Re: [music-dsp] A rephrasing of some of my sampling theory related concerns

2013-11-15 Thread Theo Verelst
A few historically relevant contributions to solving network equations, and some related physical/mechanical excercises Keep in mind when "simulating" linear, time-invariant electrical networks, that it can be proven that the equations coming from the MNA method are the actual differential equ

Re: [music-dsp] A rephrasing of some of my sampling theory related concerns

2013-11-13 Thread Lubomir I. Ivanov
On 13 November 2013 19:24, Richard Dobson wrote: > But Theo, music-dsp is not a university list. There is no reason at all to > expect/assume that anyone has any particular qualification, nor even a > "relevant" one. People are doing things here for love of the subject, not > for grade points. The

Re: [music-dsp] A rephrasing of some of my sampling theory related concerns

2013-11-13 Thread Dave Gamble
+1 Richard. Also, speaking for myself, don't mistake my levity for irreverence. Dave. On Wed, Nov 13, 2013 at 5:24 PM, Richard Dobson < richarddob...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote: > But Theo, music-dsp is not a university list. There is no reason at all to > expect/assume that anyone has any partic

Re: [music-dsp] A rephrasing of some of my sampling theory related concerns

2013-11-13 Thread Richard Dobson
But Theo, music-dsp is not a university list. There is no reason at all to expect/assume that anyone has any particular qualification, nor even a "relevant" one. People are doing things here for love of the subject, not for grade points. They like reading the discussions, even (or perhaps espec

Re: [music-dsp] A rephrasing of some of my sampling theory related concerns

2013-11-13 Thread Theo Verelst
I must say that where I received my (at the time) top level education, the PhD's had much higher standards concerning human modesty and theoretical respect. Probably that is because at the technical university one is supposed to decent work, and pass, say, the sophomore year (of EE in my case) be

Re: [music-dsp] A rephrasing of some of my sampling theory related concerns

2013-11-12 Thread Dave Gamble
See what happens when you start with the puns? I just lost a good half hour trying to work out how Cauchy's Integral Theorem follows from Green's Theorem in the Plane. Because I wanted to make a pun using the word Green. I'm so sorry. Dave. On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 5:27 PM, Dave Gamble wrote:

Re: [music-dsp] A rephrasing of some of my sampling theory related concerns

2013-11-12 Thread Dave Gamble
On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 5:22 PM, vadim.zavalishin < vadim.zavalis...@native-instruments.de> wrote: > On Tue, 12 Nov 2013 17:10:15 +, Dave Gamble wrote: > >> As soon as I see a >> pole in the transfer function, I yell "FEEDBACK" and run around the room >> waving my arms. ;) >> > > In doing this

Re: [music-dsp] A rephrasing of some of my sampling theory related concerns

2013-11-12 Thread Dave Gamble
On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 5:10 PM, vadim.zavalishin < vadim.zavalis...@native-instruments.de> wrote: > > > PS. One real problem which the discussed discretization schemes do not > solve is the aliasing through nonlinearities present in the filter, of > course. > > > One step at a time :) The ZDF stu

Re: [music-dsp] A rephrasing of some of my sampling theory related concerns

2013-11-12 Thread vadim.zavalishin
On Tue, 12 Nov 2013 17:10:15 +, Dave Gamble wrote: As soon as I see a pole in the transfer function, I yell "FEEDBACK" and run around the room waving my arms. ;) In doing this, are you trying to compute the residue at the pole by using the Cauchy integral formula? Sorry, couldn't resist t

Re: [music-dsp] A rephrasing of some of my sampling theory related concerns

2013-11-12 Thread vadim.zavalishin
On Tue, 12 Nov 2013 17:54:49 +0100, Theo Verelst wrote: To me, that is for instance why it all sounds so horribly distorted, so, in the phase of the advent of new Electronics with New (better) Converters, its spells out the **essence** of my comments, so there you go. "All" is one too strong

Re: [music-dsp] A rephrasing of some of my sampling theory related concerns

2013-11-12 Thread vadim.zavalishin
On Tue, 12 Nov 2013 17:54:49 +0100, Theo Verelst wrote: vadim.zavalishin wrote: I'm not sure this question has very large practical significance within music DSP context (although I can admit that sometimes it can have one). Most of the time you are concerned just with the frequency response of

Re: [music-dsp] A rephrasing of some of my sampling theory related concerns

2013-11-12 Thread Dave Gamble
On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 4:56 PM, Theo Verelst wrote: > Dave Gamble wrote: > >> On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 4:48 PM, vadim.zavalishin < >> vadim.zavalis...@native-instruments.de> wrote: >> >> >>> PS. Speaking of EE, I believe this "simple" RC filter *does* have >>> feedback, from the capacitor's volta

Re: [music-dsp] A rephrasing of some of my sampling theory related concerns

2013-11-12 Thread Dave Gamble
Heya, On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 4:54 PM, Theo Verelst wrote: > vadim.zavalishin wrote: > >> On Tue, 12 Nov 2013 16:56:27 +0100, Theo Verelst wrote: >> >>> >>> Anyone want to explain to me what their most or least favorite >>> implementation >>> of thus simple, single order filter without feedback

Re: [music-dsp] A rephrasing of some of my sampling theory related concerns

2013-11-12 Thread Dave Gamble
Hi, On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 4:52 PM, Theo Verelst wrote: > Dave Gamble wrote: > >> On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 3:56 PM, Theo Verelst >> wrote: >> >> >Suppose . >>> >> >> >So lets take the "equivalent" of this simple filter in the digital >>> domain >>> >(e.g. as function of a z^-1 network, and

Re: [music-dsp] A rephrasing of some of my sampling theory related concerns

2013-11-12 Thread Theo Verelst
Dave Gamble wrote: On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 4:48 PM, vadim.zavalishin < vadim.zavalis...@native-instruments.de> wrote: PS. Speaking of EE, I believe this "simple" RC filter *does* have feedback, from the capacitor's voltage via the resistor's voltage to the capacitor's charging current. Which i

Re: [music-dsp] A rephrasing of some of my sampling theory related concerns

2013-11-12 Thread Theo Verelst
vadim.zavalishin wrote: On Tue, 12 Nov 2013 16:56:27 +0100, Theo Verelst wrote: Anyone want to explain to me what their most or least favorite implementation of thus simple, single order filter without feedback in the digital domain will do when we feed it with an impulse, a shifted step (occur

Re: [music-dsp] A rephrasing of some of my sampling theory related concerns

2013-11-12 Thread Dave Gamble
On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 4:48 PM, vadim.zavalishin < vadim.zavalis...@native-instruments.de> wrote: > > PS. Speaking of EE, I believe this "simple" RC filter *does* have > feedback, from the capacitor's voltage via the resistor's voltage to the > capacitor's charging current. Which is also immediat

Re: [music-dsp] A rephrasing of some of my sampling theory related concerns

2013-11-12 Thread Theo Verelst
Dave Gamble wrote: On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 3:56 PM, Theo Verelst wrote: >Suppose . >So lets take the "equivalent" of this simple filter in the digital domain >(e.g. as function of a z^-1 network, and see what happens. > >Well, there's obviously no direct "equivalent". It comes down to the

Re: [music-dsp] A rephrasing of some of my sampling theory related concerns

2013-11-12 Thread vadim.zavalishin
On Tue, 12 Nov 2013 16:56:27 +0100, Theo Verelst wrote: Anyone want to explain to me what their most or least favorite implementation of thus simple, single order filter without feedback in the digital domain will do when we feed it with an impulse, a shifted step (occurring between samples),

Re: [music-dsp] A rephrasing of some of my sampling theory related concerns

2013-11-12 Thread Dave Gamble
Hi, I'm going to have a go at answering, but there will be points where I'm not sure exactly what you're saying. I'll be as clear as possible and request clarification. On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 3:56 PM, Theo Verelst wrote: > Suppose we take a simple 1st order low-pass (or high-pass) filter in t

[music-dsp] A rephrasing of some of my sampling theory related concerns

2013-11-12 Thread Theo Verelst
Suppose we take a simple 1st order low-pass (or high-pass) filter in the digital domain, and compare it with the corresponding electronic implementation, preferably as a network theory example, ignoring electro-magnetics, Johnson noise, and physical delay of currents through wires, which are re