Re: [NTG-context] open quotation not working

2013-10-22 Thread Wolfgang Schuster 

Am 22.10.2013 um 16:38 schrieb Mojca Miklavec :

> On Sun, Oct 13, 2013 at 11:30 AM, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
>> Am 13.10.2013 um 06:09 schrieb Ciro A. Soto:
>> 
>>> sorry, I just saw an old chain of messages about this question... I fixed 
>>> it with the translation module.
>>> \usemodule[translate]
>>> \translateinput[``][“]
>>> \enableinputtranslation
>> 
>> Better use real quotation marks “ and ” or \quotation{…}.
> 
> Or \quotedblleft, \quotedblright, \quotedblbase, .
> For the flowing text these are a bit too long to use and remember for
> my taste though.
> 
> LaTeX sometimes uses \grqq & \glqq which are a whole lot shorter, but
> also not the easiest one to remember (or at least I don't understand
> the pattern).
> 
> There could be something like \quotationleft/\quotationright &
> \quoteleft/\quoteright for a single language-dependent single & double
> quotation marks. And maybe another language-independent version which
> would always generate the desired character (if looking for
> hard-to-remember shortcuts, l/u - lower/upper; g/b/p -
> 9-like/6-like/reversed 9-like shape, q/qq - single/double quotation
> mark; so 201C “ - \qqub [or \ubqq], 201D ” - \qqug; 201E „ - \qqlg;
> 201F ‟ - \qqup). Personally I never use them unpaired other than in
> obscure situations (like listing all characters), so I like \quotation
> and \quote a lot more than the TeX approach which taught almost
> everyone here to use the wrong quotation marks. And consequently I
> also don't miss any of these commands.

\starttext

\symbol[leftquotation]Left \symbol[leftquote]middle\symbol[rightquote] 
right\symbol[rightquotation]

\language[de]

\symbol[leftquotation]Left \symbol[leftquote]middle\symbol[rightquote] 
right\symbol[rightquotation]

\setuplanguage
  [de]
  [leftquote=›,
   rightquote=‹,
   leftquotation=»,
   rightquotation=«]

\symbol[leftquotation]Left \symbol[leftquote]middle\symbol[rightquote] 
right\symbol[rightquotation]

\stoptext

Wolfgang
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Re: [NTG-context] open quotation not working

2013-10-22 Thread Mojca Miklavec 
On Sun, Oct 13, 2013 at 11:30 AM, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
> Am 13.10.2013 um 06:09 schrieb Ciro A. Soto:
>
>> sorry, I just saw an old chain of messages about this question... I fixed it 
>> with the translation module.
>> \usemodule[translate]
>> \translateinput[``][“]
>> \enableinputtranslation
>
> Better use real quotation marks “ and ” or \quotation{…}.

Or \quotedblleft, \quotedblright, \quotedblbase, .
For the flowing text these are a bit too long to use and remember for
my taste though.

LaTeX sometimes uses \grqq & \glqq which are a whole lot shorter, but
also not the easiest one to remember (or at least I don't understand
the pattern).

There could be something like \quotationleft/\quotationright &
\quoteleft/\quoteright for a single language-dependent single & double
quotation marks. And maybe another language-independent version which
would always generate the desired character (if looking for
hard-to-remember shortcuts, l/u - lower/upper; g/b/p -
9-like/6-like/reversed 9-like shape, q/qq - single/double quotation
mark; so 201C “ - \qqub [or \ubqq], 201D ” - \qqug; 201E „ - \qqlg;
201F ‟ - \qqup). Personally I never use them unpaired other than in
obscure situations (like listing all characters), so I like \quotation
and \quote a lot more than the TeX approach which taught almost
everyone here to use the wrong quotation marks. And consequently I
also don't miss any of these commands.

MS Word at least does the proper auto-replacement if the right
language is used, but in TeX most people here just cloned Knuth's
approach without giving a single thought to the local grammar & its
rules.

@John: you can always create your own feature file to do the
replacement and load it.

Mojca
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Re: [NTG-context] open quotation not working

2013-10-21 Thread Hans Hagen 

On 10/22/2013 2:57 AM, john Culleton wrote:

On Sun, 13 Oct 2013 11:30:54 +0200
Wolfgang Schuster  wrote:



Am 13.10.2013 um 06:09 schrieb Ciro A. Soto :


sorry, I just saw an old chain of messages about this question... I
fixed it with the translation module. \usemodule[translate]
\translateinput[``][“]
\enableinputtranslation


Better use real quotation marks “ and ” or \quotation{…}.

Wolfgang



Why is it better? And why is it so difficult to just reinstall the
traditional TeX method of handling quotes? Even the MSWin version of
smart quotes using the " glyph would be a worthwhile simplification.


traditional tex was meant for (us) english ... and geared at cm fonts .. 
you can't expect all context users to take english as their default so 
either you use the proper quotes for your language (as wolfgang pointed 
out) or you use \quotation (which adapt itself to the main language)



Not every change is an improvement, IMO.


there are more such traditional features that are fine in a restricted 
usage but not that handy today


btw, if you look into the traditional tex fonts you see more pseudo 
ligatures (-- --- space+... some quotes) and if you ever had to use a 
commercial font or a free one not tuned for tex, you wouldn't have had 
those quote ligs either ... it is a dependency you don't want nowadays


Hans

-
  Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
  Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
 | www.pragma-pod.nl
-
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Re: [NTG-context] open quotation not working

2013-10-21 Thread Peter Münster 
On Mon, Oct 21 2013, john Culleton wrote:

> Not every change is an improvement, IMO.


On Sat, Jul 27 2013, Mojca Miklavec wrote:

> On the other hand many languages use different quotation marks and
> using ``these'' is completely "americanocentric". On top,
> auto-replacement lead to inability to typeset the actual backtick (`)
> when it's needed. So yes, getting rid of `` replaced by quotation by
> default *was* an improvement.

(copied from http://www.ntg.nl/pipermail/ntg-context/2013/074277.html )

-- 
   Peter
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Re: [NTG-context] open quotation not working

2013-10-21 Thread Khaled Hosny 
On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 01:57:22PM -0400, john Culleton wrote:
> On Sun, 13 Oct 2013 11:30:54 +0200
> Wolfgang Schuster  wrote:
> 
> > 
> > Am 13.10.2013 um 06:09 schrieb Ciro A. Soto :
> > 
> > > sorry, I just saw an old chain of messages about this question... I
> > > fixed it with the translation module. \usemodule[translate]
> > > \translateinput[``][“]
> > > \enableinputtranslation
> > 
> > Better use real quotation marks “ and ” or \quotation{…}.
> > 
> > Wolfgang
> > 
> 
> Why is it better? And why is it so difficult to just reinstall the
> traditional TeX method of handling quotes? Even the MSWin version of
> smart quotes using the " glyph would be a worthwhile simplification. 

Because the “traditional TeX” was a font hack, if you are fine with
using the original Knuth fonts you can still get it. Modern fonts do not
implement such a feature. Besides, \quotation{…} provide much more
options (like being language sensitive, or handling nested quotes and so
on).

Regards,
Khaled
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Re: [NTG-context] open quotation not working

2013-10-21 Thread john Culleton 
On Sun, 13 Oct 2013 11:30:54 +0200
Wolfgang Schuster  wrote:

> 
> Am 13.10.2013 um 06:09 schrieb Ciro A. Soto :
> 
> > sorry, I just saw an old chain of messages about this question... I
> > fixed it with the translation module. \usemodule[translate]
> > \translateinput[``][“]
> > \enableinputtranslation
> 
> Better use real quotation marks “ and ” or \quotation{…}.
> 
> Wolfgang
> 

Why is it better? And why is it so difficult to just reinstall the
traditional TeX method of handling quotes? Even the MSWin version of
smart quotes using the " glyph would be a worthwhile simplification. 


Not every change is an improvement, IMO.







-- 
John Culleton
Wexford Press
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Re: [NTG-context] open quotation not working

2013-10-13 Thread Wolfgang Schuster 

Am 13.10.2013 um 06:09 schrieb Ciro A. Soto :

> sorry, I just saw an old chain of messages about this question... I fixed it 
> with the translation module.
> \usemodule[translate]
> \translateinput[``][“]
> \enableinputtranslation

Better use real quotation marks “ and ” or \quotation{…}.

Wolfgang
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Re: [NTG-context] open quotation not working

2013-10-13 Thread Wolfgang Schuster 

Am 13.10.2013 um 05:07 schrieb Ciro A. Soto :

> When I use `` to open a quotation,  I don't get the character for open 
> quotation, instead, I get the two single quotation character. (The closing 
> quotation works fine) 
> Is there any command to fix this? (the problem occurs in english or spanish)
> thank you

Read the answers for this thread: 
http://www.ntg.nl/pipermail/ntg-context/2013/074213.html

Wolfgang___
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Re: [NTG-context] open quotation not working

2013-10-12 Thread Ciro A. Soto 
sorry, I just saw an old chain of messages about this question... I fixed
it with the translation module.
\usemodule[translate]
\translateinput[``][“]
\enableinputtranslation

thank you
Ciro


ciro


Books you should read:

[image: Lead, Follow & Suceed]   [image:
The Guitar Maker]   [image: La Vida, El
Amor, La Mujer] 
My social profile: [image:
Facebook] [image:
Twitter] 


On Sat, Oct 12, 2013 at 11:07 PM, Ciro A. Soto  wrote:

> When I use `` to open a quotation,  I don't get the character for open
> quotation, instead, I get the two single quotation character. (The closing
> quotation works fine)
> Is there any command to fix this? (the problem occurs in english or
> spanish)
> thank you
>
> ciro
>
>
> Books you should read:
>
> [image: Lead, Follow & Suceed]   [image:
> The Guitar Maker]   [image: La Vida, El
> Amor, La Mujer] 
> My social profile: [image: 
> Facebook] [image:
> Twitter] 
>
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[NTG-context] open quotation not working

2013-10-12 Thread Ciro A. Soto 
When I use `` to open a quotation,  I don't get the character for open
quotation, instead, I get the two single quotation character. (The closing
quotation works fine)
Is there any command to fix this? (the problem occurs in english or spanish)
thank you

ciro


Books you should read:

[image: Lead, Follow & Suceed]   [image:
The Guitar Maker]   [image: La Vida, El
Amor, La Mujer] 
My social profile: [image:
Facebook] [image:
Twitter] 
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