Tony Bowden wrote:
> I'd have to disagree. Maybe Mike had something different in mind when he
> created Class::DBI, but as the current active developer on it, I'm
> definitely pushing it in the R-O direction. Like Dave, I always start by
> thinking of my database schema and then Class::DBI provide
[sorry for the broken References - I've just joined the list and am
replying to a post in the archives]
On Sat, 15 Jun 2002, Perrin Harkins said:
>> An Object-Relational mapper takes objects and stores them in a relational
>> database, as transparently as possible. I think the most pure example
> Not quite sure what you mean here. The general WO request-response
loop is
> 1 Process request
> 2 Perform action
> 3 Return response
>
> Step 3 is entirely dependent on the previous two, just like any
> mod_perl/CGI/php app.
The introductory documentation makes it look each URL is tied to a
s
Perrin &al
> > Once you use it, everything else
> > sucks. There are no exceptions.
> That's kind of a rude statement to make on this list, where all of these
> people are offering free software and support to you.
Ah, you're right; I actually never meant that as a slight against things
mod_per
> An Object-Relational mapper takes objects and stores them in a
relational
> database, as transparently as possible. I think the most pure example
of
> this I've seen in the Perl world is Tangram
(www.tangram-persistence.org).
> SPOPS is also an O-R mapper (actually, its a generic Object
persist
> This approach works for some things, but I think it falls down when it
> comes to doing complex database searches, particularly searches
generated
> ad-hoc on multiple columns in multiple tables.
In general, the user interface you provide for a search will be much
higher-level than the SQL that
> My general motto is "tiers eq tears" ... I've never seen
> a really comfortable OO/SQL bridge.
So who's talking about an OO/SQL bridge? Not me. At least not an
automatic one. I write the SQL by hand.
> Group bys, order bys, multi-table selects, locking, SQL query
> plans and index optimisat
> WO is amazing, no two ways about it. Once you use it, everything else
> sucks. There are no exceptions.
That's kind of a rude statement to make on this list, where all of these
people are offering free software and support to you.
It's been a few years since I last evaluated WebObjects, but
Fran,
I think the key here is taking care of the 80% easily. This has been
mentioned in this thread several times, and in previous threads. No, I
don't think there will ever be an (efficient) wrapper that can handle ALL
the cases and ALL the possible SQL queries. But if you can handle the
maj
On Fri, 14 Jun 2002, kyle dawkins wrote:
> bigger system, but I would also caution people to say that if you find
> yourself doing joins across up to 6 tables, you're almost certainly
> doing something wrong from the start and, basically, you're fooked
> because of shitty design, and O/R or R/O w
Drew is correct, EOF stands for "Enterprise Object Framework".
However, it's not "part of" the WebObjects app server... it predates WO
by a long time (I think it's about 9 or 10 years old) happens to come
with WO but is completely separate from it.
On Friday 14 June 2002 11:27, Drew Taylor w
At 10:59 AM 6/14/02 -0400, kyle dawkins wrote:
>As for people claiming never to have seen an OR system that works, I
>suggest you check out EOF from NeXT/Apple.
For those of you (like me) who didn't know what EOF is, it stands for
Enterprise Object Framework and is part of Apple's WebObjects ap
> The Pet Shop has a grand total of 13 tables.
>
> How well does this approach work with 90 tables? How does it handle
> arbitrary queries that may join 1-6 tables, with conditionals and
> sorting of arbitrary complexity?
Where I work we have over 90 tables and it works fine. We don't run a
ti
At 12:22 AM -0500 6/14/02, Dave Rolsky wrote:
>An Object-Relational mapper takes objects and stores them in a relational
>database, as transparently as possible. I think the most pure example of
>this I've seen in the Perl world is Tangram (www.tangram-persistence.org).
>SPOPS is also an O-R mapp
> > Generally I try to minimise the layers/tiers/abstraction between
> > the front-end and the database - for me OO/SQL abstraction is something
> > akin to 'GOTO considered harmful'.
>
HI Mark,
I'm not sure about a monolithic SQL factory module like the one
you describe. Generally,
On Fri, 14 Jun 2002 10:34:47 +0100 (BST)
Mark Fowler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: On Fri, 14 Jun 2002, Nigel Hamilton wrote:
:
: > Generally I try to minimise the layers/tiers/abstraction between
: > the front-end and the database - for me OO/SQL abstraction is something
: > akin to 'GOTO co
On Fri, 14 Jun 2002, Nigel Hamilton wrote:
> Generally I try to minimise the layers/tiers/abstraction between
> the front-end and the database - for me OO/SQL abstraction is something
> akin to 'GOTO considered harmful'.
I think there's room for middle ground here between mapping OO direct
On Fri, 14 Jun 2002, Nigel Hamilton wrote:
> > A) a ridiculously flexible interface that looks sort of like SQL, except
> > where it is SQL, except where it's only sort of like SQL, etc.
> >
> > B) a ridiculous profusion of classes, methods, or both.
> >
> > SQL has its place, and Alzabo merely p
> A) a ridiculously flexible interface that looks sort of like SQL, except
> where it is SQL, except where it's only sort of like SQL, etc.
>
> B) a ridiculous profusion of classes, methods, or both.
>
> SQL has its place, and Alzabo merely provides a thin layer on top of it.
>
> Trying to jam a t
On Fri, 14 Jun 2002, Fran Fabrizio wrote:
> >How well does this approach work with 90 tables? How does it handle
> >arbitrary queries that may join 1-6 tables, with conditionals and sorting
> >of arbitrary complexity?
>
> I'd have to agree, most of the real-world scenarios I have run across do
>
Dave Rolsky writes:
> The Pet Shop has a grand total of 13 tables.
>
> How well does this approach work with 90 tables?
Works fine with bivio.com, which has 50 tables.
> How does it handle arbitrary queries that may join 1-6 tables,
> with conditionals and sorting of arbitrary complexity?
The
>
> > Shop demostrates how you can build a simple application with only a
> > couple of custom SQL queries. The rest are simple joins and CRUD. If
> > you need more complex queries, there are escapes. You still probably
> > end up with a list of tuples for your reports. The key we have found
On Fri, 14 Jun 2002, Gunther Birznieks wrote:
> Would one of you mind providing a 1 paragraph definition of each? I am
> afraid that I am starting to get lost in the semantic differences of
> controllers and actions and O/R, R/O?
Well, here's my take on it.
An Object-Relational mapper takes
At 12:58 PM 6/14/2002, Dave Rolsky wrote:
>On Thu, 13 Jun 2002, Rob Nagler wrote:
>
>
>I'm not a big fan of O/R. I prefer R/O. But to each their own.
Would one of you mind providing a 1 paragraph definition of each? I am
afraid that I am starting to get lost in the semantic differences of
con
On Thu, 13 Jun 2002, Rob Nagler wrote:
> Most OLTP applications share a lot in common. The user inputs data in
> forms. The fields they edit often correspond one-to-one with database
> fields, and certainly their types. The user wants reports which are
> usually closely mapped to a table/view/
Dave Rolsky writes:
> Trying to jam a thick layer of OO-goodness over relational data is asking
> for a mess.
Most OLTP applications share a lot in common. The user inputs data in
forms. The fields they edit often correspond one-to-one with database
fields, and certainly their types. The user
On Thu, 13 Jun 2002, Perrin Harkins wrote:
> As you can see it gets messy fast, and I didn't even cover the
> Mastercard part. It would probably have terruble performance too. This
> is why people usually just write this kind of report as a big SQL query
> instead. You can make a model object
On 6/13/02 1:29 PM, Perrin Harkins wrote:
> Just be careful that you don't end up making this into something that
> mirrors the SQL exactly. There might be 4 tables involved in finding
> out what kind of credit card the user had, but that gets hidden behind
> this API. If you find yourself writi
Fran Fabrizio wrote:
> Now, how do you represent in the model a
> complex query that joins across 5 of the nouns?
Others have already commented on this, but I want to point out that this
is a general OO modelling question, not an MVC one, and there are many
resources available to help you learn
> -Original Message-
> From: Fran Fabrizio [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: 13 June 2002 13:23
> To: Jeff AA
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: separating C from V in MVC
>
>
> >Controller:
> >---
> >my $Stale = Mod
Fran
> Out of these two, I would think that the first one is actually
> better. What if you have 300,000 watches and only 25 are stale, for
> example (numbers that are not all that far from the truth, in my
> case)? That'd be a lot of data I'd be slinging around in the 2nd
> example. Which is
This might be of use to some. .
.http://st-www.cs.uiuc.edu/users/smarch/st-docs/mvc.html
Just as an intro to MVC -- I have found it invaluable.
Jeff AA wrote:
> I disagree with this definition of a Controller.
I knew someone would.
> A Controller is
> primarily responsible for mapping user input onto a business Model, and
> should not know that buying a ticket requires creation of concert,
> payment, seat, client, theatre, agent, reserv
I just wanted to comment on Number 3, here. Scroll down ;-)
kyle dawkins wrote:
>
> Fran (et al)
>
> I've stayed out of the MVC chitchat for a long time (very interesting
> thread) because it's such a deep topic. But seeing as how Fran has
> some concrete questions...
>
> > 3. How do you pr
Ok so Collections was the missing piece in my puzzle. Very interesting
(and intuitive now that you present it to me).
>Controller:
>---
>my $Stale = Model::WatchCollection->new( status => 'stale' );
>
>Controller:
>---
>my $WC= Model::WatchCollection->new();
Out of these
> -Original Message-
> From: Fran Fabrizio [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: 13 June 2002 06:48
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: separating C from V in MVC
>
>
>
> Ok, great stuff, now we're getting somewhere. So, the
> -Original Message-
> From: Perrin Harkins [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: 13 June 2002 03:43
> To: Fran Fabrizio; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: separating C from V in MVC
> > 2. Does the first part of my code above even remotely resemble a
> > Co
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On Thursday 13 June 2002 6:20 am, Rob Nagler wrote:
> Matt Sergeant writes:
> > > This assumes you need XML in the first place.
> >
> > No, it does not. The rest of my post spoke about XML as a
> > data format and set of tools, not as a syntax. Please
Ok, great stuff, now we're getting somewhere. So, the model = the
nouns. Good. That helps. Now, how do you represent in the model a
complex query that joins across 5 of the nouns? For example, our app is a
network monitoring and display tool. It receives status messages from
sites natio
Matt Sergeant writes:
> > This assumes you need XML in the first place.
>
> No, it does not. The rest of my post spoke about XML as a
> data format and set of tools, not as a syntax. Please stop
> thinking about XML as syntax!!
If my entire system is written in Perl, why do I need XML as a data
Wow, this is a long one. As usual, everyone has slightly different
ideas about how to do MVC, so keep a grain of salt handy.
> This basic pattern repeated ad infinitum. It's grown way out of
> control, is a pain to work with, and just feels wrong, very wrong. :-)
We've all been there.
> 1. I
Fran (et al)
I've stayed out of the MVC chitchat for a long time (very interesting
thread) because it's such a deep topic. But seeing as how Fran has
some concrete questions...
> 3. How do you prevent a Controller from just becoming another big if
> statement, or is this their purpose in li
On Jun 12 Jeff wrote:
>
>
> > From: Fran Fabrizio [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: 12 June 2002 21:48
>
> Nothing indepth, just a quick response ...
I too am using mod_perl just for Apache::Registry, and would also like to
look for alternatives.
Answers the questions posed by Fran woul
> From: Fran Fabrizio [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: 12 June 2002 21:48
Nothing indepth, just a quick response, but it looks like your huge if
statement can be replaced using a hash. Maybe something like:
# just an eg, this data is static and can be required from
# your startup.pl so that
Ok, thanks to you all and this great discussion I want to try to make
our current project into an MVC-style app, so what now? This MVC
discussion could not have come at a better time - our little app is all
grown up now and needs a real architecture. I have read the MVC threads
in depth now
On Wednesday 12 June 2002 4:09 am, Rob Nagler wrote:
> Matt Sergeant writes:
> > There's quite a few things that are a lot harder to do with XML in
> > plain perl (especially in SAX) than they are in XSLT.
>
> This assumes you need XML in the first place.
No, it does not. The rest of my post spok
> Gerald Richter wrote:
> > Embperl 2.0 can invoke such a controller (it's called application object
> > there) after it has setup it's request parameters (GET/POST data,
session
> > data, etc.) and before any templates are get a chance to run.
>
> That sounds like a good addition to Embperl. Can
Jeff AA writes:
> Sounds interesting, can you briefly describe the MVCF parts, and what
> their responsibilities are?
http://www.bivio.biz/hm/why-bOP contains a decent explanation of how
we think about MVC. There's also a talk with notes:
http://www.bivio.biz/hm/csci7818-bop-intro/intro
> Have
Matt Sergeant writes:
> There's quite a few things that are a lot harder to do with XML in
> plain perl (especially in SAX) than they are in XSLT.
This assumes you need XML in the first place.
It's trivial to manipulate Perl data structures in Perl. It's
also easy to manipulate XML in Perl. Ho
Gerald Richter wrote:
> Embperl 2.0 can invoke such a controller (it's called application object
> there) after it has setup it's request parameters (GET/POST data, session
> data, etc.) and before any templates are get a chance to run.
That sounds like a good addition to Embperl. Can you give a
> >
> > [% Ctrl.Search() %]
> >
> > makes Controller::Search any less a controller.
>
> You're right. It just looks kind of odd to me, invoking a template for
> something that is not a display-related task. It looks like the way
> people typically do MVC in Mason or Embperl, with a first templat
At 01:01 PM 06/11/02 -0400, John Siracusa wrote:
>On 6/11/02 12:46 PM, Perrin Harkins wrote:
>> John Hurst wrote:
>>> Still, I don't think that replacing this:
>>>
>>>
>>>SetHandler perl-script
>>>PerlHandler Controller::Search
>>>
>>>
>>> with this:
>>>
>>> [% Ctrl.Search() %]
>>>
On Tue, 11 Jun 2002, John Siracusa wrote:
> > You're right. It just looks kind of odd to me, invoking a template for
> > something that is not a display-related task. It looks like the way
> > people typically do MVC in Mason or Embperl, with a first template that
> > doesn't do anything but i
On 6/11/02 12:46 PM, Perrin Harkins wrote:
> John Hurst wrote:
>> Still, I don't think that replacing this:
>>
>>
>>SetHandler perl-script
>>PerlHandler Controller::Search
>>
>>
>> with this:
>>
>> [% Ctrl.Search() %]
>>
>> makes Controller::Search any less a controller.
>
> You're
John Hurst wrote:
> Still, I don't think that replacing this:
>
>
>SetHandler perl-script
>PerlHandler Controller::Search
>
>
> with this:
>
> [% Ctrl.Search() %]
>
> makes Controller::Search any less a controller.
You're right. It just looks kind of odd to me, invoking a template
Ward Vuillemot wrote:
> I know we are straying WOT, but I would love to get a better feel for XML, XSLT and
>AxKit.
Barrie Slaymaker has written a couple of articles on perl.com that serve
as a good intro to AxKit.
- Perrin
On Tue, 11 Jun 2002, Ward Vuillemot wrote:
> I know we are straying WOT, but I would love to get a better feel for
> XML, XSLT and AxKit. There are a lot of different systems out there. .
> .and part of me wants to just do it my way (in large part to learn), but
> I also realize that I really wa
I know we are straying WOT, but I would love to get a better feel for XML, XSLT and
AxKit. There are a lot of different systems out there. . .and part of me wants to
just do it my way (in large part to learn), but I also realize that I really want to
get to the business of also being productiv
On Tuesday, June 11, 2002, at 01:37 PM, Chris Winters wrote:
> On Mon, 2002-06-10 at 13:29, Ray Zimmerman wrote:
>> So how is everybody else handling URL mapping? Do others group this
>> kind of data together with fonts, colors, etc? And where do you
>> define it?
>
> A single mod_perl handler
On Mon, 2002-06-10 at 13:29, Ray Zimmerman wrote:
> So how is everybody else handling URL mapping? Do others group this
> kind of data together with fonts, colors, etc? And where do you
> define it?
As Perrin mentioned, OpenInteract does this by allowing individual
packages (distributable appl
> From: Rob Nagler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: 10 June 2002 20:41
> ... a Facade is the front face of the web site which includes colors,
> text, URLs, etc. All the other MVC components talk to the currently
> selected Facade when they need these values.
> The controller calls Bivio::U
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On Monday 10 June 2002 11:23 pm, Vuillemot, Ward W wrote:
>: Really interesting, xml
>: appears to be
>: the final destination for most of us, even if now i
>: prefer objects.
>:
>: Ciao, Valerio
>
> That is my big questio
Perrin Harkins wrote:
>
> On Mon, 10 Jun 2002, I wrote:
> >
>>In the filesystem. Directly requested .tt files are all sent to a
>>default template handler:
>
> Those are both interesting and may be the most appropriate solution for
> the problems you're working on, but I wouldn't call either of
On Mon, 10 Jun 2002, Matt Sergeant wrote:
> > It seems perfect for mod_perl2. Really interesting, xml appears to be
> > the final destination for most of us, even if now i prefer objects.
>
> There's no conflict between using XML and using Objects if you're using AxKit.
> Especially thanks to Si
: Really interesting, xml
: appears to be
: the final destination for most of us, even if now i
: prefer objects.
:
: Ciao, Valerio
That is my big question. Is XML/XSLT really the right solution? Using SAX
along with having tags call handlers seems like a pretty powe
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On Monday 10 June 2002 11:09 pm, Valerio_Valdez Paolini wrote:
> On Mon, 10 Jun 2002, James G Smith wrote:
> > I'm working on a framework that will use the Mason component as the
> > controller, Perl modules as the model, and either Mason components o
On Mon, 10 Jun 2002, James G Smith wrote:
> I'm working on a framework that will use the Mason component as the
> controller, Perl modules as the model, and either Mason components or
> TT templates called from the controller as the view. The view would
> output XML that would then be put throu
On Mon, 10 Jun 2002, Perrin Harkins wrote:
> Those are both interesting and may be the most appropriate solution for
> the problems you're working on, but I wouldn't call either of them MVC.
> You are going straight to a view (template) and letting it drive all
> the decisions. In an MVC appl
Valerio_Valdez Paolini <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> Ray Zimmerman wrote:
>> So how is everybody else handling URL mapping?
>
>On Mon, 10 Jun 2002, John Hurst wrote:
>
>> In the filesystem. Directly requested .tt files are all sent to a
>> default template handler:
>[...]
>> % cat admin/proj-edi
Valerio_Valdez Paolini wrote:
> On Mon, 10 Jun 2002, John Hurst wrote:
>
>
>>In the filesystem. Directly requested .tt files are all sent to a
>>default template handler:
...
> I used html pages with augmented tags parsed by a standard handler:
Those are both interesting and may be the most app
> Ray Zimmerman wrote:
> So how is everybody else handling URL mapping?
On Mon, 10 Jun 2002, John Hurst wrote:
> In the filesystem. Directly requested .tt files are all sent to a
> default template handler:
[...]
> % cat admin/proj-edit.tt
> [% Ctrl.DBEdit.run(ObjectType => 'Project') %]
I use
Ray Zimmerman writes:
> (1) What are you using to display the nice syntax-colored Perl source
> at http://petshop.bivio.biz/ ?
We fix up the output from perl2html with our SourceCode widget:
http://petshop.bivio.biz/src?s=Bivio::UI::HTML::Widget::SourceCode
The pod looks better when formatted
> Ray Zimmerman wrote:
> So how is everybody else handling URL mapping?
In the filesystem. Directly requested .tt files are all sent to a
default template handler:
SetHandler perl-script
PerlHandler UAL::TTEngine
AddType text/tt .tt
Action text/tt /tt_engine>
The default template handler p
Ray Zimmerman wrote:
> So how is everybody else handling URL mapping?
In httpd.conf:
SetHandler perl-script
PerlHandler Controller::Search
SetHandler perl-script
PerlHandler Controller::ShoppingCart
Most applications only have a handful of controllers, so this works fine.
Yo
At 12:02 AM -0600 6/6/02, Rob Nagler wrote:
>To solve this problem, we added a letter. bOP is MVCF, where F stands
>for Facade. A Facade allows you to control icons, files, colors,
>fonts, text, and tasks. You can add other components, but we usually
>use text as a catch all, e.g. numeric forma
On Sat, Jun 08, 2002 at 08:51:48AM +0800, Gunther Birznieks wrote:
> >I'm a huge fan of passing Date::Simple objects, which can then take a
> >strftime format string:
> > [% date.format("%d %b %y") %]
> > [% date.format("%Y-%m-%d") %]
> And the latter does not require a programmer?
Of course
On Fri, Jun 07, 2002 at 09:14:25AM +0100, Tony Bowden wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 06, 2002 at 05:08:56PM -0400, Sam Tregar wrote:
> > > Suppose you have a model object for a concert which includes a date. On
> > > one page, the designers want to dipslay the date in a verbose way with
> > > the month spe
At 04:14 PM 6/7/2002, Tony Bowden wrote:
>On Thu, Jun 06, 2002 at 05:08:56PM -0400, Sam Tregar wrote:
> > > Suppose you have a model object for a concert which includes a date. On
> > > one page, the designers want to dipslay the date in a verbose way with
> > > the month spelled out, but on anot
Hey Tony --
>I'm a huge fan of passing Date::Simple objects, which can then take a
>strftime format string:
>
> [% date.format("%d %b %y") %]
> [% date.format("%Y-%m-%d") %]
Out of curiosity, at what point of flexibility do you feel it is OK for your
designers to go back to the programmers?
::realizes this may be going a bit futher a field ... but tries to maintain
topicality::
> Chris writes:
>> Perl handels Regex's better than C, this is one of the reasons people
>> use Perl.
>
> I disagree. Perl's Regex processor is written in C. The difference is
> that it has outgrown Henr
On Thu, Jun 06, 2002 at 05:08:56PM -0400, Sam Tregar wrote:
> > Suppose you have a model object for a concert which includes a date. On
> > one page, the designers want to dipslay the date in a verbose way with
> > the month spelled out, but on another they want it abbreviated and fixed
> > lengt
::really hesitates to step into this ... but like a train wreck ... he
simply can't resist::
>> It's like asking why XML has different syntax and semantics from Perl.
>
> Well, if you read the XSLT spec and then look at an XSLT program,
> you'll see a lot of verbosity and a lot of general purpo
On Thu, Jun 06, 2002 at 08:15:24PM -0600, Rob Nagler wrote:
> The issue here is not whether TT is a bad approach, but rather why the
> syntax is not Perl.
One reason is that I like to have minimal syntax in the templates. One
argument often used is that non-programmer find it easier to say foo
On Fri, 2002-06-07 at 03:15, Rob Nagler wrote:
> Agreed. Perl is good at text manipulation. It is imiho superior to
> XSLT in all spaces which XSLT claims to solve. Once you have an XML
> parse tree in Perl, it's trivial to write a translator to any format
> more correctly than XSLT. My favori
> On Thu, 6 Jun 2002 20:15:24 -0600, Rob Nagler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
>> (http://sourceforge.net/projects/poop/).
RN> Great, another mailing list. :-) Thanks.
It is not just mailing list. Don't miss
http://poop.sourceforge.net/. It has nice review of most Perl OO
persistence modules.
Andy Wardley writes:
> Yep, I agree.
Now we are getting somewhere. :-)
The issue here is not whether TT is a bad approach, but rather why the
syntax is not Perl. It doesn't have to be, but you would save
yourself a lot of code and debugging. In addition, there is more
opportunity for reuse if
On Thu, 6 Jun 2002, Perrin Harkins wrote:
> For posterity, and possible inclusion in the next rev of the templating
> tutorial, how would you recommend people handle this sort of situation
> without using HTML::Template::Expr?
>
> Suppose you have a model object for a concert which includes a dat
Sam Tregar wrote:
> Now, I don't use HTML::Template::Expr. I think it's generally not such a
> good idea. But it's there if you want it...
For posterity, and possible inclusion in the next rev of the templating
tutorial, how would you recommend people handle this sort of situation
without usi
TED]> on 06/05/2002 06:45:34 PM
To: Andy Wardley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
cc: modperl List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Template
Toolkit List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> (bcc:
Wesley Sheldahl/Lex/Lexmark)
Subject: Re: Separating Aspects (Re: separating C from V in MVC)
Here'
On Thu, Jun 06, 2002 at 12:02:47AM -0600, Rob Nagler wrote:
> These are the reserve words of TT:
[...]
> Looks an awful lot like the same keywords in any general-purpose
> programming language.
Yep, I agree. You can use it like a programming language and it
gives you more than enough rope to ha
Andy Wardley writes:
> Because Perl is a general purpose programming language. TT implements
> a general purpose presentation language. A different kettle of fish
> altogether.
These are the reserve words of TT:
GET CALL SET DEFAULT INSERT INCLUDE PROCESS WRAPPER
IF UNLESS ELSE ELSIF
On Wed, 5 Jun 2002, Andy Wardley wrote:
> In TT, you would usually pre-declare a particular format in a config
> file, pre-processed templates, or some other "global" style document.
> e.g.
>
> [% USE money = format('%.02f') %]
>
> In your main page templates you would do something like this:
>
On Mon, Jun 03, 2002 at 09:49:59PM -0600, Rob Nagler wrote:
> Another concern I have about Template Toolkit (and other template
> languages) is that it has its own syntax and semantics for data and
> control structures distinct from Perl. Why isn't Perl good enough?
Because Perl is a general pur
On Fri, May 31, 2002 at 12:21:45PM -0400, Jesse Erlbaum wrote:
> It's the "addition tricks" which bug me out. With those two words you
> establish the mother of all slippery slopes to architecture oblivion.
True. And in your Perl code you can also write all sorts of dangerous code
that totall
On Thu, May 30, 2002 at 05:42:23PM -0400, Jesse Erlbaum wrote:
> It has been my experience that applying a design pattern such as MVC is not
> a panacea.
[...]
> My point: My
> code isn't good because I apply some "pattern" to it. It may be good, and
> it may resemble a pattern -- but those two
On Mon, Jun 03, 2002 at 08:09:12AM -0600, Rob Nagler wrote:
> > [% FILTER font('my_first_name_font') %]
> > ... some text, possibly with other template directives in it...
> > [% END %]
>
> One of the reasons Perl is popular is its idioms. Having to say
> something in three lines is not as idiom
Continuing from the thread on the modperl mailing list:
On Sun, Jun 02, 2002 at 05:04:01PM -0400, Sam Tregar wrote:
> > I don't think the standard HTML::Template has support for formatting
> > numbers, dates, etc.
>
> And thank the sweet lord it doesn't! HTML::Template is a "do one thing
> and
On 6/4/02 12:32 PM, Perrin Harkins wrote:
> The thing that worries me about a widget approach is that I would have
> the same problem I had with CGI.pm's HTML widgets way back: the
> designers can't change the HTML easilly. Getting perl developers out of
> the HTML business is my main reason for
Rob Nagler wrote:
> The way I understand how plugins work is that they are arbitrary
> classes. But how do you share behavior?
I probably wouldn't use a plugin for something that needed to output
HTML, because that would prevent the designers from editing it. A macro
(basically a mini-templat
Perrin Harkins writes:
> I just didn't put in any fancy HTML in my example. I could have put in
> table tags right there, or made a macro if that table gets repeated a
> lot. Looks to me like they work the same. In TT, I would probably use
> macros or small templates (possibly defined in thi
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