if you need to call back m68k code or palmos api its a bit more difficult but
still, as soon as you will find out how to do it for one thing then you will
have no big problems in future
and if you want to convert whole application to arm code then good luck, you
will need it :) its possible
Hi friends,
I want to develop a project(game) using ARM Native calls. I have never worked
on ARM native calls. But I have experience to develop appplications using 68k
API. I want to know as of how much approximate TIME would be require to learn
this.
It would be appreciable if you can
Hi freinds,
I wanted to know about how to open the .sbin file and its how to use it. I have
got some links but it seems access has removed the images from their website.
I have read that these files are linked into the output PRC file using the
filename to derive the type and ID of the
Hi all:
I want to debug ARM side cod ein simulator or emulator.
How can I do?
Can anyone tell me?
Thanks.
2008-04-17
Vivian Chen
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On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 11:49 PM, Vivian Chen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi all:
I want to debug ARM side cod ein simulator or emulator.
How can I do?
You don't. The Palm OS simulator will execute x86 code out of DLLs
for its PNOs, but it doesn't have an ARM instruction set emulator
Oh, Really?Ok, I see, thanks.
Can I have another question?
When I call PceNativeCall(), it always says Unhandled Exception in thread
STRT.
What does it mean?
2008-04-17
Vivian Chen
发件人： Ben Combee
发送时间： 2008-04-17 15:01:29
收件人： Palm Developer Forum
抄送：
主题： Re: How to debug ARM
. The parameters have to be different here than on the device
where it's used to call ARM machine code. If you don't use different
glue code around PceNativeCall, it will crash like you see on x86.
See the explanation at
http://www.access-company.com/developers/documents/docs/palmos/PalmOSCompanion
I don't quite understand. Can you explain more clearly?
2008-04-17
Vivian Chen
发件人： Ben Combee
发送时间： 2008-04-17 15:33:36
收件人： Palm Developer Forum
抄送：
主题： Re: How to debug ARM in simulator
2008/4/17 Vivian Chen [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Oh, Really?Ok, I see, thanks.
Can I have
Palm runs on ARM processor but most applications are in M68k code so
Palm runs simulator for M68k code but system is compiled in native ARM code.
Palm simulator dos this similarly: it runs on x86 processor so PalmOS is
compiled in native x86 code and it has simulator for M68K code. It
acnnot run
hi,
I'm not talking about desktop application. My Palm app
needs to convert to ARM to work on some ARM devices.
What is the procedure?
cathy.
--- Jeff Loucks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Why are you considering this? If it is for
performance, then the CPU
intensive functions can be converted
I agree. FYI, Arm optimization in probably unnecessary. Maybe even useless.
Dave, you email signature's URL is incorrect...
On 10/18/07, Dave Carrigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Oct 18, 2007, at 9:09 AM, babbu cathy wrote:
I'm not talking about desktop application.
I can't see anything
On Oct 18, 2007, at 9:09 AM, babbu cathy wrote:
I'm not talking about desktop application.
I can't see anything in Jeff's reply that suggests that you were.
My Palm app
needs to convert to ARM to work on some ARM devices.
What is the procedure?
Re-read and understand Jeff's reply, which
Cathy,
Can you give us an example of the kind of application you would like
to convert from 68K to ARM, and why you believe it is necessary? We
may be able to suggest an approach if we knew what it was you were
trying to accomplish.
Thanks,
jeff
On 10/18/07, Donald C. Kirker [EMAIL PROTECTED
babbu cathy wrote:
hi everyone,
can anyone please explain or give me ideas how can i
convert my 68k application to ARM based?
cathy.
Why delete messages? Unlimited storage is just a click away. Go to
http://help.yahoo.com/l/in/yahoo/mail/yahoomail/tools/tools-08.html
Unless you
hi everyone,
can anyone please explain or give me ideas how can i
convert my 68k application to ARM based?
cathy.
Why delete messages? Unlimited storage is just a click away. Go to
http://help.yahoo.com/l/in/yahoo/mail/yahoomail/tools/tools-08.html
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Why are you considering this? If it is for performance, then the CPU
intensive functions can be converted to ARMlets, which are ARM native
code fragments called from your 68K app. Otherwise, since most of your
app is usually system calls which are performed in native ARM, there
are few good
I would like to know details about the alignment issues when passing
data between ARM and 68k .
I have a structure defined in ARM code
A
{
int k;
int j;
char temp[200];
}
Can I do the following in the ARM code:
{
A *a = new A();
68KFunction(a-temp
Alignment issues only come up when going from 68K to ARM. The ARM is more
picky than the 68K. So if you go from ARM to 68K, you're fine.
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Alexander R. Pruss wrote:
Alignment issues only come up when going from 68K to ARM. The ARM is more
picky than the 68K. So if you go from ARM to 68K, you're fine.
What about 68K to ARM. If we use new operator and create a char array
would that be a problem when passed to ARM? I believe
Multibyte data types suffer both alignment and byte order issues. ARM is
little endian, while 68K is big endian.
Be aware that passing a pointer between ARM and 68K constitutes a multibyte
data type. While the alignment of the pointer target may be fine, the
alignment and byte order
Hello.
Thank you guys. pnoJpegLib looks great, and should be possible to change it
to work in my way.
I have studied its sources a bit, and now i'm at this point:
-i have to run VFS functions from ARM code, but dont know how to do this. I
havent found any examples on the NET.
Can you provide me
you will find lot of information about it in pno-forum
and i think pnojpeglib already uses palm api from arm code so you can see how it
is done there, with vfs it should be similar...i hope
Marcin wrote:
Hello.
Thank you guys. pnoJpegLib looks great, and should be possible to change
-i have to run VFS functions from ARM code, but dont know how to do this.
To access any Palm API from PNO, you need to add their corresponding Wrapper
funtions and prototypes in files : PACEInterface.h PACEInterface.cpp
You can contact me in priv to get the same files.
Regards,
Sagar Mody
application to run on both pre-ARM
devices and on ARM devices you will need to be able to use
both your library version (68k and pno) in your application.
A 68k code can run in both cases but a pno code will only work on ARM
devices
If you do come up with some thing interesting in pno, I would like
must admit, that it's a great lib, but now i have to make the
decompression much faster.
My question is : is there a jpeg decompression library for ARM processors
allowing me decompress file on the fly (like jdpalm do)
If no (but i hope there is), i think i will have to rewrite jdpalm from 68k
Marcin wrote:
If no (but i hope there is), i think i will have to rewrite jdpalm from 68k
to PNO, bu i have no idea how to do this (i have a lot of time, and willing
to learn if it's necessary :)
Grab the sources of pnoJpeg library and investigate. Shall be a good start
(plus, you could
there is also pnojpeglib - but as far as i know it needs arm device and won't
run on m68k at all. so in worst case you can do support for both (its not so
difficult)
but it won't save you some tweaking, because pnojpeglib by default doesn't
support decoding of image line by line, its done
hi,
have you tested 'Debug Prefs'?
http://www.palmoswerks.com/stories/storyReader$25
Sincerely,
/John - The head developer of SrcEdit
http://srcedit.brainsware.org
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Hi,
Is it possible to turn on some kind of trace of an arm application and get this trace from
some program in the desktop computer? I'm getting some annoying errors here and my debug
statements are not enough.
thanks for your thoughts,
guich
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/*** HERE IS MY PROGRAM FOR PalmOS 5 (Tungsten T5)
armfn.bin: armfn.o
arm-palmos-objcopy -O binary armfn.o armfn.bin
armfn.o:armfn.c
arm-palmos-gcc -DDEBUG=0 -O2 -Wall -fPIC -ffixed-r9 -c armfn.c
TO INCREASE STACK SIZE**OF M68K APPLICATION FROM ARM ?***/
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-- Eng. Hasan A.HadiAndalus Software Development
Hi folks,
I'm just wondring are there a How-to down-loadable from somewhere describing
what stpes should be taken (what changes needed to the makefile and sources) to
move from 68k to ARM developing.
Sincerely,
/John
--
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[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://srcedit.brainsware.org
irc
On 11/10/06, John Wilund [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi folks,
I'm just wondring are there a How-to down-loadable from somewhere
describing what stpes should be taken (what changes needed to
the makefile and sources) to move from 68k to ARM developing.
unfortunately, there isn't any easy how
;
StrCopy( text, bob ); // put some text into it
ud-in = text;
Now I want to pass that ud as the userData parameter (second parameter), and
call PceNativeCall (which calls the ARM code I've written that takes this
userData). By this time I've successfully gotten the ARM code I've written
= MemPtrNew( 20 );
userData *ud = new userData;
StrCopy( text, bob ); // put some text into it
ud-in = text;
Now I want to pass that ud as the userData parameter (second parameter), and
call PceNativeCall (which calls the ARM code I've written that takes this
userData). By this time I've
allocated.Effectively I've done this:
char *text = MemPtrNew( 20 );userData *ud = new userData;StrCopy( text, bob );// put some text into itud-in = text;Now I want to pass that ud as the userData parameter (second parameter), and call PceNativeCall (which calls the ARM code I've written that takes
Hi,
Are there PPST for native arm apps? The currently available one seems to be just for 68k
applications.
thanks
guich
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Can I ask anybody for process description how to install successfully
cygwin for arm-palmos development?
Thanks,
Hynek
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On 8/8/06, Hynek Sladky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Can I ask anybody for process description how to install successfully
cygwin for arm-palmos development?
www.cygwin.com
download setup.exe and run it. follow the basic prompt and select
download from internet. ensure that you have selected
Aaron Ardiri napsal(a):
http://prc-tools.sourceforge.net/install/cygwin.html
Cygwin doesn't contain prc-tools in setup anymore? At least I didn't
found it in Devel category...
I downloaded prc-tools and arm-prc-tools from sf.net and copied it to
cygwin directory /usr (as it is packed
I am sorry, I was confused by the same URL for
* prc-tools doc and prc-tools cygwin install URL:
http://prc-tools.sourceforge.net/install
Hynek Sladky napsal(a):
Cygwin doesn't contain prc-tools in setup anymore? At least I didn't
found it in Devel category...
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let me repeat:
if you have problems with the above instructions; try buying a
tool set, like codewarrior.
everything you need is in the emails and on the site i provided.
if you cannot figure it out - a cygwin based solution isn't for you.
you can still buy codewarrior 9.3 from metrowerks. do
Again but complete:
I am sorry, I was confused by the same URL for prc-tools doc
(http://prc-tools.sourceforge.net/install) and prc-tools cygwin install
URL (http://prc-tools.sourceforge.net/install) so I looked only into the
doc page and didn't add the server... :-(
It works now! I must
On 8/7/06, Hynek Sladky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I want to start with ARM native functions.
I added arm-prc-tools to my cygwin installation and now I try to compile
project.
make calls bin\arm-palmos-gcc.exe which calls
lib\gcc-lib\arm-palmos\3.3.1\cc1.exe and bin\as.exe
as.exe prints many error
No, I run make.exe from command line.
Hynek
Aaron Ardiri napsal(a):
you are typing make under a cygwin prompt i assume?
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On 8/7/06, Hynek Sladky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
No, I run make.exe from command line.
BINGO.
cygwin is a shell environment - you need to be within that shell in order
to use anything that cygwin has to offer. all the paths to the compiler are
within cygwin, not the msdos command line.
try
The result is same as from win's prompt... many errors.
The only thing that helps is when I copy arm-palmos\bin\as.exe to bin\as.exe
I found now that there seems to be other more problem:
after calling arm-palmos-gcc -nostartfiles -o name name.o it runs
lib\gcc-lib\arm-palmos\3.3.1\collect2.exe
I have got this code that uses asembly language... the code is below.. i'm not
sure, i think it was posted here before the code:
asm
{
mov r1, r9
str r1, [ptrR9]
mov r1, r10
str r1, [ptrR10]
}
my problem is i
Ok, this is going to sound like a dumb question, and I am sure that I will get
a million responses saying look it up yourself! or Google it! (which I
have), but I am going to ask anyway.
Is it possible to use arm-palmos-gcc instead of m68k-palmos-gcc to make a 100%
pure arm application?
I
On 6/21/06, Donald C. Kirker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I have read and people have said that you need to have an m68k loader,
and the reast could be ARM code, but Aaron Ardiri says otherwise
(from http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_story.asp?ID=6487):
Nope, the current version of OS 5 can't do
Thanks Aaron!
you are referring to a webpage thats very old :)
While it may be old, it is still useful (and suggesting that there are much
better things).
I actually have looked at Mobile Streams SDK, and now that you mention it, I do
recall seeing their SDK and examples (DOH! I feel like an
I just want to know if it is possible to have two arm thread running at the
same time?:)
Thanks...
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Does palmos debugger support arm code? I want to debug my code early in
smallrom, however it seems that pos debugger is m68k thing. The protocol does
not mention arm support at all.
PS: Is there any NDA-based or any other membersip that grants access to
smallrom bootloader sources
Roger, I cannot figure out these link errors with an ARM build with
Codewarrior
Link Error : Undefined : virtual table for abi::__class_type_info
Link Error : Undefined : virtual table for abi::__si_class_type_info
Link Error : Undefined : virtual table for abi::__vmi_class_type_info
Link
, they were never in any of the CW tools for Palm
OS.
Basically, you're trying to do C++ stuff that CW just doesn't support
in PNOs. Don't do that.
On 4/14/06, Drew Haninger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Roger, I cannot figure out these link errors with an ARM build with
Codewarrior
Link Error
Codewarrior or Peal for ARM -- I need to know what type of
UI element versamail uses
The bottom three are C++ support functions needed for handling global
objects and exceptions. These are NOT provided by the C++ runtime in
the PNO tools, although you might be able to get them if you find a
copy
Drew Haninger writes:
I'm now trying the peal approach, I wonder if it will also have issues with
some c++ support like virtual functions ?
I think virtual functions and static constructors work,
but exceptions likely won't.
--
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is it possible to open a shared library in PNO?
i'm trying to open the library and CW said SysLibFind undefined.
thanks
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At 03:15 AM 1/21/2006, you wrote:
Subject: ARM code
From: Igor Krozov [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 22:52:58 +0200
Does using of ARM code make significant perfomance winning in
ADPCM encoding, for
example, on Treo 600 and treo 650 ?
It depends.
If your code mostly calls
Does using of ARM code make significant perfomance winning in ADPCM encoding,
for
example, on Treo 600 and treo 650 ?
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Igor mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Nevermind. I'm an idiot...I found it. :)
David
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Hi,
Sorry for being unclear.
I meant that the file gets deleted whenever it finds the ARM library on an
OS4 device in order to save RAM. You could prompt the user beforehand
Best regards
Tam Hanna
Tamoggemon Software
http://www.tamoggemon.com
http://tamspalm.tamoggemon.com
Subject: Re
Doug Gordon wrote:
Maybe the solution is to install both libraries on all devices during my installation procedure,
and my app will just look for pnoJpegLib on PalmOS V5 and later. Yes, I would be taking up some
extra memory with a library that is not used, but it is not that much
compared
Tam Hanna wrote:
Hi,
please forgive me if I sound cheeky-but I believe that there is a really
simple cure for this problem.
Why not include a routine into your app that simply deletes the ARM JPEG
library whenever it finds it on the device. You could even integrate a
warning alert resource
Hi,
please forgive me if I sound cheeky-but I believe that there is a really
simple cure for this problem.
Why not include a routine into your app that simply deletes the ARM JPEG
library whenever it finds it on the device. You could even integrate a
warning alert resource that asks the user
Doug Gordon wrote:
Henk wrote:
I know that pnoJpegLib has its support compiled for
the ARM processor family, but does it also have the
68K code in it so that it will work on an old non-ARM
device?
There is a 68k Jpeg lib as well. Just use both and
when you are on a OS 5 (ARM) device
Doug Gordon wrote:
I know that pnoJpegLib has its support compiled for the ARM processor family,
but does it also have the 68K code in it so that it will work on an old non-ARM
device? I know that some apps work on both platforms, but am not sure about
this library.
There is a 68k Jpeg
Henk wrote:
I know that pnoJpegLib has its support compiled for
the ARM processor family, but does it also have the
68K code in it so that it will work on an old non-ARM
device?
There is a 68k Jpeg lib as well. Just use both and
when you are on a OS 5 (ARM) device, try first to
open
I know that pnoJpegLib has its support compiled for the ARM processor family,
but does it also have the 68K code in it so that it will work on an old non-ARM
device? I know that some apps work on both platforms, but am not sure about
this library.
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Hey,
Just curious what peoples experiences are in converting apps to ARM.
Which ARM compiler do most people use? What type of gains have people
realisticly seen? I had one of my developers try but he was having
problems we the new and deletes, he said it was not supported.
I am kind
Benoit Cerrina wrote:
Hi David,
I am more or less in the same situation as you, if you do manage to
compile your app for arm, can you send the list (or just me) a
description of the hoops you had to jump through,
I always postponed doing it but some parts of my apps could really benefit
Scott Erickson wrote:
forgot to say i am using PODS, not codewarrior.
For a straight forward pnolet without globals and an object size below
64k made with prc-tools (should be similar to PODS):
* put your arm code in one c file, first function must be
UInt32 NativeFunction(const void
Anyone know a good link that will explain the steps for compilling ARM code
and putting it in a 68K project? The SDK API is pretty light on the
subject.
--
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Software Engineer, FB-4, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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forgot to say i am using PODS, not codewarrior.
--
Scott Erickson
Software Engineer, FB-4, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Scott Erickson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Anyone know a good link that will explain the steps for compilling ARM
code and putting it in a 68K
Hi,
Is there a MSL lib for ARM ?
I tried the Tapwave one but i have the following error :
Link Error : Undefined : __upper_mapC
Referenced from GUI::Dialog::handleKeyDown(unsigned short, int, int) in
dialog.cpp
Any idea how to fix this ?
Thanks a lot
Chris
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Hi,
Are there any Palm OS 5 ARM devices with 8bpp?
thanks
guich
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At 08:02 PM 8/30/2005, you wrote:
Hi,
Are there any Palm OS 5 ARM devices with 8bpp?
Not that I've seen. The only 8-bit-only devices were the IIIc, the CLIE
PEG-500C, and the CLIE PEG-710C (which was 16-bit after being updated to OS
4.1). There have been some devices with 12-bit screens
Hi David,
I am more or less in the same situation as you, if you do manage to
compile your app for arm, can you send the list (or just me) a
description of the hoops you had to jump through,
I always postponed doing it but some parts of my apps could really benefit.
best regards
Benoit
David
If you like to stay with gcc, you should look out for peal. It will
allow you to spread your ARM-code over several 64k-resources (which
isn't complicated at all :-). But also will give you global vars in your
pnolet.
1: no, not really
2: no, sectioning isn't necessary. pnolet can be very
Henk Jonas wrote:
If you like to stay with gcc, you should look out for peal. It will
allow you to spread your ARM-code over several 64k-resources (which
isn't complicated at all :-). But also will give you global vars in your
pnolet.
Aha! Peal looks very useful, I think I'll give it a try
Hi again, folks,
So, I noticed that prc-tools comes with an arm-palmos compiler as well
as the expected m68k-palmos. I have a large multi-section C++ 68k
application, and I'd really like to just compile the whole thing into
ARM and just have a 68k stub that checks to see if the platform
Hi,
Please suggest me the right way to resolve the following issues.
1. How to create a dll project in PODS 6 (ARM)
2. Steps for porting the shared library source of 64k in to PODS 6.
Thanks Regards
Ritu Chawla.
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So, as I've learned more about PODS, and prc-tools I have become quite
dismayed. We have a visualization library for detail in context
viewing of GIS data. We have successfully deployed this on 300+MHz
ARM machines in the past, running various PocketPC incarnations. It
seems to me
Mark,
Native ARM applications are possible, but few developers go that route.
For example, I am working on a similar application, a GIS map viewer,
and it took me about a month to recompile my speed-critical code for the
ARM. I only call five ARM functions, and the rest of my app is still
Mark Tigges wrote:
So, as I've learned more about PODS, and prc-tools I have become quite
dismayed. We have a visualization library for detail in context
viewing of GIS data. We have successfully deployed this on 300+MHz
ARM machines in the past, running various PocketPC incarnations
On Wed, Jun 08, 2005 at 03:19:46PM -0500, Logan Shaw wrote:
Mark Tigges wrote:
So, as I've learned more about PODS, and prc-tools I have become quite
dismayed. We have a visualization library for detail in context
viewing of GIS data. We have successfully deployed this on 300+MHz
ARM
4. Debugging. It's not impossible, but it is a little harder.
You can't run an ARM PNO on any Simulator or Emulator, so you'll
have to debug against real hardware, or build an x86 DLL version
of your PNO and debug that on the Simulator on the PC.
Surprise: the Palm OS Cobalt
The whole m68k/PACE/PNO thing seems to be a giant kludge. I can
understand PACE so that legacy apps from previous PalmOS generations
still work, but forcing ALL new programs to be m68k too? Strange to
me.
OS 5 was originally seen as a stopgap OS that let existing programs work on
ARM
Hi Mark,
How does one build PalmOS5 ARM apps. It can't be that the only way is
to build m68k apps using prc-tools and then execute them on-device
using PACE.
There is an ARM tool-chain on PalmSource, iirc. At the end you get some
arm-palmos-xxx.exe commands, similar to the m68k-palmos
On Fri, Jun 03, 2005 at 10:07:19AM +0200, Henk Jonas wrote:
How does one build PalmOS5 ARM apps. It can't be that the only way is
to build m68k apps using prc-tools and then execute them on-device
using PACE.
There is an ARM tool-chain on PalmSource, iirc. At the end you get some
arm
On Fri, Jun 03, 2005 at 08:19:33AM -0700, Mark Tigges wrote:
On Fri, Jun 03, 2005 at 10:07:19AM +0200, Henk Jonas wrote:
How does one build PalmOS5 ARM apps. It can't be that the only way is
to build m68k apps using prc-tools and then execute them on-device
using PACE
How does one build PalmOS5 ARM apps. It can't be that the only way is
to build m68k apps using prc-tools and then execute them on-device
using PACE.
There is an ARM tool-chain on PalmSource, iirc. At the end you get some
arm-palmos-xxx.exe commands, similar to the m68k-palmos-xxx.exe
On Fri, Jun 03, 2005 at 09:20:05AM -0700, David Fedor wrote:
How does one build PalmOS5 ARM apps. It can't be that the only way is
to build m68k apps using prc-tools and then execute them on-device
using PACE.
There is an ARM tool-chain on PalmSource, iirc. At the end you get some
PODS does indeed have the tools to do native ARM coding. Choose New
Project and select Managed Make 68K PNO C/C++ Project, then go through
the wizard choosing Simple Application on the 3rd screen. It is all set
up for you with NativeCallTestApp.c being the 68k app wrapper which does
This must be an oft asked question, but I couldn't find it in the
knowledge base.
How does one build PalmOS5 ARM apps. It can't be that the only way is
to build m68k apps using prc-tools and then execute them on-device
using PACE.
I have downloaded the PODS and built the examples, and started
Just grab binutils and gcc and compile them with target arm-elf.
Then use peal to post-process the object files. Google is your friend.
Florent
On 6 mai 05, at 18:30, BrownB wrote:
Thank you Ben, but I'm using PRC-Tools...any other suggestion?
BrownB
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Hi,
Does MetroWerks CodeWarrior v8 support ARMlets? Does anybody know?
[]'s,
Leandro Jekimim Goulart
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You can link a PACE Native Object into your application using V8, but only V9
includes the ARM compiler and linker needed to make the PNO. You also need V9
to debug to OS 5 hardware.
-Original Message-
From: Leandro Jekimim Goulart [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subj: CodeWarrior 8 and ARM
Date
Hi Ben,
On Fri, 06 May 2005 16:30:26 +, BrownB wrote:
Thank you Ben, but I'm using PRC-Tools...any other suggestion? BrownB
if you are in need of some kind like MathLib for Arm, I could send you my
prc-tools M68k ARM port of MathLib. I am not sure if Rick Huebner
already put my latest ARM
Hello, I'm lloking for an ARM compiler to build a PNO object. I'm moving there
some math code which is a bit too heavy for my realtime application. Months ago
I tried this, but the ARM compilers of that time wasn't able to manage
multiplications and divisions.
Does anyone know if there's
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