? For every feature on the button bar, you 
might want to think what will happen when an external track is dragged 
with that feature open. What about when two features are open at the 
same time?


Hope this helps you to improve the project definition :)



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Re: [Mixxx-devel] Library Layout Redesign [Wiki]

[Ferran Pujol Camins]

>
> Full Tree: I think we do not nee the legacy full tree, we need a tree of
> all drop targets, right? The crates and playlist tree should be sufficient.
>

Agree, but Autodj playlist is also a relevant drop target.


A full tree node, on every left pane breaks somehow the ButtoBar + Fetaure
> Idea.
> How can we combine both?
>
> How about move this Full Tree node as button to the button bar. This could
> be a special feature without a right pane.
>

I don't feel the button that makes the full tree appear should belong to
the button bar, because it is not a feature by itself. Creates, playlists
and autodj already have they own features. Maybe this button could be
placed at the bottom of the left pane (first picture). Then if the button
is pressed, the tree (playlists, crates and autodj list) appears and stays
there until the button is pressed again (second picture). If the button is
hovered while dragging tracks, the tree appears but hides when the drop is
done.

How do you feel about this?


​



​




>
> I want to remark that is quite important to allow users to configure the
> new library to look similar to current one (one single pane + complete
> tree). Feature specific tree + collapsable complete tree would also work
> for me.
>
>
> I am not sure if I missed a point, why it is required to keep a view that
> look similar to current one. Is there an other use case we have missed?
>

Forget that, as long as you provide quick access to all relevant drop
targets and allow to only display one feature this would be ok for me.


Another thing you might want to think about is how this will affect the
drag and drop of tracks from OS file explorer. I'm not sure how this works
now, but you can add tracks to the library by dragging them from outside
Mixxx right? For every feature on the button bar, you might want to think
what will happen when an external track is dragged with that feature open.
What about when two features are open at the same time?

Hope this helps you to improve the project definition :)
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Re: [Mixxx-devel] Library Layout Redesign [Wiki]

[Markus Klösges]

Thanks for addressing the library redesign!

 > IMHO we should careful consider what is the most required contend on the
 > feature's left pane. Sorting tracks to different crates / playlists is
 > only one aspect. It should not clutter the left pane one one hand, but
 > there is a valid demand to have always an easy access to crates and
 > playlist as drop targets.

What about adding a Right-Pane for the Playlists and Crates? So one 
could load the list of Playlists/Crates to a second right-pane. Like 
that you would have the AutoDJ/Library/Crate/Playlist-Tracklist open in 
one right-pane and the list of Playlist/Crates open in an other one next 
to it as drop target.
For that to work we would need the option to have at least two 
right-panes in every skin, but from my perspective that would make 
perfect sense.


| ButtonPane  |   LeftPane   |  RightPane1  |  RightPane2  |
|-|--|--|--|
| *Playlists* |  Playlist1   |   Track1 |Crate1|
|Crates   |  Playlist2   |SomeOtherTrack|Crate2|
| | *Playlist3*  |  FancyTrack  |Crate3|
| |  SomeOtherP. |   Track5 |  SomeOtherC. |
| |  |  |  |
| |  |  |  |
| |  |  |  |
|---

Like that you could drag the Tracks of an open Playlist/Crate (here 
Playlist3, which Tracks are shown in RightPane1) to any Crate whose 
names are shown in RightPane2.
If one opens the list of Playlists to the second RightPane, you could 
sort tracks of some specific Playlist to any Playlist.
If one opens a Crate in the RightPane1 and the list of Playlists in 
RightPane2... I think you get the idea.

And if you want to sort all your 90th-Tracks to the so-called Crate, you 
would load the 90th-Crate to the RightPane2 and the full library to the 
RightPane1 and could drag-drop in between.

So having two right-panes in every skin and the possibility to load the 
list of Crates/Playlists to one rightPane would solve the problem for me 
and all my usecases I think.

What do you think?

An other point:
Actually from a UX point of view I don't really like the approach to 
re-use the left pane for all open rightPanes, because users may be 
confused of it switching around all the time. What about such a solution?:

By default have the Button-Bar, the Tree next to it and the TrackTable 
visible (mainly as it is today, but with the button bar added).

A Button in the skin to open an additional RightPane next to it (or 
anywhere it fits) and there having a kind of drop-down in the header of 
the new RightPane with which you can select the feature to load.
If the pane is empty, you could choose from Library, AutoDJ, Crates, 
Playlists.
If you select Library, you get the usual Track-Table loaded inside the pane.
If you select Crates, the list of all crates is loaded to the pane, 
which can then be used as drop-targets for sorting (see above).
Then you can click on one Crate-Name to show the content of the crate in 
the pane instead. The drop-Down at the top would then show (Library, 
AutoDJ, Crates, -divider-, [insertAllCratesHere], -divider-, Playlists). 
So that you can quickly switch between crates and also to other 
LibraryFeatures. If we could make that drop-down with expandable items 
and sub items, one could also directly select a crate from the default 
view, but thats maybe to complicated.

Like that one has the fast and easy access to one feature at set-time, 
but the flexibility to open an other pane if needed to sort tracks.
If you have a wide display, you could also open multiple LibraryFeatures 
next to each other, to have 80th, 90th and MegaHits open for quick 
access in a set. Maybe you only need the Artist and Track information, 
than you could fit a massive amount of Crates/Playlists/+AutoDJ next to 
each other. On a small screen you still have the clean layout we have 
nowadays.

I hope one understands my Idea. If needed I could make drafts of it to 
make it more clear.

Keep up the good work!
Markus

Am 05.06.2016 um 11:45 schrieb Daniel Schürmann:
> Hi Ferran,
>
> thank you for your ideas.
>
>> The second way is the "Copy to Context menu". Unfortunately the
>> menu vanishes after the copy. Conclusion: Not easy.
>>
>> Why is this "not easy"?
>>
> This IS easy for a single track, but not for many, lets say new tracks.
> I am afraid, this menu becomes unhandy if we have crates hierarchies.
> Maybe we can replace it with something cool that fixes the other issue
> as well.
>
>>
>> How about adding a root node to the Crates and  Playlist Feature
>> that displays the All tracks? That would allow dragging any track
>> to any Crate /Playlist.
>>
>>
>> 1) This doesn't allow users to add tracks from playlist to crates.

Re: [Mixxx-devel] Library Layout Redesign [Wiki]

[Daniel Schürmann]

Hi Ferran,

thank you for your ideas.


The second way is the "Copy to Context menu". Unfortunately the
menu vanishes after the copy. Conclusion: Not easy.

Why is this "not easy"?

This IS easy for a single track, but not for many, lets say new tracks. 
I am afraid, this menu becomes unhandy if we have crates hierarchies. 
Maybe we can replace it with something cool that fixes the other issue 
as well.




How about adding a root node to the Crates and  Playlist Feature
that displays the All tracks? That would allow dragging any track
to any Crate /Playlist.


1) This doesn't allow users to add tracks from playlist to crates.

Yes, a solution would be to combine the crates an playlists feature. 
However a separate feature may allows us to add cool new things to the 
left pane individual.


2) Maybe the user is looking at the auto-dj queue and thinks "this 
track is totally hot, I should add it to the Hits crate". He can't 
because from the auto-dj pane he can't access the playlist tree. For 
me this is not a solution.


The main task for the autodj's left pane is to define the transitions. 
The user can already use the context menu or open a second pane, but 
this might be not straight forward enough.



once we have a Crate hierarchies, it could be as hard to drop to
one from 100 crates. This cam be solved ba a Bookmark feature that
contains only a few relevant Crates.

What do you think? Any other idea?

Keep showing the whole tree of features in every pane: Show the tree 
corresponding to the current pane. Add an additional node, collapsed 
by default that shows the whole tree. Something like this:


-Crate 1
-Crate 2
---Sub Crate 2.1
-Crate 3
-Full Tree
---...


Isn't this a simple but effective solution?

IMHO we should careful consider what is the most required contend on the 
feature's left pane. Sorting tracks to different crates / playlists is 
only one aspect. It should not clutter the left pane one one hand, but 
there is a valid demand to have always an easy access to crates and 
playlist as drop targets.


You idea, goes to the right direction.

Full Tree: I think we do not nee the legacy full tree, we need a tree of 
all drop targets, right? The crates and playlist tree should be sufficient.


A full tree node, on every left pane breaks somehow the ButtoBar + 
Fetaure Idea.

How can we combine both?

How about move this Full Tree node as button to the button bar. This 
could be a special feature without a right pane.


The most difficult case, seams to be the single feature view: ButtonBar 
+ AutoDJ left pane + AutoDJ track list.
Form this view, the user can drag a track from the AutoDJ track list, 
hover to the Full Tree button on the button bar.
this will enable the drop target tree on the left pane keeping the 
AutoDJ track list in the right pane.

Now he can sort all tracks as desired.

@JOAN, will this fit to your Backend model? Will it replace the single 
cates and playlist features?

Do we still need to copy to context menu?



I want to remark that is quite important to allow users to configure 
the new library to look similar to current one (one single pane + 
complete tree). Feature specific tree + collapsable complete tree 
would also work for me.


I am not sure if I missed a point, why it is required to keep a view 
that look similar to current one. Is there an other use case we have 
missed?


Kind regards,

Daniel



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Re: [Mixxx-devel] Library Layout Redesign [Wiki]

[Ferran Pujol Camins]

>
> The second way is the "Copy to Context menu". Unfortunately the menu
> vanishes after the copy. Conclusion: Not easy.
>
Why is this "not easy"?



> How about adding a root node to the Crates and  Playlist Feature that
> displays the All tracks? That would allow dragging any track to any Crate
> /Playlist.


1) This doesn't allow users to add tracks from playlist to crates.

2) Maybe the user is looking at the auto-dj queue and thinks "this track is
totally hot, I should add it to the Hits crate". He can't because from the
auto-dj pane he can't access the playlist tree. For me this is not a
solution.

once we have a Crate hierarchies, it could be as hard to drop to one from
> 100 crates. This cam be solved ba a Bookmark feature that contains only a
> few relevant Crates.
>
What do you think? Any other idea?
>
Keep showing the whole tree of features in every pane: Show the tree
corresponding to the current pane. Add an additional node, collapsed by
default that shows the whole tree. Something like this:

-Crate 1
-Crate 2
---Sub Crate 2.1
-Crate 3
-Full Tree
---...


Isn't this a simple but effective solution?


I want to remark that is quite important to allow users to configure the
new library to look similar to current one (one single pane + complete
tree). Feature specific tree + collapsable complete tree would also work
for me.
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Re: [Mixxx-devel] Library Layout Redesign [Wiki]

[re-cycle]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Speaking of playlists, is there going to be a playlist button? I
don't see it anywhere in the docs. Crates button, but no Playlist
button?

~RAWRR


On Sat, 04 Jun 2016 11:51:18 + "Daniel Schürmann"
 wrote:
>Good point.
>
>We have actually only thought about building a new Playlist by
>dropping to
>the second pane.
>
>Sorting library tracks to different crates is also a very common
>task. We
>schould make very easy.
>
>What are good solutions?
>
>Currently it can be done like that.
>Select a track in the source pane. Since the focus is now on the
>source
>feature, the left pane displays the source features left pane
>which most
>likely not contain a suitable drop target. But we can hover to the
>button
>bar, enable the target feature and drop to the left or right pane
>of the
>target.  Doing this, the source feature hidden, in a single pane
>layout.
>Concusion: Not easy.
>
>The second way is the "Copy to Context menu". Unfortunately the
>menu
>vanishes after the copy. Conclusion: Not easy.
>
>How about adding a root node to the Crates and  Playlist Feature
>that
>displays the All tracks? That would allow dragging any track to
>any Crate /
>Playlist.
>
>once we have a Crate hierarchies, it could be as hard to drop to
>one from
>100 crates. This cam be solved ba a Bookmark feature that contains
>only a
>few relevant Crates.
>
>What do you think? Any other idea?
>Am 03.06.2016 8:39 nachm. schrieb "Ferran Pujol Camins" <
>ferranpujolcam...@gmail.com>:
>
>> 1) Will users be able to configure the library to look exactly
>like it
>> does now? I mean, single list with the complete tree on the
>left.
>>
>> My concern is: As far as I can understand, the only way to drag
>a song to
>> a playlist will be with two opened panes, because the playlist
>tree will
>> only be shown with the playlist pane open. Isn't it?
>>
>> 2016-06-03 16:43 GMT+02:00 Joan Marcè i Igual
>:
>>
>>>
>>> I'd like to push back on this a little bit just to see whether
>it can be
 made more general.

 Why hard-code any orientations into this? And why 2 panes
>instead of N?

>>> Yes it will be N panes (maybe it's not well explained) but for
>simplicity
>>> I only created the examples with 2 pane. There will be only 2
>panes for
>>> each feature (left and right pane) but there can be up to N
>right pane
>>> containers.
>>>
>>>

 What if a skin author wanted a "top" and "bottom" frame? Or 3
>frames? Or
 only 1 frame?

  Although it has the names left pane and right pane it has
>nothing to do
>>> with orientation, there will be the skin elements
>*LibraryLeftPane *and
>>> *LibraryRightPane* that can be declared anywhere, and the
>>> *LibraryRightPane* can be declared N times to allow the skin
>designer to
>>> have as many right panes as he/she wants.
>>>
>>>
 Maybe instead of coding specific orientations, we just keep a
>list of
 available panes and then the logic for considering which pane
>to load a
 library feature's view into can consider the least recently
>used pane (or
 whatever the scheme is for loading views to panes)?

 BTW, maybe I missed it -- but how will the user choose which
>pane to
 load a sidebar item into? Is it automatic or a specific choice
>by the user
 (i.e. dragging an item from the sidebar into a pane).

 Is automatic, when the user has a pane container focused and
>clicks to
>>> load a feature in the button bar the feature is loaded in the
>current
>>> focused pane container. With this it should be very evident to
>the user
>>> which is the current focused pane to avoid confusion. Even so I
>like the
>>> dragging idea and if there's enough time I'll add it.
>>>
>>> Could you add some actual skin XML examples for various
>configurations?
 i.e. maybe an example of how to skin each of your example mock
>ups and then
 an example of how to do a completely different mockup (i.e.
>with the
 sidebar on the top?).

>>> I'll add it as soon as possible
>>>
>>>
 In the updated diagram, it looks like LibraryPaneManager
>creates two
 WLibrarys -- but in the skin logic, there is no way to
>constrain the skin
 author on how many WLibrary widgets to create -- so I'm just
>curious how
 that would look in skin.xml such that you can still
>style/position each
 widget individually, etc. Does LibraryPaneManager get access
>to WLibrary
 through a bindWidget process similar to how the Library class
>does today?
 (Is LibraryPaneManager in the "frontend" or the "backend"
>under this
 design?)

 It is the *LegacySkinParser* the one who creates the two
>*WLibrarys
>>> and *there will be two different *WLibrarys* for each
>>> *LibraryPaneManager.*  One will be the right pane and the other
>for the
>>> left. Every *LibraryPaneManager* will always have this two
>widgets but
>>> the *WLibrary* dedicated to the left pane of every

Re: [Mixxx-devel] Library Layout Redesign [Wiki]

[Be]

I like your ideas and I'm excited to play with the new interface. :) I 
have a suggestion for a feature: a new search box for the left pane. As 
the interface is now, this wouldn't make much sense because all the 
features are lumped together into the sidebar. After your redesign, it 
would be helpful to filter the crates, artists, or whatever else is 
shown in the left pane.

On 05/31/2016 04:48 PM, Joan Marcè i Igual wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> I have been working with the design of the new Library Layout and I have
> created
> a new page in the wiki
> ( http://www.mixxx.org/wiki/doku.php/library_layout_redesign )
> showing all the ideas.
>
> With this new design the user will be able to show two library features
> at once
> (it can be decided by the user to show two library features or only one).
>
> I will be waiting to your feedback and thoughts about this design.
>
> Regards,
> Joan
>
>
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>
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Re: [Mixxx-devel] Library Layout Redesign [Wiki]

[RJ Ryan]

Oh! Also you will probably need a section describing how skin XML will
describe / configure a library.

On Wed, Jun 1, 2016, 10:04 AM RJ Ryan  wrote:

> Nice work Joan!
>
> I would like to point out one key design detail of the library. There is a
> "frontend" (GUI components -- WLibrary, WLibrarySidebar, DlgRecording,
> DlgAnalysis, etc.) and a "backend" (non-GUI components -- Library,
> LibraryFeature, BasePlaylistFeature, CrateFeature, etc.).
>
> There are a couple of reasons for this separation:
> * The skin author can create multiple library widgets. All the frontend
> widgets get connected to the library "backend" via the bindWidget methods
> 
> .
> * When we have an Android/iOS port, we will need a completely separate GUI
> implementation but ideally we can reuse all the non-GUI backend code. (I
> realize there are certain parts of GUI logic that got intertwined in the
> LibraryFeatures over the years and for an Android port that would need to
> be disentangled).
>
> From your design doc -- your class hierarchy seems to combine both
> frontend and backend. The library frontend is split into 4 independent
> widgets instead of a monolithic widget -- WLibrary, WLibrarySidebar,
> WSearchLineEdit, and WCoverArt. We used to have one monolithic library
> widget but this wasn't very flexible for skin authors -- for example we
> would have to add configuration to control every possible option we could
> think of (like where the cover art should be positioned, or whether to show
> cover art at all) and it was very hard to style each widget independently.
> Now that the widgets are split, we have full control over
> grouping/positioning, style via 

Re: [Mixxx-devel] Library Layout Redesign [Wiki]

[RJ Ryan]

Nice work Joan!

I would like to point out one key design detail of the library. There is a
"frontend" (GUI components -- WLibrary, WLibrarySidebar, DlgRecording,
DlgAnalysis, etc.) and a "backend" (non-GUI components -- Library,
LibraryFeature, BasePlaylistFeature, CrateFeature, etc.).

There are a couple of reasons for this separation:
* The skin author can create multiple library widgets. All the frontend
widgets get connected to the library "backend" via the bindWidget methods
.
* When we have an Android/iOS port, we will need a completely separate GUI
implementation but ideally we can reuse all the non-GUI backend code. (I
realize there are certain parts of GUI logic that got intertwined in the
LibraryFeatures over the years and for an Android port that would need to
be disentangled).

>From your design doc -- your class hierarchy seems to combine both frontend
and backend. The library frontend is split into 4 independent widgets
instead of a monolithic widget -- WLibrary, WLibrarySidebar,
WSearchLineEdit, and WCoverArt. We used to have one monolithic library
widget but this wasn't very flexible for skin authors -- for example we
would have to add configuration to control every possible option we could
think of (like where the cover art should be positioned, or whether to show
cover art at all) and it was very hard to style each widget independently.
Now that the widgets are split, we have full control over
grouping/positioning, style via 

[Mixxx-devel] Library Layout Redesign [Wiki]

[Joan Marcè i Igual]

Hi everyone,

I have been working with the design of the new Library Layout and I have
created
a new page in the wiki (
http://www.mixxx.org/wiki/doku.php/library_layout_redesign )
showing all the ideas.

With this new design the user will be able to show two library features at
once
(it can be decided by the user to show two library features or only one).

I will be waiting to your feedback and thoughts about this design.

Regards,
Joan
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Re: [Mixxx-devel] library layout redesign

[Max Linke]

 Am 30.05.2012 17:17, schrieb mutil:
  Hi,
  One my concerns with this design is that, as I have understood from
  the mockup, we will not be able anymore to drag and drop directly
  into crates/playlists from other views (e.g. browser). What do you
  think of it?


We could open a popUP listing all playlists/crates if we detect a
dragEnterEvent on the library-symbol on the left. This would then allow
for drag'n'drop from other views


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Re: [Mixxx-devel] library layout redesign

[mutil]

Hi,
One my concerns with this design is that, as I have understood from the
mockup, we will not be able anymore to drag and drop directly into
crates/playlists from other views (e.g. browser). What do you think of
it?


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Re: [Mixxx-devel] library layout redesign

[Albert Santoni]

On Mon, May 28, 2012 at 9:13 PM, Max Linke max_li...@gmx.de wrote:
 On Sat, 26 May 2012 23:33:36 +0100
 Albert Santoni albe...@mixxx.org wrote:

 Yeah, although I like the work that was done to add support for a tree
 in the left pane of our library, I think it's a bit awkward to
 actually navigate a file tree there because you have to constantly
 expand the divider. If we could somehow move file navigation back to
 the right-hand pane, that might be nicer.

 Isn't this what we are doing now in Browse?

Yes, I'm criticizing the current implementation's usability, but
trying to still be positive. :)

Now is a good time to suggest that everyone interested in doing any
work on the library go and look at old versions of Mixxx. We're going
in circles:

Mixxx 1.4 and 1.5:
- Tree view in the left-hand pane
- (Fun fact: The library used to be a single in-memory QList.)
http://g1.idg.pl/ftp/linux/mixxx14.jpg
http://www.threadbox.net/files/blogpics/sets/mixxx/mixxx.png

Mixxx 1.6:
- Elimination of the left-hand pane, replaced with a combobox
- Search box added, placed above the library beside the combobox
- Browse mode added. This was a flat browse mode, where the
library showed the contents of a directory, and you could browse by
double clicking on a directory name, or on .. to go back up. (Based
on QDirModel I think...)
http://download.net.pl/img/3c565e8562e46edf8171795cea824dce.png.png


Mixxx 1.7:
- Nothing really changed in the library


Mixxx 1.8:
- New QtSql-based library + TrackInfoObject cache
- The left-hand pane is back, but it only supports 1 level of children
(it wasn't really a tree).
- iTunes / Rhythmbox sources
- Crates, Playlists
- Auto DJ introduced because the NEXT playback mode on the decks was
eliminated
- Bulk BPM detection, better song properties dialog
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_hUprAdIclgE/TCwnmXHaw4I/Atw/eetZSEfj4cc/s1600/Screenshot-Mixxx+1.8.0~beta2.png

Mixxx 1.9:
- Inline track editing (double-clicking on the the table to edit track metadata)
- Revamped search function, faster everything.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_hUprAdIclgE/TPniOgGWFWI/A6M/_6SUXHBkM4M/s1600/Picture+12.png


Mixxx 1.10:
- The left-hand pane is turned back into a tree!
- Directory browsing now happens back in the left-hand pane, like in Mixxx 1.4.
- Auto DJ improvements, recordings saved in the library, other
incremental improvements.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_hUprAdIclgE/TPniOgGWFWI/A6M/_6SUXHBkM4M/s1600/Picture+12.png



 Also what do you think of the option to view the library with a grid of
 Album Covers? I've read in some Bug reports that people miss the
 possibility to search through your library by picture when they use
 DJ-Software and I've thought this could be a nice way to bring this
 back.

I think we should prioritize improving the usability of the library in
general before we expand to features like this that won't necessarily
benefit many users. For example, addressing the difficultly organizing
playlists and crates (possibly by offering a two-pane view) is one
thing you could tackle.

That said, I'm a big fan of the library preview player and Keith's
track selector because they're both relative self contained, they
benefit a large number of users, and they didn't require redesigning
the library to implement. :)

Cheers,
Albert





 Also thanks for the great comments.

 best Max

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Re: [Mixxx-devel] library layout redesign

[Daniel Schürmann]

Hi Albert, Ilkka and Keith

Thank you for you positive criticism. I am happy that you are pleased with
Max and my ideas!
The vertical buttons can be easily replaced with the icons we have already.
Maybe we can reuse the clementine side bar with different configuration
options.

Kind regards,

Daniel
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Re: [Mixxx-devel] library layout redesign

[Max Linke]

On Sat, 26 May 2012 23:33:36 +0100
Albert Santoni albe...@mixxx.org wrote:
 
 Yeah, although I like the work that was done to add support for a tree
 in the left pane of our library, I think it's a bit awkward to
 actually navigate a file tree there because you have to constantly
 expand the divider. If we could somehow move file navigation back to
 the right-hand pane, that might be nicer.

Isn't this what we are doing now in Browse?

Also what do you think of the option to view the library with a grid of
Album Covers? I've read in some Bug reports that people miss the
possibility to search through your library by picture when they use
DJ-Software and I've thought this could be a nice way to bring this
back. 

Also thanks for the great comments.

best Max

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Re: [Mixxx-devel] library layout redesign

[Sean M. Pappalardo - D.J. Pegasus]

Also what do you think of the option to view the library with a grid of
Album Covers? I've read in some Bug reports that people miss the
possibility to search through your library by picture when they use
DJ-Software and I've thought this could be a nice way to bring this
back.


i love browsing by looking at cover art in itunes - would be great to
have similar options in mixxx


I second that. I remember things visually and not finding tunes by the 
CD or record sleeves has been the biggest hurdle for me to move to 
digital DJing.


Sincerely,
Sean M. Pappalardo
D.J. Pegasus
Mixxx Developer - Controller Specialist



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Re: [Mixxx-devel] library layout redesign

[nathan dotz]

I, on the other hand, can't stand album pictures. Whoever puts this in 
make sure there's an opt-out ;)

On 05/28/2012 04:52 PM, Sean M. Pappalardo - D.J. Pegasus wrote:


 Also what do you think of the option to view the library with a 
 grid of
 Album Covers? I've read in some Bug reports that people miss the
 possibility to search through your library by picture when they use
 DJ-Software and I've thought this could be a nice way to bring this
 back.


 i love browsing by looking at cover art in itunes - would be great to
 have similar options in mixxx

 I second that. I remember things visually and not finding tunes by the 
 CD or record sleeves has been the biggest hurdle for me to move to 
 digital DJing.

 Sincerely,
 Sean M. Pappalardo
 D.J. Pegasus
 Mixxx Developer - Controller Specialist



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Re: [Mixxx-devel] library layout redesign

[RJ Ryan]

This Qt-based implementation of a cover-flow like animation should be
easily re-usable: http://code.google.com/p/pictureflow/

On Mon, May 28, 2012 at 5:46 PM, nathan dotz nathan.d...@gmail.com wrote:

 I, on the other hand, can't stand album pictures. Whoever puts this in
 make sure there's an opt-out ;)

 On 05/28/2012 04:52 PM, Sean M. Pappalardo - D.J. Pegasus wrote:
 
 
  Also what do you think of the option to view the library with a
  grid of
  Album Covers? I've read in some Bug reports that people miss the
  possibility to search through your library by picture when they use
  DJ-Software and I've thought this could be a nice way to bring this
  back.
 
 
  i love browsing by looking at cover art in itunes - would be great to
  have similar options in mixxx
 
  I second that. I remember things visually and not finding tunes by the
  CD or record sleeves has been the biggest hurdle for me to move to
  digital DJing.
 
  Sincerely,
  Sean M. Pappalardo
  D.J. Pegasus
  Mixxx Developer - Controller Specialist
 
 
 
 
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Re: [Mixxx-devel] library layout redesign

[keithsalisb...@gmail.com]

Coverflow - nice idea, looks cool, not very practical though - everyone i
know with a mac/itunes switches off that gimmick after a while.
Browse by picture tiles - this has more validity, mainly because as noted,
many people have better visual memory.

Both ideas would be a great addition to the existing view (which is more
like a power users view).

Vertical buttons - we should definitely use the existing icons as users
have grown accustomed to them and their meaning. We could tweak a little.

On 29 May 2012 09:23, RJ Ryan russelljr...@gmail.com wrote:

 This Qt-based implementation of a cover-flow like animation should be
 easily re-usable: http://code.google.com/p/pictureflow/


 On Mon, May 28, 2012 at 5:46 PM, nathan dotz nathan.d...@gmail.comwrote:

 I, on the other hand, can't stand album pictures. Whoever puts this in
 make sure there's an opt-out ;)

 On 05/28/2012 04:52 PM, Sean M. Pappalardo - D.J. Pegasus wrote:
 
 
  Also what do you think of the option to view the library with a
  grid of
  Album Covers? I've read in some Bug reports that people miss the
  possibility to search through your library by picture when they use
  DJ-Software and I've thought this could be a nice way to bring this
  back.
 
 
  i love browsing by looking at cover art in itunes - would be great to
  have similar options in mixxx
 
  I second that. I remember things visually and not finding tunes by the
  CD or record sleeves has been the biggest hurdle for me to move to
  digital DJing.
 
  Sincerely,
  Sean M. Pappalardo
  D.J. Pegasus
  Mixxx Developer - Controller Specialist
 
 
 
 
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Re: [Mixxx-devel] library layout redesign

[Max Linke]

Hi

I've been working on the design with Daniel and this is what we came up
with.

https://bugs.launchpad.net/mixxx/+bug/986704/+attachment/3164045/+files/mixxx-newLibraryWidget-7.svg

Any comments?

best Max

On Fri, 27 Apr 2012 10:43:37 +0200
Max Linke max_li...@gmx.de wrote:

 Hi
 
 I've noticed that my layout doesn't allow to dragdrop tracks to a
 playlist/crate. My idea would be to show a list of all
 playlists/crates when a song is draged to the tab. 
 And I like the idea to have the library and auto-dj playlist next to
 each other in auto-dj view, this way you can add tracks to the
 playlist without the need to switch between library and auto-dj view.
 
 As for the tabs, I don't like to have more then 5. This Number should
 be possible to show an all screens from 10 to 17 without the need of
 a scrollbar. Also I don't know if we should have several search fields
 I assume this would confuse people.
 
 best,
 Max
 
 On Thu, 26 Apr 2012 17:24:00 +0200
 Daniel Schürmann dasch...@mixxx.org wrote:
 
  Hello Mixxx,
  
  thank you Keith and Max for your comments.
  
  I think Max's mock-up includes very good ideas and is a good
  starting point for checking against our requirements.
  
  Here are my main library-use-cases. (Please correct me, if you have
  different ideas)
  
  1.) Browse the library and crates for upcoming tracks
  * Sort and filter the track table
  * Preview tracks in library player
  * Read additional information about interesting the tracks like
  ** Metadata
  ** Similar tracks
  ** Lyrics
  ** Cover Arts
  * select song as possible follower
  
  2.) Seach for a special song
  * Search in all meta information
  * Preview Songs in Library player
  * select song as possible follower
  
  3.) Select a special song from file system
  * Search in all meta information
  * Preview tracks in library player
  * select song as possible follower
  
  4.) Prepare track's Meta data
  * Mass Tagging
  * Analyze Songs
  * Rate Songs
  
  5.) Sort Song's
  * Into crates
  * Into playlists
  
  6.) Control Auto DJ
  
  7.) Looking for track selector's tracks
  
  
  Ideas:
  * A static track table on the right with a small filter edit is
  always useful.
  ** I like to have an option for grouping by album or genre.
  
  * I agree with Max we should have an always visible preview player.
  This is needed in nearly all use-cases
  ** Maybe we could add a view which displays additional Meta-Data of
  the preview track if required
  
  * I agree with Keith and Max that we the current tree view is only
  interesting in short moments and need not to bee displayed at all
  the time ** Display the old tree on demand is good idea. For Me,
  This tree should only what is displayed in the Track table
  
  * Its a good Idea to have the file system browser not in the same
  tree, because this gives the option to have also a symbol view with
  an address bar
  
  * The selector tabs (buttons) on the left are looking very tidy. I
  would like to have them horizontal, because I think we need some
  additional buttons and our vertical space is already limited.
  ** For now I like to have:
  *** Library | PC | Auto DJ | Track Sector |  Track Info | Filter
  (Banshee like) | Second track table (Norton Commander) | Notepad
  
  * I Am not sure how to control the second track table.
  ** We need something to collect the upcoming tracks (maybe the
  AutoDJ playlists)
  ** And something to collect wishes and ideas like the CD stacks on
  the desktop
  ** And to create new playlists
  ** Maybe its also a good Idea to allow to split the static track
  table on demand, what do you think?
  
  * Additional to the filters I like to have an Index based search.
  Maybe we can put the edit also on top of the track table or we can
  integrate it with track selector or ...
  
  By the way: I don't think to should start to implement all Ideas.
  It's just a vision to know in which direction we should go with each
  future project.
  
  Kind regards,
  
  Daniel
 


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Re: [Mixxx-devel] library layout redesign

[Albert Santoni]

Hi Daniel and Max,

Here's some feedback to the message below and the new
mixxx-newLibraryWidget-7.svg:

On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 4:24 PM, Daniel Schürmann dasch...@mixxx.org wrote:
 Hello Mixxx,

 thank you Keith and Max for your comments.

 I think Max's mock-up includes very good ideas and is a good starting point
 for checking against our requirements.

 Here are my main library-use-cases. (Please correct me, if you have
 different ideas)

 1.) Browse the library and crates for upcoming tracks
 * Sort and filter the track table
 * Preview tracks in library player
 * Read additional information about interesting the tracks like
 ** Metadata
 ** Similar tracks
 ** Lyrics
 ** Cover Arts
 * select song as possible follower

 2.) Seach for a special song
 * Search in all meta information
 * Preview Songs in Library player
 * select song as possible follower

 3.) Select a special song from file system
 * Search in all meta information
 * Preview tracks in library player
 * select song as possible follower

 4.) Prepare track's Meta data
 * Mass Tagging
 * Analyze Songs
 * Rate Songs

 5.) Sort Song's
 * Into crates
 * Into playlists

 6.) Control Auto DJ

 7.) Looking for track selector's tracks


Yeah, I think that more or less covers the main use cases.



 Ideas:
 * A static track table on the right with a small filter edit is always
 useful.
 ** I like to have an option for grouping by album or genre.

 * I agree with Max we should have an always visible preview player. This is
 needed in nearly all use-cases

Maybe this is a job for Jus, but it would be good if the preview
player visually communicated what output it's going to. If the preview
deck doesn't make noise come out of my speakers the first time I run
Mixxx, I'm going to think Mixxx is broken.

 ** Maybe we could add a view which displays additional Meta-Data of the
 preview track if required

 * I agree with Keith and Max that we the current tree view is only
 interesting in short moments and need not to bee displayed at all the time
 ** Display the old tree on demand is good idea. For Me, This tree should
 only what is displayed in the Track table

 * Its a good Idea to have the file system browser not in the same tree,
 because this gives the option to have also a symbol view with an address bar

Yeah, although I like the work that was done to add support for a tree
in the left pane of our library, I think it's a bit awkward to
actually navigate a file tree there because you have to constantly
expand the divider. If we could somehow move file navigation back to
the right-hand pane, that might be nicer.


 * The selector tabs (buttons) on the left are looking very tidy. I would
 like to have them horizontal, because I think we need some additional
 buttons and our vertical space is already limited.

My personal opinion is that vertical buttons are very difficult to
read and should find a way to not use them. They're not part of any
interface guidelines on Windows or Mac, and they don't exist on any
platform outside KDE. They're not a standard widget and I can't read
text sideways, so I think we should try to avoid them.

 ** For now I like to have:
 *** Library | PC | Auto DJ | Track Sector |  Track Info | Filter (Banshee
 like) | Second track table (Norton Commander) | Notepad

 * I Am not sure how to control the second track table.
 ** We need something to collect the upcoming tracks (maybe the AutoDJ
 playlists)
 ** And something to collect wishes and ideas like the CD stacks on the
 desktop
 ** And to create new playlists
 ** Maybe its also a good Idea to allow to split the static track table on
 demand, what do you think?

After seeing the mockup with the split track view, I can definitely
see how this could be very useful. That might be a good main starting
point for moving forward with the UI design. (I'd suggest trying to
figure out how you'd want the two-pane view to work.) I think it would
make crate and playlist management much much easier if you could see
both a crate/playlist and the library at the same time.


 * Additional to the filters I like to have an Index based search. Maybe we
 can put the edit also on top of the track table or we can integrate it with
 track selector or ...

 By the way: I don't think to should start to implement all Ideas. It's just
 a vision to know in which direction we should go with each future project.


This is great, thanks for brainstorming guys! I'm looking forward to
seeing even more new ideas.

Thanks again,
Albert

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Re: [Mixxx-devel] library layout redesign

[keithsalisb...@gmail.com]

I agree here with Albert about vertical text buttons - I would prefer a
vertical list of icons which shows a tooltip with the name. The same as the
Ubuntu unity panel, or the OSX dock (vertical), Using icons ensures
consistency of size, and after repeated use users will understand the
symbols without needing to read the tooltip.

On 27 May 2012 06:33, Albert Santoni albe...@mixxx.org wrote:


 My personal opinion is that vertical buttons are very difficult to
 read and should find a way to not use them. They're not part of any
 interface guidelines on Windows or Mac, and they don't exist on any
 platform outside KDE. They're not a standard widget and I can't read
 text sideways, so I think we should try to avoid them.
 This is great, thanks for brainstorming guys! I'm looking forward to
 seeing even more new ideas.

 Thanks again,
 Albert

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Re: [Mixxx-devel] library layout redesign

[Ilkka Tuohela]

Agree.

I don't think people using vertical text lists actually read the text: they 
twist their head once to read it and then memorize the shape just like an icon.

Another problem in mixxx UI for the vertical text panels would be translations. 
The language change can often double length of some strings, and the theme 
can't guarantee that all sidebar labels even fit to the vertical list for 
localized versions.

Now we just need the nice default icons!

On 27 May 2012, at 06:41, keithsalisb...@gmail.com wrote:

 I agree here with Albert about vertical text buttons - I would prefer a 
 vertical list of icons which shows a tooltip with the name. The same as the 
 Ubuntu unity panel, or the OSX dock (vertical), Using icons ensures 
 consistency of size, and after repeated use users will understand the symbols 
 without needing to read the tooltip.
 
 On 27 May 2012 06:33, Albert Santoni albe...@mixxx.org wrote:
 
 My personal opinion is that vertical buttons are very difficult to
 read and should find a way to not use them. They're not part of any
 interface guidelines on Windows or Mac, and they don't exist on any
 platform outside KDE. They're not a standard widget and I can't read
 text sideways, so I think we should try to avoid them.
 This is great, thanks for brainstorming guys! I'm looking forward to
 seeing even more new ideas.
 
 Thanks again,
 Albert
 
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Re: [Mixxx-devel] library layout redesign

[Max Linke]

Hi

I've noticed that my layout doesn't allow to dragdrop tracks to a
playlist/crate. My idea would be to show a list of all playlists/crates
when a song is draged to the tab. 
And I like the idea to have the library and auto-dj playlist next to
each other in auto-dj view, this way you can add tracks to the playlist
without the need to switch between library and auto-dj view.

As for the tabs, I don't like to have more then 5. This Number should
be possible to show an all screens from 10 to 17 without the need of
a scrollbar. Also I don't know if we should have several search fields
I assume this would confuse people.

best,
Max

On Thu, 26 Apr 2012 17:24:00 +0200
Daniel Schürmann dasch...@mixxx.org wrote:

 Hello Mixxx,
 
 thank you Keith and Max for your comments.
 
 I think Max's mock-up includes very good ideas and is a good starting
 point for checking against our requirements.
 
 Here are my main library-use-cases. (Please correct me, if you have
 different ideas)
 
 1.) Browse the library and crates for upcoming tracks
 * Sort and filter the track table
 * Preview tracks in library player
 * Read additional information about interesting the tracks like
 ** Metadata
 ** Similar tracks
 ** Lyrics
 ** Cover Arts
 * select song as possible follower
 
 2.) Seach for a special song
 * Search in all meta information
 * Preview Songs in Library player
 * select song as possible follower
 
 3.) Select a special song from file system
 * Search in all meta information
 * Preview tracks in library player
 * select song as possible follower
 
 4.) Prepare track's Meta data
 * Mass Tagging
 * Analyze Songs
 * Rate Songs
 
 5.) Sort Song's
 * Into crates
 * Into playlists
 
 6.) Control Auto DJ
 
 7.) Looking for track selector's tracks
 
 
 Ideas:
 * A static track table on the right with a small filter edit is always
 useful.
 ** I like to have an option for grouping by album or genre.
 
 * I agree with Max we should have an always visible preview player.
 This is needed in nearly all use-cases
 ** Maybe we could add a view which displays additional Meta-Data of
 the preview track if required
 
 * I agree with Keith and Max that we the current tree view is only
 interesting in short moments and need not to bee displayed at all the
 time ** Display the old tree on demand is good idea. For Me, This
 tree should only what is displayed in the Track table
 
 * Its a good Idea to have the file system browser not in the same
 tree, because this gives the option to have also a symbol view with
 an address bar
 
 * The selector tabs (buttons) on the left are looking very tidy. I
 would like to have them horizontal, because I think we need some
 additional buttons and our vertical space is already limited.
 ** For now I like to have:
 *** Library | PC | Auto DJ | Track Sector |  Track Info | Filter
 (Banshee like) | Second track table (Norton Commander) | Notepad
 
 * I Am not sure how to control the second track table.
 ** We need something to collect the upcoming tracks (maybe the AutoDJ
 playlists)
 ** And something to collect wishes and ideas like the CD stacks on the
 desktop
 ** And to create new playlists
 ** Maybe its also a good Idea to allow to split the static track
 table on demand, what do you think?
 
 * Additional to the filters I like to have an Index based search.
 Maybe we can put the edit also on top of the track table or we can
 integrate it with track selector or ...
 
 By the way: I don't think to should start to implement all Ideas.
 It's just a vision to know in which direction we should go with each
 future project.
 
 Kind regards,
 
 Daniel



mixxx-newLibraryWidget-2.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document
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Re: [Mixxx-devel] library layout redesign

[Daniel Schürmann]

Hello Mixxx,

thank you Keith and Max for your comments.

I think Max's mock-up includes very good ideas and is a good starting point
for checking against our requirements.

Here are my main library-use-cases. (Please correct me, if you have
different ideas)

1.) Browse the library and crates for upcoming tracks
* Sort and filter the track table
* Preview tracks in library player
* Read additional information about interesting the tracks like
** Metadata
** Similar tracks
** Lyrics
** Cover Arts
* select song as possible follower

2.) Seach for a special song
* Search in all meta information
* Preview Songs in Library player
* select song as possible follower

3.) Select a special song from file system
* Search in all meta information
* Preview tracks in library player
* select song as possible follower

4.) Prepare track's Meta data
* Mass Tagging
* Analyze Songs
* Rate Songs

5.) Sort Song's
* Into crates
* Into playlists

6.) Control Auto DJ

7.) Looking for track selector's tracks


Ideas:
* A static track table on the right with a small filter edit is always
useful.
** I like to have an option for grouping by album or genre.

* I agree with Max we should have an always visible preview player. This is
needed in nearly all use-cases
** Maybe we could add a view which displays additional Meta-Data of the
preview track if required

* I agree with Keith and Max that we the current tree view is only
interesting in short moments and need not to bee displayed at all the time
** Display the old tree on demand is good idea. For Me, This tree should
only what is displayed in the Track table

* Its a good Idea to have the file system browser not in the same tree,
because this gives the option to have also a symbol view with an address bar

* The selector tabs (buttons) on the left are looking very tidy. I would
like to have them horizontal, because I think we need some additional
buttons and our vertical space is already limited.
** For now I like to have:
*** Library | PC | Auto DJ | Track Sector |  Track Info | Filter (Banshee
like) | Second track table (Norton Commander) | Notepad

* I Am not sure how to control the second track table.
** We need something to collect the upcoming tracks (maybe the AutoDJ
playlists)
** And something to collect wishes and ideas like the CD stacks on the
desktop
** And to create new playlists
** Maybe its also a good Idea to allow to split the static track table on
demand, what do you think?

* Additional to the filters I like to have an Index based search. Maybe we
can put the edit also on top of the track table or we can integrate it with
track selector or ...

By the way: I don't think to should start to implement all Ideas. It's just
a vision to know in which direction we should go with each future project.

Kind regards,

Daniel
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Re: [Mixxx-devel] library layout redesign

[keithsalisb...@gmail.com]

I agree Max, I don't like drop-down selectors either - but it made the
point.

I like your layouts

On 24 April 2012 02:12, Max Linke max_li...@gmx.de wrote:

 I don't like a drop-down selecter. I would prefer some tabs on the right
 and a third column to add stuff like Daniel suggested. Another thing is
 that I want to have access to the preview deck all the time, to preview
 some of the tracks in a playlist/crate/library.

 I've attached a design that I would like

 best,
 Max


 On Mon, 23 Apr 2012 19:34:43 +0800
 keithsalisb...@gmail.com keithsalisb...@gmail.com wrote:

  If you're looking for space, in truth the tree on the left could
  replaced by some kind of drop down selector - the fact is you're
  never using (or selecting) more than one item at a time, so while its
  a sexy tree view, its generally using up lots of space.
 
  2012/4/22 Daniel Schürmann dasch...@mixxx.org
 
   Hello Mixxx,
  
   I think it is time, to think about a library layout redesign for the
   future versions of  Mixxx.
  
   Every time, we think about new library features it is always an
   issue where to place the controls. The current practice, to put
   them on top of the track table is limited to a thin bar, which does
   not consumes much of the valuable vertical space.
  
   I have made a proposal that takes the fact in account, that most new
   displays have a wide screen format. It's based on my evaluation of
   various media players.
  
   For me, Clementine-Player and Banshee have an Interface where the DJ
   actually finds what he is looking for in a suitable time.
   Mixxx makes a good progress with all the new finding features but
   it is a bit hampered by its too static library layout.
  
   Here is my proposal is based on my personal taste (... and I am not
   a DJ).
  
   library layout redesign with tabs for special purpose
   https://bugs.launchpad.net/mixxx/+bug/986704
  
   This is a call for your Ideas and preferences, to get proposal
   widely accepted.
   So please leave your comment here, comment the Bug #986704 (better
   retrievable), or file your own bugs or wish-list. Every detail
   matters.
  
   Thank you in advanced.
  
   Cheers
  
   Daniel
  
  
  
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Re: [Mixxx-devel] library layout redesign

[keithsalisb...@gmail.com]

If you're looking for space, in truth the tree on the left could replaced
by some kind of drop down selector - the fact is you're never using (or
selecting) more than one item at a time, so while its a sexy tree view, its
generally using up lots of space.

2012/4/22 Daniel Schürmann dasch...@mixxx.org

 Hello Mixxx,

 I think it is time, to think about a library layout redesign for the
 future versions of  Mixxx.

 Every time, we think about new library features it is always an issue
 where to place the controls. The current practice, to put them on top of
 the track table is limited to a thin bar, which does not consumes much
 of the valuable vertical space.

 I have made a proposal that takes the fact in account, that most new
 displays have a wide screen format. It's based on my evaluation of
 various media players.

 For me, Clementine-Player and Banshee have an Interface where the DJ
 actually finds what he is looking for in a suitable time.
 Mixxx makes a good progress with all the new finding features but it is
 a bit hampered by its too static library layout.

 Here is my proposal is based on my personal taste (... and I am not a DJ).

 library layout redesign with tabs for special purpose
 https://bugs.launchpad.net/mixxx/+bug/986704

 This is a call for your Ideas and preferences, to get proposal widely
 accepted.
 So please leave your comment here, comment the Bug #986704 (better
 retrievable), or file your own bugs or wish-list. Every detail matters.

 Thank you in advanced.

 Cheers

 Daniel


 --
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 Boundary is the first to Know...and Tell You.
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Re: [Mixxx-devel] library layout redesign

[Max Linke]

I don't like a drop-down selecter. I would prefer some tabs on the right
and a third column to add stuff like Daniel suggested. Another thing is
that I want to have access to the preview deck all the time, to preview
some of the tracks in a playlist/crate/library. 

I've attached a design that I would like

best,
Max


On Mon, 23 Apr 2012 19:34:43 +0800
keithsalisb...@gmail.com keithsalisb...@gmail.com wrote:

 If you're looking for space, in truth the tree on the left could
 replaced by some kind of drop down selector - the fact is you're
 never using (or selecting) more than one item at a time, so while its
 a sexy tree view, its generally using up lots of space.
 
 2012/4/22 Daniel Schürmann dasch...@mixxx.org
 
  Hello Mixxx,
 
  I think it is time, to think about a library layout redesign for the
  future versions of  Mixxx.
 
  Every time, we think about new library features it is always an
  issue where to place the controls. The current practice, to put
  them on top of the track table is limited to a thin bar, which does
  not consumes much of the valuable vertical space.
 
  I have made a proposal that takes the fact in account, that most new
  displays have a wide screen format. It's based on my evaluation of
  various media players.
 
  For me, Clementine-Player and Banshee have an Interface where the DJ
  actually finds what he is looking for in a suitable time.
  Mixxx makes a good progress with all the new finding features but
  it is a bit hampered by its too static library layout.
 
  Here is my proposal is based on my personal taste (... and I am not
  a DJ).
 
  library layout redesign with tabs for special purpose
  https://bugs.launchpad.net/mixxx/+bug/986704
 
  This is a call for your Ideas and preferences, to get proposal
  widely accepted.
  So please leave your comment here, comment the Bug #986704 (better
  retrievable), or file your own bugs or wish-list. Every detail
  matters.
 
  Thank you in advanced.
 
  Cheers
 
  Daniel
 
 
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  Boundary is the first to Know...and Tell You.
  Monitor Your Applications in Ultra-Fine Resolution. Try it FREE!
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mixxx-newLibraryWidget.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document
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[Mixxx-devel] library layout redesign

[Daniel Schürmann]

Hello Mixxx,

I think it is time, to think about a library layout redesign for the
future versions of  Mixxx.

Every time, we think about new library features it is always an issue
where to place the controls. The current practice, to put them on top of
the track table is limited to a thin bar, which does not consumes much
of the valuable vertical space.

I have made a proposal that takes the fact in account, that most new
displays have a wide screen format. It's based on my evaluation of
various media players.

For me, Clementine-Player and Banshee have an Interface where the DJ
actually finds what he is looking for in a suitable time.
Mixxx makes a good progress with all the new finding features but it is
a bit hampered by its too static library layout.

Here is my proposal is based on my personal taste (... and I am not a DJ).

library layout redesign with tabs for special purpose
https://bugs.launchpad.net/mixxx/+bug/986704

This is a call for your Ideas and preferences, to get proposal widely
accepted.
So please leave your comment here, comment the Bug #986704 (better
retrievable), or file your own bugs or wish-list. Every detail matters.

Thank you in advanced.

Cheers

Daniel  

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