Re: [PD] NetPd status
Great! I'll try it out, and if you want I can help with abstractions (I already have som GUI stuff done with raw OSC) and so. We need, on the network side, mostly message passing between clients and server (we usually have a local server, that outputs all the audio), chat and some kind of ready-to-use templates. I'll give you feedback very soon :) Thanks! Quim 2012/3/14 Roman Haefeli reduz...@gmail.com Hi Quim On Tue, 2012-03-13 at 12:27 +0100, Quim Llimona wrote: Hi all, The Barcelona Laptop Orchestra has been working with some network abstractions built specifically per piece (chats, OSC sync and so). I was thinking on making a whole, reusable framework, but then I read about the NetPd system... I'd like to develop stuff from it (some GUI abstractions, log systems, etc), but it says it's under a transition and so. Does anybody know the current status of the project? Is it usable now, or should I use the old system? netpd is currently a one-man show. This means, it's only me working on it and occasionally playing with it. The new OSC based version is much more mature than the original framework ever was. The old netpd is not maintained anymore and I wouldn't use it, though it still seems to run OK with today's version of Pd[-extended]. I'd say the new netpd framework is in a beta stage now. I haven't touched the server for quite a while (it seems robust) and also worked on the client-side framework stuff only occasionally, mainly when smallish issues were found during development of custom made netpd-patches / instruments. In recent weeks, I actually spent most time on importing old netpd-patches to the new framework or rewriting them from scratch. The most important ones are already done. The one big chunk still missing is a proper documentation and also eventually making a release. I don't follow a particular schedule, though. Explained in only a few words, the main goal of the framework is to ensure instrument/patch synchronisation (every client has the same set of of custom made patches loaded at any time) and state synchronization (the state of a certain patch is the same on every client at any time). Of course, you can pick only the features you're interested to. For instance, you could use it only for passing OSC messages around between clients. I tried to make the framework modular, so it might well be that you find something for your needs, but to tell you more about it, I'd need to know more precisely what you're trying to achieve. I encourage you to try out the new netpd yourself. To get a running setup, do this in a terminal: $ git clone git://github.com/reduzent/netpd2.git $ git clone git://github.com/reduzent/netpd2-patches.git $ cd netpd2 $ rm -rf abs/ patches/ $ ln -s ../netpd2-patches/patches/ $ ln -s ../netpd2-patches/abs/ This will give you the framework itself plus a set of patches/instruments. To run it, open 'netpd2/chat.pd' in your 0.43 version of Pd or Pd-extended. The following external libraries are used: * iemnet * osc * mrpeach ([slipdec] and [slipenc]) * zexy Have fun (or report back)! Roman ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] NetPd status
On Wed, 2012-03-14 at 10:59 +0100, Quim Llimona wrote: Great! I'll try it out, and if you want I can help with abstractions (I already have som GUI stuff done with raw OSC) and so. We need, on the network side, mostly message passing between clients and server (we usually have a local server, that outputs all the audio), chat and some kind of ready-to-use templates. OK, I think I understand your intended setup. I would run your audio generating node and all the controller nodes as netpd-clients. You could run a local instance of a netpd server which every of your node (including your 'server') would connect to. Then they'd be able to communicate with each other. You could configure all your controller nodes to send their messages only to your audio generating node. Check the protocol specification [1] to get an idea about how communication between nodes works. You can download the netpd-server from here: https://github.com/reduzent/netpd-server2 Just run netpd-server2.pd in its own Pd instance (or Pd-extended, for that matter) and ignore all the python stuff (it's not up-to-date anyway). The simplest way to establish a connection between a node and the netpd-server is to run chat.pd. You may want to adjust the IP address of your local netpd-server in the appropriate field in chat.pd's preference dialog. You can open that dialog by hitting the 'pref' button. I a new patch, you may want to put: [r NETPD] | [print NETPD] This will print the communication between the node and the server and probably helps you get an idea of how everything works. Roman [1] http://www.netpd.org/Protocol ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] NetPd status
Hi all, The Barcelona Laptop Orchestra has been working with some network abstractions built specifically per piece (chats, OSC sync and so). I was thinking on making a whole, reusable framework, but then I read about the NetPd system... I'd like to develop stuff from it (some GUI abstractions, log systems, etc), but it says it's under a transition and so. Does anybody know the current status of the project? Is it usable now, or should I use the old system? Cheers, Quim ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] NetPd status
Hi Quim On Tue, 2012-03-13 at 12:27 +0100, Quim Llimona wrote: Hi all, The Barcelona Laptop Orchestra has been working with some network abstractions built specifically per piece (chats, OSC sync and so). I was thinking on making a whole, reusable framework, but then I read about the NetPd system... I'd like to develop stuff from it (some GUI abstractions, log systems, etc), but it says it's under a transition and so. Does anybody know the current status of the project? Is it usable now, or should I use the old system? netpd is currently a one-man show. This means, it's only me working on it and occasionally playing with it. The new OSC based version is much more mature than the original framework ever was. The old netpd is not maintained anymore and I wouldn't use it, though it still seems to run OK with today's version of Pd[-extended]. I'd say the new netpd framework is in a beta stage now. I haven't touched the server for quite a while (it seems robust) and also worked on the client-side framework stuff only occasionally, mainly when smallish issues were found during development of custom made netpd-patches / instruments. In recent weeks, I actually spent most time on importing old netpd-patches to the new framework or rewriting them from scratch. The most important ones are already done. The one big chunk still missing is a proper documentation and also eventually making a release. I don't follow a particular schedule, though. Explained in only a few words, the main goal of the framework is to ensure instrument/patch synchronisation (every client has the same set of of custom made patches loaded at any time) and state synchronization (the state of a certain patch is the same on every client at any time). Of course, you can pick only the features you're interested to. For instance, you could use it only for passing OSC messages around between clients. I tried to make the framework modular, so it might well be that you find something for your needs, but to tell you more about it, I'd need to know more precisely what you're trying to achieve. I encourage you to try out the new netpd yourself. To get a running setup, do this in a terminal: $ git clone git://github.com/reduzent/netpd2.git $ git clone git://github.com/reduzent/netpd2-patches.git $ cd netpd2 $ rm -rf abs/ patches/ $ ln -s ../netpd2-patches/patches/ $ ln -s ../netpd2-patches/abs/ This will give you the framework itself plus a set of patches/instruments. To run it, open 'netpd2/chat.pd' in your 0.43 version of Pd or Pd-extended. The following external libraries are used: * iemnet * osc * mrpeach ([slipdec] and [slipenc]) * zexy Have fun (or report back)! Roman ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] netpd-now
On Sat, 2011-01-15 at 02:40 +0100, Max wrote: log in! Sorry, that was too late (or too early) for me. Did anyone join you? Roman ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] netpd-now
Am 15.01.2011 um 09:43 schrieb Roman Haefeli: On Sat, 2011-01-15 at 02:40 +0100, Max wrote: log in! Sorry, that was too late (or too early) for me. Did anyone join you? hi roman, well we were 3 people in the same room, i thought maybe someone will join us remotely. it was fun anyways. is there a scheduled jam anytime soon? mx @philippe boisnard: please read the section about threads in the netiquette http://puredata.info/community/lists/Netiquette PGP.sig Description: Signierter Teil der Nachricht ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] netpd-now
log in! PGP.sig Description: Signierter Teil der Nachricht ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] netpd
On Thu, 2008-09-11 at 21:56 -0500, Josh Lawrence wrote: Hello list, I just recently discovered netpd, which is frigging AWESOME for those of us newbies that can't program PD very well just yet. However, I have a problem - when I open up _chat.pd, it's looking for people on my own LAN. Can I jam with folks across the internet? Is there a main server or servers that I can connect to? And if so, can you point me to the RTFM on that? hi josh nice to hear that you're willing to try netpd. currently it's not frequently used and i currently don't have internet at home, which makes the situation even worse. i hope i will be able to help to get more activity on it soon. max already answered most of your questions. _chat.pd does automatically try to connect to the 'official' netpd-server on netpd.org on port 3025 on start-up. if you heard the login pling sound, then you were connected to server correctly, but most likely you were the only one around (sadly). and yeah, of course you can jam with people across the internet. rtfm: there is no manual as such (yet), all the info available is on the wiki on http://www.netpd.org. i suppose, you read the 'about' and its subpages. the easiest way to get an introduction into netpd is finding someone else, who interactively shows you how to use it. yo.. have fun and hopefully see you soon there... romna ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] netpd
Hello list, I just recently discovered netpd, which is frigging AWESOME for those of us newbies that can't program PD very well just yet. However, I have a problem - when I open up _chat.pd, it's looking for people on my own LAN. Can I jam with folks across the internet? Is there a main server or servers that I can connect to? And if so, can you point me to the RTFM on that? Thanks! -- Josh Lawrence http://www.hardbop200.com ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] netpd
Am 12.09.2008 um 15:26 schrieb Josh Lawrence: Hello list, wellcome josh. I just recently discovered netpd, which is frigging AWESOME for those of us newbies that can't program PD very well just yet. However, I have a problem - when I open up _chat.pd, it's looking for people on roman or erni are probanly the folks who would answer that best. my own LAN. Can I jam with folks across the internet? Is there a absolutely, that's what it is made for. but i can't login right now myself, so there might be an issue on the server side. main server or servers that I can connect to? And if so, can you the default server is netpd.org on port 3025 point me to the RTFM on that? i guess you have browsed netpd.org and read the docs. i don't think there is more than that. max ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] netpd
Hello list, I just recently discovered netpd, which is frigging AWESOME for those of us newbies that can't program PD very well just yet. However, I have a problem - when I open up _chat.pd, it's looking for people on my own LAN. Can I jam with folks across the internet? Is there a main server or servers that I can connect to? And if so, can you point me to the RTFM on that? Thanks! -- Josh Lawrence http://www.hardbop200.com ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] netpd server crashes
hi john sorry for late reply (i currently only have internet sporadically) i tried to make a netpd-server based on [tcpserver] from mrpeach instead of [netserver] from maxlib. it wasn't that straightforward as i thought in the beginning, because i had to use another library pdstring from moocow in order to convert string to ascii and vice versa. also i had to 'implement' the FUDI protocol to make the new server behave exactly like the old one. i was running the new server on netpd.org for testing and it seemed to work at first glance. BUT: when i tried to upload some patches to other clients, transmission didn't work at all. it always stopped at some point. i hadn't the time to figure out, what exactly was going on, so i just switched back to the old server (netpd-server.pd). you'll find all the different servers on: http://www.netpd.org/server right now, don't use 'netpd-server-tcpserver.pd', which is unfortunately broken. the other ones are based on [netserver] and might crash after a while, but at least the seem to fully work beside that. just for your information: i am not happy about the 'proprietary' FUDI based protocol, that netpd uses right now. we (eni and me) are trying to port netpd to plain OSC protocol. therefore i implemented an OSC proxy server in pd. it is currently running on netpd.org on the port 8003. what it does is simply forwarding OSC packets to all/specific clients according to the first field in the OSC address pattern. if everything is going to work well, netpd will use OSC in the future (i hope this makes it easier to connect netpd with other projects). you'll find the specs on: http://www.netpd.org/server (lower section) roman On Thu, 2008-09-04 at 15:01 -0500, John Harrison wrote: Roman I haven't checked out the server yet. :-( Is it working for you? Also will there be a live patch jam this coming Tues CEST 22:00? I couldn't find it on the website. If it is happening, I'll gear up some people for it. -John Roman Haefeli wrote: On Fri, 2008-08-08 at 08:25 -0500, John Harrison wrote: My interest has been piqued by netpd and a bunch of us here have been playing with it. It's pretty fantastic --- there's only one caveat, which is that the netpd server crashes and pretty easily at that. I've seen the netpd.org server crash a bunch of times now. I downloaded and installed the server patch on an ubuntu Gutsy machine and that crashes similarly. I looked at the patch --- nothing too complex. I suspect there is nothing wrong with the patch itself. I'm suspecting the problem is with netserver, written by Olaf Matthes . I suspect this because netsend~ and netreceive~ crash in my use in similar ways to what I am seeing now with netpd --- Olaf Matthes wrote those too. I was wondering if anybody could confirm or refute that netserver is what is crashing netpd. It would be great if we fixed this. In general I think we have a problem with some externals involving network communication and if we fixed this in several of the externals maybe we would solve a bunch of problems at once. I might be up for a shot at it myself. -John hi john i made a new server patch, this time based on [tcpserver]. this one is also much cleaner than the old one. unfortunately it requires also [any2string] and [string2any] from pdstring from moocow. you'll find the patch (and also the older versions) on: http://www.netpd.org/server i am currently running this one on netpd.org and i am interested to see, whether it is possible to crash it or not. it would be good to have any feedback from you as well. roman ___ Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de -- John Harrison http://alumni.media.mit.edu/~harrison ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] netpd server crashes
On Tue, 2008-08-12 at 07:13 -0500, John Harrison wrote: Roman Haefeli wrote: i would be interested to know, what conditions are needed to crash pd/server-patch on your box. does it behave the same? it appears to behave the same i.e. crashes about the same amount of time and I don't detect a consistent pattern to the crashes. I saw the same behavior (crashing) with netsend~ and netreceive~ so a part of me just wants to see what it would take to fix Olaf's code so that all of these things work. I might be looking into this further... i think, i will follow hans' suggestion, since it doesn't change any dependencies on the client side (actually i thought about writing a server in a different language than pd, probably lua, but first i have to learn it a bit more). i think i go for [tcpserver] first. i rather like the mrpeach net classes anyway, because they are plain TCP, while [netserver]/[netclient] follows the FUDI protocol (so does [netsend]/[netreceive]). i let you know when i have a replacement. roman ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] netpd server crashes
Roman Haefeli wrote: i would be interested to know, what conditions are needed to crash pd/server-patch on your box. does it behave the same? it appears to behave the same i.e. crashes about the same amount of time and I don't detect a consistent pattern to the crashes. I saw the same behavior (crashing) with netsend~ and netreceive~ so a part of me just wants to see what it would take to fix Olaf's code so that all of these things work. I might be looking into this further... ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] netpd server crashes
My interest has been piqued by netpd and a bunch of us here have been playing with it. It's pretty fantastic --- there's only one caveat, which is that the netpd server crashes and pretty easily at that. I've seen the netpd.org server crash a bunch of times now. I downloaded and installed the server patch on an ubuntu Gutsy machine and that crashes similarly. I looked at the patch --- nothing too complex. I suspect there is nothing wrong with the patch itself. I'm suspecting the problem is with netserver, written by Olaf Matthes . I suspect this because netsend~ and netreceive~ crash in my use in similar ways to what I am seeing now with netpd --- Olaf Matthes wrote those too. I was wondering if anybody could confirm or refute that netserver is what is crashing netpd. It would be great if we fixed this. In general I think we have a problem with some externals involving network communication and if we fixed this in several of the externals maybe we would solve a bunch of problems at once. I might be up for a shot at it myself. -John P.S. Some of us tuned in for the netpd jam that we thought happens every Thursday at 22:00 CEST. Nobody was there except us. Is this just old outdated info? http://www.netpd.org/Schedule ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] netpd server crashes
On Fri, 2008-08-08 at 08:25 -0500, John Harrison wrote: My interest has been piqued by netpd and a bunch of us here have been playing with it. It's pretty fantastic --- there's only one caveat, which is that the netpd server crashes and pretty easily at that. I've seen the netpd.org server crash a bunch of times now. I downloaded and installed the server patch on an ubuntu Gutsy machine and that crashes similarly. I looked at the patch --- nothing too complex. I suspect there is nothing wrong with the patch itself. I'm suspecting the problem is with netserver, written by Olaf Matthes . I suspect this because netsend~ and netreceive~ crash in my use in similar ways to what I am seeing now with netpd --- Olaf Matthes wrote those too. I was wondering if anybody could confirm or refute that netserver is what is crashing netpd. It would be great if we fixed this. In general I think we have a problem with some externals involving network communication and if we fixed this in several of the externals maybe we would solve a bunch of problems at once. I might be up for a shot at it myself. hi john what you describe is known to us, but unfortunately i didn't find a way to solve it by myself. also the netpd-server patch running on netpd.org crashes from time to time. i am not absolutely sure about the reason and i also tried to debug it by running pd within gdb. therefor i compiled millers pd, zexy and maxlib (the dependencies of the server patch) with debug symbols, but unfortunately it still didn't show me the symbols of the point where it crashed. i am not too familiar with these tools, so probably i made something wrong. from my experience i can at least confirm, that most likely [netserver] from maxlib is the trouble maker. from what i can tell, crashes happen more likely, if several clients disconnect without saying 'adieu'. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transmission_Control_Protocol#Connection_termination ) this happens, when internet connection of a client suddenly is lost or if pd of a client crashes. sometimes it doesn't crash for months, when all clients have good connection (an they don't crash too often). i would be interested to know, what conditions are needed to crash pd/server-patch on your box. does it behave the same? if so, i wonder if [netserver] really complies with tcp. i also wonder what host is supposed to do if only one end point finishes the connection (and this what happens, if a client crashes, i suppose). P.S. Some of us tuned in for the netpd jam that we thought happens every Thursday at 22:00 CEST. Nobody was there except us. Is this just old outdated info? http://www.netpd.org/Schedule yo.. i am very sorry. we are (i should rather say: i am) sometimes quite lazy and undisciplined people. actually it is supposed to still be actual, but during the last weeks there wasn't much traffic and we often dropped the sessions (and i was also more busy than usual). but yeah, lets have jam sessions. probably inform us by mail, if you know beforehand that you are going to have a session. i would like to join. there is also this other happening every second tuesday of the month, where we have our session broadcasted on an internet radio (http://audioasyl.net). usually we are three or more people there. roman ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] netpd server crashes
On Aug 8, 2008, at 3:12 PM, Roman Haefeli wrote: On Fri, 2008-08-08 at 08:25 -0500, John Harrison wrote: My interest has been piqued by netpd and a bunch of us here have been playing with it. It's pretty fantastic --- there's only one caveat, which is that the netpd server crashes and pretty easily at that. I've seen the netpd.org server crash a bunch of times now. I downloaded and installed the server patch on an ubuntu Gutsy machine and that crashes similarly. I looked at the patch --- nothing too complex. I suspect there is nothing wrong with the patch itself. I'm suspecting the problem is with netserver, written by Olaf Matthes . I suspect this because netsend~ and netreceive~ crash in my use in similar ways to what I am seeing now with netpd --- Olaf Matthes wrote those too. I was wondering if anybody could confirm or refute that netserver is what is crashing netpd. It would be great if we fixed this. In general I think we have a problem with some externals involving network communication and if we fixed this in several of the externals maybe we would solve a bunch of problems at once. I might be up for a shot at it myself. hi john what you describe is known to us, but unfortunately i didn't find a way to solve it by myself. also the netpd-server patch running on netpd.org crashes from time to time. i am not absolutely sure about the reason and i also tried to debug it by running pd within gdb. therefor i compiled millers pd, zexy and maxlib (the dependencies of the server patch) with debug symbols, but unfortunately it still didn't show me the symbols of the point where it crashed. i am not too familiar with these tools, so probably i made something wrong. from my experience i can at least confirm, that most likely [netserver] from maxlib is the trouble maker. from what i can tell, crashes happen more likely, if several clients disconnect without saying 'adieu'. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Transmission_Control_Protocol#Connection_termination ) this happens, when internet connection of a client suddenly is lost or if pd of a client crashes. sometimes it doesn't crash for months, when all clients have good connection (an they don't crash too often). i would be interested to know, what conditions are needed to crash pd/server-patch on your box. does it behave the same? if so, i wonder if [netserver] really complies with tcp. i also wonder what host is supposed to do if only one end point finishes the connection (and this what happens, if a client crashes, i suppose). Sounds like you guys should try Martin Peach's [tcpserver]. .hc P.S. Some of us tuned in for the netpd jam that we thought happens every Thursday at 22:00 CEST. Nobody was there except us. Is this just old outdated info? http://www.netpd.org/Schedule yo.. i am very sorry. we are (i should rather say: i am) sometimes quite lazy and undisciplined people. actually it is supposed to still be actual, but during the last weeks there wasn't much traffic and we often dropped the sessions (and i was also more busy than usual). but yeah, lets have jam sessions. probably inform us by mail, if you know beforehand that you are going to have a session. i would like to join. there is also this other happening every second tuesday of the month, where we have our session broadcasted on an internet radio (http://audioasyl.net). usually we are three or more people there. roman ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http:// messenger.yahoo.de ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list kill your television ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] netpd server crashes
On Fri, 2008-08-08 at 17:49 -0400, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: Sounds like you guys should try Martin Peach's [tcpserver]. yeah, that is actually the plan on the mid-term/long run. since basically only [netserver] and [netclient] are really needed from maxlib, i would like to switch to mrpeach's classes. roman ___ Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] netpd broken?
Yo, I can confirm it with a day-or-two-old Pd-Extended autobuild. I did some playing with this, and if you cut and paste the [pd 1-subsub] object it will start receiving messages like normal. So, it seems that dynamically created subpatches don't get a receiver... A possible workaround for this would be to do a dynamic-cut-and-paste as described in the pd-msg reference, to possibly force a proper creation, but that is a pretty massive hack (and I didn't try it). Also, the use of dynamically created subpatches as a way around the no-dynamic-delete issue is great, I hadn't thought of it. Too bad it is broken : (. As a member of the Church of Dynamic Patching I think it should be added to the reference as an Offical Technique. Cheers Luke On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 10:00 AM, Enrique Erne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i can open netpd, log in, chat... but as soon as i open creator i get error: pd-cr.singletons: no such object and a empty windows pops up: pd cr.singletons (no dash) netloading a netpd patch doens't work now i got it to. just tried it with: Pd-0.40.3-extended-20080531-macosx105-i386 it seems that some dynamic patching tricks are broken. attached example isn't working anymore :(. it creates the container subpatches but can't create the abstraction inside. could somebody confirm that? eni #N canvas 386 22 527 592 10; #N canvas 17 28 355 263 sub 0; #N canvas 0 22 450 300 1-subsub 0; #X restore 10 20 pd 1-subsub; #N canvas 0 22 450 300 2-subsub 0; #X restore 10 40 pd 2-subsub; #N canvas 0 22 450 300 3-subsub 0; #X restore 10 60 pd 3-subsub; #N canvas 0 22 450 300 11-subsub 0; #X restore 10 220 pd 11-subsub; #N canvas 0 22 450 300 15-subsub 0; #X restore 10 300 pd 15-subsub; #N canvas 0 22 450 300 19-subsub 0; #X restore 10 380 pd 19-subsub; #N canvas 0 22 450 300 24-subsub 0; #X restore 10 480 pd 24-subsub; #N canvas 0 22 450 300 25-subsub 0; #X restore 10 500 pd 25-subsub; #N canvas 0 22 450 300 29-subsub 0; #X restore 10 580 pd 29-subsub; #N canvas 0 22 450 300 32-subsub 0; #X restore 10 640 pd 32-subsub; #N canvas 0 22 450 300 33-subsub 0; #X restore 10 660 pd 33-subsub; #N canvas 0 22 450 300 34-subsub 0; #X restore 10 680 pd 34-subsub; #N canvas 0 22 450 300 40-subsub 0; #X restore 10 800 pd 40-subsub; #N canvas 0 22 450 300 51-subsub 0; #X restore 10 1020 pd 51-subsub; #N canvas 0 22 450 300 1-subsub 0; #X restore 10 20 pd 1-subsub; #X restore 21 22 pd sub; #X msg 24 392 \; pd-sub clear; #X msg 24 233 \; pd-sub loadbang; #X floatatom 24 79 5 0 0 0 - - -; #X obj 52 136 * 20; #X obj 24 96 t f f f; #X obj 24 116 makefilename pd-%d-subsub; #X obj 24 156 pack s f f; #X obj 24 325 makefilename pd-%d-subsub; #X msg 24 347 \; \$1 clear; #X floatatom 24 306 5 0 0 0 - - -; #X text 79 22 add and remove abstractions; #X msg 21 53 1; #X msg 61 53 2; #X msg 97 53 3; #X text 149 53 a) create some subsubpatches and abstractions; #X text 148 237 b) if your abstractions use loadbang you have to do that manually; #X msg 24 283 1; #X msg 64 283 2; #X msg 100 283 3; #X text 142 398 (clear pd-sub before saving this patch); #X text 145 282 c) clear subsubpatch where your abstractions are; #X text 23 506 e) if your abstraction does signal processing you need to rebuild the dsptree. you could do so by either turn off/on [pd dsp 0 \, pd dsp 1( or dynamically create an other ~-object in a subpatch and clear it again.; #X text 25 439 d) if your abstraction has a gui inside that you want to open sepparately \, use either namecanvas or put the gui in an subpatch [pd \$1-something] and use an arguemnt as id to refenrence the subpatch. ; #X msg 24 176 \; pd-sub obj 10 \$2 pd \$3-subsub \; \$1 obj 10 10 my-abstraction \$3; #X connect 3 0 5 0; #X connect 4 0 7 1; #X connect 5 0 6 0; #X connect 5 1 4 0; #X connect 5 2 7 2; #X connect 6 0 7 0; #X connect 7 0 24 0; #X connect 8 0 9 0; #X connect 10 0 8 0; #X connect 12 0 3 0; #X connect 13 0 3 0; #X connect 14 0 3 0; #X connect 17 0 10 0; #X connect 18 0 10 0; #X connect 19 0 10 0; ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] netpd broken?
Hmm, I think I might have broken the subpatch receive symbols a couple of days ago, which might be the cause of this. I just fixed my mistake, so tomorrow, they should work again. .hc On Jun 1, 2008, at 8:42 AM, Luke Iannini wrote: Yo, I can confirm it with a day-or-two-old Pd-Extended autobuild. I did some playing with this, and if you cut and paste the [pd 1-subsub] object it will start receiving messages like normal. So, it seems that dynamically created subpatches don't get a receiver... A possible workaround for this would be to do a dynamic-cut-and-paste as described in the pd-msg reference, to possibly force a proper creation, but that is a pretty massive hack (and I didn't try it). Also, the use of dynamically created subpatches as a way around the no-dynamic-delete issue is great, I hadn't thought of it. Too bad it is broken : (. As a member of the Church of Dynamic Patching I think it should be added to the reference as an Offical Technique. Cheers Luke On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 10:00 AM, Enrique Erne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i can open netpd, log in, chat... but as soon as i open creator i get error: pd-cr.singletons: no such object and a empty windows pops up: pd cr.singletons (no dash) netloading a netpd patch doens't work now i got it to. just tried it with: Pd-0.40.3-extended-20080531-macosx105-i386 it seems that some dynamic patching tricks are broken. attached example isn't working anymore :(. it creates the container subpatches but can't create the abstraction inside. could somebody confirm that? eni #N canvas 386 22 527 592 10; #N canvas 17 28 355 263 sub 0; #N canvas 0 22 450 300 1-subsub 0; #X restore 10 20 pd 1-subsub; #N canvas 0 22 450 300 2-subsub 0; #X restore 10 40 pd 2-subsub; #N canvas 0 22 450 300 3-subsub 0; #X restore 10 60 pd 3-subsub; #N canvas 0 22 450 300 11-subsub 0; #X restore 10 220 pd 11-subsub; #N canvas 0 22 450 300 15-subsub 0; #X restore 10 300 pd 15-subsub; #N canvas 0 22 450 300 19-subsub 0; #X restore 10 380 pd 19-subsub; #N canvas 0 22 450 300 24-subsub 0; #X restore 10 480 pd 24-subsub; #N canvas 0 22 450 300 25-subsub 0; #X restore 10 500 pd 25-subsub; #N canvas 0 22 450 300 29-subsub 0; #X restore 10 580 pd 29-subsub; #N canvas 0 22 450 300 32-subsub 0; #X restore 10 640 pd 32-subsub; #N canvas 0 22 450 300 33-subsub 0; #X restore 10 660 pd 33-subsub; #N canvas 0 22 450 300 34-subsub 0; #X restore 10 680 pd 34-subsub; #N canvas 0 22 450 300 40-subsub 0; #X restore 10 800 pd 40-subsub; #N canvas 0 22 450 300 51-subsub 0; #X restore 10 1020 pd 51-subsub; #N canvas 0 22 450 300 1-subsub 0; #X restore 10 20 pd 1-subsub; #X restore 21 22 pd sub; #X msg 24 392 \; pd-sub clear; #X msg 24 233 \; pd-sub loadbang; #X floatatom 24 79 5 0 0 0 - - -; #X obj 52 136 * 20; #X obj 24 96 t f f f; #X obj 24 116 makefilename pd-%d-subsub; #X obj 24 156 pack s f f; #X obj 24 325 makefilename pd-%d-subsub; #X msg 24 347 \; \$1 clear; #X floatatom 24 306 5 0 0 0 - - -; #X text 79 22 add and remove abstractions; #X msg 21 53 1; #X msg 61 53 2; #X msg 97 53 3; #X text 149 53 a) create some subsubpatches and abstractions; #X text 148 237 b) if your abstractions use loadbang you have to do that manually; #X msg 24 283 1; #X msg 64 283 2; #X msg 100 283 3; #X text 142 398 (clear pd-sub before saving this patch); #X text 145 282 c) clear subsubpatch where your abstractions are; #X text 23 506 e) if your abstraction does signal processing you need to rebuild the dsptree. you could do so by either turn off/on [pd dsp 0 \, pd dsp 1( or dynamically create an other ~-object in a subpatch and clear it again.; #X text 25 439 d) if your abstraction has a gui inside that you want to open sepparately \, use either namecanvas or put the gui in an subpatch [pd \$1-something] and use an arguemnt as id to refenrence the subpatch. ; #X msg 24 176 \; pd-sub obj 10 \$2 pd \$3-subsub \; \$1 obj 10 10 my-abstraction \$3; #X connect 3 0 5 0; #X connect 4 0 7 1; #X connect 5 0 6 0; #X connect 5 1 4 0; #X connect 5 2 7 2; #X connect 6 0 7 0; #X connect 7 0 24 0; #X connect 8 0 9 0; #X connect 10 0 8 0; #X connect 12 0 3 0; #X connect 13 0 3 0; #X connect 14 0 3 0; #X connect 17 0 10 0; #X connect 18 0 10 0; #X connect 19 0 10 0; ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list News is what people want to keep hidden and everything else is publicity. - Bill Moyers ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -
Re: [PD] netpd broken?
BAD BOY! but thanks for fixing it. Am 2008-06-01 um 19:59 schrieb Hans-Christoph Steiner: Hmm, I think I might have broken the subpatch receive symbols a couple of days ago, which might be the cause of this. I just fixed my mistake, so tomorrow, they should work again. .hc On Jun 1, 2008, at 8:42 AM, Luke Iannini wrote: Yo, I can confirm it with a day-or-two-old Pd-Extended autobuild. I did some playing with this, and if you cut and paste the [pd 1-subsub] object it will start receiving messages like normal. So, it seems that dynamically created subpatches don't get a receiver... A possible workaround for this would be to do a dynamic-cut-and-paste as described in the pd-msg reference, to possibly force a proper creation, but that is a pretty massive hack (and I didn't try it). Also, the use of dynamically created subpatches as a way around the no-dynamic-delete issue is great, I hadn't thought of it. Too bad it is broken : (. As a member of the Church of Dynamic Patching I think it should be added to the reference as an Offical Technique. Cheers Luke On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 10:00 AM, Enrique Erne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i can open netpd, log in, chat... but as soon as i open creator i get error: pd-cr.singletons: no such object and a empty windows pops up: pd cr.singletons (no dash) netloading a netpd patch doens't work now i got it to. just tried it with: Pd-0.40.3-extended-20080531-macosx105-i386 it seems that some dynamic patching tricks are broken. attached example isn't working anymore :(. it creates the container subpatches but can't create the abstraction inside. could somebody confirm that? eni #N canvas 386 22 527 592 10; #N canvas 17 28 355 263 sub 0; #N canvas 0 22 450 300 1-subsub 0; #X restore 10 20 pd 1-subsub; #N canvas 0 22 450 300 2-subsub 0; #X restore 10 40 pd 2-subsub; #N canvas 0 22 450 300 3-subsub 0; #X restore 10 60 pd 3-subsub; #N canvas 0 22 450 300 11-subsub 0; #X restore 10 220 pd 11-subsub; #N canvas 0 22 450 300 15-subsub 0; #X restore 10 300 pd 15-subsub; #N canvas 0 22 450 300 19-subsub 0; #X restore 10 380 pd 19-subsub; #N canvas 0 22 450 300 24-subsub 0; #X restore 10 480 pd 24-subsub; #N canvas 0 22 450 300 25-subsub 0; #X restore 10 500 pd 25-subsub; #N canvas 0 22 450 300 29-subsub 0; #X restore 10 580 pd 29-subsub; #N canvas 0 22 450 300 32-subsub 0; #X restore 10 640 pd 32-subsub; #N canvas 0 22 450 300 33-subsub 0; #X restore 10 660 pd 33-subsub; #N canvas 0 22 450 300 34-subsub 0; #X restore 10 680 pd 34-subsub; #N canvas 0 22 450 300 40-subsub 0; #X restore 10 800 pd 40-subsub; #N canvas 0 22 450 300 51-subsub 0; #X restore 10 1020 pd 51-subsub; #N canvas 0 22 450 300 1-subsub 0; #X restore 10 20 pd 1-subsub; #X restore 21 22 pd sub; #X msg 24 392 \; pd-sub clear; #X msg 24 233 \; pd-sub loadbang; #X floatatom 24 79 5 0 0 0 - - -; #X obj 52 136 * 20; #X obj 24 96 t f f f; #X obj 24 116 makefilename pd-%d-subsub; #X obj 24 156 pack s f f; #X obj 24 325 makefilename pd-%d-subsub; #X msg 24 347 \; \$1 clear; #X floatatom 24 306 5 0 0 0 - - -; #X text 79 22 add and remove abstractions; #X msg 21 53 1; #X msg 61 53 2; #X msg 97 53 3; #X text 149 53 a) create some subsubpatches and abstractions; #X text 148 237 b) if your abstractions use loadbang you have to do that manually; #X msg 24 283 1; #X msg 64 283 2; #X msg 100 283 3; #X text 142 398 (clear pd-sub before saving this patch); #X text 145 282 c) clear subsubpatch where your abstractions are; #X text 23 506 e) if your abstraction does signal processing you need to rebuild the dsptree. you could do so by either turn off/on [pd dsp 0 \, pd dsp 1( or dynamically create an other ~-object in a subpatch and clear it again.; #X text 25 439 d) if your abstraction has a gui inside that you want to open sepparately \, use either namecanvas or put the gui in an subpatch [pd \$1-something] and use an arguemnt as id to refenrence the subpatch. ; #X msg 24 176 \; pd-sub obj 10 \$2 pd \$3-subsub \; \$1 obj 10 10 my-abstraction \$3; #X connect 3 0 5 0; #X connect 4 0 7 1; #X connect 5 0 6 0; #X connect 5 1 4 0; #X connect 5 2 7 2; #X connect 6 0 7 0; #X connect 7 0 24 0; #X connect 8 0 9 0; #X connect 10 0 8 0; #X connect 12 0 3 0; #X connect 13 0 3 0; #X connect 14 0 3 0; #X connect 17 0 10 0; #X connect 18 0 10 0; #X connect 19 0 10 0; ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list -- -- News is what people want to keep hidden and everything else is publicity. - Bill Moyers ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] netpd broken?
i can open netpd, log in, chat... but as soon as i open creator i get error: pd-cr.singletons: no such object and a empty windows pops up: pd cr.singletons (no dash) netloading a netpd patch doens't work now i got it to. just tried it with: Pd-0.40.3-extended-20080531-macosx105-i386 it seems that some dynamic patching tricks are broken. attached example isn't working anymore :(. it creates the container subpatches but can't create the abstraction inside. could somebody confirm that? eni #N canvas 386 22 527 592 10; #N canvas 17 28 355 263 sub 0; #N canvas 0 22 450 300 1-subsub 0; #X restore 10 20 pd 1-subsub; #N canvas 0 22 450 300 2-subsub 0; #X restore 10 40 pd 2-subsub; #N canvas 0 22 450 300 3-subsub 0; #X restore 10 60 pd 3-subsub; #N canvas 0 22 450 300 11-subsub 0; #X restore 10 220 pd 11-subsub; #N canvas 0 22 450 300 15-subsub 0; #X restore 10 300 pd 15-subsub; #N canvas 0 22 450 300 19-subsub 0; #X restore 10 380 pd 19-subsub; #N canvas 0 22 450 300 24-subsub 0; #X restore 10 480 pd 24-subsub; #N canvas 0 22 450 300 25-subsub 0; #X restore 10 500 pd 25-subsub; #N canvas 0 22 450 300 29-subsub 0; #X restore 10 580 pd 29-subsub; #N canvas 0 22 450 300 32-subsub 0; #X restore 10 640 pd 32-subsub; #N canvas 0 22 450 300 33-subsub 0; #X restore 10 660 pd 33-subsub; #N canvas 0 22 450 300 34-subsub 0; #X restore 10 680 pd 34-subsub; #N canvas 0 22 450 300 40-subsub 0; #X restore 10 800 pd 40-subsub; #N canvas 0 22 450 300 51-subsub 0; #X restore 10 1020 pd 51-subsub; #N canvas 0 22 450 300 1-subsub 0; #X restore 10 20 pd 1-subsub; #X restore 21 22 pd sub; #X msg 24 392 \; pd-sub clear; #X msg 24 233 \; pd-sub loadbang; #X floatatom 24 79 5 0 0 0 - - -; #X obj 52 136 * 20; #X obj 24 96 t f f f; #X obj 24 116 makefilename pd-%d-subsub; #X obj 24 156 pack s f f; #X obj 24 325 makefilename pd-%d-subsub; #X msg 24 347 \; \$1 clear; #X floatatom 24 306 5 0 0 0 - - -; #X text 79 22 add and remove abstractions; #X msg 21 53 1; #X msg 61 53 2; #X msg 97 53 3; #X text 149 53 a) create some subsubpatches and abstractions; #X text 148 237 b) if your abstractions use loadbang you have to do that manually; #X msg 24 283 1; #X msg 64 283 2; #X msg 100 283 3; #X text 142 398 (clear pd-sub before saving this patch); #X text 145 282 c) clear subsubpatch where your abstractions are; #X text 23 506 e) if your abstraction does signal processing you need to rebuild the dsptree. you could do so by either turn off/on [pd dsp 0 \, pd dsp 1( or dynamically create an other ~-object in a subpatch and clear it again.; #X text 25 439 d) if your abstraction has a gui inside that you want to open sepparately \, use either namecanvas or put the gui in an subpatch [pd \$1-something] and use an arguemnt as id to refenrence the subpatch. ; #X msg 24 176 \; pd-sub obj 10 \$2 pd \$3-subsub \; \$1 obj 10 10 my-abstraction \$3; #X connect 3 0 5 0; #X connect 4 0 7 1; #X connect 5 0 6 0; #X connect 5 1 4 0; #X connect 5 2 7 2; #X connect 6 0 7 0; #X connect 7 0 24 0; #X connect 8 0 9 0; #X connect 10 0 8 0; #X connect 12 0 3 0; #X connect 13 0 3 0; #X connect 14 0 3 0; #X connect 17 0 10 0; #X connect 18 0 10 0; #X connect 19 0 10 0; ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] netpd broken?
Am 2008-05-29 um 23:54 schrieb Roman Haefeli: just a little remark (you might know it already): [declare -*path] works locally in the sense, that pathes are added only for the patch, that holds the [declare]. for testing the netpd stuff, it really only works, if you try it within the _chat.pd patch. remark2 (probably even better known): when adding a [declare], save the patch, close and reopen it in order to test whether the [declare] really works. instantiating a [declare] does _not_ immediately add pathes. check, whether all the netpd stuff is really there. is there a netpd/includes/netpd-f.pd and netpd/includes/creator.pd ? if so, it is very strange, that you weren't able to create those even after adding the path to netpd/includes to your settings. i don't have any explanation for that. actually i wasn't aware of that, thanks for the clarification, now the helpfile od declare makes sense suddenly. set environment only for the opening patch might be clearer. PGP.sig Description: Signierter Teil der Nachricht ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] netpd broken?
Am 2008-05-29 um 19:58 schrieb Enrique Erne: Max Neupert wrote: servus roman, list, i wanted to demonstrate netpd today here in melbourne and failed. on a intel mac os x 10.5: with a fresh pd-extended 0.4xx and downloaded netpd.zip i can open _chat.pd. then when i click on creator additionally a blank patch pops up called pd cr.singletons the console spills out: netclient ... couldn't create error: inlet: expected '' but got 'connect' ... you might be able to track this down from the Find menu. error: pd-cr.singletons: no such object hi max which exact version have u tried? have u removed the ~Library/Preferences/org.puredata.pd.plist before you run the newest pd-extended? this versions have been working more or less: on intel osx 10.5 Pd-0.40.3-extended-20080222 Pd-0.40.3-extended-20080504 Pd-0.40.3-extended-20080516 Pd-extended (20080523) some problem with ~ and a new one with matrix (only working as iemmatrix/matrix). now i tried pd-netpd-osx.tar.gz from http://netpd.org/download and it worked surprisingly well. ~, matrix, t3_del all creates fine.. i suggest to try this one too. hi eni, the exact version i have here is 0.40.3-extended-20080528 on 10.4 osx. the netpd is the current one. i can open netpd, log in, chat... but as soon as i open creator i get error: pd-cr.singletons: no such object and a empty windows pops up: pd cr.singletons (no dash) netloading a netpd patch doens't work m. ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] netpd broken?
On Thu, 2008-05-29 at 19:27 +1000, Max Neupert wrote: servus roman, list, i wanted to demonstrate netpd today here in melbourne and failed. on a intel mac os x 10.5: with a fresh pd-extended 0.4xx and downloaded netpd.zip i can open _chat.pd. then when i click on creator additionally a blank patch pops up called pd cr.singletons the console spills out: netclient ... couldn't create error: inlet: expected '' but got 'connect' ... you might be able to track this down from the Find menu. error: pd-cr.singletons: no such object i can reproduce the same on my own machine os x 10.4 ppc. [netclient] is part of maxlib. afaik, it should be found in extra/maxlib. netpd/_chat.pd has a [declare] in order to add the path of the maxlib folder. if it doesn't load, either [declare] on those versions of pd-extended are broken or netclient was moved. i'll have a look at that soon. probably it is just a matter of using an appropriate [declare]. also there is a small documentation bug: it reads: START netpd - start pd and open _chat.pd - click the 'settings'-bang - set your name - click the 'save and close'-bang - talk to other netpd-people and start a session there is no 'settings-bang, it's called 'pref' and doesn't look like a bang. inside is a 'saveclose' button. suggestion: - hit the 'pref'-button to set your preferences - set your name - hit 'saveclose' yeah, thanks for the report. i am sorry, that you weren't able to use netpd. i am currently quite busy with finishing my studies. i plan to spend more time on netpd (and development) afterwards. then i would like also to fix the netpd.org site, which was sadly spammed. roman ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] netpd broken?
Max Neupert wrote: servus roman, list, i wanted to demonstrate netpd today here in melbourne and failed. on a intel mac os x 10.5: with a fresh pd-extended 0.4xx and downloaded netpd.zip i can open _chat.pd. then when i click on creator additionally a blank patch pops up called pd cr.singletons the console spills out: netclient ... couldn't create error: inlet: expected '' but got 'connect' ... you might be able to track this down from the Find menu. error: pd-cr.singletons: no such object hi max which exact version have u tried? have u removed the ~Library/Preferences/org.puredata.pd.plist before you run the newest pd-extended? this versions have been working more or less: on intel osx 10.5 Pd-0.40.3-extended-20080222 Pd-0.40.3-extended-20080504 Pd-0.40.3-extended-20080516 Pd-extended (20080523) some problem with ~ and a new one with matrix (only working as iemmatrix/matrix). now i tried pd-netpd-osx.tar.gz from http://netpd.org/download and it worked surprisingly well. ~, matrix, t3_del all creates fine.. i suggest to try this one too. cheers eni ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] netpd broken?
servus roman, list, i wanted to demonstrate netpd today here in melbourne and failed. on a intel mac os x 10.5: with a fresh pd-extended 0.4xx and downloaded netpd.zip i can open _chat.pd. then when i click on creator additionally a blank patch pops up called pd cr.singletons the console spills out: netclient ... couldn't create error: inlet: expected '' but got 'connect' ... you might be able to track this down from the Find menu. error: pd-cr.singletons: no such object i can reproduce the same on my own machine os x 10.4 ppc. also there is a small documentation bug: it reads: START netpd - start pd and open _chat.pd - click the 'settings'-bang - set your name - click the 'save and close'-bang - talk to other netpd-people and start a session there is no 'settings-bang, it's called 'pref' and doesn't look like a bang. inside is a 'saveclose' button. suggestion: - hit the 'pref'-button to set your preferences - set your name - hit 'saveclose' ciao, max PGP.sig Description: Signierter Teil der Nachricht ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] netpd broken?
On Thu, 2008-05-29 at 20:42 +1000, Max Neupert wrote: Am 2008-05-29 um 19:54 schrieb Roman Haefeli: On Thu, 2008-05-29 at 19:27 +1000, Max Neupert wrote: servus roman, list, i wanted to demonstrate netpd today here in melbourne and failed. on a intel mac os x 10.5: with a fresh pd-extended 0.4xx and downloaded netpd.zip i can open _chat.pd. then when i click on creator additionally a blank patch pops up called pd cr.singletons the console spills out: netclient ... couldn't create error: inlet: expected '' but got 'connect' ... you might be able to track this down from the Find menu. error: pd-cr.singletons: no such object i can reproduce the same on my own machine os x 10.4 ppc. [netclient] is part of maxlib. afaik, it should be found in extra/maxlib. netpd/_chat.pd has a [declare] in order to add the path of the maxlib folder. if it doesn't load, either [declare] on those versions of pd-extended are broken or netclient was moved. i'll have a look at that soon. probably it is just a matter of using an appropriate [declare]. ok, with [import maxlib] i could make the netclient object. but the rest of the problem is still there: when i open the creator an empty patch pops up called pd cr.singletons and creator doesn't work properly. i think it is probably that i need to declare the include direcory.. exactly.. actually it should be [declare]d already (i checked and it is in _chat.pd). probably you could check, if it is working, by creating a subpatch somewhere in the _chat.pd patch and then trying to create [netpd-r] (or any other abstractions from netpd/includes). if it fails, then for some reason [declare -path] doesn't work on your version of pd-extended. a recent build most likely already has fixed the issue. i haven't kept track of what works in which version, but i think, with the coming release of 0.40-extended many things should be solved. roman ___ Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] netpd broken?
Am 2008-05-29 um 19:54 schrieb Roman Haefeli: On Thu, 2008-05-29 at 19:27 +1000, Max Neupert wrote: servus roman, list, i wanted to demonstrate netpd today here in melbourne and failed. on a intel mac os x 10.5: with a fresh pd-extended 0.4xx and downloaded netpd.zip i can open _chat.pd. then when i click on creator additionally a blank patch pops up called pd cr.singletons the console spills out: netclient ... couldn't create error: inlet: expected '' but got 'connect' ... you might be able to track this down from the Find menu. error: pd-cr.singletons: no such object i can reproduce the same on my own machine os x 10.4 ppc. [netclient] is part of maxlib. afaik, it should be found in extra/maxlib. netpd/_chat.pd has a [declare] in order to add the path of the maxlib folder. if it doesn't load, either [declare] on those versions of pd-extended are broken or netclient was moved. i'll have a look at that soon. probably it is just a matter of using an appropriate [declare]. ok, with [import maxlib] i could make the netclient object. but the rest of the problem is still there: when i open the creator an empty patch pops up called pd cr.singletons and creator doesn't work properly. i think it is probably that i need to declare the include direcory.. i'll give it a try and report my findings. roman, i don't wanna distract you --- good luck with your presentation! it's not so urgent. winterly greetings from australia max PGP.sig Description: Signierter Teil der Nachricht ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] netpd broken?
Hi Max, Coincidently i tried this last night (or night before) and got the exact same error - pd cr.singletons. Actually i think there was a hyphen in the error so it was pd-cr.singletons The error occurred using the latest autobuild 2008-05-28 for mac intel. I then got an older build i was using prior to this (2008-05-24) and everything worked fine - no error. did something change in the autobuild maybe between 05-24 and 05-28 maybe that would give an error like this? Also all patches loaded into 'creator' were broken and gave a simalar error for me... mark --- Max Neupert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Am 2008-05-29 um 19:54 schrieb Roman Haefeli: On Thu, 2008-05-29 at 19:27 +1000, Max Neupert wrote: servus roman, list, i wanted to demonstrate netpd today here in melbourne and failed. on a intel mac os x 10.5: with a fresh pd-extended 0.4xx and downloaded netpd.zip i can open _chat.pd. then when i click on creator additionally a blank patch pops up called pd cr.singletons the console spills out: netclient ... couldn't create error: inlet: expected '' but got 'connect' ... you might be able to track this down from the Find menu. error: pd-cr.singletons: no such object i can reproduce the same on my own machine os x 10.4 ppc. [netclient] is part of maxlib. afaik, it should be found in extra/maxlib. netpd/_chat.pd has a [declare] in order to add the path of the maxlib folder. if it doesn't load, either [declare] on those versions of pd-extended are broken or netclient was moved. i'll have a look at that soon. probably it is just a matter of using an appropriate [declare]. ok, with [import maxlib] i could make the netclient object. but the rest of the problem is still there: when i open the creator an empty patch pops up called pd cr.singletons and creator doesn't work properly. i think it is probably that i need to declare the include direcory.. i'll give it a try and report my findings. roman, i don't wanna distract you --- good luck with your presentation! it's not so urgent. winterly greetings from australia max ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list mark edward grimm | m.f.a | ed.m syracuse u. | vpa foundations | timearts adjunct | new media consultant megrimm.net | socialmediagroup.org .com [EMAIL PROTECTED] | 315.378.2136 ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] netpd broken?
On Thu, 2008-05-29 at 23:14 +1000, Max Neupert wrote: ok here my findings: after another [declare -path /Users/max/Desktop/netpd/includes] i could not make an object like [netpd-f] strange thing is: that even after adding the path to the paths- preferences of pd, then restarting pd + netpd there was still no chance to make a netpd object. and yes, the path was right. i tested it without netpd and it works there (made a folder somewhere with a patchname testerx.pd included the path to that in the paths and used it in a new file) that works. i thought the ui-work may heve broken the paths all in all but that's not the case. maybe i have some time tomorrow to give it another try. this is todays autobuild on ppc osx 10.4 m. just a little remark (you might know it already): [declare -*path] works locally in the sense, that pathes are added only for the patch, that holds the [declare]. for testing the netpd stuff, it really only works, if you try it within the _chat.pd patch. remark2 (probably even better known): when adding a [declare], save the patch, close and reopen it in order to test whether the [declare] really works. instantiating a [declare] does _not_ immediately add pathes. check, whether all the netpd stuff is really there. is there a netpd/includes/netpd-f.pd and netpd/includes/creator.pd ? if so, it is very strange, that you weren't able to create those even after adding the path to netpd/includes to your settings. i don't have any explanation for that. roman ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] music made with pd (netpd)
after sitting in on a session last week, i decided to try and learn netpd. it's pretty great i have to say. here's my first test track with it. looking forward to net time! http://ia341035.us.archive.org/2/items/Dim-sumNetpdTest_905/dim_sum-small.ogg -- Mechanize something idiosyncratic. -- cell : 415.828.1625 yahoo : the_shift8 aim : og_shift8 ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] music made with pd (netpd)
Very nice electronica, lots of interesting sounds well blended. Watch your levels, (or ease off the maximiser/compressor).. it's way redlined in places :) thanks for sharing! Andy On Tue, 25 Mar 2008 14:00:26 -0700 star morin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: after sitting in on a session last week, i decided to try and learn netpd. it's pretty great i have to say. here's my first test track with it. looking forward to net time! http://ia341035.us.archive.org/2/items/Dim-sumNetpdTest_905/dim_sum-small.ogg -- Mechanize something idiosyncratic. -- cell : 415.828.1625 yahoo : the_shift8 aim : og_shift8 ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- Use the source ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] netpd on pd-extended
Max Neupert wrote: it would be nice to have netpd (_chat.pd) starting from the pd- extended menue! but i guess there are some security issues. m. hi max accessing netpd's _chat.pd through the menu would be a nice feature. i don't know if a connected [netclient] is already a security issue, but as soon as one starts [creator], others are able to uploadopen patches (any ascii files) on all creators. so i'd suggest to disable the shell external and eventually run netpd on it's own user. you shouldn't keep the original of your patches in netpd/patches and netpd/abs, but we all do anyway. a little backup sometimes couldn't hurt then. eni ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] netpd on pd-extended
yo hi i try to explain how i see things, comments are still welcome, of course. i am busy with my diploma project these days, so i might not be accurate in every detail and i probably won't find time to work on netpd for the next few months. i don't think that netpd should be delivered with pd-extended for various reasons: - netpd writes files. this wouldn't work inside the application itself, because at least on unix based system (and probably also in windows since vista) a user doesn't have write access to where applications are installed. this means, that netpd wouldn't work out of the box, but the user would be forced to edit some configuration files, so that netpd knows where to find patches/ and abs/ directories (which would need to be created by the user) - too much user work involved to setup netpd. - hans (or someone else with more expertise in project management than i have) might want to correct me, if i am wrong, but i assume, that the maintenance would become more difficult, since the structure of how netpd would be implemented directly in pd-extended (all applications inside the application, custom patches and abstractions outside) would differ from the very simple layout that netpd has right now (everything in a directory 'netpd' somewhere in the home of the user). - i still consider netpd to be in some sort of a beta stage. though its working and usuable, there are still some issue left, that need to be solved. for a user updating netpd would be a pain, if some parts of it are inside the pd-extended application. downloading a new archive of netpd extracting it over the existing netpd installation is much simpler. however, my goal (at least what i would like to achieve) is to make netpd work with any flavour of pd, especially with pd-extended, out of the box. this has become possible mainly because of the introduction of the [declare] objectclass in pd. however, the bad news are, that miller seems to be unsure about the correct way, how [declare] should work when used inside abstractions. he announced in the pd-dev list, that he plans to just disable [declare]'s inside abstractions in pd-0.41. at this point, it's not quite clear, how this is going to affect netpd, but if not only the '-path' flag are disabled, but also the '-sdtpath' flag, then netpd-patches couldn't just simply declare their own dependencies anymore (custom netpd-patches are technically abstractions inside _creator.pd), but depedencies need to be declared beforehand (in the pd-settingsfile, as with old versions of netpd). this definitely would conflict with my plans to get rid of the authority of predefining a set of dependencies. at least with pd-0.40 of any flavour, netpd-patch developers have the freedom to declare any dependency they want and their patches will work on any system out of the box, where those dependencies are installed. with pd-0.41 we might have to turn back to a more monarchic system again. as long as such (severe) issues in pd aren't solved, i wouldn't want to have netpd included in pd-extended. roman On Tue, 2008-01-15 at 17:13 +0100, Enrique Erne wrote: hi list i'm testing netpd on pd-0.40.3-extended-20080114.app on ppc osx 10.4.11, although some synths are missing an object i think it's quite usable atm. the first problem i ran into was touch ~/Library/Preferences/org.puredata.pd.plist emptied the plist but didn't remove it. so it didn't load zexy and maxlib, which is necessary for netpd to start and load the _chat.pd. removing the ~/Library/Preferences/org.puredata.pd.plist manually did solve the issue. i guess when there is no org.puredata.pd.plist it takes the one inside the app. couldn't it be default anyway that it takes plist inside the app? and when i think further couldn't it be the same file/syntax on all OS? then.. most netpd-patches worked in my testing session. a few synths couldn't load some externals like iem_t3_lib or ~ from zexy. unfortunately quite a few patches have this error ~ ... couldn't create bon-drummer.pd bon-minidrm.pd bon-blip.pd bon-plucker.pd (the never bon-* synths all use vline and work nicely) t3_bpe ... couldn't create t3_line~ 0 ... couldn't create t3_del 5 ... couldn't create t3_bpe ... couldn't create t3_delay 5 ... couldn't create t3_sig~ ... couldn't create fat-ass.pd - although i have never ever heard the sound of this synth, afaik it was a license issue linux-olny. blosc~ syncsaw ... couldn't create blosc~ comparator ... couldn't create blosc~ syncsaw ... couldn't create blosc~ comparator ... couldn't create while testing on pd-extended i wanted to ask if there are any objection to put netpd (one day, maybe this year) into pd-extended. roman what do you think? and if yes... how about people could add their netpd-patches to pd-extended/netpd/patches? eni ___ PD-list@iem.at
Re: [PD] netpd on pd-extended
Hey, I agree in that I don't think netpd should be included in Pd- extended. It's an application in its own right, so it makes sense to keep it separate. What would make sense is to make libraries out of netpd functionality and include that in Pd-extended. For example, it would be awesome to have a generic chat client, or even better, an IRC client, included in Pd-extended. Then netpd could use that same one, and it could also be used to open chat rooms from the Help menu. .hc On Jan 16, 2008, at 8:37 AM, Roman Haefeli wrote: yo hi i try to explain how i see things, comments are still welcome, of course. i am busy with my diploma project these days, so i might not be accurate in every detail and i probably won't find time to work on netpd for the next few months. i don't think that netpd should be delivered with pd-extended for various reasons: - netpd writes files. this wouldn't work inside the application itself, because at least on unix based system (and probably also in windows since vista) a user doesn't have write access to where applications are installed. this means, that netpd wouldn't work out of the box, but the user would be forced to edit some configuration files, so that netpd knows where to find patches/ and abs/ directories (which would need to be created by the user) - too much user work involved to setup netpd. - hans (or someone else with more expertise in project management than i have) might want to correct me, if i am wrong, but i assume, that the maintenance would become more difficult, since the structure of how netpd would be implemented directly in pd-extended (all applications inside the application, custom patches and abstractions outside) would differ from the very simple layout that netpd has right now (everything in a directory 'netpd' somewhere in the home of the user). - i still consider netpd to be in some sort of a beta stage. though its working and usuable, there are still some issue left, that need to be solved. for a user updating netpd would be a pain, if some parts of it are inside the pd-extended application. downloading a new archive of netpd extracting it over the existing netpd installation is much simpler. however, my goal (at least what i would like to achieve) is to make netpd work with any flavour of pd, especially with pd-extended, out of the box. this has become possible mainly because of the introduction of the [declare] objectclass in pd. however, the bad news are, that miller seems to be unsure about the correct way, how [declare] should work when used inside abstractions. he announced in the pd-dev list, that he plans to just disable [declare]'s inside abstractions in pd-0.41. at this point, it's not quite clear, how this is going to affect netpd, but if not only the '-path' flag are disabled, but also the '-sdtpath' flag, then netpd-patches couldn't just simply declare their own dependencies anymore (custom netpd-patches are technically abstractions inside _creator.pd), but depedencies need to be declared beforehand (in the pd-settingsfile, as with old versions of netpd). this definitely would conflict with my plans to get rid of the authority of predefining a set of dependencies. at least with pd-0.40 of any flavour, netpd-patch developers have the freedom to declare any dependency they want and their patches will work on any system out of the box, where those dependencies are installed. with pd-0.41 we might have to turn back to a more monarchic system again. as long as such (severe) issues in pd aren't solved, i wouldn't want to have netpd included in pd-extended. roman On Tue, 2008-01-15 at 17:13 +0100, Enrique Erne wrote: hi list i'm testing netpd on pd-0.40.3-extended-20080114.app on ppc osx 10.4.11, although some synths are missing an object i think it's quite usable atm. the first problem i ran into was touch ~/Library/Preferences/org.puredata.pd.plist emptied the plist but didn't remove it. so it didn't load zexy and maxlib, which is necessary for netpd to start and load the _chat.pd. removing the ~/Library/Preferences/org.puredata.pd.plist manually did solve the issue. i guess when there is no org.puredata.pd.plist it takes the one inside the app. couldn't it be default anyway that it takes plist inside the app? and when i think further couldn't it be the same file/syntax on all OS? then.. most netpd-patches worked in my testing session. a few synths couldn't load some externals like iem_t3_lib or ~ from zexy. unfortunately quite a few patches have this error ~ ... couldn't create bon-drummer.pd bon-minidrm.pd bon-blip.pd bon-plucker.pd (the never bon-* synths all use vline and work nicely) t3_bpe ... couldn't create t3_line~ 0 ... couldn't create t3_del 5 ... couldn't create t3_bpe ... couldn't create t3_delay 5 ... couldn't create t3_sig~ ... couldn't
[PD] netpd on pd-extended
hi list i'm testing netpd on pd-0.40.3-extended-20080114.app on ppc osx 10.4.11, although some synths are missing an object i think it's quite usable atm. the first problem i ran into was touch ~/Library/Preferences/org.puredata.pd.plist emptied the plist but didn't remove it. so it didn't load zexy and maxlib, which is necessary for netpd to start and load the _chat.pd. removing the ~/Library/Preferences/org.puredata.pd.plist manually did solve the issue. i guess when there is no org.puredata.pd.plist it takes the one inside the app. couldn't it be default anyway that it takes plist inside the app? and when i think further couldn't it be the same file/syntax on all OS? then.. most netpd-patches worked in my testing session. a few synths couldn't load some externals like iem_t3_lib or ~ from zexy. unfortunately quite a few patches have this error ~ ... couldn't create bon-drummer.pd bon-minidrm.pd bon-blip.pd bon-plucker.pd (the never bon-* synths all use vline and work nicely) t3_bpe ... couldn't create t3_line~ 0 ... couldn't create t3_del 5 ... couldn't create t3_bpe ... couldn't create t3_delay 5 ... couldn't create t3_sig~ ... couldn't create fat-ass.pd - although i have never ever heard the sound of this synth, afaik it was a license issue linux-olny. blosc~ syncsaw ... couldn't create blosc~ comparator ... couldn't create blosc~ syncsaw ... couldn't create blosc~ comparator ... couldn't create while testing on pd-extended i wanted to ask if there are any objection to put netpd (one day, maybe this year) into pd-extended. roman what do you think? and if yes... how about people could add their netpd-patches to pd-extended/netpd/patches? eni ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] netpd on pd-extended
On 15/01/2008, at 17.13, Enrique Erne wrote: the first problem i ran into was touch ~/Library/Preferences/org.puredata.pd.plist emptied the plist but didn't remove it. so it didn't load zexy and maxlib, which is necessary for netpd to start and load the _chat.pd. removing the ~/Library/Preferences/org.puredata.pd.plist manually did solve the issue. i guess when there is no org.puredata.pd.plist it takes the one inside the app. couldn't it be default anyway that it takes plist inside the app? See the last part of this email for more info on the plist story in Pd-extended: http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2007-11/056118.html ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] netpd on pd-extended
it would be nice to have netpd (_chat.pd) starting from the pd- extended menue! but i guess there are some security issues. m. ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] (netpd)U(Pd-extended), Pd-ext bug-tracker (was Re: elitism, software and academia)
On 6/18/07, Roman Haefeli [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: luckily just yesterday, i had a (very simple) idea, for which i waited for years: instead of opening the netpd-patches with the (for me) inconvenient 'open'-message, i want to load them as abstractions. this has the BIG advantage, that i can specify the location of a patch (now abstraction) relative to the parent patch (creator in this case). by doing that i can get rid of the very unwanted 'netpd-path' setting. AND this has a very nice side effect: when all patches are actually the same patch, i can add a search patch with only one [declare], that is valid for all loaded netpd-patches (now abstractions). in short: in future versions of netpd there will be no need for 'netpd-path' and for a -path flag anymore. there is one critical point left: having to have loaded the right externals. with [declare], each netpd-patch can define for itself, what it wants to have loaded. that means, the only thing, a user will have to care, is to have installed the needed externals (which is the case anyway in extended) This is great! I also like an additional feature of this method that you did not mention. When closing an instrument window, right now it will actually cause the instrument to disappear. I think that I actually inadvertantly crashed netpd a few times by doing this (since I am used to closing abstraction windows and subpatches to free visual space, but keeping them running still). So now, with this new idea, you would be able to close these windows in the normal way without it affecting netpd sessions. Sorry if I ruined your sessions ever by doing this!!! i actually don't have time to implement all these changes and afaik the actual stable release of pd-extended is based on 0.39, which lacks [declare]. but when pd-extended switches to 0.40 and i'll have made the necessary changes, things will be hopefully much easier than today for eveveryone, the pd-extended users and pd-vanilla/external users. You could actually start working on Pd-0.40-extended, as it is already auto building every night! ~Kyle -- - - - -- http://perhapsidid.wordpress.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] (netpd)U(Pd-extended), Pd-ext bug-tracker (was Re: elitism, software and academia)
On Tue, 2007-06-19 at 11:47 -0500, Kyle Klipowicz wrote: On 6/18/07, Roman Haefeli [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: luckily just yesterday, i had a (very simple) idea, for which i waited for years: instead of opening the netpd-patches with the (for me) inconvenient 'open'-message, i want to load them as abstractions. this has the BIG advantage, that i can specify the location of a patch (now abstraction) relative to the parent patch (creator in this case). by doing that i can get rid of the very unwanted 'netpd-path' setting. AND this has a very nice side effect: when all patches are actually the same patch, i can add a search patch with only one [declare], that is valid for all loaded netpd-patches (now abstractions). in short: in future versions of netpd there will be no need for 'netpd-path' and for a -path flag anymore. there is one critical point left: having to have loaded the right externals. with [declare], each netpd-patch can define for itself, what it wants to have loaded. that means, the only thing, a user will have to care, is to have installed the needed externals (which is the case anyway in extended) This is great! I also like an additional feature of this method that you did not mention. When closing an instrument window, right now it will actually cause the instrument to disappear. I think that I actually inadvertantly crashed netpd a few times by doing this (since I am used to closing abstraction windows and subpatches to free visual space, but keeping them running still). Usually you should only see the gui of a patch, not the main patch itself (except when you are interested in seeing the internals of a certain patch). but it's true, that the patch gets closed then unintentionally, though this shouldn't crash pd. and if your pd crashes then, it doesn't harm the session at all. you can just restart pd/netpd and join the session, without the others noticing that you crashed. So now, with this new idea, you would be able to close these windows in the normal way without it affecting netpd sessions. yeah, true. i didn't think about this side effect yet. Sorry if I ruined your sessions ever by doing this!!! you certainly never did. and still if you did, nevermind, we are doing it for fun.. ;-) i actually don't have time to implement all these changes and afaik the actual stable release of pd-extended is based on 0.39, which lacks [declare]. but when pd-extended switches to 0.40 and i'll have made the necessary changes, things will be hopefully much easier than today for eveveryone, the pd-extended users and pd-vanilla/external users. You could actually start working on Pd-0.40-extended, as it is already auto building every night! i think, it doesn't need any extra work to make it work in pd-0.40-extended. so it is just a matter of finding free time (aah, i a few weeks we'll have summer vacation...yeah!) roman ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] (netpd)U(Pd-extended), Pd-ext bug-tracker (was Re: elitism, software and academia)
On Jun 14, 2007, at 1:07 PM, Roman Haefeli wrote: On Tue, 2007-06-12 at 21:46 -0400, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: It would very nice if it was just plug and play. It would not be that hard to do it. I think you could spend a day on it and have it working smoothly. It would be very worthwhile, but I think you have already spent far more time trying to help people get it going than it would take to fix things. reading that post a second time, i feel somehow insulted by your assumption, that i consciously do not fix things, that simply could be fixed spending a day for them. so, please tell me, what do you think needs to be fixed? Certainly no insult of any kind was intended. I was just quite frustrated by the experience. We were having a network jam at the end of the NIME conference, a few of us wanted to use netpd. But only Alexandre was able to get it running. Please don't take my comments to be saying something bad about your skills or the work you put it. It can be a hard problem to solve, getting everything running smoothly, but it is certainly possible. You have been very good at providing help for people to get it up and running. I'd just like to see netpd get to the point where you can spend less time helping people get it running and more time improving things. In the general terms, I think it should be quite possible to make netpd just work on any Pd-extended install with the user just opening a patch in Pd. If you want to base netpd on pd-vanilla, then you'll need to provide any externals that are needed for the various platforms. As for my problem at the NIME jam, I wasn't really able to pinpoint the problem. But I'll work thru it with you sometime. Basically, take a machine that doesn't have netpd running, take a fresh, untouched Pd install, and try running netpd. For each step the stops it from running, try to fix it without changing the environment or the Pd startup settings. .hc roman ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http:// messenger.yahoo.de Looking at things from a more basic level, you can come up with a more direct solution... It may sound small in theory, but it in practice, it can change entire economies. - Amy Smith ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] (netpd)U(Pd-extended), Pd-ext bug-tracker (was Re: elitism, software and academia)
On Mon, 2007-06-18 at 19:05 -0400, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: On Jun 14, 2007, at 1:07 PM, Roman Haefeli wrote: On Tue, 2007-06-12 at 21:46 -0400, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: It would very nice if it was just plug and play. It would not be that hard to do it. I think you could spend a day on it and have it working smoothly. It would be very worthwhile, but I think you have already spent far more time trying to help people get it going than it would take to fix things. reading that post a second time, i feel somehow insulted by your assumption, that i consciously do not fix things, that simply could be fixed spending a day for them. so, please tell me, what do you think needs to be fixed? Certainly no insult of any kind was intended. I was just quite frustrated by the experience. We were having a network jam at the end of the NIME conference, a few of us wanted to use netpd. But only Alexandre was able to get it running. hm, i am sorry about that. Please don't take my comments to be saying something bad about your skills or the work you put it. It can be a hard problem to solve, getting everything running smoothly, but it is certainly possible. You have been very good at providing help for people to get it up and running. I'd just like to see netpd get to the point where you can spend less time helping people get it running and more time improving things. as i said, i know the problems (if they could be considered as problems), but didn't find a way around them. In the general terms, I think it should be quite possible to make netpd just work on any Pd-extended install with the user just opening a patch in Pd. If you want to base netpd on pd-vanilla, then you'll need to provide any externals that are needed for the various platforms. netpd actually should 'just' work with any pd-installation, though three points are critical: - having the right externals loaded (that is: zexy, maxlib, iemmatrix, iemlib1, iemlib2, iem_t3_lib) - having the correct netpd-path in the netpd-settings dialog (this one annoys me most, because it is due to the 'open-message-path-is-relative-to-pd's-startlocation'-problem [to mention this problem again]) -having netpd/abs in the pathes if these settings are correct and netpd is still not working, then something is definitely wrong. luckily just yesterday, i had a (very simple) idea, for which i waited for years: instead of opening the netpd-patches with the (for me) inconvenient 'open'-message, i want to load them as abstractions. this has the BIG advantage, that i can specify the location of a patch (now abstraction) relative to the parent patch (creator in this case). by doing that i can get rid of the very unwanted 'netpd-path' setting. AND this has a very nice side effect: when all patches are actually the same patch, i can add a search patch with only one [declare], that is valid for all loaded netpd-patches (now abstractions). in short: in future versions of netpd there will be no need for 'netpd-path' and for a -path flag anymore. there is one critical point left: having to have loaded the right externals. with [declare], each netpd-patch can define for itself, what it wants to have loaded. that means, the only thing, a user will have to care, is to have installed the needed externals (which is the case anyway in extended) i actually don't have time to implement all these changes and afaik the actual stable release of pd-extended is based on 0.39, which lacks [declare]. but when pd-extended switches to 0.40 and i'll have made the necessary changes, things will be hopefully much easier than today for eveveryone, the pd-extended users and pd-vanilla/external users. roman ___ Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] (netpd)U(Pd-extended), Pd-ext bug-tracker (was Re: elitism, software and academia)
On Jun 14, 2007, at 3:08 PM, Patco wrote: does getdir work without [import]? Why wouldn't it work without [import]? I've got it working so fine without the help of any ohter stuff than vanilla. Pk ah i am not sure about pd-extended's flatspace. when to use [ggee/getdir], [import ggee], -lib ggee, or just [getdir] ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] (netpd)U(Pd-extended), Pd-ext bug-tracker (was Re: elitism, software and academia)
Hallo! ah i am not sure about pd-extended's flatspace. when to use [ggee/getdir], [import ggee], -lib ggee, or just [getdir] If getdir is in ggee, then you can use [ggee/getdir] or [import ggee] and [getdir] or -lib ggee and [getdir] LG Georg ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] (netpd)U(Pd-extended), Pd-ext bug-tracker (was Re: elitism, software and academia)
On Thu, Jun 14, 2007 at 11:17:57AM +0200, Roman Haefeli wrote: the question is: how should they be included? should they be included as they are now, with the gui and their dependency on the netpd-framework? or would it make more sense to strip everything off to get a working subset of abstractions, that can be used in a more flexible way? as far as i understand the concept of pd-extended as a collection of abstractions and externals (read: collection of tools/utility rather than a collection of examples), i'd vote for the latter, though that would involve a lot more work. i'd rather do not include the abstractions/patches myself and i'd rather do not make the decision on how they should be included. but i'd be willing to deliver stripped off abstractions with helpfiles from my own netpd-patches, so someone else could could include/organize them in pd-extended. One thing that would be cool for us to come up with is some way to abstract the core, and gui of abstractions separately in such a way that they could be used in multiple different state saving/communication paradigms. For example, if I could make one abstraction for the s-abstractions collection and then have the user be able to choose whether it: 1. saves using sssad, has a GOP gui 2. saves using memento, has a GOP gui 3. integrates with netpd, has netpd style gui This could just be a pipe dream, but then again I could never have imagined someone creating something as amazing as netpd or sssad in Pure Data alone. Best, Chris. --- http://mccormick.cx ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] (netpd)U(Pd-extended), Pd-ext bug-tracker (was Re: elitism, software and academia)
Hallo, Chris McCormick hat gesagt: // Chris McCormick wrote: One thing that would be cool for us to come up with is some way to abstract the core, and gui of abstractions separately in such a way that they could be used in multiple different state saving/communication paradigms. For example, if I could make one abstraction for the s-abstractions collection and then have the user be able to choose whether it: 1. saves using sssad, has a GOP gui 2. saves using memento, has a GOP gui 3. integrates with netpd, has netpd style gui This could just be a pipe dream, but then again I could never have imagined someone creating something as amazing as netpd or sssad in Pure Data alone. This is not a pipe dream, if a pipe dream is, what I guess a pipe dream is. All that would be necessary are a clean and documented interfaces for the DSP abstractions. Things like state saving, GUIs or network control then could easily be built as wrapper abstractions. Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org_ __goto10.org__ ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] (netpd)U(Pd-extended), Pd-ext bug-tracker (was Re: elitism, software and academia)
Hello, Frank Barknecht a écrit : All that would be necessary are a clean and documented interfaces for the DSP abstractions. Yes exactly. Things like state saving, GUIs or network control then could easily be built as wrapper abstractions. It might be necessary to have a bridge between the wrapper and the DSP abs. This bridge would find all GUIs inside DSP abstraction, and construct a wrapper with all necessary GUIs concatenated into one dynamically made abstraction. salute ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] (netpd)U(Pd-extended), Pd-ext bug-tracker (was Re: elitism, software and academia)
On Fri, 2007-06-08 at 16:07 -0500, Kyle Klipowicz wrote: You can submit edited patches to the bug tracker on the sourceforge page [http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=55736atid=478070 direct link]. I am now wondering something: why haven't these awesomely functional netpd object been included as abstractions within Pd-extended?!?! because nobody included them yet. ;-) Seriously, they are the most functional and useable get-started-out-of-box things to represent Pd around, and they are not in Pd-extended! the question is: how should they be included? should they be included as they are now, with the gui and their dependency on the netpd-framework? or would it make more sense to strip everything off to get a working subset of abstractions, that can be used in a more flexible way? as far as i understand the concept of pd-extended as a collection of abstractions and externals (read: collection of tools/utility rather than a collection of examples), i'd vote for the latter, though that would involve a lot more work. i'd rather do not include the abstractions/patches myself and i'd rather do not make the decision on how they should be included. but i'd be willing to deliver stripped off abstractions with helpfiles from my own netpd-patches, so someone else could could include/organize them in pd-extended. roman ___ Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] (netpd)U(Pd-extended), Pd-ext bug-tracker (was Re: elitism, software and academia)
Hallo Roman! i'd rather do not include the abstractions/patches myself and i'd rather do not make the decision on how they should be included. but i'd be willing to deliver stripped off abstractions with helpfiles from my own netpd-patches, so someone else could could include/organize them in pd-extended. I can include them if you want. If you have lots of abstraction and also want to maintain them yourself maybe its also option that you get write access to cvs ? LG Georg ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] (netpd)U(Pd-extended) (was Re: elitism, software and academia)
On Sat, 2007-06-09 at 11:26 +0200, Enrique Erne wrote: Many patches won't work out of the box almost always because it will miss an external, or an abstraction, here we come again on the fact that the patches misses some comments, defining a way to specify the externals a certain netpd-patch uses, is really needed here. abstractions shouldn't be missed. if so, i'd contact the author of the patch. my patches usually come as a tar.gz archive with all necessary abstractions inside. if a patch is loaded over netpd and it is missing an abstraction on your machine, then it is definitely a bug of the patch. many netpd-patches are documented in the wiki and have their own page. usually it is: http://www.netpd.org/patchname of course, i cannot guarantee, that there will be a page for every available netpd-patch (beside my owns). again, if you miss come specific documentation, contact me (for netpd-related stuff) or the author (for netpd-patch related stuff). roman ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] (netpd)U(Pd-extended), Pd-ext bug-tracker (was Re: elitism, software and academia)
On Sat, 2007-06-09 at 08:57 -0500, Kyle Klipowicz wrote: Yes, what I am talking about is not to add 'netpd the whole application' to Pd-extended, but merely the modules, which are functional and quite useful on their own. yeah, that is what i think as well. These seem to be the best developed set of GOP objects that would be immediately understandable to those coming from the Reason/Reaktor/AudioMulch/whatever crowd, and would serve as a nice entry point to Pd even when removed from the context of internet collaborative performance (which is still a WAY cool concept, Roman!). a netpd-patch is a patch with a gui-subpatch, that uses some netpd-abstractions and possibly some others, but usually they don't use GOP. either turning them into GOP-modules or just into abstractions, both would require at least a minimum of work (and writing some help-patches). In the next week or so, I will start tinkering with some patches to see how well they integrate in my local Pd-extended distribution. If the go ahead is there from the netpd community, I'll try to write up a quick proposal to include these in the Pd-extended distro. Roman, how would I go about getting permission to distribute the patches in this way? this topic was never seriously discussed and it is not clear, if and how the netpd-patches could be generally licensed. but since it is known, that a patch opened in netpd is distributed within the whole community, one can assume, that these patches are meant to be shared. If this were to happen, would that require that the patches be maintained in cvs separate from the netpd application page? I'm pretty green at this sort of thing, but it seems like something that would be a great benefit, and which I might actually be able to help with. So please, feedback anyone? i don't think that it is realistic to expect people to maintain there patches in cvs. and i think it is more a question of porting the patches to generally useful modules than of maintaining these modules, since i don't believe that people who made some patches for netpd will maintain the modules derived from their patches over years. roman ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] (netpd)U(Pd-extended), Pd-ext bug-tracker (was Re: elitism, software and academia)
On Sat, 2007-06-09 at 09:11 -0500, Kyle Klipowicz wrote: On that tip, I'm curious if there is a tarball of all the current netpd instrument/effects/utility abstractions, of will I have to go to each description page on the netpd site? yes, i think so (unfortunately). it would be surely very useful to provide an archive of all patches. it's just that i don't know how to do it automatically, so that it doesn't need to be updated manually everyweek. roman ___ Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] (netpd)U(Pd-extended), Pd-ext bug-tracker (was Re: elitism, software and academia)
Roman Haefeli wrote: On Sat, 2007-06-09 at 09:11 -0500, Kyle Klipowicz wrote: On that tip, I'm curious if there is a tarball of all the current netpd instrument/effects/utility abstractions, of will I have to go to each description page on the netpd site? yes, i think so (unfortunately). it would be surely very useful to provide an archive of all patches. it's just that i don't know how to do it automatically, so that it doesn't need to be updated manually everyweek. roman ola roman why not just make again a dummy user, and his netpd-folder would be in public_html? greets from stressed moritz ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] (netpd)U(Pd-extended)
On Sat, 2007-06-09 at 16:48 +0200, patrice colet wrote: No, I seriously think that if I miss an abstraction, there is something wrong with the documentation, or comments, and I am not talking about net-pd. I'd rather rebuild my own set of abstractions than looking for the missing patch if I have to surf internet, ask questions to pd-list for getting answers. An undocumented patch is almost always a waste of time for every pd users. I can tell this for myself too. i totally agree. and i think also that it is a good practice to inform the authors about what is missing. i think i can say _every_ netpd-patch that uses abstractions has a subpatch [pd abslist] with a list of msgs containing all used abstractions. when one netloads a patch, _creator.pd will read the abslist and tells all the users that it is going to upload a patch with the specific abstractions and version number. Yes, that's a very cool functionning, it could save everyone a lot of time, and it would be even better if _creator.pd was able to update itself, and why not letting it update absolutely all the files (even the ones in the bin directory)? It would certainly require a 'pd repositories'. it is very difficult to transmit binary data over the net within pd. binary executables are os/platform specific and are not portable, so i don't see any sense in distributing externals/binaries. updating netpd itself through creator might would make sense, though it must be very stable. might be implemented in the future. i was thinking about removing my name from the patches and make it more welcome for changes (see kyle's movie about os)... so far we were cautious in changing others patches. usually we change the name ultrahardcoresynth-eni.pd and do changes and suggest it to the original author... but many authors are not active.. hmm that's an other topic. Instead of uploading abstraction from a net-pd user's computer, it might be better if the abstraction were uploaded from a net-pd repository. Any one that would like to add abstractions to net-pd would have to submit them to an active authority of the net-pd project, then it would avoid a lot of mistakes, and the autor would still be referenced but rather in a net-pd database than into the patch, were more usefull information could be displayed. the aim of netpd is to provide a framework, in which selfwritten code can be used. i think this selfwritten code should stay in the authority of the author and not be moved to some 'superior' authority. something that we all want, are patches, that just work and are portable. i believe that this could rather reached by letting the principles of darwin rule (patches that don't work out of the box or are too complicated won't be used and so not distributed), rather than one needing to play god in order to keep the world running. what information would you like to see in the patches ? I simply would like to be able to understand without having to browse all patches and subpatches hundreds of times for having a clue about how the objects are functionning. For example if I want to put an FX-insert into an net-pd instrument I've made, I take a look at how it has been implemented in other intruments and in the mixer, and I give up after two hours because it's a real mess, there is absolutely no explanations anywhere. checkout the netpd wiki on http://netpd.org . since many netpd-patches are depending on others, it is far more easy to document them online, where docus can be linked. before searching any other resources, i'd try http://www.netpd.org/patchname first. for the specific issue about creating your own fxlibs, there is much docu online (see eni's post). what do you mean with original abstractions ? Let's say: an abstraction that isn't into the pd documentation are you still talking about netpd? roman ___ Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] (netpd)U(Pd-extended), Pd-ext bug-tracker (was Re: elitism, software and academia)
On Sun, 2007-06-10 at 11:45 +0200, Enrique Erne wrote: However, this machinery is ideal for implementing a preset system for the instruments, so that could be very nice. there has been a state saving system for a long time and on it a preset administrator (which i just fixed yesterday) which breaks the netpd presetfile syntax. we'll have to talk about this again. i don't think that a patch that has its own implementation of saving and loading presets and whose presets are not compatible with presets made the standard way should be considered as the standard tool for saving and loading presets in netpd. roman ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] (netpd)U(Pd-extended), Pd-ext bug-tracker (was Re: elitism, software and academia)
On Mon, 2007-06-11 at 00:40 -0500, Kyle Klipowicz wrote: Rather than reinvent the wheel, why not take the fruits of the netpd community and make them accessible to users who might just want a wikkid bassline or GOP mixer abstraction? yeah, absolutely. as often, it is a question of someone doing the work. roman ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] (netpd)U(Pd-extended), Pd-ext bug-tracker (was Re: elitism, software and academia)
On Tue, 2007-06-12 at 15:17 +0200, Georg Holzmann wrote: Hallo! maybe some chosen patches could be converted to work standalone, but it would be lots of work ... and introduce new bugs. some systems like the fx-library system for the mixer were specially developed that different users can develop effects without touching the mixer itself. somehow that wouldn't make sense in a standalone version. you don't have to convert them - you could add them as they are, so they would work with netpd and are included in pd-extended ... But I don't know much about netpd so I migth be wrong ... two prerequisites must be fullfilled in order to work netpd-patches in standalone mode in pd-extended: a) netpd-abs need to be included as well b) an additional patch, that imitates the netpd-server would be needed. basically that patch would just be: [r netpd-broadcast] | | [r netpd-send] | | | [list split 1] | / | / |/ [s netpd-receive] (yeah, in ascii art you can have segmented patch cords ;-) ) roman ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] (netpd)U(Pd-extended), Pd-ext bug-tracker (was Re: elitism, software and academia)
On Tue, 2007-06-12 at 21:42 -0400, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: netpd has been changing a lot over the last years, and things that change a lot don't work well in Pd-extended. You get version troubles, etc. maybe i am blind to see the obvious solution, but the main problem i see in including netpd into pd-extended is a complete different one: at least the patches and the abstraction folders need to be outside the package, since a user needs to have a writing access to these while using netpd. if netpd would be included into pd-extended, either one has to create the necessary folders him/herself, or pd-extended would create them in whereever (assumingly /home/user/netpd, resp. /User/npetd), which is ugly and very unconvenient, if someone doesn't have any plans to use netpd at all. I'd really like to see a lot of the netpd code made into reusable objects and gathered into libs. yep. i also think this is a good idea. roman ___ Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] {netpd}U{Pd-extended}
Enrique Erne a écrit : yep there was a working patch with qlist. http://www.netpd.org/NetpdPlayer hmm good! but be aware it records whole patches and abstractions as well. maybe it could [route #N #X] before recording to get rid of the pd-files. the difficult part would be to build a nice score to after edit the recorded data. yes maybe but it would bealso nice to keep track of the patches versions. pk ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] (netpd)U(Pd-extended), Pd-ext bug-tracker (was Re: elitism, software and academia)
On Tue, 2007-06-12 at 21:46 -0400, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: On Jun 9, 2007, at 5:45 AM, Enrique Erne wrote: I am now wondering something: why haven't these awesomely functional netpd object been included as abstractions within Pd-extended?!?! on one hand i would like to see netpd included in pd-extended, but not on cost of the current package. it is important that netpd and all patches work on linux, osx and windows. if people start to write netpd patches with pd-extended and use many externals i'm afraid we are going to have instrument that work on one os and maybe not on the other. netpd would also be a great system to find os-specific bugs :-) This right here outlines the main purpose of Pd-extended: to provide a tested and reliable package that works the same on all OSes. Basically, I think you should pick one platform for netpd, and make sure everything works smoothly on that one. Then worry about the rest. hm, that is what netpd basically does: pd-vanilla, zexy, maxlib, that's it. these work quite the same on all os/platforms and i think also in pd-extended for every os/platform. Alex Quessy and I tried to run the latest version on netpd working for a network jam last Sunday, we both failed. He got further than me, he got some sounds out, but neither got it all working. Both of us know quite a bit about Pd, so I am amazed that newbies get it going (do they?). this might be rather due to bad documentation than difficulty of installing netpd. newbies often just download pd-netpd for win or osx and that works just out of the box. It would very nice if it was just plug and play. It would not be that hard to do it. I think you could spend a day on it and have it working smoothly. It would be very worthwhile, but I think you have already spent far more time trying to help people get it going than it would take to fix things. hmcan you elaborate a bit more what you mean by 'fixing' stuff? i know there are some drawbacks while installing netpd and i would sure fix them, if i knew how to do it: a) the user needs to add '-path /path/to/netpd/abs' to his/her startup script. i'd love to get rid of this, but i don't see a way, since [declare -path netpd/abs] does only work withing the patch, but not for the whole pd-instance. b) the user needs to set the path of the netpd-folder in 'netpd-settings' (see appropriate button in chat-window). since the 'open'-message to 'pd' is relative to pd's start location and NOT relative to the patch's location, the user needs to set it manually (if not using the pd-netpd-package), because there is no way to get the start-location in pd. since i am sure, that the actual behaviour of the 'open'-message doesn't make any sense at all, i hope it will be changed to 'relative to the patch' in the future. if not, i might consider using 'getdir' to overcome this problem. i think these undesired, but atm necessary user interactions are the main cause for any troubles while installing netpd and i assume, these were the reason, why you and a.quessy had troubles installing netpd. have you better ideas to overcome these problems? roman .hc Yes, would be nice - someone would have to integrate them to pd-extended (using [import] and etc.) ... are you talking about basic netpd or netpd all the instruments... basic netpd is written by Roman Haefeli all the instruments have at least 10 different authors. ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list 'You people have such restrictive dress for women,’ she said, hobbling away in three inch heels and panty hose to finish out another pink-collar temp pool day. - “Hijab Scene #2, by Mohja Kahf ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] (netpd)U(Pd-extended), Pd-ext bug-tracker (was Re: elitism, software and academia)
On Tue, 2007-06-12 at 21:46 -0400, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: Alex Quessy and I tried to run the latest version on netpd working for a network jam last Sunday, we both failed. He got further than me, he got some sounds out, but neither got it all working. Both of us know quite a bit about Pd, so I am amazed that newbies get it going (do they?). not, that kyle is a pd-newbie, but sure a netpd-newbie: http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2007-06/051021.html roman ___ Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] (netpd)U(Pd-extended), Pd-ext bug-tracker (was Re: elitism, software and academia)
On Wed, 2007-06-13 at 11:21 -0400, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: I think it should not be too hard to make netpd double-clickable with no extra setup at all (setting .pdrc, etc.) without embedding it into it's own Pd install. but this works smoothly and i think it is the only option, so that non-pd-users are willing install netpd. The key is just trying it on other people's machines, and finding the common access methods that work across OSes. again, can you elaborate that a bit more? how can the startup-script be edited by a double click installer in a manner, that it works with every pd-installation? the main problem i see here, that (in contrary to other programing languages, if pd is considered as a programing language) pd lacks any feedback about loaded pathes and externals. if there would be a way to check within pd, if a certain external was loaded, a netpd-user would at least know, why it does not work as expected. also for the other issue with the netpd-path, using 'getdir' would be just a workaround, but not the solution for the problem (since using additional externals in an environment like pd increases the chance of having troubles anyway). roman ___ Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] {netpd}U{Pd-extended}
They also cooked me dinner. the netpd guys are way up there with the best people i have ever met on the internet. i bet the girls all love them too. ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] (netpd)U(Pd-extended), Pd-ext bug-tracker (was Re: elitism, software and academia)
The helpfile aspect would be very much appreciated! I think that modular is better so that people can reuse netpd elements in their own patches. Of course, being able to use the sequencers and mixer + fx would be the primary Reason (forgive the semi-pun) for newbies to adopt the objects. ~Kyle On 6/14/07, Roman Haefeli [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i'd rather do not include the abstractions/patches myself and i'd rather do not make the decision on how they should be included. but i'd be willing to deliver stripped off abstractions with helpfiles from my own netpd-patches, so someone else could could include/organize them in pd-extended. roman ___ Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de -- - - - -- http://perhapsidid.wordpress.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] (netpd)U(Pd-extended), Pd-ext bug-tracker (was Re: elitism, software and academia)
On Tue, 2007-06-12 at 21:46 -0400, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: It would very nice if it was just plug and play. It would not be that hard to do it. I think you could spend a day on it and have it working smoothly. It would be very worthwhile, but I think you have already spent far more time trying to help people get it going than it would take to fix things. reading that post a second time, i feel somehow insulted by your assumption, that i consciously do not fix things, that simply could be fixed spending a day for them. so, please tell me, what do you think needs to be fixed? roman ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] (netpd)U(Pd-extended), Pd-ext bug-tracker (was Re: elitism, software and academia)
Good idea. There could be a script called by cron to automatically tarball this dir every week. ~Kyle On 6/14/07, moritz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Roman Haefeli wrote: On Sat, 2007-06-09 at 09:11 -0500, Kyle Klipowicz wrote: On that tip, I'm curious if there is a tarball of all the current netpd instrument/effects/utility abstractions, of will I have to go to each description page on the netpd site? yes, i think so (unfortunately). it would be surely very useful to provide an archive of all patches. it's just that i don't know how to do it automatically, so that it doesn't need to be updated manually everyweek. roman ola roman why not just make again a dummy user, and his netpd-folder would be in public_html? greets from stressed moritz -- - - - -- http://perhapsidid.wordpress.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] (netpd)U(Pd-extended), Pd-ext bug-tracker (was Re: elitism, software and academia)
Great! This seems easy enough. I think that this is the simplest solution for now anyway. Eventually being able to separately use modules and even create alternate GUIs for them would be nice too. Of course, I think that the GUIs in netpd are one of the most attractive aspects for new users (and people like me who appreciate thoughtful design). So it sounds like Georg is offering to add this stuff to CVS. What are the major decisions then that need to be made to get this thing rolling? I've got these: 1) Decide whether or not to take a static sampling of the netpd community at a certain point, or keep this updated fluidly like netpd itself. 2) Decide if the files will emulate netpd by mimicking the _controller.pd patch and server-side communications, or if they will be rewritten in another way. 3) Find the best way to keep the files checked in to cvs. 4) Actually check it in. 5) Test it out. 6) Fix errors. I think that using the namespace features of Pd-extended will be very nice if one would wish to run both the netpd online community, as well as the independent Pd-extended version. Any thoughts or additions to this quick list of steps to be done? ~Kyle On 6/14/07, Roman Haefeli [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 2007-06-12 at 15:17 +0200, Georg Holzmann wrote: Hallo! maybe some chosen patches could be converted to work standalone, but it would be lots of work ... and introduce new bugs. some systems like the fx-library system for the mixer were specially developed that different users can develop effects without touching the mixer itself. somehow that wouldn't make sense in a standalone version. you don't have to convert them - you could add them as they are, so they would work with netpd and are included in pd-extended ... But I don't know much about netpd so I migth be wrong ... two prerequisites must be fullfilled in order to work netpd-patches in standalone mode in pd-extended: a) netpd-abs need to be included as well b) an additional patch, that imitates the netpd-server would be needed. basically that patch would just be: [r netpd-broadcast] | | [r netpd-send] | | | [list split 1] | / | / |/ [s netpd-receive] (yeah, in ascii art you can have segmented patch cords ;-) ) roman ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de -- - - - -- http://perhapsidid.wordpress.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] (netpd)U(Pd-extended), Pd-ext bug-tracker (was Re: elitism, software and academia)
Hello Eni, Enrique Erne a écrit : does getdir work without [import]? regards eni Why wouldn't it work without [import]? I've got it working so fine without the help of any ohter stuff than vanilla. Pk ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] (netpd)U(Pd-extended)
Roman Haefeli a écrit : the aim of netpd is to provide a framework, in which selfwritten code can be used. i think this selfwritten code should stay in the authority of the author and not be moved to some 'superior' authority. something that we all want, are patches, that just work and are portable. i believe that this could rather reached by letting the principles of darwin rule (patches that don't work out of the box or are too complicated won't be used and so not distributed), rather than one needing to play god in order to keep the world running. The word 'Authority' has a downside effect I didn't even expected, because it has an explicit sociological connotation linked to 'superior authority' that doesn't even make sense into the context of gnu softwares. By the way of authority, I mean coordinator(s) that has access to net-pd archives, cvs, or anything, and would communicate with patch authors about things that work, and other things that don't work. Maybe it's too much demanding, especially if there are not a lot of people that has access to the dev/distribution of the main net-pd patches. pk ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] (netpd)U(Pd-extended)
Roman Haefeli a écrit : On Sat, 2007-06-09 at 16:48 +0200, patrice colet wrote: what do you mean with original abstractions ? Let's say: an abstraction that isn't into the pd documentation are you still talking about netpd? roman Well I have to review one more time the definition of original abstractions, for something more general, to say that it's about abstractions outside of any context, and anyway, if this concept was well defined, would it still have an originality? ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] (netpd)U(Pd-extended), Pd-ext bug-tracker (was Re: elitism, software and academia)
i'm glad you like it. was it hard to install? if i'd maintain it into cvs first thing i would do is add plain/basic netpd. then i would add some patches to the 2 directories netpd/patches and netpd/abs. btw. if you disconnect the chat from the netpd server everything works locally. it opens a bridge from [s netpd-broadcast] to [r netpd-receive] i want to know romans opnion about (netpd)U(Pd-extended) On Jun 12, 2007, at 6:38 PM, Kyle Klipowicz wrote: After playing around a little bit with netpd over the past few days, I think that it would be possible to write a dummy _controller.pd that would allow a user to have the netpd experience without an internet connection. Maybe this could be included with a pd-extended netpd library (as well as the REAL controller) so that users could use the modules for their own purposes beyond the collective jam session. Also to Eni, Roman and whoever else is involved: I'm totally impressed by netpd guys! This is a very usable piece of software and the community aspect is very welcoming. Keep up the good work! ~Kyle On 6/12/07, Georg Holzmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hallo! maybe some chosen patches could be converted to work standalone, but it would be lots of work ... and introduce new bugs. some systems like the fx-library system for the mixer were specially developed that different users can develop effects without touching the mixer itself. somehow that wouldn't make sense in a standalone version. you don't have to convert them - you could add them as they are, so they would work with netpd and are included in pd-extended ... But I don't know much about netpd so I migth be wrong ... LG Georg -- - - - -- http://perhapsidid.wordpress.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] {netpd}U{Pd-extended}
Hi Eni~
I also am curious about Roman's opinion, but I'm glad that you're on board!
Installation was surprisingly simple. I just copied the netpd
directory to my normal ~/Pd dir, and edited my .pdrc file for -path
and -helppath stuff. After that, it was a snap to grap the stuff from
you (luckily you checked the netpd chat before work that morning).
I'm completely blown away by the efficiency of the system at handling
all this stuff, especially since it's all written with Pd! I showed my
friend a bit of it tonight, and he was equally excited and impressed
by the sort of anarchic democracy that exists in the netpd performance
world.
As a side question, has anyone ever tried to write all the netpd
events to a [textfile]-based sequencer so that they can easily record
and replay good moments of jam sessions? It seems like it would be
fairly trivial to do this, since all that info is being routed through
the server anyway. This could be the making of a total automation
engine for Pd!
Anyway, I guess we're all waiting for Roman to be done enjoying his
vacation and get back to the screenland to give his thoughts on all of
this.
I'm totally digging the energy flying around this idea.
~Kyle
On 6/13/07, Enrique Erne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
i'm glad you like it. was it hard to install?
if i'd maintain it into cvs first thing i would do is add plain/basic
netpd.
then i would add some patches to the 2 directories netpd/patches and
netpd/abs.
btw. if you disconnect the chat from the netpd server everything works
locally.
it opens a bridge from [s netpd-broadcast] to [r netpd-receive]
i want to know romans opnion about (netpd)U(Pd-extended)
On Jun 12, 2007, at 6:38 PM, Kyle Klipowicz wrote:
After playing around a little bit with netpd over the past few days, I
think that it would be possible to write a dummy _controller.pd that
would allow a user to have the netpd experience without an internet
connection. Maybe this could be included with a pd-extended netpd
library (as well as the REAL controller) so that users could use the
modules for their own purposes beyond the collective jam session.
Also to Eni, Roman and whoever else is involved: I'm totally impressed
by netpd guys! This is a very usable piece of software and the
community aspect is very welcoming. Keep up the good work!
~Kyle
On 6/12/07, Georg Holzmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hallo!
maybe some chosen patches could be converted to work standalone,
but it would be lots of work ... and introduce new bugs.
some systems like the fx-library system for the mixer were
specially developed that different users can develop effects
without touching the mixer itself. somehow that wouldn't make
sense in a standalone version.
you don't have to convert them - you could add them as they are, so
they
would work with netpd and are included in pd-extended ...
But I don't know much about netpd so I migth be wrong ...
LG
Georg
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Re: [PD] (netpd)U(Pd-extended), Pd-ext bug-tracker (was Re: elitism, software and academia)
hello hans On Jun 13, 2007, at 3:46 AM, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: on one hand i would like to see netpd included in pd-extended, but not on cost of the current package. it is important that netpd and all patches work on linux, osx and windows. if people start to write netpd patches with pd-extended and use many externals i'm afraid we are going to have instrument that work on one os and maybe not on the other. netpd would also be a great system to find os-specific bugs :-) This right here outlines the main purpose of Pd-extended: to provide a tested and reliable package that works the same on all OSes. Basically, I think you should pick one platform for netpd, and make sure everything works smoothly on that one. Then worry about the rest. picking one platform for netpd is not possible. i doubt roman will change to osx ;-), people have been developing under all OS. for me there is no current pd-extended on osx 10.3.9 (right now i can't change to 10.4 or linux) Alex Quessy and I tried to run the latest version on netpd working for a network jam last Sunday, we both failed. He got further than me, he got some sounds out, but neither got it all working. what didn't work? that day i saw you guys in the log file.. you managed to login to netpd. unfortunately nobody was there to help you and upload the right patches. downloading all the instruments form the wiki is not ideal to start with netpd. you need at least 3 patches to get a sound: master.pd, qseq2.pd and a drummachine. things like that are not documented anywhere. Both of us know quite a bit about Pd, so I am amazed that newbies get it going (do they?). well they should easily manage to connect and then usually somebody gives a little intro to the netpd jungle. at the moment only newbies on windows have a double clickable netpd package. the package on osx is currently not working because of 10.3/10.4/ppc/intel + externals . there never was a linux package so far. It would very nice if it was just plug and play. It would not be that hard to do it. I think you could spend a day on it and have it working smoothly. It would be very worthwhile, but I think you have already spent far more time trying to help people get it going than it would take to fix things. that's true. what do you suggest? what technology would be required? i think getdir would solve the whole path issue. does getdir work without [import]? since we netload patches with openpanel it would be better to have the netpd directory not inside the .app , but it would be indise the .app if it is in the cvs right? regards eni ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] {netpd}U{Pd-extended}
hi Kyle On Jun 13, 2007, at 9:30 AM, Kyle Klipowicz wrote: anarchic democracy that exists in the netpd performance world. hehe, nice expression. As a side question, has anyone ever tried to write all the netpd events to a [textfile]-based sequencer so that they can easily record and replay good moments of jam sessions? It seems like it would be fairly trivial to do this, since all that info is being routed through the server anyway. This could be the making of a total automation engine for Pd! yep there was a working patch with qlist. http://www.netpd.org/NetpdPlayer but be aware it records whole patches and abstractions as well. maybe it could [route #N #X] before recording to get rid of the pd-files. the difficult part would be to build a nice score to after edit the recorded data. ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] (netpd)U(Pd-extended), Pd-ext bug-tracker (was Re: elitism, software and academia)
On Jun 13, 2007, at 4:10 AM, Enrique Erne wrote: hello hans On Jun 13, 2007, at 3:46 AM, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: on one hand i would like to see netpd included in pd-extended, but not on cost of the current package. it is important that netpd and all patches work on linux, osx and windows. if people start to write netpd patches with pd-extended and use many externals i'm afraid we are going to have instrument that work on one os and maybe not on the other. netpd would also be a great system to find os-specific bugs :-) This right here outlines the main purpose of Pd-extended: to provide a tested and reliable package that works the same on all OSes. Basically, I think you should pick one platform for netpd, and make sure everything works smoothly on that one. Then worry about the rest. picking one platform for netpd is not possible. i doubt roman will change to osx ;-), people have been developing under all OS. for me there is no current pd-extended on osx 10.3.9 (right now i can't change to 10.4 or linux) Sorry, I should have used a different word. By platform, I mean pd- vanilla, pd-extended, desiredata, pd-devel, jmax, whatever. I did not mean choose an OS. For things not supported on that platform would have to be taken care of by the patch authors. Alex Quessy and I tried to run the latest version on netpd working for a network jam last Sunday, we both failed. He got further than me, he got some sounds out, but neither got it all working. what didn't work? that day i saw you guys in the log file.. you managed to login to netpd. unfortunately nobody was there to help you and upload the right patches. downloading all the instruments form the wiki is not ideal to start with netpd. you need at least 3 patches to get a sound: master.pd, qseq2.pd and a drummachine. things like that are not documented anywhere. A bunch of things, missing objects, crashes, trouble uploading patches. I could only get patches to work when Alex uploaded them from his GNU/Linux machine. I gave up when I got things running, but no instruments would show up to select in the qsec2 scroll bars. I could tweak the sequences that Alex had made. Both of us know quite a bit about Pd, so I am amazed that newbies get it going (do they?). well they should easily manage to connect and then usually somebody gives a little intro to the netpd jungle. at the moment only newbies on windows have a double clickable netpd package. the package on osx is currently not working because of 10.3/10.4/ppc/intel + externals . there never was a linux package so far. It would very nice if it was just plug and play. It would not be that hard to do it. I think you could spend a day on it and have it working smoothly. It would be very worthwhile, but I think you have already spent far more time trying to help people get it going than it would take to fix things. that's true. what do you suggest? what technology would be required? i think getdir would solve the whole path issue. does getdir work without [import]? You can load getdir like this: [ggee/getdir]. But this is what I mean by choose a platform. Pd-extended provides getdir in the same place on all platforms. If you used pd-vanilla, you would then need to bundle getdir for each platform, and so on and so forth. since we netload patches with openpanel it would be better to have the netpd directory not inside the .app , but it would be indise the .app if it is in the cvs right? I think it should not be too hard to make netpd double-clickable with no extra setup at all (setting .pdrc, etc.) without embedding it into it's own Pd install. The key is just trying it on other people's machines, and finding the common access methods that work across OSes. .hc regards eni There is no way to peace, peace is the way. -A.J. Muste ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] {netpd}U{Pd-extended}
Kyle, I agree with your impression of this anarchic democracy. These guys were generous enough to let me sit in with them when I was in in Zurich and I was really impressed. They also cooked me dinner. As a relative beginner I had Netpd up and running easily. cheers to Enrique, Moritz, and Roman greg On 6/13/07, Enrique Erne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hi Kyle On Jun 13, 2007, at 9:30 AM, Kyle Klipowicz wrote: anarchic democracy that exists in the netpd performance world. hehe, nice expression. As a side question, has anyone ever tried to write all the netpd events to a [textfile]-based sequencer so that they can easily record and replay good moments of jam sessions? It seems like it would be fairly trivial to do this, since all that info is being routed through the server anyway. This could be the making of a total automation engine for Pd! yep there was a working patch with qlist. http://www.netpd.org/NetpdPlayer but be aware it records whole patches and abstractions as well. maybe it could [route #N #X] before recording to get rid of the pd-files. the difficult part would be to build a nice score to after edit the recorded data. ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] (netpd)U(Pd-extended), Pd-ext bug-tracker (was Re: elitism, software and academia)
Hallo! maybe some chosen patches could be converted to work standalone, but it would be lots of work ... and introduce new bugs. some systems like the fx-library system for the mixer were specially developed that different users can develop effects without touching the mixer itself. somehow that wouldn't make sense in a standalone version. you don't have to convert them - you could add them as they are, so they would work with netpd and are included in pd-extended ... But I don't know much about netpd so I migth be wrong ... LG Georg ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] (netpd)U(Pd-extended), Pd-ext bug-tracker (was Re: elitism, software and academia)
After playing around a little bit with netpd over the past few days, I think that it would be possible to write a dummy _controller.pd that would allow a user to have the netpd experience without an internet connection. Maybe this could be included with a pd-extended netpd library (as well as the REAL controller) so that users could use the modules for their own purposes beyond the collective jam session. Also to Eni, Roman and whoever else is involved: I'm totally impressed by netpd guys! This is a very usable piece of software and the community aspect is very welcoming. Keep up the good work! ~Kyle On 6/12/07, Georg Holzmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hallo! maybe some chosen patches could be converted to work standalone, but it would be lots of work ... and introduce new bugs. some systems like the fx-library system for the mixer were specially developed that different users can develop effects without touching the mixer itself. somehow that wouldn't make sense in a standalone version. you don't have to convert them - you could add them as they are, so they would work with netpd and are included in pd-extended ... But I don't know much about netpd so I migth be wrong ... LG Georg -- - - - -- http://perhapsidid.wordpress.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] (netpd)U(Pd-extended), Pd-ext bug-tracker (was Re: elitism, software and academia)
On Jun 9, 2007, at 5:45 AM, Enrique Erne wrote: I am now wondering something: why haven't these awesomely functional netpd object been included as abstractions within Pd-extended?!?! on one hand i would like to see netpd included in pd-extended, but not on cost of the current package. it is important that netpd and all patches work on linux, osx and windows. if people start to write netpd patches with pd-extended and use many externals i'm afraid we are going to have instrument that work on one os and maybe not on the other. netpd would also be a great system to find os-specific bugs :-) This right here outlines the main purpose of Pd-extended: to provide a tested and reliable package that works the same on all OSes. Basically, I think you should pick one platform for netpd, and make sure everything works smoothly on that one. Then worry about the rest. Alex Quessy and I tried to run the latest version on netpd working for a network jam last Sunday, we both failed. He got further than me, he got some sounds out, but neither got it all working. Both of us know quite a bit about Pd, so I am amazed that newbies get it going (do they?). It would very nice if it was just plug and play. It would not be that hard to do it. I think you could spend a day on it and have it working smoothly. It would be very worthwhile, but I think you have already spent far more time trying to help people get it going than it would take to fix things. .hc Yes, would be nice - someone would have to integrate them to pd-extended (using [import] and etc.) ... are you talking about basic netpd or netpd all the instruments... basic netpd is written by Roman Haefeli all the instruments have at least 10 different authors. ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list 'You people have such restrictive dress for women,’ she said, hobbling away in three inch heels and panty hose to finish out another pink-collar temp pool day. - “Hijab Scene #2, by Mohja Kahf ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] (netpd)U(Pd-extended), Pd-ext bug-tracker (was Re: elitism, software and academia)
Hallo! I am not meaning that people will add to netpd from Pd-extended. Rather, it would be neat to 'steal' the great functional modules that are in netpd and use them as standalone modules for rapid building of non-netpd patches. Say, if a person has been using Reason for a few years, but wants to upgrade. The netpd abstractions that I've looked over on the netpd site seem to be fairly strait forward in GUI and purpose that a Reason Seasoned (couldn't resist the rhyme) user could take these modules and build their own patches with them, APART from netpd. Rather than reinvent the wheel, why not take the fruits of the netpd community and make them accessible to users who might just want a wikkid bassline or GOP mixer abstraction? Yes, that's also what I meant - this would be nice ... I don't know who is the maintainer of the netpd community - maybe someone could maintain these objects in CVS ? (then this could be also used as a central place for checking out the latest patches ...) If it is not changing too much I can also add them to CVS ... LG Georg ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] (netpd)U(Pd-extended)
grüezi patrice On Jun 10, 2007, at 5:41 PM, patrice colet wrote: Le dimanche 10 juin 2007 à 12:24 +0200, Enrique Erne a écrit : please tell me which patch is missing an abstraction and where you got it from, sp i can fix it. at least it should be mentioned in the wiki. Concerning net-pd, I'd rather have suggestions that certainly won't be taken into account, because I've ever given a try in net-pd chat, it's about aesthetic of some patches, for example, one you've developped called 'jamx'; this sequencer is very usefull, ... but it misses very handfull things for composing faster, like copy-paste between each page, colored buttons. Let alone the missing polyphonic stuff, I know how it could be difficult to make one with pd-vanilla gui, and that you have ever done a good very job. it would be very nice to have copy/paste shouldn't be to hard actually. also polyphony would be awesome... although i don' think it's a good idea to make jamx polyphonic, since all synths using it are monophonic anyway and the gui would be to overloaded (16*32 toggles ?) i'm just happy that jamx works as far as i know without bugs .. it took quite a while, the version is 0.1.26 :-) my focus is more on mMm ... that we have a good arranger/sequencer here but no time right now. :-( i don't know if creator can update itself, but that sounds like micrsoft/apple new software has been installed, your computer is ready to restart :-) My mind might be corrupted by long years of composing on such environment, :D netclient/netserver sends ascii data which we use for patches and control information. Oh yes, and haven't you developped a patch that dynamically build patches from pd files, it's very interesting, I think it could be used for implementing on net-pd environment any pd-vanilla patch with replacing adc~ dac~ for connecting it to the mixer, sorry, my head is full of those kinds of crappy ideas...:p yes that was [PD] slowly load a pd-patches/abs without dropouts would be interesting to see if that concept worked with dyn~ it would need a converter i believe but dyn~ has some limitations i think you can't use s~ or similar.. i personally don't like the idea of an authority deciding which patches get accepted for the netpd project. i prefer the free direct system it now has. if you fix a bug just increase the version msg and netload it again. every user connected get's the fix. all the user have the same rights. no royalty. no animalfarm also the server is only the gate to others.. it doesn't do much else than sending the incoming msgs to the connected users. Agreed. see links http://www.netpd.org/mx http://www.netpd.org/I2mx http://www.netpd.org/HowtoBuildFx4Mx Ok, thanks. i don't think that it is a good idea to put these instructions into the abstractions. not even an html link? you're right. i'll add the link next time. also you are very welcome to login the netpd chat and ask before you spend other 2 hours. I'll be glad to have a jam session soon... maybe today with roman in vienna ? regards eni Best, Patko. ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] (netpd)U(Pd-extended), Pd-ext bug-tracker (was Re: elitism, software and academia)
hi Georg On Jun 11, 2007, at 9:25 AM, Georg Holzmann wrote: I am not meaning that people will add to netpd from Pd-extended. Rather, it would be neat to 'steal' the great functional modules that are in netpd and use them as standalone modules for rapid building of non-netpd patches. Say, if a person has been using Reason for a few years, but wants to upgrade. The netpd abstractions that I've looked over on the netpd site seem to be fairly strait forward in GUI and purpose that a Reason Seasoned (couldn't resist the rhyme) user could take these modules and build their own patches with them, APART from netpd. Rather than reinvent the wheel, why not take the fruits of the netpd community and make them accessible to users who might just want a wikkid bassline or GOP mixer abstraction? Yes, that's also what I meant - this would be nice ... I don't know who is the maintainer of the netpd community - maybe hehe ... well who is the maintainer of the puredata community ? the netpd-wiki is open. everyone can edit and add to the wiki and many did so. maybe some chosen patches could be converted to work standalone, but it would be lots of work ... and introduce new bugs. some systems like the fx-library system for the mixer were specially developed that different users can develop effects without touching the mixer itself. somehow that wouldn't make sense in a standalone version. someone could maintain these objects in CVS ? (then this could be also used as a central place for checking out the latest patches ...) well not for netpd itself. - if they have to be standalone i guess they wouldn't work anymore with netpd - if you would include the original patches then i'd rather add only netpd and let the user download the newest patches over netpd. - an other disadvantage of the cvs (please correct me if i'm wrong) one has to be pd-dev to make changes in cvs, that means not everybody could add netpd-patches to the central place ... also in my eyes the netpd wiki is _not_ the central place to add patches. it is only a public place to show some patches or write documentation for it. i think the central place to add netpd-patches is netloading patches in _creator.pd . btw. mMm is working standalone but unlike a netpd-instrument it doesn't use the usual netpd-abstractions. so far... well i have to go back to work and would like to know romans opinion about this topic. cheers eni ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] (netpd)U(Pd-extended), Pd-ext bug-tracker (was Re: elitism, software and academia)
good morning Kyle i would only add the basic netpd to Pd-extended without any instrument, so that any user can get the newest version of the instruments through creator without maintaining all the instruments in cvs. the netpd-instruments are using some basic netpd-abstractions for broadcasting, synchronizing and statesaving so they wont work without netpd anyway. little correction: the instruments are not Graph On Parent abstractions but patches with their GUI in a subpatch named: [pd synthname-gui] i'm pretty green about cvs. over the pasat 3 years there have been at least 10 different people writing instruments for netpd. how is this done in other projects... like pixeltango or rradical are they maintained in cvs by one person or has anybody access to change everything? regards eni On Jun 9, 2007, at 3:57 PM, Kyle Klipowicz wrote: Yes, what I am talking about is not to add 'netpd the whole application' to Pd-extended, but merely the modules, which are functional and quite useful on their own. These seem to be the best developed set of GOP objects that would be immediately understandable to those coming from the Reason/Reaktor/AudioMulch/whatever crowd, and would serve as a nice entry point to Pd even when removed from the context of internet collaborative performance (which is still a WAY cool concept, Roman!). In the next week or so, I will start tinkering with some patches to see how well they integrate in my local Pd-extended distribution. If the go ahead is there from the netpd community, I'll try to write up a quick proposal to include these in the Pd-extended distro. Roman, how would I go about getting permission to distribute the patches in this way? If this were to happen, would that require that the patches be maintained in cvs separate from the netpd application page? I'm pretty green at this sort of thing, but it seems like something that would be a great benefit, and which I might actually be able to help with. So please, feedback anyone? ~Kyle On 6/9/07, Enrique Erne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am now wondering something: why haven't these awesomely functional netpd object been included as abstractions within Pd-extended?!?! on one hand i would like to see netpd included in pd-extended, but not on cost of the current package. it is important that netpd and all patches work on linux, osx and windows. if people start to write netpd patches with pd-extended and use many externals i'm afraid we are going to have instrument that work on one os and maybe not on the other. netpd would also be a great system to find os-specific bugs :-) Yes, would be nice - someone would have to integrate them to pd-extended (using [import] and etc.) ... are you talking about basic netpd or netpd all the instruments... basic netpd is written by Roman Haefeli all the instruments have at least 10 different authors. -- - - - -- http://perhapsidid.wordpress.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] (netpd)U(Pd-extended), Pd-ext bug-tracker (was Re: elitism, software and academia)
Hallo, Enrique Erne hat gesagt: // Enrique Erne wrote: i'm pretty green about cvs. over the pasat 3 years there have been at least 10 different people writing instruments for netpd. how is this done in other projects... like pixeltango or rradical are they maintained in cvs by one person or has anybody access to change everything? It depends. Generally the CVS on Sourceforge has almost no access control: Everyone can overwrite everyone else's patches. It's based on trust that this doesn't happen unless with permission. Some sub-projects are maintained by several people, like mapping, which is Hans and Cyrille and maybe more, or purepd which contains patches by several people. Others are more a one-person issue, like RTC-lib. Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org_ __goto10.org__ ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] (netpd)U(Pd-extended), Pd-ext bug-tracker (was Re: elitism, software and academia)
On Jun 9, 2007, at 4:11 PM, Kyle Klipowicz wrote: On that tip, I'm curious if there is a tarball of all the current netpd instrument/effects/utility abstractions, there is no tarball. and if there would be it would be not up to date within short time. of will I have to go to each description page on the netpd site? i wouldn't do that because there are not all instruments available. and maybe it's not the newest version. somebody could make an archive of his current netpd directory and send it to you. or we check the idea of adding only netpd to the cvs and so everybody can get it online. if people start writing patches using pd-extended and all it's externals we will probably have many new external related and os specific bugs and patches that wont work on everybody's system. The largest challenge with this idea is the extra machinery for synchronization between netpd elements. why do you want a extra machinery .. there is synchronization from a patch called master.pd (global metro) However, this machinery is ideal for implementing a preset system for the instruments, so that could be very nice. there has been a state saving system for a long time and on it a preset administrator (which i just fixed yesterday) ~Kyle ciao eni On 6/9/07, Kyle Klipowicz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, what I am talking about is not to add 'netpd the whole application' to Pd-extended, but merely the modules, which are functional and quite useful on their own. These seem to be the best developed set of GOP objects that would be immediately understandable to those coming from the Reason/Reaktor/AudioMulch/whatever crowd, and would serve as a nice entry point to Pd even when removed from the context of internet collaborative performance (which is still a WAY cool concept, Roman!). In the next week or so, I will start tinkering with some patches to see how well they integrate in my local Pd-extended distribution. If the go ahead is there from the netpd community, I'll try to write up a quick proposal to include these in the Pd-extended distro. Roman, how would I go about getting permission to distribute the patches in this way? If this were to happen, would that require that the patches be maintained in cvs separate from the netpd application page? I'm pretty green at this sort of thing, but it seems like something that would be a great benefit, and which I might actually be able to help with. So please, feedback anyone? ~Kyle On 6/9/07, Enrique Erne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am now wondering something: why haven't these awesomely functional netpd object been included as abstractions within Pd-extended?!?! on one hand i would like to see netpd included in pd-extended, but not on cost of the current package. it is important that netpd and all patches work on linux, osx and windows. if people start to write netpd patches with pd-extended and use many externals i'm afraid we are going to have instrument that work on one os and maybe not on the other. netpd would also be a great system to find os-specific bugs :-) Yes, would be nice - someone would have to integrate them to pd-extended (using [import] and etc.) ... are you talking about basic netpd or netpd all the instruments... basic netpd is written by Roman Haefeli all the instruments have at least 10 different authors. -- - - - -- http://perhapsidid.wordpress.com -- - - - -- http://perhapsidid.wordpress.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] (netpd)U(Pd-extended)
Good afternoon, Eni, :) Le dimanche 10 juin 2007 à 12:24 +0200, Enrique Erne a écrit : good morning patrice i thought you got the patch through netpd's creator. I'm sorry, I've mixed two different discussions, this part wasn't net-pd related. please tell me which patch is missing an abstraction and where you got it from, sp i can fix it. at least it should be mentioned in the wiki. Concerning net-pd, I'd rather have suggestions that certainly won't be taken into account, because I've ever given a try in net-pd chat, it's about aesthetic of some patches, for example, one you've developped called 'jamx'; this sequencer is very usefull, ... but it misses very handfull things for composing faster, like copy-paste between each page, colored buttons. Let alone the missing polyphonic stuff, I know how it could be difficult to make one with pd-vanilla gui, and that you have ever done a good very job. i don't know if creator can update itself, but that sounds like micrsoft/apple new software has been installed, your computer is ready to restart :-) My mind might be corrupted by long years of composing on such environment, :D netclient/netserver sends ascii data which we use for patches and control information. Oh yes, and haven't you developped a patch that dynamically build patches from pd files, it's very interesting, I think it could be used for implementing on net-pd environment any pd-vanilla patch with replacing adc~ dac~ for connecting it to the mixer, sorry, my head is full of those kinds of crappy ideas...:p i personally don't like the idea of an authority deciding which patches get accepted for the netpd project. i prefer the free direct system it now has. if you fix a bug just increase the version msg and netload it again. every user connected get's the fix. all the user have the same rights. no royalty. no animalfarm also the server is only the gate to others.. it doesn't do much else than sending the incoming msgs to the connected users. Agreed. see links http://www.netpd.org/mx http://www.netpd.org/I2mx http://www.netpd.org/HowtoBuildFx4Mx Ok, thanks. i don't think that it is a good idea to put these instructions into the abstractions. not even an html link? also you are very welcome to login the netpd chat and ask before you spend other 2 hours. I'll be glad to have a jam session soon... regards eni Best, Patko. ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] (netpd)U(Pd-extended) (was Re: elitism, software and academia)
hi patko net-pd works very good, and can be installed in a minute. it's not really one distribution like everyone would make, in my eyes, but one distribution that everyone would use, a kind of stable funny release of the pd stuff. Many patches won't work out of the box almost always because it will miss an external, or an abstraction, here we come again on the fact that the patches misses some comments, if you miss an abstraction there is something wrong with your setup. i think i can say _every_ netpd-patch that uses abstractions has a subpatch [pd abslist] with a list of msgs containing all used abstractions. when one netloads a patch, _creator.pd will read the abslist and tells all the users that it is going to upload a patch with the specific abstractions and version number. i.e. of sumsum.pd ( [r netpd-broadcast]-[print] ) print: cr.postloadrequest 4 print: cr.filecheck abs/jamx.pd a 0.1.26 4 print: cr.filecheck abs/pad.pd a 0.2.12 4 print: cr.filecheck abs/i2mx~.pd a 0.6.28 4 print: cr.filecheck abs/mx_manager.pd a 0.6.16 4 print: cr.filecheck abs/if4.pd a 0.0.0 4 print: cr.filecheck abs/mx_manager.pd a 0.6.16 4 print: cr.filecheck /Users/pd/netpd/patches/sumsum.pd p 0.3.5 4 print: sumsum.dumpreqreqreq 4 since creator v1.4.3 it is even possible to have an abslist in an abstraction itself and because i didn't updated sumsum.pd it checks mx_manager.pd twice. mx_manager.pd is an abstraction of i2mx~.pd therefore i could/should remove it from the sumsum.pd abslist. externals: atm netpd needs maxlib and zexy. which are included in the pd-netpd packages. if you want to use all the instruments made so far (they are not included in basic netpd and u don't have to use them), you have to add iemlibs and iemmatrix (included in pd-netpd). iemlibs was added when syntax the nerd joined netpd and ported some of his bag of tricks. at the time i wrote jamx i still had zexy1.3 with an included matrix. but matrix has moved to iemmatrix in zexy2.1. many netpd patches use jamx as mono-note-sequencer and so they all need iemmatrix. one patch uses creb's blosc~ and resofilt~ but that never worked for me on osx and so i have never heard this synth :-( . *ultra high sarcastic mode, sensible mind don't read* no problem if there is not room enough to put the name of the dependances, like in almost all example patches, or original abstractions, why not replacing the name of the autor with something more usefull... the only useful about the name is that you can blame the person who wrote the patch ;-) *end of ultra sarcastic mode* ... seriously: at least you can talk to the author and ask him about the patch. so far i tried to put info into the netpd.org wiki . have you ever have a look there ? i.e. http://www.netpd.org/Sumsum all the sites are here: http://www.netpd.org/NetpdPatches/contents#Sumsum i was thinking about removing my name from the patches and make it more welcome for changes (see kyle's movie about os)... so far we were cautious in changing others patches. usually we change the name ultrahardcoresynth-eni.pd and do changes and suggest it to the original author... but many authors are not active.. hmm that's an other topic. what information would you like to see in the patches ? - dependencies... what do you mean with original abstractions ? Thanks for letting me advocating my point of view, Patko. regards eni ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] (netpd)U(Pd-extended), Pd-ext bug-tracker (was Re: elitism, software and academia)
Hallo! Yes, would be nice - someone would have to integrate them to pd-extended (using [import] and etc.) ... Everyone could integreate them to her/his own pd-extended using a simple -path flatspace, as AFAIK everything netpd uses is already there and people not using pd-extended wouldn't have tons of import: couldn't create error messages. No, zexy and iemlib is not in flatspace ... LG Georg ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] (netpd)U(Pd-extended), Pd-ext bug-tracker (was Re: elitism, software and academia)
Yes, what I am talking about is not to add 'netpd the whole application' to Pd-extended, but merely the modules, which are functional and quite useful on their own. These seem to be the best developed set of GOP objects that would be immediately understandable to those coming from the Reason/Reaktor/AudioMulch/whatever crowd, and would serve as a nice entry point to Pd even when removed from the context of internet collaborative performance (which is still a WAY cool concept, Roman!). In the next week or so, I will start tinkering with some patches to see how well they integrate in my local Pd-extended distribution. If the go ahead is there from the netpd community, I'll try to write up a quick proposal to include these in the Pd-extended distro. Roman, how would I go about getting permission to distribute the patches in this way? If this were to happen, would that require that the patches be maintained in cvs separate from the netpd application page? I'm pretty green at this sort of thing, but it seems like something that would be a great benefit, and which I might actually be able to help with. So please, feedback anyone? ~Kyle On 6/9/07, Enrique Erne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am now wondering something: why haven't these awesomely functional netpd object been included as abstractions within Pd-extended?!?! on one hand i would like to see netpd included in pd-extended, but not on cost of the current package. it is important that netpd and all patches work on linux, osx and windows. if people start to write netpd patches with pd-extended and use many externals i'm afraid we are going to have instrument that work on one os and maybe not on the other. netpd would also be a great system to find os-specific bugs :-) Yes, would be nice - someone would have to integrate them to pd-extended (using [import] and etc.) ... are you talking about basic netpd or netpd all the instruments... basic netpd is written by Roman Haefeli all the instruments have at least 10 different authors. -- - - - -- http://perhapsidid.wordpress.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] (netpd)U(Pd-extended), Pd-ext bug-tracker (was Re: elitism, software and academia)
On that tip, I'm curious if there is a tarball of all the current netpd instrument/effects/utility abstractions, of will I have to go to each description page on the netpd site? The largest challenge with this idea is the extra machinery for synchronization between netpd elements. However, this machinery is ideal for implementing a preset system for the instruments, so that could be very nice. ~Kyle On 6/9/07, Kyle Klipowicz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, what I am talking about is not to add 'netpd the whole application' to Pd-extended, but merely the modules, which are functional and quite useful on their own. These seem to be the best developed set of GOP objects that would be immediately understandable to those coming from the Reason/Reaktor/AudioMulch/whatever crowd, and would serve as a nice entry point to Pd even when removed from the context of internet collaborative performance (which is still a WAY cool concept, Roman!). In the next week or so, I will start tinkering with some patches to see how well they integrate in my local Pd-extended distribution. If the go ahead is there from the netpd community, I'll try to write up a quick proposal to include these in the Pd-extended distro. Roman, how would I go about getting permission to distribute the patches in this way? If this were to happen, would that require that the patches be maintained in cvs separate from the netpd application page? I'm pretty green at this sort of thing, but it seems like something that would be a great benefit, and which I might actually be able to help with. So please, feedback anyone? ~Kyle On 6/9/07, Enrique Erne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am now wondering something: why haven't these awesomely functional netpd object been included as abstractions within Pd-extended?!?! on one hand i would like to see netpd included in pd-extended, but not on cost of the current package. it is important that netpd and all patches work on linux, osx and windows. if people start to write netpd patches with pd-extended and use many externals i'm afraid we are going to have instrument that work on one os and maybe not on the other. netpd would also be a great system to find os-specific bugs :-) Yes, would be nice - someone would have to integrate them to pd-extended (using [import] and etc.) ... are you talking about basic netpd or netpd all the instruments... basic netpd is written by Roman Haefeli all the instruments have at least 10 different authors. -- - - - -- http://perhapsidid.wordpress.com -- - - - -- http://perhapsidid.wordpress.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] (netpd)U(Pd-extended)
(assuming that this message didn't arrive to the list, sorry if you've received this mail twice, I've also corrected the end of the message) Hi eni, Le samedi 09 juin 2007 à 11:26 +0200, Enrique Erne a écrit : hi patko if you miss an abstraction there is something wrong with your setup. No, I seriously think that if I miss an abstraction, there is something wrong with the documentation, or comments, and I am not talking about net-pd. I'd rather rebuild my own set of abstractions than looking for the missing patch if I have to surf internet, ask questions to pd-list for getting answers. An undocumented patch is almost always a waste of time for every pd users. I can tell this for myself too. i think i can say _every_ netpd-patch that uses abstractions has a subpatch [pd abslist] with a list of msgs containing all used abstractions. when one netloads a patch, _creator.pd will read the abslist and tells all the users that it is going to upload a patch with the specific abstractions and version number. Yes, that's a very cool functionning, it could save everyone a lot of time, and it would be even better if _creator.pd was able to update itself, and why not letting it update absolutely all the files (even the ones in the bin directory)? It would certainly require a 'pd repositories'. i was thinking about removing my name from the patches and make it more welcome for changes (see kyle's movie about os)... so far we were cautious in changing others patches. usually we change the name ultrahardcoresynth-eni.pd and do changes and suggest it to the original author... but many authors are not active.. hmm that's an other topic. Instead of uploading abstraction from a net-pd user's computer, it might be better if the abstraction were uploaded from a net-pd repository. Any one that would like to add abstractions to net-pd would have to submit them to an active authority of the net-pd project, then it would avoid a lot of mistakes, and the autor would still be referenced but rather in a net-pd database than into the patch, were more usefull information could be displayed. what information would you like to see in the patches ? I simply would like to be able to understand without having to browse all patches and subpatches hundreds of times for having a clue about how the objects are functionning. For example if I want to put an FX-insert into an net-pd instrument I've made, I take a look at how it has been implemented in other intruments and in the mixer, and I give up after two hours because it's a real mess, there is absolutely no explanations anywhere. Just seeing 'information' would be a good start, ;). - dependencies... Well I hope you've seen that we are talking about two different things through this discussion, net-pd and pd-extended, and net-pd allready resolve this 'dependence' problem with [pd abslist]. Maybe [import] in pd-extended would fix missing externals, with at least giving the name of the missing ones. what do you mean with original abstractions ? Let's say: an abstraction that isn't into the pd documentation ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] (netpd)U(Pd-extended), Pd-ext bug-tracker (was Re: elitism, software and academia)
You can submit edited patches to the bug tracker on the sourceforge page [http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=55736atid=478070 direct link]. I am now wondering something: why haven't these awesomely functional netpd object been included as abstractions within Pd-extended?!?! Seriously, they are the most functional and useable get-started-out-of-box things to represent Pd around, and they are not in Pd-extended! ~Kyle On 6/8/07, patrice colet [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Le vendredi 08 juin 2007 à 21:35 +0200, Georg Holzmann a écrit : And you are invited to help - cleaning up some patches, adding comments, include out-of-the-box examples, Where would I submit corrected files? -- - - - -- http://perhapsidid.wordpress.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] (netpd)U(Pd-extended), Pd-ext bug-tracker (was Re: elitism, software and academia)
Hallo! You can submit edited patches to the bug tracker on the sourceforge page [http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=55736atid=478070 direct link]. Yes, or if you have a useful bundle of patches that work out of the box with pd extended just send them to me or to the list and I will add them to the abstractions of pd extended ... Or you could of course also correct some of the already included abstractions (which are quite a lot) - because most of the don't work out of the box with all the externals ! I am now wondering something: why haven't these awesomely functional netpd object been included as abstractions within Pd-extended?!?! Yes, would be nice - someone would have to integrate them to pd-extended (using [import] and etc.) ... LG Georg ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] netPD gig anyone? In Oz/Asia/USA Timezone?
Anyone in my timezone (Australia) up for a netPD jam? *May* have a net connection at a demo i am giving for a couple of afternoons. This comming weekend in fact. Saturday Sunday. Would be nice if there were others online at the time (noon onwards Sydney time, 3am onwards GMT). http://jo.koan.net/pingdom This would be a first in Australia (although as low profile as could be). Am sure more opportunities like this will arise so even if i can't get a net connection this weekend, it would be good to know other netPD musicians in my half of the globe. sqgl -- A suicide attack on Bush or Howard would be a poor exchange of life since there are many potential Bushs Howards in the wings (greedy, myopic, selfish, deceitful, racist, materialistic) yet not so many people willing to lay down their life for the benefit of the world community and the planet. -- The Pope?... if he would Pop E? :) ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] netpd download all patch
ah, there is your mail. for me, your mails seem to be written in the future :-), that is why i am overlooking them sometimes... On Tue, 2006-11-14 at 03:12 +, padawan12 wrote: Great stuff. I need to study those and see how you hook the interface level up to net-pd. Just a question of finding the time so I'm very pleased you already converted some of mine to net-pd. How do they perform? Is there a net-pd howto or something? yes, there is a very cheap little tutorial in netpd (netpd/tut) How does net-pd handle time/synchronous alignment and that sort of thing? btw, I listened to some output from net-pd radio and I hear some very impressive jams happening. How do you record them? there is a simple patch called 'recorder' ( http://www.netpd.org/recorder ) , which records the output of the netpd-mixer called 'mx' (http://www.netpd.org/mx ). so, recording happens on the client side. anyway it is better to record in the same instance of pd, cause like that no dropouts and glitches are recorded. Does each machine run all the synths (replicated version of one setup) or do they pipe audio back to a node that does the recording. Much I don't understand. best, Andy On Sun, 12 Nov 2006 07:50:03 +0100 moritz w. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ola padawan, i've made already a netpd-patch with some of your sound-design stuff. (with a lot of [switch~]es in it) ---im a big fan off your tut's and gizmos! [cheers~] moritz (the attached patch works only with netpd) Original-Nachricht Datum: Sat, 11 Nov 2006 23:07:54 + Von: padawan12 [EMAIL PROTECTED] An: pd-list@iem.at Betreff: Re: [PD] netpd download all patch Yeah, I've been looking at it a lot recently. Even if your not into music (and right now really only techno music) net-pd sets a really good standard for pd programming and encapsulation, and probably represents the best of UI practice using only the intrinsic components. I'm thinking next year I will start to move the music synth (toys and gizmos) part of my work towards net-pd because it represents an important versioning commonality to share patches which the wider Pd lacks. There's still room for improving it too. I have some ideas I'm mulling over to do with distributed composition which I hope to add some day and net-pd seems the obvious place to try these out. If you're in London today at the Openlab3 meet we will hopefully get to try out setup based on OSC to perform with simple distributed synthesisers on a LAN. On Sat, 11 Nov 2006 12:18:02 +0800 Chris McCormick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Nov 09, 2006 at 10:40:39AM +0100, Roman Haefeli wrote: i hope you'll have fun with netpd. I just wanted to jump in on this thread to say that I find netpd to be one of the most exciting things I have seen in electronic music ever. Thanks so much Roman and all the other contributors for making it. You guys are really pushing new frontiers with this. If anyone hasn't tried it yet, you should get into it! Best, Chris. --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mccormick.cx ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- Ein Herz für Kinder - Ihre Spende hilft! Aktion: www.deutschlandsegelt.de Unser Dankeschön: Ihr Name auf dem Segel der 1. deutschen America's Cup-Yacht! ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Der fr�he Vogel f�ngt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] netpd download all patch
Is there a net-pd howto or something? yes, there is a very cheap little tutorial in netpd (netpd/tut) some useful links here: http://www.netpd.org/Devel ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] netpd download all patch
hm, attached package should have (i hope) all abstractions for playstation.pd [eo~] moritz Original-Nachricht Datum: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 07:50:03 +0100 Von: moritz w. [EMAIL PROTECTED] An: padawan12 [EMAIL PROTECTED], pd-list@iem.at Betreff: Re: [PD] netpd download all patch ola padawan, i've made already a netpd-patch with some of your sound-design stuff. (with a lot of [switch~]es in it) ---im a big fan off your tut's and gizmos! [cheers~] moritz (the attached patch works only with netpd) Original-Nachricht Datum: Sat, 11 Nov 2006 23:07:54 + Von: padawan12 [EMAIL PROTECTED] An: pd-list@iem.at Betreff: Re: [PD] netpd download all patch Yeah, I've been looking at it a lot recently. Even if your not into music (and right now really only techno music) net-pd sets a really good standard for pd programming and encapsulation, and probably represents the best of UI practice using only the intrinsic components. I'm thinking next year I will start to move the music synth (toys and gizmos) part of my work towards net-pd because it represents an important versioning commonality to share patches which the wider Pd lacks. There's still room for improving it too. I have some ideas I'm mulling over to do with distributed composition which I hope to add some day and net-pd seems the obvious place to try these out. If you're in London today at the Openlab3 meet we will hopefully get to try out setup based on OSC to perform with simple distributed synthesisers on a LAN. On Sat, 11 Nov 2006 12:18:02 +0800 Chris McCormick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Nov 09, 2006 at 10:40:39AM +0100, Roman Haefeli wrote: i hope you'll have fun with netpd. I just wanted to jump in on this thread to say that I find netpd to be one of the most exciting things I have seen in electronic music ever. Thanks so much Roman and all the other contributors for making it. You guys are really pushing new frontiers with this. If anyone hasn't tried it yet, you should get into it! Best, Chris. --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mccormick.cx ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- Ein Herz für Kinder - Ihre Spende hilft! Aktion: www.deutschlandsegelt.de Unser Dankeschön: Ihr Name auf dem Segel der 1. deutschen America's Cup-Yacht! -- Ein Herz für Kinder - Ihre Spende hilft! Aktion: www.deutschlandsegelt.de Unser Dankeschön: Ihr Name auf dem Segel der 1. deutschen America's Cup-Yacht! ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] netpd download all patch
hi all, is there a way to download all the netpd-patches (http://www.netpd.org/NetpdPatches\)\? maybe a release each week/month? pat hi pat i know a way to do that. if got 122 patches in my netpd/patches directory and 242 in netpd/abs. some of them are testfiles and some are instruments (snyths/drums/fx). i'd say these patches are made by around 10 people. some are active and others are treasure hunting in panama :-) now to the wiki... many patches are not in the wiki and sometimes it's not the newest version. certain files are plain pd files and then we have zipped archives with many abstractions. some are on the netpd-wiki some are on other servers and just linked. i don't know the best way to store all these patches maybe cvs =? but i don't know cvs at all. the only place i'm sure (at least my patches) are the newest version is my netpd/patches neptd/abs directory. for now the best thing you can do is connect to netpd and ask for instruments. i'd say there are people every day CEST afternoon/evening. we have weekly sessions on thursday (tonight). eni ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] netpd download all patch
On Wed, 2006-11-08 at 22:15 -0500, patrick wrote: is there a way to download all the netpd-patches (http://www.netpd.org/NetpdPatches)? maybe a release each week/month? hi the best option surely is to run netpd - start _chat.pd and open _creator.pd - and ask someone online to open all interesting patches. the wiki on netpd.org is mainly intended to provide some documentation and of course you could also download all single patches from there, but this is a pain. it would be too much work to maintain such an universal package, when _creator.pd does all the dirty work. i hope you'll have fun with netpd. cheers roman ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
