[Mpls] Test Scores, Gettogethers. Multi-Use Development

[Jim Mork]

Michael Atherton:” There are a couple of
interesting education related articles in the
Tribune today. New test scores are out for 3rd
and 5th grades. Unfortunately it doesn't appear
that you can access scores by city on the web,
but these scores are in the hardcopy edition.
Secondly, Minneapolis is about to raise property
taxes to make up for the loss of state
educational funding (not much of a surprise), but
it would be nice to see tests scores and taxes go
up together.”

I hope Michael noticed how student family incomes
and test scores go DOWN together.  Income is a
VERY powerful predictor of success.  Also, did
you happen to notice the private schools DON’T
take the test?  So, how can anyone know how their
students would do?

Jim McGuire:” Add me to this list of those who
would vote against the Hard Rock. Let's support
local businesses”

I don’t like the SYMBOLISM of the Hard Rock Cafe
which is the tendency of our government to build
up debt to support entertainment development, at
the very time when housing was getting worse.

By the way, there’s a very nice cafe at 11th and
Franklin (Maria’s I think).  That’s my notion of
a very good place to go.  Or there’s a coffee
house in Longfellow at 38th Street and 34th
Avenue.  I think the owner is Latino.
-
Michael was wrong in saying the scores aren’t
available online.  Check
http://cflapp.state.mn.us/CLASS/analysis/classdata.jsp?Key=201200090001030001R9039991O&SN=None+Chosen&DN=MINNEAPOLIS&SIM=&CITY=MINNEAPOLIS&SECTION=DA&TR=B&L=0&NP=F”>here

“Sept. 25, 2002 (Minneapolis) The City of
Minneapolis topped the rankings of the nation's
largest cities in an e-government study conducted
by Brown University in Providence, Rhode Island.
Using detailed analysis of 1,567 city government
web sites in 70 of the largest metropolitan areas
in the nation, the rankings were announced in the
second annual installment of a comprehensive
e-government study conducted by researchers at
Brown University's Center for Public Policy
earlier this month.”

Well, Minneapolis was a little LATE, but I do
like how it works now. So maybe later is better.

Robin Garwood:” Which brings us to the more
important question: how do we solve this? I
disagree with your defeatist sentiment that "all
the laws in the world won't make people honest."
The law against murder doesn't keep our society
totally free from murder, but it's still a really
good idea”

Kinda depends a LITTLE on whether the laws are
enforced.  We’ve gotten more and more into the
mindset that “voters don’t like enforcement of
anything not involving blood,  so lets go easy”. 
And with the anti-tax sentiments, it is also
CHEAPER to reduce the enforcement of laws.  So
Victoria can’t validly make her generalization
until she demands that ALL laws be vigorously
enforced. When she sees the bill handed down for
VIGOROUS law enforcement, she’ll probably say “I
don’t want laws enforced”, which then will mean
that all the dead letters in the world won’t
change anything.

Michael Hohmann:” Talk it up, list members. What
are the strengths and weaknesses of the land
trust models? How can we structure the models to
be most effective, given the limited financial
resources available? How can the private sector
best be involved with the land trust model”

Maybe what is needed is a credit union that DOES
offer financing to buy homes on leased land.  How
do condos get financing?  They don’t have land
ownership, either.

Mark:”I remember back in the good ol' days when I
walked from my fraternity in Dinkytown (we're one
of the few not on frat row along University Ave)
to East Bank campus. It was about 8-12 blocks
depending on where your class was. Granted, we
were mostly able-bodied young folks, but we also
lugged around those nice 20-pound backpacks on
our shoulders - oh, did I mention it was uphill -
both ways? :-) “

I’m in my late 50’s Mark, and last summer I
walked from Longfellow to St Paul’s Westside.  It
was a nice day and a very nice walk, escpecially
across the High Bridge. And then I walked up to
Cathedral Hill, and finally took a bus back home.

I suppose 6 blocks is not “too far”, it is
further than people WANT to walk.

. 





 







=
Jim Mork (Cooper Neighborhood)

Vote Wellstone!  One of the few people in Washington who'll stick his neck out for 
BOTH  the stockholders (combatting management fraud) AND the working 
people.
Bush's war.
What's it for?
Polls and profits,
Nothing more!

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Re: [Mpls] Roosevelt library

[Mark Snyder]

I strongly agree with the points John Rocker makes in favor of mixed-use
development and increasing density along transit routes, but six blocks is
too far to walk from a library to an LRT stop?

No wonder obesity is becoming an epidemic in the United States.

I remember back in the good ol' days when I walked from my fraternity in
Dinkytown (we're one of the few not on frat row along University Ave) to
East Bank campus.  It was about 8-12 blocks depending on where your class
was.  Granted, we were mostly able-bodied young folks, but we also lugged
around those nice 20-pound backpacks on our shoulders - oh, did I mention it
was uphill - both ways? :-)

But seriously, I find it amusing to think that a six block walk would be
unmanageable for most people when up here in Windom Park, we've got folks
talking about walking paths for seniors.  Of the two path options I've seen
so far, one runs 1.5 miles and the other runs 1.6 miles.

Mark Snyder
Windom Park (59A)
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

On 9/25/02 1:44 PM, "John Rocker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Steve Brandt has a good article in today¹s paper about whether or not the new
> Roosevelt library should be part of a mixed-use development.
> 
> http://www.startribune.com/stories/462/3324554.html
> 
> The city needs to increase its density along transit routes, but what both
> sides of the argument appear to be missing is that the site is almost one-half
> mile from the light rail stop at 38th and Hiawatha -- and that is twice as far
> as what is considered standard ³walking distance² from the station. To take
> advantage of light-rail, the library board and the MCDA should be looking for
> a mixed-use site as close as possible to 38th & Hiawatha, preferably within
> view of the station.  One of the justifications for the cost of light-rail is
> that it spurs mixed-used, transit-oriented development. A mixed-use library
> project is ideal within walking distance of the station, but the proposed site
> is too far away to take advantage of that.
> 
> 
> 
> John Rocker
> 
> Calhoun
> 
> 
> 


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Re: [Mpls] Get Together at Gasthof's!

[Mark Snyder]

I enthusiastically second Craig's suggestion of Gastof's.  It's been a while
since I've done Oktoberfest, but it's very cool and the brews are supreme!

So c'mon and venture over to our section of town and let the Nordeasters
show ya how to party. :-)  Maybe RT will even show up for a hit of the
snuff?

For those seeking vegan fare, perhaps some of us could gather over at Pizza
Luce and join the festivities a little later on?

Mark Snyder
Windom Park (59A)
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

On 9/25/02 4:08 PM, "Craig Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Unless I am overruled by the list master, the die has been set.
> 
> In honor of the longest traveling guest of our list,  Pamela Taylor
> 
> THE SOME WHAT QUARTERLY MPLS LIST GET TOGETHER
> is reconvening at
> 
> Gasthof Zur Germutlichkeit
> 2300 University Avenue
> In Beautiful North East Minneapolis
> Friday October 4th 6:00PM-?
> 
> They are in the middle and will be celebrating Octoberfest
> They have a big tent outside. This solves the smoke/no-smoke issue.  Smoke
> if you have em, outside with the breeze. DRESS WARM. Bring gloves.
> 
> I've been there during O'fest before.  It's fun. The polka band plays from
> 6-9PM then moves downstairs to Mario's Ratskeller.
> 
> Let's take in some Minnesota culture, sample some old world suds, and see if
> the hunters moon will pay us a visit. And see if those southsiders will dun
> to travel to parts unknown.
> 
> 
> Craig Miller
> Kid Camden
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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[Mpls] MIA Expansion

[john]

The Minneapolis Art Institute Expansion


The Art institute Expansion lacks all human
scale even though it adjoins a historic
residential neighborhood.  It smacks of the
Corporate/Institutional Big Box averageness in
a beautifully preserved Minneapolis
neighborhood.  This development is foreboding
for many neighborhoods, in fact the city itself, for
the reasons listed below.  We need to not be
railroaded down a process where there are
questions and concerns.  We deserve to have
our concerns addressed and the impacts
mitigated.

1. Product Placement

This project is like Cheerios in a movie.  Except
it is our city and our neighborhood.  There are
already Target print ads selling Michael Graves
sheets and spatulas with the tag line,
“designed by the architect of the new
Minneapolis Institute of Arts.”   This is all
especially relevant because of the “green light “
approach thru all the various departments listed
below.  Why was this project so Fast Tracked
when there are so many caution lights blinking?
Did the influence and money of these
institutional/corporate behemoths speed up this
Fast Track?  This project helps Target, no
doubt.  It helps their primary designer.  How
does this “soft money” help differ from the “hard
money” given on the 11th and Nicollet project?
Or is it startlingly similar?  We’ve already
allowed them to call our parkland “Target Park”.
A plaque in our park declares it so.  The last
mayor and council attempted to get his
“scaffolding” put in our neighboring park.
Please read on for the next six reasons on why
this Big Box is not ready for our human scale
neighborhood.

2. Process

There have been no public hearings specifically
for this issue with the impacted communities.
NONE.

Of the four meetings they claim credit for, the 1st
Transportation and Land Use Planning meeting
by the Whittier Alliance, this project was not
listed on any public notice.  Plans were not
passed out.  A site plan was presented as
“preliminary” and the project was described as
within all codes. Omitted was any discussion of
the PUD, Conditional Use Permit or variances.
The 2nd meeting was at the Business
Association meeting - the residences weren’t
notified. The 3rd meeting, TLUP again, was
publicized though there was no mention on the
notification to the neighbors about the PUD,
CUP or variance required.  Not all the neighbors
even received a post-card notice.  Discussion
was ended after about 5 minutes with the
caveat that there would be “ ample time for
further questions at other events.”  No other
valid opportunity has been presented.  The 4th
meeting was a Whittier Board meeting, no local
notification of the agenda. Some neighbors who
knew about the meeting called to find out if they
could come and speak, they were told they
could attend, but that no questions would be
allowed.  (Questions were allowed, after all.
Traditionally, questions from the public are not
allowed at Whittier Board meetings.) That’s it,
no open public hearings where dialog was
fostered. Ten minutes of contained Q & A for a
forty million dollar project.

3. Planning Department

The proposed expansion would step-upon the
Minneapolis Plan in at least three areas.
1.) “Concentrate the greatest density and height
in the interior of institutional campuses.”   2.)
“Develop building forms on the edges of
institutional property which are most reflective of
neighboring properties.” Lastly, The
Minneapolis Plan talks about new structures
minimizing shadows on adjacent areas.  (Even
in this PUD, the building is as close as
possible to the single–family homes as
allowed.)  All three of these are egregiously
discarded in this development.   “Vital, healthy
institutions bring tremendous stability and
presence to any city neighborhood.  Balancing
the need for expansion with the scale and
character of pedestrian street level activity is a
critical issue for both the livability of city
neighborhoods surrounding institutions and the
continued success of these organizations.”
There is no balance in the current plan. If the
City will not listen to it’s own plan for the big
developments, when will they?

4. Zoning Department

This proposed 117,000 square foot building is
requesting a Zero parking requirement.  Zero.
Incredulously, they are saying this expansion
will require Zero new employees and 10-20%
new guests.
And actually the placement of their new
structure eliminates 66 existing spaces.  Net
parking loss—66spaces-- for a 117,000 square
foot building across the street from a residential
neighborhood.  (Their Traffic and Parking plans
have not been presented to any neighborhood
meeting.  And the neighborhood organization
approvals that have been given are contingent
on approval of these plans.)  The required
parking after their expansion is 1700 spaces;
they will have 625, some of those shared with
The Children’s Theatre.  This is a variance of
1075.  If you take out the CTC’s required 238
spaces, The Institute has only 387 of their 1700.
This 

[Mpls] MIA Expansion

[john]

The Minneapolis Art Institute Expansion


The Art institute Expansion lacks all human
scale even though it adjoins a historic
residential neighborhood.  It smacks of the
Corporate/Institutional Big Box averageness in
a beautifully preserved Minneapolis
neighborhood.  This development is foreboding
for many neighborhoods, in fact the city itself, for
the reasons listed below.  We need to not be
railroaded down a process where there are
questions and concerns.  We deserve to have
our concerns addressed and the impacts
mitigated.

1. Product Placement

This project is like Cheerios in a movie.  Except
it is our city and our neighborhood.  There are
already Target print ads selling Michael Graves
sheets and spatulas with the tag line,
“designed by the architect of the new
Minneapolis Institute of Arts.”   This is all
especially relevant because of the “green light “
approach thru all the various departments listed
below.  Why was this project so Fast Tracked
when there are so many caution lights blinking?
Did the influence and money of these
institutional/corporate behemoths speed up this
Fast Track?  This project helps Target, no
doubt.  It helps their primary designer.  How
does this “soft money” help differ from the “hard
money” given on the 11th and Nicollet project?
Or is it startlingly similar?  We’ve already
allowed them to call our parkland “Target Park”.
A plaque in our park declares it so.  The last
mayor and council attempted to get his
“scaffolding” put in our neighboring park.
Please read on for the next six reasons on why
this Big Box is not ready for our human scale
neighborhood.

2. Process

There have been no public hearings specifically
for this issue with the impacted communities.
NONE.

Of the four meetings they claim credit for, the 1st
Transportation and Land Use Planning meeting
by the Whittier Alliance, this project was not
listed on any public notice.  Plans were not
passed out.  A site plan was presented as
“preliminary” and the project was described as
within all codes. Omitted was any discussion of
the PUD, Conditional Use Permit or variances.
The 2nd meeting was at the Business
Association meeting - the residences weren’t
notified. The 3rd meeting, TLUP again, was
publicized though there was no mention on the
notification to the neighbors about the PUD,
CUP or variance required.  Not all the neighbors
even received a post-card notice.  Discussion
was ended after about 5 minutes with the
caveat that there would be “ ample time for
further questions at other events.”  No other
valid opportunity has been presented.  The 4th
meeting was a Whittier Board meeting, no local
notification of the agenda. Some neighbors who
knew about the meeting called to find out if they
could come and speak, they were told they
could attend, but that no questions would be
allowed.  (Questions were allowed, after all.
Traditionally, questions from the public are not
allowed at Whittier Board meetings.) That’s it,
no open public hearings where dialog was
fostered. Ten minutes of contained Q & A for a
forty million dollar project.

3. Planning Department

The proposed expansion would step-upon the
Minneapolis Plan in at least three areas.
1.) “Concentrate the greatest density and height
in the interior of institutional campuses.”   2.)
“Develop building forms on the edges of
institutional property which are most reflective of
neighboring properties.” Lastly, The
Minneapolis Plan talks about new structures
minimizing shadows on adjacent areas.  (Even
in this PUD, the building is as close as
possible to the single–family homes as
allowed.)  All three of these are egregiously
discarded in this development.   “Vital, healthy
institutions bring tremendous stability and
presence to any city neighborhood.  Balancing
the need for expansion with the scale and
character of pedestrian street level activity is a
critical issue for both the livability of city
neighborhoods surrounding institutions and the
continued success of these organizations.”
There is no balance in the current plan. If the
City will not listen to it’s own plan for the big
developments, when will they?

4. Zoning Department

This proposed 117,000 square foot building is
requesting a Zero parking requirement.  Zero.
Incredulously, they are saying this expansion
will require Zero new employees and 10-20%
new guests.
And actually the placement of their new
structure eliminates 66 existing spaces.  Net
parking loss—66spaces-- for a 117,000 square
foot building across the street from a residential
neighborhood.  (Their Traffic and Parking plans
have not been presented to any neighborhood
meeting.  And the neighborhood organization
approvals that have been given are contingent
on approval of these plans.)  The required
parking after their expansion is 1700 spaces;
they will have 625, some of those shared with
The Children’s Theatre.  This is a variance of
1075.  If you take out the CTC’s required 238
spaces, The Institute has only 387 of their 1700.
This 

Re: [Mpls] Tests and Taxes

[Becker]

From: "Michael Atherton"


> So the wife and I are watching the WCCO news and
> a report comes on about the possible tax levy and
> the wife says to me, "How can the school board
> raise taxes without it going before the voters or
> the city council?" And I says, "Don't know."
>
> Can anyone explain how this works?

Karen Collier was right in what she wrote.  To add a little more:  The
School Board, the County, and the Metropolitan Council all have the right to
set their levy.  The City, the Park Board, and the Library Board have the
Board of Estimate and Taxation set the maximum level each year and they can
levy anywhere up to the maximum.  A couple, like the Park Museum Fund (the
property tax levy for the Minneapolis Institute of Arts) are an amount set
by legislation.

The Legislature has in the past set maximum levies for local governments
during some years and not for others, depending on the changes that they
have made to the tax system and their whim.

Remember, the big change in taxes was to give commercial/industrial, high
end residential, and rental property.  Don't be surprised not see yourself
on that list.

Carol Becker
Longfellow






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Re: [Mpls] Tests and Taxes

[Mary Hunstiger]

The reason for many questions on this Minneapolis Public Schools  
announcement is that the district has ability to levy taxes for certain 
purposes but the Star Tribune reporter didn't tell us what the district 
is planning  to use the money for. 
Mary Hunstiger
Lynnhurst



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Re: [Mpls] Tests and Taxes

[KarenCollier]

The Mpls School Board is a totally independent board.  They have the power to raise their own levy to meet their budget.  I'm not sure, but I think there's a cap as to how much they can levy for.   Over and above that, they can go to the voters for the special levy - as they have done for the past ten years.  The Council and the Mayor have absolutely no control over the school board.

Karen Collier
Linden Hills

Re: [Mpls] ? New Construction

[RANDERSON67]

Several years ago there was discussion about a health center. In the community meetings to discuss the plan, most in attendance was against the development. Is anyone aware of subsequent meetings with community residents where the community changed its mind?

Robert Anderson
Regina-Field

Re: [Mpls] Tests and Taxes

[Michael Atherton]

>Minneapolis schools set 3.18% levy increase
>http://www.startribune.com/stories/462/3324370.html

So the wife and I are watching the WCCO news and
a report comes on about the possible tax levy and
the wife says to me, "How can the school board
raise taxes without it going before the voters or
the city council?" And I says, "Don't know."

Can anyone explain how this works?

Thanks.

Michael Atherton
Prospect Park

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[Mpls] True Patriotism: A Proposal for a Green-powered Minneapolis

[GarySimmbo]

Evfery time we turn the key in a fossil-fuel engine we are voting for:

War for Oil -- war fought with our "dirty nuclear" weapons of mass 
destruction, which will kill our own troops as well as  innocents for 
generations

Environmental Ecoterrorism here -- degradation of air, water, and soil from 
exhaust and run-off of various toxic substances (transmission fluid, brake 
fluid, coolant system fluids, gasoline, oil)

Environmental Ecoterrorism there -- check out what oild companies do to get 
the crude and get it to you  -- paying off countries like Nigeria and 
Columbia to kill and impoverish people and habitat.  (Too many instances to 
list here, if you are interested check out Corporate Watch at <  
www.corpwatch.org  > amoung other sites.)

All of this, combined with the global campaign of military terrorism waged by 
the USA in defense of our "lifestyle" finds fundamental support as we consume 
petroleum products.

We in Minneapolis live at the edge of a part of the world that has been 
called "the Saudi Arabia of wind power.  According to the US DOE, we could 
power our entire state with wind energy alone.  Factor in solar power, and we 
would have enough energy to power some serious transportation as well -- from 
trains to cars.

(Source:  http://www.eren.doe.gov/state_energy/tech_wind.cfm?state=MN  )

The hydrogen economy will not mature for 50 years or so, and even optimists 
do not see hydrogen cars being brought into common use for 20 years or more. 
There are simply too many safety and economic barriers at this time. However, 
stationary hydrogen fuel cells will likely become a clean source of energy 
over time.

Meanwhile, the patriotic thing to do -- and the *American* thing to do (you 
know, the thing that promotes "liberty and justice for all")  is to develop 
the rich resources of clean energy in our bioregion to reduce our reliance on 
the energy sources that promote the "unAmerican" things we proclaim to oppose 
like oppression of the poor, injustice, hatred and the like.

A strong, diffuse, clean energy system would allow us to strengthen 
ourselves, our economy,  and the world.  I suggest that we on this list urge 
our city leaders and our representatives to the state legislature to develop 
a bold plan for energy liberation for our region.

Meanwhile, who else will join me in reducing use of petroleum products, 
pedaling for peace and for an energy-independant America?

This is a time for (R)evolution.  Are there any real, strong patriots left in 
Minneapolis?

-Gary Hoover
King Field
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Re: [Mpls] List Get Together - Maybe E-BlockHead will cut us a deal

[JIM GRAHAM]

I like this idea also, but can we have it where they allow smoking,
drinking, and lewd and luciferous activity?  (for those who do not know,
Luciferous acts are those the devil makes you do) One of the bars downtown
will work.  How about that one on Washington Avenue? Most List members need
a little spice in their lives, but everyone sitting around talking about how
God awful E-Block is does not sound like a fun atmosphere. Oh yes, include a
place with music and dancing, cause sometimes Granny likes to shake the
Fanny.

Jim Graham,
Ventura Village - (A perverse mind is a terrible thing to waste)

- Original Message -
From: Craig Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Mpls Forum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 10:22 AM
Subject: Re: [Mpls] List Get Together - Maybe E-BlockHead will cut us a deal


> I am in favor of the Hard Rock.  It costed us a lot.  It also costed, in
> part, the employment of SSB/Cherryhomes.
>
> Craig Miller
> Former Fultonite
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> - Original Message -
> From: "Victoria Heller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Mpls Forum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 8:10 AM
> Subject: [Mpls] List Get Together - Maybe E-BlockHead will cut us a deal
>
>
> > How about the Hard Rock?  McLaffurty should be accommodating.
> >
> > If we show our property tax statements, we eat and drink for free.
> >
> > Renters pay double (as always.)
> >
> > Vicky Heller
> > North Oaks
> >
> >
>
> --
> --
> > 
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn
E-Democracy
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> > http://e-democracy.org/mpls
>
>
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[Mpls] Campaign finance considered in ethics report?

[Victoria Heller]

Large sums of cash are funneled into campaign coffers via the "you give me a
check and I'll give you the cash" technique.

The quote from my earlier post was "Here's one way politicos cheat at every
campaign level."

My reference to some people profiting by requesting the $50 PCRP refund was
not specific to local campaigns.

I have seen these transactions occur from time to time over the past 15
years.  Ignore it if you choose to, but it happens more often than you may
wish to admit.  I don't know if the candidates themselves are aware of the
practice:  It is carried out by regular people promoting the candidate.  I
know of no way to trace the source of the cash, or to prosecute the
perpetrators.

There was no factual error in my post.


Robin Garwood wrote:

"Sorry, Victoria, but the PCRP is not available to those who make donations
to candidates for Minneapolis offices.  The PCRP is a state program.

This kind of factual error makes your larger (and unsubstantiated) reports
less believable.  This is unfortunate, because I agree with your basic
point: money has a hugely corrosive impact on politics, including local
politics."


Vicky Heller
Cedar-Riverside (work)
North Oaks (home)






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RE: [Mpls] Fw: get to gether

[Barbara Lickness]

In the spirit of Robin's post there is a new Indian Restuarant on 14th and Nicollet. It's called the New Delhi Restaurant. The food is fabulous!  I don't believe they allow smoking in there, and they have a large variety of vegetarian and vegan selections.  They also have full bar.  For those of us who may be carnivores, there are a bunch of meat entrees as well.  
I am still open to something on the North or Northeast side of town. 
Barb Lickness/Whittier
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[Mpls] Re: Roosevelt Library

[Jim Berg]

In regard to a possible mixed use library at 38th
Street and 23rd Avenue, John Rocker says (snipped
below) that a half mile is "twice as far as what is
considered standard "walking distance" from the
station." 

The new Roosevelt site is about half a mile to the new
LRT stop at Hiawatha and 38th. In all of our
discussions on the Roosevelt Advisory Team, no one
questioned that the site is close enough to walk to
the station. Maybe those of us in Corcoran and
Standish neighborhoods have stronger calf muscles?


Question is: How far is too far to walk to a light
rail station in Minneapolis? 

Jim Berg
Corcoran Neighborhood (about 2.5 blocks from Lake
Street station)



John Rocker says,
"The city needs to increase its density along transit
routes, but what both sides of the argument appear to
be missing is that the site is almost one-half mile
from the light rail stop at 38th and Hiawatha --
and that is twice as far as what is considered
standard "walking distance" from the station. To take
advantage of light-rail, the library board and the
MCDA should be looking for a mixed-use site as close
as
possible to 38th & Hiawatha, preferably within view of
the station.  One of the justifications for the cost
of light-rail is that it spurs mixed-used,
transit-oriented development. A mixed-use library
project is
ideal within walking distance of the station, but the
proposed site is too far away to take advantage of that."

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[Mpls] The Land Trust Model and Affordable Housing

[Michael Hohmann]

I offer a few thoughts on land trusts-- tossing them out for discussion
purposes.  What are your views?

Background-
Over the past decade-plus, the land trust has become a popular model across
the country for those seeking to preserve urban and rural lands, and to
create affordable and energy-efficient housing.

Typically a non-profit community-based [501(c)(3)] organization is
established to raise funds and purchase urban and/or rural lands for the
purpose of pursuing land conservation and affordable housing initiatives.

In rural/suburban-fringe areas, they preserve farmlands and allow farmers to
extract equity from agricultural or wooded property without destroying
agricultural productivity or wilderness value.  This is accomplished largely
through the use of restrictive easements and limited development rights.

In urban areas, they are used to develop affordable and energy-efficient
housing.  In most cases, the trust purchases the land and/or the lot with an
existing structure on it, then rehabs or builds the housing unit(s).  The
trust retains title to the land, sells the home(s) and leases the land to
the buyer(s).  As the property appreciates in value, upside gains in equity
are restricted by the trust so, if there is a sale, the property remains
affordable to the next buyer.  Thus, the property is sold for less than full
market value.  The homeowner typically pays property taxes and holds a long
term lease on the land under the home.  I'm not sure if taxes are based on a
market/assessed value or the limited/trust-restricted value.

The Rondo Land Trust in St. Paul is a good example of how a land trust
providing affordable housing operates in our metro area:
http://www.twincities.com/mld/pioneerpress/3083515.htm
In Mpls., the City of Lakes Community Land Trust is being launched this week
(see Cara Letofsky's earlier post), with a gala tonight at Maria's across
the street from the E. Franklin Library, 13th and E. Franklin- 5:30-7 pm.

Discussion Issues- Home ownership vs rental

The ownership model-
Most land trusts sell the structure to the home buyer and provide a long
term lease on the land.  The logic being based on home ownership providing a
stabilizing influence in the neighborhood (relative to rentals), pride in
ownership, better upkeep, etc.  However, the validity of that 'ownership
model' logic is questionable, given that equity appreciation in these units
is often severely limited in order to preserve the perpetual affordability
concept.

Typically, the conversion of endless rent payments to mortgage payments is
an attractive proposition because the new owner begins building equity in
the property.  As those equity payments slowly grow, they are compounded by
appreciation of property values in the marketplace.  In fact the equity
associated with home ownership (principal payments plus appreciation) often
becomes the largest single asset in many homeowner's portfolios-- especially
those of modest means.  This is the typical justification for owning a home.
If the growth in that equity value is artificially restricted, as it is in
the land trust model, the true value of the 'ownership model' comes into
question (a land trust typically restricts equity growth to 25-50 percent).

Ownership is an expensive proposition since it entails property maintenance
and repair, property insurance and the payment of taxes- all of which may be
offset somewhat by the tax benefits associated with ownership- yet the cash
flow requirements remain.  If a homeowner in a land trust purchases a home
for $100K and lives there 10-20 years, similar homes in the neighborhood may
double in value, yet if the mortgage is paid, the land trust home owner is
typically limited to a 25-50 percent gain in property appreciation-- leaving
$50-$75K on the table in this case- being unable to purchase and move into
another similar property, let alone step up to a fancier property after
owning their home for say, 20 years.  What have they gained via this
ownership option?  Add to this dilemma, the fact that most home owners use
equity (loans) to finance maintenance and improvement costs in their home.
This attractive source of financing is limited -to- non-existent under the
land trust 'ownership model.'  Often times, lenders won't even offer equity
loans in this situation.  Also, the land trust usually holds a
'right-of-first refusal' option to purchase the property from the
lender/mortgage holder, if the property owner defaults-- making the
mortgages very low-risk for the lender, all the time supporting the lender's
CRA statistics in the neighborhood.  The homeowner should receive a lower
mortgage interest rate in such a situation, but I doubt that is ever the
case.  It seems that the home owner is placed at GREAT disadvantage, is
penalized, under these ownership conditions.  Who gains under this model,
besides the lender?

The rental model-
Using a land trust to purchase the land greatly reduces the cost associated
with providing

RE: [Mpls] Campaign finance considered in ethics report?

[Garwood, Robin]

Sorry it took me so long to respond to this...

Victoria Heller wrote, of campaign financing:

"Those in the know make a $50 profit by applying for the political
contribution refund."

Sorry, Victoria, but the PCRP is not available to those who make donations
to candidates for Minneapolis offices.  The PCRP is a state program.

This kind of factual error makes your larger (and unsubstantiated) reports
less believable.  This is unfortunate, because I agree with your basic
point: money has a hugely corrosive impact on politics, including local
politics.  One point of disagreement, though, is that you seem to think that
the corruption flows entirely "top-down," that is, from office holders and
candidates.  In my experience - the Dinkytown McDonald's comes to mind - the
negative influence of money is at least a consensual affair, if not sparked
in many cases by the avarice of businesses lusting for a partner/patsy
inside city government.

Which brings us to the more important question: how do we solve this?  I
disagree with your defeatist sentiment that "all the laws in the world won't
make people honest."  The law against murder doesn't keep our society
totally free from murder, but it's still a really good idea.  

I believe the ethics task force is a step in the right direction.  Most
people's entrance into unethical behavior is like climbing into a bathtub -
toes first, not a cannonball.  If we make the "grey areas" clearer, we may
keep our freshmen CMs off the slippery slope entirely.

The next step is at least partial public financing of local elections.  I'm
glad you brought up the PCRP - it would be hugely beneficial (especially to
candidates attempting to reach out to the non-monied-interests) to have a
Minneapolis version of this astoundingly successful Minnesota program.  I
realize there are those on this list who decry any expenditure of taxpayer
money at all, but the lesson of the last decade is pretty clear: when you
compare the amount of money given in campaign contributions and the amount
of money allocated to private interests, elected officials tend to be a
REALLY good buy.  Let's pay for them ourselves.

Robin Garwood
Seward
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[Mpls] (no subject)

[Craig Miller]

Unless I am overruled by the list master, the die has been set.

In honor of the longest traveling guest of our list,  Pamela Taylor

THE SOME WHAT QUARTERLY MPLS LIST GET TOGETHER
is reconvening at

Gasthof Zur Germutlichkeit
2300 University Avenue
In Beautiful North East Minneapolis
Friday October 4th 6:00PM-?

They are in the middle and will be celebrating Octoberfest
They have a big tent outside. This solves the smoke/no-smoke issue.  Smoke
if you have em, outside with the breeze. DRESS WARM. Bring gloves.

I've been there during O'fest before.  It's fun. The polka band plays from
6-9PM then moves downstairs to Mario's Ratskeller.

Let's take in some Minnesota culture, sample some old world suds, and see if
the hunters moon will pay us a visit. And see if those southsiders will dun
to travel to parts unknown.


Craig Miller
Kid Camden
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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[Mpls] Minneapolis ranked top e-gov site

[Pai, Vaman M]

City of Minneapolis tops e-Gov rankings 
National study ranks City's Web site as most accessible, informative

Sept. 25, 2002 (Minneapolis) The City of Minneapolis topped the rankings of the 
nation's largest cities in an e-government study conducted by Brown University in 
Providence, Rhode Island. Using detailed analysis of 1,567 city government web sites 
in 70 of the largest metropolitan areas in the nation, the rankings were announced in 
the second annual installment of a comprehensive e-government study conducted by 
researchers at Brown University's Center for Public Policy earlier this month.

"We've made great progress in making City government more accessible," says 
Minneapolis Mayor R.T. Rybak. "The City's Web site has been one of the ways we are 
reaching out to the public - providing information, getting feedback and making it 
easier to avail City services - as we move toward a one-stop shop concept. We continue 
to work on making the site user-friendly and provide increased e-services to our 
residents. This is a well-deserved recognition of our efforts."

E-government refers to the delivery of information and services online through the 
Internet. Among the sites analyzed by the Brown University study were those of the 
executive offices, legislative offices, and major agencies serving crucial functions 
of government. Web sites were also evaluated for presence of various features dealing 
with information availability, service delivery, and public access. 

Minneapolis, the top-ranked city, rated 89.5% on a 0-100 point e-government index, 
followed by Seattle (85.9%), Denver (85.3%), San Diego (79.3%) and Boston (77.6%). The 
study is available at http://www.insidepolitics.org/egovt02city.html.
The nation's top-ranked web site can be accessed at www.ci.minneapolis.mn.us.

-x-x-x-

Vaman Pai
Communications Department
612.673.2123





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RE: [Mpls] Fw: get to gether

[Garwood, Robin]

I realize this puts me squarely in the minority - it has for years - but a
meeting at a place with Vegan food options would make the outing much more
doable, for me.  Ethiopian restaurants tend to be safe, though y'all chose
Lalibela last year, right?

Robin Garwood
Seward

-Original Message-
From: Susan Maricle [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 2:10 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [Mpls] Fw: get to gether


I might even come to this. How far does your farthest
forum member travel? I'd be coming about 130 miles
from Bruno.

Susan Maricle
formerly of Folwell

suggestions: the coffee place at 44th and Penn, or
Lucille's Kitchen

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Re: [Mpls] Mpls neighborhoods question Vikes stadium haste

[Eva Young]

At 07:39 AM 9/25/02 -0500, List Manager wrote:
>Writes City Pages' Mike Mosedale, "...critics.. say a headlong rush to
>forge an alliance between the U and the Vikings will come at the expense
>of the neighborhoods most likely affected by the construction of the
>stadium. "It just seems egregious that this will be the largest building
>ever constructed on the university campus, and they've only got six
>months to put it together, and it just came out of this little addendum
>on the Twins bill," says Suzie Overlie, a coordinator with the Southeast
>Como Neighborhood Improvement Association.
>
>http://www.citypages.com/databank/23/1138/article10728.asp

Good article.  The article also links to the Student Senate position on the 
stadium:

"Approved by the:   Student Senate April 19, 2001
Administration - no action required
Board of Regents - no action required
STATEMENT ON THE VIKINGS/GOPHERS STADIUM PROPOSAL
By the Student Senate Consultative Committee of the University of Minnesota 
Student Senate
·   Although much of the student body would like the Minnesota Vikings 
to stay in Minnesota, the University of Minnesota should focus on its 
primary mission: education. A new Vikings/Gophers stadium is not the top 
priority of the student body.
·   Financial resources provided to University by students and 
taxpayers must be directed toward our primary mission: education.
·   There must be appropriate consultation with the University 
community. The Student Senate Consultative Committee and appropriate campus 
student assemblies should be consulted during this process.
·   In reviewing this proposal, the University should consider the 
relationship of this proposal to its priorities. If those priorities are 
met, then the University should consider the following factors in 
evaluating the stadium proposal:
·   Impact on the campus life of students and how 50,000 or more 
additional people on campus will affect the daily lives of students and the 
community of which we are a part.
·   No student services fees money should be used in connection with a 
new stadium
·   Replacement of current surface lot parking must occur BEFORE 
current parking is lost due to a stadium.
·   Parking in newly created ramps should be all-day commuter spots as 
currently in place in surface lots.
·   Parking rates in these ramps should be affordable for students and 
not greatly increased above surface lot rates.
·   Campus safety issues surrounding large events like football games.
·   The impact a new stadium will have on the leases of buildings, 
within the area, that University departments and student organizations 
currently reside in.
·   No University direct or indirect contribution to capital or 
infrastructure costs.
·   Stadium activities must be compatible with University operations 
and values.

As I recall the faculty are not universally supportive of the University 
making this stadium a priority - because many faculty feel that it's 
putting athletics ahead of the U's primary mission.

I would agree with that one.

Let the NFL extend their deadline for the $50,000 contribution towards the 
stadium.  They want it -- they should invest in it.

There's also a real problem if the traffic to stadium events makes it hard 
for evening and weekend students to get to classes.


Eva Young
Near North
Minneapolis, MN

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Re: [Mpls] Coleman vs Wellstone vs Moore

[List Manager]

Folks, this post and thread are not Minneapolis-specific. Let's not keep
this one going.

David Brauer
List manager

on 9/25/02 2:19 PM, Terrell Brown at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Mike Dorn
> 
> I think it should be perfectly clear that if Norm Coleman is elected to
> the senate, he will vote for whomever Bush/Cheney tells him to.  The
> views of ordinary "nobody" Minnesotans like you and I have absolutely
> nothing to do with it.
> 
> 
> [TB]  I suppose one of the options to having one of the dozen or so
> Senators who will follow the administrations instructions, is having a
> Senator who will consistently vote with the dozen of so Senators on the
> far left of any issue.  Both groups are far to marginalized to have
> much effectiveness.
> 
> Living is this state since 1980 and for most of the time that I've been
> following politics and elections, this is the most offensive campaigns
> I've watched.  Offensive by both the Wellstone and Coleman campaigns
> and their supporters.
> 
> I say "and their supporters" because you have to look rather closely to
> see who is actually running the ad.  I guess that's how you keep a
> straight face when you say you aren't running negative ads, someone
> else does it on your behalf.  This campaign is such that even if one
> were inclined to vote for one over the other, they might change their
> mind.
> 
> Web surfing, I found the web site of a guy by the name of Jim Moore
> http://www.mooreforsenate.com
> Moore on his issues page talks about campaigns, he says:  "Independent
> issue ads should be banned. If the courts overturn this provision in
> the recently passed McCain Feingold legislation, I would advocate
> aggressive regulation of these ads. Groups should be required to run
> ads evenly between election and non election periods. If their ads are
> truly an effort to change public policy, they should be willing to do
> so."
> 
> He says it even better on his opening page, he says; "Moneyed special
> interests have stolen our voice, I want to steal it back"
> 

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[Mpls] opps, wrong list

[Brown, Terrell]

This was intended for another list.  Sorry.


Terrell

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
Terrell Brown
Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 2:20 PM
To: Minneapolis Issues List
Subject: [Mpls] Coleman vs Wellstone vs Moore




-Original Message-
From: Mike Dorn

I think it should be perfectly clear that if Norm Coleman is elected to
the senate, he will vote for whomever Bush/Cheney tells him to.  The
views of ordinary "nobody" Minnesotans like you and I have absolutely
nothing to do with it.


[TB]  I suppose one of the options to having one of the dozen or so
Senators who will follow the administrations instructions, is having a
Senator who will consistently vote with the dozen of so Senators on the
far left of any issue.  Both groups are far to marginalized to have
much effectiveness.

Living is this state since 1980 and for most of the time that I've been
following politics and elections, this is the most offensive campaigns
I've watched.  Offensive by both the Wellstone and Coleman campaigns
and their supporters.

I say "and their supporters" because you have to look rather closely to
see who is actually running the ad.  I guess that's how you keep a
straight face when you say you aren't running negative ads, someone
else does it on your behalf.  This campaign is such that even if one
were inclined to vote for one over the other, they might change their
mind.

Web surfing, I found the web site of a guy by the name of Jim Moore
http://www.mooreforsenate.com 
Moore on his issues page talks about campaigns, he says:  "Independent
issue ads should be banned. If the courts overturn this provision in
the recently passed McCain Feingold legislation, I would advocate
aggressive regulation of these ads. Groups should be required to run
ads evenly between election and non election periods. If their ads are
truly an effort to change public policy, they should be willing to do
so."

He says it even better on his opening page, he says; "Moneyed special
interests have stolen our voice, I want to steal it back"

Sunday's Strib had a long feature about groups putting big money into
politics.  The 2 biggest in Minnesota being The Freedom Club and the
teachers union.  They've got something in common, they are both in it
to get the most for themselves, the public be damned.  Same with the
groups that are pouring big bucks into the Coleman and Wellstone
campaigns.

So these 2 guys spend somewhere near $15 million each, that's nearly 7
times what a candidate for Governor can spend.  If I donate 50 bucks to
a candidate for Governor, the state will give me my 50 bucks back if I
send in a short form.  50 bucks from a million and a half voters would
give these guys nearly 10 times what they can legally spend.  Interest
isn't real high on the Governor's race.  People I'm talking with are
getting turned off on the Senate race.

I think I know who the "winner" is.  It's the television stations that
have sold all of their ad time from now until November 5th.  I think we
deserve better.



Terrell Brown
Minneapolis
terrell at terrellbrown dot org 

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[Mpls] Coleman vs Wellstone vs Moore

[Terrell Brown]

-Original Message-
From: Mike Dorn

I think it should be perfectly clear that if Norm Coleman is elected to
the senate, he will vote for whomever Bush/Cheney tells him to.  The
views of ordinary "nobody" Minnesotans like you and I have absolutely
nothing to do with it.


[TB]  I suppose one of the options to having one of the dozen or so
Senators who will follow the administrations instructions, is having a
Senator who will consistently vote with the dozen of so Senators on the
far left of any issue.  Both groups are far to marginalized to have
much effectiveness.

Living is this state since 1980 and for most of the time that I've been
following politics and elections, this is the most offensive campaigns
I've watched.  Offensive by both the Wellstone and Coleman campaigns
and their supporters.

I say "and their supporters" because you have to look rather closely to
see who is actually running the ad.  I guess that's how you keep a
straight face when you say you aren't running negative ads, someone
else does it on your behalf.  This campaign is such that even if one
were inclined to vote for one over the other, they might change their
mind.

Web surfing, I found the web site of a guy by the name of Jim Moore
http://www.mooreforsenate.com 
Moore on his issues page talks about campaigns, he says:  "Independent
issue ads should be banned. If the courts overturn this provision in
the recently passed McCain Feingold legislation, I would advocate
aggressive regulation of these ads. Groups should be required to run
ads evenly between election and non election periods. If their ads are
truly an effort to change public policy, they should be willing to do
so."

He says it even better on his opening page, he says; "Moneyed special
interests have stolen our voice, I want to steal it back"

Sunday's Strib had a long feature about groups putting big money into
politics.  The 2 biggest in Minnesota being The Freedom Club and the
teachers union.  They've got something in common, they are both in it
to get the most for themselves, the public be damned.  Same with the
groups that are pouring big bucks into the Coleman and Wellstone
campaigns.

So these 2 guys spend somewhere near $15 million each, that's nearly 7
times what a candidate for Governor can spend.  If I donate 50 bucks to
a candidate for Governor, the state will give me my 50 bucks back if I
send in a short form.  50 bucks from a million and a half voters would
give these guys nearly 10 times what they can legally spend.  Interest
isn't real high on the Governor's race.  People I'm talking with are
getting turned off on the Senate race.

I think I know who the "winner" is.  It's the television stations that
have sold all of their ad time from now until November 5th.  I think we
deserve better.



Terrell Brown
Minneapolis
terrell at terrellbrown dot org 

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[Mpls] Roosevelt library

[John Rocker]

Steve Brandt has a good article in today’s paper about
whether or not the new Roosevelt library should be part of
a mixed-use development.

 

http://www.startribune.com/stories/462/3324554.html

 

 

The city needs to increase its density along transit routes,
but what both sides of the argument appear to be missing is that the site is
almost one-half mile from the light rail stop at 38th and Hiawatha
-- and that is twice as far as what is considered standard “walking
distance” from the station. To take advantage of light-rail, the library
board and the MCDA should be looking for a mixed-use site as close as possible to
38th & Hiawatha, preferably within view of the station.  One
of the justifications for the cost of light-rail is that it spurs mixed-used,
transit-oriented development. A mixed-use library project is ideal within
walking distance of the station, but the proposed site is too far away to take
advantage of that.

 

John Rocker

Calhoun

 

Re: [Mpls] Fw: get to gether

[Susan Maricle]

I might even come to this. How far does your farthest
forum member travel? I'd be coming about 130 miles
from Bruno.

Susan Maricle
formerly of Folwell

suggestions: the coffee place at 44th and Penn, or
Lucille's Kitchen

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[Mpls] ? New Construction

[WizardMarks]

Does anyone know what's presumably going to be built on the corner of 
38th St. and Third Av.? Someone is in the process of moving three houses 
off the land.
WizardMarks, Central

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RE: [Mpls] Fw: get to gether

[Dooley, Bill]

If we go NordEast, how about the Modern Cafe? Excellent writeups. 

Bill Dooley
Kenny

-Original Message-
From: Jim MCGUIRE [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 12:51 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [Mpls] Fw: get to gether



Add me to this list of those who would vote against the Hard Rock.  Let's 
support local businesses.  As a transplanted south-sider (Kingfield) who now 
lives SE I'm afraid I don't have any suggestions for North side spots - any 
suggestions?  I'd be all for it.

Alternatively, I'd suggest maybe somewhere NorthEast.  Mayslack's comes to 
mind as a neighborhood spot, or getting closer to downtown there's the new 
Irish Pub Northeast (Keegan's, if I'm remembering the name correctly).

Jim McGuire
Como

Original Message Follows
From: "James E Jacobsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Mpls] Fw: get to gether
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 12:13:23 -0500

 I would participate in a list get together, even at the Hard
Rock, -if it don't costed me too much- and if it is on a workable night for
me, like a Tuesday thru Thursday but not the 2nd Thursday.
 James Jacobsen // Whittier


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Re: [Mpls] Fw: get to gether

[Barbara Lickness]

I like the idea of Keegan's. Too bad Delisi's isn't
open on Penn and Broadway anymore.

Barb Lickness
Whittier

=
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the 
world.  Indeed,
it's the only thing that ever has." -- Margaret Mead

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Re: [Mpls] Fw: get to gether

[Andy Driscoll]

anything with smoking is out for me, for what that's worth.

Andy Driscoll
Saint Paul
--
"He who knows the precepts by heart, but fails to practice them,
Is like unto one who lights a lamp and then shuts his eyes." --Nagarjuna

> From: "Jim MCGUIRE" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 12:51:16 -0500
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [Mpls] Fw: get to gether
> 
> 
> Add me to this list of those who would vote against the Hard Rock.  Let's
> support local businesses.  As a transplanted south-sider (Kingfield) who now
> lives SE I'm afraid I don't have any suggestions for North side spots - any
> suggestions?  I'd be all for it.
> 
> Alternatively, I'd suggest maybe somewhere NorthEast.  Mayslack's comes to
> mind as a neighborhood spot, or getting closer to downtown there's the new
> Irish Pub Northeast (Keegan's, if I'm remembering the name correctly).
> 
> Jim McGuire
> Como
> 
> Original Message Follows
> From: "James E Jacobsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: [Mpls] Fw: get to gether
> Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 12:13:23 -0500
> 
> I would participate in a list get together, even at the Hard
> Rock, -if it don't costed me too much- and if it is on a workable night for
> me, like a Tuesday thru Thursday but not the 2nd Thursday.
> James Jacobsen // Whittier
> 
> 
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Re: [Mpls] Fw: get to gether

[Jim MCGUIRE]

Add me to this list of those who would vote against the Hard Rock.  Let's 
support local businesses.  As a transplanted south-sider (Kingfield) who now 
lives SE I'm afraid I don't have any suggestions for North side spots - any 
suggestions?  I'd be all for it.

Alternatively, I'd suggest maybe somewhere NorthEast.  Mayslack's comes to 
mind as a neighborhood spot, or getting closer to downtown there's the new 
Irish Pub Northeast (Keegan's, if I'm remembering the name correctly).

Jim McGuire
Como

Original Message Follows
From: "James E Jacobsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Mpls] Fw: get to gether
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 12:13:23 -0500

 I would participate in a list get together, even at the Hard
Rock, -if it don't costed me too much- and if it is on a workable night for
me, like a Tuesday thru Thursday but not the 2nd Thursday.
 James Jacobsen // Whittier


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[Mpls] Fw: get to gether

[James E Jacobsen]

I would participate in a list get together, even at the Hard
Rock, -if it don't costed me too much- and if it is on a workable night for
me, like a Tuesday thru Thursday but not the 2nd Thursday.
James Jacobsen // Whittier


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Re: [Mpls] List Get Together

[Rosalind Nelson]

Bob Velez wrote:

> Hey Craig...any chance you can get us a spot on the Northside?  *WINK*
> 

I'd like to second Bob's idea.  Show some of us Southside chauvinists
what we're missing.

Rosalind Nelson
Bancroft
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[Mpls] Tests and Taxes

[Michael Atherton]

There are a couple of interesting education related
articles in the Tribune today.  New test scores
are out for 3rd and 5th grades.  Unfortunately
it doesn't appear that you can access scores by
city on the web, but these scores are in the
hardcopy edition.  Secondly, Minneapolis is
about to raise property taxes to make up for the
loss of state educational funding (not much of
a surprise), but it would be nice to see tests
scores and taxes go up together.

Minnesota school test scores show little change
http://www.startribune.com/stories/462/3323128.html

Minneapolis schools set 3.18% levy increase
http://www.startribune.com/stories/462/3324370.html

Michael Atherton
Prospect Park



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RE: [Mpls] List Get Together - Maybe E-BlockHead will cut us a deal

[Michael Hohmann]

I'd prefer a neighborhood spot rather than Hard Rock.. my two cents!

Michael Hohmann

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
> Craig Miller
> Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 10:23 AM
> To: Mpls Forum
> Subject: Re: [Mpls] List Get Together - Maybe E-BlockHead will cut us a
> deal
>
>
> I am in favor of the Hard Rock.  It costed us a lot.  It also costed, in
> part, the employment of SSB/Cherryhomes.
>
> Craig Miller
> Former Fultonite
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> - Original Message -
> From: "Victoria Heller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Mpls Forum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 8:10 AM
> Subject: [Mpls] List Get Together - Maybe E-BlockHead will cut us a deal
>
>
> > How about the Hard Rock?  McLaffurty should be accommodating.
> >
> > If we show our property tax statements, we eat and drink for free.
> >
> > Renters pay double (as always.)
> >
> > Vicky Heller
> > North Oaks
> >
> >
> >
> --
> --
> > 
> >
> >
> > ___
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> E-Democracy
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[Mpls] Traffic, Housing, War, and Democracy

[Jim Mork]

Barbara Lickness:

Nice history on the 1st Ave diversion.  I’d never
heard that before.

One small item that puzzles me.  Where does the
1st Ave traffic come from?  Is it people driving
East on Lake who turn onto 1st Avenue?  Is it
people who live south of Lake?  Is it both?  I
can’t see why anyone would get off 35W and take
1st Ave into downtown?  And I really can’t see
suburbanites taking that route in place of
freeways.  I sometimes went that way to get on
28th Street to drive west to my neighborhood. 
But just as often I would do that swerve on
Bryant or Harriet or some other disused street. 
So some of that neighborhood traffic is
Minneapolis residents going to other parts of the
city.  Just as people go through my neighborhood
to get to other parts.

Dave Stack:”I am a firm believer that natural
greenspace corridors and oases scattered
throughout the urban landscape enrich the lives
of the city's poor, as well as the better-off.
The poor probably benefit more because the local
neighborhoods are where they spend more of their
lives. The rich more often can afford to take
vacation trips, own lake cabins, and get out to
more distant natural areas. “

And when there is insufficient housing, they can
even SLEEP in those green spaces.  Minneapolis
already has more green spaces than most cities in
the land.  But it does not have enough living
spaces that a poor person can pay to live in.  I
think a strong consideration ought to be to
affordable housing over green spaces. If not,
don’t compalin when the homeless take over these
public spaces.  What other choice do they have?

Jim Young:” Realistically, I agree that cars are
here to stay but that doesn't mean that the
transportation system we've built in the past 50
years is what will work well in the next 50
years. We need to think about what life will be
like when the metro area has double the
population it does now and even more than double
the number of cars. “

Cars and mass transit can live together.  For
decades, I used buses with a car parked at home
for trips where mass transit wasn’t an option
(such as those involving moving bulky loads). 
But as Jim says, the end of the days where we
just assume we can jump in the car on a whim are
coming to an end.

Dyna Sluyter:” So what happens when our police
departments fleet of Crown Vics gets parked due
to lack of gasoline? Can we hack their engine
controls and run them on ethanol? If petroleum
diesel fuel becomes unavailable, can we get
enough soy diesel to power our snowplows this
winter?”

How about killing two birds with one stone. 
Switch the cop cars to natural gas or propane. 
They hav eto drive a LOT of miles, so the
reduction in pollutants would be a bonus.

James Jacobsen: If it is cool to say that the US
is bad for discussing and intending to defend
itself from 9/11 types, -our own city and yes the
mall -with lots of Minneapolitans always in the
Mall- a possible terrorist target- then it is at
least equally cool to say that the US -to avoid
the 9/11 type of massive destruction right here
in Minneapolis- is very good and appropriate to
do what the President and now the Congress is
talking about and moving ahead with reference
Iraq. 
The issue here is not Iraq, the terrorists, or
the war against them. The issue is democracy.”

So why don’t we attack China, North Korea,
and..Florida?  No, the issue is
Bush’s poll numbers and our habit of gobbling up
petroleum products.  This pattern is as old as
the USA.  The country is built on seized assets.

 
 








=
Jim Mork (Cooper Neighborhood)

Vote Wellstone!  One of the few people in Washington who'll stick his neck out for 
BOTH  the stockholders (combatting management fraud) AND the working 
people.
Why do corporations always love war?  Easy: They don't bleed and they don't 
pay.*

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Re: [Mpls] List Get Together - Maybe E-BlockHead will cut us a deal

[Craig Miller]

I am in favor of the Hard Rock.  It costed us a lot.  It also costed, in
part, the employment of SSB/Cherryhomes.

Craig Miller
Former Fultonite
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message -
From: "Victoria Heller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Mpls Forum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 8:10 AM
Subject: [Mpls] List Get Together - Maybe E-BlockHead will cut us a deal


> How about the Hard Rock?  McLaffurty should be accommodating.
>
> If we show our property tax statements, we eat and drink for free.
>
> Renters pay double (as always.)
>
> Vicky Heller
> North Oaks
>
>
> --
--
> 
>
>
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> Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy
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[Mpls] democracy

[James E Jacobsen]

  If it 
is cool to say that the US is bad for discussing and intending to 
defend itself from 9/11 types, -our own city and yes the mall -with lots of 
Minneapolitans always in the Mall- a possible terrorist target- then it is 
at least equally cool to say that the US -to avoid the 9/11 type 
of massive destruction right here in Minneapolis- is very good and appropriate 
to do what the President and now the Congress is talking about and moving ahead 
with reference Iraq.  
 The issue here is not 
Iraq, the terrorists, or the war against them.  The issue is 
democracy.  Yah, others have a right to their opinions, I didn't 
say otherwise, glad that they speak up and identify 
themselves.  
    
James Jacobsen // Whittier.  
  
 

[Mpls] Fw: democracy

[James E Jacobsen]

  If it is cool to say that the US is bad for discussing and intending
to defend itself from 9/11 types, -our own city and yes the mall -with lots
of Minneapolitans always in the Mall- a possible terrorist target- then it
is at least equally cool to say that the US -to avoid the 9/11 type of
massive destruction right here in Minneapolis- is very good and appropriate
to do what the President and now the Congress is talking about and moving
ahead with reference Iraq.
 The issue here is not Iraq, the terrorists, or the war against them.
The issue is democracy.  Yah, others have a right to their opinions, I
didn't say otherwise, glad that they speak up and identify themselves.
James Jacobsen // Whittier.




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[Mpls] Street Closure/Liquor store law suit/some history(long)

[PennBroKeith]

Reprinted from the West Broadway Area Coalition Archive. These thoughts may 
offer insight City wide in street closing, and opening:


 "traffic calming ", topic by Joe Biernat, Third Ward Council Member, October 
10, 2000 10:18 am CST
"Our office received a pettition by area residents to permantently close off 
James at W.Broadway. The history: I requested a temporary closing of this 
street in 1997 per the request of the block club. In 1999, at the request of 
the police, we opened the street. What is the position of the planners? the 
businesses? Keep in mind, with reconstruction of WBroadway next year, we can 
address this closing the right way (no ugly baricades)."
Submit Response 
 Keith Reitman/Broadway-Irving property owner and Broadway Business Block 
Club member, October 10, 2000 8:40 pm CST
"thanks for posing an interesting nuts and bolts question Joe. I remember the 
neighborhood desire to close the street and we've all observed the outcome 
over the past three years. James Av. north of Broadway is a divided street or 
parkway in as much as there is a "pocket" city park dividing the street. 
Traffic flows around this curving park on streets wide enough for two 
directional right-of-way on both sides. Should these two "streets" be made 
one way? Should we consider limiting but not eliminating access to Broadway 
as out-only or in-only? I have learned at Penn and Broadway that closing a 
street often means the adjacent alleys become streets (speedways). The 
Charrette system would be well applied here, but this issue is one small part 
of the planing that is needed for the area bounded roughly by G.V. Rd. to the 
South, West Bro. in the middle, and the knot of streets called tangle town 
above. Our neighborhood monies would be well spent developing a comprehensive 
plan, through a Charrette, for our area. I think that the "temporary" 
barriers all along West Bro. are like huge billboards. Each one says, "Middle 
class shoppers stay away, we have no plan". Lets develop our plan right away 
Joe. Also let it be known that the repaving of West Bro. is two years off to 
allow G.V. Rd. repaving next year."
Submit Response 
 
 Dean Rose, October 14, 2000 10:37 am CST
"I am deeply concerned about a recurring theme along West Broadway; using 
street closures to solve behavioral issues. I think we can all agree that 
drugs and prostitution on our streets is unacceptable behavior. However, to 
consider closing streets to control these types of activities is not 
appropriate. Are we resigned to throw up our arms and admit we cannot control 
our streets? Are we saying the only way to deal with these disturbing issues 
is to close streets? I encourage our City Council members to resist using 
street closures as the answer to dealing with issues of crime! Residents, 
businesses, and property owners need to work together with our police to 
solve these issues; traffic engineering should not be equated with social 
engineering."
Submit Response 
 Keith Reitman/World headquarters Penn/Bro, October 16, 2000 12:52 am CST
"I believe it is reasonable to regulate traffic for the common good. The 
difficulty is defining and balancing what is good. As an example, I have been 
pleased with the closure of the alley west of Penn av. at the 2300 block 
(south of Penn/Broad.) where it had opened onto McNare av. Human nature being 
what it is, liquor store patrons had used the alley as the quickest way to 
the liquor store parking lot. This caused a disruptive and dangerous 
situation for residents on either side of the alley. Fact: The closure calmed 
the alley. The existing grid of streets, alleys, and property lines is the 
result of much unsynchronized evolution to a grid that probably started out 
as dinosaur paths, or more seriously, trails and roads for horses and 
oxcarts, model A and Model T cars, even trolleys. More contentious to define 
is the "common good" of closing McNare av. south of Penn/Bro. at Queen(half a 
block west of the above mentioned alley). To the good, it allows the 
normative situation of a busy commercial business's motor traffic going to 
and from the business on a main traffic artery, Broadway, rather than snaking 
up and down the back streets. To the bad, it has limited the potential number 
of vehicles that can physically GET TO THE STORE, hurting business I'm sure, 
and limiting potential. This is not good, but it is common. Once again, the 
best way to gain the common good is with a comprehensive plan, honestly and 
quickly evolved thru the Charrette Process. I explain what comprehensive 
means to me at PODIUM SITE #'s 5, and 7, please scroll thru and make 
comments."
Submit Response 
 Dean Rose, October 17, 2000 12:34 am CST
"Fact: Street or alley closures result in the elimination of traffic!

I believe there is common ground to walk upon when dealing with this issue. 
The interests of property owners, business owners, residents, and other 
associated interests can forge ahead to find res

[Mpls] List Get Together - Maybe E-BlockHead will cut us a deal

[Victoria Heller]

How about the Hard Rock?  McLaffurty should be accommodating.

If we show our property tax statements, we eat and drink for free.

Renters pay double (as always.)

Vicky Heller
North Oaks






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[Mpls] The Jordan Shuffle (City Pages Article)

[Shawn Lewis]

The Jordan Shuffle 
 
The city plays politics with police/minority relations

by G.R. Anderson Jr.

Four hours into the Minneapolis City Council 
meeting on September 13, what had been a 
tedious affair suddenly erupted into a 
shouting match. The gallery began heckling 
the 13 council members as they squabbled 
over whether to call in a federal mediator 
to lead meetings between black residents 
and the Minneapolis Police Department.

http://www.citypages.com/databank/23/1138/article10727.asp
Shawn Lewis, Field Neighborhood

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[Mpls] City Pages on federal mediation debate

[List Manager]

Schiff v. Lilligren; both councilmembers say they are moving federal
mediation on police-community relations forward.

http://www.citypages.com/databank/23/1138/article10727.asp

David Brauer
List manager

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[Mpls] Mpls neighborhoods question Vikes stadium haste

[List Manager]

Writes City Pages' Mike Mosedale, "...critics.. say a headlong rush to
forge an alliance between the U and the Vikings will come at the expense
of the neighborhoods most likely affected by the construction of the
stadium. "It just seems egregious that this will be the largest building
ever constructed on the university campus, and they've only got six
months to put it together, and it just came out of this little addendum
on the Twins bill," says Suzie Overlie, a coordinator with the Southeast
Como Neighborhood Improvement Association.

http://www.citypages.com/databank/23/1138/article10728.asp

David Brauer
List manager

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RE: [Mpls] Iraq problem

[David Brauer]

James writes:

> I noticed the downtown high rises mostly had their decorative
lights off
> for a few nights around 9/11.   This wasn't to save electricity.   The
Anti
> Americans -and anti Minneapolitans- on the list are identifying
themselves.
>James Jacobsen // Whittier

I think it's really wrong to call any Minneapolitan anti-American for
opposing the war, especially those on this list.

Dissent is as American as apple pie, even if it sticks in a few more
people's craws.

Such rigid rhetoric will only distract from a real discussion of the
issues. And by the way, let's please remember that the war is not a
subject for debate here, only its Minneapolis effects. If war talk pulls
us apart and makes us forget we all strive for a better community,
whatever our opinions, that's a terrible thing.

David Brauer
King Field

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[Mpls] Iraq problem

[James E Jacobsen]

I noticed the downtown high rises mostly had their decorative lights off
for a few nights around 9/11.   This wasn't to save electricity.   The Anti
Americans -and anti Minneapolitans- on the list are identifying themselves.
   James Jacobsen // Whittier


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Re: [Mpls] re:Local implications of war on Iraq

[dyna]

Title: Re: [Mpls] re:Local implications of war on
Iraq


    Thanks
Robert and Lydia for highlighting some of the Minneapolis implications
of Dubya's attempt to revive his dad's failed war with Iraq.

    With
the first shot yet to be fired, the price of regular gas rose by 16
cents a gallon at my neighborhood station yesterday. Diesel fuel
remains at $1.39 a gallon most everywhere. This is probably a
reflection of diesel fuels industrial user base with relatively large
storage tanks that tends to stabilize the price of diesel fuel.

    $1.52 a
gallon is not quite energy crisis material. However, with the war from
2 to 6 weeks away their are still plenty more opportunities for price
increases. So $2 a gallon or more at the consumer level for a gallon
of gasoline is not beyond the realm of near term possibility. Of
course the fuel our city buys is exempt from fuel taxes, so take about
40 cents or so off the price we consumers pay. This means a price rise
affects the city much more than us consumers.

    This
assumes that we can get fuel. Historically, when fuel prices start to
rise speculators start to withhold fuel from the market. And while
little or no Iraqi oil makes it's way to Minneapolis, other countries
are customers for Iraq's production. If that supply is blocked those
countries will be competing with Minneapolis for fuel. Throw into this
volatile economic mix the possibility of oil production or transport
capacity being damaged in the war... the dilemma then becomes not one
of price, but whether or not petroleum based fuels can be bought at
any price.

    So what
happens when our police departments fleet of Crown Vics gets parked
due to lack of gasoline? Can we hack their engine controls and run
them on ethanol? If petroleum diesel fuel becomes unavailable, can we
get enough soy diesel to power our snowplows this winter?

   
watching the diesel prices in Hawthorne,

   
    Dyna
Sluyter

    

     

     

In a message
dated 9/24/2002 6:35:45 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

"emergency personnell" had
a bomb threat drill at the Mall of America,saying it was a
"possible
terrorism target". If Mr. Bush gets his war on Iraq,that may
become
reality,as I feel such a war will make Americans far more vulnerable
to
terrorist attacks.




Lydia,

There is much truth in the words you speak. Mr. Bush has establisjed a
dangerous precedent in his call to oust Saddam based on perceived
peril. He himself has now assumed this very same caricature around the
world. It is time for cooler heads to prevail: this mad rush to
carnage is just as savage, if not more, than the peril he envisions.
It will definitely cause loss and suffering of human life, animal and
plant life, therefore it is of no value to humanity today.

War is hell, said Harry, and he was right. War for the sake of war is
ludicrous. Unfortunately the lives of many will be wasted in the
process, and for generations to come. For those who think such thought
un-American, ever consider why America is under attack?? Is it
fathomable  that people summarily wake up on a given morning and
decide to hate Americans?? It is time to shift posture and see the
world as fellow citizens of the planet, not just so much fodder to
unleash your spoils and take advantage of. Our strength should dictate
that we assist others to reach for excellence, allied against anything
negative , or threatening, to the progress of humanity. After all, our
strength is in our diversity.

Robert
Anderson
IP Candidate
for the House
Field-Regina


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Re: [Mpls] List Get Together

[Barbara Lickness]

Just talked to Pam Taylor. She is due in town from Oct. 4th - 8th. Somewhere between there might work.
Barb Lickness/Whittier"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world.  Indeed,it's the only thing that ever has." -- Margaret MeadDo you Yahoo!?
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