Re: Oracle License for Training

2003-02-13 Thread Mogens Nørgaard
Whoever is going to help do it, please make sure it has a really good wait interface from the beginning :). Orr, Steve wrote: RE: Oracle License for Training For me the question is not "If?" but "When?" Any prognostications? -

RE: Oracle License for Training

2003-02-13 Thread Orr, Steve
Title: RE: Oracle License for Training For me the question is not "If?" but "When?" Any prognostications? -Original Message- From: Cary Millsap [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 9:54 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

Re: Oracle License for Training

2003-02-12 Thread Lyndon Tiu
On Wednesday 12 February 2003 09:58 pm, Post, Ethan wrote: > I guess if I was going to download and learn another database it would > probably be PostgreSQL http://www.postgresql.org/ it seems to be a bit more > in the enterprise level of databases in comparison to MySQL but I have not > been follo

RE: Oracle License for Training

2003-02-12 Thread Post, Ethan
I guess if I was going to download and learn another database it would probably be PostgreSQL http://www.postgresql.org/ it seems to be a bit more in the enterprise level of databases in comparison to MySQL but I have not been following MySQL development for some time so perhaps things are coming a

Re: Oracle License for Training

2003-02-12 Thread Mogens Nørgaard
D]> cc: Subject: Re: Oracle License for Training Quoting Ora NT DBA <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: Hi All, This conversation didn't start out in dealing with educational institutions, it started out as a group that wants to use it to make money. Oracle is maki

Re: Oracle License for Training

2003-02-12 Thread Mogens Nørgaard
I always wake up when somebody uses the words "every effort". Probably because English is not my first language. Maybe not. I'm not sure what legitimate education institutions are with respect to Oracle education :). I've seen Oracle taught at universities, and it's not necessarily as impressi

Re: Oracle License for Training

2003-02-12 Thread Mogens Nørgaard
The business models for Education partners are a little different: Microsoft will let you pay some fixed amout per year - and they require you to be certified instructors - and then you can keep whatever you make from teaching those classes. Oracle will let you pay pretty much the same fixed am

RE: Oracle License for Training

2003-02-12 Thread Cary Millsap
E-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> cc: Subject: RE: Oracle License for Training A question for the DBA Gods on this list: Is it worth the time/effort to download MySQL and learn it? Is there going to be a viable (meaning $$) market for the product in the future? Or should I leave

RE: Oracle License for Training

2003-02-12 Thread Jared . Still
it wont' matter much. Jared "Weiss, Rick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/11/2003 03:04 PM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> cc: Subject: RE: Oracle Licens

RE: Oracle License for Training

2003-02-12 Thread DENNIS WILLIAMS
Rick - I agree that it can't hurt. Looking at another database can even give you a fresh perspective on Oracle. Some assignments involve converting an application from MySQL to Oracle. The critical question in my mind is whether you see yourself as more of a development DBA or a production DBA? I c

RE: Oracle License for Training

2003-02-12 Thread Rodd Holman
It never hurts to diversify your skills. As everyone on this list will tell you MySQL is no where near on equal footing with Oracle. However, it is used in A LOT of small shops in the Linux/Apache/PHP/MySQL combination. Keeping your options open and current is always a good idea. Rodd Holman O

RE: Oracle License for Training

2003-02-11 Thread Weiss, Rick
A question for the DBA Gods on this list: Is it worth the time/effort to download MySQL and learn it? Is there going to be a viable (meaning $$) market for the product in the future? Or should I leave all the egg$ in the Oracle basket? Musing for fun and profit. Rick Weiss -Original Messag

Re: Oracle License for Training

2003-02-11 Thread Jared . Still
Tiu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/11/2003 12:14 PM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> cc: Subject: Re: Oracle License for Training Quoting Ora NT DBA <[EMAIL PROTECT

Re: Oracle License for Training

2003-02-11 Thread Lyndon Tiu
Quoting Ora NT DBA <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > You are WRONG! The Oracle Academic Initiative has 100's of members. > In > California > there are more than 200. > I should move to Californiaa. -- Lyndon Tiu -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Lyndon Tiu I

RE: Oracle License for Training

2003-02-11 Thread Schilling, Ben
The Madison (Wisconsin) Area Technical College has several Oracle classes available. Some of them are in their CIS-Certificate in Oracle Database Administration Associate Curriculum. -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 2:44 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L All

RE: Oracle License for Training

2003-02-11 Thread DENNIS WILLIAMS
Lyndon - Lost cause. Everybody is already teaching a lot of Microsoft products. But Oracle benefits because there is a cachet from being the "high-end" product. Cray Computer was good at exploiting that. Dennis Williams DBA, 40%OCP Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Se

Re: Oracle License for Training

2003-02-11 Thread Keith Moore
ubject: Re: Oracle License for Training You are WRONG! The Oracle Academic Initiative has 100's of members.  In Californiathere are more than 200.John[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Quoting Markus Reger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: I have to manage MySQL and ORACLE for the web likewise

Re: Oracle License for Training

2003-02-11 Thread Lyndon Tiu
Quoting Ora NT DBA <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Hi All, > > This conversation didn't start out in dealing with educational > institutions, it > started out as a group that wants to use it to make money. > > Oracle is making every effort to work with legitimate education > institutions. The > Oracle

Re: Oracle License for Training

2003-02-11 Thread Lyndon Tiu
Quoting Keith Moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Oracle makes money there too. I teach Oracle classes at a community > college. > They pay a fee to Oracle and use the same books, powerpoint slides, > etc. > It's the exact same class, just taught by someone other than > Oracle. It's > amazing that more p

Re: Oracle License for Training

2003-02-11 Thread Ora NT DBA
You are WRONG! The Oracle Academic Initiative has 100's of members.  In California there are more than 200. John [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Quoting Markus Reger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: I have to manage MySQL and ORACLE for the web likewise. There seems to be a strong tendency towards

Re: Oracle License for Training

2003-02-11 Thread Ora NT DBA
Hi  All, This conversation didn't start out in dealing with educational institutions, it started out as a group that wants to use it to make money. Oracle is making every effort to work with legitimate education institutions.  The Oracle Academic Initiative does exactly what you describe.

Re: Oracle License for Training

2003-02-11 Thread Keith Moore
Oracle makes money there too. I teach Oracle classes at a community college. They pay a fee to Oracle and use the same books, powerpoint slides, etc. It's the exact same class, just taught by someone other than Oracle. It's amazing that more people don't take these classes instead of through Oracle

RE: Oracle License for Training

2003-02-11 Thread Lyndon Tiu
Quoting DENNIS WILLIAMS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Richard - How do you think the Oracle Education division would > react to this > proposal? ;-) >Never underestimate the power of corporate politics. But > seriously a > large organization succeeds to the extent that it can look at the > long-term

RE: Oracle License for Training

2003-02-11 Thread Lyndon Tiu
Quoting Markus Reger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > I have to manage MySQL and ORACLE for the web likewise. > There seems to be a strong tendency towards MySQL if people newly > enter the area of webpresence, students or profs doesn't make a > difference. > For web work. MySQL is very popular (Together

RE: Oracle License for Training

2003-02-11 Thread Markus Reger
I have to manage MySQL and ORACLE for the web likewise. There seems to be a strong tendency towards MySQL if people newly enter the area of webpresence, students or profs doesn't make a difference. PLEASE spare me the pain: I *DO* know the differences between ORACLE and MySQL. (... at least some

RE: Oracle License for Training

2003-02-11 Thread DENNIS WILLIAMS
Richard - How do you think the Oracle Education division would react to this proposal? ;-) Never underestimate the power of corporate politics. But seriously a large organization succeeds to the extent that it can look at the long-term good of the organization. Overall I think Oracle Corp. has

RE: Oracle License for Training

2003-02-11 Thread Lyndon Tiu
Quoting Richard Ji <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > I totally agree. I alway thought Oracle should just give it > away to class rooms. The more people knows Oracle, they will > want to use it at their work. At a small, mid size company is > often the tech guy who will have a big saying over what > techno

RE: Oracle License for Training

2003-02-11 Thread Richard Ji
I totally agree. I alway thought Oracle should just give it away to class rooms. The more people knows Oracle, they will want to use it at their work. At a small, mid size company is often the tech guy who will have a big saying over what technology to use. -Original Message- Sent: Tues

Re: Oracle License for Training

2003-02-11 Thread Lyndon Tiu
This sounds like Oracle is pricing/licensing itself out of the market. This is not good because I see a lot of new student with MS SQL skills and no Oracle skills. Guess what, they will want to work with MS SQL when they finally start working. Some of these grads will become bosses one day and the

Re: Oracle License for Training

2003-02-11 Thread Rodd Holman
Maria, Here's something you may want to consider with this licensing.  If it comes to blow$ with Oracle, and you do have to pay, go for the standard edition not the enterprise edition.  It is much cheaper on a named user basis.  Cost is in hundreds per user vs. thousands per user.  You could ac

Re: Oracle License for Training

2003-02-10 Thread Maria Aurora VT de la Vega
Hello Mogens, I really got interested with your reply. You seem to know a lot about how Oracle works with their licenses. Is this information just your opinion or you know it for a fact? I'd really appreciate if you could give your "legal" opinion, about what we plan to do. For starters, we plan

Re: Oracle License for Training

2003-02-06 Thread Mogens Nørgaard
When Klaus Andersen (the guy who hired me into Oracle Denmark in 1990, and now is Managing Director of Microsoft Denmark) was head of Oracle Education world-wide he put into the standard license terms that you cannot use Oracle software for training of 3rd parties. Klaus is a very smart guy. I

Re: Oracle License for Training

2003-02-05 Thread Maria Aurora VT de la Vega
Interesting idea! =) I'll look through the license agreement (OTN) again. Then find a lawyer who's willing to be a partner... And who knows... Thanks a lot to Dennis W, Tim G, Dick G, Stephane F, jeremy P and Markus R! Thanks to everyone! I'm still open to any input/ideas/partnerships(?). Feel fr

RE: Oracle License for Training

2003-02-05 Thread DENNIS WILLIAMS
Jeremy - I should probably have been more specific. :-) Years ago I worked for a software vendor. They wanted to port their product to Oracle. They expected to receive complimentary licenses in order to do this. Most vendors bend over backwards to have you port to their product. Oracle expected tha

Re: Oracle License for Training

2003-02-05 Thread Stephane Faroult
DENNIS WILLIAMS wrote: > > Maria - Actually, I would think the best time to contact Oracle sales is > when you don't have money. Good sales people can smell money. ;-) >Some software companies are very liberal about providing their product > for development and training purposes. My impression

RE: Oracle License for Training

2003-02-05 Thread DENNIS WILLIAMS
Markus - That is what I call a creative solution! I'm no lawyer either, but excellent! Dennis Williams DBA, 40%OCP Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 9:34 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Did you ever consider that your (

Re: Oracle License for Training

2003-02-05 Thread Markus Reger
Did you ever consider that your (prospective) trainig candidates get the (for testing purposes freely downloadable) oracle software themselves and install it themselves (or assisted by you) on a good (linux - one might hope ;-)) box and then you assist them by getting along with this? I think

RE: Oracle License for Training

2003-02-05 Thread Jeremy Pulcifer
Title: RE: Oracle License for Training > From: DENNIS WILLIAMS [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > Maria - Actually, I would think the best time to contact > Oracle sales is when you don't have money. Good sales people > can smell money. ;-) Heh. >    Some s

RE: Oracle License for Training

2003-02-05 Thread DENNIS WILLIAMS
Maria - Actually, I would think the best time to contact Oracle sales is when you don't have money. Good sales people can smell money. ;-) Some software companies are very liberal about providing their product for development and training purposes. My impression has been that Oracle is NOT one o