Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Jay Hennigan]

On 5/15/20 02:23, Terrence Koeman via NANOG wrote:

No doubt we should thank the super illegal, criminal and anonymous 
Spamhaus cabal


TINSC!

--
Jay Hennigan - j...@west.net
Network Engineering - CCIE #7880
503 897-8550 - WB6RDV

Re: Don't forget RFG (was: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election)

[Large Hadron Collider]

I feel as though I am reading an amalgamation of the sundry opinions rendered 
by US judges and Justices against such irreputable characters as Prenda Law and 
its shell companies.

Bravo Ron.

Bravo.

But what do I know? I'm just a 20 year old 9th-grader.

On Fri, 15 May 2020 12:10:49 -0700
"Ronald F. Guilmette"  wrote:

> I want to thank Joe Greco  for his kind and generous
> comments.  That having been said, I'm not sure that I either should,
> or even want to take credit for having kicked off *with a single message*
> "a 100+-message flamefest on NANOG".  That was not my intent, and it is
> quite clear that those NANOG subscribers who are interested only in
> operational matters rather wish I hadn't.
>
> I also feel compelled to state that the satisfying conclusion of the
> RIPE NCC Executive Board election, as already reported here by
> Terrence Koeman, most probably has relatively little to do with the
> recent traffic on this list, and relatively more to do with the recent
> traffic on the RIPE members-discuss list, where the candidate in
> question displayed all of the same qualities of tact, diplomacy, and
> generosity as he has recently displayed here.
>
> Then again, the results of the just-completed RIPE NCC Board election
> may perhaps be even more properly ascribed, primarily, to the candidate's
> novel approach to campaigning which, according to numerous credible
> reports, apparently included the spamming of some large fraction of
> the contact email addresses contained within the RIPE WHOIS data base
> with his campaign pitch, including but not limited to varuious abuse@
> and noc@ addresses, some of which received multiple copies.  (No word
> yet on wether or not the candidate has threatened to sue his own campaign
> manager over his subesquently sagging poll numbers.)
>
> Moving right along...
>
> As some of you may have noticed, I have sat silently while being viciously
> and falsely maligned here, in multiple ways, by the (now former) candidate.
> In response, I'd like to just state a couple of things briefly, once, and
> for the record, in order to dispel any doubts that anyone may have 
> entertained.
>
> Firstly, I am not now, nor have I ever been an owner, shareholder, manager,
> employee, agent, affiliate, client, or customer of Spamhaus.  I have no
> business connection to that organization of any kind, nor have I ever
> had any such.  Nor are either they or I contemplating any such for the
> forseeable future.  Any suggestion to the contrary has no basis in fact
> and is quite simply delusional.  Indeed, as anyone who has known me or
> as anyone who has read what I have written over 20+ years of fighting
> spam can attest, I am, if anything, a frequent critic of Spamhaus.  I
> have often gone on the record to assert my belief that that organization
> is too cautious and conservative when meating out what I personally feel
> would be just rewards to various provably irredeamable spammers and
> cybercriminals.
>
> That having been said, the differences between myself and Spamhaus are
> only ones of emphasis, not goals, and just like I do routinely with
> innumerable other anti-spam and anti-cybercrime organizations, I do
> maintain informal channels of communications with Spamhaus, as I also
> do with a vast number of other such commercial and non-commercial
> projects with similarly aligned goals.
>
> If my many industry contacts render me a sinister and malevolent agent
> of some dark and secretive international cabal, then so be it.  In that
> case it would appear that I am not alone, at least judging by the broad
> attendance of several hundred individuals and organizations at the last
> M3AAWG meeting this past February in San Francisco.  All of us are, in
> our own ways, working together to keep the wires open and usable for
> normal people.  That goal is more important now, in the age of Covid-19,
> than it ever has been.  I do not and will not apologize in any way for
> doing this important work, along with so many many others.  Someone
> must keep the lunatics from taking over the asylum and flooding it
> with spam.  That was true even before Covid-19, and it is even vastly
> more true now.
>
> Second and lastly, I am neither a racist nor an antisemite.  I will not
> dignify these false, baseless, and defamatory allegations any further,
> and I most assuredly feel no compulsion to request any of my many jewish
> friends, nor any of my POC friends to come to my defense, especially as
> I need none.
>
> These scurrilous allegations have been presented without evidence or
> factual basis, and have been supported only by tortured distortions of
> my actual words, disturbing attempts to unilaterally (and conveniently)
> redefine the meaning of the already well-understood and well-defined
> English word "race", and by unambiguously malicious innuendo.  I see
> no point in getting down and rolling around in the gutter on these points,
> especially not with a man whose low 

Re: Don't forget RFG (was: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election)

[Ronald F. Guilmette]

I want to thank Joe Greco  for his kind and generous
comments.  That having been said, I'm not sure that I either should,
or even want to take credit for having kicked off *with a single message*
"a 100+-message flamefest on NANOG".  That was not my intent, and it is
quite clear that those NANOG subscribers who are interested only in
operational matters rather wish I hadn't.

I also feel compelled to state that the satisfying conclusion of the
RIPE NCC Executive Board election, as already reported here by
Terrence Koeman, most probably has relatively little to do with the
recent traffic on this list, and relatively more to do with the recent
traffic on the RIPE members-discuss list, where the candidate in
question displayed all of the same qualities of tact, diplomacy, and
generosity as he has recently displayed here.

Then again, the results of the just-completed RIPE NCC Board election
may perhaps be even more properly ascribed, primarily, to the candidate's
novel approach to campaigning which, according to numerous credible
reports, apparently included the spamming of some large fraction of
the contact email addresses contained within the RIPE WHOIS data base
with his campaign pitch, including but not limited to varuious abuse@
and noc@ addresses, some of which received multiple copies.  (No word
yet on wether or not the candidate has threatened to sue his own campaign
manager over his subesquently sagging poll numbers.)

Moving right along...

As some of you may have noticed, I have sat silently while being viciously
and falsely maligned here, in multiple ways, by the (now former) candidate.
In response, I'd like to just state a couple of things briefly, once, and
for the record, in order to dispel any doubts that anyone may have entertained.

Firstly, I am not now, nor have I ever been an owner, shareholder, manager,
employee, agent, affiliate, client, or customer of Spamhaus.  I have no
business connection to that organization of any kind, nor have I ever
had any such.  Nor are either they or I contemplating any such for the
forseeable future.  Any suggestion to the contrary has no basis in fact
and is quite simply delusional.  Indeed, as anyone who has known me or
as anyone who has read what I have written over 20+ years of fighting
spam can attest, I am, if anything, a frequent critic of Spamhaus.  I
have often gone on the record to assert my belief that that organization
is too cautious and conservative when meating out what I personally feel
would be just rewards to various provably irredeamable spammers and
cybercriminals.

That having been said, the differences between myself and Spamhaus are
only ones of emphasis, not goals, and just like I do routinely with
innumerable other anti-spam and anti-cybercrime organizations, I do
maintain informal channels of communications with Spamhaus, as I also
do with a vast number of other such commercial and non-commercial
projects with similarly aligned goals.

If my many industry contacts render me a sinister and malevolent agent
of some dark and secretive international cabal, then so be it.  In that
case it would appear that I am not alone, at least judging by the broad
attendance of several hundred individuals and organizations at the last
M3AAWG meeting this past February in San Francisco.  All of us are, in
our own ways, working together to keep the wires open and usable for
normal people.  That goal is more important now, in the age of Covid-19,
than it ever has been.  I do not and will not apologize in any way for
doing this important work, along with so many many others.  Someone
must keep the lunatics from taking over the asylum and flooding it
with spam.  That was true even before Covid-19, and it is even vastly
more true now.

Second and lastly, I am neither a racist nor an antisemite.  I will not
dignify these false, baseless, and defamatory allegations any further,
and I most assuredly feel no compulsion to request any of my many jewish
friends, nor any of my POC friends to come to my defense, especially as
I need none.

These scurrilous allegations have been presented without evidence or
factual basis, and have been supported only by tortured distortions of
my actual words, disturbing attempts to unilaterally (and conveniently)
redefine the meaning of the already well-understood and well-defined
English word "race", and by unambiguously malicious innuendo.  I see
no point in getting down and rolling around in the gutter on these points,
especially not with a man whose low regard for the truth has already been
made so abundantly clear and apparent to the subscribers of this very list.
I will have nothing more to say about this, at least not in this forum.


Regards,
rfg

Don't forget RFG (was: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election)

[Joe Greco]

On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 11:23:28AM +0200, Terrence Koeman via NANOG wrote:
> FYI, the voting results for the three positions on the RIPE exec 
> board were just announced and Elad was NOT elected.


https://www.ripe.net/participate/meetings/gm/meetings/may-2020

Congratulations to Maria H??ll, Raymond Jetten, and Christian
Kaufmann on their election.

I'm not familiar with any of them, but a quick search suggests that
they are all eminently qualified.

 
> No doubt we should thank the super illegal, criminal and anonymous 
> Spamhaus cabal as well as the super shady and corrupt IPv6 lobby 
> for manipulating this election from the shadows!


Please don't forget the efforts of Ronald F. Guilmette.

I may not agree with RFG on various things, but I applaud the tenacity
he has always displayed, and the ability to instigate a 100+-message
flamefest on NANOG that so clearly demonstrated important qualities
about his target -- now archived in perpetuity.

Ronald, thanks for this public service.  Electing qualified board
members to RIPE, etc., is important, especially in this era that sees
things like the .ORG/PIR/ICANN debacle.

I expect that it is also outside the charter of the list, but on the
other hand, it isn't clear that there's a better place.  These things
are not operational or technical issues, but eventually do come to
have an impact on operations.

Regards,

... JG
-- 
Joe Greco - sol.net Network Services - Milwaukee, WI - http://www.sol.net
"The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way
through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that
democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"-Asimov

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Töma Gavrichenkov]

Peace,

On Fri, May 15, 2020, 12:25 PM Terrence Koeman via NANOG 
wrote:

> FYI, the voting results for the three positions on the RIPE exec board
> were just announced and Elad was NOT elected.
>

A funny moment: Raymond Jetten was elected to the board, and he's the RIPE
IPv6 working group chair.

In a way, RIPE members voted for IPv6 over IPv4+.

--
Töma

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Terrence Koeman via NANOG]

FYI, the voting results for the three positions on the RIPE exec board were 
just announced and Elad was NOT elected.


No doubt we should thank the super illegal, criminal and anonymous Spamhaus 
cabal as well as the super shady and corrupt IPv6 lobby for manipulating this 
election from the shadows!

-- 
Regards,
   Terrence Koeman, PhD/MTh/BPsy
     Darkness Reigns (Holding) B.V.

Please quote relevant replies.
Spelling errors courtesy of my 'smart'phone.

From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" 
Sent: Wednesday, 13 May 2020 11:51
To: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

> Many of you here may be dues-paying members of both ARIN and RIPE. 
>
> Those of you who are may wish to be aware of the fact that there will 
> be an election held on (I believe) May 14th, just a day or two from 
> now, for three open RIPE NCC Executive Board seats. 
>
> I have it on good authority that one of the candidates running for 
> the open RIPE NCC board seats in this election has hired legal 
> counsel in South Africa, and that said legal counsel has then 
> proceeded to threaten various officials of the City of Cape Town, 
> South Africa with possible legal action if they do not relinquish 
> to him their rights in and title to the 165.25.0.0/16 block, a 
> block that all historical records, including even ARIN "WhoWas" 
> historical records show, clearly and unambiguously, has been 
> legally registered to the City of Cape Town for over twenty years. 
> (I am assured that at no time did the City of Cape Town ever sell, 
> trade, or barter away their rights to this valuable IPv4 block, 
> and that they are defending themselves, as best as they can, against 
> this attempt to extort them out of their rightful prooperty.) 
>
> Where I come from, this kind of thing is called barratry, but you 
> be the judge. 
>
> In any case, prior to the RIPE election, I wanted to let you all 
> know these facts about the candidate in question, as well as a 
> number of additional startling facts relating to the people who 
> nominated this candidate for a RIPE NCC Executive board seat, as 
> documented by my friend, South African journalist Jan Vermeulen: 
>
> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/350973-man-connected-to-african-ip-address-heist-running-for-board-position-at-european-ip-address-organisation.html
>  
>
> I could go into more detail about many of the nominators mentioned 
> in the above article, but I don't want to make this email too long, 
> so I'll await some explict request for that additional info.  For now 
> it should suffice to make at least some of the basic facts more widely 
> available, a task which is accomplished just by sharing the above link, 
> IMHO. 
>
>
> Regards, 
> rfg 
>
>
> P.S.  I have been specifically and explicitly enjoined and constrained 
> from posting here anything at all that might smack of being either 
> partisan or of an even vaguely "political" nature, and thus, I will 
> refrain from doing so.  I would be remiss hoever if I did not at least 
> note in passing that history records that in times such as these, when 
> people of good character and good intent are, as they rightly should be, 
> focused on the health and safety of themselves, their loved ones, and 
> their professional collegues, and when the gaze of the world is elsewhere, 
> persons of less than honorable intent reach for power and, with unfortunate 
> regularity, obtain it. 
>
> I cannot and do not ask that those of you who have been saddled with 
> personal or local crises during this sad time turn away from those 
> responsibilities to give attention to matters of Internet governance, 
> however urgent those may appear at the moment.  For all of us, our first- 
> order duty lies nearby, with family, friends, and collegues.  But for 
> those of you who still have a few cycles to spare, I do ask that you 
> consider carefully the newfound and critical importance of this tool, 
> this Internet, in the lives of so many millions, all around the world, 
> and the self-evident risks of its governance being handed over, by default 
> or otherwise, to persons with an interest only in what is best for them 
> personally, to the exclusion of all else. 
>
> P.P.S.  I would be posting this info and the above link also to the 
> very relevant RIPE members-discuss mailing list, but as I am not a 
> due-paying member of RIPE, I have no ability to do so.  Separately, 
> due in no small part to the candidate's own recent and manifest on-list 
> transgressions on that very list, that list has recently been switched 
> to a heavy-handed moderation, under which, it seems, even discussion of 
> the pros and cons of candidates in the upcoming RIPE NCC Executive Board 
> election are now categorized as "too controversial" and thus, themselves, 
> are now entirely off-limits. 
>
> I cannot help but be reminded of a catch-phrase that I saw somewhere, 
> not too long ago: 
>
>  

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Terrence Koeman via NANOG]

Yes... and? If you cannot answer the questions posed, why reply at all? I wrote 
a 100% serious reply to your argument, but you simply fail to engage and write 
something cryptic that has no bearing on the subject (I guess to mask that you 
simply don't understand it).


This is the third time you're doing this (to me at least) and I'm forced to 
conclude that you're not just willfully ignorant, but purposefully malicious. 
Basically a paranoid concern troll with a persecution complex to boot.


I'll route your emails to /dev/null from now on. Apologies to the rest on the 
list for not doing this earlier.


-- 
Regards,
   Terrence Koeman, PhD/MTh/BPsy
     Darkness Reigns (Holding) B.V.

Please quote relevant replies.
Spelling errors courtesy of my 'smart'phone.

From: Elad Cohen 
Sent: Thursday, 14 May 2020 20:19
To: Terrence Koeman; Owen DeLong
Cc: Shane Ronan; North American Network Operators' Group
Subject: [SPAM-MS] Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

> "damages caused to whom and amount to be spent by whom" - You are really 
> good. 
>
>
>  
> From: Terrence Koeman 
> Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2020 8:55 PM 
> To: Elad Cohen; Owen DeLong 
> Cc: Shane Ronan; North American Network Operators' Group 
> Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election 
>
>
> "A degree in economics is not needed to know that if the damages of something 
> is causing x2 the amount that can be spent to avoid the damages - then half 
> of the amount should be spent." 
>
>
> The questions are: damages caused to whom and amount to be spent by whom (& 
> who is going to make them)? If it were a simple case of weighing the 
> aggregate costs of attacks against the aggregate costs of implementation of 
> mitigation, then we would have seen universal implementation of BCP38[1] two 
> decades ago. 
>
>
> Unfortunately, we don't live in a child's mind where things are simple. In 
> reality the parties incurring the costs of attacks are not the same as those 
> that aren't implementing the solutions to prevent them from occurring. 
>
>
> If your neighbor has a credit card debt of $20k on which he's paying 18% 
> interest, and you have savings of $20k on which you are receiving 2% 
> interest, then with your logic you should immediately pay off your neighbors' 
> debt, because that'd be cheaper for you both, collectively. 
>
>
> But of obviously you wouldn't do this, because you're NOT a collective (your 
> neighbors' wallet/bank account and yours are not the same) and thus you both 
> need to be considered separately. You don't need a degree in economics to 
> realise this, just a shred of common sense suffices. 
>
>
> If every network configured their own equipment as well as they wish others 
> would, there wouldn't be a problem in the first place. Fact is, they won't. 
> And getting someone that has already spent time and/or money on configuring 
> their own equipment correctly to pay for the privilege of not getting 
> attacked by the equipment of someone else that is either too lazy or cheap to 
> do so is going to be a tall order. 
>
>
> [1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/bcp38 
>
> -- 
> Regards, 
>    Terrence Koeman, PhD/MTh/BPsy 
>  Darkness Reigns (Holding) B.V. 
>
> Please quote relevant replies. 
> Spelling errors courtesy of my 'smart'phone. 
> ________ 
> From: Elad Cohen  
> Sent: Thursday, 14 May 2020 18:12 
> To: Owen DeLong 
> Cc: Shane Ronan; North American Network Operators' Group 
> Subject: [SPAM-MS] Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election 
>
>
> Me: 
> "A degree in economics is not needed to know that if the damages of something 
> is causing x2 the amount that can be spent to avoid the damages - then half 
> of the amount should be spent." 
>
> Toma: 
> > A degree in economics is not needed [..] 
> "Which is the common thing to say by the ones who don't have it." 
>
> You: 
> "simply wrong on legitimate technical grounds" 
>
>
> You are not a bigotry or hatred, you are just an imbecile. 
>  
> From: Owen DeLong  
> Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2020 7:04 PM 
> To: Elad Cohen  
> Cc: Töma Gavrichenkov ; Shane Ronan 
> ; North American Network Operators' Group 
>  
> Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election 
>
> I don’t see hate. I see legitimate technical disagreement with your 
> hair-brained schemes. 
>
> Perhaps, when a large collection of people with actual engineering experience 
> and deep knowledge tell you that you are simply wrong on legitimate technical 
> grounds, it would be wiser to rethink your position than to accuse them of 
> bigotry 

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Elad Cohen]

"damages caused to whom and amount to be spent by whom" - You are really good.



From: Terrence Koeman
Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2020 8:55 PM
To: Elad Cohen; Owen DeLong
Cc: Shane Ronan; North American Network Operators' Group
Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election


"A degree in economics is not needed to know that if the damages of something 
is causing x2 the amount that can be spent to avoid the damages - then half of 
the amount should be spent."


The questions are: damages caused to whom and amount to be spent by whom (& who 
is going to make them)? If it were a simple case of weighing the aggregate 
costs of attacks against the aggregate costs of implementation of mitigation, 
then we would have seen universal implementation of BCP38[1] two decades ago.


Unfortunately, we don't live in a child's mind where things are simple. In 
reality the parties incurring the costs of attacks are not the same as those 
that aren't implementing the solutions to prevent them from occurring.


If your neighbor has a credit card debt of $20k on which he's paying 18% 
interest, and you have savings of $20k on which you are receiving 2% interest, 
then with your logic you should immediately pay off your neighbors' debt, 
because that'd be cheaper for you both, collectively.


But of obviously you wouldn't do this, because you're NOT a collective (your 
neighbors' wallet/bank account and yours are not the same) and thus you both 
need to be considered separately. You don't need a degree in economics to 
realise this, just a shred of common sense suffices.


If every network configured their own equipment as well as they wish others 
would, there wouldn't be a problem in the first place. Fact is, they won't. And 
getting someone that has already spent time and/or money on configuring their 
own equipment correctly to pay for the privilege of not getting attacked by the 
equipment of someone else that is either too lazy or cheap to do so is going to 
be a tall order.


[1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/bcp38

--
Regards,
   Terrence Koeman, PhD/MTh/BPsy
 Darkness Reigns (Holding) B.V.

Please quote relevant replies.
Spelling errors courtesy of my 'smart'phone.

From: Elad Cohen 
Sent: Thursday, 14 May 2020 18:12
To: Owen DeLong
Cc: Shane Ronan; North American Network Operators' Group
Subject: [SPAM-MS] Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election


Me:
"A degree in economics is not needed to know that if the damages of something 
is causing x2 the amount that can be spent to avoid the damages - then half of 
the amount should be spent."

Toma:
> A degree in economics is not needed [..]
"Which is the common thing to say by the ones who don't have it."

You:
"simply wrong on legitimate technical grounds"


You are not a bigotry or hatred, you are just an imbecile.

From: Owen DeLong 
Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2020 7:04 PM
To: Elad Cohen 
Cc: Töma Gavrichenkov ; Shane Ronan 
; North American Network Operators' Group 

Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

I don’t see hate. I see legitimate technical disagreement with your 
hair-brained schemes.

Perhaps, when a large collection of people with actual engineering experience 
and deep knowledge tell you that you are simply wrong on legitimate technical 
grounds, it would be wiser to rethink your position than to accuse them of 
bigotry and hatred.

Just a thought.

Owen

On May 13, 2020, at 16:48, Elad Cohen  wrote:


You start your posts with Peace but your posts are full of hate.

From: Töma Gavrichenkov 
Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2020 2:17 AM
To: Elad Cohen 
Cc: Shane Ronan ; North American Network Operators' 
Group 
Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

Peace,

On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 2:14 AM Elad Cohen  wrote:
> A degree in economics is not needed [..]

Which is the common thing to say by the ones who don't have it.

I think, dixi.

--
Töma

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Owen DeLong]

[snip]
> Owen DeLong:
> "simply wrong on legitimate technical grounds"
> 
> 
> You are not a bigotry or hatred, you are just an imbecile.
> From: Owen DeLong 
> Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2020 7:04 PM
> To: Elad Cohen 
> Cc: Töma Gavrichenkov ; Shane Ronan 
> ; North American Network Operators' Group 
> 
> Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election
>  
> I don’t see hate. I see legitimate technical disagreement with your 
> hair-brained schemes. 
> 
> Perhaps, when a large collection of people with actual engineering experience 
> and deep knowledge tell you that you are simply wrong on legitimate technical 
> grounds, it would be wiser to rethink your position than to accuse them of 
> bigotry and hatred. 
> 
> Just a thought. 
> 
> Owen
> 
[snip]

This is at least the third time you’ve called me an imbecile on this list, 
though the first time you’ve spelled it correctly.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imbecile <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imbecile>

Since I don’t meet any of the technical or scientific definitions previously 
used for the term, I can only assume that you intend it in its vernacular 
meaning as a derogatory remark which amounts to ad hominem attacks prohibited 
by list policy.

Unless it is your goal to be moderated and/or removed from the list, I suggest 
you stick to arguing the merits (or rather lack thereof) of your position and 
cease the ad hominem attacks.

Owen

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Terrence Koeman via NANOG]

"A degree in economics is not needed to know that if the damages of something 
is causing x2 the amount that can be spent to avoid the damages - then half of 
the amount should be spent."


The questions are: damages caused to whom and amount to be spent by whom (& who 
is going to make them)? If it were a simple case of weighing the aggregate 
costs of attacks against the aggregate costs of implementation of mitigation, 
then we would have seen universal implementation of BCP38[1] two decades ago.


Unfortunately, we don't live in a child's mind where things are simple. In 
reality the parties incurring the costs of attacks are not the same as those 
that aren't implementing the solutions to prevent them from occurring.


If your neighbor has a credit card debt of $20k on which he's paying 18% 
interest, and you have savings of $20k on which you are receiving 2% interest, 
then with your logic you should immediately pay off your neighbors' debt, 
because that'd be cheaper for you both, collectively.


But of obviously you wouldn't do this, because you're NOT a collective (your 
neighbors' wallet/bank account and yours are not the same) and thus you both 
need to be considered separately. You don't need a degree in economics to 
realise this, just a shred of common sense suffices.


If every network configured their own equipment as well as they wish others 
would, there wouldn't be a problem in the first place. Fact is, they won't. And 
getting someone that has already spent time and/or money on configuring their 
own equipment correctly to pay for the privilege of not getting attacked by the 
equipment of someone else that is either too lazy or cheap to do so is going to 
be a tall order.


[1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/bcp38

-- 
Regards,
   Terrence Koeman, PhD/MTh/BPsy
     Darkness Reigns (Holding) B.V.

Please quote relevant replies.
Spelling errors courtesy of my 'smart'phone.

From: Elad Cohen 
Sent: Thursday, 14 May 2020 18:12
To: Owen DeLong
Cc: Shane Ronan; North American Network Operators' Group
Subject: [SPAM-MS] Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

> Me: 
> "A degree in economics is not needed to know that if the damages of something 
> is causing x2 the amount that can be spent to avoid the damages - then half 
> of the amount should be spent." 
>
> Toma: 
> > A degree in economics is not needed [..] 
> "Which is the common thing to say by the ones who don't have it." 
>
> You: 
> "simply wrong on legitimate technical grounds" 
>
>
> You are not a bigotry or hatred, you are just an imbecile. 
>  
> From: Owen DeLong  
> Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2020 7:04 PM 
> To: Elad Cohen  
> Cc: Töma Gavrichenkov ; Shane Ronan 
> ; North American Network Operators' Group 
>  
> Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election 
>
> I don’t see hate. I see legitimate technical disagreement with your 
> hair-brained schemes. 
>
> Perhaps, when a large collection of people with actual engineering experience 
> and deep knowledge tell you that you are simply wrong on legitimate technical 
> grounds, it would be wiser to rethink your position than to accuse them of 
> bigotry and hatred. 
>
> Just a thought. 
>
> Owen 
>
> On May 13, 2020, at 16:48, Elad Cohen  wrote: 
>
>  
> You start your posts with Peace but your posts are full of hate. 
> ____ 
> From: Töma Gavrichenkov  
> Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2020 2:17 AM 
> To: Elad Cohen  
> Cc: Shane Ronan ; North American Network Operators' 
> Group  
> Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election 
>
> Peace, 
>
> On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 2:14 AM Elad Cohen  wrote: 
> > A degree in economics is not needed [..] 
>
> Which is the common thing to say by the ones who don't have it. 
>
> I think, dixi. 
>
> -- 
> Töma 


smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Elad Cohen]

Me:
"A degree in economics is not needed to know that if the damages of something 
is causing x2 the amount that can be spent to avoid the damages - then half of 
the amount should be spent."

Toma:
> A degree in economics is not needed [..]
"Which is the common thing to say by the ones who don't have it."

You:
"simply wrong on legitimate technical grounds"


You are not a bigotry or hatred, you are just an imbecile.

From: Owen DeLong 
Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2020 7:04 PM
To: Elad Cohen 
Cc: Töma Gavrichenkov ; Shane Ronan 
; North American Network Operators' Group 

Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

I don’t see hate. I see legitimate technical disagreement with your 
hair-brained schemes.

Perhaps, when a large collection of people with actual engineering experience 
and deep knowledge tell you that you are simply wrong on legitimate technical 
grounds, it would be wiser to rethink your position than to accuse them of 
bigotry and hatred.

Just a thought.

Owen

On May 13, 2020, at 16:48, Elad Cohen  wrote:


You start your posts with Peace but your posts are full of hate.

From: Töma Gavrichenkov 
Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2020 2:17 AM
To: Elad Cohen 
Cc: Shane Ronan ; North American Network Operators' 
Group 
Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

Peace,

On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 2:14 AM Elad Cohen  wrote:
> A degree in economics is not needed [..]

Which is the common thing to say by the ones who don't have it.

I think, dixi.

--
Töma

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Owen DeLong]

I don’t see hate. I see legitimate technical disagreement with your 
hair-brained schemes. 

Perhaps, when a large collection of people with actual engineering experience 
and deep knowledge tell you that you are simply wrong on legitimate technical 
grounds, it would be wiser to rethink your position than to accuse them of 
bigotry and hatred. 

Just a thought. 

Owen

> On May 13, 2020, at 16:48, Elad Cohen  wrote:
> 
> 
> You start your posts with Peace but your posts are full of hate.
> From: Töma Gavrichenkov 
> Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2020 2:17 AM
> To: Elad Cohen 
> Cc: Shane Ronan ; North American Network Operators' 
> Group 
> Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election
>  
> Peace,
> 
> On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 2:14 AM Elad Cohen  wrote:
> > A degree in economics is not needed [..]
> 
> Which is the common thing to say by the ones who don't have it.
> 
> I think, dixi.
> 
> --
> Töma

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Dave Bell]

You just reminded me to vote. Thanks!

On Thu, 14 May 2020 at 12:32, Elad Cohen  wrote:

> The public will decide.
> --
> *From:* NANOG  on behalf of Baldur Norddahl <
> baldur.nordd...@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 14, 2020 10:25 AM
> *To:* nanog@nanog.org 
> *Subject:* Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election
>
> That statement makes no sense. Everyone also get free IPv6 and almost
> everyone have equipment that can do IPv6. All anyone has to do is configure
> his free IPv6.
>
> tor. 14. maj 2020 01.56 skrev Elad Cohen :
>
> At the moment this is exactly what happen, but companies are buying IPv4+,
> when they can receive them for free with IPv4+.
> --
> *From:* NANOG  on behalf of Brielle <
> br...@2mbit.com>
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 14, 2020 2:40 AM
> *To:* NANOG list 
> *Subject:* Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election
>
> What makes you think that companies are going to spend money and time on
> your “solution” when they’re having to be dragged kicking and screaming to
> fully enable IPv6 to every endpoint on their networks?
>
> Most places already OWN IPv6 capable routers/equipment, they’re just
> either being lazy in setting it up (“no reason to” excuse) or there’s not
> enough customer demand for them to take the time.
>
> You don’t seem to have a firm grasp on WHY IPv6 adoption is taking so
> long.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On May 13, 2020, at 5:15 PM, Elad Cohen  wrote:
>
> 
> A degree in economics is not needed to know that if the damages of
> something is causing x2 the amount that can be spent to avoid the damages -
> then half of the amount should be spent.
> --
> *From:* Töma Gavrichenkov 
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 14, 2020 2:09 AM
> *To:* Elad Cohen 
> *Cc:* Shane Ronan ; North American Network
> Operators' Group 
> *Subject:* Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election
>
> Peace,
>
> On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 2:04 AM Elad Cohen  wrote:
> > [..] for example if spoofed DDoS amplification attacks are
> > causing yearly damages of $100M per year in the world
> > and these EOL equipment cost $50M in the world, it
> > might be worth to replace them)
>
> What's your degree in economics?  Is it an MBA, and if yes, then where?
>
> Quite frankly, when it comes to your biography published on the
> candidates page, we honestly don't even know if you're even succeeded
> in primary school.  There's nothing telling about this.
>
> What engineering experience do you have?
>
> --
> Töma
>
>

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Elad Cohen]

The public will decide.

From: NANOG  on behalf of Baldur Norddahl 

Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2020 10:25 AM
To: nanog@nanog.org 
Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

That statement makes no sense. Everyone also get free IPv6 and almost everyone 
have equipment that can do IPv6. All anyone has to do is configure his free 
IPv6.

tor. 14. maj 2020 01.56 skrev Elad Cohen 
mailto:e...@netstyle.io>>:
At the moment this is exactly what happen, but companies are buying IPv4+, when 
they can receive them for free with IPv4+.

From: NANOG mailto:nanog-boun...@nanog.org>> on behalf 
of Brielle mailto:br...@2mbit.com>>
Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2020 2:40 AM
To: NANOG list mailto:nanog@nanog.org>>
Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

What makes you think that companies are going to spend money and time on your 
“solution” when they’re having to be dragged kicking and screaming to fully 
enable IPv6 to every endpoint on their networks?

Most places already OWN IPv6 capable routers/equipment, they’re just either 
being lazy in setting it up (“no reason to” excuse) or there’s not enough 
customer demand for them to take the time.

You don’t seem to have a firm grasp on WHY IPv6 adoption is taking so long.

Sent from my iPad

On May 13, 2020, at 5:15 PM, Elad Cohen 
mailto:e...@netstyle.io>> wrote:


A degree in economics is not needed to know that if the damages of something is 
causing x2 the amount that can be spent to avoid the damages - then half of the 
amount should be spent.

From: Töma Gavrichenkov mailto:xima...@gmail.com>>
Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2020 2:09 AM
To: Elad Cohen mailto:e...@netstyle.io>>
Cc: Shane Ronan mailto:sh...@ronan-online.com>>; North 
American Network Operators' Group mailto:nanog@nanog.org>>
Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

Peace,

On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 2:04 AM Elad Cohen 
mailto:e...@netstyle.io>> wrote:
> [..] for example if spoofed DDoS amplification attacks are
> causing yearly damages of $100M per year in the world
> and these EOL equipment cost $50M in the world, it
> might be worth to replace them)

What's your degree in economics?  Is it an MBA, and if yes, then where?

Quite frankly, when it comes to your biography published on the
candidates page, we honestly don't even know if you're even succeeded
in primary school.  There's nothing telling about this.

What engineering experience do you have?

--
Töma

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Baldur Norddahl]

That statement makes no sense. Everyone also get free IPv6 and almost
everyone have equipment that can do IPv6. All anyone has to do is configure
his free IPv6.

tor. 14. maj 2020 01.56 skrev Elad Cohen :

> At the moment this is exactly what happen, but companies are buying IPv4+,
> when they can receive them for free with IPv4+.
> --
> *From:* NANOG  on behalf of Brielle <
> br...@2mbit.com>
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 14, 2020 2:40 AM
> *To:* NANOG list 
> *Subject:* Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election
>
> What makes you think that companies are going to spend money and time on
> your “solution” when they’re having to be dragged kicking and screaming to
> fully enable IPv6 to every endpoint on their networks?
>
> Most places already OWN IPv6 capable routers/equipment, they’re just
> either being lazy in setting it up (“no reason to” excuse) or there’s not
> enough customer demand for them to take the time.
>
> You don’t seem to have a firm grasp on WHY IPv6 adoption is taking so
> long.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On May 13, 2020, at 5:15 PM, Elad Cohen  wrote:
>
> 
> A degree in economics is not needed to know that if the damages of
> something is causing x2 the amount that can be spent to avoid the damages -
> then half of the amount should be spent.
> --
> *From:* Töma Gavrichenkov 
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 14, 2020 2:09 AM
> *To:* Elad Cohen 
> *Cc:* Shane Ronan ; North American Network
> Operators' Group 
> *Subject:* Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election
>
> Peace,
>
> On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 2:04 AM Elad Cohen  wrote:
> > [..] for example if spoofed DDoS amplification attacks are
> > causing yearly damages of $100M per year in the world
> > and these EOL equipment cost $50M in the world, it
> > might be worth to replace them)
>
> What's your degree in economics?  Is it an MBA, and if yes, then where?
>
> Quite frankly, when it comes to your biography published on the
> candidates page, we honestly don't even know if you're even succeeded
> in primary school.  There's nothing telling about this.
>
> What engineering experience do you have?
>
> --
> Töma
>
>

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[bzs]

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAeqVGP-GPM

-- 
-Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die| b...@theworld.com | http://www.TheWorld.com
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: +1 617-STD-WRLD   | 800-THE-WRLD
The World: Since 1989  | A Public Information Utility | *oo*

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Terrence Koeman via NANOG]

"illegal", "anonymous", "racist"


"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

— Inigo Montoya

-- 
Regards,
   Terrence Koeman, PhD/MTh/BPsy
     Darkness Reigns (Holding) B.V.

Please quote relevant replies.
Spelling errors courtesy of my 'smart'phone.

From: Elad Cohen 
Sent: Thursday, 14 May 2020 04:22
To: Owen DeLong
Cc: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: [SPAM-MS] Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

>  
> This is the second time I’ve seen you make this claim in public. I see 
> nothing in the slide deck you linked which claims they are illegal. 
>  
> According to their private presentation in the following link - they receive 
> on a regular basis private data from their contacts in internet companies and 
> internet organizations in illegal way - and then they share it with Law 
> Enforcement Agencies in illegal way (without any warrant). 
>
> https://www.scribd.com/document/445894312/Spamhaus-Illegal-Private-Data-Violation
>  
>
>
>
>  
> Nor does it say that they are anonymous, in fact, the CIO’s name (Richard D G 
> Cox) is prominently displayed on the title slide. 
>  
> Spamhaus using fake names such as "Mike Anderson", "Rob Shultz", "Thomas 
> Morrison", "Pete Dewas" - is a fact. 
> Richard D G Cox name is displayed in the presentation - because it was a 
> private presentation that was displayed in a private event and they never 
> knew that it will become public. 
>
>
>
>  
> I seriously doubt that if they were truly the criminals you say they are, 
> they would be permitted to name the FBI as a partner on their website: 
> https://www.spamhaus.org/organization/ 
>  
> They are helping Law Enforcement Agencies on a regular basis and in very high 
> volume according to their own presentation (by sharing with them all the 
> illegaly-obtained privacy data) - so Law Enforcement Agencies look the other 
> way. 
>
>
>
>  
> I also sincerely doubt that if they were criminals, as you state, that they 
> would be admitted as members, let alone receive awards from the National 
> Cber-Forensics and Training Alliance. 
>  
> Some of the employees of Spamhaus are past members of Law Enforcement 
> Agencies, such as Andrew Fried (from deteque.com - owned by Spamhaus) - which 
> was a former special agent in USA government before hoped to his new job at 
> Spamhaus. They are connected to the Law Enforcement Agencies in the Western 
> world. 
>
>
>
>  
> Indeed, ISPA has also presented them with an “Internet Hero Award”. 
>  
> Yes, they help Law Enforcement Agencies, but in illegal way. 
>
>
>
>  
> Frankly, when it comes to the issues of criminality, I think Spamhaus has 
> significantly more credibility than you do. 
>  
> Thank you for keep taking part in the illegal cyber influence operation. I 
> dislike the word "credibility" - I like the words facts and data. Facts and 
> data are booleans and don't let imbaciles like you are to have an opinion, 
> please relate to facts and to data. 
>
>
>
>  
> That’s an awfully strange interpretation of (presumably): 
> “Spamhaus holds a lot of information provided in confidence by industry 
> players — on the understanding that it can be made available to LEAs where 
> needed.” 
>  
> confidence means illegal unless you are an imbacile, industry players means 
> internet companies and internet organizations, "on the understanding" - 
> meaning that their contacts that shared with them the mass privcay data know 
> that this data can be available to LEAs without any warrant "where needed". 
>
>
>
>  
> Uh, sure, and I’m the Prince of Whales. 
>  
> Ronald doesn't deny it, so you are denying it for him? 
>
>
>
>  
> At this point, the best you’ve got on this list is an a-said/b-said with no 
> public evidence on either side. In such a case, it boils down to credibility 
> and frankly, IMHO, yours is lacking. 
>  
> Yours lacking. You are asking from me to share with you private business 
> documents publicly ? who are you ? 
>
>
>
>  
> Quote 1 might be bad style on RFG’s part, but style and eloquence have never 
> been his strong suits. 
>  
> People that cover up racism are worst than racists. 
>
>
>
>  
> a meticulous researcher and brutally honest 
>  
> Proofs ? Facts ? Data ? Ever heared on any of these ? instead of mumbling 
> here that Coconut Guilmette is a meticulous researcher and brutally honest. 
>
> Here just one note on his "honesty", Coconut Gui

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Valdis Klētnieks]

On Wed, 13 May 2020 17:17:07 -, David Hubbard said:

> LOL the IPv4+ thing was a pretty entertaining read.  You clearly don’t have
> even a basic understanding of the v4 packet structure, or that the octet
> display concept is simply for human benefit.  IPv6 can be implemented with
> ‘software updates’ too…

Yes, it was quite the chuckle, approaching the IPv8 proposal and that guy who
kept insisting that an octet was misnumbered and could represent 257 
addresses...

> From: NANOG  on behalf of Elad Cohen 
> 
> Date: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 at 9:47 AM
> To: "Ronald F. Guilmette" , "nanog@nanog.org" 
> 
> Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election
>
> Hello Everyone,

> My apology for not providing an official response to the first "The Ronald
> Show" that took place here many months ago, I was out of hospital after full
> anesthesia and it took me months to get back to myself.

I'm pretty sure Elad should have used this next part for backing up his
assertion that he was totally out of it during April.

Because he's doing a really good job here of demonstrating that he doesn't
understand how the Internet works well enough to qualify for a seat on the RIPE
board:

> When in reality I invented three new pantets for the best of the whole 
> Internet community and I will work to implement them if I will be elected:
>
> IPv4+ that will mitigate the "IPv4 Exhaustion" problem and will add more (...)
> https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/members-discuss/2020-April/003676.html
>
> Completely mitigating the global email spam problem in a clean and automatic 
> way: (...)
> https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/members-discuss/2020-April/003778.html
>
> Completely mitigating spoofed ip amplification DDoS attacks and spoofed ip 
> (...)
> https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/members-discuss/2020-April/003902.html
>


pgpNIVEs4cFUw.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Valdis Klētnieks]

On Wed, 13 May 2020 17:00:14 -0400, Jon Lewis said:

> When you've convinced Cisco, Juniper, Arista, and a few other router
> vendors to implement, and have submitted patches for the Linux kernel and
> userspace to implement IPv4+ (good luck with all that...and expect to be
> met with "Can we have some of what you've been smoking?"), then you can
> start pushing your next gen IP concepts.  Until then, it's a total
> non-starter.

At least when Dave Taht was pushing his "make the class E space usable",
he had patches and testing for multiple systems.  Turns out that not many
systems check for 'first octet >= 240', but actually test for the class D space
and using class E Just Works an amazing percent of the time

(Yes, I was surprised myself, but deploying it is still very much in the
"effort better spent deploying IPv6" territory...)



pgpjih5Xpru8u.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Richard]

Coconut Guilmette will not be able to show a single
> proof to anything in that linked text paragraph of his.
> I'm willing to show evidences of the exact opposite to one respected
> member of Nanog and he will confirm it to the Nanog community (for
> example to William Herrin).
>
>
>
> 
> /Are you attempting to hide the rest of the thread from closer
> scrutiny while cherry-picking quotes you hope support your narrative?/
> 
> Racism is racism, you are again trying to to justify racism. The
> person that called Ronald a racist and the person that called Ronald
> an antisemitic - both of them read everything he wrote.
>
>
>
> 
> /Quote 3 is the most amusing in that the person all but states that
> you, Mr. Cohen, are acting guilty of the allegations made by RFG and
> that the original poster thinks you both have things to answer for./
> 
> No, that response regarding me was due to the lies of Coconut
> Guilmette like I showed above. And there were many many more lies -
> everything that Coconut Guilmette wrote about me was without any
> single proof against me - only from his imagination.
> Are you comparing the quote of stating that I need to answer to the
> lies of Coconut Guilmette to the quote which is stating that Ronald is
> an antisemitic ???
>
>
>
> 
> /Ron has UI problems, to be sure. Not the least of which, he doesn’t
> filter and doesn’t put any effort into political correctness. He
> definitely lacks polish and a certain level of social skills./
> 
> Nice way to cover up a person which is a racist and an antisemitic,
> and was called a racist and an antisemitic not by me but by people
> which are not related to me.
>
>
>
> 
> /I don’t think for one second that he is actually a racist or a bigot.
> He identifies patterns and calls out what he sees. Often without
> regard for the collateral damage./
> 
> Patterns like country-origin ? city-origin ? race-patterns ? This is
> called racism, you are still trying to cover up a racist and an
> antisemitic.
>
>
>
> 
> /You, Mr. Cohen, are not collateral. You are dead center of the
> wrongdoing he’s been pointing out./
> 
> The only wrongdoing is him not going to a complete health check and
> you covering up a racist and an antisemitic.
>
>
>
> 
> /Just because RFG used racist terms and you happen to be Israeli (and
> for all I know Jewish, too), doesn’t mean that his accusations against
> you are baseless or inaccurate./
> 
> or Proof-less ???
> And now in this sentence you are confirming that he is a racist and
> antisemitic - so why you wrote all the above?
>
>
>
> 
> /Is it your claim that the following article:
> /
> /https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/318205-the-big-south-african-ip-address-heist-how-millions-are-made-on-the-grey-market.html
> /
> /is entirely baseless? Do you have any documentation to support such a
> claim?/
> 
> Here is the latest ordered article from the illegal anonymous
> organization "The Spamhaus Project" in that site:
>
> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/350973-man-connected-to-african-ip-address-heist-running-for-board-position-at-european-ip-address-organisation.html
>
> And in it you can see that is written:
>
> "It must be noted that Cohen is not being accused of any illegal
> activity in this report."
>
> That is the last article after the mumbo-jumbo that you linked.
>
> The site wrote it because they know that as you wrote - everything is
> entirely baseless - but it doesn't matter to them - all they want is
> to defame me and to hurt my chances to join the RIPE board, because
> they know that I will put an end to the illegal anonymous organization
> "The Spamhaus Project" if I will be elected, the defamation towards me
> is only because I dared to stand up against the illegal anonymouos
> organization "The Spamhaus Project".
>
>
>
> 
> /Just out of curiosity… Is this you, too?
> /
> /https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-dismisses-head-of-co-ed-idf-unit-for-suspected-relationship-with-subordinate/
> /
> 
> Just out of curiosity... Is this you, too?
> https://hawaiianeyetours.com/files/672%20Size%20Images/humpback_whale_breach.jpg
>
>
> 
> *From:* Owen DeLong 
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 14, 2020 12:07 AM
> *To:* Elad Cohen 
> *Cc:* Ronald F. Guilmette ; nanog@nanog.org
> 
> *Subject:* Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election
>  
>> "The Spamhaus Project" is an illegal anonymous organization according
>> to their own words in their own following presentation:
&

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Elad Cohen]

f the allegations made by RFG and that the original 
poster thinks you both have things to answer for.

No, that response regarding me was due to the lies of Coconut Guilmette like I 
showed above. And there were many many more lies - everything that Coconut 
Guilmette wrote about me was without any single proof against me - only from 
his imagination.
Are you comparing the quote of stating that I need to answer to the lies of 
Coconut Guilmette to the quote which is stating that Ronald is an antisemitic 
???




Ron has UI problems, to be sure. Not the least of which, he doesn’t filter and 
doesn’t put any effort into political correctness. He definitely lacks polish 
and a certain level of social skills.

Nice way to cover up a person which is a racist and an antisemitic, and was 
called a racist and an antisemitic not by me but by people which are not 
related to me.




I don’t think for one second that he is actually a racist or a bigot. He 
identifies patterns and calls out what he sees. Often without regard for the 
collateral damage.

Patterns like country-origin ? city-origin ? race-patterns ? This is called 
racism, you are still trying to cover up a racist and an antisemitic.




You, Mr. Cohen, are not collateral. You are dead center of the wrongdoing he’s 
been pointing out.

The only wrongdoing is him not going to a complete health check and you 
covering up a racist and an antisemitic.




Just because RFG used racist terms and you happen to be Israeli (and for all I 
know Jewish, too), doesn’t mean that his accusations against you are baseless 
or inaccurate.

or Proof-less ???
And now in this sentence you are confirming that he is a racist and antisemitic 
- so why you wrote all the above?




Is it your claim that the following article:
https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/318205-the-big-south-african-ip-address-heist-how-millions-are-made-on-the-grey-market.html
is entirely baseless? Do you have any documentation to support such a claim?

Here is the latest ordered article from the illegal anonymous organization "The 
Spamhaus Project" in that site:

https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/350973-man-connected-to-african-ip-address-heist-running-for-board-position-at-european-ip-address-organisation.html

And in it you can see that is written:

"It must be noted that Cohen is not being accused of any illegal activity in 
this report."

That is the last article after the mumbo-jumbo that you linked.

The site wrote it because they know that as you wrote - everything is entirely 
baseless - but it doesn't matter to them - all they want is to defame me and to 
hurt my chances to join the RIPE board, because they know that I will put an 
end to the illegal anonymous organization "The Spamhaus Project" if I will be 
elected, the defamation towards me is only because I dared to stand up against 
the illegal anonymouos organization "The Spamhaus Project".




Just out of curiosity… Is this you, too?
https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-dismisses-head-of-co-ed-idf-unit-for-suspected-relationship-with-subordinate/

Just out of curiosity... Is this you, too?
https://hawaiianeyetours.com/files/672%20Size%20Images/humpback_whale_breach.jpg



From: Owen DeLong 
Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2020 12:07 AM
To: Elad Cohen 
Cc: Ronald F. Guilmette ; nanog@nanog.org 

Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

"The Spamhaus Project" is an illegal anonymous organization according to their 
own words in their own following presentation:

https://www.scribd.com/document/445894312/Spamhaus-Illegal-Private-Data-Violation

This is the second time I’ve seen you make this claim in public. I see nothing 
in the slide deck you linked which claims they are illegal.

Nor does it say that they are anonymous, in fact, the CIO’s name (Richard D G 
Cox) is prominently displayed on the title slide.

I seriously doubt that if they were truly the criminals you say they are, they 
would be permitted to name the FBI as a partner on their website: 
https://www.spamhaus.org/organization/

I also sincerely doubt that if they were criminals, as you state, that they 
would be admitted as members, let alone receive awards from the National 
Cber-Forensics and Training Alliance.

Indeed, ISPA has also presented them with an “Internet Hero Award”.

Frankly, when it comes to the issues of criminality, I think Spamhaus has 
significantly more credibility than you do.

They wrote in it that they receive on a regular basis - massive amount of 
illegaly-obtained privacy data from their contacts in many internet companies 
and internet organizations - and then they share it in illegal way (without any 
warrant) with Law Enforcement Agencies - this is the reason that Law 
Enforcement Agencies are doing nothing regarding the illegal anonymous 
organization "The Spamhaus Project”.

Tha

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Large Hadron Collider]

In general, such a statement, although misleading, is not wrong. However, 
having the knowledge ordinarily associated with such a degree definitely helps 
a lot with the understanding you need to comprehend the matters the degree 
would cover.

On Thu, 14 May 2020 02:17:37 +0300
Töma Gavrichenkov  wrote:

> Peace,
>
> On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 2:14 AM Elad Cohen  wrote:
> > A degree in economics is not needed [..]
>
> Which is the common thing to say by the ones who don't have it.
>
> I think, dixi.
>
> --
> Töma


--
Large Hadron Collider 

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Elad Cohen]

You are right, more IPv4 addresses are not needed.

From: Owen DeLong 
Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2020 12:17 AM
To: Elad Cohen 
Cc: Mikael Abrahamsson ; NANOG list 
Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election



On May 13, 2020, at 12:36 , Elad Cohen 
mailto:e...@netstyle.io>> wrote:


Do you realise that this means you're requiring changing *every*
socket-speaking application in the world?

Every internet host that will want to speak IPv4+ , will have an update (for 
example through the operating systems automatic updates mechanisms)

Uh… You left out Every Application on Every Host.

How do all of those applications get updated (some fo which are in-house custom 
code whose maintainers long since retired).

If you’re recoding all the applications, that’s pretty much the last hurdle 
left at this point for IPv6, so what’s the advantage of IPv4+ at this point? 
None whatsoever.




It's taken us decades to get applications to use the new struct to support
IPv6+IPv4, resetting the timer back to 0 and starting over does not help
deployment. It just kicks it another 20 years down the line.

I wrote about the usage of a roundtable in order to implement everything fast 
(the roundtable will include one representative from each of the operating 
system vendors, one representative from each of the routing equipment 
manufacturers and one representative from each of the 5 RIR's), if I will be 
elected to RIPE board I will do everything in my power so this roundtable will 
be formed fast and that the needed updates will be created fast. Each party in 
the roundtable will receive an amount of free IPv4 addresses from the new IPv4+ 
pool, and each ASN will also receive for example a /21 , home-routers and 
home-modems will not be needed to be updated and they will support IPv4+.



You're just inventing yet another incompatible standard and you have to
touch everything, DHCP, DNS all applications etc.

There is an adjustment to IPv4+ that the format of addresses will not be 
[0-655365].[0-655365]v4 - but it will be [256-511].[0-255].[0-255].[0-255]
So IPv4+ addresses will be in the format of IPv4 addresses - it will end-user 
adoption of IPv4+ easier and also integration in the applicative layer easier 
(as application developers will only need to set that the first number can be 
higher instead to support a new format of [0-655365].[0-655365]v4 )

So you want to retain all the need for NAT, continue to make end-users 
second-class citizens, avoid most of the gains and improvements of IPv6, while 
reducing the workload involved in adoption by (oh, wait, you’re increasing the 
workload required)…

Where’s the win in this, exactly?

Owen




From: Mikael Abrahamsson mailto:swm...@swm.pp.se>>
Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 10:22 PM
To: Elad Cohen mailto:e...@netstyle.io>>
Cc: Brielle mailto:br...@2mbit.com>>; NANOG list 
mailto:nanog@nanog.org>>
Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

On Wed, 13 May 2020, Elad Cohen wrote:

> LOL funny seeing you changing your mind by 180 degrees when someone you
> know in the community writing to you the exact same thing.

"In addition, the sockets API should be extended to support IPxl with a
new socket domain PF_IPXL which is identical to PF_INET in every respect
save that the IP addresses are 8 bytes long instead of 4."

Do you realise that this means you're requiring changing *every*
socket-speaking application in the world?

It's taken us decades to get applications to use the new struct to support
IPv6+IPv4, resetting the timer back to 0 and starting over does not help
deployment. It just kicks it another 20 years down the line.

You're just inventing yet another incompatible standard and you have to
touch everything, DHCP, DNS all applications etc.

--
Mikael Abrahamssonemail: swm...@swm.pp.se<mailto:swm...@swm.pp.se>

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Randy Bush]

>> Another member of the illegal anonymous organization "The Spamhaus Project".
> wait, what?

be proud.  i like spamhaus.  solid, responsive, and responsible.

randy

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Pennington, Scott]

Can this slap fight go somewhere besides this list?


From: NANOG  on behalf of Elad Cohen 
Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 7:34 PM
To: Töma Gavrichenkov 
Cc: Shane Ronan ; North American Network Operators' 
Group 
Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

You start your posts with Peace but your posts are full of hate.

From: Töma Gavrichenkov 
Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2020 2:17 AM
To: Elad Cohen 
Cc: Shane Ronan ; North American Network Operators' 
Group 
Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

Peace,

On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 2:14 AM Elad Cohen  wrote:
> A degree in economics is not needed [..]

Which is the common thing to say by the ones who don't have it.

I think, dixi.

--
Töma

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Elad Cohen]

At the moment this is exactly what happen, but companies are buying IPv4+, when 
they can receive them for free with IPv4+.

From: NANOG  on behalf of Brielle 
Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2020 2:40 AM
To: NANOG list 
Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

What makes you think that companies are going to spend money and time on your 
“solution” when they’re having to be dragged kicking and screaming to fully 
enable IPv6 to every endpoint on their networks?

Most places already OWN IPv6 capable routers/equipment, they’re just either 
being lazy in setting it up (“no reason to” excuse) or there’s not enough 
customer demand for them to take the time.

You don’t seem to have a firm grasp on WHY IPv6 adoption is taking so long.

Sent from my iPad

On May 13, 2020, at 5:15 PM, Elad Cohen  wrote:


A degree in economics is not needed to know that if the damages of something is 
causing x2 the amount that can be spent to avoid the damages - then half of the 
amount should be spent.

From: Töma Gavrichenkov 
Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2020 2:09 AM
To: Elad Cohen 
Cc: Shane Ronan ; North American Network Operators' 
Group 
Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

Peace,

On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 2:04 AM Elad Cohen  wrote:
> [..] for example if spoofed DDoS amplification attacks are
> causing yearly damages of $100M per year in the world
> and these EOL equipment cost $50M in the world, it
> might be worth to replace them)

What's your degree in economics?  Is it an MBA, and if yes, then where?

Quite frankly, when it comes to your biography published on the
candidates page, we honestly don't even know if you're even succeeded
in primary school.  There's nothing telling about this.

What engineering experience do you have?

--
Töma

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Valerie Wittkop]

NANOG Staff member that is granted the privilege of reading the list and 
ensuring all folks adhere to the Usage Guidelines 
<https://www.nanog.org/resources/usage-guidelines/> of the list here…

Please note this thread is off topic from the subject line.

If people on the list would like to continue a discussion about IPv4, IPv4+ and 
IPv6, please do so under a new thread and ensure you follow Usage Guidelines.

Thank you.

Valerie

Valerie Wittkop - NANOG Program Director
305 E. Eisenhower Pkwy, Suite 100, Ann Arbor, MI 48108
Tel: +1 866 902 1336, ext 103

> On May 13, 2020, at 7:40 PM, Brielle  wrote:
> 
> What makes you think that companies are going to spend money and time on your 
> “solution” when they’re having to be dragged kicking and screaming to fully 
> enable IPv6 to every endpoint on their networks?  
> 
> Most places already OWN IPv6 capable routers/equipment, they’re just either 
> being lazy in setting it up (“no reason to” excuse) or there’s not enough 
> customer demand for them to take the time.
> 
> You don’t seem to have a firm grasp on WHY IPv6 adoption is taking so long. 
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On May 13, 2020, at 5:15 PM, Elad Cohen  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> A degree in economics is not needed to know that if the damages of something 
>> is causing x2 the amount that can be spent to avoid the damages - then half 
>> of the amount should be spent.
>> From: Töma Gavrichenkov 
>> Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2020 2:09 AM
>> To: Elad Cohen 
>> Cc: Shane Ronan ; North American Network Operators' 
>> Group 
>> Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election
>>  
>> Peace,
>> 
>> On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 2:04 AM Elad Cohen  wrote:
>> > [..] for example if spoofed DDoS amplification attacks are
>> > causing yearly damages of $100M per year in the world
>> > and these EOL equipment cost $50M in the world, it
>> > might be worth to replace them)
>> 
>> What's your degree in economics?  Is it an MBA, and if yes, then where?
>> 
>> Quite frankly, when it comes to your biography published on the
>> candidates page, we honestly don't even know if you're even succeeded
>> in primary school.  There's nothing telling about this.
>> 
>> What engineering experience do you have?
>> 
>> --
>> Töma

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Brielle]

What makes you think that companies are going to spend money and time on your 
“solution” when they’re having to be dragged kicking and screaming to fully 
enable IPv6 to every endpoint on their networks?  

Most places already OWN IPv6 capable routers/equipment, they’re just either 
being lazy in setting it up (“no reason to” excuse) or there’s not enough 
customer demand for them to take the time.

You don’t seem to have a firm grasp on WHY IPv6 adoption is taking so long. 

Sent from my iPad

> On May 13, 2020, at 5:15 PM, Elad Cohen  wrote:
> 
> 
> A degree in economics is not needed to know that if the damages of something 
> is causing x2 the amount that can be spent to avoid the damages - then half 
> of the amount should be spent.
> From: Töma Gavrichenkov 
> Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2020 2:09 AM
> To: Elad Cohen 
> Cc: Shane Ronan ; North American Network Operators' 
> Group 
> Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election
>  
> Peace,
> 
> On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 2:04 AM Elad Cohen  wrote:
> > [..] for example if spoofed DDoS amplification attacks are
> > causing yearly damages of $100M per year in the world
> > and these EOL equipment cost $50M in the world, it
> > might be worth to replace them)
> 
> What's your degree in economics?  Is it an MBA, and if yes, then where?
> 
> Quite frankly, when it comes to your biography published on the
> candidates page, we honestly don't even know if you're even succeeded
> in primary school.  There's nothing telling about this.
> 
> What engineering experience do you have?
> 
> --
> Töma

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Elad Cohen]

You start your posts with Peace but your posts are full of hate.

From: Töma Gavrichenkov 
Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2020 2:17 AM
To: Elad Cohen 
Cc: Shane Ronan ; North American Network Operators' 
Group 
Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

Peace,

On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 2:14 AM Elad Cohen  wrote:
> A degree in economics is not needed [..]

Which is the common thing to say by the ones who don't have it.

I think, dixi.

--
Töma

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Töma Gavrichenkov]

Peace,

On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 2:14 AM Elad Cohen  wrote:
> A degree in economics is not needed [..]

Which is the common thing to say by the ones who don't have it.

I think, dixi.

--
Töma

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Elad Cohen]

A degree in economics is not needed to know that if the damages of something is 
causing x2 the amount that can be spent to avoid the damages - then half of the 
amount should be spent.

From: Töma Gavrichenkov 
Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2020 2:09 AM
To: Elad Cohen 
Cc: Shane Ronan ; North American Network Operators' 
Group 
Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

Peace,

On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 2:04 AM Elad Cohen  wrote:
> [..] for example if spoofed DDoS amplification attacks are
> causing yearly damages of $100M per year in the world
> and these EOL equipment cost $50M in the world, it
> might be worth to replace them)

What's your degree in economics?  Is it an MBA, and if yes, then where?

Quite frankly, when it comes to your biography published on the
candidates page, we honestly don't even know if you're even succeeded
in primary school.  There's nothing telling about this.

What engineering experience do you have?

--
Töma

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Töma Gavrichenkov]

Peace,

On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 2:04 AM Elad Cohen  wrote:
> [..] for example if spoofed DDoS amplification attacks are
> causing yearly damages of $100M per year in the world
> and these EOL equipment cost $50M in the world, it
> might be worth to replace them)

What's your degree in economics?  Is it an MBA, and if yes, then where?

Quite frankly, when it comes to your biography published on the
candidates page, we honestly don't even know if you're even succeeded
in primary school.  There's nothing telling about this.

What engineering experience do you have?

--
Töma

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Elad Cohen]

Only active BGP routers will need to be updated, EOL active BGP routers can be 
reversed engineered and patched if they are popular enough (for example if 
spoofed DDoS amplification attacks are causing yearly damages of $100M per year 
in the world and these EOL equipment cost $50M in the world, it might be worth 
to replace them)

From: Shane Ronan 
Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2020 1:59 AM
To: Elad Cohen 
Cc: William Herrin ; North American Network Operators' Group 

Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

How do you solve for all the devices that don't have vendor support and will no 
longer be able to operate? Or are you suggesting we run a third Internet ( 
IPv4, IPv4+ and IPv6) further segregating the things that can communicate on 
the Internet.

On Wed, May 13, 2020, 6:48 PM Elad Cohen 
mailto:e...@netstyle.io>> wrote:
I don't have the experience that you have in routing equipment internals.

Regarding the performance issue in routers of complex security evaluations -  
maybe the following alternative will be fine:

The "source BGP router" will add the ASN of it (in clear text) to the end of ip 
packet data field (after two null bytes), the total length and checksum fields 
in the ip header will be recalculated.

Any next BGP router will check the last bits of the ip packet data which are 
after the last two null bytes for any ip packet - then if that part (from the 
two null bytes to the end) doesn't contain a null byte in it then these bytes 
are representing the first ASN, the BGP router will check that it peers with 
the specific ASN, if not the ip packet will be dropped. If yes - at the end of 
the ip packet data field a null byte will be added by the BGP router with the 
ASN (in cleartext) of that second BGP router, then the third BGP router (and so 
on) will check last ASN in the ip packet data (after the null byte) - if it 
peers with it - and if yes will replace that ASN with the current BGP router 
ASN and so on (so the end of the ip packet data field will include: two null 
bytes, the "source BGP router" ASN, a null byte, and then the ASN of the last 
BGP router), when the ip packet will reach to the "destination BGP router", the 
"destination BGP router" will check if the source address is announced through 
the first ASN (which is at listed at the ip packet data field) within a local 
table that it will have, and if yes then the part in the ip packet data field 
after the last two null bytes will be removed and the ip packet will be 
forwarded to the destination ip address.




From: William Herrin mailto:b...@herrin.us>>
Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 10:59 PM
To: Elad Cohen mailto:e...@netstyle.io>>
Cc: nanog@nanog.org<mailto:nanog@nanog.org> 
mailto:nanog@nanog.org>>
Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 12:18 PM Elad Cohen 
mailto:e...@netstyle.io>> wrote:
> Thank you for publishing it, please post also in your social accounts.
> https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/members-discuss/2020-April/003902.html

"At the source BGP router, for any ip packet with a source address
that is from the network of the source BGP router (lets call it
original ip packet) - the source BGP router will create a new ip
packet "

How long have you been around Elad? I expect such ideas from a junior
network engineer. It's part of the learning process.

For example, in this case it's dysfunctional for an intermediate
router that may be on one of several equal-cost paths to hold packets
awaiting their companions. Even if you found a way to embed the
information in the base packet, backbone-level routers simply don't
have the capacity to do complex security evaluations (e.g. encryption)
on individual packets. The cost of changing that would be phenomenal.

Regards,
Bill Herrin



>
>
> And SPAM:
>
>
> https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/members-discuss/2020-April/003778.html
>
>
> These should be submitted as RFCs, but on April 1st next year :)
>
>
> This could only be funnier if he wasn't dead serious and attempting to gain 
> power in RIPE right at this moment. Never in my life have I encountered such 
> an obvious and clear example of the Dunning-Kruger effect[1]. He's entrenched 
> right at the peak of "Mount Stupid"[2] (he appears committed to building a 
> tower there).
>
>
> Ref:
>
> [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
>
> [2] 
> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/46/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_Effect_01.svg
>
>
> --
> Regards,
>Terrence Koeman, PhD/MTh/BPsy
>  Darkness Reigns (Holding) B.V.
>
> Please quote relevant replies.
> Spelling errors courtesy of my 'smart'phone.
> ____________
> From: David Hubbard 
> mailto:

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Shane Ronan]

How do you solve for all the devices that don't have vendor support and
will no longer be able to operate? Or are you suggesting we run a third
Internet ( IPv4, IPv4+ and IPv6) further segregating the things that can
communicate on the Internet.

On Wed, May 13, 2020, 6:48 PM Elad Cohen  wrote:

> I don't have the experience that you have in routing equipment internals.
>
> Regarding the performance issue in routers of complex security evaluations
> -  maybe the following alternative will be fine:
>
> The "source BGP router" will add the ASN of it (in clear text) to the end
> of ip packet data field (after two null bytes), the total length and
> checksum fields in the ip header will be recalculated.
>
> Any next BGP router will check the last bits of the ip packet data which
> are after the last two null bytes for any ip packet - then if that part
> (from the two null bytes to the end) doesn't contain a null byte in it then
> these bytes are representing the first ASN, the BGP router will check that
> it peers with the specific ASN, if not the ip packet will be dropped. If
> yes - at the end of the ip packet data field a null byte will be added by
> the BGP router with the ASN (in cleartext) of that second BGP router, then
> the third BGP router (and so on) will check last ASN in the ip packet data
> (after the null byte) - if it peers with it - and if yes will replace that
> ASN with the current BGP router ASN and so on (so the end of the ip packet
> data field will include: two null bytes, the "source BGP router" ASN, a
> null byte, and then the ASN of the last BGP router), when the ip packet
> will reach to the "destination BGP router", the "destination BGP router"
> will check if the source address is announced through the first ASN (which
> is at listed at the ip packet data field) within a local table that it will
> have, and if yes then the part in the ip packet data field after the last
> two null bytes will be removed and the ip packet will be forwarded to the
> destination ip address.
>
>
>
> ------
> *From:* William Herrin 
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 13, 2020 10:59 PM
> *To:* Elad Cohen 
> *Cc:* nanog@nanog.org 
> *Subject:* Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election
>
> On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 12:18 PM Elad Cohen  wrote:
> > Thank you for publishing it, please post also in your social accounts.
> >
> https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/members-discuss/2020-April/003902.html
>
> "At the source BGP router, for any ip packet with a source address
> that is from the network of the source BGP router (lets call it
> original ip packet) - the source BGP router will create a new ip
> packet "
>
> How long have you been around Elad? I expect such ideas from a junior
> network engineer. It's part of the learning process.
>
> For example, in this case it's dysfunctional for an intermediate
> router that may be on one of several equal-cost paths to hold packets
> awaiting their companions. Even if you found a way to embed the
> information in the base packet, backbone-level routers simply don't
> have the capacity to do complex security evaluations (e.g. encryption)
> on individual packets. The cost of changing that would be phenomenal.
>
> Regards,
> Bill Herrin
>
>
>
> >
> >
> > And SPAM:
> >
> >
> >
> https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/members-discuss/2020-April/003778.html
> >
> >
> > These should be submitted as RFCs, but on April 1st next year :)
> >
> >
> > This could only be funnier if he wasn't dead serious and attempting to
> gain power in RIPE right at this moment. Never in my life have I
> encountered such an obvious and clear example of the Dunning-Kruger
> effect[1]. He's entrenched right at the peak of "Mount Stupid"[2] (he
> appears committed to building a tower there).
> >
> >
> > Ref:
> >
> > [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
> >
> > [2]
> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/46/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_Effect_01.svg
> >
> >
> > --
> > Regards,
> >Terrence Koeman, PhD/MTh/BPsy
> >  Darkness Reigns (Holding) B.V.
> >
> > Please quote relevant replies.
> > Spelling errors courtesy of my 'smart'phone.
> > 
> > From: David Hubbard 
> > Sent: Wednesday, 13 May 2020 19:19
> > To: nanog@nanog.org
> > Subject: [SPAM-MS] Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election
> >
> > LOL the IPv4+ thing was a pretty entertaining read.  You clearly don’t
> have even a basic understanding of the v4 packet structure, or that the
> oc

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Elad Cohen]

I don't have the experience that you have in routing equipment internals.

Regarding the performance issue in routers of complex security evaluations -  
maybe the following alternative will be fine:

The "source BGP router" will add the ASN of it (in clear text) to the end of ip 
packet data field (after two null bytes), the total length and checksum fields 
in the ip header will be recalculated.

Any next BGP router will check the last bits of the ip packet data which are 
after the last two null bytes for any ip packet - then if that part (from the 
two null bytes to the end) doesn't contain a null byte in it then these bytes 
are representing the first ASN, the BGP router will check that it peers with 
the specific ASN, if not the ip packet will be dropped. If yes - at the end of 
the ip packet data field a null byte will be added by the BGP router with the 
ASN (in cleartext) of that second BGP router, then the third BGP router (and so 
on) will check last ASN in the ip packet data (after the null byte) - if it 
peers with it - and if yes will replace that ASN with the current BGP router 
ASN and so on (so the end of the ip packet data field will include: two null 
bytes, the "source BGP router" ASN, a null byte, and then the ASN of the last 
BGP router), when the ip packet will reach to the "destination BGP router", the 
"destination BGP router" will check if the source address is announced through 
the first ASN (which is at listed at the ip packet data field) within a local 
table that it will have, and if yes then the part in the ip packet data field 
after the last two null bytes will be removed and the ip packet will be 
forwarded to the destination ip address.




From: William Herrin 
Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 10:59 PM
To: Elad Cohen 
Cc: nanog@nanog.org 
Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 12:18 PM Elad Cohen  wrote:
> Thank you for publishing it, please post also in your social accounts.
> https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/members-discuss/2020-April/003902.html

"At the source BGP router, for any ip packet with a source address
that is from the network of the source BGP router (lets call it
original ip packet) - the source BGP router will create a new ip
packet "

How long have you been around Elad? I expect such ideas from a junior
network engineer. It's part of the learning process.

For example, in this case it's dysfunctional for an intermediate
router that may be on one of several equal-cost paths to hold packets
awaiting their companions. Even if you found a way to embed the
information in the base packet, backbone-level routers simply don't
have the capacity to do complex security evaluations (e.g. encryption)
on individual packets. The cost of changing that would be phenomenal.

Regards,
Bill Herrin



>
>
> And SPAM:
>
>
> https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/members-discuss/2020-April/003778.html
>
>
> These should be submitted as RFCs, but on April 1st next year :)
>
>
> This could only be funnier if he wasn't dead serious and attempting to gain 
> power in RIPE right at this moment. Never in my life have I encountered such 
> an obvious and clear example of the Dunning-Kruger effect[1]. He's entrenched 
> right at the peak of "Mount Stupid"[2] (he appears committed to building a 
> tower there).
>
>
> Ref:
>
> [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
>
> [2] 
> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/46/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_Effect_01.svg
>
>
> --
> Regards,
>Terrence Koeman, PhD/MTh/BPsy
>  Darkness Reigns (Holding) B.V.
>
> Please quote relevant replies.
> Spelling errors courtesy of my 'smart'phone.
> ____
> From: David Hubbard 
> Sent: Wednesday, 13 May 2020 19:19
> To: nanog@nanog.org
> Subject: [SPAM-MS] Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election
>
> LOL the IPv4+ thing was a pretty entertaining read.  You clearly don’t have 
> even a basic understanding of the v4 packet structure, or that the octet 
> display concept is simply for human benefit.  IPv6 can be implemented with 
> ‘software updates’ too…
>
> From: NANOG  on behalf of Elad Cohen 
> 
> Date: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 at 9:47 AM
> To: "Ronald F. Guilmette" , "nanog@nanog.org" 
> 
> Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election
>
> Hello Everyone,
>
> My apology for not providing an official response to the first "The Ronald 
> Show" that took place here many months ago, I was out of hospital after full 
> anesthesia and it took me months to get back to myself.
>
> What was done towards me and what being done to me by Ronald is an 
> intentional personal attack against me and I will exp

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Ryan Hamel]

Elad,

It's those kinds of quick accusations that are damaging your reputation.
To boil your three ideas down to a sentence, they're throwing pixie dust on top 
of existing technologies, instead of embracing the current feature set that has 
existed for decades.
I mentioned BCP38 as a method around spoofed DDOS attacks on RIPE, and your 
IPv4+ idea is only keeping IPv4 around longer than it should.
IPv6 has been around for decades, and battle tested with major companies like 
Digital Equipment Corporation in the 90's. If you want your ideas to gain any 
sort of foothold, write the code demonstrating a proof of concept with a couple 
of Linux VMs, showing off the client and router changes, and release it for the 
community to play around with.
Actions speak louder than words. Just like RIPE votes, and listing your email 
address as spam.
Have a good one.
Ryan Hamel
On May 13 2020, at 2:39 pm, Christopher Morrow  wrote:
>
> On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 5:35 PM Elad Cohen  wrote:
> >
> > Another member of the illegal anonymous organization "The Spamhaus Project".
> wait, what?
> > 
> > From: Christopher Morrow 
> > Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2020 12:34 AM
> > To: Elad Cohen 
> > Cc: David Hubbard ; nanog@nanog.org 
> > 
> > Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election
> >
> > admins, can we can this worm can back and .. get back to work ?
> > kthxbi.
> >
> > On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 5:29 PM Elad Cohen  wrote:
> > >
> > > LOL so much heat and lies from IPv6 fans that don't want IPv4+ to be 
> > > deployed.
> > > 
> > > From: NANOG  on behalf of David Hubbard 
> > > 
> > > Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2020 12:10 AM
> > > To: nanog@nanog.org 
> > > Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election
> > >
> > >
> > > I suspect he’d want to slow adoption and push his frankestein IPv4 
> > > because any extension of IPv4 use makes the netblocks’s he’s obtained 
> > > questionable ‘ownership’ of more valuable, in theory.
> > >
> > >
> > > From: NANOG  on 
> > > behalf of Baldur Norddahl 
> > > Date: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 at 5:02 PM
> > > To: "nanog@nanog.org" 
> > > Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Akamai already has 15% peak IPv6 traffic:
> > >
> > >
> > > https://blogs.akamai.com/2020/02/at-21-tbps-reaching-new-levels-of-ipv6-traffic.html
> > >
> > >
> > > Some internet service providers may have more than half of their traffic 
> > > as IPv6.
> > >
> > >
> > > Some countries are now crossing more than 50% IPv6 availability:
> > >
> > >
> > > https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html
> > >
> > >
> > > Why do you think you can overtake the IPv6 train? Why would we want to 
> > > abandon the work already done?

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Töma Gavrichenkov]

Peace,

On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 12:53 AM Elad Cohen  wrote:
> Who you are voting?

Who me what?..  Alright,

At this point, given that I've reviewed all of your proposals — some
of those lengthy reviews were sent to members-discuss at ripe dot net
before (though it has never been the right place either to post your
"concepts" or to review them — IETF secdispatch is, as I've told you
numerous times before) — I'm going to toss a coin, which is a coin
without the option of you.

Sleep well.

--
Töma

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Elad Cohen]

Who you are voting?

From: Töma Gavrichenkov 
Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2020 12:51 AM
To: Elad Cohen 
Cc: Shane Ronan ; NANOG 
Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

Peace,

On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 12:48 AM Elad Cohen  wrote:
> "forgive and forget."
> Thank you for your vote.

Well, when I forget anything that doesn't make sense about your
proposals, there's nothing left to think of!

Ergo, not at all, because I'm clearly not voting for you :-)

--
Töma

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Töma Gavrichenkov]

Peace,

On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 12:48 AM Elad Cohen  wrote:
> "forgive and forget."
> Thank you for your vote.

Well, when I forget anything that doesn't make sense about your
proposals, there's nothing left to think of!

Ergo, not at all, because I'm clearly not voting for you :-)

--
Töma

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Neil Hanlon]

Respectfully:

How can something be deployed if it doesn't even exist?

I think we'd all be better off focusing on deploying real things with real 
implementations--you know, like IPv6... And not debating the merits of a 
protocol that doesn't exist except in.. Umm.. "theory".

And I'll save you some research. I'm not part of some ipv6 spamhaus illuminati 
group. Kinda wish I was--I've always wanted to be part of an exclusive club.

-Neil

On May 13, 2020, 17:31, at 17:31, Elad Cohen  wrote:
>LOL so much heat and lies from IPv6 fans that don't want IPv4+ to be
>deployed.
>
>From: NANOG  on behalf of David Hubbard
>
>Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2020 12:10 AM
>To: nanog@nanog.org 
>Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election
>
>
>I suspect he’d want to slow adoption and push his frankestein IPv4
>because any extension of IPv4 use makes the netblocks’s he’s obtained
>questionable ‘ownership’ of more valuable, in theory.
>
>
>
>From: NANOG  on
>behalf of Baldur Norddahl 
>Date: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 at 5:02 PM
>To: "nanog@nanog.org" 
>Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election
>
>
>
>Akamai already has 15% peak IPv6 traffic:
>
>
>
>https://blogs.akamai.com/2020/02/at-21-tbps-reaching-new-levels-of-ipv6-traffic.html
>
>
>
>Some internet service providers may have more than half of their
>traffic as IPv6.
>
>
>
>Some countries are now crossing more than 50% IPv6 availability:
>
>
>
>https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html
>
>
>
>Why do you think you can overtake the IPv6 train? Why would we want to
>abandon the work already done?

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Elad Cohen]

"forgive and forget."

Thank you for your vote.

From: Töma Gavrichenkov 
Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2020 12:45 AM
To: Shane Ronan 
Cc: Elad Cohen ; NANOG 
Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

Peace,

> On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 11:01 PM Shane Ronan  wrote:
>>  On Wed, May 13, 2020, 3:48 PM Elad Cohen  wrote:
>>> From: Töma Gavrichenkov 
>>> No, Elad.  It is *you* who needs to prove that your concept works.
>>
>> For you nothing will work.
>
> How do you expect to get elected when you are attacking
> the very people who will be voting in the election?

Thank you, but, well, I don't treat this as a real insult after all.
I've got some prior experience, and I've learned how to forgive and
forget.

10 years ago I was pursuing my PhD degree, and I've been teaching
bachelor wannabees on how to write Haskell code at the time.
I must say I've heard worse things from first year students about me then :-)

--
Töma

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Töma Gavrichenkov]

Peace,

> On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 11:01 PM Shane Ronan  wrote:
>>  On Wed, May 13, 2020, 3:48 PM Elad Cohen  wrote:
>>> From: Töma Gavrichenkov 
>>> No, Elad.  It is *you* who needs to prove that your concept works.
>>
>> For you nothing will work.
>
> How do you expect to get elected when you are attacking
> the very people who will be voting in the election?

Thank you, but, well, I don't treat this as a real insult after all.
I've got some prior experience, and I've learned how to forgive and
forget.

10 years ago I was pursuing my PhD degree, and I've been teaching
bachelor wannabees on how to write Haskell code at the time.
I must say I've heard worse things from first year students about me then :-)

--
Töma

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Christopher Morrow]

On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 5:35 PM Elad Cohen  wrote:
>
> Another member of the illegal anonymous organization "The Spamhaus Project".

wait, what?

> 
> From: Christopher Morrow 
> Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2020 12:34 AM
> To: Elad Cohen 
> Cc: David Hubbard ; nanog@nanog.org 
> 
> Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election
>
> admins, can we can this worm can back and .. get back to work ?
> kthxbi.
>
> On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 5:29 PM Elad Cohen  wrote:
> >
> > LOL so much heat and lies from IPv6 fans that don't want IPv4+ to be 
> > deployed.
> > 
> > From: NANOG  on behalf of David Hubbard 
> > 
> > Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2020 12:10 AM
> > To: nanog@nanog.org 
> > Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election
> >
> >
> > I suspect he’d want to slow adoption and push his frankestein IPv4 because 
> > any extension of IPv4 use makes the netblocks’s he’s obtained questionable 
> > ‘ownership’ of more valuable, in theory.
> >
> >
> >
> > From: NANOG  on 
> > behalf of Baldur Norddahl 
> > Date: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 at 5:02 PM
> > To: "nanog@nanog.org" 
> > Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election
> >
> >
> >
> > Akamai already has 15% peak IPv6 traffic:
> >
> >
> >
> > https://blogs.akamai.com/2020/02/at-21-tbps-reaching-new-levels-of-ipv6-traffic.html
> >
> >
> >
> > Some internet service providers may have more than half of their traffic as 
> > IPv6.
> >
> >
> >
> > Some countries are now crossing more than 50% IPv6 availability:
> >
> >
> >
> > https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html
> >
> >
> >
> > Why do you think you can overtake the IPv6 train? Why would we want to 
> > abandon the work already done?

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Elad Cohen]

I would like to apologize before the whole Nanog community, there are people 
which are very very obsessed to me and following me everywhere, such as Denys 
and Toma, you can see what Denys wrote in the following link:

https://imgur.com/a/PAdx9xz

I wish good luck to their candidate in these elections.



From: NANOG  on behalf of Denys Fedoryshchenko 

Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2020 12:18 AM
To: Töma Gavrichenkov 
Cc: NANOG 
Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

On 2020-05-13 22:53, Töma Gavrichenkov wrote:
> Peace,
>
> On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 10:43 PM Elad Cohen  wrote:
>> For you nothing will work.
>
> Is it a personal attack?
>
> IPv6 is working good for me so far ;-)
>
> --
> Töma
It works for Elad as well.
He is pushing others for IPv4+ suffering, while he is happily using
IPv6.
(Anybody can check his x-originating-ip header)
ROTFL

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Elad Cohen]

Another member of the illegal anonymous organization "The Spamhaus Project".

From: Christopher Morrow 
Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2020 12:34 AM
To: Elad Cohen 
Cc: David Hubbard ; nanog@nanog.org 

Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

admins, can we can this worm can back and .. get back to work ?
kthxbi.

On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 5:29 PM Elad Cohen  wrote:
>
> LOL so much heat and lies from IPv6 fans that don't want IPv4+ to be deployed.
> 
> From: NANOG  on behalf of David Hubbard 
> 
> Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2020 12:10 AM
> To: nanog@nanog.org 
> Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election
>
>
> I suspect he’d want to slow adoption and push his frankestein IPv4 because 
> any extension of IPv4 use makes the netblocks’s he’s obtained questionable 
> ‘ownership’ of more valuable, in theory.
>
>
>
> From: NANOG  on behalf 
> of Baldur Norddahl 
> Date: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 at 5:02 PM
> To: "nanog@nanog.org" 
> Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election
>
>
>
> Akamai already has 15% peak IPv6 traffic:
>
>
>
> https://blogs.akamai.com/2020/02/at-21-tbps-reaching-new-levels-of-ipv6-traffic.html
>
>
>
> Some internet service providers may have more than half of their traffic as 
> IPv6.
>
>
>
> Some countries are now crossing more than 50% IPv6 availability:
>
>
>
> https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html
>
>
>
> Why do you think you can overtake the IPv6 train? Why would we want to 
> abandon the work already done?

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Christopher Morrow]

admins, can we can this worm can back and .. get back to work ?
kthxbi.

On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 5:29 PM Elad Cohen  wrote:
>
> LOL so much heat and lies from IPv6 fans that don't want IPv4+ to be deployed.
> 
> From: NANOG  on behalf of David Hubbard 
> 
> Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2020 12:10 AM
> To: nanog@nanog.org 
> Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election
>
>
> I suspect he’d want to slow adoption and push his frankestein IPv4 because 
> any extension of IPv4 use makes the netblocks’s he’s obtained questionable 
> ‘ownership’ of more valuable, in theory.
>
>
>
> From: NANOG  on behalf 
> of Baldur Norddahl 
> Date: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 at 5:02 PM
> To: "nanog@nanog.org" 
> Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election
>
>
>
> Akamai already has 15% peak IPv6 traffic:
>
>
>
> https://blogs.akamai.com/2020/02/at-21-tbps-reaching-new-levels-of-ipv6-traffic.html
>
>
>
> Some internet service providers may have more than half of their traffic as 
> IPv6.
>
>
>
> Some countries are now crossing more than 50% IPv6 availability:
>
>
>
> https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html
>
>
>
> Why do you think you can overtake the IPv6 train? Why would we want to 
> abandon the work already done?

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Töma Gavrichenkov]

Peace,

On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 12:18 AM Denys Fedoryshchenko
 wrote:
> On 2020-05-13 22:53, Töma Gavrichenkov wrote:
> > On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 10:43 PM Elad Cohen  wrote:
> > > For you nothing will work.
> >
> > IPv6 is working good for me so far ;-)
>
> It works for Elad as well.
> He is pushing others for IPv4+ suffering, while he is
> happily using IPv6.
> (Anybody can check his x-originating-ip header)
> ROTFL

Wow!!

Kudos for noticing that.  This is hilarious :-)

--
Töma

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Elad Cohen]

LOL so much heat and lies from IPv6 fans that don't want IPv4+ to be deployed.

From: NANOG  on behalf of David Hubbard 

Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2020 12:10 AM
To: nanog@nanog.org 
Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election


I suspect he’d want to slow adoption and push his frankestein IPv4 because any 
extension of IPv4 use makes the netblocks’s he’s obtained questionable 
‘ownership’ of more valuable, in theory.



From: NANOG  on behalf 
of Baldur Norddahl 
Date: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 at 5:02 PM
To: "nanog@nanog.org" 
Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election



Akamai already has 15% peak IPv6 traffic:



https://blogs.akamai.com/2020/02/at-21-tbps-reaching-new-levels-of-ipv6-traffic.html



Some internet service providers may have more than half of their traffic as 
IPv6.



Some countries are now crossing more than 50% IPv6 availability:



https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html



Why do you think you can overtake the IPv6 train? Why would we want to abandon 
the work already done?

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Denys Fedoryshchenko]

On 2020-05-13 22:53, Töma Gavrichenkov wrote:

Peace,

On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 10:43 PM Elad Cohen  wrote:

For you nothing will work.


Is it a personal attack?

IPv6 is working good for me so far ;-)

--
Töma

It works for Elad as well.
He is pushing others for IPv4+ suffering, while he is happily using 
IPv6.

(Anybody can check his x-originating-ip header)
ROTFL

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Owen DeLong]

> On May 13, 2020, at 12:36 , Elad Cohen  wrote:
> 
> 
> Do you realise that this means you're requiring changing *every* 
> socket-speaking application in the world?
> 
> Every internet host that will want to speak IPv4+ , will have an update (for 
> example through the operating systems automatic updates mechanisms)

Uh… You left out Every Application on Every Host.

How do all of those applications get updated (some fo which are in-house custom 
code whose maintainers long since retired).

If you’re recoding all the applications, that’s pretty much the last hurdle 
left at this point for IPv6, so what’s the advantage of IPv4+ at this point? 
None whatsoever.

> 
> 
> 
> It's taken us decades to get applications to use the new struct to support 
> IPv6+IPv4, resetting the timer back to 0 and starting over does not help 
> deployment. It just kicks it another 20 years down the line.
> 
> I wrote about the usage of a roundtable in order to implement everything fast 
> (the roundtable will include one representative from each of the operating 
> system vendors, one representative from each of the routing equipment 
> manufacturers and one representative from each of the 5 RIR's), if I will be 
> elected to RIPE board I will do everything in my power so this roundtable 
> will be formed fast and that the needed updates will be created fast. Each 
> party in the roundtable will receive an amount of free IPv4 addresses from 
> the new IPv4+ pool, and each ASN will also receive for example a /21 , 
> home-routers and home-modems will not be needed to be updated and they will 
> support IPv4+.
> 
> 
> 
> You're just inventing yet another incompatible standard and you have to 
> touch everything, DHCP, DNS all applications etc.
> 
> There is an adjustment to IPv4+ that the format of addresses will not be 
> [0-655365].[0-655365]v4 - but it will be [256-511].[0-255].[0-255].[0-255]
> So IPv4+ addresses will be in the format of IPv4 addresses - it will end-user 
> adoption of IPv4+ easier and also integration in the applicative layer easier 
> (as application developers will only need to set that the first number can be 
> higher instead to support a new format of [0-655365].[0-655365]v4 )

So you want to retain all the need for NAT, continue to make end-users 
second-class citizens, avoid most of the gains and improvements of IPv6, while 
reducing the workload involved in adoption by (oh, wait, you’re increasing the 
workload required)…

Where’s the win in this, exactly?

Owen

> 
> 
> From: Mikael Abrahamsson 
> Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 10:22 PM
> To: Elad Cohen 
> Cc: Brielle ; NANOG list 
> Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election
>  
> On Wed, 13 May 2020, Elad Cohen wrote:
> 
> > LOL funny seeing you changing your mind by 180 degrees when someone you 
> > know in the community writing to you the exact same thing.
> 
> "In addition, the sockets API should be extended to support IPxl with a 
> new socket domain PF_IPXL which is identical to PF_INET in every respect 
> save that the IP addresses are 8 bytes long instead of 4."
> 
> Do you realise that this means you're requiring changing *every* 
> socket-speaking application in the world?
> 
> It's taken us decades to get applications to use the new struct to support 
> IPv6+IPv4, resetting the timer back to 0 and starting over does not help 
> deployment. It just kicks it another 20 years down the line.
> 
> You're just inventing yet another incompatible standard and you have to 
> touch everything, DHCP, DNS all applications etc.
> 
> -- 
> Mikael Abrahamssonemail: swm...@swm.pp.se

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Elad Cohen]

I understand the following sentence:

https://icannwiki.org/Owen_DeLong

"Owen has a special interest in policy as it relates to IPv4 exhaustion and 
IPv6 deployment."

From: Owen DeLong 
Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2020 12:03 AM
To: Elad Cohen 
Cc: David Hubbard ; nanog@nanog.org 

Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

More accurately, you clearly don’t understand exactly how IPv4+ doesn’t work.

Owen


On May 13, 2020, at 10:30 , Elad Cohen 
mailto:e...@netstyle.io>> wrote:

LOL at people that are against anything besides IPv6 when it will take much 
much more time until IPv6 will be fully deployed. You clearly didn't understand 
how IPv4+ works.

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[David Hubbard]

I suspect he’d want to slow adoption and push his frankestein IPv4 because any 
extension of IPv4 use makes the netblocks’s he’s obtained questionable 
‘ownership’ of more valuable, in theory.

From: NANOG  on behalf 
of Baldur Norddahl 
Date: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 at 5:02 PM
To: "nanog@nanog.org" 
Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

Akamai already has 15% peak IPv6 traffic:

https://blogs.akamai.com/2020/02/at-21-tbps-reaching-new-levels-of-ipv6-traffic.html

Some internet service providers may have more than half of their traffic as 
IPv6.

Some countries are now crossing more than 50% IPv6 availability:

https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html

Why do you think you can overtake the IPv6 train? Why would we want to abandon 
the work already done?

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Owen DeLong]

> "The Spamhaus Project" is an illegal anonymous organization according to 
> their own words in their own following presentation:
> 
> https://www.scribd.com/document/445894312/Spamhaus-Illegal-Private-Data-Violation
>  
> 
This is the second time I’ve seen you make this claim in public. I see nothing 
in the slide deck you linked which claims they are illegal.

Nor does it say that they are anonymous, in fact, the CIO’s name (Richard D G 
Cox) is prominently displayed on the title slide.

I seriously doubt that if they were truly the criminals you say they are, they 
would be permitted to name the FBI as a partner on their website: 
https://www.spamhaus.org/organization/ 

I also sincerely doubt that if they were criminals, as you state, that they 
would be admitted as members, let alone receive awards from the National 
Cber-Forensics and Training Alliance.

Indeed, ISPA has also presented them with an “Internet Hero Award”.

Frankly, when it comes to the issues of criminality, I think Spamhaus has 
significantly more credibility than you do.

> They wrote in it that they receive on a regular basis - massive amount of 
> illegaly-obtained privacy data from their contacts in many internet companies 
> and internet organizations - and then they share it in illegal way (without 
> any warrant) with Law Enforcement Agencies - this is the reason that Law 
> Enforcement Agencies are doing nothing regarding the illegal anonymous 
> organization "The Spamhaus Project”.

That’s an awfully strange interpretation of (presumably):

“Spamhaus holds a lot of information provided in confidence by industry players 
— on the understanding that it can be made available to LEAs where needed.”

> Ronald Guilmette is the front person of the illegal anonymous organization 
> "The Spamhaus Project”.

Uh, sure, and I’m the Prince of Whales.

> 
> and that said legal counsel has then
> proceeded to threaten various officials of the City of Cape Town,
> South Africa with possible legal action if they do not relinquish
> to him their rights in and title to the 165.25.0.0/16 block
> 
> This is a complete lie, in order to shame CoCT I will not share their 
> internal correspondences. Anyone interested to know more information can 
> email me directly.

At this point, the best you’ve got on this list is an a-said/b-said with no 
public evidence on either side. In such a case, it boils down to credibility 
and frankly, IMHO, yours is lacking.

> 
> "I am assured that at no time did the City of Cape Town ever sell, trade, or 
> barter away their rights to this valuable IPv4 block"
> 
> Ronald is "assured" exactly as he is "assured" that all Dutch people are 
> criminals and all Colombian network oeprators are criminals and all Chicago 
> citizens are criminals according to his statements in the following links:
> https://imgur.com/AcmgwEX 
> https://imgur.com/WUZvdNJ 
> https://imgur.com/a/Rzrbxkz 
Quote 1 might be bad style on RFG’s part, but style and eloquence have never 
been his strong suits. OTOH, he is, in my experience, a meticulous researcher 
and brutally honest. I also note that you have carefully resorted to an image 
of a plain text blob with no header matter and no way to authenticate or verify 
the source or validate the attribution as factual. I don’t doubt that it is an 
actual RFG quote (at least it sounds like something he’d say), but why not link 
to the actual list archive where you got it? Are you attempting to hide the 
rest of the thread from closer scrutiny while cherry-picking quotes you hope 
support your narrative?
FWIW: Cogent sales reps who actually respond 
 is the 
original thread from the NANOG archives.

Qoute 2 strikes me as an innocent snark said in jest.
FWIW: Colombia Network Operators Group 
 is the 
original thread from the NANOG archives.

Quote 3 is the most amusing in that the person all but states that you, Mr. 
Cohen, are acting guilty of the allegations made by RFG and that the original 
poster thinks you both have things to answer for.
FWIW: Quoted thread here: Prominent horse racing identities (was Re: 
Elad Cohen) 

> Ronald was called an antisemitic and a racist person here on Nanog in the 
> following two links, by people which are not related to me:
> https://imgur.com/AQCmZlk 
> https://imgur.com/a/Rzrbxkz 
Ron has UI problems, to be sure. Not the least of which, he doesn’t filter and 
doesn’t put any effort into political correctness. He definitely lacks polish 
and a certain 

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Owen DeLong]

More accurately, you clearly don’t understand exactly how IPv4+ doesn’t work.

Owen


> On May 13, 2020, at 10:30 , Elad Cohen  wrote:
> 
> LOL at people that are against anything besides IPv6 when it will take much 
> much more time until IPv6 will be fully deployed. You clearly didn't 
> understand how IPv4+ works.
> 

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Michael Thomas]

Wait, is there supposed to be some sort of conspiracy? I'll bet that 
Steve Deering couldn't be happier being as far away from this as 
possible on some deserted island off the coast of BC.


Mike

On 5/13/20 1:46 PM, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via NANOG wrote:


I’m a very transparent guy, nothing to hide about how much I do for 
the community, including voluntary work for many folks that need and 
want to implement IPv6.


Probably that explains it!

El 13/5/20 22:32, "Elad Cohen" <mailto:e...@netstyle.io>> escribió:


Regards,

Jordi
"The IPv6 Company"



*From:*NANOG  on behalf of JORDI PALET 
MARTINEZ via NANOG 

*Sent:* Wednesday, May 13, 2020 11:17 PM
*To:* NANOG list 
*Subject:* Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

It is curious how many times we have heard that, not only heard in 
NANOG and other NOGs, but also in IETF, even debated in long thread 
with several IDs, and for some strange reason, we all missed that or 
maybe because nobody got the running code to demonstrate his/her point 
in a realistic way?


Instead, IPv6 is working for everyone that invest just a little bit of 
effort, in the only credible long-term solution.


Of course, like in any aspect of our life, always some people will 
believe that they can keep using legacy tools, I still see some people 
using abacus instead of the “calc.app”, it is nice, just for fun, but 
is not smart neither productive.


It is matter of what the world needs.

Regards,

Jordi

@jordipalet

El 13/5/20 21:58, "NANOG en nombre de Elad Cohen" 
mailto:nanog-boun...@nanog.org> en nombre de 
e...@netstyle.io <mailto:e...@netstyle.io>> escribió:


Your home ISP will support IPv4+ packets exactly as it is now, because 
IPv4+ is based on the exact current IPv4 packet format. With the 
needed roundtable - IPv4+ will be deployed in the whole internet and fast.




*From:*NANOG  on behalf of David Hubbard 


*Sent:* Wednesday, May 13, 2020 10:44 PM
*To:* NANOG list 
*Subject:* Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

It just keeps getting dumber by the minute.  My home ISP hasn’t even 
updated firmware to one that supports v6, but yeah, they’re surely 
going to update to your Frankenstein ipv4 because you’re going to give 
them a taste of addresses from the nightmare pool that will reach even 
less of the internet than v6.


*From: *NANOG  on behalf of Elad Cohen 


*Date: *Wednesday, May 13, 2020 at 3:41 PM
*To: *Mikael Abrahamsson 
*Cc: *NANOG list 
*Subject: *Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election



/Do you realise that this means you're requiring changing *every*
socket-speaking application in the world?/



Every internet host that will want to speak IPv4+ , will have an 
update (for example through the operating systems automatic updates 
mechanisms)




/It's taken us decades to get applications to use the new struct to 
support

IPv6+IPv4, resetting the timer back to 0 and starting over does not help
deployment. It just kicks it another 20 years down the line./



I wrote about the usage of a roundtable in order to implement 
everything fast (the roundtable will include one representative from 
each of the operating system vendors, one representative from each of 
the routing equipment manufacturers and one representative from each 
of the 5 RIR's), if I will be elected to RIPE board I will do 
everything in my power so this roundtable will be formed fast and that 
the needed updates will be created fast. Each party in the roundtable 
will receive an amount of free IPv4 addresses from the new IPv4+ pool, 
and each ASN will also receive for example a /21 , home-routers and 
home-modems will not be needed to be updated and they will support IPv4+.




/You're just inventing yet another incompatible standard and you have to
touch everything, DHCP, DNS all applications etc./



There is an adjustment to IPv4+ that the format of addresses will not 
be [0-655365].[0-655365]v4 - but it will be 
[256-511].[0-255].[0-255].[0-255]


So IPv4+ addresses will be in the format of IPv4 addresses - it will 
end-user adoption of IPv4+ easier and also integration in the 
applicative layer easier (as application developers will only need to 
set that the first number can be higher instead to support a new 
format of [0-655365].[0-655365]v4 )




*From:*Mikael Abrahamsson 
*Sent:* Wednesday, May 13, 2020 10:22 PM
*To:* Elad Cohen 
*Cc:* Brielle ; NANOG list 
*Subject:* Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

On Wed, 13 May 2020, Elad Cohen wrote:

> LOL funny seeing you changing your mind by 180 degrees when someone you
> know in the community writing to you the exact same thing.

"In addition, the sockets API should be extended to support IPxl with a
new socket domain PF_IPXL w

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Jon Lewis]

On Wed, 13 May 2020, Elad Cohen wrote:



Do you realise that this means you're requiring changing *every*
socket-speaking application in the world?

Every internet host that will want to speak IPv4+ , will have an update (for 
example through the operating systems automatic updates mechanisms)


And every piece of software that works with / supports IPv4.

When you've convinced Cisco, Juniper, Arista, and a few other router 
vendors to implement, and have submitted patches for the Linux kernel and 
userspace to implement IPv4+ (good luck with all that...and expect to be 
met with "Can we have some of what you've been smoking?"), then you can 
start pushing your next gen IP concepts.  Until then, it's a total 
non-starter.


If this person can't be removed from the list for wasting everyone's time, 
I suggest filing him right under Jim Flemming.


:0
* ^From:.*(jfleming(@anet\.com|unety\.net)|ipv6nog@gmail\.com)
/dev/null

:0
* (^TO|^From:).*
/dev/null

I'm out of this thread...I've already seen the above rule do its job.


--
 Jon Lewis, MCP :)   |  I route
 StackPath, Sr. Neteng   |  therefore you are
_ http://www.lewis.org/~jlewis/pgp for PGP public key_

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Baldur Norddahl]

Akamai already has 15% peak IPv6 traffic:

https://blogs.akamai.com/2020/02/at-21-tbps-reaching-new-levels-of-ipv6-traffic.html

Some internet service providers may have more than half of their traffic as
IPv6.

Some countries are now crossing more than 50% IPv6 availability:

https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html

Why do you think you can overtake the IPv6 train? Why would we want to
abandon the work already done?

ons. 13. maj 2020 20.27 skrev Elad Cohen :

> We will take your path, lets wait 20 years for IPv6 to be fully deployed.
> --
> *From:* NANOG  on behalf of Brielle <
> br...@2mbit.com>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 13, 2020 9:16 PM
> *To:* NANOG list 
> *Subject:* Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election
>
> On 5/13/2020 12:09 PM, Elad Cohen wrote:
> > -
> > /There's a fundamental lack of understanding from people on why you can't
> > just 'bolt on' more addresses to IPv4.  Data structures in memory,
> > software APIs and syscalls, hex notations, subnetting, route
> > determination and propigation with internet routing protocols like BGP,
> > hardware CAM, among many other things./
> > -
> > All of it will be resolved with a software update, and BGP will be
> > updated to support IPv4+ with backward compatibility.
>
>
> You mean what everyone's already implemented with IPv6?  A complete
> overhaul/replacement for IPv4, with all the changes already done and
> fully supported in most major software packages, servers, routers, and
> switches?
>
> Enlighten me on why you are so obsessed with re-implementing IPv6 as IPv4+?
>
>
> -
> > /I'm not here to do your homework. Its not my fault you lack the
> > understanding as to why people are openly mocking you here on your
> > 'inventions'./
> > -
> > Nobody is "mocking" besides IPv6 fans that are against any solution
> > until IPv6 will be fully deployed which can take more 20 years from now.
>
>
> Yes, because the all powerful IPv6 cartel is working with the Lumber
> Cartel to stifle your 'inventions' for 'solving' the world's IP and spam
> problems.
>
>
> --
> Brielle Bruns
> The Summit Open Source Development Group
> http://www.sosdg.org/ http://www.ahbl.org
>

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Elad Cohen]

I'll vote for you!

From: NANOG  on behalf of JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via 
NANOG 
Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 11:46 PM
To: NANOG list 
Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election


I’m a very transparent guy, nothing to hide about how much I do for the 
community, including voluntary work for many folks that need and want to 
implement IPv6.



Probably that explains it!



El 13/5/20 22:32, "Elad Cohen" mailto:e...@netstyle.io>> 
escribió:



Regards,

Jordi
"The IPv6 Company"



From: NANOG  on behalf of JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via 
NANOG 
Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 11:17 PM
To: NANOG list 
Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election



It is curious how many times we have heard that, not only heard in NANOG and 
other NOGs, but also in IETF, even debated in long thread with several IDs, and 
for some strange reason, we all missed that or maybe because nobody got the 
running code to demonstrate his/her point in a realistic way?



Instead, IPv6 is working for everyone that invest just a little bit of effort, 
in the only credible long-term solution.



Of course, like in any aspect of our life, always some people will believe that 
they can keep using legacy tools, I still see some people using abacus instead 
of the “calc.app”, it is nice, just for fun, but is not smart neither 
productive.



It is matter of what the world needs.



Regards,

Jordi

@jordipalet







El 13/5/20 21:58, "NANOG en nombre de Elad Cohen" 
mailto:nanog-boun...@nanog.org> en nombre de 
e...@netstyle.io<mailto:e...@netstyle.io>> escribió:



Your home ISP will support IPv4+ packets exactly as it is now, because IPv4+ is 
based on the exact current IPv4 packet format. With the needed roundtable - 
IPv4+ will be deployed in the whole internet and fast.



From: NANOG  on behalf of David Hubbard 

Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 10:44 PM
To: NANOG list 
Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election



It just keeps getting dumber by the minute.  My home ISP hasn’t even updated 
firmware to one that supports v6, but yeah, they’re surely going to update to 
your Frankenstein ipv4 because you’re going to give them a taste of addresses 
from the nightmare pool that will reach even less of the internet than v6.



From: NANOG  on behalf of Elad Cohen 
Date: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 at 3:41 PM
To: Mikael Abrahamsson 
Cc: NANOG list 
Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election





Do you realise that this means you're requiring changing *every*
socket-speaking application in the world?



Every internet host that will want to speak IPv4+ , will have an update (for 
example through the operating systems automatic updates mechanisms)







It's taken us decades to get applications to use the new struct to support
IPv6+IPv4, resetting the timer back to 0 and starting over does not help
deployment. It just kicks it another 20 years down the line.



I wrote about the usage of a roundtable in order to implement everything fast 
(the roundtable will include one representative from each of the operating 
system vendors, one representative from each of the routing equipment 
manufacturers and one representative from each of the 5 RIR's), if I will be 
elected to RIPE board I will do everything in my power so this roundtable will 
be formed fast and that the needed updates will be created fast. Each party in 
the roundtable will receive an amount of free IPv4 addresses from the new IPv4+ 
pool, and each ASN will also receive for example a /21 , home-routers and 
home-modems will not be needed to be updated and they will support IPv4+.







You're just inventing yet another incompatible standard and you have to
touch everything, DHCP, DNS all applications etc.



There is an adjustment to IPv4+ that the format of addresses will not be 
[0-655365].[0-655365]v4 - but it will be [256-511].[0-255].[0-255].[0-255]

So IPv4+ addresses will be in the format of IPv4 addresses - it will end-user 
adoption of IPv4+ easier and also integration in the applicative layer easier 
(as application developers will only need to set that the first number can be 
higher instead to support a new format of [0-655365].[0-655365]v4 )







From: Mikael Abrahamsson 
Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 10:22 PM
To: Elad Cohen 
Cc: Brielle ; NANOG list 
Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election



On Wed, 13 May 2020, Elad Cohen wrote:

> LOL funny seeing you changing your mind by 180 degrees when someone you
> know in the community writing to you the exact same thing.

"In addition, the sockets API should be extended to support IPxl with a
new socket domain PF_IPXL which is identical to PF_INET in every respect
save that the IP addresses are 8 bytes long instead of 4."

Do you realise that this means you're requiring changing *every*
socket-

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via NANOG]

I’m a very transparent guy, nothing to hide about how much I do for the 
community, including voluntary work for many folks that need and want to 
implement IPv6.

 

Probably that explains it!

 

El 13/5/20 22:32, "Elad Cohen"  escribió:

 

Regards,

Jordi
"The IPv6 Company"

From: NANOG  on behalf of JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via 
NANOG 
Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 11:17 PM
To: NANOG list 
Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election 

 

It is curious how many times we have heard that, not only heard in NANOG and 
other NOGs, but also in IETF, even debated in long thread with several IDs, and 
for some strange reason, we all missed that or maybe because nobody got the 
running code to demonstrate his/her point in a realistic way?

 

Instead, IPv6 is working for everyone that invest just a little bit of effort, 
in the only credible long-term solution.

 

Of course, like in any aspect of our life, always some people will believe that 
they can keep using legacy tools, I still see some people using abacus instead 
of the “calc.app”, it is nice, just for fun, but is not smart neither 
productive.

 

It is matter of what the world needs.

 

Regards,

Jordi

@jordipalet

 

 

 

El 13/5/20 21:58, "NANOG en nombre de Elad Cohen"  escribió:

 

Your home ISP will support IPv4+ packets exactly as it is now, because IPv4+ is 
based on the exact current IPv4 packet format. With the needed roundtable - 
IPv4+ will be deployed in the whole internet and fast.

From: NANOG  on behalf of David Hubbard 

Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 10:44 PM
To: NANOG list 
Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election 

 

It just keeps getting dumber by the minute.  My home ISP hasn’t even updated 
firmware to one that supports v6, but yeah, they’re surely going to update to 
your Frankenstein ipv4 because you’re going to give them a taste of addresses 
from the nightmare pool that will reach even less of the internet than v6.

 

From: NANOG  on behalf of Elad Cohen 
Date: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 at 3:41 PM
To: Mikael Abrahamsson 
Cc: NANOG list 
Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

 



Do you realise that this means you're requiring changing *every* 
socket-speaking application in the world?



Every internet host that will want to speak IPv4+ , will have an update (for 
example through the operating systems automatic updates mechanisms)

 

 



It's taken us decades to get applications to use the new struct to support 
IPv6+IPv4, resetting the timer back to 0 and starting over does not help 
deployment. It just kicks it another 20 years down the line.



I wrote about the usage of a roundtable in order to implement everything fast 
(the roundtable will include one representative from each of the operating 
system vendors, one representative from each of the routing equipment 
manufacturers and one representative from each of the 5 RIR's), if I will be 
elected to RIPE board I will do everything in my power so this roundtable will 
be formed fast and that the needed updates will be created fast. Each party in 
the roundtable will receive an amount of free IPv4 addresses from the new IPv4+ 
pool, and each ASN will also receive for example a /21 , home-routers and 
home-modems will not be needed to be updated and they will support IPv4+.

 

 



You're just inventing yet another incompatible standard and you have to 
touch everything, DHCP, DNS all applications etc.



There is an adjustment to IPv4+ that the format of addresses will not be 
[0-655365].[0-655365]v4 - but it will be [256-511].[0-255].[0-255].[0-255]

So IPv4+ addresses will be in the format of IPv4 addresses - it will end-user 
adoption of IPv4+ easier and also integration in the applicative layer easier 
(as application developers will only need to set that the first number can be 
higher instead to support a new format of [0-655365].[0-655365]v4 )

 

 

From: Mikael Abrahamsson 
Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 10:22 PM
To: Elad Cohen 
Cc: Brielle ; NANOG list 
Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election 

 

On Wed, 13 May 2020, Elad Cohen wrote:

> LOL funny seeing you changing your mind by 180 degrees when someone you 
> know in the community writing to you the exact same thing.

"In addition, the sockets API should be extended to support IPxl with a 
new socket domain PF_IPXL which is identical to PF_INET in every respect 
save that the IP addresses are 8 bytes long instead of 4."

Do you realise that this means you're requiring changing *every* 
socket-speaking application in the world?

It's taken us decades to get applications to use the new struct to support 
IPv6+IPv4, resetting the timer back to 0 and starting over does not help 
deployment. It just kicks it another 20 years down the line.

You're just inventing yet another incompatible standard and you have to 
touch everything, DHCP, DNS all applications etc.

-- 

RE: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Terrence Koeman]

I think that you're in such a hurry to reply to emails that you forget to 
actually read what's written. It's that, or the whole concept of a thought 
experiment went right over your head. Wow!

-- 
Regards,
   Terrence Koeman, PhD/MTh/BPsy
 Darkness Reigns (Holding) B.V.

Please quote relevant replies.

> -Original Message-
> From: Elad Cohen 
> Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 10:30 PM
> To: Terrence Koeman ; nanog@nanog.org
> Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election
> 
> "absolute king" - I'm only trying to be elected to RIPE board, what does
> this strange person wants.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: Terrence Koeman
> Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 11:28 PM
> To: Elad Cohen; nanog@nanog.org
> Subject: RE: RIPE NCC Executive Board election
> 
> Yes, are you having trouble understanding that? Even if we suppose a world
> where you are the absolute king of all RIRs plus IANA *and* majority
> shareholder of all commercial entities you have envisioned for your round
> table, it would still not work.
> 
> I'd pay to see that unfold in a VR simulation though, A+ entertainment :D
> 
> --
> Regards,
>Terrence Koeman, PhD/MTh/BPsy
>  Darkness Reigns (Holding) B.V.
> 
> Please quote relevant replies.
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Elad Cohen 
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 10:01 PM
> > To: Terrence Koeman ; nanog@nanog.org
> > Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election
> >
> > "actually be implemented, even in theory"
> >
> >
> >
> > ________
> >
> > From: Terrence Koeman
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 10:58 PM
> > To: Elad Cohen; David Hubbard; nanog@nanog.org
> > Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election
> >
> >
> > You're welcome :) And don't worry I already have posted it on social
> > media.
> >
> >
> > I don't believe there is any danger of your "solutions" being mistaken
> for
> > something that can actually be implemented, even in theory.
> >
> >
> > If there was we would have larger issues than just the resource drain
> and
> > time-wasting of trying to forcefully implement comically unrealistic
> > "solutions". None of which are abated by suppression of your "solutions"
> > or discussion of them.
> >
> >
> > In fact, if people that believe you're a genius and that your
> "solutions"
> > merit implementation exist in positions where they can actually effect
> an
> > attempt to implement them (causing certain resource drain and time-
> > wasting), it's best we know about it sooner rather than later.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Regards,
> >Terrence Koeman, PhD/MTh/BPsy
> >  Darkness Reigns (Holding) B.V.
> >
> > Please quote relevant replies.
> > Spelling errors courtesy of my 'smart'phone.
> >
> > 
> >
> > From: Elad Cohen 
> > Sent: Wednesday, 13 May 2020 21:16
> > To: Terrence Koeman; David Hubbard; nanog@nanog.org
> > Subject: [SPAM-MS] Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election
> >
> >
> >
> >Thank you for publishing it, please post also in your social
> > accounts.
> >
> >
> >
> >From: NANOG on behalf of Terrence Koeman
> >Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 9:54 PM
> >To: David Hubbard; nanog@nanog.org
> >Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election
> >
> >
> >If you thought IPv4+ was entertaining, check out his "solution"
> to
> > packet spoofing:
> >
> >
> >https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/members-discuss/2020-
> <https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/members-discuss/2020->
> > April/003902.html
> >
> >
> >And SPAM:
> >
> >
> >https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/members-discuss/2020-
> <https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/members-discuss/2020->
> > April/003778.html
> >
> >
> >These should be submitted as RFCs, but on April 1st next year :)
> >
> >
> >This could only be funnier if he wasn't dead serious and
> attempting
> > to gain power in RIPE right at this moment. Never in my life have I
> > encountered such an obvious and clear example of the Dunning-Kruger
> > effect[1]. He's entrenched right at the peak of "Mount Stupid"[2] (he
> > appears committed to building a tower there).
> >

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Elad Cohen]

Regards,

Jordi
"The IPv6 Company"


From: NANOG  on behalf of JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via 
NANOG 
Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 11:17 PM
To: NANOG list 
Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election


It is curious how many times we have heard that, not only heard in NANOG and 
other NOGs, but also in IETF, even debated in long thread with several IDs, and 
for some strange reason, we all missed that or maybe because nobody got the 
running code to demonstrate his/her point in a realistic way?



Instead, IPv6 is working for everyone that invest just a little bit of effort, 
in the only credible long-term solution.



Of course, like in any aspect of our life, always some people will believe that 
they can keep using legacy tools, I still see some people using abacus instead 
of the “calc.app”, it is nice, just for fun, but is not smart neither 
productive.



It is matter of what the world needs.



Regards,

Jordi

@jordipalet







El 13/5/20 21:58, "NANOG en nombre de Elad Cohen" 
mailto:nanog-boun...@nanog.org> en nombre de 
e...@netstyle.io<mailto:e...@netstyle.io>> escribió:



Your home ISP will support IPv4+ packets exactly as it is now, because IPv4+ is 
based on the exact current IPv4 packet format. With the needed roundtable - 
IPv4+ will be deployed in the whole internet and fast.



From: NANOG  on behalf of David Hubbard 

Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 10:44 PM
To: NANOG list 
Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election



It just keeps getting dumber by the minute.  My home ISP hasn’t even updated 
firmware to one that supports v6, but yeah, they’re surely going to update to 
your Frankenstein ipv4 because you’re going to give them a taste of addresses 
from the nightmare pool that will reach even less of the internet than v6.



From: NANOG  on behalf of Elad Cohen 
Date: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 at 3:41 PM
To: Mikael Abrahamsson 
Cc: NANOG list 
Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election





Do you realise that this means you're requiring changing *every*
socket-speaking application in the world?



Every internet host that will want to speak IPv4+ , will have an update (for 
example through the operating systems automatic updates mechanisms)







It's taken us decades to get applications to use the new struct to support
IPv6+IPv4, resetting the timer back to 0 and starting over does not help
deployment. It just kicks it another 20 years down the line.



I wrote about the usage of a roundtable in order to implement everything fast 
(the roundtable will include one representative from each of the operating 
system vendors, one representative from each of the routing equipment 
manufacturers and one representative from each of the 5 RIR's), if I will be 
elected to RIPE board I will do everything in my power so this roundtable will 
be formed fast and that the needed updates will be created fast. Each party in 
the roundtable will receive an amount of free IPv4 addresses from the new IPv4+ 
pool, and each ASN will also receive for example a /21 , home-routers and 
home-modems will not be needed to be updated and they will support IPv4+.







You're just inventing yet another incompatible standard and you have to
touch everything, DHCP, DNS all applications etc.



There is an adjustment to IPv4+ that the format of addresses will not be 
[0-655365].[0-655365]v4 - but it will be [256-511].[0-255].[0-255].[0-255]

So IPv4+ addresses will be in the format of IPv4 addresses - it will end-user 
adoption of IPv4+ easier and also integration in the applicative layer easier 
(as application developers will only need to set that the first number can be 
higher instead to support a new format of [0-655365].[0-655365]v4 )







From: Mikael Abrahamsson 
Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 10:22 PM
To: Elad Cohen 
Cc: Brielle ; NANOG list 
Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election



On Wed, 13 May 2020, Elad Cohen wrote:

> LOL funny seeing you changing your mind by 180 degrees when someone you
> know in the community writing to you the exact same thing.

"In addition, the sockets API should be extended to support IPxl with a
new socket domain PF_IPXL which is identical to PF_INET in every respect
save that the IP addresses are 8 bytes long instead of 4."

Do you realise that this means you're requiring changing *every*
socket-speaking application in the world?

It's taken us decades to get applications to use the new struct to support
IPv6+IPv4, resetting the timer back to 0 and starting over does not help
deployment. It just kicks it another 20 years down the line.

You're just inventing yet another incompatible standard and you have to
touch everything, DHCP, DNS all applications etc.

--
Mikael Abrahamssonemail: swm...@swm.pp.se

**
IPv4 is over
Are you ready for the new I

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Elad Cohen]

"absolute king" - I'm only trying to be elected to RIPE board, what does this 
strange person wants.



From: Terrence Koeman
Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 11:28 PM
To: Elad Cohen; nanog@nanog.org
Subject: RE: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

Yes, are you having trouble understanding that? Even if we suppose a world 
where you are the absolute king of all RIRs plus IANA *and* majority 
shareholder of all commercial entities you have envisioned for your round 
table, it would still not work.

I'd pay to see that unfold in a VR simulation though, A+ entertainment :D

--
Regards,
   Terrence Koeman, PhD/MTh/BPsy
 Darkness Reigns (Holding) B.V.

Please quote relevant replies.

> -Original Message-
> From: Elad Cohen 
> Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 10:01 PM
> To: Terrence Koeman ; nanog@nanog.org
> Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election
>
> "actually be implemented, even in theory"
>
>
>
> 
>
> From: Terrence Koeman
> Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 10:58 PM
> To: Elad Cohen; David Hubbard; nanog@nanog.org
> Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election
>
>
> You're welcome :) And don't worry I already have posted it on social
> media.
>
>
> I don't believe there is any danger of your "solutions" being mistaken for
> something that can actually be implemented, even in theory.
>
>
> If there was we would have larger issues than just the resource drain and
> time-wasting of trying to forcefully implement comically unrealistic
> "solutions". None of which are abated by suppression of your "solutions"
> or discussion of them.
>
>
> In fact, if people that believe you're a genius and that your "solutions"
> merit implementation exist in positions where they can actually effect an
> attempt to implement them (causing certain resource drain and time-
> wasting), it's best we know about it sooner rather than later.
>
>
> --
> Regards,
>Terrence Koeman, PhD/MTh/BPsy
>  Darkness Reigns (Holding) B.V.
>
> Please quote relevant replies.
> Spelling errors courtesy of my 'smart'phone.
>
> ____
>
> From: Elad Cohen 
> Sent: Wednesday, 13 May 2020 21:16
> To: Terrence Koeman; David Hubbard; nanog@nanog.org
> Subject: [SPAM-MS] Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election
>
>
>
>Thank you for publishing it, please post also in your social
> accounts.
>
>
>
>From: NANOG on behalf of Terrence Koeman
>Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 9:54 PM
>To: David Hubbard; nanog@nanog.org
>Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election
>
>
>If you thought IPv4+ was entertaining, check out his "solution" to
> packet spoofing:
>
>
>https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/members-discuss/2020-
> April/003902.html
>
>
>And SPAM:
>
>
>https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/members-discuss/2020-
> April/003778.html
>
>
>These should be submitted as RFCs, but on April 1st next year :)
>
>
>This could only be funnier if he wasn't dead serious and attempting
> to gain power in RIPE right at this moment. Never in my life have I
> encountered such an obvious and clear example of the Dunning-Kruger
> effect[1]. He's entrenched right at the peak of "Mount Stupid"[2] (he
> appears committed to building a tower there).
>
>
>Ref:
>
>[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
>
>[2]
> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/46/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger
> _Effect_01.svg
>
>    --
>    Regards,
>   Terrence Koeman, PhD/MTh/BPsy
> Darkness Reigns (Holding) B.V.
>
>Please quote relevant replies.
>Spelling errors courtesy of my 'smart'phone.
>
>From: David Hubbard 
>Sent: Wednesday, 13 May 2020 19:19
>To: nanog@nanog.org
>Subject: [SPAM-MS] Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election
>
>
>LOL the IPv4+ thing was a pretty entertaining read.  You clearly
> don’t have even a basic understanding of the v4 packet structure, or that
> the octet display concept is simply for human benefit.  IPv6 can be
> implemented with ‘software updates’ too…
>
>From: NANOG  on behalf of Elad Cohen
> 
>Date: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 at 9:47 AM
>To: "Ronald F. Guilmette" , "nanog@nanog.org"
> 
>Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election
>
>Hello Everyone,
>
>

RE: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Terrence Koeman]

Yes, are you having trouble understanding that? Even if we suppose a world 
where you are the absolute king of all RIRs plus IANA *and* majority 
shareholder of all commercial entities you have envisioned for your round 
table, it would still not work.

I'd pay to see that unfold in a VR simulation though, A+ entertainment :D

-- 
Regards,
   Terrence Koeman, PhD/MTh/BPsy
 Darkness Reigns (Holding) B.V.

Please quote relevant replies.

> -Original Message-
> From: Elad Cohen 
> Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 10:01 PM
> To: Terrence Koeman ; nanog@nanog.org
> Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election
> 
> "actually be implemented, even in theory"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: Terrence Koeman
> Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 10:58 PM
> To: Elad Cohen; David Hubbard; nanog@nanog.org
> Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election
> 
> 
> You're welcome :) And don't worry I already have posted it on social
> media.
> 
> 
> I don't believe there is any danger of your "solutions" being mistaken for
> something that can actually be implemented, even in theory.
> 
> 
> If there was we would have larger issues than just the resource drain and
> time-wasting of trying to forcefully implement comically unrealistic
> "solutions". None of which are abated by suppression of your "solutions"
> or discussion of them.
> 
> 
> In fact, if people that believe you're a genius and that your "solutions"
> merit implementation exist in positions where they can actually effect an
> attempt to implement them (causing certain resource drain and time-
> wasting), it's best we know about it sooner rather than later.
> 
> 
> --
> Regards,
>Terrence Koeman, PhD/MTh/BPsy
>  Darkness Reigns (Holding) B.V.
> 
> Please quote relevant replies.
> Spelling errors courtesy of my 'smart'phone.
> 
> ____
> 
> From: Elad Cohen 
> Sent: Wednesday, 13 May 2020 21:16
> To: Terrence Koeman; David Hubbard; nanog@nanog.org
> Subject: [SPAM-MS] Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election
> 
> 
> 
>   Thank you for publishing it, please post also in your social
> accounts.
> 
> 
>   
>   From: NANOG on behalf of Terrence Koeman
>   Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 9:54 PM
>   To: David Hubbard; nanog@nanog.org
>   Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election
> 
> 
>   If you thought IPv4+ was entertaining, check out his "solution" to
> packet spoofing:
> 
> 
>   https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/members-discuss/2020-
> April/003902.html
> 
> 
>   And SPAM:
> 
> 
>   https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/members-discuss/2020-
> April/003778.html
> 
> 
>   These should be submitted as RFCs, but on April 1st next year :)
> 
> 
>   This could only be funnier if he wasn't dead serious and attempting
> to gain power in RIPE right at this moment. Never in my life have I
> encountered such an obvious and clear example of the Dunning-Kruger
> effect[1]. He's entrenched right at the peak of "Mount Stupid"[2] (he
> appears committed to building a tower there).
> 
> 
>   Ref:
> 
>   [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
> 
>   [2]
> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/46/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger
> _Effect_01.svg
> 
>   --
>       Regards,
>  Terrence Koeman, PhD/MTh/BPsy
>Darkness Reigns (Holding) B.V.
> 
>   Please quote relevant replies.
>   Spelling errors courtesy of my 'smart'phone.
>   
>   From: David Hubbard 
>   Sent: Wednesday, 13 May 2020 19:19
>   To: nanog@nanog.org
>   Subject: [SPAM-MS] Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election
> 
> 
>   LOL the IPv4+ thing was a pretty entertaining read.  You clearly
> don’t have even a basic understanding of the v4 packet structure, or that
> the octet display concept is simply for human benefit.  IPv6 can be
> implemented with ‘software updates’ too…
> 
>   From: NANOG  on behalf of Elad Cohen
> 
>   Date: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 at 9:47 AM
>   To: "Ronald F. Guilmette" , "nanog@nanog.org"
> 
>   Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election
> 
>   Hello Everyone,
> 
>   My apology for not providing an official response to the first "The
> Ronald Show" that took place here many months ago, I was out of hospital
> after full anesthesia and it took me months to get back to myself.
> 
>   What was done towards 

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Benson Schliesser via NANOG]

To many (or most) of the people participating in this thread -

I enjoy watching flame wars as much - perhaps more - than the next
person...

But please keep in mind the NANOG mailing list guidelines at
https://www.nanog.org/resources/usage-guidelines/ as well as the Code of
Conduct that's included by reference at
https://www.nanog.org/about/code-conduct/. Clearly, there are multiple
NANOG mailing list guidelines that are being violated by people in this
thread. I encourage all of you to read the guidelines and evaluate each
message carefully before sending it.

I'd especially like to draw your attention to one guideline in particular:

#2 - Posts should be thoughtfully crafted for an audience of more than
10,000 Internet-networking engineers, operators, and architects in our
community.

Even if I am insanely generous in how I characterize the technical and
operational value of these messages, it's pretty clear that many of them
don't pass this particular test. So, please up your game. Otherwise, you're
wasting the time of thousands of people. And you're creating more work for
NANOG staff - they will have to issue warnings, place people into
moderation queues, etc. It's just a pain in the ass for everybody involved,
so don't do it.

Thanks,
 - Benson
(I am a NANOG Board Member, but I am sending this message only in my
personal capacity at this time.)

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via NANOG]

It is curious how many times we have heard that, not only heard in NANOG and 
other NOGs, but also in IETF, even debated in long thread with several IDs, and 
for some strange reason, we all missed that or maybe because nobody got the 
running code to demonstrate his/her point in a realistic way?

 

Instead, IPv6 is working for everyone that invest just a little bit of effort, 
in the only credible long-term solution.

 

Of course, like in any aspect of our life, always some people will believe that 
they can keep using legacy tools, I still see some people using abacus instead 
of the “calc.app”, it is nice, just for fun, but is not smart neither 
productive.

 

It is matter of what the world needs.

 

Regards,

Jordi

@jordipalet

 

 

 

El 13/5/20 21:58, "NANOG en nombre de Elad Cohen"  escribió:

 

Your home ISP will support IPv4+ packets exactly as it is now, because IPv4+ is 
based on the exact current IPv4 packet format. With the needed roundtable - 
IPv4+ will be deployed in the whole internet and fast.

From: NANOG  on behalf of David Hubbard 

Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 10:44 PM
To: NANOG list 
Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election 

 

It just keeps getting dumber by the minute.  My home ISP hasn’t even updated 
firmware to one that supports v6, but yeah, they’re surely going to update to 
your Frankenstein ipv4 because you’re going to give them a taste of addresses 
from the nightmare pool that will reach even less of the internet than v6.

 

From: NANOG  on behalf of Elad Cohen 
Date: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 at 3:41 PM
To: Mikael Abrahamsson 
Cc: NANOG list 
Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

 



Do you realise that this means you're requiring changing *every* 
socket-speaking application in the world?



Every internet host that will want to speak IPv4+ , will have an update (for 
example through the operating systems automatic updates mechanisms)

 

 



It's taken us decades to get applications to use the new struct to support 
IPv6+IPv4, resetting the timer back to 0 and starting over does not help 
deployment. It just kicks it another 20 years down the line.



I wrote about the usage of a roundtable in order to implement everything fast 
(the roundtable will include one representative from each of the operating 
system vendors, one representative from each of the routing equipment 
manufacturers and one representative from each of the 5 RIR's), if I will be 
elected to RIPE board I will do everything in my power so this roundtable will 
be formed fast and that the needed updates will be created fast. Each party in 
the roundtable will receive an amount of free IPv4 addresses from the new IPv4+ 
pool, and each ASN will also receive for example a /21 , home-routers and 
home-modems will not be needed to be updated and they will support IPv4+.

 

 



You're just inventing yet another incompatible standard and you have to 
touch everything, DHCP, DNS all applications etc.



There is an adjustment to IPv4+ that the format of addresses will not be 
[0-655365].[0-655365]v4 - but it will be [256-511].[0-255].[0-255].[0-255]

So IPv4+ addresses will be in the format of IPv4 addresses - it will end-user 
adoption of IPv4+ easier and also integration in the applicative layer easier 
(as application developers will only need to set that the first number can be 
higher instead to support a new format of [0-655365].[0-655365]v4 )

 

 

From: Mikael Abrahamsson 
Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 10:22 PM
To: Elad Cohen 
Cc: Brielle ; NANOG list 
Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election 

 

On Wed, 13 May 2020, Elad Cohen wrote:

> LOL funny seeing you changing your mind by 180 degrees when someone you 
> know in the community writing to you the exact same thing.

"In addition, the sockets API should be extended to support IPxl with a 
new socket domain PF_IPXL which is identical to PF_INET in every respect 
save that the IP addresses are 8 bytes long instead of 4."

Do you realise that this means you're requiring changing *every* 
socket-speaking application in the world?

It's taken us decades to get applications to use the new struct to support 
IPv6+IPv4, resetting the timer back to 0 and starting over does not help 
deployment. It just kicks it another 20 years down the line.

You're just inventing yet another incompatible standard and you have to 
touch everything, DHCP, DNS all applications etc.

-- 
Mikael Abrahamssonemail: swm...@swm.pp.se



**
IPv4 is over
Are you ready for the new Internet ?
http://www.theipv6company.com
The IPv6 Company

This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or 
confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the 
individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, 
copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if 
partially

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Rob McEwen]

On 5/13/2020 9:46 AM, Elad Cohen wrote:

Real identities behind "The Spamhaus Project":

"Rob Shultz" - Rob McEwen (https://www.invaluement.com/)



Elad made this public allegation one of RIPE "Open Source Working Group" 
mailing lists, that he started here:


https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/opensource-wg/2020-April.txt

Here is my response to this allegation (new thread):

https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/opensource-wg/2020-May/93.html

It went back and forth - you can read all the *drama* in that thread. 
Elad "doubled down" by publicly saying to me:


/*"You are a complete liar. You are Rob Shultz."*/

I then put it to bed in the following thread:

https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/opensource-wg/2020-May/000100.html

If anyone has the SLIGHTEST SUSPICION that this might be true, PLEASE 
read those threads.


He ended up being put on "moderated" status on the RIPE forum and was 
publicly reprimanded here:


https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/opensource-wg/2020-May/99.html

He called me a "liar" - but has produced ZERO evidence to support his 
assertion - even though I "called his bluff" and asked him to "put up 
for shut up". He wouldn't "shut up" - but he also is not capable for 
"putting up" because the only evidence he has - is delusions that only 
exist inside his mind. I'm not a psychiatrist - but Elad is either very 
maliciously and unprofessionally lying to attack anti-spam people - or 
has a serious mental illness and needs psychiatric help. One or the 
other.  Does this mean everything he says is factually wrong? I didn't 
claim that. I don't have the time nor inclination to fact check his long 
rants. But I do know that I'm not, nor have ever been, "Rob Schultz" and 
that I don't secretly work with/for Spamhaus in any way/shape/form. And 
I really don't like being called a "liar" on a public forum by someone. 
There are many out there who might run across posts like that and not 
bother to get the whole context, and might not know the real truth. So 
things like this can become an annoyance for many years to come.


--
Rob McEwen
https://www.invaluement.com

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Brielle]

Sorry for any rejections coming from my mail server currently for list 
traffic!   Something seems to have pissed off rspamd on my end and its 
suddenly marking everything from the list as spam...


Though it only seems to be doing it for this thread.





On 5/13/2020 1:56 PM, Brielle wrote:




I haven’t changed my mind, Elad.

However understanding more of the background on why people have tried to 
look at it in the past and why it didn’t happen is important.


Bills example, while it shows it is possible, runs into major issues we 
already deal with that have been around since the 90s.  The 
implementation effort wouldn’t make sense these days.


Funny how people who are recognized as being knowledgeable and 
experienced in the community are taken much more seriously, isn’t it?


Sent from my iPhone


On May 13, 2020, at 1:11 PM, Elad Cohen  wrote:


LOL funny seeing you changing your mind by 180 degrees when someone 
you know in the community writing to you the exact same thing.


Grow a backbone please.

*From:* NANOG  on behalf of Brielle 


*Sent:* Wednesday, May 13, 2020 9:57 PM
*To:* NANOG list 
*Subject:* Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election
On 5/13/2020 12:42 PM, William Herrin wrote:
> Hi Brielle,
> 
> http://bill.herrin.us/network/ipxl.html
> 
> Someone said much as you did way back in 2007. It bugged me, this

> defeatism that said there was no way IPv4 could have been
> incrementally updated to support more addresses, that a greenfield
> protocol was the only path forward. So I designed an upgrade factoring
> in the need for pre- and post-upgrade stacks and networks to
> interoperate over a period of years. It took all of 4 printed pages.
> 
> It's clear IPv6 is the path forward. It was clear in 2007. But don't

> for a second believe that's because IPv4 could not have been upgraded
> in place. That's a failure of imagination.


Interesting, thank you for the insight and some detailed breakdown.  I'm
actually really glad someone with some more experience jumped in with
some actual background in this effort.

One thing that cropped up in my mind from the late 90s and AFAIK still
goes on today - isn't it pretty well documented that more then a small
number of 'professional' firewalls have a habit of just outright
discarding/rejecting/barfing on packets with options in them that they
don't recognize?

IE: PMTU/ECN blackhole redux.

Of course since IPx1 requires some stack upgrades, so that point is moot
really.

Sigh.  Back to the original thought that its just easier to go IPv6 then
try to 'fix' whats already out there.



--
Brielle Bruns
The Summit Open Source Development Group
http://www.sosdg.org    / http://www.ahbl.org



--
Brielle Bruns
The Summit Open Source Development Group
http://www.sosdg.org/ http://www.ahbl.org

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Shane Ronan]

Elad,

How do you expect to get elected when you are attacking the very people who
will be voting in the election?

Further, it would seem you have very little experience in actually
operating large scale networks, network equipment or softwarr. You do
realize that a LARGE number of devices on the Internet run operating
systems that are no longer vendor supported? So even if you could convince
ALL vendors to support IPV4+ (nearly impossible), how do you plan to solve
the devices I mentioned?Perhaps it's because you can't, and neither can
IPV6, except a subset of those devices already support IPV6, so there will
less devices left behind than with your solution.

The more you talk, the more uneducated you sound.

Shane



On Wed, May 13, 2020, 3:48 PM Elad Cohen  wrote:

> For you nothing will work.
> --
> *From:* Töma Gavrichenkov 
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 13, 2020 10:39 PM
> *To:* Elad Cohen 
> *Cc:* David Hubbard ; NANOG <
> nanog@nanog.org>
> *Subject:* Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election
>
>  Peace,
>
> On Wed, May 13, 2020, 10:27 PM Elad Cohen  wrote:
>
> So you didn't even test the implementation and didn't create it - so why
> you are writing "As a matter of fact". Which fact ? any evidence ?
>
>
> No, Elad.  It is *you* who needs to prove that your concept works.  Unless
> you do it, it is wise (and generally acceptable in IETF and the likes) to
> assume it doesn't.
>
> So far, you haven't done so.
>
> Having said so, when it comes to your "anti-spoofing solution" (sic!), I
> even have dedicated certain time reviewing it and writing a response.
> Based on the concepts I've seen, I honestly wonder if you ever got the
> appropriate engineering degree.
>
> By the way, what you have published as your "biography" on the RIPE Exec
> Board candidate page doesn't quite help to sort out the latter statement.
>
> --
> Töma
>
>

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[William Herrin]

On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 12:18 PM Elad Cohen  wrote:
> Thank you for publishing it, please post also in your social accounts.
> https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/members-discuss/2020-April/003902.html

"At the source BGP router, for any ip packet with a source address
that is from the network of the source BGP router (lets call it
original ip packet) - the source BGP router will create a new ip
packet "

How long have you been around Elad? I expect such ideas from a junior
network engineer. It's part of the learning process.

For example, in this case it's dysfunctional for an intermediate
router that may be on one of several equal-cost paths to hold packets
awaiting their companions. Even if you found a way to embed the
information in the base packet, backbone-level routers simply don't
have the capacity to do complex security evaluations (e.g. encryption)
on individual packets. The cost of changing that would be phenomenal.

Regards,
Bill Herrin



>
>
> And SPAM:
>
>
> https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/members-discuss/2020-April/003778.html
>
>
> These should be submitted as RFCs, but on April 1st next year :)
>
>
> This could only be funnier if he wasn't dead serious and attempting to gain 
> power in RIPE right at this moment. Never in my life have I encountered such 
> an obvious and clear example of the Dunning-Kruger effect[1]. He's entrenched 
> right at the peak of "Mount Stupid"[2] (he appears committed to building a 
> tower there).
>
>
> Ref:
>
> [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
>
> [2] 
> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/46/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_Effect_01.svg
>
>
> --
> Regards,
>Terrence Koeman, PhD/MTh/BPsy
>  Darkness Reigns (Holding) B.V.
>
> Please quote relevant replies.
> Spelling errors courtesy of my 'smart'phone.
> ____________
> From: David Hubbard 
> Sent: Wednesday, 13 May 2020 19:19
> To: nanog@nanog.org
> Subject: [SPAM-MS] Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election
>
> LOL the IPv4+ thing was a pretty entertaining read.  You clearly don’t have 
> even a basic understanding of the v4 packet structure, or that the octet 
> display concept is simply for human benefit.  IPv6 can be implemented with 
> ‘software updates’ too…
>
> From: NANOG  on behalf of Elad Cohen 
> 
> Date: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 at 9:47 AM
> To: "Ronald F. Guilmette" , "nanog@nanog.org" 
> 
> Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election
>
> Hello Everyone,
>
> My apology for not providing an official response to the first "The Ronald 
> Show" that took place here many months ago, I was out of hospital after full 
> anesthesia and it took me months to get back to myself.
>
> What was done towards me and what being done to me by Ronald is an 
> intentional personal attack against me and I will explain.
>
> I didn't agree to provide private business documents to the illegal anonymous 
> organization "The Spamhaus Project" that they tried to extort from me - then 
> I found out who are the real people behind the illegal anonymous organization 
> "The Spamhaus Project" - and then they started to attack me (including here 
> on Nanog, with false information, when I was out of hospital and wasn't in 
> the condition to respond to them).
>
> "The Spamhaus Project" is an illegal anonymous organization according to 
> their own words in their own following presentation:
>
> https://www.scribd.com/document/445894312/Spamhaus-Illegal-Private-Data-Violation
>
> They wrote in it that they receive on a regular basis - massive amount of 
> illegaly-obtained privacy data from their contacts in many internet companies 
> and internet organizations - and then they share it in illegal way (without 
> any warrant) with Law Enforcement Agencies - this is the reason that Law 
> Enforcement Agencies are doing nothing regarding the illegal anonymous 
> organization "The Spamhaus Project".
>
> Ronald Guilmette is the front person of the illegal anonymous organization 
> "The Spamhaus Project".
>
>
> 
> and that said legal counsel has then
> proceeded to threaten various officials of the City of Cape Town,
> South Africa with possible legal action if they do not relinquish
> to him their rights in and title to the 165.25.0.0/16 block
> 
> This is a complete lie, in order to shame CoCT I will not share their 
> internal correspondences. Anyone interested to know more information can 
> email me directly.
>
>
> 
> "I am assured that at no time did the City of Cape Town ever sell, trade, or 
> barter away their rights to this valuable IPv4 

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Elad Cohen]

"actually be implemented, even in theory"



From: Terrence Koeman
Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 10:58 PM
To: Elad Cohen; David Hubbard; nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election


You're welcome :) And don't worry I already have posted it on social media.


I don't believe there is any danger of your "solutions" being mistaken for 
something that can actually be implemented, even in theory.


If there was we would have larger issues than just the resource drain and 
time-wasting of trying to forcefully implement comically unrealistic 
"solutions". None of which are abated by suppression of your "solutions" or 
discussion of them.


In fact, if people that believe you're a genius and that your "solutions" merit 
implementation exist in positions where they can actually effect an attempt to 
implement them (causing certain resource drain and time-wasting), it's best we 
know about it sooner rather than later.

--
Regards,
   Terrence Koeman, PhD/MTh/BPsy
 Darkness Reigns (Holding) B.V.

Please quote relevant replies.
Spelling errors courtesy of my 'smart'phone.

From: Elad Cohen 
Sent: Wednesday, 13 May 2020 21:16
To: Terrence Koeman; David Hubbard; nanog@nanog.org
Subject: [SPAM-MS] Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election


Thank you for publishing it, please post also in your social accounts.



From: NANOG on behalf of Terrence Koeman
Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 9:54 PM
To: David Hubbard; nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election


If you thought IPv4+ was entertaining, check out his "solution" to packet 
spoofing:


https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/members-discuss/2020-April/003902.html


And SPAM:


https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/members-discuss/2020-April/003778.html


These should be submitted as RFCs, but on April 1st next year :)


This could only be funnier if he wasn't dead serious and attempting to gain 
power in RIPE right at this moment. Never in my life have I encountered such an 
obvious and clear example of the Dunning-Kruger effect[1]. He's entrenched 
right at the peak of "Mount Stupid"[2] (he appears committed to building a 
tower there).


Ref:

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

[2] 
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/46/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_Effect_01.svg

--
Regards,
   Terrence Koeman, PhD/MTh/BPsy
 Darkness Reigns (Holding) B.V.

Please quote relevant replies.
Spelling errors courtesy of my 'smart'phone.

From: David Hubbard 
Sent: Wednesday, 13 May 2020 19:19
To: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: [SPAM-MS] Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election


LOL the IPv4+ thing was a pretty entertaining read.  You clearly don’t have 
even a basic understanding of the v4 packet structure, or that the octet 
display concept is simply for human benefit.  IPv6 can be implemented with 
‘software updates’ too…

From: NANOG  on behalf of Elad Cohen 
Date: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 at 9:47 AM
To: "Ronald F. Guilmette" , "nanog@nanog.org" 

Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

Hello Everyone,

My apology for not providing an official response to the first "The Ronald 
Show" that took place here many months ago, I was out of hospital after full 
anesthesia and it took me months to get back to myself.

What was done towards me and what being done to me by Ronald is an intentional 
personal attack against me and I will explain.

I didn't agree to provide private business documents to the illegal anonymous 
organization "The Spamhaus Project" that they tried to extort from me - then I 
found out who are the real people behind the illegal anonymous organization 
"The Spamhaus Project" - and then they started to attack me (including here on 
Nanog, with false information, when I was out of hospital and wasn't in the 
condition to respond to them).

"The Spamhaus Project" is an illegal anonymous organization according to their 
own words in their own following presentation:

https://www.scribd.com/document/445894312/Spamhaus-Illegal-Private-Data-Violation

They wrote in it that they receive on a regular basis - massive amount of 
illegaly-obtained privacy data from their contacts in many internet companies 
and internet organizations - and then they share it in illegal way (without any 
warrant) with Law Enforcement Agencies - this is the reason that Law 
Enforcement Agencies are doing nothing regarding the illegal anonymous 
organization "The Spamhaus Project".

Ronald Guilmette is the front person of the illegal anonymous organization "The 
Spamhaus Project".



and that said legal counsel has then
proceeded to threaten various officials of the City of Cape Town,
South Africa with possible legal action if t

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Neil Hanlon]

More of an "ideas guy" I guess

On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 3:33 PM Töma Gavrichenkov  wrote:

> Peace,
>
> On Wed, May 13, 2020, 10:07 PM Elad Cohen  wrote:
>
>> "As a matter of fact" - if you created an implementation please send me
>> the sourcecode.
>>
>
> Wait, so you're coming up publicly with a proposal you don't even have a
> reference implementation for?!
>
> Oh, my.
>
> --
> Töma
>
>>

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Terrence Koeman]

You're welcome :) And don't worry I already have posted it on social media.


I don't believe there is any danger of your "solutions" being mistaken for 
something that can actually be implemented, even in theory.


If there was we would have larger issues than just the resource drain and 
time-wasting of trying to forcefully implement comically unrealistic 
"solutions". None of which are abated by suppression of your "solutions" or 
discussion of them.


In fact, if people that believe you're a genius and that your "solutions" merit 
implementation exist in positions where they can actually effect an attempt to 
implement them (causing certain resource drain and time-wasting), it's best we 
know about it sooner rather than later.


-- 
Regards,
   Terrence Koeman, PhD/MTh/BPsy
     Darkness Reigns (Holding) B.V.

Please quote relevant replies.
Spelling errors courtesy of my 'smart'phone.

From: Elad Cohen 
Sent: Wednesday, 13 May 2020 21:16
To: Terrence Koeman; David Hubbard; nanog@nanog.org
Subject: [SPAM-MS] Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

> Thank you for publishing it, please post also in your social accounts. 
>
>
>  
> From: NANOG on behalf of Terrence Koeman 
> Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 9:54 PM 
> To: David Hubbard; nanog@nanog.org 
> Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election 
>
>
> If you thought IPv4+ was entertaining, check out his "solution" to packet 
> spoofing: 
>
>
> https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/members-discuss/2020-April/003902.html
>  
>
>
> And SPAM: 
>
>
> https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/members-discuss/2020-April/003778.html
>  
>
>
> These should be submitted as RFCs, but on April 1st next year :) 
>
>
> This could only be funnier if he wasn't dead serious and attempting to gain 
> power in RIPE right at this moment. Never in my life have I encountered such 
> an obvious and clear example of the Dunning-Kruger effect[1]. He's entrenched 
> right at the peak of "Mount Stupid"[2] (he appears committed to building a 
> tower there). 
>
>
> Ref: 
>
> [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect 
>
> [2] 
> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/46/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_Effect_01.svg
>  
>
> -- 
> Regards, 
>    Terrence Koeman, PhD/MTh/BPsy 
>  Darkness Reigns (Holding) B.V. 
>
> Please quote relevant replies. 
> Spelling errors courtesy of my 'smart'phone. 
>  
> From: David Hubbard  
> Sent: Wednesday, 13 May 2020 19:19 
> To: nanog@nanog.org 
> Subject: [SPAM-MS] Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election 
>
>
> LOL the IPv4+ thing was a pretty entertaining read.  You clearly don’t have 
> even a basic understanding of the v4 packet structure, or that the octet 
> display concept is simply for human benefit.  IPv6 can be implemented with 
> ‘software updates’ too… 
>
> From: NANOG  on behalf of Elad Cohen 
>  
> Date: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 at 9:47 AM 
> To: "Ronald F. Guilmette" , "nanog@nanog.org" 
>  
> Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election 
>
> Hello Everyone, 
>
> My apology for not providing an official response to the first "The Ronald 
> Show" that took place here many months ago, I was out of hospital after full 
> anesthesia and it took me months to get back to myself. 
>
> What was done towards me and what being done to me by Ronald is an 
> intentional personal attack against me and I will explain. 
>
> I didn't agree to provide private business documents to the illegal anonymous 
> organization "The Spamhaus Project" that they tried to extort from me - then 
> I found out who are the real people behind the illegal anonymous organization 
> "The Spamhaus Project" - and then they started to attack me (including here 
> on Nanog, with false information, when I was out of hospital and wasn't in 
> the condition to respond to them). 
>
> "The Spamhaus Project" is an illegal anonymous organization according to 
> their own words in their own following presentation: 
>
> https://www.scribd.com/document/445894312/Spamhaus-Illegal-Private-Data-Violation
>  
>
> They wrote in it that they receive on a regular basis - massive amount of 
> illegaly-obtained privacy data from their contacts in many internet companies 
> and internet organizations - and then they share it in illegal way (without 
> any warrant) with Law Enforcement Agencies - this is the reason that Law 
> Enforcement Agencies are doing nothing regarding the illegal anonymous 
> organization "The Spamhaus Project". 
>
> Ro

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Brielle]




I haven’t changed my mind, Elad.  

However understanding more of the background on why people have tried to look 
at it in the past and why it didn’t happen is important.

Bills example, while it shows it is possible, runs into major issues we already 
deal with that have been around since the 90s.  The implementation effort 
wouldn’t make sense these days.

Funny how people who are recognized as being knowledgeable and experienced in 
the community are taken much more seriously, isn’t it?

Sent from my iPhone

>> On May 13, 2020, at 1:11 PM, Elad Cohen  wrote:
> 
> LOL funny seeing you changing your mind by 180 degrees when someone you know 
> in the community writing to you the exact same thing.
> 
> Grow a backbone please.
> From: NANOG  on behalf of Brielle 
> Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 9:57 PM
> To: NANOG list 
> Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election
>  
> On 5/13/2020 12:42 PM, William Herrin wrote:
> > Hi Brielle,
> > 
> > http://bill.herrin.us/network/ipxl.html
> > 
> > Someone said much as you did way back in 2007. It bugged me, this
> > defeatism that said there was no way IPv4 could have been
> > incrementally updated to support more addresses, that a greenfield
> > protocol was the only path forward. So I designed an upgrade factoring
> > in the need for pre- and post-upgrade stacks and networks to
> > interoperate over a period of years. It took all of 4 printed pages.
> > 
> > It's clear IPv6 is the path forward. It was clear in 2007. But don't
> > for a second believe that's because IPv4 could not have been upgraded
> > in place. That's a failure of imagination.
> 
> 
> Interesting, thank you for the insight and some detailed breakdown.  I'm 
> actually really glad someone with some more experience jumped in with 
> some actual background in this effort.
> 
> One thing that cropped up in my mind from the late 90s and AFAIK still 
> goes on today - isn't it pretty well documented that more then a small 
> number of 'professional' firewalls have a habit of just outright 
> discarding/rejecting/barfing on packets with options in them that they 
> don't recognize?
> 
> IE: PMTU/ECN blackhole redux.
> 
> Of course since IPx1 requires some stack upgrades, so that point is moot 
> really.
> 
> Sigh.  Back to the original thought that its just easier to go IPv6 then 
> try to 'fix' whats already out there.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Brielle Bruns
> The Summit Open Source Development Group
> http://www.sosdg.org/ http://www.ahbl.org

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Elad Cohen]

Your home ISP will support IPv4+ packets exactly as it is now, because IPv4+ is 
based on the exact current IPv4 packet format. With the needed roundtable - 
IPv4+ will be deployed in the whole internet and fast.

From: NANOG  on behalf of David Hubbard 

Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 10:44 PM
To: NANOG list 
Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election


It just keeps getting dumber by the minute.  My home ISP hasn’t even updated 
firmware to one that supports v6, but yeah, they’re surely going to update to 
your Frankenstein ipv4 because you’re going to give them a taste of addresses 
from the nightmare pool that will reach even less of the internet than v6.



From: NANOG  on behalf of Elad Cohen 
Date: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 at 3:41 PM
To: Mikael Abrahamsson 
Cc: NANOG list 
Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election





Do you realise that this means you're requiring changing *every*
socket-speaking application in the world?



Every internet host that will want to speak IPv4+ , will have an update (for 
example through the operating systems automatic updates mechanisms)







It's taken us decades to get applications to use the new struct to support
IPv6+IPv4, resetting the timer back to 0 and starting over does not help
deployment. It just kicks it another 20 years down the line.



I wrote about the usage of a roundtable in order to implement everything fast 
(the roundtable will include one representative from each of the operating 
system vendors, one representative from each of the routing equipment 
manufacturers and one representative from each of the 5 RIR's), if I will be 
elected to RIPE board I will do everything in my power so this roundtable will 
be formed fast and that the needed updates will be created fast. Each party in 
the roundtable will receive an amount of free IPv4 addresses from the new IPv4+ 
pool, and each ASN will also receive for example a /21 , home-routers and 
home-modems will not be needed to be updated and they will support IPv4+.







You're just inventing yet another incompatible standard and you have to
touch everything, DHCP, DNS all applications etc.



There is an adjustment to IPv4+ that the format of addresses will not be 
[0-655365].[0-655365]v4 - but it will be [256-511].[0-255].[0-255].[0-255]

So IPv4+ addresses will be in the format of IPv4 addresses - it will end-user 
adoption of IPv4+ easier and also integration in the applicative layer easier 
(as application developers will only need to set that the first number can be 
higher instead to support a new format of [0-655365].[0-655365]v4 )







From: Mikael Abrahamsson 
Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 10:22 PM
To: Elad Cohen 
Cc: Brielle ; NANOG list 
Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election



On Wed, 13 May 2020, Elad Cohen wrote:

> LOL funny seeing you changing your mind by 180 degrees when someone you
> know in the community writing to you the exact same thing.

"In addition, the sockets API should be extended to support IPxl with a
new socket domain PF_IPXL which is identical to PF_INET in every respect
save that the IP addresses are 8 bytes long instead of 4."

Do you realise that this means you're requiring changing *every*
socket-speaking application in the world?

It's taken us decades to get applications to use the new struct to support
IPv6+IPv4, resetting the timer back to 0 and starting over does not help
deployment. It just kicks it another 20 years down the line.

You're just inventing yet another incompatible standard and you have to
touch everything, DHCP, DNS all applications etc.

--
Mikael Abrahamssonemail: swm...@swm.pp.se

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Töma Gavrichenkov]

Peace,

On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 10:43 PM Elad Cohen  wrote:
> For you nothing will work.

Is it a personal attack?

IPv6 is working good for me so far ;-)

--
Töma

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[David Hubbard]

It just keeps getting dumber by the minute.  My home ISP hasn’t even updated 
firmware to one that supports v6, but yeah, they’re surely going to update to 
your Frankenstein ipv4 because you’re going to give them a taste of addresses 
from the nightmare pool that will reach even less of the internet than v6.

From: NANOG  on behalf of Elad Cohen 
Date: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 at 3:41 PM
To: Mikael Abrahamsson 
Cc: NANOG list 
Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election


Do you realise that this means you're requiring changing *every*
socket-speaking application in the world?

Every internet host that will want to speak IPv4+ , will have an update (for 
example through the operating systems automatic updates mechanisms)



It's taken us decades to get applications to use the new struct to support
IPv6+IPv4, resetting the timer back to 0 and starting over does not help
deployment. It just kicks it another 20 years down the line.

I wrote about the usage of a roundtable in order to implement everything fast 
(the roundtable will include one representative from each of the operating 
system vendors, one representative from each of the routing equipment 
manufacturers and one representative from each of the 5 RIR's), if I will be 
elected to RIPE board I will do everything in my power so this roundtable will 
be formed fast and that the needed updates will be created fast. Each party in 
the roundtable will receive an amount of free IPv4 addresses from the new IPv4+ 
pool, and each ASN will also receive for example a /21 , home-routers and 
home-modems will not be needed to be updated and they will support IPv4+.



You're just inventing yet another incompatible standard and you have to
touch everything, DHCP, DNS all applications etc.

There is an adjustment to IPv4+ that the format of addresses will not be 
[0-655365].[0-655365]v4 - but it will be [256-511].[0-255].[0-255].[0-255]
So IPv4+ addresses will be in the format of IPv4 addresses - it will end-user 
adoption of IPv4+ easier and also integration in the applicative layer easier 
(as application developers will only need to set that the first number can be 
higher instead to support a new format of [0-655365].[0-655365]v4 )



From: Mikael Abrahamsson 
Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 10:22 PM
To: Elad Cohen 
Cc: Brielle ; NANOG list 
Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

On Wed, 13 May 2020, Elad Cohen wrote:

> LOL funny seeing you changing your mind by 180 degrees when someone you
> know in the community writing to you the exact same thing.

"In addition, the sockets API should be extended to support IPxl with a
new socket domain PF_IPXL which is identical to PF_INET in every respect
save that the IP addresses are 8 bytes long instead of 4."

Do you realise that this means you're requiring changing *every*
socket-speaking application in the world?

It's taken us decades to get applications to use the new struct to support
IPv6+IPv4, resetting the timer back to 0 and starting over does not help
deployment. It just kicks it another 20 years down the line.

You're just inventing yet another incompatible standard and you have to
touch everything, DHCP, DNS all applications etc.

--
Mikael Abrahamssonemail: swm...@swm.pp.se

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Elad Cohen]

For you nothing will work.

From: Töma Gavrichenkov 
Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 10:39 PM
To: Elad Cohen 
Cc: David Hubbard ; NANOG 
Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

 Peace,

On Wed, May 13, 2020, 10:27 PM Elad Cohen 
mailto:e...@netstyle.io>> wrote:
So you didn't even test the implementation and didn't create it - so why you 
are writing "As a matter of fact". Which fact ? any evidence ?

No, Elad.  It is *you* who needs to prove that your concept works.  Unless you 
do it, it is wise (and generally acceptable in IETF and the likes) to assume it 
doesn't.

So far, you haven't done so.

Having said so, when it comes to your "anti-spoofing solution" (sic!), I even 
have dedicated certain time reviewing it and writing a response.  Based on the 
concepts I've seen, I honestly wonder if you ever got the appropriate 
engineering degree.

By the way, what you have published as your "biography" on the RIPE Exec Board 
candidate page doesn't quite help to sort out the latter statement.

--
Töma

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Töma Gavrichenkov]

 Peace,

On Wed, May 13, 2020, 10:27 PM Elad Cohen  wrote:

> So you didn't even test the implementation and didn't create it - so why
> you are writing "As a matter of fact". Which fact ? any evidence ?
>

No, Elad.  It is *you* who needs to prove that your concept works.  Unless
you do it, it is wise (and generally acceptable in IETF and the likes) to
assume it doesn't.

So far, you haven't done so.

Having said so, when it comes to your "anti-spoofing solution" (sic!), I
even have dedicated certain time reviewing it and writing a response.
Based on the concepts I've seen, I honestly wonder if you ever got the
appropriate engineering degree.

By the way, what you have published as your "biography" on the RIPE Exec
Board candidate page doesn't quite help to sort out the latter statement.

--
Töma

>

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Elad Cohen]

Do you realise that this means you're requiring changing *every*
socket-speaking application in the world?

Every internet host that will want to speak IPv4+ , will have an update (for 
example through the operating systems automatic updates mechanisms)



It's taken us decades to get applications to use the new struct to support
IPv6+IPv4, resetting the timer back to 0 and starting over does not help
deployment. It just kicks it another 20 years down the line.

I wrote about the usage of a roundtable in order to implement everything fast 
(the roundtable will include one representative from each of the operating 
system vendors, one representative from each of the routing equipment 
manufacturers and one representative from each of the 5 RIR's), if I will be 
elected to RIPE board I will do everything in my power so this roundtable will 
be formed fast and that the needed updates will be created fast. Each party in 
the roundtable will receive an amount of free IPv4 addresses from the new IPv4+ 
pool, and each ASN will also receive for example a /21 , home-routers and 
home-modems will not be needed to be updated and they will support IPv4+.



You're just inventing yet another incompatible standard and you have to
touch everything, DHCP, DNS all applications etc.

There is an adjustment to IPv4+ that the format of addresses will not be 
[0-655365].[0-655365]v4 - but it will be [256-511].[0-255].[0-255].[0-255]
So IPv4+ addresses will be in the format of IPv4 addresses - it will end-user 
adoption of IPv4+ easier and also integration in the applicative layer easier 
(as application developers will only need to set that the first number can be 
higher instead to support a new format of [0-655365].[0-655365]v4 )



From: Mikael Abrahamsson 
Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 10:22 PM
To: Elad Cohen 
Cc: Brielle ; NANOG list 
Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

On Wed, 13 May 2020, Elad Cohen wrote:

> LOL funny seeing you changing your mind by 180 degrees when someone you
> know in the community writing to you the exact same thing.

"In addition, the sockets API should be extended to support IPxl with a
new socket domain PF_IPXL which is identical to PF_INET in every respect
save that the IP addresses are 8 bytes long instead of 4."

Do you realise that this means you're requiring changing *every*
socket-speaking application in the world?

It's taken us decades to get applications to use the new struct to support
IPv6+IPv4, resetting the timer back to 0 and starting over does not help
deployment. It just kicks it another 20 years down the line.

You're just inventing yet another incompatible standard and you have to
touch everything, DHCP, DNS all applications etc.

--
Mikael Abrahamssonemail: swm...@swm.pp.se

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Bryan Fields]

On 5/13/20 2:42 PM, William Herrin wrote:
> It's clear IPv6 is the path forward. It was clear in 2007. But don't
> for a second believe that's because IPv4 could not have been upgraded
> in place. That's a failure of imagination.

IPv6 is the way forward, it has the buy in and damn near critical mass.

It dumps most of the extra crap in the headers we don't need anymore and the
alignment makes it rather easy to process in hardware.  This last part can't
be over emphasized; it's not just rewriting software, it's hardware upgrades
in most cases.  Remember doing v6 on a 7206?*  Punt it to the CPU and let it
fall over at 1000 pps, right?

I may have overstated the performance of that, but at the time we didn't care,
99.9% of all IPv6 was ping and traceroute.  When it becomes the preferred
delivery network for content, a software based router isn't going to cut it.


-- 
Bryan Fields

727-409-1194 - Voice
http://bryanfields.net

*it's not a dig at cisco or any vendor.  It was a thoroughly outdated router
10 years ago, and we can't expect it to have kept up.  Merely illustrating a
point.

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Elad Cohen]

So you didn't even test the implementation and didn't create it - so why you 
are writing "As a matter of fact". Which fact ? any evidence ?

From: Töma Gavrichenkov 
Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 10:25 PM
To: Elad Cohen 
Cc: David Hubbard ; NANOG 
Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

Peace,

On Wed, May 13, 2020, 10:07 PM Elad Cohen 
mailto:e...@netstyle.io>> wrote:
"As a matter of fact" - if you created an implementation please send me the 
sourcecode.

Wait, so you're coming up publicly with a proposal you don't even have a 
reference implementation for?!

Oh, my.

--
Töma

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Töma Gavrichenkov]

Peace,

On Wed, May 13, 2020, 10:07 PM Elad Cohen  wrote:

> "As a matter of fact" - if you created an implementation please send me
> the sourcecode.
>

Wait, so you're coming up publicly with a proposal you don't even have a
reference implementation for?!

Oh, my.

--
Töma

>

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Mikael Abrahamsson via NANOG]

On Wed, 13 May 2020, Elad Cohen wrote:

LOL funny seeing you changing your mind by 180 degrees when someone you 
know in the community writing to you the exact same thing.


"In addition, the sockets API should be extended to support IPxl with a 
new socket domain PF_IPXL which is identical to PF_INET in every respect 
save that the IP addresses are 8 bytes long instead of 4."


Do you realise that this means you're requiring changing *every* 
socket-speaking application in the world?


It's taken us decades to get applications to use the new struct to support 
IPv6+IPv4, resetting the timer back to 0 and starting over does not help 
deployment. It just kicks it another 20 years down the line.


You're just inventing yet another incompatible standard and you have to 
touch everything, DHCP, DNS all applications etc.


--
Mikael Abrahamssonemail: swm...@swm.pp.se

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Elad Cohen]

With all due respect, I was defamed in this "professional" environment and was 
called with antisemitic and racist titles - for many months and without a 
single proof against me, when some of the subscribers of this "professional" 
environment even enjoyed the antisemitic phrases with a popcorn, according to 
their own words.

From: Phil Smith 
Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2020 1:17 AM
To: Elad Cohen 
Cc: Brielle ; NANOG list 
Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

Yeah.

On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 12:17 PM Elad Cohen 
mailto:e...@netstyle.io>> wrote:
Professional ? with Coconut Guilmette ?

From: Phil Smith 
mailto:phillip.smith.adh...@gmail.com>>
Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2020 1:14 AM
To: Elad Cohen mailto:e...@netstyle.io>>
Cc: Brielle mailto:br...@2mbit.com>>; NANOG list 
mailto:nanog@nanog.org>>
Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

Gentleman, please this is a professional environment, lets keep it that way.

On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 12:13 PM Elad Cohen 
mailto:e...@netstyle.io>> wrote:
LOL funny seeing you changing your mind by 180 degrees when someone you know in 
the community writing to you the exact same thing.

Grow a backbone please.

From: NANOG mailto:nanog-boun...@nanog.org>> on behalf 
of Brielle mailto:br...@2mbit.com>>
Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 9:57 PM
To: NANOG list mailto:nanog@nanog.org>>
Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

On 5/13/2020 12:42 PM, William Herrin wrote:
> Hi Brielle,
>
> http://bill.herrin.us/network/ipxl.html
>
> Someone said much as you did way back in 2007. It bugged me, this
> defeatism that said there was no way IPv4 could have been
> incrementally updated to support more addresses, that a greenfield
> protocol was the only path forward. So I designed an upgrade factoring
> in the need for pre- and post-upgrade stacks and networks to
> interoperate over a period of years. It took all of 4 printed pages.
>
> It's clear IPv6 is the path forward. It was clear in 2007. But don't
> for a second believe that's because IPv4 could not have been upgraded
> in place. That's a failure of imagination.


Interesting, thank you for the insight and some detailed breakdown.  I'm
actually really glad someone with some more experience jumped in with
some actual background in this effort.

One thing that cropped up in my mind from the late 90s and AFAIK still
goes on today - isn't it pretty well documented that more then a small
number of 'professional' firewalls have a habit of just outright
discarding/rejecting/barfing on packets with options in them that they
don't recognize?

IE: PMTU/ECN blackhole redux.

Of course since IPx1 requires some stack upgrades, so that point is moot
really.

Sigh.  Back to the original thought that its just easier to go IPv6 then
try to 'fix' whats already out there.



--
Brielle Bruns
The Summit Open Source Development Group
http://www.sosdg.org/ http://www.ahbl.org

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Elad Cohen]

Professional ? with Coconut Guilmette ?

From: Phil Smith 
Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2020 1:14 AM
To: Elad Cohen 
Cc: Brielle ; NANOG list 
Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

Gentleman, please this is a professional environment, lets keep it that way.

On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 12:13 PM Elad Cohen 
mailto:e...@netstyle.io>> wrote:
LOL funny seeing you changing your mind by 180 degrees when someone you know in 
the community writing to you the exact same thing.

Grow a backbone please.

From: NANOG mailto:nanog-boun...@nanog.org>> on behalf 
of Brielle mailto:br...@2mbit.com>>
Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 9:57 PM
To: NANOG list mailto:nanog@nanog.org>>
Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

On 5/13/2020 12:42 PM, William Herrin wrote:
> Hi Brielle,
>
> http://bill.herrin.us/network/ipxl.html
>
> Someone said much as you did way back in 2007. It bugged me, this
> defeatism that said there was no way IPv4 could have been
> incrementally updated to support more addresses, that a greenfield
> protocol was the only path forward. So I designed an upgrade factoring
> in the need for pre- and post-upgrade stacks and networks to
> interoperate over a period of years. It took all of 4 printed pages.
>
> It's clear IPv6 is the path forward. It was clear in 2007. But don't
> for a second believe that's because IPv4 could not have been upgraded
> in place. That's a failure of imagination.


Interesting, thank you for the insight and some detailed breakdown.  I'm
actually really glad someone with some more experience jumped in with
some actual background in this effort.

One thing that cropped up in my mind from the late 90s and AFAIK still
goes on today - isn't it pretty well documented that more then a small
number of 'professional' firewalls have a habit of just outright
discarding/rejecting/barfing on packets with options in them that they
don't recognize?

IE: PMTU/ECN blackhole redux.

Of course since IPx1 requires some stack upgrades, so that point is moot
really.

Sigh.  Back to the original thought that its just easier to go IPv6 then
try to 'fix' whats already out there.



--
Brielle Bruns
The Summit Open Source Development Group
http://www.sosdg.org/ http://www.ahbl.org

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Elad Cohen]

Thank you for publishing it, please post also in your social accounts.



From: NANOG on behalf of Terrence Koeman
Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 9:54 PM
To: David Hubbard; nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election


If you thought IPv4+ was entertaining, check out his "solution" to packet 
spoofing:


https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/members-discuss/2020-April/003902.html


And SPAM:


https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/members-discuss/2020-April/003778.html


These should be submitted as RFCs, but on April 1st next year :)


This could only be funnier if he wasn't dead serious and attempting to gain 
power in RIPE right at this moment. Never in my life have I encountered such an 
obvious and clear example of the Dunning-Kruger effect[1]. He's entrenched 
right at the peak of "Mount Stupid"[2] (he appears committed to building a 
tower there).


Ref:

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

[2] 
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/46/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_Effect_01.svg

--
Regards,
   Terrence Koeman, PhD/MTh/BPsy
 Darkness Reigns (Holding) B.V.

Please quote relevant replies.
Spelling errors courtesy of my 'smart'phone.

From: David Hubbard 
Sent: Wednesday, 13 May 2020 19:19
To: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: [SPAM-MS] Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election


LOL the IPv4+ thing was a pretty entertaining read.  You clearly don’t have 
even a basic understanding of the v4 packet structure, or that the octet 
display concept is simply for human benefit.  IPv6 can be implemented with 
‘software updates’ too…

From: NANOG  on behalf of Elad Cohen 
Date: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 at 9:47 AM
To: "Ronald F. Guilmette" , "nanog@nanog.org" 

Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

Hello Everyone,

My apology for not providing an official response to the first "The Ronald 
Show" that took place here many months ago, I was out of hospital after full 
anesthesia and it took me months to get back to myself.

What was done towards me and what being done to me by Ronald is an intentional 
personal attack against me and I will explain.

I didn't agree to provide private business documents to the illegal anonymous 
organization "The Spamhaus Project" that they tried to extort from me - then I 
found out who are the real people behind the illegal anonymous organization 
"The Spamhaus Project" - and then they started to attack me (including here on 
Nanog, with false information, when I was out of hospital and wasn't in the 
condition to respond to them).

"The Spamhaus Project" is an illegal anonymous organization according to their 
own words in their own following presentation:

https://www.scribd.com/document/445894312/Spamhaus-Illegal-Private-Data-Violation

They wrote in it that they receive on a regular basis - massive amount of 
illegaly-obtained privacy data from their contacts in many internet companies 
and internet organizations - and then they share it in illegal way (without any 
warrant) with Law Enforcement Agencies - this is the reason that Law 
Enforcement Agencies are doing nothing regarding the illegal anonymous 
organization "The Spamhaus Project".

Ronald Guilmette is the front person of the illegal anonymous organization "The 
Spamhaus Project".



and that said legal counsel has then
proceeded to threaten various officials of the City of Cape Town,
South Africa with possible legal action if they do not relinquish
to him their rights in and title to the 165.25.0.0/16 block

This is a complete lie, in order to shame CoCT I will not share their internal 
correspondences. Anyone interested to know more information can email me 
directly.



"I am assured that at no time did the City of Cape Town ever sell, trade, or 
barter away their rights to this valuable IPv4 block"

Ronald is "assured" exactly as he is "assured" that all Dutch people are 
criminals and all Colombian network oeprators are criminals and all Chicago 
citizens are criminals according to his statements in the following links:
https://imgur.com/AcmgwEX
https://imgur.com/WUZvdNJ
https://imgur.com/a/Rzrbxkz

Ronald was called an antisemitic and a racist person here on Nanog in the 
following two links, by people which are not related to me:
https://imgur.com/AQCmZlk
https://imgur.com/a/Rzrbxkz


In the first "The Ronald Show" many months ago - Ronald called me in two 
antisemitic names that are being used to relate to Jews in Shakespeare 
literature (just like Ronald is relating to Shakespeare in 
https://imgur.com/AcmgwEX ) - as part of his defamation campaign towards me - 
none of you raised a voice and not only that but some Nanog subscribers enjoyed 
his racism and antisemitism (without a single proof against me) as was written 
here by t

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[William Herrin]

On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 11:58 AM Brielle  wrote:
> One thing that cropped up in my mind from the late 90s and AFAIK still
> goes on today - isn't it pretty well documented that more then a small
> number of 'professional' firewalls have a habit of just outright
> discarding/rejecting/barfing on packets with options in them that they
> don't recognize?

Hi Brielle,

That's not the half of it. Pull very hard on that thread and you'll
quickly find your way in to the PMTUD problem.

Path MTU discovery is the one place in the IP architecture which
abandons the end-to-end principle. If an intermediate device fails to
communicate to the sender that it's packet is too large for a hop, TCP
between the sender and receiver fails. In practice this happens a lot
and for many, many reasons. It's a very broken design.

Operationally, we address this with all sorts of tricks like assuring
the MTU on a link always supports a 1500 byte packet and rewriting the
TCP MSS option in TCP SYN packets whenever we know it won't. None of
these is a 100% solution so we still regularly field failure reports
where a user successfully connects to a service but no data is
transferred.

Dig in to how Amazon AWS deals with EC2 instances with a 9000 byte MTU
talking with the Internet some time. The MSS gets chopped in TCP and
AWS generates a local frag needed message for UDP.

Regards,
Bill Herrin


-- 
William Herrin
b...@herrin.us
https://bill.herrin.us/

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Elad Cohen]

LOL funny seeing you changing your mind by 180 degrees when someone you know in 
the community writing to you the exact same thing.

Grow a backbone please.

From: NANOG  on behalf of Brielle 
Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 9:57 PM
To: NANOG list 
Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

On 5/13/2020 12:42 PM, William Herrin wrote:
> Hi Brielle,
>
> http://bill.herrin.us/network/ipxl.html
>
> Someone said much as you did way back in 2007. It bugged me, this
> defeatism that said there was no way IPv4 could have been
> incrementally updated to support more addresses, that a greenfield
> protocol was the only path forward. So I designed an upgrade factoring
> in the need for pre- and post-upgrade stacks and networks to
> interoperate over a period of years. It took all of 4 printed pages.
>
> It's clear IPv6 is the path forward. It was clear in 2007. But don't
> for a second believe that's because IPv4 could not have been upgraded
> in place. That's a failure of imagination.


Interesting, thank you for the insight and some detailed breakdown.  I'm
actually really glad someone with some more experience jumped in with
some actual background in this effort.

One thing that cropped up in my mind from the late 90s and AFAIK still
goes on today - isn't it pretty well documented that more then a small
number of 'professional' firewalls have a habit of just outright
discarding/rejecting/barfing on packets with options in them that they
don't recognize?

IE: PMTU/ECN blackhole redux.

Of course since IPx1 requires some stack upgrades, so that point is moot
really.

Sigh.  Back to the original thought that its just easier to go IPv6 then
try to 'fix' whats already out there.



--
Brielle Bruns
The Summit Open Source Development Group
http://www.sosdg.org/ http://www.ahbl.org

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Elad Cohen]

"As a matter of fact" - if you created an implementation please send me the 
sourcecode.


From: Töma Gavrichenkov 
Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 10:02 PM
To: Elad Cohen 
Cc: David Hubbard ; NANOG 
Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

Peace,

On Wed, May 13, 2020, 8:33 PM Elad Cohen 
mailto:e...@netstyle.io>> wrote:
You clearly didn't understand how IPv4+ works.

That's because it doesn't work!

Just like the rest of your "solutions", as a matter of fact.

--
Töma

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Töma Gavrichenkov]

Peace,

On Wed, May 13, 2020, 8:33 PM Elad Cohen  wrote:

> You clearly didn't understand how IPv4+ works.
>

That's because it doesn't work!

Just like the rest of your "solutions", as a matter of fact.

--
Töma

>

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Brielle]

On 5/13/2020 12:42 PM, William Herrin wrote:

Hi Brielle,

http://bill.herrin.us/network/ipxl.html

Someone said much as you did way back in 2007. It bugged me, this
defeatism that said there was no way IPv4 could have been
incrementally updated to support more addresses, that a greenfield
protocol was the only path forward. So I designed an upgrade factoring
in the need for pre- and post-upgrade stacks and networks to
interoperate over a period of years. It took all of 4 printed pages.

It's clear IPv6 is the path forward. It was clear in 2007. But don't
for a second believe that's because IPv4 could not have been upgraded
in place. That's a failure of imagination.



Interesting, thank you for the insight and some detailed breakdown.  I'm 
actually really glad someone with some more experience jumped in with 
some actual background in this effort.


One thing that cropped up in my mind from the late 90s and AFAIK still 
goes on today - isn't it pretty well documented that more then a small 
number of 'professional' firewalls have a habit of just outright 
discarding/rejecting/barfing on packets with options in them that they 
don't recognize?


IE: PMTU/ECN blackhole redux.

Of course since IPx1 requires some stack upgrades, so that point is moot 
really.


Sigh.  Back to the original thought that its just easier to go IPv6 then 
try to 'fix' whats already out there.




--
Brielle Bruns
The Summit Open Source Development Group
http://www.sosdg.org/ http://www.ahbl.org

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Terrence Koeman]

If you thought IPv4+ was entertaining, check out his "solution" to packet 
spoofing:


https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/members-discuss/2020-April/003902.html


And SPAM:


https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/members-discuss/2020-April/003778.html


These should be submitted as RFCs, but on April 1st next year :)


This could only be funnier if he wasn't dead serious and attempting to gain 
power in RIPE right at this moment. Never in my life have I encountered such an 
obvious and clear example of the Dunning-Kruger effect[1]. He's entrenched 
right at the peak of "Mount Stupid"[2] (he appears committed to building a 
tower there).


Ref:

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

[2] 
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/46/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_Effect_01.svg


-- 
Regards,
   Terrence Koeman, PhD/MTh/BPsy
     Darkness Reigns (Holding) B.V.

Please quote relevant replies.
Spelling errors courtesy of my 'smart'phone.

From: David Hubbard 
Sent: Wednesday, 13 May 2020 19:19
To: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: [SPAM-MS] Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

> LOL the IPv4+ thing was a pretty entertaining read.  You clearly don’t have 
> even a basic understanding of the v4 packet structure, or that the octet 
> display concept is simply for human benefit.  IPv6 can be implemented with 
> ‘software updates’ too… 
>
> From: NANOG  on behalf of Elad Cohen 
>  
> Date: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 at 9:47 AM 
> To: "Ronald F. Guilmette" , "nanog@nanog.org" 
>  
> Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election 
>
> Hello Everyone, 
>
> My apology for not providing an official response to the first "The Ronald 
> Show" that took place here many months ago, I was out of hospital after full 
> anesthesia and it took me months to get back to myself. 
>
> What was done towards me and what being done to me by Ronald is an 
> intentional personal attack against me and I will explain. 
>
> I didn't agree to provide private business documents to the illegal anonymous 
> organization "The Spamhaus Project" that they tried to extort from me - then 
> I found out who are the real people behind the illegal anonymous organization 
> "The Spamhaus Project" - and then they started to attack me (including here 
> on Nanog, with false information, when I was out of hospital and wasn't in 
> the condition to respond to them). 
>
> "The Spamhaus Project" is an illegal anonymous organization according to 
> their own words in their own following presentation: 
>
> https://www.scribd.com/document/445894312/Spamhaus-Illegal-Private-Data-Violation
>  
>
> They wrote in it that they receive on a regular basis - massive amount of 
> illegaly-obtained privacy data from their contacts in many internet companies 
> and internet organizations - and then they share it in illegal way (without 
> any warrant) with Law Enforcement Agencies - this is the reason that Law 
> Enforcement Agencies are doing nothing regarding the illegal anonymous 
> organization "The Spamhaus Project". 
>
> Ronald Guilmette is the front person of the illegal anonymous organization 
> "The Spamhaus Project". 
>
>
>  
> and that said legal counsel has then 
> proceeded to threaten various officials of the City of Cape Town, 
> South Africa with possible legal action if they do not relinquish 
> to him their rights in and title to the 165.25.0.0/16 block 
>  
> This is a complete lie, in order to shame CoCT I will not share their 
> internal correspondences. Anyone interested to know more information can 
> email me directly. 
>
>
>  
> "I am assured that at no time did the City of Cape Town ever sell, trade, or 
> barter away their rights to this valuable IPv4 block" 
>  
> Ronald is "assured" exactly as he is "assured" that all Dutch people are 
> criminals and all Colombian network oeprators are criminals and all Chicago 
> citizens are criminals according to his statements in the following links: 
> https://imgur.com/AcmgwEX 
> https://imgur.com/WUZvdNJ 
> https://imgur.com/a/Rzrbxkz 
>
> Ronald was called an antisemitic and a racist person here on Nanog in the 
> following two links, by people which are not related to me: 
> https://imgur.com/AQCmZlk 
> https://imgur.com/a/Rzrbxkz 
>
>
> In the first "The Ronald Show" many months ago - Ronald called me in two 
> antisemitic names that are being used to relate to Jews in Shakespeare 
> literature (just like Ronald is relating to Shakespeare in 
> https://imgur.com/AcmgwEX ) - as part of his defamation campaign towards me - 
> none of you raised a voice and not o

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[William Herrin]

On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 10:57 AM Brielle  wrote:
> There's a fundamental lack of understanding from people on why you can't
> just 'bolt on' more addresses to IPv4.  Data structures in memory,
> software APIs and syscalls, hex notations, subnetting, route
> determination and propigation with internet routing protocols like BGP,
> hardware CAM, among many other things.

Hi Brielle,

http://bill.herrin.us/network/ipxl.html

Someone said much as you did way back in 2007. It bugged me, this
defeatism that said there was no way IPv4 could have been
incrementally updated to support more addresses, that a greenfield
protocol was the only path forward. So I designed an upgrade factoring
in the need for pre- and post-upgrade stacks and networks to
interoperate over a period of years. It took all of 4 printed pages.

It's clear IPv6 is the path forward. It was clear in 2007. But don't
for a second believe that's because IPv4 could not have been upgraded
in place. That's a failure of imagination.

I now return you to the scheduled brawl between Guilmette and Cohen.

Regards,
Bill Herrin


-- 
William Herrin
b...@herrin.us
https://bill.herrin.us/

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Elad Cohen]

We will take your path, lets wait 20 years for IPv6 to be fully deployed.

From: NANOG  on behalf of Brielle 
Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 9:16 PM
To: NANOG list 
Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

On 5/13/2020 12:09 PM, Elad Cohen wrote:
> -
> /There's a fundamental lack of understanding from people on why you can't
> just 'bolt on' more addresses to IPv4.  Data structures in memory,
> software APIs and syscalls, hex notations, subnetting, route
> determination and propigation with internet routing protocols like BGP,
> hardware CAM, among many other things./
> -
> All of it will be resolved with a software update, and BGP will be
> updated to support IPv4+ with backward compatibility.


You mean what everyone's already implemented with IPv6?  A complete
overhaul/replacement for IPv4, with all the changes already done and
fully supported in most major software packages, servers, routers, and
switches?

Enlighten me on why you are so obsessed with re-implementing IPv6 as IPv4+?


-
> /I'm not here to do your homework. Its not my fault you lack the
> understanding as to why people are openly mocking you here on your
> 'inventions'./
> -
> Nobody is "mocking" besides IPv6 fans that are against any solution
> until IPv6 will be fully deployed which can take more 20 years from now.


Yes, because the all powerful IPv6 cartel is working with the Lumber
Cartel to stifle your 'inventions' for 'solving' the world's IP and spam
problems.


--
Brielle Bruns
The Summit Open Source Development Group
http://www.sosdg.org/ http://www.ahbl.org

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Neil Hanlon]

I really love that the entire premise of this stems from that people doing
'software upgrades' to IPv4-2 - Electric Boogaloo would be any faster than
those same people just migrating to IPv6. Seriously hilarious.

If they won't move to something already supported on their software, why
would operators do software upgrades to buggy code.

On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 2:18 PM Brielle  wrote:

> On 5/13/2020 12:09 PM, Elad Cohen wrote:
> > -
> > /There's a fundamental lack of understanding from people on why you can't
> > just 'bolt on' more addresses to IPv4.  Data structures in memory,
> > software APIs and syscalls, hex notations, subnetting, route
> > determination and propigation with internet routing protocols like BGP,
> > hardware CAM, among many other things./
> > -
> > All of it will be resolved with a software update, and BGP will be
> > updated to support IPv4+ with backward compatibility.
>
>
> You mean what everyone's already implemented with IPv6?  A complete
> overhaul/replacement for IPv4, with all the changes already done and
> fully supported in most major software packages, servers, routers, and
> switches?
>
> Enlighten me on why you are so obsessed with re-implementing IPv6 as IPv4+?
>
>
> -
> > /I'm not here to do your homework. Its not my fault you lack the
> > understanding as to why people are openly mocking you here on your
> > 'inventions'./
> > -
> > Nobody is "mocking" besides IPv6 fans that are against any solution
> > until IPv6 will be fully deployed which can take more 20 years from now.
>
>
> Yes, because the all powerful IPv6 cartel is working with the Lumber
> Cartel to stifle your 'inventions' for 'solving' the world's IP and spam
> problems.
>
>
> --
> Brielle Bruns
> The Summit Open Source Development Group
> http://www.sosdg.org/ http://www.ahbl.org
>

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Brielle]

On 5/13/2020 12:09 PM, Elad Cohen wrote:

-
/There's a fundamental lack of understanding from people on why you can't
just 'bolt on' more addresses to IPv4.  Data structures in memory,
software APIs and syscalls, hex notations, subnetting, route
determination and propigation with internet routing protocols like BGP,
hardware CAM, among many other things./
-
All of it will be resolved with a software update, and BGP will be 
updated to support IPv4+ with backward compatibility.



You mean what everyone's already implemented with IPv6?  A complete 
overhaul/replacement for IPv4, with all the changes already done and 
fully supported in most major software packages, servers, routers, and 
switches?


Enlighten me on why you are so obsessed with re-implementing IPv6 as IPv4+?


-

/I'm not here to do your homework. Its not my fault you lack the
understanding as to why people are openly mocking you here on your
'inventions'./
-
Nobody is "mocking" besides IPv6 fans that are against any solution 
until IPv6 will be fully deployed which can take more 20 years from now.



Yes, because the all powerful IPv6 cartel is working with the Lumber 
Cartel to stifle your 'inventions' for 'solving' the world's IP and spam 
problems.



--
Brielle Bruns
The Summit Open Source Development Group
http://www.sosdg.org/ http://www.ahbl.org

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Elad Cohen]

-
There's a fundamental lack of understanding from people on why you can't
just 'bolt on' more addresses to IPv4.  Data structures in memory,
software APIs and syscalls, hex notations, subnetting, route
determination and propigation with internet routing protocols like BGP,
hardware CAM, among many other things.
-
All of it will be resolved with a software update, and BGP will be updated to 
support IPv4+ with backward compatibility.


-
I'm not here to do your homework. Its not my fault you lack the
understanding as to why people are openly mocking you here on your
'inventions'.
-
Nobody is "mocking" besides IPv6 fans that are against any solution until IPv6 
will be fully deployed which can take more 20 years from now.


From: NANOG  on behalf of Brielle 
Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 8:56 PM
To: NANOG list 
Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

Meant to send this to the list, but hit reply instead of reply to list.
Oops.  Fixed.

On 5/13/2020 11:35 AM, Elad Cohen wrote:
> The principals in IPv4+ weren't suggested anywhere else, can you provide
> a link ? instead of misleading the readers again.
>

Those of us who have actually been involved here and elsewhere for a
very long time have seen people bring it up every year.

Their ultimate solution to the IPv4 issue.

Like I said, we all just chuckle at it whenever anyone makes a big deal
about it.

There's a fundamental lack of understanding from people on why you can't
just 'bolt on' more addresses to IPv4.  Data structures in memory,
software APIs and syscalls, hex notations, subnetting, route
determination and propigation with internet routing protocols like BGP,
hardware CAM, among many other things.

> Not even a single fact in your reply, only hollow big words.

I'm not here to do your homework. Its not my fault you lack the
understanding as to why people are openly mocking you here on your
'inventions'.


--
Brielle Bruns
The Summit Open Source Development Group
http://www.sosdg.org/ http://www.ahbl.org

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Brielle]

Meant to send this to the list, but hit reply instead of reply to list. 
Oops.  Fixed.


On 5/13/2020 11:35 AM, Elad Cohen wrote:
The principals in IPv4+ weren't suggested anywhere else, can you provide 
a link ? instead of misleading the readers again.




Those of us who have actually been involved here and elsewhere for a 
very long time have seen people bring it up every year.


Their ultimate solution to the IPv4 issue.

Like I said, we all just chuckle at it whenever anyone makes a big deal 
about it.


There's a fundamental lack of understanding from people on why you can't 
just 'bolt on' more addresses to IPv4.  Data structures in memory, 
software APIs and syscalls, hex notations, subnetting, route 
determination and propigation with internet routing protocols like BGP, 
hardware CAM, among many other things.



Not even a single fact in your reply, only hollow big words.


I'm not here to do your homework. Its not my fault you lack the 
understanding as to why people are openly mocking you here on your 
'inventions'.



--
Brielle Bruns
The Summit Open Source Development Group
http://www.sosdg.org/ http://www.ahbl.org

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Elad Cohen]

Spamhaus is an illegal anonymous organization according to their own words in 
their own following private presentation:

https://www.scribd.com/document/445894312/Spamhaus-Illegal-Private-Data-Violation

When they sued in court it wasn't related to them providing massive amount of 
illgaly-obtained privacy data on a regular basis to Law Enforcement Agencies 
(without any warrant), please don't mislead the readers.

The principals in IPv4+ weren't suggested anywhere else, can you provide a link 
? instead of misleading the readers again.

Not even a single fact in your reply, only hollow big words.



From: NANOG  on behalf of Brielle 
Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 8:28 PM
To: nanog@nanog.org 
Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

Dude, you sound like a rambling loon in this e-mail.

Hate to break it to you, but there's nothing illegal about Spamhaus or
what it does.  This has been proven in court cases before.

Your supposed 'invention' for IPv4+ has been suggested before many times
publicly in different variations (like for example, .999), and usually
laughed at, because it lacks a fundamental understanding of how IPv4 was
designed and why it was designed that way.

Your anti-spam 'solutions' are just another "ultimate solution to the
spam problem" that isn't going to work, and that quite a few us of laugh
at every time someone brings up their own version of it.

Being a former DNSbl maintainer, I've seen e-mails like this hundreds of
times from people like you.  Some things never change, do they?


On 5/13/2020 7:46 AM, Elad Cohen wrote:
> Hello Everyone,
>
> My apology for not providing an official response to the first "The
> Ronald Show" that took place here many months ago, I was out of hospital
> after full anesthesia and it took me months to get back to myself.
>
> What was done towards me and what being done to me by Ronald is an
> intentional personal attack against me and I will explain.
>
> I didn't agree to provide private business documents to the illegal
> anonymous organization "The Spamhaus Project" that they tried to extort
> from me - then I found out who are the real people behind the illegal
> anonymous organization "The Spamhaus Project" - and then they started to
> attack me (including here on Nanog, with false information, when I was
> out of hospital and wasn't in the condition to respond to them).
>
> "The Spamhaus Project" is an illegal anonymous organization according to
> their own words in their own following presentation:
>
> https://www.scribd.com/document/445894312/Spamhaus-Illegal-Private-Data-Violation
>
> They wrote in it that they receive on a regular basis - massive amount
> of illegaly-obtained privacy data from their contacts in many internet
> companies and internet organizations - and then they share it in illegal
> way (without any warrant) with Law Enforcement Agencies - this is the
> reason that Law Enforcement Agencies are doing nothing regarding the
> illegal anonymous organization "The Spamhaus Project".
>
> Ronald Guilmette is the front person of the illegal anonymous
> organization "The Spamhaus Project".
>
>
> 
> /and that said legal counsel has then
> /
> /proceeded to threaten various officials of the City of Cape Town,
> /
> /South Africa with possible legal action if they do not relinquish
> /
> /to him their rights in and title to the 165.25.0.0/16 block/
> 
> This is a complete lie, in order to shame CoCT I will not share their
> internal correspondences. Anyone interested to know more information can
> email me directly.
>
>
> 
> /"I am assured that at no time did the City of Cape Town ever sell,
> trade, or barter away their rights to this valuable IPv4 block"/
> 
> Ronald is "assured" exactly as he is "assured" that all Dutch people are
> criminals and all Colombian network oeprators are criminals and all
> Chicago citizens are criminals according to his statements in the
> following links:
> https://imgur.com/AcmgwEX
> https://imgur.com/WUZvdNJ
> https://imgur.com/a/Rzrbxkz
>
> Ronald was called an antisemitic and a racist person here on Nanog in
> the following two links, by people which are not related to me:
> https://imgur.com/AQCmZlk
> https://imgur.com/a/Rzrbxkz
>
>
> In the first "The Ronald Show" many months ago - Ronald called me in two
> antisemitic names that are being used to relate to Jews in Shakespeare
> literature (just like Ronald is relating to Shakespeare in
> https://imgur.com/AcmgwEX ) - as part of his defamation campaign towards
> me - none of you raised a voice and not only that but some Nanog
> subscribers enjoyed his racism and antisemitism (wi

Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

[Elad Cohen]

LOL at people that are against anything besides IPv6 when it will take much 
much more time until IPv6 will be fully deployed. You clearly didn't understand 
how IPv4+ works.



From: NANOG  on behalf of David Hubbard 

Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 8:17 PM
To: nanog@nanog.org 
Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election


LOL the IPv4+ thing was a pretty entertaining read.  You clearly don’t have 
even a basic understanding of the v4 packet structure, or that the octet 
display concept is simply for human benefit.  IPv6 can be implemented with 
‘software updates’ too…



From: NANOG  on behalf of Elad Cohen 
Date: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 at 9:47 AM
To: "Ronald F. Guilmette" , "nanog@nanog.org" 

Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election



Hello Everyone,



My apology for not providing an official response to the first "The Ronald 
Show" that took place here many months ago, I was out of hospital after full 
anesthesia and it took me months to get back to myself.



What was done towards me and what being done to me by Ronald is an intentional 
personal attack against me and I will explain.



I didn't agree to provide private business documents to the illegal anonymous 
organization "The Spamhaus Project" that they tried to extort from me - then I 
found out who are the real people behind the illegal anonymous organization 
"The Spamhaus Project" - and then they started to attack me (including here on 
Nanog, with false information, when I was out of hospital and wasn't in the 
condition to respond to them).



"The Spamhaus Project" is an illegal anonymous organization according to their 
own words in their own following presentation:



https://www.scribd.com/document/445894312/Spamhaus-Illegal-Private-Data-Violation



They wrote in it that they receive on a regular basis - massive amount of 
illegaly-obtained privacy data from their contacts in many internet companies 
and internet organizations - and then they share it in illegal way (without any 
warrant) with Law Enforcement Agencies - this is the reason that Law 
Enforcement Agencies are doing nothing regarding the illegal anonymous 
organization "The Spamhaus Project".



Ronald Guilmette is the front person of the illegal anonymous organization "The 
Spamhaus Project".







and that said legal counsel has then

proceeded to threaten various officials of the City of Cape Town,

South Africa with possible legal action if they do not relinquish

to him their rights in and title to the 165.25.0.0/16 block



This is a complete lie, in order to shame CoCT I will not share their internal 
correspondences. Anyone interested to know more information can email me 
directly.







"I am assured that at no time did the City of Cape Town ever sell, trade, or 
barter away their rights to this valuable IPv4 block"



Ronald is "assured" exactly as he is "assured" that all Dutch people are 
criminals and all Colombian network oeprators are criminals and all Chicago 
citizens are criminals according to his statements in the following links:

https://imgur.com/AcmgwEX

https://imgur.com/WUZvdNJ

https://imgur.com/a/Rzrbxkz



Ronald was called an antisemitic and a racist person here on Nanog in the 
following two links, by people which are not related to me:

https://imgur.com/AQCmZlk

https://imgur.com/a/Rzrbxkz





In the first "The Ronald Show" many months ago - Ronald called me in two 
antisemitic names that are being used to relate to Jews in Shakespeare 
literature (just like Ronald is relating to Shakespeare in 
https://imgur.com/AcmgwEX ) - as part of his defamation campaign towards me - 
none of you raised a voice and not only that but some Nanog subscribers enjoyed 
his racism and antisemitism (without a single proof against me) as was written 
here by them (with a popcorn).



The "source" in "The Spamhaus Project" that supported and pumped Ronald 
Imagination is the criminal of the anonymous twitter account: 
https://twitter.com/underthebreach , that person according to his own words in 
his own criminal anonymous twitter account - is a master of cyber influence 
operations (meaning to influence people without a single proof) - that person 
is also an employee of the Israeli-based company GeoEdge and they are a direct 
competitor of a company that used the netblocks that Ronald attacked - not only 
that but Ronald also attacked another Israeli-based company called Divineworks 
(here in Nanog) and they are also a direct competitor of the Israeli-based 
company GeoEdge. What was done here is a cyber influence operation without a 
single proof because of a business competition.



That criminal https://twitter.com/underthebreach which is a member of "The 
Spamhaus Project" and pumped Ronald Imagination - is not the only person which 
is abus