RE: Generating a lot of randomness...
I see things for adding entropy, loading files, etc. I don't see anything about generating random numbers. Am I missing something so obvious if it was a snake it would have bitten me by now? RAND_bytes DS __ OpenSSL Project http://www.openssl.org User Support Mailing Listopenssl-users@openssl.org Automated List Manager [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Generating a lot of randomness...
Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 12:22:30 -0400 From: C Wegrzyn [EMAIL PROTECTED] I have to generate quite a few random keys (and iv's) during a days. It comes out to about 1 million keys (16 bytes each) and 1 million iv's (16 bytes each). I tried using /dev/random and /dev/urandom but in one case it blocks too much of the time and in the other seems to run pretty slow. I tried using EGAD et al to no avail. So I decided to take a different approach. I am hoping to hear from others how they might have solved the problem. I thought I would take a hash of the message and using it as the salt call EVP_BytesToKey. I was wondering what others think of this solution. I've seen this approach: Use the hardware random number generator HRNG to seed a pseudorandom number generator PSRG. Use PSRG to generate random numbers. Each n random numbers, reseed PSRG from HRNG. -- Ken Goldman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 914-784-7646 __ OpenSSL Project http://www.openssl.org User Support Mailing Listopenssl-users@openssl.org Automated List Manager [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Generating a lot of randomness...
I can't add anything beyond what is available on a AMD or Intel motherboard. So is there a built-in HRNG that I can get to (if so, where is the driver for it)? Thanks again, Chuck Wegrzyn Ken Goldman wrote: Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 12:22:30 -0400 From: C Wegrzyn [EMAIL PROTECTED] I have to generate quite a few random keys (and iv's) during a days. It comes out to about 1 million keys (16 bytes each) and 1 million iv's (16 bytes each). I tried using /dev/random and /dev/urandom but in one case it blocks too much of the time and in the other seems to run pretty slow. I tried using EGAD et al to no avail. So I decided to take a different approach. I am hoping to hear from others how they might have solved the problem. I thought I would take a hash of the message and using it as the salt call EVP_BytesToKey. I was wondering what others think of this solution. I've seen this approach: Use the hardware random number generator HRNG to seed a pseudorandom number generator PSRG. Use PSRG to generate random numbers. Each n random numbers, reseed PSRG from HRNG. __ OpenSSL Project http://www.openssl.org User Support Mailing Listopenssl-users@openssl.org Automated List Manager [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Generating a lot of randomness...
I can't add anything beyond what is available on a AMD or Intel motherboard. So is there a built-in HRNG that I can get to (if so, where is the driver for it)? Use /dev/urandom to seed your own PRNG. Or use it to seed OpenSSL's PRNG. Why are you asking on this list anyway? Did you try OpenSSL's PRNG and find it insufficient? DS __ OpenSSL Project http://www.openssl.org User Support Mailing Listopenssl-users@openssl.org Automated List Manager [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Generating a lot of randomness...
Generating one or two random numbers over a period of time isn't a big deal. Generating 100,000+ 128 bit random numbers an hour taxes /dev/random and /dev/urandom. Even the use of EGAD doesn't help. If you re-read the thread you will see that I wrote what I thought was a reasonable approach and looking for concrete criticism of it or other ways. C David Schwartz wrote: I can't add anything beyond what is available on a AMD or Intel motherboard. So is there a built-in HRNG that I can get to (if so, where is the driver for it)? Use /dev/urandom to seed your own PRNG. Or use it to seed OpenSSL's PRNG. Why are you asking on this list anyway? Did you try OpenSSL's PRNG and find it insufficient? DS __ OpenSSL Project http://www.openssl.org User Support Mailing Listopenssl-users@openssl.org Automated List Manager [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ OpenSSL Project http://www.openssl.org User Support Mailing Listopenssl-users@openssl.org Automated List Manager [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Generating a lot of randomness...
Generating one or two random numbers over a period of time isn't a big deal. Generating 100,000+ 128 bit random numbers an hour taxes /dev/random and /dev/urandom. Even the use of EGAD doesn't help. Right. If you re-read the thread you will see that I wrote what I thought was a reasonable approach and looking for concrete criticism of it or other ways. But why not the obvious approach -- using OpenSSL's RNG? DS __ OpenSSL Project http://www.openssl.org User Support Mailing Listopenssl-users@openssl.org Automated List Manager [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Generating a lot of randomness...
I see things for adding entropy, loading files, etc. I don't see anything about generating random numbers. Am I missing something so obvious if it was a snake it would have bitten me by now? Chuck Wegrzyn David Schwartz wrote: Generating one or two random numbers over a period of time isn't a big deal. Generating 100,000+ 128 bit random numbers an hour taxes /dev/random and /dev/urandom. Even the use of EGAD doesn't help. Right. If you re-read the thread you will see that I wrote what I thought was a reasonable approach and looking for concrete criticism of it or other ways. But why not the obvious approach -- using OpenSSL's RNG? DS __ OpenSSL Project http://www.openssl.org User Support Mailing Listopenssl-users@openssl.org Automated List Manager [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ OpenSSL Project http://www.openssl.org User Support Mailing Listopenssl-users@openssl.org Automated List Manager [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Generating a lot of randomness...
C Wegrzyn wrote: I have to generate quite a few random keys (and iv's) during a days. It comes out to about 1 million keys (16 bytes each) and 1 million iv's (16 bytes each). I tried using /dev/random and /dev/urandom but in one case it blocks too much of the time and in the other seems to run pretty slow. I tried using EGAD et al to no avail. So I decided to take a different approach. I am hoping to hear from others how they might have solved the problem. I thought I would take a hash of the message and using it as the salt call EVP_BytesToKey. I was wondering what others think of this solution. I would say that qualifies as close to the definition of bad from a cryptographic standpoint. ;-) Use /dev/random to seed Yarrow, or another PRNG, if you need a lot of random material. Don't make it a function of anything that isn't a nonce. __ OpenSSL Project http://www.openssl.org User Support Mailing Listopenssl-users@openssl.org Automated List Manager [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Generating a lot of randomness...
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of C Wegrzyn Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 10:14 AM To: Ken Goldman Cc: openssl-users@openssl.org Subject: Re: Generating a lot of randomness... I can't add anything beyond what is available on a AMD or Intel motherboard. So is there a built-in HRNG that I can get to (if so, where is the driver for it)? What operating system are you using? Ted __ OpenSSL Project http://www.openssl.org User Support Mailing Listopenssl-users@openssl.org Automated List Manager [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Generating a lot of randomness...
Linux (gentoo variant). C. Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of C Wegrzyn Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 10:14 AM To: Ken Goldman Cc: openssl-users@openssl.org Subject: Re: Generating a lot of randomness... I can't add anything beyond what is available on a AMD or Intel motherboard. So is there a built-in HRNG that I can get to (if so, where is the driver for it)? What operating system are you using? Ted __ OpenSSL Project http://www.openssl.org User Support Mailing Listopenssl-users@openssl.org Automated List Manager [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ OpenSSL Project http://www.openssl.org User Support Mailing Listopenssl-users@openssl.org Automated List Manager [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Generating a lot of randomness...
This is a few years old, but may be useful. The code illustrates the use of the HMAC variant on ANSI X9.17 key generation as described in the paper, used to generate random byte strings. It uses the hash functions in the OpenSSL libraries. Paper: http://www.tenebras.com/papers/SecureRandom.html Code: http://www.tenebras.com/code/hmac-prng.tar.gz __ OpenSSL Project http://www.openssl.org User Support Mailing Listopenssl-users@openssl.org Automated List Manager [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Generating a lot of randomness...
I thought that Linux's random device now supports the HRNG's for Intel, AMD and Via. Here's the docs on the Intel HRNG: http://www.linuxhq.com/kernel/v2.4/3/Documentation/i810_rng.txt What does menuconfig say? The Linux driver used to be built on the old Theodore Ts'o code, which is not sufficiently random for very high crypto. Maybe your Linux distribution still uses this code? An overview of the VIA Technologies HRNG is here: http://www.via.com.tw/en/initiatives/padlock/hardware.jsp FreeBSD 5.x has a driver for this in it's /dev/random device. An overview of the HRNG in the Intel CPU's (P3 and later) is here: http://www.cryptography.com/resources/whitepapers/IntelRNG.pdf Another very good technique is to use a simple PC cam with the lenscap on. Here's the link: http://www.lavarnd.org/what/index.html Have fun! Ted -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of C Wegrzyn Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 4:14 PM To: openssl-users@openssl.org Cc: Ken Goldman Subject: Re: Generating a lot of randomness... Linux (gentoo variant). C. Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of C Wegrzyn Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 10:14 AM To: Ken Goldman Cc: openssl-users@openssl.org Subject: Re: Generating a lot of randomness... I can't add anything beyond what is available on a AMD or Intel motherboard. So is there a built-in HRNG that I can get to (if so, where is the driver for it)? What operating system are you using? Ted __ OpenSSL Project http://www.openssl.org User Support Mailing Listopenssl-users@openssl.org Automated List Manager [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ OpenSSL Project http://www.openssl.org User Support Mailing Listopenssl-users@openssl.org Automated List Manager [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ OpenSSL Project http://www.openssl.org User Support Mailing Listopenssl-users@openssl.org Automated List Manager [EMAIL PROTECTED]
