of the week and months of the year,
as well as (some) pronouns and various other things that aren't in
most languages.
A little precision is easier in the long term:
Perhaps Capitalize the first word of a sentence and the names of
people or places.
// Lauri Watts
On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 12:25 PM, Ryan Torchia anarchyr...@gmail.com wrote:
2011/7/16 Nicolás Tamargo de Eguren reosare...@gmail.com
That still a common scenario, and the position that the featured artist
might not deserve equal credit is absolutely correct in many cases.
One would think
allowed, but we clearly allow unauthorized remixes?
Has there been some court decision that this is fine?
I highly doubt it. If there is one, I'd like to see it, and in what
jurisdiction it happened.
MB really can not afford to be linked to piracy.
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the nitpickers jump me, I am not talking about normalising
work names, I am talking about
deciding who the artist is. We shouldn't be deciding that, we should
be recording it, just like we do
everywhere else)
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On Sun, May 22, 2011 at 11:23 PM, Dr Andrew John Hughes
gnu_and...@member.fsf.org wrote:
On 22 May 2011 21:29, Kuno Woudt k...@frob.nl wrote:
A major fault I see with it straight away is it only considers
releases by the artist (and thus I assume is based on the implication
that the
on the cover, that's the one that gets
used for the release artist.
Individual tracks on the album though, are credited to the correct artists.
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On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 9:47 PM, lorenz pressler l...@gmx.at wrote:
Lauri Watts wrote:
Enough they got their name on the cover.
http://musicbrainz.1054305.n4.nabble.com/file/n3539408/bravohits37.jpg
http://imageshack.us/m/703/1612/bravohits37.jpg
i would hate to see 7 or more artists
?
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. He could as well have called it
Humming the Bassline (Butterflies are pretty remix) but
it would still be Deavid Soul remixing.
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if you're interested (ones that
explain it a bit more clearly than I just did :)
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. But then, I don't think something that is for sale is a
demo either (but a lot of self-released CD-R's are), and apparently
metaldom does tend to use 'demo' where most other genres would call it
a promo. Which only confuses things even further.
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release, then it is one.
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' as a performed instrument, this will never be in the
instrument tree, but since the person with that credit is actually
rather famous and their appearance is quite notable, an AR for 'other
instruments' is more valuable than not having it at all.
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of the world.
So I could see:
Wind Instruments (or: Woodwinds)
Strings
Percussion
(and Brass)
(and all the stuff we have that your average orchestra would have to
ponder where to sit them)
That pesky English grammar and all that.
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(and now, not even then)
Does everyone agree that adding 'distinct' gives enhanced value? It
just makes it wordier for me, a continual problem with the MB docs,
but whatever the crowd thinks.
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of this kind of formatting
(or we wouldn't do it in the first place.) Having an apparent
exception for 'subtitles that are written on the same line' makes
little sense, and is probably just historical.
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to every fan page in existence, or every copy of a
discography, and we don't automatically add links to every online store a CD
is available at, even though multiple of each of these exist. We pick and
choose 'the good ones'.
Anyway, I'm really really not interested in more arguing.
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wikipedia links don't put those edits
up to vote.
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by and if it's his chosen
tilltalsnamn in the svenska folkbok, it's his actual legal name too,
there is no use to anyone having it as anything but an alias.
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2008/4/4 Brian Schweitzer [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Again, please show me this guideline. The two excepts you cited did
not indicate this in any way.
I did. It said, use the most often credited name (which is always Magnus Uggla,
other than when he uses Bobbo Viking.)
Ok, and the other? What
were so insanely
nonsensical I was grasping at straws as to why anyone would think
Magnus Uggla's name is anything but Magnus.
Of course, you are right though, not using all your names is the norm,
which is why it's in the guidelines.
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On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 11:22 AM, symphonick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
2008/4/3, Philip Jägenstedt [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
What you want seems more like a legal name field, which we don't have.
Until there is a legal name field or an artist name variation system
similar to that of discogs I
'the middle ones',
this is the case that applies to Magnus Uggla, and is quite normal in
Sweden.
If you want to change the guideline, post an RFC, but _that_ one just
passed RFV not even a month ago, without opposition, so I really don't
see the point.
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absolutely sure two entries are for the same person, merge
away. Don't forget to
explain things though. Magnus for Mange is non-obvious to an English
speaker, but then
William for Bill is not obvious to most non-native English speakers too.
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with it ;)
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in MB
for every variation, and split the discographies across them.
This has nothing to do with verbosity, just some common sense, surely.
Which is exactly what the guideline says, and since you aren't
proposing a new one I suggest we just stick to it.
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are
included as two separate cd's, as an explicit example of something
that is a bundle.
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On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 10:55 AM, Frederic Da Vitoria
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Mon, Mar 24, 2008 at 10:46 PM, Lauri Watts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Sometimes it
makes no sense to use any single title style on those, but sometimes
the contents get new cover art, or disc number
with that. But you will never convince me
that adding an extra 10 releases, or even 140 more, to Bach's page is
going to be a material difference either way in the clutter stakes.
But that's a UI issue anyway, and should be solved in the UI, not by
outlawing perfectly good releases.
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Lauri
here.
So yeah, in an ideal world you're entirely right Frederic, no doubt
about it. But in this imperfect one, we do the best we can with the
tools at our disposal. And NGS is our path to 'less imperfect' at
the very least.
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On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 8:32 PM, Lauri Watts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
... yes, I'm aware I can't count tonight, no need to point it out :)
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more valid.
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art, or disc number designations they
didn't originally have, and in those cases, I don't see what the big
problem is in having duplicating them, so both sides get what they
want.
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the packaging.
I am pretty sure we could dig through the DB and come up with plenty
of times when all three choices have been made, because it's currently
a bit non-obvious, and all three might make sense, at the time,
depending somewhat on context.
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On Mon, Mar 24, 2008 at 11:12 PM, Chris B [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 24/03/2008, Lauri Watts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Mon, Mar 24, 2008 at 10:33 PM, Chris B [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
i think an entire new language is more valid than marketing info :) i
mean, if you have
artists that
I didn't discover until a while after I moved here. Once I did discover them
the easiest way to get hold of their back catalogue was to buy the box sets,
and they seem to all have titles :)
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ultimately, if it makes sense to keep the separated, any attempt to
merge
a track that
isn't even on the album, and put it right in the middle of the album,
offsetting the second half of the tracklist by one song, and messing
up the titles of some of the others..
Our tracklisting is accurate against the actual content of the album, however.
--
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are quite different in content
to the originals.)
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want to either explicitly allow it's use or
replace it with a similar AR only
for bands.
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, that they're on different pages now is something that
maybe could be fixed/handled in the SOC rewrite, if not waiting until
NGS actually gets here. But only if they're related somehow in the
first place.
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*sigh* replying to myself yet again.
Discussion is also ongoing at this edit:
http://musicbrainz.org/show/edit/?editid=8499030
where Kerensky raises most of the same points.
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during their active career (The 'Bryan Ferry and Roxy Music' problem),
only those that actually affect albums released by the band during
their recording career.
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them separate now, but AR'ed, users could still follow the trail,
albeit not as easily as if they were all on one page, and we aren't
setting up yet another pile of rather tedious work once NGS is
available.
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, band lineups are often fluid
between albums anyway.
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compilations
tend to invent bazillions of name combinations that never actually
existed. Those should still be merged out of existence, this AR
should only be for _real_ band name changes.
Hopefully that's clearer than my first attempt.
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anyway. Essentially it would be more useful if creating the lists is
work that doesn't need to be done over again when NGS is nearer,
either by you or by people maintaining lists, and you obviously have
the clearest idea of how to achieve that.
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information comes along, and if I
can't tell, or don't know, 'performed' is better than nothing, and
'performed vocal' is better yet again.
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that up (it
already does from the track titles, with the appropriate plugin.)
I've never seen anyone arguing about the guest attribute though (and
we certainly like to argue about things around here.)
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Sol,
and they know nothing about either
and us being impatient with them getting the details wrong when they
enter them in MB is not
really helping that.
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On Fri, Feb 29, 2008 at 10:29 AM, Olivier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
2008/2/29, Lauri Watts [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Any thoughts on using or rather adapting one of the moin styles that drop
the ToC into a right floated div? They actually look pretty good.
http://moinmo.in/ThemeMarket/Monomoin
Olivier, Lord of the
Wiki) think of making WikiNameTalk or WikiNameDiscussion pages more
common, and getting the talk stuff out of there?
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they are
meaningless mumbo jumbo. And there's a whole spectrum in between.
Useless is as useless does.
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. But not
ever, ever, because
it's got bad punctuation. Sadly, that isn't the situation just now.
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On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 6:20 PM, Brian Schweitzer
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
And the track title is? If it's listed on the liner as
Bach (sonata Nr 1 G-moll Bwv 1001 Presto)
you seriously would argue that that is exactly how we ought to enter
In the context of a movie soundtrack, why not?
and explain why.
I think voting no without doing so is elitist and unfair, especially
when said no votes are not even accompanied with a comment. It's a
bully tactic, and has no place here.
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on work lists shows that we care about
correct or the most correct titles and consistency.
I suggest you read Lukz post again. Twice, if necessary.
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, or is it partly that people who are put off by all that
detail, do not edit CSG (and probably don't use MB for their classical
music because of it)
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' will fit.
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, and say This applies equally much here, and here's my
original sources to show you: and provide url's to back up the
Consistent Data point.
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that you need to provide
some evidence for ConsistentOriginalData (ideally in the
^^ s/ConsistentOriginalData/ConsistentOfficialData
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a works title list anyway. So it's very
valuable work, just with a longer time to payoff.
And accept that just because you find A, B, C and D useless, doesn't
mean that any or all of our _consumers_ find it so.
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, and rethink that position.
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that came to mind first, and I don't
have a lot of time to write this.
[2] Do we still have all those Madonna's in the db? I daren't look,
but I know we have had (and a Madonna Penn :) in the past. In any
case, this also covers adding people just to fill out a family tree.
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On Feb 18, 2008 3:48 PM, Kuno Woudt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Mon, Feb 18, 2008 at 09:41:04AM +0100, Lauri Watts wrote:
On Feb 18, 2008 2:50 AM, Jim DeLaHunt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The change is already the noted JapaneseArtistsException page. The
text there has been in place
of me remember who it was. It was certainly one of those old
bluesmen, that much I can remember.
Hopefully that is a better example (and now that you hopefully know
what I meant, you can think of an even more obvious one :)
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On Feb 18, 2008 7:09 PM, Lauri Watts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Feb 18, 2008 5:54 PM, Olivier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
* nicknames that normally are not used standalone (Lowell Sly Dunbar
[1])
Lauri, I added your three first, but am not too sure I get a grasp on
the last one - can
, not to the AR.
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changing the track titles.
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the obvious.
I'd rather put a stop to this already. Or if you really insist, make
a list of all the pages this 'needs' to be stated on, and do one RFC
for the lot, and make it a wiki include (macro, whatever moin calls
them) with a short statement.
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need different wording, take just those separately. I bet
the majority of pages could be neatly covered by a single sentence
included in each though.
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of like how a track
that isn't a remix doesn't have anyone to make a remixer AR to.
It's just not relevant, or important, and I totally fail to see your
point even mentioning it.
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On Feb 9, 2008 7:44 PM, Brian Schweitzer
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
(withdrawing this RFC btw)
, yet still lets us document
the interesting bits about who owned who
We hit it.
That's interesting, but for either annotations or a financial database
(which we are not)...
If so, why do
are effectively always referred to as such.
It should also of course be stored in an AR. And if the artist is
guesting but not
featured, that should also be in an AR. But if they are featured on
the cover,
they should be featured in the title.
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pretty easy on a Mac: Option + :).
http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/MiscellaneousGuideline?highlight=%28ellipsis%29
Do read all the way down, and excuse me for finding the final comment on the
page to be slightly ironic.
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On Jan 29, 2008 2:49 PM, Brian Schweitzer
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The CSG is already terrifying. I do not see this particular change
improving that situation, and it doesn't make sense to me, and I do
understand now that you completely fail to see my point, so I'll just
let it go.
MB track titles either makes sense, or is easier.
And nobody has posted any kind of sensible reason why this character
(that we don't already use) is the best or only solution to the
problem.
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already. CSG is so hard, even classically able editors
don't always like to touch it. This is just one more thing likely to
frustrate people into not even trying.
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CSG has?
MB is hard already. CSG is so hard, even classically able editors
don't always like to touch it. This is just one more thing likely to
frustrate people into not even trying.
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Quite honestly? No, I don't worry about this.
#1, the whole point is that master lists
On Jan 29, 2008 12:12 AM, Brian Schweitzer
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
So, if we're going to re-write CSG to handle
all the issues it currently has, why not rewrite it so we don't end up
with correct text, correctly capitalized, but squeezed between
incorrect typograpy from the 1960's that's
attributes, that's a different
issue.
On that note, even non classical could conceivably use a 'vocal
language' to capture what language tracks are sung in, because english
titles on non-english songs, to name one case, is very common.
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[no
label], in the end that's what they are, and label aliases would go a
long way towards getting things filed in the right place.
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it, or these will all end up under [unknown] anyway, and we already established
people aren't too comfortable with unknown.
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out of doing enough research to know exactly which tracks the AR
describes.
True, but there is only so much we can do about that anyway. I guess
people that lazy aren't actually adding AR's at all, so our chances
here are pretty good.
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to pick one, and document it _clearly_. I don't
understand why everyone is so against writing down clear rules, when
not doing so results in all this ambiguity.
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discogs recommendation for
non-existent cat # (eg: using none if there are no cat # either)?
As long as that one's also made really clear what it means (ie, that
it was researched and there _is_ no catalog number, not I can't be
bothered finding my cd cover so i'll just put none here.)
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, but there never is.
It's also helpful to not assume people hate you if they disagree. We
don't. And none of this is targeted at anyone in particular,
including the author of the post I'm replying to, it's just
generalities.
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On Jan 3, 2008 6:44 PM, Chris B [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 03/01/2008, Lauri Watts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Jan 3, 2008 5:33 PM, Bram van Dijk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
* I do presume that _because_ AR's are being propagated, anything that
is specifically AR'ed has had a higher
.
Type 3) Some ARs can apply at either level - photography, liner
notes, production, etc.
That crashing noise was the sky falling after Brian and I just came to
almost exactly the same conclusions.
So +1 what he said above.
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' and would be
meaningless if applied to tracks.
The 'put it on release level if we're not sure' makes little sense to
me, I would prefer to see that kind of information in annotations.
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, instrumental and vocal AR's should only be entered if they
do in fact apply to every track on the release. Not opening up and
tacitly encouraging sloppy data entry, just because it's hard to do it
right.
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On Jan 2, 2008 1:38 PM, Chris B [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 02/01/2008, Lauri Watts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
yet again something i asked for 6 months ago comes again :) i shall bump it...
Not sure what you meant here, it's entirely possible to enter all
these credits (even down to per-track
be
foolish to claim so, and so I do not. Which is the point really; They
oughtn't to be auto-propagated, rather it's one more chance for me to
check over a whole lot of data.
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research cosmic' is a different ball game.
There's a precedent for handling it that way, with Cassetteboy, even
though that's a slightly different situation and it works well there.
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, which of the various guest vocalists is doing which
bit anyway, and I think this would help clarify.
I've got a few corner cases that I'd be throwing your way to figure
out the right AR though Arty :)
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On 7/26/07, Kuno Woudt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Wed, Jul 25, 2007 at 04:54:00PM +0200, MLL wrote:
Now, if (like I guess so far), you don't believe the release language
is interesting in any way, why bother with this RFC anyhow?
No, I believe nothing, but I'm eager to sort out what this
think the former the
better terminology, but I'm willing to go with the latter if it gets this
through. :)
I, too, prefer Verified/Unverified to Voted/Unvoted. Just for the
record.
I strongly prefer voted/unvoted to verified/unverfiied.
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a beginning editor over the knuckles with a wooden ruler. So
that example is probably a bit long, but I know which one I would
rather get, if I was a beginner and unsure of what I was doing.
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in
the interface, only ensures more noise and errors get in. I don't
know really is the best choice, for a lot of people. That's why it's
in the list.
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