Re: Attn Access ISPs - FCC BB Labels (machine-readable standards)

[Josh Luthman]

I appreciate your effort in making a tool!

This is another tool: https://bblmaker.com/ - I like it because I have one
CSS file and then a few content pages for the plans.

Just FYI the Oct 10 deadline is for 100k or less subscribers.  April 10 for
100k+.

On Thu, Apr 11, 2024 at 9:08 AM Livingood, Jason via NANOG 
wrote:

> Yesterday the FCC broadband label order is in effect – so all ISPs need to
> publish them. Oct 10, 2024 is the deadline to produce machine-readable BB
> labels. I have kicked off an effort via the BITAG to standardize the
> format of these labels. See https://github.com/jlivingood/Broadband-Labels
> 
>  for some initial ideas.
>
>
>
> If you’d like to participate – because you are an ISP publishing labels or
> an org/researcher that will be importing/consuming/comparing labels – you
> may wish to participate. There’s no fee or docs to sign to do so, and your
> participation does noy convey endorsement of the final work product. IF
> INTERESTED – email me off-list and I will provide details.
>
>
>
> Thanks!
> Jason
>
>
>

Re: Unimus as NCM (Network Configuration Management) Tool

[Josh Luthman]

We've used Unimus exclusively since 2018.  It's absolutely wonderful for
NCM.

On Wed, Apr 3, 2024 at 5:20 PM Shahid Shafi  wrote:

> Hi Network Experts,
>
> Is anyone using Unimus as your main NCM tool in production? I am looking
> at an NCM tool that can scale upto 10,000 to 15,000 Network Devices. Do you
> recommend any other solution? The solution should atleast able to support
> network config backups, diffs, and basic network auditing features.
>
> https://unimus.net/
>
> thanks
> Shahid
>

Re: Without further comment:

[Josh Luthman]

Don't assume my gender.  You'll offend me.

That's a lot of manual work lol...

On Sat, Mar 30, 2024, 11:22 AM William Herrin  wrote:

> On Sat, Mar 30, 2024 at 7:38 AM Josh Luthman
>  wrote:
> > How do you know the poster's gender??
>
> Howdy,
>
> As Josh is an uncommon female name, I'm going to play the odds and say
> that like Bill and I, you're male. Am I mistaken?
>
> Regards.
> Bill Herrin
>
>
>
> --
> William Herrin
> b...@herrin.us
> https://bill.herrin.us/
>

Re: Without further comment:

[Josh Luthman]

How do you know the poster's gender??

On Sat, Mar 30, 2024 at 7:26 AM Bill Woodcock  wrote:

>
> https://pleroma.pch.net/media/59934e723985a9d0eb476eda11ca090f602091190d11d181c5d0dd7523755768.png
>
> -Bill
>
>

Re: Federal subsidy boosting internet affordability set to expire unless Congress acts | PBS NewsHour

[Josh Luthman]

ACP does not expire tomorrow.  Today is the last day to enroll.

The funds are expected to run out in April or May - this is the last month
providers will be reimbursed.

https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/DA-24-23A1.pdf

On Wed, Feb 7, 2024 at 3:56 PM Sean Donelan  wrote:

> The Affordable Connectivity Program will expire tomorrow unless renewed by
> Congress
>
> It won’t have an immediate impact but FCC will stop accepting new
> applications.  Current applications will continue until existing funds run
> out.
>
>
> https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/federal-subsidy-boosting-internet-affordability-set-to-expire-unless-congress-acts
>

Re: Any clue as to when bgp.he.net will be back?

[Josh Luthman]

My Windows Chrome nor Android Chrome have any ad/script blockers.  Both
showed me the error page.  Looks like it's showing me the tool now, though.

On Tue, Jan 16, 2024 at 12:10 PM Alec Edworthy 
wrote:

> As someone said on a different thread, and it worked for me, check your
> ad/script blockers.  I disabled mine for the site and the site came back
> to life for me.
>
> A
>
> --
> Alec Edworthy
> a.edwor...@lboro.ac.uk
>
>

Re: Outside plant - prewire customer demarc preference

[Josh Luthman]

Keep in mind new construction versus having to get around drywall.

2" is beyond excessive.  We use 1.25" duct for our 288ct *PLUS* up to 6
flat drop cables.

On Thu, Nov 30, 2023 at 7:45 PM Brandon Martin 
wrote:

> On 11/28/23 10:42, Mike Hammett wrote:
> > Why not just use SCH40 PVC sticks? Everywhere stocks that in copious
> levels.
>
> Ever tried to snake one of those through a wall?
>
> They're great for just pushing through a wall penetration to something
> directly adjacent on the inside, though.  At that point you might as
> well for for 2", honestly.
>
> --
> Brandon Martin
>

Re: CPE/NID options

[Josh Luthman]

Can you have an ethernet switch with dying gasp?

Our ONTs (Calix, PON) have it but I don't see how you'd do it with ethernet.

On Mon, Nov 27, 2023 at 11:25 AM Tom Samplonius  wrote:

>
>   Adva, RAD, and Telco Systems are all good NID options.
>
>   You can go with just any switch, but “proper” NIDs have dying gasp.  If
> the NID is going on a customer premise, I consider dying gasp a must.  The
> dying gasp allows your NOC to determine the difference between a network
> break and fiber cut.
>
>
> Tom
>
>
>
> On Nov 27, 2023, at 6:41 AM, Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
>
> Around here, Spectrum uses an Adva for demarc and it can not do rfc2544
> testing.  They will unplug the Adva and plug in the techs' mobile unit
> (Viavi I think).  VZW/Tmo/Sprint/etc don't seem to mind.
>
> On Mon, Nov 27, 2023 at 9:34 AM Ryan Hamel  wrote:
>
>> The problem with using switches as a CPE device is the lack of RFC2544
>> (or equivalent) testing, and monitoring of the complete circuit with TWAMP.
>> Both of which are used to ensure compliance with an SLA.
>>
>> Ryan Hamel
>>
>> --
>> *From:* NANOG  on behalf of
>> Josh Luthman 
>> *Sent:* Monday, November 27, 2023 6:14 AM
>> *To:* Christopher Hawker 
>> *Cc:* North American Network Operators' Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: CPE/NID options
>>
>> Caution: This is an external email and may be malicious. Please take
>> care when clicking links or opening attachments.
>>
>> When you say fiber, is it Ethernet?  If you just want layer 2 and a media
>> converter, Mikrotik is a super good answer.
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 23, 2023 at 12:19 AM Christopher Hawker 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Ross,
>>
>> I've found these Mikrotik devices to be excellent and reliable:
>>
>> CRS310-8G+2S+IN: 8 x 2.5G copper ethernet ports, 2 x SFP+ cages,
>> rack-mountable. Uses a single DC barrel-jack.
>> https://mikrotik.com/product/crs310_8g_2s_in
>> CRS305-1G-4S+IN: 4 x SFP+ cages, dual DC barrel-jack ports for redundant
>> power, 1 x 1G copper ethernet port for OOB management.
>> https://mikrotik.com/product/crs305_1g_4s_in
>> CRS310-1G-5S-4S+OUT: 4 x SFP+ cages, 5 x SFP cages, 1 x 1G copper
>> ethernet port for OOB management, can be mounted outdoors.
>> https://mikrotik.com/product/netfiber_9
>>
>> MSRP on all three are at or below $249.00 so are priced quite reasonably.
>> If you only need SFP+ cages I'd opt for the CRS305-1G-4S+IN.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Christopher Hawker
>>
>>
>> --
>> *From:* NANOG  on behalf
>> of Ross Tajvar 
>> *Sent:* Thursday, November 23, 2023 3:41 PM
>> *To:* North American Network Operators' Group 
>> *Subject:* CPE/NID options
>>
>> I'm evaluating CPEs for one of my clients, a regional ISP. Currently,
>> we're terminating the customer's service (L3) on our upstream equipment and
>> extending it over our own fiber to the customer's premise, where it lands
>> in a Juniper EX2200 or EX2300.
>>
>> At a previous job, I used Accedian's ANTs on the customer prem side. I
>> like the ANT because it has a small footprint with only 2 ports, it's
>> passively cooled, it's very simple to operate, it's controlled centrally,
>> etc. Unfortunately, when I reached out to Accedian, they insisted that the
>> controller (which is required) started at $30k, which is a non-starter for
>> us.
>>
>> I'm not aware of any other products like this. Does anyone have a
>> recommendation for a simple L2* device to deploy to customer premises? Not
>> necessarily the exact same thing, but something similarly-featured would be
>> ideal.
>>
>> *I'm not sure if the ANT is exactly "layer 2", but I don't know what else
>> to call it.
>>
>>
>

Re: CPE/NID options

[Josh Luthman]

Around here, Spectrum uses an Adva for demarc and it can not do rfc2544
testing.  They will unplug the Adva and plug in the techs' mobile unit
(Viavi I think).  VZW/Tmo/Sprint/etc don't seem to mind.

On Mon, Nov 27, 2023 at 9:34 AM Ryan Hamel  wrote:

> The problem with using switches as a CPE device is the lack of RFC2544 (or
> equivalent) testing, and monitoring of the complete circuit with TWAMP.
> Both of which are used to ensure compliance with an SLA.
>
> Ryan Hamel
>
> --
> *From:* NANOG  on behalf of
> Josh Luthman 
> *Sent:* Monday, November 27, 2023 6:14 AM
> *To:* Christopher Hawker 
> *Cc:* North American Network Operators' Group 
> *Subject:* Re: CPE/NID options
>
> Caution: This is an external email and may be malicious. Please take care
> when clicking links or opening attachments.
>
> When you say fiber, is it Ethernet?  If you just want layer 2 and a media
> converter, Mikrotik is a super good answer.
>
> On Thu, Nov 23, 2023 at 12:19 AM Christopher Hawker 
> wrote:
>
> Hi Ross,
>
> I've found these Mikrotik devices to be excellent and reliable:
>
> CRS310-8G+2S+IN: 8 x 2.5G copper ethernet ports, 2 x SFP+ cages,
> rack-mountable. Uses a single DC barrel-jack.
> https://mikrotik.com/product/crs310_8g_2s_in
> CRS305-1G-4S+IN: 4 x SFP+ cages, dual DC barrel-jack ports for redundant
> power, 1 x 1G copper ethernet port for OOB management.
> https://mikrotik.com/product/crs305_1g_4s_in
> CRS310-1G-5S-4S+OUT: 4 x SFP+ cages, 5 x SFP cages, 1 x 1G copper ethernet
> port for OOB management, can be mounted outdoors.
> https://mikrotik.com/product/netfiber_9
>
> MSRP on all three are at or below $249.00 so are priced quite reasonably.
> If you only need SFP+ cages I'd opt for the CRS305-1G-4S+IN.
>
> Regards,
> Christopher Hawker
>
>
> --
> *From:* NANOG  on behalf of
> Ross Tajvar 
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 23, 2023 3:41 PM
> *To:* North American Network Operators' Group 
> *Subject:* CPE/NID options
>
> I'm evaluating CPEs for one of my clients, a regional ISP. Currently,
> we're terminating the customer's service (L3) on our upstream equipment and
> extending it over our own fiber to the customer's premise, where it lands
> in a Juniper EX2200 or EX2300.
>
> At a previous job, I used Accedian's ANTs on the customer prem side. I
> like the ANT because it has a small footprint with only 2 ports, it's
> passively cooled, it's very simple to operate, it's controlled centrally,
> etc. Unfortunately, when I reached out to Accedian, they insisted that the
> controller (which is required) started at $30k, which is a non-starter for
> us.
>
> I'm not aware of any other products like this. Does anyone have a
> recommendation for a simple L2* device to deploy to customer premises? Not
> necessarily the exact same thing, but something similarly-featured would be
> ideal.
>
> *I'm not sure if the ANT is exactly "layer 2", but I don't know what else
> to call it.
>
>

Re: CPE/NID options

[Josh Luthman]

When you say fiber, is it Ethernet?  If you just want layer 2 and a media
converter, Mikrotik is a super good answer.

On Thu, Nov 23, 2023 at 12:19 AM Christopher Hawker 
wrote:

> Hi Ross,
>
> I've found these Mikrotik devices to be excellent and reliable:
>
> CRS310-8G+2S+IN: 8 x 2.5G copper ethernet ports, 2 x SFP+ cages,
> rack-mountable. Uses a single DC barrel-jack.
> https://mikrotik.com/product/crs310_8g_2s_in
> CRS305-1G-4S+IN: 4 x SFP+ cages, dual DC barrel-jack ports for redundant
> power, 1 x 1G copper ethernet port for OOB management.
> https://mikrotik.com/product/crs305_1g_4s_in
> CRS310-1G-5S-4S+OUT: 4 x SFP+ cages, 5 x SFP cages, 1 x 1G copper ethernet
> port for OOB management, can be mounted outdoors.
> https://mikrotik.com/product/netfiber_9
>
> MSRP on all three are at or below $249.00 so are priced quite reasonably.
> If you only need SFP+ cages I'd opt for the CRS305-1G-4S+IN.
>
> Regards,
> Christopher Hawker
>
>
> --
> *From:* NANOG  on behalf of
> Ross Tajvar 
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 23, 2023 3:41 PM
> *To:* North American Network Operators' Group 
> *Subject:* CPE/NID options
>
> I'm evaluating CPEs for one of my clients, a regional ISP. Currently,
> we're terminating the customer's service (L3) on our upstream equipment and
> extending it over our own fiber to the customer's premise, where it lands
> in a Juniper EX2200 or EX2300.
>
> At a previous job, I used Accedian's ANTs on the customer prem side. I
> like the ANT because it has a small footprint with only 2 ports, it's
> passively cooled, it's very simple to operate, it's controlled centrally,
> etc. Unfortunately, when I reached out to Accedian, they insisted that the
> controller (which is required) started at $30k, which is a non-starter for
> us.
>
> I'm not aware of any other products like this. Does anyone have a
> recommendation for a simple L2* device to deploy to customer premises? Not
> necessarily the exact same thing, but something similarly-featured would be
> ideal.
>
> *I'm not sure if the ANT is exactly "layer 2", but I don't know what else
> to call it.
>

Re: Outside plant - prewire customer demarc preference

[Josh Luthman]

If I was building a house I'd just get some 1" conduit from the outside to
the inside.  Put it in a NEMA box.  That solves the problem forever.

As a fiber ISP, and assuming you're doing your own WiFi in the house, you
can do conduit inside or we can just run the fiber.  We don't want to run
up/down walls and such.  99% of our installs are through the exterior wall
and then a u6x covers the house.  We run fiber

If you're in a cableCo area just run coax to get to your modem/router
situation.

I'm not sure what the Cat5 is for outside.  Ethernet isn't going to work
and DSL is nearly dead already.

On Fri, Nov 24, 2023 at 2:33 PM Sean Donelan  wrote:

> Thanks Brandon Martin,
>
> I agree 1-inch smurf tube is overkill for FTTH. From my quick research
> into all things FTTH, which I didn't know anything a week ago :-) ...
>
> The regulators in other countries still believe they will create
> competition.  The 25mm/32mm access duct (I'm going to make up a new
> term, and just call it "access duct", i.e. that smurf tube, conduit,
> pathway thing) is big enough for either a fiber microduct, cat 6 copper
> or RG6 coax.  Even a 12/24/48-volt DC power cable for active
> equipment at the NID/demarc.  The regulators keep all their competitors
> happy by not favoring any particular technology.
>
> In practice, the countries with the biggest FTTH deployments have very
> little FTTH competition at the physical access layer.
>
> Microduct, microduct, microduct is what the dominant access provider
> wants in those countries.  The dominant carrier wants builders to install
> "direct fiber" or "bypass fiber" microducts in new construction directly
> from every dwelling (house or apartment) to the carrier's central access
> point for the builder's development (apartment buildings or neighborhood).
>
> Microduct only means no pre-built access for other competitors.
>
> Apartment construction in Asia is very large. Several countries are
> also adding in-building mobile/wireless service requirements for new MDU
> building construction.
>
>
> My interpretation, not understanding the country-specific FTTH fights...
>
> The regulators appear to say, Ok, dominant carrier - you can have
> "direct fiber" microduct but builders must also provide an "open
> competition" 25mm/32mm access duct from the building entrance point (NID)
> or apartment consolidation points (CP) to the individual distribution box
> (DD) inside each dwelling.
>
> Just my uninformed take, corrections welcome.
>

Re: Fiber/OSP Technician Training and Apprenticeship Programs

[Josh Luthman]

I personally find college, for the most part, as a scam and simply a quick
way to enter into debt.  Yes there are exceptions, like everything.

I/We started doing fixed wireless in 2006 with no training.  We started
fiber to the home in 2019 with little training - a neighbor to the north
showed us splicing to get us comfortable enough to try it ourselves.  This
does go back to your "person-to-person transfer of internal knowledge" of
course, but with Youtube University it's certainly doable if you're
willing.  I've done light mechanical work on trucks/cars to avoid paying
someone else.  I know a great mechanic that had no help, no education, but
was put in a place with no money and a broken car and they fixed it
themselves.  Necessity breeds innovation.

If you're looking for input on your class I'm happy to provide you with
some input at no cost to you.  I still believe the average person willing
to put in work can simply learn themselves, but maybe someone who is dead
set on college would find their way into construction/OSP through your
course.

On Thu, Nov 16, 2023 at 4:44 PM Rhys Barrie via NANOG 
wrote:

> Hey all,
>
> I've recently been working with our county's broadband task force,
> investigating the expansion and equity of broadband networks on a
> local and state level. Through that, it's become clear that there's a
> painful shortage of fiber / outside plant technicians in the state of
> Michigan (if not nation-wide) in order to fulfill the workforce
> requirements of maintaining the current broadband fiber infrastructure
> in the state, much less to fuel fiber expansion, and especially in
> rural areas. There appear to be few options for training the required
> workforce, especially outside of the large enterprises that have the
> resources to run their own internal programs, and small (or even
> mid-sized) ISPs seem to be left with predominantly informal
> person-to-person transfer of internal knowledge, assuming that they
> have the required internal knowledge in the first place. This need for
> a qualified workforce is exacerbated in the face of the multitude of
> state and federal programs to encourage broadband internet expansion
> and equity, such as the upcoming $42.5 billion in BEAD grant funding
> and corresponding construction starting in ~12-18 months state- and
> nation-wide.
>
> As a result, our workforce development team over here at Mott
> Community College (Genesee County, MI) is working to develop a fiber /
> outside plant training and apprenticeship program in order to help
> address this shortage of qualified personnel and training options at a
> local and state level. We're looking for some industry contacts that
> would be interested in collaborating with us to establish high-level
> requirements regarding what skills need to be taught to prospective
> fiber / outside plant technicians, what qualifications trainees should
> have after completion in order to fulfill current workforce demands,
> and to otherwise provide input in sketching out a high-level
> curriculum. We're looking for feedback from a wide cross-section of
> industry stakeholders -- large enterprise backbone transit providers,
> rural residential ISPs, fiber co-ops and municipal networks,
> operations and outside plant managers, etc. -- in order to determine
> what the industry wants and needs, and how the entire community
> college system can help meet those needs.
>
> If anyone thinks that they have valuable input to provide regarding
> these workforce requirements, or knows the right people to talk to,
> please reach out and let me know!
>
> Rhys Barrie (He/Him)
> Network Engineer - Mott Community College
> Member - Genesee County Broadband Task Force
> (810) 762-0030 | rhys.bar...@mcc.edu | https://mcc.edu/
>

Re: OSP Management

[Josh Luthman]

3GIS here

On Tue, Oct 31, 2023 at 11:33 AM Stonebraker, Jack J 
wrote:

> 3GIS here.  Great product.
>
> *JJ Stonebraker*  |  Associate Director
> The University of Texas System | Office of Telecommunication Services
> *(512) 232-0888*  | j...@ots.utsystem.edu
>
>
> --
> *From:* NANOG  on behalf of
> Tim Burke 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 31, 2023 10:26 AM
> *To:* Mike Hammett ; michael.bro...@adams12.org <
> michael.bro...@adams12.org>
> *Cc:* NANOG 
> *Subject:* Re: OSP Management
>
> We're on OSPInsight here. Don't have much exposure to it, but it seems to
> do the trick well.
> --
> *From:* NANOG  on behalf of michael
> brooks - ESC 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 31, 2023 8:26 AM
> *To:* Mike Hammett 
> *Cc:* NANOG 
> *Subject:* OSP Management
>
> On that note, what do you all use for managing OSP? We have been
> attempting to stand up PatchManager for quite some time, and find it a good
> product, but the billions of options can be overwhelming
>
>
>
>
> michael brooks
> Sr. Network Engineer
> Adams 12 Five Star Schools
> michael.bro...@adams12.org
> 
> "flying is learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss"
>
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 27, 2023 at 5:54 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
>  Always fun managing OSP.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
> 
>
> Midwest-IX
> http://www.midwest-ix.com
> 
>
>
> This is a staff email account managed by Adams 12 Five Star Schools.  This
> email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended
> solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed.
> If you have received this email in error please notify the sender.
>

Re: Captive portal for suspended accounts

[Josh Luthman]

Steve,

It looks like you're using Sonar for billing.  That has the feature built
in.

On Mon, Sep 11, 2023 at 12:20 PM Steve Saner via NANOG 
wrote:

> Yes, that is exactly the desire.
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 11, 2023 at 11:03 AM J. Hellenthal 
> wrote:
>
>> Im hearing something similar to "when I don't pay my bill" direct
>> customer to portal allowing them to rectify that themself rather than
>> support staff.
>>
>> The kindest experience ive had with hat is spectrum in my area and
>> charter communications. Would that be what you are after ?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sep 11, 2023, at 08:54, Steve Saner via NANOG  wrote:
>>
>> We are a combination fiber and fixed wireless ISP with around 20k
>> subscribers.
>>
>> Management is wanting to develop something along the lines of a captive
>> portal for suspended accounts such that those customers are forced to a
>> portal that allows them to make payment and get reactivated.
>>
>> This is a common thing for a cafe wifi hotspot or something, but has
>> anyone here attempted to do it at this kind of scale who would be willing
>> to share their experiences? If someone has successfully done this, I would
>> love to pick your brain a bit to understand how you accomplished it.
>>
>> Thanks much.
>>
>> --
>>
>> Steve Saner | Senior Network Engineer
>> ideatek INTERNET FREEDOM™ FOR ALL
>> 316-640-8715 ext. 4005 | 111 Old Mill St., Buhler KS,67522 | ideatek.com
>>
>> This email transmission and any documents, files or previous email
>> messages attached to it may contain confidential information. If the reader
>> of this message is not the intended recipient or the employee or agent
>> responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, you are
>> hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this
>> communication is strictly prohibited. If you are not or believe you may not
>> be the intended recipient, please advise the sender immediately by return
>> email or by calling 620.543.5026. Then, please take all steps necessary to
>> permanently delete the email and all attachments from your computer system.
>> No trees were affected by this transmission – though a few billion photons
>> were mildly inconvenienced.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> J. Hellenthal
>>
>> "You think it's the living who will have ultimate judgement over you
>> because the dead will have no claim over your soul. But you may
>> be mistaken.*"
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
>
> Steve Saner | Senior Network Engineer
>
> ideatek INTERNET FREEDOM FOR ALL
>
> Cell: 316-640-8715 | 111 Old Mill Lane, Buhler, KS 67522 | ideatek.com
> 
>
> This email transmission and any documents, files or previous email
> messages attached to it may contain confidential information. If the reader
> of this message is not the intended recipient or the employee or agent
> responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, you are
> hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this
> communication is strictly prohibited. If you are not or believe you may not
> be the intended recipient, please advise the sender immediately by return
> email or by calling 620.543.5026. Then, please take all steps necessary to
> permanently delete the email and all attachments from your computer system.
> No trees were affected by this transmission – though a few billion photons
> were mildly inconvenienced.
>

Re: Looking for Hulu geolocation and IP space block contact

[Josh Luthman]

https://thebrotherswisp.com/index.php/geo-and-vpn/

On Thu, Aug 17, 2023 at 4:09 PM Eric Kuhnke  wrote:

> I have a large set of residential last mile gigabit customers in the
> NYC/NJ area where the /24 sized blocks for our CPE DHCP pools has just been
> blocked by Hulu. Please contact me off list.
>
> I am also trying to help Hulu here, because they're about to have several
> thousand customers complaining, or taking up the time of their customer
> service staff.
>
>
>

Re: Amazon Prime NOC contact

[Josh Luthman]

https://thebrotherswisp.com/index.php/geo-and-vpn/

On Sat, Jul 29, 2023 at 6:29 PM Adair Winter  wrote:

> I'm wondering if anyone from the Amazon Prime team might be hanging around
> or if anyone has a good contact? We are seeing a number of our CG-NAT
> subnets getting blocked with the "VPN" error, likely because they are
> seeing too many customers from the same or similar IP's. We'd like to talk
> to them about working through this or a whitelist or something.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> --
>
> Adair Winter
> AW Broadband
> A  203 SW 8Th Ave. Ste 601, Amarillo, Texas
> O  806.412.0888   <806-412-0888>M  806.231.7180  <806-231-7180>E
> ada...@awbb.net   W  www.awbb.net
> 
>

Re: FCC Chair Rosenworcel Proposes to Investigate Impact of Data Caps

[Josh Luthman]

Not everyone can afford $1000 to start up Starlink and then pay $130+ per
month.  That may be an option for some, but certainly not the majority.

If 100% of a town was covered by a single company with data caps, those
that are crying from hitting 1.2 TB/month will not be enough for a
competitor to come in and build on top.  A TB/mo now is extremely high - In
May 2023 we had 4 customers that exceeded that (all 4 of these customers
mentioned are subscribed to <25 mbps plans; we offer gig ftth).

On Fri, Jun 16, 2023 at 4:22 PM Mark Tinka  wrote:

>
>
> On 6/16/23 22:16, Michael Thomas wrote:
>
> > Won't Starlink and other LEO configurations be that backstop sooner
> > rather than later? I don't know if they have caps as well, but even if
> > they do they could compete with their caps.
>
> Maybe. I really haven't paid any attention to Starlink, although there
> are credible reports of folk testing it here in South Africa's urban
> centres.
>
> I have not heard of any mention of Starlink having caps as part of their
> service. Having said that, for services like this, things change as the
> number of customers using them rises.
>
> Mark.
>

Re: FCC Chair Rosenworcel Proposes to Investigate Impact of Data Caps

[Josh Luthman]

Mark,

In my world I constantly see people with 0 fixed internet options.  Many of
these locations do not even have mobile coverage.  Competition is fine in
town, but for millions of people in the US (and I'm going to assume it's
worse or comparable in CA/MX) there is no service.

As a company primarily delivering to residents, competition is not a focus
for us and for the urban market it's tough to survive on a ~1/3 take rate.

On Fri, Jun 16, 2023 at 2:28 PM Mark Tinka  wrote:

>
>
> On 6/16/23 18:41, Michael Thomas wrote:
>
> > Is 1.2 TB enough for a typical cord cutter? I just looked at mine and
> > it looks to be about 300GB/month, but we may not be typical for your
> > average family with kids, say.
>
> For residential services, the competition should easily outscore any
> provider that still delivers capped Internet.
>
> It's 2023...
>
> Mark.
>

Re: Do ISP's collect and analyze traffic of users?

[Josh Luthman]

Our ISP does not collect (nor obviously sell) customer
information/traffic.  People volunteer all of their information on
Facebook/Twitter/etc already, I'm not sure I see a concern.

On Tue, May 16, 2023 at 9:07 AM Tom Beecher  wrote:

> I did see an article about Team Cymru selling netflow data from ISPs to
>> governments though.
>>
>
> Team Cymru sold the same thing to the FBI Cyber Crimes division that any
> of us could purchase if we wanted to pay for it.
>
> On Tue, May 16, 2023 at 8:52 AM Rishi Panthee 
> wrote:
>
>> I’ve got Akvorado and netflow to identify where traffic comes in/goes to
>> so we can improve our peering and make less traffic go via transit. I did
>> see an article about Team Cymru selling netflow data from ISPs to
>> governments though.
>> https://www.vice.com/en/article/dy3z9a/fbi-bought-netflow-data-team-cymru-contract
>>
>>
>> Rishi Panthee
>> Ryamer LLC
>> Https://ryamer.com
>> rishipant...@ryamer.com
>>
>>
>> On May 15, 2023, at 5:59 PM, Michael Thomas  wrote:
>>
>>
>> And maybe try to monetize it? I'm pretty sure that they can be compelled
>> to do that, but do they do it for their own reasons too? Or is this way too
>> much overhead to be doing en mass? (I vaguely recall that netflow, for
>> example, can make routers unhappy if there is too much "flow").
>>
>> Obviously this is likely to depend on local laws but since this is NANOG
>> we can limit it to here.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>>

Re: Routed optical networks

[Josh Luthman]

Maybe some clarification as to what you're asking for would help.  You're
mixing fiber, networks, and a MAN.  Fiber is just the medium.  It could be
for IP switching or projecting a light show.  Are you asking if there are
diverse paths throughout a metro area?

On Mon, May 1, 2023 at 2:30 PM Etienne-Victor Depasquale via NANOG <
nanog@nanog.org> wrote:

> Hello folks,
>
> Simple question: does "routed optical networks" have a clear meaning in
> the metro area context, or not?
>
> Put differently: does it call to mind a well-defined stack of technologies
> in the control and data planes of metro-area networks?
>
> I'm asking because I'm having some thoughts about the clarity of this
> term, in the process of carrying out a qualitative survey of the results of
> the metro-area networks survey.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Etienne
>
> --
> Ing. Etienne-Victor Depasquale
> Assistant Lecturer
> Department of Communications & Computer Engineering
> Faculty of Information & Communication Technology
> University of Malta
> Web. https://www.um.edu.mt/profile/etiennedepasquale
>

Re: Best Linux (or BSD) hosted BGP?

[Josh Luthman]

I think FRR is a fork of Quagga.

On Mon, May 1, 2023 at 2:04 PM Tomas Jonsson  wrote:

> VyOS uses FRR, but they used to run quagga.
>
> And most bsd(?)/linux package managers has frr in their repository so
> maybe that could be something to look at?
>
>
> On 23/05/01 13:27, Josh Luthman wrote:
> >Doesn't VyOS simply use Quagga?
> >
> >On Mon, May 1, 2023 at 12:09 PM Jean Franco  wrote:
> >
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> VyOS
> >>
> >> Best regards,
> >>
> >> On Mon, May 1, 2023 at 1:03 PM Bryan Fields 
> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I know best subjective, but I'm looking at a project to announce some
> IP
> >>> space
> >>> that's between uses now and see what's there.  I'm planing to run a
> flow
> >>> logger and ntop on the VM and see what is coming in if anything.  I'm
> >>> looking
> >>> at the options for BGP out there, and there's quite a few (other than
> >>> running
> >>> a VM with a router doing BGP), but most data I've seen is focused on
> >>> scale and
> >>> filtering use, or RPKI.  My use case is a bit different, and I can't
> find
> >>> any
> >>> best practices for this use case from what I've found.
> >>>
> >>> That said, is there a better solution other than
> linux/ntop/ipt-netflow?
> >>> --
> >>> Bryan Fields
> >>>
> >>> 727-409-1194 - Voice
> >>> http://bryanfields.net
> >>>
> >>
>

Re: Best Linux (or BSD) hosted BGP?

[Josh Luthman]

Doesn't VyOS simply use Quagga?

On Mon, May 1, 2023 at 12:09 PM Jean Franco  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> VyOS
>
> Best regards,
>
> On Mon, May 1, 2023 at 1:03 PM Bryan Fields  wrote:
>
>> I know best subjective, but I'm looking at a project to announce some IP
>> space
>> that's between uses now and see what's there.  I'm planing to run a flow
>> logger and ntop on the VM and see what is coming in if anything.  I'm
>> looking
>> at the options for BGP out there, and there's quite a few (other than
>> running
>> a VM with a router doing BGP), but most data I've seen is focused on
>> scale and
>> filtering use, or RPKI.  My use case is a bit different, and I can't find
>> any
>> best practices for this use case from what I've found.
>>
>> That said, is there a better solution other than linux/ntop/ipt-netflow?
>> --
>> Bryan Fields
>>
>> 727-409-1194 - Voice
>> http://bryanfields.net
>>
>

Re: Windstream/Kinetic OSP assistance/clie sought

[Josh Luthman]

Use broadbandmap.fcc.gov to confirm availability or not.  If Kinetic says
it's available there and you can't sign up, challenge the location.

On Sun, Apr 23, 2023 at 12:04 AM Justin Streiner 
wrote:

> Other people on their street do have Kinetic, and I believe Windstream
> laid cable from the street to their house, but they are being told there
> are no facilities to connect them to an OLT or some other type of
> termination device.
>
> Thank you
> jms
>
> On Sat, Apr 22, 2023, 23:58 Alex Ryu  wrote:
>
>> It is new construction home, it may be HoA, so it is controlled by HoA
>> which may have some deal with one provider for landline.
>>
>> So it may be dictated by HoA until it reach to certain level when that
>> binding deal is expired.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from Mail  for
>> Windows
>>
>>
>>
>> *From: *Justin Streiner 
>> *Sent: *Saturday, April 22, 2023 10:46 PM
>> *To: *NANOG 
>> *Subject: *Windstream/Kinetic OSP assistance/clie sought
>>
>>
>>
>> Some of my family recently moved to an area of North Carolina where
>> high-speed residential Internet connectivity options seem to be very
>> limited. Outside of the options below, the only thing they're able to get
>> is satellite Internet service, and the performance has been very poor
>>
>>
>>
>> They moved into an area where the neighbors have Kinetic (Windstream's
>> Internet service) but my relatives have been told that there are no
>> facilities available for them. This is new construction, so perhaps it's
>> possible that their address hasn't been added into whatever systems
>> Windstream/Kinetic use for service pre-qualification?
>>
>>
>>
>> Is there anyone I can talk to at Winstream to find out if it is indeed
>> possible to get service at their address, or if there is way I can get past
>> the gatekeepers?
>>
>>
>>
>> Any guidance from someone in the know at Windstream would be greatly
>> appreciated.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you
>>
>> jms
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: Backup DC power standardization with Photovoltiac battery systems?

[Josh Luthman]

Simple answer:  No.

Customer routers and CPEs are a mix match of a) voltage - 5v, 9v, 12v, etc
and b) connector - dc barrel, USB, molex, etc.  Fixed wireless and fiber
for certain and I have to assume it's the same story with DSL/cable.

On Fri, Apr 14, 2023 at 9:06 PM Sean Donelan  wrote:

> On Sat, 15 Apr 2023, Joe Greco wrote:
> > Ubiquiti EdgeRouter PoE 5 can use 48VDC.
>
> If both PV battery walls and broadband CPE supported Power-Over-Ethernet
> as a backup power source, that would work too.  POE supports greater
> distances than USB-C.
>

Re: Auth0 geolocation?

[Josh Luthman]

So the contact helped you but the email to support was the fix?  Could you
share the sanitized details of what you sent to support?

On Thu, Apr 13, 2023 at 10:04 AM Tim Burke  wrote:

> I don't believe so. Someone was gracious enough to dip the Akamai DB for
> me... I ended up just emailing supp...@akamai.com after finding the
> discrepancy, waiting for them to finish processing the changes. There's
> gotta be a better way to do this, though!
> --
> *From:* Josh Luthman 
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 13, 2023 8:56:53 AM
> *To:* Tim Burke
> *Cc:* NANOG
> *Subject:* Re: Auth0 geolocation?
>
> Is there a publicly available email address/form/etc that we can put on
> TBW page?
>
> On Thu, Apr 13, 2023 at 9:43 AM Tim Burke  wrote:
>
>> For those following along at home, it appears that Akamai was the
>> culprit. Didn't even know they offered geolocation services! Many thanks
>> and much respect to those who reached out off-list.
>>
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Tim
>> --
>> *From:* Tim Burke
>> *Sent:* Monday, April 10, 2023 8:29:07 AM
>> *To:* NANOG
>> *Subject:* Re: Auth0 geolocation?
>>
>>
>> Apple and Best Buy are other ones that just came up over the weekend,
>> seems to be spread out across an entire /17. Oddly, we've had this /17 for
>> close to a year and a half, and this is just popping up...
>> --
>> *From:* NANOG  on behalf of Tim
>> Burke 
>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 6, 2023 7:32:41 PM
>> *To:* NANOG
>> *Subject:* Auth0 geolocation?
>>
>> Anyone know who Auth0 is using for geolocation services? Have a customer
>> reporting that Auth0, Lowes, Bank of America, and some other sites are
>> reporting their IP in the wrong location. Checked the usual suspects,
>> BrothersWISP.com geolocation providers list, etcetera and they’re all
>> showing in the correct location.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Tim
>>
>

Re: Auth0 geolocation?

[Josh Luthman]

Is there a publicly available email address/form/etc that we can put on TBW
page?

On Thu, Apr 13, 2023 at 9:43 AM Tim Burke  wrote:

> For those following along at home, it appears that Akamai was the culprit.
> Didn't even know they offered geolocation services! Many thanks and much
> respect to those who reached out off-list.
>
>
> Best,
>
> Tim
> --
> *From:* Tim Burke
> *Sent:* Monday, April 10, 2023 8:29:07 AM
> *To:* NANOG
> *Subject:* Re: Auth0 geolocation?
>
>
> Apple and Best Buy are other ones that just came up over the weekend,
> seems to be spread out across an entire /17. Oddly, we've had this /17 for
> close to a year and a half, and this is just popping up...
> --
> *From:* NANOG  on behalf of Tim
> Burke 
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 6, 2023 7:32:41 PM
> *To:* NANOG
> *Subject:* Auth0 geolocation?
>
> Anyone know who Auth0 is using for geolocation services? Have a customer
> reporting that Auth0, Lowes, Bank of America, and some other sites are
> reporting their IP in the wrong location. Checked the usual suspects,
> BrothersWISP.com geolocation providers list, etcetera and they’re all
> showing in the correct location.
>
> Thanks,
> Tim
>

Re: Hulu US Cogent IPs problem

[Josh Luthman]

Maybe try:  vx-whitelistrequ...@hulu.com

Report back so it can be added to TBW page if it is useful.

On Fri, Mar 24, 2023 at 9:31 AM Jose Montero Martín (TRABAJO) <
josemonteromar...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Good morning,
>
> Our customers are facing issues accessing Hulu from our Cogent IPs
> geolocated in the US. Every time they try to log in they receive the
> following prompted message:
> "Something went wrong. Please try again later"
>
> With a big black button "Log out and try again"
>
> These IPs are perfectly located but we are still having problems. I read
> all the thread related in the newsletter and also read the
> https://thebrotherswisp.com/index.php/geo-and-vpn/ webpage.
>
> I also contacted Hulu via customer support and ipad...@hulu.com, also using
> Digital Envoy contact webpage and e-mail. I always receive an e-mail
> informing us that there is no location or proxy problem either.
>
> Even further, I tried with another Cogent IP range also located in the US
> with success.
>
> Anyone who can help me even off the list would be appreciated.
>
> Kind regards,
>

Re: Spectrum Engineer

[Josh Luthman]

RPKI?

On Thu, Mar 23, 2023 at 1:06 PM Dennis Burgess 
wrote:

> Can someone from spectrum give me a call or shoot me a email.  We have a
> customer that is hard down, BGP is up, we are advertising the prefix to you
> but its not making its way out on the public internet.
>
>
>
> *[image: LTI-Full_175px]*
>
> *Dennis Burgess*
>
>
> * Mikrotik : Trainer, Network Associate, Routing Engineer, Wireless
> Engineer, Traffic Control Engineer, Inter-Networking Engineer, Security
> Engineer, Enterprise Wireless Engineer*
>
> *Hurricane Electric: **IPv6 Sage Level*
>
> *Cambium: **ePMP*
>
>
>
> Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition”
>
> *Link Technologies, Inc* -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
>
> *Office*: 314-735-0270  Website: http://www.linktechs.net
>
> Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com
>
> Need MikroTik Cloud Management: https://cloud.linktechs.net
>
>
>

Re: Searchable archives of the list?

[Josh Luthman]

Google?

geolocation site:https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/

On Thu, Mar 23, 2023 at 10:30 AM Chris Adams  wrote:

> Once upon a time, Josh Luthman  said:
> > Why wouldn't one use the link that's provided in the message?
>
> The request is right there in the Subject... "Searchable".  Traditional
> pipermail archives have no search function, and being subdivided into
> months makes manual searching tedious to impractical.
>
> --
> Chris Adams 
>

Re: Searchable archives of the list?

[Josh Luthman]

Why wouldn't one use the link that's provided in the message?

List-Archive: 

That link is in every NANOG/mailing list message, FYI.

On Thu, Mar 23, 2023 at 10:05 AM Edward McNair  wrote:

>
> The easiest way to search the archives is the use our discourse archive of
> the mailing list at https://community.nanog.org. You will need to create
> a free account at https://www.nanog.org to log in to the Community site.
> Please note that the mailing list mirror is read-only, but it's easily
> searchable and has a great user interface.
>
> *Edward McNair*
> NANOG Executive Director
>
> On Mar 23, 2023, at 6:58 AM, Joel M Snyder  wrote:
>
> This seems an absurd question but … “where are the searchable archives
> of this list?”  I have found an innumerable set of archives and copies of
> archives broken into months, but I cannot find a way to search the content
> of the list archive (short of downloading the archives and grepping from
> there).
>
> Is there a searchable archive someplace maintained by nanog?  And if so…
> how about updating the nanog web pages about this list with a pointer?
>
> And finally, the question I was searching to avoid asking on the list:
> does anyone have any experience, good or bad, with leasing out unused IPv4
> space through ipway?
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> jms
> ---
> Joel M Snyder - Opus One - j...@opus1.com
>
>

Re: 1.1.1.1 support?

[Josh Luthman]

Try asking dns-operati...@lists.dns-oarc.net for someone at CloudFlare.

For what it's worth, it works for me.  I'm in Troy, OH.

C:\Users\jluthman>dig www.moi.gov.cy @1.1.1.1 +short
212.31.118.26


On Wed, Mar 22, 2023 at 9:43 AM Saku Ytti  wrote:

>
>
> On Wed, 22 Mar 2023 at 15:26, Matt Harris  wrote:
>
>
>> When something is provided at no cost, I don't see how it can be
>> unethical unless they are explicitly lying about the ways in which they use
>> the data they gather.
>> Ultimately, you're asking them to provide a costly service (support for
>> end-users, the vast majority of whom will not ask informed, intelligent
>> questions like the members of this list would be able to, but would still
>> demand the same level of support) on top of a service they are already
>> providing at no cost. That's both unrealistic and unnecessary. There's an
>> exceedingly simple solution, here, after all: if you don't like their
>> service or it isn't working for you as an end-user, don't use it.
>>
>
> Thank you for the philosophical perspective, but currently my interest is
> not to debate merits or lack thereof in laissez-faire economics.
>
> The problem is, a large number of people will use 1.1.1.1, 8.8.8.8 or
> 9.9.9.9 despite my or your position about it. There is incentive for
> providers to provide it 'for free', as it adds value to their products as
> users are compensating providers with the data.
>
> Occasionally things don't work and when they do not, we need a way to
> inform the provider 'hey you have a problem'. You could be anywhere in this
> chain, with no ability to impact any of the decisions.
>
> I know there is a real problem, I know real users are impacted, I know
> almost none of them will have the ability to understand why there is a
> problem or remediate it.
>
> --
>   ++ytti
>

Re: Yondoo provided router, has "password" as admin pw, won't let us change it

[Josh Luthman]

What's the problem with double NAT?  I can't imagine an elderly mom trying
to host Xbox games - which is 95% of the problem with double NAT these days
(the other 5% being Ubiquiti bros having to access their Unifi router from
anywhere).

Your screenshots didn't come through, I suspect it's stripped via the
mailing list, but there's no model number specified anywhere.

NANOG really isn't the best place for this, but I don't know where else you
would be able to go besides what you've already done:  Yondoo support.

On Tue, Feb 7, 2023 at 9:17 AM TACACS Macaque via NANOG 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Long time lurker, first time poster. Sorry in advance if this is the wrong
> forum for something like this.
>
> My mom's ISP (Yondoo) seems to be providing DOCSIS 3.1 CPE (Customer
> Premises Equipment) with a built-in router, without providing the ability
> to change the admin password from "password" on it.
>
> [image: Screenshot 2023-02-03 at 9.49.15 PM.png]
>
> ​[image: Screenshot 2023-02-03 at 9.51.51 PM.png]
>
> Their customer service rep said that this is not only WAI, but also wanted
> to charge her $50 to have a tech come out and change it. Which is obviously
> less than ideal.
>
> That aside, this seems like a pretty egregious security standard which,
> from my understanding, can have fairly dire security implications... e.g.,
> DNS server settings can be pointed at whatever someone wants here.
>
> My mom is elderly and had already fallen victim to a call center scammer a
> couple years ago. They briefly took control over her laptop before she
> called for backup. So I'm just a little concerned that we have no control
> over changing this router's admin password — from “password” — in a pinch,
> without waiting for a truck roll && shelling out $50.
>
> I've sent her a DOCSIS 3.1 modem that doesn't have a router built-in, in
> hopes that they'll let us bring our own. She does have Google Wifi, but we
> can't even put their router into bridge mode. So she would be double NATed
> *and* have no control over changing the admin password on the first
> router.
>
> Anyone have any experience with Yondoo? I've tried reaching out to them on
> multiple fronts, but have yet to hear back from them on this. A tech is
> scheduled to come out tomorrow, so the plan is to beg (bribe?) them to let
> us use our own modem and then take it from there.
>
> Thanks,
> Todd
>

Re: Spectrum (legacy TWC) Infrastructure - Contact Off List

[Josh Luthman]

Micro trenching...in suburban or rural deployments?

On Thu, Feb 2, 2023 at 7:59 PM Kevin Shymkiw  wrote:

> Clayton,
>
> Did you leverage things like micro trenching for this project?  I may be
> mislead, but I thought micro trenching these days has helped drive the cost
> of doing this down fairly significantly.
>
> Kevin
>
> On Thu, Feb 2, 2023 at 17:56 Clayton Zekelman  wrote:
>
>>
>> The cost is not low.  Trust me on that.  I've been involved in a pretty
>> massive suburban fibre deployment for the past decade... I expect we'll
>> make money sometime in the 2030's... in time for me to retire.
>>
>> At 12:13 PM 02/02/2023, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
>>
>> The cost to build physical layer in much of the suburban and somewhat
>> rural US is low enough anymore that lots of smaller, independent, ISPs are
>> overbuilding the incumbent with fiber and taking a big chunk of their
>> customer base because they are local and care.  And making money while
>> doing it.Â
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Clayton Zekelman
>> Managed Network Systems Inc. (MNSi)
>> 3363 Tecumseh Rd. E
>> Windsor, Ontario
>> N8W 1H4
>>
>> tel. 519-985-8410
>> fax. 519-985-8409
>>
>

Re: Spectrum (legacy TWC) Infrastructure - Contact Off List (Patrick Garner)

[Josh Luthman]

Orange is so you can a) see it and b) orange = telecom

Blue = clean water
Green = sewer
Yellow = gas
Red = high voltage


On Fri, Feb 3, 2023 at 12:20 PM Keith Stokes  wrote:

> I think the bright orange is so you don't run over it with your lawn
> mower, especially since it's going to be there for 3 years.
>
> You'd think in the 3 years in the US South it would be grown over and
> buried itself. 
>
> --
> *From:* NANOG  on behalf of
> Patrick Garner 
> *Sent:* Friday, February 3, 2023 10:16 AM
> *To:* nanog@nanog.org 
> *Subject:* Re: Spectrum (legacy TWC) Infrastructure - Contact Off List
> (Patrick Garner)
>
> We have the same issue here in suburban Atlanta but with Comcast. The
> Comcast ped in my front yard has no cover... it's exposed to the elements.
> There's a bright orange cable running from there to my neighbor's house,
> it's been there for at least 3 years. At the least, it doesn't touch my
> property. There's other spots in my neighborhood where Comcast's bright
> orange coax just runs on the ground, along the road, in the gutter. Not
> saying AT is the greatest but at the very least their peds(they are so
> old they still say Bellsouth) have covers and they come within 3 days of
> install to bury DSL lines. I don't understand why Comcast has to choose the
> absolute ugliest bright orange cables to leave everywhere. If you're going
> to leave it, at least use a black cable.
>
> Yay duopoly!
> --
> Patrick Garner
> Owner
> Cherokee Communications LLC
> 404-406-9864
> patrick@cherokee.network
>

Re: Increasing problems with geolocation/IPv4 access

[Josh Luthman]

Every block I've gotten I just went through TheBrothersWisp geo location
page and just had them fix their information.  This includes virgin and
re-issued blocks from ARIN.

I've had a couple of random issues like Hulu thinking I'm a VPN, PSN
blocking a /24 because a /32 failed his password too many times, and
various streaming issues of which I tell customers to complain to the
streaming provider because all of the other ones work.

On Fri, Jan 20, 2023 at 7:32 PM Jared Mauch  wrote:

> I’ve been seeing an increasing problem with IP space not having the
> ability to be used due to the behaviors of either geolocation or worse,
> people blocking IP space after it’s been in-use for a period of time.
>
> Before I go back to someone at ARIN and say “your shiny unused 4.10 IP
> space” is non-functional and am at a place where I need to
> start/restart/respawn the timer, I have a few questions for people:
>
> 1) Do you see 23.138.114.0/24 in any feeds from a security provider that
> say it can/should be blocked?  If so, I’d love to hear from you to track
> this down.  Over the new year we had some local schools start to block this
> IP space.
>
> 2) many companies have geolocation feeds and services that exist and pull
> in data.  The reputable people are easy to find, there are those that are
> problematic from time-to-time (I had a few customers leave Sling due to the
> issues with that service).
>
> 3) Have you had similar issues?  How are you chasing all the issues?
> We’ve seen things from everything works except uploading check images to
> banks, to other financial service companies block the space our customers
> are in.  If we move them to another range this solves the problem.
>
> 4) We do IPv6, these places aren’t IPv6 modern at all, so that’s no help.
>
> 5) IRR+geofeed are published of course.  I’m thinking that it might be
> worthwhile that IP space have published placeholders when it’s well
> understood, eg: ARIN 4.9 space, I can predict what our next allocation
> would be, it would be great to have it be pre-warmed.
>
> I’ve only seen a few complaints against all our IP space over time, so I
> don’t think there’s anything malicious coming from the IP space to justify
> it, but it’s also possible they didn’t make it through.
>
> If you’re with the FKA Savvis side, can you also ping me, I’d like to see
> if you can reach out to our most recent complaint source to see if we can
> find who is publishing this.  Same if you’re with Merit or the Michigan
> Statewide Educational Network - your teachers stopped being able to post to
> powerschool for their students over the new year break.  They’ve fed it up
> to their tech people towards the ISD.  Details available off-list.
>
> Any insights are welcome, and as I said, I’d like to understand where the
> source list is as it starts out working then gradually breaks, so someone
> is publishing things and they are going out further.
>
> - Jared

Level 3 A and B DNS resolvers

[Josh Luthman]

I'm well aware these are not to be used by the public for DNS.  My only
concern is that it's used as one of several external hosts to look outside
of our network.  This is monitored through Spectrum (Charter) in southwest
Ohio.  Maybe a closer server was taken offline or it was unplugged for a
coffee maker.  Just reaching out to see if there's any insight at all.

Since ~Dec 8 it looks like we added a bit of latency:
[image: image.png]

DNS resolution has had quite some issues since then:
[image: image.png]


 410 ms 9 ms 8 ms  lag-15.troyoh0901h.netops.charter.com
[65.189.190.189]
  517 ms14 ms13 ms  lag-39.dytnoh5501r.netops.charter.com
[65.29.38.112]
  610 ms10 ms10 ms  lag-28.rcr01clevohek.netops.charter.com
[65.29.1.46]
  715 ms40 ms10 ms  lag-2-100.rpr01cleyohdh.netops.charter.com
[65.29.33.239]
  8 *** Request timed out.
  918 ms17 ms17 ms  ae2.3601.ear1.Washington12.level3.net
[4.69.148.45]
 1018 ms17 ms17 ms  a.resolvers.level3.net [4.2.2.1]


Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

Re: Google Speed Test

[Josh Luthman]

All of those links time out for me (at speedtest.cloud).

On Thu, Dec 29, 2022 at 11:06 AM Adam Blackington 
wrote:

> https://www.speedtest.cloud
> are also GCP endpoints.
>
> Adam
>
> On Wed, Dec 28, 2022 at 4:55 PM Dave Taht  wrote:
>
>> Waveform leverages cloud flare's CDN.
>>
>> I have a worldwide fleet of iperf, netperf, flent and irtt servers folk
>> are welcome to use, as I don't trust the web best tests
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 28, 2022, 11:44 AM Douglas Fischer 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I have recollection of something like embeded quality testing on youtube.
>>> I don't remember if it was a speed test or a latency/jitter test.
>>>
>>> I looked quickly to see if I could find it... But I couldn't find it.
>>>
>>> Em qua., 28 de dez. de 2022 às 13:43, Mike Hammett 
>>> escreveu:
>>>
 Does AS15169 have a speed test? It would be nice to gauge the capacity
 to a particular network that's something laypeople could do. I could host
 something in GCP myself, but cloud is expensive.

 -
 Mike Hammett
 [ http://www.ics-il.com/ | Intelligent Computing Solutions ]
 [ https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL ] [
 https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb ] [
 https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions ] [
 https://twitter.com/ICSIL ]
 [ http://www.midwest-ix.com/ | Midwest Internet Exchange ]
 [ https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix ] [
 https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange ] [
 https://twitter.com/mdwestix ]
 [ http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/ | The Brothers WISP ]
 [ https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp ] [
 https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg ]

>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Douglas Fernando Fischer
>>> Engº de Controle e Automação
>>>
>>

Re: Google Speed Test

[Josh Luthman]

They axed all that years ago, it was here:
https://www.google.com/get/videoqualityreport

On Wed, Dec 28, 2022 at 2:43 PM Douglas Fischer 
wrote:

> I have recollection of something like embeded quality testing on youtube.
> I don't remember if it was a speed test or a latency/jitter test.
>
> I looked quickly to see if I could find it... But I couldn't find it.
>
> Em qua., 28 de dez. de 2022 às 13:43, Mike Hammett 
> escreveu:
>
>> Does AS15169 have a speed test? It would be nice to gauge the capacity to
>> a particular network that's something laypeople could do. I could host
>> something in GCP myself, but cloud is expensive.
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> [ http://www.ics-il.com/ | Intelligent Computing Solutions ]
>> [ https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL ] [
>> https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb ] [
>> https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions ] [
>> https://twitter.com/ICSIL ]
>> [ http://www.midwest-ix.com/ | Midwest Internet Exchange ]
>> [ https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix ] [
>> https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange ] [
>> https://twitter.com/mdwestix ]
>> [ http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/ | The Brothers WISP ]
>> [ https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp ] [
>> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg ]
>>
>
>
> --
> Douglas Fernando Fischer
> Engº de Controle e Automação
>

Re: Google Speed Test

[Josh Luthman]

Those are all M-Lab tests - Stadia and google search results.  They're not
always certainly through Google's network (I would have to imagine they're
typically not).

On Wed, Dec 28, 2022 at 1:17 PM Chris Adams  wrote:

> Once upon a time, Robert Webb  said:
> > None of them are accurate. The one from a Google search gave me around
> > 280Mbps, the stadia gave me 39Mbps, and Ookla gave me close to 500Mbps..
>
> Browser-based speed testing is a crapshoot for anything above about
> 100M... Ookla has a native client for just about every client OS that
> tends to be much more accurate.
>
> --
> Chris Adams 
>

Re: Verizon Email to SMS gateway

[Josh Luthman]

A delay wouldn't make sense if it's a lack of FCC registration.
Undeliverable would.

My messages to vtext have worked well, it took <5 minutes as recently as
November 10.

On Thu, Nov 17, 2022 at 12:27 PM Randy Carpenter 
wrote:

>
> That is the understanding I got when discussing the situation with our
> engineering contact there.
>
> thanks,
> -Randy
>
>
> - On Nov 17, 2022, at 12:12 PM, Eric Tykwinski eric-l...@truenet.com
> wrote:
>
> > As a side note, will the email to text gateways be subject to the FCC's
> A2P
> > 10DLC registration requirements?
> > I'm wondering if that's part of the reason for not officially supporting
> email
> > to text.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> >
> > Eric Tykwinski
> > TrueNet, Inc.
> > P: 610-429-8300
> >
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: NANOG  On Behalf
> Of Randy
> >> Carpenter
> >> Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2022 12:09 PM
> >> To: Justin H. 
> >> Cc: NANOG 
> >> Subject: Re: Verizon Email to SMS gateway
> >>
> >>
> >> We did a few months back and were told that they are no longer
> officially
> >> supporting it. It may have to do with the volume that is being sent, >
> >> particularly from a single IP address.
> >>
> >> We moved to using Twilio's API and it has been much more solid.
> >>
> >>
> >> thanks,
> >> -Randy
> >>
> >>
> >> - On Nov 17, 2022, at 11:56 AM, Justin H. justindh...@gmail.com
> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Anyone else seeing massive delays in Verizon's email to SMS gateway
> >> > lately?  I'm seeing delays on emails to @vtext and @vzwpix addresses
> >> > at anywhere form 45 minutes to 12 hours.
> >> >
> > > > Justin H.
>

Re: Geo-IP Sling.com and/or Dish Network Contact.

[Josh Luthman]

Did you update the block with those services listed in the link?  They
usually update ~weekly and of course there's a delay to the providers as
well.

On Fri, Nov 4, 2022 at 5:35 PM Jared Mauch  wrote:

> Anyone figure this out? Have a new block that works with everything else
> it seems but them and about to tell this customer to switch from their
> service.
>
> Or if someone knows why 23.138.114.0/24 would be geolocated outside
> US/Michigan would be great to know.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Sent via RFC1925 compliant device
>
> On May 11, 2022, at 10:35 AM, Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
>
> 
> Dish/Sling isn't on here but check this list:
>
> https://thebrotherswisp.com/index.php/geo-and-vpn/
>
> On Tue, May 10, 2022 at 5:18 PM Nicholas Warren 
> wrote:
>
>> Does anyone know how to get ahold of Sling.com or Dish to update location
>> information on IPv4 addresses?
>>
>> I don’t know if meta discussion is allowed on-list, but maybe geolocation
>> contacts could be listed on the community site? 
>>
>> - Nich Warren
>>
>

Re: Understanding impact of RPKI and ROA on existing advertisements

[Josh Luthman]

It's very important to specify the /24 inside the /23 for example so as you
said "for all our subnets being advertised".

On Tue, Nov 1, 2022 at 5:01 PM Randy Bush  wrote:

> > Thanks everyone for your inputs. So bottomline setup RPKI and setup ROA's
> > for all our subnets being advertised.
>
> if the BGP advertisements are correct, then mirror them in ROAs.  most,
> if not all, CA UIs make that easy.
>
> randy
>

Re: juniper.net down?

[Josh Luthman]

https://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/juniper.net?proto=http

Just you.

On Tue, Oct 18, 2022 at 2:27 PM Jeff Shultz  wrote:

>
>
> On Tue, Oct 18, 2022 at 11:15 AM  wrote:
>
>> juniper.net down?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Aaron
>>
>> aar...@gvtc.com
>>
>>
>>
>
> Website is up from AS12044 (Oregon) at 11:25am Pacific.
>
> --
> Jeff Shultz
>
>
> Like us on Social Media for News, Promotions, and other information!!
>
> [image:
> https://www.instagram.com/sctc_sctc/]
> 
> 
> 
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  This message contains confidential information and is intended only
> for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not
> disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender
> immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and
> delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be
> guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted,
> corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses.
> The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions
> in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail
> transmission. 
>

Re: CLEC lawfirm recommendations?

[Josh Luthman]

Tom Forte should still be able to help you get started (he's contracted
sales now).

thefor...@hotmail.com theforty...@gmail.com

I saw him in Vegas last week, I didn't think to get his new email address.

On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 2:22 PM Glenn Kelley 
wrote:

> The team @ Inteserra are amazing.
>
> Reach out to TOM  tfo...@inteserra.com
> They have some nice programs to help spread the cost out as well
>
>
>
>
> *Glenn S. Kelley, *I am a Connectivity.Engineer
> Text and Voice Direct:  740-206-9624
>
>
> a Division of CreatingNet.Works 
> IMPORTANT: The contents of this email and any attachments are
> confidential. They are intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you
> have received this email by mistake, please notify Glenn Kelley, the
> sender, immediately and do not disclose the contents to anyone or make
> copies thereof.
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 11:21 AM Tim Utschig  wrote:
>
>> Hello NANOG'ers,
>>
>> I hope this isn't too far off-topic:
>>
>> I'm wondering, does anyone have any recommendations for a lawfirm
>> that will help a newbie through the process of becoming a CLEC? I
>> understand that it can take years, and am prepared for that.
>>
>> Specifically in San Jose, California.
>>
>> I'm trying to determine (by trial and error) the theoretical
>> minimum cost of running a tiny neighborhood FTTH +
>> very-short-range fixed-point wireless ISP for residences that
>> don't have fiber for no good reason at all.
>>
>> https://mplink.llc/img/mplink-v0.1-pencil.jpg
>>
>> Have gear, some funds, conflict-of-interest exception, and a
>> smidge of clue. Even have the first run of fiber already pulled
>> (via quickly-cancelled AT Dedicated Internet). Just need
>> https://clec.att.com/ access and somewhere to put my gear on the
>> other end of the line. I think.
>>
>> Cheers.
>>
>> --
>> Tim Utschig 
>> 408-644-3861 (mobile)
>>
>

Re: Article: DoD, DoJ press FCC for industry-wide BGP security standard

[Josh Luthman]

ROA isn't mandatory.  If it was, it would be a better comparison.  Still,
showing that low adoption rate shows the industry's interest in it.

I think we all see the problem, but is there a viable solution?  Is the
problem big enough to warrant the transition?

On Tue, Sep 20, 2022 at 2:29 PM Randy Bush  wrote:

> > Does another barrier to entry make sense?
>
> ROV's ROA creation is a barrier to entry in north america, as discussed
> in another thread or see
>
> https://scholarship.law.upenn.edu/faculty_scholarship/2035/
>
> there are other cultures where isp operational security is taken more
> seriously than power and money.
>
> > Do we trust the FCC to come up with an industry wide fool proof
> > (whatever that means) security standard?
>
> note that the DHS funded the development of both dns and routing
> security technology.  otoh, as other cultures, clue is not evenly
> distributed.
>
> the first step is said to be admitting one has a problem.
>
> randy
>

Re: Article: DoD, DoJ press FCC for industry-wide BGP security standard

[Josh Luthman]

Does another barrier to entry make sense?  This makes it even more
difficult still for new companies to start.

Do we trust the FCC to come up with an industry wide fool proof (whatever
that means) security standard?  This is the same government that can't stop
fake phone calls.

On Tue, Sep 20, 2022 at 1:39 PM Randy Bush  wrote:

> > Way overdue! In the last 4 weeks, I've had at least 20 diff
> > conversations with FSI Network operators re: BGP hijacking, how to
> > detect and in the future, mitigate with higher levels of success. Come
> > on BGP RPKI/ROA adaption. I found the easiest way is via ISP pressure
> > to implement dropping invalid routes.
>
> to remind, ROV is a safety mechanism, not a security mechanism.  it is
> proving, as intended, to mitigate mistakes.  which is very cool.  but it
> does not mitigate attacks of any sophistication.
>
> randy
>

Re: Contact info for Level 3 CDN GeoIP

[Josh Luthman]

Did you check these services?

https://thebrotherswisp.com/index.php/geo-and-vpn/

On Wed, Sep 14, 2022 at 6:34 PM Christopher Munz-Michielin <
christop...@ve7alb.ca> wrote:

> Hey All,
>
> For my dayjob I help run an Anycast DNS network and we've recently had
> complaints from our users in the APAC region that sites using Level 3's
> CDN have poor performance.  Upon looking into this, it seems that they
> (Level 3) have incorrect geolocation data for some of our Singapore
> servers and are returning IPs for CDN servers in Australia.  I've
> validated the WHOIS information for the blocks in question is correct,
> and every GeoIP site I check against comes back as Singapore, so this
> must be some internal database.
>
> I've tried emailing the whois contact, as well as the technical contact
> for the domain footprint.net but have yet to receive a response.  Wonder
> if anyone else has been able to get in touch with the CDN people at Level
> 3?
>
> Cheers!
> Chris
>
>

Re: FCC BDC engineer?

[Josh Luthman]

As of last week our discussions with the FCC have still not determined the
official ruling.  Again, my personal opinion is that it will not require a
PE stamp but rather depend on an individual to be a professional engineer.

On Tue, Jul 5, 2022 at 3:39 PM Andrew Latham  wrote:

> Josh, you are correct, I linked to the wrong document.
>
> On Tue, Jul 5, 2022 at 1:36 PM Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
>
>> Andrew,
>>
>> Where does it say that it is or is not required?  This is a request for
>> clarification filed by the CCA.
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 5, 2022 at 1:59 PM Andrew Latham  wrote:
>>
>>> I read https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/DA-22-543A1.pdf and a PE
>>> is not required.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jul 5, 2022 at 9:47 AM KCI Dave Logan via NANOG 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi all.  We operate a small regional ISP in Colorado, but no size is
>>>> too small to ignore the FCC, as you all know.
>>>>
>>>> We're really struggling to find the required engineer for the filing,
>>>> and we're small enough that we don't have an officer with engineering
>>>> credentials.
>>>>
>>>> Any pointers in the CO/WY/NE/KS area would be great, on or off list.
>>>>
>>>> I sure hope we're the only org with this problem still, and all the
>>>> rest of you are good to go.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> dave
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Dave Logan
>>>> Kentec Communications, Inc.
>>>> 970-522-8107
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> - Andrew "lathama" Latham -
>>>
>>
>
> --
> - Andrew "lathama" Latham -
>

Re: FCC BDC engineer?

[Josh Luthman]

Andrew,

Where does it say that it is or is not required?  This is a request for
clarification filed by the CCA.

On Tue, Jul 5, 2022 at 1:59 PM Andrew Latham  wrote:

> I read https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/DA-22-543A1.pdf and a PE
> is not required.
>
> On Tue, Jul 5, 2022 at 9:47 AM KCI Dave Logan via NANOG 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi all.  We operate a small regional ISP in Colorado, but no size is too
>> small to ignore the FCC, as you all know.
>>
>> We're really struggling to find the required engineer for the filing, and
>> we're small enough that we don't have an officer with engineering
>> credentials.
>>
>> Any pointers in the CO/WY/NE/KS area would be great, on or off list.
>>
>> I sure hope we're the only org with this problem still, and all the rest
>> of you are good to go.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> dave
>>
>> --
>>
>> Dave Logan
>> Kentec Communications, Inc.
>> 970-522-8107
>>
>>
>
> --
> - Andrew "lathama" Latham -
>

Re: FCC BDC engineer?

[Josh Luthman]

There still is no clarification on the requirement of an official PE stamp.

My personal feeling is that if it's not decided by now, the week after
filing opens, it would be an unreasonable burden for filers.  I believe
it's more "professional engineer" like a CPNI for CBRS.

On Tue, Jul 5, 2022 at 11:44 AM KCI Dave Logan via NANOG 
wrote:

> Hi all.  We operate a small regional ISP in Colorado, but no size is too
> small to ignore the FCC, as you all know.
>
> We're really struggling to find the required engineer for the filing, and
> we're small enough that we don't have an officer with engineering
> credentials.
>
> Any pointers in the CO/WY/NE/KS area would be great, on or off list.
>
> I sure hope we're the only org with this problem still, and all the rest
> of you are good to go.
>
> Thanks,
> dave
>
> --
>
> Dave Logan
> Kentec Communications, Inc.
> 970-522-8107
>
>

Re: Reporting Comcast outside plant issues?

[Josh Luthman]

You have to find the local "Damage Prevention" guy.  You might call the
county engineer office and see what they have for permits (for Comcast) in
the area and call that guy.

You might also find out the owner of the poles, often the power company but
maybe the phone company.

On Sun, Jun 26, 2022 at 10:27 PM Justin Streiner 
wrote:

> Does anyone here have a contact at Comcast for reporting outside plant
> issues that are not (at the moment) service-affecting? I am not a Comcast
> customer, and they make it nearly impossible for non-customers to reach
> them unless you're signing up for service.
>
> There is a long coax span (2-300 feetthat has come off of a pair of
> utility poles and is laying on the ground near my house. I moved it off of
> the road to keep it from getting run over, but reaching anyone at Comcast
> to get the cable re-attached to the poles has been difficult.
>
> Any insight anyone (off-list is fine) could offer would be appreciated.
>
> Thank you
> jms
>
>
>

Re:

[Josh Luthman]

I use Cogent: https://www.cogentco.com/en/looking-glass and HE which is
easier to remember: https://lg.he.net/

On Mon, Jun 20, 2022 at 9:56 AM Glenn Kelley 
wrote:

> Good Monday Morning Everyone.
>
> Quick Question:
>
> What is everyone's favorite software for running a looking glass.
>
> A friend asked me this over the weekend - and while there are others
> available on the internet to use - it would be helpful for them to run one
> within their own network.
>
> It has been a while since i have played setting one up so figured might as
> well ask
>
>
> *Glenn S. Kelley, *Connectivity.Engineer
> Text and Voice Direct:  740-206-9624
>
>
>
>

Re: Upstream bandwidth usage

[Josh Luthman]

>Well, my dsl provider has like a 25/5 50/10 so clearly everybody has the
headroom to get to 10 at least.
>I mean, most users have no clue about such things.

Lol I'm sure you're no network operator Michael.  That's not accurate (well
your first statement).


On Sat, Jun 11, 2022 at 8:29 PM Mike Hammett  wrote:

> It's not always something the service provider has the ability to change.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
> 
> --
> *From: *"Michael Thomas" 
> *To: *"Mike Hammett" 
> *Cc: *nanog@nanog.org
> *Sent: *Saturday, June 11, 2022 2:38:29 PM
> *Subject: *Re: Upstream bandwidth usage
>
>
> On 6/10/22 6:52 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:
>
> Due to the demand being predominately in the downward direction,
> half-duplex (or effectively half-duplex) systems either allocate more TDMA
> slots or more channels to downstream, at the expense of upstream.
>
> Well, my dsl provider has like a 25/5 50/10 so clearly everybody has the
> headroom to get to 10 at least. Marketing, of course, but I wonder how many
> support calls they got because "my internet is slow" from saturated
> upstream with zoom calls. I mean, most users have no clue about such things.
>
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
> Midwest-IX
> http://www.midwest-ix.com
>
> --
> *From: *"Michael Thomas"  
> *To: *nanog@nanog.org
> *Sent: *Thursday, June 9, 2022 3:46:24 PM
> *Subject: *Re: Upstream bandwidth usage
>
>
> On 6/9/22 1:26 PM, Mel Beckman wrote:
> > With 430 GB versus 32 GV average down versus up usage today, according
> > to your article, this is still not a case for symmetrical consumer
> > bandwidth. Yes, the upstream usage increased slightly more than the
> > downstream usage. But the ratio was still so big that it would take
> > decades for them to join. I doubt they ever will. Consumers just don’t
> > have that much days up to push yet, and probably never will.
> >
> > Also, a lot of that Usage can be explained by video conferencing
> > during Covid, which has dropped off significantly already.
> >
> >
> If it's so tiny, why shape it aggressively? Why shouldn't I be able to
> burst to whatever is available at the moment? I would think most users
> would be happy with that.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>

Re: FCC proposes higher speed goals (100/20 Mbps) for USF providers

[Josh Luthman]

Look up the Broadband Data Act and the FCC BDC.  This will identify what
individuals have service in ~6 months.

On Fri, Jun 3, 2022 at 11:41 AM Sean Donelan  wrote:

> I wish (...) that public right of way agreements included a requirement
> that service providers must publish accurate service area maps, and must
> provide service (or pay a substantial penalty for each inaccurate service
> claim).
>
> In the old days (...) the "certificate of publice convenience and
> necessity" came with a duty to offer service to all in the area.  That was
> part of the consideration to use the public right of ways.
>
> Now, even when you order service and obtain a confirmation, its not really
> a confirmation.  Or ridiculous 'install fees', which are really go away
> fees.
>
> Look at the difficulty the FCC and state PUCs have getting accurate
> service maps from carriers and service providers.  Its like those wireless
> maps, the carriers make jokes about in TV commercials. Their own ad
> agencies know their own maps are bogus.
>
>
>
> On Thu, 2 Jun 2022, Jared Mauch wrote:
> >> 50 feet across the street from me on the east side of the road is AT
> FTTH
> >> territory. My side of the street is not. F the west side apparently.
> >
> >   This is common sadly.  I had fiber 1200' from my house that was
> > unused and there may be no record of it, etc.. so it's just not possible
> > to happen.  Same goes for areas that have long-haul fiber passing them
> > but can't get service.
> >
> >   Not everyone is that lucky, but I've seen places with 2-3 fiber
> > providers that pass them and none offer service.
>

Re: FCC proposes higher speed goals (100/20 Mbps) for USF providers

[Josh Luthman]

>Yep.  No one is forcing carriers to take USF money.  They can essentially
build whatever they want without USF money.

Unless of course USF funds are used to over build your already existing
network.  This is exactly the situation I'm in.

On Mon, May 30, 2022 at 5:52 PM Sean Donelan  wrote:

> > I would say, if you’re looking to build or expand your networks, focus
> > on how you can get the fiber out there, there’s a lot of money available
> > if you’re willing to take it.  It might mean taking the USF money and
> > the obligations that go with that in reporting, compliance, etc.. but
> > those costs don’t have to be onerous if you are mindful of how the
> > programs work and have the right integration/reporting.
>
>
> Yep.  No one is forcing carriers to take USF money.  They can
> essentially build whatever they want without USF money.
>
> However, if they do take the USF money, what should be the absolute
> minimum delivery requirements?  They can always build above the minimum.
>
> Its essentially a reverse auction.  If the government sets the
> requirements too high, the carriers claim they will walk away and the
> long-tail of broadband doesn't happen.  If the government sets the
> requirements too low, the carriers take the money and build less.
>
> The historical problem is carriers promise whatever it takes to win, take
> the money and don't deliver (or demand more money to finish).
>

Re: FCC proposes higher speed goals (100/20 Mbps) for USF providers

[Josh Luthman]

CAF nor RDOF required IPv6.  BEAD doesn't say anything about IPv6.  I
seriously doubt v6 gets included into the conversation because even NANOG
can't agree it is needed.  The bigger concern are the people that have no
connectivity at all (no 1 mbps, no 25/3, no 100/20, no gigabit, etc).

On Tue, May 24, 2022 at 9:41 AM j k  wrote:

> With this funding, does the FCC require IPv6 and/or dual stack?  If not,
> it could cause a new IPv6 digital divide.
>
> Joe Klein
>
> On Tue, May 24, 2022, 9:21 AM Max Tulyev  wrote:
>
>> Do they help with a local government ("we do not need your cables, go
>> avway")?
>>
>> 23.05.22 21:56, Sean Donelan пише:
>> >
>> > Money, money, money.
>> >
>> >
>> > On Mon, 23 May 2022, Aaron Wendel wrote:
>> >
>> >> The Fiber Broadband Association estimates that the average US
>> >> household will need more than a gig within 5 years.  Why not just jump
>> >> it to a gig or more?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 5/23/2022 1:40 PM, Sean Donelan wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> https://www.fcc.gov/document/fcc-proposes-higher-speed-goals-small-rural-broadband-providers-0
>> >>>
>> >>> The Federal Communications Commission voted [May 19, 2022] to seek
>> >>> comment on a proposal to provide additional universal service support
>> >>> to certain rural carriers in exchange for increasing deployment to
>> >>> more locations at higher speeds. The proposal would make changes to
>> >>> the Alternative Connect America Cost Model (A-CAM) program, with the
>> >>> goal of achieving widespread deployment of faster 100/20 Mbps
>> >>> broadband service throughout the rural areas served by rural carriers
>> >>> currently receiving A-CAM support.
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>>
>

Re: Any sign of supply chain returning to normal?

[Josh Luthman]

I'd bet it's cheaper and easier to quantify new hardware than software.
Labor was super expensive and now it is ready to implode.

On Thu, May 19, 2022 at 9:27 AM Dave Taht  wrote:

> As I've been saying for a while, instead of buying new kit, perhaps we
> could spend some time on getting better software onto our older kit?
> Getting stuff to multiplex better, be more reliable, last longer?
>
> It isn't just me wanting to upgrade a billion+ routers with existing
> crappy software to openwrt, is it?
>
>
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1T21on7g1MqQZoK91epUdxLYFGdtyLRgBat0VXoC9e3I/edit
>

Re: Geo-IP Sling.com and/or Dish Network Contact.

[Josh Luthman]

Dish/Sling isn't on here but check this list:

https://thebrotherswisp.com/index.php/geo-and-vpn/

On Tue, May 10, 2022 at 5:18 PM Nicholas Warren 
wrote:

> Does anyone know how to get ahold of Sling.com or Dish to update location
> information on IPv4 addresses?
>
> I don’t know if meta discussion is allowed on-list, but maybe geolocation
> contacts could be listed on the community site? 
>
> - Nich Warren
>

Re: Disney+ Issues

[Josh Luthman]

>Disney+ appear to be the worst outfit at handling this kind of thing: They
have no concept of a service provider

Aren't all of them that way?  That's been my experience.  Their front line
support often tells me to call my ISP.

On Fri, Apr 29, 2022 at 9:35 AM Paul Thornton  wrote:

> On 29/04/2022 14:22, Josh Luthman wrote:
>
> > Did you try:
> >
> > Disney+: E-mail them the trouble subnet at
> > techops-distribut...@disneystreaming.com. Also,
> > techops-servi...@disneystreaming.com will probably be where that sends
> > you. Another possible email is disneyplusispsupp...@disneyplus.com.
> >
> > https://thebrotherswisp.com/index.php/geo-and-vpn/
> >
>
> We too are having the same issue - started suddenly around 6-8 weeks ago
> having worked fine for at least a year.  I have no idea what they
> changed.  Based on my first hand knowledge, these E-mail addresses go
> nowhere where anyone either can - or wants to - resolve issues.
>
> Disney+ appear to be the worst outfit at handling this kind of thing:
> They have no concept of a service provider wanting them to update an
> entire block - they are fixing this for individual customers who call
> them but we are calling them weekly, and E-mailing regularly too; but go
> around in circles where someone promises to call back having sorted it.
> This never happens.
>
> They also appear to use some opaque geoloc service (who themselves don't
> have a "you have this wrong" button) and really don't care that they are
> making life difficult for their paying customers!
>
> We have to keep telling new customers variations of "Yes, this is
> Disney's fault, no we can't fix it" which doesn't go down very well
> because "It worked fine with my previous provider, it must be your
> issue".  Apart from suggesting they cancel their subscription because of
> Disney's incompetence there's not much else we can do :(
>
> 
> I get that you have to appease rights holders and do this idiotic
> geolocation thing, because they are still obsessed with geographical
> boundaries in the 21st century.  But if you are going to do this, can
> you please damned well fix *your* screwups when you get it wrong in a
> timely manner - or don't bother doing it at all.
> 
>
> Paul.
>
>

Re: Disney+ Issues

[Josh Luthman]

Did you try:

Disney+: E-mail them the trouble subnet at
techops-distribut...@disneystreaming.com. Also,
techops-servi...@disneystreaming.com will probably be where that sends you.
Another possible email is disneyplusispsupp...@disneyplus.com.

https://thebrotherswisp.com/index.php/geo-and-vpn/


On Fri, Apr 29, 2022 at 9:12 AM Jim Troutman 
wrote:

> I am having this same trouble, again.
>
> Last year, it took over 4 months to get it solved, and required
> outside-normal-channel assistance from more than one person who reached out
> to me directly off the NANOG list.  If not for that, I don’t think it would
> have ever been resolved.
>
> It just started happening again this week to the same IP block.  No
> responses so far.
>
> It is amazing to me that most IP streaming services do not appear to have
> a NOC.  Broadcast networks all have operations centers or master control
> rooms to address issues.
>
> On Thu, Apr 28, 2022 at 9:28 PM Norman Jester  wrote:
>
>> Anyone from Disney+ here? If you can reply off-list I'd appreciate it. I
>> have emailed every place I can think of to solve a geoip problem affecting
>> hundreds of customers, no reply in weeks.
>> Would appreciate some help thanks in advance.
>> --
>> Norman
>> JellyDigital
>>
>> --
> Jim Troutman,
> jamesltrout...@gmail.com
> Pronouns: he/him/his
> 207-514-5676 (cell)
>

Re: Geolocation data management practices?

[Josh Luthman]

Go through this list:
https://thebrotherswisp.com/index.php/geo-and-vpn/

The RFC only works if they're pulling your feed and they'd only know that
if you contact them in the first place.

On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 9:14 AM Rubens Kuhl  wrote:

> Besides geofeed, there are also geoidx records in IRRs but whether
> geolocation services actually use geofeed or geoidx remains to be
> seen. You can see some geoidx: at this IRR entry in TC:
> https://bgp.net.br/whois/?q=-s%20TC%20-i%20mnt-by%20MAINT-AS271761
>
> Regarding LACNIC, what LACNIC, NIC.mx and NIC.br do is to select which
> RIR or NIR services requests depending on the organisation's country.
>
>
> Rubens
>
> On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 9:53 AM Shawn 
> wrote:
> >
> > Aloha NANOG,
> >
> > What is the best practice (or peoples preferred methods) to
> > update/correct/maintain geolocation data?
> > Do most people start with description field info in route/route6 objects?
> >
> >
> > Also, thoughts and considerations on using IPv4 space from one RIR in
> > countries belonging to another RIR?
> >
> > With IPv4 exhaustion and inter-RIR IPv4 transfers, and geolocation data,
> it
> > seems less applicable than it had been (a decade ago).  The IP's will be
> > used for CDN, not by end-users/subscribers.
> > Context: trying to work through an administrative "challenge" with LACNIC
> > regarding an IPv4 transfer, considering transferring to ARIN and then
> using
> > in LACNIC (then once resolved, transfer from ARIN to LACNIC).  Or just
> using
> > existing ARIN space in Brazil.
> > LACNIC is making things more difficult than they need to be.  I know
> this is
> > NANOG... but seeking advice, working on a global network, US HQ,
> currently
> > no active "registration" in LACNIC (except Brazil), but we operate in 5
> > countries in the region (data center/colo).  We would use Brazil, but
> very
> > hesitant to use their NIC (nic.br); LACNIC is saying we cannot maintain
> our
> > relationship with them using our Brazil organization (our only formal
> > subsidiary in the region).  LACNIC does not really define the "entity"
> > operating in their region well. We use our US entity with RIPE and APNIC,
> > simply showing documentation (contracts) that we operate in their region.
> > Maybe I am not using the magic word?
> >
> >
>

Re: fs.com Ethernet switches

[Josh Luthman]

Using a cheap POE switch.  I'm pretty happy with it since it's cheap.  It's
a bit noisy with a small load would be my only complaint - I suspect it's
the same volume at full load.

No management/layer 3 features on mine nor do I want them.  I don't know if
L2 only means you want management or not.

On Thu, Apr 14, 2022 at 10:24 AM Paschal Masha <
paschal.ma...@ke.wananchi.com> wrote:

> Same experience here. So far so good and their TAC is efficient.
>
> I had to disable MCLAG settings due to a strange behavior with multicast.
> Something that appeared unpleasing- at least to me - is the fact that the
> separate MPLS license doesn't support PIM when activated.
>
>
>
> Regards
> Paschal Masha | Engineering
> Skype ID: paschal.masha
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Chris Adams" 
> To: "nanog" 
> Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2022 4:55:27 PM
> Subject: Re: fs.com Ethernet switches
>
> Once upon a time, Richard Angeletti  said:
> > Wondering if anyone on the list has any experiences with fs.com
> Ethernet
> > switches that they are willing to share (good or bad)?
> >
> > We're looking for some cost effective L2 only 10Gb-T switches and their
> > S58XX switches have come up as a potential option.
>
> I set up a couple of S5850s for a sever cluster recently, with MC-LAG
> and a bit of L3 for a management network. They worked fine.
>
> The only issue I had was getting ACLs applied to limit device and
> management net access; they had a couple of extra steps needed. The
> typical IOS-ish "ip access-group" command is accepted on an interface,
> but it doesn't actually work that way - you have to do a policy-map that
> references a class-map that references an access-list, and then apply
> the policy-map to the interface.
>
> Also, putting an ACL on "line vty" only applied after authentication (so
> you could SSH and authenticate, only to then be denied access, which
> makes it susceptible to password scanners). Instead you configure an
> ACL on the SSH service itself.
>
> --
> Chris Adams 
>
>
>
>

Re: Hulu Contact?

[Josh Luthman]

Start here...

https://thebrotherswisp.com/index.php/geo-and-vpn/

On Wed, Apr 13, 2022 at 3:02 PM Jason Lamb  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
>
>
> We are having some issues with customers logging into Hulu on some recent
> IPv4 ranges we have added to our network. I think it is likely an IPv4
> geolocation issue since the issue only appears on our newer IPv4 ranges. If
> anyone from Hulu NetOps is monitoring this, or if anyone has a Hulu NetOps
> contact they would share, please reach out to me.
>
>
>
> Thanks!
>
> Jason
> [image: PRTC]  *Jason Lamb*, Software
> Engineering/IT Supervisor
> *Peoples Rural Telephone Cooperative *
> 259 Main St. S. | P.O. Box 159 | McKee, KY 40447
> Main: (606) 287-7101 | Direct: (606) 287-5488 | Email: jason.l...@prtc.org
>
>
>
>
>
> *CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: If you have received this e-mail in error, please
> notify the sender by return e-mail and delete it immediately. Do not print
> or disseminate its contents. The information in this message is intended
> for the listed recipients only. This message may contain information that
> is privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure to
> parties other than the listed recipients. If you are not one of the listed
> recipients, any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any
> action based on the contents of this message is prohibited. *
>
>
>

Re: PoE, Comcast Modems, and Service Outages

[Josh Luthman]

There's a certain manufacturer of TDD radio where the CPU clock is at the
same frequency as what Verizon's enodeB will transmit.  Even at miles away,
it can and will cause PIM issues.  Again, don't rule it out.

Maybe he's just looking for a simple answer that 99% of callers will accept
and it makes them happy.  When a customer of mine tells me they think it's
something and I know it's off, I just let them believe in their statement.
There's no reason to go after this tech and insult him, all that's doing is
making everyone miserable.

On Tue, Mar 29, 2022 at 3:26 PM Joe Greco  wrote:

> On Tue, Mar 29, 2022 at 03:07:47PM -0400, Josh Luthman wrote:
> > We've routinely seen where lines not even connected to the same circuit
> in
> > any way (ie an OTA antenna coax line and cat5 POE) cause issues with one
> > another.  As much as we would all love to have a perfect line in the
> sand,
> > there isn't.  Don't rule anything out until the issue is resolved.
> >
> > As someone that sees this in the field and watches people simply hate on
> > someone because there's a frustrating situation, it's worth taking a
> breath
> > before too upset.
>
> You can run cable lines next to A/C wiring and get problems too.  Or
> ethernet lines next to A/C wiring.  That does not justify wild claims
> about PoE such as what this tech was making, and until someone shows
> me a graph of "PoE buildups" observable via SNMP or whatever the
> cable company is using to graph trends, it seems pretty clear that
> this is a bogus answer.
>
> There's a lot of difference between "we observed this very specific kind
> of interference related to PoE in a particular circumstance" and the
> crazy generalizations being made by the tech.  Asking to please make sure
> your switch is grounded properly?  That'd be good.  Asking for PoE to be
> disabled on the port?  Yeah fine.  Suggesting separation of cables?
> Sure.  Checking for proper grounding of the ground block (on the cable
> inlet)?  Sure.  There's room for things to happen.
>
> I'm all for investigating with an open mind, but I draw the line at crazy.
>
> Given that so much of the world works on PoE, it seems like the other
> potential resolution would be to note that there's an implication here
> by the tech that Comcast's hardware is standards noncompliant and ask
> them what they plan to replace their cheap CPE with.
>
> ... JG
> --
> Joe Greco - sol.net Network Services - Milwaukee, WI - http://www.sol.net
> "The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its
> way
> through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that
> democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your
> knowledge.'"-Asimov
>

Re: PoE, Comcast Modems, and Service Outages

[Josh Luthman]

We've routinely seen where lines not even connected to the same circuit in
any way (ie an OTA antenna coax line and cat5 POE) cause issues with one
another.  As much as we would all love to have a perfect line in the sand,
there isn't.  Don't rule anything out until the issue is resolved.

As someone that sees this in the field and watches people simply hate on
someone because there's a frustrating situation, it's worth taking a breath
before too upset.

On Tue, Mar 29, 2022 at 2:50 PM Joe Greco  wrote:

> On Tue, Mar 29, 2022 at 11:21:28AM -0700, Aaron de Bruyn via NANOG wrote:
> > I just got off the phone with a Comcast tech, and wanted to double-check
> my
> > sanity.
> >
> > Somehow in the last 6 months I've managed to reach the exact same rep
> twice
> > when dealing with an outage or a degraded service event.
> >
> > I asked him to remotely reboot the modem because there was high packet
> loss.
> >
> > Both times I've talked with him, he noted the high packet loss, started
> to
> > reboot the modem, and then asked me point-blank if we had any PoE
> switches
> > on our network.
> >
> > When I said "yes", he said I needed to disable PoE because it messes with
> > the Comcast modems and he can see "buildups" in his graphs that show
> power
> > is "leaking" to the Comcast modem every 24 hours.
> >
> > For reference, our setup is:
> >
> > Internal Network ?? PoE Switch ?? My Router (FreeBSD Box) ??
> Comcast Modem
> >
> > I told him the Comcast modem isn't plugged into the PoE Switch, it's
> > plugged into My Router (FreeBSD box) and My Router does not negotiate
> PoE+
> > and the switch shows PoE isn't being send to My Router's LAN port. While
> > the switch is capable of outputting old-school 24v PoE, it must be
> > specifically turned on for a port, and it's not enabled or used anywhere
> on
> > the networks I manage.
> >
> > When provided with that information, the Comcast tech still insisted that
> > the switch was sending PoE to My Router and it was "leaking through" to
> the
> > Comcast modem and that's why every 4-6 weeks the Comcast modem needs to
> be
> > reset. The tech insisted that switches that *are* PoE-capable *always*
> send
> > PoE even if the device doesn't request it or negotiate it. Attempts to
> > explain the difference between the old 24-volt PoE and PoE+/++ were met
> > with arguing that he's been in the industry for decades and I don't know
> > what I'm talking about...and that all my problems would go away if I just
> > disabled PoE everywhere on the switch.
> >
> > Again, I double-checked the port and said "It's not sending PoE to my
> > router, but even if I were, I highly doubt PoE would leak through a PCI
> > card to the opposite side of the chassis to the on-board NIC and out to
> > your modem".
> >
> > He insisted it happened "all the time" and he had previously fried
> > equipment by plugging it into a PoE switch. He insisted that he's also
> > handled quite a few calls relating to this magic PoE problem over the
> years
> > and Comcast has internal tools that show graphs of how much PoE power
> > "builds up" inside their modems and he "can see a buildup in my router
> that
> > resets every 24 hours".
> >
> > I didn't have the heart to tell him that I manage about 40 networks that
> > have Comcast connections...and they *all* have identical FreeBSD boxes
> > acting as their router, and they are *all* using the exact same PoE
> > switches at every location with all ports set to PoE+...and we only have
> > degraded service or outages after ~30 days at ~3 locations.
> >
> > Slightly off-topic, but if I call Comcast about outages or degraded
> service
> > and any *other* tech but this guy answers, they all say "you need to
> unplug
> > your Comcast modem and plug it back in once every 3-4 weeks" and they act
> > like it's normal to reboot the modems every few weeks. In fact, last
> week I
> > wanted Comcast to check on a modem setting at one location and they said
> > the modem had been up for over 127 days and it should be rebooted. I said
> > "it's up and working fine, why would I reboot it?".
> >
> > Anyways, am I insane for thinking the tech was flat-out wrong? I
> > mean...occasionally some really bizarre stuff happens in IT...but this
> > seems extremely far-fetched and contrary to everything I know about the
> PoE
> > standard.
>
> That's ridiculous, as you already know.
>
> Their crappy equipment needing rebooting every few weeks, not ridiculous.
>
> Their purchasing gear from incompetent vendors who cannot be standards
> compliant for PoE PD negotiation, tragically plausible.
>
> Ethernet electronic differential signalling not being handled properly
> with respect to grounding or other issues, not unheard-of.
>
> Ghosts of PoE floating around a network through other devices, causing
> weird problems on the far side of properly installed and standards
> compliant
> gear, ah, super-unlikely, I'll go so far as to say nah, but in this
> audience
> I am 

Re: ISP data collection from home routers

[Josh Luthman]

Friends only Facebook?  Do you think Facebook, the company with the data,
cares if you have a particular flag set???

Who cares about the SSID???

On Thu, Mar 24, 2022 at 9:40 AM Lady Benjamin Cannon of Glencoe, ASCE <
l...@6by7.net> wrote:

> Without disagreeing that privacy concerns in general are rapidly becoming
> extinct with generations…
>
> Surely you are not suggesting that my friends-only Facebook profile is
> somehow publishing my WiFi SSID?
>
> (For example)
>
> Ms. Lady Benjamin PD Cannon of Glencoe, ASCE
> 6x7 Networks & 6x7 Telecom, LLC
> CEO
> l...@6by7.net
> "The only fully end-to-end encrypted global telecommunications company
> in the world.”
>
> FCC License KJ6FJJ
>
> Sent from my iPhone via RFC1149.
>
> On Mar 24, 2022, at 6:26 AM, Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
>
> 
> I'm surprised we're having this discussion about an internet device that
> the customer is using to publicize all of their information on Facebook and
> Twitter.  Consumers do not care enough about their privacy to the point
> where they are providing the information willingly.
>
> >Consumers should have legal say in how or wether their data are harvested
> and also sold.
>
> They do. https://www.fcc.gov/general/customer-privacy
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 24, 2022 at 9:12 AM Lady Benjamin Cannon of Glencoe, ASCE <
> l...@6by7.net> wrote:
>
>> This is an enormous problem, see:
>> https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2021/10/ftc-staff-report-finds-many-internet-service-providers-collect-troves-personal-data-users-have-few
>>
>> Consumers should have legal say in how or wether their data are harvested
>> and also sold.
>>
>> Ms. Lady Benjamin PD Cannon of Glencoe, ASCE
>> 6x7 Networks & 6x7 Telecom, LLC
>> CEO
>> l...@6by7.net
>> "The only fully end-to-end encrypted global telecommunications company
>> in the world.”
>>
>> FCC License KJ6FJJ
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone via RFC1149.
>>
>> On Mar 24, 2022, at 3:44 AM, Giovane C. M. Moura via NANOG <
>> nanog@nanog.org> wrote:
>>
>> Hello there,
>>
>> Several years ago, a friend of mine was working for a large telco and his
>> job was to detect which clients had the worst networking experience.
>>
>> To do that, the telco had this hadoop cluster, where it collected _tons_
>> of data from home users routers, and his job was to use ML to tell the
>> signal from the noise.
>>
>> I remember seeing a sample csv from this data, which contained
>> _thousands_ of data fields (features) from each client.
>>
>> I was _shocked_ by the amount of (meta)data they are able to pull from
>> home routers. These even included your wifi network name _and_ password!
>> (it's been several years since then).
>>
>> And home users are _completely_ unaware of this.
>>
>> So my question to you folks is:
>>
>> - What's the policy regulations on this? I don't remember the features
>> (thousands) but I'm pretty sure you could some profiling with it.
>>
>> - Is anyone aware of any public discussion on this? I have never seen it.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Giovane Moura
>>
>>

Re: ISP data collection from home routers

[Josh Luthman]

I'm surprised we're having this discussion about an internet device that
the customer is using to publicize all of their information on Facebook and
Twitter.  Consumers do not care enough about their privacy to the point
where they are providing the information willingly.

>Consumers should have legal say in how or wether their data are harvested
and also sold.

They do. https://www.fcc.gov/general/customer-privacy


On Thu, Mar 24, 2022 at 9:12 AM Lady Benjamin Cannon of Glencoe, ASCE <
l...@6by7.net> wrote:

> This is an enormous problem, see:
> https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2021/10/ftc-staff-report-finds-many-internet-service-providers-collect-troves-personal-data-users-have-few
>
> Consumers should have legal say in how or wether their data are harvested
> and also sold.
>
> Ms. Lady Benjamin PD Cannon of Glencoe, ASCE
> 6x7 Networks & 6x7 Telecom, LLC
> CEO
> l...@6by7.net
> "The only fully end-to-end encrypted global telecommunications company
> in the world.”
>
> FCC License KJ6FJJ
>
> Sent from my iPhone via RFC1149.
>
> On Mar 24, 2022, at 3:44 AM, Giovane C. M. Moura via NANOG <
> nanog@nanog.org> wrote:
>
> Hello there,
>
> Several years ago, a friend of mine was working for a large telco and his
> job was to detect which clients had the worst networking experience.
>
> To do that, the telco had this hadoop cluster, where it collected _tons_
> of data from home users routers, and his job was to use ML to tell the
> signal from the noise.
>
> I remember seeing a sample csv from this data, which contained _thousands_
> of data fields (features) from each client.
>
> I was _shocked_ by the amount of (meta)data they are able to pull from
> home routers. These even included your wifi network name _and_ password!
> (it's been several years since then).
>
> And home users are _completely_ unaware of this.
>
> So my question to you folks is:
>
> - What's the policy regulations on this? I don't remember the features
> (thousands) but I'm pretty sure you could some profiling with it.
>
> - Is anyone aware of any public discussion on this? I have never seen it.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Giovane Moura
>
>

Re: VPN-enabled advance fee fraud

[Josh Luthman]

What if they're actively connected and you get a subpoena?

On Mon, Mar 21, 2022 at 1:30 PM TJ Trout  wrote:

> ExpressVPN does NOT and WILL NEVER log:
> IP addresses (source or VPN)
>
> Browsing history
>
> Traffic destination or metadata
>
> DNS queries
>
> We have carefully engineered our apps and VPN servers to categorically
> eliminate sensitive information. As a result, ExpressVPN can never be
> compelled to provide customer data that does not exist.
>
> On Mon, Mar 21, 2022, 7:11 AM Andrew G. Watters 
> wrote:
>
>> Nutshell version: a group of criminals who appear to be in Mexico have
>> created an entire fake law firm and deal flow in the U.S., with
>> Photoshopped notary seals and wire instructions.  They reportedly use
>> ExpressVPN-- the owner of the IP block used by the suspects states that
>> it leased the IP block to ExpressVPN under a Letter of Authorization.
>>
>> The suspects make money by causing victims to wire advance fees to
>> Mexico as part of selling their timeshares, and possibly other
>> transactions.  My client has lost $70k or so thus far.  He has received
>> legit-looking documents, but upon even a cursory electronic inspection
>> they are obvious forgeries.  So this gang is savvy enough to steal
>> money, but really reckless as well, which may explain why they are
>> risking clicking on my links as well.  I spoke with the lawyer who they
>> are impersonating, and it was news to him that he is in New York City
>> running a law firm considering that he retired in another state many
>> years ago.
>>
>> So the suspects are offshore and I'm not sure what I can do.  But I
>> would still rather have their IP addresses than nothing.  Can I have a
>> recommendation on the best way to pursue user data from VPN providers
>> such as ExpressVPN?  I already sent in a notice to preserve logs for the
>> involved ASN, and I'm headed to Federal court in the next few days to
>> see if I have a chance to get even some of the victim's money back-- or
>> at least an injunction shutting down the suspects' online presence.  Any
>> tips on getting VPN user data (or best practices in this type of
>> situation) would be greatly appreciated.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Andrew Watters
>>
>> --
>> Andrew G. Watters
>> Rællic Systems
>> and...@raellic.com
>> +1 (415) 261-8527
>> https://www.raellic.com
>>
>

Re: V6 still widely supported (was Re: CC: s to Non List Members,

[Josh Luthman]

Verizon Wireless does have v6.  I see a 100.64/24 on my phone all the time.

On Fri, Mar 11, 2022 at 4:11 PM John Covici  wrote:

> Verizon does not support ipv6 as far as I know, I have fios and they
> said it was not supported.
>
> On Fri, 11 Mar 2022 15:20:48 -0500,
> John Levine wrote:
> >
> > It appears that Joe Maimon  said:
> > >higher penetration of native v6, I would restate that a bit more
> > >conservatively as
> > >
> > >Google's statistics are likely a fair barometer for USA usage in the
> > >large content provider arena which have a strong mobile representation.
> >
> > AT, Comcast, and Charter/Spectrum, the three largest cable companies,
> have IPv6
> > support.  I expect a lot of Google searches and Gmail messages come from
> them, too.
> >
> > I think it's more accurate to say that large networks have looked at the
> > costs and implemented IPv6.  Small networks, many of which have no need
> > to expand beyond their existing IPv4 allocations, largely have not.
> >
> > Of course, there are a lot more small networks than large ones, even
> though
> > they don't necessarily represent many users, so guess who we hear from?
> >
> > R"s,
> > John
>
> --
> Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
> How do
> you spend it?
>
>  John Covici wb2una
>  cov...@ccs.covici.com
>

Re: V6 still not supported

[Josh Luthman]

>but nowadays, some are going all v6.

Where is there v6 only services/content?

>v4-only ISPs will be at a competitive disadvantage

That's such a wild claim I'd love to know where you come to that
conclusion.  In my rural market, we're the only option for service, simple
as that.  In the urban areas we find it's all about price promos to get the
customer the lowest price.  These same people can't tell the difference
between three different companies (we were installing fiber next door and a
guy kept asking us if we were Spectrum, he simply didn't understand we were
a different company).  They don't understand the difference between the
internet and WiFi.  Yet they'll prefer a v6 ISP over a v4 ISP?  Come on.

On Thu, Mar 10, 2022 at 3:24 PM netElastic Systems 
wrote:

> FWIW, most of my ISPs all know about dual stack and want it.  I think the
> legacy websites, CPE and applications that hard code IPv4 make it a tough
> battle - it's easier to just support v4, but nowadays, some are going all
> v6.  At some point, v4-only ISPs will be at a competitive disadvantage.
> ISPs that force this will not have to buy CGNAT or spend $60 on a v4
> address, but yes, it's still a tough slog.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: NANOG  On Behalf
> Of
> Tim Howe
> Sent: Wednesday, March 9, 2022 2:40 PM
> To: Josh Luthman ; nanog@nanog.org
> Subject: Re: V6 still not supported
>
> On Wed, 9 Mar 2022 16:46:56 -0500
> Josh Luthman  wrote:
>
> > ISP here.  Deploying gigabit FTTH.  No IPv6.
> >
> > Customers have 0 complaints about IPv6.  0 Complaints since 2006.
>
> Right.  And this view point (which I have /some/ sympathy for) is what
> we're
> up against.  The average person doesn't know IPv6 is a thing, so of course
> they aren't going to ask for it. But they don't know IPv4 is a thing
> either,
> they just want to connect to the Internet.
>
> It seems to require an unusual, and difficult-to-justify, drive to
> make IPv6 happen as part of a forward-looking strategy.
>
> ISPs don't deploy it because equipment vendors don't really supply
> it (or barely).  Equipment vendors don't supply it because ISPs don't ask
> for it (at least that's what my vendors tell me, and I don't think they are
> lying).
>
> Our standard PON and Metro services are dual-stack by default -
> commercial and residential.  Our supplied CPEs are dual stack by default.
> We offer IPv6 in a variety of configurations on every connectivity product
> that will support it.
>
> However, I do not really blame those who don't, because in order to
> get where we are I had to make it my personal mission in life to get to a
> passive FTTP configuration that would work with functional parity between
> v4
> and v6...
> For over a year I had to test gear, which requires a lot of time
> and
> effort and study and support and managerial latitude.  I had to isolate
> bugs
> and spend the time reporting them, which often means making a pain in the
> butt out of yourself and championing the issue with the vendor (sometimes
> it
> means committing to buying things).  I had to INSIST on support from
> vendors
> and refuse to buy things that didn't work.  I had to buy new gear I would
> not have otherwise needed.
> I also had to "fire" a couple of vendors and purge them from my network; I
> even sent back an entire shipment of gear to a vendor due to broken
> promises.
>
> Basically I had to be extremely unreasonable.  My position is
> unique
> in that I was able to do these things and get away with it.  I can't blame
> anyone for not going down that road.  I'm still waiting to feel like it was
> worth it.
>
> --TimH
>
>
>

Re: V6 still not supported

[Josh Luthman]

Absolutely.  This makes for good discussion.

Strictly on the FTTH end of things to make it simpler (since that's where
our growth is).  We're very much residential with the commercial customers
being farmers, home based mechanics/construction/horse stables, and the
like - less Netflix and more websites.

1.  Our ONT (gpon+nat+wifi) I'm all but certain would work out of the box.
Now if the customer wants their own router in which case I guess we force
them into one methodology for v6 (correct me if I'm wrong but there isn't a
standard way to deploy v6 globally like DHCP, it needs RA which leads into
obvious issues with the kid's 14 antenna Netgear).
2.  Calix supports it (OLT), I suppose we would just need to enable v6 on
the DNS servers and we're done
3.  I don't believe our software supports it, but I'm not certain,
obviously I haven't looked

The biggest issue you completely left out is operational.  I'd have to
spend time adding on v6, which is a bit of a time sink but at least there's
a nearby finish line.  Time I'm not getting fiber hooked up to houses.  Now
when (not if, we all know nothing is perfect) there are issues with v6 but
not v4 I have to figure out why "my internet is slow" when v6 has
problems.  Setting something up once, be it fiber or v6, is a one time
capex.  Ongoing support problems are indefinite opex.

On Thu, Mar 10, 2022 at 10:20 AM Tom Beecher  wrote:

> I would like to ask an earnest question here, because I work in an
> environment where IPv6 has been deployed for more than a decade, and it's
> just automatically part of things we do and have to solve for, so I will
> openly admit my perspective can be warped. I am truly curious about what
> the perceived blockers are for you, and others with the same perspective.
>
> You appear to run a residential ISP. There are essentially 3 things you
> would have to do to deploy IPv6.
>
> 1. CPE would need to support it.
> 2. Your network infrastructure would have to support it.
> 3. Subscriber services ( DHCP / DNS / IPAM ) would have to support it.
>
> Putting aside the 'zero value' idea, if you were to decide to take steps
> today , what are your blockers?
>
> On Thu, Mar 10, 2022 at 9:59 AM Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
>
>> Gary,
>>
>> I'm the owner of the business.  I answer a lot of tier 1 support calls.
>> I read every single ticket summary.  It's not denial, it's just that I'm
>> small enough to be able to follow up on every support issue.  You can claim
>> bull if you want but my evidence can beat up your claim.
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 9, 2022 at 5:55 PM Gary E. Miller  wrote:
>>
>>> Yo Josh!
>>>
>>> On Wed, 9 Mar 2022 16:46:56 -0500
>>> Josh Luthman  wrote:
>>>
>>> > Customers have 0 complaints about IPv6.  0 Complaints since 2006.
>>>
>>> Bull.  I have not complained to any corporation in the last 5 years
>>> where the stanard response was not "We've never heard that complaint
>>> before".  recently every one I my street complained about the same
>>> things at the same time, but we all got that response.
>>>
>>> Denial ain't just a river in Egypt.
>>>
>>> RGDS
>>> GARY
>>>
>>> ---
>>> Gary E. Miller Rellim 109 NW Wilmington Ave., Suite E, Bend, OR 97703
>>> g...@rellim.com  Tel:+1 541 382 8588
>>>
>>> Veritas liberabit vos. -- Quid est veritas?
>>> "If you can't measure it, you can't improve it." - Lord Kelvin
>>>
>>

Re: V6 still not supported

[Josh Luthman]

Gary,

I'm the owner of the business.  I answer a lot of tier 1 support calls.  I
read every single ticket summary.  It's not denial, it's just that I'm
small enough to be able to follow up on every support issue.  You can claim
bull if you want but my evidence can beat up your claim.

On Wed, Mar 9, 2022 at 5:55 PM Gary E. Miller  wrote:

> Yo Josh!
>
> On Wed, 9 Mar 2022 16:46:56 -0500
> Josh Luthman  wrote:
>
> > Customers have 0 complaints about IPv6.  0 Complaints since 2006.
>
> Bull.  I have not complained to any corporation in the last 5 years
> where the stanard response was not "We've never heard that complaint
> before".  recently every one I my street complained about the same
> things at the same time, but we all got that response.
>
> Denial ain't just a river in Egypt.
>
> RGDS
> GARY
> ---
> Gary E. Miller Rellim 109 NW Wilmington Ave., Suite E, Bend, OR 97703
> g...@rellim.com  Tel:+1 541 382 8588
>
> Veritas liberabit vos. -- Quid est veritas?
> "If you can't measure it, you can't improve it." - Lord Kelvin
>

Re: V6 still not supported

[Josh Luthman]

So you guys keep combining IPv4 and CGNAT.  These two things are not the
same.  They do not require each other.  If you're small, you get space
straight from ARIN (I got mine in January 2022).  If you're big, buy a
block (after completing an ARIN ticket!)  If you don't want to pay for a
big v4 block, then do the cheaper thing:  v6.  But you're still deploying
v4 anyway, it'll just be with (CG)NAT.

For me, I see 0 value in v6.  I do see customer issues and I have
experienced v6 (dual stack) issues myself.  So when I have customers
demanding I get them FTTH every day and 0 customers demanding I get v6,
which do you think I'm going to do?

On Wed, Mar 9, 2022 at 5:11 PM Tom Beecher  wrote:

> Customers have 0 complaints about IPv6.  0 Complaints since 2006.
>>
>
> Asserting that IPv6 shouldn't be a priority because 'nobody asks for it'
> is specious. What if customers saw Cloudflare's "isbgpsafeyet" site and
> demented you stop running BGP because it's "unsafe" ? Is that a valid
> reason?
>
> Customers care about 1 thing only : Does it work when I want to use it, or
> not. And a lot of ISPs have learned difficult lessons in the last couple
> years when the small handful of customers who would complain that their
> work VPN didn't work behind the CGNAT boxes they ran turned into a heck of
> a lot MORE customers complaining.
>
> On Wed, Mar 9, 2022 at 4:48 PM Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
>
>> ISP here.  Deploying gigabit FTTH.  No IPv6.
>>
>> Customers have 0 complaints about IPv6.  0 Complaints since 2006.
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 9, 2022 at 4:32 PM Grant Taylor via NANOG 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 3/9/22 1:01 PM, Jay Hennigan wrote:
>>> > It's not just equipment vendors, it's ISPs.
>>>
>>> I completely agree.
>>>
>>> I get why line of business applications; e.g. billing, provisioning,
>>> repair, haven't been updated to support IPv6.
>>>
>>> But I believe that any network equipment vendor that is (or has been for
>>> the last 1-2 decades) selling /new/ equipment really has no excuse for
>>> not IPv6 not having feature parity with IPv4.
>>>
>>> > Here in Oregon, Frontier was recently acquired by Ziply. They're doing
>>> > massive infrastructure work and recently started offering symmetrical
>>> > gigabit FTTH. This is a brand new greenfield PON deployment. No
>>> > IPv6. It took being transferred three times to reach a person who
>>> > even knew what it was.
>>>
>>> I've had similar lack of success with my municipal GPON provider.  At
>>> least the people answering support tickets know what IPv6 is and know
>>> that it's on their future list without even being in planing / testing
>>> phase.
>>>
>>> > Likewise the Wave Broadband cable operator. No IPv6, no plans for it.
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Grant. . . .
>>> unix || die
>>>
>>>

Re: V6 still not supported

[Josh Luthman]

IPv4 doesn't require NAT.

But to answer your question, I would say most if not all of the complaints
about NAT/double NAT are the Xbox saying strict nat instead of open.  These
complaints are super rare.

On Wed, Mar 9, 2022 at 5:01 PM Michael Thomas  wrote:

>
> On 3/9/22 1:46 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>
> ISP here.  Deploying gigabit FTTH.  No IPv6.
>
> Customers have 0 complaints about IPv6.  0 Complaints since 2006.
>
> Do customers ever complain about double NAT's?
>
> Mike
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 9, 2022 at 4:32 PM Grant Taylor via NANOG 
> wrote:
>
>> On 3/9/22 1:01 PM, Jay Hennigan wrote:
>> > It's not just equipment vendors, it's ISPs.
>>
>> I completely agree.
>>
>> I get why line of business applications; e.g. billing, provisioning,
>> repair, haven't been updated to support IPv6.
>>
>> But I believe that any network equipment vendor that is (or has been for
>> the last 1-2 decades) selling /new/ equipment really has no excuse for
>> not IPv6 not having feature parity with IPv4.
>>
>> > Here in Oregon, Frontier was recently acquired by Ziply. They're doing
>> > massive infrastructure work and recently started offering symmetrical
>> > gigabit FTTH. This is a brand new greenfield PON deployment. No
>> > IPv6. It took being transferred three times to reach a person who
>> > even knew what it was.
>>
>> I've had similar lack of success with my municipal GPON provider.  At
>> least the people answering support tickets know what IPv6 is and know
>> that it's on their future list without even being in planing / testing
>> phase.
>>
>> > Likewise the Wave Broadband cable operator. No IPv6, no plans for it.
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Grant. . . .
>> unix || die
>>
>>

Re: V6 still not supported

[Josh Luthman]

ISP here.  Deploying gigabit FTTH.  No IPv6.

Customers have 0 complaints about IPv6.  0 Complaints since 2006.

On Wed, Mar 9, 2022 at 4:32 PM Grant Taylor via NANOG 
wrote:

> On 3/9/22 1:01 PM, Jay Hennigan wrote:
> > It's not just equipment vendors, it's ISPs.
>
> I completely agree.
>
> I get why line of business applications; e.g. billing, provisioning,
> repair, haven't been updated to support IPv6.
>
> But I believe that any network equipment vendor that is (or has been for
> the last 1-2 decades) selling /new/ equipment really has no excuse for
> not IPv6 not having feature parity with IPv4.
>
> > Here in Oregon, Frontier was recently acquired by Ziply. They're doing
> > massive infrastructure work and recently started offering symmetrical
> > gigabit FTTH. This is a brand new greenfield PON deployment. No
> > IPv6. It took being transferred three times to reach a person who
> > even knew what it was.
>
> I've had similar lack of success with my municipal GPON provider.  At
> least the people answering support tickets know what IPv6 is and know
> that it's on their future list without even being in planing / testing
> phase.
>
> > Likewise the Wave Broadband cable operator. No IPv6, no plans for it.
>
> 
>
>
>
> --
> Grant. . . .
> unix || die
>
>

Re: Starlink terminals deployed in Ukraine

[Josh Luthman]

As Google's ASN?

https://bgp.he.net/AS36492

On Tue, Mar 1, 2022 at 11:56 AM ic  wrote:

> Friends who have Starlink terminals in Europe (cz) go out through AS36492.
>
> > On 1 Mar 2022, at 05:48, Ong Beng Hui  wrote:
> >
> > Curious, will that be with starlink ASN then ?
> >
> > That throw geo detection via IP out right away.
>
>

Re: New minimum speed for US broadband connections

[Josh Luthman]

That is North Dakota, not population centers.  Click the link.

You're basing fiber availability everywhere on living?  That's a poor
excuse for data.

>These numbers are crap and nobody should believe them.

Lol ok but we should believe nearly 100% from you because you lived in a
couple places?

>but this is a problem that is more political than technical.

Strong disagreement here.  What makes you say this?

On Mon, Feb 28, 2022, 5:04 PM Brian Johnson 
wrote:

> I said North Dakota, not population centers (they are where the legacy
> LECs operate). I have lived and worked there for telecommunications Coops
> which device the land mass of the state. They had no issues providing the
> most cutting edge service to extremely rural areas. What is the excuse of
> the larger LECs? There are many regional Coops and CLECs starting to build
> out these population centers now. These numbers are crap and nobody should
> believe them.
>
> I realize there are differences between rural and urban deployments, but
> this is a problem that is more political than technical. In rural areas we
> are more interested in getting things done, while in urban areas we appear
> to be more interested in political wins.
>
>
> On Feb 28, 2022, at 3:29 PM, Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
>
> According to the 477 data it's less than 50% (updated 11/1/2021 and I
> think the public 477 is 2 years? behind)  What makes you believe it's
> nearly 100%?
>
> https://broadbandnow.com/North-Dakota
>
> On Mon, Feb 28, 2022 at 4:22 PM Brian Johnson 
> wrote:
>
>> Given this premise (that it is too expensive to provide access to rural
>> areas), can you explain why nearly 100% of North Dakota is serviced by FTTH
>> solutions. The exceptions being the areas still run by the traditional LECs?
>>
>> I’m not to sure this should be an urban/rural debate.
>>
>> On Feb 28, 2022, at 2:53 PM, Josh Luthman 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Ryan,
>>
>> This discussion was in regards to urban areas.
>>
>> Regarding your example, though, I expect you're in a hard to reach rural
>> area based on your description.  It looks like there are absolutely a
>> massive amount of trees, making it hard for fixed wireless.  Since it
>> sounds like your only option, which is better than no option at all, that's
>> probably why no wired solution has decided to build service there.  At
>> $50k/mile being a pretty modest cost, at $200/mo does that seem like a
>> viable business plan to you?
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 25, 2022 at 11:25 PM Ryan Rawdon  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On Feb 16, 2022, at 4:46 PM, Michael Thomas  wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/16/22 1:36 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>>>
>>> What is the embarrassment?
>>>
>>> That in the tech center of the world that we're so embarrassingly behind
>>> the times with broadband. I'm going to get fiber in the rural Sierra Nevada
>>> before Silicon Valley. In fact, I already have it, they just haven't
>>> installed the NID.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>>
>>> I will provide another specific example albeit not San Jose but similar
>>> enough.  I am in  Loudoun County less than 25 minutes from Ashburn, VA.
>>>  My best option is fixed wireless from All Points Broadband (hi Tim) which
>>> is 15/3mbit/s costing $199/mo (they have cheaper, slower tiers available).
>>>
>>> Verizon FiOS serves a dense developer-built community less than 1 mile
>>> down the street from me, but everyone else outside of the towns and
>>> developer-built communities have almost zero options.
>>>
>>> Similar to the San Jose examples, we are near some of the most dense
>>> connectivity in the world.  Travel 20-30 minutes in certain directions from
>>> Ashburn and you’re quickly seeing farms and limited connectivity.
>>>
>>> Ryan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 16, 2022 at 4:28 PM Michael Thomas  wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 2/16/22 1:13 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I'll once again please ask for specific examples as I continue to see
>>>> the generic "it isn't in some parts of San Jose".
>>>>
>>>> On the note of the generic area of San Jose, I'm all but certain this
>>>> has a lot to do with California and its extraordinarily complicated and
>>>> near impossible accessibility to obtain CLEC status.  This makes
>>>> competition pretty much impossible and makes the costs of operating one
>>>> extraordinarily high.  I'm obviously not going to be one that claim

Re: New minimum speed for US broadband connections

[Josh Luthman]

According to the 477 data it's less than 50% (updated 11/1/2021 and I think
the public 477 is 2 years? behind)  What makes you believe it's nearly 100%?

https://broadbandnow.com/North-Dakota

On Mon, Feb 28, 2022 at 4:22 PM Brian Johnson 
wrote:

> Given this premise (that it is too expensive to provide access to rural
> areas), can you explain why nearly 100% of North Dakota is serviced by FTTH
> solutions. The exceptions being the areas still run by the traditional LECs?
>
> I’m not to sure this should be an urban/rural debate.
>
> On Feb 28, 2022, at 2:53 PM, Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
>
> Ryan,
>
> This discussion was in regards to urban areas.
>
> Regarding your example, though, I expect you're in a hard to reach rural
> area based on your description.  It looks like there are absolutely a
> massive amount of trees, making it hard for fixed wireless.  Since it
> sounds like your only option, which is better than no option at all, that's
> probably why no wired solution has decided to build service there.  At
> $50k/mile being a pretty modest cost, at $200/mo does that seem like a
> viable business plan to you?
>
> On Fri, Feb 25, 2022 at 11:25 PM Ryan Rawdon  wrote:
>
>>
>> On Feb 16, 2022, at 4:46 PM, Michael Thomas  wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 2/16/22 1:36 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>>
>> What is the embarrassment?
>>
>> That in the tech center of the world that we're so embarrassingly behind
>> the times with broadband. I'm going to get fiber in the rural Sierra Nevada
>> before Silicon Valley. In fact, I already have it, they just haven't
>> installed the NID.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>> I will provide another specific example albeit not San Jose but similar
>> enough.  I am in  Loudoun County less than 25 minutes from Ashburn, VA.
>>  My best option is fixed wireless from All Points Broadband (hi Tim) which
>> is 15/3mbit/s costing $199/mo (they have cheaper, slower tiers available).
>>
>> Verizon FiOS serves a dense developer-built community less than 1 mile
>> down the street from me, but everyone else outside of the towns and
>> developer-built communities have almost zero options.
>>
>> Similar to the San Jose examples, we are near some of the most dense
>> connectivity in the world.  Travel 20-30 minutes in certain directions from
>> Ashburn and you’re quickly seeing farms and limited connectivity.
>>
>> Ryan
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 16, 2022 at 4:28 PM Michael Thomas  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On 2/16/22 1:13 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>>>
>>> I'll once again please ask for specific examples as I continue to see
>>> the generic "it isn't in some parts of San Jose".
>>>
>>> On the note of the generic area of San Jose, I'm all but certain this
>>> has a lot to do with California and its extraordinarily complicated and
>>> near impossible accessibility to obtain CLEC status.  This makes
>>> competition pretty much impossible and makes the costs of operating one
>>> extraordinarily high.  I'm obviously not going to be one that claims that
>>> government is good or bad, just pointing out a certain correlation which
>>> could potentially be causation.
>>>
>>> Sonic has been installing fiber in San Francisco and other areas, but
>>> they are really small. Comcast can't be bothered that I've ever heard. The
>>> only other real alternative is things like Monkeybrains which is a WISP.
>>> It's really an embarrassment.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 16, 2022 at 12:52 PM Owen DeLong  wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Feb 11, 2022, at 13:14 , Josh Luthman 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Because literally every case I've seen along these lines is someone
>>>> complaining about the coax connection is "only 100 meg when I pay for 200
>>>> meg".  Comcast was the most hated company and yet they factually had better
>>>> speeds (possibly in part to their subjectively terrible customer service)
>>>> for years.
>>>>
>>>> >An apartment building could have cheap 1G fiber and the houses across
>>>> the street have no option but slow DSL.
>>>>
>>>> Where is this example?  Or is this strictly hypothetical?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> There are literally dozens (if not thousands) of such examples in
>>>> silicon valley alone.
>>>>
>>>> I am not seeing any examples, anywhere, with accurate data, where it's
>

Re: New minimum speed for US broadband connections

[Josh Luthman]

Ryan,

This discussion was in regards to urban areas.

Regarding your example, though, I expect you're in a hard to reach rural
area based on your description.  It looks like there are absolutely a
massive amount of trees, making it hard for fixed wireless.  Since it
sounds like your only option, which is better than no option at all, that's
probably why no wired solution has decided to build service there.  At
$50k/mile being a pretty modest cost, at $200/mo does that seem like a
viable business plan to you?

On Fri, Feb 25, 2022 at 11:25 PM Ryan Rawdon  wrote:

>
> On Feb 16, 2022, at 4:46 PM, Michael Thomas  wrote:
>
>
> On 2/16/22 1:36 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>
> What is the embarrassment?
>
> That in the tech center of the world that we're so embarrassingly behind
> the times with broadband. I'm going to get fiber in the rural Sierra Nevada
> before Silicon Valley. In fact, I already have it, they just haven't
> installed the NID.
>
> Mike
>
>
> I will provide another specific example albeit not San Jose but similar
> enough.  I am in  Loudoun County less than 25 minutes from Ashburn, VA.
>  My best option is fixed wireless from All Points Broadband (hi Tim) which
> is 15/3mbit/s costing $199/mo (they have cheaper, slower tiers available).
>
> Verizon FiOS serves a dense developer-built community less than 1 mile
> down the street from me, but everyone else outside of the towns and
> developer-built communities have almost zero options.
>
> Similar to the San Jose examples, we are near some of the most dense
> connectivity in the world.  Travel 20-30 minutes in certain directions from
> Ashburn and you’re quickly seeing farms and limited connectivity.
>
> Ryan
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 16, 2022 at 4:28 PM Michael Thomas  wrote:
>
>>
>> On 2/16/22 1:13 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>>
>> I'll once again please ask for specific examples as I continue to see the
>> generic "it isn't in some parts of San Jose".
>>
>> On the note of the generic area of San Jose, I'm all but certain this has
>> a lot to do with California and its extraordinarily complicated and near
>> impossible accessibility to obtain CLEC status.  This makes competition
>> pretty much impossible and makes the costs of operating one extraordinarily
>> high.  I'm obviously not going to be one that claims that government is
>> good or bad, just pointing out a certain correlation which could
>> potentially be causation.
>>
>> Sonic has been installing fiber in San Francisco and other areas, but
>> they are really small. Comcast can't be bothered that I've ever heard. The
>> only other real alternative is things like Monkeybrains which is a WISP.
>> It's really an embarrassment.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 16, 2022 at 12:52 PM Owen DeLong  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Feb 11, 2022, at 13:14 , Josh Luthman 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Because literally every case I've seen along these lines is someone
>>> complaining about the coax connection is "only 100 meg when I pay for 200
>>> meg".  Comcast was the most hated company and yet they factually had better
>>> speeds (possibly in part to their subjectively terrible customer service)
>>> for years.
>>>
>>> >An apartment building could have cheap 1G fiber and the houses across
>>> the street have no option but slow DSL.
>>>
>>> Where is this example?  Or is this strictly hypothetical?
>>>
>>>
>>> There are literally dozens (if not thousands) of such examples in
>>> silicon valley alone.
>>>
>>> I am not seeing any examples, anywhere, with accurate data, where it's
>>> what most consider to be in town/urban and poor speeds.  The only one that
>>> was close was Jared and I'm pretty sure when I saw the map I wouldn't
>>> consider that in town (could be wrong) but again, there's gig fiber there
>>> now.  I don't remember if he actually got his CLEC, or why that matters,
>>> but there's fiber there now.
>>>
>>>
>>> Pretty sure you would have a hard time calling San Jose “not in town”.
>>> It’s literally #11 in the largest 200 cities in the US with a population of
>>> 1,003,120 (954,940 in the 2010 census) and a population density of 5,642
>>> people/sq. mile (compare to #4 Houston, TX at 3,632/Sq. Mi.).
>>>
>>> Similar conditions exist in parts of Los Angeles, #2 on the same list at
>>> 3,985,516 (3,795,512 in 2010 census) and 8,499/Sq. Mi.
>>>
>>> I speak of California because it’s where I have the most information.
>

Re: BANDWIDTH and VONAGE lose FCC rules exemption for STIR/SHAKEN

[Josh Luthman]

Mine exploded since the requirement date.  Some mornings I get a dozen
before lunch.

On Fri, Feb 18, 2022 at 2:33 PM Michael Thomas  wrote:

>
> On 2/17/22 11:58 AM, Sean Donelan wrote:
> >
> >
> https://www.fcc.gov/document/fcc-finds-two-providers-failed-fully-implement-stirshaken-0
> >
> >
> > The Federal Communications Commission today took action to ensure that
> > voice service providers meet their commitments and obligations to
> > implement STIR/SHAKEN standards to combat spoofed robocall scams.
> > Specifically, voice service providers Bandwidth and Vonage lost a
> > partial exemption from STIR/SHAKEN because they failed to meet
> > STIR/SHAKEN implementation commitments and have been referred to the
> > FCC’s Enforcement Bureau for further investigation.
>
>
> So for probably a year or so before the Stir/Shaken mandate came, I have
> been seeing a lot less phone spam. I don't know if that's typical but it
> was quite noticeable for me. What that tells me is that providers likely
> started clamping down on their shady customers well ahead of the mandate
> which says that regulatory fiat would have been sufficient too. But that
> hinges on whether my situation is typical though.
>
> Mike
>
>

Re: New minimum speed for US broadband connections

[Josh Luthman]

Start with a neighborhood.  A block.  something.  I'm sure there's a reason
behind why something is the way it is.

On Wed, Feb 16, 2022 at 5:10 PM Owen DeLong  wrote:

>
>
> On Feb 16, 2022, at 13:13, Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
>
> 
> I'll once again please ask for specific examples as I continue to see the
> generic "it isn't in some parts of San Jose".
>
>
> There are many such parts of San Jose. How specific do you want? Most of
> the residential areas served by the Evergreen central office specific
> enough for you?
>
> My house specific enough for you? (No, I won’t be posting my address to
> NANOG).
>
> On the note of the generic area of San Jose, I'm all but certain this has
> a lot to do with California and its extraordinarily complicated and near
> impossible accessibility to obtain CLEC status.
>
>
> My complaint here is that the ILECs are incentivized by USF$$ to put their
> resources into rural, ignoring mezzo-urban and sub-urban customers. So I
> don’t think your CLEC rant has much to do with that.
>
> This makes competition pretty much impossible and makes the costs of
> operating one extraordinarily high.  I'm obviously not going to be one that
> claims that government is good or bad, just pointing out a certain
> correlation which could potentially be causation.
>
>
> I won’t deny that it could be a factor in the overall lack of competition
> and I agree that process is long overdue for a tuneup. However, it’s not
> the root cause of the repatriation of customer dollars from mezzo-urban and
> sub-urban areas into rural infrastructure investment to the exclusion of
> investment in those areas.
>
> Frankly, the simple solution to that problem would be to require that any
> [IC]LEC receiving USF dollars provide a level of service to their USF donor
> customers that is at least on par with the service they provide to their
> USF beneficiary customers.
>
> Owen
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 16, 2022 at 12:52 PM Owen DeLong  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Feb 11, 2022, at 13:14 , Josh Luthman 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Because literally every case I've seen along these lines is someone
>> complaining about the coax connection is "only 100 meg when I pay for 200
>> meg".  Comcast was the most hated company and yet they factually had better
>> speeds (possibly in part to their subjectively terrible customer service)
>> for years.
>>
>> >An apartment building could have cheap 1G fiber and the houses across
>> the street have no option but slow DSL.
>>
>> Where is this example?  Or is this strictly hypothetical?
>>
>>
>> There are literally dozens (if not thousands) of such examples in silicon
>> valley alone.
>>
>> I am not seeing any examples, anywhere, with accurate data, where it's
>> what most consider to be in town/urban and poor speeds.  The only one that
>> was close was Jared and I'm pretty sure when I saw the map I wouldn't
>> consider that in town (could be wrong) but again, there's gig fiber there
>> now.  I don't remember if he actually got his CLEC, or why that matters,
>> but there's fiber there now.
>>
>>
>> Pretty sure you would have a hard time calling San Jose “not in town”.
>> It’s literally #11 in the largest 200 cities in the US with a population of
>> 1,003,120 (954,940 in the 2010 census) and a population density of 5,642
>> people/sq. mile (compare to #4 Houston, TX at 3,632/Sq. Mi.).
>>
>> Similar conditions exist in parts of Los Angeles, #2 on the same list at
>> 3,985,516 (3,795,512 in 2010 census) and 8,499/Sq. Mi.
>>
>> I speak of California because it’s where I have the most information. I’m
>> sure this situation exists in other states as well, but I don’t have actual
>> data.
>>
>> The simple reality is that there are three sets of incentives that
>> utilities tend to chase and neither of them provides for the mezzo-urban
>> and sub-urban parts of America…
>> 1. USF — Mostly supports rural deployments.
>> 2. Extreme High Density — High-Rise apartments in dense arrays, Not
>> areas of town houses, smaller apartment complexes, or single family
>> dwellings.
>> 3. Neighborhoods full of McMansions — Mostly built very recently and
>> where the developers would literally pay the utilities to pre-deploy in
>> order to boost sales prices.
>>
>> Outside of those incentives, there’s very little actual deployment of
>> broadband improvements, leaving vast quantities of average Americans
>> underserved.
>>
>> Owen
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 11, 2022 at 4:05 PM Brandon Svec via NANO

Re: New minimum speed for US broadband connections

[Josh Luthman]

But the location has an internet service.  Is it embarrassing because it
should have fiber or "better connectivity" because of its location?

On Wed, Feb 16, 2022 at 4:47 PM Michael Thomas  wrote:

>
> On 2/16/22 1:36 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>
> What is the embarrassment?
>
> That in the tech center of the world that we're so embarrassingly behind
> the times with broadband. I'm going to get fiber in the rural Sierra Nevada
> before Silicon Valley. In fact, I already have it, they just haven't
> installed the NID.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 16, 2022 at 4:28 PM Michael Thomas  wrote:
>
>>
>> On 2/16/22 1:13 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>>
>> I'll once again please ask for specific examples as I continue to see the
>> generic "it isn't in some parts of San Jose".
>>
>> On the note of the generic area of San Jose, I'm all but certain this has
>> a lot to do with California and its extraordinarily complicated and near
>> impossible accessibility to obtain CLEC status.  This makes competition
>> pretty much impossible and makes the costs of operating one extraordinarily
>> high.  I'm obviously not going to be one that claims that government is
>> good or bad, just pointing out a certain correlation which could
>> potentially be causation.
>>
>> Sonic has been installing fiber in San Francisco and other areas, but
>> they are really small. Comcast can't be bothered that I've ever heard. The
>> only other real alternative is things like Monkeybrains which is a WISP.
>> It's really an embarrassment.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 16, 2022 at 12:52 PM Owen DeLong  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Feb 11, 2022, at 13:14 , Josh Luthman 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Because literally every case I've seen along these lines is someone
>>> complaining about the coax connection is "only 100 meg when I pay for 200
>>> meg".  Comcast was the most hated company and yet they factually had better
>>> speeds (possibly in part to their subjectively terrible customer service)
>>> for years.
>>>
>>> >An apartment building could have cheap 1G fiber and the houses across
>>> the street have no option but slow DSL.
>>>
>>> Where is this example?  Or is this strictly hypothetical?
>>>
>>>
>>> There are literally dozens (if not thousands) of such examples in
>>> silicon valley alone.
>>>
>>> I am not seeing any examples, anywhere, with accurate data, where it's
>>> what most consider to be in town/urban and poor speeds.  The only one that
>>> was close was Jared and I'm pretty sure when I saw the map I wouldn't
>>> consider that in town (could be wrong) but again, there's gig fiber there
>>> now.  I don't remember if he actually got his CLEC, or why that matters,
>>> but there's fiber there now.
>>>
>>>
>>> Pretty sure you would have a hard time calling San Jose “not in town”.
>>> It’s literally #11 in the largest 200 cities in the US with a population of
>>> 1,003,120 (954,940 in the 2010 census) and a population density of 5,642
>>> people/sq. mile (compare to #4 Houston, TX at 3,632/Sq. Mi.).
>>>
>>> Similar conditions exist in parts of Los Angeles, #2 on the same list at
>>> 3,985,516 (3,795,512 in 2010 census) and 8,499/Sq. Mi.
>>>
>>> I speak of California because it’s where I have the most information.
>>> I’m sure this situation exists in other states as well, but I don’t have
>>> actual data.
>>>
>>> The simple reality is that there are three sets of incentives that
>>> utilities tend to chase and neither of them provides for the mezzo-urban
>>> and sub-urban parts of America…
>>> 1. USF — Mostly supports rural deployments.
>>> 2. Extreme High Density — High-Rise apartments in dense arrays, Not
>>> areas of town houses, smaller apartment complexes, or single family
>>> dwellings.
>>> 3. Neighborhoods full of McMansions — Mostly built very recently and
>>> where the developers would literally pay the utilities to pre-deploy in
>>> order to boost sales prices.
>>>
>>> Outside of those incentives, there’s very little actual deployment of
>>> broadband improvements, leaving vast quantities of average Americans
>>> underserved.
>>>
>>> Owen
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Feb 11, 2022 at 4:05 PM Brandon Svec via NANOG 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> What is the point of t

Re: New minimum speed for US broadband connections

[Josh Luthman]

What is the embarrassment?

On Wed, Feb 16, 2022 at 4:28 PM Michael Thomas  wrote:

>
> On 2/16/22 1:13 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>
> I'll once again please ask for specific examples as I continue to see the
> generic "it isn't in some parts of San Jose".
>
> On the note of the generic area of San Jose, I'm all but certain this has
> a lot to do with California and its extraordinarily complicated and near
> impossible accessibility to obtain CLEC status.  This makes competition
> pretty much impossible and makes the costs of operating one extraordinarily
> high.  I'm obviously not going to be one that claims that government is
> good or bad, just pointing out a certain correlation which could
> potentially be causation.
>
> Sonic has been installing fiber in San Francisco and other areas, but they
> are really small. Comcast can't be bothered that I've ever heard. The only
> other real alternative is things like Monkeybrains which is a WISP. It's
> really an embarrassment.
>
> Mike
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 16, 2022 at 12:52 PM Owen DeLong  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Feb 11, 2022, at 13:14 , Josh Luthman 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Because literally every case I've seen along these lines is someone
>> complaining about the coax connection is "only 100 meg when I pay for 200
>> meg".  Comcast was the most hated company and yet they factually had better
>> speeds (possibly in part to their subjectively terrible customer service)
>> for years.
>>
>> >An apartment building could have cheap 1G fiber and the houses across
>> the street have no option but slow DSL.
>>
>> Where is this example?  Or is this strictly hypothetical?
>>
>>
>> There are literally dozens (if not thousands) of such examples in silicon
>> valley alone.
>>
>> I am not seeing any examples, anywhere, with accurate data, where it's
>> what most consider to be in town/urban and poor speeds.  The only one that
>> was close was Jared and I'm pretty sure when I saw the map I wouldn't
>> consider that in town (could be wrong) but again, there's gig fiber there
>> now.  I don't remember if he actually got his CLEC, or why that matters,
>> but there's fiber there now.
>>
>>
>> Pretty sure you would have a hard time calling San Jose “not in town”.
>> It’s literally #11 in the largest 200 cities in the US with a population of
>> 1,003,120 (954,940 in the 2010 census) and a population density of 5,642
>> people/sq. mile (compare to #4 Houston, TX at 3,632/Sq. Mi.).
>>
>> Similar conditions exist in parts of Los Angeles, #2 on the same list at
>> 3,985,516 (3,795,512 in 2010 census) and 8,499/Sq. Mi.
>>
>> I speak of California because it’s where I have the most information. I’m
>> sure this situation exists in other states as well, but I don’t have actual
>> data.
>>
>> The simple reality is that there are three sets of incentives that
>> utilities tend to chase and neither of them provides for the mezzo-urban
>> and sub-urban parts of America…
>> 1. USF — Mostly supports rural deployments.
>> 2. Extreme High Density — High-Rise apartments in dense arrays, Not
>> areas of town houses, smaller apartment complexes, or single family
>> dwellings.
>> 3. Neighborhoods full of McMansions — Mostly built very recently and
>> where the developers would literally pay the utilities to pre-deploy in
>> order to boost sales prices.
>>
>> Outside of those incentives, there’s very little actual deployment of
>> broadband improvements, leaving vast quantities of average Americans
>> underserved.
>>
>> Owen
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 11, 2022 at 4:05 PM Brandon Svec via NANOG 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> What is the point of these anecdotes? Surely anyone on this list with
>>> even a passing knowledge of the broadband landscape in the United States
>>> knows how hit or miss it can be.  An apartment building could have cheap 1G
>>> fiber and the houses across the street have no option but slow DSL.  Houses
>>> could have reliable high speed cable internet, but the office park across
>>> the field has no such choice because the buildout cost is prohibitively
>>> high to get fiber, etc.
>>>
>>> There are plenty of places with only one or two choices of provider
>>> too.  Of course, this is literally changing by the minute as new
>>> services are continually being added and upgraded.
>>> *Brandon Svec*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Feb 11, 2022 at 12:36 PM Josh Luthman <
>>> j...@imaginenetworks

Re: New minimum speed for US broadband connections

[Josh Luthman]

I'll once again please ask for specific examples as I continue to see the
generic "it isn't in some parts of San Jose".

On the note of the generic area of San Jose, I'm all but certain this has a
lot to do with California and its extraordinarily complicated and near
impossible accessibility to obtain CLEC status.  This makes competition
pretty much impossible and makes the costs of operating one extraordinarily
high.  I'm obviously not going to be one that claims that government is
good or bad, just pointing out a certain correlation which could
potentially be causation.

On Wed, Feb 16, 2022 at 12:52 PM Owen DeLong  wrote:

>
>
> On Feb 11, 2022, at 13:14 , Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
>
> Because literally every case I've seen along these lines is someone
> complaining about the coax connection is "only 100 meg when I pay for 200
> meg".  Comcast was the most hated company and yet they factually had better
> speeds (possibly in part to their subjectively terrible customer service)
> for years.
>
> >An apartment building could have cheap 1G fiber and the houses across the
> street have no option but slow DSL.
>
> Where is this example?  Or is this strictly hypothetical?
>
>
> There are literally dozens (if not thousands) of such examples in silicon
> valley alone.
>
> I am not seeing any examples, anywhere, with accurate data, where it's
> what most consider to be in town/urban and poor speeds.  The only one that
> was close was Jared and I'm pretty sure when I saw the map I wouldn't
> consider that in town (could be wrong) but again, there's gig fiber there
> now.  I don't remember if he actually got his CLEC, or why that matters,
> but there's fiber there now.
>
>
> Pretty sure you would have a hard time calling San Jose “not in town”.
> It’s literally #11 in the largest 200 cities in the US with a population of
> 1,003,120 (954,940 in the 2010 census) and a population density of 5,642
> people/sq. mile (compare to #4 Houston, TX at 3,632/Sq. Mi.).
>
> Similar conditions exist in parts of Los Angeles, #2 on the same list at
> 3,985,516 (3,795,512 in 2010 census) and 8,499/Sq. Mi.
>
> I speak of California because it’s where I have the most information. I’m
> sure this situation exists in other states as well, but I don’t have actual
> data.
>
> The simple reality is that there are three sets of incentives that
> utilities tend to chase and neither of them provides for the mezzo-urban
> and sub-urban parts of America…
> 1. USF — Mostly supports rural deployments.
> 2. Extreme High Density — High-Rise apartments in dense arrays, Not areas
> of town houses, smaller apartment complexes, or single family dwellings.
> 3. Neighborhoods full of McMansions — Mostly built very recently and
> where the developers would literally pay the utilities to pre-deploy in
> order to boost sales prices.
>
> Outside of those incentives, there’s very little actual deployment of
> broadband improvements, leaving vast quantities of average Americans
> underserved.
>
> Owen
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 11, 2022 at 4:05 PM Brandon Svec via NANOG 
> wrote:
>
>> What is the point of these anecdotes? Surely anyone on this list with
>> even a passing knowledge of the broadband landscape in the United States
>> knows how hit or miss it can be.  An apartment building could have cheap 1G
>> fiber and the houses across the street have no option but slow DSL.  Houses
>> could have reliable high speed cable internet, but the office park across
>> the field has no such choice because the buildout cost is prohibitively
>> high to get fiber, etc.
>>
>> There are plenty of places with only one or two choices of provider too.
>> Of course, this is literally changing by the minute as new services are
>> continually being added and upgraded.
>> *Brandon Svec*
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 11, 2022 at 12:36 PM Josh Luthman <
>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>>
>>> OK the one example you provided has gigabit fiber though.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Feb 11, 2022 at 8:41 AM Tom Beecher  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Can you provide examples?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Twe6uTwOyJo_channel=NANOG
>>>>
>>>> Our good friend Jared could only get 1.5M DSL living just outside Ann
>>>> Arbor, MI, so he had to start his own CLEC.
>>>>
>>>> I have friends in significantly more rural areas than he lives in (
>>>> Niagara and Orleans county NYS , between Niagara Falls and Rochester ) who
>>>> have the same 400Mb package from Spectrum that I do, living in the City of
>>>> Niagara

Re: New minimum speed for US broadband connections

[Josh Luthman]

I believe what he said was "Comcast did eventually lay cable".  That was in
a brand new development.  It's a brand new house and got service right
away.  What more do you want from providers?

Out in the country, yes, there are the 10k to 100k build out costs all the
time.  But that's the country (rural).

On Fri, Feb 11, 2022 at 4:37 PM Brandon Svec via NANOG 
wrote:

> Excellent example.  I see this all.the.time. She could probably get
> Comcast just fine by paying $50k buildout or signing a 10 year agreement
> for TV/Phone/Internet and convincing 5 neighbors too ;)
> *Brandon *
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 11, 2022 at 1:32 PM Blake Hudson  wrote:
>
>> My mom moves to Olathe, KS. The realtor indicated that ATT, Comcast, and
>> Google Fiber all provided service to the neighborhood and the HOA
>> confirmed. Unfortunately for her, Google fiber laid fiber ~3 years
>> before and her cul-de-sac was developed ~2 years before she moved in. No
>> Google Fiber, no Comcast, just ATT. Both Comcast and Google Fiber were
>> within 100 ft of her property and wouldn't serve her. Google has no
>> plans to serve that cul-de-sac in the future. Comcast did eventually lay
>> cable. I'm sure her and her neighbors aren't the only people in America
>> to experience something similar.
>>
>> On 2/11/2022 3:14 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>> >
>> > >An apartment building could have cheap 1G fiber and the houses across
>> > the street have no option but slow DSL.
>> >
>> > Where is this example?  Or is this strictly hypothetical?
>> >
>> >
>>
>>

Re: New minimum speed for US broadband connections

[Josh Luthman]

Because literally every case I've seen along these lines is someone
complaining about the coax connection is "only 100 meg when I pay for 200
meg".  Comcast was the most hated company and yet they factually had better
speeds (possibly in part to their subjectively terrible customer service)
for years.

>An apartment building could have cheap 1G fiber and the houses across the
street have no option but slow DSL.

Where is this example?  Or is this strictly hypothetical?

I am not seeing any examples, anywhere, with accurate data, where it's what
most consider to be in town/urban and poor speeds.  The only one that was
close was Jared and I'm pretty sure when I saw the map I wouldn't consider
that in town (could be wrong) but again, there's gig fiber there now.  I
don't remember if he actually got his CLEC, or why that matters, but
there's fiber there now.

On Fri, Feb 11, 2022 at 4:05 PM Brandon Svec via NANOG 
wrote:

> What is the point of these anecdotes? Surely anyone on this list with even
> a passing knowledge of the broadband landscape in the United States knows
> how hit or miss it can be.  An apartment building could have cheap 1G fiber
> and the houses across the street have no option but slow DSL.  Houses could
> have reliable high speed cable internet, but the office park across the
> field has no such choice because the buildout cost is prohibitively high to
> get fiber, etc.
>
> There are plenty of places with only one or two choices of provider too.
> Of course, this is literally changing by the minute as new services are
> continually being added and upgraded.
> *Brandon Svec*
>
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 11, 2022 at 12:36 PM Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
>
>> OK the one example you provided has gigabit fiber though.
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 11, 2022 at 8:41 AM Tom Beecher  wrote:
>>
>>> Can you provide examples?
>>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Twe6uTwOyJo_channel=NANOG
>>>
>>> Our good friend Jared could only get 1.5M DSL living just outside Ann
>>> Arbor, MI, so he had to start his own CLEC.
>>>
>>> I have friends in significantly more rural areas than he lives in (
>>> Niagara and Orleans county NYS , between Niagara Falls and Rochester ) who
>>> have the same 400Mb package from Spectrum that I do, living in the City of
>>> Niagara Falls.
>>>
>>> This is not to say that rural America is a mecca of connectivity; there
>>> is a long way to go all the way around regardless. But it is a direct
>>> example as you asked for.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Feb 10, 2022 at 3:57 PM Josh Luthman <
>>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> >There are plenty of urban and suburban areas in America that are far
>>>> worse off from a broadband perspective than “rural America”.
>>>>
>>>> Can you provide examples?
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Feb 10, 2022 at 3:51 PM Owen DeLong via NANOG 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> > On Jun 2, 2021, at 02:10 , Mark Tinka  wrote:
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > On 6/2/21 11:04, Owen DeLong wrote:
>>>>> >
>>>>> >> I disagree… If it could be forced into a standardized format using
>>>>> a standardized approach to data acquisition and reliable comparable 
>>>>> results
>>>>> across providers, it could be a very useful adjunct to real competition.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > If we can't even agree on what "minimum speed for U.S. broadband
>>>>> connections" actually means, fat chance having a "nutritional facts" at 
>>>>> the
>>>>> back of the "Internet in a tea cup" dropped off at your door step.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > I'm not saying it's not useful, I'm just saying that easily goes
>>>>> down the "what color should we use for the bike shed" territory, while
>>>>> people in rural America still have no or poor Internet access.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Mark.
>>>>>
>>>>> ROFLMAO…
>>>>>
>>>>> People in Rural America seem to be doing just fine. Most of the ones I
>>>>> know at least have GPON or better.
>>>>>
>>>>> Meanwhile, here in San Jose, a city that bills itself as “The Capital
>>>>> of Silicon Valley”, the best I can get is Comcast (which does finally
>>>>> purport to be Gig down), but rarely delivers that.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, anything involving the federal government will get the full bike
>>>>> shed treatment no matter what we do.
>>>>>
>>>>> There are plenty of urban and suburban areas in America that are far
>>>>> worse off from a broadband perspective than “rural America”.
>>>>>
>>>>> Owen
>>>>>
>>>>>

Re: New minimum speed for US broadband connections

[Josh Luthman]

OK the one example you provided has gigabit fiber though.

On Fri, Feb 11, 2022 at 8:41 AM Tom Beecher  wrote:

> Can you provide examples?
>>
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Twe6uTwOyJo_channel=NANOG
>
> Our good friend Jared could only get 1.5M DSL living just outside Ann
> Arbor, MI, so he had to start his own CLEC.
>
> I have friends in significantly more rural areas than he lives in (
> Niagara and Orleans county NYS , between Niagara Falls and Rochester ) who
> have the same 400Mb package from Spectrum that I do, living in the City of
> Niagara Falls.
>
> This is not to say that rural America is a mecca of connectivity; there is
> a long way to go all the way around regardless. But it is a direct example
> as you asked for.
>
> On Thu, Feb 10, 2022 at 3:57 PM Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
>
>> >There are plenty of urban and suburban areas in America that are far
>> worse off from a broadband perspective than “rural America”.
>>
>> Can you provide examples?
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 10, 2022 at 3:51 PM Owen DeLong via NANOG 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> > On Jun 2, 2021, at 02:10 , Mark Tinka  wrote:
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On 6/2/21 11:04, Owen DeLong wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> I disagree… If it could be forced into a standardized format using a
>>> standardized approach to data acquisition and reliable comparable results
>>> across providers, it could be a very useful adjunct to real competition.
>>> >
>>> > If we can't even agree on what "minimum speed for U.S. broadband
>>> connections" actually means, fat chance having a "nutritional facts" at the
>>> back of the "Internet in a tea cup" dropped off at your door step.
>>> >
>>> > I'm not saying it's not useful, I'm just saying that easily goes down
>>> the "what color should we use for the bike shed" territory, while people in
>>> rural America still have no or poor Internet access.
>>> >
>>> > Mark.
>>>
>>> ROFLMAO…
>>>
>>> People in Rural America seem to be doing just fine. Most of the ones I
>>> know at least have GPON or better.
>>>
>>> Meanwhile, here in San Jose, a city that bills itself as “The Capital of
>>> Silicon Valley”, the best I can get is Comcast (which does finally purport
>>> to be Gig down), but rarely delivers that.
>>>
>>> Yes, anything involving the federal government will get the full bike
>>> shed treatment no matter what we do.
>>>
>>> There are plenty of urban and suburban areas in America that are far
>>> worse off from a broadband perspective than “rural America”.
>>>
>>> Owen
>>>
>>>

Re: New minimum speed for US broadband connections

[Josh Luthman]

>There are plenty of urban and suburban areas in America that are far worse
off from a broadband perspective than “rural America”.

Can you provide examples?

On Thu, Feb 10, 2022 at 3:51 PM Owen DeLong via NANOG 
wrote:

>
>
> > On Jun 2, 2021, at 02:10 , Mark Tinka  wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > On 6/2/21 11:04, Owen DeLong wrote:
> >
> >> I disagree… If it could be forced into a standardized format using a
> standardized approach to data acquisition and reliable comparable results
> across providers, it could be a very useful adjunct to real competition.
> >
> > If we can't even agree on what "minimum speed for U.S. broadband
> connections" actually means, fat chance having a "nutritional facts" at the
> back of the "Internet in a tea cup" dropped off at your door step.
> >
> > I'm not saying it's not useful, I'm just saying that easily goes down
> the "what color should we use for the bike shed" territory, while people in
> rural America still have no or poor Internet access.
> >
> > Mark.
>
> ROFLMAO…
>
> People in Rural America seem to be doing just fine. Most of the ones I
> know at least have GPON or better.
>
> Meanwhile, here in San Jose, a city that bills itself as “The Capital of
> Silicon Valley”, the best I can get is Comcast (which does finally purport
> to be Gig down), but rarely delivers that.
>
> Yes, anything involving the federal government will get the full bike shed
> treatment no matter what we do.
>
> There are plenty of urban and suburban areas in America that are far worse
> off from a broadband perspective than “rural America”.
>
> Owen
>
>

Re: Authoritative Resources for Public DNS Pinging

[Josh Luthman]

4.2.2.2 is definitely anycast, I've used that one since I think before
Google was founded...

On Wed, Feb 9, 2022 at 5:01 PM Mike Lewinski via NANOG 
wrote:

> > What else is like that and easy to remember and isn’t 1.1.1.1 ?
>
> 4.2.2.1, which IIRC predates both 8.8.8.8 and 1.1.1.1.
>
> Muscle memory still favors it. I think 4.2.2.2 might be anycast the same
> but never really looked hard at it.
>

Re: What do you think about the "cloudification" of mobile?

[Josh Luthman]

Mark,

Use the 12 foot ladder to get over the 10 foot paywall:

https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.economist.com%2Fbusiness%2Fwill-the-cloud-business-eat-the-5g-telecoms-industry%2F21806999

On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 4:12 AM Mark Tinka  wrote:

>
>
> On 1/19/22 21:52, Michael Thomas wrote:
>
> >
> > There was an article in the Economist (sorry if it's paywalled) about
> > Dish entering the mobile market using an AWS backend. I don't think
> > that AWS brings much more than compute for the most part so I don't
> > really get why this would be a huge win. A win maybe, but a huge win?
> > I can certainly see that not having tons of legacy and accreted
> > inertia is big win, but that's true of any disruptor. In the end they
> > still need base stations, spectrum, backhaul and all of that to run
> > their network, right?
> >
> > Am I missing something, or is this mainly hype?
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> https://www.economist.com/business/will-the-cloud-business-eat-the-5g-telecoms-industry/21806999
> >
>
> It's behind a pay wall, so can't read the entire article.
>
> But AFAICT, the way AWS's 5G service works is that they can provide an
> entire solution (towers, backhaul, back-end, even SIM cards), or just
> the back-end.
>
> I believe the latter is called Wavelength:
>
>  https://aws.amazon.com/wavelength/features/
>
> I'd say it is a legitimate threat to traditional MNO's. One does not
> require to build a national-scale mobile network from scratch... if you
> can service a small community of some 500 people in a manner that is
> affordable to them, and gives you a nice return so you can buy some food
> at the end of each month, no reason why that is not a successful and
> sustainable model.
>
> Heck, you probably don't even need to offer classic voice and SMS
> services. There are plenty of IP-based apps that will do this for you,
> and I know many people who have totally given up packages that include
> voice minutes and SMS messages, in favour of data-only services from
> their MNO. They are thriving.
>
> So if a small mobile operator using AWS 5G as a back-end does not need
> to negotiate massive interconnect contracts and deals with other telco's
> in the area, and their handful of customers are fine with just Internet
> access as the only service, makes a lot of sense to me.
>
> As I've been saying for a long time now, the telco model is a dying one.
> Customers only care about the problems we can help them solve, not
> whether we are a Tier-1, or how many TV shows were "Brought to you by..."
>
> Mark.
>
>

Re: ONTs

[Josh Luthman]

I would have to imagine any QOS/traffic shaping is done in the OMCI and
hence would probably be in the GPON spec, g.984.  I would look there.

Just guessing it would hold true with XG/s/PON, NGPON, etc.

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Wed, Jan 12, 2022 at 3:33 PM Dave Taht  wrote:

> On Wed, Jan 12, 2022 at 12:27 PM Josh Luthman
>  wrote:
> >
> > That's usually an OMCI control thing on the OLT (traffic shaping, qos).
> Do you have a specific question in mind?
>
> My dream, of course, is fq_codel (nowadays, sch_cake) on every
> potential bottleneck link. FQ for essentially zero latency for sparse
> packets, AQM for achieving
> far shorter queue lengths.
>
> I'd settle for an ONT that applied ethernet pause frames sanely so a
> smarter router upstream did the right things. There's a ton of smarter
> routers nowadays. Any ONT's
> that use pause frames and have very small onboard buffers?
>
> Been working on getting mikrotik up to speed on this incredibly long
> thread over here; https://forum.mikrotik.com/viewtopic.php?t=179307
>
> > Josh Luthman
> > 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
> > Direct: 937-552-2343
> > 1100 Wayne St
> > Suite 1337
> > Troy, OH 45373
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Jan 12, 2022 at 3:04 PM Dave Taht  wrote:
> >>
> >> Does anyone have any insight as to the OS and overall capabilities of
> >> various ONT's? Traffic shaping/QoS and statistics?
> >>
> >> On Wed, Jan 12, 2022 at 12:01 PM Shawn L via NANOG 
> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Yes.  In our scenario the ONT is basically an ethernet bridge and
> provides a SIP end-point for calls.  There are models that have the router
> built-into them as well, but we've chosen not to use them at this point.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > The battery we install is designed to run the voice portion for ~ 8
> hours (customers are offered a longer run-time battery for an additional
> fee).  There's some sensor wires from the ONT to the UPS so that we know
> when power is out, the battery is low or needs to be replaced, etc.  It
> also tells the ONT to turn off ethernet services when the power is out to
> preserve battery for the phone portion.  Though that behavior can be
> changed in software.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > -Original Message-
> >> > From: "Michael Thomas" 
> >> > Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2022 2:48pm
> >> > To: nanog@nanog.org
> >> > Subject: Re: home router battery backup
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On 1/12/22 10:54 AM, Shawn L via NANOG wrote:
> >> >
> >> > In $dayjob I work for a telco that deploys fiber to the home.  If we
> are providing voice services over fiber a battery backup is installed (we
> maintain) that powers the customer's phone in the event of a power outage.
> It does not power their router, etc.  99% of the customers do not install a
> UPS for their router, etc.  We try to explain that to customers, but we
> still get calls that they can't get on the Internet when their power is out.
> >> >
> >> > So your voice is part of the modem which isn't a router? I assume it
> uses IP for voice.
> >> >
> >> > Mike
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> I tried to build a better future, a few times:
> >> https://wayforward.archive.org/?site=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.icei.org
> >>
> >> Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC
>
>
>
> --
> I tried to build a better future, a few times:
> https://wayforward.archive.org/?site=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.icei.org
>
> Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC
>

Re: ONTs

[Josh Luthman]

That's usually an OMCI control thing on the OLT (traffic shaping, qos).  Do
you have a specific question in mind?

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Wed, Jan 12, 2022 at 3:04 PM Dave Taht  wrote:

> Does anyone have any insight as to the OS and overall capabilities of
> various ONT's? Traffic shaping/QoS and statistics?
>
> On Wed, Jan 12, 2022 at 12:01 PM Shawn L via NANOG 
> wrote:
> >
> > Yes.  In our scenario the ONT is basically an ethernet bridge and
> provides a SIP end-point for calls.  There are models that have the router
> built-into them as well, but we've chosen not to use them at this point.
> >
> >
> >
> > The battery we install is designed to run the voice portion for ~ 8
> hours (customers are offered a longer run-time battery for an additional
> fee).  There's some sensor wires from the ONT to the UPS so that we know
> when power is out, the battery is low or needs to be replaced, etc.  It
> also tells the ONT to turn off ethernet services when the power is out to
> preserve battery for the phone portion.  Though that behavior can be
> changed in software.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: "Michael Thomas" 
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2022 2:48pm
> > To: nanog@nanog.org
> > Subject: Re: home router battery backup
> >
> >
> >
> > On 1/12/22 10:54 AM, Shawn L via NANOG wrote:
> >
> > In $dayjob I work for a telco that deploys fiber to the home.  If we are
> providing voice services over fiber a battery backup is installed (we
> maintain) that powers the customer's phone in the event of a power outage.
> It does not power their router, etc.  99% of the customers do not install a
> UPS for their router, etc.  We try to explain that to customers, but we
> still get calls that they can't get on the Internet when their power is out.
> >
> > So your voice is part of the modem which isn't a router? I assume it
> uses IP for voice.
> >
> > Mike
>
>
>
> --
> I tried to build a better future, a few times:
> https://wayforward.archive.org/?site=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.icei.org
>
> Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC
>

Re: Can it really be this quiet?

[Josh Luthman]

Likely a parallel between vacation, ie people not touching things, and
things staying working.

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, Jan 3, 2022 at 2:56 PM Job Snijders via NANOG 
wrote:

> Hi Allen,
>
> Yes, it can be this quiet. It’s good news, it means the thing is mostly
> working :-)
>
> I wish everyone a happy and calm 2022!
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Job
>
> On Mon, 3 Jan 2022 at 20:47, Allen McKinley Kitchen (gmail) <
> allenmckinleykitc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Or has NANOG also succumbed to a signed-integer date problem?
>>
>> Waiting to see what I get back..
>>
>> ..Allen
>>
>

Re: private 5G networks?

[Josh Luthman]

Wifi handoff is 802.11r.

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Tue, Nov 30, 2021 at 2:47 PM Michael Thomas  wrote:

>
> On 11/30/21 11:38 AM, Shane Ronan wrote:
>
> The spectrum is CBRS and there are MANY benefits to 5G over Wifi,
> including but not limited to guaranteed spectrum.
>
> For the 3rd tier I assume that works pretty much like wifi spectrum,
> right? It seems to be at about 3.5Ghz so that would be pretty short
> distance. Other than handoff what other advantages does it have over wifi
> (can wifi do seamless l2 handoff these days?)
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 30, 2021 at 2:29 PM Michael Thomas  wrote:
>
>> https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2021/11/preview-aws-private-5g/
>>
>> Why would somebody want this over wifi? And what spectrum are they
>> using? They can't just camp on allocated spectrum, right?
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>

Re: private 5G networks?

[Josh Luthman]

There is no guaranteed spectrum in CBRS without a PAL.  That auction has
come and gone, but the license holders may rent out channels in time (this
is expected to happen).

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Tue, Nov 30, 2021 at 2:38 PM Shane Ronan  wrote:

> The spectrum is CBRS and there are MANY benefits to 5G over Wifi,
> including but not limited to guaranteed spectrum.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 30, 2021 at 2:29 PM Michael Thomas  wrote:
>
>> https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2021/11/preview-aws-private-5g/
>>
>> Why would somebody want this over wifi? And what spectrum are they
>> using? They can't just camp on allocated spectrum, right?
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

[Josh Luthman]

Imagine it's 2008 and your AP is pushing out 3 mbps. Customers are all
happy.  Suddenly, Netflix demands 10x what you're offering.  Customers are
not happy.

Customers don't understand.  People don't understand.  There are a million
cogs in the machine and if the path of least resistance is to turn left, an
ISP is going to turn left.

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Fri, Oct 1, 2021 at 10:19 AM Blake Hudson  wrote:

>
>
> On 10/1/2021 8:48 AM, Sean Donelan wrote:
> > South Korean Internet service provider SK Broadband has sued Netflix
> > to pay for costs from increased network traffic and maintenance work
> > because of a surge of viewers to the U.S. firm's content, an SK
> > spokesperson said on Friday.
> > [...]
> > Last year, Netflix had brought its own lawsuit on whether it had any
> > obligation to pay SK for network usage, arguing Netflix's duty ends
> > with creating content and leaving it accessible. It said SK's expenses
> > were incurred while fulfilling its contractual obligations to Internet
> > users, and delivery in the Internet world is "free of charge as a
> > principle", according to court documents.
> > [...]
> >
> >
> https://www.reuters.com/business/media-telecom/skorea-broadband-firm-sues-netflix-after-traffic-surge-squid-game-2021-10-01/
> >
> >
>
> I'll never understand over how ISPs see content providers as the enemy
> (or a rival). The content is why ISPs have customers. Don't get upset
> when your customer uses the service that you sold them (in a way that is
> precisely in accordance with the expected usage)!
>
> Netflix, as an example, has even been willing to bear most of the cost
> with peering or bringing servers to ISPs to reduce the ISP's costs and
> improve the ISP customer's experience. It's about time Netflix played
> chicken with one of these ISPs and stopped offering service  (or offered
> limited service) to the ISPs that try to extort them and other content
> providers: Sorry, your service provider does not believe in net
> neutrality and has imposed limitations on your Netflix experience. For a
> better Netflix experience, consider exploring one of these other nearby
> internet providers: x, y, z.
>

Re: Reminder: Never connect a generator to home wiring without transfer switch

[Josh Luthman]

Is this conversation really taking place on NANOG?

Don't backfeed power.  Got it.  Stupid people are going to be stupid, we
won't solve it here.

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Tue, Aug 31, 2021 at 10:41 AM Mel Beckman  wrote:

> Mark,
>
> But you said “Gas-fired furnaces or heaters should not have an impact
> because the only electrical requirement is to fire up the pilot light.”
> There is no gas-fired furnace I know of that doesn’t require a blower fan.
> How else does the heat get out of the furnace?
>
> To answer your question, you need to understand that this safety system
> has two components. The first component, the furnace interlock relay, is
> designed to interlock the blower with the forced-air system, which also
> includes an outside air supply valve. When the blower is energized, a
> circuit inside the furnace gets power. The blower and furnace operate
> continuously when this circuit is energized, and the supply valve opens and
> closes as needed to ensure the air doesn’t get stale.
>
> The safety second component is the limit switch, which primarily turns the
> blower fan on and off, but also has a safety role. When the temperature in
> the air supply plenum gets too hot, the limit switch turns off the furnace
> burner (or boiler, in a water-based system) to prevent damage, and possibly
> a fire, from overheating.
>
> The actual state mechanics are thus not as simple as “if the blower fails
> the furnace won’t light”. And it’s because of these complex state mechanics
> that furnace electricity is hard wired.
>
> Without AC power, no furnace can operate in a power outage. So that’s
> certainly not “no impact” from a utility failure. But the many thousands of
> deaths that occurred in homes and offices before these safety systems were
> put into the code is why you need a generator transfer switch if you want
> heat (or A/C) in your home during an outage.
>
>  -mel
>
> > On Aug 31, 2021, at 7:15 AM, Mark Tinka  wrote:
> >
> > 
> >
> >> On 8/31/21 16:06, Mel Beckman wrote:
> >>
> >> I think you’re forgetting about the all-important blower fan in a
> gas-fired furnace.
> >
> > Well, I was referring to a pure electric furnace, not one that uses a
> blower over a gas-fired one :-).
> >
> > In that case, the blower is not a major draw on power.
> >
> > But again, we don't have those things here, so :-).
> >
> >
> >> That said, the reason the code requires furnaces to be hardwired is to
> ensure that the blower interlock system can’t be bypassed. An electrical
> interlock ties a heat recover ventilator to circulation air blower
> operation of a forced-air furnace system. This ensure that the blower
> circulates supply and return air within the structure. A plug-in power
> source leads to the possibility that this interlock could be accidentally
> defeated, resulting in an overheat within the flame box.
> >
> > Makes sense.
> >
> > Does this, then, mean that if the blower itself were to fail, the gas
> burner would not light?
> >
> > Mark.
>

Re: Amazon Contact?

[Josh Luthman]

Amazon's vendor responsible for this got a ticket from Amazon this morning
(and I sent them a generic contact us form message on Monday).  They
emailed me a few minutes ago and said they white listed the one /32 I had
complaints for.

I detailed our subnet, but I suspect since we only had the one /32 with
complaints they won't be doing any whitelisting on the entire subnet.

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Wed, Aug 25, 2021 at 6:41 PM L Sean Kennedy  wrote:

> Any other ISPs that are having this issue with Amazon Prime Video, please
> contact me for real time help off-list.  It does appear that several of the
> reports also involve other streaming platforms, but at least for Amazon I
> can get a ticket open to investigate.
>
> There are probably some updates needed to the brotherswisp.com document
> and I will reach out to Mike H separately about that, but those updates may
> not happen in real time.
>
> Thanks,
>  Sean
>
> Em qua., 25 de ago. de 2021 às 16:41, Stephen Fulton 
> escreveu:
>
>> I'll try and beat Mike to this:
>>
>>http://thebrotherswisp.com/index.php/geo-and-vpn/
>>
>> The above has contact info for a number of orgs to resolve geolocation &
>> VPN problems, including Amazon.  Work in progress.
>>
>> -- Stephen
>>
>> On 2021-08-25 15:55, Chris Cappuccio wrote:
>> > Looking to see if I can get someone at Amazon to help. Amazon Video is
>> starting to think our CGN exit range is a VPN service (It isn't)
>> >
>> > Chris
>> >
>>
>

Re: Amazon Prime Video IP reputation

[Josh Luthman]

Thanks for the update.  I'm getting more and more complaints every day.

Amazon chat support asked my customer to install a VPN.  That enabled the
customer to watch videos.  What an irony...

On Tue, Aug 24, 2021, 7:21 PM Eric C. Miller  wrote:

> So far, the only provider that’s given us a positive confirmation has been
> GeoComply/GeoGuard. Still working on getting resolution. We’ve been able to
> move some CGNAT gateways to different IPs, but it only buys 3-4 days before
> they get flagged again.
>
>
>
> Eric
>
>
>
> *From:* Nathan Gerencser 
> *Sent:* Monday, August 23, 2021 11:19 AM
> *To:* Josh Luthman ; Eric C. Miller <
> e...@ericheather.com>
> *Cc:* nanog@nanog.org
> *Subject:* RE: Amazon Prime Video IP reputation
>
>
>
> Geoguard takes care of Amazon and are usually responsive.
>
>
>
> n...@geoguard.com
>
>
>
> *Nathan Gerencser,* *Network Engineer*
> MetaLINK Technologies
>

Re: Amazon Prime Video IP reputation

[Josh Luthman]

I've had a couple calls over the weekend from customers that got blocked.
Was there any resolution to this or place to contact them?  TBW page is
only a link to the forums.

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Wed, Aug 18, 2021 at 3:51 PM Eric C. Miller  wrote:

> We found that ipqualityscore.com seems to match up with the CGNATs that
> we are having the most trouble with. They indicated a 1-3 day turnaround in
> responding to mis-classifications. We might have to make a habit of calling
> them every 30 minutes until they do something.
>
>
>
> *From:* NANOG  *On Behalf
> Of *Joshua Stump
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 18, 2021 1:40 PM
> *To:* nanog@nanog.org
> *Subject:* RE: Amazon Prime Video IP reputation
>
>
>
> I’m having the same with one of my valid IPv4 /21 right now. Amazon Prime,
> HBO Max, and Hulu confirmed. Just started within the last couple days.
>
>
>
> Joshua Stump
>
> Network Admin
>
> Fourway.NET <https://fourway.net/>
>
> 800-733-0062
>
>
>
> *From:* NANOG  *On Behalf Of *Eric
> C. Miller
> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 17, 2021 7:31 PM
> *To:* NANOG 
> *Subject:* Amazon Prime Video IP reputation
>
>
>
> Does anybody know which IP reputation service Amazon uses for Prime video?
> Within the last couple of hours several of our CGNAT publics are showing up
> as VPN or proxy when someone tries to watch Amazon video.
>
>
>
> Any help would be appreciated!
>
>
>
> Thank you!
>
> Eric
>