On Sat, 4 Dec 1999, Matt Sergeant wrote:
[...]
> Personally I'd find it hard to hire a telecommuter unless I had really
> great references _and_ solid evidence of their knowledge (e.g.
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] postings). That's how I've been hired.
that is also how we have found our contractors at Va
On Fri, 03 Dec 1999, David Harris wrote:
> Jason Bodnar wrote:
> > Unfortunately, another big part of the problem is that many so-called
> 'forward
> > thinking' companies aren't willing to hire tele-commuters, even for contract
> > positions. I'm interested in doing some moonlight consultant work
ED]
ProVillage Inc.
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On
> Behalf Of Geoff Crawshaw
> Sent: Sunday, December 05, 1999 10:51 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: mod_perl Programmers demand is going up...
>
>
> I might as w
The problem is that to program mod_perl and troubleshoot it, you do have to have
sysadmin skills and a firm understanding of the web server. eg note the amount of
people who get Gotcha'ed by wondering why an error takes a long time to propagate
when not in Single-Server mode.
Kent Perrier wrote:
Gunther Birznieks wrote:
> Again, it's hard enough finding a good perl programmer, but finding
> someone who can compile everything together and understand it all is a top
> 15 percentile ( and I think I am being generous) skill which I don't think
> simple training will help with.
In my opinion,
;
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On
> > Behalf Of Kreimendahl, Chad J
> > Sent: Friday, December 03, 1999 9:51 AM
> > To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'; mod_perl list
> > Subject: RE: mod_perl Programmers demand is going up...
&g
Suddenly, Stas Bekman uttered:
> Hi, folks
>
> You wouldn't beleive but I receive a great deal of mod_perl job offers.
> Here is a partial quote of the most generic content of the offer:
*Sigh*
Lots of jobs in the US, but none in Norway... :(
I've been lurking on this list a little while and
that part.
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On
> Behalf Of Kreimendahl, Chad J
> Sent: Friday, December 03, 1999 9:51 AM
> To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'; mod_perl list
> Subject: RE: mod_perl Programmers demand is going up
> > So when I spread the mod_perl word, I make sure I don't make my client
> > hire another bunch of VB programmers after what I told them about
> > mod_perl during the training. :)))
>
> Hang on, fellas, isn't this getting a bit unnecessarily evangelist?
> Tools like mod_perl are just that. Too
Hi all,
On Sat, 4 Dec 1999, Gunther Birznieks wrote:
> Just putting in use strict and -w doesn't cut it. There's a load of
> gotchas that people just have to understand and learn on top of Perl
> skills.
Too true. This is a topic in its own right. I believe that mod_perl
could be made into an
Hi again, all,
On Sun, 5 Dec 1999, Victor Zamouline wrote:
> So, a company hiring VB developers knows that these are humble and
> obedient guys who will make the application work, even if an extra
> semicolon will ruin the whole program. And that is perfectly OK with
> such companies because the
And Lincons roots?
I'd rather see a camel with wings. Seems like an eagle without wings isn't
much of an eagle, and a camel without a hump isn't much of a camel.
Just like mod_perl gives you all the power of Apache & Perl together?
Yeah, I'm reaching.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bill Desjardins) wrote:
>Or even the head
On Fri, 3 Dec 1999, Victor Zamouline wrote:
[...]
> Right. This talk is about a commercial success. The
> /perl.apache.org/logos/mod_perl.gif logo represents a bridge between two
> products [...]
But that is what it is.
A very cool bridge indeed, but a bridge.
- ask
--
ask bjoern hansen
Gunther Birznieks wrote:
> You don't have to be top 15th percentile VB or top 15th percentile Java to
> write ASPs or Servlets respectively. Although for servlets, I would say
> top 50th at least if you don't want a completely crappy OO servlet
> architecture.
I have organized a series of pers
John White wrote:
>
> On Fri, Dec 03, 1999 at 11:15:53PM +0200, Stas Bekman wrote:
> > > Does anybody see a niche for a new web-hosting company specializing in
> > > mode_perl and other goodies, rather than the generic "package" ? Matt ?
> > > That could ease the management problem of "we agree m
Or even the head of a camel on an eagles body? I guess you could call it
an Eamel ;-)
my $.02
Bill
===
Bill Desjardinshttp://www.carracing.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Tel: 305.205.8644
FREE Homepages for Racers and Race Tracks!!
On Sat, 4 Dec 1999,
On Fri, Dec 03, 1999 at 11:15:53PM +0200, Stas Bekman wrote:
> > Does anybody see a niche for a new web-hosting company specializing in
> > mode_perl and other goodies, rather than the generic "package" ? Matt ?
> > That could ease the management problem of "we agree mod_perl is great,
> > but our
On Fri, 3 Dec 1999, Jason Bodnar wrote:
> On 03-Dec-99 Gunther Birznieks wrote:
> > I think mod_perl is sufficiently hard that even as more people learn how
> > to do the simple stuff, mod_perl will still be 'difficult' enough. I don't
> > think it is like Java or Perl where the stratification i
On Fri, 03 Dec 1999, Gidon Wise wrote:
> Hello Everybody,
>
> I believe it is true. We could have more more mod_perl programmers.
> I think that the biggest problem/opportunity that mod_perl has in terms
> of proliferation amongst programmers/users is that Hosts currently
> do not provide mod_per
On Fri, 03 Dec 1999, Stas Bekman wrote:
>
> Now the question is: if this is truth and you feel the same way, how do we
> make the world know that there is a great demand for mod_perl programmers
> and that people should learn mod_perl and not the stright-forward choice
> like VB, ASP or other te
Suddenly, Michael Dearman uttered:
>
> "G.W. Haywood" wrote:
> >
> > How about ``Eagle''?
>
> Exactly what I was just thinking.
> Apache Stronghold
> Apache Eagle
>
> Logo?
> Eagle floating over the feather? Or, the feather floating under the
> Eagle.
> An Eagle Feather.
Maybe an eagle with
Hi all,
On Sat, 4 Dec 1999, Robin Berjon wrote:
> I can do graphics but I'm no good at drawing. If anyone has the opposite
> skills configuration, I'm willing to take care of the (web-)graphic part.
I have neither skill in any great measure. But I _can_ probably find some
images of hedgehogs
On Fri, 3 Dec 1999, Stas Bekman wrote:
> I was thinking about hedgehog as one that protected from everything,
> exactly like mod_perl...
Now why didn't _I_ think of that?
73
Ged.
At 18:29 04/12/1999 +1100, Rod Butcher wrote:
>Um... how about a mythical beast with the head of an eagle and the body
>of a camel ?
Or a feather made of camel fur...
:)
.Robin
James Joyce -- an essentially private man who wished his total indifference
to public notice to be universally recogni
At 18:04 03/12/1999 -0600, Jason Bodnar wrote:
>You really can't compare mod_perl to ASP or JSP, though, IMHO. Compare those
>two technologies to Embperl or ePerl or Apache::ASP.
That's true. And then compare mod_perl handlers with ISAPI extensions and
filters. Mod_perl isn't that hard after all
At 23:19 03/12/1999 +0200, Stas Bekman wrote:
>> >There are a few logos on the site, and we can add some more (I don't know
>> >if we would manage to agree on one, though it'd give a stronger sense of
>> >"brand").
>>
>> Right. This talk is about a commercial success. The
>> /perl.apache.org/logo
Randy Harmon wrote:
> Um, isn't that animal taken by O'Rielly?
The O'Reilly Eagle is a Tawny Eagle.
Thar be golden, spotted, bald, imperial, harpy ... well, plenty to go
around.
Still, it'd be nice to be able to use The Eagle. Logo promotes the book.
To
honor the first tome of mod_perl. Book pr
At 14:55 03/12/1999 +, G.W. Haywood wrote:
>On Fri, 3 Dec 1999, Robin Berjon wrote:
>
>> >That takes a strong logo and... possibly a more artistic name for mod_perl?
>> The Eagle book doesn't have it on it's cover though,
>
>Well, actually, it does... on the first line, but who cares?
Oh you'
Um... how about a mythical beast with the head of an eagle and the body
of a camel ?
Rod
Baiju Thakkar wrote:
>
> >
> > Well, someone mentioned an eagle. How about the eagle image for an
> > alternative mod_perl logo? I was thinking about hedgehog as one that
> > protected from everything, exac
On Fri, Dec 03, 1999 at 11:38:35PM -0700, Michael Dearman wrote:
>
>
> "G.W. Haywood" wrote:
> > How about ``Eagle''?
> Exactly what I was just thinking.
> Apache Stronghold
> Apache Eagle
Um, isn't that animal taken by O'Rielly?
How about an oyster? Perhaps not as american-patriotic but jus
"G.W. Haywood" wrote:
>
> On Fri, 3 Dec 1999, Robin Berjon wrote:
>
> > >That takes a strong logo and... possibly a more artistic name for mod_perl?
> > The Eagle book doesn't have it on it's cover though,
>
> Well, actually, it does... on the first line, but who cares?
>
> > so it might be
On 03-Dec-99 Gunther Birznieks wrote:
> I think mod_perl is sufficiently hard that even as more people learn how
> to do the simple stuff, mod_perl will still be 'difficult' enough. I don't
> think it is like Java or Perl where the stratification is there in the
> language knowledge. Unless mod_p
On Sat, 4 Dec 1999, Stas Bekman wrote:
> >
> > Now unfortunately a lot of people don't share our views on money. They
> > want to maximize the monetary value of their mod_perl knowledge, which
> > is all well and good as far as I care. The problem for these folks is
> > that the more widesprea
Baiju Thakkar wrote:
> >
> > Well, someone mentioned an eagle. How about the eagle image for an
> > alternative mod_perl logo? I was thinking about hedgehog as one that
> > protected from everything, exactly like mod_perl...
> >
>
> Well mod_perl as a project has gotten the permission to
> use th
> Can you wonder why a large corporation would rather go with ASP for most
> web apps as long as it gets the job done and it's pain threshhold is not
> too high. Same with reasons for going with NT as a File Server or WEb
> Server. Sure it sucks for sophisicated stuff ,but 90% of places don't
> re
> Stas Bekman wrote:
> >
> > Hi, folks
> >
> > You wouldn't beleive but I receive a great deal of mod_perl job offers.
> > Here is a partial quote of the most generic content of the offer:
> >
> > At any rate, we're finding it very hard to find mod_perl people and I
> > thought maybe you co
Can you wonder why a large corporation would rather go with ASP for most
web apps as long as it gets the job done and it's pain threshhold is not
too high. Same with reasons for going with NT as a File Server or WEb
Server. Sure it sucks for sophisicated stuff ,but 90% of places don't
really need
On 3 Dec 1999, Randal L. Schwartz wrote:
> > "Scott" == Scott Chapman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> Scott> I am new to Mod_Perl. I don't know what all it's good for. My
> Scott> question is, what do they mean by "mod_perl experience". I can
> Scott> compile Apache with mod_perl and make
>
> Well, someone mentioned an eagle. How about the eagle image for an
> alternative mod_perl logo? I was thinking about hedgehog as one that
> protected from everything, exactly like mod_perl...
>
Well mod_perl as a project has gotten the permission to
use the camel right ? I suggest we keep
> >There are a few logos on the site, and we can add some more (I don't know
> >if we would manage to agree on one, though it'd give a stronger sense of
> >"brand").
>
> Right. This talk is about a commercial success. The
> /perl.apache.org/logos/mod_perl.gif logo represents a bridge between two
> Does anybody see a niche for a new web-hosting company specializing in
> mode_perl and other goodies, rather than the generic "package" ? Matt ?
> That could ease the management problem of "we agree mod_perl is great,
> but our hoster won't run it".
> I for one ended up having to host my own web
> >Now the question is: if this is truth and you feel the same way, how do we
> >make the world know that there is a great demand for mod_perl programmers
> >and that people should learn mod_perl and not the stright-forward choice
> >like VB, ASP or other technology that drives the web?
>
>
> Gr
On Fri, 3 Dec 1999, Jeffrey Baker wrote:
> Most people are lazy. Since it is easier to get started with
> VB/ASP/Crapomatic-9000, most people are going to start there. The
> people with real initiative and drive will always find their way over to
> mod_perl or other advanced solutions. The onl
On Fri, 3 Dec 1999, Robin Berjon wrote:
> >That takes a strong logo and... possibly a more artistic name for mod_perl?
> The Eagle book doesn't have it on it's cover though,
Well, actually, it does... on the first line, but who cares?
> so it might be possible if anyone's got some good suggesti
Are you disparaging expertise in Crapomatic-9000 programming? Perish
the...
Today, Jeffrey Baker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> frothed and gesticulated about Re:...:
> Most people are lazy. Since it is easier to get started with
> VB/ASP/Crapomatic-9000, most people are going to start there. The
-Ian (w
Nice argument but there's a flaw in it :) Do you have any idea how hard it
is to find a "skilled unix admin"? In fact (this is off topic but I'm
desperate), if there is someone in the Seattle area that's looking, there
is an immediate opening...
--Jauder
On Fri, 3 Dec 1999, Richard Dice wrote:
> 1. Perl programming style with mod_perl techniques in mind
> 2. Abstraction from standard CGI constraints and high stakes on
> mod_perl's features unavailable in vanilla CGI
What about "bipolar" Perl-web programming tactics, like Embperl?
It can be as either CGI or mod_perl, and yet it is not A
To my opinion, out of the responses to a definition of a "mod_perl
experience", two are worth emphasizing:
1. Perl programming style with mod_perl techniques in mind
2. Abstraction from standard CGI constraints and high stakes on mod_perl's
features unavailable in vanilla CGI
There should be a d
Jason Bodnar wrote:
> Unfortunately, another big part of the problem is that many so-called
'forward
> thinking' companies aren't willing to hire tele-commuters, even for contract
> positions. I'm interested in doing some moonlight consultant work but there
> isn't alot of mod_perl activity going
Jeffrey:
> There can be no such thing as a shortage of mod_perl programmers. When
> someone says that they can't find mod_perl people, what they really mean
> is that they can't find mod_perl people for the price they are willing
> to pay.
Well said! The term for this is "market clearing price
Stas Bekman wrote:
>
> Hi, folks
>
> You wouldn't beleive but I receive a great deal of mod_perl job offers.
> Here is a partial quote of the most generic content of the offer:
>
> At any rate, we're finding it very hard to find mod_perl people and I
> thought maybe you could refer me to so
On 03-Dec-99 Robin Berjon wrote:
> At 12:35 03/12/1999 +0100, Victor Zamouline wrote:
>>Great sites using mod_perl may want to explicitely state being proud of it,
>>with a kind of mod_perl logo. I will willingly decorate my mod_perl'ed site
>>(www.jazzvalley.com) with a mod_perl stamp on every p
> "Ian" == Ian Kallen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Ian> We've never had any candidates come in with any level of depth with
Ian> mod_perl but I'd vet their competency with it by asking them to explain
Ian> the closure problem with variables my'd under Apache::Registry. Anyone
Ian> cognizant o
On 03-Dec-99 Robin Berjon wrote:
> I think the problem touches computer people as a whole. It is getting hard
> or impossible to find contractors that aren't booked for the next six
> months in some areas of knowledge. Granted it must be easier to find a Java
> programmer though.
Unfortunately, a
We've never had any candidates come in with any level of depth with
mod_perl but I'd vet their competency with it by asking them to explain
the closure problem with variables my'd under Apache::Registry. Anyone
cognizant of those issues should presumably know how to sanely use
Registry scripts b
) CVS Oracle 8i
The money is very good for the region... email me if you're interested
-Original Message-
From: Scott Chapman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, December 03, 1999 9:35 AM
To: mod_perl list
Subject: Re: mod_perl Programmers demand is going up...
I am new to Mod_Per
Stas,
Keep working on your tutorial book for mod_perl. I hope that you
guys are writing it in a similar style to the "Learning Perl" book.
the Learning Perl book got me up and running on Perl rather quickly.
Then when I referenced the "Programming Perl" book for specific
information I understood
> "Scott" == Scott Chapman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Scott> I am new to Mod_Perl. I don't know what all it's good for. My
Scott> question is, what do they mean by "mod_perl experience". I can
Scott> compile Apache with mod_perl and make emb_perl work correctly
Scott> but I highly doubt t
I am new to Mod_Perl. I don't know what all it's good for. My
question is, what do they mean by "mod_perl experience". I can
compile Apache with mod_perl and make emb_perl work correctly
but I highly doubt that is all they are after. Being new to this, I'd like
some perspective from those
> > "Stas" == Stas Bekman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> Stas> Hi, folks
> Stas> You wouldn't beleive but I receive a great deal of mod_perl job offers.
> Stas> Here is a partial quote of the most generic content of the offer:
>
> Stas> At any rate, we're finding it very hard to find mod_
>Maybe what we need is some open enrollment courses
I can organize that in France, I am in direct communication with all French
computer training companies.
Vic.
> "Victor" == Victor Zamouline <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Victor> Great sites using mod_perl may want to explicitely state being
Victor> proud of it, with a kind of mod_perl logo. I will willingly
Victor> decorate my mod_perl'ed site (www.jazzvalley.com) with a
Victor> mod_perl stamp on ever
> "Stas" == Stas Bekman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Stas> Hi, folks
Stas> You wouldn't beleive but I receive a great deal of mod_perl job offers.
Stas> Here is a partial quote of the most generic content of the offer:
Stas> At any rate, we're finding it very hard to find mod_perl people an
> "Robin" == Robin Berjon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Robin> Another thing that could help would be an article on
Robin> perl.com. That would reach the Perl community. I'm sure that we
Robin> can mail whoever's in charge of it and offer to write an
Robin> article, and I see no reason why it'd
Hi there,
On Fri, 3 Dec 1999, Stas Bekman wrote:
> You wouldn't beleive but I receive a great deal of mod_perl job offers.
I believe it.
> Which makes me thinking that we are too few and the demand is growing
> (which is good for us :), but from the other side it's bad for mod_perl,
Speaking
>-Message d'origine-
>De : Robin Berjon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>There are a few logos on the site, and we can add some more (I don't know
>if we would manage to agree on one, though it'd give a stronger sense of
>"brand").
Right. This talk is about a commercial success. The
/perl.apache.o
At 12:35 03/12/1999 +0100, Victor Zamouline wrote:
>Great sites using mod_perl may want to explicitely state being proud of it,
>with a kind of mod_perl logo. I will willingly decorate my mod_perl'ed site
>(www.jazzvalley.com) with a mod_perl stamp on every page.
That's a good idea. We're to rele
Does anybody see a niche for a new web-hosting company specializing in
mode_perl and other goodies, rather than the generic "package" ? Matt ?
That could ease the management problem of "we agree mod_perl is great,
but our hoster won't run it".
I for one ended up having to host my own website becau
>Now the question is: if this is truth and you feel the same way, how do we
>make the world know that there is a great demand for mod_perl programmers
>and that people should learn mod_perl and not the stright-forward choice
>like VB, ASP or other technology that drives the web?
Great sites usin
>You wouldn't beleive but I receive a great deal of mod_perl job offers.
>Here is a partial quote of the most generic content of the offer:
mod_perl is definitely going up, and not too slow either.
>Which makes me thinking that we are too few and the demand is growing
>(which is good for us :),
Hello Everybody,
I believe it is true. We could have more more mod_perl programmers.
I think that the biggest problem/opportunity that mod_perl has in terms
of proliferation amongst programmers/users is that Hosts currently
do not provide mod_perl on cheap virtual server package.
I think a whol
We don't seem to have the same problem here in Blighty. I did a search for
mod_perl at www.jobserve.com and six jobs posted in the last five days were
returned.
I'm sure things will improve after this Y2K thang passes over and companies
start to look to new technologies.
>From: Stas Bekman <
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