Re: [Opensim-users] Hoping for a fearless comparison of opensim vs unity 3D

[Wade Schuette]

(a) sorry, Maria's last name is Korolov, not what I said.   She's extremely
in-touch!

Maria Korolov 
[image: Maria Korolov's profile photo]

ma...@hypergridbusiness.com


(b)  side-bar,  the question of scalability.   If you can live with only 50
or fewer users using your system at once,  the OpenSim approach is
workable.One strength of Unity3D,  with SmartFoxServer is that you can
potentially deliver the same content to 500,000 people simultaneously with
appropriate server power and costs, but no further development.

Wade



On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 5:11 PM, Wade Schuette 
wrote:

> Did people see Maria Korlova's post today ?  I got it in a different[
> opensim ] thread, in the Digest.
> I don't think I'm supposed to repost from one list to another, but this
> was clearly intended for the open-sim
> community so I'll do it this time:
>
> == begin quote 
> I second the comments above. In my experience, Unity 3D is primarily used
> by enterprises for promotional materials -- they build an experience, and
> then they publish it on the web. This could be marketing games, campus
> tours, product simulations, etc...
>
> Unity 3D is a development platform. You need developers to create anything
> in it.
>
> OpenSim is a good fit for someone who wants a Second Life-style virtual
> environment, with in-world building tools, avatars, inventories, etc... but
> with better controls, backups, and lower-cost land. Anyone can com e in and
> build, and there's a wealth of content available -- free OARs, Linda Kellie
> freebies, Kitely Market, hypergrid stores on many grids, etc... Developers
> aren't needed to create an environment.
>
> There are some overlaps, though. Jibe and SecondPlaces are two products
> that try to build a virtual world-like system on top of Unity 3D.
>
> Another option,if you're a developer, is WebGL and HTML5. You need a
> modern browser - Chrome or Firefox -- to visit these worlds but, on the
> plus side, you don't need to download any software or install any plugins.
> It just works.
>
> And I just got off the phone with Douglas Maxwell, and the U.S. Department
> of Defense has built an entire free, open source virtual environment
> framework on top of WebGL -- https://virtual.wf
>
> So if you're leaning towards Unity 3D, take a look at that, as well.
>
> -- Maria
> === end quote =
>
>   
>



-- 
R. Wade Schuette, CDP, MBA, MPH
698 Monterey Ave
Morro Bay CA 93442
cell: 1 (734) 635-0508
fax:  1 (734) 864-0318
wade.schue...@gmail.com
___
Opensim-users mailing list
Opensim-users@opensimulator.org
http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users

Re: [Opensim-users] Hoping for a fearless comparison of opensim vs unity 3D

[Wade Schuette]

Did people see Maria Korlova's post today ?  I got it in a different[
opensim ] thread, in the Digest.
I don't think I'm supposed to repost from one list to another, but this was
clearly intended for the open-sim
community so I'll do it this time:

== begin quote 
I second the comments above. In my experience, Unity 3D is primarily used
by enterprises for promotional materials -- they build an experience, and
then they publish it on the web. This could be marketing games, campus
tours, product simulations, etc...

Unity 3D is a development platform. You need developers to create anything
in it.

OpenSim is a good fit for someone who wants a Second Life-style virtual
environment, with in-world building tools, avatars, inventories, etc... but
with better controls, backups, and lower-cost land. Anyone can com e in and
build, and there's a wealth of content available -- free OARs, Linda Kellie
freebies, Kitely Market, hypergrid stores on many grids, etc... Developers
aren't needed to create an environment.

There are some overlaps, though. Jibe and SecondPlaces are two products
that try to build a virtual world-like system on top of Unity 3D.

Another option,if you're a developer, is WebGL and HTML5. You need a modern
browser - Chrome or Firefox -- to visit these worlds but, on the plus side,
you don't need to download any software or install any plugins. It just
works.

And I just got off the phone with Douglas Maxwell, and the U.S. Department
of Defense has built an entire free, open source virtual environment
framework on top of WebGL -- https://virtual.wf

So if you're leaning towards Unity 3D, take a look at that, as well.

-- Maria
=== end quote =

  
___
Opensim-users mailing list
Opensim-users@opensimulator.org
http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users

Re: [Opensim-users] Hoping for a fearless comparison of opensim vs unity 3D

[Wade]

Some good posts with links here I look forward to reading!

 voice ---
Ramesh, from what I've seen there is no off-the-shelf browser-only voice 
client that works with Unity.  One or two are sold in the Unity store, 
but the voice quality is not what I'd call suitable for collaboration, 
aside from yelling "shoot! shoot!"


Last time I looked,  Jibe was going with Vivox voice,  but Vivox needs 
an installed client.  I'm assuming you are looking, as I was, for a 
purely browser based solution,   with capacity like Citrix GoToMeeting 
or such.


Some people I know with non-technical or one-time visitors/users have 
gone with Skype as a voice channel,  and OpenSim or SecondLife as the 
visual channel.You lose 3-D dimension of sound, but Vivox sound has 
proven to be quite erratic for class work, and for a collaboration 
either EVERYONE has sound working or it's a failure. Both Vivox and 
Linden Labs point at each other.  Not much help coming there.


--- physics --

As to physics, speaking as a former physics major,  Unity physics is 
actual physics, not a piece of junk like Second Life or OpenSim. And,   
it's possible, gasp,  to make a HINGE or an AXLE that won't explode as 
soon as you release it.  So if you need to build equipment with complex 
moving pieces that are detailed and realistic,  Unity wins hands down.


Similarly, in Unity you actually know where things are, to a millimeter, 
such as, say, the blade of a scalpel in the hand of a surgeon or 
pathologist making an incision.You can do realistic simulations 
where there are fine grained interactions of people and objects, or 
people and people. This is simply not possible in OpenSim or Second 
Life.   I built a really nice autopsy table for the Second Life Medical 
Examiner sim,  but never could get a generic pair-based animation of an 
autopsy to work, and don't think anyone can, except in broad strokes, 
and certainly not for two unknown avatar shapes.


-- props and clothes --

Moving from Second Life to Unity, things are priced about the same 
number, except that in Second Life it's Lindens and in Unity it's 
dollars.That is,  a nice dress of a particular kind in Second Life 
might take you all of a minute to find, and cost $1.50.   A workable 
mesh-based dress in Unity will probably not be available, aside from 
combat or sexy clothes,  and going to Mesh real-life stores like 
TurboSquid,   you are competing with people doing TV ads who think 
nothing of spending  $300 (three HUNDRED) for an outfit for their model.


Yes, you can get SOME avatars and clothes free from MakeHuman or DAZ,
but the choice is extremely limited.  Props similarly,  you may need to 
pay hard cash for chairs, desks, etc. that work for you.


Unity comes with NO PROPS.   Unity is not designed for building props or 
clothes or avatars, it is designed for USING them. Generally, you build 
stuff, including possibly animations in Blender (free) or Maya or 
Autodesk and import them. Or you buy them at expensive mesh-model 
stores.


-- multiuser mode --

I optimistically set out to master multiuser mode,  first using 
SmartFox3D  and then Photon.
It's doable, but it is a real pain.If you need to do this, there 
ARE a large number of Unity Builders for hire that you can find via the 
Unity store or via some shop like eLance.


https://www.elance.com

Elance makes it easy to scan prior work,   find people with good 
recommendations,   deal with payment in a way that keeps both sides of a 
short-build-contract happy, etc.   It's worth checking out.


-- shared whiteboard --

After several years of using various techniques, including Google Docs, 
for providing a shared whiteboard in Second Life  (and I think this 
would be true in Open Sim as well),   I'm finally of the opinion that 
it's just not worth the effort.


That is,  I had a shared Google Doc on a whiteboard,  and if each 
student logged into it with a password separately, exactly right, they 
could see each other's changes on the board at the front of the room.
There were two main problems --
* first,  it was hard to explain to new users how to do this correctly, 
so some would see the shared document and others would see their own 
document.
* Second, and critically,  in order to READ the document either we 
needed a large font size ( 24 point or larger) in which case we only had 
8 lines of text,   or they had to click the board to make it 
FULL-SCREEN.   OK, once you are going to take over the entire screen 
with the shared document, a shared whiteboard INSIDE the application 
isn't worth the huge bandwidth required to do it.
*  Third,  it was not possible to UPLOAD documents or DOWNLOAD them via 
Second Life shared whiteboard.


So, conclusion,  we're giving up on collaboration INSIDE SecondLife/Open 
Sim,   and going with collaboration applications open along-side the 
virtual world window, specifically Instructure's "Canvas"  ( 
http://www.instructure.com/  )

Re: [Opensim-users] Hoping for a fearless comparison of opensim vs unity 3D

[Dahlia Trimble]

>From what I've seen from your videos, you could do all of that in Unity and
probably have very good results.  I see in your one video that you interact
with the board with a Rift and I think having it in 3d may be a good choice
for that purpose. The only potential problems I see with Unity is if you
want a shared experience with more than a few users. I assume though if
Unity is coming out with a shared server then it would probably mitigate
such problems.

Unity has strengths as a platform and you may want to change the design of
your application somewhat to play to those strengths as you learn Unity.

One thing to keep in mind though, Unity is closed source. You get what you
get and you can't really modify it if it doesn't suit your needs.


On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 3:53 PM, Dr Ramesh Ramloll 
wrote:

>
> On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 6:43 PM, Toni Alatalo  wrote:
>
>> consider doing the 2d ui just on a normal 2d widget
>
>
> Hi Toni,
> the board is not a 2D widget actually, it is a 3d miniaturize version that
> looks 2D in the videos, you could build a building, with each floors
> stacked on the board, and create different configurations of buildings from
> linked parts etc...when I plant trees, it needs to have height of terrain
> info... so yes, the board is not 2D really. I tried viewing the set up
> through the rift but I did not have many people view it at the same time
> and do stuff on the board at the same time through the rift, that's where I
> am hoping to go in the future.
> can unity allow loading of pre-scripted complex objects (with different
> moveable parts) at one go like I demonstrate? or are those moves mainly for
> static objects?
> can the 2d ui in unity be viewed as a 3D object inside the scene through
> the Rift?
> Just thinking questions aloud, but they will go a long way to help me make
> a decision.
> Thanks in advance Toni
> Ramesh
>
>
>
> --
> 'Consider how the lilies grow. They do not labor or spin.'
> *Rameshsharma Ramloll* PhD, CEO CTO DeepSemaphore LLC, Affiliate *Research
> Associate Professor*, Idaho State University, Pocatello, ID 83209 Tel:
> 208-240-0040
> LinkedIn , DeepSemaphore LLC
> , RezMela , Google+
> profile 
>
> ___
> Opensim-users mailing list
> Opensim-users@opensimulator.org
> http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>
>
___
Opensim-users mailing list
Opensim-users@opensimulator.org
http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users

Re: [Opensim-users] Hoping for a fearless comparison of opensim vs unity 3D

[Toni Alatalo]

right - i was thinking about that a bit actually. i think the comment still
applies in the sense that i was mostly thinking of it from the UI point of
view - how just having like a map widget can be nicer than needing to go to
a room and adjust camera to a board etc.

with 3d one way to do that would be just put a camera on top of what you
want to show in the map and show that in the widget .. or for full screen
editing just move the main cam to top & have editing tools such as enabling
grid available?

anyhow, also as said i think doing exactly the kind of board you have is
certainly doable too.

one point would be contrasting it with the unity editor .. can it be in the
end nice the edit there, would it be nice to have some helping tools there?
and then just press play to see it.. publish it on the net as well for
collab to work? yours is yet simpler though, specific for a simple task
kind of, and the it all being in-world is somehow nice and interesting too.

~Toni


On Sat, Jul 19, 2014 at 1:53 AM, Dr Ramesh Ramloll 
wrote:

>
> On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 6:43 PM, Toni Alatalo  wrote:
>
>> consider doing the 2d ui just on a normal 2d widget
>
>
> Hi Toni,
> the board is not a 2D widget actually, it is a 3d miniaturize version that
> looks 2D in the videos, you could build a building, with each floors
> stacked on the board, and create different configurations of buildings from
> linked parts etc...when I plant trees, it needs to have height of terrain
> info... so yes, the board is not 2D really. I tried viewing the set up
> through the rift but I did not have many people view it at the same time
> and do stuff on the board at the same time through the rift, that's where I
> am hoping to go in the future.
> can unity allow loading of pre-scripted complex objects (with different
> moveable parts) at one go like I demonstrate? or are those moves mainly for
> static objects?
> can the 2d ui in unity be viewed as a 3D object inside the scene through
> the Rift?
> Just thinking questions aloud, but they will go a long way to help me make
> a decision.
> Thanks in advance Toni
> Ramesh
>
>
>
> --
> 'Consider how the lilies grow. They do not labor or spin.'
> *Rameshsharma Ramloll* PhD, CEO CTO DeepSemaphore LLC, Affiliate *Research
> Associate Professor*, Idaho State University, Pocatello, ID 83209 Tel:
> 208-240-0040
> LinkedIn , DeepSemaphore LLC
> , RezMela , Google+
> profile 
>
> ___
> Opensim-users mailing list
> Opensim-users@opensimulator.org
> http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>
>
___
Opensim-users mailing list
Opensim-users@opensimulator.org
http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users

Re: [Opensim-users] Hoping for a fearless comparison of opensim vs unity 3D

[Dr Ramesh Ramloll]

On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 6:43 PM, Toni Alatalo  wrote:

> consider doing the 2d ui just on a normal 2d widget


Hi Toni,
the board is not a 2D widget actually, it is a 3d miniaturize version that
looks 2D in the videos, you could build a building, with each floors
stacked on the board, and create different configurations of buildings from
linked parts etc...when I plant trees, it needs to have height of terrain
info... so yes, the board is not 2D really. I tried viewing the set up
through the rift but I did not have many people view it at the same time
and do stuff on the board at the same time through the rift, that's where I
am hoping to go in the future.
can unity allow loading of pre-scripted complex objects (with different
moveable parts) at one go like I demonstrate? or are those moves mainly for
static objects?
can the 2d ui in unity be viewed as a 3D object inside the scene through
the Rift?
Just thinking questions aloud, but they will go a long way to help me make
a decision.
Thanks in advance Toni
Ramesh



-- 
'Consider how the lilies grow. They do not labor or spin.'
*Rameshsharma Ramloll* PhD, CEO CTO DeepSemaphore LLC, Affiliate *Research
Associate Professor*, Idaho State University, Pocatello, ID 83209 Tel:
208-240-0040
LinkedIn , DeepSemaphore LLC
, RezMela , Google+
profile 
___
Opensim-users mailing list
Opensim-users@opensimulator.org
http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users

Re: [Opensim-users] Hoping for a fearless comparison of opensim vs unity 3D

[Toni Alatalo]

the control panel is sure nice and all but i'd really consider doing the 2d
ui just on a normal 2d widget .. could still have nice ways of seeing both
the map & the immersive 3d view, and ways of switching between them /
configuring how they both show

i think such creation & moving of objects is normal and straightforward to
do on unity, or any other engine for that matter.

like your approach, was nice to see the videos :)

~Toni


On Sat, Jul 19, 2014 at 1:29 AM, Dr Ramesh Ramloll 
wrote:

> Thanks Ai for the very thorough and informative links.
> I am considering taking a stab at re-implementing what I have here into a
> Unity environment, so I am trying to learn as much as I can before I take
> the leap, so the site is here
> http://www.rezmela.com
> may be a clip here http://youtu.be/0xVEQajPTBo
>
> The difficulties I am expecting right off the bat is how I can create an
> interface in a unity 3D world that would mimick the content creation and
> control board I describe on the site (in this case, teachers
> collaboratively build scenarios, and collaboratively control what the
> students see in 'practice space' (where the world is actually immersive
> ...a representation of the map on the board)
> The other thing is that, each objects in the library are deeply scripted,
> some directly malleable (parts can be moved through clicks) collaboratively
> e.g. a house with all objects there in, and some NPCs talk to servers and
> so on to do intelligent things ... some buildings have all the conference
> tools etc.. etc.. white boards, video viewers, u know the usual.
>  I feel that it will probably be useless for me to invest in creating a
> lot of library objects with deep functionalities, if the platform itself
> cannot be accessed by most users.
>
> Since I have no Unity3D experience whatsoever, could you, may be based on
> your gut feelings, let me know if the application at www.rezmela.com can
> be reimplemented in unity3D. From what I understand it will be a long road.
>
> Thanks Ai, just to let you know, I started using opensim, only I read
> about your work :)
> Ramesh
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 6:04 PM, Ai Austin  wrote:
>
>> My own experiments with Unity a while ago can be found via this link to
>> Unity related posts in my blog...
>>
>> http://blog.
>> inf.ed.ac.uk/atate/?s=unity3d
>>
>> A reasonable single post summary is at
>>
>> > unity3d-with-multi-user-chat-voip-and-collaboration-tools/>
>> http://blog.inf.ed.ac.uk/atate/2011/12/07/i-room-in-
>> unity3d-with-multi-user-chat-voip-and-collaboration-tools/
>>
>> This included a bit of work with multiuser servers including SmartFox and
>> Proton (the free to use versions for up to about 50 avatars), voice
>> alongside the application, use of a shared whiteboard and presentation tool
>> alongside not inside Unity, etc.
>>
>> I created a simple I-Room virtual collaboration space as a learning
>> exercise, and scripted some teleporters, web page and image serving
>> screens, etc.
>>
>> Tipodean did a Collada mesh conversion for me of the OpenVCE
>> collaboration region from an OAR and we moved that into Unity for tests but
>> with no scripting.  You can try Tipodean's systems and their other demos at
>> See http://converter.tipodean.com/unity3d/index.html
>>
>> You might also look at the work John (Pathfinder) Lester has been doing
>> in Unity3D and the Jibe framework for multi-user interactions, but that is
>> commercial and not available as open source.  See
>> http://reactiongrid.com/what.aspx
>>
>> And I believe that the next version of Unity will incudes a multi-user
>> server setup. See http://unity3d.com/5
>>
>> The issue as I see it is that such systems will be isolated islands with
>> small or separate user communities. It will take some time to build new
>> communities such as we have with Second Life or OpenSim/Hypergrid.
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Opensim-users mailing list
>> Opensim-users@opensimulator.org
>> http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>>
>
>
>
> --
> 'Consider how the lilies grow. They do not labor or spin.'
> *Rameshsharma Ramloll* PhD, CEO CTO DeepSemaphore LLC, Affiliate *Research
> Associate Professor*, Idaho State University, Pocatello, ID 83209 Tel:
> 208-240-0040
> LinkedIn , DeepSemaphore LLC
> , RezMela , Google+
> profile 
>
> ___
> Opensim-users mailing list
> Opensim-users@opensimulator.org
> http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>
>
___
Opensim-users mailing list
Opensim-users@opensimulator.org
http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users

Re: [Opensim-users] Hoping for a fearless comparison of opensim vs unity 3D

[Dr Ramesh Ramloll]

Thanks Ai for the very thorough and informative links.
I am considering taking a stab at re-implementing what I have here into a
Unity environment, so I am trying to learn as much as I can before I take
the leap, so the site is here
http://www.rezmela.com
may be a clip here http://youtu.be/0xVEQajPTBo

The difficulties I am expecting right off the bat is how I can create an
interface in a unity 3D world that would mimick the content creation and
control board I describe on the site (in this case, teachers
collaboratively build scenarios, and collaboratively control what the
students see in 'practice space' (where the world is actually immersive
...a representation of the map on the board)
The other thing is that, each objects in the library are deeply scripted,
some directly malleable (parts can be moved through clicks) collaboratively
e.g. a house with all objects there in, and some NPCs talk to servers and
so on to do intelligent things ... some buildings have all the conference
tools etc.. etc.. white boards, video viewers, u know the usual.
 I feel that it will probably be useless for me to invest in creating a lot
of library objects with deep functionalities, if the platform itself cannot
be accessed by most users.

Since I have no Unity3D experience whatsoever, could you, may be based on
your gut feelings, let me know if the application at www.rezmela.com can be
reimplemented in unity3D. From what I understand it will be a long road.

Thanks Ai, just to let you know, I started using opensim, only I read about
your work :)
Ramesh


On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 6:04 PM, Ai Austin  wrote:

> My own experiments with Unity a while ago can be found via this link to
> Unity related posts in my blog...
>
> http://blog.
> inf.ed.ac.uk/atate/?s=unity3d
>
> A reasonable single post summary is at
>
>  unity3d-with-multi-user-chat-voip-and-collaboration-tools/>
> http://blog.inf.ed.ac.uk/atate/2011/12/07/i-room-in-
> unity3d-with-multi-user-chat-voip-and-collaboration-tools/
>
> This included a bit of work with multiuser servers including SmartFox and
> Proton (the free to use versions for up to about 50 avatars), voice
> alongside the application, use of a shared whiteboard and presentation tool
> alongside not inside Unity, etc.
>
> I created a simple I-Room virtual collaboration space as a learning
> exercise, and scripted some teleporters, web page and image serving
> screens, etc.
>
> Tipodean did a Collada mesh conversion for me of the OpenVCE collaboration
> region from an OAR and we moved that into Unity for tests but with no
> scripting.  You can try Tipodean's systems and their other demos at
> See http://converter.tipodean.com/unity3d/index.html
>
> You might also look at the work John (Pathfinder) Lester has been doing in
> Unity3D and the Jibe framework for multi-user interactions, but that is
> commercial and not available as open source.  See
> http://reactiongrid.com/what.aspx
>
> And I believe that the next version of Unity will incudes a multi-user
> server setup. See http://unity3d.com/5
>
> The issue as I see it is that such systems will be isolated islands with
> small or separate user communities. It will take some time to build new
> communities such as we have with Second Life or OpenSim/Hypergrid.
>
>
> ___
> Opensim-users mailing list
> Opensim-users@opensimulator.org
> http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>



-- 
'Consider how the lilies grow. They do not labor or spin.'
*Rameshsharma Ramloll* PhD, CEO CTO DeepSemaphore LLC, Affiliate *Research
Associate Professor*, Idaho State University, Pocatello, ID 83209 Tel:
208-240-0040
LinkedIn , DeepSemaphore LLC
, RezMela , Google+
profile 
___
Opensim-users mailing list
Opensim-users@opensimulator.org
http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users

Re: [Opensim-users] Hoping for a fearless comparison of opensim vs unity 3D

[M.E. Verhagen]

No I do not have working links to opensim viewers


2014-07-18 23:29 GMT+02:00 Dr Ramesh Ramloll :

> ME Verhagen, Could you point me to some of the unity viewers to opensim
> that you speak of? That would be really neat.
> Thanks
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 5:25 PM, Dr Ramesh Ramloll 
> wrote:
>
>> 'Opensim is a multi platform server envirionment. So I guess opensim
>> runs on non graphical evririonments.
>> It would not really make sense to wanna run opensim on a tablet, it is
>> not much fun looking at the console with endless debug messages all the
>> time. '
>> :) You are really witty, I am impressed. I think most people followed
>> what I was trying to say.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 5:05 PM, M.E. Verhagen 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Opensim is a multi platform server envirionment. So I guess opensim runs
>>> on non graphical evririonments.
>>> It would not really make sense to wanna run opensim on a tablet, it is
>>> not much fun looking at the console with endless debug messages all the
>>> time.
>>>
>>> I doubt unity would make a chanche if compiled as a server application.
>>> You probably would wanna compare it with a virtual world viewer.
>>>
>>> There are lots of viewers wich you can use to connect with an opensim.
>>> Some of them even run on tablets.
>>> When I remember correctly there have been some viewers made with unity.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Opensim-users mailing list
>>> Opensim-users@opensimulator.org
>>> http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> 'Consider how the lilies grow. They do not labor or spin.'
>> *Rameshsharma Ramloll* PhD, CEO CTO DeepSemaphore LLC, Affiliate *Research
>> Associate Professor*, Idaho State University, Pocatello, ID 83209 Tel:
>> 208-240-0040
>> LinkedIn , DeepSemaphore LLC
>> , RezMela , Google+
>> profile 
>>
>
>
>
> --
> 'Consider how the lilies grow. They do not labor or spin.'
> *Rameshsharma Ramloll* PhD, CEO CTO DeepSemaphore LLC, Affiliate *Research
> Associate Professor*, Idaho State University, Pocatello, ID 83209 Tel:
> 208-240-0040
> LinkedIn , DeepSemaphore LLC
> , RezMela , Google+
> profile 
>
> ___
> Opensim-users mailing list
> Opensim-users@opensimulator.org
> http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>
>


-- 
Groningen en Hannover Opensims:   secondlife://meverhagen.nl:8002:Hannover
ZW/
___
Opensim-users mailing list
Opensim-users@opensimulator.org
http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users

Re: [Opensim-users] Hoping for a fearless comparison of opensim vs unity 3D

[Ai Austin]

My own experiments with Unity a while ago can be found via this link 
to Unity related posts in my blog...


http://blog.inf.ed.ac.uk/atate/?s=unity3d

A reasonable single post summary is at

http://blog.inf.ed.ac.uk/atate/2011/12/07/i-room-in-unity3d-with-multi-user-chat-voip-and-collaboration-tools/

This included a bit of work with multiuser servers including SmartFox 
and Proton (the free to use versions for up to about 50 avatars), 
voice alongside the application, use of a shared whiteboard and 
presentation tool alongside not inside Unity, etc.


I created a simple I-Room virtual collaboration space as a learning 
exercise, and scripted some teleporters, web page and image serving 
screens, etc.


Tipodean did a Collada mesh conversion for me of the OpenVCE 
collaboration region from an OAR and we moved that into Unity for 
tests but with no scripting.  You can try Tipodean's systems and 
their other demos at

See http://converter.tipodean.com/unity3d/index.html

You might also look at the work John (Pathfinder) Lester has been 
doing in Unity3D and the Jibe framework for multi-user interactions, 
but that is commercial and not available as open source.  See 
http://reactiongrid.com/what.aspx


And I believe that the next version of Unity will incudes a 
multi-user server setup. See http://unity3d.com/5


The issue as I see it is that such systems will be isolated islands 
with small or separate user communities. It will take some time to 
build new communities such as we have with Second Life or OpenSim/Hypergrid.


___
Opensim-users mailing list
Opensim-users@opensimulator.org
http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users

Re: [Opensim-users] Opensim-users Digest, Vol 4, Issue 16

[Maria Korolov]

I second the comments above. In my experience, Unity 3D is primarily used
by enterprises for promotional materials -- they build an experience, and
then they publish it on the web. This could be marketing games, campus
tours, product simulations, etc...

Unity 3D is a development platform. You need developers to create anything
in it.

OpenSim is a good fit for someone who wants a Second Life-style virtual
environment, with in-world building tools, avatars, inventories, etc... but
with better controls, backups, and lower-cost land. Anyone can com e in and
build, and there's a wealth of content available -- free OARs, Linda Kellie
freebies, Kitely Market, hypergrid stores on many grids, etc... Developers
aren't needed to create an environment.

There are some overlaps, though. Jibe and SecondPlaces are two products
that try to build a virtual world-like system on top of Unity 3D.

Another option,if you're a developer, is WebGL and HTML5. You need a modern
browser - Chrome or Firefox -- to visit these worlds but, on the plus side,
you don't need to download any software or install any plugins. It just
works.

And I just got off the phone with Douglas Maxwell, and the U.S. Department
of Defense has built an entire free, open source virtual environment
framework on top of WebGL -- https://virtual.wf

So if you're leaning towards Unity 3D, take a look at that, as well.

-- Maria


Maria Korolov •  508-443-1130 • ma...@hypergridbusiness.com
Editor & Publisher, *Hypergrid
Business* 
*The magazine for enterprise users of virtual worlds. *
___
Opensim-users mailing list
Opensim-users@opensimulator.org
http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users

Re: [Opensim-users] Hoping for a fearless comparison of opensim vs unity 3D

[Dr Ramesh Ramloll]

ME Verhagen, Could you point me to some of the unity viewers to opensim
that you speak of? That would be really neat.
Thanks


On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 5:25 PM, Dr Ramesh Ramloll 
wrote:

> 'Opensim is a multi platform server envirionment. So I guess opensim runs
> on non graphical evririonments.
> It would not really make sense to wanna run opensim on a tablet, it is not
> much fun looking at the console with endless debug messages all the time. '
> :) You are really witty, I am impressed. I think most people followed what
> I was trying to say.
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 5:05 PM, M.E. Verhagen 
> wrote:
>
>> Opensim is a multi platform server envirionment. So I guess opensim runs
>> on non graphical evririonments.
>> It would not really make sense to wanna run opensim on a tablet, it is
>> not much fun looking at the console with endless debug messages all the
>> time.
>>
>> I doubt unity would make a chanche if compiled as a server application.
>> You probably would wanna compare it with a virtual world viewer.
>>
>> There are lots of viewers wich you can use to connect with an opensim.
>> Some of them even run on tablets.
>> When I remember correctly there have been some viewers made with unity.
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Opensim-users mailing list
>> Opensim-users@opensimulator.org
>> http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> 'Consider how the lilies grow. They do not labor or spin.'
> *Rameshsharma Ramloll* PhD, CEO CTO DeepSemaphore LLC, Affiliate *Research
> Associate Professor*, Idaho State University, Pocatello, ID 83209 Tel:
> 208-240-0040
> LinkedIn , DeepSemaphore LLC
> , RezMela , Google+
> profile 
>



-- 
'Consider how the lilies grow. They do not labor or spin.'
*Rameshsharma Ramloll* PhD, CEO CTO DeepSemaphore LLC, Affiliate *Research
Associate Professor*, Idaho State University, Pocatello, ID 83209 Tel:
208-240-0040
LinkedIn , DeepSemaphore LLC
, RezMela , Google+
profile 
___
Opensim-users mailing list
Opensim-users@opensimulator.org
http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users

Re: [Opensim-users] Hoping for a fearless comparison of opensim vs unity 3D

[Toni Alatalo]

yes it's certainly possible, and for simple things not too complex either -
basically like Dahlia said.

for completeness about the extent of VW like collaboration, I'd expect that
adding almost any sort of functionality is theoretically possible ..
similarily to any graphics / game engine. even collaborative editing. but
you'd have to implement all that .. how you deal with the object data when
there's both local & remote changes from the net etc. like we've done on
top of Ogre3D & Three.JS in realXtend Tundra & WebTundra .. which don't
even stil have so much and advanced collab edit things as SLViewer&Opensim
(a lot of nice things do work though). probably the net libs
('middlewares') there are can make it quite nice to do.

and certainly doing something with very limited interaction, say avatars
that can move & communicate and use a shared whiteboard is not that much
and similar to what people do with unity & 3rd part network libs / servers,
or their own net & server codes, all the time i suppose.

~Toni

On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 8:07 PM, Dr Ramesh Ramloll 
 wrote:

> Hello,
> I am starting this thread so that I can get some of your thoughts on this
> matter.
> Most of the time, from what I read, and from what prospective clients tell
> me, Unity 3D is so great! why don't you develop in unity 3D. Yes it runs on
> tablets is a big plus. This I do understand. It has better physics, yes
> clearly.
> What I am not sure about, and I hope you can share your thoughts,
> is whether it would be possible to create a collaboration centric, avatar
> centric application in  unity 3D. What I mean, is that whether you can have
> within a unity 3D world, avatars using objects to create new ones
> *collaboratively* , whether you can provide users with the ability to
> change their environments in natural ways, whether objects can be collected
> and shared, whether you have a shared white board, or collaborative
> document editing within a unity 3D world. And if yes, how long will it take
> to make these happen, may be it has already happened, do let me know with
> pointers to examples.
>
> And btw, why is it that I havent come across any voice chat demos of unity
> 3D applications that  run in a browser. I am thinking if Unity3D is really
> top notch, why have these things not appeared already as applications (may
> be they have, and I haven't seen them, please point to examples, if you
> know of them).
>
> And most importantly, what does opensim offers that unity 3D does not,
> that you think is important for users out there, from various domains, such
> as education, training etc...
>
> p.s. the thoughts about HighFidelity and all these new stuff coming up
>  I still don't know, if all these wheels are going to be reinvented,
> the scene is really too messy to contemplate. It is becoming really hard
> for us developers to pick platforms. We don't have infinite resources, and
> we feel that we don't even get a chance to discuss application level
> stuffs, when the underlying platforms are already shifting so arbitrarily.
> Thanks
> Ramesh
> --
> 'Consider how the lilies grow. They do not labor or spin.'
> *Rameshsharma Ramloll* PhD, CEO CTO DeepSemaphore LLC, Affiliate *Research
> Associate Professor*, Idaho State University, Pocatello, ID 83209 Tel:
> 208-240-0040
> LinkedIn , DeepSemaphore LLC
> , RezMela , Google+
> profile 
>
> ___
> Opensim-users mailing list
> Opensim-users@opensimulator.org
> http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>
>

On Sat, Jul 19, 2014 at 12:16 AM, Alan Miller 
wrote:

>  We’ve developed a system which translates an OpenSim region into a UNITY
> scene. If there was interest it could be made available. Though support
> would be low key.
>
>
>
> Best,
>
>
>
> Alan
>
>
>
> *From:* opensim-users-boun...@opensimulator.org [mailto:
> opensim-users-boun...@opensimulator.org] *On Behalf Of *Dahlia Trimble
> *Sent:* 18 July 2014 22:12
> *To:* opensim-users@opensimulator.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Opensim-users] Hoping for a fearless comparison of
> opensim vs unity 3D
>
>
>
> Unity and OpenSimulator are not designed to cover the same application
> space. Uinty is designed for mostly single player gaming and adds a few
> features to help support multiplayer; whereas OpenSimulator is more
> designed for multi-user shared collaborative experiences. You can build a
> multi-user shared collaborative environment with Unity but it would require
> extensive development as it's not really designed for that purpose.
>
> Regarding physics, Unity has client-side physics. Whether this is "better"
> really depends on the application. For a single user game, client side
> physics can provide a more realistic experience as it's not affected by
> network communication time and physical actions/reactions

Re: [Opensim-users] Hoping for a fearless comparison of opensim vs unity 3D

[Dr Ramesh Ramloll]

'Opensim is a multi platform server envirionment. So I guess opensim runs
on non graphical evririonments.
It would not really make sense to wanna run opensim on a tablet, it is not
much fun looking at the console with endless debug messages all the time. '
:) You are really witty, I am impressed. I think most people followed what
I was trying to say.


On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 5:05 PM, M.E. Verhagen  wrote:

> Opensim is a multi platform server envirionment. So I guess opensim runs
> on non graphical evririonments.
> It would not really make sense to wanna run opensim on a tablet, it is not
> much fun looking at the console with endless debug messages all the time.
>
> I doubt unity would make a chanche if compiled as a server application.
> You probably would wanna compare it with a virtual world viewer.
>
> There are lots of viewers wich you can use to connect with an opensim.
> Some of them even run on tablets.
> When I remember correctly there have been some viewers made with unity.
>
>
>
> ___
> Opensim-users mailing list
> Opensim-users@opensimulator.org
> http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>
>


-- 
'Consider how the lilies grow. They do not labor or spin.'
*Rameshsharma Ramloll* PhD, CEO CTO DeepSemaphore LLC, Affiliate *Research
Associate Professor*, Idaho State University, Pocatello, ID 83209 Tel:
208-240-0040
LinkedIn , DeepSemaphore LLC
, RezMela , Google+
profile 
___
Opensim-users mailing list
Opensim-users@opensimulator.org
http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users

Re: [Opensim-users] Hoping for a fearless comparison of opensim vs unity 3D

[Dr Ramesh Ramloll]

Dear Alan,
Thanks, could you share with us if all the funcationalities, scripting,
behaviors in the opensim region were also translated into the unity scene?
I have had many people tell me what you just said, and they walk away with
the impression that all functionalities are maintained, I just wanted you
to confirm.
Ramesh


On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 5:16 PM, Alan Miller 
wrote:

>  We’ve developed a system which translates an OpenSim region into a UNITY
> scene. If there was interest it could be made available. Though support
> would be low key.
>
>
>
> Best,
>
>
>
> Alan
>
>
>
> *From:* opensim-users-boun...@opensimulator.org [mailto:
> opensim-users-boun...@opensimulator.org] *On Behalf Of *Dahlia Trimble
> *Sent:* 18 July 2014 22:12
> *To:* opensim-users@opensimulator.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Opensim-users] Hoping for a fearless comparison of
> opensim vs unity 3D
>
>
>
> Unity and OpenSimulator are not designed to cover the same application
> space. Uinty is designed for mostly single player gaming and adds a few
> features to help support multiplayer; whereas OpenSimulator is more
> designed for multi-user shared collaborative experiences. You can build a
> multi-user shared collaborative environment with Unity but it would require
> extensive development as it's not really designed for that purpose.
>
> Regarding physics, Unity has client-side physics. Whether this is "better"
> really depends on the application. For a single user game, client side
> physics can provide a more realistic experience as it's not affected by
> network communication time and physical actions/reactions occure relatively
> instantly. However, client-side physics brings about a new set of
> challenges in a networked, collaborative environent. Consider the following
> scenario: You have a space shooter game where asteroids are moving towards
> earth. Players fly around in spaceships and fire weapons at the asteroids
> trying to deflect them. Player A fires a weapon and the projectile strikes
> the asteroid, deflecting it and scoring a point for player A. While this
> happens, Player B also fires at the asteroid, destroying it. Due to
> networking delays, player B's computer did not receive the event signaling
> player A firing at and deflecting the asteroid until after player B had
> destroyed it. Both players believe they deserve the score but only one
> could have hit the asteroid. Had these events been processed by a central
> server, both players would have observed the events in order and it would
> be clear which player would deserve the score. Such situations are why
> multi-user shared environments usually rely on central physics and event
> processing. This is one area where Unity could use additional development.
> There are, however advantages to having some client side physics even when
> many interactions are controlled by a central server, such as some avatar
> animation effects. I believe there's a lot that could be done to make the
> SL/OpenSimulator experience appear more realistic by adding more
> client-side physics in areas where it clearly helps.
>
> I've had a fair bit of experience with interfacing Unity to OpenSimulator
> in the past; I wrote a Unity based web viewer for OpenSimulator a few years
> ago for a company named "Rezzable". Around that time I was also
> experimenting with mixing client-side and server side physics and I learned
> quite a bit about what can go wrong with trying to share client-side
> physics over a network.
>
> Regarding collaboration, Unity's editor is a single-user application.
> Editing your environment and using it are completely different situations.
> In OpenSimulator, they are combined into the same experience and others can
> observe world building in real time and participate in the process.
>
>
>
> To recap: Unity is really designed for games, and OpenSimulator is
> designed for shared, collaborative experiences. If you want to develop
> single user games or limited multi-user games, Unity is probably the best
> choice. For shared experiences, OpenSimulator pretty much works out of the
> box.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 10:07 AM, Dr Ramesh Ramloll 
> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> I am starting this thread so that I can get some of your thoughts on this
> matter.
>
> Most of the time, from what I read, and from what prospective clients tell
> me, Unity 3D is so great! why don't you develop in unity 3D. Yes it runs on
> tablets is a big plus. This I do understand. It has better physics, yes
> clearly.
>
> What I am not sure about, and I hope you can share your thoughts,
>
> is whether it would be possible to create a collaboration centric, avatar
> centric application in  unity 3D. What I mean, is that whether you can have
> within a unity 3D world, avatars using objects to create new ones
> *collaboratively* , whether you can provide users with the ability to
> change their environments in natural ways, whether objects can be collected
> and shared, whether you have a shared

Re: [Opensim-users] Hoping for a fearless comparison of opensim vs unity 3D

[Alan Miller]

We’ve developed a system which translates an OpenSim region into a UNITY scene. 
If there was interest it could be made available. Though support would be low 
key.

Best,

Alan

From: opensim-users-boun...@opensimulator.org 
[mailto:opensim-users-boun...@opensimulator.org] On Behalf Of Dahlia Trimble
Sent: 18 July 2014 22:12
To: opensim-users@opensimulator.org
Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] Hoping for a fearless comparison of opensim vs 
unity 3D

Unity and OpenSimulator are not designed to cover the same application space. 
Uinty is designed for mostly single player gaming and adds a few features to 
help support multiplayer; whereas OpenSimulator is more designed for multi-user 
shared collaborative experiences. You can build a multi-user shared 
collaborative environment with Unity but it would require extensive development 
as it's not really designed for that purpose.
Regarding physics, Unity has client-side physics. Whether this is "better" 
really depends on the application. For a single user game, client side physics 
can provide a more realistic experience as it's not affected by network 
communication time and physical actions/reactions occure relatively instantly. 
However, client-side physics brings about a new set of challenges in a 
networked, collaborative environent. Consider the following scenario: You have 
a space shooter game where asteroids are moving towards earth. Players fly 
around in spaceships and fire weapons at the asteroids trying to deflect them. 
Player A fires a weapon and the projectile strikes the asteroid, deflecting it 
and scoring a point for player A. While this happens, Player B also fires at 
the asteroid, destroying it. Due to networking delays, player B's computer did 
not receive the event signaling player A firing at and deflecting the asteroid 
until after player B had destroyed it. Both players believe they deserve the 
score but only one could have hit the asteroid. Had these events been processed 
by a central server, both players would have observed the events in order and 
it would be clear which player would deserve the score. Such situations are why 
multi-user shared environments usually rely on central physics and event 
processing. This is one area where Unity could use additional development. 
There are, however advantages to having some client side physics even when many 
interactions are controlled by a central server, such as some avatar animation 
effects. I believe there's a lot that could be done to make the 
SL/OpenSimulator experience appear more realistic by adding more client-side 
physics in areas where it clearly helps.
I've had a fair bit of experience with interfacing Unity to OpenSimulator in 
the past; I wrote a Unity based web viewer for OpenSimulator a few years ago 
for a company named "Rezzable". Around that time I was also experimenting with 
mixing client-side and server side physics and I learned quite a bit about what 
can go wrong with trying to share client-side physics over a network.
Regarding collaboration, Unity's editor is a single-user application. Editing 
your environment and using it are completely different situations. In 
OpenSimulator, they are combined into the same experience and others can 
observe world building in real time and participate in the process.

To recap: Unity is really designed for games, and OpenSimulator is designed for 
shared, collaborative experiences. If you want to develop single user games or 
limited multi-user games, Unity is probably the best choice. For shared 
experiences, OpenSimulator pretty much works out of the box.

On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 10:07 AM, Dr Ramesh Ramloll 
mailto:r.raml...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hello,
I am starting this thread so that I can get some of your thoughts on this 
matter.
Most of the time, from what I read, and from what prospective clients tell me, 
Unity 3D is so great! why don't you develop in unity 3D. Yes it runs on tablets 
is a big plus. This I do understand. It has better physics, yes clearly.
What I am not sure about, and I hope you can share your thoughts,
is whether it would be possible to create a collaboration centric, avatar 
centric application in  unity 3D. What I mean, is that whether you can have 
within a unity 3D world, avatars using objects to create new ones 
*collaboratively* , whether you can provide users with the ability to change 
their environments in natural ways, whether objects can be collected and 
shared, whether you have a shared white board, or collaborative document 
editing within a unity 3D world. And if yes, how long will it take to make 
these happen, may be it has already happened, do let me know with pointers to 
examples.

And btw, why is it that I havent come across any voice chat demos of unity 3D 
applications that  run in a browser. I am thinking if Unity3D is really top 
notch, why have these things not appeared already as applications (may be they 
have, and I haven't seen them, please point to examples, if you

Re: [Opensim-users] Hoping for a fearless comparison of opensim vs unity 3D

[Dahlia Trimble]

Unity and OpenSimulator are not designed to cover the same application
space. Uinty is designed for mostly single player gaming and adds a few
features to help support multiplayer; whereas OpenSimulator is more
designed for multi-user shared collaborative experiences. You can build a
multi-user shared collaborative environment with Unity but it would require
extensive development as it's not really designed for that purpose.

Regarding physics, Unity has client-side physics. Whether this is "better"
really depends on the application. For a single user game, client side
physics can provide a more realistic experience as it's not affected by
network communication time and physical actions/reactions occure relatively
instantly. However, client-side physics brings about a new set of
challenges in a networked, collaborative environent. Consider the following
scenario: You have a space shooter game where asteroids are moving towards
earth. Players fly around in spaceships and fire weapons at the asteroids
trying to deflect them. Player A fires a weapon and the projectile strikes
the asteroid, deflecting it and scoring a point for player A. While this
happens, Player B also fires at the asteroid, destroying it. Due to
networking delays, player B's computer did not receive the event signaling
player A firing at and deflecting the asteroid until after player B had
destroyed it. Both players believe they deserve the score but only one
could have hit the asteroid. Had these events been processed by a central
server, both players would have observed the events in order and it would
be clear which player would deserve the score. Such situations are why
multi-user shared environments usually rely on central physics and event
processing. This is one area where Unity could use additional development.
There are, however advantages to having some client side physics even when
many interactions are controlled by a central server, such as some avatar
animation effects. I believe there's a lot that could be done to make the
SL/OpenSimulator experience appear more realistic by adding more
client-side physics in areas where it clearly helps.

I've had a fair bit of experience with interfacing Unity to OpenSimulator
in the past; I wrote a Unity based web viewer for OpenSimulator a few years
ago for a company named "Rezzable". Around that time I was also
experimenting with mixing client-side and server side physics and I learned
quite a bit about what can go wrong with trying to share client-side
physics over a network.

Regarding collaboration, Unity's editor is a single-user application.
Editing your environment and using it are completely different situations.
In OpenSimulator, they are combined into the same experience and others can
observe world building in real time and participate in the process.

To recap: Unity is really designed for games, and OpenSimulator is designed
for shared, collaborative experiences. If you want to develop single user
games or limited multi-user games, Unity is probably the best choice. For
shared experiences, OpenSimulator pretty much works out of the box.


On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 10:07 AM, Dr Ramesh Ramloll 
wrote:

> Hello,
> I am starting this thread so that I can get some of your thoughts on this
> matter.
> Most of the time, from what I read, and from what prospective clients tell
> me, Unity 3D is so great! why don't you develop in unity 3D. Yes it runs on
> tablets is a big plus. This I do understand. It has better physics, yes
> clearly.
> What I am not sure about, and I hope you can share your thoughts,
> is whether it would be possible to create a collaboration centric, avatar
> centric application in  unity 3D. What I mean, is that whether you can have
> within a unity 3D world, avatars using objects to create new ones
> *collaboratively* , whether you can provide users with the ability to
> change their environments in natural ways, whether objects can be collected
> and shared, whether you have a shared white board, or collaborative
> document editing within a unity 3D world. And if yes, how long will it take
> to make these happen, may be it has already happened, do let me know with
> pointers to examples.
>
> And btw, why is it that I havent come across any voice chat demos of unity
> 3D applications that  run in a browser. I am thinking if Unity3D is really
> top notch, why have these things not appeared already as applications (may
> be they have, and I haven't seen them, please point to examples, if you
> know of them).
>
> And most importantly, what does opensim offers that unity 3D does not,
> that you think is important for users out there, from various domains, such
> as education, training etc...
>
> p.s. the thoughts about HighFidelity and all these new stuff coming up
>  I still don't know, if all these wheels are going to be reinvented,
> the scene is really too messy to contemplate. It is becoming really hard
> for us developers to pick platforms. We don't have in

Re: [Opensim-users] Hoping for a fearless comparison of opensim vs unity 3D

[M.E. Verhagen]

Opensim is a multi platform server envirionment. So I guess opensim runs on
non graphical evririonments.
It would not really make sense to wanna run opensim on a tablet, it is not
much fun looking at the console with endless debug messages all the time.

I doubt unity would make a chanche if compiled as a server application. You
probably would wanna compare it with a virtual world viewer.

There are lots of viewers wich you can use to connect with an opensim. Some
of them even run on tablets.
When I remember correctly there have been some viewers made with unity.
___
Opensim-users mailing list
Opensim-users@opensimulator.org
http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users

[Opensim-users] Hoping for a fearless comparison of opensim vs unity 3D

[Dr Ramesh Ramloll]

Hello,
I am starting this thread so that I can get some of your thoughts on this
matter.
Most of the time, from what I read, and from what prospective clients tell
me, Unity 3D is so great! why don't you develop in unity 3D. Yes it runs on
tablets is a big plus. This I do understand. It has better physics, yes
clearly.
What I am not sure about, and I hope you can share your thoughts,
is whether it would be possible to create a collaboration centric, avatar
centric application in  unity 3D. What I mean, is that whether you can have
within a unity 3D world, avatars using objects to create new ones
*collaboratively* , whether you can provide users with the ability to
change their environments in natural ways, whether objects can be collected
and shared, whether you have a shared white board, or collaborative
document editing within a unity 3D world. And if yes, how long will it take
to make these happen, may be it has already happened, do let me know with
pointers to examples.

And btw, why is it that I havent come across any voice chat demos of unity
3D applications that  run in a browser. I am thinking if Unity3D is really
top notch, why have these things not appeared already as applications (may
be they have, and I haven't seen them, please point to examples, if you
know of them).

And most importantly, what does opensim offers that unity 3D does not, that
you think is important for users out there, from various domains, such as
education, training etc...

p.s. the thoughts about HighFidelity and all these new stuff coming up 
I still don't know, if all these wheels are going to be reinvented, the
scene is really too messy to contemplate. It is becoming really hard for us
developers to pick platforms. We don't have infinite resources, and we feel
that we don't even get a chance to discuss application level stuffs, when
the underlying platforms are already shifting so arbitrarily.
Thanks
Ramesh
-- 
'Consider how the lilies grow. They do not labor or spin.'
*Rameshsharma Ramloll* PhD, CEO CTO DeepSemaphore LLC, Affiliate *Research
Associate Professor*, Idaho State University, Pocatello, ID 83209 Tel:
208-240-0040
LinkedIn , DeepSemaphore LLC
, RezMela , Google+
profile 
___
Opensim-users mailing list
Opensim-users@opensimulator.org
http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users