>> The authors of yang-data-ext met today to discuss how to move this
>> draft forward. After about an hour, we decided that the best course
>> of action is to:
>>
>> * clarify RFC 8040 rc:yang-data for the zerotouch use case
>> - and update the zerotouch draft to use rc:yang-data
>>
On 6/25/18 14:56, Kent Watsen wrote:
>
> The authors of yang-data-ext met today to discuss how to move this draft
> forward. After about an hour, we decided that the best course of action is
> to:
>
> * clarify RFC 8040 rc:yang-data for the zerotouch use case
> - and update the
The authors of yang-data-ext met today to discuss how to move this draft
forward. After about an hour, we decided that the best course of action is to:
* clarify RFC 8040 rc:yang-data for the zerotouch use case
- and update the zerotouch draft to use rc:yang-data
* request this WG
Juergen Schoenwaelder writes:
> On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 03:58:33PM +, Kent Watsen wrote:
>> [resurrecting this thread]
>>
>> Currently the zerotouch draft has a normative reference to this draft.
>> I will this week post an update to the zerotouch draft to resolve the
>> netconf list thread
On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 03:58:33PM +, Kent Watsen wrote:
> [resurrecting this thread]
>
> Currently the zerotouch draft has a normative reference to this draft.
> I will this week post an update to the zerotouch draft to resolve the
> netconf list thread "a couple zerotouch-21 issues". It
[resurrecting this thread]
Currently the zerotouch draft has a normative reference to this draft.
I will this week post an update to the zerotouch draft to resolve the
netconf list thread "a couple zerotouch-21 issues". It would be easy
for me to also switch back to using rc:yang-data, but I
On 27/04/18 12:03, Martin Bjorklund wrote:
>>> This is true. We used to do this before yang-data was available.
>> If I remember correctly, the stuff was inside groupings that were not used
>> anywhere.
> Which doesn't quite work, since no namespace is attached to the nodes.
>
True, but that is
On 27/04/18 12:03, Martin Bjorklund wrote:
>> It would be great to remove NETCONF specifics from YANG and I'd be willing to
>> contribute to this work.
> This is a different topic though.
+1 and count me in, please.
Thanks,
Robert
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On Wed, 2018-05-02 at 11:36 +0200, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote:
> On Wed, May 02, 2018 at 11:25:06AM +0200, Martin Bjorklund wrote:
> >
> > The primary use case is not "generic RPC messages", but standalone
> > instance documents, error-info structures, etc.
> >
> > > This doesn't seem to be a
On Wed, May 02, 2018 at 11:25:06AM +0200, Martin Bjorklund wrote:
>
> The primary use case is not "generic RPC messages", but standalone
> instance documents, error-info structures, etc.
>
> > This doesn't seem to be a fundamental change in YANG's scope, or
> > architecture.
The proper solution
Robert Wilton wrote:
>
>
> On 02/05/2018 08:25, Martin Bjorklund wrote:
> > Andy Bierman wrote:
> >> On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 7:09 AM, Ladislav Lhotka
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Andy Bierman writes:
> >>>
> On Fri, Apr
On 02/05/2018 08:25, Martin Bjorklund wrote:
Andy Bierman wrote:
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 7:09 AM, Ladislav Lhotka wrote:
Andy Bierman writes:
On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 8:13 AM, Ladislav Lhotka wrote:
On Fri,
Ladislav Lhotka wrote:
> On Wed, 2018-05-02 at 09:16 +0200, Martin Bjorklund wrote:
> > Ladislav Lhotka wrote:
> > > On Fri, 2018-04-27 at 12:19 +0100, Robert Wilton wrote:
> > > >
> > > > On 27/04/2018 12:03, Ladislav Lhotka wrote:
> > > > > On Fri, 2018-04-27 at
On Wed, 2018-05-02 at 09:16 +0200, Martin Bjorklund wrote:
> Ladislav Lhotka wrote:
> > On Fri, 2018-04-27 at 12:19 +0100, Robert Wilton wrote:
> > >
> > > On 27/04/2018 12:03, Ladislav Lhotka wrote:
> > > > On Fri, 2018-04-27 at 11:23 +0100, Robert Wilton wrote:
> > > > > On
Kent Watsen wrote:
>
> Lada writes:
> > Andy writes:
> >>IMO, the yang-data defined in RFC 8040 has a clear purpose, and it
> >>is sufficient for that purpose, which is a YANG representation of
> >>an instance document (such as a protocol message or file).
> >
> > The same
Andy Bierman wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 7:09 AM, Ladislav Lhotka wrote:
>
> > Andy Bierman writes:
> >
> > > On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 8:13 AM, Ladislav Lhotka wrote:
> > >
> > >> On Fri, 2018-04-27 at 16:47 +0200,
On Tue, May 01, 2018 at 08:33:58PM +, Kent Watsen wrote:
>
> Juergen writes:
> > Kent writes:
> >> I don't understand talk about abandoning this draft. There is no question
> >> that it is needed (e.g., anima vouch, zerotouch, tail-f's "structure"),
> >> and RFC 8040 is unsatisfactory
Juergen writes:
> Kent writes:
>> I don't understand talk about abandoning this draft. There is no question
>> that it is needed (e.g., anima vouch, zerotouch, tail-f's "structure"),
>> and RFC 8040 is unsatisfactory because 1) it doesn't allow a top-level
>> 'choice' between two containers and
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 05:57:34PM +, Kent Watsen wrote:
>
> I don't understand talk about abandoning this draft. There is no question
> that it is needed (e.g., anima vouch, zerotouch, tail-f's "structure"),
> and RFC 8040 is unsatisfactory because 1) it doesn't allow a top-level
> 'choice'
Lada writes:
> Andy writes:
>>IMO, the yang-data defined in RFC 8040 has a clear purpose, and it
>>is sufficient for that purpose, which is a YANG representation of
>>an instance document (such as a protocol message or file).
>
> The same is basically true even without the extension. For example,
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 7:09 AM, Ladislav Lhotka wrote:
> Andy Bierman writes:
>
> > On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 8:13 AM, Ladislav Lhotka wrote:
> >
> >> On Fri, 2018-04-27 at 16:47 +0200, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote:
> >> > On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at
>Martin wrote before:
> No I was thinking along the lines of:
>
> ydx:yang-data my-first-rpc-error-info {
>...
> }
>
> rpc my-first-rpc {
>...
>opx:error-info-structure my-first-rpc-error-info;
> }
>
> I.e., use yang-data to define a structure, and use another statement
> to tie
Andy Bierman writes:
> On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 8:13 AM, Ladislav Lhotka wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 2018-04-27 at 16:47 +0200, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote:
>> > On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 04:34:38PM +0200, Ladislav Lhotka wrote:
>> >
>> > > [...] define a special
On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 04:34:38PM +0200, Ladislav Lhotka wrote:
> [...] define a special datastore for it, such as "error-messages".
This seems worse than using, well, RFC 8040 yang-data. The proper
clear solution for RPCs and actions would be to enable the definition
of error details right in
On 27/04/2018 12:03, Ladislav Lhotka wrote:
On Fri, 2018-04-27 at 11:23 +0100, Robert Wilton wrote:
On 27/04/2018 11:03, Martin Bjorklund wrote:
Hi,
Ladislav Lhotka wrote:
On Thu, 2018-04-26 at 17:52 -0700, Andy Bierman wrote:
On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 10:53 PM, Ladislav
On 27/04/2018 11:03, Martin Bjorklund wrote:
Hi,
Ladislav Lhotka wrote:
On Thu, 2018-04-26 at 17:52 -0700, Andy Bierman wrote:
On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 10:53 PM, Ladislav Lhotka wrote:
Ladislav Lhotka writes:
On Wed, 2018-04-25 at 08:04
Hi,
Ladislav Lhotka wrote:
> On Thu, 2018-04-26 at 17:52 -0700, Andy Bierman wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 10:53 PM, Ladislav Lhotka wrote:
> > > Ladislav Lhotka writes:
> > >
> > > > On Wed, 2018-04-25 at 08:04 -0700, Andy Bierman
On Thu, 2018-04-26 at 17:52 -0700, Andy Bierman wrote:
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 10:53 PM, Ladislav Lhotka wrote:
> > Ladislav Lhotka writes:
> >
> > > On Wed, 2018-04-25 at 08:04 -0700, Andy Bierman wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 7:05
Ladislav Lhotka writes:
> On Wed, 2018-04-25 at 08:04 -0700, Andy Bierman wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 7:05 AM, Ladislav Lhotka wrote:
>> > On Wed, 2018-04-25 at 15:55 +0200, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote:
>> > > On Tue, Apr 24, 2018 at 04:36:01PM +0200,
On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 7:05 AM, Ladislav Lhotka wrote:
> On Wed, 2018-04-25 at 15:55 +0200, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote:
> > On Tue, Apr 24, 2018 at 04:36:01PM +0200, Martin Bjorklund wrote:
> > > Ladislav Lhotka wrote:
> > > > Martin Bjorklund
On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 12:03 AM, Martin Bjorklund wrote:
> Andy Bierman wrote:
> > On Mon, Apr 23, 2018 at 1:08 PM, Martin Bjorklund
> wrote:
> >
> > > Andy Bierman wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I do
On Tue, Apr 24, 2018 at 11:57 PM, Martin Bjorklund wrote:
> Kent Watsen wrote:
> >
> > > People want to use YANG to define the schema for an XML or JSON
> > > representation of a stand-alone document.
> >
> > Agreed
> >
> >
> > > The only data needed must
Andy Bierman wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 23, 2018 at 1:08 PM, Martin Bjorklund wrote:
>
> > Andy Bierman wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I do not understand the need for a yang-data structure that
> > represents
> > > > data
> > > > >
Kent Watsen wrote:
>
> > People want to use YANG to define the schema for an XML or JSON
> > representation of a stand-alone document.
>
> Agreed
>
>
> > The only data needed must be module + local-name.
>
> Or maybe: module + local-name + context, where context is one
> People want to use YANG to define the schema for an XML or JSON
> representation of a stand-alone document.
Agreed
> The only data needed must be module + local-name.
Or maybe: module + local-name + context, where context is one of:
- data nodes
- RPC/actions
- notifications
-
On Mon, Apr 23, 2018 at 1:08 PM, Martin Bjorklund wrote:
> Andy Bierman wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > I do not understand the need for a yang-data structure that
> represents
> > > data
> > > > that can be instantiated anywhere and everywhere.
> > >
> >
On Tue, 2018-04-24 at 16:36 +0200, Martin Bjorklund wrote:
> Ladislav Lhotka wrote:
> > Martin Bjorklund writes:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I am not sure what this statement tells us re. the issue in this email
> > > thread.
> >
> > It tells us that, in my view,
Robert Wilton wrote:
>
>
> On 23/04/2018 21:08, Martin Bjorklund wrote:
> > Andy Bierman wrote:
> >>>
> I do not understand the need for a yang-data structure that represents
> >>> data
> that can be instantiated anywhere and everywhere.
>
Ladislav Lhotka wrote:
> Robert Varga writes:
>
> > On 23/04/18 18:51, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote:
> >> Some people will say that the cost of a new language version is high.
> >> (Well, when we did 1.1, some people said it will never be deployed.)
> >> Anyway, not
Ladislav Lhotka wrote:
> Martin Bjorklund writes:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I am not sure what this statement tells us re. the issue in this email
> > thread.
>
> It tells us that, in my view, the approach taken in this document is a
> bad idea.
Do you mean that the WG
Martin Bjorklund writes:
> Hi,
>
> I am not sure what this statement tells us re. the issue in this email
> thread.
It tells us that, in my view, the approach taken in this document is a
bad idea.
Lada
>
>
> /martin
>
>
> Juergen Schoenwaelder
Robert Varga writes:
> On 23/04/18 18:51, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote:
>> Some people will say that the cost of a new language version is high.
>> (Well, when we did 1.1, some people said it will never be deployed.)
>> Anyway, not bumping the YANG version number but having instead
On 23/04/2018 21:08, Martin Bjorklund wrote:
Andy Bierman wrote:
I do not understand the need for a yang-data structure that represents
data
that can be instantiated anywhere and everywhere.
AFAIK noone is proposing that.
I do not want to break
existing tools
On Mon, Apr 23, 2018 at 10:36 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder <
j.schoenwael...@jacobs-university.de> wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 23, 2018 at 07:18:38PM +0200, Robert Varga wrote:
> > On 23/04/18 18:51, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote:
> > > Some people will say that the cost of a new language version is high.
>
Andy Bierman wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > I do not understand the need for a yang-data structure that represents
> > data
> > > that can be instantiated anywhere and everywhere.
> >
> > AFAIK noone is proposing that.
> >
> > > I do not want to break
> > > existing tools that
>
> >
> > I do not understand the need for a yang-data structure that represents
> data
> > that can be instantiated anywhere and everywhere.
>
> AFAIK noone is proposing that.
>
> > I do not want to break
> > existing tools that expect sibling data nodes in the same module
> namespace
> > to
Hi,
I am not sure what this statement tells us re. the issue in this email
thread.
/martin
Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 22, 2018 at 02:56:51PM +0200, Ladislav Lhotka wrote:
>
> > I am much more concerned with some of the post-1.1 features,
Andy Bierman wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 23, 2018 at 4:28 AM, Martin Bjorklund wrote:
>
> > Andy Bierman wrote:
> > > On Sun, Apr 22, 2018 at 11:52 PM, Martin Bjorklund
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Andy Bierman
On Mon, Apr 23, 2018 at 07:18:38PM +0200, Robert Varga wrote:
> On 23/04/18 18:51, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote:
> > Some people will say that the cost of a new language version is high.
> > (Well, when we did 1.1, some people said it will never be deployed.)
> > Anyway, not bumping the YANG
On 23/04/18 18:51, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote:
> Some people will say that the cost of a new language version is high.
> (Well, when we did 1.1, some people said it will never be deployed.)
> Anyway, not bumping the YANG version number but having instead several
> (optional) language extensions
On Sun, Apr 22, 2018 at 02:56:51PM +0200, Ladislav Lhotka wrote:
> I am much more concerned with some of the post-1.1 features, also
> because YANG is now being updated in several directions without a
> clear vision. And another big problem is that YANG extensions are
> used for these changes, so
On 22/04/18 14:56, Ladislav Lhotka wrote:
>> One example: YANG 1.1 was supposed to be a backwards-compatible, yet it
>> introduced multiple-inheritence to a language which was previously
>> strictly single-inheritence. That sort of change is a major revision of
>> the metamodel and certainly does
On Mon, Apr 23, 2018 at 4:28 AM, Martin Bjorklund wrote:
> Andy Bierman wrote:
> > On Sun, Apr 22, 2018 at 11:52 PM, Martin Bjorklund
> wrote:
> >
> > > Andy Bierman wrote:
> > > > On Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 10:47 AM,
Andy Bierman wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 22, 2018 at 11:52 PM, Martin Bjorklund wrote:
>
> > Andy Bierman wrote:
> > > On Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 10:47 AM, Martin Bjorklund
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > Andy
On Sun, Apr 22, 2018 at 11:52 PM, Martin Bjorklund wrote:
> Andy Bierman wrote:
> > On Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 10:47 AM, Martin Bjorklund
> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > Andy Bierman wrote:
> > > > On Wed, Apr 18, 2018
Andy Bierman wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 10:47 AM, Martin Bjorklund wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > Andy Bierman wrote:
> > > On Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 10:26 AM, Kent Watsen
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > I like Andy's
On Sat, 2018-04-21 at 03:16 +0200, Robert Varga wrote:
> On 17/04/18 07:35, Ladislav Lhotka wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > this is a slippery slope. If we want to turn YANG into a general-purpose
> > schema language, it should IMO be done the other way around: design a
> > general-purpose schema language
On 17/04/18 07:35, Ladislav Lhotka wrote:
> Hi,
>
> this is a slippery slope. If we want to turn YANG into a general-purpose
> schema language, it should IMO be done the other way around: design a
> general-purpose schema language with a sound architecture, and then use
> it for defining schemas
Another and somewhat radical idea is to think of 'yang-data' as defining a data
node, like a 'container', but not a config or opstate node. Yes, this is
different from rc:yang-data, which defines a transparent node, like 'choice',
but maybe it's okay if we can get the substitution groups part
On Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 10:47 AM, Martin Bjorklund wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Andy Bierman wrote:
> > On Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 10:26 AM, Kent Watsen
> wrote:
> >
> > > I like Andy's proposal below, for the argument of the 'yang-data'
> > >
Hi,
Andy Bierman wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 10:26 AM, Kent Watsen wrote:
>
> > I like Andy's proposal below, for the argument of the 'yang-data'
> > statement to encode some meta-information regarding the context/namespace
> > in which it's used,
On Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 10:26 AM, Kent Watsen wrote:
> I like Andy's proposal below, for the argument of the 'yang-data'
> statement to encode some meta-information regarding the context/namespace
> in which it's used, but I wonder how it really works. For instance, would
>
Hi,
[Kent, your email program has messed up the quoting in this thread.
It becomes quite difficult to follow. And no, please don't invent a
new quoting style in every email thread...]
Kent Watsen wrote:
> I like Andy's proposal below, for the argument of the 'yang-data'
>
I like Andy's proposal below, for the argument of the 'yang-data' statement to
encode some meta-information regarding the context/namespace in which it's
used, but I wonder how it really works. For instance, would "top" and
"error-info" be the only allowed base-path values for the argument?
Hi,
this is a slippery slope. If we want to turn YANG into a general-purpose
schema language, it should IMO be done the other way around: design a
general-purpose schema language with a sound architecture, and then use
it for defining schemas of datastores, protocol messages or whatever.
YANG
On Mon, Apr 16, 2018 at 9:46 AM, Robert Wilton wrote:
>
>
> On 16/04/2018 17:07, Andy Bierman wrote:
>
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 16, 2018 at 8:44 AM, Robert Wilton wrote:
>
>> Don't groupings have a somewhat similar concern?
>>
>> E.g. if two groupings define the
On 16/04/2018 17:07, Andy Bierman wrote:
On Mon, Apr 16, 2018 at 8:44 AM, Robert Wilton > wrote:
Don't groupings have a somewhat similar concern?
E.g. if two groupings define the same data node name and are used
at the same point
Andy Bierman wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 16, 2018 at 8:44 AM, Robert Wilton wrote:
>
> > Don't groupings have a somewhat similar concern?
> >
> > E.g. if two groupings define the same data node name and are used at the
> > same point then you would get a
On Mon, Apr 16, 2018 at 8:44 AM, Robert Wilton wrote:
> Don't groupings have a somewhat similar concern?
>
> E.g. if two groupings define the same data node name and are used at the
> same point then you would get a namespace clash, but YANG does not disallow
> the groupings:
Don't groupings have a somewhat similar concern?
E.g. if two groupings define the same data node name and are used at
the same point then you would get a namespace clash, but YANG does not
disallow the groupings:
grouping foo_widget {
leaf name {
type string;
Hi,
Andy Bierman wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 16, 2018 at 6:33 AM, Joe Clarke wrote:
>
> > On 4/16/18 08:56, Martin Bjorklund wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > While preparing draft-ietf-netmod-yang-data-ext-02, it turned out that
> > > it is not clear what, if any,
On Mon, Apr 16, 2018 at 6:33 AM, Joe Clarke wrote:
> On 4/16/18 08:56, Martin Bjorklund wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > While preparing draft-ietf-netmod-yang-data-ext-02, it turned out that
> > it is not clear what, if any, restrictions should be enforced for
> > yang-data structures.
Hi,
Andy Bierman wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am strongly opposed to this change because it breaks the rule in YANG 1.1
> that there cannot be 2 sibling nodes defined in the same module namespace.
>
> IMO since any yang-data nodes are ALLOWED to be used at the top-level,
> then these
Hi,
I am strongly opposed to this change because it breaks the rule in YANG 1.1
that there cannot be 2 sibling nodes defined in the same module namespace.
IMO since any yang-data nodes are ALLOWED to be used at the top-level,
then these top-level nodes cannot have conflicting names.
It is very
On 4/16/18 08:56, Martin Bjorklund wrote:
> Hi,
>
> While preparing draft-ietf-netmod-yang-data-ext-02, it turned out that
> it is not clear what, if any, restrictions should be enforced for
> yang-data structures. Even among the authors we have different ideas
> for how this should work.
>
>
Hi,
While preparing draft-ietf-netmod-yang-data-ext-02, it turned out that
it is not clear what, if any, restrictions should be enforced for
yang-data structures. Even among the authors we have different ideas
for how this should work.
Background:
In 8040, the original yang-data extension had
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