Re: [NTG-context] minimal example of some problems
On Sun, 4 Apr 2010, Michael Saunders wrote: 1. Leftward protrusion doesn't work. 2. I don't think hz is working in footnotes. The font I'm using is Adobe Garamond Premiere Pro. If you think there might be a problem with the typescript, I can show you that too. These two are related to font. Either show that something is wrong with default typescripts (lmodern, times, palatino, etc) else it means that tosmething is wrong with your typescript. But first you have to narrow down the problem I take your word for it that it works for the default typescripts; therefore, the problem must be somewhere in my typescript, but I have no idea where. It is as follows: I don't have the font, so I cannot test it. 3. Observe footnote 1 (the only one). It is breaking between p.1 and p.2. I want to forbid that. I don't know how to prevent this. But again, this has nothing to do with columns or fonts. I want that to work in those columns with that font. If you don't know how to make it work in any font with or without columns, that makes no difference. It looks like it's just one more thing that Context can't do or can't do correctly. You can prevent notes from splitting across pages by \setupenumerations[footnote] [before=\vbox\bgroup, after=\egroup] The footnote may still appear on a different page. If you want to prevent that add \setupfootnotes[split=verystrict] which can mess up the layout. You can slightly salvage things by adding \setuptolerance[vertical, verytolerant] Aditya ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] minimal example of some problems
> > 1. Leftward protrusion doesn't work. > > 2. I don't think hz is working in footnotes. > > > The font I'm using is Adobe Garamond Premiere Pro. If you think there > > might be a problem with the typescript, I can show you that too. > > These two are related to font. Either show that something is wrong with > default typescripts (lmodern, times, palatino, etc) else it means that > tosmething is wrong with your typescript. But first you have to narrow > down the problem I take your word for it that it works for the default typescripts; therefore, the problem must be somewhere in my typescript, but I have no idea where. It is as follows: \starttypescript [serif] [optical] [size] \definebodyfont [4pt,5pt,6pt,7pt,8pt,9pt,10pt] [rm] [tf=SerifCaption-Regular sa 1, it=SerifCaption-Italic sa 1] \definebodyfont [11pt,12pt,13pt,14pt,14.4pt] [rm] [tf=SerifRegular-Regular sa 1, it=SerifRegular-Italic sa 1] \definebodyfont [15pt,16pt,17pt,17.3pt,18pt,19pt,20pt,21pt,22pt] [rm] [tf=SerifSubhead-Regular sa 1, it=SerifSubhead-Italic sa 1] \definebodyfont [23pt,24pt,30pt,36pt,48pt,51pt,60pt] [rm] [tf=SerifDisplay-Regular sa 1, it=SerifDisplay-Italic sa 1] \stoptypescript %I don't know what this block is for, but I think it is needed only once. \starttypescript [serif] [garamond] \definefontsynonym [Serif] [SerifRegular-Regular] \definefontsynonym [SerifItalic] [SerifRegular-Italic] \stoptypescript %Garamond (Book)garamond \starttypescript [serif] [garamond] \definefontsynonym [SerifCaption-Regular] [file:GaramondPremrPro-Capt] [features=body] \definefontsynonym [SerifCaption-Italic] [file:GaramondPremrPro-ItCapt] [features=body] \definefontsynonym [SerifRegular-Regular][file:GaramondPremrPro] [features=body] \definefontsynonym [SerifRegular-Italic] [file:GaramondPremrPro-It] [features=body] \definefontsynonym [SerifSubhead-Regular] [file:GaramondPremrPro-Subh] [features=body] \definefontsynonym [SerifSubhead-Italic] [file:GaramondPremrPro-ItSubh] [features=body] \definefontsynonym [SerifDisplay-Regular] [file:GaramondPremrPro-Disp] [features=body] \definefontsynonym [SerifDisplay-Italic] [file:GaramondPremrPro-ItDisp] [features=body] \stoptypescript \starttypescript [garamond] \definetypeface [garamond] [rm] [serif] [garamond] [optical] \stoptypescript %Garamond MediumgaramondMD \starttypescript [serif] [garamondMD] \definefontsynonym [SerifCaption-Regular] [file:GaramondPremrPro-MedCapt] [features=body] \definefontsynonym [SerifCaption-Italic] [file:GaramondPremrPro-MedItCapt] [features=body] \definefontsynonym [SerifRegular-Regular] [file:GaramondPremrPro-Med][features=body] \definefontsynonym [SerifRegular-Italic] [file:GaramondPremrPro-MedIt] [features=body] \definefontsynonym [SerifSubhead-Regular] [file:GaramondPremrPro-MedSubh] [features=body] \definefontsynonym [SerifSubhead-Italic] [file:GaramondPremrPro-MedItSubh] [features=body] \definefontsynonym [SerifDisplay-Regular] [file:GaramondPremrPro-MedDisp] [features=body] \definefontsynonym [SerifDisplay-Italic] [file:GaramondPremrPro-MedItDisp] [features=body] \stoptypescript \starttypescript [garamondMD] \definetypeface [garamondMD] [rm] [serif] [garamondMD] [optical] \stoptypescript %Garamond Semi-Bold garamondSB \starttypescript [serif] [garamondSB] \definefontsynonym [SerifCaption-Regular] [file:GaramondPremrPro-SmbdCapt] [features=body] \definefontsynonym [SerifCaption-Italic] [file:GaramondPremrPro-SmbdItCapt] [features=body] \definefontsynonym [SerifRegular-Regular] [file:GaramondPremrPro-Smbd][features=body] \definefontsynonym [SerifRegular-Italic] [file:GaramondPremrPro-SmbdIt] [features=body] \definefontsynonym [SerifSubhead-Regular] [file:GaramondPremrPro-SmbdSubh] [features=body] \definefontsynonym [SerifSubhead-Italic] [file:GaramondPremrPro-SmbdItSubh] [features=body] \definefontsynonym [SerifDisplay-Regular] [file:GaramondPremrPro-SmbdDisp] [features=body] \definefontsynonym [SerifDisplay-Italic] [file:GaramondPremrPro-SmbdItDisp] [features=body] \stoptypescript \starttypescript [garamondSB] \definetypeface [garamondSB] [rm] [serif] [garamondSB] [optical] \stoptypescript %Garamond Bold garamondBD \starttypescript [serif] [garamondBD] \definefontsynonym [SerifCaption-Regular] [file:GaramondPremrPro-BdCapt] [features=body] \definefontsynonym [SerifCaption-Italic] [file:GaramondPremrPro-BdItCapt] [features=body] \definefontsynonym [SerifRegular-Regular] [file:GaramondPremrPro-Bd][features=body] \definefontsynonym [SerifRegular-Italic] [file:
Re: [NTG-context] minimal example of some problems
On Sat, 3 Apr 2010, Michael Saunders wrote:
1. columns and marginal notes conflict:
For some of the issues, it would be perhaps a good idea to make proper
bug-reports (with minimal example of course).
In some other venue?
In a separate thread, with a minimal example, that one can copy-paste and
see the error. Trying to guess what is wrong is difficult.
I tried that several times and got no response. Since you insist on
seeing lots of lorem ipsum, the following example:
This example is not minimal. You are mixing four things
together, and still not giving complete information. Ideally you should
have one **minimal** example for each problem. See below for an
example.
is meant to illustrate four problems:
1. Leftward protrusion doesn't work.
2. I don't think hz is working in footnotes.
The font I'm using is Adobe Garamond Premiere Pro. If you think there
might be a problem with the typescript, I can show you that too.
These two are related to font. Either show that something is wrong with
default typescripts (lmodern, times, palatino, etc) else it means that
tosmething is wrong with your typescript. But first you have to narrow
down the problem
3. Observe footnote 1 (the only one). It is breaking between p.1 and
p.2. I want to forbid that.
I don't know how to prevent this. But again, this has nothing to do with
columns or fonts.
4. Notice the overprinting near the top of p.2 c.1. That is a
marginal note that should go into the right margin.
Here is a minimal example (no page setup, font setup, or styles needed to
show the problem)
\starttext
\startcolumns
\input knuth
\input tufte
\column
\input tufte
\inmargin{This is in wrong margin}
\input knuth
\stopcolumns
\stoptext
The marin note in 2nd column is displayed in the 1st column. This is
artifact of the way in which TeX constructs columns: first creating a long
and narrow page and then splitting it into two. I don't know at what stage
of the OTR are margin notes inserted, and if there is a workaround. Maybe
others can help.
What is the proper way to raise or lower a bit of text? I just spent
...
\raisebox{1ex}{?}
When I try:
\raisebox{1ex}{--}
Context stops on the error:
"A was supposed to be here
\raisebox{1ex}{
--}"
Provide a box :-) \raisebox{1ex}{\hbox{--}} (untested)
\raisebox{1em}\hbox{--}
Aditya
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[NTG-context] minimal example of some problems
Aditya:
1. columns and marginal notes conflict:
>>>
>>> For some of the issues, it would be perhaps a good idea to make proper
>>> bug-reports (with minimal example of course).
>>
>> In some other venue?
>
>In a separate thread, with a minimal example, that one can copy-paste and
>see the error. Trying to guess what is wrong is difficult.
I tried that several times and got no response. Since you insist on
seeing lots of lorem ipsum, the following example:
\definefontfeature[default][mode=node,language=dflt,script=latn,kern=yes,liga=yes,tlig=yes,trep=yes]
\definefontfeature[body][default][onum=yes,onum=yes,pnum=yes,calt=yes,protrusion=quality,expansion=quality]
\definefontfeature[su][body][sups=yes,ordn=yes]
\usetypescriptfile[type-garamond]
\starttypescript [MTbook]
\definetypeface[MTbook][rm][serif][garamondMD][optical]
\stoptypescript
\usetypescript[MTbook]
\setupalign[hanging,hz]
\setupbodyfont[MTbook,12pt]%
\mainlanguage[en-us]
\definepapersize[MTS][width=823pt,height=462pt]
\definepapersize[MTA][width=823pt,height=462pt]
\setuppapersize[MTA][MTS]
\setuplayout[width=604.46pt,height=462pt,%
topspace=3pt,bottomspace=0pt,lines=30,header=21.4pt,footer=21.4pt,%
headerdistance=7.2pt,footerdistance=7.2pt,%
leftedgedistance=0pt,rightedgedistance=0pt,%
leftmargin=95pt,rightmargin=95pt,%
leftmargindistance=10pt,rightmargindistance=10pt,%
leftedge=11.5pt,rightedge=11.5pt,%
cutspace=0pt,backspace=109.5pt,%
grid=verytolerant]
\showgrid
\setupcolumns[n=2,rule=off,distance=20pt]
\setupinmargin[style=\ss,align=outer]
\setupfootnotedefinition[location=serried,distance=0.5em]
\newcommand{\fnstyle}{\switchtobodyfont[12pt]\addff{su}}
\setupnote[footnote][location=columns,numbercommand=\fnstyle,textcommand=\fnstyle\tfa,align={normal,hanging},interaction=yes]
\setupinteraction[state=start,color=darkgreen,contrastcolor=darkred]
\setupinteractionscreen[option=fit,view=fit]
\setupcombinedlist[content][interaction=all,textcolor=black]
\showlayoutcomponents
\starttext
\startcolumns
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Duis aliquam
sapien nec ligula aliquam eu tempor quam elementum. Etiam tellus
justo, pellentesque non luctus a, adipiscing ac mi. Nulla nec lorem
quis ante blandit laoreet vitae sed purus. Donec quis quam nec massa
ullamcorper condimentum at sit amet ante. Quisque ac nisl nibh.
Aliquam pulvinar pharetra purus suscipit dictum. Cras adipiscing sem
id tortor commodo nec mattis felis ultricies. Sed eget neque eget arcu
dictum feugiat. Nulla at congue ligula. Aliquam a magna et erat
interdum auctor. Ut consectetur sem ac massa congue ut consequat sem
elementum. Quisque ac justo enim. Donec et enim eu risus fermentum
lacinia at a odio. Sed egestas ligula ullamcorper risus accumsan
hendrerit. Integer placerat lectus sed eros porta accumsan.
Pellentesque elementum, urna eu tincidunt mollis, elit dolor
scelerisque diam, sed commodo nisl odio sagittis erat. Ut consequat
dolor enim, eget euismod arcu. In hac habitasse platea dictumst. Cras
adipiscing erat eu enim hendrerit quis euismod orci vehicula.
Sed pharetra porta lacinia. Nullam at lacus et sem venenatis consequat
ut nec eros. Donec diam elit, malesuada nec aliquam in, elementum vel
mi. Etiam quis euismod dui. Nunc sit amet eros vel erat vehicula
accumsan. Cras vulputate magna vitae urna fermentum nec eleifend
tortor dignissim. Suspendisse at velit id turpis gravida commodo sed
quis nulla. Cras id urna vel dui facilisis convallis. Cum sociis
natoque penatibus et magnis dis parturient montes, nascetur ridiculus
mus. Pellentesque habitant morbi tristique senectus et netus et
malesuada fames ac turpis egestas. Phasellus pulvinar auctor metus,
non rutrum risus ornare a. Proin purus nisl, fringilla at congue ac,
imperdiet non velit. Sed magna libero, pellentesque ut vestibulum sit
amet, euismod ac nulla. Proin egestas, mi at convallis accumsan,
lectus erat tincidunt magna, quis ullamcorper arcu dolor et dui.
Maecenas iaculis erat aliquam augue pellentesque aliquam. Donec in
odio sapien, ac iaculis risus. In tempus nulla tristique ante dapibus
nec accumsan velit convallis. Sed imperdiet tincidunt turpis aliquam
porta.
Pellentesque\footnote{Integer libero velit, accumsan at porttitor et,
gravida et ligula. Maecenas vestibulum convallis metus, vitae
ullamcorper diam aliquet eget. Sed id lorem nec nibh dignissim
bibendum. Cum sociis natoque penatibus et magnis dis parturient
montes, nascetur ridiculus mus. Praesent in arcu a nunc rutrum
faucibus. Ut ornare, est vitae viverra luctus, sapien eros malesuada
felis, id facilisis ipsum ligula sit amet purus. Sed libero dui,
consectetur rhoncus laoreet non, faucibus quis est. Aenean non lacus
felis, sit amet tempor felis. Fusce gravida sem arcu, id hendrerit
est. Ut nec ligula nunc, sed pulvinar risus. Cras ac purus sem, eget
posuere enim. Quisque sem velit, accumsan sit amet interdum vitae,
laoreet ac tellus. Curabitur tempus, erat sed dapibus volutpat, dolor
lacus faucibus ante, ut ia
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book: A summary
On Sat, 3 Apr 2010, Hans Hagen wrote: can you add the poem to the wiki? http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Humour ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
On Sat, 3 Apr 2010, Michael Saunders wrote:
1. columns and marginal notes conflict:
For some of the issues, it would be perhaps a good idea to make proper
bug-reports (with minimal example of course).
In some other venue?
In a separate thread, with a minimal example, that one can copy-paste and
see the error. Trying to guess what is wrong is difficult.
P.S.: Please consider fixing or changing your email client: it breaks the
threads.
Gmail. This is broken?
For some reason, none of your responses contain a References: header. So,
threading gets broken. Normally, gmail works fine, so I don't know why the
headers are beings stripped in this case.
2. leftward protrusion fails
\definefontfeature[...][default][...,protrusion=quality,expansion=quality]
\setupalign[hanging,hz]
\showgrid % or \showframe
There is no leftward protrusion at all. Everything on the left edge
is flush with the margin, even 'T' and 'J'. Similarly:
Don't know what you mean, works here.
\definefontfeature[default][default][protrusion=quality]
\usetypescript[modern]
\setupbodyfont[modern]
The only difference I see is that I'm trying to use a different font
than modern:
\usetypescriptfile[type-garamond]
\starttypescript [MTbook]
\definetypeface[MTbook][rm][serif][garamondMD][optical]
...
These details are important. Also a link to which Garamond you are using.
\stoptypescript
\usetypescript[MTbook]
\setupalign[hanging,hz]
\setupbodyfont[MTbook,12pt]
So, leftward protrusion only works with Latin Modern?
3. protrusion fails in footnotes:
Even on the right edge. Hz isn't happening in them either.
You have to enable it separate for notes.
\setupnote[footnote][align={normal,hanging}]
I got rightward protrusion with that, but it looks like no hz.
Why are the key-values different? I also tried {quality,quality} and
got nothing.
Again, a minimal example is needed.
5. footnotes break between pages
How do I stop this?
No example, no help!
Imagine:
The footnote will begin on page one, break halfway through, and
continue on the following page. I want to prevent footnotes from
breaking in this way.
If you really need to see 1.5 pages of concrete "lorem ipsum" posted
to understand the problem, I can provide it.
I don't know this
9. \raisebox?
What is the proper way to raise or lower a bit of text? I just spent
...
\raisebox{1ex}{?}
When I try:
\raisebox{1ex}{--}
Context stops on the error:
"A was supposed to be here
\raisebox{1ex}{
--}"
Provide a box :-) \raisebox{1ex}{\hbox{--}} (untested)
Yep. But when you actually run into one of these problems in LaTeX, you
are often more or less left alone - unlike ConTeXt and this list.
I'm pursuing it with the hope of more beautiful results, but I'm not
getting my problems solved here so far.
http://www.tex.ac.uk/cgi-bin/texfaq2html?label=minxampl
Aditya
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Re: [NTG-context] Excursion PDf w/o controls on the page
On Sat, 3 Apr 2010, Russell Urquhart wrote: Cool thank you! Suggestion. Do you think this should be on the front page of the wiki (maybe not replacing what is there, but as an additional link, detailing the format of this pdf?) Done. ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] Excursion PDf w/o controls on the page
Cool thank you! Suggestion. Do you think this should be on the front page of the wiki (maybe not replacing what is there, but as an additional link, detailing the format of this pdf?) just a thought, Thanks again! Russ On Sat, Apr 03, 2010 at 07:43:52PM -0400, Aditya Mahajan wrote: > On Sat, 3 Apr 2010, Russell Urquhart wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> in light of the Context book discussions, i had a question. Is there a >> version of the Excursion book, that is in a portrait format, without >> the controls on the side of the page. >> >> Sorry if this is a nit, or an already answered question. This was the first >> book pointed to by the wiki! > > http://www.pragma-ade.com/general/manuals/mp-cb-en.pdf > > Aditya > ___ > If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the > Wiki! > > maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context > webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net > archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ > wiki : http://contextgarden.net > ___ ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] Excursion PDf w/o controls on the page
On Sat, 3 Apr 2010, Russell Urquhart wrote: Hi, in light of the Context book discussions, i had a question. Is there a version of the Excursion book, that is in a portrait format, without the controls on the side of the page. Sorry if this is a nit, or an already answered question. This was the first book pointed to by the wiki! http://www.pragma-ade.com/general/manuals/mp-cb-en.pdf Aditya ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] Excursion PDf w/o controls on the page
Hi, in light of the Context book discussions, i had a question. Is there a version of the Excursion book, that is in a portrait format, without the controls on the side of the page. Sorry if this is a nit, or an already answered question. This was the first book pointed to by the wiki! Thanks for any and all help! Russ ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
> > 1. columns and marginal notes conflict:
>
> For some of the issues, it would be perhaps a good idea to make proper
> bug-reports (with minimal example of course).
In some other venue?
> P.S.: Please consider fixing or changing your email client: it breaks the
> threads.
Gmail. This is broken?
> > 2. leftward protrusion fails
> > \definefontfeature[...][default][...,protrusion=quality,expansion=quality]
> > \setupalign[hanging,hz]
> > \showgrid % or \showframe
> > There is no leftward protrusion at all. Everything on the left edge
> > is flush with the margin, even 'T' and 'J'. Similarly:
> >
> Don't know what you mean, works here.
>
> \definefontfeature[default][default][protrusion=quality]
>
> \usetypescript[modern]
> \setupbodyfont[modern]
The only difference I see is that I'm trying to use a different font
than modern:
\usetypescriptfile[type-garamond]
\starttypescript [MTbook]
\definetypeface[MTbook][rm][serif][garamondMD][optical]
...
\stoptypescript
\usetypescript[MTbook]
\setupalign[hanging,hz]
\setupbodyfont[MTbook,12pt]
So, leftward protrusion only works with Latin Modern?
> > 3. protrusion fails in footnotes:
> > Even on the right edge. Hz isn't happening in them either.
> >
> You have to enable it separate for notes.
> \setupnote[footnote][align={normal,hanging}]
I got rightward protrusion with that, but it looks like no hz.
Why are the key-values different? I also tried {quality,quality} and
got nothing.
> > 5. footnotes break between pages
> > How do I stop this?
> >
> No example, no help!
Imagine:
The footnote will begin on page one, break halfway through, and
continue on the following page. I want to prevent footnotes from
breaking in this way.
If you really need to see 1.5 pages of concrete "lorem ipsum" posted
to understand the problem, I can provide it.
> > 9. \raisebox?
> > What is the proper way to raise or lower a bit of text? I just spent
> > ...
> \raisebox{1ex}{?}
When I try:
\raisebox{1ex}{--}
Context stops on the error:
"A was supposed to be here
\raisebox{1ex}{
--}"
>
> What should ConTeXt do when your font doesn't provide the allcaps feature.
Some of the punctuation (e.g., hyphens, en- and em-dashes) should be
raised slightly and perhaps given a little extra spacing. The feature
is in my serif font, but not in my sans, hence my effort to correct
this.
> > 10. problematic characters in grid typesetting.
> > Unless I set grid=verytolerant, my 'Q' knocks the next line down a
> > notch. Is there a better way to deal with this?
> >
> You can change the height/depth ratio of a line.
> \setupinterlinespace[height=0.6,depth=0.4]
I must remember to put that convenient command before every majescule Q.
By the way---I am thrilled to hear of and very eager to see Idris's book!
> But maybe a select audience of test-able volunteers will be the way to go...
I volunteer to be testable.
> Yep. But when you actually run into one of these problems in LaTeX, you
> are often more or less left alone - unlike ConTeXt and this list.
I'm pursuing it with the hope of more beautiful results, but I'm not
getting my problems solved here so far.
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___
Re: [NTG-context] Typographical Engineering in Context
Dnia Sat, Apr 03, 2010 at 02:58:37PM +, John Haltiwanger napisał(a): > > As this is precisely my situation, perhaps I can offer you the benefit > > of a test-able target audience? Today I am already looking into the > > best route to learning TeX/mkiv in a holistic (ie not just looking for > > the 'recipe' I need to meet a given deadline). I have just entered > > full-time thesis mode, so the question begins Should I just sit down > > and read the TeXBook? (something that will be done regardless, it's > > just a question as what is most worthwhile to Getting Something Done > > Right Now) or would it be that the LuaTeX manual is more directly > > applicable? Or, perhaps, a chapter from your book? ;) > > Sorry to reply to myself, but the send button got pressed a bit early. > The point is, I want to approach TeX/mkiv in a holistic way. I don't > necessarily want to be mired in TeX constraints when it seems LuaTeX > will be a) easier b) more relevant c) more powerful. However, I can > imagine that knowing the former is important to understanding/learning > the latter. My 3 cents: if you want to have your thesis done *quickly* and in an easy, "howto - recipe - faq" way, just use LaTeX (probably with amsrefs/tikz/memoir/a few others). If you want to do more unusual things, and have some spare time to play with them and ask a lot of questions here - use ConTeXt. (Some time ago, on the blog of the Malaysian LaTeX User Group (http://latex-my.blogspot.com/) there was a nice example of having a colourful, good-looking book done in LaTeX, btw, so it's also possible, of course; but LaTeX was *not* designed with such things in mind.) And please, *do* read the TeXbook - it's so much fun! > Anyway, at the moment I'm content to read Taco's new typography > chapter and add a few notes :) Now I'm just feeling obliged to do the same. I'll print them out and read on the bus/tramway (or is it called a "cable car"?) Regards -- Marcin Borkowski (http://mbork.pl) ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
Gour a écrit : On Sat, 03 Apr 2010 16:03:34 +0200 "Alain" == Alain Delmotte wrote: Alain> Can you read a sentence in full and not always cut out what Alain> doesn't interest you, or should I mark every word as important? Excuse me...it's my mistake...I had to enclose my sentence in: \startirony ... \endirony :-) And I get an error for a \flameoff (without corresponding \flameon) Regards, Alain Sincerely, Gour ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___ ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
Dnia Sat, Apr 03, 2010 at 08:51:03AM -0500, Michael Saunders napisał(a): > Because I think it might be possible to produce better output with > Context than with LaTeX (is this true?). My experience has been quite > different from yours. I got up an running with LaTeX in a week (in > 1995), found the documentation clear and almost any effect I wanted > easy to achieve with well-documented packages that never seriously > conflicted. This, on the other hand, is a nightmare. Yep. But when you actually run into one of these problems in LaTeX, you are often more or less left alone - unlike ConTeXt and this list. A few examples: tikz (for some obscure reason) breaks some functionality of empheq; align in intertext in align (yes, I needed something like this!) in AMS-LaTeX doesn't work; hacking the (otherwise excellent) amsrefs package (or any AMS-LaTeX package, for that matter) is a real pain, but sometimes you just need it (for example, amsthm may be a standard, but it just sucks in quite a few respects!). My general thought on this discussion: someone said "why don't people switch from LaTeX to ConTeXt if ConTeXt is better?". The answer is obvious to me. First: 99% maths journals accept LaTeX, \epsilon of them (if any) accept ConTeXt. Second: people still use their LaTeX 2.09 preambles from the nineties, and spending even 30 minutes on learning a new package (or just not using $$ ... $$ but \[ ... \] or anything) seems impossible for them. Third: sadly, nearly anyone just does not care whether the results are beautiful or ugly; people (I'm talking about mathematicians now) use (La|AMS|Con)TeX(t) not because it is better than (word|OO), but because that is what journals want. Personally, I use both LaTeX and ConTeXt: LaTeX when I need something done quickly or when I want to share some code with others (who usually use LaTeX), and ConTeXt when I have some time and want to learn something new (or when I have a ready template which *just works(TM)*.) Cheers -- Marcin Borkowski (http://mbork.pl) ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
On Sat, 03 Apr 2010 16:03:34 +0200 >> "Alain" == Alain Delmotte wrote: Alain> Can you read a sentence in full and not always cut out what Alain> doesn't interest you, or should I mark every word as important? Excuse me...it's my mistake...I had to enclose my sentence in: \startirony ... \endirony :-) Sincerely, Gour -- Gour | Hlapicina, Croatia | GPG key: F96FF5F6 signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] Hans' presentation: using plain TEX (from TUG 2009) [apologies if OT]
On 3-4-2010 8:56, Graham Douglas wrote: <> Hi Hans Thank you for your commnts. Oh, for sure, tinkering with plain is just an interim step along the (long...) road. A very minimal "harness setup" to write minimal code --- to play with the various LuaTeX API functions via GNU's gdb debugger. By building a small test environment/playground from scratch, including compiling LuaTeX, and hacking together a basic TDS, gives me a way to learn about stuff like kpathsea etc. Whether or not it's a good way to learn, the right stuff to learn, I'm not sure, but I have learnt a lot through trial + error and not a little frustration, at times... And it keeps me pleasantly occupied with an absorbing and very low-cost hobby :-) If there would be any interest, I'd be happy to write it up at some point if anyone would benefit --- but it'd need scrutiny from resident experts prior to publication: peer review :-) just write articles for the MAPS then (NTG journal) Hans - Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl - ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] Error under Ubuntu Lnux
Hi Mojca, Mojca Miklavec a écrit : On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 11:05, Alain Delmotte wrote: When did you last update the minimals? LuaTeX beta-0.50.0 should not be there any more. Well! I installed it Thursday 01/04 for the first time (but I confess: I didn't update since!!) But I think Taco gave the answer, I'll wait. You don't need to wait since the latest version should be there since Thursday the 1st (you installed the minimals a couple of hours too early :). Thanks I updated and everything is OK. Have good Easter days, Alain Mojca ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___ ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
[NTG-context] learning LuaTeX (was: Hans' presentation: using plain TEX (from TUG 2009) [apologies if OT])
Hello Graham, > Thank you for your commnts. Oh, for sure, tinkering with > plain is just an interim step along the (long...) road. A very minimal > "harness setup" to write minimal code --- to play with the various LuaTeX API > functions via GNU's gdb debugger. By building a small test > environment/playground from scratch, including compiling LuaTeX, and > hacking together a basic TDS, gives me a way to learn about stuff like > kpathsea etc. Besides the gdb part, this is pretty much how I "learned" LuaTeX (still on my path). I suggest you stay with plain, then add features as you go along: * write your own font handler (see the bluewiki page) - LuaTeX supports many different kinds of fonts * write your own kpathsea module (and thus replace kpathsea) * do a nodelist traversal and find out about the different node types * create a nodelist and write it out to TeX (node.write(...)) * use tex.linebreak() for creating a paragraph. ... Hans' font stuff is rather advanced and therefore complex (IIRC > 1 lines of code), so don't try to understand it as your first exercise. There is no need to use ConTeXt if all you want is knowledge of the LuaTeX API. If you understand german or use google translate, have a look at http://www.luatex.de Patrick ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] Hans' presentation: using plain TEX (from TUG 2009) [apologies if OT]
<> Hi Hans Thank you for your commnts. Oh, for sure, tinkering with plain is just an interim step along the (long...) road. A very minimal "harness setup" to write minimal code --- to play with the various LuaTeX API functions via GNU's gdb debugger. By building a small test environment/playground from scratch, including compiling LuaTeX, and hacking together a basic TDS, gives me a way to learn about stuff like kpathsea etc. Whether or not it's a good way to learn, the right stuff to learn, I'm not sure, but I have learnt a lot through trial + error and not a little frustration, at times... And it keeps me pleasantly occupied with an absorbing and very low-cost hobby :-) If there would be any interest, I'd be happy to write it up at some point if anyone would benefit --- but it'd need scrutiny from resident experts prior to publication: peer review :-) Warm wishes Graham ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book: A summary
On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 6:41 PM, Alan BRASLAU wrote: > On Saturday 03 April 2010 19:14:20 John Haltiwanger wrote: >> >> Also, I want to say that this kind of anonymous poetry is, to me, >> proof-positive of an excellent community. > > Beers all around (in Prague next September)! Ah, another good sign! ;) ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book: A summary
On Sat, 03 Apr 2010 12:29:30 -0600, Yet Another ConTeXt user wrote: Who is this Irdis? Oh, my heart now bleeds That I couldn't spell the name of Prof Hamid Our anonymous YACU ran, slipped and had to skid, Neither did (s)he know how to rhyme with Hamid Accent in Hamid is on the first syllable, Otherwise pronouncing it will be untenable ;-) -- Professor Idris Samawi Hamid, Editor-in-Chief International Journal of Shi`i Studies Department of Philosophy Colorado State University Fort Collins, CO 80523 ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book: A summary
On Saturday 03 April 2010 19:14:20 John Haltiwanger wrote: > > Also, I want to say that this kind of anonymous poetry is, to me, > proof-positive of an excellent community. Beers all around (in Prague next September)! Alan ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] (lua?)latex module ( The ConTeXt book)
2010/4/3 Taco Hoekwater : > ebcdic! UTF-EBCDIC? UTF-5? Best Martin ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] (lua?)latex module ( The ConTeXt book)
Martin Schröder wrote: 2010/4/3 Hans Hagen : ah .. woul dhav emade a nice april 1 joke ... you announcing that there would finally be a proper input as well as font encoding for italian! After that can we have ascii please? ebcdic! ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] (lua?)latex module ( The ConTeXt book)
2010/4/3 Hans Hagen : > ah .. woul dhav emade a nice april 1 joke ... you announcing that there > would finally be a proper input as well as font encoding for italian! After that can we have ascii please? Best Martin ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book: A summary
On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 6:13 PM, Yet Another ConTeXt user wrote: > On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 1:14 PM, John Haltiwanger > wrote: >> On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 3:58 PM, Yet Another ConTeXt user >> wrote: >> >>> Pick up a pen and go 'n write >>> On any part of ConTeXt that you like >>> >>> A wiki article, a blog post, are good places to start >>> People reading them will relish the knowledge it imparts > > Or be brave and reach salvation > Like John, use ConTeXt as a topic of your dissertation > >> You forgot to mention the part where someone said he was planning to >> do these things ;) > > Corrected :D :D ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book: A summary
2010/4/3 Idris Samawi Hamid ادريس سماوي حامد : > On Sat, 03 Apr 2010 09:58:01 -0600, Yet Another ConTeXt user > wrote: > >> (Actually when I was writing this chronology >> Irdis was thinking about a typographical ontology) > > Who is this Irdis? Oh, my heart now bleeds That I couldn't spell the name of Prof Hamid ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book: A summary
On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 2:18 PM, Hans Hagen wrote: > On 3-4-2010 8:13, Yet Another ConTeXt user wrote: >> >> On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 1:14 PM, John Haltiwanger >> wrote: >>> >>> On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 3:58 PM, Yet Another ConTeXt user >>> wrote: >>> Pick up a pen and go 'n write On any part of ConTeXt that you like A wiki article, a blog post, are good places to start People reading them will relish the knowledge it imparts >> >> Or be brave and reach salvation >> Like John, use ConTeXt as a topic of your dissertation >> >>> You forgot to mention the part where someone said he was planning to >>> do these things ;) >> >> Corrected :D > > can you add the poem to the wiki? Not me ... The wiki logs IP addresses. But other's should feel free to add it to the wiki. -- A ConTeXt user ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book: A summary
On 3-4-2010 8:13, Yet Another ConTeXt user wrote: On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 1:14 PM, John Haltiwanger wrote: On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 3:58 PM, Yet Another ConTeXt user wrote: Pick up a pen and go 'n write On any part of ConTeXt that you like A wiki article, a blog post, are good places to start People reading them will relish the knowledge it imparts Or be brave and reach salvation Like John, use ConTeXt as a topic of your dissertation You forgot to mention the part where someone said he was planning to do these things ;) Corrected :D can you add the poem to the wiki? - Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl - ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] Hans' presentation: using plain TEX (from TUG 2009) [apologies if OT]
On 3-4-2010 7:51, Graham Douglas wrote: So, is it possible to find and load .afm/.pfb with your luatex-plain example. Is that font machinery included in luatex-plain? the 'generic' code is only providing opentype support and type1/afm goes via the regular tex specific tfm route and believe me: i don't even want to know how plain users of latex users deal with type 1 as it's already messy enough in context; keep in mind that when one uses type 1 one often operates in the 8 bit environment and therefore in font encoding land; of course you can convert a type 1 into an open type font using fontforge context mkiv can deal with afm/type1 but this is rather context specific and i'm not going to impose context methods and strategies as i'm pretty sure that non context users are not that willing to adapt to context methods sticking to type 1 is a bad idea anyway and the less it is supported in the new engines the better as it forces users to move on the same is true for math ... the loader does load math fonts but math support is always rather macro package specific so one needs to define whatever needed (families, symbols etc) the way uses in the specific macro package (the same applies here .. in a few years all math fonts will be available in open type) for instance in the lua-latex code, they use the context otf loader for open type but it gets encapsulated in latex ways of defining and using and as type1 handling is already present in latex (and is shared with xetex code i assume) it is not related to lua etc at all, so there is no need for additional code concerning plain: plain has no font system so there's nothing to hook code in and as soon as one starts to make a system one should wonder if using plain is a good idea; it does not gain you much using plain instead of context concernign context being large ... occasionally i do experiment with metatex, a more layered approach for making smaller formats but that's a long term effort If so, can you suggest why the luatex-plain example might be failing with the .afm/.pfb files? because you need to load the tfm file (which is probably someplace in your tex tree) Hans - Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl - ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book: A summary
On Sat, 03 Apr 2010 09:58:01 -0600, Yet Another ConTeXt user wrote: (Actually when I was writing this chronology Irdis was thinking about a typographical ontology) Who is this Irdis? Anyway, this is beyond "thinking about it" ;-) Best wishes Idris -- Professor Idris Samawi Hamid, Editor-in-Chief International Journal of Shi`i Studies Department of Philosophy Colorado State University Fort Collins, CO 80523 ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book: A summary
On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 1:14 PM, John Haltiwanger wrote: > On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 3:58 PM, Yet Another ConTeXt user > wrote: > >> Pick up a pen and go 'n write >> On any part of ConTeXt that you like >> >> A wiki article, a blog post, are good places to start >> People reading them will relish the knowledge it imparts Or be brave and reach salvation Like John, use ConTeXt as a topic of your dissertation > You forgot to mention the part where someone said he was planning to > do these things ;) Corrected :D ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
[NTG-context] Hans' presentation: using plain TEX (from TUG 2009) [apologies if OT]
Dear Hans, Taco et al
I hope this is the appropriate place to ask my question
--- if not, my apologies.
I've compiled LuaTeX on Windows and have been using Hans'
presentation "using plain TEX" (from TUG 2009) to construct
a minimal working runtime environment based on plain tex.
Basically, a hand-coded texmf.cnf and a minimal (non-ConTeXt)
environment/TDS constructed around the "build" directory created by
build.sh.
The reason for doing this is to start with a setup
which is the minimum possible, as a way to learn.
ConTeXt is very powerful and orders of magnitude more complex
than plain (obviously...) so I needed to strip that away, for now.
It seems to work well, so far.
My question relates to fonts. In the luatex-plain example:
\input plain
\directlua {tex.enableprimitives('', tex.extraprimitives())}
\pdfoutput=1
\everyjob \expandafter {%
\the\everyjob
\input luatex-basics\relax
\input luatex-fonts\relax
\input luatex-mplib\relax
}
\edef\fmtversion{\fmtversion+luatex}
===> luatex --ini luatex-plain.tex
You include some ConTeXt font machinery which I'd like
to experiment with using fonts I have in .afm/.pfb format only.
I ran
mtxrun --script font --names
to generate a font name database (luatex-fonts-names.lua)
["mappings"]={
["aharonibold"]={ "Aharoni Bold", "C:/Windows/fonts/ahronbd.ttf" },
["andalus"]={ "Andalus", "C:/Windows/fonts/andlso.ttf" },
["angsananew"]={ "Angsana New", "C:/Windows/fonts/angsa.ttf" },
["angsananewbold"]={ "Angsana New Bold", "C:/Windows/fonts/angsab.ttf"
<>
and copied it across to my plain tex texmf tree.
Works fine, PDF outputs perfectly, so it enables lots more fonts in the
plain format. However, the database is clearly restricted to TrueType
and OpenType fonts so my question is:
Does the font machinery included by:
\input luatex-basics\relax
\input luatex-fonts\relax
\input luatex-mplib\relax
provide support for afm/pfb fonts?
TrueType etc are OK like this:
\font\testf=[arialbolditalicmt] at 12pt
(name taken from database)
However, as soon as I try to use this with afm/pfb files
it fails, unable to find the metrics.
For example:
\font\testa=file:MinionRegularItalic_wt350_wd450_op10 at 34pt
It may be potentially bad names that I'm using with underscores
(they are all named like this Minion_wtX_wdY_opZ)
(X,Y,Z are values for weight, width and optical size)
But it also failed with simple font names.
I checked that the fonts can be found:
\directlua {
local found =
kpse.find_file("MinionRegularItalic_wt350_wd450_op10","afm")
tex.print("$$"..found.."$$")
local ifound =
kpse.find_file("MinionRegularItalic_wt350_wd450_op10","type1 fonts")
tex.print("$$"..ifound.."$$")
}
($$ is a silly hack due to the _)
So, is it possible to find and load .afm/.pfb with your luatex-plain
example. Is that font machinery included in luatex-plain?
If so, can you suggest why the luatex-plain example
might be failing with the .afm/.pfb files?
I would be very grateful for any insights you can provide.
Many, many thanks in advance.
And another busy day on the list!!!
Warm wishes
Graham
___
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___
Re: [NTG-context] (lua?)latex module ( The ConTeXt book)
On 3-4-2010 7:19, luigi scarso wrote: On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 7:15 PM, Hans Hagen wrote: ah .. woul dhav emade a nice april 1 joke ... you announcing that there would finally be a proper input as well as font encoding for italian! Uh? who needs them ? never had a problem with italian& context ah, so you would actually have considered it a serious joke then -) Hans - Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl - ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] (lua?)latex module ( The ConTeXt book)
me neither. Should I ? :) -a- On Apr 3, 2010, at 7:19 PM, luigi scarso wrote: On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 7:15 PM, Hans Hagen wrote: ah .. woul dhav emade a nice april 1 joke ... you announcing that there would finally be a proper input as well as font encoding for italian! Uh? who needs them ? never had a problem with italian & context -- luigi ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___ -- Andrea Valle -- CIRMA - DAMS Università degli Studi di Torino --> http://www.cirma.unito.it/andrea/ --> http://www.myspace.com/andreavalle --> http://www.flickr.com/photos/vanderaalle/ --> http://www.youtube.com/user/vanderaalle --> andrea.va...@unito.it -- " This is a very complicated case, Maude. You know, a lotta ins, a lotta outs, a lotta what-have-yous." (Jeffrey 'The Dude' Lebowski) ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] (lua?)latex module ( The ConTeXt book)
On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 7:15 PM, Hans Hagen wrote: > ah .. woul dhav emade a nice april 1 joke ... you announcing that there > would finally be a proper input as well as font encoding for italian! Uh? who needs them ? never had a problem with italian & context -- luigi ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] (lua?)latex module ( The ConTeXt book)
On 3-4-2010 7:09, luigi scarso wrote: but there is nothing which prevents you from using another one. or invent one by myself too --why not ? ah .. woul dhav emade a nice april 1 joke ... you announcing that there would finally be a proper input as well as font encoding for italian! Hans - Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl - ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book: A summary
On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 3:58 PM, Yet Another ConTeXt user wrote: > Pick up a pen and go 'n write > On any part of ConTeXt that you like > > A wiki article, a blog post, are good places to start > People reading them will relish the knowledge it imparts You forgot to mention the part where someone said he was planning to do these things ;) I literally haven't had time to launch some real projects using ConTeXt. Everything so far has been ad-hoc environment setups that look relatively decent. My first step is to learn (and document that learning) a project using the structure presented here http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Project_structure . I'll keep you posted. Also, I want to say that this kind of anonymous poetry is, to me, proof-positive of an excellent community. ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] (lua?)latex module ( The ConTeXt book)
On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 6:49 PM, Hans Hagen wrote: > On 3-4-2010 6:44, Wolfgang Schuster wrote: >> >> Am 03.04.10 17:11, schrieb luigi scarso: You said encodings are gone in mkiv but this isn't true, >>> >>> id est ? >> >> \enableregime[latin1] >> \starttext >> AOUÄÖÜ >> \stoptext acceptable in mkii horror in mkiv >> >> When encodins are really gone this should fail with mkiv >> but what you get as output is 'AOUÄÖU' what means encodings >> aren't gone. It's recommended to use UTF-8 encoded input >> but there is nothing which prevents you from using another one. or invent one by myself too --why not ? > indeed and there is no reason to drop backward compatibility in that respect yes yes , of course backward comp. But, apart this (which is important etc etc etc) any other issue ? I mean: I'm typesetting international pricelist from 7 years, it would be impossible to manage thing without unicode and context. If one submit a file in a known (iconv --list) encoding I convert it in unicode utf *before* and then process with mkiv. And iconv can be eventually link in lua, by a dynamic linking --- not need for peek and poke sources. Or it can be done in pure lua. Am I wrong ? Anyway I do the rules --- only one input encoding: unicode utf-8 . Sorry for the others. > > of course font (and math) encodings are completely gone unicode input & uncode fonts are the news --- you typeset what you see I understand that ``correct'' is the right way but please “correct” is better (the perfect way) (I mean U+201C LEFT DOUBLE QUOTATION MARK correct U+201D RIGHT DOUBLE QUOTATION MARK ) -- luigi ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] (lua?)latex module ( The ConTeXt book)
On 3-4-2010 6:44, Wolfgang Schuster wrote: Am 03.04.10 17:11, schrieb luigi scarso: You said encodings are gone in mkiv but this isn't true, id est ? \enableregime[latin1] \starttext AOUÄÖÜ \stoptext When encodins are really gone this should fail with mkiv but what you get as output is 'AOUÄÖU' what means encodings aren't gone. It's recommended to use UTF-8 encoded input but there is nothing which prevents you from using another one. indeed and there is no reason to drop backward compatibility in that respect of course font (and math) encodings are completely gone Hans - Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl - ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] (lua?)latex module ( The ConTeXt book)
Am 03.04.10 17:11, schrieb luigi scarso: You said encodings are gone in mkiv but this isn't true, id est ? \enableregime[latin1] \starttext AOUÄÖÜ \stoptext When encodins are really gone this should fail with mkiv but what you get as output is 'AOUÄÖU' what means encodings aren't gone. It's recommended to use UTF-8 encoded input but there is nothing which prevents you from using another one. Wolfgang ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] Typographical Engineering in Context
On Sat, 03 Apr 2010 08:41:31 -0600, John Haltiwanger wrote: 2010/4/3 Idris Samawi Hamid ادريس سماوي حامد : It is a book on ConTeXt, but NOT a ConTeXtBook, ConTeXt Companion, or other clone. Rather, it aims to introduce Context as a general tool for typographical and typesetting engineering. Some of the philosophy of book design and layout will be discussed, and it will contain a strong reference to commands etc. As the unique nature of typographical programming has lead it to under-documentation, I want to say that maintaining this as a central focus is a brilliant idea. Will Section II involve describing some detail important aspects of ConTeXt's internals? Let's distinguish typographical engineering from typographical programming. This will not be a book on the latter per se. Typographical engineering can be done by a non-programmer -- structured and automated processing using the high-level commands of Context. Typographic programming is an advanced topic, for which this book can serve as an introduction. So there may be some introduction to the ConTeXt internals, but nothing too indepth. Hopefully there will be successors to this first book which build on the foundation in different ways, or which or written fro a programmer-audience from the start. So no knowledge or familiarity with TeX is assumed at all. We will cover some advanced topics as well, including introductions to luatex scripting etc As this is precisely my situation, perhaps I can offer you the benefit of a test-able target audience? Today I am already looking into the best route to learning TeX/mkiv in a holistic (ie not just looking for the 'recipe' I need to meet a given deadline). I have just entered full-time thesis mode, so the question begins Should I just sit down and read the TeXBook? For typographic programming, of course the TeXBook is, if no indispensable, then extremely useful. OTOH, we need a luaTeXBook that describes the eTeX extensions, the omega-aleph extensions, and luatex's own extensions, not to mention using the lua scripting language itself. (something that will be done regardless, it's just a question as what is most worthwhile to Getting Something Done Right Now) or would it be that the LuaTeX manual is more directly applicable? Or, perhaps, a chapter from your book? ;) I want to have one chapter on advanced techniques that includes an introduction to typographic programming in TeX -- including the primitive extensions -- and lua. But that will have to be expanded to a full book later on by real programmers like Wolfgang or Luigi. I was not planning to announce this for some time yet, but given the buzz around the topic on ConTeXt documentation Hans thought it would be a good moment to introduce this project and to get your feedback. So please use this thread to make suggestions: What would you all like to see covered in the planned book project: Typographical Ontology and Engineering: Structured and Automated Authoring in Context I look forward to your feedback and suggestions! I think the more you source it with the community, the stronger it will become. That is, our ignorance will most likely help you refine it in ways you wouldn't have expected to need to. But in other ways as well. For example, the appendix on workflows can gain a lot from community input I'd think. Can you explain what you mean by "appendix on workflows"? A community model for feedback on the book would be useful. I don't want it too open at the moment -- can slow down development and I want to get this DONE. But maybe a select audience of test-able volunteers will be the way to go... thnx for that suggestion! Best wishes Idris -- Professor Idris Samawi Hamid, Editor-in-Chief International Journal of Shi`i Studies Department of Philosophy Colorado State University Fort Collins, CO 80523 ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
[NTG-context] The ConTeXt book: A summary
If you were surprised, like me Fifty emails, in your inbox to see Let me help you with a summary Of what happened, using a poor excuse for poetry It was the day of fools When Arthur tried to be cool In ConTeXt mailing list he shouted, "Look I am going to write a ConTeXt book!" Everyone was happy and had a thrill Till Martin said, "it is the first of April" His joke ruined, Arthur was sad He said Martin, this is bad Other users were also upset, taken for a ride The lack of a book, is not a matter of pride There were cries and a big fuss I was just getting started, said Russ After that comments did pour Its not even funny, said Gour All of us would be out of luck If Hans were to be hit by a bus! Citing Douglas Adams said Taco That will make the bus, a shamed loco In time back it 'ill go And slam its breaks, like a pro Writing documentation is no fun It that the reason it is shun Even if you do write something Does anyone even read the damn thing? Taco lamented all he hears is that 'it sucks' Demotivated, he may just pass the buck "Oh please, don't let the project slack If you write something, we will give you feedback" This circle of arguments is always repeated Whenever the question of documentation gets tweeted A new conspiracy theory was added this time "They want to keep it a secret," it's a crime I am sick and tired of all the pretext Why do you think anyone should write a book on ConTeXt? Taco and Hans, their hands are full Everyone else is just using a tool (Actually when I was writing this chronology Irdis was thinking about a typographical ontology) If you think that the documentation is lacking Do something, rather than slacking Here's a suggestion, if I may give to thee Follow it, and you'll be a ConTeXt prodigee Pick up a pen and go 'n write On any part of ConTeXt that you like A wiki article, a blog post, are good places to start People reading them will relish the knowledge it imparts Write an example, show how things work Don't just hide there and lurk If nothing else, write about what you find confusing Others writing documentation may find it motivating On this note, this summary I'll end You were not offended, I'll pretend Finally a request, if I may Let me be anonymous, please, I pray A promise in passing, I'll also make Someday a ConTeXt book or tutorial, I'll bake I am waiting for time and a muse At least, that is my excuse -- A ConTeXt User ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] Typographical Engineering in Context
Idris Hamid wrote: == FYI: I am presently working on a book: Typographical Ontology and Engineering: Structured and Automated Authoring in Context The basic outline is I. Ontology and Theory II. Typographical Engineering in Context [including special topics, advanced techniques of luatex, opentype etc] III. A Typographical Engineer's Reference [organization of options and commands, glossary] IV. Appendix: Authoring in Notepad++ [or some other tool] V. Indices I look forward to your feedback and suggestions! Best wishes Idris === Hello Idris A chapter or appendix on the fundamentals of Unicode A (big...) chapter on typesetting Arabic :-) would be great --- I've been self-teaching/studying Arabic for a couple of years, time permitting. I hope one day to use ConTeXt to write-up my study notes --- especially the formal grammar which is (need I say) vast! It would be great to be able to document tools whereby you could mark-up any Arabic word (noun, adjective verb etc) to show certain parts in colour or add overbraces/underbraces etc. Colouring the glyphs or other ways of annotating the Arabic text to help your own documenting and understanding of the rules. I'm sure you know what I mean!! Of course, it would be impractical to cover all possibilities but the core task of accessing the node lists (and (maybe) by attributes) to introduce special effects onto the Arabic glyphs. Tools to access the vowelling --- e.g., colour the vowels or add boxes around them etc --- purely for the purposes of aiding understanding/memory etc. Anything that could help students/learners of Arabic to write really well typeset notes, with the Arabic text "annotated" to highlight things that you want to really stress. Especially if it is some tricky point of grammar and you want to really make sure you write a careful account of your hard-earned understanding so you don't forget next time!!! Lots of node-list processing :-) Warm regards Graham ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] InteractionsBar - another shot
On 3-4-2010 4:08, Willi Egger wrote: Hi Mathias, I played with your example. It looks like that the interactionbuttons option "width" works differentlty in MKIV. When replacing this with .9\textwidth the buttons are placed over the whole area. However there is no spacing between the buttons. So we must ask Hans what has changed ... i remember changing something for the sake of configureablility but forgot what (i was actually thinking of moving that bit of code to a module and extend it it a bit) as i had to switch to do something else Hans - Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl - ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
On 3-4-2010 3:49, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
Am 03.04.10 15:42, schrieb luigi scarso:
And what's with the Lua part you want?
encoding
\usepackage[latin1]{inputenc} -> \enableregime[latin1]
and convert latex encoding names to context names but that's possible
with pure tex code
who cares about that? will you then start using latex commands instead?
and i'm pretty sure that although it might sound similar that the
appeoached are different
font management
i doubt latex’s and context’s system can be mixed (without ugly hacks) or
do you mean a higher system like fontspec and luaotfload
name space to avoid macro collision
tex macros or lua functions (can you be more concrete)?
again a macro package specific problem; in context we have namespaces
already for a long time and it works ok
and believe me, there's not much to share .. it's way more easy for me
write code from scratch in a context way
Hans
-
Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
| www.pragma-pod.nl
-
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the
Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
On 3-4-2010 3:42, luigi scarso wrote: On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 3:36 PM, Wolfgang Schuster wrote: Am 03.04.10 15:01, schrieb luigi scarso: 2. What do you expect from a LuaLaTeX module? \usemodule[latex] and then all things in latex/base/* work ok (and only these ones). And what's with the Lua part you want? encoding font management name space to avoid macro collision well, latex and context differ fundamentally and i'm not going to waste time on making things that can be shared (the font stuff is an exception and i only do the plain part; there might be more plain modules eventually); just look at the mp to pdf code ... you don't want to know what i had to do over time to keep it running in all macro packages and, as said the approach, interfaces, integratin of latex is so different that it makes no sense either; of course if i'm paid well i can consider making generic derivates but that's unlikely to happen my energy goes in context. (period) Hans - Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl - ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
On 3-4-2010 2:56, Gour wrote: On Sat, 03 Apr 2010 14:45:51 +0200 "Alain" == Alain Delmotte wrote: Alain> I think Taco didn't say *at all* that books are not important; Alain> he just said that the books will not automatically increase the Alain> use. So you think that having book(s) will leave the number of the ConText users on the same level or maybe decrease it? i think it's hard to draw conclusions .. for instance if someone has to use tex once for a thesis he counts as user but will never use tex again probably i've seen my share of tex users and am pretty convinced that many users on this list are non standard in the sense that they like to make their own look and feel (contrary to using say latex for a one shot document in a prescribed style) .. in that sense i think that the crowd here is not the majority of tex users but definitely using it in advanced ways ... just look at mkiv ... i'm really pleased that so many use it already which helps us a lot with developing luatex as well Hans - Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl - ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] Error under Ubuntu Lnux
On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 11:05, Alain Delmotte wrote: > >> When did you last update the minimals? LuaTeX beta-0.50.0 should not >> be there any more. >> > > Well! I installed it Thursday 01/04 for the first time (but I confess: I > didn't update since!!) > But I think Taco gave the answer, I'll wait. You don't need to wait since the latest version should be there since Thursday the 1st (you installed the minimals a couple of hours too early :). Mojca ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] (lua?)latex module ( The ConTeXt book)
On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 5:04 PM, Wolfgang Schuster wrote: > > You said encodings are gone in mkiv but this isn't true, id est ? -- luigi ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] Typographical Engineering in Context
On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 4:58 PM, John Haltiwanger wrote: > Would that make it feasible to somehow chain Parrot's Lua > to LuaTeX? parrot ~ luajit cfr. http://luajit.org/ Maybe some day luatex will be jitluatex but I don't see here a priority --- luajit is x86 specific for example. My point of view is not so new COM .NET , "plug-in" all share the same concept of dynamic loading --- but the don't know the concept of typographical programming. -- luigi ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] (lua?)latex module ( The ConTeXt book)
Am 03.04.10 16:55, schrieb luigi scarso: I care only unicode utf-8 This wasn't the question ;) ?? You said encodings are gone in mkiv but this isn't true, ehat you use or what's the preferred encoding is another topic. Wolfgang ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] Typographical Engineering in Context
2010/4/3 Idris Samawi Hamid ادريس سماوي حامد : > Hi luigi, > Now that may be TOO advanced for this book :-) though we want to have a few > examples illustrating advanced possibilities http://wiki.contextgarden.net/User:Luigi.scarso/luatex_lunatic -- luigi ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] Typographical Engineering in Context
Hi luigi, On Sat, 03 Apr 2010 08:41:47 -0600, luigi scarso wrote: As a computer engineer, one of the most import point of luatex-ConTeXMKIV is the possibility offered by Lua of an easy binding with external C/C++ shared library. This adds another dimension to literate programming, and in some circumstances eliminates the separation between documentation and code. For example, you can write an article in mkiv about Computational Commutative Algebra and the article *is* the program because is processed by the binding of luatex to a comp.comm.alg library Or you can write a text about electrical net and, if you have a binding to a spice library, the text is also the program that resolve the net and show the result (in a graphical manner also, thank to mplib). I'm pretty sure that there are others examples in mechanical sectors, financial sectors, combinatorial area and so on, maybe logic too. CPU power and disk storage are not a problem: 8cores-8GigaByte-1Tera computer has already reach the mass-market and context mkiv and luatex are well designed. Now that may be TOO advanced for this book :-) though we want to have a few examples illustrating advanced possibilities Best wishes Idris -- Professor Idris Samawi Hamid, Editor-in-Chief International Journal of Shi`i Studies Department of Philosophy Colorado State University Fort Collins, CO 80523 ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] Typographical Engineering in Context
On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 2:41 PM, luigi scarso wrote: > As a computer engineer, one of the most import point of luatex-ConTeXMKIV > is the possibility offered by Lua of an easy binding with external > C/C++ shared library. > This adds another dimension to literate programming, and in some > circumstances eliminates > the separation between documentation and code. > For example, you can write an article in mkiv about Computational > Commutative Algebra > and the article *is* the program because is processed by the binding > of luatex to a comp.comm.alg library > Or you can write a text about electrical net and, if you have a > binding to a spice library, the text is also the program > that resolve the net and show the result (in a graphical manner also, > thank to mplib). > I'm pretty sure that there are others examples in mechanical sectors, > financial sectors, combinatorial area and so on, > maybe logic too. > CPU power and disk storage are not a problem: > 8cores-8GigaByte-1Tera computer has already reach the mass-market > and context mkiv and luatex are well designed. I've been imagining what opportunities might be available via the Parrot platform, as there is a native Lua on the VM that could ostensibly share objects/classes/methods/code with any other language on the platform. Not sure what kind of bridging options will be available between Parrot and LuaTeX, but I think I remember something about being able to 'inject' Lua statements into the LuaTeX engine (at some point)? Would that make it feasible to somehow chain Parrot's Lua to LuaTeX? I'm not a true software engineer, just a self-taught tinkerer with wild ideas. I hadn't been thinking in such literate programming terms, but that sounds incredibly cool. 2010/4/3 John Haltiwanger : > > As this is precisely my situation, perhaps I can offer you the benefit > of a test-able target audience? Today I am already looking into the > best route to learning TeX/mkiv in a holistic (ie not just looking for > the 'recipe' I need to meet a given deadline). I have just entered > full-time thesis mode, so the question begins Should I just sit down > and read the TeXBook? (something that will be done regardless, it's > just a question as what is most worthwhile to Getting Something Done > Right Now) or would it be that the LuaTeX manual is more directly > applicable? Or, perhaps, a chapter from your book? ;) Sorry to reply to myself, but the send button got pressed a bit early. The point is, I want to approach TeX/mkiv in a holistic way. I don't necessarily want to be mired in TeX constraints when it seems LuaTeX will be a) easier b) more relevant c) more powerful. However, I can imagine that knowing the former is important to understanding/learning the latter. Anyway, at the moment I'm content to read Taco's new typography chapter and add a few notes :) ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] (lua?)latex module ( The ConTeXt book)
@Taco
> I think the current latex module does
>
> \def\begin#1{\csname start#1\endcsname}
> \def\end#1{\csname stop#1\endcsname}
>
> but that all depends on how much latex compatibility is
> really needed.
Only for latex/base/*
@Wolfgang
>>>Most input encodings are supported in mkiv, only a few (e.g. cyr and mac)
>>>are gone.
>>I care only unicode utf-8
> This wasn't the question ;)
??
--
luigi
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Re: [NTG-context] (lua?)latex module ( The ConTeXt book)
Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
Am 03.04.10 16:16, schrieb luigi scarso:
name space to avoid macro collision
Possible with internal commands but you can run into problems with
the user commands, a problem is also how LaTeX handle environments
For \begin{env} LaTeX expects a macro with the name \ end for
\end{env} a macro with the name \end.
Lua can be more effective than TeX here ?
Lua can't do anything with conflicts at the user level.
For a LaTeX module you can do something like
\begin{env} -> \??lm:begin:env
\end{env} -> \??lm:end:env
I think the current latex module does
\def\begin#1{\csname start#1\endcsname}
\def\end#1{\csname stop#1\endcsname}
but that all depends on how much latex compatibility is
really needed.
Best wishes,
Taco
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Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
Am 03.04.10 16:16, schrieb luigi scarso:
name space to avoid macro collision
Possible with internal commands but you can run into problems with
the user commands, a problem is also how LaTeX handle environments
For \begin{env} LaTeX expects a macro with the name \ end for
\end{env} a macro with the name \end.
Lua can be more effective than TeX here ?
Lua can't do anything with conflicts at the user level.
For a LaTeX module you can do something like
\begin{env} -> \??lm:begin:env
\end{env} -> \??lm:end:env
encoding are gone
Most input encodings are supported in mkiv, only a few (e.g. cyr and mac) are
gone.
I care only unicode utf-8
This wasn't the question ;)
Wolfgang
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Re: [NTG-context] Typographical Engineering in Context
2010/4/3 Idris Samawi Hamid ادريس سماوي حامد : > Typographical Ontology and Engineering: > Structured and Automated Authoring in Context > > NB: MKIV ONLY! > > The basic outline is > > > I. Ontology and Theory > II. Typographical Engineering in Context [including special topics, advanced > techniques of luatex, opentype etc] > III. A Typographical Engineer's Reference [organization of options and > commands, glossary] > IV. Appendix: Authoring in Notepad++ [or some other tool] > V. Indices > > > So no knowledge or familiarity with TeX is assumed at all. We will cover > some advanced topics as well, including introductions to luatex scripting > etc As a computer engineer, one of the most import point of luatex-ConTeXMKIV is the possibility offered by Lua of an easy binding with external C/C++ shared library. This adds another dimension to literate programming, and in some circumstances eliminates the separation between documentation and code. For example, you can write an article in mkiv about Computational Commutative Algebra and the article *is* the program because is processed by the binding of luatex to a comp.comm.alg library Or you can write a text about electrical net and, if you have a binding to a spice library, the text is also the program that resolve the net and show the result (in a graphical manner also, thank to mplib). I'm pretty sure that there are others examples in mechanical sectors, financial sectors, combinatorial area and so on, maybe logic too. CPU power and disk storage are not a problem: 8cores-8GigaByte-1Tera computer has already reach the mass-market and context mkiv and luatex are well designed. -- luigi ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] Typographical Engineering in Context
2010/4/3 Idris Samawi Hamid ادريس سماوي حامد : > It is a book on ConTeXt, but NOT a ConTeXtBook, ConTeXt Companion, or other > clone. Rather, it aims to introduce Context as a general tool for > typographical and typesetting engineering. Some of the philosophy of book > design and layout will be discussed, and it will contain a strong reference > to commands etc. As the unique nature of typographical programming has lead it to under-documentation, I want to say that maintaining this as a central focus is a brilliant idea. Will Section II involve describing some detail important aspects of ConTeXt's internals? > NB: MKIV ONLY! > > The basic outline is > > > I. Ontology and Theory > II. Typographical Engineering in Context [including special topics, advanced > techniques of luatex, opentype etc] > III. A Typographical Engineer's Reference [organization of options and > commands, glossary] > IV. Appendix: Authoring in Notepad++ [or some other tool] > V. Indices > So no knowledge or familiarity with TeX is assumed at all. We will cover > some advanced topics as well, including introductions to luatex scripting > etc As this is precisely my situation, perhaps I can offer you the benefit of a test-able target audience? Today I am already looking into the best route to learning TeX/mkiv in a holistic (ie not just looking for the 'recipe' I need to meet a given deadline). I have just entered full-time thesis mode, so the question begins Should I just sit down and read the TeXBook? (something that will be done regardless, it's just a question as what is most worthwhile to Getting Something Done Right Now) or would it be that the LuaTeX manual is more directly applicable? Or, perhaps, a chapter from your book? ;) > I was not planning to announce this for some time yet, but given the buzz > around the topic on ConTeXt documentation Hans thought it would be a good > moment to introduce this project and to get your feedback. > > So please use this thread to make suggestions: > > What would you all like to see covered in the planned book project: > > Typographical Ontology and Engineering: Structured and Automated Authoring > in Context > I look forward to your feedback and suggestions! I think the more you source it with the community, the stronger it will become. That is, our ignorance will most likely help you refine it in ways you wouldn't have expected to need to. But in other ways as well. For example, the appendix on workflows can gain a lot from community input I'd think. ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
Am 03.04.10 15:51, schrieb Michael Saunders:
2. leftward protrusion fails
\definefontfeature[...][default][...,protrusion=quality,expansion=quality]
\setupalign[hanging,hz]
\showgrid % or \showframe
There is no leftward protrusion at all. Everything on the left edge
is flush with the margin, even 'T' and 'J'. Similarly:
Don't know what you mean, works here.
\definefontfeature[default][default][protrusion=quality]
\usetypescript[modern]
\setupbodyfont[modern]
\showframe
\starttext
\startbuffer
«text»\par
„text“\par
T\par
J\par
\stopbuffer
\getbuffer\setupalign[hanging]\getbuffer
\stoptext
3. protrusion fails in footnotes:
Even on the right edge. Hz isn't happening in them either.
You have to enable it separate for notes.
\setupnote[footnote][align={normal,hanging}]
5. footnotes break between pages
How do I stop this?
No example, no help!
9. \raisebox?
What is the proper way to raise or lower a bit of text? I just spent
a lot of trial and error to find this:
\inframed[frame=off,offset=.5pt,height=17.3pt]{--}
to raise my en-dashes a little when \setff{ac} (for all caps) didn't
work with one font.
\raisebox{1ex}{–}
What should ConTeXt do when your font doesn't provide the allcaps feature.
10. problematic characters in grid typesetting.
Unless I set grid=verytolerant, my 'Q' knocks the next line down a
notch. Is there a better way to deal with this?
You can change the height/depth ratio of a line.
\setupinterlinespace[height=0.6,depth=0.4]
Wolfgang
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Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
On Sat, Apr 03 2010, Michael Saunders wrote: > > > That's the feeling I'm getting. I'm finding it hard to do a lot of > > > basic things in Context. Maybe Context can do them and maybe it > > > can't, but there is no way to find out. > > > > Could you please provide a typical example? > > Here are ten: Hello Michael, Thanks, I see clearer now (my understanding of "basic" was different...). > 1. columns and marginal notes conflict: For some of the issues, it would be perhaps a good idea to make proper bug-reports (with minimal example of course). Cheers, Peter P.S.: Please consider fixing or changing your email client: it breaks the threads. -- Contact information: http://pmrb.free.fr/contact/ ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
[NTG-context] Typographical Engineering in Context
[Disclaimer: NOT a joke!] Dear gang, cabal, and knights of the context table, FYI: I am presently working on a book: Typographical Ontology and Engineering: Structured and Automated Authoring in Context It is a book on ConTeXt, but NOT a ConTeXtBook, ConTeXt Companion, or other clone. Rather, it aims to introduce Context as a general tool for typographical and typesetting engineering. Some of the philosophy of book design and layout will be discussed, and it will contain a strong reference to commands etc. NB: MKIV ONLY! The basic outline is I. Ontology and Theory II. Typographical Engineering in Context [including special topics, advanced techniques of luatex, opentype etc] III. A Typographical Engineer's Reference [organization of options and commands, glossary] IV. Appendix: Authoring in Notepad++ [or some other tool] V. Indices So no knowledge or familiarity with TeX is assumed at all. We will cover some advanced topics as well, including introductions to luatex scripting etc I was not planning to announce this for some time yet, but given the buzz around the topic on ConTeXt documentation Hans thought it would be a good moment to introduce this project and to get your feedback. So please use this thread to make suggestions: What would you all like to see covered in the planned book project: Typographical Ontology and Engineering: Structured and Automated Authoring in Context I look forward to your feedback and suggestions! Best wishes Idris -- Professor Idris Samawi Hamid, Editor-in-Chief International Journal of Shi`i Studies Department of Philosophy Colorado State University Fort Collins, CO 80523 ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 4:02 PM, Wolfgang Schuster
wrote:
> The code for luaotfload is taken from ConTeXt. A high level interface
> like fontspec is not so hard (see simplefonts)
yes, exactly what I'm thinking.
>and the information you
> need for optical sized fonts (like Latin Modern or Minion Pro) are there
> since November last year, e.g. this is the entry for LM Roman 12
>
> {
> designsize=120,
> familyname="latinmodernroman",
:
> width="normal",
> },
again yes
name space to avoid macro collision
> Possible with internal commands but you can run into problems with
> the user commands, a problem is also how LaTeX handle environments
> For \begin{env} LaTeX expects a macro with the name \ end for
> \end{env} a macro with the name \end.
Lua can be more effective than TeX here ?
>>encoding are gone
> Most input encodings are supported in mkiv, only a few (e.g. cyr and mac)
> are gone.
I care only unicode utf-8
--
luigi
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Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
Am 03.04.10 15:56, schrieb luigi scarso:
\usepackage[latin1]{inputenc} -> \enableregime[latin1]
encoding are gone
Most input encodings are supported in mkiv, only a few (e.g. cyr and
mac) are gone.
Wolfgang
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Re: [NTG-context] InteractionsBar - another shot
Hi Mathias,
I played with your example. It looks like that the interactionbuttons
option "width" works differentlty in MKIV. When replacing this with .9
\textwidth the buttons are placed over the whole area. However there
is no spacing between the buttons.
So we must ask Hans what has changed ...
Kind regards
Willi
On 2 Apr 2010, at 23:08, Matthias Weber wrote:
\def\InteractionButtons%
{\interactionbuttons
[width=40em,height=1em]
width=\.9\textwidth
[PreviousJump,NextJump,
firstpage,
firstsubpage,previouspage,nextpage,lastsubpage,
lastpage,
CloseDocument]}
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Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
Hi! Gour a écrit : On Sat, 03 Apr 2010 14:45:51 +0200 "Alain" == Alain Delmotte wrote: Alain> I think Taco didn't say *at all* that books are not important; Alain> he just said that the books will not automatically increase the Alain> use. So you think that having book(s) will leave the number of the ConText users on the same level or maybe decrease it? Can you read a sentence in full and not always cut out what doesn't interest you, or should I mark every word as important? I did write "will not automatically", I didn't say that books will leave the number of users on the same level. Alain> What is more important: having a very good program and wait for Alain> its documentation, or a very good documentation and a buggy Alain> program??? (user) docs brings new users... (dev) docs brings new devs... (some) users become devs... (more) devs increases bus-factor... Sure, once you have a full operational system! (user) docs brings new users who get problems from bugs or unfinished program... users drop out! No more devs, no more need for books!! And the publishers will thing like this! Alain Sincerely, Gour ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___ ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
Am 03.04.10 15:53, schrieb luigi scarso:
font managemen
i doubt latex’s and context’s system can be mixed (without ugly hacks) or
do you mean a higher system like fontspec and luaotfload
these ones
The code for luaotfload is taken from ConTeXt. A high level interface
like fontspec is not so hard (see simplefonts) and the information you
need for optical sized fonts (like Latin Modern or Minion Pro) are there
since November last year, e.g. this is the entry for LM Roman 12
{
designsize=120,
familyname="latinmodernroman",
filename="lmroman12-regular.otf",
fontname="lmroman12regular",
format="otf",
fullname="lmroman12regular",
maxsize=140,
minsize=110,
modifiers="12regular",
rawname="LMRoman12-Regular",
style="normal",
subfamily="regular",
variant="normal",
weight="normal",
width="normal",
},
name space to avoid macro collision
tex macros or lua functions (can you be more concrete)?
tex macros
Possible with internal commands but you can run into problems with
the user commands, a problem is also how LaTeX handle environments
For \begin{env} LaTeX expects a macro with the name \ end for
\end{env} a macro with the name \end.
Wolfgang
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Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 3:53 PM, luigi scarso wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 3:49 PM, Wolfgang Schuster
>> \usepackage[latin1]{inputenc} -> \enableregime[latin1]
encoding are gone
--
luigi
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Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 3:49 PM, Wolfgang Schuster
wrote:
> Am 03.04.10 15:42, schrieb luigi scarso:
>>>
>>> And what's with the Lua part you want?
>>>
>>
>> encoding
>>
>
> \usepackage[latin1]{inputenc} -> \enableregime[latin1]
>
> and convert latex encoding names to context names but that's possible with
> pure tex code
>>
>> font management
>>
>
> i doubt latex’s and context’s system can be mixed (without ugly hacks) or
> do you mean a higher system like fontspec and luaotfload
these ones
>> name space to avoid macro collision
> tex macros or lua functions (can you be more concrete)?
tex macros
--
luigi
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[NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
Wolfgang:
Thanks---I'll go over what I can of those this weekend and get back to
you and Taco about them in a few days.
Peter:
> > That's the feeling I'm getting. I'm finding it hard to do a lot of
> > basic things in Context. Maybe Context can do them and maybe it
> > can't, but there is no way to find out.
>
> Could you please provide a typical example?
Here are ten:
1. columns and marginal notes conflict:
\setupcolumns[n=2,rule=off,distance=20pt]
\setupinmargin[style=\ss,align=outer]
\startcolumns
text text \inmargin{text} text
\stopcolumns
The marginal notes always print to the left of the column. This works
perfectly for the left column, but fails for the right column---they
overprint the text of the left column.
2. leftward protrusion fails
\definefontfeature[...][default][...,protrusion=quality,expansion=quality]
\setupalign[hanging,hz]
\showgrid % or \showframe
There is no leftward protrusion at all. Everything on the left edge
is flush with the margin, even 'T' and 'J'. Similarly:
3. protrusion fails in footnotes:
Even on the right edge. Hz isn't happening in them either.
4. interactive headers/footers
I'd like to make my header and footer texts hyperlinks to the head
that they point to. I'm trying this:
\setupinteraction[state=start,color=darkgreen,contrastcolor=darkred]
\setupinteractionscreen[option=fit,view=fit]
\newcommand{\gmpt}{\getmarking[pt]}
\newcommand{\swpt}{{\goto{\getmarking[part]}[\gmpt]}}
\setupfootertexts[margin][\rlap\swpt\hfill][\hfill\llap{\getmarking[chapter]}]
(By the way, I'm resorting to this misdirection with the \newcommands
only because Context gives me an error whenever it finds nested
brackets. E.g.,
\newcommand{\swpt}{{\goto{\getmarking[part]}[\getmarking[pt]]}}
would fail.)
Then, at the beginning of a part, I have to add the extra marking to
carry the reference in the 'pt' marker (right?), e.g.:
\part[pt:one]{One}\marking[pt]{pt:one}
But this does not work. (By the way, all of this \defineXYZ,
\setupXYZ, \XYZ stuff is confusing. It seems like there is some kind
of purpose to this pattern of naming, but I can't find what it is.)
So, I experimented:
{\about[pt:one]}
(a particular reference) works
{\about[\gmpt]}
(referring through the marking) fails---so I can find no automatic way
of doing it.
(By the way, why are my footnote markers all green---shouldn't they be
red? could I make them black? Why does clicking on them sometimes
send me to a random page?)
5. footnotes break between pages
How do I stop this?
6. hyphenation between pages.
How do I stop this?
7. opening state
I'd like my document to open in Adobe reader showing one page at a
time (as if "click to open one page at at time" had been pressed).
8. description
I spent the evening trying to get \definedescription to set a
description on a line of its own followed by an explanatory paragraph.
I tried most of the keys/values. I never got anything that looked
good, let alone close to what I wanted. Finally, I spent a few
seconds writing a humble LaTeX-esque line:
\newcommand{\defhead}{\switchtobodyfont[gillSB,12pt]\ss}
\newcommand{\desclist}[2]{\crlf{\noindent\defhead #1\emspace#2}\crlf}
that did the job.
9. \raisebox?
What is the proper way to raise or lower a bit of text? I just spent
a lot of trial and error to find this:
\inframed[frame=off,offset=.5pt,height=17.3pt]{--}
to raise my en-dashes a little when \setff{ac} (for all caps) didn't
work with one font.
10. problematic characters in grid typesetting.
Unless I set grid=verytolerant, my 'Q' knocks the next line down a
notch. Is there a better way to deal with this?
> > switch and finding it practically impossible. I imagine many people
> > try, spend a week trying to get it to work and then give up and go
> > back to LaTeX.
>
> Why do you?
Because I think it might be possible to produce better output with
Context than with LaTeX (is this true?). My experience has been quite
different from yours. I got up an running with LaTeX in a week (in
1995), found the documentation clear and almost any effect I wanted
easy to achieve with well-documented packages that never seriously
conflicted. This, on the other hand, is a nightmare.
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Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
Am 03.04.10 15:42, schrieb luigi scarso:
And what's with the Lua part you want?
encoding
\usepackage[latin1]{inputenc} -> \enableregime[latin1]
and convert latex encoding names to context names but that's possible
with pure tex code
font management
i doubt latex’s and context’s system can be mixed (without ugly hacks) or
do you mean a higher system like fontspec and luaotfload
name space to avoid macro collision
tex macros or lua functions (can you be more concrete)?
Wolfgang
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Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 3:36 PM, Wolfgang Schuster wrote: > Am 03.04.10 15:01, schrieb luigi scarso: >>> >>> 2. What do you expect from a LuaLaTeX module? >>> >> >> \usemodule[latex] >> and then all things in latex/base/* work ok (and only these ones). >> > > And what's with the Lua part you want? encoding font management name space to avoid macro collision -- luigi ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
Am 03.04.10 15:01, schrieb luigi scarso: 2. What do you expect from a LuaLaTeX module? \usemodule[latex] and then all things in latex/base/* work ok (and only these ones). And what's with the Lua part you want? Wolfgang ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 3:09 PM, Taco Hoekwater wrote: > luigi scarso wrote: >> >> On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 2:03 PM, Wolfgang Schuster >> wrote: >> >>> 2. What do you expect from a LuaLaTeX module? >> >> \usemodule[latex] >> and then all things in latex/base/* work ok (and only these ones). > > Sounds like a good goal, but it will need a new maintainer, I think. > > However, Brooks seems to have left us, and I myself lost my interest in > LaTeX compatibility (I wrote a fair bit of the module code, back when I > had a commercial project that was originally latex and wanted to be > able to cut and paste esp. the tabular material). The interesting part for me is that most of lua code is already here in some form. BTW luaLaTeX team is up and running these days, I'm following it because this year EUROTEX meeting will be in Italy where latex community is strong (almost like ConTeXt Italian community of course :-) ) and humanist-oriented . -- luigi ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
luigi scarso wrote: On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 2:03 PM, Wolfgang Schuster wrote: 2. What do you expect from a LuaLaTeX module? \usemodule[latex] and then all things in latex/base/* work ok (and only these ones). Sounds like a good goal, but it will need a new maintainer, I think. However, Brooks seems to have left us, and I myself lost my interest in LaTeX compatibility (I wrote a fair bit of the module code, back when I had a commercial project that was originally latex and wanted to be able to cut and paste esp. the tabular material). Best wishes, Taco ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 2:03 PM, Wolfgang Schuster wrote: > 2. What do you expect from a LuaLaTeX module? \usemodule[latex] and then all things in latex/base/* work ok (and only these ones). -- luigi ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
On Sat, 03 Apr 2010 14:45:51 +0200 >> "Alain" == Alain Delmotte wrote: Alain> I think Taco didn't say *at all* that books are not important; Alain> he just said that the books will not automatically increase the Alain> use. So you think that having book(s) will leave the number of the ConText users on the same level or maybe decrease it? Alain> What is more important: having a very good program and wait for Alain> its documentation, or a very good documentation and a buggy Alain> program??? (user) docs brings new users... (dev) docs brings new devs... (some) users become devs... (more) devs increases bus-factor... Sincerely, Gour -- Gour | Hlapicina, Croatia | GPG key: F96FF5F6 signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
the 2 cents of a lurker :) if the knowledge is in my head, how come that wolfgang can answer most questions (and if he couldn't we'd have a real problem as at least i have not more time) Actually, I don't need so much documentation (well, it's never enough indeed), I'd say I need a tutorial to be able to know how to get documentation. Maybe how to browse code source. This is just my experience, for what it worth: I always find very good recipes, and fast help by this wonderful list on specific topics, but I don't feel to be able to really generalize my knowledge. It's easy to have good stuff with ConTeXt, much more complicated to make it do what you want. Maybe I just need some good lectures I missed. So maybe I need pointers. Best and thanks for your work -a- -- Andrea Valle -- CIRMA - DAMS Università degli Studi di Torino --> http://www.cirma.unito.it/andrea/ --> http://www.myspace.com/andreavalle --> http://www.flickr.com/photos/vanderaalle/ --> http://www.youtube.com/user/vanderaalle --> andrea.va...@unito.it -- " This is a very complicated case, Maude. You know, a lotta ins, a lotta outs, a lotta what-have-yous." (Jeffrey 'The Dude' Lebowski) ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
Taco wrote: == Over the past four years, it has been next to impossible to get people interested in the reference manual project, not even for something as simple as reading the rewritten chapters and telling me what they think about it. Still, at the same time, complaints about the quality of the documentation have been a constant recurrence on the mailing list. I know the argument that beginners do not understand the source well enough to write a manual themselves is valid. But it is equally true that a person that *does* know the source enough to write the manual is not the correct person to proofread it. The near total lack of feedback had led me to believe that most complainers are in it just for the complaining. This is extremely demotivating, and so I have almost given up on doing documentation at all. I mean, what's the point if nobody really cares? There are many more interesting things to do in life than work for weeks on end on revising chapters nobody appears willing to read anyway. Best wishes, Taco Hi Taco Just a few words of encouragement :-) You can be assured that the reference manual is definitely not going unused. In my current quest to learn LuaTeX I refer to it almost daily. Just for the record, I work in scientific publishing but my interest in LuaTeX is purely and completely personal and not at all related to my "day job". I too would be willing to help "improve" the manual, especially to help clarify issues which may be difficult for a beginner (like me!) to understand. I have some ideas for additional material which could help to link or bridge a number of key topics/concepts in order to better understand the "architecture" of LuaTeX. Sort of "glue material". You are absolutely right to say that, as the person writing the code, it is extremely difficult to be the one solely responsible for preparing the manual. Apart from anything, with such a pround and in-depth knowledge of the innards of TeX it must be extremely difficult for you to step back and take the perspective of someone who is just stating out. And, frankly, writing documentation of any sort can be pretty dull. Furthermore, I think that we'd all benefit from you spending most of your time doing what you do best: cutting the code! As someone very new to LuaTeX, I also want to thank you again for the tremendous work you are doing. Do please contact me by personal e-mail to discuss the above in more detail, should you wish to do so. Warm wishes Graham ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
Hi! Gour a écrit : 03/04 13:42 Taco> The availability of ConTeXt books will not automatically create Taco> more users (nor even automatically create readers, for that Taco> matter). Hmm, interesting... If even you think that ConTeXt books are not important (to bring new users), then no wonder we do not have even a single one... I think Taco didn't say *at all* that books are not important; he just said that the books will not automatically increase the use. 03/04 14:13 However, it might be that ConTeXt prefer to always stay niche-product and to, as Haskellers say: "Avoid success at all costs.” :-) Do you know many software in development for which there are plenty of books. Further the accusation of somes other that Hans is keeping information for his work and not documenting it is shocking me. Hans said that he did develop ConTeXt for *his* work and then opened it to others to benefit. And Hans is working for the ConTeXt users free and would prefer, I think, to use his "secret!!?" tools and go on for his real work. I also regret that the documentation is not complete and updated for mkiv, but mkiv is still in development even if it is operational (but Hans suggest to use mkii for professional work). Many people here who complain about documentation, also quickly say that they do not have time to write the asked for book: they have other things on the fire!! just... like Hans who is developing ConTeXt and do not have time writing documentation. What is more important: having a very good program and wait for its documentation, or a very good documentation and a buggy program??? Thanks to those who develop ConTeXt and answer the questions. Have a good Eastern time Alain ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
On 3-4-2010 11:23, Michael Saunders wrote: That's the feeling I'm getting. I'm finding it hard to do a lot of basic things in Context. Maybe Context can do them and maybe it can't, but there is no way to find out. If the claims that Context is better really aren't empty, I would expect a lot of people to switch, but I imagine 99% of them are in the same boat I'm in---trying to switch and finding it practically impossible. I imagine many people try, spend a week trying to get it to work and then give up and go back to LaTeX. why should users switch .. if something works ok there need to be good reasons Mojca's point, that Context is commercial, may be the key: it can be free in name only but if the means of using it are kept secret, it's only of benefit to Pragma. (Hans himself mentioned earlier that there are many undocumented options for use in-house only that outsiders see in the code and wonder about.) context being commercial? it's costing us more than it brings in and always had .. and as all code is public and most of the things that can be done are no secret (e.g. showed at user group meetings) the snippets of code that i referred to are simply too obscure to document (and i tend to remove them) .. actually some experimental code is being used and might evolve now concerning documentation, you should explain one thing: - a working day has 8 hours - add to that weekends and evenings - consider that writing code takes time - and answering mails too - and visiting user group meetings and doing talks there - and writing some miminal documentation (or history docs or articles) it looks to me that you're one of the few who either cannot imagine how much time i (and taco and others) spent on something free and still have some time left for our normal job as wel as some social time but maybe i should settle on me being too imperfect and inefficient and needing 16 hours instead of 8 which leaves me no time for writing manuals (which would be bad anyway) Taco's objection that no one helps with the community project to update the reference manual is reasonable, but also predictable: strangers cannot simply wander in and write the book. The knowledge is in Hans's head (and maybe a few others), and only they can communicate it. It's evident that they either can't or won't. if the knowledge is in my head, how come that wolfgang can answer most questions (and if he couldn't we'd have a real problem as at least i have not more time) I really would like to see the quality of computer typesetting advance, and I was hopeful at hearing about Luatex/Context. I'd love to see Context produce better output more easily than LaTeX, but so far I'm putting a lot of effort into it to get some very disappointing results. One might place some hope in a future (21st c.?) LaTeX 3 based on Luatex, but that would depend on Hans explaining how Luatex works, and it seems doubtful that would ever happen. well, it has been expressed several times (also at user group meetings) that latex will not use luatex or at least not the lua in tex ... all efforts with respect to that are personal initiatives For now I'm sticking with Context because I still hope there might be some value in it, but it's hard to find. ok Hans - Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl - ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
On Sat, Apr 03 2010, Patrick Gundlach wrote: > LuaTeX is documented very thoroughly. The manual is 180 pages and as far > as I can see it mentions and describes every aspect of the API. Moreover it seems that Taco keeps it always in sync with the code! Cheers, Peter -- Contact information: http://pmrb.free.fr/contact/ ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
On Sat, Apr 03 2010, Michael Saunders wrote: > That's the feeling I'm getting. I'm finding it hard to do a lot of > basic things in Context. Maybe Context can do them and maybe it > can't, but there is no way to find out. Could you please provide a typical example? > switch and finding it practically impossible. I imagine many people > try, spend a week trying to get it to work and then give up and go > back to LaTeX. Why do you? Personal experience: in 2003 I switched from LaTeX to ConTeXt, nearly from one day to the other, and since then without ever missing LaTeX (ok, only very rarely ... ;) Cheers, Peter -- Contact information: http://pmrb.free.fr/contact/ ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
On 3-4-2010 1:48, Gour wrote: On Sat, 03 Apr 2010 10:51:33 +0200 "Hans" == Hans Hagen wrote: Hello Hans, Hans> you must be kidding ... there are some 600 people on this list Hans> whih makes it actually not that small tex list; it's also one of Hans> the active tex lists I just conveyed real message which I got, nothing else, i.e. I did not paint that picture... Here you can e.g. see reply from the main dev which I got 2 years ago when asked about support for ConTexT in docutils (which does LaTeX): http://article.gmane.org/gmane.text.docutils.user/4404 i've been sent worse examples, like "context is just plain tex" or "context is a package for latex" or "context cannot do math" or ... also "luatex is not going to succees" or "luatex is a bad idea" or ... Hans - Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl - ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
On 3-4-2010 12:54, Andreas Schneider wrote: Michael Saunders wrote: Mojca's point, that Context is commercial, may be the key: it can be free in name only but if the means of using it are kept secret, it's only of benefit to Pragma. (Hans himself mentioned earlier that there are many undocumented options for use in-house only that outsiders see in the code and wonder about.) If you spend some time on the mailing list your probably make the contrary observation. There are countless cases where Hans, Taco or Wolfgang implement some features to fulfill a request of a user. Nearly every time I had a question/problem, a solution came up within _hours_. That's quite impressive imho. That also means that many solutions can be found by searching the mailing list archives ... not few things are also mentioned in the Wiki. And for the very basic problems, the "old" manuals still mostly apply. I do think that it would be pretty awesome to have a central up-to-date documentation which I could also recommend to other people I try to convince to use ConTeXt instead of Word, Writer or LaTeX. But at least for my personal needs I find answers to most of my questions already. it could be a user effort to document the new stuff posted on the list Hans - Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl - ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
Am 03.04.10 14:14, schrieb Michael Saunders: I've been trying to be more constructive than saying 'it sucks'. I'm not complaining just to complain---I want to get the most I can out of the software. Please point me to a rewritten chapter you would like me to look at and I will give it a try. - http://context.aanhet.net/svn/contextman/context-reference/en/co-typography.pdf - http://context.aanhet.net/svn/contextman/context-reference/en/co-fonts.pdf Wolfgang ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
[NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
Taco: >> Some feedback on the quality other than 'it sucks' would have helped >> enormously. ... > Over the past four years, it has been next to impossible to get people > interested in the reference manual project, not even for something as > simple as reading the rewritten chapters and telling me what they think > about it. ... > The near total lack of feedback had led me to believe that most > complainers are in it just for the complaining. I've been trying to be more constructive than saying 'it sucks'. I'm not complaining just to complain---I want to get the most I can out of the software. Please point me to a rewritten chapter you would like me to look at and I will give it a try. ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
On Sat, 03 Apr 2010 12:54:18 +0200 >> "Andreas" == Andreas Schneider wrote: Hello Andreas, Andreas> If you spend some time on the mailing list your probably make Andreas> the contrary observation. There are countless cases where Andreas> Hans, Taco or Wolfgang implement some features to fulfill a Andreas> request of a user. Nearly every time I had a question/problem, Andreas> a solution came up within _hours_. That's quite impressive Andreas> imho. That also means that many solutions can be found by Andreas> searching the mailing list archives ... not few things are Andreas> also mentioned in the Wiki. And for the very basic problems, Andreas> the "old" manuals still mostly apply. Thank you for your post. You are touching one of the very important aspects of ConTeXt which lot of people here do not or does not want to understand... I'm not the one who is living typography or for whom typesetting and/or writing books is bread & butter...When I did two books some years ago I was not confident I could make it due to the lack of up-to-date docs. I picked two LaTeX books (Kopka/Daly & Companion) which helped me to publish the books using LaTeX/LyX and I helped the project by sending donation as well as put credit in the book for all the tools which I used. (These days I'm TUG member and give some modest donation for TeX Gyre and LuaTeX projects.) So, the main variable in equation here is: TIME! I simply do not have time to research mailing lists, wikis etc. to find about the 'application', but prefer to buy the book (I'm book guy accustomed to learn from books) and read it afk to learn basic things. Then, I might get into mailing list, IRC, forums etc. when faced with very specific problems. That's the reason, I believe, why many people are buying books - to quickly get 'in action' as Manning publishers explain their book series. However, it might be that ConTeXt prefer to always stay niche-product and to, as Haskellers say: "Avoid success at all costs.” :-) Sincerely, Gour -- Gour | Hlapicina, Croatia | GPG key: F96FF5F6 signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
2010/4/3 Taco Hoekwater : > Over the past four years, it has been next to impossible to get people > interested in the reference manual project, not even for something as > simple as reading the rewritten chapters and telling me what they think > about it. Still, at the same time, complaints about the quality of the > documentation have been a constant recurrence on the mailing list. > > I know the argument that beginners do not understand the source > well enough to write a manual themselves is valid. But it is equally > true that a person that *does* know the source enough to write the > manual is not the correct person to proofread it. > > The near total lack of feedback had led me to believe that most > complainers are in it just for the complaining. This is extremely > demotivating, and so I have almost given up on doing documentation > at all. I mean, what's the point if nobody really cares? There are > many more interesting things to do in life than work for weeks on > end on revising chapters nobody appears willing to read anyway. I'm more than willing to proofread it and offer suggestions, and I'm pretty certain I'm not the only one. Regards, -- Vedran Miletić ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
Am 03.04.10 11:47, schrieb Vedran Miletić: Or write a LaTeX module for Context. :- http://modules.contextgarden.net/LaTeX Wow! Any documentation on what it supports? http://dl.contextgarden.net/modules/t-latex/tex/context/third/latex/latextest.tex Wolfgang ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
Am 03.04.10 11:20, schrieb luigi scarso: http://modules.contextgarden.net/LaTeX what do you think about luaLaTeX compatibility module for ConTeX-mkiv ? 1. The LaTeX module is from Brooks Moses, not me. 2. What do you expect from a LuaLaTeX module? Wolfgang ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
On Sat, 03 Apr 2010 10:51:33 +0200 >> "Hans" == Hans Hagen wrote: Hello Hans, Hans> you must be kidding ... there are some 600 people on this list Hans> whih makes it actually not that small tex list; it's also one of Hans> the active tex lists I just conveyed real message which I got, nothing else, i.e. I did not paint that picture... Here you can e.g. see reply from the main dev which I got 2 years ago when asked about support for ConTexT in docutils (which does LaTeX): http://article.gmane.org/gmane.text.docutils.user/4404 Hans> also keep in mind that lates (+amsmath) was declared 'a standard' Hans> soon after tex surfaced ... just wonder why currently there are Hans> only two main macro packages: latex and context .. it sometimes Hans> surprises me that eventually we made it to this stage I offer my deepest respect for your work and tireless enthusiasm. Hans> as taco mentions ... 99% of the latex books are not written by Hans> lamport Nobody expects that you write the book... Hans> anyway ... idris is writing a context book so push him to speed up That's very nice to hear...much better than some other replies in this thread. ;) Hans> there are couple of folks out there (and on the list) who know Hans> the source code pretty well so i would not worry to much about Hans> that OK. We hope there won't be need for the proof in practice. Sincerely, Gour -- Gour | Hlapicina, Croatia | GPG key: F96FF5F6 signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
Taco Hoekwater wrote: Michael Saunders wrote: Taco's objection that no one helps with the community project to update the reference manual is reasonable, but also predictable: strangers cannot simply wander in and write the book. The knowledge is in Hans's head (and maybe a few others), and only they can communicate it. It's evident that they either can't or won't. Some feedback on the quality other than 'it sucks' would have helped enormously. I'll elaborate a bit (excuse me for replying to myself). Over the past four years, it has been next to impossible to get people interested in the reference manual project, not even for something as simple as reading the rewritten chapters and telling me what they think about it. Still, at the same time, complaints about the quality of the documentation have been a constant recurrence on the mailing list. I know the argument that beginners do not understand the source well enough to write a manual themselves is valid. But it is equally true that a person that *does* know the source enough to write the manual is not the correct person to proofread it. The near total lack of feedback had led me to believe that most complainers are in it just for the complaining. This is extremely demotivating, and so I have almost given up on doing documentation at all. I mean, what's the point if nobody really cares? There are many more interesting things to do in life than work for weeks on end on revising chapters nobody appears willing to read anyway. Best wishes, Taco ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
On Sat, 03 Apr 2010 08:54:54 +0200 >> "Taco" == Taco Hoekwater wrote: Taco> Granted, often the first (and sometimes the best) books are by Taco> the inventors, but the *number* of books on a subject just gives Taco> an indication of the book market size, nothing more. Well, I used example of jQuery which is hot for me atm, but I could say Django as well or something. Why do you think the books about different projects are written & bought? It's not novel-market... Taco> The availability of ConTeXt books will not automatically create Taco> more users (nor even automatically create readers, for that Taco> matter). Hmm, interesting... If even you think that ConTeXt books are not important (to bring new users), then no wonder we do not have even a single one... Sincerely, Gour -- Gour | Hlapicina, Croatia | GPG key: F96FF5F6 signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
On Sat, 3 Apr 2010 09:47:44 +0200 >> "Mojca" == Mojca Miklavec wrote: Mojca> > You can use MS-Word - it has a *huge* user base! Mojca> Mojca> I really love that answer :) :) :) And it's definitely true. I'm really sad to receive such foolish answers here. :-( What do you think why I'm subscribed to the ntg-context list at the first place? Moreover, by inspecting X-Newsreader: header in my message you could deduce that I most probably do not use OS for which MS-Word is available... Sincerely, Gour -- Gour | Hlapicina, Croatia | GPG key: F96FF5F6 signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
Michael Saunders wrote: Taco's objection that no one helps with the community project to update the reference manual is reasonable, but also predictable: strangers cannot simply wander in and write the book. The knowledge is in Hans's head (and maybe a few others), and only they can communicate it. It's evident that they either can't or won't. Some feedback on the quality other than 'it sucks' would have helped enormously. ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
Michael Saunders wrote: > Mojca's point, that Context is commercial, may be the key: it can be > free in name only but if the means of using it are kept secret, it's > only of benefit to Pragma. (Hans himself mentioned earlier that there > are many undocumented options for use in-house only that outsiders see > in the code and wonder about.) If you spend some time on the mailing list your probably make the contrary observation. There are countless cases where Hans, Taco or Wolfgang implement some features to fulfill a request of a user. Nearly every time I had a question/problem, a solution came up within _hours_. That's quite impressive imho. That also means that many solutions can be found by searching the mailing list archives ... not few things are also mentioned in the Wiki. And for the very basic problems, the "old" manuals still mostly apply. I do think that it would be pretty awesome to have a central up-to-date documentation which I could also recommend to other people I try to convince to use ConTeXt instead of Word, Writer or LaTeX. But at least for my personal needs I find answers to most of my questions already. Best Regards, Andreas. ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
2010/4/3 Wolfgang Schuster : > Am 03.04.10 10:59, schrieb Martin Schröder: >> >> Or write a LaTeX module for Context. :-) >> > > http://modules.contextgarden.net/LaTeX > > Wolfgang Wow! Any documentation on what it supports? -- Vedran Miletić ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
Hi Michael, > based on Luatex, but that would depend on Hans explaining how Luatex > works LuaTeX is documented very thoroughly. The manual is 180 pages and as far as I can see it mentions and describes every aspect of the API. I am not saying that from the reference manual alone I understand every detail (every now and then I need to ask a question on the mailinglist), but that is a different subject as TeX itself is rather complex (you need knowledge about glue and boxes for example). Patrick ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
