Re: [neonixie-l] SP-252 Seeking drawings

[Richard Scales]

Many thanks again,
@Christian - that is a sound plan, will do/

@Gregbert - noted though I never solder these things in, I make sockets for 
them every time which makes insertion/removal and replacement relatively 
easy. I purchase 40 way turned pin sockets and break the pin sockets out of 
them to fit into the right sized hole on the PCB and I always make an 
oversized hole for the 'glasshole'.

I've already made footprints for many different displays including SP-33x, 
SP-35x,  SP-101 and  SP-151 - made as sockets.


[image: QQPic.JPG]

This is the display board for a different clock that uses SP-332 displays.

 - Richard


On Sunday, 5 November 2023 at 23:06:21 UTC gregebert wrote:

> Make sure the holes for the display pins are larger than minimum; I made 
> my own footprint for the SP-151 and it was difficult to get the pins fully 
> aligned when trying to solder it in. Larger holes makes it much easier to 
> insert the display for soldering.
>
> Also beware of the *glasshole*, as I call it. It's the fill-tip when the 
> display gets gassed-up, and you need to make the PCB hole large enough to 
> accommodate slight manufacturing variances in diameter and location. I 
> think I used a 5mm hole, and keep traces spaced away as much as possible in 
> case you need to make the hole larger. I didn't have any glasshole  
> problems on my boards.
>
> On Sunday, November 5, 2023 at 9:35:11 AM UTC-8 Christian Riise Wagner 
> wrote:
>
>> Can't help you with better drawings, but I can recommend 3D-printing a 
>> small piece with the holes at the planned locations to verify the fit 
>> before sending off the board for production. I've used this technique 
>> myself a couple of times.
>> søndag den 5. november 2023 kl. 16.12.59 UTC+1 skrev Dekatron42:
>>
>>> Have you asked Dieter if he has a better scan that he can share?
>>>
>>> /Martin
>>>
>>> On Sunday, 5 November 2023 at 05:30:53 UTC+1 Richard Scales wrote:
>>>
 Thank you Benoit but I need actual data to make a footprint to use in 
 PCB design application.

 I think I'm mostly there but was really seeking a better picture so I 
 can confirm the accuracy of the supplied numbers and to which pins they 
 apply - some of the ones buried in the centre of the display are not so 
 clearly linked to the numbers at the side.
  - Richard


 On Saturday, 4 November 2023 at 14:37:27 UTC Benoit Tourret wrote:

> try to find 0.5 mm inner diameter pipe, 10cm long, fit all the pins, 
> pour some silicone, you should have a good representation of the 
> socket... 
> if you didn't forgot to add some wax or similar to unmold the silicon.
> the more parallel your pipes will be, the more accurate your print 
> will be.
> for a good print, the end of the pins is not important, the most 
> important is the place they have at the beginning, the nearest to the 
> display. without sacrifying a display; I don't see any other way to have 
> a 
> good measurement.
>
> Le samedi 4 novembre 2023 à 10:04:19 UTC+1, Richard Scales a écrit :
>
>> Hello, there are indeed a few the line up - it's the ones that don't 
>> that worry me the most!
>>  - RIchard
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, 4 November 2023 at 08:54:44 UTC Benoit Tourret wrote:
>>
>>> Hello Richard,
>>>
>>> have a look on the SP-351, 
>>>
>>> https://www.tube-tester.com/sites/nixie/data/datasheets/SP-351_SP-352-drawing-01.jpg
>>> [image: SP-351_SP-352-drawing-01.jpg]
>>> not the same number of digit, but some of the pins should be 
>>> identical...
>>> On my SP-356, there is 0 aligned pins on a diagonal way. only in 
>>> horizontal.
>>>
>>> Le samedi 4 novembre 2023 à 07:31:29 UTC+1, Richard Scales a écrit :
>>>
 I used to so that but it relies on all the pins being straight and 
 for this particular display - there are 30+ pins in a very small space 
 - 
 the more accurate the better - especially when it finally comes to 
 plugging 
 the things in!
 [image: TTPicture.JPG][image: PPpicture.JPG]

 Perhaps the differences are so subtle it's not worth worrying 
 about. It's like staring at constellations! This group on the left 
 seems a 
 little out of alignment when compared with the image from Sperry, it's 
 counterpart in the image for the character on the right looks more 
 like my 
 chart - yet - from the data I have logged - the chart shows similar 
 groupings for left and right - is their image wrong ? is their data 
 wrong?

 [image: DDpicture.JPG]

 When daylight comes I'll get eyes on the physical display though I 
 fear at my age - that may be the least helpful method!

 - Richard

 On Saturday, 4 November 2023 at 06:09:25 UTC Audrey wrote:

Re: [neonixie-l] SP-252 Seeking drawings

[gregebert]

Make sure the holes for the display pins are larger than minimum; I made my 
own footprint for the SP-151 and it was difficult to get the pins fully 
aligned when trying to solder it in. Larger holes makes it much easier to 
insert the display for soldering.

Also beware of the *glasshole*, as I call it. It's the fill-tip when the 
display gets gassed-up, and you need to make the PCB hole large enough to 
accommodate slight manufacturing variances in diameter and location. I 
think I used a 5mm hole, and keep traces spaced away as much as possible in 
case you need to make the hole larger. I didn't have any glasshole  
problems on my boards.

On Sunday, November 5, 2023 at 9:35:11 AM UTC-8 Christian Riise Wagner 
wrote:

> Can't help you with better drawings, but I can recommend 3D-printing a 
> small piece with the holes at the planned locations to verify the fit 
> before sending off the board for production. I've used this technique 
> myself a couple of times.
> søndag den 5. november 2023 kl. 16.12.59 UTC+1 skrev Dekatron42:
>
>> Have you asked Dieter if he has a better scan that he can share?
>>
>> /Martin
>>
>> On Sunday, 5 November 2023 at 05:30:53 UTC+1 Richard Scales wrote:
>>
>>> Thank you Benoit but I need actual data to make a footprint to use in 
>>> PCB design application.
>>>
>>> I think I'm mostly there but was really seeking a better picture so I 
>>> can confirm the accuracy of the supplied numbers and to which pins they 
>>> apply - some of the ones buried in the centre of the display are not so 
>>> clearly linked to the numbers at the side.
>>>  - Richard
>>>
>>>
>>> On Saturday, 4 November 2023 at 14:37:27 UTC Benoit Tourret wrote:
>>>
 try to find 0.5 mm inner diameter pipe, 10cm long, fit all the pins, 
 pour some silicone, you should have a good representation of the socket... 
 if you didn't forgot to add some wax or similar to unmold the silicon.
 the more parallel your pipes will be, the more accurate your print will 
 be.
 for a good print, the end of the pins is not important, the most 
 important is the place they have at the beginning, the nearest to the 
 display. without sacrifying a display; I don't see any other way to have a 
 good measurement.

 Le samedi 4 novembre 2023 à 10:04:19 UTC+1, Richard Scales a écrit :

> Hello, there are indeed a few the line up - it's the ones that don't 
> that worry me the most!
>  - RIchard
>
>
> On Saturday, 4 November 2023 at 08:54:44 UTC Benoit Tourret wrote:
>
>> Hello Richard,
>>
>> have a look on the SP-351, 
>>
>> https://www.tube-tester.com/sites/nixie/data/datasheets/SP-351_SP-352-drawing-01.jpg
>> [image: SP-351_SP-352-drawing-01.jpg]
>> not the same number of digit, but some of the pins should be 
>> identical...
>> On my SP-356, there is 0 aligned pins on a diagonal way. only in 
>> horizontal.
>>
>> Le samedi 4 novembre 2023 à 07:31:29 UTC+1, Richard Scales a écrit :
>>
>>> I used to so that but it relies on all the pins being straight and 
>>> for this particular display - there are 30+ pins in a very small space 
>>> - 
>>> the more accurate the better - especially when it finally comes to 
>>> plugging 
>>> the things in!
>>> [image: TTPicture.JPG][image: PPpicture.JPG]
>>>
>>> Perhaps the differences are so subtle it's not worth worrying about. 
>>> It's like staring at constellations! This group on the left seems a 
>>> little 
>>> out of alignment when compared with the image from Sperry, it's 
>>> counterpart 
>>> in the image for the character on the right looks more like my chart - 
>>> yet 
>>> - from the data I have logged - the chart shows similar groupings for 
>>> left 
>>> and right - is their image wrong ? is their data wrong?
>>>
>>> [image: DDpicture.JPG]
>>>
>>> When daylight comes I'll get eyes on the physical display though I 
>>> fear at my age - that may be the least helpful method!
>>>
>>> - Richard
>>>
>>> On Saturday, 4 November 2023 at 06:09:25 UTC Audrey wrote:
>>>
 You could scan the bottom of one using a scanner and convert to 
 inches/mm using the DPI.

 On Sat, Nov 4, 2023, 2:04 AM Richard Scales  
 wrote:

> I'm looking for any details of the pinout of the Sperry / Beckman 
> SP-252 Multi Segment display which are any better than the one that I 
> found 
> over at tube-tester.com:
> https://tube-tester.com/sites/nixie/data/SP-252/sp-252.htm
>
> I'm making a footprint and need to get the pin positions as 
> accurate as possible. My usual process for this is to copy the pin 
> positions into a spreadsheet and make a scattergram which should 
> represent 
> the pin positions. 
>
> This allows me to spot any 

Re: [neonixie-l] SP-252 Seeking drawings

[Christian Riise Wagner]

Can't help you with better drawings, but I can recommend 3D-printing a 
small piece with the holes at the planned locations to verify the fit 
before sending off the board for production. I've used this technique 
myself a couple of times.
søndag den 5. november 2023 kl. 16.12.59 UTC+1 skrev Dekatron42:

> Have you asked Dieter if he has a better scan that he can share?
>
> /Martin
>
> On Sunday, 5 November 2023 at 05:30:53 UTC+1 Richard Scales wrote:
>
>> Thank you Benoit but I need actual data to make a footprint to use in PCB 
>> design application.
>>
>> I think I'm mostly there but was really seeking a better picture so I can 
>> confirm the accuracy of the supplied numbers and to which pins they apply - 
>> some of the ones buried in the centre of the display are not so clearly 
>> linked to the numbers at the side.
>>  - Richard
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, 4 November 2023 at 14:37:27 UTC Benoit Tourret wrote:
>>
>>> try to find 0.5 mm inner diameter pipe, 10cm long, fit all the pins, 
>>> pour some silicone, you should have a good representation of the socket... 
>>> if you didn't forgot to add some wax or similar to unmold the silicon.
>>> the more parallel your pipes will be, the more accurate your print will 
>>> be.
>>> for a good print, the end of the pins is not important, the most 
>>> important is the place they have at the beginning, the nearest to the 
>>> display. without sacrifying a display; I don't see any other way to have a 
>>> good measurement.
>>>
>>> Le samedi 4 novembre 2023 à 10:04:19 UTC+1, Richard Scales a écrit :
>>>
 Hello, there are indeed a few the line up - it's the ones that don't 
 that worry me the most!
  - RIchard


 On Saturday, 4 November 2023 at 08:54:44 UTC Benoit Tourret wrote:

> Hello Richard,
>
> have a look on the SP-351, 
>
> https://www.tube-tester.com/sites/nixie/data/datasheets/SP-351_SP-352-drawing-01.jpg
> [image: SP-351_SP-352-drawing-01.jpg]
> not the same number of digit, but some of the pins should be 
> identical...
> On my SP-356, there is 0 aligned pins on a diagonal way. only in 
> horizontal.
>
> Le samedi 4 novembre 2023 à 07:31:29 UTC+1, Richard Scales a écrit :
>
>> I used to so that but it relies on all the pins being straight and 
>> for this particular display - there are 30+ pins in a very small space - 
>> the more accurate the better - especially when it finally comes to 
>> plugging 
>> the things in!
>> [image: TTPicture.JPG][image: PPpicture.JPG]
>>
>> Perhaps the differences are so subtle it's not worth worrying about. 
>> It's like staring at constellations! This group on the left seems a 
>> little 
>> out of alignment when compared with the image from Sperry, it's 
>> counterpart 
>> in the image for the character on the right looks more like my chart - 
>> yet 
>> - from the data I have logged - the chart shows similar groupings for 
>> left 
>> and right - is their image wrong ? is their data wrong?
>>
>> [image: DDpicture.JPG]
>>
>> When daylight comes I'll get eyes on the physical display though I 
>> fear at my age - that may be the least helpful method!
>>
>> - Richard
>>
>> On Saturday, 4 November 2023 at 06:09:25 UTC Audrey wrote:
>>
>>> You could scan the bottom of one using a scanner and convert to 
>>> inches/mm using the DPI.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Nov 4, 2023, 2:04 AM Richard Scales  
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I'm looking for any details of the pinout of the Sperry / Beckman 
 SP-252 Multi Segment display which are any better than the one that I 
 found 
 over at tube-tester.com:
 https://tube-tester.com/sites/nixie/data/SP-252/sp-252.htm

 I'm making a footprint and need to get the pin positions as 
 accurate as possible. My usual process for this is to copy the pin 
 positions into a spreadsheet and make a scattergram which should 
 represent 
 the pin positions. 

 This allows me to spot any obvious blunders. It's just that the 
 image I have is not that clear and there is some information missing 
 (IMHO) 
 so if anyone can point me to anything better I would be most grateful.

 I could not find it in the Sperry Information Systems catalogue for 
 which I already have a PDF.
 - Richard

 -- 
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
 Groups "neonixie-l" group.
 To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, 
 send an email to neonixie-l+...@googlegroups.com.
 To view this discussion on the web, visit 
 https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/171bf56b-7195-454e-8ebb-2ef9aceb2e78n%40googlegroups.com
  
 

Re: [neonixie-l] SP-252 Seeking drawings

[Dekatron42]

Have you asked Dieter if he has a better scan that he can share?

/Martin

On Sunday, 5 November 2023 at 05:30:53 UTC+1 Richard Scales wrote:

> Thank you Benoit but I need actual data to make a footprint to use in PCB 
> design application.
>
> I think I'm mostly there but was really seeking a better picture so I can 
> confirm the accuracy of the supplied numbers and to which pins they apply - 
> some of the ones buried in the centre of the display are not so clearly 
> linked to the numbers at the side.
>  - Richard
>
>
> On Saturday, 4 November 2023 at 14:37:27 UTC Benoit Tourret wrote:
>
>> try to find 0.5 mm inner diameter pipe, 10cm long, fit all the pins, pour 
>> some silicone, you should have a good representation of the socket... if 
>> you didn't forgot to add some wax or similar to unmold the silicon.
>> the more parallel your pipes will be, the more accurate your print will 
>> be.
>> for a good print, the end of the pins is not important, the most 
>> important is the place they have at the beginning, the nearest to the 
>> display. without sacrifying a display; I don't see any other way to have a 
>> good measurement.
>>
>> Le samedi 4 novembre 2023 à 10:04:19 UTC+1, Richard Scales a écrit :
>>
>>> Hello, there are indeed a few the line up - it's the ones that don't 
>>> that worry me the most!
>>>  - RIchard
>>>
>>>
>>> On Saturday, 4 November 2023 at 08:54:44 UTC Benoit Tourret wrote:
>>>
 Hello Richard,

 have a look on the SP-351, 

 https://www.tube-tester.com/sites/nixie/data/datasheets/SP-351_SP-352-drawing-01.jpg
 [image: SP-351_SP-352-drawing-01.jpg]
 not the same number of digit, but some of the pins should be 
 identical...
 On my SP-356, there is 0 aligned pins on a diagonal way. only in 
 horizontal.

 Le samedi 4 novembre 2023 à 07:31:29 UTC+1, Richard Scales a écrit :

> I used to so that but it relies on all the pins being straight and for 
> this particular display - there are 30+ pins in a very small space - the 
> more accurate the better - especially when it finally comes to plugging 
> the 
> things in!
> [image: TTPicture.JPG][image: PPpicture.JPG]
>
> Perhaps the differences are so subtle it's not worth worrying about. 
> It's like staring at constellations! This group on the left seems a 
> little 
> out of alignment when compared with the image from Sperry, it's 
> counterpart 
> in the image for the character on the right looks more like my chart - 
> yet 
> - from the data I have logged - the chart shows similar groupings for 
> left 
> and right - is their image wrong ? is their data wrong?
>
> [image: DDpicture.JPG]
>
> When daylight comes I'll get eyes on the physical display though I 
> fear at my age - that may be the least helpful method!
>
> - Richard
>
> On Saturday, 4 November 2023 at 06:09:25 UTC Audrey wrote:
>
>> You could scan the bottom of one using a scanner and convert to 
>> inches/mm using the DPI.
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 4, 2023, 2:04 AM Richard Scales  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm looking for any details of the pinout of the Sperry / Beckman 
>>> SP-252 Multi Segment display which are any better than the one that I 
>>> found 
>>> over at tube-tester.com:
>>> https://tube-tester.com/sites/nixie/data/SP-252/sp-252.htm
>>>
>>> I'm making a footprint and need to get the pin positions as accurate 
>>> as possible. My usual process for this is to copy the pin positions 
>>> into a 
>>> spreadsheet and make a scattergram which should represent the pin 
>>> positions. 
>>>
>>> This allows me to spot any obvious blunders. It's just that the 
>>> image I have is not that clear and there is some information missing 
>>> (IMHO) 
>>> so if anyone can point me to anything better I would be most grateful.
>>>
>>> I could not find it in the Sperry Information Systems catalogue for 
>>> which I already have a PDF.
>>> - Richard
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "neonixie-l" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, 
>>> send an email to neonixie-l+...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web, visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/171bf56b-7195-454e-8ebb-2ef9aceb2e78n%40googlegroups.com
>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"neonixie-l" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web, visit