Re: [ozmidwifery] Lotus Birth
Dear Jackie, the responses I received were no less than I expected and hoped for. If I can resolve this at source as I will try to do then it should not develop any further. If there is no evidence then it has to be the woman's right to make an informed decision from any information/resource available ie women's experiences etc. Many Thanks, Anne Original Message - From: Jackie Doolan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2005 2:03 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Lotus Birth Anne, I wish you every success and after an extensive search not surprisingly found little level one or two research on this. You have been given all the sources I know - Perhaps the WHO Care of the Umbilical Cord: a review of the evidence may be helpful? If it should come to pass that women are informed that lotus birth will not be performed and women seeking this should birth elsewhere I am very concerned at how the new Qld child safety laws could be (mis)used after this point. Fortunately this legislation has no jurisdiction over the unborn baby but when a lotus birth is demanded by a woman in a hospital that does not 'allow' it, will this then lead hospital management to threaten to envoke this legislation, using the argument that the woman is unnecessarily putting the child at risk of infection or salt absorption? I see this mandating of what women can and can not choose as the beginning of adverserial relationships between women and health care professionals (reminiscent of Qld woman refusing C/S and finding other hospital to access VBAC). In Queensland we desparately need the legal debate between woman's rights versus neonatal rights (basis of child safety law) to be played out. Jackie -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Anne Peter Moore Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 8:58 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Lotus Birth Thankyou everyone I will gather all the information etc and present this in the forum.The priority is the woman and her right to choose, I have attended women at a home LB with no problems, but unfortunatly in my position and this environment I need to make sure that they have no reason to implement unacceplble guidelines on the women, Many Thanks, Anne - Original Message - From: Kathy McCarthy-Bushby [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Ozmidwifery ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 4:55 PM Subject: Fw: [ozmidwifery] Lotus Birth Hi Anne, There is a book on lotus birth called Lotus Birth compiled by Shivam Rachana, Greenwood Press, Steeds Creek, Australia, 2000. I think i got my copy from acegraphics. The book covers some information on medical evidence with articles by Dr. Sarah Buckley Leaving well alone. A natural approach to the third stage of labour as well as some story telling by women who chose lotus birth and that's what i call women's evidence. Both forms of evidence as just as valid as each other. cheers kathy - Original Message - From: jo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 9:46 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Lotus Birth Hi Anne, I coordinate Homebirth Access Sydney and our last issue of Birthings magazine focused on Lotus Birth. It has a few birth stories in it and other information regarding the practice, how to care for the placenta, the reasons why women choose this option etc. I do have a few copies left so if you would like me to send you one just email me your address and I'll pop it in the post. You may also like to try www.womenofspirit.asn.au/docs/sb_ http://www.womenofspirit.asn.au/docs/sb_lotus_birth.pdf lotus_birth.pdf www.humantransformation.com.au http://www.humantransformation.com.au/ Good luck Jo _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Anne Peter Moore Sent: Tuesday, 18 October 2005 8:30 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] Lotus Birth There has been discussion on a committee I am involved with regarding the practice of Lotus Birth and whether women should be allowed this, I am familiar with this practice but a couple of issues were raised : What evidence is available to support this practice ? Why do women choose to do this? Is there an increased risk of infection etc ? When will the cord/placenta separate? I believe in informed choice and I am keen to present this in an evidenced based manner to allow women the choice.I have my own experience and thoughts but additional research/ evidence would be appreciated. Many Thanks Anne Brisbane. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list
Re: [ozmidwifery] Lotus Birth
Dear Jo, can I e-mail you my address of list? Many Thanks Anne - Original Message - From: brendamanning To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2005 12:59 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Lotus Birth Hi JO, Please would you send me a copy of the Birthing Mag featuring "Lotus Birth"for the Midwives Clinic at our Unit. We have requests for info this would address I'll copy the links you've suggested for women to look at. Thank you. With kind regardsBrenda Manning http://www.themidwife.com.au - Original Message - From: jo To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 8:46 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Lotus Birth Hi Anne, I coordinate Homebirth Access Sydney and our last issue of Birthings magazine focused on Lotus Birth. It has a few birth stories in it and other information regarding the practice, how to care for the placenta, the reasons why women choose this option etc. I do have a few copies left so if you would like me to send you one just email me your address and Ill pop it in the post. You may also like to try www.womenofspirit.asn.au/docs/sb_lotus_birth.pdf www.humantransformation.com.au Good luck Jo From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Anne Peter MooreSent: Tuesday, 18 October 2005 8:30 PMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: [ozmidwifery] Lotus Birth There has been discussion on a committee I am involved with regarding the practice of Lotus Birth and whether women should be "allowed" this, I am familiar with this practice buta couple ofissues were raised : What evidence is available to support this practice ? Why do women choose to do this? Is there an increased risk of infection etc ? When will the cord/placenta separate? I believe in informed choice and I am keen to present this in an evidenced based manner to allow women the choice.I have my own experience and thoughts but additional research/ evidence would be appreciated. Many Thanks Anne Brisbane.
[ozmidwifery] lotus birth
How on earth is thebaby going to absorb salt from the placenta? The cord is no longer pulsating, do they think osmosis? Have a look at research on not cutting the cord..I had a client send me a heap of information, as she believes her baby was brain damaged by the hospital staff cutting the cord when she requested they didn't. This information is on the net ( somewhere!). Robyn Dempsey
Fw: [ozmidwifery] Lotus Birth
Hi Anne, There is a book on lotus birth called Lotus Birth compiled by Shivam Rachana, Greenwood Press, Steeds Creek, Australia, 2000. I think i got my copy from acegraphics. The book covers some information on medical evidence with articles by Dr. Sarah Buckley Leaving well alone. A natural approach to the third stage of labour as well as some story telling by women who chose lotus birth and that's what i call women's evidence. Both forms of evidence as just as valid as each other. cheers kathy - Original Message - From: jo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 9:46 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Lotus Birth Hi Anne, I coordinate Homebirth Access Sydney and our last issue of Birthings magazine focused on Lotus Birth. It has a few birth stories in it and other information regarding the practice, how to care for the placenta, the reasons why women choose this option etc. I do have a few copies left so if you would like me to send you one just email me your address and I'll pop it in the post. You may also like to try www.womenofspirit.asn.au/docs/sb_ http://www.womenofspirit.asn.au/docs/sb_lotus_birth.pdf lotus_birth.pdf www.humantransformation.com.au http://www.humantransformation.com.au/ Good luck Jo _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Anne Peter Moore Sent: Tuesday, 18 October 2005 8:30 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] Lotus Birth There has been discussion on a committee I am involved with regarding the practice of Lotus Birth and whether women should be allowed this, I am familiar with this practice but a couple of issues were raised : What evidence is available to support this practice ? Why do women choose to do this? Is there an increased risk of infection etc ? When will the cord/placenta separate? I believe in informed choice and I am keen to present this in an evidenced based manner to allow women the choice.I have my own experience and thoughts but additional research/ evidence would be appreciated. Many Thanks Anne Brisbane. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Lotus Birth
I might be wrong, but I think many mammals eat the placenta. I'm trying to remember from when my family had goats when I was a young girl. I certainly remember being absolutely fascinated watching a goat give birth even though my parents tried to tear me away - I couldn't do anything but watch! Joy Joy Cocks RN (Div 1) RM CBE IBCLC BRIGHT Vic 3741 email:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Andrea Quanchi [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 14:32 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Lotus Birth I cant imagine any animal doing this as it would be too dangerous. A dragging placenta would attract to many predators and one sitting in a nest or a den would be attractive to flies etc which would bring their own problems. Andrea Quanchi On 18/10/2005, at 11:01 PM, Vedrana Valčić wrote: Just being curious, does anyone know what other mammals do? I suppose they cut the cord with their teeth, but I don't know when. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tania Smallwood Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 1:34 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Lotus Birth Here here Belinda! This notion that anyone has the right to allow or disallow women to do or not do anything when it comes to their birth, is just not cricket! Before we start debating the semantics of lotus birth, we need to all be going in to bat for women and their right to birth the way they need and want to. If this means wearing a polka dotted clown suit, or singing Dixie at the top of her voice, (or God forbid, not cutting the cord), and that's what she truly needs to be able to birth in her own way, then we need to respect that! Now that's enough from me for tonight... Tania Xx PS I have a copy of Shivam Rachana's Lotus Birth book, very interesting, lots of gorgeous photos, and certainly made me think twice before cutting the cord of my babies, we ended up leaving it for a few hours and then it just seemed right for us to cut, but I can see how and why for some families it just seems right to leave it. A bit like birth, if all's well, leave well alone... -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] lotus birth
Hi everyone, as a midwifery student, one of the women I followed thru planned a lotus birth at home thru water...as her birth unfolded, she required transfer to hospital and an em luscs, but we still managed to negotiate with a very curious OG registar for her to have a lotus birth c/s.the c/s went well and the placenta was the 'neatest' c/s placentaI have ever seen...the reg taking great carehowever what was disappointing was that the midwives on the PN floor caring for the woman afterwards refused to care for and her baby unless the placenta still attached to the baby was put in one of those yellow 'hazardous waste bags'yes believe it or not!! The woman had the placenta in a handmade velvet bag and it was not 'exposed'...we had salted the placenta, but still staff refusedso day 2 (48 hours post c/s) the woman's midwife and I took her home and continued her recovery there.. Yours in reforming midwifery Tina Pettigrew. - Original Message - From: Robyn Dempsey To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 3:07 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] lotus birth I have attended several women choosing lotus birth. We've had no infections, and no problems. The hardest time seems to be the first 24hours as mum gets use to handling bub with the cord attached. The cord goes tough like a piece of wire, so it's good to bend it to a more manageable angle for breastfeeding. Lotus birth allows for a very special time indeedit makes mummy rest and stops the 'pass the parcel' of the baby ( relatives usually aren't keen to handle bub and placenta). It is every woman's right to give birth where, how and with whom they choose. Now for the caregiver..recently I waited 8 hours for a placenta, as the mother was choosing lotus birth, which means no synto, no cord clamp and NO fiddling with the fundus or cord. I can cope with this , can you? On another note.animals are smart, they eat the cord and placenta not only to ward off predators as Andrea said, but to replace all the goodies/nutrients they may have lost from the birth. It's interesting to note that when my guinea pigs give birth, if one of the babies has something wrong, or has died, the mother doesn't eat that cord and placenta. Aren't they just amazing how they 'know'! Cheers Robyn Dempsey
Re: [ozmidwifery] Lotus Birth
Thankyou everyone I will gather all the information etc and present this in the forum.The priority is the woman and her right to choose, I have attended women at a home LB with no problems, but unfortunatly in my position and this environment I need to make sure that they have no reason to implement unacceplble guidelines on the women, Many Thanks, Anne - Original Message - From: Kathy McCarthy-Bushby [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Ozmidwifery ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 4:55 PM Subject: Fw: [ozmidwifery] Lotus Birth Hi Anne, There is a book on lotus birth called Lotus Birth compiled by Shivam Rachana, Greenwood Press, Steeds Creek, Australia, 2000. I think i got my copy from acegraphics. The book covers some information on medical evidence with articles by Dr. Sarah Buckley Leaving well alone. A natural approach to the third stage of labour as well as some story telling by women who chose lotus birth and that's what i call women's evidence. Both forms of evidence as just as valid as each other. cheers kathy - Original Message - From: jo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 9:46 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Lotus Birth Hi Anne, I coordinate Homebirth Access Sydney and our last issue of Birthings magazine focused on Lotus Birth. It has a few birth stories in it and other information regarding the practice, how to care for the placenta, the reasons why women choose this option etc. I do have a few copies left so if you would like me to send you one just email me your address and I'll pop it in the post. You may also like to try www.womenofspirit.asn.au/docs/sb_ http://www.womenofspirit.asn.au/docs/sb_lotus_birth.pdf lotus_birth.pdf www.humantransformation.com.au http://www.humantransformation.com.au/ Good luck Jo _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Anne Peter Moore Sent: Tuesday, 18 October 2005 8:30 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] Lotus Birth There has been discussion on a committee I am involved with regarding the practice of Lotus Birth and whether women should be allowed this, I am familiar with this practice but a couple of issues were raised : What evidence is available to support this practice ? Why do women choose to do this? Is there an increased risk of infection etc ? When will the cord/placenta separate? I believe in informed choice and I am keen to present this in an evidenced based manner to allow women the choice.I have my own experience and thoughts but additional research/ evidence would be appreciated. Many Thanks Anne Brisbane. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Lotus Birth
Hi JO, Please would you send me a copy of the Birthing Mag featuring "Lotus Birth"for the Midwives Clinic at our Unit. We have requests for info this would address I'll copy the links you've suggested for women to look at. Thank you. With kind regardsBrenda Manning http://www.themidwife.com.au - Original Message - From: jo To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 8:46 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Lotus Birth Hi Anne, I coordinate Homebirth Access Sydney and our last issue of Birthings magazine focused on Lotus Birth. It has a few birth stories in it and other information regarding the practice, how to care for the placenta, the reasons why women choose this option etc. I do have a few copies left so if you would like me to send you one just email me your address and Ill pop it in the post. You may also like to try www.womenofspirit.asn.au/docs/sb_lotus_birth.pdf www.humantransformation.com.au Good luck Jo From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Anne Peter MooreSent: Tuesday, 18 October 2005 8:30 PMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: [ozmidwifery] Lotus Birth There has been discussion on a committee I am involved with regarding the practice of Lotus Birth and whether women should be "allowed" this, I am familiar with this practice buta couple ofissues were raised : What evidence is available to support this practice ? Why do women choose to do this? Is there an increased risk of infection etc ? When will the cord/placenta separate? I believe in informed choice and I am keen to present this in an evidenced based manner to allow women the choice.I have my own experience and thoughts but additional research/ evidence would be appreciated. Many Thanks Anne Brisbane.
RE: [ozmidwifery] Lotus Birth
Anne, I wish you every success and after an extensive search not surprisingly found little level one or two research on this. You have been given all the sources I know - Perhaps the WHO Care of the Umbilical Cord: a review of the evidence may be helpful? If it should come to pass that women are informed that lotus birth will not be performed and women seeking this should birth elsewhere I am very concerned at how the new Qld child safety laws could be (mis)used after this point. Fortunately this legislation has no jurisdiction over the unborn baby but when a lotus birth is demanded by a woman in a hospital that does not 'allow' it, will this then lead hospital management to threaten to envoke this legislation, using the argument that the woman is unnecessarily putting the child at risk of infection or salt absorption? I see this mandating of what women can and can not choose as the beginning of adverserial relationships between women and health care professionals (reminiscent of Qld woman refusing C/S and finding other hospital to access VBAC). In Queensland we desparately need the legal debate between woman's rights versus neonatal rights (basis of child safety law) to be played out. Jackie -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Anne Peter Moore Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 8:58 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Lotus Birth Thankyou everyone I will gather all the information etc and present this in the forum.The priority is the woman and her right to choose, I have attended women at a home LB with no problems, but unfortunatly in my position and this environment I need to make sure that they have no reason to implement unacceplble guidelines on the women, Many Thanks, Anne - Original Message - From: Kathy McCarthy-Bushby [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Ozmidwifery ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 4:55 PM Subject: Fw: [ozmidwifery] Lotus Birth Hi Anne, There is a book on lotus birth called Lotus Birth compiled by Shivam Rachana, Greenwood Press, Steeds Creek, Australia, 2000. I think i got my copy from acegraphics. The book covers some information on medical evidence with articles by Dr. Sarah Buckley Leaving well alone. A natural approach to the third stage of labour as well as some story telling by women who chose lotus birth and that's what i call women's evidence. Both forms of evidence as just as valid as each other. cheers kathy - Original Message - From: jo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 9:46 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Lotus Birth Hi Anne, I coordinate Homebirth Access Sydney and our last issue of Birthings magazine focused on Lotus Birth. It has a few birth stories in it and other information regarding the practice, how to care for the placenta, the reasons why women choose this option etc. I do have a few copies left so if you would like me to send you one just email me your address and I'll pop it in the post. You may also like to try www.womenofspirit.asn.au/docs/sb_ http://www.womenofspirit.asn.au/docs/sb_lotus_birth.pdf lotus_birth.pdf www.humantransformation.com.au http://www.humantransformation.com.au/ Good luck Jo _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Anne Peter Moore Sent: Tuesday, 18 October 2005 8:30 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] Lotus Birth There has been discussion on a committee I am involved with regarding the practice of Lotus Birth and whether women should be allowed this, I am familiar with this practice but a couple of issues were raised : What evidence is available to support this practice ? Why do women choose to do this? Is there an increased risk of infection etc ? When will the cord/placenta separate? I believe in informed choice and I am keen to present this in an evidenced based manner to allow women the choice.I have my own experience and thoughts but additional research/ evidence would be appreciated. Many Thanks Anne Brisbane. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] Lotus Birth
There has been discussion on a committee I am involved with regarding the practice of Lotus Birth and whether women should be "allowed" this, I am familiar with this practice buta couple ofissues were raised : What evidence is available to support this practice ? Why do women choose to do this? Is there an increased risk of infection etc ? When will the cord/placenta separate? I believe in informed choice and I am keen to present this in an evidenced based manner to allow women the choice.I have my own experience and thoughts but additional research/ evidence would be appreciated. Many Thanks Anne Brisbane.
RE: [ozmidwifery] Lotus Birth
Hi Anne, I coordinate Homebirth Access Sydney and our last issue of Birthings magazine focused on Lotus Birth. It has a few birth stories in it and other information regarding the practice, how to care for the placenta, the reasons why women choose this option etc. I do have a few copies left so if you would like me to send you one just email me your address and Ill pop it in the post. You may also like to try www.womenofspirit.asn.au/docs/sb_lotus_birth.pdf www.humantransformation.com.au Good luck Jo From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Anne Peter Moore Sent: Tuesday, 18 October 2005 8:30 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] Lotus Birth There has been discussion on a committee I am involved with regarding the practice of Lotus Birth and whether women should be allowed this, I am familiar with this practice buta couple ofissues were raised : What evidence is available to support this practice ? Why do women choose to do this? Is there an increased risk of infection etc ? When will the cord/placenta separate? I believe in informed choice and I am keen to present this in an evidenced based manner to allow women the choice.I have my own experience and thoughts but additional research/ evidence would be appreciated. Many Thanks Anne Brisbane.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Lotus Birth
There is nothing but empirical evidence that i know of. There are some good web sites that give great stories around this issue by women who have had lotus births. There is also a book that Tania S might be able to talk more about. I believe it is to do with womens beliefs around the spiritual connection a baby has with the placenta and the gentle way of separation from it. the placenta is drained initially by sitting it in a sieve then you put salt and lavender in generous quantities. it is then placed in a bag or wrapped in a nappy and put in a special bag that is later a keepsake. It takes about three to four days to separate although like cords this is variable. I have a woman who is choosing this and it is intimately tied to her need to heal from the trauma of her first birth and her complete lack of control over the way the placenta birthed. I have real issues with always having to find evidence to 'allow' women anything just ask where the evidence is for continuous monitoring or traceviews etc... if only these were taken away until evidence of its benefits were found.. Belinda Anne Peter Moore wrote: There has been discussion on a committee I am involved with regarding the practice of Lotus Birth and whether women should be allowed this, I am familiar with this practice but a couple of issues were raised : What evidence is available to support this practice ? Why do women choose to do this? Is there an increased risk of infection etc ? When will the cord/placenta separate? I believe in informed choice and I am keen to present this in an evidenced based manner to allow women the choice.I have my own experience and thoughts but additional research/ evidence would be appreciated. Many Thanks Anne Brisbane. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.12.2/140 - Release Date: 18/10/2005 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] Lotus Birth
We should have evidence to back up any intervention we offer ie. active third stage and cutting the cord. It could be argued that a Lotus Birth is not an intervention, because essentially it involves doing nothing. So, I guess the onus is on the counter arguement to demonstrate that alternative interventions improve outcomes. Rachel From: Anne Peter Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] Lotus Birth Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 20:30:14 +1000 There has been discussion on a committee I am involved with regarding the practice of Lotus Birth and whether women should be allowed this, I am familiar with this practice but a couple of issues were raised : What evidence is available to support this practice ? Why do women choose to do this? Is there an increased risk of infection etc ? When will the cord/placenta separate? I believe in informed choice and I am keen to present this in an evidenced based manner to allow women the choice.I have my own experience and thoughts but additional research/ evidence would be appreciated. Many Thanks Anne Brisbane. _ MSN Messenger 7.5 is now out. Download it for FREE here. http://messenger.msn.co.uk -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Lotus Birth
I'm planning to put lotus birth on my list of "must haves" for my next birth in case of hospital transfer. I've heard of a few women getting LB after c-secs because the hospy assumed it was a religious custom and didn't challenge it. For me, were I unfortunate enuogh to have a c-sec, it would be the only way to ensure my child had really finished with their placenta. Whether or not we maintained a true lotus transition or not, it would cushion the blow for our baby. Lots of women on Natural Parenting have done it and there is a lot of info and discussion there around it. J - Original Message - From: Anne Peter Moore To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 8:30 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Lotus Birth There has been discussion on a committee I am involved with regarding the practice of Lotus Birth and whether women should be "allowed" this, I am familiar with this practice buta couple ofissues were raised : What evidence is available to support this practice ? Why do women choose to do this? Is there an increased risk of infection etc ? When will the cord/placenta separate? I believe in informed choice and I am keen to present this in an evidenced based manner to allow women the choice.I have my own experience and thoughts but additional research/ evidence would be appreciated. Many Thanks Anne Brisbane.
RE: [ozmidwifery] Lotus Birth
Here here Belinda! This notion that anyone has the right to allow or disallow women to do or not do anything when it comes to their birth, is just not cricket! Before we start debating the semantics of lotus birth, we need to all be going in to bat for women and their right to birth the way they need and want to. If this means wearing a polka dotted clown suit, or singing Dixie at the top of her voice, (or God forbid, not cutting the cord), and that's what she truly needs to be able to birth in her own way, then we need to respect that! Now that's enough from me for tonight... Tania Xx PS I have a copy of Shivam Rachana's Lotus Birth book, very interesting, lots of gorgeous photos, and certainly made me think twice before cutting the cord of my babies, we ended up leaving it for a few hours and then it just seemed right for us to cut, but I can see how and why for some families it just seems right to leave it. A bit like birth, if all's well, leave well alone... -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] Lotus Birth
Just being curious, does anyone know what other mammals do? I suppose they cut the cord with their teeth, but I don't know when. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tania Smallwood Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 1:34 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Lotus Birth Here here Belinda! This notion that anyone has the right to allow or disallow women to do or not do anything when it comes to their birth, is just not cricket! Before we start debating the semantics of lotus birth, we need to all be going in to bat for women and their right to birth the way they need and want to. If this means wearing a polka dotted clown suit, or singing Dixie at the top of her voice, (or God forbid, not cutting the cord), and that's what she truly needs to be able to birth in her own way, then we need to respect that! Now that's enough from me for tonight... Tania Xx PS I have a copy of Shivam Rachana's Lotus Birth book, very interesting, lots of gorgeous photos, and certainly made me think twice before cutting the cord of my babies, we ended up leaving it for a few hours and then it just seemed right for us to cut, but I can see how and why for some families it just seems right to leave it. A bit like birth, if all's well, leave well alone... -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Lotus Birth
Hello all, Just thought I'd let you know that in my limited experience, my beagle recently had pups (her first) and she nawed off the cord almost immediately after the birth of each pup.No dramatic haemorrhages, infections were noticed ! Also, a friend of mine just had her fourth daughter ( a home birth ) and chose to have a lotus birth. She told me the placenta separated on day 3, no problems. As for why, she said she was just curious to see how this baby's transition into extrauterine life would be. Catherine Pearson. - Original Message - From: Vedrana Valčić [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 11:01 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Lotus Birth Just being curious, does anyone know what other mammals do? I suppose they cut the cord with their teeth, but I don't know when. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Lotus Birth
I cant imagine any animal doing this as it would be too dangerous. A dragging placenta would attract to many predators and one sitting in a nest or a den would be attractive to flies etc which would bring their own problems. Andrea Quanchi On 18/10/2005, at 11:01 PM, Vedrana Valčić wrote: Just being curious, does anyone know what other mammals do? I suppose they cut the cord with their teeth, but I don't know when. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tania Smallwood Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 1:34 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Lotus Birth Here here Belinda! This notion that anyone has the right to allow or disallow women to do or not do anything when it comes to their birth, is just not cricket! Before we start debating the semantics of lotus birth, we need to all be going in to bat for women and their right to birth the way they need and want to. If this means wearing a polka dotted clown suit, or singing Dixie at the top of her voice, (or God forbid, not cutting the cord), and that's what she truly needs to be able to birth in her own way, then we need to respect that! Now that's enough from me for tonight... Tania Xx PS I have a copy of Shivam Rachana's Lotus Birth book, very interesting, lots of gorgeous photos, and certainly made me think twice before cutting the cord of my babies, we ended up leaving it for a few hours and then it just seemed right for us to cut, but I can see how and why for some families it just seems right to leave it. A bit like birth, if all's well, leave well alone... -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] lotus birth
I have attended several women choosing lotus birth. We've had no infections, and no problems. The hardest time seems to be the first 24hours as mum gets use to handling bub with the cord attached. The cord goes tough like a piece of wire, so it's good to bend it to a more manageable angle for breastfeeding. Lotus birth allows for a very special time indeedit makes mummy rest and stops the 'pass the parcel' of the baby ( relatives usually aren't keen to handle bub and placenta). It is every woman's right to give birth where, how and with whom they choose. Now for the caregiver..recently I waited 8 hours for a placenta, as the mother was choosing lotus birth, which means no synto, no cord clamp and NO fiddling with the fundus or cord. I can cope with this , can you? On another note.animals are smart, they eat the cord and placenta not only to ward off predators as Andrea said, but to replace all the goodies/nutrients they may have lost from the birth. It's interesting to note that when my guinea pigs give birth, if one of the babies has something wrong, or has died, the mother doesn't eat that cord and placenta. Aren't they just amazing how they 'know'! Cheers Robyn Dempsey
[ozmidwifery] Lotus birth
Julie, An interesting reference to traditional birth attendant practices in Africa, Asia and Latin America re the umbilical cord can be found in Midwives Without Training by Yvonne Lefeber, a Dutch medical anthropologist (as far as I know). In Egypt (?post-Pharaohs), Kenya, Nigeria, Sierra Leone, South Africa, Tanzania, Zambia, Zimbabwe, Indonesia, Irian Jaya, Malaysia and Papua New Guinea traditional midwives cut the cord after the placenta has birthed. In Jamaica and Mexico it is cut after it stops pulsating, in Guetemala and other parts of Latin America it is cut after the placenta births. Best wishes Liz. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] lotus birth
Thankyou Jane, I've added your site to my favourites. I will read the rest when I have more time. Julie'',. - Original Message - From: Jane Palmer Sent: Wednesday, 4 December 2002 8:10 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] lotus birth Dear Julie I have an article on my website about lotus birth by Sarah Buckley- thought you might be interested. Visit http://www.pregnancy.com.au/Lotus_birth.htm Cheers Jane Pregnancy, Birth and Beyond Caring, Professional Midwifery Services Sydney Visit http://www.pregnancy.com.au Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
Re: [ozmidwifery] lotus birth
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] lotus birth Hi, Julie...there is a lot of info on the Birthlove website (www.birthlove.com). It is a pay site - not v expensive, and SO worthwhile - heaps of info on it. Leilah McCracken, who runs it, has 8 kids : the first 5 hospital births, incl one c/sec, and the rest home births (last one unassisted). I also think Sarah Buckley has done some articles about it...in fact I think it is her articles on the Birthlove website. Hope that helps, Melissa (who is supposed to have unsubscribed to Ozmid but was just taking one last peak!) -- From: Julie Garratt [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmid [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [ozmidwifery] lotus birth Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 1:25 PM Hi fellow listers, Where can I find information on Lotus Birth? is there any dangers? what are the implications for the mother/child? I've heard of them and I'd love some more info. Sounds really spiritual and karmic. Thankyou for yet again feeding my curiosity. Julie'', Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
RE: [ozmidwifery] lotus birth
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] lotus birth Dear Julie I have an article on my website about lotus birth by Sarah Buckley- thought you might be interested. Visit http://www.pregnancy.com.au/Lotus_birth.htm Cheers Jane Pregnancy, Birth and Beyond Caring, Professional Midwifery Services Sydney Visit http://www.pregnancy.com.au
[ozmidwifery] lotus birth
Hi fellow listers, Where can I find information on Lotus Birth? is there any dangers? what are the implications for the mother/child? I've heard of them and I'd love some more info. Sounds really spiritual and karmic. Thankyou for yet again feeding my curiosity. Julie'',Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
RE: [ozmidwifery] lotus birth
Sarah is a GP who has had 4 homebirths and writes wonderful articles, she has written quite a lot about Lotus Birth. Good Luck [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Julie GarrattSent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 4:25 PMTo: ozmidSubject: [ozmidwifery] lotus birth Hi fellow listers, Where can I find information on Lotus Birth? is there any dangers? what are the implications for the mother/child? I've heard of them and I'd love some more info. Sounds really spiritual and karmic. Thankyou for yet again feeding my curiosity. Julie'', Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
Re: [ozmidwifery] Lotus birth
On 8/10/02 9:05 PM, Vicki Chan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Love to you, Jan ... And love and warm wishes to Rachel and Scott... I met them at Katoomba and again when Nic and I came for Singing the Bones...Blessings, Vicki -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Jan Robinson Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2002 6:00 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Shivam Rachana Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Lotus birth On 1/10/02 10:34 AM, Larry Megan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jan wrote Rachel and Scott's baby boy, Alejandre was born through water around lunch time into the arms of both parents where he stayed until his placenta was born and gently collected (a lotus birth again, as was Stella's) Jan, can you please explain to me if Lotus birth is any different in the case of a stillbirth baby, time it takes etc? Is the palcenta kept with the baby forever? Sorry if this is a bit upfront but I am genuinely interested. thankyou Megan. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. Hello Megan I seem to be ages getting to respond to this - but for your information, Stella's placenta stayed with her in the little placenta bag her grand mother had made for it. The placenta was kept clean, wrappings changed daily. It was salted on day two and we put a few drops of lavender oil on the outside of the bag on day four. We kept Stella's skin beautiful with calendula cream that stopped it drying out. Stella was cremated in her best clothes and her placenta in it's little bag lying beside her and still connected. Her ashes are complete in a special sealed container with her photograph on the outside. With Alehandre (AJ) the placenta was floated in a plastic culender and allowed to drip dryfor an hour or two. After that, Scott and I removed any blood clots from the maternal surface and the placenta was wrapped in white chux towels that were changed frequently during the first 24 hours. By that time the placenta had shrunk dramatically to about one third it's original size and the cord had shriveled too. The shrunken placenta was salted once there was no danger of any transmission through to AJ (helps drying and reduces odor) During the next few days the placenta stayed in it's bag and the cord became very brittle as all the Wharton's jelly disappeared. It was fantastic to see the two arteries and the vein coursing through the clear, dry cord tissue. On day four the brittle cord broke so that was the end of the Lotus connection between AJ and his placenta. The small amount of cord stump remained until he was a week old. Scott and Rachel are waiting until AJ's umbilicus has completely sealed over with new skin before he gets to shower with his father. What a lucky baby AJ is - he could not have gotten off to a better start. He goes for walks each day in the fresh air in his Hug - a - bub and after that he usually spends the rest of the rather hot days we are having here in Sydney reclining semi-naked on a bean bag. Nights are spent tucked in with his mother and father. Oh what a beautiful feeling to be so honoured to be involved with such a special family. Jan -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. Dear Vicki Rachel and Scott have some great video footage of her lotus waterbirth. Are you still looking for stuff? Love Jan -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Lotus birth
Andrea told me a couple of years ago that Beatrix Smulders can too. It took me a long time to tell anyone for fear they would think I was...well, you know! One of the obs I work with says he thinks he can nearly smell it too - Original Message - From: Sally Westbury [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2002 10:42 AM Subject: FW: [ozmidwifery] Lotus birth Hi Lynne, You absolutely startled me. I thought I was the only one!! I smell babies and know they are coming in a very similar time frame. It is an astonishing experience and a gift. Love Sally -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Lynne Staff Sent: Thursday, 10 October 2002 5:40 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Lotus birth For those births I have been there for, it was what the mother wished - I still ask them about what they want to do for the labour and the birth, their wishes for the baby. the placenta and afterwards. I have worked with some strong women giving birth to stillborn babes, and their partners too. I find it incredible how the women do what they need to do for their babe to be born, when they know that their babe is not going to open its eyes, take a breath, stretch and explore its space, once born, nuzzle at the breast. For those of you who know me, I talk about smelling the baby about 20-40 minutes before it can be seen and if I don't smell anything, the baby isn't coming out without some help - can't explain it - it just happens (and it's not liquor, blood, vaginal mucus). The last birth I was at where we knew the babe had been dead for a few days prior to the birth, I could still smell him, and it surprised me - I don't know what I was expecting in this case, but I was crouched next to the woman on the floor and that beautiful (but beyond description) smell came to me and I knew he would be there soon. I told the mother and father - she was scared to give birth to him - I think we have all seen women hugging their baby inside them, knowing that while they are inside still, no-one can get to the babe and it is still theirs, and maybe, just maybe, it will be alive..and when I told her I could smell the baby, she nodded and quietly said to me OK, my son - it's time for me to meet you - Original Message - From: Larry Megan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 9:22 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Lotus birth Thankyou Jan, I appreciate how busy you are. It sounds like an experience you will have with you forever. Lotus birth is a beautiful gift for a baby born still. We cut the cord on our third baby after a few hours and the arteries and vein were visibly sticking out the end, also amazing to see. If people can bare with me on the morbid stuff, I would like to know what the standard practice(hospital care)would be for a known still baby, in regards to the placenta? thanks again Megan. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Jan Robinson Sent: Tuesday, 8 October 2002 5:30 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Shivam Rachana Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Lotus birth On 1/10/02 10:34 AM, Larry Megan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jan wrote Rachel and Scott's baby boy, Alejandre was born through water around lunch time into the arms of both parents where he stayed until his placenta was born and gently collected (a lotus birth again, as was Stella's) Jan, can you please explain to me if Lotus birth is any different in the case of a stillbirth baby, time it takes etc? Is the palcenta kept with the baby forever? Sorry if this is a bit upfront but I am genuinely interested. thankyou Megan. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. Hello Megan I seem to be ages getting to respond to this - but for your information, Stella's placenta stayed with her in the little placenta bag her grand mother had made for it. The placenta was kept clean, wrappings changed daily. It was salted on day two and we put a few drops of lavender oil on the outside of the bag on day four. We kept Stella's skin beautiful with calendula cream that stopped it drying out. Stella was cremated in her best clothes and her placenta in it's little bag lying beside her and still connected. Her ashes are complete in a special sealed container with her photograph on the outside. With Alehandre (AJ) the placenta was floated in a plastic culender and allowed to drip dryfor an hour or two. After that, Scott and I removed any blood clots from the maternal surface and the placenta was wrapped in white chux towels that were changed frequently during the first 24 hours. By that time the placenta had shrunk
Re: [ozmidwifery] Lotus birth
I cant smell, but I do have a brilliant sense of intuition for the same issues. Could this maybe be related in some way? Is this ( smelling) a learn-ed response to our heightened abilities to forsee the immediate future ? In a similar vein, I can ' tell' without laying a finger on a women whether she is going to make it through her labour without c/s or excessive intervention. I can also 'tell' how dilated a woman is without touching her. Sometimes I think this is more of a spiritual awareness of the whole process than simply years of experience. Or maybe i'm just full-of-it and just guess lucky. I'm so intrigued. Robin - Original Message - From: Lynne Staff [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2002 5:29 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Lotus birth Andrea told me a couple of years ago that Beatrix Smulders can too. It took me a long time to tell anyone for fear they would think I was...well, you know! One of the obs I work with says he thinks he can nearly smell it too - Original Message - From: Sally Westbury [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2002 10:42 AM Subject: FW: [ozmidwifery] Lotus birth Hi Lynne, You absolutely startled me. I thought I was the only one!! I smell babies and know they are coming in a very similar time frame. It is an astonishing experience and a gift. Love Sally -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Lynne Staff Sent: Thursday, 10 October 2002 5:40 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Lotus birth For those births I have been there for, it was what the mother wished - I still ask them about what they want to do for the labour and the birth, their wishes for the baby. the placenta and afterwards. I have worked with some strong women giving birth to stillborn babes, and their partners too. I find it incredible how the women do what they need to do for their babe to be born, when they know that their babe is not going to open its eyes, take a breath, stretch and explore its space, once born, nuzzle at the breast. For those of you who know me, I talk about smelling the baby about 20-40 minutes before it can be seen and if I don't smell anything, the baby isn't coming out without some help - can't explain it - it just happens (and it's not liquor, blood, vaginal mucus). The last birth I was at where we knew the babe had been dead for a few days prior to the birth, I could still smell him, and it surprised me - I don't know what I was expecting in this case, but I was crouched next to the woman on the floor and that beautiful (but beyond description) smell came to me and I knew he would be there soon. I told the mother and father - she was scared to give birth to him - I think we have all seen women hugging their baby inside them, knowing that while they are inside still, no-one can get to the babe and it is still theirs, and maybe, just maybe, it will be alive..and when I told her I could smell the baby, she nodded and quietly said to me OK, my son - it's time for me to meet you - Original Message - From: Larry Megan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 9:22 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Lotus birth Thankyou Jan, I appreciate how busy you are. It sounds like an experience you will have with you forever. Lotus birth is a beautiful gift for a baby born still. We cut the cord on our third baby after a few hours and the arteries and vein were visibly sticking out the end, also amazing to see. If people can bare with me on the morbid stuff, I would like to know what the standard practice(hospital care)would be for a known still baby, in regards to the placenta? thanks again Megan. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Jan Robinson Sent: Tuesday, 8 October 2002 5:30 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Shivam Rachana Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Lotus birth On 1/10/02 10:34 AM, Larry Megan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jan wrote Rachel and Scott's baby boy, Alejandre was born through water around lunch time into the arms of both parents where he stayed until his placenta was born and gently collected (a lotus birth again, as was Stella's) Jan, can you please explain to me if Lotus birth is any different in the case of a stillbirth baby, time it takes etc? Is the palcenta kept with the baby forever? Sorry if this is a bit upfront but I am genuinely interested. thankyou Megan. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. Hello Megan I seem to be ages getting to respond
Re: [ozmidwifery] Lotus birth
For those births I have been there for, it was what the mother wished - I still ask them about what they want to do for the labour and the birth, their wishes for the baby. the placenta and afterwards. I have worked with some strong women giving birth to stillborn babes, and their partners too. I find it incredible how the women do what they need to do for their babe to be born, when they know that their babe is not going to open its eyes, take a breath, stretch and explore its space, once born, nuzzle at the breast. For those of you who know me, I talk about smelling the baby about 20-40 minutes before it can be seen and if I don't smell anything, the baby isn't coming out without some help - can't explain it - it just happens (and it's not liquor, blood, vaginal mucus). The last birth I was at where we knew the babe had been dead for a few days prior to the birth, I could still smell him, and it surprised me - I don't know what I was expecting in this case, but I was crouched next to the woman on the floor and that beautiful (but beyond description) smell came to me and I knew he would be there soon. I told the mother and father - she was scared to give birth to him - I think we have all seen women hugging their baby inside them, knowing that while they are inside still, no-one can get to the babe and it is still theirs, and maybe, just maybe, it will be alive..and when I told her I could smell the baby, she nodded and quietly said to me OK, my son - it's time for me to meet you - Original Message - From: Larry Megan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 9:22 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Lotus birth Thankyou Jan, I appreciate how busy you are. It sounds like an experience you will have with you forever. Lotus birth is a beautiful gift for a baby born still. We cut the cord on our third baby after a few hours and the arteries and vein were visibly sticking out the end, also amazing to see. If people can bare with me on the morbid stuff, I would like to know what the standard practice(hospital care)would be for a known still baby, in regards to the placenta? thanks again Megan. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Jan Robinson Sent: Tuesday, 8 October 2002 5:30 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Shivam Rachana Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Lotus birth On 1/10/02 10:34 AM, Larry Megan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jan wrote Rachel and Scott's baby boy, Alejandre was born through water around lunch time into the arms of both parents where he stayed until his placenta was born and gently collected (a lotus birth again, as was Stella's) Jan, can you please explain to me if Lotus birth is any different in the case of a stillbirth baby, time it takes etc? Is the palcenta kept with the baby forever? Sorry if this is a bit upfront but I am genuinely interested. thankyou Megan. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. Hello Megan I seem to be ages getting to respond to this - but for your information, Stella's placenta stayed with her in the little placenta bag her grand mother had made for it. The placenta was kept clean, wrappings changed daily. It was salted on day two and we put a few drops of lavender oil on the outside of the bag on day four. We kept Stella's skin beautiful with calendula cream that stopped it drying out. Stella was cremated in her best clothes and her placenta in it's little bag lying beside her and still connected. Her ashes are complete in a special sealed container with her photograph on the outside. With Alehandre (AJ) the placenta was floated in a plastic culender and allowed to drip dryfor an hour or two. After that, Scott and I removed any blood clots from the maternal surface and the placenta was wrapped in white chux towels that were changed frequently during the first 24 hours. By that time the placenta had shrunk dramatically to about one third it's original size and the cord had shriveled too. The shrunken placenta was salted once there was no danger of any transmission through to AJ (helps drying and reduces odor) During the next few days the placenta stayed in it's bag and the cord became very brittle as all the Wharton's jelly disappeared. It was fantastic to see the two arteries and the vein coursing through the clear, dry cord tissue. On day four the brittle cord broke so that was the end of the Lotus connection between AJ and his placenta. The small amount of cord stump remained until he was a week old. Scott and Rachel are waiting until AJ's umbilicus has completely sealed over with new skin before he gets to shower with his father. What a lucky baby AJ is - he could not have gotten off to a better start. He goes for walks each day in the fresh air in his Hug - a - bub and after that he usually spends the rest
Re: [ozmidwifery] Lotus birth
On 10/10/02 12:31 AM, Kirsten Blacker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Often the placenta of a stillborn baby goes to pathology for examination to try and find a cause for the FDIU Kirsten - Original Message - From: Larry Megan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 4:22 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Lotus birth Thankyou Jan, I appreciate how busy you are. It sounds like an experience you will have with you forever. Lotus birth is a beautiful gift for a baby born still. We cut the cord on our third baby after a few hours and the arteries and vein were visibly sticking out the end, also amazing to see. If people can bare with me on the morbid stuff, I would like to know what the standard practice(hospital care)would be for a known still baby, in regards to the placenta? thanks again Megan. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Jan Robinson Sent: Tuesday, 8 October 2002 5:30 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Shivam Rachana Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Lotus birth On 1/10/02 10:34 AM, Larry Megan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jan wrote Rachel and Scott's baby boy, Alejandre was born through water around lunch time into the arms of both parents where he stayed until his placenta was born and gently collected (a lotus birth again, as was Stella's) Jan, can you please explain to me if Lotus birth is any different in the case of a stillbirth baby, time it takes etc? Is the palcenta kept with the baby forever? Sorry if this is a bit upfront but I am genuinely interested. thankyou Megan. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. Hello Megan I seem to be ages getting to respond to this - but for your information, Stella's placenta stayed with her in the little placenta bag her grand mother had made for it. The placenta was kept clean, wrappings changed daily. It was salted on day two and we put a few drops of lavender oil on the outside of the bag on day four. We kept Stella's skin beautiful with calendula cream that stopped it drying out. Stella was cremated in her best clothes and her placenta in it's little bag lying beside her and still connected. Her ashes are complete in a special sealed container with her photograph on the outside. With Alehandre (AJ) the placenta was floated in a plastic culender and allowed to drip dryfor an hour or two. After that, Scott and I removed any blood clots from the maternal surface and the placenta was wrapped in white chux towels that were changed frequently during the first 24 hours. By that time the placenta had shrunk dramatically to about one third it's original size and the cord had shriveled too. The shrunken placenta was salted once there was no danger of any transmission through to AJ (helps drying and reduces odor) During the next few days the placenta stayed in it's bag and the cord became very brittle as all the Wharton's jelly disappeared. It was fantastic to see the two arteries and the vein coursing through the clear, dry cord tissue. On day four the brittle cord broke so that was the end of the Lotus connection between AJ and his placenta. The small amount of cord stump remained until he was a week old. Scott and Rachel are waiting until AJ's umbilicus has completely sealed over with new skin before he gets to shower with his father. What a lucky baby AJ is - he could not have gotten off to a better start. He goes for walks each day in the fresh air in his Hug - a - bub and after that he usually spends the rest of the rather hot days we are having here in Sydney reclining semi-naked on a bean bag. Nights are spent tucked in with his mother and father. Oh what a beautiful feeling to be so honoured to be involved with such a special family. Jan -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. Dear Megan With Stella we took samples from the placenta for investigations and also blood samples from her mother - Neither showed anything unusual. Jan -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
FW: [ozmidwifery] Lotus birth
Hi Lynne, You absolutely startled me. I thought I was the only one!! I smell babies and know they are coming in a very similar time frame. It is an astonishing experience and a gift. Love Sally -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Lynne Staff Sent: Thursday, 10 October 2002 5:40 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Lotus birth For those births I have been there for, it was what the mother wished - I still ask them about what they want to do for the labour and the birth, their wishes for the baby. the placenta and afterwards. I have worked with some strong women giving birth to stillborn babes, and their partners too. I find it incredible how the women do what they need to do for their babe to be born, when they know that their babe is not going to open its eyes, take a breath, stretch and explore its space, once born, nuzzle at the breast. For those of you who know me, I talk about smelling the baby about 20-40 minutes before it can be seen and if I don't smell anything, the baby isn't coming out without some help - can't explain it - it just happens (and it's not liquor, blood, vaginal mucus). The last birth I was at where we knew the babe had been dead for a few days prior to the birth, I could still smell him, and it surprised me - I don't know what I was expecting in this case, but I was crouched next to the woman on the floor and that beautiful (but beyond description) smell came to me and I knew he would be there soon. I told the mother and father - she was scared to give birth to him - I think we have all seen women hugging their baby inside them, knowing that while they are inside still, no-one can get to the babe and it is still theirs, and maybe, just maybe, it will be alive..and when I told her I could smell the baby, she nodded and quietly said to me OK, my son - it's time for me to meet you - Original Message - From: Larry Megan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 9:22 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Lotus birth Thankyou Jan, I appreciate how busy you are. It sounds like an experience you will have with you forever. Lotus birth is a beautiful gift for a baby born still. We cut the cord on our third baby after a few hours and the arteries and vein were visibly sticking out the end, also amazing to see. If people can bare with me on the morbid stuff, I would like to know what the standard practice(hospital care)would be for a known still baby, in regards to the placenta? thanks again Megan. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Jan Robinson Sent: Tuesday, 8 October 2002 5:30 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Shivam Rachana Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Lotus birth On 1/10/02 10:34 AM, Larry Megan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jan wrote Rachel and Scott's baby boy, Alejandre was born through water around lunch time into the arms of both parents where he stayed until his placenta was born and gently collected (a lotus birth again, as was Stella's) Jan, can you please explain to me if Lotus birth is any different in the case of a stillbirth baby, time it takes etc? Is the palcenta kept with the baby forever? Sorry if this is a bit upfront but I am genuinely interested. thankyou Megan. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. Hello Megan I seem to be ages getting to respond to this - but for your information, Stella's placenta stayed with her in the little placenta bag her grand mother had made for it. The placenta was kept clean, wrappings changed daily. It was salted on day two and we put a few drops of lavender oil on the outside of the bag on day four. We kept Stella's skin beautiful with calendula cream that stopped it drying out. Stella was cremated in her best clothes and her placenta in it's little bag lying beside her and still connected. Her ashes are complete in a special sealed container with her photograph on the outside. With Alehandre (AJ) the placenta was floated in a plastic culender and allowed to drip dryfor an hour or two. After that, Scott and I removed any blood clots from the maternal surface and the placenta was wrapped in white chux towels that were changed frequently during the first 24 hours. By that time the placenta had shrunk dramatically to about one third it's original size and the cord had shriveled too. The shrunken placenta was salted once there was no danger of any transmission through to AJ (helps drying and reduces odor) During the next few days the placenta stayed in it's bag and the cord became very brittle as all the Wharton's jelly disappeared. It was fantastic to see the two arteries and the vein coursing through the clear, dry cord tissue. On day four the brittle cord broke so that was the end of the Lotus connection between AJ
Re: [ozmidwifery] Lotus birth
On 1/10/02 10:34 AM, Larry Megan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jan wrote Rachel and Scott's baby boy, Alejandre was born through water around lunch time into the arms of both parents where he stayed until his placenta was born and gently collected (a lotus birth again, as was Stella's) Jan, can you please explain to me if Lotus birth is any different in the case of a stillbirth baby, time it takes etc? Is the palcenta kept with the baby forever? Sorry if this is a bit upfront but I am genuinely interested. thankyou Megan. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. Hello Megan I seem to be ages getting to respond to this - but for your information, Stella's placenta stayed with her in the little placenta bag her grand mother had made for it. The placenta was kept clean, wrappings changed daily. It was salted on day two and we put a few drops of lavender oil on the outside of the bag on day four. We kept Stella's skin beautiful with calendula cream that stopped it drying out. Stella was cremated in her best clothes and her placenta in it's little bag lying beside her and still connected. Her ashes are complete in a special sealed container with her photograph on the outside. With Alehandre (AJ) the placenta was floated in a plastic culender and allowed to drip dryfor an hour or two. After that, Scott and I removed any blood clots from the maternal surface and the placenta was wrapped in white chux towels that were changed frequently during the first 24 hours. By that time the placenta had shrunk dramatically to about one third it's original size and the cord had shriveled too. The shrunken placenta was salted once there was no danger of any transmission through to AJ (helps drying and reduces odor) During the next few days the placenta stayed in it's bag and the cord became very brittle as all the Wharton's jelly disappeared. It was fantastic to see the two arteries and the vein coursing through the clear, dry cord tissue. On day four the brittle cord broke so that was the end of the Lotus connection between AJ and his placenta. The small amount of cord stump remained until he was a week old. Scott and Rachel are waiting until AJ's umbilicus has completely sealed over with new skin before he gets to shower with his father. What a lucky baby AJ is - he could not have gotten off to a better start. He goes for walks each day in the fresh air in his Hug - a - bub and after that he usually spends the rest of the rather hot days we are having here in Sydney reclining semi-naked on a bean bag. Nights are spent tucked in with his mother and father. Oh what a beautiful feeling to be so honoured to be involved with such a special family. Jan -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] Lotus birth
Love to you, Jan ... And love and warm wishes to Rachel and Scott... I met them at Katoomba and again when Nic and I came for Singing the Bones...Blessings, Vicki -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Jan Robinson Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2002 6:00 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Shivam Rachana Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Lotus birth On 1/10/02 10:34 AM, Larry Megan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jan wrote Rachel and Scott's baby boy, Alejandre was born through water around lunch time into the arms of both parents where he stayed until his placenta was born and gently collected (a lotus birth again, as was Stella's) Jan, can you please explain to me if Lotus birth is any different in the case of a stillbirth baby, time it takes etc? Is the palcenta kept with the baby forever? Sorry if this is a bit upfront but I am genuinely interested. thankyou Megan. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. Hello Megan I seem to be ages getting to respond to this - but for your information, Stella's placenta stayed with her in the little placenta bag her grand mother had made for it. The placenta was kept clean, wrappings changed daily. It was salted on day two and we put a few drops of lavender oil on the outside of the bag on day four. We kept Stella's skin beautiful with calendula cream that stopped it drying out. Stella was cremated in her best clothes and her placenta in it's little bag lying beside her and still connected. Her ashes are complete in a special sealed container with her photograph on the outside. With Alehandre (AJ) the placenta was floated in a plastic culender and allowed to drip dryfor an hour or two. After that, Scott and I removed any blood clots from the maternal surface and the placenta was wrapped in white chux towels that were changed frequently during the first 24 hours. By that time the placenta had shrunk dramatically to about one third it's original size and the cord had shriveled too. The shrunken placenta was salted once there was no danger of any transmission through to AJ (helps drying and reduces odor) During the next few days the placenta stayed in it's bag and the cord became very brittle as all the Wharton's jelly disappeared. It was fantastic to see the two arteries and the vein coursing through the clear, dry cord tissue. On day four the brittle cord broke so that was the end of the Lotus connection between AJ and his placenta. The small amount of cord stump remained until he was a week old. Scott and Rachel are waiting until AJ's umbilicus has completely sealed over with new skin before he gets to shower with his father. What a lucky baby AJ is - he could not have gotten off to a better start. He goes for walks each day in the fresh air in his Hug - a - bub and after that he usually spends the rest of the rather hot days we are having here in Sydney reclining semi-naked on a bean bag. Nights are spent tucked in with his mother and father. Oh what a beautiful feeling to be so honoured to be involved with such a special family. Jan -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] Lotus birth
Jan wrote Rachel and Scott's baby boy, Alejandre was born through water around lunch time into the arms of both parents where he stayed until his placenta was born and gently collected (a lotus birth again, as was Stella's) Jan, can you please explain to me if Lotus birth is any different in the case of a stillbirth baby, time it takes etc? Is the palcenta kept with the baby forever? Sorry if this is a bit upfront but I am genuinely interested. thankyou Megan. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
