Re: Hotels/Airports with IPv6

2015-07-13 Thread Lee Howard
On 7/9/15, 11:04 AM, NANOG on behalf of Mel Beckman nanog-boun...@nanog.org on behalf of m...@beckman.org wrote: I working on a large airport WiFi deployment right now. IPv6 is allowed for in the future but not configured in the short term. With less than 10,000 ephemeral users, we don't expect

Re: Hotels/Airports with IPv6

2015-07-13 Thread Jared Mauch
On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 at 10:05:32AM -0400, Lee Howard wrote: On 7/9/15, 11:04 AM, NANOG on behalf of Mel Beckman nanog-boun...@nanog.org on behalf of m...@beckman.org wrote: I working on a large airport WiFi deployment right now. IPv6 is allowed for in the future but not configured in the

Re: Hotels/Airports with IPv6

2015-07-13 Thread mikea
On Sat, Jul 11, 2015 at 05:34:03AM +, Mel Beckman wrote: Owen, I never said it was a greenfield deployment. Someone else tagged it with that term. My understanding of the term greenfield WRT wifi is that there are no interfering signals to contend with. I don't know of any U.S. airport

Re: Hotels/Airports with IPv6

2015-07-13 Thread Antonio Querubin
On Mon, 13 Jul 2015, Mel Beckman wrote: Of course. The question is, is a highly visible public wifi network the place to hammer out problems? My customer decided no. Public Wifi nets almost always have administratively built-in limitations which may not be apparent at first to the end-users.

Re: Hotels/Airports with IPv6

2015-07-13 Thread A . L . M . Buxey
Hi, I've done fairly extensive testing, and IPv6 support, while pretty solid on the carrier side, is still iffy on WiFi. Both iOS and Android have various reliability problems with IPv6 and WiFi, mostly related to acquiring a DNS address or maintaining a connection while roaming. Combine

Re: Hotels/Airports with IPv6

2015-07-13 Thread Mel Beckman
Of course. The question is, is a highly visible public wifi network the place to hammer out problems? My customer decided no. -mel beckman On Jul 13, 2015, at 8:54 AM, a.l.m.bu...@lboro.ac.uk a.l.m.bu...@lboro.ac.uk wrote: Hi, I've done fairly extensive testing, and IPv6 support, while

Re: Hotels/Airports with IPv6

2015-07-13 Thread Mel Beckman
I've done fairly extensive testing, and IPv6 support, while pretty solid on the carrier side, is still iffy on WiFi. Both iOS and Android have various reliability problems with IPv6 and WiFi, mostly related to acquiring a DNS address or maintaining a connection while roaming. Combine that with

Re: Hotels/Airports with IPv6

2015-07-13 Thread Mel Beckman
Right. FCC. Sorry -mel beckman On Jul 13, 2015, at 10:53 AM, mikea mi...@mikea.ath.cx wrote: On Sat, Jul 11, 2015 at 05:34:03AM +, Mel Beckman wrote: Owen, I never said it was a greenfield deployment. Someone else tagged it with that term. My understanding of the term greenfield

Re: Hotels/Airports with IPv6

2015-07-11 Thread Mel Beckman
Owen, Lol. No, I'm a Mac guy. We think different :) I suppose when an airport is first built, that would be greenfield. But this airport already has a legacy wifi system that we are replacing, incrementally. I agree that a case exists for building in IPv6 from the start, but this deployment

Re: Hotels/Airports with IPv6

2015-07-10 Thread Alan Buxey
2 mbit is still more than 32 bit ;) alan

Re: Hotels/Airports with IPv6

2015-07-10 Thread Oliver O'Boyle
32 bit connection with a 32 bit address will open up an three-dimensional portal under the hotel. They all know this and work around it by selecting a lower connection speed. On July 10, 2015, at 3:59 AM, Alan Buxey a.l.m.bu...@lboro.ac.uk wrote: 2 mbit is still more than 32 bit ;) alan

Re: Hotels/Airports with IPv6

2015-07-10 Thread Mel Beckman
Jared, http://static3.businessinsider.com/image/525db76369bedd1029d61f47-1200/august-2009.jpg Perfect! -mel via cell On Jul 10, 2015, at 5:02 PM, Jared Mauch ja...@puck.nether.netmailto:ja...@puck.nether.net wrote: On Fri, Jul 10, 2015 at 11:48:46PM +, Mel Beckman wrote: You perhaps

Re: Hotels/Airports with IPv6

2015-07-10 Thread Mel Beckman
You perhaps haven't worked a large government network deployment before. One doesn't activate features not enumerated in the design. Ever. Because they won't get and can thus introduce security or reliability covered in acceptance testing and could introduce security or reliability problems.

Re: Hotels/Airports with IPv6

2015-07-10 Thread Jared Mauch
On Fri, Jul 10, 2015 at 11:48:46PM +, Mel Beckman wrote: You perhaps haven't worked a large government network deployment before. One doesn't activate features not enumerated in the design. Ever. Because they won't get and can thus introduce security or reliability covered in acceptance

Re: Hotels/Airports with IPv6

2015-07-10 Thread Mel Beckman
Mark, Few acceptance test regimes cover established feature testing. It's just too expensive. For example, an acceptance test of a firewall installation does not include validating the DPI implementation. Government and enterprise buyers rely on certifications, such as ICSA for firewalls,

Re: Hotels/Airports with IPv6

2015-07-10 Thread Owen DeLong
How can it be a large, complex deployment if it’s greenfield. In that case, you need to acceptance test the IPv4 just as much as IPv6. The difference is that you don’t have to rerun your acceptance tests 6-months later when you have to implement IPv6 in a rush because you suddenly learned that

Re: Hotels/Airports with IPv6

2015-07-10 Thread Owen DeLong
On Jul 10, 2015, at 22:34 , Mel Beckman m...@beckman.org wrote: Owen, I never said it was a greenfield deployment. Someone else tagged it with that term. My understanding of the term greenfield WRT wifi is that there are no interfering signals to contend with. I don't know of any

Re: Hotels/Airports with IPv6

2015-07-10 Thread Julien Goodwin
On 11/07/15 08:25, Shane Ronan wrote: 1.1.1.1 is usually a good bet Sadly yes, even though it's valid public IP space Cisco still have it documented as their suggested captive portal address. Despite it (and 1.2.3.0/24) being advertised by $ORK for years at this point on behalf of APNIC.

Re: Hotels/Airports with IPv6

2015-07-10 Thread Owen DeLong
Yes, but TBH, they are advertised as a darkspace collection project, so Cisco’s use is actually somewhat helpful to that activity. It’s unlikely that 1.1.1.0/24 or 1.2.3.0/24 will ever be allocated by APNIC. Owen On Jul 10, 2015, at 22:47 , Julien Goodwin na...@studio442.com.au wrote: On

Re: Hotels/Airports with IPv6

2015-07-10 Thread Mel Beckman
Owen, I never said it was a greenfield deployment. Someone else tagged it with that term. My understanding of the term greenfield WRT wifi is that there are no interfering signals to contend with. I don't know of any U.S. airport that meets that definition. First you have all the wifi of

Re: Hotels/Airports with IPv6

2015-07-10 Thread Christopher Morrow
On Thu, Jul 9, 2015 at 11:04 AM, Mel Beckman m...@beckman.org wrote: I working on a large airport WiFi deployment right now. IPv6 is allowed for in the future but not configured in the short term. With less than 10,000 ephemeral users, we don't expect users to demand IPv6 until most mobile

Re: Hotels/Airports with IPv6

2015-07-10 Thread Mark Andrews
In message cal9jlaba5no6yq99crhdgrthtsb0vgp3gdneu-vu2-4r_1_...@mail.gmail.com , Christopher Morrow writes: On Thu, Jul 9, 2015 at 11:04 AM, Mel Beckman m...@beckman.org wrote: I working on a large airport WiFi deployment right now. IPv6 is allowed = for in the future but not configured in the

Re: Hotels/Airports with IPv6

2015-07-10 Thread Mel Beckman
Limited municipal budgets is all I can say. IPv6 has a cost, and if they can put it off till later then that's often good politics. -mel via cell On Jul 10, 2015, at 2:42 PM, Mark Andrews ma...@isc.org wrote: In message cal9jlaba5no6yq99crhdgrthtsb0vgp3gdneu-vu2-4r_1_...@mail.gmail.com

Re: Hotels/Airports with IPv6

2015-07-10 Thread Jared Mauch
On Sat, Jul 11, 2015 at 07:41:53AM +1000, Mark Andrews wrote: +1 and you will most probably see about 50% of the traffic being IPv6 if you do so. There is lots of IPv6 capable equipment out there just waiting to see a RA. What I noticed when I ran a transparent HTTP proxy at my

Re: Hotels/Airports with IPv6

2015-07-10 Thread Mark Andrews
In message a24f7cf2-0cd8-4eba-a211-07bc36988...@beckman.org, Mel Beckman writ es: Limited municipal budgets is all I can say. IPv6 has a cost, and if they can put it off till later then that's often good politics. -mel via cell IPv4 has a cost as well. May as well just go IPv6-only from day

Re: Hotels/Airports with IPv6

2015-07-10 Thread Mel Beckman
There is most certainly a cost to IPv6, especially in a large, complex deployment, where everything requires acceptance testing. And I'm sure you realize that IPv6 only is not an option. I agree that it would have been worth the cost, which would have been just a small fraction of the total.

Re: Hotels/Airports with IPv6

2015-07-10 Thread Mark Andrews
In message 20150710215658.gc23...@puck.nether.net, Jared Mauch writes: On Sat, Jul 11, 2015 at 07:41:53AM +1000, Mark Andrews wrote: +1 and you will most probably see about 50% of the traffic being IPv6 if you do so. There is lots of IPv6 capable equipment out there just waiting to see a

Re: Hotels/Airports with IPv6

2015-07-10 Thread Scott Weeks
Limited municipal budgets is all I can say. IPv6 has a cost, and if they can put it off till later then that's often good politics. IPv4 has a cost as well. May as well just go IPv6-only from day one and not pay the IPv4 tax at all. The cost difference between providing IPv6 + IPv4 or

Re: Hotels/Airports with IPv6

2015-07-10 Thread Shane Ronan
1.1.1.1 is usually a good bet On Jul 10, 2015 6:21 PM, Mark Andrews ma...@isc.org wrote: In message 20150710215658.gc23...@puck.nether.net, Jared Mauch writes: On Sat, Jul 11, 2015 at 07:41:53AM +1000, Mark Andrews wrote: +1 and you will most probably see about 50% of the traffic being

Re: Hotels/Airports with IPv6

2015-07-10 Thread Mark Andrews
In message da95983c-71f1-4aa6-b431-2f2ffd515...@beckman.org, Mel Beckman writ es: There is most certainly a cost to IPv6, especially in a large, complex deployment, where everything requires acceptance testing. And I'm sure you realize that IPv6 only is not an option. I agree that it would

Re: Hotels/Airports with IPv6

2015-07-10 Thread Jared Mauch
On Fri, Jul 10, 2015 at 10:08:15PM +, Mel Beckman wrote: There is most certainly a cost to IPv6, especially in a large, complex deployment, where everything requires acceptance testing. And I'm sure you realize that IPv6 only is not an option. I agree that it would have been worth the

Re: Hotels/Airports with IPv6

2015-07-09 Thread Oliver O'Boyle
We manage 65+ hotels in Canada and the topic of IPv6 for guest internet connectivity has never been brought up, except by me. It's not a discussion our vendors or the hotel brands have opened either. On Thu, Jul 9, 2015 at 11:04 AM, Mel Beckman m...@beckman.org wrote: I working on a large

Re: Hotels/Airports with IPv6

2015-07-09 Thread Bruce Curtis
On Jul 9, 2015, at 9:53 AM, Jared Mauch ja...@puck.nether.net wrote: It’s my understanding that many captive portals have trouble with IPv6 traffic and this is a blocker for places. I’m wondering what people who deploy captive portals are doing with these things?

RE: Hotels/Airports with IPv6

2015-07-09 Thread Dennis Burgess
To: Mel Beckman Cc: North American Network Operators' Group Subject: Re: Hotels/Airports with IPv6 We manage 65+ hotels in Canada and the topic of IPv6 for guest internet connectivity has never been brought up, except by me. It's not a discussion our vendors or the hotel brands have opened either

Re: Hotels/Airports with IPv6

2015-07-09 Thread Mel Beckman
I working on a large airport WiFi deployment right now. IPv6 is allowed for in the future but not configured in the short term. With less than 10,000 ephemeral users, we don't expect users to demand IPv6 until most mobile devices and apps come ready to use IPv6 by default. -mel beckman On

Re: Hotels/Airports with IPv6

2015-07-09 Thread Ca By
On Thursday, July 9, 2015, Mel Beckman m...@beckman.org wrote: I working on a large airport WiFi deployment right now. IPv6 is allowed for in the future but not configured in the short term. With less than 10,000 ephemeral users, we don't expect users to demand IPv6 until most mobile devices

Re: Hotels/Airports with IPv6

2015-07-09 Thread Oliver O'Boyle
Message- From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-boun...@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Oliver O'Boyle Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2015 10:20 AM To: Mel Beckman Cc: North American Network Operators' Group Subject: Re: Hotels/Airports with IPv6 We manage 65+ hotels in Canada and the topic of IPv6 for guest

Hotels/Airports with IPv6

2015-07-09 Thread Jared Mauch
It’s my understanding that many captive portals have trouble with IPv6 traffic and this is a blocker for places. I’m wondering what people who deploy captive portals are doing with these things? https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wkumari-dhc-capport seems to be trying to document the method to

Re: Hotels/Airports with IPv6

2015-07-09 Thread Oliver O'Boyle
Absolutely agree. It's not their job to even know to ask for a specific protocol version in the first place. Their experience should be as seamless and consistent as possible at all times. What we should be be concerned about is that the hospitality industry is so far behind the game on

RE: Hotels/Airports with IPv6

2015-07-09 Thread Jacques Latour
Just turn IPv6 on when you can. We manage 65+ hotels in Canada and the topic of IPv6 for guest internet connectivity has never been brought up, except by me. It's not a discussion our vendors or the hotel brands have opened either. I would argue customers never asked an IPv4 connection

Re: Hotels/Airports with IPv6

2015-07-09 Thread Marcin Cieslak
On Thu, 9 Jul 2015, Ca By wrote: On Thursday, July 9, 2015, Mel Beckman m...@beckman.org wrote: I working on a large airport WiFi deployment right now. IPv6 is allowed for in the future but not configured in the short term. With less than 10,000 ephemeral users, we don't expect users to

Re: Hotels/Airports with IPv6

2015-07-09 Thread Carsten Bormann
Oliver O'Boyle wrote: It's not their job to even know to ask for a specific protocol version in the first place No. They should just ask, with the best geek intonation, whether this place still is stuck with 32-bit Internet. Grüße, Carsten

Re: Hotels/Airports with IPv6

2015-07-09 Thread Oliver O'Boyle
Unfortunately, the hotel staff wouldn't be able to answer that question. But they might give them free internet in exchange and hope the guest doesn't ask any more questions! On Thu, Jul 9, 2015 at 5:01 PM, Carsten Bormann c...@tzi.org wrote: Oliver O'Boyle wrote: It's not their job to even

Re: Hotels/Airports with IPv6

2015-07-09 Thread Oliver O'Boyle
Unfortunately, there are still some that would report 2mbit via dsl and think that was ahead of their competition (and it might be in some cases...)... On Jul 9, 2015 5:51 PM, Alan Buxey a.l.m.bu...@lboro.ac.uk wrote: No. They should just ask, with the best geek intonation, whether this place

Re: Hotels/Airports with IPv6

2015-07-09 Thread Alan Buxey
No. They should just ask, with the best geek intonation, whether this place still is stuck with 32-bit Internet I'm sure they'd gladly report that their Internet is 24 mbit and not just 32 bit ;) alan