Re: [openstack-dev] The Evolution of core developer to maintainer?

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 On 04/02/2015 02:26 PM, Joe Gordon wrote: > So, let me take a step back here. I would like to see at least 2 to > 3x more people in a given project to feel empowered and have > badges, and make it possible for part time upstream developers to > hold

Re: [openstack-dev] The Evolution of core developer to maintainer?

On Fri, Apr 3, 2015 at 1:39 AM, Thierry Carrez wrote: > Joe Gordon wrote: > > On Thu, Apr 2, 2015 at 3:14 AM, Thierry Carrez > > wrote: > > > >> Joe Gordon wrote: > >> > I cannot speak for all projects, but at least in Nova you have to > be a > >> > nova

Re: [openstack-dev] The Evolution of core developer to maintainer?

Joe Gordon wrote: > On Thu, Apr 2, 2015 at 3:14 AM, Thierry Carrez > wrote: > >> Joe Gordon wrote: >> > I cannot speak for all projects, but at least in Nova you have to be a >> > nova-core to be part of nova-drivers. >> >> And would you describe tha

Re: [openstack-dev] The Evolution of core developer to maintainer?

Joe Gordon wrote: On Thu, Apr 2, 2015 at 3:14 AM, Thierry Carrez mailto:thie...@openstack.org>> wrote: Joe Gordon wrote: > > My main objection to the model you propose is its binary nature. You > > bundle "core reviewing" duties with "drivers" duties into a single

Re: [openstack-dev] The Evolution of core developer to maintainer?

On Thu, Apr 2, 2015 at 3:14 AM, Thierry Carrez wrote: > Joe Gordon wrote: > >> My main objection to the model you propose is its binary nature. You > >> bundle "core reviewing" duties with "drivers" duties into a single > >> group. That simplification means that drivers have to be cor

Re: [openstack-dev] The Evolution of core developer to maintainer?

> On Apr 2, 2015, at 9:02 AM, Thierry Carrez wrote: > > Maru Newby wrote: >>> On Apr 2, 2015, at 3:26 AM, Thierry Carrez wrote: >>> What we need to do instead is reviving the "drivers" concept (we can >>> rename it "maintainers" if you really like that term), separate from the >>> "core reviewe

Re: [openstack-dev] The Evolution of core developer to maintainer?

> On Apr 1, 2015, at 7:19 PM, Jay Pipes wrote: > > On 04/01/2015 12:31 PM, Duncan Thomas wrote: >> On 1 April 2015 at 10:04, Joshua Harlow > > wrote: >> >>+1 to this. There will always be people who will want to work on fun >>stuff and those who don't; it's

Re: [openstack-dev] The Evolution of core developer to maintainer?

Jay Pipes wrote: On 04/01/2015 12:31 PM, Duncan Thomas wrote: On 1 April 2015 at 10:04, Joshua Harlow mailto:harlo...@outlook.com>> wrote: +1 to this. There will always be people who will want to work on fun stuff and those who don't; it's the job of leadership in the community to direct people

Re: [openstack-dev] The Evolution of core developer to maintainer?

Maru Newby wrote: >> On Apr 2, 2015, at 3:26 AM, Thierry Carrez wrote: >> What we need to do instead is reviving the "drivers" concept (we can >> rename it "maintainers" if you really like that term), separate from the >> "core reviewers" concept. One can be a project "driver" and a "core >> revie

Re: [openstack-dev] The Evolution of core developer to maintainer?

> On Apr 2, 2015, at 3:26 AM, Thierry Carrez wrote: > > Maru Newby wrote: >> [...] Many of us in the Neutron >> community find this taxonomy restrictive and not representative >> of all the work that makes the project possible. > > We seem to be after the same end goal. I just disagree that ren

Re: [openstack-dev] The Evolution of core developer to maintainer?

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 On 04/02/2015 03:22 AM, Sylvain Bauza wrote: > I was originally pro giving a limited set of merge powers to > subteams for a specific codepath, but my personal experience made > me think that it can't work that way in Nova at the moment - just > bec

Re: [openstack-dev] The Evolution of core developer to maintainer?

On 02/04/15 12:26 +0200, Thierry Carrez wrote: Maru Newby wrote: [...] Many of us in the Neutron community find this taxonomy restrictive and not representative of all the work that makes the project possible. We seem to be after the same end goal. I just disagree that renaming "core reviewers

Re: [openstack-dev] The Evolution of core developer to maintainer?

Maru Newby wrote: > [...] Many of us in the Neutron > community find this taxonomy restrictive and not representative > of all the work that makes the project possible. We seem to be after the same end goal. I just disagree that renaming "core reviewers" to "maintainers" is a positive step toward

Re: [openstack-dev] The Evolution of core developer to maintainer?

Joe Gordon wrote: >> My main objection to the model you propose is its binary nature. You >> bundle "core reviewing" duties with "drivers" duties into a single >> group. That simplification means that drivers have to be core reviewers, >> and that core reviewers have to be drivers.

Re: [openstack-dev] The Evolution of core developer to maintainer?

On 2 April 2015 at 03:07, Ian Wienand wrote: > > IMO requiring two cores to approve *every* change is too much. What > we should do is move the responsibility downwards. Currently, as a > contributor I am only 1/3 responsible for my change making it through. > I write it, test it, clean it up a

Re: [openstack-dev] The Evolution of core developer to maintainer?

Le 02/04/2015 03:19, Jay Pipes a écrit : On 04/01/2015 12:31 PM, Duncan Thomas wrote: On 1 April 2015 at 10:04, Joshua Harlow mailto:harlo...@outlook.com>> wrote: +1 to this. There will always be people who will want to work on fun stuff and those who don't; it's the job of leadership

Re: [openstack-dev] The Evolution of core developer to maintainer?

On 04/01/2015 06:07 PM, Ian Wienand wrote: On 04/02/2015 09:02 AM, Jeremy Stanley wrote: but since parties who don't understand our mostly non-hierarchical community can see those sets of access controls, they cling to them as a sign of importance and hierarchy of the people listed within. On

Re: [openstack-dev] The Evolution of core developer to maintainer?

On 04/01/2015 12:31 PM, Duncan Thomas wrote: On 1 April 2015 at 10:04, Joshua Harlow mailto:harlo...@outlook.com>> wrote: +1 to this. There will always be people who will want to work on fun stuff and those who don't; it's the job of leadership in the community to direct people if th

Re: [openstack-dev] The Evolution of core developer to maintainer?

On 04/01/2015 03:23 AM, Julien Danjou wrote: The problem I see now, is that random people who has very little knowledge of $PROJECT or OpenStack as its whole jump in random review and put a -1 in Gerrit. And then never remove it. And then your patch is stuck for ever in review. Probably because w

Re: [openstack-dev] The Evolution of core developer to maintainer?

On 04/02/2015 09:02 AM, Jeremy Stanley wrote: but since parties who don't understand our mostly non-hierarchical community can see those sets of access controls, they cling to them as a sign of importance and hierarchy of the people listed within. There is no hierarchy for submitting code -- th

Re: [openstack-dev] The Evolution of core developer to maintainer?

On 2015-04-01 14:35:22 -0700 (-0700), Maru Newby wrote: > I find your perspective on the term ‘core reviewer’ to be > interesting indeed, and for me it underscores the need to consider > whether using the term outside of gerrit is justified. Agreed, that's why I said I'm worried that our community

Re: [openstack-dev] The Evolution of core developer to maintainer?

> On Apr 1, 2015, at 1:47 PM, Jeremy Stanley wrote: > > On 2015-04-01 12:00:53 -0700 (-0700), Maru Newby wrote: >> Given how important trust and relationships are to the functioning >> of individual projects, I think we’re past the point where we >> should allow our tooling to be the limiting fa

Re: [openstack-dev] The Evolution of core developer to maintainer?

On 2015-04-01 12:00:53 -0700 (-0700), Maru Newby wrote: > Given how important trust and relationships are to the functioning > of individual projects, I think we’re past the point where we > should allow our tooling to be the limiting factor in how we > structure ourselves. I'm definitely not sugg

Re: [openstack-dev] The Evolution of core developer to maintainer?

> On Apr 1, 2015, at 2:52 AM, Thierry Carrez wrote: > > - Some people are core reviewers and maintainers (or "drivers", to reuse > the openstack terminology we already have for that) > - Some people are core reviewers only (because they can't commit 90% of > their work time to work on project pr

Re: [openstack-dev] The Evolution of core developer to maintainer?

> On Apr 1, 2015, at 6:09 AM, Jeremy Stanley wrote: > > And here is the crux of the situation, which I think bears > highlighting. These "empowered groups" are (or at least started out > as) nothing more than an attempt to map responsibilities onto the > ACLs available to our projects in the too

Re: [openstack-dev] The Evolution of core developer to maintainer?

On Wed, Apr 1, 2015 at 2:41 AM, Thierry Carrez wrote: > Joe Gordon wrote: > > I am starting this thread based on Thierry's feedback on [0]. Instead > > of writing the same thing twice, you can look at the rendered html from > > that patch [1]. Neutron tried to go from core to maintainer but afte

Re: [openstack-dev] The Evolution of core developer to maintainer?

Duncan Thomas wrote: On 1 April 2015 at 10:04, Joshua Harlow mailto:harlo...@outlook.com>> wrote: +1 to this. There will always be people who will want to work on fun stuff and those who don't; it's the job of leadership in the community to direct people if they can (but also the

Re: [openstack-dev] The Evolution of core developer to maintainer?

Julien Danjou wrote: On Wed, Apr 01 2015, Jeremy Stanley wrote: Responsibilities not tied to specific controls in our tools do exist in abundance, but they tend to be more fluid and ad-hoc because in most cases there's been no need to wrap authorization/enforcement around them. What I worry is

Re: [openstack-dev] The Evolution of core developer to maintainer?

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 04/01/2015 06:31 PM, Duncan Thomas wrote: > Right now there are some strong indications that there are areas we > are very weak at (nova network still being preferred to neutron I don't think it's correct. As per latest summit survey [1], nova-netw

Re: [openstack-dev] The Evolution of core developer to maintainer?

On 1 April 2015 at 12:52, Thierry Carrez wrote: > > > Yes, these are not orthogonal ideas. The question should be rephrased to > > 'which description do you identify the most with: core > > developer/reviewer or maintainer?' > > - Some people are core reviewers and maintainers (or "drivers", to r

Re: [openstack-dev] The Evolution of core developer to maintainer?

On 1 April 2015 at 10:04, Joshua Harlow wrote: > > +1 to this. There will always be people who will want to work on fun stuff > and those who don't; it's the job of leadership in the community to direct > people if they can (but also the same job of that leadership to understand > that they can't

Re: [openstack-dev] The Evolution of core developer to maintainer?

> On Apr 1, 2015, at 3:52 AM, Thierry Carrez wrote: > > Joe Gordon wrote: >> On Tue, Mar 31, 2015 at 5:46 PM, Dean Troyer > > wrote: >> >>On Tue, Mar 31, 2015 at 5:30 PM, Joe Gordon >> wrote: >> >>Do you feel like a core d

Re: [openstack-dev] The Evolution of core developer to maintainer?

On Wed, Apr 01 2015, Jeremy Stanley wrote: > Responsibilities not tied to specific controls in our tools do exist > in abundance, but they tend to be more fluid and ad-hoc because in > most cases there's been no need to wrap authorization/enforcement > around them. What I worry is happening is tha

Re: [openstack-dev] The Evolution of core developer to maintainer?

On 2015-04-01 11:41:29 +0200 (+0200), Thierry Carrez wrote: [...] > We used[1] to have 4 groups for each project, mostly driven by the > need to put people in ACL groups. The PTL (which has ultimate > control), the Drivers (the trusted group around the PTL which had > control over blueprint targeti

Re: [openstack-dev] The Evolution of core developer to maintainer?

On 04/01/2015 05:41 AM, Thierry Carrez wrote: > Joe Gordon wrote: >> I am starting this thread based on Thierry's feedback on [0]. Instead >> of writing the same thing twice, you can look at the rendered html from >> that patch [1]. Neutron tried to go from core to maintainer but after >> input fr

Re: [openstack-dev] The Evolution of core developer to maintainer?

On Tue, 31 Mar 2015, Anita Kuno wrote: I am really having a problem with a lack of common vision. Now this may just be my problem here, and if it is, that is fine, I'll own that. It's not just you. But other folks, as Dean mentions above, do indicate in their language that they feel somethin

Re: [openstack-dev] The Evolution of core developer to maintainer?

Joe Gordon wrote: > On Tue, Mar 31, 2015 at 5:46 PM, Dean Troyer > wrote: > > On Tue, Mar 31, 2015 at 5:30 PM, Joe Gordon > wrote: > > Do you feel like a core deveper/reviewer (we initially called > them core develo

Re: [openstack-dev] The Evolution of core developer to maintainer?

Joe Gordon wrote: > I am starting this thread based on Thierry's feedback on [0]. Instead > of writing the same thing twice, you can look at the rendered html from > that patch [1]. Neutron tried to go from core to maintainer but after > input from the TC and others, they are keeping the term 'cor

Re: [openstack-dev] The Evolution of core developer to maintainer?

On Wed, Apr 01 2015, Joshua Harlow wrote: > +1 to this. There will always be people who will want to work on fun stuff and > those who don't; it's the job of leadership in the community to direct people > if they can (but also the same job of that leadership to understand that they > can't direct

Re: [openstack-dev] The Evolution of core developer to maintainer?

John Griffith wrote: On Tue, Mar 31, 2015 at 4:30 PM, Joe Gordon mailto:joe.gord...@gmail.com>> wrote: I am starting this thread based on Thierry's feedback on [0]. Instead of writing the same thing twice, you can look at the rendered html from that patch [1]. Neutron tried to go f

Re: [openstack-dev] The Evolution of core developer to maintainer?

On 03/31/2015 06:24 PM, John Griffith wrote: What is missing for me here however is "who picks these special people". I'm convinced that this does more to promote the idea of "special" contributors than anything else. Maybe that's actually what you want, but it seemed based on your message tha

Re: [openstack-dev] The Evolution of core developer to maintainer?

On Tue, Mar 31, 2015 at 5:24 PM, John Griffith wrote: > > > On Tue, Mar 31, 2015 at 4:30 PM, Joe Gordon wrote: > >> I am starting this thread based on Thierry's feedback on [0]. Instead of >> writing the same thing twice, you can look at the rendered html from that >> patch [1]. Neutron tried t

Re: [openstack-dev] The Evolution of core developer to maintainer?

On Tue, Mar 31, 2015 at 5:46 PM, Dean Troyer wrote: > On Tue, Mar 31, 2015 at 5:30 PM, Joe Gordon wrote: > >> Do you feel like a core deveper/reviewer (we initially called them core >> developers) [1]: >> >> In OpenStack a core developer is a developer who has submitted enough >> high quality co

Re: [openstack-dev] The Evolution of core developer to maintainer?

On 03/31/2015 08:46 PM, Dean Troyer wrote: > On Tue, Mar 31, 2015 at 5:30 PM, Joe Gordon wrote: > >> Do you feel like a core deveper/reviewer (we initially called them core >> developers) [1]: >> >> In OpenStack a core developer is a developer who has submitted enough high >> quality code and don

Re: [openstack-dev] The Evolution of core developer to maintainer?

> On Mar 31, 2015, at 6:24 PM, John Griffith wrote: > > > > On Tue, Mar 31, 2015 at 4:30 PM, Joe Gordon > wrote: > I am starting this thread based on Thierry's feedback on [0]. Instead of > writing the same thing twice, you can look at the rendered html from th

Re: [openstack-dev] The Evolution of core developer to maintainer?

On Tue, Mar 31, 2015 at 5:30 PM, Joe Gordon wrote: > Do you feel like a core deveper/reviewer (we initially called them core > developers) [1]: > > In OpenStack a core developer is a developer who has submitted enough high > quality code and done enough code reviews that we trust their code revie

Re: [openstack-dev] The Evolution of core developer to maintainer?

On Tue, Mar 31, 2015 at 4:30 PM, Joe Gordon wrote: > I am starting this thread based on Thierry's feedback on [0]. Instead of > writing the same thing twice, you can look at the rendered html from that > patch [1]. Neutron tried to go from core to maintainer but after input from > the TC and oth

[openstack-dev] The Evolution of core developer to maintainer?

I am starting this thread based on Thierry's feedback on [0]. Instead of writing the same thing twice, you can look at the rendered html from that patch [1]. Neutron tried to go from core to maintainer but after input from the TC and others, they are keeping the term 'core' but are clarifying what