Re: nettime Just do it! - Intellectual theft as a curatorial
Dont understand you, John and Inke are more or less saying the same. Ignore those Lessig etc phantasies and do what you want. As far as you are an artist etc. Copyright, I like it, is another level.. Linz is another country and a catalogue in a state run institution is something else anyway. H. On Sun, 10 Jul 2005, sascha brossmann wrote: on 7/8/05 1:05 AM, John Young wrote: [would-be-revolutionary unreflected religious crap deleted] you're nothing but a cocky loudmouthed pratt, john. and it's an utter ... # distributed via nettime: no commercial use without permission # nettime is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: [EMAIL PROTECTED] and info nettime-l in the msg body # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nettime@bbs.thing.net
Re: nettime Just do it! - Intellectual theft as a curatorial
on 7/8/05 1:05 AM, John Young wrote: [would-be-revolutionary unreflected religious crap deleted] you're nothing but a cocky loudmouthed pratt, john. and it's an utter waste of time and intellect to deal with your apparent lack of thought, insight, comprehension, etc. on any other level than that. btw, there is nothing beyond happenstance convention which assures poisonous dwarves like you to be preserved from me beating their brain out (if there was any, better one tried the reverse way) on the next proper occasion. recognize something, nitwit? 'nuff said. brsma -- :: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ::. :: .. :... . . . . . . . :: www.brsma.de :: ..: .:. . :.. ..: . . . . . . :: icq #121790750 ::.: .:. :. ::. .. . .. . . . . :: public key id 0x2EA549A0 ::.. :: . . . . .... . # distributed via nettime: no commercial use without permission # nettime is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: [EMAIL PROTECTED] and info nettime-l in the msg body # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nettime@bbs.thing.net
Re: nettime Just do it! - Intellectual theft as a curatorial
I have seen neither the show nor the catalogue, so I of course I cannot offer an evaluation of those. But it seemed to me that Inke Arns's comments were more about courtesy (and the lack thereof) than a diatribe against rip-offs. John Young's response veer more closely toward the platitudinous than Inke Arns's diatribe. For example, the following, which was posted as its own paragraph: No artist deserves anything except what they can beg, borrow and steal. Sure, but that doesn't seem to address Inke Arns's main point. The issue at hand, as described in the original post, is the fact that the curators--who as members of a profession supposedly in the business of giving credit--didn't share the wealth of attention, not as convention or justice dictates, but rather as simple courtesy. Rip offs happen, but you can do it nicely by passing on the rewards of that which you freely used, or you can be a dink about it. If one decides that the latter is the case, then a little reputation-bashing (very different than belly-aching) may be in order. That is part of the game, too, you know--ie the way things are. To me, the more substantive question is what evidence of intention exists. As described, the catalogue's failings might not even be attributable to the curators, but rather to a book designer who, for example, took liberties by separating texts from author's names. Also, as grounds for criticism, the fact that the book is being commercially distributed means little. When was the last time an exhibition catalogue made money? To sum it up, while I can agree that there are problems with Inke Arns's post, and that publicly calling out a curatorial team and the host institution in fact may be premature in this case, none of that has anything to do with complaints about appropriation being a standard practice. Part of the reason I took an interest in the original post is because it turns out that I will be in Linz at the museum next week, and perhaps will see the catalogue. Maybe I'll change my mind Dan w. # distributed via nettime: no commercial use without permission # nettime is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: [EMAIL PROTECTED] and info nettime-l in the msg body # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nettime@bbs.thing.net
Re: nettime Just do it! - Intellectual theft as a curatorial
There is nothing beyond happenstance convention which assures a creator credit, recognition, monetary payment, praise, security from appropriation. Much, perhaps all, of the argument in the exhortive post is that used by commercial approriators, thieves and bandits, their henchpersons and sharks, who invoke lop-sided convention to lay claim to creative work, cloaked, as ever, in the mantle of defending near-helpless creators, few of whom enjoy the fruits of convention, and always much less than the upper levels of the copyright heirarchy forever raving about the way things should be: like they want them to be. Blessed are those who defy this priestly argument for protection of innocents unable to protect themselves without divine intervention from rot-crotched belly-achers hoping to divert attention from their back-channel predations. To be sure, artists and ever more surely, curators, rip off creators. So what. Rip them off in return. Diatribes against ripoff are capable of being entertaining, in a dumb and dumber mode. No artist deserves anything except what they can beg, borrow and steal. Intellectuals deserve nothing except one another. Defenders of artists and intellectuals are up to no good. # distributed via nettime: no commercial use without permission # nettime is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: [EMAIL PROTECTED] and info nettime-l in the msg body # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nettime@bbs.thing.net
