Re: [Mpls] Property taxes for homestead property must INCREASE
Used car salesmen are preferable to developers. Imagine how much more just, pleasant, democratic, and affordable life in the cities would be without them! Without them manipulating and diverting council and park board members, misusing TIF and eminent domain and taxes. Without their glossy songs and dances, taking huge chunks of public meeting time to the exclusion of citizens, the better to fleece them. Prefabricated dog and pony shows to bamboozle the hicks. An invading army of pillagers, slashing and burning for undeserved big piles of cash, then running back to their pleasant safe homes far from their destructions. Leaving us exploited colonized natives to live with the lousy result. Give me a used car salesman any day. --David Shove Roseville I have seen them active in Roseville on the Twin Lakes development - you don't want them anywhere near YOUR city council! (Hide your silver and your daughters!) On Sat, 4 Dec 2004, WizardMarks wrote: Dorothy J. TItus wrote: A huge issue here are the low income folks who have finally managed to buy a house and are being driven out because their property taxes are so high. Minneapolis is driving residents out of the city. Who can afford this? Certainly not those on the low end of the scale. WM: Only the poor are being driven out of the city. The middle class have rediscovered us. We've been sitting in these big, old, high maintenance houses for long over 30 years because they were all we could afford. We got little or nothing in the way of respectful services (snow plowing, street sweeping, inspections, police services). The city used the same tax-and-assess-them-out strategy behind hidden beach on Cedar Lake. There were four or five little houses, probably build in the late 30s to late 40s as cabins, later insulated for year round, with a railroad line cutting them off from the rest of the area. Those folks lived back there on that tiny spit of land happily for dog years. Then the city started taxing them to squeeze every nickel they could out of every last square inch of lake front. Suddenly folks could no longer live in the houses they'd owned for a very long time. It would appear, from the city's point of view, that when land gets hot (means developers have their eyes on it) they help them out by initiating a citizen exchange project designed to be affordable to tons of people, particularly by raising the bar on what the definition of affordable is, but set high enough so that the current owners are forced out. That's how cities work, unfortunately. Those of us with the last, I'd say, fewer than a dozen houses on Lake St. between the river and the city line are experiencing the same kind of tax-'em-out. We're trying to hold out, on my block, to maintain it's mostly residential character. We have only one business on our block. My taxes, as the house on Lake St., went up 31% this year alone, and a house I paid less than $50,000 for seven years ago is now worth (according to the city) $179,000. Don't I wish! Of course, my wages have not kept up with that kind of inflation. I'm told by the county that I will be assessed $15,600 for repaving Lake St. The Library Referendum has yet to kick in full throttle, but that will add yet more to the tax bill. I will be forced out. I'll probably wind up gittin' me a double-wide and movin' up a holler. WizardMarks, Central Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Property taxes for homestead property
Greg Luce writes: More and more, Minneapolis is pushing the poor out, rather than lifting the poor up. Granted, getting folks out of poverty is heavy lifting, but perhaps that explains why it's easier to shift people out. It is, by far, the most discouraging thing I've seen since I've lived here, and it's not getting better. This is one of the most important questions facing Minneapolis and is one of those times I must agree with Mr. Luce. Politicians MUST come to grips with their priorities for spending. If not, Minneapolis will surely become even more of a city of haves and have-nots. There is a housing shortage, so the City (ten years too late) starts building apartment buildings. Politicians discover that this is lucrative, so the City continues to build only multiple unit apartments until it has created a vacancy rate in rental that approaches 10%. Never even considering that there might be other shortages and needs. Like elders, and housing for the singles homeless, and those needing affordable homeownership. The City has the Sears building and opportunities for outside development of the site. It chooses instead to sell the site for a song and start down a road that will cost more than it had unwisely pumped into the Target fiasco, (instead of allowing OPUS to develop that site). At the very same time, with the City having budget crunch that necessitates needed police officers to be cut from the payroll, the City Council and the Mayor begin to build a 120 million dollar downtown edifice library. Why in gods name didn't they combine the Sears site and the library needs and create the biggest city library on the planet for 1/4 the cost of either one otherwise? Oh that's right, it just would not have been as cool a monument to their egos. This is like being notified that you are seriously in debt and overdrawn at the bank, and then saying, Well it's a good time to make me feel better, so I think I will build a three season glass porch and deck on my house. My children will have to pay for it, if they want to keep the house, after I die, but I sure am going to look good to my neighbors, AND feel good. Their spending might make the present politicians fell good, but it is not so good for either the present Minneapolis Children or the future ones. We have limited resources, and they need to be spent wisely or there is not enough to do the things that really need doing. Of course the affluent communities dont lose out too much when taxes dollars are misspent and there are not enough resources, but the poor communities certainly do. The River, the Creek, Kenwood, and South West may not be affected too much by cutting police and fire, but you can bet Phillip, Jordan, and Hawthorne are! Each of the summer days when I drove downtown to City Hall, or to the Crown Roller Building, to work for or lobby for supporting affordable homeownership for the poor families of the City (with some at the City refusing to put one dime into such) I would go past the new Riverside condos that were each subsidized by hundreds of thousands of tax payer dollars and I would become morally outraged. Those were subsidized for the Haves so we could attract outside Middle Class back into the City. Didn't that pack of fools realize that any poor person in the Jordan or Phillips Neighborhoods that you give $200,000 to would automatically become MIDDLE CLASS? Heck, we didn't have to import any; we could have made some of our own poor into middle class for cheaper! The excuse of course is that these Middle-Class Condos will add tax dollars. Well I got news for the politicians. So do the taxes on poor peoples houses, and there could be more of them. Of course not with as much concentrated Cool. But then some of us seem to think a poor family in its own home, being able to afford the taxes to keep it, is also really COOL. The secret to bringing people out of poverty is no secret, (hell, the Republicans even give lip service to it). The answer is homeownership! Poor people can acquire wealth and secure their futures just like the middle class do. Through homeownership! We all know that poor people in inner-cities pay more for their groceries, gas, and every other commodity than do more affluent people in the suburbs. The same thing is true for housing! Poor people often pay as much each month to rent a three-bedroom apartment in Minneapolis as do the more affluent middle class homeowner does to OWN and even better house in the suburbs. It is not secret that the majority of wealth building, and their economic security for the middle class are tied up in the equity they individually own in their house. Why is it that our supposedly liberal politicians do not seem to grasp that the same should be true for poor people? A good question for the readers, How many mayors and City Council Members have been renters while in office in the last twenty years? I
Re: [Mpls] Property taxes for homestead property must INCREASE
David wrote: Used car salesmen are preferable to developers. Dori: At least with car salesmen, you expect them to create an aura that will sell you the car and it becomes a game to the winner goes the spoils. With politics of late...some elected have become such controlling factors, the populace is treated as subservient menials with no voice much less in the game for spoils. City government is too big, too controlled by special interest, it does have a weak Mayoralty...which seems to be changing ...yet to be decided in what direction, and we are over taxed big time for what we get in core services...So where is the money going? I think David did a great job describing the mess... Imagine how much more just, pleasant, democratic, and affordable life in the cities would be without them! Without them manipulating and diverting council and park board members, misusing TIF and eminent domain and taxes. Without their glossy songs and dances, taking huge chunks of public meeting time to the exclusion of citizens, the better to fleece them. Prefabricated dog and pony shows to bamboozle the hicks. An invading army of pillagers, slashing and burning for undeserved big piles of cash, then running back to their pleasant safe homes (may I add ...in the suburbs/lake area to the west) far from their destructionsof high density! Personally, I am glad to see this discussion along with the Strib's. First step in solving a problem is to acknowledge it. You can have all the *Community Engagement * parties in the world with the idea of *telling the community what is going on.*...perhaps one should just start to *listen* and read some of these posts and work on the real issues at hand for the common taxpayer, (without hiring another team of consultants)..such as being taxed out of their home that they have worked for all their life or having the MFD charge for services that are being paid for through taxes already, low wages in service industry without protection and benefits, and getting education/jobs to those who need it. These are the issues of today... not building another condo for someone who does not live here yet... but is sure to move here in the next twenty years! There lies the gold... Dorie Rae Gallagher Nokomis Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Is it fraud or a boo boo? You decide.
I hope that there are a few people left in Minneapolis who haven't abandoned their principles to keep their property taxes low. Here's today's example: Former Council Members Minn and Cherryhomes prance into the MCDA with documents showing that their Stone Arch project is worth $33.5 million. Of course, they were after total public financing, which they got, including $3.5 million of TIF money from Minneapolis. Now that the project has been built, it's only worth $19 million - for property tax purposes. Anyone else see a problem here? .and for newcomers to the List, a few personal notes: I spent nine years in a lawsuit against the City/MCDA, so I've seen Minneapolis corruption up close and personal. Different Judges described the City's conduct as egregious and stated that the City operated in bad faith. For those who don't have dictionaries handy, this means that the City's behavior was described as outrageously bad, reprehensible, gross injustice, rank treachery, intentionally deceptive, etc. I am not a political hack masquerading as a journalist. I am not a lobbyist. I am not on the government payroll. I am not on a government funded non-profit payroll. I never have and never will run for elected office. I am just a plain old pink collar, taxpaying citizen; crusading for honesty and full disclosure in local government. All of my Minneapolis property will be sold within the next few months. Until then, I will try to inform and entertain readers via this List; assuming this is really supposed to be a marketplace for ALL ideas and opinions. Stereo liberals is NOT a two-party system. I prefer surround sound. Vicky Heller North Oaks and Cedar-Riverside REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Leaving Minneapolis
I have said it for some time now--To live in Minneapolis you are either going to have to be very rich or very poor. Unfortunately, I am neither. So I am finally leaving. Property taxes are high and getting higher. Water service, car insurance, home repairs, etc are all more expensive in Minneapolis. My income has never kept pace and I am just plain tired of the struggle to get by. Even if I toughed it out for a few more years, there is no way that I could realistically afford to retire here. So---I recently purchased a house in Wyoming and my house here will be going on the market shortly. The place in Wyoming is a large, three bedroom, two bathroom house, built in 1978, on more than two acres of land, with spectacular views (down a rimrock canyon) and easy access. It is located at the south end of the Black Hills. The price of my dream house--$25,000. Incredibly, the weather there is more temperate than here and the cost of living is extremely low. (This in a state with no personal or corporate income tax and a huge surplus.) Wyoming is not for everyone but I am ecstatic to be moving there. The house is already setup with high speed internet access so I may participate on the list as an ex-patriate Minneapolitan (like Pam Taylor in Tampa). Happy Trails! Catherine Leighton Not long now in Longfellow/Short termer at work in North East Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing. -- Helen Keller REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Pinched in the Zipper on Hennepin
yYour logic is impecable. Very good explanation. But this is Minnesota. I think that self-rightousness is scored on the drivers test as a requirement though. David Wilson Loring Park On Sat, 4 Dec 2004, Dan Prozinski wrote: The logic of the zipper merge: - when all available lanes are used, the traffic does not back up as far to the rear - travel is safer because there is not the great speed variation between lanes - the whole process is ultimately less confusing - there is no driver frustration with late lane mergers (cheaters) - at the final stage each driver takes turns in the final merging, creating the zipper merge This is about cooperation among drivers and I think people will catch on when they see it in action. In the end it is better for everyone. As this relates to the example at Hennepin Avenue, the offended driver should join in. It's been used like this for years and more cars are allowed through the intersection with each light cycle... win/win. Finally, if you see a confused driver, don't be a crank, let them in. So many people get uptight when they feel their rules have been crossed that they don't see a better way is right in front of them. Dan Prozinski Cedar-Riverside __ [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I live in the area, and I am definitely not fine with this. The far right lane seem to implicitly be for traffic turning onto Franklin only. There are no painted lane markings to indicate that this lane continues forward on Hennepin. I am most chagrined with I drive up Hennepin and stay in the right through lane to get onto 94 and there are people coming through the Franklin intersection to the right of me. When people don't use their signals (and people don't), it is impossible to tell what they are going to do, either drive straight or turn right. __ The original Zipper Merge post by Rick Mons: Use the zipper merge when traffic comes down from two (or three) lanes to one (or two) lanes. What that means is that drivers use all the lanes until just before the lanes shrink ... and then take turns at that merging point. That's different than the Minnesota Way which is for some drivers to enter (or stay in) the surviving lane way before the merging point and thus inciting Road Rage as other drivers drive in the less-used lane to the merging point. __ REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Is it fraud or a boo boo? You decide.
Vicky writes: I hope that there are a few people left in Minneapolis who haven't abandoned their principles to keep their property taxes low. Former Council Members Minn and Cherryhomes prance into the MCDA with documents showing that their Stone Arch project is worth $33.5 million. Of course, they were after total public financing, which they got, including $3.5 million of TIF money from Minneapolis. Now that the project has been built, it's only worth $19 million - for property tax purposes. Anyone else see a problem here? Dorie writes: Yes, I do and I did at the time they pranced into the City Council. It is business as usual in Minneapolis. Why this continues is beyond comprehension. Jim mentioned Crown Mill...don't need to look across the street! We would have lower property taxes if we were not giving money away faster than we make to developers. dorie rae gallagher nokomis .org/mpls REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Car Sharing for the Twin Cities getting closer..
On 12/4/04 1:20 AM, Dyna [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ah, the Taxpayer League argument against transit. And who's going to pay for the repair costs of the sedans, fuel costs and insurance? Buying a car is only one reason the poor don't have cars; operating costs are far bigger over time. And my guess is the cost of operation for those poor folks will be higher than the use-based fees of hOurCar which cover fuel and insurance. Again, poor analogy and HourCar isn't transit. In low mileage operation like this gas use isn't much of a factor. As far as repairs, a 3 year old ex-fleet car with less than 50,000 miles on it won't need major repairs for years. In fact, these cars from government fleets are probably the best deal you can get in a car because the market is so glutted with them. Dyna's actually right that an ex-government fleet car is probably one of the better deals you can get in a car. I would encourage her to do what the hOurCar organizers did and come up with a business plan to make her vision of a bio-based car-sharing program happen instead of spending all her time pooh-poohing the efforts of others. There's another reason this argument is fallacious: why can't we do both (or all three)? Certainly, there are bigger wastes of money (if you believe hOurCar is that) to fund your biodiesel. Biodiesel is an alternative fuel while the hybrid is a very expensive bandaid to cover the inefficencies of the spark ignition engine. Theoreticly you could build a diesel cycle hybrid car running on biodiesel fuel- but the diesel engine is so stingy with fuel at idle that it's not worth the bother except for maybe switching locomotives. Biodiesel is a much more cost efficent technology because you don't need to buy a new car to take advantage of it. Thusly biodiesel needs little or no public subsidy in comparison to buying Prius at $30,000 apiece. Biodiesel needs little or no public subsidy compared to a Prius? Ha. Tell that the the folks in Congress that just passed a massive one for biodiesel producers. Then tell me how much of a subsidy Toyota gets for building the Prius. None. You could start organizing to get such a program but beware of being ridiculed if you start too small! Hundreds of Minneapolis city trucks are already running on biodiesel blends at virtually no additional cost to the taxpayers. Same for Metro Transit buses and Hennepin County's trucks. In fact, even at only 2% blends Biodiesel pays for itself by better lubricating the expensive injection pumps and injectors on modern diesels. My VW TDI has over a thousand dollars worth of fuel injection hardware under the hood, so a couple cents a gallon extra is a small price to pay to protect that expensive hardware. Um, the program is the car-sharing program. You could do it with any number of vehicle types, but if you're going to compare costs, then you have to compare apples to apples. So here's how you do that. You go to the St. Paul NEC, get a copy of the budget for the hOurCar program, and then you tell us how you could run a car-sharing program that serves as many or more people at a lower cost. Then you'd actually be making a worthwhile point. A number of fallacious assumptions. First, folks won't rent hOurCars for a day (otherwise, they'd be called dAyCars). They will rent them for an hour or two or three to make trips not covered by public transit, or routes that would be godawful expensive by taxi (wonder what their day rates are?). It costs me about $50 a month to license and insure my 7 year old Ranger pickup. Even if HourCar were available in my 'hood it would cost me more if I used it only 2 hours a week. Again, HourCar is not a cost effective way to clean the air or provide mobility. Gee, I hope you'll share with us who you get your auto insurance from because that's a heck of a lot less than anyone I know spends on coverage. How much does it cost to insure your VW TDI? And as David pointed out above, how much is spent on maintenance, storage, etc? Now ask those same questions of someone who isn't a gearhead and so isn't able to do all maintenance work themselves and who lives in a higher-density area where parking is more scarce and thus, costlier. Now consider that another feature of hOurCar is that businesses can sign up for this program rather than have to maintain their own stand-alone fleets and all of the various costs associated with them. Also, by putting the hubs in densely populated Uptown and Loring, the assumption is people will be able to walk to the hub from their homes/apartments, pick up the car, use it, drop it off, walk home. And I suspect Hawthorne isn't even on the bottom of the list of neighborhoods to receive HourCars. Hawthorne is not very densely populated compared to Uptown or Loring, is it, Dyna? If hOUrCar were proposing to place hubs in my neighborhood, which is a lot closer in density to yours, then your insinuations might actually
[Mpls] Property taxes and Mpls dysfunctional government.
Greg Luce wrote: More and more, Minneapolis is pushing the poor out, rather than lifting the poor up. Me: Amen Greg. Amen. Over the past few years, we have heard our leaders talk about the need for affordable housing. They have poured millions into housing projects across the city. The problem with these affordable housing projects is that the housing usually targets families that make 50% of the area median income (AMI). 50% of the area median income is $38,200 (set by HUD, not me). Is THAT an affordable housing program or a gentrification/increase tax base program? I wonder if Dan McGrath, the self funded homeowner that can no longer afford to live in Mpls, makes 50% of AMI? It seems to me that the housing programs of Mpls created a) new, high priced housing and b) increased property taxes for existing housing. Not a successful model to help the poor or lower-middle income. I read the Star Tribune articles about Mpls this morning. I am not sure what is more depressing. The state of Mpls government or the fact that the responses on this forum to the Stribs articles have been a) make fun of the strib and b) blame the legislature. We can do better. I think the strib is on to something here. We need a more understandable and accountable city government. Maybe Mpls should use St. Paul as a model? Bill Cullen Whittier P.S. to Cathy Leighton: I have relatives at the South end of the Black Hills (but still just in S. Dakota). What a WONDERFUL place to live. I visit multiple times/year and always wonder why I return to Mpls. REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Property taxes and Mpls dysfunctional government.
Bill Cullen writes: It seems to me that the housing programs of Mpls created a) new, high priced housing and b) increased property taxes for existing housing. Not a successful model to help the poor or lower-middle income. snip We can do better. I think the strib is on to something here. We need a more understandable and accountable city government. Maybe Mpls should use St. Paul as a model? You mean the city's whose strong mayor is pushing to build 5,000 affordable housing units - the sort of dynamic Bill decries in Minneapolis? I think city government could use some reforms. However, I'm less convinced it will result in different decisions. Therein lies the rub. David Brauer Kingfield [PS: I generally share Bill's skepticism that we may be subsidizing a belated solution to a housing problem that's already changed. PPS: If it were me, I would make the property tax structure more steeply progressive to help keep poorer homeowners in the city - or better, expand this income-based circuit breaker, since property taxes aren't a great way to fund many circumstancesthey're just a stable way. But the state legislature decides tax structure.] REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Pinched in the Zipper on Hennepin
As this relates to the example at Hennepin Avenue, the offended driver should join in. It's been used like this for years and more cars are allowed through the intersection with each light cycle... win/win. It may be win/win, but I am looking for some kind of official statement on whether this is legal, not whether it is efficient. I once got into an accident because somebody tried to pass me on a residential street. Hey, there was no oncoming traffic, and apparently I was going too slow for the driver behind me, so passing me on the left used the roadway most efficiently to move the most traffic. Of course, being illegal as far as I can tell, people really don't expect this to happen, and accidents result. I'm not right at the corner of Franklin and Hennepin, so I can't see it exactly, but I am pretty sure there are a few parking meters before the intersection with Franklin, as well as a bus stop. There is no indication that the unmarked lane closest to the curb is meant to be a through lane to the 94 entrance ramp. Just because everybody uses it as such doesn't make it legal, and it can throw people who are unfamiliar to the area for a loop if that is how people use it. Not to mention all the times I have been in the real right lane, getting ready to move over to the entrance ramp, when somebody zooms up on my right from the intersection trying to cut me off. I just want to know if this is legal, not whether it is efficient. === Nathan Hunstad CARAG Minneapolis, MN PGP DH/DSS public key -- http://www.angelfire.com/mn/freakpower/nhpubkey.txt Do you Gonzo?! http://www.angelfire.com/mn/freakpower REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Car Sharing for the Twin Cities getting closer..
Mark Snyder writes: Now consider that another feature of hOurCar is that businesses can sign up for this program rather than have to maintain their own stand-alone fleets and all of the various costs associated with them. Vicky adds: I hope the City of Minneapolis signs up immediately. The last time I parked in the Haaf ramp downtown, there were rows and rows of City of Minneapolis vehicles parked on the first two levels - at least 100 cars. Actually, this might work out well - because individuals will probably prefer to use the cars during evening hours. Vicky Heller North Oaks and Cedar-Riverside REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Property taxes and Mpls dysfunctional government.
The Strib has a wonder series in their OpEd Section today which explains one of the reasons why property taxes in the city are so high. In addition, the series should give all of us food for thought. To even institute a small portion of their suggestions will take extremely strong leadership and a by-in by the citizens of this city. Right now the Charter Commission is attempting clean up some of the language in the charter and to remove some of the provisions and put them into ordinance. That could be a first step in trying to make some changes to make our city run more efficiently. Right now it is a Rube Goldberg operation. Karen Collier Linden Hills REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Property taxes for homestead property must INCREASE [Really CenterPoint price increase]
MN == Michael Hohmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: MN Dorothy J. TItus states, in part... ...And now Center Point Energy proposes a gas rate hike that will raise residential gas costs by 4% while raising business costs by only 1%. And this comes on top of gas prices that are reported to be between 30-50% higher than last year. MN The lower industrial rates for gas are for 'interruptible MN service' customers that have dual-fuel capability. They get a MN low rate when plenty of gas and pipe capacity is available, MN and get shut-off when residential customers require all they MN can get, in really cold weather. The industrial customers MN have oil-burning and/or coal capability, for when the gas MN supplier curtails their 'interruptible' gas supplies. Some MN industrial customers may have a high-priority gas need and MN purchase 'firm' supplies, paying a much higher price. And the MN residential 'firm' customers pay for that level of service MN too-- they aren't ever curtailed. MN The natural gas itself is a commodity and the cost flows MN through directly to the customers... its the MN fixed-distribution costs that vary by customer class, and MN according to the level of service provided (firm or MN interruptible). It's the distribution costs that would be MN increased by Center Point-- their operating costs. The MN commodity cost of natural gas has been rising in recent years MN due to increased demand and tighter supplies... just like oil MN costs, gasoline and diesel. From reading the stuff CenterPoint has sent out, I wasn't so sure about this. They recoup their costs through a mixture of fixed price + per-therm charges. I don't think that it's entirely obvious to decide which is which. It may seem that way, but accounting is at least as complex as statistics, and we all know what they say about THAT branch of mathematics! Also, note that curtailable services aren't goign to be cheaper PER SE than firm --- indeed they must involve some logic that is not going to be free, and so must be at least as expensive as the kind of simple flow-through that's all you need for firm delivery. The savings on curtailable supply is NOT in the delivery cost, it's in being able to manage the commodity cost. Another concern I have about this is that the revision in pricing will tend to deter conservation (since a higher proportion of the price will be paid whether one uses the commodity or not). Is that really a policy we want right now? Especially when the nation as a whole is trying to clean up the atmosphere by substituting more and more natural gas for coal? Also, I fear that we'll all REALLY take it in the neck after CenterPoint has moved more of its charges into fixed fees, and then the per-therm rate skyrockets again -- Robert P. Goldman ECCO [EMAIL PROTECTED] REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] RE: Property Taxes in Minneapolis
I was told many years ago that Minneapolis had its own assessor because it wanted to be able to control the assessments of the expensive downtown properties. Only a very few people had access to those calculations. At that time, 1969, the most expensive house in Minneapolis was assessed at just over $100,000. It was in Kenwood, but not on the Lake. It was told to me by the Wayzata City Assessor, who employed one (as Assessor and Building Inspector) for the same reason with respect to its expensive residential properties. I worked for the City of Wayzata at that time. Wayzata had a half dozen homes valued at over $100,000 in those days. Ray Marshall Minnehaha Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2004 10:44:36 -0600 From: Cathy Leighton [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Mpls] Property Taxes in Minneapolis To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] An earlier post raised the question and I haven't seen it answered yet. Why does Minneapolis have its own assessor? This is rather unusual isn't it? I don't belive that St. Paul does. Isn't this just another layer of beauracracy? Isn't Hennepin County already set up to do this? I know the checks are made out to Hennepin County. Ramsey County seems to be able to handle St. Paul. Why can't we eliminate this duplication of service? Maybe someone on the list knows the history of this and can update us. Catherine Leighton Live in Longfellow/Work North East REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Pinched in the Zipper on Hennepin
Dan Prozinski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The logic of the zipper merge: - when all available lanes are used, the traffic does not back up as far to the rear /snip/ all true benefits. Another one is the lower likelihood of stutter-start (I think traffic engineers have another more technical term). That's the phenomenon where you see a car entering a lane causing the car behind to stop ... and a chain reaction of stopping cars. It actually takes longer for that chain to resume pace due to slower start-up times and differing intervals between cars. The zipper method permits the chain of vehicles to maintain a self-regulating pace (provided everyone plays nice at the merging point). Rick Mons Tanglewood - Shoreview REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Property taxes for homestead property
Seems like we've got two strands of outrage going on simultaneously: taxpayers, particularly business owners, complaining about how much city waste there is; and others complaining that the city is not doing enough to get services to the poor. Maybe the fact that there's outrage from both sides reveals an attempt to find a middle path. One issue that we should tease out from the outrage is how much of what people see as waste is actually money that could be used for some other purpose. Dan is outraged by the car-sharing experiment. But does the money going into this project take away from something else? Or does it come from some special source, that either doesn't cost city $$$ or radically leverages city $$$ with outside $$$. In the latter case, even if it costs city dollars, it may be a net win (even if you don't like it), because the net inflow gets spent here. And some of the issue is that we have to combine our concerns with those of others. Dan's angry because of the libraries, which he doesn't use, because he buys books. I hardly ever drive, so I could be seething about the money we pay to take care of the roads. And everyone who no longer has kids in school should object to that... If you take this to its logical conclusion, we should all go off and live in the outback and do everything for ourselves. What's the criterion for distinguishing between a reasonable public expenditure and an unreasonable one? My guess is that most of us think schools and libraries are ok. Not that I'm unsympathetic to Dan --- I'm appalled by the rise in my property taxes. But a lot of it is a shift in columns, as far as I can tell. The state's cut my taxes, and stopped giving money to the city, so the city raises my taxes. As for services for the poor (particularly housing), this seems like a tough tightrope to walk. The problem is that the suburbs and exurbs are already dumping their social problems into the cities for us to pay for. If we invite more and more of this, we could find ourselves just ending up as a new Detroit --- another island of poverty in the middle of a sea of affluence. That's not even good for the poor; as the tax base goes down the services get worse and worse. There's no easy solution to this --- certainly not outrage at the city's attempt to draw in more affluent taxpayers. It's perfectly rational to concentrate services in the cities, where they can be more effectively delivered (would you really want to try to replicate HCMC up at Lake of the Woods?). The problem is that our governmental system (despite the laudable idea of the Metropolitan Council), doesn't take this into account, and throughout the country the suburbs and exurbs have been on the rise, while the cities are saddled with a combination of increasing social burdens and collapsing revenue. -- Robert P. Goldman ECCO [EMAIL PROTECTED] REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Property taxes for homestead property
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The problem is that the suburbs and exurbs are already dumping their social problems into the cities for us to pay for. It's not clear to me how suburbs dump their social problems into the cities for (city taxpayers) to pay for. Can you provide some examples? I wholly support the fact that the vast majority of social services are funded via state and county funds rather than municipal funds since it amortizes those societal costs across a broader spectrum og population. I would also agree that there are disproportionately more impoverished who live in the cities than the suburbs (but disagree when others attribute this to a conscious conspiratorial set of actions). This is the first I've read that the suburbs have social problems that are somehow transferred to the cities ... or p'haps you misspoke (er, mistyped). Rick Mons Tanglewood - Shoreview REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] RE: Who's in charge? The Strib is, apparently. (Charles Gimon)
All I can say is that I'm glad someone is stepping forward on the issue. As a student of urban and regional planning in California, the sometime policy abberations charged to competition between chartered cities versus those whose form is dictated by the state legislature are instructive: lots of train wrecks there. A charter city with a critical mass of people and/or money can get quite aways ahead, but without one or the other, it can turn into a bit of a quaint joke. As a city, we've become the butt of such jokes told by folks that don't and probably won't have to deal with problems of our scope. The simplicity of city governments with forms governed by state law can cut through a whole lot of BS, but unless you can deal with the kind of nonsensical policy driven by partisan politics and economic competion that pops up in either model, you may not reap much more with the sharper tool. A Minneapolis with a sharp charter may be just what we need to laugh last, but we've got to hone it with some open discussion (I'm not all that convinced that a strong mayor form is much better; other models are possible). I'm glad that the Star Tribune has started and suggest that folks read all five of the opinion pieces in Opex regarding the topic as they are eye openers. Let's fashion ourselves a new charter (and slap in an IRV provision in, of course). Bill Kahn Prospect Park REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Restaurant LRT connections
I am taking a biking group I belong to (now hiking between the biking and skiing seasons) on the LRT and to lunch. Can anyone suggest restaurant locations within a reasonable walk of the line? Cedar riverside area? These are mainly suburban upper crust women and I don't want to hit the Mall for lunch. (IE I want to expand their horizons). It would be good to have an online directory to tell you what is close to each stop Or a really comprehensive map. If there is and anyone can tell me how to get to it , I would appreciate that also. Phyllis Kahn 59B REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] RE: [Really CenterPoint price increase]
Per Robert Goldman's comments below: It's complicated, but pretty logical, yet not entirely obvious. I'll try to keep it simple. If interested, read on... otherwise move on, you'll be bored or lost. They recoup their costs through a mixture of fixed price + per-therm charges. I don't think that it's entirely obvious to decide which is which. In general, commodity costs are variable... firm pipeline capacity is always fixed. Principal issues argued before the Public Utility Commission (MN PUC) center on allocation of fixed/variable costs over customer classes of service... not so much on the cost of gas, which is passed through to customers directly. Also, note that curtailable services aren't going to be cheaper PER SE than firm --- indeed they must involve some logic that is not going to be free, and so must be at least as expensive as the kind of simple flow-through that's all you need for firm delivery. The savings on curtailable supply is NOT in the delivery cost, it's in being able to manage the commodity cost. Yes and no. First off, to avail yourself of interruptible supplies, you must have alternate fuel capability... added costs. Secondly, curtailable (interruptible) delivery service is cheaper than firm service. With firm service, you are basically paying for uninteruptible pipeline and distribution system capacity-- the ability to get the gas delivered (from wellhead to burnertip) when pipeline and distribution capacity is at limit. There is only so much firm capacity available- without added capital investment for additional capacity. If demand is growing and capacity is limited, firm rates will rise. If they get too expensive, it's possible that regulators might order that capacity be added, slowing or placing downward pressure on fixed charges associated with firm capacity, as the new capital charges are depreciated over many years. And if the commodity cost of gas gets excessively high, an alternate fuel may be cheaper... and dirtier to burn... decisions to switch fuels are made on cents/MMBTU. The commodity cost of gas varies daily or monthly and seasonally, ranging from maybe $3/MMBTU in summer to maybe $15/MMBTU on the coldest days in January. Interstate/intrastate pipelines and local distribution fixed/variable costs are additional charges, and may vary seasonally as well. Sometimes even the commodity cost of gas will vary depending if it is guaranteed firm or is an interruptible supply-- before you even get it into a pipeline. If it is uninterruptible you will pay a premium, otherwise you may lose the supply if it's interruptible and demand increases and other customers offer a higher price-- again, that's before it even gets into a pipeline. Once in the pipeline then you worry about pipeline capacity and your rights to that capacity, and costs. There are fixed/variable costs associated with pipelines delivering to Center Point, and there are fixed/variable costs associated with distributing the gas in Center Point's system. If the customer is buying the natural gas from Center Point, the commodity cost of gas is a direct pass through to customers... no mark up! Fixed and variable costs are allocated to various customer classes according to the common usage patterns of the customer class. Additionally, large customers may be purchasing the commodity directly from a gas producer in TX or Canada, and paying their own transport to Center Point, in which case the customer pays one distribution charge to Center Point (based on Center Point's fixed/variable cost allocation and the customer's class of service- i.e. large or small volume firm or interruptible), and other transport/commodity costs to someone else. Another concern I have about this is that the revision in pricing will tend to deter conservation (since a higher proportion of the price will be paid whether one uses the commodity or not). Is that really a policy we want right now? The commodity cost of gas has probably increased by 50% over past couple of years (on annual basis), while Center Point's operating costs have probably increased minimally over the past couple of years. Compare your monthly Center Point bill in July/August when a water heater is being used to the bill in Jan/Feb when the furnace is on... it's the commodity cost of gas that swings your bill up and down, not the OM of the local distributor. The higher proportion of the bill during most of the year is the commodity cost, and conservation measures reduce the amount of the commodity needed. Residential customers pay for the commodity cost of gas based on a weighted average cost of gas (various suppliers, volumes and costs in a given month)... with no mark up on the commodity cost. There are also fixed and variable transport costs associated with getting the gas from the wellhead to Center point. Center Point then has it's own fixed/variable distribution costs which are add on. It's the allocation of Center Point F/V
[mpls] Strib article and the state of the city
There have been many posts lately about IRV, at- large representation vs. wards or districts etc.. I am not so sure that any of these changes will fix anything. The city has an at-large school board and most of the school board members live in the areas that, low and behold did not get school closings. On the other hand the Park Board has a combination of at-large and districts. It turns out that instead of the at-large combining with the commissioners of their areas they tend to vote against them. No matter what the system, it is the people who bother to figure out how it works that get what they want, why do you think Minn and Cherryholmes are getting what they want. As in any situation knowledge is power and I have to say that this list and the internet in general have made getting the knowledge to fight the good fight a lot easier. The article in the StarTribune if nothing else given me more knowledge with which to fight (like the Board of Estimation and Taxation and the MPRB double dealing the city). I am not so shocked now by the city choosing not to replace the old and obsolete parkway lighting after that bit of shenanigans. Though some of the suggestions made in the article aren't going to do a lick of good at least the discussion is now being had. Liz Wielinski Columbia Park REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Property taxes for homestead property must INCREASE
David Shove wrote: Used car salesmen are preferable to developers. WM: From your mouth to god's ears. One city assessor wants the car dealers off Lake St. because there are developers ready to buy. And there are. We, the people who live close to Lake St.--a mile each direction--still buy our cars from these used car dealers, and will need to, at least for another entire generation (20 yrs.) If the in-flow of immigrants stops, only one generation. Imagine how much more just, pleasant, democratic, and affordable life in the cities would be without them! Without them manipulating and diverting council and park board members, misusing TIF and eminent domain and taxes. Without their glossy songs and dances, taking huge chunks of public meeting time to the exclusion of citizens, the better to fleece them. Prefabricated dog and pony shows to bamboozle the hicks. WM: I don't have as jaundiced a view, mainly because in every spot on the globe where people gather in such masses that they form cities, the situation is the same. London was once a tiny dot on the globe, now once far away Kent is a neighborhood. Cairo the same. Moscow, Berlin, Delhi, Beijing. From my reading in archeology, it would seem that developers were once the kings or pharaohs or big poobahs, one way or another. And they did throw their considerable weight around. And developers did put on dog and pony shows to sell their ideas. What honks me off most about the situation is that I'm city born and bred and hugely out of my element in the suburbs, small towns, and farms. I like city life. The back of beyond makes a nice visit, not a place to live every day, from my perspective. And, using Bill Cullen's figures, I make less than a quarter of the median income. Yes, I could find a perfectly usable house in a small town in MN for $10,000 and the taxes would be bupkis. Small towns are also deadly stultifying, in my estimation, and their blizzards are something terrifying. But I also like having windows on all 4 sides of my abode. Such is life, if you don't have spinach between your teeth, you've got toilet paper stuck to your shoe. WizardMarks, Central Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] designer voting schemes -- at-large council members
On Sunday, December 5, 2004, at 11:00 AM, Anderson Turpin wrote: I think the advantage of geographic proximity of council members is vastly over-rated. In the almost 30 years I've lived in Minneapolis, I have never once even known the location of any of my district representatives' homes. Does anybody actually go to the council person's house and knock on their door if they have a problem? I think it makes more sense to call them or visit them at their office, which is downtown. So what does is matter if my representative lives 2 miles from me or 10 miles? I would find it a lot easier to work with a representative that was close to me in my interests rather than one that lived close by. I don't think it is just the geographical proximity that creates the advantage of district representation. If you live in a district, you know who your council member is. If you are represented by the entire city council, how do you know who to find when you visit downtown? Who is held accountable for decisions made that affect your area? It just seems to me that an at-large system would be more likely to get candidates running on the issues, instead of neighborhood power brokers. In my ward, the last two standing candidates always have almost identical beliefs on the issues. Of course, we would need to have both cumulative voting and at-large voting for the benefits to happen. Even IRV can have this effect. In a race of three or more candidates, negative campaigning doesn't work as well, and campaigns must be about the issues. It could also have the effect of encouraging more candidates to run, because each candidate knows that he or she will make it top the general election ballot. With a field-narrowing primary, potential candidates may perceive their chances of winning a contest of primary voters to be very different from the kind of appeal they might have to the general electorate. David Weinlick Armatage REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [mpls] Strib article and the state of the city
Liz Wielinski writes: -Original Message- The city has an at-large school board and most of the school board members live in the areas that, low and behold did not get school closings. While I don't think there was a quid pro quo, the school board's at-large structure invites such suspicion. And it's one good reason to reject the Strib's reform of new at-large councilmembers. The Strib proposes to change the current 13-member, ward-based, full-time Council into a part-time body with 6 wards and 4 at-large members (plus a full-time mayor who presides). This is a double-whammy of elitism: 1. It increases the cost of elections (full-time candidates have to fund citywide races, and bigger wards raise those races' costs) AND 2. It reduces the ability of non-professionals to serve on the Council (or, as the Strib so piquantly put it, This would...make it possible to recruit high-quality council members from the private sector's professional ranks, including Republicans whose influence desperately is needed in city government.) Tell me this isn't a recipe for Southwest Minneapolitans to be over-represented on the Council. While most voters would live elsewhere and could vote those geographic interests, I still think it tilts the field too heavily toward those with dough (or connections to it) and against regular folks candidacies. After all, the Park Board and School Board are part-time, with a blend of at-large and wards (Parks) or all at-large (Schools) and right now, no one is suggesting they work better than the Council - in fact, the Strib wants to abolish them! I think members can come up with less elitist plans to boost broad-based interests on the council, and I welcome being reminded about those ideas. I'm still pondering how I feel about city manager government (I lived in Des Moines where there was a real bloodbath over replacing a manager who had become too much of a strongman). In any event, I'd be remiss if I didn't thank the Strib opinion folks for producing the package - it's a great way to get people thinking about positive change. It's up to those of us who live here to make sure the change we adopt is positive. David Brauer Kingfield REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Cedar-Riverside narratives needed.
Forwarded at the request of the sender... Students in a public history course being taught at the University are working on some projects related to the history of the Cedar Riverside area. They are trying to fill in some gaps in the more recent history (50's through the 90's) of the community by collecting narratives from people who lived in or participated in activities on the West Bank. Specifically, they are looking for stories about 1). Dania Hall, 2). the coop movement and 3). the Cedar Theatre (now the Cedar Cultural Center). If any of you have stories that you'd be willing to share, please send them to me off-line ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) and I'll forward them on to the students. Thanks! Susan Hunter Weir Phillips Resident REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Property taxes for homestead property
gemgram wrote: The City has the Sears building and opportunities for outside development of the site. WM: I sat in on the meetings with the Chicago Lake Design Review Committee for years and every single developer who came along wanted city money one way or another. It was made a TIF area as far back as the 80s, I think. The accepted logic is that no one wanted to redevelop the Sears site unless they could tear down Sears. It was the neighborhoods around Sears which demanded that the building stay. At the very same time, with the City having budget crunch that necessitates needed police officers to be cut from the payroll, the City Council and the Mayor begin to build a 120 million dollar downtown edifice library. WM: I beg to differ. It was we who allowed the library board to build the new downtown library through an $140 million referendum. The lone voice against it was Wally Swan of the Board of Estimates and Taxation. Hindsight being so very clear, I can say that I think the library system would have been better off with a referendum of half that size and instructions to fix the downtown library and all the branches and put money into a paying account for acquisitions into the future. Hindsight and a buck eighty-three will get you coffee in some joints. Why in gods name didn't they combine the Sears site and the library needs and create the biggest city library on the planet for 1/4 the cost of either one otherwise? Oh that's right, it just would not have been as cool a monument to their egos. WM: It wouldn't have been downtown either. Somehow tradition seems to demand that library system headquarters be downtown. Libraries should stand alone, anyway, principally do to fire hazards. Further, the Sears building had to undergo massive abatements of lead paint, creosote, and whatever else before even beginning to undertake redevelopment. having the library system undertake such a project would be crazy. Talk about mission creep! WizardMarks, Central Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [mpls] Strib article and the state of the city
I take serious issue with David Brauer on the subject of split representation for elected boards and councils. Neither all-ward or all at-large local policy bodies are a good thing. Whether the Mayor should preside over a city council of this size in a city of this size is questionable, but I'm open to suggestions (I have yet to read the Op-Ex section today). Let me preface my remarks with the fact that I served for eight years on the St. Paul Charter Commission during which time I chaired the subcommittee that examined the costs and benefits of a combination ward and at-large system of electing councilmembers as well as a part-time city council. This was 1991. I was the author of the ward/at-large proposal, hoping to convert the council to a balanced representation system - in this case, a four-at-large/five-ward split. Both ballot questions went to the voters. My proposal failed, while the part-time proposal passed. The irony? The Star Tribune Editorial Page excoriated me then - and again in 1993 (when I was a candidate for the St. Paul City Council) for proposing what they assured readers would be a diminishment of voting power for Blacks and other minority communities because going from seven to five wards would increase the size of each ward by 15%. I was not interviewed or allowed to explain why it would yield precisely the opposite effect. Now they seem to have reversed their position. I wonder why. We on the Commission researched this issue to a fare-thee-well then and in subsequent years, when we boned up for asking voters to reconsider a scaled back version of our proposal. In every case where mixed council systems were matched against all-at-large or all-ward types, the general balance of meeting human needs and attracting human capital with that of large bricks-and-mortar capital investments was significantly better and stability between parochial interest and those of the city as a whole far more assured. Striking a balance between issues of narrow parochial views (wards) with those of the city as whole is a critical change heading for better policymaking. Not only is this not elitist, it is just the opposite, removing exclusive fiefdoms from serving as leverage for logrolling votes - a the bane of all-ward systems, creating many more opportunities for all classes of people to have a say in who governs them, and providing the mayor with some competition for what is now his exclusive territory - the city at-large. Let's address David's specific concerns here: 1. Increases in the cost of elections will happen with or without a change in council configuration, and the costs of elections is the last reason not to consider changes that would yield better representation and policymaking for all citizens. Here's why: in the present all-ward system, all voters in the city have but one person to elect while the rest of the council is elected by other sections of the city, thus keeping each ward's constituency utterly reliant on the responsiveness of one of thirteen councilmembers and creating a virtual kingdom with which to bargain with council colleagues on issues of importance to a given ward. This invariably means trading votes for one issue or project for similar support when your time comes for needing it. Those votes are often cast without a shred of concern over the merits of the vote vs. what that vote can do for the councilmember later on. The current system also presents but one opportunity for any citizen to be elected to the Council, for they may only run for the seat that represents their residence area. With a combination (we'll use the Strib's breakdown which is strikingly similar in proportion to the one I proposed and they shot down over ten years ago in St. Paul) of (at least) six wards and/or (at least) four at-large seats, each resident gets to vote - and/or run for - five Council seats instead of one. Further, once elected, ward councilmembers are going to be inclined to respond to constituent concerns more quickly since the voter can run to any one of the other four for satisfaction. Show me the elitism in providing a five-fold opportunity for citizens of all stripes to help influence their city's governance. 2. Where is the evidence that nonprofessionals will be short-changed by such a revision? Oh, yes, a few so-called professionals might run and even be elected. First of all, few would be willing to sacrifice high-level careers for a four-year full time stint on their City Council. You have to want to serve badly to leave a law practice, a medical or dental practice, a corporate executive post for scrutiny, the notoriety and significant drop in pay these men and women would suffer. If and when they do, it will obviously be because they are prone to public service over monetary self-enrichment. But, even then, four years apart from their client bases and customers can leave little to come back to. *I* will tell you that this is hardly a recipe for southwest
[Mpls] This Week in The Minneapolis Observer
CITY WILL MAKE THE CALL ON SNOW EMERGENCIES Next time the city declares a snow emergency, you're going to hear about it in a phone call. SCIENTIST REBUFFED BY MPCA WILL SPEAK HERE JAN. 22 Professor Tyrone Hayes, the University of California-Berkeley endocrinologist whose views on agricultural pollution have drawn a snub from the Minnesota Pollution Control Agency, will have a chance to speak to a Minnesota audience after all. BICYCLE CRASHES RISING Increased bicycle commuting in the city has led to a dramatic increase in car-bike accidents, reports Robyn Repya in Skyway News. CAR-SHARING SERVICE SET TO LAUNCH IN SPRING An innovative Twin Cities car-sharing program has received government funding and is slated to launch the service in the spring. COMMUNITY CONNECTIONS The venerable Citizens League has introduced a one-stop online clearinghouse for local public affairs events. The Community Connections Calendar at http://ccc.localevents.net features dozens of events that League president Sean Kershaw says often get overlooked. For these stories and more, visit www.mplsobserver.com -- Craig Cox Founder/Editor The Minneapolis Observer www.mplsobserver.com 612/721-0285 Support the independent media! Pick up your neighborhood newspaper! REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Property taxes for homestead property
Rick Mons said: This is the first I've read that the suburbs have social problems that are somehow transferred to the cities I think this refers to the fact that most suburban governments/constituents won't allow social services and affordable housing to be located in their cities through the use of zoning and other tools. Since displacement simply doesn't mean the problems go away, the services/affordable housing will be located in whatever cities will allow them which traditionally have been in Minneapolis and St. Paul. Consequently the people who need those services will live disproportionately in the city. The fact is that there are only a handful of publicly funded drug treatment centers in the metro region, or half-way houses (like the one for registered sex offenders a few blocks from my home) and they are almost all in the central cities. Consequently that is where the people who use the services will be.Realistically its not like people who need social services somehow have a strong historical preference for urban areas. They have essentially been zoned out of living in most suburbs. So in that sense, the suburbs have transferred the problems. Nick Frank Elliot Park _ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! hthttp://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Property taxes for homestead property must INCREASE
The current attempt by the Taxcheater's League and their Republican Lackies in the Legislature and the Governor's Mansion to take all progressivity out of the property tax system is the latest in a long history of broken promises. Remember 40 acres and a mule, treaties, and the massive land grants given to the unregulated railroads? Owning land is a powerful tool to build a sustainable middle class, and without it we again become landless peasants. Almost every one of the African American youth hanging jobless on our streetcorners today had forebears who were promised 40 acres and a mule. What happened? Without the capital to buy a plow for that mule that 40 acres produced no cash crops. The New Deal programs never seemed to make it down to the end of the road where the black farmers lived. And when a farmer needed 400 acres instead of 40 to survive and $100,000 tractor to till all that, the fed's farm loans couldn't find the black farmers either. So over a century after slavery officially ceased there are so few black farmers left it's hard to even count them. In cities like Minneapolis the children of the children of black farmers stand on the streetcorners, the union jobs gone and rent a struggle to hustle for, never mind a down payment. Less than two centuries ago there was an Indian settlement on some of Minneapolis' priciest real estate on the eastern side of Lake Calhoun. On the western side of the Missouri River in the Dakotahs it's hard to tell where the BLM land ends and the Rez begins- it's all grassland barely able to survive very occassional grazing. Out in the middle of this nowhere stands a town two blocks long, it's streets lined with old mobile homes. The one business in town is a steel shed with bars over the windows that looks like the c-store from hell and probably is. All the faces hanging out in front of the store are Indian. The BLM lands reentered the public domain when the homesteaders fled back to jobs in the cities to the east, while the residents of the Rez were forced there from the east. The U.S. Army gave my greatgreatgrandfather William a gravestone in Memphis National Cemetary and eventually coughed up a widow's pension for my greatgreatgrandmother Sophrona. But by then the family farm in what is now a pricy suburb in Milwaukee was lost. Like about 90% of the casualties in the 28th Wisconsin Infantry in the Civil War he died of disease rather than combat, succumbing to typhoid fever in the swamps near Memphis. One of his first duties was putting down a draft riot in Wisconsin, and if William had been on the other side of that draft resistance instead of volunteering for military service our family would be wealthy landlords today. About that same time the federal government passed the Homestead Act, giving any adult 160 acres provided they would live there 5 years and cultivate something. Our federal government was more benevolent to the railroads, giving them wide swaths of land for laying tracks they were going to lay anyway. And showing even more benevolence to the railroads, they didn't bother to regulate them until decades later. I've visited several of these homesteads my family attempted to establish in the Dakotahs, not one was on a paved road and some are not even reachable by road. All are miles from the tiniest of towns and the railroad that charged as much as they pleased to bring whatever you needed in and ship your crops out. At least a half dozen of my forebears homesteaded in the Dakotahs and none of their children remain on the land. In fact, at least half of their homesteads have returned to public ownership. From the false promise of homesteading on the Buffalo Commons of the Dakotahs my family fled to the jobs in Minneapolis. My mom's family lovingly remodeled a home in Camden then sold it as Grandma Shaub turned 90 and the crime moved closer. She bought one of those senior sham co-op apartments that our city is promoting along with condos as home ownership for the masses. Today mom has inherited that co-op apartment and with the management company jacking monthly fees over $400 she is abandoning it. So much for the fantasy of home ownership our city is promoting in condo's and co-ops. My brother and his family found a 50 year old home in the 'burbs for less than a 100 year old one in the 'hood here and hope to have it paid for by the time they retire. Which leaves me with the little house in Hawthorne that we've owned free and clear since grandma bought it on a CD over half a century ago. We're it not for grandma's gift I'd be commuting in 50 miles from a double wide somewhere. I'd love to remodel it and make room for mom and whoever else in the family needs a home, but the assessed valuation is still under $50,000... And with the greedy Republicans I'd best keep it that way, lest I lose it to the taxman before I can pass it on to my nephews and nieces. And don't even talk
