Re: [PD] RIP Ed Kelly

[João Pais]

that is a pity, he was one of the punkiest patchers around and a fun guy.


I'll miss him!
>
> Miller
>
> On 3/11/24 03:31, José Luis Santorcuato Tapia wrote:
> > It's a great shame, I remember him with great joy, I still remember
> > the anecdote about the dog. A great guy.
> > :/
> > José
> >
> > El dom, 10 mar 2024 a las 18:19, Antoine Rousseau
> > () escribió:
> >
> > I'm sad too. I was lucky enough to work with him on NinjaJamm,
> > unfortunately I never met him face to face.
> > He had a very personal way of patching, and I'll never forget him!
> >
> >
> > Le dim. 10 mars 2024 à 22:36, Jaime Oliver
> >  a écrit :
> >
> > Very sad news indeed!
> > Goodbye Ed Kelly!
> > J
> >
> > On Sun, Mar 10, 2024 at 5:07 PM IOhannes m zmölnig
> >  wrote:
> >
> > On 3/10/24 18:49, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
> > > Tehomas Bow on facebook gave us the bad news. He had a
> > stroke and fell, got
> > > injured and passed away this friday. He leaves us soon,
> > just before turning
> > > 50. Ed was quite a fun character, I loved him, he'll be
> > missed. Rest in
> > > Peace.
> >
> >
> > this is indeed sad news.
> > the lone shark now sails uncharted waters.
> >
> > mdsar
> > IOhannes m zmölnig
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Re: [PD] spring modeling/scanned synthesis

[João Pais]

although I'm not a specialist in this, I did manage to understand the 
basics of it enough for people want to hear me:


https://media.ccc.de/v/lac2018-28-introduction_to_pmpd

The materials used are a development of pmpd's materials, with added 
explanations and visualisations.


I know a little bit about filters and will try to investigate more. 
I've been avoiding physical modelling for ages and it seems its 
finally time to dig in :)


Here is the most simple usable structure : a mass and a link.
it look like a 2nd order resonant filter.
now, the challenge is to find the equation that compute K and D from 
frequency and attenuation time.


cheers
c

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Re: [PD] 2D radio buttons object or abstraction?

[João Pais]

Or see [jmmmp/matrixctrl]


Before reinventing the wheel: does anyone know of a library that would 
contain something akin to radio buttons but in 2D?


Thanks!

- martin


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Re: [PD] receive UDP message from 224.0.0.1

[João Pais]

Sorry to break in, but I may be setting up some Windows Pd instances using OSC 
in the near future; is this something that will need to be dealt with even when 
not using multicast?


this problem doesn't happen when not using multicast - which I never 
heard of before this week - but have been using OSC for many years with 
no issues.


But it's confirmed, the problem is with the windows driver (or the 
system, firewall is open or even off for testing). Using ubuntu in both 
laptops I can multicast either to 224.0.0.1 or to the IPs in the help patch.





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Re: [PD] receive UDP message from 224.0.0.1

[João Pais]

I tried again with my 3 computers (all same brand and similar intel 
network hardware) - it seems that the problem is the windows driver that 
doesn't allow multicast. While ubuntu in one of them seems to.




On 12/01/2024 12:56, Christof Ressi wrote:
Back then it did work :) But this was on Windows 7. Will test again 
on Windows 10.



for me on Pd 0.54.1 Win11 it all works as expected. I used the help 
patch and was able to receive from localhost or from a Linux box 
(sending via a Pd 0.53.1). I used the help patch with


Linux machine:

    [connect 239.200.200.200 3005(
    |
    [netsend -u]

Win11 machine:

    [listen 3005 239.200.200.200(
    |
    [netreceive -u -f 3005]





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Re: [PD] receive UDP message from 224.0.0.1

[João Pais]

Are you opening with the following message?

[ listen 57120 224.0.0.1 <
|
[ netreceive -u -b]

The address is within the multicast range, so it needs to be given to 
netreceive in addition to the port.
It doesn't work in windows, but it does in ubuntu - although windows is 
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Re: [PD] receive UDP message from 224.0.0.1

[João Pais]

However, you can check if some other program already uses port 57120! 
On Windows you can do this by running "netstat -abno" in cmd.exe as Admin.



I had a look at the report, 57120 doesn't appear.


Also, have you tried with other port numbers?

This is an open source app. In order to do that I would need to learn 
how to compile it etc. Not impossible to do, but impossible for me.


But see my reply to Dan for a twist.




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Re: [PD] receive UDP message from 224.0.0.1

[João Pais]

I don't use SC, but I'll check anyway if some years ago I installed it and
then forgot about it.

It is a multicast address - I might be able to change it to the normal
broadcast address, but I wouldn't count on it. So for now, it's better to
assume that this can't be changed.

Hmmm... 57120 happens to be the default port of sclang (the SuperCollider
> language interpreter). Could it be that sclang(.exe) is running? Check the
> task manager to be sure.
>
> Explanation: Generally, only one application can listen to a port at a
> time. Normally, applications will just refuse to bind to ports that are
> already taken. However, Pd sets the SO_REUSEADDR socket option, which
> allows to bind to an existing port.
>
> This is needed for TCP sockets, because they typically "linger" for a
> while after you close them. If you close and immediately reopen a patch,
> [netreceive] would refuse to bind.
>
> However, we probably should *not* set SO_REUSEADDR for UDP sockets
> because it doesn't do anything useful. On the contrary, it just causes
> confusion because [netreceive -u] does not post an error if the port is
> already taken.
>
> Christof
>
> On 10.01.2024 23:08, João Pais wrote:
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> I'm trying to receive some UDP data from a mobile device into Pd. The data
> arrives in the computer (windows or ubuntu), here is a description from
> wireshark:
>
> Frame 173: 90 bytes on wire (720 bits), 90 bytes captured (720 bits) on
> interface \Device\NPF_{2ADD2685-ACB9-4C51-B708-F1F62FAE86C7}, id 0
> Ethernet II, Src: XiaomiCommun_1d:0e:fd (4c:e0:db:1d:0e:fd), Dst:
> IPv4mcast_01 (01:00:5e:00:00:01)
> Internet Protocol Version 4, Src: 192.168.178.34, Dst: 224.0.0.1
> User Datagram Protocol, Src Port: 43641, Dst Port: 57120
> Data (48 bytes)
>
>
> But with [netreceive -u -b 57120] (or any other options to netreceive) no
> data comes into Pd. Does anyone have any suggestion on how to receive the
> data?
>
> When is sent to 224.0.0.1, the data gets into the computer but not into
> Pd. But if other udp data is sent to the broadcast ip (192.168.178.255)
> from the same device, it does get also into Pd.
>
> Frame 31: 66 bytes on wire (528 bits), 66 bytes captured (528 bits) on
> interface \Device\NPF_{2ADD2685-ACB9-4C51-B708-F1F62FAE86C7}, id 0
> Ethernet II, Src: XiaomiCommun_1d:0e:fd (4c:e0:db:1d:0e:fd), Dst:
> Broadcast (ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff)
> Internet Protocol Version 4, Src: 192.168.178.34, Dst: 192.168.178.255
> User Datagram Protocol, Src Port: 42797, Dst Port: 57120
> Data (24 bytes)
>
> Best,
>
> Joao
>
>
>
>
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[PD] receive UDP message from 224.0.0.1

[João Pais]

Hi everyone,

I'm trying to receive some UDP data from a mobile device into Pd. The 
data arrives in the computer (windows or ubuntu), here is a description 
from wireshark:


Frame 173: 90 bytes on wire (720 bits), 90 bytes captured (720 bits) on 
interface \Device\NPF_{2ADD2685-ACB9-4C51-B708-F1F62FAE86C7}, id 0
Ethernet II, Src: XiaomiCommun_1d:0e:fd (4c:e0:db:1d:0e:fd), Dst: 
IPv4mcast_01 (01:00:5e:00:00:01)

Internet Protocol Version 4, Src: 192.168.178.34, Dst: 224.0.0.1
User Datagram Protocol, Src Port: 43641, Dst Port: 57120
Data (48 bytes)


But with [netreceive -u -b 57120] (or any other options to netreceive) 
no data comes into Pd. Does anyone have any suggestion on how to receive 
the data?


When is sent to 224.0.0.1, the data gets into the computer but not into 
Pd. But if other udp data is sent to the broadcast ip (192.168.178.255) 
from the same device, it does get also into Pd.


Frame 31: 66 bytes on wire (528 bits), 66 bytes captured (528 bits) on 
interface \Device\NPF_{2ADD2685-ACB9-4C51-B708-F1F62FAE86C7}, id 0
Ethernet II, Src: XiaomiCommun_1d:0e:fd (4c:e0:db:1d:0e:fd), Dst: 
Broadcast (ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff)

Internet Protocol Version 4, Src: 192.168.178.34, Dst: 192.168.178.255
User Datagram Protocol, Src Port: 42797, Dst Port: 57120
Data (24 bytes)

Best,

Joao




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[PD] [PD-announce] Click Tracker - Version 2.6 is out!

[João Pais CT]

Dear List,

Version 2.6 of the Click Tracker is out.

The main new features are in tempo changes: there is now a new parameter 
for tc curve control, which can be easily changed in the GUI in the 
score structure display. See information in 
http://jmmmp.github.io/clicktracker/#display



And also:
- cue files can be declared as normal filenames (not necessary to number 
them)

- tc and rep durations accept x:y expressions
- small improvements of score display and export
- open dialog shows text files by default (in Max-based versions)

As in the previous version, you can use in any of the following ways:
- as an android app (https://bit.ly/click-tracker-mob or 
https://bit.ly/clicktracker-playstore)
- as a closed desktop app in windows (http://bit.ly/ClickTracker2-5Win) 
or apple (http://bit.ly/ClickTracker2-5Apple)


Due to Apple's recent security settings, you'll need to allow the Pd and 
other externals to run on your system.

WARNING: M1 users will need to run the program with Rosetta.

- as the traditional Pure Data patch (https://bit.ly/ClickTracker2-5)
- as a Max/MSP patch in windows (http://bit.ly/ClickTracker2-5MaxWin) or 
apple (http://bit.ly/ClickTracker2-5MaxApple)


For more information, refer to the Click Tracker's website at 
http://j.mp/click-tracker.


You can also visit the Click Tracker on facebook - 
http://j.mp/clicktrackerfb, or check out the click track library in 
http://jmmmp.github.io/clicktracker/index-library.


With best regards,

João Pais

--
Click Tracker Mobile -https://bit.ly/click-tracker-mob
Click Tracker Website -http://j.mp/click-tracker
Click Tracker Library -https://bit.ly/ClickTrackerLibrary
Facebook -http://j.mp/clicktrackerfb
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[PD] [PD-announce] Click Tracker Library is 100

[João Pais CT]

Dear List,

Today the Click Tracker Library reached 100 works from 51 different 
composers. These resources can be turned into music by any interested 
musicians.


In the newest additions you can find works by Oscar Bianchi, Aaron 
Cassidy, Sara Glojnarić, Rama Gottfried, Bernhard Lang, Emmanuel Nunes, 
Gerard Pesson, Enno Poppe, Yann Robin, Mauricio Sotelo, Hans Thomalla 
and Ming Tsao.


If there are any works you might need or want to add to this collection, 
let me know.


All the details are in https://bit.ly/ClickTrackerLibrary

With best regards,

João Pais

--
Click Tracker Mobile -https://bit.ly/click-tracker-mob
Click Tracker -http://j.mp/click-tracker
Facebook -http://j.mp/clicktrackerfb
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[PD] [PD-announce] Click Tracker - Version 2.5 is out!

[João Pais CT]

Dear List,

Version 2.5 of the Click Tracker is out.

The main new features are the Click Tracker can now run in Apple ARM 
hardware under Rosetta, and SVG score output (Desktop version only).


And also:
- small improvements to usability
- score display scrolls with playback



As in the previous version, you can use in any of the following ways:
- as an android app (https://bit.ly/click-tracker-mob or 
https://bit.ly/clicktracker-playstore)
- as a closed desktop app in windows (http://bit.ly/ClickTracker2-5Win) 
or apple (http://bit.ly/ClickTracker2-5Apple)


Due to Apple's recent security settings, you'll need to allow the Pd and 
other externals to run on your system.

WARNING: M1 users will need to run the program with Rosetta.

- as the traditional Pure Data patch (https://bit.ly/ClickTracker2-5)
- as a Max/MSP patch in windows (http://bit.ly/ClickTracker2-5MaxWin) or 
apple (http://bit.ly/ClickTracker2-5MaxApple)


For more information, refer to the Click Tracker's website at 
http://j.mp/click-tracker.


You can also visit the Click Tracker on facebook - 
http://j.mp/clicktrackerfb, or check out the click track library in 
http://jmmmp.github.io/clicktracker/index-library.


With best regards,

João Pais

--
Click Tracker Mobile -https://bit.ly/click-tracker-mob
Click Tracker -http://j.mp/click-tracker
Facebook -http://j.mp/clicktrackerfb
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[PD] Number atom box limits overstepped

[João Pais]

Hello list,

after all this time, I just noticed something which I'm not sure if it 
was always like that or it changed without me noticing it: in atom boxes 
one can define the lower/upper limits, which work when dragging with the 
mouse, but don't work when inputting a number or sending a message - the 
numbers go further. Since usually these limits are there to make sure 
that unwanted information doesn't go further, wouldn't it make sense to 
make those limits work on all cases?


For what it's worth, I checked on Max and that's the behaviour there. It 
seems strange to say "here are the limits, but in this and that 
situation they're ignored".


Best,

Joao




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Re: [PD] pd for android and abl_link~

[João Pais]

I wanted to check out the github repository, but didn't see any new 
updates. Is it somewhere spefic to be found?


Best,

Joao


Regarding 'adapting for Google's updates' I've just pushed a new 
version of MobMuPlat (Android) to the play store; I'll push the 
changes to github momentarily.

(Google was no longer allowing apps with an older SDK)

On Thu, Apr 13, 2023 at 9:12 AM João Pais  wrote:

I can still use and compile the mobmuplat code, it's the base for my
click tracker App. It works fine, the only problem is adapting for
google's updates.

jmmmp


> Hi,
>
>   unfortunately it seems Mobmuplat can't be opened by Android Studio
> anymore as it complains about not being able to create the
> com.intellij.java plugin extension. I created an issue on github. I
> tried to open it on an old machine where it used to work but the
java
> runtime on that machine won't cooperate.
>
> Supersad, but it's beyond my skillset to resurrect the code. I guess
> we'll just have to hope the .apk of the current version keeps
working.
>
> ---
> Orm
>
> Am Donnerstag, den 16. Februar 2023 um 14:21:44 Uhr (-0800)
schrieb Daniel Iglesia:
>> Thanks Tal
>>
>> So building with that remote dependency should be swapping out the
>> destination in the gradle file. I will update that at some
point, or
>> someone feel free to send a pull request.
>>
>> However, building with a custom object to include means
building from a
>> local version of pd-for-android and libpd, as including that
object is part
>> of the libpd compilation, not the android app compilation. I
haven't tried
>> building Android on top of the local library in a long time, so
I don't
>> have help there. Tal may have more info on local build setup.
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 16, 2023 at 1:33 PM Tal Kirshboim

>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Daniel,
>>>
>>> pd-for-android is available on maven central.
>>>
>>> https://search.maven.org/artifact/io.github.libpd.android/pd-core
>>>
>>> On Thu, Feb 16, 2023, 22:10 Daniel Iglesia

>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Didn't know that jcenter is no longer active. Is
pd-for-android available
>>>> on maven? Or does it need to be a locally-available dependency?
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Feb 16, 2023 at 12:27 PM Orm Finnendahl <
>>>> orm.finnend...@selma.hfmdk-frankfurt.de> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>>   I'd like to build MobMuPlat with pdlib including the abl_link~
>>>>> external. As far as I've understood, the original MobMuPlat
code uses
>>>>> jcenter which is not active anymore and has been replaced by
maven. It
>>>>> seems I need to add the maven repository to MobMuPlat's
build scripts
>>>>> and somehow add the dependencies of abl_link~. Can anybody give
>>>>> information or point me to references how to accomplish this?
>>>>>
>>>>> Any help is appreciated!
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Orm
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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Tel +49 30 74921288 | Mob +49 176 98476769
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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Max pd~ object test compiled for M1 processors

[João Pais]

According to reports from users, the external is also working on my 
Click Tracker patch (both as max patch and standalone).



This is great, thank you! Just tested on my M1 machine using Rosetta 
and then not and all seems to work fine in the help patches at first 
glance. I did get a macOS quarantine popup the first time, but 
approving that worked and it didn't re-appear.


On Sat, Jan 14, 2023 at 11:44 AM Miller Puckette via Pd-announce 
 wrote:


To Pd announce -

The pd~ Max object (which allows you to embed Pd patches in
Max/MSP) is now
available for the M1 architecture in a test version (0.55test1). 
You can
get it at the usual spot: http://msp.ucsd.edu/software.html

It _should_ be possible to run it in Max version 8 for either
intel or "M1"
(apple) architecture, using Pd compiled for either architecture -
but I haven't
tried out all the permutations yet.

Bug reports are most welcome, either to Pd list or to me personally.

cheers
Miller
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Re: [PD] pd for android and abl_link~

[João Pais]

I can still use and compile the mobmuplat code, it's the base for my 
click tracker App. It works fine, the only problem is adapting for 
google's updates.


jmmmp



Hi,

  unfortunately it seems Mobmuplat can't be opened by Android Studio
anymore as it complains about not being able to create the
com.intellij.java plugin extension. I created an issue on github. I
tried to open it on an old machine where it used to work but the java
runtime on that machine won't cooperate.

Supersad, but it's beyond my skillset to resurrect the code. I guess
we'll just have to hope the .apk of the current version keeps working.

---
Orm

Am Donnerstag, den 16. Februar 2023 um 14:21:44 Uhr (-0800) schrieb Daniel 
Iglesia:

Thanks Tal

So building with that remote dependency should be swapping out the
destination in the gradle file. I will update that at some point, or
someone feel free to send a pull request.

However, building with a custom object to include means building from a
local version of pd-for-android and libpd, as including that object is part
of the libpd compilation, not the android app compilation. I haven't tried
building Android on top of the local library in a long time, so I don't
have help there. Tal may have more info on local build setup.

On Thu, Feb 16, 2023 at 1:33 PM Tal Kirshboim 
wrote:


Hi Daniel,

pd-for-android is available on maven central.

https://search.maven.org/artifact/io.github.libpd.android/pd-core

On Thu, Feb 16, 2023, 22:10 Daniel Iglesia 
wrote:


Didn't know that jcenter is no longer active. Is pd-for-android available
on maven? Or does it need to be a locally-available dependency?

On Thu, Feb 16, 2023 at 12:27 PM Orm Finnendahl <
orm.finnend...@selma.hfmdk-frankfurt.de> wrote:


Hi,

  I'd like to build MobMuPlat with pdlib including the abl_link~
external. As far as I've understood, the original MobMuPlat code uses
jcenter which is not active anymore and has been replaced by maven. It
seems I need to add the maven repository to MobMuPlat's build scripts
and somehow add the dependencies of abl_link~. Can anybody give
information or point me to references how to accomplish this?

Any help is appreciated!

--
Orm



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Re: [PD] Sometimes all data-structures are redrawn

[João Pais]

I'm not using Pd much, so I could only mention my 
http://jmmmp.github.io/clicktracker/ From what I "feel", it takes longer 
now to draw when loaded (it's just a GOP patch), and also a bit more to 
open the GOP to see its contents. And the same again when closing the 
canvas+patch.


I just clicked around in my jmmmp help folder, and here are some help 
files that seem to take longer to load than others. I'm not sure if this 
is good enough to report something interesting: multiarray, matrixctrl, 
jp.coll, gui-edit,


E.g. the most complex patch, Granulator, opens as quick as one of the 
simplest ones. So I guess the delay isn't connected with the size of the 
patch itself.


System: W10, Pd 0.53.1



On 3/8/23 14:13, João Pais wrote:
It seems to me that gui peformance has gotten worse in 0.53.1, but I 
haven't been using Pd enough to pinpoint it. If affects mostly GOP 
and loading/closing speeds, maybe not related with this.


i would be *highly* interested in any patches demonstrating such a 
performance loss.


mgdsar
IOhannes

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Re: [PD] Sometimes all data-structures are redrawn

[João Pais]

Not much of a help, just a couple of pointers:

I just opened a patch with several jmmmp/multiarray and help patches of 
several of my jmmmp objects using data structures, and didn't notice 
something like that.
But, I always use $0-names for templates. I would think having less 
scalars for the same template would not affect existing scalars of a 
given template.


Is your test patch anywhere ready to test? (preferably not "go here to 
download the whole library, then go there and do this, ect.")


The delay on other gui objects is normal, is just pd overloading the 
system with anything gui-related.


It seems to me that gui peformance has gotten worse in 0.53.1, but I 
haven't been using Pd enough to pinpoint it. If affects mostly GOP and 
loading/closing speeds, maybe not related with this.



On Sat, 2023-03-04 at 23:17 +0100, Roman Haefeli wrote:

Sometimes when I load certain patches containing data structures, all
data structures in all patches of an instance of Pd are redrawn.

As a follow-up on the matter, I identified to conditions that trigger a
redraw:

   * Loading a patch where some scalar objects like [draw{symbol,number,text}]
 or [{draw,filled}{curve,polygon}] are created before the [struct] oject
 of the template

   * Loading a patch where the [struct] uses a template name containing $0
 like $0.fruit (!).

$0 seems to be treated specially, since using $1, $2, etc. is not
affected. Also, it doesn't help to put [struct $1 float x] into an
abstraction [mystruct $0.fruit].

Interestingly, if I load the patch without the [struct] object first,
and then create [sruct $0.fruit float x] manually, it doesn't trigger
the redraw. I'll try if I can work-around unwanted (and probably
unnecessary) redraws by dynamically creating [struct] objects instead
of loading them with the patch (as I cannot abstain from using $0).

Anyway, I hoped I could to get some insight in the matter first, but I
am more and more getting a sense that this deserves to be reported as
an issue.

Roman

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Re: [PD] [SOLVED!] GOP auto-moving issue with Pd Vanilla 0.53.1 under GNU/Linux and Windows

[João Pais]

without going to see the meaning of all coords parameters or how it's 
applied in the file: if both coords statements refer to the same canvas, 
wouldn't it be better to delete the first one?




Hello João,

Thanks for your suggestions.
The first ones were not working, always the same jumping GOP issue.

So I spent some more time on analyzing the 1845 lines of my patch.pd 
file helped by this unofficial PdFileFormat article 
<https://puredata.info/docs/developer/PdFileFormat>.
After a lot of testing I found the culprit, it is #X restore... and 
any associated #X coords... lines.


In my case I was able to fix my issue by modifying the order of 3 lines.

* Original Pd patch file for Restore & Coords: BAD behavior
/#X coords 0 -1 1 1 853 280 1 995 265;//
//#X restore 10 7 pd smpsk;//
//#X coords 0 293.5 1 292.5 850 280 0;//

/ * Modified Pd patch file for RESTORE & COORDS: Now GOOD behavior
/#X coords 0 293.5 1 292.5 850 280 0;//
//#X coords 0 -1 1 1 853 280 1 995 265;//
//#X restore 10 7 pd smpsk;/

It seems to be a question of properly sorting this 3 lines, here manually.
But it should be the automatic task of the Pd engine to do it, isn't it!

I will open an Issue on Miller Puckette Git site.

Best, Joe
= = = = = = = = = =

Le 25/02/2023 à 18:41, João Pais a écrit :
it could be that your object isn't in the position it looks like, but 
it's outside (above or below) the canvas, and it's only noticed when 
you click in it - although it should show slider panes in the window. 
You can try to move it downwards or upwards or check the patche's 
text file to see where exactly in the canvas it is.


or maybe not.

= = = = = = = = = =

Hello List,

In one of my project I have the same weird issue under both 
GNU/Linux (Linux Mint, Ubuntu Studio, Manjaro Linux, Raspberry Pi 
OS) and Windows with the use of Pd Vanilla GOP.
It's moving/jumping down/up (y axis only) when maximizing/minimizing 
its windows or changing its y size with the mouse.

See here attached animated GIF file (zoom-out) realized with a RPi 400.

This is true for both zoom-out / zoom-in level.
But its parent patch doesn't have this weird behavior. The x,y 
position of the GOP is not impacted at all.


Removing from its parent patch all the objects, inside + outside the 
GOP, doesn't change this weird behavior.
Note that trying to reproduce this problem from scratch with very 
simple patches+GOP is not always giving the same result. Sometimes 
it's okay but sometimes not. Random behavior seems to be around.


Is there a known bug in Pd Vanilla or something wrong in the design 
of my patch regarding GOP?


Thank you. Best,
Joe-Rouen

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Re: [PD] GOP auto-moving issue with Pd Vanilla 0.53.1 under GNU/Linux and Windows

[João Pais]

it could be that your object isn't in the position it looks like, but 
it's outside (above or below) the canvas, and it's only noticed when you 
click in it - although it should show slider panes in the window. You 
can try to move it downwards or upwards or check the patche's text file 
to see where exactly in the canvas it is.


or maybe not.



Hello List,

In one of my project I have the same weird issue under both GNU/Linux 
(Linux Mint, Ubuntu Studio, Manjaro Linux, Raspberry Pi OS) and 
Windows with the use of Pd Vanilla GOP.
It's moving/jumping down/up (y axis only) when maximizing/minimizing 
its windows or changing its y size with the mouse.

See here attached animated GIF file (zoom-out) realized with a RPi 400.

This is true for both zoom-out / zoom-in level.
But its parent patch doesn't have this weird behavior. The x,y 
position of the GOP is not impacted at all.


Removing from its parent patch all the objects, inside + outside the 
GOP, doesn't change this weird behavior.
Note that trying to reproduce this problem from scratch with very 
simple patches+GOP is not always giving the same result. Sometimes 
it's okay but sometimes not. Random behavior seems to be around.


Is there a known bug in Pd Vanilla or something wrong in the design of 
my patch regarding GOP?


Thank you. Best,
Joe-Rouen

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[PD] [PD-announce] Click Tracker - Version 2.4 is out!

[João Pais]

Dear All,

Version 2.4 of the Click Tracker is out.

The main new features are the score display and interaction (not be 
available on mobile plattforms, for more details see the webpage) ...



... and also the external controller setup, with which you can use e.g. 
a pedal controller.


And also:
- added "voice" score command to mute the spoken bar number in specific bars
- fixed bug with audio export of subdivisions
- fixed bug with comments on same line as score commands
- fixed Max GUI zoom bug
- fixed GUI bug with buttons on linux
- updated example files to newest syntax


As in the previous version, you can use in any of the following ways:
- as an android app (https://bit.ly/click-tracker-mob or 
https://bit.ly/clicktracker-playstore)
- as a closed desktop app in windows (http://bit.ly/ClickTracker2-4Win) 
or apple (http://bit.ly/ClickTracker2-4Apple)


Due to Apple's recent security settings, you'll need to allow the Pd and 
other externals to run on your system.

WARNING: M1 users will need to run the program with Rosetta.

- as the traditional Pure Data patch (https://bit.ly/ClickTracker2-4)
- as a Max/MSP patch in windows (http://bit.ly/ClickTracker2-4MaxWin) or 
apple (http://bit.ly/ClickTracker2-4MaxApple)


For more information, refer to the Click Tracker's website at 
http://j.mp/click-tracker.


You can also visit the Click Tracker on facebook - 
http://j.mp/clicktrackerfb, or check out the click track library in 
http://jmmmp.github.io/clicktracker/index-library.


With best regards,

João Pais

--
Click Tracker Mobile -https://bit.ly/click-tracker-mob
Click Tracker Website -http://j.mp/click-tracker
Click Tracker Library -https://bit.ly/ClickTrackerLibrary
Facebook -http://j.mp/clicktrackerfb
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[PD] [PD-announce] Click Tracker - Version 2.4 is out!

[João Pais CT]

Dear List,

Version 2.4 of the Click Tracker is out.

The main new features are the score display and interaction (not be 
available on mobile plattforms, for more details see the webpage) ...



... and also the external controller setup, with which you can use e.g. 
a pedal controller.


And also:
- added "voice" score command to mute the spoken bar number in specific bars
- fixed bug with audio export of subdivisions
- fixed bug with comments on same line as score commands
- fixed Max GUI zoom bug
- fixed GUI bug with buttons on linux
- updated example files to newest syntax


As in the previous version, you can use in any of the following ways:
- as an android app (https://bit.ly/click-tracker-mob or 
https://bit.ly/clicktracker-playstore)
- as a closed desktop app in windows (http://bit.ly/ClickTracker2-4Win) 
or apple (http://bit.ly/ClickTracker2-4Apple)


Due to Apple's recent security settings, you'll need to allow the Pd and 
other externals to run on your system.

WARNING: M1 users will need to run the program with Rosetta.

- as the traditional Pure Data patch (https://bit.ly/ClickTracker2-4)
- as a Max/MSP patch in windows (http://bit.ly/ClickTracker2-4MaxWin) or 
apple (http://bit.ly/ClickTracker2-4MaxApple)


For more information, refer to the Click Tracker's website at 
http://j.mp/click-tracker.


You can also visit the Click Tracker on facebook - 
http://j.mp/clicktrackerfb, or check out the click track library in 
http://jmmmp.github.io/clicktracker/index-library.


With best regards,

João Pais

--
Click Tracker Mobile -https://bit.ly/click-tracker-mob
Click Tracker Website -http://j.mp/click-tracker
Click Tracker Library -https://bit.ly/ClickTrackerLibrary
Facebook -http://j.mp/clicktrackerfb
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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] [leapmotion] version 0.2.0 on deken

[João Pais]

ah ah actually the wink was for Miller - pd~ doesn't work on M1 yet.


True, the abandoned 2.3.1 libLeap.dylib isn't built for arm64. But 
there's always Rosetta... In a funny cluster of circumstances, under 
macOS 12.6 it's actually /only/ M1 machines that can connect with the 
Leap controller. The OS doesn't recognize it, but M1 users have a 
hacky option: go to "Recalibrate Device" in Leap settings then restart 
the machine. Upon restart, the device is recognized. This doesn't work 
for Intel macs, so we've got a situation where the only Leap library 
build option is for the architecture that can't recognize the device: 
great. I have no idea of the behavior under macOS 13. It may be that 
Leap hardware is a complete no-go there.
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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] [leapmotion] version 0.2.0 on deken

[João Pais]

... but not yet with the M1 processors (wink wink)



I think Max users can use pd~ to run this.

cheers
Miller

On Sun, Dec 25, 2022 at 06:08:44PM -0500, William Brent wrote:






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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] [leapmotion] version 0.2.0 on deken

[João Pais]

Hi William,

nice that you made this also for mac. I'm thinking that since each 
version of the object is in a different repository (I have the windows 
version, you have mac, and Chikashi has linux), would it make sense to 
cross-reference them? I guess putting them all together might be too much.


I haven't used my leap too much, mostly because after some performances 
I wanted to use more complex control such as gestures. But I couldn't 
program anything myself, and didn't find any way of using e.g. machine 
learning or similar for that. Is this some kind of work you also do? 
Could you recommend any such libraries, even if not for Pd?


Best,
Joao


Hi all,

After years of using Chikashi Miyama's [leapmotion] object, I decided 
to fork his repo in order to make some changes and build against the 
most recently available Leap SDK for macOS (2.3.1). Information about 
specific changes can be found by visiting the repo: 
https://github.com/wbrent/leapmotion. I've also uploaded deken 
packages for macOS/Intel and Linux.


Note that this external is for the original Leap Motion Controller, 
and not the current Ultraleap Controller. I may keep working on this 
in order to use the latest Leap SDK (5.7.2) for Ultraleap 
compatibility under Linux and Windows, but there seems to be no plan 
for supporting that device under macOS, hence the freeze at SDK 2.3.1 
for now...


I hope it's helpful to someone out there!
William


--
William Brent

“Great minds flock together”
Conflations: conversational idiom for the 21st century

www.conflations.com 

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[PD] sonogram abstraction idea with data structures.

[João Pais]

Generating and displaying many structs can be very slow, it might not be 
the most efficient way. Not sure internally if it's better to bang~ a 
whole table, or find a method to go not so fast. Anyway, when generating 
structs, it will help if the window where they will be drawn is closed.


I think the eargram library had already a sonogram also based on data 
structures, probably using timbreId.


I also did some own improvements to the partial tracer file (for both 
analysis and synthesis), there were some small bugs/incoherences there: 
(not sure if this picture will show in the list)


I wanted to implement a sonogram analysis like max's spectroscope~ 
does (see picture) with FFT analysis and data structures. Any ideas? I 
guess I can [fft~] connected to a [tabsend~] and then have a [bang~] 
reading the table values for generating the graph, that's my first guess.


 But I am also now inspired by partialtracer.pd from the data 
structures tutorial, which uses [sigmund~] and it'd be great if it had 
a new output mode for raw FFT amplitudes, I am assuming that the 
'peaks' output doesn't really work for this, or would it?
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Re: [PD] Alternative for array to show curves?

[João Pais]

I have no experience with Pi - is running them on GEM an option?

Or a downsampled array display, depending on how much detail you need.

Am So., 9. Okt. 2022 um 18:19 Uhr schrieb Dan Wilcox :

> Before you rewrite the whole thing, maybe it's a bug on the platform...?
>
> Another option is not to use the Pd GUI at all and make a custom GUI using
> OpenGL via something like SDL or OpenFrameworks, then communicate with Pd
> via networking / OSC. IN fact, you could avoid the desktop GUI altogether
> and get some graphics mem, CPU, and RAM back. That is my preferred approach
> for embedded where I'm using Pd for audio and mappings but do not need to
> patch once things are prepared.
>
> On Oct 9, 2022, at 12:00 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
>
>
> Let me add that I had never any issues like that on Intel or AMD processors
> over the last 10 years.
>
> It only happens on the Paspberry Pi.
>
> The same software always runs flawlessly on these other systems updating
> all
> graphics normally as they should.
>
>
> 
> Dan Wilcox
> @danomatika 
> danomatika.com
> robotcowboy.com
>
>
>
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Re: [PD] why units per pixel: -1 by default on subpatches?

[João Pais]

Em sex., 1 de abr. de 2022 às 13:46, Miller Puckette  
escreveu:


Because when just making a patch the origin is conventionally top
left,
not bottom left.  So pixels count downward, and if you want "y" to
increase
as you go up, that's the opposite dorection.


Sure, but let me see if I get things straight. This is just meaningful 
for Data Structures, right? Cause if I change this in a "regular" 
canvas, I don't see any difference. But maybe I'm missing something.


all the "units per pixel" values only affect data structure scalars.


Now, I can see the difference is where to consider the origin (0/0 
coordinate), but I don't know what's the benefit besides maybe having 
a more intuitive expectation when resizing the window, right? Perhaps 
one could argue it also makes easier to know where to append objects 
on the canvas, but I'm not sure about that.


Anyway, I really think it makes it very confusing for setting and 
retrieving field values that represent the horizontal axis. In the 
Data Structures tutorial examples, like 02.getting.data, the height of 
the triangle is a negative number. This is particularly troublesome 
for arrays, cause we really expect that the higher the element is, the 
higher its value should be.


Just install a mirror on your desktop and look at your screen downward
through it, and you'll see 'y' increase upward when 'scale' is set
to 1 :)


Not sure if that fixes everything and this can be easily fixed by 
setting the "Y units per pixel" value to a positive number, like in 
the 07.sequencer examples, which, by the way, makes much more sense to 
follow the score.


I'm now revising the Data Structures tutorial in my documentation 
updates and would like to bring this discussion into attention. I have 
changed all the patches so the "Y" unit is set to positive values and 
have better documented how this works. But anyway, I really think it 
makes more sense for a default value that we have Y units set to "1".


the problem is that when making new patches where height plays a role, 
unless you know the limits for your height and set your window 
accordingly, you'll always have to play around with the vertical slider 
for it to display correctly. Also, I think I remember display errors in 
the windows when opening them, even if the canvas was saved with enough 
height; readjusting minimally the canvas height fixes it.


Unless that a window slider control method would be added to pdcontrol 
to complement such issues, which would anyway be a good idea - it would 
allow for lots of new GUI possibilities.


Joao
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Re: [PD] Click Tracker - Version 2.3 is out!

[João Pais]

Hi Dudley.


I spent more than 10 years working on this, basically giving it away for 
musicians who want to use it, and at no profit for me. I would like at 
some point to be able to get some return on the time, and it seems to me 
that the only option is to try to protect the source code.


Regarding your comments:

- the objects were "entagled" with jmmmp/jp.garble

- I "might" have added some hundreds of non-useful objects to some 
subpatches just to annoy anyone who tries to clean it up


- none of these are failsafe, but I only know how to program in Pd, so 
it's the only protection I could think of.



If you're interested in how the Click Tracker works etc., I would 
suggest to have a look at the paper I presented some years ago 
https://www.uni-weimar.de/kunst-und-gestaltung/wiki/PDCON:Conference/Click_Tracker:_Performance/composition_tool_for_metrically_complex_scores 
- most of it is still current.


Or to ask me directly. I doubt I will send you the original patch, but I 
can answer questions in text.


Best,

Joao


May I ask please: If you look at the various pd objects in 
ClickTracker using CTL-E, why are most of the objects all slammed 
together in one corner (and consequently all the wires "tangled")?


I like to examine other people's Pd programs to learn more about 
programming in Pd ... so I once spent two full days completely 
untangling ClickTracker.


And I discovered this in the main part of the program:

[+ 1]
  |
[+ 3]
  |
[+ 5]
  |
[+ 1]
  |
[+ 3]
  |
[+ 5]
   .
   .
   .
[+  1]
  |
[+ 3]
  |
[+ 5]

Or something lack that, with something like 195 objects (I forget how 
many) ... and with nothing connected to the first input, and the last 
output not connecting to anything.


What is that about?

Thanks.

I apologize.  I'm not at all complaining -- it's a great program!

But I'm just totally mystified about why the insides of the program 
look like this.



On 3/11/22 3:17 AM, João Pais wrote:


Dear list,

Version 2.3 of the Click Tracker is out.

This version was generously supported by the Quatuor Bozzini 
(https://www.quatuorbozzini.ca/), and reflects mainly improvements 
gained from the perspective of the users.



The new features are divided into 3 categories:
Syntax features:
- added meters with mixed denominators
- added "x Y" command to repeat inputed events
- added fermatas
GUI features:
- new GUI layout
- removed "record" button
- added reset button for pickup bar
GUI features for the application and Max patch:
- added file drop to open a score
- change the window size to scale the contents
- added new control keys g l t u, also combined with shift for reset


As in the previous version, you can use in any of the following ways:
- as an android app (https://bit.ly/click-tracker-mob or 
https://bit.ly/clicktracker-playstore)
- as a closed desktop app in windows 
(http://bit.ly/ClickTracker2-3Win) or apple 
(http://bit.ly/ClickTracker2-3Apple)


Due to Apple's recent security settings, you'll need to allow the Pd 
and other externals to run on your system.

WARNING: M1 users will need to run the program with Rosetta.

- as the traditional Pure Data patch (https://bit.ly/ClickTracker2-3)
- as a Max/MSP patch in windows (http://bit.ly/ClickTracker2-3MaxWin) 
or apple (http://bit.ly/ClickTracker2-3MaxApple)


For more information, refer to the Click Tracker's website at 
http://j.mp/click-tracker.


You can also visit the Click Tracker on facebook - 
http://j.mp/clicktrackerfb, or check out the click track library in 
http://jmmmp.github.io/clicktracker/index-library.


With best regards,

João Pais
--
Click Tracker Mobile -https://bit.ly/click-tracker-mob
Click Tracker Website -http://j.mp/click-tracker
Click Tracker Library -https://bit.ly/ClickTrackerLibrary
Facebook -http://j.mp/clicktrackerfb

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[PD] [PD-announce] Click Tracker - Version 2.3 is out!

[João Pais CT]

Dear List,

Version 2.3 of the Click Tracker is out.

This version was generously supported by the Quatuor Bozzini 
(https://www.quatuorbozzini.ca/), and reflects mainly improvements 
gained from the perspective of the users.



The new features are divided into 3 categories:
Syntax features:
- added meters with mixed denominators
- added "x Y" command to repeat inputed events
- added fermatas
GUI features:
- new GUI layout
- removed "record" button
- added reset button for pickup bar
GUI features for the application and Max patch:
- added file drop to open a score
- change the window size to scale the contents
- added new control keys g l t u, also combined with shift for reset


As in the previous version, you can use in any of the following ways:
- as an android app (https://bit.ly/click-tracker-mob or 
https://bit.ly/clicktracker-playstore)
- as a closed desktop app in windows (http://bit.ly/ClickTracker2-3Win) 
or apple (http://bit.ly/ClickTracker2-3Apple)


Due to Apple's recent security settings, you'll need to allow the Pd and 
other externals to run on your system.

WARNING: M1 users will need to run the program with Rosetta.

- as the traditional Pure Data patch (https://bit.ly/ClickTracker2-3)
- as a Max/MSP patch in windows (http://bit.ly/ClickTracker2-3MaxWin) or 
apple (http://bit.ly/ClickTracker2-3MaxApple)


For more information, refer to the Click Tracker's website at 
http://j.mp/click-tracker.


You can also visit the Click Tracker on facebook - 
http://j.mp/clicktrackerfb, or check out the click track library in 
http://jmmmp.github.io/clicktracker/index-library.


With best regards,

João Pais

--
Click Tracker Mobile -https://bit.ly/click-tracker-mob
Click Tracker Website -http://j.mp/click-tracker
Click Tracker Library -https://bit.ly/ClickTrackerLibrary
Facebook -http://j.mp/clicktrackerfb
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[PD] Click Tracker - Version 2.3 is out!

[João Pais]

Dear list,

Version 2.3 of the Click Tracker is out.

This version was generously supported by the Quatuor Bozzini 
(https://www.quatuorbozzini.ca/), and reflects mainly improvements 
gained from the perspective of the users.



The new features are divided into 3 categories:
Syntax features:
- added meters with mixed denominators
- added "x Y" command to repeat inputed events
- added fermatas
GUI features:
- new GUI layout
- removed "record" button
- added reset button for pickup bar
GUI features for the application and Max patch:
- added file drop to open a score
- change the window size to scale the contents
- added new control keys g l t u, also combined with shift for reset


As in the previous version, you can use in any of the following ways:
- as an android app (https://bit.ly/click-tracker-mob or 
https://bit.ly/clicktracker-playstore)
- as a closed desktop app in windows (http://bit.ly/ClickTracker2-3Win) 
or apple (http://bit.ly/ClickTracker2-3Apple)


Due to Apple's recent security settings, you'll need to allow the Pd and 
other externals to run on your system.

WARNING: M1 users will need to run the program with Rosetta.

- as the traditional Pure Data patch (https://bit.ly/ClickTracker2-3)
- as a Max/MSP patch in windows (http://bit.ly/ClickTracker2-3MaxWin) or 
apple (http://bit.ly/ClickTracker2-3MaxApple)


For more information, refer to the Click Tracker's website at 
http://j.mp/click-tracker.


You can also visit the Click Tracker on facebook - 
http://j.mp/clicktrackerfb, or check out the click track library in 
http://jmmmp.github.io/clicktracker/index-library.


With best regards,

João Pais

--
Click Tracker Mobile -https://bit.ly/click-tracker-mob
Click Tracker Website -http://j.mp/click-tracker
Click Tracker Library -https://bit.ly/ClickTrackerLibrary
Facebook -http://j.mp/clicktrackerfb
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Re: [PD] finding differences between almost identical patches

[João Pais]

from my work as a music engraver I can suggest another idea, but which 
only works on limited contexts: export each canvas as a graphic file, 
and overlay the different versions convert (pdfstudio does this). But as 
anyone can notice, there are too many conditions necessary for this to 
work (find and export all canvases, patches can't be moved, ...).


Or: comment your patches.



On Sun, 2022-02-20 at 13:03 +0100, ro...@dds.nl wrote:

hi list,

is there a smart way to find the difference between 2 versions of a
patch?


Actually, the Pd file format is not really well "diff"able.  Even if
you edit only one object within canvas with many objects, the implicit
order of the objects changes, which leads to all subsequent 'connect'
statements to change. A really tiny edit can (and most often does) lead
to a quite large diff. Also, this makes it hard to concurrently work on
patches and merge changes. It will almost inevitably lead to merge
conflicts.

Still, I think a tool for tracking differences in text files like 'git
diff' or Kdiff3 is your best bet. If I am looking at a diff for the
purpose of figuring what has changed, I consider mainly the 'obj'
statements and try to identify new or deleted objects while ignoring
the 'connect' statements. Also, the 'canvas' statements seem to create
a lot of noise when stuff has been moved around.  Often, a change
happened within a certain subpatch and looking at the diff gives you a
clue about which subpatch is affected. To see and experience the actual
difference, I open both version with Pd and compare visually and
experimentally.

Roman

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Re: [PD] A strange question (yet again)

[João Pais]

some ideas:

- try to reduce the quantity of elements so that it's manageable, but 
this isn't that well as it reduces the quality as well
- a extra problem with this is that if you want to add arrays such as 
with multiarray, you'll need to do all that in a gop - and that adds 
processing weight, making everything even heavier


- you could use GEM to display all these elements and keep the quality. 
I didn't understood if the red lines have user interaction; if yes, I'm 
not sure if one can grab "objects" in gem, probably not. but by seeing 
the mouse values it would be easy to connect the interaction with a 
definite array. Disadvantage is that gem has to be downloaded and 
installed (or you pack it with your externals)



Indeed I think that I will have to do an external… I wonder if there is a good 
(simple) how-to on GUI external for Pd that are cross platform and canvas 
compatible… the IEM link is dead and the example code you propose is long (i.e. 
1k lines long :) - I only need to take in lists and draw a coloured point in a 
given coordinate after all :)

Then I can relearn TCLTK which I had to learn 25 years ago when working on v1 
of Cecilia :)




On 21 Jan 2022, at 14:33, Christof Ressi  wrote:

Unfortunately, Pd's GUI capabilities are rather limited. There's probably no 
way around writing your own Tcl/Tk code.

Here's an advanced example from the "else" library: 
https://github.com/porres/pd-else/blob/master/Classes/Source/keyboard.c.

Generally, it would be better to add a GUI plugin, but there are some obstacles 
(see https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/issues/1555)

Christof

On 21.01.2022 10:59, Pierre Alexandre Tremblay wrote:

Ok lovely people. I cleaned it, and I even did a similar thing to João’s 
'dynamic patching' to see if it would be faster. In my case, it is unusably 
slow for 300x400 for the struct version, and it beachballs completely with the 
‘dynamic patching’ approach.

Even more funny is, if you save the patch once it is drawn, the file is now 
huge and cannot load ;)

I’ve included both patches for 30x40 for fun. At that size they both work 
relatively well. Now, change the numbers to 300 and 400 for less fun :) Any 
pointers to optimisation and/or other ideas welcome

p





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[PD] Click Tracker - Version 2.2 is out!

[João Pais]

Dear List,


Version 2.2 of the Click Tracker is out.
The new features are tempi with different base units, Audio Status 
window with output control in standalone version, and improvements in 
Max GUI feedback.
This version was generously supported by Stefan Prins 
(http://www.stefanprins.be/)



As in the previous version, you can use in any of the following ways:
- as an android app (https://bit.ly/click-tracker-mob or 
https://bit.ly/clicktracker-playstore)
- as a closed desktop app in windows (http://bit.ly/ClickTracker2-2win) 
or apple (http://bit.ly/ClickTracker2-2Apple)


Due to Apple's recent security settings, you'll need to allow the Pd and 
other externals to run on your system.

WARNING: M1 users will need to run the program with Rosetta.

- as the traditional Pure Data patch (http://bit.ly/clicktrackerv2-2)
- as a Max/MSP patch in windows (http://bit.ly/ClickTracker2-2MaxWin) or 
apple (http://bit.ly/ClickTracker2-2MaxApple)


For more information, refer to the Click Tracker's website at 
http://j.mp/click-tracker.


You can also visit the Click Tracker on facebook - 
http://j.mp/clicktrackerfb, or check out the click track library in 
http://jmmmp.github.io/clicktracker/index-library.


With best regards,

João Pais

--
Click Tracker Mobile -https://bit.ly/click-tracker-mob
Click Tracker Website -http://j.mp/click-tracker
Click Tracker Library -https://bit.ly/ClickTrackerLibrary
Facebook -http://j.mp/clicktrackerfb
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[PD] [PD-announce] Click Tracker - Version 2.2 is out!

[João Pais CT]

Dear List,

Version 2.2 of the Click Tracker is out.
The new features are tempi with different base units, Audio Status 
window with output control in standalone version, and improvements in 
Max GUI feedback.
This version was generously supported by Stefan Prins 
(http://www.stefanprins.be/)



As in the previous version, you can use in any of the following ways:
- as an android app (https://bit.ly/click-tracker-mob or 
https://bit.ly/clicktracker-playstore)
- as a closed desktop app in windows (http://bit.ly/ClickTracker2-2win) 
or apple (http://bit.ly/ClickTracker2-2Apple)


Due to Apple's recent security settings, you'll need to allow the Pd and 
other externals to run on your system.

WARNING: M1 users will need to run the program with Rosetta.

- as the traditional Pure Data patch (http://bit.ly/clicktrackerv2-2)
- as a Max/MSP patch in windows (http://bit.ly/ClickTracker2-2MaxWin) or 
apple (http://bit.ly/ClickTracker2-2MaxApple)


For more information, refer to the Click Tracker's website at 
http://j.mp/click-tracker.


You can also visit the Click Tracker on facebook - 
http://j.mp/clicktrackerfb, or check out the click track library in 
http://jmmmp.github.io/clicktracker/index-library.


With best regards,

João Pais

--
Click Tracker Mobile -https://bit.ly/click-tracker-mob
Click Tracker Website -http://j.mp/click-tracker
Click Tracker Library -https://bit.ly/ClickTrackerLibrary
Facebook -http://j.mp/clicktrackerfb
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Re: [PD] A strange question (yet again)

[João Pais]

- if the spectrogram + audio aren't triggered that often, one way would be to use a 
background of canvas objects, each with 1x1 pixels. This sounds very exotic, I did it in 
jmmmp/pix2canvas to "copy-paste" pictures into a Pd patch.

I was trying to do a x-y joystick that way when I did it, so I’ll revisit.


Not sure how practicable it is in your dimensions.

I’m thinking in the ballpark of 200 x 400. Redrawing is on cue, rarely.


if you want a quick prototype, try converting a png with 200x400 with 
jmmmp/pix2canvas. You can then copy-paste those canvases (takes a while 
to paste, and will be quite hard to move around), and then you can do 
random sends just to see how fast the colors can change (you'll notice 
how I structured the send/receive variables). Actually it might be quick 
to send colors, but I'm not sure at all. Anyway it will be much quicker 
than dinamically delete and create them.




- for the pitch+confidence lines, jmmmp/multiarray already allows for several 
arrays with different colors, thickness, etc. Pd's latest version also added 
features similar to that - but I'm not sure you can combine a new array with 
the background mentioned above in a canvas of your choice.

Oh this is new, I’ll go spy on.


I think I had mentioned it already a while ago in a mail.


Thanks again João for your help. Wait to see the new look of the helpfile, much 
improved thanks to your suggestions!


That would be nice to see, yes. Surely soon.

Best,

Joao




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Re: [PD] A strange question (yet again)

[João Pais]

An array of data structure rectangles doesn't sound that bad. Why are
you looking for another way?


Because if I have a spectrogram of 400 pixels by 200 pixels, the 
struct drawing was taxing the machine quite a lot. Actually 100 
smaller than that it was taxing the machine…


But maybe I got it wrong. Obviously I’m not aiming at parity of 
features, but just having a spectrogram layer I could tap would be ace.


Do you have a Pd patch somewhere to have a look at?

Just to throw some ideas:

- if the spectrogram + audio aren't triggered that often, one way would 
be to use a background of canvas objects, each with 1x1 pixels. This 
sounds very exotic, I did it in jmmmp/pix2canvas to "copy-paste" 
pictures into a Pd patch. Not sure how practicable it is in your dimensions.


  - since the problem with structuts is only in the drawing, you can 
use your current patch to calculate the values


  - If you want mouse interaction with the background it might work 
only with externals.


- for the pitch+confidence lines, jmmmp/multiarray already allows for 
several arrays with different colors, thickness, etc. Pd's latest 
version also added features similar to that - but I'm not sure you can 
combine a new array with the background mentioned above in a canvas of 
your choice.


jmmmp




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Re: [PD] pdmax - error on Mac

[João Pais]

in the meantime, you could force running Max/MSP as amd64 code (i'm 
pretty sure that Max is a universal binary supporting both amd64 and 
arm64)

I'll try that. Is it possible to know how long a new version would take?



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[PD] pdmax - error on Mac

[João Pais]

Hi List,

I sent a patch to someone on a mac, and they had a problem with the 
pdmax external: "pd~: could not load due to incorrect architecture".


Is there a way to avoid this problem? The system is a MacBook Air M1 
Monterey 12.1. (I tried the patch on another mac with an older system, 
and it worked)


Best,

Joao




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Re: [PD] Design / Philosophy principles behind Pd development

[João Pais]

About the history of Pd, we associate often the design of Pd with 
Music III - V Max Mathew's program. Could someone validate this, I 
can't find any screenshots or design principles about Music III - V ?


I would say the association is very tenuous, comparing with Csound-type 
concepts, which is a direct descendent of the MUSIC paradigm. Although 
there is some connection between all these music softwares, the way of 
operating is very different.





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Re: [PD] send message to [r $0_something] from command line?

[João Pais]

you can send something to $0-xxx variables, but you should only do it if 
it makes sense.


I often create abstractions using $0 as an argument, such as [line-seg 1 
2 $0], and then $3 in the abstraction is the same as $0 in the parent. 
if you really want, you can export the individual $0-values to a text 
file to be read in the command line. But is it necessary?



$0 is a unique number that only the abstraction itself knows about. 
Typically you use it to keep things local. Just like you can't send a 
message to [r $0_msg] from another patch, you can't do it with 
"-send", either.


Just create a new patch, put your abstraction there and add a [receive 
foo] (without $0!) that will send the appropriate message to the 
abstraction. Now you can do


$ pd -nogui -send "foo 1"

Christof

On 12.12.2021 12:16, padovani wrote:

Hi,

I have a patch like

[r $0_msg]
|
[print]

And would like to run Pd from command line (-nogui -send "") and 
send something to the receive object.


How can I pass the '$0_msg' name in a way bash and Pd understand it?

Have tried different combinations of quotes and bars, but nothing 
works... :/


thanks!
josé

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Re: [PD] simple dynamic instancing and connection of abstractions

[João Pais]

I'm not an expert, but here some loose pointers (no pun intended) on 
this topic which might or might not fit into your concept:


- I use only pd's internal messaging, not the iem libraries for it, 
which probably allow for more interesting things.


- have a look at [jmmmp/dacm~] (dynamic) and [jmmmp/dacc~] (not dynamic) 
for very simple concepts on connecting to audio output. The problem with 
internal messages is that you have to know exactly what is the number/ID 
of the object if you want to make connections between objects. I'm not 
sure now if the ID always increases in each session, even if objects 
created before are deleted, or if the ID adjusts to how many objects are 
active - probably the latter.


- I have deleted objects with dynamic messages by simulating mouse 
actions (click and drag, then delete). Not very user-friendly.


- when creating objects, I usually put them into a subpatch dedicated 
for that, which can be reset with [clear(. But won't be possible in your 
case, if you want to delete some objects and keep others.


- instead of using dynamic connections, consider using $x arguments in 
your abstractions for send/receive variables instead. Probably easier to 
manage.


- an option could be for the patch to have all objects inside it (no 
more dynamic patching needed), and make the connections by dynamic 
routing instead.


jmmmp


hi folks, since Alexander was just covering dynamic patching in PD on 
the puredata.info  site i thought i might 
inquire about options for dynamic patching. i've perused a few 
libraries like iemguts, and a new one called clj-puredata using 
Clojure. i sent this to the dev about my use case and i thought i'd 
post it here for some advice:


i want the player/user to be able to dynamically add or remove 
instruments from a patch that is already loaded, in a live performance 
situation.


i'm planning to have a master module patch with 8 slots for 8 
instruments with approximately 10 control inlets and 2 signal outlets. 
i have currently 3 unique instruments to load, and planning on more. 
all of the instruments have exactly the same amount of inlets/outlets. 
all i need to do is load them up, hook the I/O up to the slot, and 
delete them when desired. the instruments will be abstractions, not 
subpatches.


i would just need a way for the slot to know when an abstraction is 
loaded or deleted. i can uniquely name each slot if that would work 
better for this, though i could probably have a flag, number or string 
indicating what state the slot is in - like 'add', 'remove', 'active' 
and 'disabled' or whatever.


i have briefly watched a bit of the Youtube video on dynamic patching, 
but rather than roll my own i thought i'd inquire about libraries or 
externals that could handle it. i think iemguts can handle the 
querying it seems, but the docs don't make it clear how objects 
(abstractions) are instanced and deleted or connected. i don't need to 
move anything - just load and connect an abstraction directly under a 
slot or delete it. any help appreciated!


scott


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[PD] [Öffnen],feature request: [get] and [set] template-agnostic?

[João Pais]

Hi list,

not sure if this was discussed before: would it make sense for [get], 
[set] and other pointer-related objects to be template agnostic? That 
means that an object [get mytemplate x y] wouldn't need the "mytemplate" 
argument, and it would get the fields from any pointer it receives.


This would allow to simplify the programming in some cases. The way it 
is now, it needs lots of duplicated code when getting elements from 
different struct templates.


Best,

Joao



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Re: [PD] documenting messages to/from Pd and dynamic patching

[João Pais]

The first one is mentioned in [pd Dynamic-Patching], although it
might be easier to understand if there is an example immediately
under the text.

what do you mean by "immediately under the text"?


just a couple of objects under the paragraph where it explains it. then 
it's more didactical - although the whole patch is full of such 
examples, anyway.




The second isn't mentioned at all, the search results for
"abstraction" and ".pd" return elements in other types of contexts.

You can see I also mentioned, in the same way as subpatches, that you 
can communicate with Pd patches, and I also have examples for that 
case so people could 'deduce' if I hadn't mentioned.


I guess I can be more clear that an abstraction is a Pd file, but that 
seemed obvious to me. I also didn't want to give an explicit example 
with an abstraction cause then I'd have to create yet another file. 
But this might be a good thing to call them both in th help file of 
namecanvas and this pd-message file.


I think you didn't understand - if you have an abstraction called "abs1" 
used in the patch, sending messages to pd-abs1 won't work. They need to 
be sent to pd-abs1.pd - and that could be clearly named in the 
documentation.



But I also made it clear how [namecanvas] is useful for abstractions 
in its help file, that I emphatically tell people to check for 
reference. And I don't think it makes sense to talk to an abstraction 
using its filename, cause you can't just communicate with a single 
abstraction. I also don't know of a use case that from a parent patch 
you need to send messages to abstractions like that. Seems like the 
sane way to communicate with abstractions is via inlets.


I have an abstraction which is a midiroll-type of score with more than 
35000 structs. As this is calculated dynamically when the main patch 
opens, so that I don't have to overload pd when programming. This is 
used only for the graphical display, so there are no other objects 
besides the structs. It is a quite peculiar situation,anyway.
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Re: [PD] documenting messages to/from Pd and dynamic patching

[João Pais]

but I've been using them for more than 15 years with no big issues.
Well, a few years ago Miller changed the [donecanvasdialog( message. I 
noticed that it will break dynamic patching and asked him to use a 
workaround. He was nice enough to do it. So you were just lucky ;-)


Note that the messages found in Pd patch files, like [obj ...(, are 
pretty stable. We can't really change them without breaking literally 
all existing patches. However, anything else should really be 
considered private. Particularly mnssages like [mouse(, [mouseup(, 
[donecanvasdialog( are obviously internal messages sent between Pd 
core and the GUI process. People just discovered them in the source 
code (or by watching the GUI/Pd traffic) and started (ab)using them 
for dynamic patching. The Pd extended folks included them in their 
documentation, so usage became more wide-spread. However, it was never 
officially supported in Pd vanilla.


yes, at some point it would be good to assume that they can stay and 
keep being abused (I forgot why they are "illegal"), and when possible 
new methods should come out to replace them.





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Re: [PD] documenting messages to/from Pd and dynamic patching

[João Pais]

Em sex., 26 de nov. de 2021 às 20:19, João Pais  
escreveu:


I don't see a mention to these messages: mouse, mouseup, mousedown,
relocate. And also all other messages related to gui stuff.


yeah, I didn't put it. It felt like something hard to document and for 
more extreme cases. And now that Christof says I should really keep 
out of this dark corner, I wonder if I did right.


I don't remember now exactly why these methods are "dangerous" and 
"unofficial" (it was discussed already a lot in the list anyway), but 
I've been using them for more than 15 years with no big issues. If any 
of these methods is cut, then my patches won't work anymore - hopefully 
someone else's as well.



It could also be clearly mentioned that subpatches receive
messages sent
to pd-[subpatch], and abstractions are named [abstraction].pd (if I'm
recalling correctly) - unless there is a namecanvas used in those.


how isn't it clearly mentioned?


The first one is mentioned in [pd Dynamic-Patching], although it might 
be easier to understand if there is an example immediately under the 
text. But there are enough examples of [s pd-] in the patch anyway 
to deduce it.


The second isn't mentioned at all, the search results for "abstraction" 
and ".pd" return elements in other types of contexts.
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Re: [PD] documenting messages to/from Pd and dynamic patching

[João Pais]

I don't see a mention to these messages: mouse, mouseup, mousedown, 
relocate. And also all other messages related to gui stuff.


It could also be clearly mentioned that subpatches receive messages sent 
to pd-[subpatch], and abstractions are named [abstraction].pd (if I'm 
recalling correctly) - unless there is a namecanvas used in those.



People, I'm on a roll here, updating much of the help files and 
documentation.


I just hit an important new addition, documenting "Messages to/from 
Pd" and "Dynamic Patching"


I'd like you people to revise it.

Here's the commit => 
https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/pull/1455/commits/0ec5429629eb1045c901ab9c74befd124ccb6e69


already in an open PR

Cheers





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Re: [PD] pdmax - broken pipe in macos?

[João Pais]

:) I do work on windows, but this issue happens only with macOs (which I
don't have at home, and maybe now and then would be able to get access to).

I can try to have a look, next time I'm near a mac computer.
As my past experience following build instructions is close to 90%
unsuccess rate - because something is missing in the instructions -, any
time I see an error I just abort the whole process and don't try it
anymore. It's usually too much effort and no practical benefit.

D'oh. I don't know why I though Joao was on Windows... Thanks for the
> correction!
>
> Note that lldb is the clang debugger and it works slightly different than
> GDB. But you can do the same things.
> On 17.11.2021 15:07, Lucas Cordiviola wrote:
>
> @Christof,
>
> I think Joao is needing the *macOS* pdmax.
>
> @Joao,
>
> Everything that Christof said applies if you follow the macOS part:
>
> https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/blob/master/INSTALL.txt
>
> you just need to install xcode with this command on a terminal:
>
> xcode-select --install
>
> macOS debugger is included and its called (and invoked with) "lldb".
>
> I used it one or two times only. I'm not a mac user.
>
>
> --
>
> Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
>
> On 11/17/2021 10:32 AM, Christof Ressi wrote:
>
> You would have to build the pdmax external from source with debug symbols
> to get meaningful information in the debugger. This means you would need to
> setup Msys2, as described in the "Windows" section in
> https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/blob/master/INSTALL.txt.
>
> Actually, if the aim is to only get a stacktrace, it is not necessary to
> install a graphical frontend for GDB, you can also run GDB from the command
> line.
>
> I you never compiled somthing from source it can be a bit overwhelming at
> first, but it's a valuable skill to have. There are a few Windows people on
> the list who can help you out (including myself).
>
> So I would say it's not trivial, but also not impossible :-)
>
> ---
>
> That's what I'm doing to debug subprocesses (I also needed to do this with
> [vstplugin~] a few times):
>
> 1) run Pd with DSP off and start the subprocess (here: [pd~ start()
>
> 2) find the PID of the subprocess, e.g. with "tasklist | grep " or
> with ProcessExplorer
>
> 3) attach to the subprocess; terminal:
> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/14370972/how-to-attach-a-process-in-gdb;
> Qt Creator: "Start Debuggin" -> "Attach to Running Application"
>
> 4) turn on DSP and wait for the subprocess to crash
>
> If the subprocess crashes immediately even with DSP turned off, things are
> a bit harder.
>
> ---
>
> If you can build pdmax with Visual Studio (I don't know if this is
> supported?) then things are even easier because VS has a very good built-in
> graphical debugger that can also attach to running applications.
>
> Christof
> On 17.11.2021 14:04, João Pais wrote:
>
> is that something a "normal user" like me (someone that only uses the
> surface of the software) can do, or it has to do with C or any other
> custom compiled/prepared versions?
>
> On Wed, 17 Nov 2021 at 01:06, Christof Ressi 
> wrote:
>
>> You can attach GDB to a running or even a not-yet-running application.
>> When that application crashes, you get a backtrace. That's how I found
>> the crash in the [pd~] subprocess.
>>
>> Personally, I use Qt Creator because it has a nice graphical front-end
>> for GDB where I can easily step through functions while looking at the
>> code, watch local variables, etc.
>>
>> Christof
>>
>> On 17.11.2021 00:49, Miller Puckette via Pd-list wrote:
>> > If by any chance you're using pd 0.52 (test version) then I think
>> > it can crash when used as a subprocess (this should be fixed for the
>> next
>> > test release).  If you're using Pd 0.51-4 the problem is something else.
>> >
>> > The "broken pipe" message means the subprocess died suddenly for some
>> reason.
>> > But I can't think of an easy way to figure out what killed it.
>> >
>> > cheers
>> > Miller
>> >
>> > On Sat, Nov 06, 2021 at 08:45:28PM +0100, João Pais wrote:
>> >> Hello list,
>> >>
>> >> I have a max patch with pd inside through the pd~ object. But I'm
>> getting
>> >> the "broken pipe" error in some cases in a mac, such as:
>> >>
>> >> - in a compiled standalone it usually works
>> >>
>> >> - in the original patch it doesn't
>> >>
>> >> - 

Re: [PD] pdmax - broken pipe in macos?

[João Pais]

is that something a "normal user" like me (someone that only uses the
surface of the software) can do, or it has to do with C or any other
custom compiled/prepared versions?

On Wed, 17 Nov 2021 at 01:06, Christof Ressi  wrote:

> You can attach GDB to a running or even a not-yet-running application.
> When that application crashes, you get a backtrace. That's how I found
> the crash in the [pd~] subprocess.
>
> Personally, I use Qt Creator because it has a nice graphical front-end
> for GDB where I can easily step through functions while looking at the
> code, watch local variables, etc.
>
> Christof
>
> On 17.11.2021 00:49, Miller Puckette via Pd-list wrote:
> > If by any chance you're using pd 0.52 (test version) then I think
> > it can crash when used as a subprocess (this should be fixed for the next
> > test release).  If you're using Pd 0.51-4 the problem is something else.
> >
> > The "broken pipe" message means the subprocess died suddenly for some
> reason.
> > But I can't think of an easy way to figure out what killed it.
> >
> > cheers
> > Miller
> >
> > On Sat, Nov 06, 2021 at 08:45:28PM +0100, João Pais wrote:
> >> Hello list,
> >>
> >> I have a max patch with pd inside through the pd~ object. But I'm
> getting
> >> the "broken pipe" error in some cases in a mac, such as:
> >>
> >> - in a compiled standalone it usually works
> >>
> >> - in the original patch it doesn't
> >>
> >> - both patches were made in the same system, with the latest pdmax and
> pd
> >> versions were used. I'm not sure anymore which max version or macos
> system
> >> was used to compile the standalone, if that's important (it was either
> max 7
> >> or 8).
> >>
> >> I don't have access to a mac myself, but the system where it was tested
> was
> >> a 11.6, with Max 8. It seems to me that in some systems it works, and in
> >> other it doesn't - but I don't have enough hard data to prove it.
> >>
> >> Best,
> >>
> >> Joao
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
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Re: [PD] pdmax - broken pipe in macos?

[João Pais]

It's still 0.51-4 being used. But the strange part is that it works in 
one version and it doesn't in the other. I think I remember also working 
completely in an older system, but now I would need to have access to it 
again.




If by any chance you're using pd 0.52 (test version) then I think
it can crash when used as a subprocess (this should be fixed for the next
test release).  If you're using Pd 0.51-4 the problem is something else.

The "broken pipe" message means the subprocess died suddenly for some reason.
But I can't think of an easy way to figure out what killed it.

cheers
Miller

On Sat, Nov 06, 2021 at 08:45:28PM +0100, João Pais wrote:

Hello list,

I have a max patch with pd inside through the pd~ object. But I'm getting
the "broken pipe" error in some cases in a mac, such as:

- in a compiled standalone it usually works

- in the original patch it doesn't

- both patches were made in the same system, with the latest pdmax and pd
versions were used. I'm not sure anymore which max version or macos system
was used to compile the standalone, if that's important (it was either max 7
or 8).

I don't have access to a mac myself, but the system where it was tested was
a 11.6, with Max 8. It seems to me that in some systems it works, and in
other it doesn't - but I don't have enough hard data to prove it.

Best,

Joao




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[PD] pdmax - broken pipe in macos?

[João Pais]

Hello list,

I have a max patch with pd inside through the pd~ object. But I'm 
getting the "broken pipe" error in some cases in a mac, such as:


- in a compiled standalone it usually works

- in the original patch it doesn't

- both patches were made in the same system, with the latest pdmax and 
pd versions were used. I'm not sure anymore which max version or macos 
system was used to compile the standalone, if that's important (it was 
either max 7 or 8).


I don't have access to a mac myself, but the system where it was tested 
was a 11.6, with Max 8. It seems to me that in some systems it works, 
and in other it doesn't - but I don't have enough hard data to prove it.


Best,

Joao




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[PD] [PD-announce] Click Tracker Library is 60

[João Pais CT]

Dear List,

Today the Click Tracker Library reaches 60 works, with Feldman's 2nd 
String Quartet (yes, that one). Together it comprises almost 16h of 
clicks, which could be turned into music by any interested musicians.


If there are any works you might need or want to add to this collection, 
let me know.


All the details are in http://jmmmp.github.io/clicktracker/index-library

With best regards,

João Pais

--
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Click Tracker -http://j.mp/click-tracker
Facebook -http://j.mp/clicktrackerfb

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Re: [PD] Quick question

[João Pais]

ah or probably in the tutorial I sent, including the chapter on how to
control the gop. (I'm not at home, so I can't open Pd)

On Wed, 27 Oct 2021 at 15:04, Pierre Alexandre Tremblay 
wrote:

> Ok great - I couldn’t find this in the doc so I hit my head agains the
> wall a lot…
>
> I’ll study your patch
>
> Thanks for this!
>
> > On 27 Oct 2021, at 13:11, Christof Ressi  wrote:
> >
> >
> >> I cannot find a way to graph-on-parent a struct - is it just not
> possible?
> > It is certainly possible. After all, graphical arrays are just that:
> data structure arrays inside a GOP subpatch.
> >
> > You just have to remember to set the "x range" and "y range" in the GOP
> settings to match the value range of your data structure(s).
> >
> > Attached you will find a simple example.
> >
> > Christof
> >
> > On 27.10.2021 13:12, Pierre Alexandre Tremblay wrote:
> >> Hello
> >>
> >> I’m trying to made a plotter abstraction and I cannot find a way to
> graph-on-parent a struct - is it just not possible?
> >>
> >> If not possible, is there a good repo of examples of vanilla-only
> programmed plotter abstractions that would graph-in-parent like Arrays do?
> >>
> >> Any pointer (pun intended) welcome
> >>
> >> p
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >>
> >> Pd-list@lists.iem.at
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Re: [PD] Quick question

[João Pais]

you can also see many examples of structs on gop in the jmmmp library:
faders, bezier, multiarray, matrixctrl and others whose name I can't
remember now.

On Wed, 27 Oct 2021 at 14:14, Christof Ressi  wrote:

> I cannot find a way to graph-on-parent a struct - is it just not possible?
>
> It is certainly possible. After all, graphical arrays are just that: data
> structure arrays inside a GOP subpatch.
>
> You just have to remember to set the "x range" and "y range" in the GOP
> settings to match the value range of your data structure(s).
>
> Attached you will find a simple example.
>
> Christof
> On 27.10.2021 13:12, Pierre Alexandre Tremblay wrote:
>
> Hello
>
> I’m trying to made a plotter abstraction and I cannot find a way to 
> graph-on-parent a struct - is it just not possible?
>
> If not possible, is there a good repo of examples of vanilla-only programmed 
> plotter abstractions that would graph-in-parent like Arrays do?
>
> Any pointer (pun intended) welcome
>
> p
>
>
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Re: [PD] Fwd: random routing of 8 audio-streams to 8 outputs

[João Pais]

you could use jmmmp/matrixctrl as a gui for it, with the OR mode turned on.



On Tue, 2021-10-05 at 00:08 +0200, Simon Iten wrote:



is there a somewhat elegant way to route 8 audio outputs (from
readsf~) to 8 dac~ outputs randomly (on a bang for example)?

You could use [mtx_*~ 8 8] from iemmatrix for the signal routing part.

For feeding it, you could send '8' to [mtx_randperm] which creates an
8x8 matrix that maps each input randomly to exactly one output.

Roman

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10997 Berlin (Deutschland)
Tel +49 30 74921288 | Mob +49 176 98476769
jmmmp...@gmail.com | skype: jmmmpjmmmp
https://www.facebook.com/jmmmpais

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[PD] [PD-announce] Click Tracker - Version 2.1 is out - user-defined metric subdivisions

[João Pais CT]

Dear List,


Version 2.1 of the Click Tracker is out.

The new features are user-defined metric subdivisions, and some minor 
improvements.
This feature was generously supported by the ensemble asamisimasa 
(https://www.asamisimasa.com/)



As in the previous version, you can use in any of the following ways:

- as an android app (https://bit.ly/click-tracker-mob or 
https://bit.ly/clicktracker-playstore)


- as a closed desktop app in windows (http://bit.ly/ClickTracker2-1win) 
or apple (http://bit.ly/ClickTracker2-1Apple)
Due to Apple's recent security settings, you'll need to allow the Pd and 
other externals to run on your system.


- as the traditional Pure Data patch (http://bit.ly/clicktrackerv2-1)

- as a Max/MSP patch in windows (http://bit.ly/ClickTracker2-1MaxWin) or 
apple (http://bit.ly/ClickTracker2-1MaxApple)



For more information, refer to the Click Tracker's website at 
http://j.mp/click-tracker.


You can also visit the Click Tracker on facebook - 
http://j.mp/clicktrackerfb, or check out the click track library in 
http://jmmmp.github.io/clicktracker/index-library.



With best regards,

João Pais

--
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Click Tracker -http://j.mp/click-tracker
Facebook -http://j.mp/clicktrackerfb

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Re: [PD] Working with Memory-Mapped File or Ramdisk

[João Pais]

a couple of loose thoughts, I don't know anything about pi:

- you mean that using [netsend] / [netreceive] is too slow compared to 
writing/reading to ramdisk?


- would it be better to centralize the patch+instances using pd~? (I 
imagine [clone] uses the same thread)


- if these are single values, send them through virtual midi or audio 
channels?




Hi List,

I want to share memory between several instances of PD running on 
separate reserved cores. I've tried the share-mem lib, but it has a 
very high overhead.


Since I am writing custom externals for the puredata patches, I have 
started to include writing the data to be shared into files on a 
ramdisk. It does work quite nicely, but I am wondering whether some 
more elegant solution could be done using the Memory-Mapped Files, or 
are there any other simple and fast solutions around?


Has anyone on this list experience with this? I don't actually need to 
share large data sets, mostly it's just bytes that indicate the state 
of the patch. Network based solutions have proven to be too slow.


These patches will run on raspberry pi.

Thanks!
S





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Re: [PD] Further questions on struct and the external api

[João Pais]

I’m discovering the superb world of struct (with the 3 recommended tutorials, 
all of which very biased towards the graphic angle

at least there is a visible reward for all the effort it takes to work with 
data-s

I understand the argument, but for me I read it was ‘for graphics’ - it was 
limiting until I understood it was not just for that.


it was just a joke. but yes, most of the patching around is used for 
graphic display/interaction.




what you mean with dummy? [append] needs at least one float to be declared

That is what I mean, in this case I just need key -> float array, neither of 
them would be able to trigger a creation of a new item. This is why [text] is my 
new friend, although it won’t help with nested lists and arbitrary dictionary 
style structures. I’ll find a way.
I just tried to store and retrieve a pointer from [text] , it didn't 
work. But it does work with [list]. Maybe there is some smart hack that 
allows for (pointer) to be correctly read from [text].

if you're into consoles full or red letters.

:D

I’m trying to behave so the 2 proposals you put are great.


I guess so far no one predicted that a scalar could have no variables at all.

I am aware I’m bending the concept of struct. It was not meant to be a 
dictionary, especially not with nested ones.
that indicates the principle could be improved. such like it's not 
possible to append a scalar with a symbol directly, there are still 
things to improve. if a struct template doesn't need a float, why force 
it to have one?

the question I now have is for people developing externals

Is this list the right place for that question? I would like to be able to read 
and write [text] and [struct] declared in the patch within my externals but I 
don’t know if that is possible in the API.

probably the dev list might be more helpful, although they also are here.



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Re: [PD] Further questions on struct and the external api

[João Pais]

I’m discovering the superb world of struct (with the 3 recommended tutorials, 
all of which very biased towards the graphic angle


at least there is a visible reward for all the effort it takes to work 
with data-s




but I found ways around) and my new favourite friend is [text] for that reason 
:)

2 questions:

- in the attached patch, I needed to create a dummy entry to my ‘test-item’ 
struct to be able to dynamically add entries infusing [append] - do I 
understand right?


what you mean with dummy? [append] needs at least one float to be 
declared, if that's what you mean (unless someone implements a bang 
method to add a scalar without variables). the "key" variable can be 
removed from the template, if you wish. But the scalar created isn't a 
dummy, but the array itself.


Btw you can use [append test-item] with no further arguments. But there 
will be an error message "pd-test-item.: no such field" every time it 
receives an input, although it does create the scalar. You can even 
remove all variables and leave only [struct test-item array value 
float], if you're into consoles full or red letters. I guess so far no 
one predicted that a scalar could have no variables at all.




- it seems that I would be able to find workarounds the fact we cannot search 
my dataset by making an entry that would hold my keys at the top but that is 
cumbersome so I’m now making friends with the fantastic [text] object… the 
question I now have is for people developing externals: is it possible to 
access and write to struct and/or arrays from an external developed through the 
API? I didn’t find examples doing so nor any reference to text_buf in the API 
so I wonder if anyone has any pointers on that. Worse case I can use a message 
to dump a list and then [text fromlist] but that would be limited by the 
maxlength of the said list which was a problem in Max (hence us going the extra 
mile of supporting native dicts there)

Thanks all for your help.

p


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Re: [PD] Editing GOP abstractions

[João Pais]

basically you want to rewrite an object - doesn't matter if it's gop, 
subpatch, or something else - without editing it yourself. it's a nice 
idea, maybe possible for now with some ugly message hackery, probably 
involving mouse simulation?


instead of thinking it from the receiver end (editing specific for 
subpatches), it might be more interesting to think of it from the sender 
end - a message that rewrites any object it's attached to.




Hi

When using GOP abstractions with 'Hide object name and arguments'
checked, I seem to not be able to change the arguments after creation.
When rewriting the whole argument list in a new object is too tedious,
I sometimes revert to editing the patch file with a text editor.

Is there a way to edit arguments after creation? If not, shouldn't
there be a way to support that?

Roman

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Re: [PD] Nestable Dictionaries in Pd

[João Pais]

just recalled something, see the following patches in my tutorials: 
data-s_09.pd for array encapsulation, and data-s_09a.pd on how to use 
[array] and [text] to interact with data structures. afaik that is still 
up to date info.




Dear all

I am trying to find the most Pd-vanilla-way to interface with our Dataset 
object in the FluCoMa project. In Max and SuperCollider we use Dictionaries, 
which are nestable and queryable in powerful programmatic ways, working 
essentially like interfaces to JSON-like data structures.

I’ve looked at [struct] but the [set] object does not allow to do symbols and 
(list of) floats, and [appends] seem to have the same limitations. In all 
cases, I’m not certain it is the best approach in any cases to create such a 
list in Pd...

I wonder how people do it and if I am missing an obvious workflow, especially 
with nested structures.

Any pointer (pun intended) welcome

p





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Re: [PD] Nestable Dictionaries in Pd

[João Pais]

can you post an example of a parsed content?


Thanks all for the pointers. Now it is on mer to check the other tutorials
> and find a way around. Our object does parse json in and out to file and
> std if needs be, the only idea here is a batch interface with Pd so users
> can input and retrieve en masse to our dataset world (with mlp and umap and
> other fun ML goodies - all working so soon on a repo near you if I can
> crack that last interface problem :)
>
> > On 8 Sep 2021, at 08:26, João Pais  wrote:
> >
> > is jmmmp/cellblock a model of what you could use? but adapted to lists
> and maybe not so complex?
> >
> > I tried opening your first example in [text]. As I thought, the issue is
> that commas are already reserved in pd for line changes. The output is this
> (I added a line number at the start of each line) when using carriage
> returns:
> >
> > print:  0 {
> > print:  1 "cols" : 3
> > print: 2
> > print:  3 "data" : {
> > print:  4 "entry-0" : [ -0.06755
> > print:  5 0.44185
> > print:  6 -0.33835 ]
> > print: 7
> > print:  8 "entry-1" : [ -0.12305
> > print:  9 -0.24085
> > print:  10 0.31295 ]
> > print: 11
> > print:  12 "entry-2" : [ -0.0595
> > print:  13 -0.2881
> > print:  14 0.0597 ]
> > print:  15 }
> > print: 16
> > print:  17 }
> > print: 18
> >
> > Or this without them:
> >
> > print:  0 { "cols" : 3
> > print:  1 "data" : { "entry-0" : [ -0.06755
> > print:  2 0.44185
> > print:  3 -0.33835 ]
> > print:  4 "entry-1" : [ -0.12305
> > print:  5 -0.24085
> > print:  6 0.31295 ]
> > print:  7 "entry-2" : [ -0.0595
> > print:  8 -0.2881
> > print:  9 0.0597 ] } }
> > print: 10
> >
> > which makes it a bit hard to read json files without some hacking, as
> all those commas create a new line. Unless there is another method, is it
> better to code your own json interpreter?
> >
> > One advantage of [text] is that it can be used to declare data
> structures directly - examples might be in my tutorial, I'm not sure
> anymore how far I got with it.
> >
> > Files are attached.
> >
> > Joao
> >
> >> Thanks for the quick reply!
> >>
> >> 2 use-cases.
> >>
> >> 1- we can generate or retrieve a dataset's content to use natively in
> the creative coding environment (Max Pd Sc) so that it integrates in other
> workflows of data mangling and drawing. We already have in our dataset
> object file support and single point entry and query but this allow batch
> dump and load. The structure is:
> >>
> >> {
> >>  "cols" : 3,
> >>  "data" :{
> >>  "entry-0" : [ -0.06755, 0.44185, -0.33835 ],
> >>  "entry-1" : [ -0.12305, -0.24085, 0.31295 ],
> >>  "entry-2" : [ -0.0595, -0.2881, 0.0597 ]
> >>  }
> >>
> >> }
> >>
> >>
> >> 2- we can retrieve or set the state of a complex objects. Our object
> will spit out its internal status ( for instance, a neural net) and we can
> use the values of its parameters, like below. More interestingly, we can
> also query its structure and use that information too.
> >>
> >> {
> >>  "layers" : [{
> >>  "activation" : 3,
> >>  "biases" : [ -3.076234734727154, 0.772760846709679
> ],
> >>  "cols" : 2,
> >>  "rows" : 1,
> >>  "weights" : [ [ 6.015551733036155,
> -1.826803841455323 ] ]
> >>  }
> >> ,{
> >>  "activation" : 3,
> >>  "biases" : [ -0.490600074475542 ],
> >>  "cols" : 1,
> >>  "rows" : 2,
> >>  "weights" : [ [ -3.115116035462417 ], [
> -3.969281643687132 ] ]
> >>  }
> >> ]
> >> }
> >>
> >> The key-value nesting is quite powerful for this type of open
> structure...
> >>
> >>> On 7 Sep 2021, at 15:51, Christof Ressi 
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Can you give an example of how the data is structured?
> >>>
> >>> In which ways are users supposed to interact w

Re: [PD] Nestable Dictionaries in Pd

[João Pais]

is jmmmp/cellblock a model of what you could use? but adapted to lists 
and maybe not so complex?


I tried opening your first example in [text]. As I thought, the issue is 
that commas are already reserved in pd for line changes. The output is 
this (I added a line number at the start of each line) when using 
carriage returns:


print:  0 {
print:  1 "cols" : 3
print: 2
print:  3 "data" : {
print:  4 "entry-0" : [ -0.06755
print:  5 0.44185
print:  6 -0.33835 ]
print: 7
print:  8 "entry-1" : [ -0.12305
print:  9 -0.24085
print:  10 0.31295 ]
print: 11
print:  12 "entry-2" : [ -0.0595
print:  13 -0.2881
print:  14 0.0597 ]
print:  15 }
print: 16
print:  17 }
print: 18

Or this without them:

print:  0 { "cols" : 3
print:  1 "data" : { "entry-0" : [ -0.06755
print:  2 0.44185
print:  3 -0.33835 ]
print:  4 "entry-1" : [ -0.12305
print:  5 -0.24085
print:  6 0.31295 ]
print:  7 "entry-2" : [ -0.0595
print:  8 -0.2881
print:  9 0.0597 ] } }
print: 10

which makes it a bit hard to read json files without some hacking, as 
all those commas create a new line. Unless there is another method, is 
it better to code your own json interpreter?


One advantage of [text] is that it can be used to declare data 
structures directly - examples might be in my tutorial, I'm not sure 
anymore how far I got with it.


Files are attached.

Joao


Thanks for the quick reply!

2 use-cases.

1- we can generate or retrieve a dataset's content to use natively in the 
creative coding environment (Max Pd Sc) so that it integrates in other 
workflows of data mangling and drawing. We already have in our dataset object 
file support and single point entry and query but this allow batch dump and 
load. The structure is:

{
"cols" : 3,
"data" :  {
"entry-0" : [ -0.06755, 0.44185, -0.33835 ],
"entry-1" : [ -0.12305, -0.24085, 0.31295 ],
"entry-2" : [ -0.0595, -0.2881, 0.0597 ]
}

}


2- we can retrieve or set the state of a complex objects. Our object will spit 
out its internal status ( for instance, a neural net) and we can use the values 
of its parameters, like below. More interestingly, we can also query its 
structure and use that information too.

{
"layers" : [  {
"activation" : 3,
"biases" : [ -3.076234734727154, 0.772760846709679 ],
"cols" : 2,
"rows" : 1,
"weights" : [ [ 6.015551733036155, -1.826803841455323 ] 
]
}
,   {
"activation" : 3,
"biases" : [ -0.490600074475542 ],
"cols" : 1,
"rows" : 2,
"weights" : [ [ -3.115116035462417 ], [ 
-3.969281643687132 ] ]
}
]
}

The key-value nesting is quite powerful for this type of open structure...


On 7 Sep 2021, at 15:51, Christof Ressi  wrote:

Can you give an example of how the data is structured?

In which ways are users supposed to interact with the data?

Christof

On 07.09.2021 16:37, Pierre Alexandre Tremblay wrote:

Dear all

I am trying to find the most Pd-vanilla-way to interface with our Dataset 
object in the FluCoMa project. In Max and SuperCollider we use Dictionaries, 
which are nestable and queryable in powerful programmatic ways, working 
essentially like interfaces to JSON-like data structures.

I’ve looked at [struct] but the [set] object does not allow to do symbols and 
(list of) floats, and [appends] seem to have the same limitations. In all 
cases, I’m not certain it is the best approach in any cases to create such a 
list in Pd...

I wonder how people do it and if I am missing an obvious workflow, especially 
with nested structures.

Any pointer (pun intended) welcome

p


#N canvas 253 27 402 464 10;
#X obj 13 78 text define \$0-json;
#X msg 13 58 read -c test.json;
#X obj 17 247 text get \$0-json;
#X obj 17 267 list prepend;
#X obj 17 287 list trim;
#X obj 17 307 print;
#X obj 17 227 t f f;
#X msg 23 38 read test.json;
#X obj 110 267 sel 2;
#X text 9 15 1 - open file with or without carriage returns;
#X obj 17 207 f;
#X obj 46 207 + 1;
#X obj 17 167 t b b;
#X obj 64 187 0;
#X obj 17 187 until;
#X obj 17 147 bng 15 250 50 0 empty empty empty 17 7 0 10 -262144 -1
-1;
#X text 16 114 2 - click to print the file with a line number at the
start of each line (compare with your original file);
#X obj 44 392 text tolist \$0-json;
#X obj 44 413 print;
#X obj 44 371 bng 15 250 50 0 empty empty empty 17 7 0 10 -262144 -1
-1;
#X text 20 337 maybe it helps to export the content as a list for the
processing?;
#X connect 1 0 0 0;
#X connect 2 0 3 0;
#X connect 2 1 8 0;
#X connect 3 0 4 0;
#X connect 4 0 5 0;
#X connect 6 0 2 0;
#X connect 6 1 3 1;
#X connect 7 0 0 0;
#X connect 8 0 14 1;
#X connect 10 0 11 0;
#X connect 10 0 6 0;
#X connect 11 0 10 1;
#X connect 12 0 14 0;
#X connect 12 1 13 0;
#X 

Re: [PD] Nestable Dictionaries in Pd

[João Pais]

you still have my data structures tutorials? that might be easier than 
the documentation.




I’ll give tutorial 4 a go, with the hints of everyone to see how far I can go.


On 7 Sep 2021, at 20:34, Miller Puckette  wrote:

The least-horrible way to learn about it is the "4.data.structures" tutorial
sequence.

But the whole idea of hierarchical data structures maps horribly to a
patch language - there needs to be a better way to access 'data' in Pd.

cheers
M

On Tue, Sep 07, 2021 at 08:23:58PM +0100, Pierre Alexandre Tremblay wrote:

There are plenty of examples indeed :)

I’ll give struct with text and arrays a fair fight, I find the doc especially 
quite hard to follow for non-graphical usage but it might just be me.




On 7 Sep 2021, at 19:23, João Pais  wrote:

Does the max documentation of flucoma has concrete examples of what you're 
looking for?

There is the purest_json library (which isn't vanilla), but maybe with some 
hacking it might be possible to read files. Not sure about writing, but my 
hacking isn't up to date with the current pd state.



Thanks for the quick reply!

2 use-cases.

1- we can generate or retrieve a dataset's content to use natively in the 
creative coding environment (Max Pd Sc) so that it integrates in other 
workflows of data mangling and drawing. We already have in our dataset object 
file support and single point entry and query but this allow batch dump and 
load. The structure is:

{
"cols" : 3,
"data" :  {
"entry-0" : [ -0.06755, 0.44185, -0.33835 ],
"entry-1" : [ -0.12305, -0.24085, 0.31295 ],
"entry-2" : [ -0.0595, -0.2881, 0.0597 ]
}

}


2- we can retrieve or set the state of a complex objects. Our object will spit 
out its internal status ( for instance, a neural net) and we can use the values 
of its parameters, like below. More interestingly, we can also query its 
structure and use that information too.

{
"layers" : [  {
"activation" : 3,
"biases" : [ -3.076234734727154, 0.772760846709679 ],
"cols" : 2,
"rows" : 1,
"weights" : [ [ 6.015551733036155, -1.826803841455323 ] 
]
}
,   {
"activation" : 3,
"biases" : [ -0.490600074475542 ],
"cols" : 1,
"rows" : 2,
"weights" : [ [ -3.115116035462417 ], [ 
-3.969281643687132 ] ]
}
]
}

The key-value nesting is quite powerful for this type of open structure...


On 7 Sep 2021, at 15:51, Christof Ressi  wrote:

Can you give an example of how the data is structured?

In which ways are users supposed to interact with the data?

Christof

On 07.09.2021 16:37, Pierre Alexandre Tremblay wrote:

Dear all

I am trying to find the most Pd-vanilla-way to interface with our Dataset 
object in the FluCoMa project. In Max and SuperCollider we use Dictionaries, 
which are nestable and queryable in powerful programmatic ways, working 
essentially like interfaces to JSON-like data structures.

I’ve looked at [struct] but the [set] object does not allow to do symbols and 
(list of) floats, and [appends] seem to have the same limitations. In all 
cases, I’m not certain it is the best approach in any cases to create such a 
list in Pd...

I wonder how people do it and if I am missing an obvious workflow, especially 
with nested structures.

Any pointer (pun intended) welcome

p








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Re: [PD] Nestable Dictionaries in Pd

[João Pais]

Does the max documentation of flucoma has concrete examples of what 
you're looking for?


There is the purest_json library (which isn't vanilla), but maybe with 
some hacking it might be possible to read files. Not sure about writing, 
but my hacking isn't up to date with the current pd state.




Thanks for the quick reply!

2 use-cases.

1- we can generate or retrieve a dataset's content to use natively in the 
creative coding environment (Max Pd Sc) so that it integrates in other 
workflows of data mangling and drawing. We already have in our dataset object 
file support and single point entry and query but this allow batch dump and 
load. The structure is:

{
"cols" : 3,
"data" :  {
"entry-0" : [ -0.06755, 0.44185, -0.33835 ],
"entry-1" : [ -0.12305, -0.24085, 0.31295 ],
"entry-2" : [ -0.0595, -0.2881, 0.0597 ]
}

}


2- we can retrieve or set the state of a complex objects. Our object will spit 
out its internal status ( for instance, a neural net) and we can use the values 
of its parameters, like below. More interestingly, we can also query its 
structure and use that information too.

{
"layers" : [  {
"activation" : 3,
"biases" : [ -3.076234734727154, 0.772760846709679 ],
"cols" : 2,
"rows" : 1,
"weights" : [ [ 6.015551733036155, -1.826803841455323 ] 
]
}
,   {
"activation" : 3,
"biases" : [ -0.490600074475542 ],
"cols" : 1,
"rows" : 2,
"weights" : [ [ -3.115116035462417 ], [ 
-3.969281643687132 ] ]
}
]
}

The key-value nesting is quite powerful for this type of open structure...


On 7 Sep 2021, at 15:51, Christof Ressi  wrote:

Can you give an example of how the data is structured?

In which ways are users supposed to interact with the data?

Christof

On 07.09.2021 16:37, Pierre Alexandre Tremblay wrote:

Dear all

I am trying to find the most Pd-vanilla-way to interface with our Dataset 
object in the FluCoMa project. In Max and SuperCollider we use Dictionaries, 
which are nestable and queryable in powerful programmatic ways, working 
essentially like interfaces to JSON-like data structures.

I’ve looked at [struct] but the [set] object does not allow to do symbols and 
(list of) floats, and [appends] seem to have the same limitations. In all 
cases, I’m not certain it is the best approach in any cases to create such a 
list in Pd...

I wonder how people do it and if I am missing an obvious workflow, especially 
with nested structures.

Any pointer (pun intended) welcome

p









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[PD] [PD-announce] Click Tracker Library is online

[João Pais CT]

Dear List,


You can now get the click track of your favorite piece online! (or almost)

The Click Trackerwebsite hosts now an open library with tracks sent by 
its users.
The selection is small, but hopefully will grow with time. You can find 
pieces by Carola Bauckholt, Christian Winther Christensen, Bernhard 
Lang, Mesias Maiguashca, Enno Poppe, Niklas Seidl, Simon Steen-Andersen, 
Øyvind Torvundand a couple others. These can be downloaded as a Click 
Tracker file, or mp3.


All the details in http://jmmmp.github.io/clicktracker/index-library

If you have any click track to be posted, let me know.

Best,

João Pais

--
Click Tracker Mobile -https://bit.ly/click-tracker-mob
Click Tracker -http://j.mp/click-tracker
Facebook -http://j.mp/clicktrackerfb

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[PD] Find last error

[João Pais]

Hi,

in parallel to the error discussion going on: the already existing "find 
last error" function can be quite helpful, but it doesn't always work. I 
didn't find any documentation for it (maybe I didn't search long 
enough), is it marked somewhere in which situations it works, and in 
which situations it doesn't?


From the discussion going on, I imagine this function should not be 
connected with the new object, as they have completely different 
functions, correct?


jmmmp




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Re: [PD] Binaural w32?

[João Pais]

I see that the version in deken is for all OSs except Mac, is that 
correct? Is a mac (64+32b) binary available, or it's already there, 
only deken doesn't know about it?


Lucas made a build for Linux and Windows. There isn't a build for 
macOS yet and we just need someone to upload one.


if the only difference is the darwin file, would it be possible to send 
it here? (someone I know wanted to try it, but he can't learn how to 
install/try out externals)





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Re: [PD] Binaural w32?

[João Pais]

Great, thanks. A first tryout seems to work with no issues (and sounds 
better than the previous version which was highly filtered).


I see that the version in deken is for all OSs except Mac, is that 
correct? Is a mac (64+32b) binary available, or it's already there, only 
deken doesn't know about it?


Also to confirm: if for some reason the current earplug_data.txt file 
isn't packed with earplug~, the default values within the object match 
the ones in the txt file, correct?



Ok, earplug~ 0.3.0 is ready:

https://github.com/pd-externals/earplug

Lucas (or any Windows dev), if you have time, could you make Windows 
builds for deken? Then Joao can give it a try...


Done. Its up on Deken :

~~~
earplug~[v0.3.0](Linux-amd64-32)(Linux-i386-32)(Windows-amd64-32)(Windows-i386-32).dek 


    Uploaded by lucarda @ 2021-06-06 18:45:39
~~~

:)




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Re: [PD] Binaural w32?

[João Pais]

1st order with 4 channels seems to already provide stereo spacialization

Sure, but higher ambisonics orders give more accuracy.


I'll try out. there are at least 6 sources to spatialize, which means 6x 
enconding+decoding plugins adding to the patch. I'm assuming these 
aren't the heaviest processing, but there are already up to 1000 
tabplay~ playing sometimes.



(I just want to turn a stereo signal into stereo binaural). 
I guess you also want to spatialize the signal in some way? There is 
no benefit in just "converting" a stereo track to binaural IMO, the 
stereo image just gets worse...


you're right, a spacialization will be added.


I couldn't also find any documentation on how to control the vst 
parameters in the website
Just like any other VST plugin. Have a look at the "pd parameter" 
section in vstplugin~-help.pd


ah, now I found out that the values are scaled between 0 and 1. This 
makes sense now.


Since I have you here (without abusing), do you know the most adequate 
formula to convert a xy or xyz (cartesian??) coordinate system to the 
stereoencoder coordinates (which I assume are polar?)?





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Re: [PD] Binaural w32?

[João Pais]

> now Pd (win32) always crashes when opening BinauralDecoder
and dsp on

This is a known bug with BinauralDecoder: it crashes in the process 
method if you provide less than 4 input channels (= 1st order). I 
*think* they have fixed this already. Maybe you are using an older 
version?


no, I just downloaded them for the first time. using 4 channels works.


Generally, I have the suspicion that you don't use the correct number 
of channels. Assuming you want to use 3rd order, the StereoEncoder 
needs 2 input and 16 output channels, i.e. [vstplugin~ 2 16]; 
conversely the BinauralDecoder needs 16 input and 2 output channels, 
i.e. [vstplugin~ 16 2].


ok, since I don't know anything about this topic, I didn't knew what was 
happening. 1st order with 4 channels seems to already provide stereo 
spacialization (I just want to turn a stereo signal into stereo binaural).


I couldn't also find any documentation on how to control the vst 
parameters in the website - although there is info on osc control, maybe 
I'll try that later.





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Re: [PD] Binaural w32?

[João Pais]

strangely, now Pd (win32) always crashes when opening BinauralDecoder 
and dsp on - independently if the other vstplugin is being used. That 
wasn't the case yesterday, I'm loading it exactly in the same way, with 
the same configuration.




I'm having a look, but I'm apparently not getting something. When I try

[vstplugin~] + "StereoEncoder", it only outputs a signal to the
left-ish, changing the position doesn't affect the output )0th order).

this sounds very much as if you were listening to the W-channel.


Or do you put a [vstplugin~] + "BinauralDecoder" afterwards?

if you want to listen to the spatialisationvia headphones, then: yes.





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Re: [PD] Binaural w32?

[João Pais]

I'm having a look, but I'm apparently not getting something. When I try 
[vstplugin~] + "StereoEncoder", it only outputs a signal to the 
left-ish, changing the position doesn't affect the output )0th order). 
Or do you put a [vstplugin~] + "BinauralDecoder" afterwards?



Personally, I always use [vstplugin~] + "StereoEncoder" / 
"BinauralDecoder" from the IEM plugin suite, but I'm of course biased :-)


On 01.06.2021 15:12, João Pais wrote:

Hi list,

what is the current state of the art in binaural externals? I see in 
the archives that there are several around, each with 
advantages/disadvantages.


I would need it to:

- windows 32b

- record the output of an already existing patch with x-y 
coordinates/trajectories into binaural audio


- sample rate fixed at 44.1KHz

- there are around 500 samples with an individual player, so each 
will need its own enconder. They don't play necessarily all together, 
though.


Best,

Joao 





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Re: [PD] Binaural w32?

[João Pais]

that is nice - although I can't really build anything in windows on my 
own. what are the improvements compared to the 2009 version?



I updated the earplug~ external to build using pd-lin-builder, so it 
should be easy to build on Windows:


https://github.com/pd-externals/earplug/tree/main 



It's not the best but we use it for a project at work. It can use some 
additional optimizations and the dataset is for 44.1k so you are in 
luck. For our project, we are likely to introduce resampling for other 
sample rates so it's more accurate beyond 44.1k...





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[PD] Binaural w32?

[João Pais]

Hi list,

what is the current state of the art in binaural externals? I see in the 
archives that there are several around, each with advantages/disadvantages.


I would need it to:

- windows 32b

- record the output of an already existing patch with x-y 
coordinates/trajectories into binaural audio


- sample rate fixed at 44.1KHz

- there are around 500 samples with an individual player, so each will 
need its own enconder. They don't play necessarily all together, though.


Best,

Joao




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Re: [PD] is there a way to color the points/curve in an array?

[João Pais]

Out of the blue, it would be possible to do it in gem. That might be the
best way.

hans w. koch  schrieb am Sa., 29. Mai 2021, 11:09:

> thanks joao,
>
> i looked into multiarray which of course is great,
> just for my purpose of creating an oscilloscope, where updating at
> audiorate is crucial, it didn´t seem to be the right candidate.
> your answer about limiting data refresh rate seems to confirm my
> (admittedly quick) asessment.
>
> i am trying to kind of model the mordax data eurorack module (
> https://www.mordax.net/products/data) with 8 channels.
>
> best
> hans
>
> > Am 29.05.2021 um 00:57 schrieb João Pais :
> >
> > A solution already exists for several months, [jmmmp/multiarray]. It is
> of course an abstraction using the available ressources based on data
> structures, as since they rely so heavily on tcl/tk are far from efficient.
> A practical compromise could be to limit the data's velocity, at the
> expense of the refresh rate (and still not really being cpu efficient).
> >
> >
> >> using 4 superimposed arrays to show different waveforms (e.g. phase
> differences), i was wondering, if there is a way to assign a unique color
> to each array, to visually better separate the waveforms.
> >> i found a discussion "[PD] Array Enhancements" about that (and other
> things, like "Hide Array name” - still not working) from 2009 [1] and
> another one "[PD] colored arrays?” from 2007 [2],
> >> but no tangible result - or i missed that, then sorry!
> >>
> >> if not, would that warrant a sensible feature request?
> >>
> >> thanks
> >> hans
> >
> >
> >
> >
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Re: [PD] is there a way to color the points/curve in an array?

[João Pais]

A solution already exists for several months, [jmmmp/multiarray]. It is 
of course an abstraction using the available ressources based on data 
structures, as since they rely so heavily on tcl/tk are far from 
efficient. A practical compromise could be to limit the data's velocity, 
at the expense of the refresh rate (and still not really being cpu 
efficient).




using 4 superimposed arrays to show different waveforms (e.g. phase 
differences), i was wondering, if there is a way to assign a unique color to 
each array, to visually better separate the waveforms.
i found a discussion "[PD] Array Enhancements" about that (and other things, like 
"Hide Array name” - still not working) from 2009 [1] and another one "[PD] colored 
arrays?” from 2007 [2],
but no tangible result - or i missed that, then sorry!

if not, would that warrant a sensible feature request?

thanks
hans





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[PD] [PD-announce] jmmmp library Version 0.61

[João Pais]

Hello everyone,

The jmmmp library of abstractions has been updated to version 0.61.
- added [change-symbol], [jp.urn] and [shuffle]
- added "coll.init" method to [jp.coll]
- fixed a bug in [Granulator] and with increment in [f+]
- [snaps~] right inlet change
- changed declare -stdlib and -stdpath to -lib and -path in all objects 
to conform to better practices


You can download it soon through deken, or in 
http://puredata.info/downloads/jmmmp/releases/0.61 
<http://puredata.info/downloads/jmmmp/releases/0.61?fbclid=IwAR0wbtv0NTZT1W1_X3naI1MRqiOnK5LmdPSXriyG-eN7hh8nbBlCXy7zft8>


Best,

João Pais

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[PD] [PD-announce] Click Tracker online workshop - 05.06.21 at 2:30 PM

[João Pais CT]

Dear List,


The Arte No Tempo association is organizing soon a free online workshop 
where I will show how to use my software Click Tracker. This will take 
place on Saturday, June 5, 2021 at 2:30 PM (Portuguese time).


For more information see the official event in Facebook 
https://www.facebook.com/events/835128177095754/ , and if you want to 
take part don't forget to fill in the subscription form at 
https://bit.ly/3h2a1ff


The Click Tracker assists with the composition, preparation/study and 
performance of musical works with some metric complexity; or to 
synchronize with electronic or visual medium.


The original software is available at http://j.mp/click-tracker, 
https://bit.ly/clicktracker-playstore 
<https://bit.ly/clicktracker-playstore> and on facebook - 
http://j.mp/clicktrackerfb.



With best regards,

João Pais
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Re: [PD] Manage JACK connections from Pd

[João Pais]

many years ago I did jmmmp/ardourjack-gui-help. not sure if it does what 
you wanted, or if it still works (I haven't worked in linux for a long time)


Am 26.03.2021 um 18:42 schrieb Allister Sinclair:

> Passing such a symbol to jack_connect through [shell] ends with:
>
>   ERROR ardour:send\ 1/audio_out\ 1 not a valid port

But [shell] doesn't need symbols, you can pass a plain message to it 
such as [ardour:send 7/audio_in 1( without escaping spaces, with 
perhaps a [list trim]

Does that not work ?


Le ven. 26 mars 2021 à 16:06, Roman Haefeli > a écrit :


On Fri, 2021-03-26 at 16:00 +0100, Roman Haefeli wrote:
> On Fri, 2021-03-12 at 19:20 +0100, Allister Sinclair wrote:
> > I don't know if an external exists for that but you could use
> > command
> > lines from pd.
> > (On linux I would use jack_connect and jack_disconnect commands
> > through the [ggee/shell] object.
>
> Now, that [ggee/shell] reports the proper exit code, this seemed a
> feasible approach. Not for long, though. There is no way around Pd
> prepending each symbol with a backslash. So, it is impossible to
> address a port like:
>
>   "ardour:send 7/audio_in 1"
>
> Passing such a symbol to jack_connect through [shell] ends with:
>
>   ERROR ardour:send\ 1/audio_out\ 1 not a valid port
>
> I remember a discussion going on github (can't find it right now)
> about
> whether the escaping with \ is an implementation detail that
> shouldn't
> be exposed to the user or the world outside of Pd. Now, I wonder
> whether it is [shell] not dealing properly with escaped
characters in
> symbols, or whether the culprit is actually in Pd here.
>
> I'm not quite sure how to go on about this.


Ironically, when I want to execute the command from a real terminal, I
need to escape the port names with \:

  jack_connect pure_data:output_1 ardour:A-0/audio_input\ 1

Roman

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--
Allister Sinclair


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Re: [PD] OSC limitations in Vanilla

[João Pais]

I think I had problems in the past for not having [routeOSC] and 
[packOSC] when sending/receiving from other software such as reaper, but 
I can't confirm anymore. Other softwares will work with mrpeach, but not 
necessarily with vanilla.


It's also convenient to use routeOSC for a cleaner patch structure, as 
it allows a route-style tree sorting.



I asked this on the facebook group, thought I'd ask it here as well. 
Who cannot be happy with vanilla's OSC support and still needs mrpeach 
and stuff? I mean, really really need as in there's no way to deal 
with such OSC tasks in Vanilla. Tell me what exactly please... I know 
that it can happen and how, I just wanted examples in the real world, 
and I also believe Vanilla is fine for most use cases.


I just never use OSC as all I do is inside Pd anyway :)

I see [netsend]/[netreceive] make [udpsend]/[udpreceive] obsolete 
these days for OSC... but we also have [routeOSC] and [packOSC], and 
in Vanilla's documentation we see this:  ~/no attempt is made here to 
clearly distinguish between the OSC address (symbols) and the 
following data, nor between blobs and lists of numbers - it is assumed 
that you know what types the message should contain. You can 
alternatively use the OSC objects from mrpeach which have more 
features than these./~


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Re: [PD] list item picker widget

[João Pais]

I mean there is no way to detect

hovering or a mouse key release.

I think there's [mousestate] or maybe something in one of the iem
libraries (?), and if I remember correctly, structs can declare if a
mouse is over them.

I don't know how to make a struct report mouse hovering. If it is
possible, can you elaborate this?


probably I was dreaming, or it's something I suggested privately to 
Miller, but it's not there.





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Re: [PD] list item picker widget - [declare] lib paths

[João Pais]

I'm not quite sure what the canonical declaration style is, -lib/-
path or -stdlib/-stdpath. I guess the former will work better for
Pd's own default setup.

I should say this is true since 0.50 or so. Before that, -stdlib/-
stdpath was the common thing to use.
What would be then the canonical now, no "-std"? I can change that 
easily in my patches, but would be good to have it confirmed.




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Re: [PD] Dynamically set font size of patch

[João Pais]

send [font x 100 100( to any canvas in your patch. The arguments are the 
font menu parameters.


Am 15.02.2021 um 22:05 schrieb Roman Haefeli:

Hi

Is it possible to dynamically set the font size of a patch?

Thanks,
Roman

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Re: [PD] list item picker widget

[João Pais]

you mean to show the dropdown under the selected item, probably
repeating it? Is there a "common" software where I could see the
behaviour?

Is there a common software  where I don't see that behaviour?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drop-down_list

I don't think it is such a big deal that we need to find the "truth"
here, but I thought listing selectable items _below_ the selected item
is much more common. Cannot prove that, though.


I'll add it to the list, but I'm not sure how soon I'll be able to get 
to it.



I was going to open an issue about not using any [declare]s, but I
couldn't find a public repo for jmmmp. Is there one?

I don't think so, there is so few feedback that I assumed basically I
do
these only for me.

How can you know if people cannot post issues?


My contact is in all patches and help files, it's not that hard.


  I can try to make one.

You don't have to, just because of me. Since jmmmp is available through
Deken, people might want to report issues. Ask yourself if you want
that or not. I think whatever you decide is fine.


It's not a bad idea and it isn't hard, so I can try to add it - the next 
version should soon be out, I'm almost finished adapting Landini to Pd.




Which declare issue? I imagine I only used other jmmmp objects, but
I
thought that they would all open automatically.

No, they don't. Also, the README mentions that other libraries are
involved. However, the objects in the jmmmp library do not declare what
they actually use.

For [jp.menu] to load properly, I had to [declare -path ggee -path
list-abs]. I think that could be done within [jp.menu] itself.


Strange, that should be necessary in my computer as well. I'll have to 
check it.




The most complex
abstractions use the simpler ones such as [f+], so it would be
better
not to split the objects (or to be careful with them).

I hear you. I didn't just copy something from jmmmp expecting it work
out of its context. However, it is my understanding that a library
should declare its own dependencies and not expect a user of this
library to do it.


I do that always, or it wouldn't work on my own system. But something 
went amiss here.





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Re: [PD] list item picker widget

[João Pais]

yes, that is a problem. It can be minimized according to the creation 
order, but from empiric experience in my clicktracker I have 2 dropdown 
menus very near to other menus and gui elements, which don't get 
clicked. Somehow that works fine there. I could try to find out why and 
add it to the help patch.


I think when jp.menu was launched, someone suggested a global switch, so 
that it assures all other menus stay closed when one is open.


And one problem will always be that the programmer must reserve space in 
the canvas for a full expanded menu - unless he/she does a dynamic 
canvas, based on the menu's dimensions and list size.




I found an important difference between [guilla/dropdownMenu] and
[jmmmp/jp.menu]. The former uses sliders as buttons while the latter
uses scalars of data structures. The problem with sliders is that (like
any other regular GUI widget in Pd) the lowest one gets the click if
there is an overlap. When [dropdownMenu] is placed right on top of
other GUI stuff, in expanded view you can either not click the items or
you cannot see them, depending on which order [dropdownMenu] was
created relative to the other stuff. Thus, [dropdownMenu] doesn't help
in saving screen estate.

It seems with expanded view of [jp.menu] covering other stuff, you can
still click the listed items, though the widgets below gets the click,
too. It's not ideal, but one can at least "protect" other stuff by
registering whether [jp.menu] is expanded or not.

It turns out it's a science to get this right.

Roman

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Re: [PD] list item picker widget

[João Pais]

you mean something like [jmmmp/jp.menu]?

Exactly. Thanks for the pointer. That's definitely what I was looking
for. Picking something can be done really quick, which is nice. One
small caveat: I personally find it confusing, when the drop-down covers
the selected item. I'd place the drop-down below the selected item, so
that selected item is always shown. Maybe it's just a matter of taste?


you mean to show the dropdown under the selected item, probably 
repeating it? Is there a "common" software where I could see the behaviour?




I was going to open an issue about not using any [declare]s, but I
couldn't find a public repo for jmmmp. Is there one?


I don't think so, there is so few feedback that I assumed basically I do 
these only for me. I can try to make one.


Which declare issue? I imagine I only used other jmmmp objects, but I 
thought that they would all open automatically. The most complex 
abstractions use the simpler ones such as [f+], so it would be better 
not to split the objects (or to be careful with them).





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Re: [PD] list item picker widget

[João Pais]

It's possible to build one with data structures. There may be one
from me or others on the pd forum. But it's really a pain to build.

I'm not even so worried about the pain of building, but about how you
can make something that feels good and intuitive to use given the
limited HID data you get from Pd. I mean there is no way to detect
hovering or a mouse key release. I made menu widgets that required the
user to keep the mouse key pressed while dragging, thus scrolling
through the list of available items to pick. Number boxes and sliders
work also with dragging. Nowadays, I'm starting to believe that
dragging with mouse key pressed is not an ergonomic action and I'm
going to avoid it whenever possible. Both, [jp.menu] and
[dropDownMenu], do the selection with two clicks. I think that is the
better approach.


I think there's [mousestate] or maybe something in one of the iem 
libraries (?), and if I remember correctly, structs can declare if a 
mouse is over them. But yes, there are very few options, and a solution 
using the gui's own possibilities would surely be better.






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Re: [PD] list item picker widget

[João Pais]

you mean something like [jmmmp/jp.menu]? Or to split a list horizontally 
through a gui?



It's possible to build one with data structures. There may be one from 
me or others on the pd forum. But it's really a pain to build.


In Purr Data I just made a core object "dropdown" built on the same 
simple display that an atom box has.


Best,
Jonathan

On Thursday, February 11, 2021, 7:46:02 AM EST, Roman Haefeli 
 wrote:



Hi

I'm curious what types of list item pickers widgets exist in Pd realm.
I imagine a widget that lets you select an item from a arbitrary length
list that only displays the picked item and thus uses little screen
estate when not in active use.

I don't know any but the kludgy ones I made myself. I'd be specially
interested in patched ones as opposed to externals, though externals
would be interesting to know about, too. Maybe there is something made
of data structures?


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Re: [PD] Advice on netsend to broadcast

[João Pais]

I'm preparing a patch using [netsend -u -b], sending to
192.168.178.255
with my home devices. This was working quite well, but suddenly
one
of
them stopped sending data to this address

Does the outlet of [netsend] indicate that it is connected still?
Maybe
it hasn't stopped sending, but messages are not forwarded anymore
by
the router (assuming that your computers are using wifi or ethernet
cable to router and are not connected directly). Hard to tell without
more info. You could try restart the computers and even the router.
So you also have a [netreceive -u -b] in your patch?


yes, it's connected. All computers have been restarted several times, I 
just tried the router as well but with no changes.


The same type of netreceive is being used, everything was working for a 
couple of weeks until it suddenly changed (without changing the patch or 
the system settings).



BTW: Have you tested if it transmission works when connecting to the
other computer's IP address instead of the broadcast address? If not,
does it work when you connect to localhost?


For sending, It works with 255.255.255.255, and the direct IP, but not 
with 192.168.178.255.


For receiving, It works with 192.168.178.255, and the direct IP, but not 
with 255.255.255.255.


In my both other computers, all these methods work.


Also, do you receive your own messages when sending to broadcast
address?


Yes it does, with both types of broadcast listed above.




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Re: [PD] who still needs Pd 32 bits for macOS and why?

[João Pais]

no problem, I still have pd 32b and just installed office 32b

Am 06.02.2021 um 18:49 schrieb Alexandre Torres Porres:
> in windows that's not a problem, it's common to have 64+32b software 
running


So the newest system is 64 bits but can run 32 bits like macOS mojave 
and earlier, right? Just wanna get it 100% straight. I guess that's 
the same with Linux, therefore the greatest concern is with macs indeed


Em sáb., 6 de fev. de 2021 às 14:32, João Pais <mailto:jmmmp...@gmail.com>> escreveu:




So y'all can also answer me why you need 32 builds of
windows/linux, if it has to do with externals only being
available for 32 bits. Cause my main concern is to upgrade
"relevant" libraries. But I mentioned macOS cause that's
where I can really help most.


We all know new macOS systems are 64 bits only. Now we have the
new M1 chips that I believe CANNOT run older systems. Therefore,
32 bits is deprecated!

Now, I don't know what's the deal with PCs. I guess anyone can
get any new PC computer and run Pd 32 bits if they want/need,
right? I guess I need to ask: What's the deal with windows/linux?
Do any of you suffer with 32 vs 64 bits issues? Like needing a 64
bit system and not having 64 bit externals for Pd or whatever?


in windows that's not a problem, it's common to have 64+32b
software running. I doubt that any 32b hardware is still being
produced, maybe there's some in the 2nd hand market (I also have 2
mac powerpcs at home, but don't use them, and probably it's not
worth it to consider these relevant)

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Re: [PD] who still needs Pd 32 bits for macOS and why?

[João Pais]

So y'all can also answer me why you need 32 builds of
windows/linux, if it has to do with externals only being available
for 32 bits. Cause my main concern is to upgrade "relevant"
libraries. But I mentioned macOS cause that's where I can really
help most.


We all know new macOS systems are 64 bits only. Now we have the new M1 
chips that I believe CANNOT run older systems. Therefore, 32 bits is 
deprecated!


Now, I don't know what's the deal with PCs. I guess anyone can get any 
new PC computer and run Pd 32 bits if they want/need, right? I guess I 
need to ask: What's the deal with windows/linux? Do any of you suffer 
with 32 vs 64 bits issues? Like needing a 64 bit system and not having 
64 bit externals for Pd or whatever?


in windows that's not a problem, it's common to have 64+32b software 
running. I doubt that any 32b hardware is still being produced, maybe 
there's some in the 2nd hand market (I also have 2 mac powerpcs at home, 
but don't use them, and probably it's not worth it to consider these 
relevant)


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Re: [PD] [textfile] vs [text define]

[João Pais]

It is surely overall more powerful. But when using it just for read/get 
whole lines/save, are there any concrete advantages?



[text define] is basically a more powerful and flexible replacement 
for [textfile] and [qlist]. I would only use [textfile] if you prefer 
the simpler interface or need the [add2( method. Personally, I only 
use [text define].


Christof

On 06.02.2021 14:28, João Pais wrote:

Hi list,

for simple read/get/save operation, are there are advantages on using 
[text define] instead of [textfile]?



Best,

jmmmp




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Re: [PD] who still needs Pd 32 bits for macOS and why?

[João Pais]

"my" external [leapmotion] still only exists for 32b, at some point I'll 
have to hire someone to upgrade the port if I do something with it on 
64b - https://github.com/jmmmp/Pd_Leapmotion_win


But that's surely not considered relevant, probably no one at all 
besides me uses it.


Joao

I was discussing this with Eric Lyon cause we're getting an official 
fftease 3.0 release out soon (heads up).


It seems that people who need this are the ones who still use some 
externals that were only compiled for 32 bits. So I guess the question 
should be "which relevant externals are still only available for 32 bits?"


The new macOS systems are 64 bits only, sooner or later we'll all have 
to provide 64 bit builds for the relevant externals out there.


I haven't checked them all thoroughly but it seems that all externals 
from Pd extended are available in deken for 64 bits, right? So I can't 
see why people still need 32 bit versions. Or I mean I don't know 
which library is still 32 bits only and I guess what needs to be done 
is just get them compiled for 64 bits anyway, and I could help with that.


cheers

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[PD] [textfile] vs [text define]

[João Pais]

Hi list,

for simple read/get/save operation, are there are advantages on using 
[text define] instead of [textfile]?



Best,

jmmmp




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[PD] Advice on netsend to broadcast

[João Pais]

Hello list,


I'm preparing a patch using [netsend -u -b], sending to 192.168.178.255 
with my home devices. This was working quite well, but suddenly one of 
them stopped sending data to this address (although it still receives). 
Nothing changed in the system and firewall settings. Does anyone 
experienced have any suggestion on how to counter that?


The computers are working on w10 and w7, Pd version 0.51.4.


Best,

jmmmp




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Re: [PD] [clone] settable instance number?

[João Pais]

It would be quite useful to be able to do that. For now the only workaround
is to allocate the maximum number of voices, and switch off audio/data to
the ones that aren't active.


Hi,
>
> how would I be able to set [clone]'s instance number, currently an
> argument, using a message? I am trying to create voices dynamically,
> which furthermore would introduce clicks, but make the number of voices
> dependent on some other conditions/calculations in an abstraction at
> creation time.
>
> thanks,
> P
>
>
>
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Re: [PD] Get IP from Pd + network broadcast

[João Pais]

Hi, I'm replying to both mails in one:

I wanted to check if there are any new methods to get one's own ip 
from Pd 

Are you talking about the local IP address or your public IP address?


I'm trying first to implement this on local networks, so the first. But 
I would like later to also do this for any network connection, where the 
second will be necessary (I know this only from websites such as 
whatismyip).




I read somewhere that 255.255.255.255 was also for broadcast, but 
since it's not working I imagine I read wrong. 
255.255.255.255 is indeed the broadcast address. What is not working? 
Which Pd version? Which network objects? Broadcast works just fine for 
me with [netsend -u] in Pd 0.51 on Windows 7.


Note that broadcast/multicast can only be used for local networks. 
Also, for p2p communication over the internet you need 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UDP_hole_punching.


I'll have a closer look, this is new to me. I did made performances with 
data transfer in pd (and max) in the internet some years ago, but 
haven't done this often or sistematically in a while.



Depends on the kind of subnet. If your netmask is 255.255.255.0, then
yes. But networks can be of any size and depending on the size, the
broadcast address of that network might be a different one. The IP-
Address in a local network is divided in a network-prefix and host
part. You see often addresses specified in CIDR notation, for example:
192.168.50.244/24. The '24' means that the first 24 bits of the address
are the network prefix, and the remaining 8 bits is the host part. For
getting the broadcast address of a given subnet, you set all bits of
the host part to 1, which results in x.x.x.255 for a /24 network.


I think I would try to keep it safe and use ipv4 for now.


And final question: besides netpd, are there any known public patches 
where users from several networks can connect to and send/receive data? 

Are talking about local networks or the internet?


First local, but later also internet.


Shameless plug: The next (pre)release of "aoo" will allow sending 
arbitrary OSC messages over the internet. It has methods for sending 
messages to individual peers and also "broadcast" messages to all 
connected peers. Hopefully I manage to release it soon... It's way 
overdue :-/


That is interesting. But unfortunately I'll also need to use this on 
mobiles, so I'm trying for a vanilla solution.



I've done some tests the last days, and here some more concrete 
information to who might be interested:


- I'm adding networking to my Click Tracker patch 
(http://j.mp/click-tracker), and since it will be used by musicians who 
don't even know what Pd is, it would be comfortable to avoid them search 
for computer details when on a local network.


- there isn't much data to be sent: loading the scores (a text file) to 
all users, and then basically a play/stop switch, velocity, etc.


- The purpose is to work on all OSs and android (the app version is 
based on mobmuplat)


- I've done tests on my local network using 2 computers (W10, Pd 0.51.4, 
wireless) and an android phone with mobmuplat. Sending from 
[oscformat]->[netsend -u -b] to [netreceive -u -b]->[oscparse]. The 
results are:


  - both 255.255.255.255 and 192.168.178.255 work fine in all directions

  - so does communicating with direct IPs (if I end up implementing 
this outside of local networks, I'll need to use this and prepare a 
system to manage users)


  - 255.255.255.0 doesn't work, although that's my subnetmask. Pd's 
console shows the error "a socket operation related to an unavailable 
network" (translated loosely from German)


  - strangely, one of the computers receives all messages 2x. Both when 
it's connected to wireless+lan, or also when only one of these.


  - the phone can send lists such as "list /test", but floats (as both 
float or "/list $1") aren't sent. This isn't a problem when sending from 
the computers.


Any other suggestions/experiences regarding this context?

Best,

jmmmp




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[PD] Get IP from Pd + network broadcast

[João Pais]

Hi list,


I wanted to check if there are any new methods to get one's own ip from 
Pd - that is, so that a user doesn't go check the system settings. It 
would be necessary for all windows, macos and linux. Older messages talk 
about using [shell] in unix systems, and some hack with a batch file in 
windows. If this is still the current method, how would one activate a 
batch file in windows from inside pd?



As my knowledge of network isn't that good, just to check: to send a 
broadcast message for all peers in the same network, is the correct IP 
e.g. xxx.xxx.xxx.255? I read somewhere that 255.255.255.255 was also for 
broadcast, but since it's not working I imagine I read wrong.


Resuming: to send a broadcast message in the network, it's necessary to 
know the first 3 parts of one's IP?



And final question: besides netpd, are there any known public patches 
where users from several networks can connect to and send/receive data?



Best,

jmmmp




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Re: [PD] "make app" for vanilla?

[João Pais]

I made a netpd.app that is basically a Pd.app containing patches and
externals. I use kiosk-plugin to disable menus and Pd-console. I
modified pd-gui.tcl to load the main patch automatically. If
interested, have a look at:

https://www.netpd.org/software/netpd-2.2.1_macos.dmg (for macOS)
https://www.netpd.org/software/netpd-2.2.1_windows.zip (for Windows)

I just put together the pieces, it's all based on the hard work of Dan
Wilcox. Thanks for that!


That is nice, where is it documented for both windows and mac versions?


Joao




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