Re: [Moses-support] Dual Licensing or relicensing Moses

[Tommi A Pirinen]

[Replies inline]
On Wed, 30 May 2018 03:59:23 +0800
liling tan  wrote:

> But I agree with Matt that if everyone that contributed give their
> consensus, there's no reason why the tokenizer can't be relicensed.
> Some of them have already given the OK and replied to previous
> threads. But to reach everyone I shall try BCC-ing all of them in
> this reply.
>
> [...]
> For those who are BCC-ed, would you agree to allow the Python port of
> the Moses tokenizer to have MIT license instead of LGPL?


Not sure if I replied earlier, but relicencing is ok by me. I cannot
remember what I've actually contributed but it must've been some pretty
trivial oneliner for Finnish tokenisations.


-- 
Doktor Tommi A Pirinen, Computational Linguist,
, Universität
Hamburg, Hamburger Zentrum für Sprachkorpora . CLARIN-D
Entwickler.  President of ACL SIGUR SIG for Uralic languages
.
I tend to follow inline-posting style in desktop e-mail messages.

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Re: [Moses-support] Dual Licensing or relicensing Moses

[Tom Hoar]

My last message was based on labeling inside the Moses source. Based on 
the Moses home page http://statmt.org/moses page, "Moses is licensed 
under the LGPL." with a link to: http://www.gnu.org/licenses/lgpl.html. 
Moses is also a combined work, so section 4 "Combined Works" applies. 
Section 2 under that license states:



   2. Conveying Modified Versions.

   If you modify a copy of the Library, and, in your modifications, a
   facility refers to a function or data to be supplied by an
   Application that uses the facility (other than as an argument passed
   when the facility is invoked), then you may convey a copy of the
   modified version:

 * a) under this License, provided that you make a good faith
   effort to ensure that, in the event an Application does not
   supply the function or data, the facility still operates, and
   performs whatever part of its purpose remains meaningful, or
 * b) under the GNU GPL, with none of the additional permissions of
   this License applicable to that copy.

Lane, I agree that the copyright owner(s), and only the owners whoever 
they are, can agree to publish a module (like the tokenizer) under 
another license. In that case, a new fork is published under the new 
license but it does not revoke the master's original license. The two 
separate forks are simultaneously published and licensed separately. Any 
changes the owners make to the new fork must be applied regressively the 
master under the original license. Any changes made by any non-own to 
any fork must be republished under the respective license for that fork. 
Labeling a module with multiple license terms has been done, but creates 
huge complications. There are likely conflicts that, if it were 
contested, a court could invalidate all licensing.


Ken, ownership is tricky. It's governed by different sovereign laws. The 
laws in the USA are different than the laws in Thailand, which may be 
different from those in the UK. In most cases I know of, a contract's IP 
assignment clause declares who owns the work-for-hire. If ownership is 
not assigned in the contract, the respective law kicks in. The law in 
the USA assigns ownership to the author if the author is an independent 
contractor, and assigns ownership to the employer if the author is an 
employee. The law in Thailand is exactly the opposite. It assigns 
ownership to the employee if the author is an employee, and assigns 
ownership to the employer if the author is an independent contractor. I 
do not know the laws in the UK. The only clear path is to assign 
ownership in the work-for-hire contract. That's why I recommended that 
someone check with the University's intellectual property office.


All that said and regardless of ownership, you're safe to act on your 
own when you publish change under the license terms of the fork you 
changed. That's the heart-and-soul of open source licensing.


Tom




Date: Wed, 30 May 2018 04:03:05 +0800
From: liling tan
Subject: Re: [Moses-support] Dual Licensing or relicensing Moses
To: Matt Post
Cc: moses-support

Do note that I did receive a "no" from one of them so I'm not exactly sure
whether everyone's "yes" will change the "no".

Meanwhile, I think it's shouldn't be a problem since the Python port of
Moses' tokenizer does exist separately.
Users just have to make sure that they don't mix it up with more permissive
license when redistributing code.

Regards,
Liling


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Re: [Moses-support] Dual Licensing or relicensing Moses

[liling tan]

Do note that I did receive a "no" from one of them so I'm not exactly sure
whether everyone's "yes" will change the "no".

Meanwhile, I think it's shouldn't be a problem since the Python port of
Moses' tokenizer does exist separately.
Users just have to make sure that they don't mix it up with more permissive
license when redistributing code.

Regards,
Liling

On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 3:59 AM, liling tan  wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> Multiple license for software components isn't impossible. If anyone tries
> to ship/package code with LGPL Moses tokenizer and detokenizer inside an
> MIT or Apache license software, it would be causing a license headache to
> their legal/IP colleagues.
>
> From NLTK perspective, I think it's easier for us to just take the code
> out and create a new repo for it at https://github.com/alvation
> s/sacremoses
>
> But I agree with Matt that if everyone that contributed give their
> consensus, there's no reason why the tokenizer can't be relicensed. Some of
> them have already given the OK and replied to previous threads. But to
> reach everyone I shall try BCC-ing all of them in this reply.
>
> For those who are BCC-ed and have already given their consent, thank you
> and sorry for re-receiving the request!
> For those who are BCC-ed, would you agree to allow the Python port of the
> Moses tokenizer to have MIT license instead of LGPL?
>
> Regards,
> Liling
>
>
> On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 3:00 AM, Matt Post  wrote:
>
>> Hi Lane,
>>
>> I'm not really involved with Moses or NLTK and never meant to take that
>> on personally. However, it still seems to me like a reasonable and
>> achievable goal.
>>
>> matt
>>
>>
>> On May 29, 2018, at 4:53 PM, Lane Schwartz  wrote:
>>
>> Matt,
>>
>> Did you ever track down the people who contributed to the tokenizer? It
>> seems like we should be able to dual license that script. It would be very
>> nice to be able to include the Moses tokenizer and detokenizer as part of
>> NLTK.
>>
>> Lane
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 20, 2018 at 12:38 AM, liling tan  wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Moses Devs and Community,
>>>
>>> Sorry for the delayed response.
>>>
>>> We've repackaged the MosesTokenizer Python code as a library and made it
>>> pip-able.
>>> https://github.com/alvations/sacremoses
>>>
>>> I hope that's okay with the Moses community and the license compliance
>>> is good with this now.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Liling
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 1:41 AM, Matt Post  wrote:
>>>
 Seems worth a shot. I suggest contacting each of them with individual
 emails until (and if) you get a “no”.

 matt (from my phone)

 Le 10 avr. 2018 à 19:26, liling tan  a écrit :

 @Matt I'm not sure whether that'll work.


 For tokenizer, that'll include:


- [image: @phikoehn] phikoehn 
- [image: @hieuhoang] hieuhoang 
- [image: @bhaddow] bhaddow 
- [image: @jimregan] jimregan 
- [image: @kpu] kpu 
- [image: @ugermann] ugermann 
- [image: @pjwilliams] pjwilliams 
- [image: @jgwinnup] jgwinnup 
- [image: @mhuck] mhuck 
- [image: @tofula] tofula 
- [image: @a455bcd9] a455bcd9 


 And these for the detokenizer:

 -
 [image: @phikoehn] phikoehn 
 - [image: @flammie] flammie 
 - [image: @hieuhoang] hieuhoang 
 - [image: @pjwilliams] pjwilliams 
 - [image: @bhaddow] bhaddow 
 - [image: @alvations] alvations 

 Not sure if everyone agrees though.

 Regards,
 Liling

 On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 12:39 AM, Matt Post  wrote:

> Liling—Would it work to get the permission of just those people who
> are in the commit log of the specific scripts you want to port?
>
> matt (from my phone)
>
> Le 10 avr. 2018 à 18:19, liling tan  a écrit :
>
> Got it.
>
> So I think we'll just remove the MosesTokenizer and MosesDetokenizer
> function from NLTK and maybe create a PR to put it in
> mosesdecoder/scripts/tokenizer
>
> Thank you for the clarification!
> Liling
>
> On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 12:17 AM, Hieu Hoang 
> wrote:
>
>> Still the same problem - everyone owns Moses so you need everyone's
>> permission, not just mine. So no
>>
>> Hieu Hoang
>> http://moses-smt.org/
>>
>>
>> On 10 April 2018 at 17:13, liling tan  wrote:
>>
>>> I understand.
>>>
>>> Could we have permission that it's okay to derive work f

Re: [Moses-support] Dual Licensing or relicensing Moses

[liling tan]

Hi All,

Multiple license for software components isn't impossible. If anyone tries
to ship/package code with LGPL Moses tokenizer and detokenizer inside an
MIT or Apache license software, it would be causing a license headache to
their legal/IP colleagues.

>From NLTK perspective, I think it's easier for us to just take the code out
and create a new repo for it at https://github.com/alvations/sacremoses

But I agree with Matt that if everyone that contributed give their
consensus, there's no reason why the tokenizer can't be relicensed. Some of
them have already given the OK and replied to previous threads. But to
reach everyone I shall try BCC-ing all of them in this reply.

For those who are BCC-ed and have already given their consent, thank you
and sorry for re-receiving the request!
For those who are BCC-ed, would you agree to allow the Python port of the
Moses tokenizer to have MIT license instead of LGPL?

Regards,
Liling


On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 3:00 AM, Matt Post  wrote:

> Hi Lane,
>
> I'm not really involved with Moses or NLTK and never meant to take that on
> personally. However, it still seems to me like a reasonable and achievable
> goal.
>
> matt
>
>
> On May 29, 2018, at 4:53 PM, Lane Schwartz  wrote:
>
> Matt,
>
> Did you ever track down the people who contributed to the tokenizer? It
> seems like we should be able to dual license that script. It would be very
> nice to be able to include the Moses tokenizer and detokenizer as part of
> NLTK.
>
> Lane
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 20, 2018 at 12:38 AM, liling tan  wrote:
>
>> Dear Moses Devs and Community,
>>
>> Sorry for the delayed response.
>>
>> We've repackaged the MosesTokenizer Python code as a library and made it
>> pip-able.
>> https://github.com/alvations/sacremoses
>>
>> I hope that's okay with the Moses community and the license compliance is
>> good with this now.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Liling
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 1:41 AM, Matt Post  wrote:
>>
>>> Seems worth a shot. I suggest contacting each of them with individual
>>> emails until (and if) you get a “no”.
>>>
>>> matt (from my phone)
>>>
>>> Le 10 avr. 2018 à 19:26, liling tan  a écrit :
>>>
>>> @Matt I'm not sure whether that'll work.
>>>
>>>
>>> For tokenizer, that'll include:
>>>
>>>
>>>- [image: @phikoehn] phikoehn 
>>>- [image: @hieuhoang] hieuhoang 
>>>- [image: @bhaddow] bhaddow 
>>>- [image: @jimregan] jimregan 
>>>- [image: @kpu] kpu 
>>>- [image: @ugermann] ugermann 
>>>- [image: @pjwilliams] pjwilliams 
>>>- [image: @jgwinnup] jgwinnup 
>>>- [image: @mhuck] mhuck 
>>>- [image: @tofula] tofula 
>>>- [image: @a455bcd9] a455bcd9 
>>>
>>>
>>> And these for the detokenizer:
>>>
>>> -
>>> [image: @phikoehn] phikoehn 
>>> - [image: @flammie] flammie 
>>> - [image: @hieuhoang] hieuhoang 
>>> - [image: @pjwilliams] pjwilliams 
>>> - [image: @bhaddow] bhaddow 
>>> - [image: @alvations] alvations 
>>>
>>> Not sure if everyone agrees though.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Liling
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 12:39 AM, Matt Post  wrote:
>>>
 Liling—Would it work to get the permission of just those people who are
 in the commit log of the specific scripts you want to port?

 matt (from my phone)

 Le 10 avr. 2018 à 18:19, liling tan  a écrit :

 Got it.

 So I think we'll just remove the MosesTokenizer and MosesDetokenizer
 function from NLTK and maybe create a PR to put it in
 mosesdecoder/scripts/tokenizer

 Thank you for the clarification!
 Liling

 On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 12:17 AM, Hieu Hoang 
 wrote:

> Still the same problem - everyone owns Moses so you need everyone's
> permission, not just mine. So no
>
> Hieu Hoang
> http://moses-smt.org/
>
>
> On 10 April 2018 at 17:13, liling tan  wrote:
>
>> I understand.
>>
>> Could we have permission that it's okay to derive work from Moses
>> with respect to the (de-)tokenizer and possibly other scripts under an
>> MIT/Apache tool?
>>
>> Legally it's a restriction but I think for what's it worth, having
>> mutual agreement between the OSS is sufficient to still keep any port of
>> LGPL work until someone starts to enforce legal actions and I think it's
>> safe to back off to taking down these functionalities in the Apache/MIT
>> code.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Liling
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 12:09 AM, Hieu Hoang 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> we can

Re: [Moses-support] Dual Licensing or relicensing Moses

[Matt Post]

Hi Lane,

I'm not really involved with Moses or NLTK and never meant to take that on 
personally. However, it still seems to me like a reasonable and achievable goal.

matt

> On May 29, 2018, at 4:53 PM, Lane Schwartz  > wrote:
> 
> Matt,
> 
> Did you ever track down the people who contributed to the tokenizer? It seems 
> like we should be able to dual license that script. It would be very nice to 
> be able to include the Moses tokenizer and detokenizer as part of NLTK.
> 
> Lane
> 
> 
> On Fri, Apr 20, 2018 at 12:38 AM, liling tan  > wrote:
> Dear Moses Devs and Community,
> 
> Sorry for the delayed response. 
> 
> We've repackaged the MosesTokenizer Python code as a library and made it 
> pip-able.
> https://github.com/alvations/sacremoses 
> 
> 
> I hope that's okay with the Moses community and the license compliance is 
> good with this now.
> 
> Regards,
> Liling
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 1:41 AM, Matt Post  > wrote:
> Seems worth a shot. I suggest contacting each of them with individual emails 
> until (and if) you get a “no”. 
> 
> matt (from my phone)
> 
> Le 10 avr. 2018 à 19:26, liling tan  > a écrit :
> 
>> @Matt I'm not sure whether that'll work.
>> 
>> 
>> For tokenizer, that'll include:
>>  
>>  phikoehn 
>>  hieuhoang 
>>  bhaddow 
>>  jimregan 
>>  kpu 
>>  ugermann 
>>  pjwilliams 
>>  jgwinnup 
>>  mhuck 
>>  tofula 
>>  a455bcd9 
>> 
>> And these for the detokenizer:
>> 
>> 
>>  phikoehn 
>>  flammie 
>>  hieuhoang 
>>  pjwilliams 
>>  bhaddow 
>>  alvations 
>> 
>> Not sure if everyone agrees though.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Liling
>> 
>> On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 12:39 AM, Matt Post > > wrote:
>> Liling—Would it work to get the permission of just those people who are in 
>> the commit log of the specific scripts you want to port?
>> 
>> matt (from my phone)
>> 
>> Le 10 avr. 2018 à 18:19, liling tan > > a écrit :
>> 
>>> Got it. 
>>> 
>>> So I think we'll just remove the MosesTokenizer and MosesDetokenizer 
>>> function from NLTK and maybe create a PR to put it in 
>>> mosesdecoder/scripts/tokenizer 
>>> 
>>> Thank you for the clarification!
>>> Liling
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 12:17 AM, Hieu Hoang >> > wrote:
>>> Still the same problem - everyone owns Moses so you need everyone's 
>>> permission, not just mine. So no
>>> 
>>> Hieu Hoang
>>> http://moses-smt.org/ 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 10 April 2018 at 17:13, liling tan >> > wrote:
>>> I understand. 
>>> 
>>> Could we have permission that it's okay to derive work from Moses with 
>>> respect to the (de-)tokenizer and possibly other scripts under an 
>>> MIT/Apache tool? 
>>> 
>>> Legally it's a restriction but I think for what's it worth, having mutual 
>>> agreement between the OSS is sufficient to still keep any port of LGPL work 
>>> until someone starts to enforce legal actions and I think it's safe to back 
>>> off to taking down these functionalities in the Apache/MIT code. 
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> Liling
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 12:09 AM, Hieu Hoang >> > wrote:
>>> we can't change the license, or dual license it, without the agreement of 
>>> everyone who's contributed to Moses. Too much work 
>>> 
>>> Hieu Hoang
>>> http://moses-smt.org/ 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 10 April 2018 at 15:47, liling tan >> > wrote:
>>> Dear Moses Dev,
>>> 
>>> NLTK has a Python port of the word tokenizer in Moses. The tokenizer works 
>>> well in Python and create a good synergy to bridge Python users to the code 
>>> that Moses developers have spent years to hone. 
>>> 
>>> But it seemed to have hit a wall with some licensing issues. 
>>> https://github.com/nltk/nltk/issues/2000 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> General port of LGPL code is considered derivative and is incompatible with 
>>> Apache or MIT license. I understand that LGPL keeps derivative from being 
>>> proprietary but it's a little less permissive than non-copyleft license 
>>> like Apache and MIT licenses. 
>>> 
>>> Note that this licensing issue might also affect Marian which is MIT 
>>> license and also incompatible with LGPL so although technically users can 
>>> chain the code from different libraries, but Marian couldn't

Re: [Moses-support] Dual Licensing or relicensing Moses

[Kenneth Heafield]

Hi,

    Just to clarify that employees of the University of Edinburgh would
technically go to the university while PhD students keep the code they
write.  Our IP people won't mind if we authors choose to allow another
license. 

Kenneth


On 05/29/2018 11:03 AM, Lane Schwartz wrote:
> The source code's copyright IPR is the property of the University of
> Edinburgh. It's polite to track down the authors/contributors, but
> it's not necessary. The University's legal/intellectual property
> department is the authority and best source of information about
> licensing. 

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Re: [Moses-support] Dual Licensing or relicensing Moses

[Lane Schwartz]

Tom,

Moses is licensed under LGPL. But if the contributors agree, there's no
reason that the tokenizer script can't also be simultaneously licensed
under Apache.

Most open source projects only have a single license, but there are
certainly cases where code is distributed under more than one license.

Lane


On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 10:27 AM, Tom Hoar  wrote:

> Hi Liling,
>
> I'm not sure what you mean by "dual licensing or re-license." Software is
> published under one license, which may or may not be compatible with other
> licenses. The Moses trunk is licensed under LGPL2.1, except those modules
> specifically republished under their respective licenses. My copy of
> tokenizer.perl script shows it's LGPL2.1. Under those terms, any changes to
> its code, if published, must be published under LGPL2.1 or newer. It looks
> to me like you've done that.
>
> You might have problems including a Python version of tokenizer.perl in
> NLTK because NLTK is licensed under the incompatible Apache License Version
> 2.0, at least according to this site, https://www.quora.com/What-
> are-the-major-differences-between-GNU-LGPL-v3-and-v2-1.
>
> The source code's copyright IPR is the property of the University of
> Edinburgh. It's polite to track down the authors/contributors, but it's not
> necessary. The University's legal/intellectual property department is the
> authority and best source of information about licensing.
>
> Tom
>
>
> On 5/29/2018 9:53 PM, moses-support-requ...@mit.edu wrote:
>
> Date: Tue, 29 May 2018 09:53:03 -0500
> From: Lane Schwartz  
> Subject: Re: [Moses-support] Dual Licensing or relicensing Moses
> To: liling tan  
> Cc: moses-support  
>
> Matt,
>
> Did you ever track down the people who contributed to the tokenizer? It
> seems like we should be able to dual license that script. It would be very
> nice to be able to include the Moses tokenizer and detokenizer as part of
> NLTK.
>
> Lane
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 20, 2018 at 12:38 AM, liling tan  
>  wrote:
>
>
> Dear Moses Devs and Community,
>
> Sorry for the delayed response.
>
> We've repackaged the MosesTokenizer Python code as a library and made it
> pip-able.https://github.com/alvations/sacremoses
>
> I hope that's okay with the Moses community and the license compliance is
> good with this now.
>
> Regards,
> Liling
>
>
>
>
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>
>


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Re: [Moses-support] Dual Licensing or relicensing Moses

[Tom Hoar]

Hi Liling,

I'm not sure what you mean by "dual licensing or re-license." Software 
is published under one license, which may or may not be compatible with 
other licenses. The Moses trunk is licensed under LGPL2.1, except those 
modules specifically republished under their respective licenses. My 
copy of tokenizer.perl script shows it's LGPL2.1. Under those terms, any 
changes to its code, if published, must be published under LGPL2.1 or 
newer. It looks to me like you've done that.


You might have problems including a Python version of tokenizer.perl in 
NLTK because NLTK is licensed under the incompatible Apache License 
Version 2.0, at least according to this site, 
https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-major-differences-between-GNU-LGPL-v3-and-v2-1.


The source code's copyright IPR is the property of the University of 
Edinburgh. It's polite to track down the authors/contributors, but it's 
not necessary. The University's legal/intellectual property department 
is the authority and best source of information about licensing.


Tom


On 5/29/2018 9:53 PM, moses-support-requ...@mit.edu wrote:

Date: Tue, 29 May 2018 09:53:03 -0500
From: Lane Schwartz
Subject: Re: [Moses-support] Dual Licensing or relicensing Moses
To: liling tan
Cc: moses-support

Matt,

Did you ever track down the people who contributed to the tokenizer? It
seems like we should be able to dual license that script. It would be very
nice to be able to include the Moses tokenizer and detokenizer as part of
NLTK.

Lane


On Fri, Apr 20, 2018 at 12:38 AM, liling tan  wrote:


Dear Moses Devs and Community,

Sorry for the delayed response.

We've repackaged the MosesTokenizer Python code as a library and made it
pip-able.
https://github.com/alvations/sacremoses

I hope that's okay with the Moses community and the license compliance is
good with this now.

Regards,
Liling



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Re: [Moses-support] Dual Licensing or relicensing Moses

[Lane Schwartz]

Matt,

Did you ever track down the people who contributed to the tokenizer? It
seems like we should be able to dual license that script. It would be very
nice to be able to include the Moses tokenizer and detokenizer as part of
NLTK.

Lane


On Fri, Apr 20, 2018 at 12:38 AM, liling tan  wrote:

> Dear Moses Devs and Community,
>
> Sorry for the delayed response.
>
> We've repackaged the MosesTokenizer Python code as a library and made it
> pip-able.
> https://github.com/alvations/sacremoses
>
> I hope that's okay with the Moses community and the license compliance is
> good with this now.
>
> Regards,
> Liling
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 1:41 AM, Matt Post  wrote:
>
>> Seems worth a shot. I suggest contacting each of them with individual
>> emails until (and if) you get a “no”.
>>
>> matt (from my phone)
>>
>> Le 10 avr. 2018 à 19:26, liling tan  a écrit :
>>
>> @Matt I'm not sure whether that'll work.
>>
>>
>> For tokenizer, that'll include:
>>
>>
>>- [image: @phikoehn] phikoehn 
>>- [image: @hieuhoang] hieuhoang 
>>- [image: @bhaddow] bhaddow 
>>- [image: @jimregan] jimregan 
>>- [image: @kpu] kpu 
>>- [image: @ugermann] ugermann 
>>- [image: @pjwilliams] pjwilliams 
>>- [image: @jgwinnup] jgwinnup 
>>- [image: @mhuck] mhuck 
>>- [image: @tofula] tofula 
>>- [image: @a455bcd9] a455bcd9 
>>
>>
>> And these for the detokenizer:
>>
>> -
>> [image: @phikoehn] phikoehn 
>> - [image: @flammie] flammie 
>> - [image: @hieuhoang] hieuhoang 
>> - [image: @pjwilliams] pjwilliams 
>> - [image: @bhaddow] bhaddow 
>> - [image: @alvations] alvations 
>>
>> Not sure if everyone agrees though.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Liling
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 12:39 AM, Matt Post  wrote:
>>
>>> Liling—Would it work to get the permission of just those people who are
>>> in the commit log of the specific scripts you want to port?
>>>
>>> matt (from my phone)
>>>
>>> Le 10 avr. 2018 à 18:19, liling tan  a écrit :
>>>
>>> Got it.
>>>
>>> So I think we'll just remove the MosesTokenizer and MosesDetokenizer
>>> function from NLTK and maybe create a PR to put it in
>>> mosesdecoder/scripts/tokenizer
>>>
>>> Thank you for the clarification!
>>> Liling
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 12:17 AM, Hieu Hoang 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Still the same problem - everyone owns Moses so you need everyone's
 permission, not just mine. So no

 Hieu Hoang
 http://moses-smt.org/


 On 10 April 2018 at 17:13, liling tan  wrote:

> I understand.
>
> Could we have permission that it's okay to derive work from Moses with
> respect to the (de-)tokenizer and possibly other scripts under an
> MIT/Apache tool?
>
> Legally it's a restriction but I think for what's it worth, having
> mutual agreement between the OSS is sufficient to still keep any port of
> LGPL work until someone starts to enforce legal actions and I think it's
> safe to back off to taking down these functionalities in the Apache/MIT
> code.
>
> Regards,
> Liling
>
> On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 12:09 AM, Hieu Hoang 
> wrote:
>
>> we can't change the license, or dual license it, without the
>> agreement of everyone who's contributed to Moses. Too much work
>>
>> Hieu Hoang
>> http://moses-smt.org/
>>
>>
>> On 10 April 2018 at 15:47, liling tan  wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Moses Dev,
>>>
>>> NLTK has a Python port of the word tokenizer in Moses. The tokenizer
>>> works well in Python and create a good synergy to bridge Python users to
>>> the code that Moses developers have spent years to hone.
>>>
>>> But it seemed to have hit a wall with some licensing issues.
>>> https://github.com/nltk/nltk/issues/2000
>>>
>>> General port of LGPL code is considered derivative and is
>>> incompatible with Apache or MIT license. I understand that LGPL keeps
>>> derivative from being proprietary but it's a little less permissive than
>>> non-copyleft license like Apache and MIT licenses.
>>>
>>> Note that this licensing issue might also affect Marian which is MIT
>>> license and also incompatible with LGPL so although technically users 
>>> can
>>> chain the code from different libraries, but Marian couldn't have any
>>> dependencies on the Moses components. (But we know do know that none of 
>>> our
>>> models built with Marian would work without the Moses tokenizer which 
>>> is in

Re: [Moses-support] Dual Licensing or relicensing Moses

[liling tan]

Dear Moses Devs and Community,

Sorry for the delayed response.

We've repackaged the MosesTokenizer Python code as a library and made it
pip-able.
https://github.com/alvations/sacremoses

I hope that's okay with the Moses community and the license compliance is
good with this now.

Regards,
Liling



On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 1:41 AM, Matt Post  wrote:

> Seems worth a shot. I suggest contacting each of them with individual
> emails until (and if) you get a “no”.
>
> matt (from my phone)
>
> Le 10 avr. 2018 à 19:26, liling tan  a écrit :
>
> @Matt I'm not sure whether that'll work.
>
>
> For tokenizer, that'll include:
>
>
>- [image: @phikoehn] phikoehn 
>- [image: @hieuhoang] hieuhoang 
>- [image: @bhaddow] bhaddow 
>- [image: @jimregan] jimregan 
>- [image: @kpu] kpu 
>- [image: @ugermann] ugermann 
>- [image: @pjwilliams] pjwilliams 
>- [image: @jgwinnup] jgwinnup 
>- [image: @mhuck] mhuck 
>- [image: @tofula] tofula 
>- [image: @a455bcd9] a455bcd9 
>
>
> And these for the detokenizer:
>
> -
> [image: @phikoehn] phikoehn 
> - [image: @flammie] flammie 
> - [image: @hieuhoang] hieuhoang 
> - [image: @pjwilliams] pjwilliams 
> - [image: @bhaddow] bhaddow 
> - [image: @alvations] alvations 
>
> Not sure if everyone agrees though.
>
> Regards,
> Liling
>
> On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 12:39 AM, Matt Post  wrote:
>
>> Liling—Would it work to get the permission of just those people who are
>> in the commit log of the specific scripts you want to port?
>>
>> matt (from my phone)
>>
>> Le 10 avr. 2018 à 18:19, liling tan  a écrit :
>>
>> Got it.
>>
>> So I think we'll just remove the MosesTokenizer and MosesDetokenizer
>> function from NLTK and maybe create a PR to put it in
>> mosesdecoder/scripts/tokenizer
>>
>> Thank you for the clarification!
>> Liling
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 12:17 AM, Hieu Hoang  wrote:
>>
>>> Still the same problem - everyone owns Moses so you need everyone's
>>> permission, not just mine. So no
>>>
>>> Hieu Hoang
>>> http://moses-smt.org/
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10 April 2018 at 17:13, liling tan  wrote:
>>>
 I understand.

 Could we have permission that it's okay to derive work from Moses with
 respect to the (de-)tokenizer and possibly other scripts under an
 MIT/Apache tool?

 Legally it's a restriction but I think for what's it worth, having
 mutual agreement between the OSS is sufficient to still keep any port of
 LGPL work until someone starts to enforce legal actions and I think it's
 safe to back off to taking down these functionalities in the Apache/MIT
 code.

 Regards,
 Liling

 On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 12:09 AM, Hieu Hoang 
 wrote:

> we can't change the license, or dual license it, without the agreement
> of everyone who's contributed to Moses. Too much work
>
> Hieu Hoang
> http://moses-smt.org/
>
>
> On 10 April 2018 at 15:47, liling tan  wrote:
>
>> Dear Moses Dev,
>>
>> NLTK has a Python port of the word tokenizer in Moses. The tokenizer
>> works well in Python and create a good synergy to bridge Python users to
>> the code that Moses developers have spent years to hone.
>>
>> But it seemed to have hit a wall with some licensing issues.
>> https://github.com/nltk/nltk/issues/2000
>>
>> General port of LGPL code is considered derivative and is
>> incompatible with Apache or MIT license. I understand that LGPL keeps
>> derivative from being proprietary but it's a little less permissive than
>> non-copyleft license like Apache and MIT licenses.
>>
>> Note that this licensing issue might also affect Marian which is MIT
>> license and also incompatible with LGPL so although technically users can
>> chain the code from different libraries, but Marian couldn't have any
>> dependencies on the Moses components. (But we know do know that none of 
>> our
>> models built with Marian would work without the Moses tokenizer which is 
>> in
>> LGPL).
>>
>> Would there be a possibility to dual license the Moses repository
>> with LGPL and Apache/BSD/MIT license. I'm not sure whether it's allowed 
>> to
>> have dual licenses with LGPL and Apache/BSD/MIT license though. Might 
>> have
>> to check with some proper legal personnel though.
>>
>> If dual license is not possible would it be possible relicense the
>> code under BSD/Apache/MIT license? T

Re: [Moses-support] Dual Licensing or relicensing Moses

[Matt Post]

Seems worth a shot. I suggest contacting each of them with individual emails 
until (and if) you get a “no”. 

matt (from my phone)

> Le 10 avr. 2018 à 19:26, liling tan  a écrit :
> 
> @Matt I'm not sure whether that'll work.
> 
> 
> For tokenizer, that'll include:
>  
>  phikoehn
>  hieuhoang
>  bhaddow
>  jimregan
>  kpu
>  ugermann
>  pjwilliams
>  jgwinnup
>  mhuck
>  tofula
>  a455bcd9
> 
> And these for the detokenizer:
> 
> 
>  phikoehn
>  flammie
>  hieuhoang
>  pjwilliams
>  bhaddow
>  alvations
> 
> 
> Not sure if everyone agrees though.
> 
> Regards,
> Liling
> 
>> On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 12:39 AM, Matt Post  wrote:
>> Liling—Would it work to get the permission of just those people who are in 
>> the commit log of the specific scripts you want to port?
>> 
>> matt (from my phone)
>> 
>>> Le 10 avr. 2018 à 18:19, liling tan  a écrit :
>>> 
>>> Got it. 
>>> 
>>> So I think we'll just remove the MosesTokenizer and MosesDetokenizer 
>>> function from NLTK and maybe create a PR to put it in 
>>> mosesdecoder/scripts/tokenizer 
>>> 
>>> Thank you for the clarification!
>>> Liling
>>> 
 On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 12:17 AM, Hieu Hoang  wrote:
 Still the same problem - everyone owns Moses so you need everyone's 
 permission, not just mine. So no
 
 Hieu Hoang
 http://moses-smt.org/
 
 
> On 10 April 2018 at 17:13, liling tan  wrote:
> I understand. 
> 
> Could we have permission that it's okay to derive work from Moses with 
> respect to the (de-)tokenizer and possibly other scripts under an 
> MIT/Apache tool? 
> 
> Legally it's a restriction but I think for what's it worth, having mutual 
> agreement between the OSS is sufficient to still keep any port of LGPL 
> work until someone starts to enforce legal actions and I think it's safe 
> to back off to taking down these functionalities in the Apache/MIT code. 
> 
> Regards,
> Liling
> 
>> On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 12:09 AM, Hieu Hoang  wrote:
>> we can't change the license, or dual license it, without the agreement 
>> of everyone who's contributed to Moses. Too much work 
>> 
>> Hieu Hoang
>> http://moses-smt.org/
>> 
>> 
>>> On 10 April 2018 at 15:47, liling tan  wrote:
>>> Dear Moses Dev,
>>> 
>>> NLTK has a Python port of the word tokenizer in Moses. The tokenizer 
>>> works well in Python and create a good synergy to bridge Python users 
>>> to the code that Moses developers have spent years to hone. 
>>> 
>>> But it seemed to have hit a wall with some licensing issues. 
>>> https://github.com/nltk/nltk/issues/2000 
>>> 
>>> General port of LGPL code is considered derivative and is incompatible 
>>> with Apache or MIT license. I understand that LGPL keeps derivative 
>>> from being proprietary but it's a little less permissive than 
>>> non-copyleft license like Apache and MIT licenses. 
>>> 
>>> Note that this licensing issue might also affect Marian which is MIT 
>>> license and also incompatible with LGPL so although technically users 
>>> can chain the code from different libraries, but Marian couldn't have 
>>> any dependencies on the Moses components. (But we know do know that 
>>> none of our models built with Marian would work without the Moses 
>>> tokenizer which is in LGPL). 
>>> 
>>> Would there be a possibility to dual license the Moses repository with 
>>> LGPL and Apache/BSD/MIT license. I'm not sure whether it's allowed to 
>>> have dual licenses with LGPL and Apache/BSD/MIT license though. Might 
>>> have to check with some proper legal personnel though.
>>> 
>>> If dual license is not possible would it be possible relicense the code 
>>> under BSD/Apache/MIT license? That way it's more permissive for 
>>> derivatiive work?
>>> 
>>> I think the last scenario is for NLTK to drop the Python port of Moses 
>>> code entirely from Apache license repository but I think that'll remove 
>>> the synergy between various OSS. 
>>> 
>>> Hope to hear from Moses devs soon!
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> Liling
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> Moses-support mailing list
>>> Moses-support@mit.edu
>>> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/moses-support
>>> 
>> 
> 
 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> Moses-support mailing list
>>> Moses-support@mit.edu
>>> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/moses-support
> 
___
Moses-support mailing list
Moses-support@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/moses-support

Re: [Moses-support] Dual Licensing or relicensing Moses

[liling tan]

@Matt I'm not sure whether that'll work.


For tokenizer, that'll include:


   - [image: @phikoehn] phikoehn 
   - [image: @hieuhoang] hieuhoang 
   - [image: @bhaddow] bhaddow 
   - [image: @jimregan] jimregan 
   - [image: @kpu] kpu 
   - [image: @ugermann] ugermann 
   - [image: @pjwilliams] pjwilliams 
   - [image: @jgwinnup] jgwinnup 
   - [image: @mhuck] mhuck 
   - [image: @tofula] tofula 
   - [image: @a455bcd9] a455bcd9 


And these for the detokenizer:

-
[image: @phikoehn] phikoehn 
- [image: @flammie] flammie 
- [image: @hieuhoang] hieuhoang 
- [image: @pjwilliams] pjwilliams 
- [image: @bhaddow] bhaddow 
- [image: @alvations] alvations 

Not sure if everyone agrees though.

Regards,
Liling

On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 12:39 AM, Matt Post  wrote:

> Liling—Would it work to get the permission of just those people who are in
> the commit log of the specific scripts you want to port?
>
> matt (from my phone)
>
> Le 10 avr. 2018 à 18:19, liling tan  a écrit :
>
> Got it.
>
> So I think we'll just remove the MosesTokenizer and MosesDetokenizer
> function from NLTK and maybe create a PR to put it in mosesdecoder/scripts/
> tokenizer
>
> Thank you for the clarification!
> Liling
>
> On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 12:17 AM, Hieu Hoang  wrote:
>
>> Still the same problem - everyone owns Moses so you need everyone's
>> permission, not just mine. So no
>>
>> Hieu Hoang
>> http://moses-smt.org/
>>
>>
>> On 10 April 2018 at 17:13, liling tan  wrote:
>>
>>> I understand.
>>>
>>> Could we have permission that it's okay to derive work from Moses with
>>> respect to the (de-)tokenizer and possibly other scripts under an
>>> MIT/Apache tool?
>>>
>>> Legally it's a restriction but I think for what's it worth, having
>>> mutual agreement between the OSS is sufficient to still keep any port of
>>> LGPL work until someone starts to enforce legal actions and I think it's
>>> safe to back off to taking down these functionalities in the Apache/MIT
>>> code.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Liling
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 12:09 AM, Hieu Hoang 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 we can't change the license, or dual license it, without the agreement
 of everyone who's contributed to Moses. Too much work

 Hieu Hoang
 http://moses-smt.org/


 On 10 April 2018 at 15:47, liling tan  wrote:

> Dear Moses Dev,
>
> NLTK has a Python port of the word tokenizer in Moses. The tokenizer
> works well in Python and create a good synergy to bridge Python users to
> the code that Moses developers have spent years to hone.
>
> But it seemed to have hit a wall with some licensing issues.
> https://github.com/nltk/nltk/issues/2000
>
> General port of LGPL code is considered derivative and is incompatible
> with Apache or MIT license. I understand that LGPL keeps derivative from
> being proprietary but it's a little less permissive than non-copyleft
> license like Apache and MIT licenses.
>
> Note that this licensing issue might also affect Marian which is MIT
> license and also incompatible with LGPL so although technically users can
> chain the code from different libraries, but Marian couldn't have any
> dependencies on the Moses components. (But we know do know that none of 
> our
> models built with Marian would work without the Moses tokenizer which is 
> in
> LGPL).
>
> Would there be a possibility to dual license the Moses repository with
> LGPL and Apache/BSD/MIT license. I'm not sure whether it's allowed to have
> dual licenses with LGPL and Apache/BSD/MIT license though. Might have to
> check with some proper legal personnel though.
>
> If dual license is not possible would it be possible relicense the
> code under BSD/Apache/MIT license? That way it's more permissive for
> derivatiive work?
>
> I think the last scenario is for NLTK to drop the Python port of Moses
> code entirely from Apache license repository but I think that'll remove 
> the
> synergy between various OSS.
>
> Hope to hear from Moses devs soon!
>
> Regards,
> Liling
>
>
>
> ___
> Moses-support mailing list
> Moses-support@mit.edu
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/moses-support
>
>

>>>
>>
> ___
> Moses-support mailing list
> Moses-support@mit.edu
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinf

Re: [Moses-support] Dual Licensing or relicensing Moses

[Kenneth Heafield]

Looks like 19 people when the nonbreaking_prefixes is included and
multiple e-mail addresses for the same person are collapsed.

git log tokenizer.perl ../share/nonbreaking_prefixes/* |grep Author |sort -u

Some of whom have invalid e-mail addresses, but can probably be tracked
down.

Kenneth

On 04/10/2018 05:39 PM, Matt Post wrote:
> Liling—Would it work to get the permission of just those people who are
> in the commit log of the specific scripts you want to port?
> 
> matt (from my phone)
> 
> Le 10 avr. 2018 à 18:19, liling tan  > a écrit :
> 
>> Got it. 
>>
>> So I think we'll just remove the MosesTokenizer and MosesDetokenizer
>> function from NLTK and maybe create a PR to put it in
>> mosesdecoder/scripts/tokenizer 
>>
>> Thank you for the clarification!
>> Liling
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 12:17 AM, Hieu Hoang > > wrote:
>>
>> Still the same problem - everyone owns Moses so you need
>> everyone's permission, not just mine. So no
>>
>> Hieu Hoang
>> http://moses-smt.org/
>>
>>
>> On 10 April 2018 at 17:13, liling tan > > wrote:
>>
>> I understand. 
>>
>> Could we have permission that it's okay to derive work from
>> Moses with respect to the (de-)tokenizer and possibly other
>> scripts under an MIT/Apache tool? 
>>
>> Legally it's a restriction but I think for what's it worth,
>> having mutual agreement between the OSS is sufficient to still
>> keep any port of LGPL work until someone starts to enforce
>> legal actions and I think it's safe to back off to taking down
>> these functionalities in the Apache/MIT code. 
>>
>> Regards,
>> Liling
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 12:09 AM, Hieu Hoang
>> mailto:hieuho...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> we can't change the license, or dual license it, without
>> the agreement of everyone who's contributed to Moses. Too
>> much work
>>
>> Hieu Hoang
>> http://moses-smt.org/
>>
>>
>> On 10 April 2018 at 15:47, liling tan > > wrote:
>>
>> Dear Moses Dev,
>>
>> NLTK has a Python port of the word tokenizer in Moses.
>> The tokenizer works well in Python and create a good
>> synergy to bridge Python users to the code that Moses
>> developers have spent years to hone. 
>>
>> But it seemed to have hit a wall with some licensing
>> issues. https://github.com/nltk/nltk/issues/2000
>>  
>>
>> General port of LGPL code is considered derivative and
>> is incompatible with Apache or MIT license. I
>> understand that LGPL keeps derivative from being
>> proprietary but it's a little less permissive than
>> non-copyleft license like Apache and MIT licenses. 
>>
>> Note that this licensing issue might also affect
>> Marian which is MIT license and also incompatible with
>> LGPL so although technically users can chain the code
>> from different libraries, but Marian couldn't have any
>> dependencies on the Moses components. (But we know do
>> know that none of our models built with Marian would
>> work without the Moses tokenizer which is in LGPL). 
>>
>> Would there be a possibility to dual license the Moses
>> repository with LGPL and Apache/BSD/MIT license. I'm
>> not sure whether it's allowed to have dual licenses
>> with LGPL and Apache/BSD/MIT license though. Might
>> have to check with some proper legal personnel though.
>>
>> If dual license is not possible would it be possible
>> relicense the code under BSD/Apache/MIT license? That
>> way it's more permissive for derivatiive work?
>>
>> I think the last scenario is for NLTK to drop the
>> Python port of Moses code entirely from Apache license
>> repository but I think that'll remove the synergy
>> between various OSS. 
>>
>> Hope to hear from Moses devs soon!
>>
>> Regards,
>> Liling
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Moses-support mailing list
>> Moses-support@mit.edu 
>> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/moses-support
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Moses-support mailing list
>

Re: [Moses-support] Dual Licensing or relicensing Moses

[Matt Post]

Liling—Would it work to get the permission of just those people who are in the 
commit log of the specific scripts you want to port?

matt (from my phone)

> Le 10 avr. 2018 à 18:19, liling tan  a écrit :
> 
> Got it. 
> 
> So I think we'll just remove the MosesTokenizer and MosesDetokenizer function 
> from NLTK and maybe create a PR to put it in mosesdecoder/scripts/tokenizer 
> 
> Thank you for the clarification!
> Liling
> 
>> On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 12:17 AM, Hieu Hoang  wrote:
>> Still the same problem - everyone owns Moses so you need everyone's 
>> permission, not just mine. So no
>> 
>> Hieu Hoang
>> http://moses-smt.org/
>> 
>> 
>>> On 10 April 2018 at 17:13, liling tan  wrote:
>>> I understand. 
>>> 
>>> Could we have permission that it's okay to derive work from Moses with 
>>> respect to the (de-)tokenizer and possibly other scripts under an 
>>> MIT/Apache tool? 
>>> 
>>> Legally it's a restriction but I think for what's it worth, having mutual 
>>> agreement between the OSS is sufficient to still keep any port of LGPL work 
>>> until someone starts to enforce legal actions and I think it's safe to back 
>>> off to taking down these functionalities in the Apache/MIT code. 
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> Liling
>>> 
 On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 12:09 AM, Hieu Hoang  wrote:
 we can't change the license, or dual license it, without the agreement of 
 everyone who's contributed to Moses. Too much work 
 
 Hieu Hoang
 http://moses-smt.org/
 
 
> On 10 April 2018 at 15:47, liling tan  wrote:
> Dear Moses Dev,
> 
> NLTK has a Python port of the word tokenizer in Moses. The tokenizer 
> works well in Python and create a good synergy to bridge Python users to 
> the code that Moses developers have spent years to hone. 
> 
> But it seemed to have hit a wall with some licensing issues. 
> https://github.com/nltk/nltk/issues/2000 
> 
> General port of LGPL code is considered derivative and is incompatible 
> with Apache or MIT license. I understand that LGPL keeps derivative from 
> being proprietary but it's a little less permissive than non-copyleft 
> license like Apache and MIT licenses. 
> 
> Note that this licensing issue might also affect Marian which is MIT 
> license and also incompatible with LGPL so although technically users can 
> chain the code from different libraries, but Marian couldn't have any 
> dependencies on the Moses components. (But we know do know that none of 
> our models built with Marian would work without the Moses tokenizer which 
> is in LGPL). 
> 
> Would there be a possibility to dual license the Moses repository with 
> LGPL and Apache/BSD/MIT license. I'm not sure whether it's allowed to 
> have dual licenses with LGPL and Apache/BSD/MIT license though. Might 
> have to check with some proper legal personnel though.
> 
> If dual license is not possible would it be possible relicense the code 
> under BSD/Apache/MIT license? That way it's more permissive for 
> derivatiive work?
> 
> I think the last scenario is for NLTK to drop the Python port of Moses 
> code entirely from Apache license repository but I think that'll remove 
> the synergy between various OSS. 
> 
> Hope to hear from Moses devs soon!
> 
> Regards,
> Liling
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> Moses-support mailing list
> Moses-support@mit.edu
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/moses-support
> 
 
>>> 
>> 
> 
> ___
> Moses-support mailing list
> Moses-support@mit.edu
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/moses-support
___
Moses-support mailing list
Moses-support@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/moses-support

Re: [Moses-support] Dual Licensing or relicensing Moses

[liling tan]

Got it.

So I think we'll just remove the MosesTokenizer and MosesDetokenizer
function from NLTK and maybe create a PR to put it in
mosesdecoder/scripts/tokenizer

Thank you for the clarification!
Liling

On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 12:17 AM, Hieu Hoang  wrote:

> Still the same problem - everyone owns Moses so you need everyone's
> permission, not just mine. So no
>
> Hieu Hoang
> http://moses-smt.org/
>
>
> On 10 April 2018 at 17:13, liling tan  wrote:
>
>> I understand.
>>
>> Could we have permission that it's okay to derive work from Moses with
>> respect to the (de-)tokenizer and possibly other scripts under an
>> MIT/Apache tool?
>>
>> Legally it's a restriction but I think for what's it worth, having mutual
>> agreement between the OSS is sufficient to still keep any port of LGPL work
>> until someone starts to enforce legal actions and I think it's safe to back
>> off to taking down these functionalities in the Apache/MIT code.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Liling
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 12:09 AM, Hieu Hoang  wrote:
>>
>>> we can't change the license, or dual license it, without the agreement
>>> of everyone who's contributed to Moses. Too much work
>>>
>>> Hieu Hoang
>>> http://moses-smt.org/
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10 April 2018 at 15:47, liling tan  wrote:
>>>
 Dear Moses Dev,

 NLTK has a Python port of the word tokenizer in Moses. The tokenizer
 works well in Python and create a good synergy to bridge Python users to
 the code that Moses developers have spent years to hone.

 But it seemed to have hit a wall with some licensing issues.
 https://github.com/nltk/nltk/issues/2000

 General port of LGPL code is considered derivative and is incompatible
 with Apache or MIT license. I understand that LGPL keeps derivative from
 being proprietary but it's a little less permissive than non-copyleft
 license like Apache and MIT licenses.

 Note that this licensing issue might also affect Marian which is MIT
 license and also incompatible with LGPL so although technically users can
 chain the code from different libraries, but Marian couldn't have any
 dependencies on the Moses components. (But we know do know that none of our
 models built with Marian would work without the Moses tokenizer which is in
 LGPL).

 Would there be a possibility to dual license the Moses repository with
 LGPL and Apache/BSD/MIT license. I'm not sure whether it's allowed to have
 dual licenses with LGPL and Apache/BSD/MIT license though. Might have to
 check with some proper legal personnel though.

 If dual license is not possible would it be possible relicense the code
 under BSD/Apache/MIT license? That way it's more permissive for derivatiive
 work?

 I think the last scenario is for NLTK to drop the Python port of Moses
 code entirely from Apache license repository but I think that'll remove the
 synergy between various OSS.

 Hope to hear from Moses devs soon!

 Regards,
 Liling



 ___
 Moses-support mailing list
 Moses-support@mit.edu
 http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/moses-support


>>>
>>
>
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Re: [Moses-support] Dual Licensing or relicensing Moses

[Hieu Hoang]

Still the same problem - everyone owns Moses so you need everyone's
permission, not just mine. So no

Hieu Hoang
http://moses-smt.org/


On 10 April 2018 at 17:13, liling tan  wrote:

> I understand.
>
> Could we have permission that it's okay to derive work from Moses with
> respect to the (de-)tokenizer and possibly other scripts under an
> MIT/Apache tool?
>
> Legally it's a restriction but I think for what's it worth, having mutual
> agreement between the OSS is sufficient to still keep any port of LGPL work
> until someone starts to enforce legal actions and I think it's safe to back
> off to taking down these functionalities in the Apache/MIT code.
>
> Regards,
> Liling
>
> On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 12:09 AM, Hieu Hoang  wrote:
>
>> we can't change the license, or dual license it, without the agreement of
>> everyone who's contributed to Moses. Too much work
>>
>> Hieu Hoang
>> http://moses-smt.org/
>>
>>
>> On 10 April 2018 at 15:47, liling tan  wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Moses Dev,
>>>
>>> NLTK has a Python port of the word tokenizer in Moses. The tokenizer
>>> works well in Python and create a good synergy to bridge Python users to
>>> the code that Moses developers have spent years to hone.
>>>
>>> But it seemed to have hit a wall with some licensing issues.
>>> https://github.com/nltk/nltk/issues/2000
>>>
>>> General port of LGPL code is considered derivative and is incompatible
>>> with Apache or MIT license. I understand that LGPL keeps derivative from
>>> being proprietary but it's a little less permissive than non-copyleft
>>> license like Apache and MIT licenses.
>>>
>>> Note that this licensing issue might also affect Marian which is MIT
>>> license and also incompatible with LGPL so although technically users can
>>> chain the code from different libraries, but Marian couldn't have any
>>> dependencies on the Moses components. (But we know do know that none of our
>>> models built with Marian would work without the Moses tokenizer which is in
>>> LGPL).
>>>
>>> Would there be a possibility to dual license the Moses repository with
>>> LGPL and Apache/BSD/MIT license. I'm not sure whether it's allowed to have
>>> dual licenses with LGPL and Apache/BSD/MIT license though. Might have to
>>> check with some proper legal personnel though.
>>>
>>> If dual license is not possible would it be possible relicense the code
>>> under BSD/Apache/MIT license? That way it's more permissive for derivatiive
>>> work?
>>>
>>> I think the last scenario is for NLTK to drop the Python port of Moses
>>> code entirely from Apache license repository but I think that'll remove the
>>> synergy between various OSS.
>>>
>>> Hope to hear from Moses devs soon!
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Liling
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Moses-support mailing list
>>> Moses-support@mit.edu
>>> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/moses-support
>>>
>>>
>>
>
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Re: [Moses-support] Dual Licensing or relicensing Moses

[liling tan]

I understand.

Could we have permission that it's okay to derive work from Moses with
respect to the (de-)tokenizer and possibly other scripts under an
MIT/Apache tool?

Legally it's a restriction but I think for what's it worth, having mutual
agreement between the OSS is sufficient to still keep any port of LGPL work
until someone starts to enforce legal actions and I think it's safe to back
off to taking down these functionalities in the Apache/MIT code.

Regards,
Liling

On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 12:09 AM, Hieu Hoang  wrote:

> we can't change the license, or dual license it, without the agreement of
> everyone who's contributed to Moses. Too much work
>
> Hieu Hoang
> http://moses-smt.org/
>
>
> On 10 April 2018 at 15:47, liling tan  wrote:
>
>> Dear Moses Dev,
>>
>> NLTK has a Python port of the word tokenizer in Moses. The tokenizer
>> works well in Python and create a good synergy to bridge Python users to
>> the code that Moses developers have spent years to hone.
>>
>> But it seemed to have hit a wall with some licensing issues.
>> https://github.com/nltk/nltk/issues/2000
>>
>> General port of LGPL code is considered derivative and is incompatible
>> with Apache or MIT license. I understand that LGPL keeps derivative from
>> being proprietary but it's a little less permissive than non-copyleft
>> license like Apache and MIT licenses.
>>
>> Note that this licensing issue might also affect Marian which is MIT
>> license and also incompatible with LGPL so although technically users can
>> chain the code from different libraries, but Marian couldn't have any
>> dependencies on the Moses components. (But we know do know that none of our
>> models built with Marian would work without the Moses tokenizer which is in
>> LGPL).
>>
>> Would there be a possibility to dual license the Moses repository with
>> LGPL and Apache/BSD/MIT license. I'm not sure whether it's allowed to have
>> dual licenses with LGPL and Apache/BSD/MIT license though. Might have to
>> check with some proper legal personnel though.
>>
>> If dual license is not possible would it be possible relicense the code
>> under BSD/Apache/MIT license? That way it's more permissive for derivatiive
>> work?
>>
>> I think the last scenario is for NLTK to drop the Python port of Moses
>> code entirely from Apache license repository but I think that'll remove the
>> synergy between various OSS.
>>
>> Hope to hear from Moses devs soon!
>>
>> Regards,
>> Liling
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Moses-support mailing list
>> Moses-support@mit.edu
>> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/moses-support
>>
>>
>
___
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Moses-support@mit.edu
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Re: [Moses-support] Dual Licensing or relicensing Moses

[Hieu Hoang]

we can't change the license, or dual license it, without the agreement of
everyone who's contributed to Moses. Too much work

Hieu Hoang
http://moses-smt.org/


On 10 April 2018 at 15:47, liling tan  wrote:

> Dear Moses Dev,
>
> NLTK has a Python port of the word tokenizer in Moses. The tokenizer works
> well in Python and create a good synergy to bridge Python users to the code
> that Moses developers have spent years to hone.
>
> But it seemed to have hit a wall with some licensing issues.
> https://github.com/nltk/nltk/issues/2000
>
> General port of LGPL code is considered derivative and is incompatible
> with Apache or MIT license. I understand that LGPL keeps derivative from
> being proprietary but it's a little less permissive than non-copyleft
> license like Apache and MIT licenses.
>
> Note that this licensing issue might also affect Marian which is MIT
> license and also incompatible with LGPL so although technically users can
> chain the code from different libraries, but Marian couldn't have any
> dependencies on the Moses components. (But we know do know that none of our
> models built with Marian would work without the Moses tokenizer which is in
> LGPL).
>
> Would there be a possibility to dual license the Moses repository with
> LGPL and Apache/BSD/MIT license. I'm not sure whether it's allowed to have
> dual licenses with LGPL and Apache/BSD/MIT license though. Might have to
> check with some proper legal personnel though.
>
> If dual license is not possible would it be possible relicense the code
> under BSD/Apache/MIT license? That way it's more permissive for derivatiive
> work?
>
> I think the last scenario is for NLTK to drop the Python port of Moses
> code entirely from Apache license repository but I think that'll remove the
> synergy between various OSS.
>
> Hope to hear from Moses devs soon!
>
> Regards,
> Liling
>
>
>
> ___
> Moses-support mailing list
> Moses-support@mit.edu
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/moses-support
>
>
___
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