Re: [PD] brainstorming on algorithmic melody generation

[Liam Goodacre]

I think we may be blurring the line between algorithmic and generative here 
(perhaps the line is not clear to begin with), but you should definitely check 
out Context: https://youtu.be/oHnRsi3saXI. It's very good at handling Markov 
chains and doing the sorts of things that Chris is describing.


From: Pd-list  on behalf of Jakob Laue 

Sent: 10 June 2019 10:42
To: Thomas Mayer
Cc: pd-list@lists.iem.at
Subject: Re: [PD] brainstorming on algorithmic melody generation

Cool, thank you very much, Thomas!

Gesendet: Freitag, 07. Juni 2019 um 00:37 Uhr
Von: "Thomas Mayer" 
An: pd-list@lists.iem.at
Betreff: Re: [PD] brainstorming on algorithmic melody generation
Hi Jakob,

On 12.03.19 18:36, Jakob Laue wrote:
> Hello!
>
> For a university project I want to develop a melody generator which has
> to transform a colloquial input (e.g. happy) into a melody which clearly
> represents this input.
>
> I am currently reading and looking for literature ..
>
> What is your experience with algorithmic sound/melody generation in Pd?
> Do you know any algorithms? Have you heard of something or somebody who
> is doing a lot with algorithms in Pd?

there is a blog for algorithmic composition that explains basic concepts
with Pd, e.g. Markov chains:
http://www.algorithmiccomposer.com/2011/06/second-order-markov-chains-in-puredata.html

I was also playing around with ideas for an app, maybe my notes and my
Pd code can help you:
https://github.com/residuum/Life-Soundtrack
https://github.com/residuum/Life-Soundtrack/blob/master/notes.md

Hth,
Thomas
--
"Prisons are needed only to provide the illusion that courts and police
are effective. They're a kind of job insurance."
(Leto II. in: Frank Herbert, God Emperor of Dune)
http://www.residuum.org/



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Re: [PD] getting back to business

[Liam Goodacre]

Welcome back to PD land!

There are several new libraries that you might want to look into--ELSE, Ofelia, 
and Context (I'm doing a little self promotion with the last one). But IMO the 
more important thing is getting up to date with changes in Vanilla.

[text] and [array] are new Vanilla objects which replace [textfile] and [table] 
respectively. They might not feel natural to someone coming from Extended, but 
once you get used to them they will improve your patching immensely.

[clone] is also new--it helps you create n number of abstractions in one 
location. [savestate] lets you save the state of an abstraction.

There may be others--this is just what comes to my mind first.

From: Pd-list  on behalf of Ignacio Lois 

Sent: 29 March 2019 01:10
To: pd-list@lists.iem.at
Subject: [PD] getting back to business

Hello everyone,
I used to do some stuff with pd-extended about eight years ago. I did a quite 
interesting and rather large project back then but I haven't really touched the 
language since [although I kept receiving these mails and sometimes I even read 
them]. I'm thinking of getting back into it, so I have two questions for you:

1. Are there any new libraries (from around 2010 onwards) I should be aware of? 
Be it because they're useful or cool or your favorite for any reason.
2. What do you think would be good katas for Pd? It doesn't matter if they're 
very basic.

Thanks!
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Re: [PD] In 2019 is there a way to detect mouse down/up?

[Liam Goodacre]

You can receive mouse and mouseup information in Vanilla by using [receive 
.x55dca8289140], where ".x55dca8289140" is a hexadecimal ID unique to the given 
canvas. However, the only way I know of retrieving that ID is using 
[hcs/canvasname], which is back to using externals.

If you accept externals then [iemguts/receivecanvas] is definitely the best way 
to go.

From: Pd-list  on behalf of Jos? de Abreu 

Sent: 14 March 2019 12:38
To: Fede Camara Halac
Cc: pd-list@lists.iem.at
Subject: Re: [PD] In 2019 is there a way to detect mouse down/up?

hid can receive mouse information? isn't a vanilla solution, but i'm curious

Em Qui, 14 de mar de 2019 09:33, Fede Camara Halac 
mailto:camaraf...@gmail.com>> escreveu:
Not the best solution, but you may be able to monitor a slider for value 
changes to emulate a click-down, click-up situation... so you'd be tricking a 
click-drag :)


fdch.github.io

> On Mar 14, 2019, at 11:02 AM, IOhannes m zmoelnig 
> mailto:zmoel...@iem.at>> wrote:
>
>> On 14.03.19 10:42, Chris McCormick wrote:
>>
>>> keep in mind that it is not touch sensitive.
>>
>> What do you mean by this? It only responds to mouse events and not touch
>> events?
>
> no. that's not what i meant.
>
> it was a(n admittedly stupid) joke on the discrepancy between a
> mouse-based interface (where you only get a boolean value of whether a
> button is clicked or not) and the expectation of a (musical) "hardware
> keyboard" that typically gives you "touch sensitive" data in the form of
> 'velocity'.
>
> fgamsdr
> IOhannes
>
>
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Re: [PD] Save patch with internal message

[Liam Goodacre]

I've never found a way of saving the patch to the current file, but if you want 
to save it to a new file, you can do this:

[savetofile newpatch.pd home/my/directory(
|
[send pd-mypatch.pd]

From: Pd-list  on behalf of Esteban Viveros 

Sent: 11 March 2019 14:56
To: Pd-List
Subject: [PD] Save patch with internal message

Hi List!

I'm tried to save a patch through internal 
messages without 
success. I tried menusave and menusaveas methods in some ways. I'm using Pd 
0.49-1 (mac).

Is it possible to save patches via internal messages yet?

Thanks for any advance! CHeers!!
--

 Esteban Viveros

www.estebanviveros.com


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Re: [PD] Query if Pd is in Edit mode for a GUI

[Liam Goodacre]

My guess is that the message stream that [receivecanvas] taps into would let 
you listen to the edit-mode state changes, but not query its state. But you 
should be able to simulate a query by applying the following logic:

--When a patch is opened, assume that edit mode is on (is this a safe 
assumption to make??)
--When you hear a message "editmode 0", assume edit mode is turned off.
--When you hear "editmode 1", assume it is turned on.

From: Alexandre Torres Porres 
Sent: 25 February 2019 23:52
To: Liam Goodacre
Cc: Pd-List
Subject: Re: [PD] Query if Pd is in Edit mode for a GUI

this shows it's possible to query if Pd is in edit mode in an external :) - 
this is what I need and I don't mean to do this in vanilla.

Though at first glance it still seems tricky to me, but I guess it's a good 
start.

thanks

Em seg, 25 de fev de 2019 às 04:04, Liam Goodacre 
mailto:liamg...@hotmail.com>> escreveu:
If I remember correctly, [iemguts/receivecanvas] sends a message when you 
change the edit mode. Not sure that you'll find a way of doing it in Vanilla 
though.

From: Pd-list 
mailto:pd-list-boun...@lists.iem.at>> on behalf 
of Alexandre Torres Porres mailto:por...@gmail.com>>
Sent: 24 February 2019 17:20
To: Pd-List
Subject: Re: [PD] Query if Pd is in Edit mode for a GUI

Em dom, 24 de fev de 2019 às 13:27, Alexandre Torres Porres 
mailto:por...@gmail.com>> escreveu:
 But if it's impossible, I'm fine with that.

Coming to think of it, Pd actually changes the appearance of its comments when 
in Edit mode, where it shows where to change the size of comments. So yeah, 
it's totally possible. But I still hope you can help me out with the golden 
hint of which built function to use from pd's source, cause I've been browsing 
the code for about an hour and couldn't find it :/
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Re: [PD] Query if Pd is in Edit mode for a GUI

[Liam Goodacre]

If I remember correctly, [iemguts/receivecanvas] sends a message when you 
change the edit mode. Not sure that you'll find a way of doing it in Vanilla 
though.

From: Pd-list  on behalf of Alexandre Torres 
Porres 
Sent: 24 February 2019 17:20
To: Pd-List
Subject: Re: [PD] Query if Pd is in Edit mode for a GUI

Em dom, 24 de fev de 2019 às 13:27, Alexandre Torres Porres 
mailto:por...@gmail.com>> escreveu:
 But if it's impossible, I'm fine with that.

Coming to think of it, Pd actually changes the appearance of its comments when 
in Edit mode, where it shows where to change the size of comments. So yeah, 
it's totally possible. But I still hope you can help me out with the golden 
hint of which built function to use from pd's source, cause I've been browsing 
the code for about an hour and couldn't find it :/
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Re: [PD] pd error detection

[Liam Goodacre]

PD can't track errors inside message boxes. For instance, if you are trying to 
send a message using [; foo some message( you will get the error message you 
described, but won't be able to find its source. It's particularly difficult to 
track when using [; $1 some message(.

From: Pd-list  on behalf of Antoine Rousseau 

Sent: 22 November 2018 08:56
To: Pd-list
Subject: Re: [PD] pd error detection

I think this happens when the error is inside a cloned abstraction. BTW 
"Find.." can't see into cloned abstractions either.

Le jeu. 22 nov. 2018 à 09:21, Peter P. 
mailto:peterpar...@fastmail.com>> a écrit :
* Matt Davey mailto:hard@gmail.com>> [2018-11-22 02:31]:
> I get errors in the console (for example, foo: no such object), but pd's
> error detection can't find the source of those errors, and when i click on
> "find last error", i get "no findable error yet."
This happens under some circumstances, but I don't know what they are.
Can you find foo using Pd's "Find..." option?



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Re: [PD] get GOP margins ? ...

[Liam Goodacre]

I don't think that there's an external for this, but if it's voodoo you're 
after, you could load the .pd file into [text] and then query the last line. 
"#X coords ..." will give you the starting values of the GOP settings.

From: Pd-list  on behalf of oliver 

Sent: 27 October 2018 21:55
To: pd-l...@mail.iem.at
Subject: [PD] get GOP margins ? ...

hi,

is there any way to query a GOP's full coordinates ?

i'm looking specifically for the margin values to do some nested GOP
mouse tracking.

i tried IEMGUTS [canvasposition] but, that only outputs the GOP's size,
not its margins.

[receivecanvas] ---> setbounds only outputs the coordinates of a real
canvas, not a GOP


may there be any undocumented voodoo method out there ?

best

oliver

--

/// http://pendler.klingt.org //
\\\ http://oliver.klingt.org  \\



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Re: [PD] save state. race condition?

[Liam Goodacre]

Apologies for hijacking this thread, but here's another idea that might 
simplify the initialization problem.

Suppose that [savestate] could take any arguments and then output them as a 
list when the object is loaded but its contents are empty. So for instance 
[savestate 1 2] would output "1 2" when it is loaded, unless it has some other 
contents to output. That way, you could specify a default setting for the 
abstraction without having to use [loadbang], as in Miller's patch.

From: Pd-list  on behalf of Liam Goodacre 

Sent: 13 October 2018 09:07
To: pd-list@lists.iem.at
Subject: Re: [PD] save state. race condition?

Since you mentioned that [savestate] fires before [loadbang], I tested it and 
it seems that it functions as a solution for [initbang] also (great!). Ie. if 
you use [savestate] to dynamically create an inlet inside the abstraction, the 
connection will not be broken if you save and re-open the parent patch.

Should this be documented also?

From: Pd-list  on behalf of Miller Puckette 

Sent: 12 October 2018 16:58
To: Atte
Cc: pd-list@lists.iem.at
Subject: Re: [PD] save state. race condition?

One thing that's potentially troublesome is combining savestate and loadbang
(and loadbang-like behavior built into GUIs as well.)  The savestate
output arrives before any loadbangs.  So there's extra work to do if
you want an object to initialize itself but also to use savestate.  Here's
an example:

#N canvas 29 70 469 394 16;
#X floatatom 103 123 7 0 0 1 high - -;
#X obj 24 313 outlet~;
#X obj 103 5 loadbang;
#X obj 24 48 inlet~;
#X floatatom 103 146 7 0 0 1 low - -;
#X msg 103 67 1;
#X obj 25 275 clip~;
#X obj 375 209 f;
#X obj 375 238 pack;
#X obj 288 145 savestate;
#X obj 288 249 unpack;
#X obj 103 34 spigot 1;
#X msg 194 34 0;
#X connect 0 0 6 2;
#X connect 0 0 7 1;
#X connect 2 0 11 0;
#X connect 3 0 6 0;
#X connect 4 0 6 1;
#X connect 4 0 8 1;
#X connect 5 0 0 0;
#X connect 6 0 1 0;
#X connect 7 0 8 0;
#X connect 8 0 9 0;
#X connect 9 0 10 0;
#X connect 9 0 12 0;
#X connect 9 1 7 0;
#X connect 10 0 0 0;
#X connect 10 1 4 0;
#X connect 11 0 5 0;
#X connect 12 0 11 1;
#X coords 0 -1 1 1 130 70 1 100 100;

I badly need to update the documentation with better examples of how to use
feaures like this...

cheers
Miller

On Fri, Oct 12, 2018 at 04:56:39PM +0200, Atte via Pd-list wrote:
> Hi
>
> I just simply flat out love the new savestate mechanism!
>
> I normally start from the example in the help, add sends/receives, I use it 
> alot with number boxes and toggles.
>
> I found that in larger patches, sometimes the states doesn't always "get to" 
> all receives, the gui elements seems to always work, but if I use a restored 
> value, I need to add a [pipe 0.0001] after the [r $0-somevalue] and where I 
> want to use it.
>
> I tried comming up with a simple example that shows this behavious, but it 
> needs a patch of a certain complexity, so I'll have to continue on the 
> bug-example.
>
> Anyone one else been bitten by this? Any tips on avoiding it?
>
> If it matters I'm on linux, pd version "0.49.0-2~bpo9+1" from debian 
> backports...
>
> Cheers
> --
> Atte
>
> http://atte.dk   http://a773.dk
>
>
>
> ___
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> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list



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Re: [PD] save state. race condition?

[Liam Goodacre]

Since you mentioned that [savestate] fires before [loadbang], I tested it and 
it seems that it functions as a solution for [initbang] also (great!). Ie. if 
you use [savestate] to dynamically create an inlet inside the abstraction, the 
connection will not be broken if you save and re-open the parent patch.

Should this be documented also?

From: Pd-list  on behalf of Miller Puckette 

Sent: 12 October 2018 16:58
To: Atte
Cc: pd-list@lists.iem.at
Subject: Re: [PD] save state. race condition?

One thing that's potentially troublesome is combining savestate and loadbang
(and loadbang-like behavior built into GUIs as well.)  The savestate
output arrives before any loadbangs.  So there's extra work to do if
you want an object to initialize itself but also to use savestate.  Here's
an example:

#N canvas 29 70 469 394 16;
#X floatatom 103 123 7 0 0 1 high - -;
#X obj 24 313 outlet~;
#X obj 103 5 loadbang;
#X obj 24 48 inlet~;
#X floatatom 103 146 7 0 0 1 low - -;
#X msg 103 67 1;
#X obj 25 275 clip~;
#X obj 375 209 f;
#X obj 375 238 pack;
#X obj 288 145 savestate;
#X obj 288 249 unpack;
#X obj 103 34 spigot 1;
#X msg 194 34 0;
#X connect 0 0 6 2;
#X connect 0 0 7 1;
#X connect 2 0 11 0;
#X connect 3 0 6 0;
#X connect 4 0 6 1;
#X connect 4 0 8 1;
#X connect 5 0 0 0;
#X connect 6 0 1 0;
#X connect 7 0 8 0;
#X connect 8 0 9 0;
#X connect 9 0 10 0;
#X connect 9 0 12 0;
#X connect 9 1 7 0;
#X connect 10 0 0 0;
#X connect 10 1 4 0;
#X connect 11 0 5 0;
#X connect 12 0 11 1;
#X coords 0 -1 1 1 130 70 1 100 100;

I badly need to update the documentation with better examples of how to use
feaures like this...

cheers
Miller

On Fri, Oct 12, 2018 at 04:56:39PM +0200, Atte via Pd-list wrote:
> Hi
>
> I just simply flat out love the new savestate mechanism!
>
> I normally start from the example in the help, add sends/receives, I use it 
> alot with number boxes and toggles.
>
> I found that in larger patches, sometimes the states doesn't always "get to" 
> all receives, the gui elements seems to always work, but if I use a restored 
> value, I need to add a [pipe 0.0001] after the [r $0-somevalue] and where I 
> want to use it.
>
> I tried comming up with a simple example that shows this behavious, but it 
> needs a patch of a certain complexity, so I'll have to continue on the 
> bug-example.
>
> Anyone one else been bitten by this? Any tips on avoiding it?
>
> If it matters I'm on linux, pd version "0.49.0-2~bpo9+1" from debian 
> backports...
>
> Cheers
> --
> Atte
>
> http://atte.dk   http://a773.dk
>
>
>
> ___
> Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list
> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list



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Re: [PD] trouble enabling Jack on Ubuntu compile

[Liam Goodacre]

Thanks, that did it!

From: Pd-list  on behalf of Max 

Sent: 04 October 2018 16:12
To: pd-list@lists.iem.at
Subject: Re: [PD] trouble enabling Jack on Ubuntu compile

do you havethe package libjack-jackd2-dev installed? (Assuming you want
to use jack2).



On 04.10.2018 16:51, Liam Goodacre wrote:
> While compiling Vanilla 0.49.0 on a fresh installation of Ubuntu 18.04,
> I'm having trouble configuring PD with the --enable-jack option. PD
> compiles fully, but I don't see Jack in the audio options, and in fact
> can't get any audio out of it at all. I have installed qjackctl and
> jack-tools. What am I missing?
>
> I'm attaching the output from './config --enable-jack'. The only lines
> in it which seem to relate to Jack are:
>
> checking for jack_set_xrun_callback in -ljack... no
> checking for jack_set_error_function in -ljack... no
>
>
> Any suggestions?
>
>
>
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[PD] trouble enabling Jack on Ubuntu compile

[Liam Goodacre]

While compiling Vanilla 0.49.0 on a fresh installation of Ubuntu 18.04, I'm 
having trouble configuring PD with the --enable-jack option. PD compiles fully, 
but I don't see Jack in the audio options, and in fact can't get any audio out 
of it at all. I have installed qjackctl and jack-tools. What am I missing?

I'm attaching the output from './config --enable-jack'. The only lines in it 
which seem to relate to Jack are:

checking for jack_set_xrun_callback in -ljack... no
checking for jack_set_error_function in -ljack... no

Any suggestions?

./configure --enable-jack
checking for a BSD-compatible install... /usr/bin/install -c
checking whether build environment is sane... yes
checking for a thread-safe mkdir -p... /bin/mkdir -p
checking for gawk... no
checking for mawk... mawk
checking whether make sets $(MAKE)... yes
checking whether make supports nested variables... yes
checking build system type... x86_64-pc-linux-gnu
checking host system type... x86_64-pc-linux-gnu
configure: iPhone SDK only available for arm-apple-darwin hosts, skipping tests
configure: Android SDK only available for arm-linux hosts, skipping tests
checking how to print strings... printf
checking for style of include used by make... GNU
checking for gcc... gcc
checking whether the C compiler works... yes
checking for C compiler default output file name... a.out
checking for suffix of executables... 
checking whether we are cross compiling... no
checking for suffix of object files... o
checking whether we are using the GNU C compiler... yes
checking whether gcc accepts -g... yes
checking for gcc option to accept ISO C89... none needed
checking whether gcc understands -c and -o together... yes
checking dependency style of gcc... gcc3
checking for a sed that does not truncate output... /bin/sed
checking for grep that handles long lines and -e... /bin/grep
checking for egrep... /bin/grep -E
checking for fgrep... /bin/grep -F
checking for ld used by gcc... /usr/bin/ld
checking if the linker (/usr/bin/ld) is GNU ld... yes
checking for BSD- or MS-compatible name lister (nm)... /usr/bin/nm -B
checking the name lister (/usr/bin/nm -B) interface... BSD nm
checking whether ln -s works... yes
checking the maximum length of command line arguments... 1572864
checking how to convert x86_64-pc-linux-gnu file names to x86_64-pc-linux-gnu 
format... func_convert_file_noop
checking how to convert x86_64-pc-linux-gnu file names to toolchain format... 
func_convert_file_noop
checking for /usr/bin/ld option to reload object files... -r
checking for objdump... objdump
checking how to recognize dependent libraries... pass_all
checking for dlltool... dlltool
checking how to associate runtime and link libraries... printf %s\n
checking for ar... ar
checking for archiver @FILE support... @
checking for strip... strip
checking for ranlib... ranlib
checking command to parse /usr/bin/nm -B output from gcc object... ok
checking for sysroot... no
checking for a working dd... /bin/dd
checking how to truncate binary pipes... /bin/dd bs=4096 count=1
checking for mt... mt
checking if mt is a manifest tool... no
checking how to run the C preprocessor... gcc -E
checking for ANSI C header files... yes
checking for sys/types.h... yes
checking for sys/stat.h... yes
checking for stdlib.h... yes
checking for string.h... yes
checking for memory.h... yes
checking for strings.h... yes
checking for inttypes.h... yes
checking for stdint.h... yes
checking for unistd.h... yes
checking for dlfcn.h... yes
checking for objdir... .libs
checking if gcc supports -fno-rtti -fno-exceptions... no
checking for gcc option to produce PIC... -fPIC -DPIC
checking if gcc PIC flag -fPIC -DPIC works... yes
checking if gcc static flag -static works... yes
checking if gcc supports -c -o file.o... yes
checking if gcc supports -c -o file.o... (cached) yes
checking whether the gcc linker (/usr/bin/ld -m elf_x86_64) supports shared 
libraries... yes
checking whether -lc should be explicitly linked in... no
checking dynamic linker characteristics... GNU/Linux ld.so
checking how to hardcode library paths into programs... immediate
checking for shl_load... no
checking for shl_load in -ldld... no
checking for dlopen... no
checking for dlopen in -ldl... yes
checking whether a program can dlopen itself... yes
checking whether a statically linked program can dlopen itself... no
checking whether stripping libraries is possible... yes
checking if libtool supports shared libraries... yes
checking whether to build shared libraries... yes
checking whether to build static libraries... yes
checking for gcc... (cached) gcc
checking whether we are using the GNU C compiler... (cached) yes
checking whether gcc accepts -g... (cached) yes
checking for gcc option to accept ISO C89... (cached) none needed
checking whether gcc understands -c and -o together... (cached) yes
checking dependency style of gcc... (cached) gcc3
checking for g++... g++
checking whether we are using the GNU C++ compiler... yes
checking whether g++ 

Re: [PD] multiple instances of a patch forbidden in 0.49, why?

[Liam Goodacre]

I support IOhannes' idea of distinguishing between opening from the menu and 
opening from the OS file system, and of asking the user if they want a new 
instance.

Another case for multiple patches is this: the user is editing a patch, but 
worries that he has misplaced a connection or damaged it somehow. So before 
saving it, he opens the earlier version from the menu, just to check that 
everything is in place. Then he closes the old version and saves the new one. I 
find myself doing this a lot, and it doesn't seem particularly "expert" to me.

Having said this, I think the new feature is worth keeping, so long as there is 
some provision for multiple instances of the same patch.

From: Pd-list  on behalf of Miller Puckette 

Sent: 22 September 2018 17:27
To: IOhannes m zm??lnig
Cc: pd-list@lists.iem.at
Subject: Re: [PD] multiple instances of a patch forbidden in 0.49, why?

Ah, yes, a fourth option: have a new "pd really-open" message to open
a file without checking if it's a duplicate.

cheers
M

On Sat, Sep 22, 2018 at 06:18:42PM +0200, IOhannes m zm??lnig wrote:
> On 9/22/18 3:17 PM, katja wrote:
> > Much to my alarm, Pd 0.49test3 prevents loading multiple instances of
> > a patch, and release notes tell us that this is on purpose.
>
>
> funnily, i recently worked on a related regression where double-clicking
> on a Pd-patch (in your favourite Windows exploder) would start a new
> instance of Pd (rather than switching to the current instance and
> raising the patch if already opened).
>
> note however, that this regression (fix) is unrelated to what you are
> describing.
>
> and i agree that it should be possible to open the same patch multiple
> times. esp. on a programmatic layer (that is: by sending messages to Pd).
> i guess, when opening an already opened patch from the menu (Ctrl-O), Pd
> could *ask* whether this is really intended.
>
>
>
> gkmdsar
> IOhannes
>




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Re: [PD] type size of a commentary

[Liam Goodacre]

There are 3 options that I can think of:


  1.  Use regular comments and change the font size in the Edit menu (but this 
will change the text size of all objects as well).
  2.  Use a [cnv] canvas object and add text into the label. You can make it 
any size you want, but white space and line-ends are difficult.
  3.  Use [cyclone/comment]


From: Pd-list  on behalf of Clemens 

Sent: 21 September 2018 08:53
To: pd-list@lists.iem.at
Subject: [PD] type size of a commentary

Hello list,

is there a way to add some words to the surface of a patch like adding a
commentary,

but with a lager type size?

Just for clarity reasons.

Cheers

Clemens




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Re: [PD] 0.49-0test1 multiple lib loading? was PD 0.49-0test1 released

[Liam Goodacre]

I do have more than one copy of Zexy lying around, but I don't think that's 
what's going on here. I've cleared all my search paths, so the only thing that 
it recognizes should be the Externals Install Directory (Pd/externals). I 
create one object [declare -lib zexy] and zexy loads. I create another [declare 
-lib zexy] object and I get the error message. Of course it's no use having two 
[declare] objects in the same patch, but it's very common to have them multiply 
loaded within abstractions, which is what is triggering it for me.

Wouldn't it be possible just to withhold this error message? I can't see why it 
would be useful in the first place.

From: Dan Wilcox 
Sent: 11 September 2018 16:44
To: Liam Goodacre
Cc: Pd-List
Subject: Re: [PD] 0.49-0test1 multiple lib loading? was PD 0.49-0test1 released

Do you have more than 1 copy of zexy in your paths? The main change is that 
-path and -lib now also search user and the pd "standard paths." See 
https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/pull/205

On Sep 11, 2018, at 4:34 PM, 
pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at<mailto:pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at> wrote:

From: Liam Goodacre mailto:liamg...@hotmail.com>>
To: "pd-l...@iem.at<mailto:pd-l...@iem.at>" 
mailto:pd-l...@iem.at>>
Subject: Re: [PD] [PD-announce] PD 0.49-0test1 released
Message-ID:
mailto:vi1pr0102mb3584477fd371e107b8e523fdfc...@vi1pr0102mb3584.eurprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com>>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

I'm thrilled about some of these updates! Infinite undoing, [savestate] and 
backslashes are really great additions.

Here are a couple of notes from my first half-hour playing around with it.


 1.  I'm getting a lot of "zexy: already loaded" error messages. It seems that 
they come every time you load a new abstraction with [declare -lib zexy] in it. 
Is this a bug, or has the expected usage of [declare] changed?


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika<http://twitter.com/danomatika>
danomatika.com<http://danomatika.com>
robotcowboy.com<http://robotcowboy.com>



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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] PD 0.49-0test1 released

[Liam Goodacre]

I'm thrilled about some of these updates! Infinite undoing, [savestate] and 
backslashes are really great additions.

Here are a couple of notes from my first half-hour playing around with it.


  1.  I'm getting a lot of "zexy: already loaded" error messages. It seems that 
they come every time you load a new abstraction with [declare -lib zexy] in it. 
Is this a bug, or has the expected usage of [declare] changed?
  2.  Are the backslashes working as intended? If I print [\; \; \$ \$ \, \,( I 
get "; \\; $ $ \\, \\,". I'm not sure what the exact usage is supposed to be, 
but this output seems confusing.

Also, is there a guide to the new intelligent patching features? I've seen the 
videos, but would like to be able to study it in more detail.

From: Pd-list  on behalf of Miller Puckette 

Sent: 11 September 2018 06:23
To: pd-annou...@iem.at
Subject: [PD] [PD-announce] PD 0.49-0test1 released

The first test version of Pd 0.49-0 is available on 
http://msp.ucsd.edu/software.htm
or (source only) via github: https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data

cheers
Miller



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[PD] recursive searching with [text search]

[Liam Goodacre]

People often ask about how to get multiple matches with [text search] (see 
here).
 There are a few ways of doing it but none of them are very optimal, and it 
seems like something that would be much easier and more efficient if it were 
implemented with code.

Would there be any traction for a new feature, say [text search -r], to allow 
for recursive searching?
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Re: [PD] write to audio array at different speeds

[Liam Goodacre]

Thanks José, I hadn't thought of that. I'd like to avoid using a second array 
if possible, as it doubles the memory usage, but I'll do it if there are no 
better options.

I've also found an object in the ggee library called [tabread4~] which sounds 
promising, but it doesn't have a help patch. Does anyone know how it works?

From: José de Abreu 
Sent: 17 July 2018 13:25
To: Liam Goodacre
Cc: PD list
Subject: Re: [PD] write to audio array at different speeds

you can use 2 tables, write to one and then phasor~ + tabread4~ to another 
tabwrite~, and if you need the process to occur faster than real time (just to 
stretch the wave after recording the first table) you can use some until + 
switch~ magic.

you can do the same process of 2 tables above in the control domain, using 
tabread4 to tabwrite for the second table (without tilde). This will need more 
math to build the until loop for picking the numbers that phasor~ would 
provide, but won't need switch~ magic for "faster than real time".

or use delread4~ with variable delay, but to calculate the right positions 
could be tricky, I don't know


Em Ter, 17 de jul de 2018 08:49, Liam Goodacre 
mailto:liamg...@hotmail.com>> escreveu:
It seems that [tabwrite~] writes only at one speed (presumably determined by 
the sample rate). But I want to use it to write audio to an array at a 
different speed. In other words, given an array of a set size, I want to 
determine that the recording will reach the end of the array at a different 
point in time than the default one.

How could this be done? Is there any way to trick [tabwrite~] into writing at a 
different speed, ie. by sending it a different sample rate? Or can we do 
something clever with [delread4~]?
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[PD] write to audio array at different speeds

[Liam Goodacre]

It seems that [tabwrite~] writes only at one speed (presumably determined by 
the sample rate). But I want to use it to write audio to an array at a 
different speed. In other words, given an array of a set size, I want to 
determine that the recording will reach the end of the array at a different 
point in time than the default one.

How could this be done? Is there any way to trick [tabwrite~] into writing at a 
different speed, ie. by sending it a different sample rate? Or can we do 
something clever with [delread4~]?
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Re: [PD] more intelligent patching (was Re: intelligent patching)

[Liam Goodacre]

Oh wow, these look great. Many thanks for working on this. It's going to make 
things so much easier!

From: Pd-list  on behalf of IOhannes m zmölnig 

Sent: 12 July 2018 12:01
To: pd-list@lists.iem.at
Subject: [PD] more intelligent patching (was Re: intelligent patching)

the summer update...

TL;DR: https://vimeo.com/album/5289665/video/279631360

I've implemented a few more features in my "intelligent patching"
pull-request [374], that might make patching easier.

so what's new:

- everything is undoable.
 - single actions can be undo with a single undo (e.g. if you've
"intelligently" connected an outlet to all inlets of an object (or
rather not so intelligently, as you want to undo that), doing a -Z
will no longer only undo the connection to the first inlet, but all
connections in one go.

- inserting an object into an existing connection
 (similar to what Max8 offers, but without wobbly lines and using a
keystroke rather than mouse foo)
 - select an object and a connection; and press -k
 - OR select two connected objects and one object that is not; and press
 -k
- bypassing an object (removing it from a connection)
 - select 3 objects that are connected in a chain; and press -k

- completely disconnect an object
 - select 1 object; and press -k

- swap connections
 - select one connection; shift-click another connection

- paste replace
 - copy (or cut) a single object (or msgbox,...); then select a number
of other objects (or msgboxes) and do "Paste Replace".
by default, the type of an "object" will not be changed (so if you try
to paste/replace a msgbox onto a floatatom, it will be ignored)...unless
your selection only contains a single type (e.g. objectboxes).
right now "paste/replace" is a separate menu entry (without keyboard
accelerator). i wonder whether it would make sense to merge it into the
ordinary "paste" -v (as you need to have a copybuffer that only
contains a single element *and* elements must be selected in the target
canvas; so the paste/replace is pretty well guarded)

- pasting with offset
 - if the position of the pasted objects (really only the first object
in the paste-buffer) is already occupied by an object, the paste will
get an offset (as with duplicate).

- autopatching into subpatches
 - when autopatching is turned on and you create a subpatch ([pd ...]),
the subpatch will automatically obtain an inlet (or inlet~, if the
upstream object has a signal outlet~), so you can keep autopatching.

that's probably it.
thanks to Alex, Dan, José & Liam for more inspirational ideas.

of course this is just a pull request, so we depend on miller to merge
it into the "master" branch :-)

mgfdsr
IOhannes

[374] https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/pull/374

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Re: [PD] Random

[Liam Goodacre]

Each new instance of [random] already seeds itself differently, so adding $0 
isn't going to change anything there. The problem is that the seeds are 
repeated when you restart PD, so you'll get the same pseudo-random results 
every time you open the program. $0 won't help here, because the $0 values also 
repeat when you restart PD.

From: Pd-list  on behalf of Peter P. 

Sent: 02 July 2018 18:26
To: pd-list@lists.iem.at
Subject: Re: [PD] Random

* Liam Goodacre  [2018-07-02 06:34]:
> Perhaps using $0 might be better then as it is unique and automatically
> assigned.
>
> But $0 itself is deterministic--the first instance is 1003, the second is 
> 1004, etc.
Yes, but it will provide a different seed to [random] inside every
abstraction. Forgive me if I understand your intentions in the wrong
way-

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[PD] [PD-announce] Context 4.0 now available on Deken

[Liam Goodacre]

Hello patchers

Context 4.0 is now available on Deken! This is a milestone release--it's fully 
documented, more or less stable, and should work "out of the box" with its own 
externals*. You can download it in Vanilla 0.48.1 by going to Help --> Find 
Externals and searching for "context".

Context is a modular sequencer that re-imagines musical compositions as a 
networks. It combines traditional step sequencing and timeline playback with 
non-linear and algorithmic paradigms, all in a small but advanced GUI.

Unlike most other sequencing software, Context is not an environment. It is a 
single object which may be replicated and interconnected to create an 
environment in the form of a network. There are endless possibilities in 
creating Context networks, and the user has a great deal of control over how 
their composition will function.

See a short demonstration video here.

Thanks to everyone on this list who has helped me with Context over the years! 
And happy patching.

Liam

* Context is an abstraction which relies heavily on standard external libraries 
(Cyclone, Zexy, Else, etc.). At the request of many new users, I've included 
copies of those externals with this release so that it runs "out of the box", 
but I know that this will cause problems for and probably irritate advanced 
patchers like yourselves. The easiest way to disable Context's built-in 
externals is simply to delete the relevant folders from the main Context 
directory. PD will then proceed to search for them in your regular search 
directories. There are more details about this in the readme file.

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Re: [PD] not resolving dollar in arguments : is it possible ?

[Liam Goodacre]

Do I understand correctly that you're trying to get the symbol "$0" or $1" into 
a list without it being interpreted? If so, then this should do it.

[list $ 0 (
|
[$1$2-argument (

From: Pd-list  on behalf of Raphaël Ilias 

Sent: 19 June 2018 09:03
To: pd-list
Subject: [PD] not resolving dollar in arguments : is it possible ?

Hello !

I'll try to ask this in a few words :

is it possible to dynamically save a $n-symbol as an argument in an 
abstraction, like you can do with [iemguts/canvasargs] but without "resolving" 
the $n index declaration ?

The idea would be to reproduce a properties panel as with iem GUIs, and be able 
to put in symbol boxes, a  $0-receiverSymbolicName or $1-$2-senderSymbolicName 
and save it as argument ?

I am trying various tricks, but unsuccessfully, see both attached patch...

if someone has a idea or even a solution !
or thinks it's stupid

have a nice day !

--
Raphaël Ilias
  ___
 phae.fr
 17 places des Halles - Ingrandes
 49123 Ingrandes Le Fresne s/ Loire
 phae.il...@gmail.com / +33 (0) 6 04 45 79 78
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[PD] strange behaviour with dynamic patching and folder declaration

[Liam Goodacre]

I'm getting strange behavior on my system when trying to dynamically create an 
object located in a patch inside my Externals folder. The object creates if GOP 
is turned off, but not if it is turned on.

Can anybody else replicated this?



  1.  Extract the attached "test-obj" folder to your Externals folder, or some 
other folder that is globally declared.
  2.  You can now create the object [test-obj] on a new canvas, even though the 
"externals/test-obj" folder is not declared.*
  3.  Download the attached "test.pd" file to another location (ie. Desktop) 
and open it.
  4.  This patch has one instance of [test-obj] in it, and instructions for how 
to dynamically create a new abstraction inside [test-obj]. On my machine, the 
new abstraction will instantiate only if [test-obj] has GOP turned off. If GOP 
is on, PD can't find "test-abstraction.pd" inside the "test-obj" folder.


* It seems that PD will search inside a folder for a file of the same name. Ie. 
when the folder "test-obj" is placed within the main "externals" folder, I can 
create the object [test-obj] but not the object [test-abstraction] I assume 
that this is a feature? Either way, the buggy behavior goes away if I declare 
the "test-obj" folder.
<>
#N canvas 96 395 694 300 10;
#X obj 357 209 test-obj;
#X msg 35 40 \; to-canvas obj 0 0 test-abstraction;
#X text 260 98 2: right click on [test-obj] and turn GOP on.;
#X text 260 46 1: click here to create an object [test-abstraction]
inside [test-obj]. No error message means it created successfully.
;
#X text 259 136 3: click the message object again to create another
[test-abstraction]. Do you get an error message?;
#X text 45 207 [namecanvas to-canvas] inside this abstraction -->;
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Re: [PD] deken package question

[Liam Goodacre]

because the database is synched at least nightly.

In that case, I would also suggest a console message that appears after deken 
upload. Something like, "Your upload was successful. Please note that it can 
take up to 24 hours before the package will appear for others to download in 
the PD repository".
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Re: [PD] deken package question

[Liam Goodacre]

So I followed your instructions and proceeded with the upload. The packages are 
all sitting there in My Folder, but not appearing when I search for them under 
Help --> Find Externals. It's been about 8 hours. Is this normal, and if not, 
what could have gone wrong?

https://puredata.info/Members/lgoodacre/software/context/4.0/

If you are looking for ideas for the command line utility, then maybe a 
--recursive switch to the 'package' command to make it search in sub-folders as 
well?

From: Pd-list  on behalf of IOhannes m zm?lnig 

Sent: 03 June 2018 20:00
To: pd-list@lists.iem.at
Subject: Re: [PD] deken package question

On Sun, Jun 03, 2018 at 03:57:27AM +0000, Liam Goodacre wrote:
> I'm not asking for anything to be changed, just  seeking advice on how to 
> make my upload without messing it up.

but *I* am looking for a solution that makes the cmdline utility more usable -
even if it requires changing things.

> If I generate the package,  delete the dummy external and the checksum, then 
> upload the package (generating a new checksum), will it work?

i still don't understand what you mean by "delete the dummy external".

probably something like the following:

~~~
cp context/foo/bar.pd_linux  context/
deken package --version 0.1 context
zip -d context\[v0.1\]*.dek context/bar.pd_linux
rm context\[v0.1\]*.dek.*
deken upload context\[v0.1]*.dek
~~~

the above *should* work (the principle; i haven't run any of the commands)
but heck, the worst thing that can happen if it doesn't
work is that you there has been some bogus upload to puredata.info, which can
manually fix; or that there hasn't been an upload at all.

fmgards
IOhannes

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Re: [PD] deken package question

[Liam Goodacre]

Hi IOhannes

I'm not asking for anything to be changed, just  seeking advice on how to make 
my upload without messing it up.

If I generate the package,  delete the dummy external and the checksum, then 
upload the package (generating a new checksum), will it work?


From: Pd-list  on behalf of IOhannes m zmölnig 

Sent: Saturday, June 2, 2018 10:41:43 PM
To: pd-list@lists.iem.at
Subject: Re: [PD] deken package question

On Fri, Jun 01, 2018 at 02:40:33PM +, Liam Goodacre wrote:
> I've got it to work, but when I generate the package it doesn't identify the 
> platform, giving me something like "context[v0.4]--.dek". I guessed that this 
> was because the externals I'm using are all in sub-folders, so I tried 
> copying one across to the main folder. Sure enough, the package now 
> identifies the platform correctly, but I'm not sure what the best course of 
> action is from here. Should I:

the main obstacle here is that this is not really the common use-case for
which deken cmdline is optimized (which is: packaging a single library,
without internal dependencies).

i think that the tool should cover the most common use cases, but there
is no need to support edge cases (the difficulty is obviously in drawing
the line).

>   1.  zip the package with the extra external, then delete it once the 
> compression is done (but this would probably invalidate the checksum?)

well, if the checksum (and/or gpg signature) are missing and you are
using `deken upload` for uploading they will be automatically
(re)generated.  (however, i was thinking about introducing "--gpg=no" and
"--hash=no" args to prevent this (also for packaging).

>   2.  zip the package without the extra external, then rename it manually

not sure i totally understand what you mean by this, but it sounds
brittle.

>   3.  something else?

probably a "--recursive" (or similar) flag to indicate that
subdirectories should be searched recursively would help (please open a
ticket in the issue tracker, if you agree).
it was a conscious decision to *not* do recursive searches by default, i
don't think i want to change that.

mgfdsar
IOhannes

>
> Thanks,
>
> Liam

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[PD] deken package question

[Liam Goodacre]

Hi all

I'm trying to use Deken developer to upload Context to the repository. I'm 
following the instructions here: 
https://github.com/pure-data/deken/tree/master/developer.

I've got it to work, but when I generate the package it doesn't identify the 
platform, giving me something like "context[v0.4]--.dek". I guessed that this 
was because the externals I'm using are all in sub-folders, so I tried copying 
one across to the main folder. Sure enough, the package now identifies the 
platform correctly, but I'm not sure what the best course of action is from 
here. Should I:


  1.  zip the package with the extra external, then delete it once the 
compression is done (but this would probably invalidate the checksum?)
  2.  zip the package without the extra external, then rename it manually
  3.  something else?

Thanks,

Liam
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Re: [PD] "too many open files" error in 0.48.1

[Liam Goodacre]

OK, I've just spent several hours on this, testing upwards of 200,000 parallel 
abstractions and crashing my computer almost as many times. But I managed to 
figure it out.

(Most of) you will be relieved to hear that the problem does not originate with 
the PD core, but with externals, as IOhannes suggested. Alex will not be 
relieved to hear that the culprit is [else/dir]. It seems that the 1019th 
instance of this object crashes PD! How strange.

I'm filing a bug report on git and moving on with my life.

Liam



From: Pd-list <pd-list-boun...@lists.iem.at> on behalf of Liam Goodacre 
<liamg...@hotmail.com>
Sent: 22 May 2018 05:36
To: pd-list@lists.iem.at
Subject: Re: [PD] "too many open files" error in 0.48.1

Thank you for the input. It will be a few days before I can do any serious 
testing, but I can answer some of your questions now.

IOhannes: yes, I upgraded PD, my externals, and my OS, all at the same time. 
I'll try it out with various different versions of the same and let you know 
what happens. But just as a heads-up, it's quite possible that I am trying to 
load more than 10,000 abstractions at once. Quite difficult to count them 
though!

If neither the externals nor the OS turn out to be the problem, I'll try to 
come up with a simple test case and get back to you.

From: Pd-list <pd-list-boun...@lists.iem.at> on behalf of IOhannes m zmölnig 
<zmoel...@iem.at>
Sent: 21 May 2018 20:50
To: pd-list@lists.iem.at
Subject: Re: [PD] "too many open files" error in 0.48.1

On 05/21/2018 09:37 PM, ub@xdv wrote:
> On 21.05.2018 20:54, Claude Heiland-Allen wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 21/05/18 19:35, ub@xdv wrote:
>>> hello,
>>>
>>> On 20.05.2018 06:50, Liam Goodacre wrote:
>>>> In 0.48.1 on Ubuntu, I'm getting a horrible scenario where PD refuses to
>>>> open patches or create any more abstractions for me. I get an error
>>>> message saying "too many open files". Granted I have a lot open, but
>>>> this is a serious problem as it means I can't access all of my old
>>>> performances. They worked fine in 0.47.
>>>>
>>>> Any ideas?
>>> this is not really a problem with pd
>>
>> I disagree. The most common cause of "too many open files" is a bug in
>> closing files properly,

intuitively i would agree.

> possible. never occured to me. is it in the issue tracker?

no (afaik). it hasn't been reported before.

>
>> because 1024 simultaneously-open files should be
>> enough for most use cases.definitely, but when someone says "Granted I have 
>> a lot open", that
> could be an understatement. or a regression of some sort.

so i did a test run, with some heavily embedded abstraction, that is
loaded a total of 1 times.
$ ulimit -Sn
1024
$ valgrind --track-fds=yes pd -noprefs -oss -nosound -nomidi -nrt
-stderr -open test.pd
[...]
==29030== FILE DESCRIPTORS: 3 open at exit.
==29030== Open file descriptor 2: /dev/pts/12
==29030==
==29030==
==29030== Open file descriptor 1: /dev/pts/12
==29030==
==29030==
==29030== Open file descriptor 0: /dev/pts/12
==29030==
==29030==
[...]
$

so there seems to be neither a temporary file-handle leak (because my
1 abstractions load just fine) nor an absolute file-handle leak
(since the only handles that are left open by the program are stdin,
stdout, stderr)


so i guess there must be something wrong with the patch.

@liam are there any externals in use? did you upgrade the entire system
or just Pd? when using an older version of Pd, does the problem persist?

gfmtdsar
IOhannes


>
>
>>
>>
>> Claude
>>
>>> , but with your shell- or system
>>> configuration limiting the number of open file descriptors.
>>>
>>> check your current shell-limit with
>>> ulimit -Sn
>>> -S is for soft limit (you can lower, but not raise, the hard limit).
>>> raise the limit in your shell with
>>> ulimit -n 65536
>>> start pd from that shell and see if the situation improves.
>>>
>>> if that doesn't help, you can check the kernel limits with
>>> cat /proc/sys/fs/file-nr
>>> which returns 3 numbers, the first of which is the number of open files,
>>> the last of which is the limit.
>>>
>>> increase the value of "nofile" in  /etc/security/limits.conf
>>> do
>>> sudo sysctl -p
>>>
>>> additional steps are required to make these settings permanent, the
>>> ulimit -n 65536 would have to go into your .bashrc so it's executed at
>>> system startup. if you normally start pd from your GUI you'd have to
>>> restart your system (act

Re: [PD] "too many open files" error in 0.48.1

[Liam Goodacre]

Thank you for the input. It will be a few days before I can do any serious 
testing, but I can answer some of your questions now.

IOhannes: yes, I upgraded PD, my externals, and my OS, all at the same time. 
I'll try it out with various different versions of the same and let you know 
what happens. But just as a heads-up, it's quite possible that I am trying to 
load more than 10,000 abstractions at once. Quite difficult to count them 
though!

If neither the externals nor the OS turn out to be the problem, I'll try to 
come up with a simple test case and get back to you.

From: Pd-list <pd-list-boun...@lists.iem.at> on behalf of IOhannes m zm?lnig 
<zmoel...@iem.at>
Sent: 21 May 2018 20:50
To: pd-list@lists.iem.at
Subject: Re: [PD] "too many open files" error in 0.48.1

On 05/21/2018 09:37 PM, ub@xdv wrote:
> On 21.05.2018 20:54, Claude Heiland-Allen wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 21/05/18 19:35, ub@xdv wrote:
>>> hello,
>>>
>>> On 20.05.2018 06:50, Liam Goodacre wrote:
>>>> In 0.48.1 on Ubuntu, I'm getting a horrible scenario where PD refuses to
>>>> open patches or create any more abstractions for me. I get an error
>>>> message saying "too many open files". Granted I have a lot open, but
>>>> this is a serious problem as it means I can't access all of my old
>>>> performances. They worked fine in 0.47.
>>>>
>>>> Any ideas?
>>> this is not really a problem with pd
>>
>> I disagree. The most common cause of "too many open files" is a bug in
>> closing files properly,

intuitively i would agree.

> possible. never occured to me. is it in the issue tracker?

no (afaik). it hasn't been reported before.

>
>> because 1024 simultaneously-open files should be
>> enough for most use cases.definitely, but when someone says "Granted I have 
>> a lot open", that
> could be an understatement. or a regression of some sort.

so i did a test run, with some heavily embedded abstraction, that is
loaded a total of 1 times.
$ ulimit -Sn
1024
$ valgrind --track-fds=yes pd -noprefs -oss -nosound -nomidi -nrt
-stderr -open test.pd
[...]
==29030== FILE DESCRIPTORS: 3 open at exit.
==29030== Open file descriptor 2: /dev/pts/12
==29030==
==29030==
==29030== Open file descriptor 1: /dev/pts/12
==29030==
==29030==
==29030== Open file descriptor 0: /dev/pts/12
==29030==
==29030==
[...]
$

so there seems to be neither a temporary file-handle leak (because my
1 abstractions load just fine) nor an absolute file-handle leak
(since the only handles that are left open by the program are stdin,
stdout, stderr)


so i guess there must be something wrong with the patch.

@liam are there any externals in use? did you upgrade the entire system
or just Pd? when using an older version of Pd, does the problem persist?

gfmtdsar
IOhannes


>
>
>>
>>
>> Claude
>>
>>> , but with your shell- or system
>>> configuration limiting the number of open file descriptors.
>>>
>>> check your current shell-limit with
>>> ulimit -Sn
>>> -S is for soft limit (you can lower, but not raise, the hard limit).
>>> raise the limit in your shell with
>>> ulimit -n 65536
>>> start pd from that shell and see if the situation improves.
>>>
>>> if that doesn't help, you can check the kernel limits with
>>> cat /proc/sys/fs/file-nr
>>> which returns 3 numbers, the first of which is the number of open files,
>>> the last of which is the limit.
>>>
>>> increase the value of "nofile" in  /etc/security/limits.conf
>>> do
>>> sudo sysctl -p
>>>
>>> additional steps are required to make these settings permanent, the
>>> ulimit -n 65536 would have to go into your .bashrc so it's executed at
>>> system startup. if you normally start pd from your GUI you'd have to
>>> restart your system (actually just xorg) so your master shell knows
>>> about the new value. there's other ways, one of which would be to start
>>> pd from a wrapper script, or probably gnome provides that sort of
>>> environmental setup for it's program shortcuts.
>>>
>>> there's more information
>>> -
>>> https://askubuntu.com/questions/162229/how-do-i-increase-the-open-files-limit-for-a-non-root-user
>>>
>>> -
>>> https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/29577/ulimit-difference-between-hard-and-soft-limits
>>>
>>>
>>> hope that helps ... cheers,
>>> ub
>>>
>>>> Liam
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 

Re: [PD] "too many open files" error in 0.48.1

[Liam Goodacre]

Thanks for this feedback, it looks very thorough. I'll work through your 
suggestions later on this week or at the weekend.

So that I can get a better handle on what's causing the issue, am I right in 
saying that each instantiation of an abstraction constitutes one file 
descriptor?

Liam

From: Pd-list <pd-list-boun...@lists.iem.at> on behalf of ub@xdv <u...@xdv.org>
Sent: 21 May 2018 19:35
To: pd-list@lists.iem.at
Subject: Re: [PD] "too many open files" error in 0.48.1

hello,

On 20.05.2018 06:50, Liam Goodacre wrote:
> In 0.48.1 on Ubuntu, I'm getting a horrible scenario where PD refuses to
> open patches or create any more abstractions for me. I get an error
> message saying "too many open files". Granted I have a lot open, but
> this is a serious problem as it means I can't access all of my old
> performances. They worked fine in 0.47.
>
> Any ideas?
this is not really a problem with pd, but with your shell- or system
configuration limiting the number of open file descriptors.

check your current shell-limit with
ulimit -Sn
-S is for soft limit (you can lower, but not raise, the hard limit).
raise the limit in your shell with
ulimit -n 65536
start pd from that shell and see if the situation improves.

if that doesn't help, you can check the kernel limits with
cat /proc/sys/fs/file-nr
which returns 3 numbers, the first of which is the number of open files,
the last of which is the limit.

increase the value of "nofile" in  /etc/security/limits.conf
do
sudo sysctl -p

additional steps are required to make these settings permanent, the
ulimit -n 65536 would have to go into your .bashrc so it's executed at
system startup. if you normally start pd from your GUI you'd have to
restart your system (actually just xorg) so your master shell knows
about the new value. there's other ways, one of which would be to start
pd from a wrapper script, or probably gnome provides that sort of
environmental setup for it's program shortcuts.

there's more information
-
https://askubuntu.com/questions/162229/how-do-i-increase-the-open-files-limit-for-a-non-root-user
-
https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/29577/ulimit-difference-between-hard-and-soft-limits

hope that helps ... cheers,
ub

>
> Liam
>
>
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[PD] "too many open files" error in 0.48.1

[Liam Goodacre]

In 0.48.1 on Ubuntu, I'm getting a horrible scenario where PD refuses to open 
patches or create any more abstractions for me. I get an error message saying 
"too many open files". Granted I have a lot open, but this is a serious problem 
as it means I can't access all of my old performances. They worked fine in 0.47.

Any ideas?

Liam
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Re: [PD] problems with [list store]

[Liam Goodacre]

Sorry, my last message wasn't clear.

The commit that you linked to seems to refer only to the help file. But I'm 
getting errors sending  "get 1" to [list store]. Is this a bug, or am I 
misunderstanding what the "get" message does?

From: Pd-list <pd-list-boun...@lists.iem.at> on behalf of Liam Goodacre 
<liamg...@hotmail.com>
Sent: 09 May 2018 16:16
To: pd-list@lists.iem.at
Subject: Re: [PD] problems with [list store]

Is it normal that I can't do "get 1" then?

From: Pd-list <pd-list-boun...@lists.iem.at> on behalf of Ingo Stock 
<m...@ingostock.de>
Sent: 09 May 2018 16:09
To: pd-list@lists.iem.at
Subject: Re: [PD] problems with [list store]

This is already fixed on github:
https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/commit/f83c88ba7ac68368248797ef0d0febc3526432bb.

"range" is not used anymore it should be "get" in the help file.

best, ingo


On 05/09/2018 04:52 PM, Liam Goodacre wrote:
> In 0.48.1, [list store] is going a bit wonky.
>
> It looks to me like "get" is being interpreted as "range" and "range"
> isn't being interpreted at all.
>
> For instance, if I store a list, say "1 2 3 4 5",
>
> "get 1" --> Bad arguments for message 'get' to object 'list store'
> "get 1 3" --> 2 3 4
> "range 1" --> list store: no method for 'range'
> "range 1 3" --> list store: no method for 'range'
>
> Note that because of these problems, the [until] loop in [pd example3]
> of the list-store help file crashes my machine.
>
> I'm on Ubuntu 18.04, using the repository version of PD.
>
> Liam
>
>
> ___
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Re: [PD] problems with [list store]

[Liam Goodacre]

Is it normal that I can't do "get 1" then?

From: Pd-list <pd-list-boun...@lists.iem.at> on behalf of Ingo Stock 
<m...@ingostock.de>
Sent: 09 May 2018 16:09
To: pd-list@lists.iem.at
Subject: Re: [PD] problems with [list store]

This is already fixed on github:
https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/commit/f83c88ba7ac68368248797ef0d0febc3526432bb.

"range" is not used anymore it should be "get" in the help file.

best, ingo


On 05/09/2018 04:52 PM, Liam Goodacre wrote:
> In 0.48.1, [list store] is going a bit wonky.
>
> It looks to me like "get" is being interpreted as "range" and "range"
> isn't being interpreted at all.
>
> For instance, if I store a list, say "1 2 3 4 5",
>
> "get 1" --> Bad arguments for message 'get' to object 'list store'
> "get 1 3" --> 2 3 4
> "range 1" --> list store: no method for 'range'
> "range 1 3" --> list store: no method for 'range'
>
> Note that because of these problems, the [until] loop in [pd example3]
> of the list-store help file crashes my machine.
>
> I'm on Ubuntu 18.04, using the repository version of PD.
>
> Liam
>
>
> ___
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[PD] problems with [list store]

[Liam Goodacre]

In 0.48.1, [list store] is going a bit wonky.

It looks to me like "get" is being interpreted as "range" and "range" isn't 
being interpreted at all.

For instance, if I store a list, say "1 2 3 4 5",

"get 1" --> Bad arguments for message 'get' to object 'list store'
"get 1 3" --> 2 3 4
"range 1" --> list store: no method for 'range'
"range 1 3" --> list store: no method for 'range'

Note that because of these problems, the [until] loop in [pd example3] of the 
list-store help file crashes my machine.

I'm on Ubuntu 18.04, using the repository version of PD.

Liam
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Re: [PD] open a pdf file from within PD to a specific location

[Liam Goodacre]

Hi Lucas

I've just taken a look at your solution. It's brilliant! This is exactly what I 
needed. Not ugly in my eyes, since it should also help to align sections with 
their page numbers in a structured way.

Alex is working on his new [link] / [openfile] object, so if you have any 
suggestions regarding anchors, maybe you could work with him?

Thank you,

Liam

From: Lucas Cordiviola <lucard...@hotmail.com>
Sent: 07 May 2018 03:44
To: Liam Goodacre; pd-list@lists.iem.at
Subject: Re: [PD] open a pdf file from within PD to a specific location


It will be nicer if someone updates [pddplink] to allow "anchor" names in local 
urls but you can get what you want with something like this:

context/main.html

context/dummylinks/section1.html
context/dummylinks/section2.html
...
...


---section1.htmlcode:







  





-


Your [pddplink dummylinks/section1.html] redirects to main.html at your anchor.


Is rather ugly but will do what you need.

It will also work for pdf --> 





Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.

On 5/6/2018 12:51 AM, Liam Goodacre wrote:
Hi all

You can use [pddplink] from the pddp library to open a file from the hard disk 
(or the as-yet unreleased [link] from ELSE). What I would like to do is open a 
pdf file to a specific location. According to 
Adobe<https://www.adobe.com/content/dam/acom/en/devnet/acrobat/pdfs/pdf_open_parameters_v9.pdf>,
 you should be able to use "/path/to/file.pd#page=20". This works if I'm 
opening a web URL, but I can't get it to work opening a local file from the 
hard drive.

I said in the subject-line that it was a pdf file, but if I could get it to 
work with an odt or a local html document I would be just as happy. I've tried 
many things but I can't seem to get it to work.

Any suggestions?



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Re: [PD] scrolling in a patch window

[Liam Goodacre]

Oh yeah, that seems to work in Linux too!

Actually, trying it in Windows now, I find that horizontal scrolling does work 
even without the Shift key. But it's extremely slow, and you can only scroll X 
or Y independently, not both at the same time.

It doesn't seem to be possible in any OS to scroll X and Y at the same time. 
Would other people find this useful? Perhaps there could be a startup flag that 
determines whether to allow dual-axis scrolling or whether to keep the current 
behavior.

From: Fede Camara Halac <camaraf...@gmail.com>
Sent: 08 May 2018 03:55
To: Liam Goodacre
Cc: Pd-list
Subject: Re: [PD] scrolling in a patch window

perhaps a shift+scroll? horizontal scrolling with a mouse wheel works with 
shift, at least in macos



> On May 7, 2018, at 10:47 PM, Liam Goodacre <liamg...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> you can't scroll horizontally.
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Re: [PD] static array/text

[Liam Goodacre]

I said creating 2 arrays with the same name DID NOT give a warning, so that 
looked like a bug to me.

Oh yeah, I can see how that is confusing. It would be nice if you got the error 
message when multiple [array define]'s are loaded.
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[PD] scrolling in a patch window

[Liam Goodacre]

Hi all

Here are some thoughts about window scrolling in a PD patch.

1. It would be a great enhancement if you could use the PageUp & PageDown 
buttons to scroll around a patch, like in a text editor.


2. Currently you can scroll vertically using touchpad scrolling (ie. two-finger 
scrolling), but you can't scroll horizontally. Is there a reason for this? 
Personally, I think it would be great if you could move around the whole patch 
using touchpad scrolling. Currently, if you want to move left or right, you can 
only use the scroll-bar.

This enhancement would also allow you to navigate more effectively with 
touch-screen devices (assuming that touching and dragging the screen is the 
same mechanism as touchpad scrolling).

Would other people approve of this?


3. Occasionally while I'm patching, touchpad scrolling seems to lock up for a 
particular window and I have to resort to using the scroll-bar. I don't think 
it's a system issue since I've noticed it on a variety of machines. If I 
re-open the window it's back to normal, but I can't find any other triggers. Do 
other people experience this? I'm not sure if it's a bug or if I'm 
unintentionally doing something to switch it off.


Liam
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Re: [PD] static array/text

[Liam Goodacre]

I didnt know you could have two [array define] with the same name without 
printing "warning: arrayname: multiply defined", and this feels like a bug to 
me, because what's the use case here? I treid using [array set] and it only did 
set one of the arrays... (the first one)

The use is to warn you against using multiple [array define]'s of the same 
name! That's a dangerous thing to do, since you're never going to know which 
array is being used (unless you happen to remember which one you created first).

There are two possibilities: either you want each instance of the array to be 
unique. In that case, use $0. Or, you want only one array. In that case, put it 
outside the abstraction.

well, by using [array set] it gives you the "warning: arrayname: multiply 
defined", so there you go... I say this is not "value" behaviour, as you still 
only have one defined array to access

PD is complaining that you have multiple [array define]'s, not multiple [array 
set]'s. You can have as many [array set]'s of the same name as you want.

However, you're right that it seems to take an [array set] to trigger this 
warning message, which is a bit confusing.


From: Alexandre Torres Porres <por...@gmail.com>
Sent: 07 May 2018 19:11
To: Liam Goodacre
Cc: Pd-list
Subject: Re: [PD] static array/text

I didnt know you could have two [array define] with the same name without 
printing "warning: arrayname: multiply defined", and this feels like a bug to 
me, because what's the use case here? I treid using [array set] and it only did 
set one of the arrays... (the first one)

2018-05-07 13:41 GMT-03:00 Liam Goodacre 
<liamg...@hotmail.com<mailto:liamg...@hotmail.com>>:
Seems like the "value behaviour" is something that could be implemented in 
[array define] with a new flag, right?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the [array] objects already have [value] like 
behavior, in that you can have multiple objects referencing the same array. The 
difference is that with [value], the reference is implicit while with [array] 
it is explicit (ie. [array define]).

The only thing a flag could do would be to tell [array define] to accept the 
first instance of a particular argument and reject the rest. But this would 
lead to a lot of confusion since you could have lots of empty [array define]'s 
scattered around the place.

The best solution is surely to put the array in a parent patch of the 
abstraction. If you don't mind putting it there yourself, you can do as Ingo 
suggested. If you want it to happen automatically, then there are neat dynamic 
patching solutions available.


From: Pd-list 
<pd-list-boun...@lists.iem.at<mailto:pd-list-boun...@lists.iem.at>> on behalf 
of Alexandre Torres Porres <por...@gmail.com<mailto:por...@gmail.com>>
Sent: 07 May 2018 15:46
To: Pd-list
Subject: Re: [PD] static array/text

Seems like the "value behaviour" is something that could be implemented in 
[array define] with a new flag, right?

2018-05-07 10:19 GMT-03:00 Antoine Rousseau 
<anto...@metalu.net<mailto:anto...@metalu.net>>:
In moonlib you can find [sarray] and [slist], which implement the [value] 
behaviour (i.e multiple declarations of a shared data) for array and list of 
symbols.
They are also dynamically re-assignable.


Antoine Rousseau
  http://www.metalu.net<http://metalu.net> __ 
http://www.metaluachahuter.com/<http://www.metaluachahuter.com/compagnies/al1-ant1/>


2018-05-07 13:47 GMT+02:00 Ingo Stock 
<m...@ingostock.de<mailto:m...@ingostock.de>>:
Maybe you can just put the text/array object into the main file, like in
the attached demo?

best, ingo


On 05/07/2018 12:02 AM, Dan Wilcox wrote:
> Is there one way to define a "static" table or text data that can be
> shared among abstractions? I have a few abstractions which use lookup
> tables and I realize now that they are basically creating a copy with
> each instance when they could really share the same data directly. I
> suppose this would be somewhat related to [value].
>
> 
> Dan Wilcox
> @danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
> danomatika.com<http://danomatika.com> <http://danomatika.com>
> robotcowboy.com<http://robotcowboy.com> <http://robotcowboy.com>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [PD] static array/text

[Liam Goodacre]

Seems like the "value behaviour" is something that could be implemented in 
[array define] with a new flag, right?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the [array] objects already have [value] like 
behavior, in that you can have multiple objects referencing the same array. The 
difference is that with [value], the reference is implicit while with [array] 
it is explicit (ie. [array define]).

The only thing a flag could do would be to tell [array define] to accept the 
first instance of a particular argument and reject the rest. But this would 
lead to a lot of confusion since you could have lots of empty [array define]'s 
scattered around the place.

The best solution is surely to put the array in a parent patch of the 
abstraction. If you don't mind putting it there yourself, you can do as Ingo 
suggested. If you want it to happen automatically, then there are neat dynamic 
patching solutions available.


From: Pd-list  on behalf of Alexandre Torres 
Porres 
Sent: 07 May 2018 15:46
To: Pd-list
Subject: Re: [PD] static array/text

Seems like the "value behaviour" is something that could be implemented in 
[array define] with a new flag, right?

2018-05-07 10:19 GMT-03:00 Antoine Rousseau 
>:
In moonlib you can find [sarray] and [slist], which implement the [value] 
behaviour (i.e multiple declarations of a shared data) for array and list of 
symbols.
They are also dynamically re-assignable.


Antoine Rousseau
  http://www.metalu.net __ 
http://www.metaluachahuter.com/


2018-05-07 13:47 GMT+02:00 Ingo Stock 
>:
Maybe you can just put the text/array object into the main file, like in
the attached demo?

best, ingo


On 05/07/2018 12:02 AM, Dan Wilcox wrote:
> Is there one way to define a "static" table or text data that can be
> shared among abstractions? I have a few abstractions which use lookup
> tables and I realize now that they are basically creating a copy with
> each instance when they could really share the same data directly. I
> suppose this would be somewhat related to [value].
>
> 
> Dan Wilcox
> @danomatika 
> danomatika.com 
> robotcowboy.com 
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [PD] static array/text

[Liam Goodacre]

I have a similar solution in Context, and I rely on it so much that I have 
created abstractions to take care of it See the files [share] and [shared] 
here. 
These objects are not documented, but I would be willing to explain them if it 
would help.

From: Pd-list  on behalf of Roman Haefeli 

Sent: 07 May 2018 08:08
To: pd-list@lists.iem.at
Subject: Re: [PD] static array/text

On Mon, 2018-05-07 at 00:02 +0200, Dan Wilcox wrote:
> Is there one way to define a "static" table or text data that can be
> shared among abstractions? I have a few abstractions which use lookup
> tables and I realize now that they are basically creating a copy with
> each instance when they could really share the same data directly. I
> suppose this would be somewhat related to [value].

Sounds like that this is such a common pattern that it would deserve a
built-in solution.

In netpd, abstractions/instruments can call/create a [unpatch-singleton
] whereas  is an arbitrary abstraction
holding a look-up table or similar that should be only instantiated
once. [unpatch-singleton] creates exactly one copy of 
and it creates it in a subpatch of  the unpatch instrument manager.
This way  persists for the whole session even if the
instrument that initially created it is closed.

https://github.com/reduzent/netpd

Roman
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[PD] open a pdf file from within PD to a specific location

[Liam Goodacre]

Hi all

You can use [pddplink] from the pddp library to open a file from the hard disk 
(or the as-yet unreleased [link] from ELSE). What I would like to do is open a 
pdf file to a specific location. According to 
Adobe,
 you should be able to use "/path/to/file.pd#page=20". This works if I'm 
opening a web URL, but I can't get it to work opening a local file from the 
hard drive.

I said in the subject-line that it was a pdf file, but if I could get it to 
work with an odt or a local html document I would be just as happy. I've tried 
many things but I can't seem to get it to work.

Any suggestions?
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Re: [PD] PD won't run on Ubuntu 18.04

[Liam Goodacre]

while you certainly have your own reasons to self-compile Pd, I just
wanted to point out that Bionic Beaver already comes with Pure Data 0.48-1.

OMG, this is the best news I've heard all week.

if you are talking about Tk: not very strange, i think.

I just meant it's strange because I don't remember having to install it on 
previous versions of Ubuntu. But I'll take an up-to-date repository over this 
any day.


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Re: [PD] PD won't run on Ubuntu 18.04

[Liam Goodacre]

This is self-compiled, and Roman's suggestion did the trick. Strange that 
Ubuntu 18.04 doesn't come with this installed.

Since we're here, can I ask what is the difference between Tcl and Tk? Up until 
today, I had assumed that they were the same package.

From: Pd-list <pd-list-boun...@lists.iem.at> on behalf of IOhannes m zm?lnig 
<zmoel...@iem.at>
Sent: 04 May 2018 09:52
To: pd-list@lists.iem.at
Subject: Re: [PD] PD won't run on Ubuntu 18.04

On 05/04/2018 06:15 AM, Liam Goodacre wrote:
> I can't get PD 0.48.1 to run on a fresh installation of 18.04 LTS. It 
> compiled fine, but when I try to run PD I get:
>
> sh: 1: wish: not found

did you install the puredata package (from Ubuntu) or self-compiled?

because the "puredata" package depends on the "puredata-gui" package
which in turn depends on the "tk" package which should provide the
"wish" interpreter.

fasrd
IOhannes

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[PD] PD won't run on Ubuntu 18.04

[Liam Goodacre]

I can't get PD 0.48.1 to run on a fresh installation of 18.04 LTS. It compiled 
fine, but when I try to run PD I get:

sh: 1: wish: not found

I've tried "sudo apt-get install tcl" but this didn't help.

It looks like others are having problems with Tcl applications as well: 
https://askubuntu.com/questions/1031632/tcl-tk-programs-fails-after-upgrade-to-18-04


Any ideas?

Liam
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Re: [PD] CONTEXT V3.0.2 tests. (was: How to declare custom libraries in abstractions)

[Liam Goodacre]

What do you usually do to use objects from these libraries? All externals 
objects are declared as [library/object] inside Context, so it it works outside 
the patch, I don't understand why it wouldn't work inside. Can you for instance 
create [iemguts/canvasargs] in a regular patch?



From: Raphaël Ilias <phae.il...@gmail.com>
Sent: 19 April 2018 16:26
To: Liam Goodacre
Cc: PD list
Subject: Re: [PD] CONTEXT V3.0.2 tests. (was: How to declare custom libraries 
in abstractions)

Good to know that my testing was useful.

However, I don't know if this is important for your testings, but I DO have 
iemguts and zexy (and cyclone, flatgui, hcs and list-abs... for the ones you 
use) already installed via Deken (so on Mac OS X now they're put in 
/Users/myuseraccount/Library/Pd/).

I'll look deeper into Context when I have time, but it looks a huge amount of 
work.

all the best,

Raphaël


2018-04-19 16:55 GMT+02:00 Liam Goodacre 
<liamg...@hotmail.com<mailto:liamg...@hotmail.com>>:
Thanks Raphaël. It's especially good to know that Context works on Mac, since I 
haven't tested it there myself.

It looks like you don't have the zexy, iemguts or else installed. You can get 
them from Help-->Find Externals if you want, but the important thing is that 
Context works with the built in externals.

If you want to understand about resizing and shifting toggle floats, you can 
look at helpfiles/GUI_manioulation.pd

Let me know if you have any questions or suggestions!

Liam

From: Raphaël Ilias <phae.il...@gmail.com<mailto:phae.il...@gmail.com>>
Sent: 19 April 2018 12:56
Cc: Liam Goodacre; PD list
Subject: Re: [PD] CONTEXT V3.0.2 tests. (was: How to declare custom libraries 
in abstractions)

Hi,

I might be late for the answer... I didn't know Context, but I just had a quick 
look about it and seems interesting concept.
I am trying "externs-test.pd". I am using Macbook Pro 2012 with OS X 10.10.5 
Yosemite and pd-vanilla 0.48-1

1. I don't have any "couldn't create" on load

2. I don't really know yet how to "resizing and shifting toggle floats"

3. The 4 objects seems to create but none of their help-files open with 
"right-click > Help"

4. I quit pd, renamed the 8 libraries folder as "_OUT_libraryname/" and 
re-opened "externs-test.pd" :

1B. Now I have a lot of "couldn't create" on load :
- demux
- l2s
- sort
- mux
- urn
- else/break &
- msgfile
- iemguts/initbang
- else/fromany
- else/toany
- else/routeall
- s2l
- time
- iemmatrix/matrix
- iemmatrix/mtx_check
...
and a few chords that couldn't be created, and missing arrays (0-IDshare)

2B : still don't know how to "resize and shift toggle floats"

3B : [s2l] and [else/toany] don't create. The other two do open their 
help-patches with "right-click > Help"

NB : i don't have else library installed originally


Hope this helps !

cheers,

Raphaël


2018-04-15 6:26 GMT+02:00 Lucas Cordiviola 
<lucard...@hotmail.com<mailto:lucard...@hotmail.com>>:

Hi Liam,

Amazing patching!

-


1: When you open this patch, are there any "couldn't create" messages in the 
console? If so, tell me!


There are not "couldn't create" on "externs-test.pd" but I found:

 cyclone/tanh~
... couldn't create

going through examples that use [docfiles/glock~].

On "12_overlay_examples.pd" & 
"13_embedding_(takes_several_minutes_to_load!).pd" i get:


 <~
... couldn't create
 &&~
... couldn't create
 <~
... couldn't create
 &&~
... couldn't create
 <~
... couldn't create
 &&~
... couldn't create



2: Does Context seem to be working correctly? Try resizing it and shifting 
toggle floats to see.;


Resizing seems to work. I don't know what you mean with "shifting toggle floats 
to see".

Notes: when using "externs-test.pd" if I click on the *lower left toggle* i get:

0-crxyoff: no such object
0-roff: no such object
0-notsafe: no such object
0-roff2: no such object
0-crxyoff: no such object

But is not the case if I create a new patch and a new [context].

3: If the following objects have created correctly, can you call the helpfiles?


I can not open the help files.

Note: I have temporarily switched off my normal externals folder.

---

I can not open "00_first_time_tutorial.pd" it crashes Pd.






--

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On 4/14/2018 9:10 AM, Liam Goodacre wrote:
I figured out what the difference was between mine and Alex's screenshots. In 
my case, the "custom search location" was also the folder that the patch was 
saved into. So it was loading an external relative to this, not the custom 
search folder.

I've uploaded a draft of Context with externals which I hope will work "out of 
the box"

Re: [PD] CONTEXT V3.0.2 tests. (was: How to declare custom libraries in abstractions)

[Liam Goodacre]

Thanks Raphaël. It's especially good to know that Context works on Mac, since I 
haven't tested it there myself.

It looks like you don't have the zexy, iemguts or else installed. You can get 
them from Help-->Find Externals if you want, but the important thing is that 
Context works with the built in externals.

If you want to understand about resizing and shifting toggle floats, you can 
look at helpfiles/GUI_manioulation.pd

Let me know if you have any questions or suggestions!

Liam

From: Raphaël Ilias <phae.il...@gmail.com>
Sent: 19 April 2018 12:56
Cc: Liam Goodacre; PD list
Subject: Re: [PD] CONTEXT V3.0.2 tests. (was: How to declare custom libraries 
in abstractions)

Hi,

I might be late for the answer... I didn't know Context, but I just had a quick 
look about it and seems interesting concept.
I am trying "externs-test.pd". I am using Macbook Pro 2012 with OS X 10.10.5 
Yosemite and pd-vanilla 0.48-1

1. I don't have any "couldn't create" on load

2. I don't really know yet how to "resizing and shifting toggle floats"

3. The 4 objects seems to create but none of their help-files open with 
"right-click > Help"

4. I quit pd, renamed the 8 libraries folder as "_OUT_libraryname/" and 
re-opened "externs-test.pd" :

1B. Now I have a lot of "couldn't create" on load :
- demux
- l2s
- sort
- mux
- urn
- else/break &
- msgfile
- iemguts/initbang
- else/fromany
- else/toany
- else/routeall
- s2l
- time
- iemmatrix/matrix
- iemmatrix/mtx_check
...
and a few chords that couldn't be created, and missing arrays (0-IDshare)

2B : still don't know how to "resize and shift toggle floats"

3B : [s2l] and [else/toany] don't create. The other two do open their 
help-patches with "right-click > Help"

NB : i don't have else library installed originally


Hope this helps !

cheers,

Raphaël


2018-04-15 6:26 GMT+02:00 Lucas Cordiviola 
<lucard...@hotmail.com<mailto:lucard...@hotmail.com>>:

Hi Liam,

Amazing patching!

-


1: When you open this patch, are there any "couldn't create" messages in the 
console? If so, tell me!


There are not "couldn't create" on "externs-test.pd" but I found:

 cyclone/tanh~
... couldn't create

going through examples that use [docfiles/glock~].

On "12_overlay_examples.pd" & 
"13_embedding_(takes_several_minutes_to_load!).pd" i get:


 <~
... couldn't create
 &&~
... couldn't create
 <~
... couldn't create
 &&~
... couldn't create
 <~
... couldn't create
 &&~
... couldn't create



2: Does Context seem to be working correctly? Try resizing it and shifting 
toggle floats to see.;


Resizing seems to work. I don't know what you mean with "shifting toggle floats 
to see".

Notes: when using "externs-test.pd" if I click on the *lower left toggle* i get:

0-crxyoff: no such object
0-roff: no such object
0-notsafe: no such object
0-roff2: no such object
0-crxyoff: no such object

But is not the case if I create a new patch and a new [context].

3: If the following objects have created correctly, can you call the helpfiles?


I can not open the help files.

Note: I have temporarily switched off my normal externals folder.

---

I can not open "00_first_time_tutorial.pd" it crashes Pd.






--

Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.

On 4/14/2018 9:10 AM, Liam Goodacre wrote:
I figured out what the difference was between mine and Alex's screenshots. In 
my case, the "custom search location" was also the folder that the patch was 
saved into. So it was loading an external relative to this, not the custom 
search folder.

I've uploaded a draft of Context with externals which I hope will work "out of 
the box". The idea is that if a user wants to use their own externals, they 
simply delete the relevant folders from the main Context folder, and then the 
patch goes back to searching for the externals in the regular places. This is 
based on the assumption that PD searches for externals in the PD folder BEFORE 
searching in Documents/PD/externals or anywhere else. This appears to be the 
case on my Linux and Windows machines, but can I count on it always working?

Lucas, thanks for pointing me towards the old Extended binaries for Zexy. I 
didn't realized that they existed, and it helps to keep the file size small. 
The Context folder currently has 6mb of binary externals (Linux, Windows & OS), 
which seems to me like an acceptable cost.

If anyone wants to test it, I'd really appreciate it, in case I've made a 
mistake. You can download the test branch here, then follow the instruction in 
the file "externs-test.pd".

https://github.com/LGoodacre/context-sequencer/tree/externs
[https://avatars2.githu

Re: [PD] CONTEXT V3.0.2 tests.

[Liam Goodacre]

Yeah, it was something to do with [msgfile] crashing when it was asked to read 
from the disk. Not worth pursuing anyway, since this is a completely depricated 
version of Zexy (how frustrating!) I just replaced it with [text] and the 
problem is solved. I also found that the same problem was occurring in another, 
much more important part of the patch, so I'm glad we spotted this now.

What other problems have you spotted? I'm eager for feedback!

From: Pd-list <pd-list-boun...@lists.iem.at> on behalf of IOhannes m zmoelnig 
<zmoel...@iem.at>
Sent: 16 April 2018 12:42
To: pd-list@lists.iem.at
Subject: Re: [PD] CONTEXT V3.0.2 tests.

On 2018-04-16 13:15, Liam Goodacre wrote:
> Ah, now I get the same behavior! It looks like it's something to do with 
> [msgfile], whose behavior must have changed between the old version of Zexy 
> that I'm using and the current one. Now that I can see it, I should be able 
> to fix it...

the only significant change in [msgfile] in the last few years, would be
this one:

> Author: IOhannes m zmölnig <zmoel...@users.sourceforge.net>
> Date:   Tue Oct 6 13:17:38 2015 +
>
>write to canvas-local directory
>
>in sync with [textfile].
>the previous use of canvas_makefilename() was for nuffing

could that be the problem?
(i haven't followed the actual problem)

fasdrm
IOhannes

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Re: [PD] CONTEXT V3.0.2 tests.

[Liam Goodacre]

Ah, now I get the same behavior! It looks like it's something to do with 
[msgfile], whose behavior must have changed between the old version of Zexy 
that I'm using and the current one. Now that I can see it, I should be able to 
fix it...

From: Lucas Cordiviola <lucard...@hotmail.com>
Sent: 16 April 2018 11:53
To: Liam Goodacre; PD list
Subject: Re: [PD] CONTEXT V3.0.2 tests.


Confirmed. I have the same behaviour on an updated win10 machine.



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On 4/16/2018 7:36 AM, Lucas Cordiviola wrote:
 Could you try closing PD, opening it again, then opening test-1, closing it, 
then opening it again?

This works OK both times.

 Then close PD and try the same thing with test-2. See if you can spot any 
patterns.

 This works only the first time.


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On 4/16/2018 7:30 AM, Lucas Cordiviola wrote:

Ok I'll try.


TBH I don't have much of a clue what is going wrong here.


It can be the case that is just this machine (win8.1 not receiving updates), I 
will try on a win10 with "updates" ASAP. I guess you are not having this issue 
on your windows and linux machines.



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On 4/16/2018 5:11 AM, Liam Goodacre wrote:
So Context relies on a share patch which loads with the first instance of 
Context that you create. It's mostly there just to store certain arrays, but it 
can sometimes cause confusing behavior like this. Could you try closing PD, 
opening it again, then opening test-1, closing it, then opening it again? Then 
close PD and try the same thing with test-2. See if you can spot any patterns.

TBH I don't have much of a clue what is going wrong here. The only thing I can 
think of is that it's the [textbox] object, as I don't use that very often, 
basically in this helpfile. Are other help and example files loading correctly?

From: Lucas Cordiviola <lucard...@hotmail.com><mailto:lucard...@hotmail.com>
Sent: 15 April 2018 11:52
To: Liam Goodacre; PD list
Subject: Re: [PD] CONTEXT V3.0.2 tests. (was: How to declare custom libraries 
in abstractions)


On 4/15/2018 5:53 AM, Liam Goodacre wrote:

I'm guessing that test-1.pd will open and the others won't.

Kind of strange:

I can open test-1 so then I try test-2 and it crashes.
So I reopen Pd and try test-2 and here it works. (What?)
test-3 always crashes.

win8.1:

Problem Event Name:APPCRASH
  Application Name:pd.com
  Application Version:0.0.0.0
  Application Timestamp:6310
  Fault Module Name:crtdll.dll
  Fault Module Version:4.0.1183.1
  Fault Module Timestamp:30c91e2d


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Re: [PD] CONTEXT V3.0.2 tests. (was: How to declare custom libraries in abstractions)

[Liam Goodacre]

So Context relies on a share patch which loads with the first instance of 
Context that you create. It's mostly there just to store certain arrays, but it 
can sometimes cause confusing behavior like this. Could you try closing PD, 
opening it again, then opening test-1, closing it, then opening it again? Then 
close PD and try the same thing with test-2. See if you can spot any patterns.

TBH I don't have much of a clue what is going wrong here. The only thing I can 
think of is that it's the [textbox] object, as I don't use that very often, 
basically in this helpfile. Are other help and example files loading correctly?

From: Lucas Cordiviola <lucard...@hotmail.com>
Sent: 15 April 2018 11:52
To: Liam Goodacre; PD list
Subject: Re: [PD] CONTEXT V3.0.2 tests. (was: How to declare custom libraries 
in abstractions)


On 4/15/2018 5:53 AM, Liam Goodacre wrote:

I'm guessing that test-1.pd will open and the others won't.

Kind of strange:

I can open test-1 so then I try test-2 and it crashes.
So I reopen Pd and try test-2 and here it works. (What?)
test-3 always crashes.

win8.1:

Problem Event Name:APPCRASH
  Application Name:pd.com
  Application Version:0.0.0.0
  Application Timestamp:6310
  Fault Module Name:crtdll.dll
  Fault Module Version:4.0.1183.1
  Fault Module Timestamp:30c91e2d


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Re: [PD] How to declare custom libraries in abstractions

[Liam Goodacre]

Thanks Alex, you've pretty much answered all my questions. I have a bit of 
confusion though, because for me, [declare] in 0.48 does seem to add custom 
search paths (see attached screenshot). Doesn't this contradict what you said?

As to whether I should do it or not, I have users telling me that I should and 
developers telling me that I shouldn't, which puts me in a bit of a bind. 
Ultimately, I'm worried that a complex install process will scare a lot of new 
users off, which is why I'm looking for a solution. I've given up on many 
computer programs before simply because I couldn't get them to work in the 
first 5 minutes; haven't you?

The previous thread from 2017 seemed to arrive at the conclusion that there was 
a compromise to be found by distributing two versions of Context, one with and 
one without externals. I've modified this a little in that I was planning to 
release one package with externals included and a simple way of disabling them. 
The reason for this is simply so that I can avoid the complication of handling 
two packages, but I'm willing to be talked back into the two-package solution 
if there are compelling reasons.

Now that you have clarified the difference between declaring via paths and via 
[declare], I have another idea. What if I do the following:

  1.  Go back to using [library/object] everywhere and [declare] nowhere (save 
for Zexy);
  2.  Include a "cyclone" and "zexy" etc. folder with the relevant objects in 
the main Context folder, not in a special "ctx_externals" folder.

This way, Context will find the local externals by default, meaning that the 
user doesn't have to bother with downloading them. The readme file then 
provides simple instructions that if the user doesn't want to use the local 
externals, s/he can simply delete the given folders. All of the external 
objects in the Context patch, which are given as [library/object], proceed to 
search for the relevant object in "PD documents". This seems about as simple as 
it ever could be. Or am I wrong?

Liam


From: Alexandre Torres Porres <por...@gmail.com>
Sent: 13 April 2018 15:43
To: Liam Goodacre
Cc: PD list
Subject: Re: [PD] How to declare custom libraries in abstractions

2018-04-13 8:21 GMT-03:00 Alexandre Torres Porres 
<por...@gmail.com<mailto:por...@gmail.com>>:


2018-04-13 4:10 GMT-03:00 Liam Goodacre 
<liamg...@hotmail.com<mailto:liamg...@hotmail.com>>:

 distributing externals along with an abstraction is bad form like you said, in 
my opinion

  1.  Assuming that there is something wrong with the method outlined above, 
what is the proper use of [declare] in this instance? [declare -lib 
ctx_externals/zexy -path ctx_externals/cyclone -path ctx_externals/else ...] 
seems to work for me here, but I know that the use of -path and -lib is 
changing, so I just want to be sure.

current behaviour of [declare -path] works for objects in paths related to the 
patch, so yeah, this works. And this won't change


So, when do you want to use "libname/external" and when should you just use 
"external"? I think this is important to mention and is related to this 
question. First, how should you use it? You need to have the parent folder 
where the external folders are included to be added to the search path. Since 
Pd 0.48, Pd creates a "Pd documents" folder for you and also an "externals" 
folder in there, and this folder is automatically added to the search paths 
(that is if you just agree to Pd's suggestions when opening the application for 
the first time). In macOS, for instance, this is ~/Documents/Pd/externals

So, for whatever libraries you include in that folder, for example, you can use 
the "libname/external" method and it will work. Cause it'll search inside 
~/Documents/Pd/externals for the "libname/" subfolder and then the external. 
Now, if you also add the "libname/" path, even though you already have
~/Documents/Pd/externals as a search path, what you have now is the option to 
not worry about using "libname".

But I like using "libname/external" because: 1) it makes it explicit where this 
object comes from. 2) It avoids possible nameclashes with other externals that 
have the same name and might be called eariler in the search priority. 3) It 
doesn't need [declare] in the patch.

Currently [declare] doesn't work if you want to call paths from user added 
paths anyway, so you can't use it if you want to call externals from there. But 
if https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/pull/205 is merged, then this 
changes, and [declare -path] will be able to include subfolders relative to 
user added paths. For me, this is a crucial feature, as it basically makes 
[declare] useless for me right now, when I'm including all my externals in  
~/Documents/Pd/externals - so I either have to use "libname/external" or add 
the 

[PD] How to declare custom libraries in abstractions

[Liam Goodacre]

Hi all

You might remember from last year that I wanted to distribute externals along 
with an abstraction library (Context) so that new users can download and get it 
working in as few clicks as possible, without having to download a bunch of 
extra libraries (see the thread: "[PD] repackaging externals on Deken"). This 
is in response to many users struggling with the installation process, and it 
would seem important if Context is every going to go up on Deken.

This week, I've finally gotten around to trying to implement this, but I'm 
getting hopelessly confused, since I don't have a good understanding of how 
[declare] works and it's function seems to be changing anyway. I've attempted 
to outline my questions as clearly as possible, and I would appreciate if 
people could reply to them individually. I'm not trying to be stubborn, it's 
just that I'm struggling with my understanding here.

CURRENT SITUATION:

  1.  Context relies heavily on externals, namely zexy, cyclone, else, iemguts, 
hcs, list-abs, iemmatrix, and flatgui.
  2.  I have everywhere called externals using the [library/object] method, ie. 
[cyclone/iter], avoiding the use of [declare], because I'm afraid of it. The 
only time I've use declare is with [declare -stdlib zexy]

OBJECTIVES:

  1.  I want all of Context's externals to be distributed and declared 
internally.
  2.  For efficiency, I want only those externals which are used in the folder, 
not the whole library (otherwise it takes up around 38mb).
  3.  For clarity, I want them organized by library in a special 
"ctx_externals" folder. So there will be one "ctx_externals/cyclone" folder 
containing only the cyclone externals I use, one "externals/else" folder, etc.

QUESTIONS:

  1.  The easiest way to achieve this would just be to declare them in the 
object names, ie. [ctx_externals/cyclone/iter]. What is wrong with doing it 
this way?
  2.  Assuming that there is something wrong with the method outlined above, 
what is the proper use of [declare] in this instance? [declare -lib 
ctx_externals/zexy -path ctx_externals/cyclone -path ctx_externals/else ...] 
seems to work for me here, but I know that the use of -path and -lib is 
changing, so I just want to be sure.
  3.  Again assuming that 1 is wrong, do I need to remove the "library/" from 
each of the objects in the patch after using [declare]? (Ie. so [cyclone/iter] 
becomes just [iter]). It seems to work with the path still specified, but I 
don't know if this is altering the behavior. Removing the paths in the objects 
would be a hassle, but I'll do it if there is a reason.
  4.  How many different versions of each external library do I need to provide 
to cover all possible uses? Windows, Linux & Mac = 3 versions. Do I need to 
also release one for 32bit and one for 64bit, = 6 versions?
  5.  Is it OK just to put all of these different versions in the same folder, 
so that "ctx_externals/cyclone" contains 3 x each external, one for each OS? Or 
will this create problems?

I expect that some of you will bring up the point that distributing externals 
along with an abstraction is bad form, as it might interfere with the user's 
own versions of the same externals. The solution we arrived at in the last 
thread was to let the user decide whether to have Context provide its own 
externals (basic), or whether to provide them manually (advanced). This is what 
I intend to achieve, which leads me to the next question:

6: If I replace  [declare -lib ctx_externals/zexy -path ctx_externals/cyclone 
-path ctx_externals/else ...] in the main Context file with [declare -lib zexy 
-path cyclone -path else ...], will it then abandon the repackaged externals 
and look instead for whatever externals the user has installed? If not this, 
then what use of [declare] will switch back to the standard behavior?

Thanks for bearing with me here,

Liam
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Re: [PD] Test if an argument is void

[Liam Goodacre]

Nice! I definitely wouldn't have thought of this.

From: Pd-list <pd-list-boun...@lists.iem.at> on behalf of IOhannes m zmoelnig 
<zmoel...@iem.at>
Sent: 09 April 2018 15:19
To: pd-list@lists.iem.at
Subject: Re: [PD] Test if an argument is void

On 2018-04-09 15:29, Liam Goodacre wrote:
> If you don't mind using externals, you can use [iemguts/canvasargs] or 
> [else/args]. I can't think of a way of doing this in Vanilla though. As you 
> say, no argument seems to be indistinguishable from 0.

for a given argument, it's possible. e.g.:
(it's also possible to count the number of arguments, but more complicated)

https://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2012-09/097880.html

(the code has to be copied verbatim into your abstraction and cannot be
wrapped into a helper-abstraction)


fgasdmr
IOhannes

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Re: [PD] Test if an argument is void

[Liam Goodacre]

If you don't mind using externals, you can use [iemguts/canvasargs] or 
[else/args]. I can't think of a way of doing this in Vanilla though. As you 
say, no argument seems to be indistinguishable from 0.

From: Pd-list  on behalf of abel.jer...@free.fr 

Sent: 09 April 2018 13:02
To: pd-list@lists.iem.at
Subject: [PD] Test if an argument is void

Hi all,

Does anyone find a way to test if an argument is void into an abstraction ? The 
default behavior is to consider it as a float "0", but it would be very helpful 
to distinguish a "0" and no argument.

Thanks.

---
Jérôme
http://jeromeabel.net

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[PD] message boxes and console errors

[Liam Goodacre]

Since message boxes have been receiving attention and might be updated in 0.49, 
I thought I'd bring up another request.

If a message box generates a "$2 out of range" error, you currently can't 
locate the source of that error using the Find Last Error feature. This can 
lead to headaches in trying to search for the responsible object, especially in 
larger patches. L2Ork seems to have fixed this issue along with the $0's.

I think I do say this enough (at least in my head) but one again, THANK YOU FOR 
PURE DATA!
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Re: [PD] Moving canvas dialog isnide abstraction doesn't refresh well.

[Liam Goodacre]

Hi Loïc

Th canvas only refreshes if it is open. To get around this problem, you can use 
a "menu-open" command to open the sub-window right before and "vis 0" right 
after to close. The whole thing would look something like this:

"menu-open, donecanvasdialog 1 1 -1 0 -1 1 1 120 40 10 $1, vis 0"

Liam

From: Pd-list  on behalf of Loïc Reboursiere 

Sent: 23 March 2018 09:31
To: pd-list@lists.iem.at
Subject: [PD] Moving canvas dialog isnide abstraction doesn't refresh well.

Hi list,

first post here !

I'm trying to script the position of the canvas dialog inside an abstraction 
but the graphics don't refresh at all.
The idea is to have a [vradio] object to control the position of the canvas so 
that it switches to different options inside the abstraction (like bpatcher 
offset message in Max). Is it the right way to do it (using donecanvasdialog 
message) or is there another one ?

Patches are attached. The one to launch is action-choice.pd

Thanks !

Loïc

--

http://www.medicationtime.net
http://soundcloud.com/MedicationTime
http://www.vimeo.com/user2896549
http://vimeo.com/user2896549/videos/all

http://www.numediart.org

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Re: [PD] reporting the dimensions of a symbol / float atom

[Liam Goodacre]

Thanks for the suggestion. I have considered this, but I really don't like the 
little triangle in the corner, and the space it takes up. Besides, I'm equally 
concerned with the symbol atom, for which there is no alternative object.

From: Pd-list <pd-list-boun...@lists.iem.at> on behalf of oliver 
<oli...@klingt.org>
Sent: 22 March 2018 09:40
To: pd-l...@mail.iem.at
Subject: Re: [PD] reporting the dimensions of a symbol / float atom

just a thought here:

what about using [number2] instead of PD's native number atom in a GOP ?

i was recently in a situation where i worked with my own objects on a
different platform (OSX) and the patches DID look a little different,
but my GOPs (which only use [number2] were consistent.

i know that also [number2] size depends upon the selected font
renderings, but i had the feeling it's a little more stable

best

oliver


Roman Haefeli wrote:
> On Mit, 2018-03-21 at 18:52 +, Liam Goodacre wrote:
>> It would certainly help me to have be able to query atom sizes.
>
> I see your point and the benefit of such a feature. Independent of
> that, I'd like to be able to count on consistent box sizes across
> platforms and future Pd versions.
>
>> BTW, we are talking about two different things here: font size and
>> atom size. What is the relationship between them? In 0.48.1, the atom
>> appears to have increased in height, suggesting that they are not
>> always proportional.
>
> Right. I was assuming those would be related, but my main concern is
> about box size, exactly because of fitting atoms into GOP areas.
>
> Roman
>
>
>
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--

/// http://pendler.klingt.org //
\\\ http://oliver.klingt.org  \\


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Re: [PD] cannot 'upgrade' old patch

[Liam Goodacre]

From: Pd-list  on behalf of Roman Haefeli 

Sent: 22 March 2018 07:36
To: pd-list@lists.iem.at
Subject: Re: [PD] cannot 'upgrade' old patch

On Don, 2018-03-22 at 07:44 +0100, ro...@dds.nl wrote:
> hi list,
>
> i have old patches made with Pdext 42.5.
> when opened with Vanilla 48.1 i get lots of uncreated objects (of
> course).
>
> some of them i'm not able to 'repair'.
> e.g. [symbol2list]
>
> i put in a [declare -stdpath -zexy -stdlib -zexy].

It should read:

[declare -stdpath zexy -stdlib zexy]

(without dashes before 'zexy').

> it's possible to create a new [symbol2list] object.
>
> after saving, closing pd, opening again,
> the new object is not created.
>
> what can i do to resolve this.

Let's hope the typo was the reason for this. If not, then this is odd.
I mean, if it works _before_ saving the patch, it is supposed to work
after re-loading. I'd run pd in verbose mode. You can add the startup
flag '-verbose' (without quotes) in your preferences. When loading
[symbol2list], check what it does and whether Pd is looking into the
right places.

Roman
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Re: [PD] reporting the dimensions of a symbol / float atom

[Liam Goodacre]

Thanks for the input, Roman. I followed the discussion bout font sizes, and I 
also appreciate the amount of work that people have put in to solving it. Are 
the font sizes in 0.48.1 considered to be stable? If so, maybe it's time for me 
to cash in and resize everything manually, but I am wary of doing this in case 
things change again...

From: Pd-list <pd-list-boun...@lists.iem.at> on behalf of Roman Haefeli 
<reduz...@gmail.com>
Sent: 21 March 2018 13:46
To: pd-list@lists.iem.at
Subject: Re: [PD] reporting the dimensions of a symbol / float atom

On Mit, 2018-03-21 at 13:08 +, Liam Goodacre wrote:
> The problem is that when I move from one system to another, many of
> my abstractions fail to display correctly, because the atoms fall
> outside of the GOP area. (See the attached image: the GOP area was
> set in 0.47, but it won't display in 0.48). The Context library uses
> a lot of tightly fitted GOPs (for better or worse), and I'm looking
> for a solution so that I can guarantee that they will display
> correctly on all systems. Even if the PD font width is standardized,
> there is always the chance that somebody loads PD with the -font-
> weight bold flags, which would throw it off again.
>
> An external object that reported the system standard dimensions would
> offer a solution, since you could then set the abstraction to resize
> itself according to the system.
>
> I'm also open to other solutions, if anyone can think of them.

I'm in the same boat. This is the single-most important culprit I
experience with non-consistent font sizes. I think Dan did a great deal
of work to harmonize font and box sizes across platforms.

My strategy has been to wait until things are corrected on the Pd side
instead of trying to work-around those issues myself. So, I hope I can
stick with this strategy, because working-around it is so much work.
Personally, I'd rather have people agree on the notion that this should
be addressed in Pd than people who establish their own ways to mitigate
the problem.

So, if you ask me, please don't use any reporting of sizes ;-)

Is this still an issue with Pd 0.48-1? I thought not, but I might need
to check again.


Roman
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Re: [PD] changing GOP size dynamically without dirty flag

[Liam Goodacre]

Another option is the "coords" message. In my mind, this is always preferable 
to "donecanvasdialog" because you don't need to dirty it, and because the 
syntax is slightly easier to remember. If you open the .pd file in a text 
editor, you'll find the "coords" term at the very bottom, and you can work it 
out from there.

From: Pd-list  on behalf of oliver 

Sent: 21 March 2018 13:57
To: pd-l...@mail.iem.at
Subject: Re: [PD] changing GOP size dynamically without dirty flag


>
> Is there a way to adjust the GOP size without marking the instance of
> the abstraction/patch dirty?
>

yes, add a "dirty 0" message to the GOP's namecanvas, like this:


put a [namecanvas YOURNAME] onto the patch's top level.


then send it a message like this:

[donecanvasdialog 1 -1 3 0 -1 1 1 100 100 10 10, dirty 0(
|
|
[send YOURNAME]



best

oliver

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Re: [PD] reporting the dimensions of a symbol / float atom

[Liam Goodacre]

The problem is that when I move from one system to another, many of my 
abstractions fail to display correctly, because the atoms fall outside of the 
GOP area. (See the attached image: the GOP area was set in 0.47, but it won't 
display in 0.48). The Context library uses a lot of tightly fitted GOPs (for 
better or worse), and I'm looking for a solution so that I can guarantee that 
they will display correctly on all systems. Even if the PD font width is 
standardized, there is always the chance that somebody loads PD with the 
-font-weight bold flags, which would throw it off again.

An external object that reported the system standard dimensions would offer a 
solution, since you could then set the abstraction to resize itself according 
to the system.

I'm also open to other solutions, if anyone can think of them.

From: Alexandre Torres Porres <por...@gmail.com>
Sent: 20 March 2018 19:43
To: Liam Goodacre
Cc: pd-l...@mail.iem.at
Subject: Re: [PD] reporting the dimensions of a symbol / float atom



2018-03-18 15:09 GMT-03:00 Liam Goodacre 
<liamg...@hotmail.com<mailto:liamg...@hotmail.com>>:
 it's just a matter of knowing which variable to call, right?

seems so, I guess we know that much :) but i don't get it, what do you need? 
Font size? That should be simple, and nice/useful cause you could work around 
you patches even if you change a patch's font size.
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[PD] reporting the dimensions of a symbol / float atom

[Liam Goodacre]

Hi all

I've been struggling with the font sizes changing from one release to another, 
as it throws off the sizing of atoms. I often use tightly fitted GOP's around a 
symbol or float atom, but everything made on 0.47 fails in 0.48 because the 
atom is slightly taller there.

I know that this has been discussed at length before, and I do not wish to 
re-open the issue for debate. Instead, I'm wondering if we could have an object 
that reports the dimensions of the atom in your system. So for instance, 
[bang(---[atomsize] would give you "8 15" if you were on 0.47 (8*15 pixels 
being the dimensions of a width-1 atom in 0.47 on Ubuntu) and "7 18" if you're 
on 0.48, etc. This would at least give you the information you need to 
dynamically resize GOPs to fit the system. It's not a perfect solution, but it 
would make things considerably more stable than they are now.

Alex Porres is willing to include such an object in his Else library if it's 
feasible, but unfortunately neither of us are familiar enough with the source 
code to know how to go about it. Can anybody help? To someone as naive as 
myself, it would seem like a pretty easy task. The dimensions must be defined 
somewhere, so it's just a matter of knowing which variable to call, right?

Liam
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Re: [PD] bigger inlet/outlet size in 0.48.1 ...

[Liam Goodacre]

I had noticed this too, and also find it mildly irritating.

I think that the oversized outlets existed on Windows before 0.48.

From: Pd-list  on behalf of José Rafael Subía 
Valdez 
Sent: 15 March 2018 14:25
To: oliver
Cc: pd-l...@mail.iem.at
Subject: Re: [PD] bigger inlet/outlet size in 0.48.1 ...

Hey Oliver, remember that you can also "stretch" objects, that might be helpful.

cheers

On Thu, Mar 15, 2018 at 2:22 PM, oliver 
> wrote:
 > hi,

this is on windows 7 / 64bit, PD 0.48.1



after updating from 0.48.0 to 0.48.1, the thickness of all object
and message inlets/outlets has increased by 1 pixel (see attached
image).

this may not sound like much, but when opening heavy patches it gets
very irritating on the eye.


how so? what do you mean?


well, like you can see on the attached .jpg, it's not that big a difference in 
a small patch like the [bang] helppatch.

but it makes a lot more "black bars" in any patch window now, which is ugly to 
watch and quite confusing when patches have lots of objects and connections 
(which they sometimes do, no matter how well tied up ...)

what's more: also the main windows font "courier" seems to look a little 
different than before (especially visible on bigger fontsizes like 16). which i 
wouldn't mind that much, but the bigger inlet sizes are hard on my eye.

in any case, i didn't find anything on the list concerning this issue, so:

has really nobody else experienced this ?
is this just happening on my machine ?
or is this a supposed to be a "new PD look" ?

as i said: this change was introduced in PD 0.48.1 (windows 7)

thanks for any clarifications


oliver

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--
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www.jrsv.net




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Re: [PD] text delete doesn't clear a line containing a comma

[Liam Goodacre]

[text] interprets commas as end-of-lines, so this would seem like normal 
behavior to me.

If you want to display a comma in a text file, you can use this unicode 
charater --> ‚ which won't break the line (assuming that it copies correctly 
through this email).

From: Pd-list  on behalf of Jack 
Sent: 10 March 2018 14:30
To: pd-list@lists.iem.at
Subject: Re: [PD] text delete doesn't clear a line containing a comma

Idem for [text size].
++

Jack



Le 10/03/2018 à 15:25, Jack a écrit :
> I forgot :
> This is on Pd version 0.48.1 and Ubuntu 17.10.
> A small patch is attached.
> ++
>
> Jack
>
>
>
> Le 10/03/2018 à 15:23, Jack a écrit :
>> If i load a text file containing commas with the 'read -c ...' message,
>> using [text delete] doesn't completely delete a line with comma but the
>> words before it (and the comma).
>> According to the help, it should delete the whole line although in Pd
>> commas are used to separate messages.
>>
>> Is it a bug or the help file should be updated ?
>> ++
>>
>> Jack
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [PD] how to change the cursor icon (tcl)

[Liam Goodacre]

Several months later, and I've worked out an enhancement on Federico's system 
for changing the cursor icon.

The one limitation with the file Federico uploaded was that you had to minimize 
the window (vis 0) after resetting the cursor, or else it would fail to flip 
the icon when you entered edit mode. I've managed to fix this by modifying the 
hexadecimal canvas symbol. [canvas_name] gives you a symbol that looks 
something like ".c" ; if you just remove the " .c " from the end, then you 
can change the cursor and still enjoy normal behavior in edit mode without 
having to minimize the window.

Just posting this for the record, in case it's useful to anybody.

From: Federico Camara Halac <camaraf...@gmail.com>
Sent: 26 September 2017 21:21
To: Liam Goodacre; Pd-List
Subject: Re: [PD] how to change the cursor icon (tcl)

Hi Liam (back to the list now ;)

You can trigger the cursor change from a subpatch or abstraction, it doesn't 
matter, as long as you are in the same pd instance and the canvas_name symbol 
for the target is visible.

I attached a patch where this is working from inside an abstraction with a 
metro (needs hcs).

 I don't know of any other way to change the cursor type other than sysgui and 
configure -cursor. Also I don't know what you mean by pdsend finished. I guess 
in the end this might be system dependent and probably a tcl version thing that 
I simply don't know ;) all my knowledge here comes from hacking through this 
amazing code

either I don't understand your problem or itseems to be working as far as i can 
see.

cheers

fd


On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 3:28 PM, Liam Goodacre 
<liamg...@hotmail.com<mailto:liamg...@hotmail.com>> wrote:
Yeah those are the kinds of problems that I've been facing. Ultimately, I want 
to trigger the change from a hidden canvas, ie. inside a canvas. I'm also 
finding that it seems to work only if triggered by a "click" (of a bang or 
message box). Trying to automate the process, ie. with a metro, mysteriously 
fails. (I think this is something to do with the "pdsend finished" message I 
mentioned previously).

Is there any way around these problems, or is this a lost cause?

From: Federico Camara Halac <camaraf...@gmail.com<mailto:camaraf...@gmail.com>>
Sent: 26 September 2017 19:46
To: Liam Goodacre
Subject: Re: [PD] how to change the cursor icon (tcl)

Hi Liam, using hcs, I imagine you can use something like this, but it doesn't 
seem to work all the time. The canvas needs to be visible. Moving the mouse in 
an out of the canvas triggers the new cursor on mac at least.

[bang(
|
[canvas_name]  (  the target canvas )
|
[$1 configure -cursor hand((or whatever cursor 
name<https://www.tcl.tk/man/tcl8.4/TkCmd/cursors.htm>)
|
[sys_gui]

On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 1:33 PM, Liam Goodacre 
<liamg...@hotmail.com<mailto:liamg...@hotmail.com>> wrote:

I'm looking for a reliable way to change the cursor icon, ie. from an arrow to 
dot or something else.


The [cursor] object in the hcs library does just this, but it gives a nasty tcl 
error when triggered inside an abstraction. I don't imagine that this library 
will be updated any time soon, so I've been looking for alternatives.


There ought to be a raw tcl messages which can be sent to [sys_gui] (also hcs 
library). I've found one which is promising:


set ::cursor_runmode_nothing "left_side"


But I'm running into difficulties with this also, as it seems to expect a 
"pdsend xxx finished" message, where xxx is some hexadecimal that I can't work 
out.


Does anybody know how to make this work?


Liam

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--
http://fdch.github.io/tv



--
http://fdch.github.io/tv
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Re: [PD] sensing whether a window is active

[Liam Goodacre]

You're the greatest, Alex! If it works, this will fix a long standing bug in 
Context, and you'll be a hero.

If you're making a new object, you might want to consider that the Cyclone 
object reports 0 ("inactive") whenever you right click on the patch. I don't 
know if this is a bug, but it would seem more desirable to me if the object 
ignored right clicks and only reported whether or not the window is active.

From: Pd-list  on behalf of Alexandre Torres 
Porres 
Sent: 05 February 2018 14:57
To: Ingo
Cc: PD list
Subject: Re: [PD] sensing whether a window is active

2018-02-05 9:32 GMT-02:00 Ingo >:

I'd love to find an alternative as well.

Hi, I offered Liam to include an object that does this kind of thing in my new 
library "else".

And... I'm doing it anyway now ;)

cheers
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[PD] sensing whether a window is active

[Liam Goodacre]

Hi all

Is there a way to sense whether a parent-level window is active? By "active" I 
mean that the window is in focus with the title bar highlighted.

[cyclone/active] is able to sense whether the current window is active, but I 
specifically need to know if the parent (grandparent, etc) window is active.

Solutions involving externals are welcome.
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Re: [PD] A "set" method for [value]

[Liam Goodacre]

Oh wow, thanks Dan! I didn't think it would be this easy. I hope the pull 
request gets accepted. "No method for 'set' " is the error message I get in 
0.47, which seems harmless enough.

BTW, I've been meaning to say this for a while: the new readme file is great. 
It's much more helpful than before, and I really appreciate the work you put 
into it (and so many other things).

From: Dan Wilcox <danomat...@gmail.com>
Sent: 29 October 2017 10:20
To: Liam Goodacre
Cc: Pd-List
Subject: Re: [PD] A "set" method for [value]

Happy Halloween: https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/pull/241

Since [value] only works with floats (and not symbols), I think a set message 
shouldn't break anything and (helpfully) result in "got symbol but expected 
float" errors in earlier versions of Pd as opposed to non connections with a 
missing second inlet.

On Oct 29, 2017, at 9:07 AM, 
pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at<mailto:pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at> wrote:

I was thinking that it could be done through the main inlet using a "set" 
message, just like the tabread and tabwrite objects. But a second inlet might 
be good also. What could go wrong?


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika<http://twitter.com/danomatika>
danomatika.com<http://danomatika.com>
robotcowboy.com<http://robotcowboy.com>



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Re: [PD] A "set" method for [value]

[Liam Goodacre]

I was thinking that it could be done through the main inlet using a "set" 
message, just like the tabread and tabwrite objects. But a second inlet might 
be good also. What could go wrong?




From: Alexandre Torres Porres <por...@gmail.com>
Sent: 29 October 2017 05:19
To: Liam Goodacre
Cc: PD list
Subject: Re: [PD] A "set" method for [value]

I always find additions to vanilla useful :)

maybe a design like [send], if it has no argument, then you have a 2nd inlet 
where you can set it

I suspect the problem sometimes is not being hard or easy to implement, but 
getting the design right and sure you're doing a nice thing.

cheers

2017-10-29 2:35 GMT-02:00 Liam Goodacre 
<liamg...@hotmail.com<mailto:liamg...@hotmail.com>>:
You know what would be a really useful feature? A "set" method for [value], so 
that you can redefine which [value] you're tuned into, like the right inlet on 
the [array] objects.

Would other people use this? It seems to me that it would be easily 
implementable and would have no effect on backwards compatibility.

Liam

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[PD] data structures arrays and Control / Shift keys

[Liam Goodacre]

Playing around with data-structures today, I discovered some unexpected 
features. It seems that the Control and Shift keys change the behavior of how 
the mouse interacts with data structure arrays. I'm not sure I fully understand 
it yet, but from what I can work out:

1. Holding down the Shift key and clicking on a point moves that point and 
every further point on the same array.
2. Holding down the Control key and clicking on a point creates a new point in 
that array.

For an example, go to 4.data.structures --> 11.array.controls.pd. Try clicking 
on the red data structure at the top of the "data11" sub-window with the 
Control and Shift keys pressed.

Is this behavior documented anywhere? I'd like to get a better handle on it, as 
it might prove useful.

Liam
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Re: [PD] how to change the cursor icon (tcl)

[Liam Goodacre]

Someone had too much fun with these...

I propose changing the default PD cursor to "pirate".

From: Dan Wilcox <danomat...@gmail.com>
Sent: 27 September 2017 09:16
To: Federico Camara Halac; Liam Goodacre
Cc: Pd-List
Subject: Re: [PD] how to change the cursor icon (tcl)

As Pd uses Tk for it's guis, check the available Tk cursor names: 
http://www.tcl.tk/man/tcl8.5/TkCmd/cursors.htm

There are a few that are system dependent.

On Sep 26, 2017, at 10:21 PM, 
pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at<mailto:pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at> wrote:

Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2017 16:21:42 -0400
From: Federico Camara Halac <camaraf...@gmail.com<mailto:camaraf...@gmail.com>>
To: Liam Goodacre <liamg...@hotmail.com<mailto:liamg...@hotmail.com>>, Pd-List
<pd-list@lists.iem.at<mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>>
Subject: Re: [PD] how to change the cursor icon (tcl)

I don't know of any other way to change the cursor type other than sysgui
and *configure -cursor*. Also I don't know what you mean by pdsend
finished. I guess in the end this might be system dependent and probably a
tcl version thing that I simply don't know ;) all my knowledge here comes
from hacking through this amazing code


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika<http://twitter.com/danomatika>
danomatika.com<http://danomatika.com>
robotcowboy.com<http://robotcowboy.com>



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[PD] how to change the cursor icon (tcl)

[Liam Goodacre]

I'm looking for a reliable way to change the cursor icon, ie. from an arrow to 
dot or something else.


The [cursor] object in the hcs library does just this, but it gives a nasty tcl 
error when triggered inside an abstraction. I don't imagine that this library 
will be updated any time soon, so I've been looking for alternatives.


There ought to be a raw tcl messages which can be sent to [sys_gui] (also hcs 
library). I've found one which is promising:


set ::cursor_runmode_nothing "left_side"


But I'm running into difficulties with this also, as it seems to expect a 
"pdsend xxx finished" message, where xxx is some hexadecimal that I can't work 
out.


Does anybody know how to make this work?


Liam
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Re: [PD] trim symbols?

[Liam Goodacre]

[list trim] works for symbols too! A little known secret.

From: Pd-list  on behalf of Hrvoje Radnic via 
Pd-list 
Sent: 23 September 2017 13:33
To: Pd-List
Subject: [PD] trim symbols?

Hi!

I would like to display the name of the .wav file loaded from the HDD (using 
[openpanel]), but, without a full path and without the file extension. For 
example, [openpanel] outputs "symbol 
C:/Users/Hrvoje/Desktop/my_patches/SAMP_SEQ/samples/BD.wav" and I just want 
"BD" to be displayed. Is it possible in pd vanilla? Thank you for the help!
Cheers!

Hrvoje Radnic
http://soundcloud.com/sumovi-protiv-valova
00385(0)915225162
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Re: [PD] going from signals to events?

[Liam Goodacre]

[threshold~] is a useful object, although its syntax is a bit confusing. 
Cyclone's [edge~] is probably more reliable, if you don't mind using externals.

From: Pd-list  on behalf of Peter P. 

Sent: 03 September 2017 15:47
To: pd-list@lists.iem.at
Subject: Re: [PD] going from signals to events?

* Ali Momeni  [2017-09-03 16:37]:
> hello friends,
>
> what are your favorite objects for going from signals to events?
>
> specifically, i'd like to make a sample accurate / audio-driven sequencer.
> I'm looking for something like max's "seq~" object, which outputs events
> when a phasor input in its inlet crosses various thresholds.
>
> Any ideas?
[max~] and [min~] perhaps.

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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] pd 0.48-0test1 released

[Liam Goodacre]

In Windows 10, I'm finding that the search paths won't save. However, there are 
also some new saving options for preferences which I don't understand. Could 
you go over what has changed here?



From: Pd-list  on behalf of Miller Puckette 

Sent: 15 July 2017 00:34
To: pd-annou...@iem.at
Subject: [PD] [PD-announce] pd 0.48-0test1 released

To Pd-announce:

The first test version of Pd 0.48 (source, adn compiled versions for
MacOS and Windows) is available at:

http://msp.ucsd.edu/software.htm
Software by Miller Puckette
msp.ucsd.edu
Software by Miller Puckette. See also http://puredata.info/ for a 
community-maintained website with pointers to many related resources: add-ons, 
extensions, other ...




or (source code only) via github:

https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data
[https://avatars1.githubusercontent.com/u/10228017?v=3=400]

GitHub - pure-data/pure-data: Pure Data - tracking Miller 
...
github.com
pure-data - Pure Data - tracking Miller's SourceForge git repository (also used 
by libpd)




cheers
Miller

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Re: [PD] should I use pddp/link in help patches?

[Liam Goodacre]

Hi Roman


Context, the system I'm documenting, is far too big to be explained in a single 
help-patch, so I want the 'context-help.pd' file to function more like a Table 
of Contents for the rest of the documentation (plus a few quick examples). It 
would be nice if the TOC could link to other files.


-Liam



From: Pd-list <pd-list-boun...@lists.iem.at> on behalf of Roman Haefeli 
<reduz...@gmail.com>
Sent: 02 June 2017 11:03
To: pd-list@lists.iem.at
Subject: Re: [PD] should I use pddp/link in help patches?

On Fre, 2017-06-02 at 09:45 +, Liam Goodacre wrote:
> Hi José
>
> This will only work with a pre-loaded abstraction or subpatch. I'm
> talking about opening a new file that isn't already loaded.
>
> You can open files like this:
>
> [; pd open file.pd my/directory(
>
> but it will only work with absolute, not relative directory paths.

It works with relative paths, too, but relative to Pd's start locaction
and not relative to calling patch (which basically boils down to
absolute in practice).


Why not simply create the object/abstraction, so that you just right-
click -> help when you want to follow the 'link'? It's how many help-
patches, including the ones of Pd, reference other objects.

Roman



> From: José de Abreu <abreubace...@gmail.com>
> Sent: 02 June 2017 10:21
> To: Liam Goodacre; PD list
> Subject: Re: [PD] should I use pddp/link in help patches?
>
> Maybe
> |; pd-nameOfSubpatch vis 1(
>
> Em Sex, 2 de jun de 2017 03:03, Liam Goodacre <liamg...@hotmail.com>
> escreveu:
> > The [link] object is great for linking between help files, but I
> > don't know how many people use it now that Extended has gone. By
> > way of a survey, how many people have this external installed
> > already? Seems like it will just be a nuisance if people have to
> > download it just to read a help patch, but on the other hand it's a
> > shame to give up on it since it's such a useful tool.
> >
> > Assuming that it's not widely used any more, are there any other
> > ways of opening a relative path from within PD?
> > ___
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Re: [PD] should I use pddp/link in help patches?

[Liam Goodacre]

Hi José


This will only work with a pre-loaded abstraction or subpatch. I'm talking 
about opening a new file that isn't already loaded.


You can open files like this:


[; pd open file.pd my/directory(


but it will only work with absolute, not relative directory paths.




From: José de Abreu <abreubace...@gmail.com>
Sent: 02 June 2017 10:21
To: Liam Goodacre; PD list
Subject: Re: [PD] should I use pddp/link in help patches?


Maybe

|; pd-nameOfSubpatch vis 1(

Em Sex, 2 de jun de 2017 03:03, Liam Goodacre 
<liamg...@hotmail.com<mailto:liamg...@hotmail.com>> escreveu:

The [link] object is great for linking between help files, but I don't know how 
many people use it now that Extended has gone. By way of a survey, how many 
people have this external installed already? Seems like it will just be a 
nuisance if people have to download it just to read a help patch, but on the 
other hand it's a shame to give up on it since it's such a useful tool.


Assuming that it's not widely used any more, are there any other ways of 
opening a relative path from within PD?

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[PD] should I use pddp/link in help patches?

[Liam Goodacre]

The [link] object is great for linking between help files, but I don't know how 
many people use it now that Extended has gone. By way of a survey, how many 
people have this external installed already? Seems like it will just be a 
nuisance if people have to download it just to read a help patch, but on the 
other hand it's a shame to give up on it since it's such a useful tool.


Assuming that it's not widely used any more, are there any other ways of 
opening a relative path from within PD?
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[PD] [PD-announce] Context sequencer, beta release and call for participation

[Liam Goodacre]

Dear PD community


I am happy to announce the beta release of Context, a powerful new sequencer 
for PD. Context is a modular sequencer that re-imagines musical compositions as 
a networks. It combines traditional step sequencing and timeline playback with 
non-linear and algorithmic paradigms, all in a small but advanced GUI.


Unlike most other sequencing software, Context is not an environment. It is a 
single abstraction which may be replicated and interconnected to create an 
environment in the form of a network. There are literally endless possibilities 
in creating Context networks, and the user has a great deal of control over how 
their composition will function.


>From a technical perspective, Context features a lot of things that you don't 
>often see in PD, such as click + drag canvas resizing, dynamic menus, 
>embeddable timelines, and fully automatic state saving. It also boasts its own 
>language, parsed entirely within PD.


Context is work in progress--there are still lots of bugs in the software and 
lots of holes in the documentation. However, I have gotten it to a place where 
I feel it is coherent enough for others to use it, and where it would benefit 
from wider feedback. I am especially looking for people who can help me with 
proof reading and bug tracking. Please let me know if you want to join the 
team! Even if you can't commit to much, pointing out typos or bits of the 
documentation that are confusing will be very helpful to me.


Some notes on the documentation: I have been putting 90% of my efforts recently 
into writing the manual, and only 9% into writing the .pd help files (the 
remaining 1% being sleep). The help files are pretty, but  the information in 
them is not very useful. This will be corrected as soon as I have more time and 
better perspective. In the mean time, please don't be put off by the confusing 
help files, and treat the manual as the main resource.


Context is available now at 
https://github.com/LGoodacre/context-sequencer.<https://github.com/LGoodacre/context-sequencer>


A few other links:


* The debut performance of Context at PDCon16~: 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PL6f_f6nYVx1f1TdAa58418kk5K9bWJ7pm=poWyBDacQl0


<https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PL6f_f6nYVx1f1TdAa58418kk5K9bWJ7pm=poWyBDacQl0>

* An explanation of this performance: 
http://newblankets.org/liam_context/context-patch.webm


<http://newblankets.org/liam_context/context-patch.webm>

* A small demo video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_eLOGA7Ado


* My paper from PDCon16~: 
https://contextsequencer.files.wordpress.com/2016/11/goodacre-context.pdf


<https://contextsequencer.files.wordpress.com/2016/11/goodacre-context.pdf>

Finally, I should say that this project has been my blood sweat and tears for 
the past 18 months, and it would mean a great deal to me to see other people 
using it. Please share your patches with me! And also share your questions--I 
will always be happy to respond.


I would like to thank the PD community for their support and inspiration, in 
particular Joe Deken and the organizers of PDCon16.


Regards,


Liam Goodacre
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Re: [PD] Weird [cnv] object error-bug

[Liam Goodacre]

Or you can use ASCII code 160, the non-breaking space, which looks like a space 
but acts like a symbol. Copy it from between the speech marks and paste it into 
a label: " ". Works fine on all platforms.



From: Pd-list  on behalf of IOhannes m zmoelnig 

Sent: 11 April 2017 09:05
To: PD list
Subject: Re: [PD] Weird [cnv] object error-bug

On 2017-04-11 09:31, José Rafael Subía Valdez wrote:
> Hello Liam,
>
> no. it wasn't created in l2ork, it is all vanilla,
>
> Hello Ico,
>
> yes it has blank spaces, that is interesting, I will try without, although
> it is a partial bug then, because it does work kinda until I wanna
> modify the properties in the main patch

it's a known issue.
the simplest workaround is to set the label to something without spaces
programmatically (e.g. use [label foo() before entering the properties.

the simplest fix for the problem would be to just forbid labels with spaces.

gfmasdr
IOhannes


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[PD] Ikutaro Kakehashi, founder or Roland & inventor of 808, RIP

[Liam Goodacre]

http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-39471567



I've always loved the story of the 808. It was a commercial failure when it was 
released in 1980, which was criticized for its poor sound and almost bankrupted 
the corporation. Then a few years later, hip-hop and house producers started 
buying them second hand because they were cheap and using them entirely new 
ways. Roland defined the sound of a generation "by accident", as it were.


Ikutaro Kakehashi, your vision and your achievements will not be forgotten.



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Re: [PD] some feature requests for the [text] object

[Liam Goodacre]

As a recent thread pointed out, [text search] is incapable of finding more than 
one instance of a matching line of text--it will only ever find the first 
match.  Here's a simple suggestion for expanding its capabilities so that you 
can search for multiple instances.



Remembering that numbered arguments in [text search] let you search through 
specific fields, I propose that the argument -1 should let you search the line 
number. For instance, if you search "4 my search text" into [text search txt > 
-1], it will search for instances of "my search text" after the 4th line. Since 
[text search] gives a line number, you could easily rig this up so it searches 
recursively for the first instance, then the second, etc.


Voila, a method of using [text search] to search a whole text file, without 
breaking backwards compatibility. Is there any chance that this could be 
implemented in 0.48?


____
From: Liam Goodacre <liamg...@hotmail.com>
Sent: 02 January 2017 16:55
To: PD list
Subject: some feature requests for the [text] object


Since 0.48 is coming up, I thought I would bring up some requests I have for 
the text family of objects. Some of these I brought up at the conference and 
some of them have only occurred to me since then. There are a lot of text 
storage objects out there and some of them still do things which can't be done 
in Vanilla. But IMO the implementation of the [text] is so successful that it 
deserves a few more features.


1. [text define] should send out a bang when the text window is saved. I 
mentioned this in a recent post. As it stands, there is no way of sensing when 
the text has been manually edited. It would be very useful to have this 
information if you ie. wanted to send the text to a list. A bang to the left 
outlet, or a new right outlet, or even a special receive channel would all work 
perfectly well here (ie. [receive mytext] gets a bang when [text define mytext] 
is edited).


2. A way to append text to the end of a line. [text set] has the third inlet to 
determine the field number on a given line, but it won't let you append text 
beyond the given line length. Is there a reason for this? Compare with "add2" 
from [textfile]. It seems to me that there should be a way of increasing a line 
indefinitely.


3. [text tolist] and [text fromlist] should accept customs separators. As it 
stands, the only accepted separator is \; , which is very awkward to work with 
from inside the patch. It would be great if both objects had an optional 
argument which specified the separator, so ie. [text tolist mytext &] would 
create list "list item 1 & item 2 & item 3 &", and [text fromlist mytext &] 
would accept the same list. Of course, leaving the argument blank would give 
the current \; separator.


3.1 I would also propose that we consider an option for specifying no separator 
for [text tolist], ie. the whole file comes out as one big list. This would 
break the symmetry with [text fromlist], but would still be useful in some 
circumstances.


4. A "flush" message to [text get] outputs each line of text iteratively, all 
at once. This of course can be done with [until], but I would love it if it was 
possible in one shot.


5. A flag on the read command that interprets commas as symbols, not line ends. 
ie. "read -a text-with-commas.txt". This would be useful when using [text] to 
read and print plain English files, ie. for help messages and such. Right now 
I'm having to write a whole lot of instructions without using commas. It's an 
interesting creative exercise, but something I'd rather avoid! [msgfile] can 
read commas correctly, so zexy has the upper hand here.



I hope that these are useful suggestions, and that some of them can be 
implemented without difficulty.


Liam
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Re: [PD] deleted startup preference re-appears after 3 days

[Liam Goodacre]

I have similar problems with the startup menu, also on Windows 10, but with an 
installed version. Every so often, the startup libraries list mysteriously 
transports itself to the startup flags box, and I have to put it back manually.



From: Pd-list  on behalf of ro...@dds.nl 

Sent: 22 March 2017 18:05
To: Pd list
Subject: [PD] deleted startup preference re-appears after 3 days

Pd-0.47.1 on Windows 10, not 'installed', but using zip-version.

i delete the startup preference of loading Gem.
this holds for 3 days using Pd every day on and off.
then Gem is back in the preferences.
it's a persistent behavior.

a bug in Pd? or some strange periodic event in Windows?

rolf

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Re: [PD] Fastest way to find lines in text file

[Liam Goodacre]

You can also use [text search], although t's not so easy to find more than the 
first instance. If you don't mind taking a extra step, you could give each line 
a third term, which is the line number. Then you can use the "> 3" argument for 
[text search] to find matches s



From: Pd-list  on behalf of Jack 
Sent: 21 March 2017 18:14
To: pd-list@lists.iem.at
Subject: [PD] Fastest way to find lines in text file

Hello,

I need to find every lines of a textfile containing a word.
The textfile has 2.539.592 lines.
Now, i am using [msgfile] from zexy because i can find a line, skip a
line and find again ... until the end of the textfile.
But, i am wondering if there is an other object (in an other library)
faster, specialized in this work ?
Thanx.
++

Jack


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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] MUME 2017 - EXTENDED DEADLINE: MARCH 19, 2017

[Liam Goodacre]

Hi Kıvanç

I am happy to see this deadline extended asian intend to apply but only found 
out about it next week.

Can I ask if the organizers are able to help pay the air fares of workshop 
organizers, or is there any other form of compensation? I don't see anything 
listed about this on the website so I thought I'd ask.

From: Pd-list  on behalf of Kıvanç Tatar 

Sent: 11 March 2017 00:42:48
Subject: [PD] [PD-announce] MUME 2017 - EXTENDED DEADLINE: MARCH 19, 2017


===

MUME 2017 - EXTENDED DEADLINE: MARCH 19, 2017

===


5th International Workshop on Musical Metacreation

http://musicalmetacreation.org

June 19-20, 2017, Georgia Tech, Atlanta, USA.


MUME 2017 is to be held at Georgia Institute of Technology in conjunction with 
the Eighth International Conference on Computational Creativity, ICCC 2017.

http://computationalcreativity.net/iccc2017/


=== Important Dates ===

Workshop submission deadline: March 10, 2017  EXTENDED DEADLINE MARCH 19, 2017

Notification date: April 20th, 2017

Camera-ready version: April 28th, 2017

Workshop dates: June 19-20, 2017

==


Topics

===

We encourage paper and demo submissions on MUME-related topics, including the 
following:

-- Models, Representation and Algorithms for MUME

-- Systems and Applications of MUME

-- Evaluation of MUME


Submission Format and Requirements

=

Please make submissions via the EasyChair system at:

https://easychair.org/conferences/?conf=mume2017


Workshop Organizers

===


Pr. Philippe Pasquier (Workshop Chair)

School of Interactive Arts and Technology (SIAT)

Simon Fraser University, Canada

http://metacreation.net/

https://www.kadenze.com/programs/generative-art-and-computational-creativity


Pr. Arne Eigenfeldt

School for the Contemporary Arts

Simon Fraser University, Canada


Dr. Oliver Bown

Design Lab, Faculty of Architecture, Design and Planning

The University of Sydney, Australia


Kıvanç Tatar

School of Interactive Arts and Technology,

Simon Fraser University, Vancouver, Canada.

--

http://musicalmetacreation.org


--
Kıvanç Tatar
--
PhD Student
Interactive Arts and Technology
Simon Fraser University, Vancouver, Canada
Email: kivancta...@gmail.com
Website: https://kivanctatar.wordpress.com/
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Re: [PD] More font problems

[Liam Goodacre]

> maybe you the installed font doesn't provide a regular font weight
> (unlikely, but possible).

This does seem possible. The OS is very light with just a couple of system 
fonts installed.

So the solution would be to load a custom font?


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[PD] More font problems

[Liam Goodacre]

I'm on a clean installation of 0.47.1 on Puppy Linux (Slacko), and I'm trying 
to get the font weight to "normal" instead of bold. The -font-weight flag 
doesn't seem to help.


When I run PD I get the following:



Fontconfig warning: "/etc/fonts/conf.d-user.conf", line 14: reading 
configurations from ~/.fonts.conf is deprecated.



The contents of /etc/fonts/conf.d-user.conf are:






 
 fontconfig/conf.d
 fontconfig/fonts.conf
 
 ~/.fonts.conf.d
 ~/.fonts.conf


I seem to remember that there's some way of editing this file that fixes it, 
but I can't find it. Can anyone help?

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Re: [PD] un-routable output from [text get]

[Liam Goodacre]

Thanks Roman and Antoine--looks like you both go the answer at the same time!


This explanation makes sense, however I am using non ASCII characters in the 
textfile (not the one attached, but the one I'm working on), so I guess that I 
need the BOM to stay there. I've rigged up a system which will split the dead 
characters off beginning of the first term, so it's working for now.

Would this be considered normal behavior for PD, or should I file a bug report?


From: Antoine Rousseau <anto...@metalu.net>
Sent: 07 February 2017 08:11
To: Liam Goodacre
Cc: PD list
Subject: Re: [PD] un-routable output from [text get]

Your text file has been UTF8 encoded, and starts with a "byte order mark" (BOM) 
{0xEF 0xBB 0xBF}, which then is rejected by [route].

see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byte_order_mark#UTF-8 :
Byte order mark - Wikipedia<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byte_order_mark#UTF-8>
en.wikipedia.org
The byte order mark (BOM) is a Unicode character, U+FEFF BYTE ORDER MARK (BOM), 
whose appearance as a magic number at the start of a text stream can signal 
several ...



The UTF-8<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UTF-8> representation of the BOM is the 
byte sequence 0xEF,0xBB,0xBF. A text editor or web browser misinterpreting the 
text as ISO-8859-1<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO-8859-1> or 
CP1252<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CP1252> will display the characters  
for this.



Antoine Rousseau
  http://www.metalu.net<http://metalu.net> __ 
http://www.metaluachahuter.com/<http://www.metaluachahuter.com/compagnies/al1-ant1/>


2017-02-07 8:34 GMT+01:00 Liam Goodacre 
<liamg...@hotmail.com<mailto:liamg...@hotmail.com>>:

I'm getting some strange behavior when reading a .txt file with [text define], 
where the output from [text get] isn't routeable like a normal list. See the 
attached file for an example. Do other users experience the same thing?


[text fromsymbol] reveals that there are some extended ASCII  characters 
junking around in front of the problematic term. Is PD accidentally reading 
some meta-data from the text file?


Currently, it only seems to be happening on the first line of the file. I think 
I remember having the same problems throughout a textfile, although I can't 
replicate this now.


Any suggestions?

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[PD] [relay] bug (zexy library)

[Liam Goodacre]

I've noticed that PD crashes abruptly when using [relay] in the following way:


[1 (

|

[relay 1] <---or any float

|

[print] <---or any object




I'm guessing that it's a problem with interpreting data types. [relay] usually 
outputs lists, but in this case it ought to be a float.


I'm using zexy 2.2.6.
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Re: [PD] repackaging externals on Deken

[Liam Goodacre]

Thanks Katja. I tried renaming an external and indeed it does not work!What 
would be involved in forking an external and would this process be accessible 
to someone with no coding experience?


Also, can you elaborate on your second-last paragraph? I don't follow this.



From: katja <katjavet...@gmail.com>
Sent: 21 January 2017 10:50
To: Liam Goodacre
Cc: PD list
Subject: Re: [PD] repackaging externals on Deken

Liam,

Choosing a unique name for an external is indeed the best warranty to avoid 
conflicts. Not only a future release of a dependency has the potential to break 
your patch. An old release with a bug or missing feature can do that too! It 
seems there's no way to force Pd loading the executable that sits in your 
project tree (I would be very happy if someone can prove me wrong).

So if you're concerned about versions of externals breaking your patch, you 
could preventively fork them under a different and very specific name. Like 
'contxt_demux', 'contxt_initbang'. I won't advise against it because the issue 
of name clash in pd is serious enough to consider all strategies, but be aware 
that forking is a bit more involved than simply renaming an existing binary 
(which won't do the trick as IOhannes has already mentioned).

In either case (modified class names or not) a redistribution of GPL licensed 
software should include the sources, and when you redistribute a subset you 
need a customized build system.

Note that I'm not advertising to redistribute, just detailing the consequences. 
I learn from this discussion too.

Katja



On Fri, Jan 20, 2017 at 5:22 PM, Liam Goodacre 
<liamg...@hotmail.com<mailto:liamg...@hotmail.com>> wrote:

Dear all:


Thanks for the detailed responses. My main interest here is, as Katja 
mentioned, the desire for a one-click-buy option (minus the "buy"). A secondary 
concern is that some future release of an external will change somehow break 
the patch, although this doesn't seem likely, given how slowly externals tend 
to move and the general commitment to backwards compatibility.


I like Fred's idea of distributing two packages, one with- and one without 
externals*. However, I take Katja's point seriously that forcing two versions 
of the same file on the same disk could become problematic. A quick and dirty 
solution to this might be to rename all the external files that are uploaded in 
the Context deken package (ie. "demux.pd_linux" --> "demux2.pd_linux"). This 
would solve the problem as far as I can see, although it seems somehow wrong. 
What are people's thoughts about this?


Two other points that are worth mentioning:


1. Context depends on [initbang] from iemguts 0.2.1. Last time I checked, the 
deken package for this was only available for Windows, not Linux or Mac.


2. I haven't used the [declare] object at all, given the warning in the help 
file against using it in abstractions. Instead, each external is declared in 
the object name.




*Actually, four versions: one for Windows, Linux Mac, and one without externals.

Liam


From: katja <katjavet...@gmail.com<mailto:katjavet...@gmail.com>>
Sent: 20 January 2017 15:29
To: Liam Goodacre
Cc: PD list
Subject: Re: [PD] repackaging externals on Deken

In the early days of Raspberry Pi I has a need to redistribute a few
externals with PicoJockey, an ARMv6 targeted version of SliceJockey,
because Pd-extended did not explicitly support the platform.
PicoJockey includes a source tree with subsets of some external
libraries plus a custom build system, and a binary build for ARMv6.

This was in the pre-deken era, and while it would be technically
possible to distribute PicoJockey (or any Pd project) in such a format
via deken, I seriously doubt whether that it is a good idea. Libraries
in deken are versioned, and so would be a project that depends on
libraries. A project can only specify it's own version in the deken
interface. Now imagine a project silently installs unspecified
versions of other packages, or subsets thereof? Even when they reside
in a subtree of the project, they will conflict with 'official'
versions if not identical. This can be a source of confusion and
frustration no matter how well you know Pd.

I perfectly understand your desire for a 'one click buy', Liam. That's
what I wanted for SliceJockey and PicoJockey as well. It's good for
your project and also for the reputation of Pd when things work out of
the box. But we have to recognize the fragility of a dependency chain.
Even in the heyday of Pd-extended a library update could wreck your
'one click' project and leave people puzzled why it stopped working.
In my experience, a Pd project with 'app convenience' is an illusion
that can hold for only a while. When a project suggests to be
self-containing, users are unaware of dependencies and clueless if
something breaks.

Externals are plugins no matter ho

Re: [PD] repackaging externals on Deken

[Liam Goodacre]

Dear all:


Thanks for the detailed responses. My main interest here is, as Katja 
mentioned, the desire for a one-click-buy option (minus the "buy"). A secondary 
concern is that some future release of an external will change somehow break 
the patch, although this doesn't seem likely, given how slowly externals tend 
to move and the general commitment to backwards compatibility.


I like Fred's idea of distributing two packages, one with- and one without 
externals*. However, I take Katja's point seriously that forcing two versions 
of the same file on the same disk could become problematic. A quick and dirty 
solution to this might be to rename all the external files that are uploaded in 
the Context deken package (ie. "demux.pd_linux" --> "demux2.pd_linux"). This 
would solve the problem as far as I can see, although it seems somehow wrong. 
What are people's thoughts about this?


Two other points that are worth mentioning:


1. Context depends on [initbang] from iemguts 0.2.1. Last time I checked, the 
deken package for this was only available for Windows, not Linux or Mac.


2. I haven't used the [declare] object at all, given the warning in the help 
file against using it in abstractions. Instead, each external is declared in 
the object name.




*Actually, four versions: one for Windows, Linux Mac, and one without externals.

Liam


From: katja <katjavet...@gmail.com>
Sent: 20 January 2017 15:29
To: Liam Goodacre
Cc: PD list
Subject: Re: [PD] repackaging externals on Deken

In the early days of Raspberry Pi I has a need to redistribute a few
externals with PicoJockey, an ARMv6 targeted version of SliceJockey,
because Pd-extended did not explicitly support the platform.
PicoJockey includes a source tree with subsets of some external
libraries plus a custom build system, and a binary build for ARMv6.

This was in the pre-deken era, and while it would be technically
possible to distribute PicoJockey (or any Pd project) in such a format
via deken, I seriously doubt whether that it is a good idea. Libraries
in deken are versioned, and so would be a project that depends on
libraries. A project can only specify it's own version in the deken
interface. Now imagine a project silently installs unspecified
versions of other packages, or subsets thereof? Even when they reside
in a subtree of the project, they will conflict with 'official'
versions if not identical. This can be a source of confusion and
frustration no matter how well you know Pd.

I perfectly understand your desire for a 'one click buy', Liam. That's
what I wanted for SliceJockey and PicoJockey as well. It's good for
your project and also for the reputation of Pd when things work out of
the box. But we have to recognize the fragility of a dependency chain.
Even in the heyday of Pd-extended a library update could wreck your
'one click' project and leave people puzzled why it stopped working.
In my experience, a Pd project with 'app convenience' is an illusion
that can hold for only a while. When a project suggests to be
self-containing, users are unaware of dependencies and clueless if
something breaks.

Externals are plugins no matter how they are distributed. Be sure to
accurately and conspiciously document all dependencies of your
project, on your project page and in the distribution. Then if
something breaks, people will hopefully remember to check dependencies
and come back to your project page for info or updates. Some
dependencies are more susceptible to break than others (e.g.
unmaintained / orphaned / complicated / debated / forked libs).

You could use various distribution methods according to target
audience and release cycle. Why not start with an alpha test release
for vanilla + deken? If your project provides clear dependency
statements and include mechanisms like [declare] objects, your alpha
testers should be settled with a few deken clicks instead of just one.
If not... oh yeah... now I remember your problem with one external not
being up to date in deken. Is that a consideration for 'repackaging'?

Katja


On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 5:12 AM, Liam Goodacre <liamg...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all
>
>
> I'm starting to think about how to distribute the Context sequencer when it
> is ready (hopefully the day is not very far away).  Context is an
> abstraction, but it relies heavily on externals*. Ideally, I want it up on
> Deken, but I'm not sure what to do about the external packages. Is it
> feasible / acceptable to bundle all the externals I'm using into a folder
> and distribute them along with the main Context package? I'm hoping that
> this way the whole thing could be downloaded and installed in one click, but
> I want to make sure that there aren't any complications or license issues.
> Has external repackaging been done before?
>
>
> *The external libraries I'm using are:
>
&g

[PD] repackaging externals on Deken

[Liam Goodacre]

Hi all


I'm starting to think about how to distribute the Context sequencer when it is 
ready (hopefully the day is not very far away).  Context is an abstraction, but 
it relies heavily on externals*. Ideally, I want it up on Deken, but I'm not 
sure what to do about the external packages. Is it feasible / acceptable to 
bundle all the externals I'm using into a folder and distribute them along with 
the main Context package? I'm hoping that this way the whole thing could be 
downloaded and installed in one click, but I want to make sure that there 
aren't any complications or license issues. Has external repackaging been done 
before?


*The external libraries I'm using are:


-cyclone

-zexy

-iemguts (including initbang)

-moocow

-flatgui

-list-abs
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Re: [PD] Send/Receive topology design

[Liam Goodacre]

>> Do you know if it is better to have :
>> - [r NOTE]-->[route $1] objects inside 50 abstractions
>> - or only one [r NOTE] --> [route 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10  ] and
>> cords to these 50 abstractions


> the former is easier to patch. the latter will perform slightly better.


Another solution here would be to put the ID numbers inside the send and 
receive objects. Ie this in the parent:

|
[t b f]
| |
|[makefilename %d-channel]
| \
[send]



and this in the abstraction:

[receive $1-channel]



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Re: [PD] some feature requests for the [text] object

[Liam Goodacre]

Something else I've noticed: if you send a list of numbers to [text get], the 
object breaks. It gives an error message and then persists with this even if 
you send it a float. I know that a list is invalid input, but it would probably 
be good to protect against it in some other way.



From: Pd-list <pd-list-boun...@lists.iem.at> on behalf of Liam Goodacre 
<liamg...@hotmail.com>
Sent: 02 January 2017 16:55
To: PD list
Subject: [PD] some feature requests for the [text] object


Since 0.48 is coming up, I thought I would bring up some requests I have for 
the text family of objects. Some of these I brought up at the conference and 
some of them have only occurred to me since then. There are a lot of text 
storage objects out there and some of them still do things which can't be done 
in Vanilla. But IMO the implementation of the [text] is so successful that it 
deserves a few more features.


1. [text define] should send out a bang when the text window is saved. I 
mentioned this in a recent post. As it stands, there is no way of sensing when 
the text has been manually edited. It would be very useful to have this 
information if you ie. wanted to send the text to a list. A bang to the left 
outlet, or a new right outlet, or even a special receive channel would all work 
perfectly well here (ie. [receive mytext] gets a bang when [text define mytext] 
is edited).


2. A way to append text to the end of a line. [text set] has the third inlet to 
determine the field number on a given line, but it won't let you append text 
beyond the given line length. Is there a reason for this? Compare with "add2" 
from [textfile]. It seems to me that there should be a way of increasing a line 
indefinitely.


3. [text tolist] and [text fromlist] should accept customs separators. As it 
stands, the only accepted separator is \; , which is very awkward to work with 
from inside the patch. It would be great if both objects had an optional 
argument which specified the separator, so ie. [text tolist mytext &] would 
create list "list item 1 & item 2 & item 3 &", and [text fromlist mytext &] 
would accept the same list. Of course, leaving the argument blank would give 
the current \; separator.


3.1 I would also propose that we consider an option for specifying no separator 
for [text tolist], ie. the whole file comes out as one big list. This would 
break the symmetry with [text fromlist], but would still be useful in some 
circumstances.


4. A "flush" message to [text get] outputs each line of text iteratively, all 
at once. This of course can be done with [until], but I would love it if it was 
possible in one shot.


5. A flag on the read command that interprets commas as symbols, not line ends. 
ie. "read -a text-with-commas.txt". This would be useful when using [text] to 
read and print plain English files, ie. for help messages and such. Right now 
I'm having to write a whole lot of instructions without using commas. It's an 
interesting creative exercise, but something I'd rather avoid! [msgfile] can 
read commas correctly, so zexy has the upper hand here.



I hope that these are useful suggestions, and that some of them can be 
implemented without difficulty.


Liam
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Re: [PD] some feature requests for the [text] object

[Liam Goodacre]

   >  4.) This can already been achieved with [bang( -> [text sequence]

Ah, of course.

>  b) a simple mechanism to pop the text window. Right now I'm using a hack 
with mouse messages, but a more elegant way would be very much appreciated :-).

This can be done with "click" and "close" messages.







Gesendet: Montag, 02. Januar 2017 um 17:55 Uhr
Von: "Liam Goodacre" <liamg...@hotmail.com>
An: "PD list" <pd-list@lists.iem.at>
Betreff: [PD] some feature requests for the [text] object

Since 0.48 is coming up, I thought I would bring up some requests I have for 
the text family of objects. Some of these I brought up at the conference and 
some of them have only occurred to me since then. There are a lot of text 
storage objects out there and some of them still do things which can't be done 
in Vanilla. But IMO the implementation of the [text] is so successful that it 
deserves a few more features.

1. [text define] should send out a bang when the text window is saved. I 
mentioned this in a recent post. As it stands, there is no way of sensing when 
the text has been manually edited. It would be very useful to have this 
information if you ie. wanted to send the text to a list. A bang to the left 
outlet, or a new right outlet, or even a special receive channel would all work 
perfectly well here (ie. [receive mytext] gets a bang when [text define mytext] 
is edited).

2. A way to append text to the end of a line. [text set] has the third inlet to 
determine the field number on a given line, but it won't let you append text 
beyond the given line length. Is there a reason for this? Compare with "add2" 
from [textfile]. It seems to me that there should be a way of increasing a line 
indefinitely.

3. [text tolist] and [text fromlist] should accept customs separators. As it 
stands, the only accepted separator is \; , which is very awkward to work with 
from inside the patch. It would be great if both objects had an optional 
argument which specified the separator, so ie. [text tolist mytext &] would 
create list "list item 1 & item 2 & item 3 &", and [text fromlist mytext &] 
would accept the same list. Of course, leaving the argument blank would give 
the current \; separator.

3.1 I would also propose that we consider an option for specifying no separator 
for [text tolist], ie. the whole file comes out as one big list. This would 
break the symmetry with [text fromlist], but would still be useful in some 
circumstances.

4. A "flush" message to [text get] outputs each line of text iteratively, all 
at once. This of course can be done with [until], but I would love it if it was 
possible in one shot.

5. A flag on the read command that interprets commas as symbols, not line ends. 
ie. "read -a text-with-commas.txt". This would be useful when using [text] to 
read and print plain English files, ie. for help messages and such. Right now 
I'm having to write a whole lot of instructions without using commas. It's an 
interesting creative exercise, but something I'd rather avoid! [msgfile] can 
read commas correctly, so zexy has the upper hand here.


I hope that these are useful suggestions, and that some of them can be 
implemented without difficulty.

Liam
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[PD] some feature requests for the [text] object

[Liam Goodacre]

Since 0.48 is coming up, I thought I would bring up some requests I have for 
the text family of objects. Some of these I brought up at the conference and 
some of them have only occurred to me since then. There are a lot of text 
storage objects out there and some of them still do things which can't be done 
in Vanilla. But IMO the implementation of the [text] is so successful that it 
deserves a few more features.


1. [text define] should send out a bang when the text window is saved. I 
mentioned this in a recent post. As it stands, there is no way of sensing when 
the text has been manually edited. It would be very useful to have this 
information if you ie. wanted to send the text to a list. A bang to the left 
outlet, or a new right outlet, or even a special receive channel would all work 
perfectly well here (ie. [receive mytext] gets a bang when [text define mytext] 
is edited).


2. A way to append text to the end of a line. [text set] has the third inlet to 
determine the field number on a given line, but it won't let you append text 
beyond the given line length. Is there a reason for this? Compare with "add2" 
from [textfile]. It seems to me that there should be a way of increasing a line 
indefinitely.


3. [text tolist] and [text fromlist] should accept customs separators. As it 
stands, the only accepted separator is \; , which is very awkward to work with 
from inside the patch. It would be great if both objects had an optional 
argument which specified the separator, so ie. [text tolist mytext &] would 
create list "list item 1 & item 2 & item 3 &", and [text fromlist mytext &] 
would accept the same list. Of course, leaving the argument blank would give 
the current \; separator.


3.1 I would also propose that we consider an option for specifying no separator 
for [text tolist], ie. the whole file comes out as one big list. This would 
break the symmetry with [text fromlist], but would still be useful in some 
circumstances.


4. A "flush" message to [text get] outputs each line of text iteratively, all 
at once. This of course can be done with [until], but I would love it if it was 
possible in one shot.


5. A flag on the read command that interprets commas as symbols, not line ends. 
ie. "read -a text-with-commas.txt". This would be useful when using [text] to 
read and print plain English files, ie. for help messages and such. Right now 
I'm having to write a whole lot of instructions without using commas. It's an 
interesting creative exercise, but something I'd rather avoid! [msgfile] can 
read commas correctly, so zexy has the upper hand here.



I hope that these are useful suggestions, and that some of them can be 
implemented without difficulty.


Liam
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[PD] sensing [text define] saves

[Liam Goodacre]

If you click on [text define], a nice text box appears which you can edit and 
save. I need a way of sensing the saves from inside the patch, so that I can 
turn the text into a list. Is there any way of doing this?


One thing I've come up with: the text box's hexadecimal canvas name sends a 
"clear" message when it is saved. So [receive .x2780f60] will receive a 
message, if .x2780f60 is the correct canvas name for the text box. You can 
identify this number by running debug mode ("pd -d 3"), but I'm not aware of 
any way of ascertaining it from within the patch. Can anyone think of anything 
here? Or is there another channel which the "clear" message is sent to?


If there is no solution to this, then it would be new feature to have with 
[text define]! Either a special send channel, or a second outlet.
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Re: [PD] [text] editor window line numbers?

[Liam Goodacre]

What about prepending the line numbers on the way into [text]?



From: Pd-list  on behalf of Derek Kwan 

Sent: 05 December 2016 03:48
To: pd-list@lists.iem.at
Subject: [PD] [text] editor window line numbers?

Hi list,

Is there an "easy" way of getting line numbers in the editor window for
[text] (the one that pops up with the "click" method), perhaps via tcl
plugin or adding/editing methods in pdtk_textwindow.tcl? It'd be
particularly helpful in jumping to specific line numbers when using
[text sequence]. Thanks!
--
Derek Kwan
www.derekxkwan.com
derek kwan | percussionist / electronic artist
www.derekxkwan.com
website of percussionist and computer programmer Derek Kwan



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Re: [PD] cyclone comment and cross platform (was Re: Purr Data rc1)

[Liam Goodacre]

Spaces work in labels in L2Ork because they are escaped with a backslash. But 
this is creating an incompatibility with Vanilla, which then can't read the 
object's properties.


If you want a way to get larger, nicer text into a PD file than allowed with 
the ctrl+5 comment, the best way might be to use ASCII 255, the non breaking 
space (" "), which looks like a space but is read like a regular character. 
It's a bit of a pain to copy it between every word, but it works nicely across 
platforms once it's in place. A faster option for editing might be to let 
Vanilla replace spaces with underscores and then edit them in the .pd file with 
a text editor.


From: Pd-list  on behalf of Jonathan Wilkes via 
Pd-list 
Sent: 04 December 2016 01:27
To: Alexandre Torres Porres
Cc: Pd-List
Subject: Re: [PD] cyclone comment and cross platform (was Re: Purr Data rc1)

Why not just use the built-in  comment?



From: Alexandre Torres Porres 
To: Jonathan Wilkes 
Cc: Pd-List 
Sent: Friday, December 2, 2016 1:10 PM
Subject: Re: [PD] cyclone comment and cross platform (was Re: Purr Data rc1)

Hi, I see Purr Data has this feature where it accepts spaces in lables such as 
in canvases... this is awesome, and mostly why I use cyclone/comment

I can see we could depart from how you can lable stuff in Purr Data to make a 
new working cross platform version of cyclone/comment that is still backwards 
compatible.

cheers

2016-11-29 2:28 GMT-02:00 Alexandre Torres Porres 
>:
one question, how does canvas and other fonts for labels work in cross 
platforms?

why not use that for comment... for now, all cyclone/comment is can be thought 
of just being a fancy label perhaps...

I did use it a lot in my new help files that I'm working on, but only cause 
it'd be too much work to use canvas and labels, as it'd imply a canvas for each 
word as it doesn't take spaces (is only a symbol)

I was even thinking of ditching it when, it stopped working on vanilla 0.47 - 
yeah, that's another thing, a fix needs to be made to vanilla for old versions 
of comment (0.2 and below to work) - but then I realized it could be really 
useful. I was also hoping to add properties windows to make it more convenient.

anyway, the question is, why labels and stuff simply work?

cheers


2016-11-28 21:45 GMT-02:00 Jonathan Wilkes 
>:



Another reason for putting it off is that I still haven't figured out a sane 
approach
to handling arbitrary fonts in a diagram where everything is absolutely 
positioned.
In fact I only have a minimally-workable approach to handling a single, mono-
spaced font across platforms.  For example, there was a change somewhere in
the Gnu/Linux font-stack (relatively) recently that renders fonts (or at least
DejaVu Sans Mono) noticeably wider than before.  So Windows, OSX, and
old Gnu/Linux would render a particular line of text sized at "12px" within less
than a single pixel of each other.  The new Gnu/Linux font stack (seen in Ubuntu
16.04 and some recent Arch) rendered the same text about 7 pixels wider.

Worse, the newer Gnu/Linux font stack quantizes the "px" sizes such that the
next smallest size is noticeably smaller.  So in Ubuntu 16.04 I have to 
compromise
by keeping the object box the same size and having some extra padding at the
end-- otherwise users of that OS could end up tightly spacing their object 
chains
in ways that cause overlaps on the other platforms.

So... I'd like to get a handle on that mess first, then handling arbitrary font
families-- as in cyclone/comment-- will hopefully be easier and less prone
to bugs.

> well, it seems some of the issues are exactly what we're facing now...

I think those issues are impossible to solve for displaying arbitrary fonts in
a diagram like a Pd patch, and especially for arbitrary fonts in multi-line 
text.
The user simply won't be able to predict whether or not there will be collisions
on someone else's platform (or even if those fonts aren't available, which fonts
will get chosen).

I'm all for porting cyclone/comment for the sake of Max compatibility.  But I'd
strongly advise against using cyclone/comment in any patch that's supposed to
be used cross-platform (aside from its own help patch, of course).

-Jonathan

> cheers




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