[PAYCO] Parents' Solidarity to Ongoing Education Crisis

[Chargein Mabaso]

Comrades,

There is need for all parents, educators and academics  to stand up and be
united to defend the education and future of our children and future
generations to come  in the ongoing education crisis affecting the
education of the African child. The time is now or never! Enough is enough!
There is a great need for parents to  intervene in the stalemate at the
institutions of higher learning in our country. All parents should show
solidarity with the ongoing student struggles. Students are in this
struggle for us as parents because  they know their parents cannot afford
another fee increase. Currently, parents cannot afford to pay fees now, let
alone an increase no matter is 1% or below 8%. Some of the parents are
still paying the student debts they incurred in thier days in those
universities. The student debt is now generational. Students are calling
for 0% fees for their parents, not just o% fee increase. They are calling
for their parents' university debt to go too. That is, free education the
current students and their parents were promised by those in power.

Comrades, the ongoing #FeesMustFall Campaign unfolding in our institutions
is the continuation of the student struggles we waged during our time as
students at the same institutions of higher learning as early as in the
1980s up to the late 1990s, up to today fighting for the transformation and
decolonisation of the same universities together with some of the current
arrogant government officials, university authorities and business leaders,
for example, the Minisrter of Higher Education, Blade Ndzimande and Wits
Vice-Chancellor, Prof Habib, Zuma's spokesperson, Bongani Ngqulunga and
many more who were all with us in the trenches at the University of Durban.
They know what what students are talking about. they were at the forefront
of students' struggles at  UND and UDW in those days. Today, they have
crossed the floor to the enemy camp and joined the white capital. Let's
prick their conscience and remind them about their promise to the African
child. The current students' struggle is being hijacked by other forces
because they did not keep their promises to students after joniing the
governing structures. The fact that the current students' struggles face
the danger of being hijacked, just like the whole Liberation Movement was
been hijacked in 1955, does not change the fact that today's students'
struggles are legitimate and just.  All legitimate and just
struggles throughout the world are being hijacked every day .There is
nothing new to the current  "#FeesMustFall" Campaign. But, still, the wheel
of revolution keeps on turning and will continue to turn for generations to
come.

Comrades in those institutions, government and business circles all know
the "#FeesMustFall" Campaign is not a new struggle. It is the continuation
of the struggle they started at the universities while they were still
students and lecturers there. It is a fight to achieve what the  Freedom
Charter promised the African nation  that *'The doors of  learning shall be
opened to all.' * What happened to their Freedom Charter they advocated so
eloquently at those universities during their student days? They must
answer these questions. They must remember:The wheel of revolution is
turning and will continue to turn, with or without them. They are now
parents and leaders. They have a choice. They can either join other parents
and defend the future of the African children or stand on their way and
oppose them. Other African leaders before them made their choice in the
past. They chose to be either African martyrs or stooges of the enemies of
the African people. It is their choice even now.


Comrades, parents  are coming together tomorrow at 08:00 in Soweto
University of Johannesburg (UJ) to  picket to show solidarity to the
ongoing students' "#FeesMustFall" Campaign.
Let's support their call. Those who want to join or want to ask their
parents to join the picketing, please contact  Cleopatra at 0727394122 for
more details. We are not the organisers of this picketing. We do not knoow
the details yet. We just appreciate the courage and initiative of the
parents in Soweto. Aluta Continua! Viva comrade Cleopatra and other
parents! Africa will remember you!

Let's do the same in all universities closure to where we live. We cannot
continue folding our arms as parents while the future of our children and
generations to come is at stake; while our children are under attack; while
our children exposed to many dangers now that they kicked out the
universities parents sent their children to them study safely in good hands
of other parents running those institutions. As parents we sent those
students at those institutions to study, not to fight for us, as parents.
Let's take over our load from them and fight for free education of our
children as parents while students remain in classes. I am also referring
to ANC General Secretary, Gwede Mantashe, Minister Blade Ndzimande, Zuma'

Re: [PAYCO]

[Chargein Mabaso]

Comrade Nkrumah

Meeting is where issues are discussed and resolved.

The point still stands. There are two PAC NEC structures by default as we
speak. we cannot deny that. They are product of PAC "conference"  whether
the status of those conferences is debatable, or not. That is the reason
parliament through IEC accepted Mphahlele as the PAC President by default.
Parliament later recognized Mphethi and later Mbinda as PAC President based
on court rulings. Whether such decisions were right or wrong is another
issue all together. Courts give structures legality, not legitimate. There
is difference legality and legitimacy. It is only conferences / congresses
that give legitimacy to party structures elected constitutionally (in line
with the PAC Constitution).

The top-down approach is different from the approach I proposed. It works
outside the PAC Constitution, not in line with the PAC Constitution. My
proposal is the three structures should be engaged to get their buy-in to
convene congress jointly. If Mbinda's faction pulls out of the talks but
all other PAC structures (including its component structures eg, APLAMVA,
PAYCO and PASMA) agree to  continue with the talks and convening of the PAC
Special Conference, the conference can continue. Majority rules even in
political parties. PAC belongs to all PAC members, not to Mbinda faction
only. PAC cannot be left to the mercy of one individual or one faction /
group.

On the issue of attending ongoing unity conferences or meetings at
provincial and regional levels, I cannot attend them. There is no PAM
decision mandated me to attend such meetings. As a principled, loyal PAM
member  I can only attend meetings outside of PAM if I am mandated to do so
by PAM to represent it in those conferences / meetings, not myself.
Currently, there are PAM members mandated to attend unity talks on behalf
of PAM, not me. PAM made the decision consciously.

My input in this payco group to unity talks' approaches is personal. It is
not the official PAM position. it is just an advice to comrades to look at
a big picture when dealing with the unity talks. I have the right to do so
especially that I am not in the PAM NEC /PEC/REC/BEC at the moment. I just
know that PAM has no precondition to unity talks or attendance of unity
meetings / conferences at the moment.

Izwe Lethu!





On 14 September 2016 at 18:01, Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi 
wrote:

> Cde Chargein
>
> Best we meet and discuss these approaches, some parts of your arguments
> hold other have their own defects and self contradictory. And, no court
> ruled in favour of Mbinda-Moloto as legitimate national leadership of PAC,
> the same applies to the parallel Letlapa's NEC. The latest judgement refers
> Mbinda-Moloto NEC as a line of communication for or on IEC related matters,
> elections had passed consequently their elections role has lapsed.
>
> If both parallel NECs are illegitimate as per PAC Constitution then an
> illegitimate structure can't be entrusted pursue legitimate constitutional
> roles.
>
> If Mbinda-Moloto NECs and Letlapa's NEC reject a reconciliatory approach
> of a Joint Committee then what? This  once again becomes an issue for PAC
> members to explore sustainable alternative paths to forge principled unity.
> Remember what you are proposing was tried and done by Unity Coordinating
> Committee led by Joe Thloloe, Dinners and other party Veterans the same
> unity process is at suspense as we speak because Mbinda-Moloto leadership
> faction rejected the same unity approach you proposing. While PAM
> delegation and Letlapa's NEC leadership faction accepted the unity call.
>
> Lastly let's not raise leadership factions to be demigods to arrest and
> frustrate the unity of PAC with impunity.
>
> Party Membership must close ranks with party Veterans and pursue the
> programme to forge principled unity of the PAC;, PAM and any leadership
> faction which embraces this call of principled party Unity must also close
> ranks and march ahead.
>
> Shango lashu
>
> Nkrumah
>
> On 14 Sep 2016 17:30, "Chargein Mabaso"  wrote:
>
>> The problem is: How do you dissolve the two contested PAC NEC structures
>> not in a conference / congress, the highest decision-making bodies of the
>> Party, as per the PAC Constitution? How do you convene the properly
>> constituted PAC National Conference / Congress in line with the PAC
>> Constitution? Which clause (s) in the PAC Constitution will be followed to
>> establish the new structure constitutionally and also have the powers to
>> convene the PAC National Conference or Congress in line with the PAC
>> Constitution? According to the PAC Constitution, it is only the PAC NEC has
>> powers to convene the PAC National Conference / Congress, not other
>> str

Re: [PAYCO]

[Chargein Mabaso]

The problem is: How do you dissolve the two contested PAC NEC structures
not in a conference / congress, the highest decision-making bodies of the
Party, as per the PAC Constitution? How do you convene the properly
constituted PAC National Conference / Congress in line with the PAC
Constitution? Which clause (s) in the PAC Constitution will be followed to
establish the new structure constitutionally and also have the powers to
convene the PAC National Conference or Congress in line with the PAC
Constitution? According to the PAC Constitution, it is only the PAC NEC has
powers to convene the PAC National Conference / Congress, not other
structure?(Refer to the PAC Constitution). All PAC activities are only
guided by the PAC Basic Documents, nothing more, nothing less. Hence, the
need to get the buy-in from the existing NEC structures as constitutionally
recognized entities elected in a PAC "Conferences" because they constitute
PAC National leadership even by default. I used "Conferences" to emphasize
the fact that that is so even if their status is debatable within the PAC.
Remember, the decisions of courts of laws are not in line with and outside
the PAC Constitution. They cannot be reached in violation of the PAC
Constitution and then be binding to PAC members. Mbinda-led NEC may be
legally recognised as PAC NEC but may at the same time unconstitutional and
illlegimate within the PAC because it was elected in violation of the PAC
Constitution. The same may apply to Mphahlele-led NEC. It is only a
properly constituted PAC Conference / Conference can make such a decision,
not courts or law or some kangaroo courts in some corners. Hence, the need
to convene a properly constituted PAC Conference / Congress jointly
organised by, at least, the two PAC NECs.

Comrade, let's remember: two wrongs do not make a right. We cannot correct
the wrongs of others through our own wrong ways. The right way to run PAC
affairs is to do everything in line with the PAC Basic Documents,
especially the Constitution in this case. Any decisions (resolutions) taken
outside the PAC national conferences / congresses are not PAC decisions
(resolutions). Party decisions affecting branches are taken at branch
meetings or AGMs, those affecting regional  or provincial structures are
taken at Regional or provincial conferences / congresses and also those
affecting national structures are taken at national conferences /
congresses as per the PAC Constitution as we know it. Any decisions taken
not in line with the PAC Constitution are not PAC decisions / resolutions.

This simply means the bottom-up approach will be in violation of the PAC
Constitution and as such will be unconstitutional. That is the reason I
said there is no logic in this approach as far as PAC processes and
constitution are concerned. Its result will not be different from the
Top-down approach. Both approaches are recipes for a breakaway from the PAC
because their outcomes will not be PAC structures as per the PAC
Constitution.The current leadership will be justify to expel the organisers
of those dubious conferences / congresses as rebels who are destined to
damage the image of PAC.  Both approaches (Bottom-up / Top-dpwn) will reach
political cul-del-sac very soon. Their results will suffer from illegality,
unconstitutionality and illegitimacy.

I rest my case.

Izwe Lethu!





On 14 September 2016 at 13:19, Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi 
wrote:

> Comrade Chargein
>
> The two approaches are contradictory both can unfold simultaneously
> leading to a PAC UNITY National Conference, that is, Bottom-up and
> Dissolution of parallel NEC's the formation of a Joint Committee then PAC
> National Unity Conference.
>
> Shango lashu
> Nkrumah
>
> On 14 Sep 2016 09:40, "Chargein Mabaso"  wrote:
>
>> Comrade Nkrumah
>>
>> Who calls the conference may be a major obstacle to my proposal but it
>> can be overcome through collective effort. The feasible solution is to
>> convene the special conference or congress jointly and the conference /
>> congress to be co-chared by the joint  / collective leadership of the three
>> NECs (two PAC NECS and PAM NEC). That is, the two PAC NECs and PAM NEC  to
>> come together and convene the conference / congress jointly. That is not
>> something new. After the PAC unbanning, the PAC Central Committee from
>> exile under the leadership of PAC Chairman Johnson Mlambo and PAM NEC
>> (representing PAC in the hone front) under the leadership of President
>> Clarence Makwetu convened the 2nd PAC Congress jointly to elect the
>> collective PAC leadership. Comrade Johnson Mlambo and other former PAC
>> leaders can advised the joint committee how to convene conference /
>> congress jointly from their experience. The joint committee may be composed
>> of two representives from two PAC factions

Re: [PAYCO]

[Chargein Mabaso]

Comrade Nkrumah

Who calls the conference may be a major obstacle to my proposal but it can
be overcome through collective effort. The feasible solution is to convene
the special conference or congress jointly and the conference / congress to
be co-chared by the joint  / collective leadership of the three NECs (two
PAC NECS and PAM NEC). That is, the two PAC NECs and PAM NEC  to come
together and convene the conference / congress jointly. That is not
something new. After the PAC unbanning, the PAC Central Committee from
exile under the leadership of PAC Chairman Johnson Mlambo and PAM NEC
(representing PAC in the hone front) under the leadership of President
Clarence Makwetu convened the 2nd PAC Congress jointly to elect the
collective PAC leadership. Comrade Johnson Mlambo and other former PAC
leaders can advised the joint committee how to convene conference /
congress jointly from their experience. The joint committee may be composed
of two representives from two PAC factions and PAM e,g, presidents and
secretary=-generals of the three factions. Any arrangement can be decided
on.  Nothing is impossible.

I know Mbinda-Moloto will try to resist the inclusion of Mphahlele's
faction in the convening of the conference / congress. The truth is there
can be no unity withiin the PAC without Mphahlele's faction. That we must
admit it. We all need each other. Mbinda faction needs both PAM and
Mphahlele's faction and vice-versa. I know many people are scared of
Mphahlele as an individual for his consistence for what he believes in but
they cannot wish him away from the PAC just like that. He is part and
parcel of the PAC. He is an asset and liability of the PAC like Mabaso,
Ntsie, Narius, Fihla, Mbinda, etc. We are products of PAC and no other
political party. To wish us away from the PAC is wishful thinking. We will
remain PAC inside or outside PAC. PAC must just learn how to live with us
like Julius Malaema to the ANC  or else we will be a toothache to the PAC,
both individually or collectively. That is a fact.

Comrades, PAM has no preconditions before attending PAC Special unity
Conference/Congress if we are invited accordingly and as long as we are
invited by PAC, not PAC factions (both Mbinda and Mphahlele faction or even
new PAC faction). We will definitely attend a properly organised PAC
Special Conference / Congress as long it will be organiised in line with
the PAC Constitution adopted before Qwaqwa Congress (at Tompie Seleka
Congress) as that is undoctored PAC Constitution.  If PAC does not have it,
we have it in our custody.

Comrades, we are not scared to be swallowed by PAC leadership. We know what
we stand for and what we expect for PAC unity to materialize.  We have the
right to march out of any unity conference / congress if it is not what we
expected or even later breakaway from the unholy marriage. We are not
obliged to unite if we are not the like-minded.

That is our position.

Izwe Lethu!

On 13 September 2016 at 18:57, Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi 
wrote:

> Cde Chargein
>
> Conference convened by who, when there are parallel NEC's?
>
> Which Constitution become applicable to convene such a conference since
> Mbinda-Moloto leadership faction follows it's own adopted in 2015 while
> others follow GaMatlala 2000 Constitution?
>
> Will PAM accede to follow PAC protocols?
>
> Shango lashu
>
> Nkrumah
>
> On 13 Sep 2016 17:54, "Chargein Mabaso"  wrote:
>
>> Comrade Nkrumah
>>
>> i made my proposal in the document i drafted. I believe a special
>> unity conference or congress should be convened to do wholistic
>> introspextion and maximum self-criticism and ceiticism as a party,
>> learn lessons from our successes and failures, take drastic
>> resolutions to uproot factiomalism in the party, disband all factions
>> and NEC structures elected based on factions, develop Party-building
>> programme to unite the Party into a great party, establish collective
>> leadership for collective responsibility, etc .
>>
>> On 13/09/2016, Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi  wrote:
>> > Cde Chargein
>> >
>> > Point taken, then what's your proposal to defactionalise and forge
>> > principled unity?
>> >
>> > Regards
>> > Nkrumah
>> >
>> > On 13 Sep 2016 13:34, "Chargein Mabaso"  wrote:
>> >
>> >> Comrade Nkrumah
>> >>
>> >> Sorry, I meant Bottom-up approach.
>> >>
>> >> The explanation you gave do not assist
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 13 September 2016 at 12:07, Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi <
>> >> nrkgag...@gmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > Cde Chargin
>> >> >
>> >> > I expressed and explain

Re: [PAYCO]

[Chargein Mabaso]

Comrade Nkrumah

i made my proposal in the document i drafted. I believe a special
unity conference or congress should be convened to do wholistic
introspextion and maximum self-criticism and ceiticism as a party,
learn lessons from our successes and failures, take drastic
resolutions to uproot factiomalism in the party, disband all factions
and NEC structures elected based on factions, develop Party-building
programme to unite the Party into a great party, establish collective
leadership for collective responsibility, etc .

On 13/09/2016, Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi  wrote:
> Cde Chargein
>
> Point taken, then what's your proposal to defactionalise and forge
> principled unity?
>
> Regards
> Nkrumah
>
> On 13 Sep 2016 13:34, "Chargein Mabaso"  wrote:
>
>> Comrade Nkrumah
>>
>> Sorry, I meant Bottom-up approach.
>>
>> The explanation you gave do not assist
>>
>>
>> On 13 September 2016 at 12:07, Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi <
>> nrkgag...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Cde Chargin
>> >
>> > I expressed and explained bottom-up approach not a top-up approach,
>> >
>> > Top-up approach is when members converged for the first time for an
>> > unity
>> > conference hoping to resolve leadership factions in two days (48 hours)
>> and
>> > also generate a PoA. Those who succeeds to attend a conference may lack
>> > a
>> > mandate thus represent their own individual jackets thus its highly
>> elitist
>> > since those with financial resources without branches nor mandates can
>> > attend the conference .
>> >
>> > But the bottom-up approach is a members driven process hence the
>> necessity
>> > to defactionalise and forge unity from branches  and regional levels as
>> > a
>> > priority, thus members take full ownership to drive principled unity of
>> the
>> > PAC since members generate mandates and define the principles of party
>> > unity; Bottom up approach is democratic and transparent programmatic
>> > approach. In a bottom-up approach the individual base elements of the
>> > system are first specified in great detail by members define the
>> > problem
>> > and formulate necessary interventions which constitutes a solution.
>> > These
>> > elements are then linked together to form larger subsystems, which then
>> in
>> > turn are linked, sometimes in many levels, until a complete top-level
>> > system is formed. This strategy often resembles a "seed" model, by
>> > which
>> > the beginnings are small but eventually grow in complexity and
>> > completeness. A "*bottom-up*" approach to changes one that works from
>> > the  grassroots (members and branches)—from a large number of people
>> > working together, through regular interaction they cause a decision to
>> > arise from their joint involvement. A decision by a number of
>> > activists,
>> > students, or victims of some incident to take action is a "bottom-up"
>> > decision. A bottom-up approach can be thought of as an incremental
>> > change
>> > approach that represents an emergent process cultivated and upheld
>> > primarily by members.
>> >
>> > Direct (repeat) response you question on "holding two rallies in one
>> > province and still claim unity in the PAC will be realized soon." Two
>> > rallies are held as a consequence of parallel structures but if members
>> per
>> > region example if PAC members in Vaal region do meet at an inclusive
>> > regional meeting and resolve not to attend rallies organised by what
>> > factionalised leadership meaning members consciously resolves to
>> > denounce
>> > and boycott factionalised rallies, meetings and any gathering will
>> catalyse
>> > the collapse of factions. In Vaal and other regions, the following
>> > bottom
>> > up approach can used. We invited both Mbinda and Letlapa leaderships to
>> an
>> > inclusive annual regional conference in 2015 for a frank discussions on
>> the
>> > state of the party (effectively we either work with all of them
>> > simultaneously or none of them) and also in PAC Johannesburg Region,
>> > members took a resolution to remain pro-PAC and united around
>> > principles
>> > which defines PAC, thus the members resolved to denounce factionalism
>> > and
>> > boycott (not-attend) any (or all) factionalised rallies, meetings,
>> > conference and events

Re: [PAYCO]

[Chargein Mabaso]

Comrade Nkrumah

Sorry, I meant Bottom-up approach.

The explanation you gave do not assist


On 13 September 2016 at 12:07, Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi 
wrote:

> Cde Chargin
>
> I expressed and explained bottom-up approach not a top-up approach,
>
> Top-up approach is when members converged for the first time for an unity
> conference hoping to resolve leadership factions in two days (48 hours) and
> also generate a PoA. Those who succeeds to attend a conference may lack a
> mandate thus represent their own individual jackets thus its highly elitist
> since those with financial resources without branches nor mandates can
> attend the conference .
>
> But the bottom-up approach is a members driven process hence the necessity
> to defactionalise and forge unity from branches  and regional levels as a
> priority, thus members take full ownership to drive principled unity of the
> PAC since members generate mandates and define the principles of party
> unity; Bottom up approach is democratic and transparent programmatic
> approach. In a bottom-up approach the individual base elements of the
> system are first specified in great detail by members define the problem
> and formulate necessary interventions which constitutes a solution. These
> elements are then linked together to form larger subsystems, which then in
> turn are linked, sometimes in many levels, until a complete top-level
> system is formed. This strategy often resembles a "seed" model, by which
> the beginnings are small but eventually grow in complexity and
> completeness. A "*bottom-up*" approach to changes one that works from
> the  grassroots (members and branches)—from a large number of people
> working together, through regular interaction they cause a decision to
> arise from their joint involvement. A decision by a number of activists,
> students, or victims of some incident to take action is a "bottom-up"
> decision. A bottom-up approach can be thought of as an incremental change
> approach that represents an emergent process cultivated and upheld
> primarily by members.
>
> Direct (repeat) response you question on "holding two rallies in one
> province and still claim unity in the PAC will be realized soon." Two
> rallies are held as a consequence of parallel structures but if members per
> region example if PAC members in Vaal region do meet at an inclusive
> regional meeting and resolve not to attend rallies organised by what
> factionalised leadership meaning members consciously resolves to denounce
> and boycott factionalised rallies, meetings and any gathering will catalyse
> the collapse of factions. In Vaal and other regions, the following bottom
> up approach can used. We invited both Mbinda and Letlapa leaderships to an
> inclusive annual regional conference in 2015 for a frank discussions on the
> state of the party (effectively we either work with all of them
> simultaneously or none of them) and also in PAC Johannesburg Region,
> members took a resolution to remain pro-PAC and united around principles
> which defines PAC, thus the members resolved to denounce factionalism and
> boycott (not-attend) any (or all) factionalised rallies, meetings,
> conference and events. In Johannesburg Regions, members have started
> working together and are encouraged to organise regular inclusive branch
> meetings and inclusive regional meetings. All members are encouraged to
> return to their respective branches and belong to a unified PAC branch. We
> as PAC members have taken the decisions to forge unity and rebuild party
> structures namely branches and regional structures which should propagate
> revolutionary Pan Africanism, Aims and Objectives of the PAC.  Regular
> inclusive regional meetings are held and we reach out to as many
> PAC (including PAM) members to attend and participate in party (re)building
> programme.
>
> [image: Figure 3. Top-down and bottom-up approach to problem solving.]
> The next stage is coordinate a PAC 3rd Gauteng PAC Unity Consultative
> Meeting, to consider a PAC Gauteng Provincial Unity Plan of Action. What's
> fundamental is members must agree as to what constitute forged principled
> unity and how to achieve it a provincial level, and how to monitor progress
> to defactionalise the PAC and forge principled unity at a provincial level
> meaning from branch to regional to provincial level.  Finally
> organisationally we aim at a set of i

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Re: [PAYCO]

[Chargein Mabaso]

ing one inclusive party events, we can't oversimplify the task
> to forge principled unity and defactionalise the party it's an internal
> struggle in it's own nature given the ideological contradictions prevalent
> within the party.
>
> The decisive battle to be won it's when party members in mass reject and
> denounce factional gatherings including a factional leaders and the same
> members resort to forge unity from their respective areas and build from
> that base.
>
> Shango lashu
> Nkrumah
>
> On 12 Sep 2016 18:34, "Chargein Mabaso"  wrote:
>
>> Comrade Nkrumah
>>
>> Theory is only good if it can address praxtical problems. You did
>> explain how will your Bottom-up approach can solve current dilema in
>> the Vaal. You did expolain why in Gaung there are two PAC rallIes
>> whenever the Party commemorates important days in its calender if your
>> apporoach works. You are two factions. That is clear. A united PAC in
>> Gauteng is expected to hold one rally,, not two or more on the same
>> day. May be there is lack of understanding of factions and
>> factionalism here or defence of factionalism. That is another debate
>> on its own.
>>
>> On 12/09/2016, Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi  wrote:
>> > Cde Chargein
>> >
>> > We run the risk to label everything and effort as a faction, please 1.
>> > define and describe a faction.
>> >
>> > Secondly, it's evident we disagree on the approach to forge principled
>> > unity. We advocate a Bottom-up approach which has proven itself to be
>> most
>> > effective to defactionalise, reconcile and forge unity in the PAC
>> starting
>> > from branch level leading to national level- national conference to
>> > consolidate and create a PoA. Among many ingredients the bottom-Up
>> approach
>> > is Inclusive Branch and regional meetings to forge unity should be
>> > facilitated by members accepted by such that the unification process is
>> > credible and has integrity.  A party unification process which is
>> members
>> > centred and members driven premised on the very same principle of
>> > Democratic Centralism.
>> >
>> > As opposed to members who are highly factionalised meeting for the first
>> > time at a national conference hoping to achieve unity in less 48 hours
>> > national conference.
>> >
>> > Shango lashu
>> >
>> > On 12 Sep 2016 16:42, "Chargein Mabaso"  wrote:
>> >
>> >> Comrade Nkrumah
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> The Top-up approach sounds good in theory but not in practice. The
>> >> Marxist philosophy of dialectical materialism *“…emphasizes the
>> >> dependence of theory on practice, emphasizes that theory is based on
>> >> practice and in turn serves practice.”* [*Mao Tse Tung on Theory and
>> >> Practice*]. Theory does not serve itself. The same applies to natural
>> >> science and our current challenge to unite the PAC. That is, the
>> >> correctness of the Top-up approach should be based on practice. Ours is
>> >> to
>> >> be put the Top-up approach on test through practice.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Let’s take, for example, the Vaal area as a typical case in hand. The
>> >> Top-up approach assumes (makes hypothesis that) if comrade Apa Pooe
>> (who
>> >> belongs to Mphahlele faction) convenes a branch or regional meeting
>> today
>> >> that such a meeting will be attended by comrade Nthate (who belongs to
>> >> Mbinda-Moloto faction) without any tensions ending up to verbal attacks
>> >> and
>> >> physical fights. That is incorrect. In the same meeting comrade
>> >> Solundwane
>> >> or Mabaso, a PAM member, are also expected to attend that meeting
>> without
>> >> tensions simmering. The same is true if the meeting is convened by cde
>> >> Nthate or cde Mabaso. The meeting will fuel unnecessary tensions and
>> will
>> >> be a recipe for more conflict than unity. Remember all these factions
>> >> still
>> >> have scores to settle which are still there. They are gone just because
>> >> of
>> >> the talk for unity. In the same meeting convened by APA Pooe, President
>> >> Mphahlele will be invited to address the meeting as a PAC President as
>> it
>> >> is the case now in every funeral chaired by his faction. If the meeting
>> >

Re: [PAYCO]

[Chargein Mabaso]

Comrade Nkrumah

Theory is only good if it can address praxtical problems. You did
explain how will your Bottom-up approach can solve current dilema in
the Vaal. You did expolain why in Gaung there are two PAC rallIes
whenever the Party commemorates important days in its calender if your
apporoach works. You are two factions. That is clear. A united PAC in
Gauteng is expected to hold one rally,, not two or more on the same
day. May be there is lack of understanding of factions and
factionalism here or defence of factionalism. That is another debate
on its own.

On 12/09/2016, Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi  wrote:
> Cde Chargein
>
> We run the risk to label everything and effort as a faction, please 1.
> define and describe a faction.
>
> Secondly, it's evident we disagree on the approach to forge principled
> unity. We advocate a Bottom-up approach which has proven itself to be most
> effective to defactionalise, reconcile and forge unity in the PAC starting
> from branch level leading to national level- national conference to
> consolidate and create a PoA. Among many ingredients the bottom-Up approach
> is Inclusive Branch and regional meetings to forge unity should be
> facilitated by members accepted by such that the unification process is
> credible and has integrity.  A party unification process which is members
> centred and members driven premised on the very same principle of
> Democratic Centralism.
>
> As opposed to members who are highly factionalised meeting for the first
> time at a national conference hoping to achieve unity in less 48 hours
> national conference.
>
> Shango lashu
>
> On 12 Sep 2016 16:42, "Chargein Mabaso"  wrote:
>
>> Comrade Nkrumah
>>
>>
>>
>> The Top-up approach sounds good in theory but not in practice. The
>> Marxist philosophy of dialectical materialism *“…emphasizes the
>> dependence of theory on practice, emphasizes that theory is based on
>> practice and in turn serves practice.”* [*Mao Tse Tung on Theory and
>> Practice*]. Theory does not serve itself. The same applies to natural
>> science and our current challenge to unite the PAC. That is, the
>> correctness of the Top-up approach should be based on practice. Ours is
>> to
>> be put the Top-up approach on test through practice.
>>
>>
>>
>> Let’s take, for example, the Vaal area as a typical case in hand. The
>> Top-up approach assumes (makes hypothesis that) if comrade Apa Pooe (who
>> belongs to Mphahlele faction) convenes a branch or regional meeting today
>> that such a meeting will be attended by comrade Nthate (who belongs to
>> Mbinda-Moloto faction) without any tensions ending up to verbal attacks
>> and
>> physical fights. That is incorrect. In the same meeting comrade
>> Solundwane
>> or Mabaso, a PAM member, are also expected to attend that meeting without
>> tensions simmering. The same is true if the meeting is convened by cde
>> Nthate or cde Mabaso. The meeting will fuel unnecessary tensions and will
>> be a recipe for more conflict than unity. Remember all these factions
>> still
>> have scores to settle which are still there. They are gone just because
>> of
>> the talk for unity. In the same meeting convened by APA Pooe, President
>> Mphahlele will be invited to address the meeting as a PAC President as it
>> is the case now in every funeral chaired by his faction. If the meeting
>> is
>> called by cde Nthate, President Mbinda or Moloto will also be invited to
>> address the meeting as the PAC President or Secretary General.  The same
>> applies to President Maseko. He will address the meeting as a PAM
>> President
>> too. That will be confusion at its best, if not madness.
>>
>>
>>
>> All these comrades believe they were and are still correct in their views
>> and acts. I personally believe our decision to form PAM was correct. I
>> still maintain my views till now. I need to be told that it was wrong.
>> The
>> same is true for Pooe and Nthate. They also believe they were and are
>> still
>> right. Even you comrade Nkrumah you believe you were and are still
>> correct
>> in your own views and acts. That is why there is the need for a special
>> conference or congress to iron out our differences, once and for all. We
>> need to be brutal frank to each other We are not in a revolution to nurse
>> each other’s egos and feelings. If we were all wrong we must be told in
>> no
>> uncertain terms to avoid the repeat of the same mistakes in the future.
>> All
>> these factions must admit they were wrong based on the PAC Basic
>> Documents
>> and be prepar

Re: [PAYCO]

[Chargein Mabaso]

 and file. The Party as an
> organization at all levels and the broad body of the membership and it has
> been established in accordance with a definite principle, that is,
> democratic centralism in the Party.
>
>
>
> ·Organise regular all members inclusive branch meetings;
>
> ·Reconstitute branches and operate within party constitution and
> disciplinary code;
>
> ·Organise regular all members regional meetings;
>
> ·Reconstitute regions and operate within the party constitution
> and disciplinary code;
>
> ·Organise ideological and political workshops on regular basis at
> regional and provincial level;
>
> ·Initiate and organise mass based community struggles;
>
> ·Organise regular all inclusive provincial meetings to
> consolidate unity with common purpose and consolidate gains made;
>
> ·Approach the PAC national unity conference from a position of
> unity achieved from the bottom to top, that is branches to regional then
> provincial;
>
>
>
> Avoid attending and convening national conferences coming from your
> branches and regions being divided and highly factionalised, instead
> approach national unity conference from a position where concrete steps and
> actions has been taken, gains had been to forge principle unity from the
> branch level moving upward.
>
>
> If P .A.C. wants to forge ahead, it must adopt and carry out this
> principle with firmness and thoroughness. To address and root out
> Factionalism which the party basic documents has concluded that
> “Factionalism is the enemy of solidarity and unity of action”, the Party
> basic documents also concludes that “to destroy it (factionalism) at its
> roots, maximum self-criticism should be encouraged within the movement. A
> movement that adopts democratic centralism in its approach to its
> organizational problems will know how to deal with the virus of
> factionalism”. And that “Where the normal processes of free discussion fail
> to curb factional tendencies, then firm iron discipline should come into
> play, and factional”.
>
>
>
> Shango Lashu
>
> NKrumah
>
>
>
> On 9 September 2016 at 11:13, Chargein Mabaso 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> Comrade Nkrumah
>>
>> How are you, Son of the soil?
>>
>> I would also appreciate to meet you and other comrade who would  like to
>> share ideas on the unity talks in relation to my input. My position is not
>> cast in stone. I have applied my mind to the task at hand. May be I am not
>> informed on the basis of twor approaches. I only based my position on the
>> scientific approach to Party unity. I also drew lessons from other
>> revolutions worldwide. The current crisis is not unique to PAC. All
>> revolutionary parties through the world experienced the same challenge of
>> factionalism. They addressed their own crises the same way as enshrined in
>> the PAC Basic Documents. It is the only objective and scientific approach.
>> Others are subjective and unscientific. That is my stance.
>>
>> Lest we forget! There is unfinished business in the PAC. People want to
>> settle old scores, in one way or another. Let's not trivalise the current
>> crisis. Some of political and ideological differences in the PAC have their
>> roots going as far as in exile and in Robben Island in the days of
>> Casablanca and Morovian groups, Katanga's, Panafro, Sobukwe Forum, APRP,
>> etc.  PAM, ID and APC are new phenomena. We need to open those wounds,
>> surgically clean and stitch them so that they heal properly. The
>> broad-church mentality does not work even in reformist parties like the
>> ANC,  let alone in evolutionary ones.
>>
>> My challenge is: I believe the approach enshrined in the PAC Basic
>> Documents is the only correct and scientific one. The reason is, from my
>> experience since I joined PAC, any position in line with the PAC Basic
>> Documents is always the correct one at the end. Any violation of the PAC
>> Basic Documents always proved to be wrong in the final analysis. Take, for
>> example, the suspension of armed struggle by the PAC NWC and the
>> President's violation of the PAC Constitution and Disciplinary Code after
>> Qwaqwa Congress. No amount of innovation and creativity will ever disprove
>> the correctness of the PAC Basic Documents. They are sacrosanct to us as
>> Pan Africanist just like the Bible is to Christians. Once comrades start to
>> question their correctness, I always feel suspicious of the intentions of
>> those Party members. I know there is currently some members who openly
>> disagree with Sobukwe and 

[PAYCO] Re: RE:

[Chargein Mabaso]

Shocking news! May his soul rest in peace.

On 12/09/2016, Mawabo Sijila  wrote:
> M-Afrika!
> Kungosizi ukuvakalisa ngokushiywa kwethu nguCde Lulamile Mdoda,
> ngokugwintwa/okanye ukukhuthuzwa, oonongqayi betalipokisi / oonqawayiphuzwa
> (amapolisa) basaphanda, ebekwindlela esingise emsebenzini kutshanje.
>
> Yanga umphefumlo wakhe ungalala ngoxolo.
>
> Uhambo lwakho ngesiquphe lusothusile Mzangwa, sisaman’ ukukuthundeza,
> singabanye nabanye, ngale naleya ngokwezigaba ebesisajonge ukuba
> mawuzifikelele njengomntu, njengabakhuluwa bakho nyana wesizwe.
>
> Izwe lethu iAfrika!
>
> Mawabo Sijila
>
>
> "All views or opinions expressed in this electronic message and its
> attachments are the view of the sender and do not necessarily reflect the
> views and opinions of the Western Cape Government (the WCG). No employee of
> the WCG is entitled to conclude a binding contract on behalf of the WCG
> unless he/she is an accounting officer of the WCG, or his or her authorised
> representative. The information contained in this message and its
> attachments may be confidential or privileged and is for the use of the
> named recipient only, except where the sender specifically states otherwise.
> If you are not the intended recipient you may not copy or deliver this
> message to anyone."
>

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Re: [PAYCO]

[Chargein Mabaso]

Comrade Nkrumah

How are you, Son of the soil?

I would also appreciate to meet you and other comrade who would  like to
share ideas on the unity talks in relation to my input. My position is not
cast in stone. I have applied my mind to the task at hand. May be I am not
informed on the basis of twor approaches. I only based my position on the
scientific approach to Party unity. I also drew lessons from other
revolutions worldwide. The current crisis is not unique to PAC. All
revolutionary parties through the world experienced the same challenge of
factionalism. They addressed their own crises the same way as enshrined in
the PAC Basic Documents. It is the only objective and scientific approach.
Others are subjective and unscientific. That is my stance.

Lest we forget! There is unfinished business in the PAC. People want to
settle old scores, in one way or another. Let's not trivalise the current
crisis. Some of political and ideological differences in the PAC have their
roots going as far as in exile and in Robben Island in the days of
Casablanca and Morovian groups, Katanga's, Panafro, Sobukwe Forum, APRP,
etc.  PAM, ID and APC are new phenomena. We need to open those wounds,
surgically clean and stitch them so that they heal properly. The
broad-church mentality does not work even in reformist parties like the
ANC,  let alone in evolutionary ones.

My challenge is: I believe the approach enshrined in the PAC Basic
Documents is the only correct and scientific one. The reason is, from my
experience since I joined PAC, any position in line with the PAC Basic
Documents is always the correct one at the end. Any violation of the PAC
Basic Documents always proved to be wrong in the final analysis. Take, for
example, the suspension of armed struggle by the PAC NWC and the
President's violation of the PAC Constitution and Disciplinary Code after
Qwaqwa Congress. No amount of innovation and creativity will ever disprove
the correctness of the PAC Basic Documents. They are sacrosanct to us as
Pan Africanist just like the Bible is to Christians. Once comrades start to
question their correctness, I always feel suspicious of the intentions of
those Party members. I know there is currently some members who openly
disagree with Sobukwe and Kwame Nkrumah on certain political line they
advocated for the Party Their mere mention of such disagreements makes me
doubt their intentions and honest. They sound mischievous. To me, that is
strange to claim to be following in the footsteps of Sobukwe and Nkrumah
and still disagree with the them on their political line. Such a move is
like being a proud Christian totally opposed to some of the teachings of
Jesus Christ, for example, being opposed to the "turn-the-other-chick"
stance advocated by Jesus Christ. It's contradiction in terms. Honest and
loyal Christians do not advocate "an-eye-for-an-eye" stance in dealing with
their enemies.

May be after our meeting I will be convinced otherwise. As of now, I am
not. I currently believe there is no need to event the wheel at this stage.
The tools of resolving PAC crisis are enshrined in the PAC Basic Documents,
no where else. I may be wrong. Please educate me, noble sons and daughters
of the soil.

I am available next week from  Monday to Friday. I will be around Joburg
for the whole week. We can meet at any convenient time. Let's keep in
contact.

I want to be honest, I am not convince the Top-down and Bottom-up
approaches will ever work. I may be wrong.  My instinct and logic say the
opposite. Objectively, the two approaches are not workable. May be after
our meeting I will see light at the end of the tunnel. Let's talk later,
comrade.

Izwe Lethu!


Charge-in Mabaso
Cell: 071 020 3554

 .





On 8 September 2016 at 21:17, Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi 
wrote:

> Cde Charge in
>
> Thanks for the document which I perused, your critique of Top Down and
> Bottom Up strategies fails to recognise the solutions presented or arising
> from each strategy and also that both strategies are capable to converge as
> long as there the two strategies are not executed from an antagonist
> initiators.
>
> Please note: Not all PAC Branches and regions have parallel structures, in
> some areas parallel structures have collapsed, this present a space to
> rebuild ftom the bottom.
>
> I suggest a session to exchange ideas on your paper.
>
> Shango lashu
> Nkrumah
>
> On 8 Sep 2016 13:28, "Chargein Mabaso"  wrote:
>
>> Ma-Afrika
>>
>> Please find the attached document as my objective contribution to the
>> debate on unity talks within the Pan Africanist camp. It is my sincere hope
>> that the contribution will kick-start the derailed talks into motion in the
>> right direction.
>>
>> Izwe Lethu!
>>
>> .
>>
>> --
>> --
>> Sending your posting to payco@googlegr

Re: [PAYCO] PAC and the Court Ruling

[Chargein Mabaso]

eating chaos and havoc in those municipalities
to get attention. As a Party we cannot adopt their adventurist approach
they copied from right wing politics in Europe. But, mass action is still
the necessity in politics. Ours should be a disciplined struggle. I don't
mean armchair politicians who suffer from intellectual wavering and only
analyse events instead of making those events (waging the revolution).
Let's follow in the footsteps of Robert Mangaliso Sobukwe who adopted mass
action, not bourgeois campaigns and mass demostrations.



What is your opinion on my contribution? Let's be objective. Let's not
shoot the messenger. The people have, indeed, spoken in the recent
elections..

Izwe Lethu!. .

On 17 August 2016 at 20:45, Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi 
wrote:

> Izwe lethu
>
> There is no existence of Mpethi's adventure political party in
> Johannesburg Region, and positive gains is PAC members lost to APC and PAM
> are now returning back. We speak principled unity to re-build PAC as mas
> based revolutionary party for the seizure of state political power to
> establish an Afrikanist Socialist Democracy,it's not easy but we are making
> meaningful progress.
>
> Shango lashu
> Nkrumah
>
>
> On 17 August 2016 at 11:55, Mphiri Masoga  wrote:
>
>> Good Morning MoAfrika Mashilo
>>
>> PASMA I am referring to Newly formed organisation by those who wanted
>> UNITY with the intention to deceive PAC and its Loyal Members
>>
>> Please ensure that you engage with people who have Integrity and can be
>> trusted when you continue with your programme as "Johannesburg Region"
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> *electronically send no signed - authentic *
>>
>> Mphiri Masoga
>> SACWU
>> T (012) 320 6472 - 5
>> F (012) 320 2179
>> F2email: 086 225 4254
>> Email: mphi...@gmail.com
>> C 073 182 2656
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 1:30 PM, Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi <
>> nrkgag...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> PASMA as a PAC Component structure continues to lead students mass
>>> agitation in regard to fees must fall.
>>>
>>> Nkrumah
>>>
>>> On 15 August 2016 at 12:55, Mphiri Masoga  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Good Morning MaAfrika
>>>>
>>>> What happened to PASMA AND ARM?
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> *electronically send no signed - authentic *
>>>>
>>>> Mphiri Masoga
>>>> SACWU
>>>> T (012) 320 6472 - 5
>>>> F (012) 320 2179
>>>> F2email: 086 225 4254
>>>> Email: mphi...@gmail.com
>>>> C 073 182 2656
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Aug 15, 2016 at 12:19 PM, Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi <
>>>> nrkgag...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 10 February 2012 at 11:26, Chargein Mabaso 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Comrades
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Letlapa lost the court appeal. We have been proved right on the
>>>>>> violation of the PAC. But, who will bell the cat within the PAC, and
>>>>>> how? Let's wait and see. Power struggles and smear campaigns that
>>>>>> always divide the Pan Africanist camp will now show its ugly face
>>>>>> instead of focusing at the mammoth task at hand. Some snubbing has
>>>>>> already started.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Good luck, noble sons and daughters of Soil. You are now facing a big
>>>>>> test. Only men and women of vision can shoulder this huge
>>>>>> responsibility successfully. We are watching you keenly. Kazi ukuba
>>>>>> izozala nkomoni?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Izwe Lethu!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Charge-in Mabaso
>>>>>> Ex- PASO Veteran
>>>>>> 0710203554
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2/6/12, mmas...@webmail.co.za  wrote:
>>>>>> > The outcome of the Court proceedings in the matter pertaining to the
>>>>>> > legality of the Alice Congress was as interesting as has been the
>>>>>> many other
>>>>>> > legal fracas the PAC has had to endure over the years.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Whilst this is continued evidence of the Party leadership s
>>>>>> inability to
>>>>>> > find the

Re: [PAYCO] Re: Notice of Extended NEC Meeting and Agenda

[Chargein Mabaso]

Comrades, in your responses learn to mark the ball, not the man. To
answer you, it is enough to remind you few things. Those who are not
new in the Pzn Africanist fold know what happened in the past after
the suspension of PAC Constitution by PAC President letlapa Mphahlele
through the advice of those who claim to be clean now, especially
Narius Moloto. Whoever has forgetten that part of our history is
either having short memory or deliberately pretending to have
forgetten like any typical hypocrite. If PAM is not PAC, why PAC
participated in the funeral of President Clarence Makwetu who was a
member of PAM and claimed him as its member too? Was it just for
political scoring on the party of PAC members? I don't believe so? It
is because they know PAM is PAC at it was the case in 1989 up to the
unbanning of PAC. At that time, PAC could not operate freely inside
the country. We could not carry PAC card and organise publicly. We
were instructed by PAC President Zephania Mothopeng to launch PAM.
Zeph was the only person allowed at that time to be a member of banned
PAC and carry its card public. Same is true me. Whoever says I am not
a PAC as I was before PAC unbanning is not in his sober mind. Let me
remind you again. When we were expelled from PAC and PAC was crippled
politically by people Narius Moloto and Co possible including you, we
relaunched PAM and adopted PAC Basic Documents (Pan Africanist
Manifesto & Constitution) without amending them except replacing PAC
name with PAM. How can then any person in his normal senses claim PAM
is not PAC? It's madness. QWHAT PAC different from other political
parties? It's not the name PAC. It is the 1959 Basic Documents. Don't
you know that simple logic? What you are saying is like teling us that
Letlapa Mphahlele, Apa Pooe, Makwtu, Mlambo, Sobukwe, etc are not PAC
members. Only sick people can repeat the same tired trick to justify
their mischievious acts.  Albert Eistein, the great Scientist, rightly
said, insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expect
different results. Comrades are doing just that to destroy PAC
PERMANENTLY.  Izwe Lethu!

On 27/05/2016, d...@pac.org.za  wrote:
>
> Are you back in the party Cde Mcharge? the last time I check you were a
> senior official in PAM.PAM is an independent formation, it is certainly
> not PAC. Why this quite return when you made noise about leaving the party
> of Sobukwe? Announce your intentions to return Cde Mcharge, before you
> take center stage.
>
>
>
> On Fri, May 27, 2016 11:25 am, Chargein Mabaso wrote:
>> Mbinda-Moloto faction can say whatever about Party unity (Bottom up or
>> Top down), it doesn't matter. Its actions say the opposite to Party
>> unity. Their faction is totally anti-Party unity. Its philosophical
>> arguments can fool us no more. We can read between the lines and see
>> clearly its sinister motives sugarcoated in legal jargons. The faction
>> tries to parade itself as a better devil. On the contrary, it is more
>> divisive and dangerous than all.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 26/05/2016, Mohlomphegi Mphahlele  wrote:
>>
>>> Thank you Comrade Chargein for being open and frank about Eddie
>>> utterances and his current position in our party fiasco. Hope he take
>>> that like a true Pan Africanist soldier. I always tell comrades that you
>>> cannot pretend to be clean coming out of a mud game. We are all soiled
>>> in one way or another and cannot claim legitimacy or purity in the mess
>>> that our party is in. The other danger that our young comrades are doing
>>> is to allow to be bought by lousy stipends. Inde lendlela yomzabalazo!
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Chargein Mabaso [mailto:chargein...@gmail.com]
>>> Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2016 2:27 PM
>>> To: payco@googlegroups.com
>>> Cc: vakele mkandawire; Maciej Radzio; Johnson Mlambo; Xola Tyamzashe;
>>> tumimod...@hotmail.co.za; p...@vodamail.co.za; phumzilenomnga;
>>> po...@yahoo.com; PAC Mogale city PAC; PAC TSHWANE;
>>> pacaza...@webmail.co.za; pasmapresid...@gmail.com; pac.nc...@gmail.com;
>>> patrick.khum...@ekurhuleni.gov.za; Sbusiso Xaba; sndamane; Lehlogonolo
>>> Digashu; David Dube; frambo...@gmail.com; sandla goqwana; Tebogo
>>> Masipa;
>>> Solly Hlubi; bra junior; Keith Moyce; Lucas Mmola; Zola Nyamela; Leago
>>> Moselakgomo; m...@pac.org.za; Kidi Bolelwang; Sipho Owen;
>>> celenjabulo...@gmail.com; bc...@netactive.co.za; nyalu...@live.co.za;
>>> nnyq...@gmail.com; nombule...@webmail.com; nol...@nactu.org.za; Pinkie
>>> Monyane; Moshe Mahlomola; msiro; mop...@pac.org.za;
>>> mafub...@hotmail.com; Mphiri Masoga; mnd...@yahoo.com; Malinge Plaatjie;
>>> moko

Re: [PAYCO] Re: Notice of Extended NEC Meeting and Agenda

[Chargein Mabaso]

Comrade Eddie.

Please nind your language when you talk to another comrades-in-arms.
There is neither absolute honest and absolute truth in what is
happening in the Pan Africanist fold. Your deeds do not serve PAC
interest but those of your faction and enenies, consciously or
uncomsciously. We are busy talking about PAC unity and you guys are
busy engaged in personal and factional agendas. Don't pretend as if
you do not know PAC political dynamics is at the moment. Your NEC is
also a NEC for a particular faction too. It is not better than other
PAC factions. Currently, your faction (Mbinda-Moloto faction) is
canerous, reactionary and countrrevolution. It is counterrevolutionary
and reactionary for any member to be a stumblig block (opposed /
obstacle) to Party unity. Genuine loyal PAC leaders ought run the
Party through properly constituted PAC conferences and congresses as
stipulated by the PAC Constitution, not through neocolonial courts and
factional conferences and congresses. What you are doing is tantamount
to working for our enemies, consciously or unconsciously. If the PAC
unity fails because of you, comrades, be rest assured, history will
judge you harshly, both individually and collectively. It will be
unkind to you as it did to other  wrong elemnts in the Party
throughout the political life of PAC. Continue messing the Party at
your risk and peril! Remember the Oath of Allegation you took. It
still applies. History will be judge unkindly. Narius Moloto has no
clean hands as you think. He played a major in the destruction of PAC
to where it is today. He cannot pretend otherwise. Once beaten twice
shy. Guys, you can run but you cannot hide. You can't fool us again.
We are watching your deeds with keen interest! Continue, comrades,
messing the PAC. We will be observers (Qubani sizakubamb'ikhuba!)

Izwe Lethu!

On 26/05/2016, eddie mfulwane  wrote:
> Cde Apa
>
> I'm extremely disturbed with you sending me these rubbish to me. I know you
> are normal and a man of your age is expected to have some level of
> maturity. Continuing with this non existing dream that you are PAC or worse
> PAC leadership comes to me as a concern that old men who are suppose to be
> busy with family responsibilities are busy chasing shadows.
>
> I hope its for the last time you include my email in these foolish non
> existing dream. *GET IT INTO YOUR HEAD'S...YOU HAVE LOST AND THEREFORE
> NO LONGER PAC LEADERSHIP!!*
>
> Seating here looking at what you call an agenda, I see you talking of
> Elections and IEC related matters and I wonder where are you going to
> submit the names, or anything you resolve on in this joke of a meeting.
>
> President Luthando Mbinda and other leaders of other parties are busy with
> IEC processes ...setting timetables and guidelines and you guys are still
> lying to each other, that there is some little hope somewhere that you will
> create some confusion and submit whatever you intend to.
>
>
> Never again should you confuse me for being part of your dream I'm a
> sober PAC member who knows who and what PAC is and that is nothing like
> you. Get a life or be bold enough to go start your own little organisation.
>
> *Oooh as a South African citizen you are welcome to join the PAC LGE 2016
> Manifesto Launch on the 28th May 2016 at Attrigeville @ 10H00 and VOTE PAC
> on 03rd August 2016.*
>
>
> Yours in PAC behind the leadership of President Luthando Mbinda
>
> On Thu, May 26, 2016 at 4:20 AM, vakele mkandawire 
> wrote:
>
>> Greetings,
>>
>> Kindly find attached Notice of Extended NEC Meeting and Agenda.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Apa Pooe
>> Sec for Information and Publicity
>> Mobile Number: 083 9402 755
>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
> *RE.Mfulwane*
>
>
>
>
> *Pan-Africanist Youth Congress Office Of the Secretary Generalcde Eddie
> MfulwaneCell: 084 376 6634*
>
> --
> --
> Sending your posting to payco@googlegroups.com
>
> Unsubscribe by sending an email to payco-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
>
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>
> Visit our website at www.mayihlome.wordpress.com
>
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Re: [PAYCO] Time to call it quits for my Pres.

[Chargein Mabaso]

eak with pep and zest, now they are bused only to listen to
> gobbledygook by uninspiring orators. Look no further than us if you want to
> see this in actual context.
>
> Mugabe on the other hand is a type of speaker whom when he speaks, the world
> listens, the detractors always fasten their seatlbelts that is why it was
> even easy to hype up the situation surrounding his address. Always clear,
> eloquent and caustic to a certain extent but this did not excuse him from
> familiarising himself with the speech prior to delivery. With that said
> there can be other convincing reasons for daring Mugabe to resign but speech
> delivery is the least of them.
>
> Meanwhile, in the Pan Afrikanist block I cannot remember the last time we
> had a speaker who could move audiences both within and outside his
> constituency. You can have all the requisite theory but if it lacks delivery
> of a professional punch it is as good as dull. Let us continue reflecting on
> mass communication being an uncompromising leadership character trait.
>
>
> On Sunday, September 20, 2015 10:04 PM, Linda Ndebele
> mailto:kwamendeb...@webmail.co.za>> wrote:
>
> Surely comrade Mmbara the Deputy President is fit for leading the country
> and ZANU-PF as President. Surely the liberation of Zimbabwe was a collective
> effort of Zanu-PF and the people of Zimbabwe. It can't be Mugabe forever
> even when all can see that age is truly overtaking him. ZANU-PF has a duty
> to ensure ofcourse that his legacy is not undone but all indications
> indicate that the Oldman has reached his ultimate point, he can't give
> anything better.
> Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!
> 
> From: Hulisani mailto:mmbar...@hotmail.com>>
> Sender: payco@googlegroups.com<mailto:payco@googlegroups.com>
> Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2015 20:08:07 +0200
> To: PAYCO GOOGLE GROUP PAYCO GOOGLE
> GROUPmailto:payco@googlegroups.com>>
> ReplyTo: payco@googlegroups.com<mailto:payco@googlegroups.com>
> Subject: RE: [PAYCO] Time to call it quits for my Pres.
>
> Comrade Linda, any ideas on who should succeed Oldman RG Mugabe and his
> peers in ZANU- PF leadership? I think though ZANU-PF is keenly aware of the
> succession matter and is probably fairly prepared for the inevitable
> departure of Mugabe and his peers.
>
>
>> Subject: Re: [PAYCO] Time to call it quits for my Pres.
>> To: payco@googlegroups.com<mailto:payco@googlegroups.com>
>> From: kwamendeb...@webmail.co.za<mailto:kwamendeb...@webmail.co.za>
>> Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2015 17:48:02 +
>>
>> I think our love for the old man to a certain extent blind us to reality.
>> That Mugabe is old is an undeniable fact? That he's now susceptible to
>> things that happens to older people such as tripping on stairways, falling
>> in the bathroom, getting ill often and ofcourse reading a wrong speech
>> without realizing. Oflate the oldman has been committing serious mistakes
>> that embarrasses all of us, example was when he made statements loaded
>> with tribal hatred recently.
>>
>> Ofcourse the persons in the Presidents Office responsible for speech
>> writing and Head of the President's office must be taken to task for this
>> blunder. Having said that, the President cannot be absolved from this
>> blunder, he should have realized whilst reading the speech that he had
>> once read it. If the President reads his speeches with comprehension he
>> could have realised on the first 2 paragraphs of the speech except if he
>> couldn't recall because of age.
>>
>> I remain convinced comrades that succession has never been this urgent.
>> When our leader Fidel Castro was being overtaken by age he voluntarily
>> handed the baton. The Oldman RG Mugabe must hand the baton.
>>
>> Izwe lethu!
>> Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Chargein Mabaso
>> mailto:chargein...@gmail.com>>
>> Sender: payco@googlegroups.com<mailto:payco@googlegroups.com>
>> Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2015 18:55:46
>> To: mailto:payco@googlegroups.com>>
>> Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com<mailto:payco@googlegroups.com>
>> Subject: Re: [PAYCO] Time to call it quits for my Pres.
>>
>> Comrades,
>>
>> Let's be serious. This is a serious matter just like when President
>> Boris Yeltsin of Russia tripped and staggered infront of the public
>> media making mockery of himself. He was redicule and dubbed as being
>> drunk on an important occassion and called to resign. .
>>
>> Ma-Afrika, t

Re: [PAYCO] Time to call it quits for my Pres.

[Chargein Mabaso]

Comrades,

Let's be serious. This is a serious matter just like when President
Boris Yeltsin of Russia tripped and staggered infront of the public
media making mockery of himself. He was redicule and dubbed as being
drunk on an important occassion and called to resign. .

Ma-Afrika, there is no way that the State President of a country can
read a wrong speech in a public platform by accident or omission by
his personal aids. How can that happen in any country? Where was the
speech writer who is paid to do that?  I also have the same question.
Where were the communications department, VIP proetection, security
and intelligent structures who are paid to protect the image
(reputation) of the President and that of Zimbabwe as country when
this fiasco happened? The President is the face of the country. That
is why enemies of any couuntry target the President as their enemey
number one. Look at the tight security of President Obama wherever he
goes. Look at the noise in many papers about  wrong sign language
interpreter (psychopath) who stood next to President Obama during
Mandela!s Memorial service.  Any threat against President Obama's life
and image is a direct threat to America as a country, not just to
Obama as an individual. What happened to President Mugabe was a clear
sabotage from within his own camp.  Embarassing the President of a
country is a punishable offence, if not high treason, for anyone who
did it, consciously or unconsciously. The whole saga did come as a
surprise after Mujuru crisis in Zimbabwe, if we know her influence and
that of her husband in the military, security and intelligence
structures in Zimbabwe.. I guess so. The whole issue seems to be an
inside job to deepen the crisis in Zimbabwe and check the reaction of
the Mugabe:s inner circle. Recently, it was reported on papers that
few days after Mnangagwa was elected as Vice President at the expense
of Joyce Muju head, poison was found in his office afer his secretary
collapdsed and rushed to hospital due to inhalation of the poisonous
gases (attempted assassination of the second in command). That was
very serious. Once beaten twice shy. What will be the third move after
this one? My guess is as good as yours.

On 9/19/15, Hulisani  wrote:
> Evening comrades, I wouldn't want to necessary venture into either side of
> the debate regarding whether or not Mugabe should leave as a matter of
> urgency. I think the speech incident is being blown out of proportion in so
> far as Mugabe is being blamed for the oversight. My understanding is that
> Mugabe has a communication team that assist him with these issues who must
> make sure the president has the right speech for the right occasion, whether
> or not he personally wrote the speech himself. So how it ought to work is
> that someone will type the speech, print it, place it on the pulpit before
> Mugabe ascends to the podium. This despite whether or not the president has
> kept a copy for himself. In my view, if anyone must go with immediate
> effect, it is definitely the speech writer or the head of his communication
> for being casual and not taking their salaried jobs seriously. Even then I
> would say firing who ever is responsible for this will amount to some kind
> of heavy handedness. Overall I think the issue of reading the wrong speech
> is for all intents and purposes trivial. I'm sure for any president, this
> would be the least oversight, which would not warrant calls for a leader to
> step down. I am not sure if age has anything to do with it. Even if it has,
> in the bigger scheme of things (I insist reading a wrong speech is a minor
> oversight, it is not even a transgression), does the reading of the speech
> outweighs all other political considerations for retaining the leader? I
> think not, instead my view is that the media has made sure to sensationalize
> this issue as they always do.
>
>
>> Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2015 11:13:28 +0200
>> Subject: Re: [PAYCO] Time to call it quits for my Pres.
>> From: chargein...@gmail.com
>> To: payco@googlegroups.com
>>
>> It is not as easy as like that for him, comrade. If Mugabe goes, there
>> will be political upheaval in Zimbabwe. It will mean regime change.
>> His Inner Circle will have to go too. That will be costly. It is the
>> one forcing him to remain in power. It's a political marriage unti
>> death. .even if he wants to go but they are definitely telling not to
>> abandone them. They want Mugabe to rule until his last day on earth so
>> that they can turn him into a deity like Mandela, Lenin, Mao Tse Tung
>> to continue ruling and scare political rivals opposing them as
>> disrespecting Mugabe's last will and vision. This is exactly what is
>> going in PAC. Letlapa Mphahlele may be forced to remain PAC President
>> even when the writing is on the wall for him. He will only voluntarily
>> step down when his Inner Circle in his faction see it it fit. They
>> know his downfall is also theirs. There will be regime change in the
>>

Re: [PAYCO] Time to call it quits for my Pres.

[Chargein Mabaso]

It is not as easy as like that for him, comrade. If Mugabe goes, there
will be political upheaval in Zimbabwe. It will mean regime change.
His Inner Circle will have to go too. That will be costly. It is the
one forcing him to remain in power. It's a political marriage unti
death. .even if he wants to go but they are definitely telling not to
abandone them. They want Mugabe to rule until his last day on earth so
that they can turn him into a deity like Mandela, Lenin, Mao Tse Tung
to continue ruling and scare political rivals opposing them as
disrespecting Mugabe's last will and vision. This is exactly what is
going in PAC. Letlapa Mphahlele may be forced to remain PAC President
even when the writing is on the wall for him. He will only voluntarily
step down when his Inner Circle in his faction see it it fit. They
know his downfall is also theirs. There will be regime change in the
PAC too. Bangamafanankosi lamadoda! That's it. He cannot abandfone
them at this stage. Not NOW! Thami Plaatjies did that. His reputation
went to zero. His is now a declared traitor to his comrades-in-arms.
Letlapa does not want to be in the same boat. It's about reputation,
nothing more.

Understand Mugabe's dilemma comrade. Those who want him to go are
vying for his inner circle and Zanu- his lehacy too. Remember: When
you fire the CEO, you must also fire his inner circle too. You saw
what happened Egyptian President Mubarak and his inner circle after he
stepped down. They were under severe attack. Hence, the overthrow of
the democratically elected President Morsi. Mubarak's regime made
wrong calculation. Mugabe learned a lesson from President Mubara and
Gaddafi. He doesn want the same to happen to him. I am sure President
Zuma has similar fears. His enemies will call for his arrest for his
role in Matabeleland crisis. Another problem is when Mugabe steps
down, it will be chaos in Zim. Mugabe is a uniting figure for both
Zanu and Zimbabwean people. If I was a Zanu member, I will oppose the
move to force Mugabe to retire without a clear successor.
Unforetunately, such a successor will not be Mugabe 2 You saw what
happened to PAC when we said Makwetu must go without succession plan
in place. It was and is still chaos in PAC till today. We all created
the PAC chaos unaware and unconsciously. That is why we must all bear
the consequences now.  It's our mess. We are to blame. PAC went from
bad to worsE. Same will happen in Zimbabwe. If he dies in power,
Zimbabweans can handle the transition with care and with the sensitive
it deserves unlike if he resigns. Resigning will work in the interest
of the enemies of Zimbabwe. Unfortunate, Zanu is losing good cadres
like Joyce Mujuru in the meantime. Careerists, opportunists and agents
are definitely exploitinbg the situation in Zimbabwe for their own
hidden agendas. The true is, whether we like it or not,  the chaos in
Zim will spill over to South Africa with positive and negative results
depending on the balance of forces in our country. It's a great
challenge, indeed.

On 9/18/15, Sebenzile Mlaza  wrote:
>
>
> Revolutionary greetings to all,
>
> President Robert Mugabe delivered a State of the Nation Speech he had
> previously delivered.
> It's time our good president calls it quits, this is a sign of senility.
>
> --
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Re: [PAYCO] EFF/PAC DECLARATION and COALITION FOR DEMOCRACY DEALS

[Chargein Mabaso]

Comrade, I agree with you on the process that should have been followed by
leadership based on democratic centralism..


On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 7:17 AM, Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi <
nrkgag...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Izwe lethu, open Palm Salutation! Sons and Daughters of Africa
>
> There is a view that interested PAC Branches in Johannesburg Region should
> meet urgently to consider the meaning and implications of the EFF/PAC
> Declaration (attached) dated 22 January 2014.
>
> *The basis for the urgent meeting is the following:-*
>
> 1. The EFF/PAC Declaration section D, states that "to cement unity
> envisaged and in the short-term, the parties have agreed to contest the
> 2014 national and provincial elections under a common electoral platform as
> more fully set out in the Electoral Pact",
>
> 2. This means that there is already a standing agreement finalised and
> sealed behind corridors which subjects PAC to contest 2014 national and
> provincial elections under one umbrella with EFF, such a decision was never
> mandated and there has been no national conference which took such a
> resolution to form a coalition or PACT with political formation such as EFF.
>
> 3. This Electoral Pact and Coalition for Democracy neo-colonial
> parliamentary deals had excluded majority or all PAC members and branches
> as required by the PAC Constitution and Disciplinary Code, principle of
> Democratic Centralism.
>
> 4. The EFF/PAC Declaration aims at the liquidation/dissolution of the PAC
> leading to formation of a new political party. While the Coalition for
> Democracy neo-colonial parliamentary deals amounts to subjecting the PAC to
> some form of co-governing the neo-colonial state
>
> 5. Julius Malema and Floyd Shivambu never made a public apology to PAC and
> PAC Youth while in the ANC, On the 24 March 2010, Floyd Shivambu while
> Spokesperson of ANCYL and Julius Malema made the following public *"The
> ANCYL is disgusted by the lack of political education projected by the PAC
> and its youth structure by distorting the true history and struggles of the
> African National Congress and history of resistance in South Africa. The
> ANCYL is further appalled by the disingenuous attacks from and ignorance of
> the PAC and its youth wing on the President of the ANCYL. The ignorance of
> the PAC squarely explains why it has been polarised into many organisations
> since formation and does not enjoy the support of the people of South
> Africa"*, and the EFF leaders namely Julius Malema and Floyd Shivambu
> further uttered publicly *"The ANC Youth League will never shy away from
> telling the truth about the struggle against repression and will forever
> expose opportunists who claim they participated in the struggles to
> liberate our people, while they in fact distracted the focus of the
> Congress National Liberation Movement. We have a responsibility as this
> generation of youth to liberate our people from narrow Africanist
> propaganda"* 
> *http://www.politicsweb.co.za/politicsweb/view/politicsweb/en/page71656?oid=167735&sn=Detail
> .*
>
>
>
>
> It is shocking that today Malema and Shivambu considers PAC's Pan
> Africanist's ideological orientation revolutionary, and determination to
> advance African Unity based on a socialist programme as revolutionary while
> on the 24th March 2010 not long they referred to PAC as "disingenuous"
> and "ignorant", as a matter of principle we question if these characters
> can be trusted and their sincerity to advance the Pan Africanist Programme
> as articulated in the 1959 Pan Africanist Manifesto and expounded by Pan
> Africanist leaders such as Kwame Nkrumah?
>
>
>
> PAC member M'Afrika Sam Ditshego wrote *"Malema also claimed that PAC
> founding President Robert Sobukwe led protesters to their deaths but in his
> evidence during the hate speech case Malema said the apartheid regime was
> brutal yet in a march led by the PAC where peaceful demonstrators were
> killed by the brutal 'system', he, Wally Serote, Mantashe and Collins
> Chabane ranted about during their testimony, Malema puts on his blinkers
> and blames Sobukwe and the PAC and not the system. The PAC was formed by
> the majority of members of the ANCYL who adopted the Programme of Action in
> 1949, drafted single-handedly by Robert Sobukwe. The Defiance Campaign,
> which was watered down and the 21 March 1960 Anti-pass demonstration were
> part of this programme of action, which the Charterists abandoned for the
> Freedom Charter. The ANC adopted its new constitution with parts of the
> Freedom Charter included in 1957 and abandoned the constitution of the ANC
> of 1912. Basically the ANC of today was formed in 1957"*
>
>
>
> EFF and PAC are ideological world apart, and what should precede any form
> of a Election Pact is ironing and clarifying conceptual and
> contextualization of the African Revolution and what should be the

Re: [PAYCO] EFF/PAC DECLARATION and COALITION FOR DEMOCRACY DEALS

[Chargein Mabaso]

Ma-Afrika

We salute the great efforts to unite all the like-minded revolutionary and
progressive forces to defeat the neocolonialist agenda in our country and
the continent at large.

People should understand the difference between the United Front and a
merger, Mao Tse Tung,a communist, could form a united front even with a
reactionary nationalist like Chiang Kai-shek in China to defeat the
Japanese imperialism .

Leon Trotsky's slogan on United Front says, "March together but strike
separately". .


Izwe Lethu!

Charge-in Mabaso







On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 7:17 AM, Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi <
nrkgag...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Izwe lethu, open Palm Salutation! Sons and Daughters of Africa
>
> There is a view that interested PAC Branches in Johannesburg Region should
> meet urgently to consider the meaning and implications of the EFF/PAC
> Declaration (attached) dated 22 January 2014.
>
> *The basis for the urgent meeting is the following:-*
>
> 1. The EFF/PAC Declaration section D, states that "to cement unity
> envisaged and in the short-term, the parties have agreed to contest the
> 2014 national and provincial elections under a common electoral platform as
> more fully set out in the Electoral Pact",
>
> 2. This means that there is already a standing agreement finalised and
> sealed behind corridors which subjects PAC to contest 2014 national and
> provincial elections under one umbrella with EFF, such a decision was never
> mandated and there has been no national conference which took such a
> resolution to form a coalition or PACT with political formation such as EFF.
>
> 3. This Electoral Pact and Coalition for Democracy neo-colonial
> parliamentary deals had excluded majority or all PAC members and branches
> as required by the PAC Constitution and Disciplinary Code, principle of
> Democratic Centralism.
>
> 4. The EFF/PAC Declaration aims at the liquidation/dissolution of the PAC
> leading to formation of a new political party. While the Coalition for
> Democracy neo-colonial parliamentary deals amounts to subjecting the PAC to
> some form of co-governing the neo-colonial state
>
> 5. Julius Malema and Floyd Shivambu never made a public apology to PAC and
> PAC Youth while in the ANC, On the 24 March 2010, Floyd Shivambu while
> Spokesperson of ANCYL and Julius Malema made the following public *"The
> ANCYL is disgusted by the lack of political education projected by the PAC
> and its youth structure by distorting the true history and struggles of the
> African National Congress and history of resistance in South Africa. The
> ANCYL is further appalled by the disingenuous attacks from and ignorance of
> the PAC and its youth wing on the President of the ANCYL. The ignorance of
> the PAC squarely explains why it has been polarised into many organisations
> since formation and does not enjoy the support of the people of South
> Africa"*, and the EFF leaders namely Julius Malema and Floyd Shivambu
> further uttered publicly *"The ANC Youth League will never shy away from
> telling the truth about the struggle against repression and will forever
> expose opportunists who claim they participated in the struggles to
> liberate our people, while they in fact distracted the focus of the
> Congress National Liberation Movement. We have a responsibility as this
> generation of youth to liberate our people from narrow Africanist
> propaganda"* 
> *http://www.politicsweb.co.za/politicsweb/view/politicsweb/en/page71656?oid=167735&sn=Detail
> .*
>
>
>
>
> It is shocking that today Malema and Shivambu considers PAC's Pan
> Africanist's ideological orientation revolutionary, and determination to
> advance African Unity based on a socialist programme as revolutionary while
> on the 24th March 2010 not long they referred to PAC as "disingenuous"
> and "ignorant", as a matter of principle we question if these characters
> can be trusted and their sincerity to advance the Pan Africanist Programme
> as articulated in the 1959 Pan Africanist Manifesto and expounded by Pan
> Africanist leaders such as Kwame Nkrumah?
>
>
>
> PAC member M'Afrika Sam Ditshego wrote *"Malema also claimed that PAC
> founding President Robert Sobukwe led protesters to their deaths but in his
> evidence during the hate speech case Malema said the apartheid regime was
> brutal yet in a march led by the PAC where peaceful demonstrators were
> killed by the brutal 'system', he, Wally Serote, Mantashe and Collins
> Chabane ranted about during their testimony, Malema puts on his blinkers
> and blames Sobukwe and the PAC and not the system. The PAC was formed by
> the majority of members of the ANCYL who adopted the Programme of Action in
> 1949, drafted single-handedly by Robert Sobukwe. The Defiance Campaign,
> which was watered down and the 21 March 1960 Anti-pass demonstration were
> part of this programme of action, which the Charterists abandoned for th

Re: [PAYCO] Thami on the Freedom Charter SA FM now

[Chargein Mabaso]

Comrades,

What Thami said did not come as surprise to many of  us. He is a typical
political prostitute. What do you expect? He is forced to do so by his
political bosses.

Thami is the same man who used to quote on public platform the analogy one
PAC old cadre, Mtshontshi (Eatern Cape) said as the difference between the
ANC and PAC at the time. According to Thami Plaatjie, comrade Mtshontshi
once said: The difference between the ANC and the PAC is that the ANC is
shit covered in gold and PAC is gold covered in shit (mind my language).
What Thami says now on this issue? Can he say it again?

Comrades, Jesus Christ once said: "What good is a man if he gains the whole
world but suffers the loss of his own soul." [Mathew 16: 26 and Mark 8:37]
Amen! Thami has gained a lot financially out of joining the ANC in exchange
for his soul,like many other political prostitutes in our midst.

Thami has lost his soul for good. He can do anything now. Askaris did the
same during Aparheid. That's it! Let's not bother ourselves about this man
anymore. His open letter to Malema said it all. To join the ANC gravy train
is, literally, to commit political suicide. He is a walking shadow of the
'captured' black leadership. What do you expect him to do? Live Thami alone
to serve his masters to the best of his abilities! History will be the
judge, once again. The wheel of revolution is turning...

Izwe Lethu!




.
































On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 11:21 AM, Hulisani Mmbara wrote:

> Pathetic
> Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!
>
> --
> --
> Sending your posting to payco@googlegroups.com
>
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Re: [PAYCO] Re: Dual Membership

[Chargein Mabaso]

Son  of the soil

I do not understand your reasons as you claim that I know them. I would
like to know if do not mind. Share with us your reservarions.

I personnaly claim to be a loyal member of the PAC of 1959. I also claim
that PAM is the PAC of 1959, not the current PAC under Letlapa Mphahlele.
That is the reason I think genuine Pan Africanists can still join PAM, not
pseudo-Pan Africanists. I personally beleive I cannot join the current PAC
as it stands. On this issue, I raised my concern loud and clear in the last
PAC NEC I attend as a National Secretary for Finance. I still maintain my
position.

For those who were not in that NEC meeting when Letlapa threatened to throw
PAC Basic Documents into the dustbin of history, I told those who attended
that meeting that to me what made the difference between the PAC and the
ANC was the 1959 PAC Basic Documents, especially the PAC Constitution, not
the name PAC or ANC. To me, the PAC or ANC name are irrelevant. They were
irrelevant even to Sobukwe. Before the 1959 PAC Inaugural Conference, they
never knew upfront their party would be PAC. Many of them confessed. They
never broke from the ANC with PAC name in mind. Those who are glued to the
name PAC are like O.R. Tambo who was to married to the name ANC more than
the ANC stand and 1949 Programe of Action.

What made me to join PAC was not the name PAC but the Basic Documents (PAC
ideology, policies, traditon, principles and procedures. Before I joined
PAC, I heard about PAC name but not its Basic Documents. I saw no reason
to join it. The name PAC never influened me to join. I was later influenced
by the PAC documents to join PAC late after I returned to Mthatha where I
was intorduced to the PAC Basic Documents. They made me joined the PAC. To
me, the current PAC is not the PAC of Sobukwe, Mothopeng and Pokela I
joined as young man. That is the reason I cannot join it in its current
form.

Currently, there are many conscious and unconscious charterirsts within the
current PAC. Unfortunately, I am not a charterists. And as such, I cannot
join such elemnts in their treacherous acts. .

Izwe Lethu!

Charge-in Mabaso






On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 11:58 AM, xolani makwedini wrote:

> I think mna Charge-in, that is a bad idea for any person to be a member of
> PAM and PAC and dont I ask me why, u know th reasons
>
>
> On Thursday, September 20, 2012 11:19:54 AM UTC+2, Chargein Mabaso wrote:
>>
>> Comrades,
>>
>> Many people are wondering when the unholy marriage of convenience among
>> the Tripartite Alliance partners (ANC, COSATU and SACP) will come to an end
>> one day. After the Marikana developments, many political commentators
>> expected COSATU congress to resolve to either deliver divorce papers to the
>> ANC or at the least demand the change of leadership at the coming December
>> ANC Conference at Mangaung. They may now be wondering why it is not the
>> case.
>>
>> The truth is one. ANC is nothing without the Tripartite Alliance,
>> especially COSATU. ANC leaders knew this fact long ago when they decided to
>> form the Alliance. They know one thing that no serious-minded political can
>> rule South Africa without exercising political influence (hegemony) over
>> the unions, civic movements, professional bodies, NGOs, churches, etc. They
>> learn this fact from Soviet Hegemony, Gramsci's view on hegemony, US
>> dominance, etc. ANC understood very early the power of dual membership in a
>> political terrain. The same is true of Democratic Alliance (DA). As we
>> know, DA is a product of the alliance (unity) between the DP and NP,
>> possible Solidarity playing secretly the role of COSATU for the DA . The
>> two parties came to understand the power of unity / alliance of the
>> like-minded in the current terrain of struggle in our country. They called
>> for the realignment of all counterrevolutionary forces to contest power
>> against the reformist Tripartite Alliance. But, Pan Africanists, socialist
>> formations and BC forces are the exception to the rule. They do not believe
>> to the idea of unity or alliance politics. May be our attitude explains the
>> reason we marginalized in the new political dispensation. We all became
>> minority parties out of our own choice.
>>
>> Take an example of Julius Malema who is enjoying the support of mine
>> worker as we speak. He has been articulation our position on our behalf
>> because he sees the political vacuum left behind by the PAC in the New
>> Democracy. He is exploiting it, for good or bad reasons. Many people told
>> us time and again that voters do not want land and nationalization of the
>> commanding heights of our economy. They want only jobs but not land and
>> equitable distribution of wealth in this count

Re: [PAYCO] Emailing: 6 MAY RUSTENBURG REVIEW FINAL EDIT.pdf

[Chargein Mabaso]

Comrade Nariuus

Such an allegation cannot be true.

It is not possible that one individual can hold so many key, critical
roles at same time and still do justice to all of them? At the end,
it's disservice to all of them. The allegation explains why all those
structures play no meaningful role in South African politics. We
always wonder where is NACTU when COSATU is shining and stealing the
show. The SG is everywhere as a ''busy'' leader (the engine of the
party) ending up achieving none.

Joseph Stalin tried to centralise power to himself. The results are
now part of recorded history. Are we breeding Stalinists within the
Pan Africanist fold? Time will tell, comrades.

Izwe Lethu!

Charge-in Mabaso




On 8/31/12, Tongogara Ndima  wrote:
>  MoAfrika Moloto
>
> Having followed the debates, some of us thought that Cde Narius Moloto with
> the grocery of positions he holds (namely 1. PAC General Secretary 2. NACTU
> Geneal Secretary 3. BCAWU General Secretary), you will also share with
> comrades what actions had been taken to intervene in the Marikana
> Massacre:-
>
> *Firstly as PAC General Secretary:-.*
>
>
> *Secondly as NACTU General Secretary :-.*
>
>
> *Thirdly as BCAWU General Secretary:-*
>
> And also how do explain the fact that AMCU explained itself as being
> politically independent?
>
> Surely, it will be pharisist to accuse Africanists as being "armed chair
> revolutionaries" when your office and particulalry yourself you do not show
> an form of the mingling with affected workers in Marikana.
>
> We show COSATU took a stance, ANC took a stance and also COSATU structures
> as far as Western Cape raised thier voice? Comrade Tembalani asked as to
> what is the state of affiars in NACTU?
>
> so son of the soil can you share with comrades, i wish you should not
> insult me!
>
> Izwe
> Ndima Tongagara
>
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Re: [PAYCO] What the masses will look for in choosing leadership for SA, as they overthrow the ruling regime!!

[Chargein Mabaso]

Comrades,

I did not have time to contribute to the question raised by cde
Mashao. That is, the question of revolution or efficiency? I hope I'll
have time to write something to contribute to the discussion.

It is now enough to state that the same question faced V.I. Lenin and
Mao Tse Tung in their own countries. Even Trosky addressed the same
question too.

Lenin and Mao came up with terminology of tailism, commandism, mass
line(''From the masses, to the masses''), protracted war, quick-
victory, impetuosity (impatience), etc to explain their stance and
solution to the question.  Comrades must refer to their contribution
on the question.

The question reminded Mao the parable of the sheeperd and the sheep.
The shepherd has three options: to lead the sheep at the
forefront(which is uncommon), or to drive the sheep from behind(which
is common), or to lead the sheep from the middle.

It is clear which leadership alternatives are adopted by PAC
(including PAM), ANC, DA, etc in South African politics.

Mao concluded and said there are three leadership alternatives
available to lead the masses, namely, to match at their head and lead
them, or to trail behind them, gesticulating and criticising them, or
to stand in their way or oppose them. He further says, ''Every leader
is free to choose, but events will force you to make the choice
quickly.''

Mao also used the analogy of the fish and water to describe the
intereactions between revolutionaries and masses. He said the
revoluionary is like  the fish and the masses are like the water. lf
the water is polluted, e.g., with oil, the fish will survive. It will
die.

Comrades, allow me to rest my case as vaguely as it is. I hope cde
Nkrumah and others will respond to the question too. I hope I will
time explain myself further.

This is real a critical question we have been avoiding to answer for
some time within the Pan Africanist fold.

Izwe Lethu!

Charge-in Mabso
0710203554



On 7/31/12, Walter Molapo  wrote:
> Comrades!
>
> I equally find Matome's contributions interesting and befitting our
> thinking. While I agree with Matome on the two kind of leaderships for which
> our people might choose which one to follow, I think the third option
> available for our people and which is retrogressive and unsustainable is
> that of "Populist Rupture", I believe that Azania might be headed for this
> type of leadership, trusted by our people on the bases that the current
> state failed to respond to popular demands.
> The fact that people are getting annoyed on daily bases by untrustworthy
> political parties shall lead to manifestation of a new populist
> identity/order.
> I support the suggestion by comrade Matome that we need to converge, debate
> and graft our location&purpose in the society, we need to tell the people of
> Africa that our intentions are to lead a revolution against the current
> system.
> If we do not indicates this to the people now, our own people shall rejected
> PAC like all other political parties when they resort to other forms of
> leaderships.
>
> Lastly, it is evident that our people are already in a leaderless
> revolution, the service delivery protest in almost all townships in Azania
> are indicative of the aforesaid. Its unfortunate that if this already
> persistent revolution can gain momentum and unseat ANC in the absence of
> us(PAC) we will be lead by a revolution of which the motive forces are not
> necessarily class dynamics and political ideology.
>
> I suggest, therefore, that PAYCO discuss this matter during its NEC meeting
> and take a lead in arranging a platform on which a way forward on how we
> engage our people.
> I further propose that progressive former Leaders of PAYCO, PAC, PASMA and
> those proposed by Tembelani get invited.
>
>
> Afrika Our Land!
>
>
> Walter Molapo
> Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device
> 
> From: tembelani xundu 
> Sender: 
> Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2012 22:29:49 -0700
> To: payco@googlegroups.com
> ReplyTo: 
> Subject: Re: [PAYCO] What the masses will look for in choosing leadership
> for SA, as they overthrow the ruling regime!!
>
> Comrades
>
> I find Matome's comment very intriguing and spot on. I suggest that few
> Comrades should lead a discussion on the so called 'national democratic
> revolution' as espoused by the charterist camp (ANC,SACP & COSATU) and the
> Permanent Revolution (championed by Trosky). The loose combination of
> national liberation agaisnt settler colonialism and establishment of a
> democratic order is what easily lead to a religiuos embrace of the two stage
> theory and the coining of documents like first and second transition by the
> charterist. The whole liberation movement is now wrongly defined as
> proponents of this NDR.The establishment of a socialist democracy is a
> single process that cannot be achieved over night, and means, in our old but
> relevant revolutionary jargon that the colonial apartheid system cannot be
> reformed bu

Re: [PAYCO] What the masses will look for in choosing leadership for SA, as they overthrow the ruling regime!!

[Chargein Mabaso]

Comrades,

I did not have time to contribute to the question raised by cde
Mashao. That is, the question of revolution or efficiency? I hope I'll
have time to write something to contribute to the discussion.

It is now enough to state that the same question faced V.I. Lenin and
Mao Tse Tung in their own countries. Even Trosky addressed the same
question too.

Lenin and Mao came up with terminology of tailism, commandism, mass
line(''From the masses, to the masses''), protracted war, quick-
victory, impetuosity (impatience), etc to explain their stance and
solution to the question.  Comrades must refer to their contribution
on the question.

The question reminded Mao the parable of the sheeperd and the sheep.
The shepherd has three options: to lead the sheep at the
forefront(which is uncommon), or to drive the sheep from behind(which
is common), or to lead the sheep from the middle.

It is clear which leadership alternatives are adopted by PAC
(including PAM), ANC, DA, etc in South African politics.

Mao concluded and said there are three leadership alternatives
available to lead the masses, namely, to match at their head and lead
them, or to trail behind them, gesticulating and criticising them, or
to stand in their way or oppose them. He further says, ''Every leader
is free to choose, but events will force you to make the choice
quickly.''

Mao also used the analogy of the fish and water to describe the
intereactions between revolutionaries and masses. He said the
revoluionary is like  the fish and the masses are like the water. lf
the water is polluted, e.g., with oil, the fish will survive. It will
die.

Comrades, allow me to rest my case as vaguely as it is. I hope cde
Nkrumah and others will respond to the question too. I hope I will
time explain myself further.

This is real a critical question we have been avoiding to answer for
some time within the Pan Africanist fold.

Izwe Lethu!

Charge-in Mabso
0710203554



On 7/31/12, Walter Molapo  wrote:
> Comrades!
>
> I equally find Matome's contributions interesting and befitting our
> thinking. While I agree with Matome on the two kind of leaderships for which
> our people might choose which one to follow, I think the third option
> available for our people and which is retrogressive and unsustainable is
> that of "Populist Rupture", I believe that Azania might be headed for this
> type of leadership, trusted by our people on the bases that the current
> state failed to respond to popular demands.
> The fact that people are getting annoyed on daily bases by untrustworthy
> political parties shall lead to manifestation of a new populist
> identity/order.
> I support the suggestion by comrade Matome that we need to converge, debate
> and graft our location&purpose in the society, we need to tell the people of
> Africa that our intentions are to lead a revolution against the current
> system.
> If we do not indicates this to the people now, our own people shall rejected
> PAC like all other political parties when they resort to other forms of
> leaderships.
>
> Lastly, it is evident that our people are already in a leaderless
> revolution, the service delivery protest in almost all townships in Azania
> are indicative of the aforesaid. Its unfortunate that if this already
> persistent revolution can gain momentum and unseat ANC in the absence of
> us(PAC) we will be lead by a revolution of which the motive forces are not
> necessarily class dynamics and political ideology.
>
> I suggest, therefore, that PAYCO discuss this matter during its NEC meeting
> and take a lead in arranging a platform on which a way forward on how we
> engage our people.
> I further propose that progressive former Leaders of PAYCO, PAC, PASMA and
> those proposed by Tembelani get invited.
>
>
> Afrika Our Land!
>
>
> Walter Molapo
> Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device
> 
> From: tembelani xundu 
> Sender: 
> Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2012 22:29:49 -0700
> To: payco@googlegroups.com
> ReplyTo: 
> Subject: Re: [PAYCO] What the masses will look for in choosing leadership
> for SA, as they overthrow the ruling regime!!
>
> Comrades
>
> I find Matome's comment very intriguing and spot on. I suggest that few
> Comrades should lead a discussion on the so called 'national democratic
> revolution' as espoused by the charterist camp (ANC,SACP & COSATU) and the
> Permanent Revolution (championed by Trosky). The loose combination of
> national liberation agaisnt settler colonialism and establishment of a
> democratic order is what easily lead to a religiuos embrace of the two stage
> theory and the coining of documents like first and second transition by the
> charterist. The whole liberation movement is now wrongly defined as
> proponents of this NDR.The establishment of a socialist democracy is a
> single process that cannot be achieved over night, and means, in our old but
> relevant revolutionary jargon that the colonial apartheid system cannot be
> reformed bu

Re: [PAYCO] Rejecting the infantile leadership claim !!

[Chargein Mabaso]

Comrades,

I received an sms from an anonymous sender whose cellphone
is+27836438535  responding to my earlier contribution to this group.
The sender tried to appeal to me to tone down a bit on the ongoing
discussion regarding the coming congress. He / she was ashamed to
respond to my email out of fear of losing face in the process. I
responded accordingly to these mischievious elements. I have just
received a silly sms at 01:28 am (after midnight) from the same
desperate forces of darkness who have sleepless nights busy working
around the clock for an evil mission to destroy PAC for their sinister
agenda.

I appeal to these faceless individuals to come out to the open and
identify themselves by responding directly to my email. I want to deal
with them accordingly, once and for all. I cannot continue dealing
with faceless political demagogues who thrive out of anonymous threats
and smear campaign for too long. They must come out of their cover. I
know how to deal with enemy agents like them. They must ask others in
the former Transkei and throughout the country. I dealt with them
according in the same way in the past. I will do it, again and again.
Son of the soil, your iron fist in a velvet glove will not help you
this time. You are on your own.

I hope the senders are not dubious  characters  I met in Cape Town for
I have good news to deliver to them. I waited for them to wage their
smear campaign against me on a public platform for too long, not
behind my backs as they did in the past. I was trained by PAC not to
respond to gossip and heresy.

During the dark days of Apartheid, I was taught by seasoned PAC
members at Umtata in former Transkei how to ''stir water to catch
fish''. I caught many enemy agents with their pants down. I want to
undress these doggy characterd in public, once and for all. I want to
skin them alive. I waited too long for you, comrades. Please respond
to my email directly and include your two dirty sms you have send to
me. Do not be shy of your dark side in this public platform.

Before and after Qwaqwa congress, I received many death threats from
the enemies of the African people and their running dogs. I dealt with
them accordingly.  They never shakened me. I survived many
assassination attempts from enemy agents and their handlers in the
past.

You advised Letlapa to violate PAC constitution, to pass decree and to
expel me from the NEC and PAC. You, cdes Teenage Nyhontso, Lulamile
Ntonzima, Siya Ndamane and Mampane, delivered in person my letter of
suspension from NEC written by Letlapa at my flat infront of my family
as his cronies doing his dirty work. Today, you pretend to be holy
messiahs. You can fool others

Comrades, surrender, you are surrounded! You can run but not hide for
too long!

Izwe Lethu!

Charge-in Mabaso
Former PASO Veteran
0710203554


On 7/10/12, Chargein Mabaso  wrote:
> Comrades,
>
> The ongoing discussion about attending the coming congress to be
> convened in violation of the Party constitution reminds us Robert
> Mangaliso Sobukhwe. ''Prof'' once said to summed up the ongoing
> intellectual wavering, ''Watch our movements keenly and if you see any
> signs of 'broadmindedness' or 'reasonableness' in us, or if you hear
> us talk of practical experience as a modifier of man's views, denounce
> us as traitors to Africa,''
>
> Ma-Afrika, a principle can neither be bent nor shelved. It is wrong to
> attend an unconstitutional congress. An unconstitutional congress will
> elect an unconstitutional NEC. Two wrongs do not make a right.
>
> There is only one conclusion to make; umsila wembulu uphutshulukile
> kwi comrades (They are wolves-in-sheep skins. They are now showing
> their true colours).
>
> Sobukwe says, ''asazani sakwazana edabini''. We are beginning to know
> each other now. Ma-Afrika, false pretence do not last long. You cannot
> fool people for too long.
>
> Jesus Christ once said, ''He that is not with Me is against Me.'' Your
> dubious moves proved Jesus Christ correct.
>
> Izwe Lethu!
>
> Charge-in Mabaso
> 0710203554
>
> On 7/10/12, Matome Mashao  wrote:
>> The compounding turmoil, organic and structural, that continues to eat
>> away
>> on
>> the history, current position and future potential of the PAC is
>> manifestly
>> profound. The recent infantile self-show of hands for leadership, TO LEAD
>> US,
>> is the clearest indicator of this turmoil and the extent to which the
>> party
>> is
>> being undermined daily and pitched at infantile levels of the highest
>> order.
>> I
>> have been hesitant to deal with this matter firstly because its
>> protagonists
>> are what Lenin calls infants (political) and secondly because it ought to

Re: [PAYCO] Rejecting the infantile leadership claim !!

[Chargein Mabaso]

Comrades,

The ongoing discussion about attending the coming congress to be
convened in violation of the Party constitution reminds us Robert
Mangaliso Sobukhwe. ''Prof'' once said to summed up the ongoing
intellectual wavering, ''Watch our movements keenly and if you see any
signs of 'broadmindedness' or 'reasonableness' in us, or if you hear
us talk of practical experience as a modifier of man's views, denounce
us as traitors to Africa,''

Ma-Afrika, a principle can neither be bent nor shelved. It is wrong to
attend an unconstitutional congress. An unconstitutional congress will
elect an unconstitutional NEC. Two wrongs do not make a right.

There is only one conclusion to make; umsila wembulu uphutshulukile
kwi comrades (They are wolves-in-sheep skins. They are now showing
their true colours).

Sobukwe says, ''asazani sakwazana edabini''. We are beginning to know
each other now. Ma-Afrika, false pretence do not last long. You cannot
fool people for too long.

Jesus Christ once said, ''He that is not with Me is against Me.'' Your
dubious moves proved Jesus Christ correct.

Izwe Lethu!

Charge-in Mabaso
0710203554

On 7/10/12, Matome Mashao  wrote:
> The compounding turmoil, organic and structural, that continues to eat away
> on
> the history, current position and future potential of the PAC is manifestly
> profound. The recent infantile self-show of hands for leadership, TO LEAD
> US,
> is the clearest indicator of this turmoil and the extent to which the party
> is
> being undermined daily and pitched at infantile levels of the highest order.
> I
> have been hesitant to deal with this matter firstly because its
> protagonists
> are what Lenin calls infants (political) and secondly because it ought to
> be
> openly seen as deceitful by all party members. I have since decided that
> there
> is a huge danger in letting untruths go unchallenged and I undertake almost
> effortlessly to show the weakness of the dream (like Martin Luther s ‘I
> have
> a dream’ or Obama s ‘yes we can”) and the smallness in substance of the
> protagonists of this idea. Just before I do this I want to remind you of
> Gaddafi s address to the UN Assembly. He had said we must ‘today’ speak
> the truth openly and directly, and truth he did speak before he was
> martyred.
> There is an irreversible danger in skating around a wrong idea because
> before
> long, it becomes gospel to innocent and perhaps new members of our movement.
>
>
> We have a duty to speak the truth fiercely and this at least is what the
> PAC
> taught us, those of us who grew up in the PAC and have had the rare
> privilege
> to lead its structures even at Branch community level. PAC members have
> always
> taken a position and Sobukwe himself did not think appeasement is any model
> for
> leadership. It is this obsession with appeasement that has led to the 1994
> settlement. When those of our forebears who faced death daily could not
> model
> PAC on appeasement why should we tolerate some history-less characterless
> group to model our party this way disguising it as some indescribable
> concept
> of ‘principled unity’.  Because most of you on this mediocre path were
> completely uninvolved in PAC obviously until when you needed some social
> engagement and thought PAC provided such leisure, you must ask us and many
> others how we formed PAC branches and how many times we have been offered
> opportunities in exchange for behaving like yourselves (convenience
> masters)
> and how we rejected these just as must now reject your tendencies.
>
> The most dangerous attack to the revolution and its vanguard is that which
> comes from within: from fellas who refuse to learn the PAC and negate the
> need
> to grow character for leadership. We must combat this with the ruthlessness
> equal to how we treat an enemy. Look at the damage done to the party by
> characters like Godi, De Lille, Thami and many more others who masqueraded
> amongst us.
>
> We are all duty-bound to stand combat ready to defend the PAC. And
> tendencies
> employed by sell outs are the same everywhere. They use foreign terms and
> words that cannot be pinned anywhere, and this is also because on the one
> hand
> they stand for nothing and on the other they stand for the opposite of the
> party. Because I do not live for ovation I will say things the way I see
> them
> and perhaps the way they are at different levels. The choice to use neutral
> colourless words is as dangerous to the party and the revolution as the
> ones
> advancing the dream type of a party. The PAC cannot be led by Lindiwe
> Mazibuko
> kind of characters who think that our problems are school based and a result
> of
> inefficiency. Our problems are systemic first and foremost. We cannot keep
> or
> reform the system, it must be overthrown.
>
> Anyone who a few weeks ago spoke against congress and all of a sudden now
> speaks for congress, to go to their level, is spineless and apolitical. The
> idea being peddled is as moribund

Re: [PAYCO] Fw: Are you a delegate in national...

[Chargein Mabaso]

Comrades,

PAC was turned into a joke not only by Letlapa. The problem can be
best traced back to Thohoyandou congress. PAC crisis reached its
climax at Qwaqwa congress. It was for the'first time PAC congress
elected only seven NEC members (President, Deputy President, Secretary
- General, Deputy Sec-Gen, Finance Secretary, Nat Org and Nat
Chairperson) instead of all  NEC members in line with PAC
Constitution. Other NEC members were appointed by the President in
violation of the PAC Constitution.

Letlapa just put the last nail to the PAC coffin. But, the PAC idea
cannot be burried in a coffin. It lives on, with or without the PAC
carcass. They can destroy PAC name but not its ideology, the Pan
Africanist legacy of Robert Mangaliso Sobukwe. His legacy will  live
forever! Its realisation can only be delayed.

Izwe Lethu!

Charge-in Mabaso

On 7/2/12, tembelani xundu  wrote:
> Son of the Soil I would be saying you are joking if I did not know the
> extent to which we are in trouble. My honest view is that this is a clear
> reflection that we are not yet serious about the PAC AND THE AZANIAN PEOPLE.
> I hope this does not succeed but if it does we will just go along just like
> we seem to be doing with Letlapa. Comrade Sbu must still develop within the
> leadership of the PAC not as s president, GS, Organiser or so if we are
> serious.
>
> Tembelani Xundu
>
> - Original Message -
> From: Hulisani Mmbara 
> To: PAYCO GOOGLE GROUP PAYCO GOOGLE GROUP 
> Cc:
> Sent: Sunday, July 1, 2012 10:45 PM
> Subject: [PAYCO] Fw: Are you a delegate in national...
>
>
> -- SMS --
> From: +278200701103488
> Received: Jul 1, 2012 21:49
> Subject: Are you a delegate in national...
>
> Are you a delegate in national congress in Butterworth? My branch vote 4
> Sbusiso Xaba to be PAC President. We request support your branch. More info
> 0825164664.
> Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!
>
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Re: [PAYCO] THE PAC IS NOT READY FOR A NATIONAL CONGRESS

[Chargein Mabaso]

Comrade Narius

If you are an honest and loyal PAC member interested in uniting and
rebuilding PAC as you claim, you are expected to respect and comply
with the PAC Constitution all the time. You are also expected to draw
lessons from past PAC precedences in resolving its problems and past
PAC successes and failures and its legacy as a Party. I am referring,
for example, to the role played by Pokela in exile to unite and
rebuilt the Party, how the PAC congress was convened after unbanning
OF PAC without the PAC NEC in place as per constitution and the
convening of the PAC Convetion in Pretoria.

People who want to unite and build the PAC follow in the footsteps of
Pokela and Makwetu who allowed the convetion to convene even when it
was not catered for in the PAC constitution. If you are still an
honest and loyal PAC, why are you are a stumbling block  to
initiatives intended to rescue this great Party of Robert Mangaliso
Sobukwe? Only enemies can stand against the unity and rebuilding of
PAC so that it does not take its rightful place in SA politics, even
when the ANC failed to deliver on its election promises for many
times. If you are not, comrade, please be on right side of history and
work with all PAC members who are calling for an all-inclusive
solution to PAC problems. Don't push them away. You know the damaged
made by the decree and orders in the PAC under comrade Letlapa.  PAC
is not your private property, son of the soil. It belongs to all PAC
members.

I expect you to talk to comrade Letlapa as a comrade to humble himself
and accept the vote of no convidence against his leadership and step
aside to allow the process to go smoothly so that comrades can forgive
him in future in a comradeship spirit and forget what he did to the
Party. He thought the route he took will save PAC but it did the
opposite. He can be indemnified for his acts if he humbles himself to
the Party. We forgave whites for centuries of brutality. They numbled
themselves so far. It was lesson not for him alone but for all of us.
We all make mistakes. He is human like us too. He makes mistakes.

If you will convene the PAC congress as planned, more harm will be
done to the PAC than before.

 I am making my input as a PAM members for two reasons. Firstly, PAM
is the PAC of R.M. Sobukwe. Secondly, we share the same ancestors -
Sobukwe, Mothopeng and Pokela.
M-Afrika, it is true that a divided house will never stand. The saying
also applies to Pan Africanists too.
Let us spend our time in the future talking about the realignment of
Africanist and socialist forces within PAC, ANC, AZAPO, PAM, APC, etc
to come together and to form the revolutionary alternative to the
current neocolonial alternative in SA.

Today, Julius Malema is expelled from the ANC for articulating our
political stand on nationalisation and the land question on an ANC
platform. He has now no political home to go to. Where is PAC of 53
years old. He has raised the land question in SA back to the center
stage. I agree he is a rough diamond. At least, he is a diamond.  He
only needs to be polished by good mentors to be an asset.

Izwe Lethu!

Charge-in Mabaso
0710203554





On 4/26/12, Narius Moloto  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> The PAC constitution currently in force imposes the National Congress shall
> be held every third year from the last one. This is not optional, it is
> mandatory. The question and process of uniting the party cannot be linked
> with this constitutional requirement unless otherwise decided by the
> congress itself.
>
>
>
> The congress of the PAC  constituted by delegates from party branches are
> the supreme organ of the organization and shall ultimately be the one to
> decide and their decision shall be binding on all disciplined members of the
> PAC. In case where there are different opinions and feelings on an issue,
> the constitutional provision relevant to a subject matter decides.
>
>
>
> Branches are expected to make submissions, resolutions, nominations and any
> other issue they feel the PAC Congress must address. This is the time we
> must spend our energy and time doing. The fate of the party cannot be
> decided outside the congress of the PAC. Differing views, opinions and
> feelings are part of organizational life because there different people in
> the organization.
>
>
>
> It must be clears through that PAC Congress scheduled for 14-15 July 2012 is
> decoded and will go ahead as decided, nothing will change. What is not clear
> though is why the congress should not go ahead. What is suggested now why it
> was not suggested all along? Are people discovering that they don't have
> branches and the need time to go and create some? Are people realizing now
> that they are not members in good standing and cannot just pay now and
> attend the congress in July?
>
>
>
> The congress is not for people at the helm of the party but for the members
> of the party but for the members of the party from the branches. Congress is
> the only opportuni

Re: [PAYCO] Thoughts on the leadership challenge in the party

[Chargein Mabaso]

M-Afrika, your input is inspiring.

Our three greatest mistakes are:
1. Our Party is abandoned by its own cadres, its backbone. Private
family matters count  most to most cadres today. Revolution comes
second. There are no professional revolutionaries who take revolution
as their fulltime profession. They are either partime or in long
political leaves. In the past, the Party had those who were married to
the revolution rather than their wives. Their families came second. No
one can deny that fact. Today, family comes first. Look at ANC, there
are officials who take ANC activities as their fulltime profession.
Every day, they work for ANC for 24 hours:  There are no such cadres
in the Party.
2. Primacy of a leader, not a programme. In a revolution, the
programme comes first and then the leadership to lead that programme.
Out'of selected collective leadership, the leader of the moment is
elected among other leaders, not because he / she is the best (No
Messiah mentality). We repeat the same mistake again and again and
expect different results.

Programme serves as  a roadmap for the Party. The programme is used to
measure the consistence of leadership. New members join the programme
(campaign) before joining the Party in great numbers. For example, the
Scrap Students' Debt Campaign (Free Education Campaign) could help our
students to recruit easily  within the stident body, whether the
campaign wins or not. We did it in the past for PASO and APLA. We can
do it again and again. To us, it did not matter who led us. What was
important to us, was the unfolding programme at the time. Today, we
are all fighting to be leaders. Why? Because leaders do not lead
revolitionary programmes. They are now bosses and not servants of
members. They are not serving us, they are serving themselves and
their hidden agendas (bosses). They do not account to us but to
themselves. We did not give them programmes (performance contracts /
targets) to deliver on. They  either do as they like or do nothing at
all. We are breeding dictators in the Party deliberately. When the
President was violating the Basic Documents, we did nothing because
only six NEC members were elected at Qwaqwa congress. The rest of NEC
members were his loyal appointees, and not elected by congress. They
had no independent constitutional powers given to them by congress to
challenge Letlapa. They were disadvantaged like all appointees of the
leader. That was the failure of the congress, not theirs. Normally,
fully fledged constitutionally elected NEC have the powers  to suspend
ill-disciplined President as the highest decision-making body between
congresses / conferences just like any NEC member. The President is
not above the NEC. Clause 14.2 of the DC does not make the President
above the NEC at all. But, our NEC was  not capacitated to exercise
its powers with ease under those conditions.
3.  We like renting and recycling leaders. How many times we
parachuted leaders from nowhere and from long political leaves and
give them blank cheques to write their programmes. We even rented
leaders who never led even at a branch, region, province and/or
national level of the Party and/or its component structures. People
who know nothing about Party procedures, tradition, constitution, DC,
democratic centralism, collective leadership, criticism,  etc and
expect them to lead us successfully.

We are the ones to be blamed for the current mess in the Party.

Last, in a revolution, there is no place for retired party cadres.
Zeph Mothopeng led PAC as a fultime professional revolutionary until
his last day. How old was Ayatollah Khomein of Iran when he led the
revolution to victory?

Age is no excuse for joining them, consciously or unconsciously. The
current neocolonial agenda is fluorishing because we allowed it
through our consent for convinience.

Let us all agree we have betrayed the revolution, both individually
and collectively, as cadres of this great Party of Robert Mangaliso
Sobukwe.

Sobukwe, Zeph and Pokela are ashamed of us all, with no exception. The
baton was passed to our generation by them. It is still with the Party
cadres. The whole Party now cannot move forward. It's shame!

Comrade, you are right.

'He that is not with me is against me.' --- Jesus Christ

Izwe Lethu!

Charge-in Mabaso
0710203554



On 4/7/12, Hulisani Mmbara  wrote:
> Dear Comrades,
>
> Many efforts have been made to reposition the PAC, especially dealing with
> the leadership question. One such effort is the PAC Indaba held in Orlando
> yesterday, which also doubled as the 53rd Anniversary celebrations of the
> formation of the party. Tremendous work has been done and continues. In this
> regard, efforts of party members should be commended.
>
> As we go about resolving the leadership crisis in the party, we must also
> ask the fundamental question which is at the heart of regression in the
> party, that is the lack of ideological clarity, strategy, vision and a
> programme of action. What

Re: RE: [PAYCO] SOBUKWE WILL NEVER DIE

[Chargein Mabaso]

M-Afrika. You are raising a good question for comrades to respond.

It is enough for me to say Pan Africanists are socialists, not capitalists.
We reject economic exploitation of the many for the benefit of the
few. We are for a planned economy as opposed to market economy
(capitalism). Sobukwe too talked of a Socialist Government and Kwame
Nkrumah referred to an All-African Socialist Government. Nkrumah went
to say we are for  Scientific Socialism, not ''African Socialism''. In
his book 'African Socialism Revised'

Izwe Lethu!

Chargein Mabaso
0710203554


On 4/3/12, Mduduzi Sibeko  wrote:
> Cde's Xaba, Ndebele and Seroke
>
> I perceive that Africanists espouse communist sentiments, despite the fact
> that we don't have such tags. Every time, we write about social
> inequalities, we argue that the current  social milieu advances the
> interests of the minority. I have been wrestling about thinking of a better
> panacea to address the social ills of society in modern times, or to put it
> simple, ever since the capitalist system was inaugurated in the preceding
> centuries. The answer I get: is that wealth must be distributed equally.
> However, I find difficulties in finding a suitable solution, given that the
> communist system experiment in the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe failed.
> Nikita Khrushchev after the death of Joseph Stalin was naïve, thinking that
> communism was a better way of living once it has been de-Stalinized. But
> latter, his reforms fell short in addressing the problem between the rich
> and the poor. I believe that the capitalist system will thrive despite our
> continued aversion to it. What is the Africanist-socialist democracy that
> Prof Sobukwe spoke about ?or may the question should be, if the PAC  gets
> into the power, how will it address the socio-economic disparities created
> by apartheid. Are we communist in disguise ?
>
> From: payco@googlegroups.com [mailto:payco@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of
> Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi
> Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2012 12:28 PM
> To: payco@googlegroups.com
> Cc: Sbu Xaba; Jaki Seroke
> Subject: Re: RE: [PAYCO] SOBUKWE WILL NEVER DIE
>
>
> The functioning of democracy within the free market system which inherently
> permits a few to control the means of production and distribution will
> logically result to democarcy serving few. Therefore social engineering will
> be premised on the basis of an elitist system whereat the majority are
> subjugated to servants or modern days slavery, neo colonialism arises as a
> tentacle which serves the interest of the dominant mode of production and
> distribution. In Azania the seventy percent of the national wealth is
> concentrated in less twenty percent of the population. Thus 1994 democratic
> dispensation has been a reformist change whereat the base namely control of
> the mode of production and distribution remains intact including the state
> machinery remained untransformed however white faces were replaced by Black
> faces, Amilcar Cabral on the Weapon of Theory Havana document has vividly
> elucidated this perspective. However Cabral goes further that African
> liberation organisations are not engaging on theoratical debates and
> discussions on the matters, it therefore follows that the prevalent
> political theoratical and ideological defiency within the movement
> demostrated by popular phrase mongering and sloganeering confirms Cabral
> analysis.
>
> Sekou Toure once argued that the African people need a movement that is
> organisation for with, within and through organisation, a crucial space is
> exploited progressively to create a consciouss mass which will and can act
> systematically with a defined sense of purpose and result. Structures are
> formed to systematically pursue organisational political programme. Weak and
> poor organisation creates space for neocolonialism and exploitation of the
> working masses to prevail. It is only in poorly organised and weak
> formations that self serving leadership prevails and the downtrodden &
> toiling masses used as a ladder for greener pastures consequently such
> organisations will continuosly breed such type of leadership. Blame less
> leaders for they are a product of organisation, to alter the cause of events
> through proper reorganisation the necessary leadership with integrity and
> selfless character having embraced revolutionary discipline and willing to
> subject oneself to the will and aspiration of people will emerge
> organically.
>
> Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi
> Cellphone: 0749226361
> Email: nrkgag...@gmail.com<mailto:nrkgag...@gmail.com>
>
> On 3 Apr 2012 11:57, "Sebenzile Mlaza"
> mailto:sebenzi...@raf.co.za>> wrote:
> Revolutionary greetings sons 

Re: RE: [PAYCO] SOBUKWE WILL NEVER DIE

[Chargein Mabaso]

M-Afrika. You are raising a good question for comrades to respond.

It is enough for me to say Pan Africanists are socialists, not capitalists.
We reject economic exploitation of the many for the benefit of the
few. We are for a planned economy as opposed to market economy
(capitalism). Sobukwe too talked of a Socialist Government and Kwame
Nkrumah referred to an All-African Socialist Government. Nkrumah went
to say we are for  Scientific Socialism, not ''African Socialism''. In
his book 'African Socialism Revised'

Izwe Lethu!

Chargein Mabaso
0710203554


On 4/3/12, Mduduzi Sibeko  wrote:
> Cde's Xaba, Ndebele and Seroke
>
> I perceive that Africanists espouse communist sentiments, despite the fact
> that we don't have such tags. Every time, we write about social
> inequalities, we argue that the current  social milieu advances the
> interests of the minority. I have been wrestling about thinking of a better
> panacea to address the social ills of society in modern times, or to put it
> simple, ever since the capitalist system was inaugurated in the preceding
> centuries. The answer I get: is that wealth must be distributed equally.
> However, I find difficulties in finding a suitable solution, given that the
> communist system experiment in the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe failed.
> Nikita Khrushchev after the death of Joseph Stalin was naïve, thinking that
> communism was a better way of living once it has been de-Stalinized. But
> latter, his reforms fell short in addressing the problem between the rich
> and the poor. I believe that the capitalist system will thrive despite our
> continued aversion to it. What is the Africanist-socialist democracy that
> Prof Sobukwe spoke about ?or may the question should be, if the PAC  gets
> into the power, how will it address the socio-economic disparities created
> by apartheid. Are we communist in disguise ?
>
> From: payco@googlegroups.com [mailto:payco@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of
> Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi
> Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2012 12:28 PM
> To: payco@googlegroups.com
> Cc: Sbu Xaba; Jaki Seroke
> Subject: Re: RE: [PAYCO] SOBUKWE WILL NEVER DIE
>
>
> The functioning of democracy within the free market system which inherently
> permits a few to control the means of production and distribution will
> logically result to democarcy serving few. Therefore social engineering will
> be premised on the basis of an elitist system whereat the majority are
> subjugated to servants or modern days slavery, neo colonialism arises as a
> tentacle which serves the interest of the dominant mode of production and
> distribution. In Azania the seventy percent of the national wealth is
> concentrated in less twenty percent of the population. Thus 1994 democratic
> dispensation has been a reformist change whereat the base namely control of
> the mode of production and distribution remains intact including the state
> machinery remained untransformed however white faces were replaced by Black
> faces, Amilcar Cabral on the Weapon of Theory Havana document has vividly
> elucidated this perspective. However Cabral goes further that African
> liberation organisations are not engaging on theoratical debates and
> discussions on the matters, it therefore follows that the prevalent
> political theoratical and ideological defiency within the movement
> demostrated by popular phrase mongering and sloganeering confirms Cabral
> analysis.
>
> Sekou Toure once argued that the African people need a movement that is
> organisation for with, within and through organisation, a crucial space is
> exploited progressively to create a consciouss mass which will and can act
> systematically with a defined sense of purpose and result. Structures are
> formed to systematically pursue organisational political programme. Weak and
> poor organisation creates space for neocolonialism and exploitation of the
> working masses to prevail. It is only in poorly organised and weak
> formations that self serving leadership prevails and the downtrodden &
> toiling masses used as a ladder for greener pastures consequently such
> organisations will continuosly breed such type of leadership. Blame less
> leaders for they are a product of organisation, to alter the cause of events
> through proper reorganisation the necessary leadership with integrity and
> selfless character having embraced revolutionary discipline and willing to
> subject oneself to the will and aspiration of people will emerge
> organically.
>
> Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi
> Cellphone: 0749226361
> Email: nrkgag...@gmail.com<mailto:nrkgag...@gmail.com>
>
> On 3 Apr 2012 11:57, "Sebenzile Mlaza"
> mailto:sebenzi...@raf.co.za>> wrote:
> Revolutionary greetings sons 

Re: [PAYCO] PAC and the Court Ruling

[Chargein Mabaso]

Comrades

Letlapa lost the court appeal. We have been proved right on the
violation of the PAC. But, who will bell the cat within the PAC, and
how? Let's wait and see. Power struggles and smear campaigns that
always divide the Pan Africanist camp will now show its ugly face
instead of focusing at the mammoth task at hand. Some snubbing has
already started.

Good luck, noble sons and daughters of Soil. You are now facing a big
test. Only men and women of vision can shoulder this huge
responsibility successfully. We are watching you keenly. Kazi ukuba
izozala nkomoni?

Izwe Lethu!

Charge-in Mabaso
Ex- PASO Veteran
0710203554

On 2/6/12, mmas...@webmail.co.za  wrote:
> The outcome of the Court proceedings in the matter pertaining to the
> legality of the Alice Congress was as interesting as has been the many other
> legal fracas the PAC has had to endure over the years.
>
> Whilst this is continued evidence of the Party leadership s inability to
> find the key driving anchors, there is another dimension I find attractive
> for analysis. The dimension of leadership, and a point has to be made here
> that whilst leadership is the single most important glue for organisational
> viability, there are many other variables that hold sway to a party s
> direction and success.
>
> And whilst I welcome the Court decision and it must be said well done to the
> engineers of it, I must admit that I was not an inch surprised of this
> ruling. My preoccupation is on something else I will share later on, herein.
>
> In less than six months of office it became evident that President Letlapa
> (perhaps as he then was) had embarked on a no return path to self
> destruction and organisational paralysis. Contrary to what many people
> PERCEIVE it increasingly became clear that there was real incapacity to take
> decisions including on matters about which we had given a clear mandate, for
> his benefit some of them. A telling example was his failure to secure proper
> accomodation for himself when we had, some of us millitantly at the time,
> resolved that he should sign as signatory and secure himself decent place.
> He was our President and had our undivided support and loyalty. The list of
> indecision instances is sizeable.
>
> Perhaps the indecision was a result of leadership inexperience and would be
> cured with time, so we wanted to convince ourselves.
>
> But then other things happened. In post apartheid SA he presided and
> engineered the break up of the PAC into small insignificant pieces. This was
> very painful and it still is. Two splinter movements sprang out of the
> party, including his attempt at killing PAYCO by introducing some league
> concept. I personally have little regard for the two individuals who led
> these splinter groups as they are just as much opportunists. The issue is
> that the desire for people to break up Parties is always there but
> leadership prevails. In cases where the split is not avoidable,
> organisational performance must absolve you as some form of 'mitigation'. In
> this instance the party is on a desperate downslide appealing to mainly the
> few councillor segments most of whom are driven by survivalist interests.
>
> So having seen all of these, the outcome was always on the cards.
>
> My real issue is what then, and I think we must tread slowly, carefully and
> robustly drawing from our past experiences.
>
> There is no doubt as there never was, that the Alice concoction was ill
> advised and fatal for the Party. Whatever we do on the leadership question,
> we must place cadres in charge only once we know fully well what they stand
> for and what their character make is. It is this aspect we should engage
> each other accross.
>
> Izwe Lethu iAfrika !
>
> Matome Mashao
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my BlackBerry®
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Tommy ka-Ntando 
> Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
> Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2012 12:44:41
> To: payco@googlegroups.com
> Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
> Subject: [PAYCO] Re: [PAC] Gauteng meeting
>
> Cde Jabu!
> I want to thank
> you for the initiative you took on an endeavour to coordinate PAC in your
> region. Your affords and action are courageous Noble Son and this party
> needs
> people like you.
> However allow
> me to invite all the Regions of Gauteng (Westrand, Joburg, Tshwane,
> Ekhurhuleni
> and Sedibeng Region) to participate in this important deliberation, dialogue
> and
> engagement which will seek to pave a wayward for us. This will also give us
> time to reflect on the outcomes of the December 2011 Pretoria meeting of
> former
> PAYCO, PASMA, AZANYO, PASO and SRC Leaders.
> We also note
> the tremendous work that Dr Pheko and his team have made in ensuring victory
> in
> this regard. Hence we believe that this situation and challenges that the
> party
> is faced with needs a conceited afford from us and ensure that this matter
> is laid
> to rest and total removal of the current PAC Regime. It is true that for the
> total rectific

[PAYCO] Fwd: RAND MERCHANT BANK(1).doc

[Chargein Mabaso]

Please forward the campaign to many people.

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RAND MERCHANT BANK(1).doc
Description: MS-Word document

[PAYCO] EVERYONE CAN UNDERSTAND MATHEMATCS!!!

[Chargein Mabaso]

 Ma-Afrika Malcom X advises all revolutionaries to go into business in order
to be independent from limitatitions of employment. Even Robert Mangaliso
Sobukwe resigned and left his well paying job at Wits Unversity to be off
the hook before he could embark on the Revolution fulltime. To do that, you
cannot rely only on tenders from goverment and the private sector even as a
qualified engineer as I do. In all of them there are ANC deployees to go
through. They are telling us, 'to be a PAC / PAM member is career-limiting'.
To them, there is no difference between PAC and PAM. Others are telling us
that 'principles do not pay the bills'.  Thami Ka Plaajie was faced with
such challenges. I personally could not be promoted in many companies
because of my party affiliation.  I remained in one grade (M16) from January
2001 to January 2010. I then decided to quit. I was called by my bosses many
times and told the reason, in an informal way. I was told I am not an ANC
deployee. They advised me to join ANC first. Some of my colleagues are now
either General Managers, Directors or CEO's of big companies with my
qualificatons and experence in managing big engineering businsses or even
with less qualificatons and experence as I do. I had a choice to join the
ANC, accept humiliation or quit. Even now I am told there is work for me as
a qulified engineer but I must first join the ANC. Faced with this
challenge, I dcided to quit and start the initiative below.  I believe while
making a living and also be contributing to the eduational development of an
Afrcan child. Maths and science subjects are my core genius like many of my
colleagues in our field. Other people have their own talents, such as music,
drawing, writing, speaking, comedy, propoganda, etc. Let's follow our
indivindual calls and excell. Ma-Afrika, let's go into busness in great
numbers to be independent and to have time to build the whole Pan Africanist
Movement (PAM or PAC) to be a force to be reckoned. If you know someone who
is in need of our services, refer him / her to our website,
www.mihlalistutoring.co.za or send my contacts below to them. Our rates are
negotiable based on demand and need.





Regards



CHARGE-IN MABASO

B.Sc. Electrical Engineering (UDW),

B.Sc. (Physics 3 & Applied Maths 3) (UNITRA)

City Power MDP Gordon Institute of Business Science

Nat. Diploma: Diagnostic Radiography (Baragwanath)



Tel +27 16 423 1963

Cell: 071 020 3554

 Web : www.mihlalistutoring.co.za




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Re: [PAYCO] Re: KA-PLAATJIE JOINS ANC

[Chargein Mabaso]

Cde Narius

Which PAC are you referring to? Do you regard the current Party led by
Letlapa and guided by the Constitution adopted at Fort Hare as PAC?

I thought I made myself clear to Letlapa in one of the PAC NEC meetings I
attended when he said the then PAC Consutution was a cause for decades of
PAC imprisonment and as a result he said he intended to throw it into the
dustbin and rule the PAC by military-styled order.   I told him that to me
PAC is only PAC with the 1959 Basic Documnts. Without them, it is not
different from ANC. What makes PAC different from ANC are the PAC Basic
Documents without being doctored. After what happened, what you have there
is PAC in name and form but not in content.  It is not the same PAC of 1959
Sobukwe led.

Cde Narius, when the snake leaves behind its dry skin after a winter season,
what is left is not the snake but the snake's skin. That is a big
difference. When an individual dies, we call what is left behind after the
immoral soul has left the mortal body his corpse (his dead body), not him.
Yes, there is a belief, just a belief, that when you talk to the dead
human's body you are linknig up with his / her soul even if you have
betrayed him/her. What a sad bluffing!

Many loyalists of Ndabaningi Sithole did not leave with Robert Mugabe to
form another Zanu when Robert Mugabe discovered that Ndabaningi Sithole had
already off-ramped from the African Cause.  Similarly, former ANCYL leaders
such as O.R. Tambo and Nelson Mandela did not break with R.M. Sobukwe even
when the ANC adopted a sell-out document thereby dumping the revolutionary
nation-buiding progamme,1949 Programme of Action, they developed while they
were still members of the ANCYL.. All what they said was that they would die
being ANC members as many people are now saying in both the PAC and ANC.
That alone is an admision that they see what is wrong with the current PAC
and ANC. Their allegiance is solely to either a leader or Party name calle
PAC or ANC, not what the Party stands for, its ideas (ideology). Mugabe and
Sobukwe did not d that. For example, the ANC of 1912 - 1955 is different
from the ANC of 1955 - 2010. Can you see that difference?  The PAC of 1959
up to the Fort Congress became the custodian of  the ANC of 1912 - 1955 and
its 1949 Programme of Action.  That is PAC became ANC of 1912 - 1955 in
content. On the other side, ANC remained ANC in form only, not in
content. The current hot debate on nationaisation of the nation's assets
that is going on within the ANC are just signs and symptoms of the major
problem / disease.  Similarly, the Letlapa-led PAC is PAC in form only but
not in content.  I cannot be part of a PAC in form (like a snake's skin).

Cde Narius, it is now a matter of the difference between the PAC body and
its soul. There is nothing wrong to pray for the immortal soul to come back
to its mortal body. Miracles sometimes happen, we are told. They say when
you pray hard and honestly with all your heart, the dead sometimes rise from
their graves. Keep on praying son of the soil. *Akulahlwa mbeleko ngakufelwa
* *(Victory belongs to the most peserverering*)! Remember: You means must
justify your end. I do not see that t all.

Izwe Lethu!

Charge-in Mabaso
PAM Deputy President


On Mon, Jun 7, 2010 at 2:07 PM, Narius Moloto  wrote:

>  Chargein mabaso.
>
> Would you like to come back the pac?i do have an application form waiting
> for you.but you must resign from pam first.
>
> *From:* payco@googlegroups.com [mailto:pa...@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf
> Of *Chargein Mabaso
> *Sent:* 04 June 2010 04:26 PM
>
> *To:* payco@googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* Re: [PAYCO] Re: KA-PLAATJIE JOINS ANC
>
>
>
> Cde Narius
>
>
>
> Evertime I read your contribution in this group makes me wonder what are
> your intentions. I sometimes wonder what makes so adamant about your wrong
> positions. Where are you paying your allegiance to? To the PAC you claim to
> be loyal to or to Letlapa, ...? You sound like a factionalist yorself.
>
>
>
> I challenge you, cde Narius, to respond directly to me now. Stop acting
> like some one with authority on issues on this group. Your utterances do not
> build even the Party you are claimimg to be loyal to. It is people like you
> who have cause serious divisions in PAC. When there is problem, they say
> there is none.
>
>
>
> I challenge you. Letlapa is 80 - 90% to be blame for the current mess in
> PAC. Please disprove my hypothesis with facts.
>
>
>
> In your response, do not take this engagement to be personal. Be objective.
> Every point must be backed with facts. Educate the rest of the member why
> you are not a factionalist by nature. I will show you why I believe you are
> a factionalist. Use my case why I left PAC and formed PAM in your input.
> Show the rest why do you think we were wrong and we are just a gro

Re: [PAYCO] Re: KA-PLAATJIE JOINS ANC

[Chargein Mabaso]

Cde Narius

Evertime I read your contribution in this group makes me wonder what are
your intentions. I sometimes wonder what makes so adamant about your wrong
positions. Where are you paying your allegiance to? To the PAC you claim to
be loyal to or to Letlapa, ...? You sound like a factionalist yorself.

I challenge you, cde Narius, to respond directly to me now. Stop acting
like some one with authority on issues on this group. Your utterances do not
build even the Party you are claimimg to be loyal to. It is people like you
who have cause serious divisions in PAC. When there is problem, they say
there is none.

I challenge you. Letlapa is 80 - 90% to be blame for the current mess in
PAC. Please disprove my hypothesis with facts.

In your response, do not take this engagement to be personal. Be objective.
Every point must be backed with facts. Educate the rest of the member why
you are not a factionalist by nature. I will show you why I believe you are
a factionalist. Use my case why I left PAC and formed PAM in your input.
Show the rest why do you think we were wrong and we are just a group of
factionalists who are doomed to fail as you claim. I will respond back to
you accordingly, man to man. I want us to be brutal frank to each other.
Live nothing to back your case. Do not nurse my feelings I have a thick
skin. Throw whatever punch you might have I will take it as it comes as a
man. Bear in mind, we are not fighting, but teaching each other a lesson. I
am not a liberal. I dont believe we must keep quiet for the sake of peace
when things are bad.

I am sick and tired of you stance, son of the soil while you are
destructive. This authority that you have, where do you get it, son of the
soil?

Charge-in Mabaso (Oo-MCharge)
PAM Deputy President


On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 8:38 AM, Narius Moloto  wrote:

>  I agree with you.thami did the right thing,his mission in the pac was
> accomplished and he went back home and he is happy to be home.those who
> believe in him will follow him.it is time to evaluate everyone who was
> ever in the party leadership at some stage,the role they played then and
> what happened after they were voted out of those positions.where are they
> now and what are their relationship with the party they once led.that should
> give you an idea as to what went wrong.all leaders who did not come through
> the branches and party structures disappeares after their terms of office
> and have nothing to do with the party.when they appear is when some members
> of a faction pulls them in for a factional interest.that bring us to the
> question of wether it is a right thing to recircle leadership.its is my
> opinion that leadership of the party is a serious matter,that when you are
> given an opportunity to lead the party you must make good use of the
> opportunity.once it leaves it is gone,you may serve the party in some sort
> of capacity and supportive role.leadership cannot be recircled it is
> dangerous thing to do.
>
>
>
> *From:* payco@googlegroups.com [mailto:pa...@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf
> Of *a...@joburg.org.za
> *Sent:* 02 June 2010 01:42 PM
> *To:* payco@googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* Re: [PAYCO] Re: KA-PLAATJIE JOINS ANC
>
>
>
>
> This is not something to be disappointed about. He did not walk the talk
> when he was Secretary for Education in Gauteng, shortsighted comrades
> parachuted him to Secretary General, and he did not walk the talk, founded
> his own party with Cde Tefo and could not organise a branch. This reflects
> on all of us who claim to be PAC.
>
>
>
>
> Ali Khangela Hlongwane
> Chief Curator: MuseuMAfricA
>
> 121 Bree Street
> Newtown
> 2001
>
> Box 517
> Newtown
> Tel:(011) 833 5624
> Fax:(011)833 5636
> Cell: 082 4639869
> a...@joburg.org.za
> www.joburg.org.za
> (This letter was sent electronically and is therefore not signed)
>
>*Sembene *
> Sent by: payco@googlegroups.com
>
> 06/02/2010 12:48 PM
> Please respond to payco
>
>
> To:Pan Africanist Youth Congress 
> cc:
> Subject:[PAYCO] Re: KA-PLAATJIE JOINS ANC
>
>
>
>
> Comrades.
>
> I have been a follower of the said man's political life and can
> confirm that I am disappointed on him as both a man and a parent. The
> least said about this subject the better comrades believe me.
>
> Regards
>
> --
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Re: [PAYCO] Fwd: Raymond Nkrumah Kgagudi wrote on your Wall...

[Chargein Mabaso]

You sound just like many political novices I know in this movement. You
sound like the people who brought Letlapa into power out of ignorance,
arrogance  and in disregard of the advices of so many seasoned
revolutionaries (veterans) in this movement.

What PAYCO and PASMA know about the defense of revolution after the mess you
have done to the Party in defence of Letlapa, not PAC?

As former member of PASO and AZANYU NECs, I am proud  of our contribution as
youth leaders of our time. We put PAC where it rightful belongs, at the
centre stage of South African politics. What PAYCO and PASMA did, except
destroying PAC through paying their allegances to a leader, not to PAC?  I
have no respect for such people.

You still need to come forward and ask for forgiveness for your wrongdoings
in the movement before you can start pointing fingers. The most damage
incured by PAC under Letlapa leadership must be put squarely at the
doorsteps of  PAYCO and PASMA leaders, and no where else.

Remember: PAM is the product of Letlapa and leaders of PAYCO and PASMA. I
thought you knew that fact.  Given time, I can remind your short memory.

We must also remember, PAM is PAC-in-content. The current PAC is
PAC-in-form, but not in content. The current PAC off-ramped from both the
1949 Programme of Action and the 1959 Pan Africanist Manifesto. Today, we
have PAYCO and PACYL as PAC component structres. Is that not funny to you?
Is that not showing degeneration of PAC? During our youth days, that could
not happen. Remember, the youth and students, as the militant section of any
party or society,  play a crucial role in any political organsation, except
in the current PAC. Why??? PAYCO and PASMA have the answer.

Cunningham, remember what you said to me on our delayed flight from JHB to
CT (about 11pm) after the historic NEC meeting (about your Grand plan with
Letlapa).  I was sobber on that day.

Cde, my memory is still serving me well. Your plan was executed to its
logical conclusion, according to the way you tabulated to me. I then wonder
why you are also one of the people who are putting all the blame only to
Letlapa for all what has happened to the PAC. When are you all (Cunningham,
Ntonzima, Mashao, Siya, Tembeka, etc) going to take the blame too for all
your mess?  May be, cde, you were not aware you were briefing one of the
victims. But, thanks for such valuable information from the opponent.

This is not about revenge but honest to say, "I accept the blame. I was
wrong". You are then in the right route to draw lessons from your mistakes
and failures, so that you do not repeat them again. I do not see that with
all former Letlapa cronies. They are still arrogant as ever.

We were also wrong to be septical about the 1994 elections without the land
question being resolved. We are not ashame to accept the bame for our
misjudgement of the Apartheid regime's commitmet to the CODESA agreemets. We
were too cautious. We saw the whole setup as a Dingaan's kraal. At least, as
visionaries we envisaged the current politial setup in the "New" South
Africa (problems of unresolved land question and transfer of economic
power). We now have the neo-colonial state of the highest order, the
modernized Mozerewa - type of arrangment. *What a shame!!! *

Izwe Lethu!


On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 2:38 PM, sello mafrika Tladi wrote:

> Which capacities are you giving this advise to PAYCO both of you as PAC
> supporters or sympathisers.Last time we spoke to Raymond myself and PAYCO
> President he told us that he does not want to be associated with PAC youth
> wing PAYCO.How is DSM?
>
> Mabaso I hope you are not lost this PAYCO FORUM not  of that ghost you
> formed with Thami.I refuse to call it with the name of revolutionary
> movement that was formed to defend revolution in occupied Azania.
>
> You used to be useful in the PAC but not today.
>
> counter revolutionaries will never chat a revolutionary way forward
>
>   On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 2:14 PM, Chargein Mabaso 
> wrote:
>
>> I agree with Nrumah. As Pan Africanists we have correct political line
>> and ideology. Problem: rhetoric and vulgarizaton of Pan Africanism. Our main
>> rival, the ruling party, mastered what Pan Africaists are very weak at
>> doing: understanding and practicing political hegemony and the notion of
>> "From the masses, to the masses..."(mass line). You may call it Stalinism,
>> but it works. That's what kept and still keeps the ANC and other political
>> parties in power. That's , political influence and control of the thinking
>> of the whole society at large(workers, peasants, business people,
>> professionals, academcs, clerics and atheists, cerebrities, sports people,
>> pensioners, women, youth,students, etc). These are all the people who will
>> either take us to or remove us from power depending on who ha

Re: [PAYCO] Fwd: Raymond Nkrumah Kgagudi wrote on your Wall...

[Chargein Mabaso]

I agree with Nrumah. As Pan Africanists we have correct political line
and ideology. Problem: rhetoric and vulgarizaton of Pan Africanism. Our main
rival, the ruling party, mastered what Pan Africaists are very weak at
doing: understanding and practicing political hegemony and the notion of
"From the masses, to the masses..."(mass line). You may call it Stalinism,
but it works. That's what kept and still keeps the ANC and other political
parties in power. That's , political influence and control of the thinking
of the whole society at large(workers, peasants, business people,
professionals, academcs, clerics and atheists, cerebrities, sports people,
pensioners, women, youth,students, etc). These are all the people who will
either take us to or remove us from power depending on who has won their
hearts and minds, not our members. If not, South Africa will be under the
minority rule of a group of terrorists who can sieze power only  through
force of arms, not through international accepted democratic practices
(popular votes).

Cunningham and other Pan Africanists in NACTU owes us an explanation
for their faiulre to do what is expected of them, just like Vavi and other
trade union leaders. MDC is  today  a serious threat in Zimbabwe with its
pro-West ideas because of unions under its apron strings.  What is
different between NACTU and other trade unions  in the whole world?

I still believe with the full support of influential unions and other
formations of the civil society we can rule this country from tommorrow
onward. I have not doubts. Let's just address address all our failures and
weaknesses. And then go t the voters. Door-to-door campaign is what we
inherited from Sobukwe and his cabinet. Arm-chair politics will continue
keeping Pan Africanists out of power in South Afica.

PAYCO group must be used only to refine our ideoogy; to iron out ideological
strggles, not for rhetorics and complaining about ANC outperforming us in
the election game. We must answer challenges facing the movement, such as :

   - Pan Africanism wthout Pan Africanists
   - Africanist Socalist Democracy v.s New Democracy in SA
   - United States of Africa or Unified Socialist Africa
   - United States of Africa  without  socalist States or socialists
   - Pan Afrcanism: Capitalism or Socialism?
   - Private planned or State planned economy
   - Malema's nationalisation : Capitalist or Socalist route? Difference??
   - Return of land: How??
   - Transfer of economic power: How??
   - etc



On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 12:31 PM, sello mafrika Tladi wrote:

>
>
> -- Forwarded message --
> From: Facebook 
> 
> >
> Date: Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 12:18 PM
> Subject: Raymond Nkrumah Kgagudi wrote on your Wall...
> To: Sello M'Afrika 
>
>
> Raymond Nkrumah posted something on your Wall and wrote:
>
> "Rhetorical statements are not a solution and the serve no significant
> purpose but if you can start working within the masses, build and integrate
> the party within t community and workers' struggles then you will possess
> the stregnth and ability to condemn and effect the necessary revolutionary
> change within the occupied Azania and the African Continent. through
> organisation and a clear political theory we can liberate Africans from the
> current state of servitude, poverty and human degradation."
>
>
> Reply to this email to comment on this post.
>
> To see your Wall or to write on Raymond Nkrumah's Wall, follow the link
> below:
>
> http://www.facebook.com/n/?profile.php&id=1529311958&v=wall&story_fbid=1421477266819&mid=2435a30G5b2772d6G19ce288G1&n_m=rmsello%40gmail.com
>
> Thanks,
> The Facebook Team
>
> ___
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Re: [PAYCO] PAYCO Website Updates

[Chargein Mabaso]

Son of the Soil

May you please do the same for the former PASO / PASM leaders, if PASMA has
not done so, yet.

We are also looking for the photo of the founding PASO NEC members with
Zephania Mothopeng blessing our founding congress. I only have mine with
Zeph Mothopng,"The Lion of Azania", taken after I was elected  as the
National Organiser in the same congress. There was, for some time, one photo
at PASO head office with all the founding PASO NEC members together  with
Zeph Mothopeng. Whoever has it, please help us to have access to it, even at
a cost. Whoever knows the photographer who took them must help us with his
contacts to get the negatives of those photo's.  They are the Party's rich
legacy needed to revive the vows we made and the oath of allegiance we took
on that historic day. Former PASO / AZANYU leaders owe Zeph Mothopng an
explanation of what is happeing  within the movement and in this country.

PASO, together with AZANYU and APLA, made history in this country. We can
repeat it again through our collective leadership and efforts, not through
dictatorship - a Mesiah approach. The Charterists
who  outpeform our Movement today we defeated them outrightly in th past in
the matter of 3-4 years of PASO existence.  Putting our differences aside,
we can do it again. I am more convinced now than ever before that we can
beat the ANC in its own game even with its own agents deployed within the
ranks of the Pan Africanists.  It is just a matter of time.  If we cannot
put our dfferences aside, a United Front  is the answer.  I know many people
I have spoken to in the Africanist / BC fold share the same sentiments. Only
a revolutionary programme will bring us closer and closer, not a cheap
talk. Without a revolutionary programme, even revolutionaries degenerate
into opportunitists, careersts, factionalists and anarchists, who
sometimes end up expressing their frustrations and anger in a reactionary
manner relying on emotions rather than objective reasoning.

The power of directing the Party rests in the collective leadership guided
by the Party's democratic centralism, not in a chosen leader  as another
Messiah.  In a revoltuion, there is no Messiah. The leader of the moment is
not neccessarily elected as the best of the best. PASO members will agree
with me. The leader at any moment is elected to lead te Movement because he
/she is either the needed unifier, the compromised candidate, the
deal-maker, the headliner, the statesman / woman, the charismatic leader of
the moment or the majority supported candidate. It is only the time
that dictates to us, not a leader's superior intellect. Revolution does not
need genuses, but, great visionaries.

Izwe Lethu! -Afika!

MCharge


On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 10:56 AM, Lucky Khoza  wrote:

> Receive revolutionary greetings noble sons and daughters of the soil.
>
> PAYCO would like to call on all former leaders of AZANYU/PAYCO to send
> their photos so that we can have a gallery of all leaders and all
> that, if possible please include a brief history of when and in what
> position did they serve.
>
> We call on all those who have pictures from previous congresses to
> send them through for a rich gallery on our website.
>
> Izwe Lethu!!!
>
> Lucky Khoza
> PAYCO Secretary General
> 073 371 8233
>
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Re: [PAYCO] Poverty levels in Venezuela headed for z ero per cent – Chavez

[Chargein Mabaso]

Venezuela is our model. Go to Venezuela Analysis -
http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/ to read more about  their achievements with
their "21st Century" Socialism. You can subscribe free to get updates.




On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 12:02 PM, Sbusiso Xaba wrote:

> World without poverty is possible
> http://www.postzambia.com/post-read_article.php?articleId=6916
>
>
>By Larry Moonze in Havana, Cuba
> Fri 12 Mar. 2010, 08:20 CAT   [486 Reads, 0 Comment(s)]
>   
> 
> Text size
>   
> Print
>   [image: VENEZUELAN President Hugo 
> Chavez]
> VENEZUELAN President Hugo Chavez
> VENEZUELAN President Hugo Chavez has said his country will defeat the
> poverty still afflicting a good number of the population.
>
> Seeing off the Venezuelan national team heading for the 9th Medellin-2010
> (Colombia) South American Games at his Miraflores Palace, President Chavez
> said under his administration, poverty levels in Venezuela were headed for
> zero per cent.
>
> He said eradicating poverty remained the top priority of his government.
> “There will be no poverty in Venezuela…that is one of my utmost pledges,”
> he said, according to the Venezuelan news agency ABN. “The progress achieved
> since my taking office in 1999 allow envisaging good results in the
> eradication of poverty.”
>
> He said back in 1996 poverty affected 70 per cent of the population and
> extreme poverty affected 40 per cent.
>
> “But in 2009 those figures dropped to 23.8 per cent and 5.9 per cent
> respectively and are heading to zero,” President Chavez said.
>
> He said poverty must be eliminated and that that barrier to development
> would be overcome.
> The leftist leader said the battle for this year was energy saving
> following a severe drought.
>
> President Chavez said the executive would do all it could to overcome
> electricity deficit.
> Low water levels in dams compound Venezuela's situation.
>
> Although Venezuelan is a petroleum giant, it chiefly relies on
> hydroelectric power generation.
> President Chavez asked the nation to save power and stressed the importance
> of replacing 50 million incandescent light bulbs this year.
>
> He said Venezuela would incorporate some 5,900 megawatts to the national
> power grid this year.
>
> » More from World 
> News   
>  »
> Homepage 
>
> --
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> magazine published and produced by Sbu Consultants cc. It describes and
> critically analyses designs of societies, enterprises, business processes
> and technological systems.
>
>
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[PAYCO] THE SHARPEVILLE MASSACRE Its historic significance in the struggle against apartheid by David M. Sibeko

[Chargein Mabaso]

David M. Sibeko is the PAC fire-eater who was gunned down in exile during
the past PAC inner-party struggles.  He was the most vocal PAC
representative at the United Nations.

Fortunately, today's PAC struggles have no known casualties, yet ( *azikaphumi
nadlolwazana okwa ngoku*). History nearly repated itself at  Botshabelo in
Bloemfontein with the aborted assassination that was planed on my life.

Izwe Lethu!

Oom "Charge"

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The Sharpeville Massacre.docx
Description: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.wordprocessingml.document

[PAYCO]

[Chargein Mabaso]

Comrade Mawande



You seem to suggest that those who remained within the PAC have done the
noblest thing on Earth. According to you, those who left PAC and re-launched
PAM have done disservice to both PAC and the African Revolution, and to be
harsh, they are traitors to the African Cause.  Correct me if I am wrong!



Please answer the questions below to the best of your ability. Bear in mind
our engagement on this matter is also intended to clear the cloud in many
people’s minds about the latest developments within the Pan Africanist fold.
 I invite other comrades to assist you to answer the questions posed to us
by history.



Firstly, are we not engaging ourselves in a chicken and egg situation here?
What comes first, is it PAC or the African Revolution? Which one of the two
is the means to an end, not an end itself? Is it PAC or the African
Revolution? Is PAC the product of the African Revolution or the African
Revolution the product of PAC?



Remember: PAC was launched in 1959. The African Revolution was there even
before the arrival of the Whiteman in Africa (That is, long before 1652). It
is clear PAC is the product of Revolution. PAC is one of the means to an end
(*Revolution’s logical conclusion*). PAC is not the only mean to an end. I
repeat: PAC IS NOT THE ONLY MEAN TO AN END. Before 1959 it was not even one
of the means to an end



Who are the traitors to the African Revolution: Those who remain on their
trenches defending the PAC name while the Revolution is being betrayed in
broad daylight, or those who are in mortal combat defending the African
Revolution against its enemies and enemy agents?

,

Secondly, what counts most, the mortal body or the immortal soul of an
individual or an organisation? Which one is wise and honourable to do:
To fight  defending the dead body (corpse) of an individual or organisation
 or to die defending the immortal soul of an individual or organisation? To
defend PAC name or the PAC soul? Which one is more honourable to do, comrade
Jack 


Lastly, why Sobukwe and Zeph Mothopeng did not die defending the ANC name as
its loyal members as many of you claim? Who, among the ANCYL leaders, did
the wise and honourable thing in 1958: Nelson Mandela and Oliver Tambo for
remaining within the ANC no matter what,  or Robert Mangaliso Sobukwe, Zeph
Mothopeng and Potlako Leballo who broke and formed the PAC to be a
pace-setter? Why Robert Mugabe left ZAPU and formed ZANU instead of dying
defending AZAPU name? Why V.I Lenin left the Mensheviks and formed the
Bolsheviks instead of dying defending Mensheviks name? The list is endless
from the lessons of Revolution. They all left their parties to dedicate all
their lives on what they believe in, not in defence of Party name?

Sobukwe, Zeph, Maketu, and others went to the 1959 Launch not knowing the
PAC name. \What was important to them was not the Party name, but the
African Revolution which was in danger of being bertrayed.  They left with
the soul of ANC as cusodians of the 1949 Programme of Action.



Makhe ndibe ndisima apho (*temporary pause*).



Izwelethu! I-Africa!



MCharge

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[PAYCO] Re: Confusion

[Chargein Mabaso]

Comrade Morwa

I hope you know what you are talking about. But, do not worry I will
clear your confusion around this matter , once and for all in my future
responses to Cde Mawande Jack.

This payco group is not intended to be for leader's faction but for engaging
Pan Africanists in order to develop politically. It is not intended for
indoctrination of comrades with ies, misinformation, propaganda and  cheap
politicking.

Unfortunately, I do not know you.  May be I know you by your other
Chimurenga name, if you are former APLA cadre. I do not like to talk to
faceless people.

Comrade, I invite you to follow my contributions.  I do not obey censorship
orders from propagandists who want to poison the minds of our Young Pan
Africanists.

Zeph Mothopeng died still seeing himself as part of the youth. He used to
say:'It is up to your mind whether you are young or old. It has nothing to
do with your age'. As a result, he led the 1976 Students Uprisings. I agree
with him totally.  I left student politics as an oldest man. During that
itme I was the only PASO veteran. There is still none I know en evnow.  I
wil remain young mentally until It is your thinking, not your physical
body.


On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 7:01 AM,  wrote:

>
>
> Iam surprised why are you still in this forum comrade Mabaso, the
> confusion that you have tried to engineered in the PAC gave birth to
> lucrative mobile PAM of which you enjoy the front seat.
>
> It serves to purpose to bring your own barbaque statement in defence of
> your cowardness, other cadres remains in the party and they are still
> engaging on issues that will salvage PAC not your lucrative mobile.
>
> It is true that you have immense history in our gigantic movement but what
> you have done has buried every contribution you made.Maybe it is still
> early for you to come back coz no one who can wish PAC member away, we
> need each other comrades.
>
> Morwa Ngwatle
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> South Africa's premier free email service - www.webmail.co.za
>
> --
> For super low premiums, click here http://home.webmail.co.za/dd.pwm
>
>
> >
>

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[PAYCO] Re: Confusion

[Chargein Mabaso]

Comrade Jack

Welcome back from very long political leave. Ndakugqibela kudala, Son of the
Soil, during your disruptive young life as a leader of the then notorious
watchdogs within the Pan Africanist fold fighting against the Constituent
Assembly. I last saw you very active in Uitenhage in real combat mood. We
found you in trenches those days around 1988 (myself, Mgxaji and Mbandazayo
brothers) sisakha lombutho nawucithayo.

I am not surprise about your utterances below. We used to know you as a
destructive renegade. Usebenzela phi kakade, comrade

Remember the damage the party incurred under your leadership of the
'revolutionary' watchdogs is immense and irreparable, in terms of party
unity, image, human lives, etc. Uthe wakubona i-vacuum kwi-PAC wabuya to
prey on it? Have you been cleared yet, comrade, of the allegations laid
against you during the dark days of Apartheid?

Ubo thetha uqiqe sisekhona, Son. We can forgive, but we do not forget.

We took this decision to protect PAC soul from political vultures like you.
We are still within the Pan Africanist fold, or rather the international Pan
Africanist Movement.

Thanks nge- revolutionary information you have brought to the payco group.
But, do not take advantage of the situation.

What is important is that we remembered Zeph Mothopeng in dignity. His son
also attended the commemoration as per invitation. Mothopeng family felt
honoured by what PAM did to Zeph. Uzakudinwa kuba we are going to
commemorate all of them, including Sobukwe. Those who are sent by the
enemies of the African people to come and loot the remains of Sobukwe, Zeph,
Pokela, and so on, will not get their promised pay cheques for their
sinister missions.

NB! PAC-Fourie is PAC in form. PAM is PAC in content. Qiqa xa uthetha nge
PAM.

You must apologise publictly for your misinformation below.

Izwe Lethu! I-Afrika!

MCharge


On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 11:36 AM, Mawande Jack  wrote:

>  Comrades
>
> This is very disturbing indeed. Renegades in the PAM can not be the
> advocates of the cause and party they had deserted. It's even worse to
> falsify the date of Uncle Zeph's untimely death. The PAC president did not
> die in 1993. He died while some of these quislings who last
> year "established" PAM, like Philemon Tefu who ingloriously accepted De
> Klerk's condition to renounce violence (armed struggle) to secure his
> release from Robben Island were conniving with an American imperialiast
> deployeed Nickel to hoodwink and cajole the party into a pre-arranged
> imperialist-backed detente at the World Trade Centre.
> How can he and those charlatans who had ocherstrated the systematic death
> of The Lion of Azania want to be heirs of the name of this collosal
> revolutionary known for his "A Nation Without Arms Is No Nation" Only we of
> the Pan Africanist Congress of Azania who despite the hardships and
> suffering we endured had dared not desert the party no matter what,
> can legitimately uphold and promote the rich legacy bestowed to the party,
> its cadres and the Azanian masses at large by Mothopeng.
> The truth is, it was only after Mothopeng's death that some of those mostly
> in PAM who chose to flirt with the settler-colonialists and its imperialist
> backers found it opportune to lead the PAC astray. There are numerous
> remnants of these elements with the party whose only mission is to
> corrupt by evil machinations the rich glorius history and political heritage
> of the PAC. Let's fight this organ grinder.
>
>  --
> *From:* payco@googlegroups.com [mailto:pa...@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf
> Of *Mavela Mavela
> *Sent:* 12 October 2009 10:58 AM
> *To:* payco@googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* [PAYCO] Confusion
>
>
> MEMBERS of the Pan Africanist Movement held a memorial anniversary for the
> second president of the then Pan Africanist Congress of Azania in Zwelitsha
> at the weekend.
>
>  The party’s Eastern Cape publicity secretary, Mlindeli ka Majama, said
> the event coincided with the birthday of their late president, Zephaniah
> Mothopeng, who died in 1993 shortly after he was released from prison.
>
> “This is something that we as the party had always wanted to do, to
> remember and honour our leaders, and now we are able to do that.
>
> “Uncle Zeph, or the Lion of Azania as he was affectionately called by his
> comrades in the underground movement, is one of the people that played a
> very vital role in the freedom that we enjoy as a country today,” he said.
>
> Although the party’s president, Thami ka Plaatjie, was scheduled to give
> the keynote address, he could not attend due to a family death.
>
> Ka Majama said the few people who attended made the event successful.
>
> “We were very pleased with the attendance considering that we are a new
> party and it was our first time to host such an important event with our
> former president, Clarence Makwetu, present,” he said.
>
> The celebration included laying wreaths at the graves of struggl

[PAYCO] PAM - Registered + IEC Certificate

[Chargein Mabaso]

Ma-Afrika

PAM is now registered with the IEC as an official political party in this
country with an official IEC certificate. Skwatsha is now a loser. It is now
time for people to stop being paper-tigers excelling in talking in
this discussion group converting the converted. Let us all go out and
campaign for Pan Africanism to be the victor. There many people who claim to
represent sSobukwe. Genuine follows of RM Sobukwe will be determined by
actions, not words. History will judge carbon copies of Sobukwe as time goes
on. Let us all not be the judges. History will also judge who are
the tribalists and regionalists within the Pan Africanist fold. Genuine Pan
Africanists will be the victors at the end. Pan Africanism will be the
victor, not the enemies of African people. In the long run, truth will
always be victorious over falsehoolid and lies. We are in a protracted
struggle here, not in a coup. Quick victories are not our game. As PAM, we
now have the IEC certificate in our hands. Skwatsha must retract his
baseless statement. We have just launched three PEC's (Eactern Cape, Western
Cape and Gauteng) in consecutive weekends as party machinery needed for
victory. If Skwatsha is serious for a challenge, he must put legitimate /
credible structures in place. Those Africanists who are married to PAC and
not to the ideology of Pan Africanism, we say good luck to you,Sons and
Daughters of the Soil. Sobukwe was not married to the name ANC, but to the
Ideology of Pan Africanism. When it could not fluorish within the ANC ranks,
he left and launched the PAC in 1959. If he did the opposite, our rich
history of struggle would be completely different today. Remember, you kill
the movement / party /ideology by being neutral / indifferent / passive / a
fence-sitter / an on-looker. You kill it by keeping quiet. To remedy that
bad attitude, Mao Tse-Tung advises us to be vigilant in combating liberalism
and in correcting mistaken ideas within the Party, the killer diseases. If
you believe PAC is not captured, like the 'black leadership' Sobukwe was
referring to, campaign for PAC to win to prove us wrong. Only cowards
retreat blindly at the face of the battle. If you fill as we do join us. In
a Revolution we do not pay revenge. We have all made mistakes in our defence
for the ideas Sobukwe died fighting for. We are also not angels. But, what
is different, we draw valuable lessons from all operating experiences
called mistakes, including ours. We then say: Never again we make the same
mistake. If you do not admit when you made a mistake and correct it, you are
not fit for ther revolution.  I know there are many comrades who have
discovered we were right but they feel proud to say, you were right this
 time, cde Mabaso. We are not going to force them to do so. But we say,
biblically, ne bhadi lasinda ngomzuzu wokugqibela. Elinye lalibala
kukuthi 'Zisindise uze nathi usisindese'. Labe njalo liphosiwe yi-paradise.
I dabi liyaqubeka lona, with or without you. This development is just
repeating itself in history, many times.  Going to political leave will do
no good for you. Ask from the elders around you.

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[PAYCO] Re: PAC Members moving over to other parties ?

[Chargein Mabaso]

Comrades

I have not been accessing this payco group for some time because of the
mammoth task facing us. I was referred to this article below by comrades in
the Eastern Cape. As I am writting this e-mail, I have not read it. After
reading it, I will respond to cde Mashao accordingly. I know how to deal
with unprincipled, spineless, political prostitutes like Mashao.

Victory is Certain! Down with Enemies of the PAC and the African People!

Izwe Lethu! I-Afrika!




On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 10:38 AM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> More and more I dread the real possibility of a PAC decimated from the
> political landscape by machinations of the opposition, and in many
> respects by own cause. In the current political epoch, I wonder how many
> of our people, members, supporters and veterans would lose all hope in the
> capacity of the PAC to turn page in their life-time and thus join the
> emerging political establishments.
>
> Of particular concern, becomes how these developments would eat on the
> generation of the Pan Africanist Congress, that comes from the ranks of
> the Pan Africanist Student Congress (PASO), ourselves. This generation is
> the torch-bearer of change and power-seizure for the PAC. In the midst of
> the current confusions, I wonder if these great cadres, would not forget
> that they are great and actually carry with them tested success against
> the coming generation of the ANC. Record has it, and I think the status
> remains, that we have dominated in all institutions of learning. I ask
> myself whether these brother cadres of mine, would examine the wisdom of
> joining a party which would soon be led by a generation we have walloped
> all through. As tears sag in my eyes, tears of consumption, I struggle to
> convince myself that my cadres would make this analysis, and ask these
> questions. In the haste of frustration with the state of the PAC, which
> has been like this for long, they may make a decision to move.
>
> It is this posible move and attrition that worries me. Unlike some of our
> comrades with thick skin and tough bones on the subject, I am very weak at
> the prospects of losing institutional assets, my cadres with whom we
> should prepare to govern Azania. Even those comrades that tend to envision
> a different way of doing things against my way, I dont want them to leave.
> Many atimes, people find it convenient to say, let them go, because this
> is an effortless escape route from the task of leadership.
>
> I write as I do, to plead with our cadres that they should not move. I say
> this well aware of the state of the PAC which is much more than President
> Letlapa and his NEC. And because the situation precedes the NEC in office
> today, I will not challenge them to explain these historical
> malperformances because their account will be as good as mine.
> There is need for urgency in resolving continuity challenges that face the
> PAC. For the PAC to continue operating as a going concern certain radical
> things need to happen, a lot of which centre on leadership, and have
> always been, at least this was Presdint Letlapa 's view as well before he
> got elected at Qwaqwa hence his offer then to become President only for a
> year. Granted he still maintains this position, I am one with him on it.
>
> Soon we will, and we must, erase the question marks we place on ourselves,
> on whether we are ready to lead. This capacity, which I know is there, and
> have seen it being tested, is a product of the PAC i.e we were trained and
> exposed by the PAC to possess the stature and attributes that we have. And
> this nurturing was so that when the time comes we should lead. I am afraid
> that time has come.
> Even as this time has come, we must engage, with the utmost respect,
> President Letlapa to see for himself that the time has indeed come. This
> time which talks not to age swopping, but to generation in its broadest
> sense, need to be articulated. It is a dictate of the material conditions.
> I m not mindless of the contribution comrade Letlapa made to the struggle,
> much as I am mindful of the new, altered, challenges that require a
> phenomenal break with tradition and approach.
>
> I maintain, more so now, that from amongst ourselves must emerge a
> visionary leader who moves against the wave as revolutionaries do. For
> those that may discern an overemphasis on leadership I am happy to repost
> an article on this platform I had sent regarding the imperative of
> leadership, and how this phenomenon determines all else.
>
> So, in our small corners, wherever we are, let us plead with comrades that
> contemplate a move not to do so. At the point when the PAC is able to move
> with cohesion, all genuine members who may have left with the socalled APC
> of Mr Godi who allegedly along with Messrs Plaatjie and Mabaso authored a
> document on how the PAC should align with the ANC in return for material
> gain, and the recycled PAM of Mr Plaatjie who was himself the eng