Re: [openhealth] sumultaneous registrations and registration form
The protem committee taking four years to get this far is a pretty clear indication that they've undermined themselves. Richard Molly Cheah wrote: Richard, I would appreciate it if you allow the protem committee to make the decisions on OSHCA since the community has given us the mandate to resurrect OSHCA. Otherwise I feel that you're undermining our efforts. I don't understand why suddenly you're in such a hurry. Like many others, Tim Cook, Bhaskar etc had expressed earlier there can be chapters/branches etc formed later. The discussions and sentiments expressed here will certainly be taken into consideration by the protem committee. I would like to appeal to you not to complicate the matter further otherwise your intentions may be misconstrued. Please let me complete my job and my responsibility to the community. I did not think that my intention to update the community with information would lead to a kind of upstaging the protem committee's efforts. If you proceed to register OSHCA it will be tantamount to acting in bad faith, as I had been negotiating with Brian on behalf of the community. Molly Richard Schilling wrote: Since OSCHA is an internationl body we can register siultaneously, and choose the base to be anywhere. Is the incorporation in Malaysia going to be doing business or just representing FOSS industry interests? Depending on the answer to that here are our choices here in the U.S. that I can pursue now: Trade association — Definition. trade associations don't do business but exist to exert influence on a market. This seems to me the best fit for OSCHA if the organization does not intend to own things like copyrighted software. Gets around the international intellectual property issues on software for OSCHA as well. Trade association, as that term is used here means a membership organization of persons engaging in a similar or related line of commerce, organized to promote and improve business conditions in that line of commerce and not to engage in a regular business of a kind ordinarily carried on for profit and for which no part of net earnings inures to the benefit of any member. Non-Profit Corporation - Definition. Non-Profit Corporations conduct business (e.g. provide products and services) and can also have an influencing effect. A nonprofit corporation is an organization formed as a corporation for purposes other than generating a profit, and in which no part of the organization's income is distributed to its directors or officers. Nonprofits are formed pursuant to state law, often under the Revised Model Non-Profit Corporation Act (1986). A nonprofit can be a church or church association, school, charity, medical provider, legal aid society, volunteer service organization, professional association, research institute, museum, or in some cases a sports association. Being formed with the state as a nonprofit corporation does not automatically provide an organization with tax-exempt status. Nonprofits must apply for tax-exempt status at the federal and sometimes at the state level. Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/openhealth/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [openhealth] CCHIT biased towards proprietary software??
I understand Rod's point, and I believe that if you choose to restrict your activities to a purely altruistic ideal, then what Rod talks about and what Eric Rayomond talks about is just fine. But, I argue that at any point you invest time into open source (as a user,developer, etc.) it is always part of a business model. It's just a matter of degrees. For the benefit of open source, it can no longer, especially in the case of health care software, remain garage at-home projects. Capital needs to be fed to those individuals doing the work, AND it's important to make sure those individuals are always associated with the project in the public's eye. Otherwise progress will become stagnate. The question is, which business model accelerates open source development faster? Richard Rod Roark wrote: On Saturday 25 March 2006 03:08 am, Thomas Beale wrote: Rod Roark wrote: The point is, open source (as in Free Software) is NOT a business model. It's a method and end result of collaboration among users. I make good money at it only because some of those users are willing to pay me to do the techie work for them. if someone is paying you something, then there is a business model. It's better to be aware of what it is than pretend that it isn't there My business is just work for hire, and I can assure you that I'm aware of it. :-) This has nothing to do with my point. For a better understanding of the nature of Free Software, see Eric Raymond's classic work at: http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/cathedral-bazaar/cathedral-bazaar/ and as an interesting exercise, count how many times the word business appears. -- Rod www.sunsetsystems.com Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/openhealth/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [openhealth] Important announcement and oshca update
Nice to see you make progress on this. I remember a few years ago when this was a hot topic on the openhealth list If I were involved in the incorporation (which I can do, by the way in a day) I would object to doing it in Malaysia. I would do it in the U.S. first. The protections offered a U.S. corporation might be much greater than in Malaysia. Richard Schilling Molly Cheah wrote: Dear all, I am happy to annouce that the transfer of the domain name oshca.org from Brian had been completed. Brian is in the process of creating and signing a document disclaiming rights to the OSHCA trademark. Thank you Brian for these initiatives. I understand that Brian will also make a decision with regards to the fate of the openhealth lists on Minoru and Yahoo by this weekend. I'll leave that to Brian to make that annoucement. As for the status of OSHCA, the protem committee members (volunteers expressed on the list as well as those agreed to serve when requested) are as follows: Joseph dal Molin (Canada/US) Adrian Midgley (UK/Europe) Thomas Beale (Australia/Pacific islands) Nandalal Gunaratne (Sri Lanka/Asia) Molly Cheah (Malaysia/Asia) I hope to keep the protem committee small for quick decision making but hope to add 2 more names, preferably from South America and Africa/Middle East by the time we submit the incorporation documents for registration. Please volunteer. These numbers and representation structure can change after incorporation if members wish so. I don't know how much discussion should go into the incorporation process or how much time should be alotted. My proposed timeline for completion of incorporation is 3 months from 15th April 2006 - tentative date for submission of papers. We should have OSHCA ressurrected by 15th July 2006, barring unforseen circumstances. Here are my assumptions in order to realise this initiative: 1. Provisions in the constitution/MA of OSHCA is a living document and can be changed by members' majority wishes. For purpose of incorporation, we will take into consideration past discussions (2002-2004) and make the provisions as general and flexible as possible to meet incorporation requirements. 2. There is no objection to incorporate ina developing country like Malaysia. There will be provisions for setting up geographical sections/branches etc with as much de-centralization as possible. 3.The Vision, Mission Statements, Principles and Activities as discussed earlier this year will be included in the incorporation papers. Any suggestion of changes posted on the Yahoo list by 15th April will be taken into consideration by the protem committee for incorporation. Procedures will be provided for amendments to be made after incorporation. 4. Elections for new committee members can take place immediately after incorporation. Provision will be made for the protem committee to stay on for a defined number of months to attend to teething issues that may arise. 5. The yahoo list will continue to discuss organising the 1st post-incorporation OSHCA meeting scheduled for later part of 2006 to kick-start/launch OSHCA. This may not be in the form of a full conference. I would like to see presentations of current status of open source healthcare solutions/applicaions. It should also provide the opportunity to include indepth discussions on planning for the future of OSHCA so that its resurrection becomes meaningful - reflecting more than just a community of open source enthusiasts in health care. If there are no other bidders, I plan to get funding to do this in Malaysia. Naturally it may be on a modest scale. Please feel free to propose ideas.The protem committee will work on an action plan and invite volunteers to help. Molly Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/openhealth/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [openhealth] Important announcement and oshca update
Molly, I think you should incorporate in Malaysia eventually. As a Malaysian you'll have a very easy time doing it and know what it means. The members of the protem committee have been discussing OSCHA incorporation since 2002 or perhaps earlier if memory serves. Why it didn't happen in France or Canada already is a mystery to me. globalknowledge.org provides a wonderful model. Is Microsoft the only north-American company a member of globalknowledge.org? Richard Molly Cheah wrote: David, There is and not may be because there are legal frameworks (acts of parliament) that governs corporations, civil societies, unions etc. If OSHCA is to be my organisation, I would have it up in 3 days (not one as suggested by Richard). My timeline of 3 months is not due to technical grounds for setting it up but rather to allow members and the protem committee to discuss and accept what should go into the incorporation papers. The procedures are laid out and transparent. Even the choice of incorporation in a developing country went through discussions on this list and there were no objections. I picked Malaysia because I'm from here and I had undertaken to do the job. If anyone else would like to volunteer to do the job please by all means. The other reason why I picked Malaysia is provided by the evidence of the incorporation and success of the global knowledge partnership http://www.globalknowledge.org. There are several other similar organisations too. And look at the list of GKP members, their activities etc. Please enumerate what we want to do in OSHCA that is not done by global knowledge partnership. We had already gone through discussions on OSHCA's vision, mission statements, principles and activities. Though this is out of context here, Malaysia has a secular constitution and therefore it is not an islamic country, though majority of the population are muslims. Unfortunately the media especially in the US says we are an islamic state and most people rely on the media for information and believes them. But this (muslim or secular) should not be of concern to anyone. Molly David Forslund wrote: There may be legal protection, etc in Malaysia. We are more familiar with the situation in the US. It is more of a question of comparing what is required and what you can do with a corporation in Malaysia than in the US. The decision shouldn't be made on political grounds but on technical grounds, in my opinion. Dave Molly Cheah wrote: I was born in Malaysia and lived through the period where we obtained independance from the British and from whom our legal framework was adopted. Just wondering what are the concerns of Richard and David on the legal protection for OSHCA. Can you elaborate rather than make a comment that imply there isn't legal protection. Incidently we don't have the equivalence of Guantanano Bay in Malaysia. Molly Joseph Dal Molin wrote: Legal protection in the context of an organization like OSHCA is IMHO not a major concern. What is more important is how the countries laws influence governance. David Forslund wrote: I don't understand why this is good or even relevant. What should matter is the legal protection provided by the incorporation in the various countries participating, which I think was Richard's point. Dave Forslund Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/openhealth/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [openhealth] Important announcement and oshca update
Thank you Dr. Molly. What you wrote is very helpful and answers my concerns about intellectual property protections afforded to Malaysian incorporation. But, I'm still not convinced I know enough to say it's a great idea to start there. You're right - I need to spend some time there, and will eventually. And BTW, I'm not just talking, I'm trying to figure out how much it's going to take me to actually execute the incorporation here in the U.S. when you all are ready. see below ... Dr Molly Cheah wrote: (snip) But why start of with a US incorporation? Past discussions clearly indicate that the membership do not want a US dominated OSHCA. I don't view the situation as US dominated or not. We'll have to get a US incorporation at some point to have a US presence. Your big economic impact and market is in the U.S. As a Malaysian company you have to play in the U.S. as a foreign interest. As a domestic U.S. corporation it's much easier. I can help you more if you start here. I can't help you as much if you start elsewhere. I know there's a lot of bad sentiment toward American companies right now in some circles, but you know what? It doesn't matter. I believe those fears will dissipate as long as we stay focused on OSCHA's mission. We're getting software distributed here, not playing politics. I don't agree that US incorporation offers more legal protection than Malaysia which are also signatories to International Conventions and legal frameworks and taking them seriously. Under the law OSHCA will be a legal entity with rights to all provisions under the relevent acts. Incidently Malaysia is not a new regime and we got our independence from the British in 1957. Before that we were colonized by the Portugese, then the Dutch and then the British. Stabilized by US based parent? How so? The U.S. economy is much more stable. Investments into open souce here already rivals that of any foreign government's investment into open source.There's simply more money to be had here to support OSCHA's progams. And there's more prescedent in the U.S. for protecting the individual's (not government sponsored) open source properties. Here's how else a US based parent offers stability: if OSCHA's intellectual properties (the open source software) technically originates from the U.S. it will be much more difficult for foreign entities to challenge that ownership. I'm not worried about *Malaysia*. I'm worried about China, North Korea, and a few other countries. I want to see OSCHA stand firm internationally. An organization's/individual's ability to protect open source is unquestionably great in the U.S. Linus Torvalds owns Linux under US copyright, which has allowed him to protect it and keep it open sourced. OSCHA's ability to enforce ownership of software and license it under open souce licensing dramatically affects my ability to contribute to the intellectual property itself. I plan to apply for tax-exempt status, in addition to the non-profit status which will automatically be given. That means that donors to OSHCA do not pay taxation on their donations to OSHCA and OSHCA does not have to pay tax on the donations received. There is no control on the repatriation of monies earned in Malaysia. nice. This is key! I didn't know that Malaysia is politically unstable and I don't know of any assets that had been suddenly owned by someone else. But I'm amazed by your perceptions of Malaysia. I would be happy to play host and invite you to come and see Malaysia. I'm not saying there's a problem, per-say, today. I happen to be a big fan of Malaysia. It has a lot of promise. I would agree Malaysia is relatively stable, perhaps even more than Mexico - certainly more stable than Argentina. Not more stable than the U.S. And it's easier to operate without guanxi connections in the U.S. because of that difference. I've not mentioned about Govt funding. I did say that it would be easier to get funding for OSHCA activities from the likes of organisations like UNDP, IDRC, CIDA, SIDA etc. Maybe I failed to market or hard sell Malaysia for our purpose. As for incentive programmes and other Govt offers, it is obvious that you are not aware of the Malaysian Govt's Policy on Open Source, incentives related to ICT companies and projects. Well, you're correct about my lack of awareness there. It's hard to find that kind of information. http://opensource.mampu.gov.my/index.php?option=contenttask=viewid=20Itemid=38 But, there's a careful balance to be aware of here. Is the government driving Malaysia's open source development or the Malaysian market? More government funding means more quanxi required to play in the open source market. Whose interests are represented there? Keeping OSCHA development a part of free market dynamics is pretty important too. I see a lot of open source vendors and the Malaysian government
Re: next steps. (was Re: [openhealth] Important announcement and oshca update)
Molly certainly has my support. I don't mean to suggest she doesn't. And I do appreciate her assertiveness as well. Ultimately I can work with any locale of registration to some degree. Tim, I offered to help four years ago too when this subject was being kicked around. I'm certain that things would have gotten much farther than they have by now if Minoru hadn't taken so long to transfer the OSHCA trademark to an independent organization. Molly deserves extra credit for hanging in there. I'm anxious to see things progress. It doesn't sound like, though, you or anyone is interested in seeing a U.S. component. Is that true? Richard Tim Cook wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Thanks for your offer Richard. Molly and others have spent a great deal of time in developing this organization. While it is not a particularly inviting subject, the ideology of 'where to incorporate' first is an issue. One that has been discussed privately and publicly over the past four years. Incorporation in various countries can follow if required at a later date. Molly's assertiveness is appreciated (at least by me) in her ability to make things happen in a timely manner. She deserves your support. Molly has done well in establishing an international coalition for the protem board. Molly, your work is appreciated even if not globally recognized. Please carry on. It is important, in the global business arena, that OSHCA is an 'entity'. Being registered as an organization/corporation is VERY important. Regards, Tim Cook Richard Schilling wrote: As soon as I have those four things, I'll get the paperwork drafted. Looks like OSCHA would be technically classified in the U.S. as an international trade association. Non-profit as well. I have an office that can be used here in Seattle as a base for OSHCA activities. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3rc2 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFEKh3AMOzvb7luwR0RAlvaAJkB9HVcB1Imbq4bHsrQ065ee7CgXACdESdS 3dtosnCNUt2mf1rpuMj0nMM= =aF/O -END PGP SIGNATURE- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/openhealth/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: next steps. (was Re: [openhealth] Important announcement and oshca update)
I know Tim - a lot of people feel the way you do. I try to be as politically agnostic as I can in the FOSS realm, and sometimes that confuses people. Someone mentioned the bad U.S. press too. I don't watch U.S. news, BTW :-) I'm simply saying I'll do the work and give OSCHA a physical presence here, as long as I know there will be people there to sign up. I don't want to establish a U.S. presence for OSCHA that has no interest. Building up an OSCHA presence in the U.S. that spans political and international boundaries is vital. Richard Tim Cook wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Richard Schilling wrote: Molly deserves extra credit for hanging in there. I'm anxious to see things progress. It doesn't sound like, though, you or anyone is interested in seeing a U.S. component. Is that true? Richard Hi Richard, Let me be quite clear in that I would enjoy seeing a US component. I doubt there is ANYONE more patriotic to the US than I (retired US Marine MSgt.) However, I try to be very pragmatic in world politics and quite frankly our latest President is a duff! If it was 1969 I would move to Canada anywaythough that is another story entirely. I love my country and in the great big scheme of things the men and women of he US are fair and decent people. However, the stage of politics is embarrassing and frankly depressing. As Ben Franklin said: - -- The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. Benjamin Franklin - --- Cheers, Tim -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3rc2 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFEKiiSMOzvb7luwR0RAmGXAKCb07nRFLJXIedrwf34MpssbSdNMACfTc1R mqvdNrtrYQBGuRKMfjMzNI8= =jfzp -END PGP SIGNATURE- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/openhealth/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[openhealth] sumultaneous registrations and registration form
Since OSCHA is an internationl body we can register siultaneously, and choose the base to be anywhere. Is the incorporation in Malaysia going to be doing business or just representing FOSS industry interests? Depending on the answer to that here are our choices here in the U.S. that I can pursue now: Trade association — Definition. trade associations don't do business but exist to exert influence on a market. This seems to me the best fit for OSCHA if the organization does not intend to own things like copyrighted software. Gets around the international intellectual property issues on software for OSCHA as well. Trade association, as that term is used here means a membership organization of persons engaging in a similar or related line of commerce, organized to promote and improve business conditions in that line of commerce and not to engage in a regular business of a kind ordinarily carried on for profit and for which no part of net earnings inures to the benefit of any member. Non-Profit Corporation - Definition. Non-Profit Corporations conduct business (e.g. provide products and services) and can also have an influencing effect. A nonprofit corporation is an organization formed as a corporation for purposes other than generating a profit, and in which no part of the organization's income is distributed to its directors or officers. Nonprofits are formed pursuant to state law, often under the Revised Model Non-Profit Corporation Act (1986). A nonprofit can be a church or church association, school, charity, medical provider, legal aid society, volunteer service organization, professional association, research institute, museum, or in some cases a sports association. Being formed with the state as a nonprofit corporation does not automatically provide an organization with tax-exempt status. Nonprofits must apply for tax-exempt status at the federal and sometimes at the state level. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/openhealth/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [openhealth] [Fwd: Re: [n-gaa] Is Open Source Good for Innovation?]
The evolving work-social phenomena are sure interesting. Toyota, and agriculture research adopting the approach is pretty cool. I believe there are a LOT of companies incorporating open source work into RFPs and proposals to get a contract without even talking to the original developers - this is restricting the pool of talent and time going into open source projects, unfortunately. As the article suggests you have to control code submissions to keep the quality of the product high. And protecting the image/brand of an open source project is just as important as rejecting bad code submissions. Trademark, copyright, and making sure an author's contributions are advertised properly are all too important... Linus being a great example. Richard David Forslund wrote: http://www.economist.com/business/displaystory.cfm?story_id=5624944 is the link to the article I intended to post. David Forslund wrote: I thought folks might like to see this article. Any comments? -Dave Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/openhealth/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [openhealth] Demonstrations Standards.
Can anyone post the link again to the files section? Thanks! Richard Will Ross wrote: oops. now i posted the document in the openhealth files section. [wr] - - - - - - - - On Mar 23, 2006, at 8:01 PM, David Forslund wrote: As you probably noticed, images (and attachments) are stripped off by the mailer, so the diagram isn't visible. :-( What is the communication between components of ClearHealth or with other systems? Thanks, Dave Will Ross wrote: Dave, Attached is a diagram which is part of a practice management software replacement project I am managing for a group of rural ambulatory clinics. This particular diagram maps the initial steps at one clinic as Reception interacts with the current software (HP) when a patient arrives for an appointment. These high level procedural diagrams completely map user interaction with the HealthPro software at this facility. The user centered workflows are grouped into procedural chunks to enable analysis and planning for migration to the replacement practice management software, which is ClearHealth from Uversa. Using these maps allows lead users in the key operations areas (Scheduling, Billing, Medical Records, etc) to step through the ClearHealth demo, creating a gap analysis to identify software features that must be added to ClearHealth. I anticipate implementation of ClearHealth at our first clinic site this summer. I started this open source project in February 2004 and have been fortunate to raise enough funds to aggressively and comprehensively add the necessary features to the base ClearHealth product. All the new code being paid with grant funds will be released under the GPL. The project portal is located here: http://www.phoenixpm.org/ With best regards, [wr] - - - - - - - - On Mar 23, 2006, at 6:44 AM, David Forslund wrote: I wholeheartedly agree with you, Will!Do you have some example workflow diagrams that you have found useful? Dave Will Ross wrote: Philippe, Actually, I am still talking about Wayne's focus on the user. As a project manager I spend much of my time in a balancing act by advocating for someone else's perspective. When I work with with IT developers and vendors, the most important missing voice is generally the perspective of the user. Workflow diagrams and use case narratives are excellent tools to bring the user back into the center of the technology planning process, and they also provide users with a convenient way to redirect well intentioned but inappropriate technology proposals. Until we have compelling informatics solutions that meet actual clinical user needs, adoption of new IT proposals will be minimal at best, which describes the current state of EHR deployment in this country (i.e., minimal). With best regards, [wr] - - - - - - - - On Mar 23, 2006, at 3:43 AM, Philippe AMELINE wrote: Any opinion on YAWL ( http://www.yawl.fit.qut.edu.au/ )? Tim C Hi guys, I very much like the way Wayne Wilson explicated the Big problem : The very first thing to do is to build a believable (to doctors and patients) scenario for needing to get information from one system to the next, preferably in real time. IF you don't lead with that from a demonstrably practical point of view and just assume a generic need justifies all (interchange is good and will save the world, etc.), then I suggest that this interoperability demo is no different than a vendor plug fest designed to show managers why they should keep buying the same stuff they have already bought. And how funny it was to see that 6 posts after, all this vanished into a workflow engines comparison (very interesting, by the way). From my point of view, Wayne is very right to ask for a scenario for needing to get information from one system to the next. And I think that such a scenario will be pretty much artificial if these systems are HIS since the genuine main reason to communicate is continuity of care, and that it is the very issue that hospitals don't address at all - and even rarely understand. This generic need that would justify a need for communication between HIS is a myth that became a religion when a sufficient number of people started to make a living by building standards for it. This is not an issue for the citizen. My 2 € ;-) Philippe [wr] - - - - - - - - will ross project manager mendocino informatics 216 west perkins street, suite 206 ukiah, california 95482 usa 707.272.7255 [voice] 707.462.5015 [fax] www.minformatics.com - - - - - - - - [wr] - - - - - - - - will ross project manager mendocino informatics 216 west perkins street, suite 206 ukiah, california 95482 usa 707.272.7255 [voice] 707.462.5015 [fax] www.minformatics.com - - - - - - - - -- - - - - - - - - [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links [wr] - - - - - - - - will ross project manager mendocino informatics
Re: [openhealth] CCHIT biased towards proprietary software??
I'd prefer to assume that the CCHIT pricing model is simply biased toward software companies that can produce a viable product. And by that I mean a software product that stimulates revenue for a company at some point - which in our case is not through the sale of software licenses. Nothing wrong with that bias. CCHIT is obviously trying to stand as a self-contained, objective certification body. It can't do that unless it charges fees. It's up to people seeking a certification to determine if the investment into the certification will bring enough returns in the long run. I maintain open souce software is a path toward stimulated economies and innovation .. CCHIT doesn't owe anything to open source software and shouldn't be required to lower their fees. It's up to us to demonstrate that open source solutions compete on all fronts. As for giving other companies an edge if you release certified CCHIT software a open source, I maintain that risk can be managed. CCHIT fees, whatever they are, get back to the question at hand: can an open source software company produce a viable healthcare product? Richard Fred Trotter wrote: The current CCHIT pricing module seems biased against any GPL based system. Joseph has already written about this, but I would like for us to consider group action in the issue. The first issue is pricing. It will cost a $25,000 to $35,000 one-time fee to perform the test. After certification, an annual fee based on sales will be required which will be at least $5,000 a year. According to... http://www.healthcareitnews.com/story.cms?id=4639 This pricing assumes a proprietary business model. The seal of approval model is also problematic. Suppose I pay the fee to have MirrorMed (my project of choice) certified. There is no way for me to guarentee that only I benifit from the seal. My competitors which have full access to the code that I would have certified would be able to correctly claim that the code had been certified, and would benifit with me. As with the original pricing there is no way to fairly spread these kinds of costs across a community. As a result, FOSS medical software could face an environment where there products could not compete against certified proprietary products. Free and Open Source EMR vendors are not the only one effected by this. This will target any small vendor, open source or otherwise. www.emrupdate.com is writing a group letter for the CCHIT feedback process which points this out. http://www.emrupdate.com/forums/thread/46564.aspx I think that we should consider also writing a group letter. I would be willing to author this, if I knew that once it was written and reviewed, that some of the influential people on this list might sign it. Another possiblity is to piggy-back on the emrupdate letter. Thoughts? -- Fred Trotter SynSeer, Consultant http://www.fredtrotter.com http://www.synseer.com phone: (480)290-8109 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/openhealth/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [openhealth] CCHIT biased towards proprietary software??
Rod Roark wrote: This is equivalent to ignoring the practical issues that Fred raised. I disagree. The practical issues Fred raised are real concerns, but the software companies we're competing against throw a *lot* of money into validation and certification - especially HIPAA compliance (in the U.S.). You may find that CCHIT's costs are insignficant in that light. Perhaps the problem isn't the cost of any certification, but rather the lack of a solid business that is able to properly support open source development. As an OpenEMR developer and supporter, there's no way that such a model would do anything useful for me. Well, if you're volunteering I think you have a point. But, you might agree with me if your sole job were to develop OpenEMR as an open source product and you were being paid US$70,000 per year. Nobody is going to pay thousands of dollars for certification of free software -- not to mention that such software by its nature will be continually evolving and so quickly rendering any given certification obsolete. And why not? I'm not being flippant. It's a serious question. What's wrong with doing that? What's wrong with going to the expense to show that your open source product meets the same quality controls as the big vendor products? If open souce leads to a viable business model, the money will be there. Richard -- Rod www.sunsetsystems.com Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/openhealth/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
workflow diagram Re: [openhealth] Demonstrations Standards.
Nice work flow diagram. One of the more difficult things I've encountered in 10+ years of health care software development is documenting the work flow. The hallmark of a good clinic hospital seems to be the ability to adjust the work flow to meet the need. There's the work flow the system expects, what's documented in the continum of care protocol, and then there's what happens on the day to day. Here's what I can offer for the benefit of the good: supplies -+---+---+ | | | v v v triage +-- intake -- treatment -- release | +-- administration -- billing -- payment we're having the same challenge at X12, documenting workflow that allows for the development/maintenance of the EDI transaction set. humor I think there's a game Sim City Hospital or something like that which is pretty fun to watch also. Health care work flows are so arbitrary from one place to the next you could probably document the work flows from the GAME and have something to work with too :-) /humor Richard Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/openhealth/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[openhealth] joining the group from a non-yahoo e-mail account?
I've joined this group - thanks for accepting. But, I'd like to join using a non-yahoo account. Did I miss some instruction on a web page somewhere that tells me how to do that? Thanks. Richard Schilling - New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/openhealth/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
