Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on analogindustries.com
On Tue, 8 Mar 2011, Andy Farnell wrote: This is pure superstition and folklore, but I'm sure it had something to do with using [knob] objects. Just a feeling in my bones. Well, that's possibly a very good guess. Now if only someone could look at [knob]'s code, to find out what might be wrong with it... Anything that uses sys_vgui() can be doing things wrong sometimes. For example, current sys_vgui() conventions can cause conflicting pointers in Win64, but there is no evidence that this ever happened. Afaict, this is a separate bug from the one you experienced, and from the windows bug that I've seen a long time ago. The Win64 bug is not easy to fix and it doesn't look like anyone will want to fix it anytime soon. ___ | Mathieu Bouchard tél: +1.514.383.3801 Villeray, Montréal, QC___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on analogindustries.com
On Tue, 8 Mar 2011, Lorenzo Sutton wrote: I think I already used the cuisine metaphor here... My Italian genes always point me to that... Along the lines of Mathieu's (?) topic in the dataflow IRC about ready-made solutions. « Readymade Solutions Require Readymade Problems; For Everything Else There Is PureData.™ » But it also applies to MAX and every other programming language. I said it in opposition to the kind of audio app (or video app) that gives you a feature set to which the problem must be fitted (or else, too bad for you). Whenever I open any «audio app» other than Pd, all I can see is a bunch of limitations that is going to prevent me from doing what I want 30 minutes in the future. But when I say Pd here, it includes MAX. The choice between Pd and MAX is not what I had in mind when I thought of the above slogan, and of « The diagram is the program ». In the comparison between Pd and MAX, I don't think we need slogans nearly as much as we need more features (even though Pd already offers a lot of unique tools). ___ | Mathieu Bouchard tél: +1.514.383.3801 Villeray, Montréal, QC ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on, analogindustries.com
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 2011-03-08 00:43, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: I guess you don't work in anything but 44100 sampling rates. I have done projects that use 22050 and 48k, and both won't work right unless the sampling rate is set correctly. Therefore its an essential property of the patch. hmm, most patches should be stable with regard to sample rate. so a patch that only works at 22kHz, could be considered buggy. otoh, i guess you are aware of that, and it indeed was hard to create a sample-rate agnostic version of the patch without going through ugly hacks (most likely: soundfiles recorded at specific sr, and no built-in capabilities of Pd to resample) finally: i've done plenty of patches that won't work at all if you only have stereo-output. personally i don't know whether it is a good idea to force a patch from within the patch to run at certain settings. the user usually has a better idea of the capabilities of their hardware then the off-site developer. the mediasettings library provides a programmatic way to change the settings, with possible userinteraction. the main target was to allow to implement persistent audio settings using alternative GUIs, rather than persistent audio settings when moving patches between hosts. mediasettings has been developed for the IntegraLive project; there has been long discussion within the project whether audio-settings should be Patch specific or host specific (and i cannot remember the outcome). i guess one should only try to set the parameters that are crucial (e.g. if you know that your patch will only run at 92kHz, only try to set the samplerate but don't try to change the device) mediasettings allows is (well it's designed to allow it; i hope it does) fgmadr IOhannes -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk116isACgkQkX2Xpv6ydvQeVQCgh7LoTB7c4ROwLqb/WlLbADU1 iRsAoMfTkUzrKoD2nWFleezM4YsWAZcP =evv6 -END PGP SIGNATURE- smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on analogindustries.com
chris clepper wrote: I get asked by people if Pd is ever coming out of beta. I think I already used the cuisine metaphor here... My Italian genes always point me to that... Along the lines of Mathieu's (?) topic in the dataflow IRC about ready-made solutions. And of course it would have been nice if he *shared* the patch(es) which made Pd crash. It's interesting (from a more, let's say 'social' point of view) that in these MAX vs PD, Windows VS Linux, commercial VS FLOSS discussions the former attitude is usually hey tried this, I think it's crap/too hard for me/buggy/can't use it at the first go... and the latter is always care to tell us what was wrong? whatever works best for you Interesting. Lorenzo. On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 2:47 PM, Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca mailto:ma...@artengine.ca wrote: On Mon, 7 Mar 2011, Andy Farnell wrote: A trial version eh? Let's see how that comparison is working out in 30 days. I've been running a trial version of pd for 8 or 9 years now. I'm waiting for it to expire. ___ | Mathieu Bouchard tél: +1.514.383.3801 Villeray, Montréal, QC ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailto:Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on, analogindustries.com
Hi, On Mon, Mar 07, 2011 at 10:46:02PM -0500, Mathieu Bouchard wrote: Right. But are some soundcards and/or drivers limited to only certain sampling rates ? Actually most soundcards only support a limited number of samplerates in their hardware, everything else then requires resampling in software. A common example are USB soundcards that often only support 48kHz or do not support high samplerates like 96kHz. Ciao -- Frank BarknechtDo You RjDj.me? _ __footils.org__ ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on, analogindustries.com
Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: On Mar 7, 2011, at 1:28 PM, Peter Kirn wrote: Okay, I'm with others here - what is Chris on this time? I can see three complaints: 1. Ugly UI (fine.) 2. Lack of persistence of audio interface settings. Actually, two comments here on that -- first, of course, you can set this as a command-line argument, which to me is the safest way to go. But secondly, maybe there's a reason Pd can't persist audio settings between sessions? No idea. Anyway, at best, his comment here is misleading. You can definite make persistent audio interface settings. The preferred way is to set them in your patch. IOhannes is currently making a 'mediasettings' library which will make this much easier. Otherwise see get-audio-dialog in the 'hcs' lib. Otherwise just learn how to make a 1-line script, batch file or whatever it's called on MACs - uh Lorenzo. .hc 3. Crashes Crashes ... where? As near as I can tell, this entire rant is about the stability of vst~. (Is vst~ even part of Vanilla?) Peter ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list 'You people have such restrictive dress for women,’ she said, hobbling away in three inch heels and panty hose to finish out another pink-collar temp pool day. - “Hijab Scene #2, by Mohja Kahf ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on, analogindustries.com
Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: On Mar 7, 2011, at 6:19 PM, Mathieu Bouchard wrote: On Mon, 7 Mar 2011, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: You can definite make persistent audio interface settings. The preferred way is to set them in your patch. Preferred by whom ? I can't picture anyone wanting to set anyone else's audio settings when they send someone else a patch. I guess you don't work in anything but 44100 sampling rates. I have done projects that use 22050 and 48k, and both won't work right unless the sampling rate is set correctly. Therefore its an essential property of the patch. But you can often use [samplerate~] in those situations no? Lorenzo. .hc IOhannes is currently making a 'mediasettings' library which will make this much easier. Otherwise see get-audio-dialog in the 'hcs' lib. But how can I edit that in ~/.pdsettings, ~/.pdextended, or whatever it is on whatever platform it is ? ___ | Mathieu Bouchard tél: +1.514.383.3801 Villeray, Montréal, QC http://at.or.at/hans/ ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on analogindustries.com
Besides the unspecified bugs and crashes, I think what's overstated in that blog post is the brave comparison and generalization between OS and proprietary software. Imho it's fairly non-sense, even more 'cause not backed up by specifications or even simple ideas. I agree one can freely complain on his own blog, but, hey, fact is you're still using a free software and the license is quite clear about it. No warranty, if it doesn't work as you expect go on for Max. Without bothering yourself and the others. If you really need to do it, you can in a far more polite and constructive way. As we all know there's a massive amount of professionals working with Pd on Mac flawlessly. (I would be curious to know how many new blog visits he has in these days) M when i was giving a short Pd workshop in november there was a parallel session in maxMSP/jitter and one of those students came up to me and was complaining that MAX always crashed Pd didn't. just to throw in a equally unspecific report. -- Marco Donnarumma Independent New Media and Sonic Arts Professional, Performer, Instructor ACE, Sound Design MSc by Research (ongoing) The University of Edinburgh, UK ~ Portfolio: http://marcodonnarumma.com Lab: http://www.thesaddj.com | http://cntrl.sourceforge.net | http://www.flxer.net Event: http://www.liveperformersmeeting.net ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on, analogindustries.com
You can definite make persistent audio interface settings. The preferred way is to set them in your patch. Preferred by whom ? I can't picture anyone wanting to set anyone else's audio settings when they send someone else a patch. I guess you don't work in anything but 44100 sampling rates. I have done projects that use 22050 and 48k, and both won't work right unless the sampling rate is set correctly. Therefore its an essential property of the patch. But you can often use [samplerate~] in those situations no? There are some times when you have to know the sample rate beforehand, especially in delay situations where an algorithm depends both on the milliseconds of delay AND the actual number of samples. This can happen in reverb and filter design, and elsewhere. Otherwise this is also a problem in more obvious ways when you're playing sound files -- sometimes I'll make my patches so that if it detects the wrong [samplerate~] it tells the user to close the patch and fix it. Which reminds me: there used to be a problem with [delwrite~] where it would allocate its memory when the patch containing it loaded, based on the sample rate active at the time, such that if you switched Pd to a higher sample rate after the patch loaded, you'd have the same maximum number of samples of delay, but not the same maximum milliseconds. I remember there had been talk about fixing this, but if it's still a problem, this might be a reason not to set sample rate from the patch. Matt ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on, analogindustries.com
On Mar 8, 2011, at 4:43 AM, Lorenzo Sutton wrote: Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: On Mar 7, 2011, at 6:19 PM, Mathieu Bouchard wrote: On Mon, 7 Mar 2011, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: You can definite make persistent audio interface settings. The preferred way is to set them in your patch. Preferred by whom ? I can't picture anyone wanting to set anyone else's audio settings when they send someone else a patch. I guess you don't work in anything but 44100 sampling rates. I have done projects that use 22050 and 48k, and both won't work right unless the sampling rate is set correctly. Therefore its an essential property of the patch. But you can often use [samplerate~] in those situations no? Lorenzo. Sure, its totally possible to make patches with samples work at any sample rate, but usually this is a silly exercise in futility. For example, in most of my sound design work, the sound is going to end up as a 48k audio track to a video. Why would I work at anything but 48k? Sound cards have only a small set of supported sampling rates, MP3s/etc. mostly use one sampling rate, etc. .hc If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on, analogindustries.com
On Tue, 8 Mar 2011, Lorenzo Sutton wrote: Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: I guess you don't work in anything but 44100 sampling rates. I have done projects that use 22050 and 48k, and both won't work right unless the sampling rate is set correctly. Therefore its an essential property of the patch. But you can often use [samplerate~] in those situations no? Not necessarily. Even things like [lop~] look like they aren't adapting well to the samplerate, even though they are computed using samplerate. However, I haven't dug deep enough to figure out whether it was really a [lop~] problem, or rather a [vd~]/[tabread4~] problem, or perhaps a problem with the very concept of sampling (that is, that we shouldn't expect too much from harmonics that are too close to Nyquist... and that starts a lot below Nyquist frequency). ___ | Mathieu Bouchard tél: +1.514.383.3801 Villeray, Montréal, QC ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on, analogindustries.com
On Tue, 8 Mar 2011, Matt Barber wrote: Which reminds me: there used to be a problem with [delwrite~] where it would allocate its memory when the patch containing it loaded, based on the sample rate active at the time, such that if you switched Pd to a higher sample rate after the patch loaded, you'd have the same maximum number of samples of delay, but not the same maximum milliseconds. I remember there had been talk about fixing this, but if it's still a problem, this might be a reason not to set sample rate from the patch. I fixed that problem. The fix has been accepted and I think that it went in pd-extended 42.5, but I think that it wasn't listed in the change log. http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detailaid=3011594group_id=55736atid=478072 http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detailaid=2978457group_id=55736atid=478072 It's split over two tickets because I don't really understand the difference between the patch tracker and the bug tracker. ___ | Mathieu Bouchard tél: +1.514.383.3801 Villeray, Montréal, QC ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on, analogindustries.com
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 2011-03-08 16:46, Mathieu Bouchard wrote: On Tue, 8 Mar 2011, Matt Barber wrote: Which reminds me: there used to be a problem with [delwrite~] where it would allocate its memory when the patch containing it loaded, based on the sample rate active at the time, such that if you switched Pd to a higher sample rate after the patch loaded, you'd have the same maximum number of samples of delay, but not the same maximum milliseconds. I remember there had been talk about fixing this, but if it's still a problem, this might be a reason not to set sample rate from the patch. I fixed that problem. The fix has been accepted and I think that it went in pd-extended 42.5, but I think that it wasn't listed in the change log. http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detailaid=3011594group_id=55736atid=478072 http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detailaid=2978457group_id=55736atid=478072 It's split over two tickets because I don't really understand the difference between the patch tracker and the bug tracker. btw, a bug issue can be changed into a patch issue. i guess you need admin rights for that, though. fgmasdr IOhannes -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk12UVEACgkQkX2Xpv6ydvSNGACfXEfsQNgR5MWUJ8HirYOYtx3D J6oAoMIEONrHHDJe5BbjeN0r/0Z2KD0a =Ei7B -END PGP SIGNATURE- smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on, analogindustries.com
On Tue, 8 Mar 2011, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote: On 2011-03-08 16:46, Mathieu Bouchard wrote: It's split over two tickets because I don't really understand the difference between the patch tracker and the bug tracker. btw, a bug issue can be changed into a patch issue. Yeah, but I wouldn't know what that means, because Hans copied the patch from the patch tracker to the bug tracker and marked the patch tracker item as a duplicate and considered the bug tracker item to be the non-duplicate. So, I don't know what the patch tracker is for, compared to the bug tracker, so I don't know why one would or would not change a bug issue into a patch issue and what it might change or not to the processing of issues. ___ | Mathieu Bouchard tél: +1.514.383.3801 Villeray, Montréal, QC ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on analogindustries.com
On Mon, 7 Mar 2011, Miller Puckette wrote: On Mon, Mar 07, 2011 at 04:45:09PM -0500, Mathieu Bouchard wrote: Is that because of the version numbers ? They always begin with a zero. I never thought of that... It seems to be generalised all over pd : nearly all versioning of externals and abstractions is like that. I got tired of it and started trimming the 0 at the beginning of version numbers (instead of trying to correct my students when they were already doing so). When Iohannes confirmed that GEM won't ever reach 1.0, I started doing it even more liberally. Reminds me of the version number war between Digital Research DOS, MicroSoft DOS and IBM DOS... because much of the appreciation for modest, humble version numbers seemed to be in reaction to such sillyness. But it didn't take long before it went silly the other way. ___ | Mathieu Bouchard tél: +1.514.383.3801 Villeray, Montréal, QC ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on, analogindustries.com
On Mon, 7 Mar 2011, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: On Mar 7, 2011, at 6:19 PM, Mathieu Bouchard wrote: I can't picture anyone wanting to set anyone else's audio settings when they send someone else a patch. I guess you don't work in anything but 44100 sampling rates. I have done projects that use 22050 and 48k, and both won't work right unless the sampling rate is set correctly. Therefore its an essential property of the patch. Ok, yeah, well, I do work in both 44100 and 22050, but I have nearly everything in 44100, and when I use 88200, it's only about part of the patch. But anyway I was thinking more about stuff like -oss -audiodev -channels. You are quite right about the sampling rate, but that means too bad for soundcards that don't support your patch. ___ | Mathieu Bouchard tél: +1.514.383.3801 Villeray, Montréal, QC ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on analogindustries.com
On Tue, 8 Mar 2011, João Pais wrote: Randomly disappearing boxes, and generally, canvas appearance that stops reflecting canvas content — wasn't that a big WINDOWS®-only bug in Pd a few years ago ? No idea what the problem was. Does that still happen to anyone ? I've used Pd 99,% of my time in windows, and don't ever remember that happening. Since what year ? I think it was a fairly long time ago, although I do have a vague memory of having seen the problem much later and having been surprised, but that might have been simply because someone was using a very old version. My guess is that it was something that got fixed in Pd 38 or so (2004), but that's a bit of a wild guess. ___ | Mathieu Bouchard tél: +1.514.383.3801 Villeray, Montréal, QC ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on analogindustries.com
I saw it quite recently. A student showed me a patch where objects kept disappearing. IIRC it would have been on a Mac with OSX 10.6 running whatever was the extended release available end October 2010 I said is was probably a graphics bug and to reinstall. AFAIK it went away. This is pure superstition and folklore, but I'm sure it had something to do with using [knob] objects. Just a feeling in my bones. a. On Tue, 8 Mar 2011 14:21:23 -0500 (EST) Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca wrote: On Tue, 8 Mar 2011, João Pais wrote: Randomly disappearing boxes, and generally, canvas appearance that stops reflecting canvas content — wasn't that a big WINDOWS®-only bug in Pd a few years ago ? No idea what the problem was. Does that still happen to anyone ? I've used Pd 99,% of my time in windows, and don't ever remember that happening. Since what year ? I think it was a fairly long time ago, although I do have a vague memory of having seen the problem much later and having been surprised, but that might have been simply because someone was using a very old version. My guess is that it was something that got fixed in Pd 38 or so (2004), but that's a bit of a wild guess. ___ | Mathieu Bouchard tél: +1.514.383.3801 Villeray, Montréal, QC -- Andy Farnell padawa...@obiwannabe.co.uk ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on analogindustries.com
On Tue, 8 Mar 2011, Marco Donnarumma wrote: I agree one can freely complain on his own blog, but, hey, fact is you're still using a free software and the license is quite clear about it. No warranty, if it doesn't work as you expect go on for Max. Without bothering yourself and the others. If you really need to do it, you can in a far more polite and constructive way. I went to read another older (2010) discussion about Pd on the same blog, and it made all pd-list arguments look like a happy family having fun. That blog is not for the faint of heart. Just ignore it. (I would be curious to know how many new blog visits he has in these days) It's probably better not to know. ___ | Mathieu Bouchard tél: +1.514.383.3801 Villeray, Montréal, QC ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on analogindustries.com
Randomly disappearing boxes, and generally, canvas appearance that stops reflecting canvas content — wasn't that a big WINDOWS®-only bug in Pd a few years ago ? No idea what the problem was. Does that still happen to anyone ? I've used Pd 99,% of my time in windows, and don't ever remember that happening. Since what year ? since the year I dropped max for windows, around 2004 or something. between other reasons (OpS), max was crashing a lot, and only by looking at a metro it was possible to see that it wasn't that regular at all. to be fair, it was the first max version for windows, now is better. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on analogindustries.com
A quick search of the mailing list and bug tracker don't reveal anything from Chris Randall. As a software developer he is no doubt aware that user bug reports are vital to fixing problems. I think he could have done a bit more to help his situation. On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 11:45 AM, pierlu pie...@gmail.com wrote: Hi everybody. I regularly read the blog @ analogindustries.com, and today an interesting post about pd vs max/msp stability on macintel appeared. You can read about it here http://www.analogindustries.com/blog/entry.php?blogid=1299508451902 To be honest, I always found pd on PPC macs to be fairly stable for my needs, and the author of the post (in comments) points out that on pc's pd is fairly stable too. So I just wanted to bring out the matter to the community, just for the sake of discussion. No hatred please! :) cheers, p. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on analogindustries.com
in the way that he is talking about looks like a more generalized problem, but in my personal experience i have no problem at all here, and about a way to configure audio and midi in pd for every time it starts, a software developer should not have a problem on it, even more, if it is using the software for years..well, just my opinion 2011/3/7 pierlu pie...@gmail.com Hi everybody. I regularly read the blog @ analogindustries.com, and today an interesting post about pd vs max/msp stability on macintel appeared. You can read about it here http://www.analogindustries.com/blog/entry.php?blogid=1299508451902 To be honest, I always found pd on PPC macs to be fairly stable for my needs, and the author of the post (in comments) points out that on pc's pd is fairly stable too. So I just wanted to bring out the matter to the community, just for the sake of discussion. No hatred please! :) cheers, p. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on analogindustries.com
Hear hear! Sure, there are crasher bugs with Pd, but if you aren't even going to bother to report them, how can you expect them to be fixed? Most of the developers of Pd use Pd in their own work, and therefore are very likely to fix problems they encounter. I rarely encounter crasher bugs because I try to fix them when they happen to me. So that points to something else: the area where the Pd devs work are the area where Pd will work best. I don't know any Pd dev doing a lot with VSTs or even MIDI, so that is not where Pd is going to shine. .hc On Mar 7, 2011, at 12:23 PM, chris clepper wrote: A quick search of the mailing list and bug tracker don't reveal anything from Chris Randall. As a software developer he is no doubt aware that user bug reports are vital to fixing problems. I think he could have done a bit more to help his situation. On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 11:45 AM, pierlu pie...@gmail.com wrote: Hi everybody. I regularly read the blog @ analogindustries.com, and today an interesting post about pd vs max/msp stability on macintel appeared. You can read about it here http://www.analogindustries.com/blog/entry.php?blogid=1299508451902 To be honest, I always found pd on PPC macs to be fairly stable for my needs, and the author of the post (in comments) points out that on pc's pd is fairly stable too. So I just wanted to bring out the matter to the community, just for the sake of discussion. No hatred please! :) cheers, p. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list [W]e have invented the technology to eliminate scarcity, but we are deliberately throwing it away to benefit those who profit from scarcity.-John Gilmore ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on analogindustries.com
Le 07/03/2011 18:33, Hans-Christoph Steiner a écrit : Hear hear! Sure, there are crasher bugs with Pd, but if you aren't even going to bother to report them, how can you expect them to be fixed? Most of the developers of Pd use Pd in their own work, and therefore are very likely to fix problems they encounter. I rarely encounter crasher bugs because I try to fix them when they happen to me. So that points to something else: the area where the Pd devs work are the area where Pd will work best. I don't know any Pd dev doing a lot with VSTs or even MIDI, so that is not where Pd is going to shine. pd works great with midi. (except sysex). it can be VERY accurate if you start pd -noaudio. c .hc On Mar 7, 2011, at 12:23 PM, chris clepper wrote: A quick search of the mailing list and bug tracker don't reveal anything from Chris Randall. As a software developer he is no doubt aware that user bug reports are vital to fixing problems. I think he could have done a bit more to help his situation. On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 11:45 AM, pierlu pie...@gmail.com mailto:pie...@gmail.com wrote: Hi everybody. I regularly read the blog @ analogindustries.com http://analogindustries.com, and today an interesting post about pd vs max/msp stability on macintel appeared. You can read about it here http://www.analogindustries.com/blog/entry.php?blogid=1299508451902 To be honest, I always found pd on PPC macs to be fairly stable for my needs, and the author of the post (in comments) points out that on pc's pd is fairly stable too. So I just wanted to bring out the matter to the community, just for the sake of discussion. No hatred please! :) cheers, p. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailto:Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailto:Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list [W]e have invented the technology to eliminate scarcity, but we are deliberately throwing it away to benefit those who profit from scarcity. -John Gilmore ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on analogindustries.com
Well it works great with midi even with audio on. The thing I noticed is that cc messages are not as so responsive as midi messages. Working with launchpad I noticed that I can send at once several midi messages by pressing more than one button at a time while when sending cc messages I can only push one button at a time to make cc work properly. (the top row on the launchpad sends cc instead of midi messages). p. On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 6:49 PM, cyrille henry c...@chnry.net wrote: Le 07/03/2011 18:33, Hans-Christoph Steiner a écrit : Hear hear! Sure, there are crasher bugs with Pd, but if you aren't even going to bother to report them, how can you expect them to be fixed? Most of the developers of Pd use Pd in their own work, and therefore are very likely to fix problems they encounter. I rarely encounter crasher bugs because I try to fix them when they happen to me. So that points to something else: the area where the Pd devs work are the area where Pd will work best. I don't know any Pd dev doing a lot with VSTs or even MIDI, so that is not where Pd is going to shine. pd works great with midi. (except sysex). it can be VERY accurate if you start pd -noaudio. c .hc On Mar 7, 2011, at 12:23 PM, chris clepper wrote: A quick search of the mailing list and bug tracker don't reveal anything from Chris Randall. As a software developer he is no doubt aware that user bug reports are vital to fixing problems. I think he could have done a bit more to help his situation. On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 11:45 AM, pierlu pie...@gmail.com mailto:pie...@gmail.com wrote: Hi everybody. I regularly read the blog @ analogindustries.com http://analogindustries.com, and today an interesting post about pd vs max/msp stability on macintel appeared. You can read about it here http://www.analogindustries.com/blog/entry.php?blogid=1299508451902 To be honest, I always found pd on PPC macs to be fairly stable for my needs, and the author of the post (in comments) points out that on pc's pd is fairly stable too. So I just wanted to bring out the matter to the community, just for the sake of discussion. No hatred please! :) cheers, p. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailto:Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailto:Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list [W]e have invented the technology to eliminate scarcity, but we are deliberately throwing it away to benefit those who profit from scarcity. -John Gilmore ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on, analogindustries.com
Okay, I'm with others here - what is Chris on this time? I can see three complaints: 1. Ugly UI (fine.) 2. Lack of persistence of audio interface settings. Actually, two comments here on that -- first, of course, you can set this as a command-line argument, which to me is the safest way to go. But secondly, maybe there's a reason Pd can't persist audio settings between sessions? No idea. Anyway, at best, his comment here is misleading. 3. "Crashes" Crashes ... where? As near as I can tell, this entire rant is about the stability of vst~. (Is vst~ even part of Vanilla?) Peter ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on analogindustries.com
A trial version eh? Let's see how that comparison is working out in 30 days. a. On Mon, 7 Mar 2011 17:45:12 +0100 pierlu pie...@gmail.com wrote: Hi everybody. I regularly read the blog @ analogindustries.com, and today an interesting post about pd vs max/msp stability on macintel appeared. You can read about it here http://www.analogindustries.com/blog/entry.php?blogid=1299508451902 To be honest, I always found pd on PPC macs to be fairly stable for my needs, and the author of the post (in comments) points out that on pc's pd is fairly stable too. So I just wanted to bring out the matter to the community, just for the sake of discussion. No hatred please! :) cheers, p. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- Andy Farnell padawa...@obiwannabe.co.uk ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on analogindustries.com
Re-posting as my previous post got scrubbed - sorry, Thunderbird is convinced Pd-list archives are rich HTML. Doh. ;) Anyway, I understand now - Chris is complaining generally about stability, not about vst~. It's troubling, but he's not going into specifics, so it's hard to know how to respond. I am genuinely curious about what's causing his troubles; I suspect it isn't his imagination, so that makes me wonder what the cause is. As for the UI - well, I think everyone's aware of the situation there. For audio interface setting persistence, I see that is now improved in Pd-extended; don't know if that's a patch worth making to Vanilla. It's a question that comes up a lot, and I don't know enough about the state of that feature, but I'd be curious to know. Peter ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on analogindustries.com
On Mon, 7 Mar 2011, Andy Farnell wrote: A trial version eh? Let's see how that comparison is working out in 30 days. I've been running a trial version of pd for 8 or 9 years now. I'm waiting for it to expire. ___ | Mathieu Bouchard tél: +1.514.383.3801 Villeray, Montréal, QC ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on analogindustries.com
It's a missed opportunity for everyone involved. Here was a developer of audio plugins with a lot of experience who could have provided a lot of valuable feedback, but chose not to do so. It doesn't take that much time to fire off the crash log to the list or post something on Sourceforge, plus he would have a lot more direct interaction with the Pd developers. Could have been a mutually beneficial relationship. On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 2:04 PM, Peter Kirn pe...@createdigitalmedia.netwrote: Re-posting as my previous post got scrubbed - sorry, Thunderbird is convinced Pd-list archives are rich HTML. Doh. ;) Anyway, I understand now - Chris is complaining generally about stability, not about vst~. It's troubling, but he's not going into specifics, so it's hard to know how to respond. I am genuinely curious about what's causing his troubles; I suspect it isn't his imagination, so that makes me wonder what the cause is. As for the UI - well, I think everyone's aware of the situation there. For audio interface setting persistence, I see that is now improved in Pd-extended; don't know if that's a patch worth making to Vanilla. It's a question that comes up a lot, and I don't know enough about the state of that feature, but I'd be curious to know. Peter ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on analogindustries.com
I get asked by people if Pd is ever coming out of beta. On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 2:47 PM, Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca wrote: On Mon, 7 Mar 2011, Andy Farnell wrote: A trial version eh? Let's see how that comparison is working out in 30 days. I've been running a trial version of pd for 8 or 9 years now. I'm waiting for it to expire. ___ | Mathieu Bouchard tél: +1.514.383.3801 Villeray, Montréal, QC ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on analogindustries.com
On Mon, 7 Mar 2011, Peter Kirn wrote: Anyway, I understand now - Chris is complaining generally about stability, not about vst~. It's troubling, but he's not going into specifics, so it's hard to know how to respond. I am genuinely curious about what's causing his troubles; I suspect it isn't his imagination, so that makes me wonder what the cause is. As for the UI - well, I think everyone's aware of the situation there. Randomly disappearing boxes, and generally, canvas appearance that stops reflecting canvas content — wasn't that a big WINDOWS®-only bug in Pd a few years ago ? No idea what the problem was. Does that still happen to anyone ? For audio interface setting persistence, I see that is now improved in Pd-extended; don't know if that's a patch worth making to Vanilla. The more difficult it is to apply patches to Vanilla, the less it's worth applying patches to Vanilla. ___ | Mathieu Bouchard tél: +1.514.383.3801 Villeray, Montréal, QC ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on analogindustries.com
I just emailed Chris to see if he would send along crash logs and info. Maybe some bugs will get fixed from this. On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 2:50 PM, chris clepper cgclep...@gmail.com wrote: It's a missed opportunity for everyone involved. Here was a developer of audio plugins with a lot of experience who could have provided a lot of valuable feedback, but chose not to do so. It doesn't take that much time to fire off the crash log to the list or post something on Sourceforge, plus he would have a lot more direct interaction with the Pd developers. Could have been a mutually beneficial relationship. On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 2:04 PM, Peter Kirn pe...@createdigitalmedia.netwrote: Re-posting as my previous post got scrubbed - sorry, Thunderbird is convinced Pd-list archives are rich HTML. Doh. ;) Anyway, I understand now - Chris is complaining generally about stability, not about vst~. It's troubling, but he's not going into specifics, so it's hard to know how to respond. I am genuinely curious about what's causing his troubles; I suspect it isn't his imagination, so that makes me wonder what the cause is. As for the UI - well, I think everyone's aware of the situation there. For audio interface setting persistence, I see that is now improved in Pd-extended; don't know if that's a patch worth making to Vanilla. It's a question that comes up a lot, and I don't know enough about the state of that feature, but I'd be curious to know. Peter ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on analogindustries.com
On Mon, 7 Mar 2011, chris clepper wrote: I get asked by people if Pd is ever coming out of beta. Is that because of the version numbers ? They always begin with a zero. ___ | Mathieu Bouchard tél: +1.514.383.3801 Villeray, Montréal, QC ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on analogindustries.com
I never thought of that... cheers M On Mon, Mar 07, 2011 at 04:45:09PM -0500, Mathieu Bouchard wrote: On Mon, 7 Mar 2011, chris clepper wrote: I get asked by people if Pd is ever coming out of beta. Is that because of the version numbers ? They always begin with a zero. ___ | Mathieu Bouchard tél: +1.514.383.3801 Villeray, Montréal, QC ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on analogindustries.com
--- On Mon, 3/7/11, Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca wrote: From: Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca Subject: Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on analogindustries.com To: chris clepper cgclep...@gmail.com Cc: pd-list@iem.at Date: Monday, March 7, 2011, 10:45 PM On Mon, 7 Mar 2011, chris clepper wrote: I get asked by people if Pd is ever coming out of beta. Is that because of the version numbers ? They always begin with a zero. But Gridflow goes up to 9. So just make sure to install Gridflow with Pd, and you should then be able to instantiate up to nine simple objects without Pd randomly crashing on you: [import gridflow] [metro] | [metro] | [metro] | [metro] | [metro] | [metro] | [metro] | [metro] | [metro] | [metro] -- Warning: 10th metro object may crash Pd -Jonathan ___ | Mathieu Bouchard tél: +1.514.383.3801 Villeray, Montréal, QC -Inline Attachment Follows- ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on, analogindustries.com
On Mar 7, 2011, at 1:28 PM, Peter Kirn wrote: Okay, I'm with others here - what is Chris on this time? I can see three complaints: 1. Ugly UI (fine.) 2. Lack of persistence of audio interface settings. Actually, two comments here on that -- first, of course, you can set this as a command-line argument, which to me is the safest way to go. But secondly, maybe there's a reason Pd can't persist audio settings between sessions? No idea. Anyway, at best, his comment here is misleading. You can definite make persistent audio interface settings. The preferred way is to set them in your patch. IOhannes is currently making a 'mediasettings' library which will make this much easier. Otherwise see get-audio-dialog in the 'hcs' lib. .hc 3. Crashes Crashes ... where? As near as I can tell, this entire rant is about the stability of vst~. (Is vst~ even part of Vanilla?) Peter ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list 'You people have such restrictive dress for women,’ she said, hobbling away in three inch heels and panty hose to finish out another pink- collar temp pool day. - “Hijab Scene #2, by Mohja Kahf ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on analogindustries.com
On Mar 7, 2011, at 5:07 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: --- On Mon, 3/7/11, Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca wrote: From: Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca Subject: Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on analogindustries.com To: chris clepper cgclep...@gmail.com Cc: pd-list@iem.at Date: Monday, March 7, 2011, 10:45 PM On Mon, 7 Mar 2011, chris clepper wrote: I get asked by people if Pd is ever coming out of beta. Is that because of the version numbers ? They always begin with a zero. But Gridflow goes up to 9. So just make sure to install Gridflow with Pd, and you should then be able to instantiate up to nine simple objects without Pd randomly crashing on you: [import gridflow] [metro] | [metro] | [metro] | [metro] | [metro] | [metro] | [metro] | [metro] | [metro] | [metro] -- Warning: 10th metro object may crash Pd Wait, are you telling me that Pd doesn't got to 11?!? That must be fixed! But just created 10 linked metros and got no crash on Pd- extended 0.42.5 on Mac OSX 10.5.8. .hc You can't steal a gift. Bird gave the world his music, and if you can hear it, you can have it. - Dizzy Gillespie ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on analogindustries.com
On Mon, 7 Mar 2011, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: On Mar 7, 2011, at 5:07 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: But Gridflow goes up to 9. So just make sure to install Gridflow with Pd, and you should then be able to instantiate up to nine simple objects without Pd randomly crashing on you: Wait, are you telling me that Pd doesn't got to 11?!? That must be fixed! Sure. Just wait until April 1st and I'll release GridFlow 11.0. ___ | Mathieu Bouchard tél: +1.514.383.3801 Villeray, Montréal, QC ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on analogindustries.com
--- On Mon, 3/7/11, Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at wrote: From: Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at Subject: Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on analogindustries.com To: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com Cc: chris clepper cgclep...@gmail.com, Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca, pd-list@iem.at Date: Monday, March 7, 2011, 11:22 PM On Mar 7, 2011, at 5:07 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: --- On Mon, 3/7/11, Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca wrote: From: Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca Subject: Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on analogindustries.com To: chris clepper cgclep...@gmail.com Cc: pd-list@iem.at Date: Monday, March 7, 2011, 10:45 PM On Mon, 7 Mar 2011, chris clepper wrote: I get asked by people if Pd is ever coming out of beta. Is that because of the version numbers ? They always begin with a zero. But Gridflow goes up to 9. So just make sure to install Gridflow with Pd, and you should then be able to instantiate up to nine simple objects without Pd randomly crashing on you: [import gridflow] [metro] | [metro] | [metro] | [metro] | [metro] | [metro] | [metro] | [metro] | [metro] | [metro] -- Warning: 10th metro object may crash Pd Wait, are you telling me that Pd doesn't got to 11?!? That must be fixed! But just created 10 linked metros and got no crash on Pd-extended 0.42.5 on Mac OSX 10.5.8. Sorry, I should have put a disclaimer: complete hogwash! I was just referring to the blog that started this thread, where the complaint was that instantiating a simple [metro] object can crash Pd. I don't think it is true, nor do I think that there's a get-out-of-crash-free card for each integer above 0 in the GF numbering system. I made a patch once with a slider with range 0-11, but it only let you slide it up to 10, unless you click a [tgl] associated with it, to get one more. No matter what it's controlling, it's a lot of fun. -Jonathan .hc You can't steal a gift. Bird gave the world his music, and if you can hear it, you can have it. - Dizzy Gillespie ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on, analogindustries.com
On Mon, 7 Mar 2011, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: You can definite make persistent audio interface settings. The preferred way is to set them in your patch. Preferred by whom ? I can't picture anyone wanting to set anyone else's audio settings when they send someone else a patch. IOhannes is currently making a 'mediasettings' library which will make this much easier. Otherwise see get-audio-dialog in the 'hcs' lib. But how can I edit that in ~/.pdsettings, ~/.pdextended, or whatever it is on whatever platform it is ? ___ | Mathieu Bouchard tél: +1.514.383.3801 Villeray, Montréal, QC___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on, analogindustries.com
On Mar 7, 2011, at 6:19 PM, Mathieu Bouchard wrote: On Mon, 7 Mar 2011, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: You can definite make persistent audio interface settings. The preferred way is to set them in your patch. Preferred by whom ? I can't picture anyone wanting to set anyone else's audio settings when they send someone else a patch. I guess you don't work in anything but 44100 sampling rates. I have done projects that use 22050 and 48k, and both won't work right unless the sampling rate is set correctly. Therefore its an essential property of the patch. .hc IOhannes is currently making a 'mediasettings' library which will make this much easier. Otherwise see get-audio-dialog in the 'hcs' lib. But how can I edit that in ~/.pdsettings, ~/.pdextended, or whatever it is on whatever platform it is ? ___ | Mathieu Bouchard tél: +1.514.383.3801 Villeray, Montréal, QC http://at.or.at/hans/ ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on analogindustries.com
Randomly disappearing boxes, and generally, canvas appearance that stops reflecting canvas content — wasn't that a big WINDOWS®-only bug in Pd a few years ago ? No idea what the problem was. Does that still happen to anyone ? I've used Pd 99,% of my time in windows, and don't ever remember that happening. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on analogindustries.com
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 when i was giving a short Pd workshop in november there was a parallel session in maxMSP/jitter and one of those students came up to me and was complaining that MAX always crashed Pd didn't. just to throw in a equally unspecific report. Am 08.03.2011 um 01:33 schrieb Hans-Christoph Steiner: Hear hear! Sure, there are crasher bugs with Pd, but if you aren't even going to bother to report them, how can you expect them to be fixed? Most of the developers of Pd use Pd in their own work, and therefore are very likely to fix problems they encounter. I rarely encounter crasher bugs because I try to fix them when they happen to me. So that points to something else: the area where the Pd devs work are the area where Pd will work best. I don't know any Pd dev doing a lot with VSTs or even MIDI, so that is not where Pd is going to shine. .hc On Mar 7, 2011, at 12:23 PM, chris clepper wrote: A quick search of the mailing list and bug tracker don't reveal anything from Chris Randall. As a software developer he is no doubt aware that user bug reports are vital to fixing problems. I think he could have done a bit more to help his situation. On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 11:45 AM, pierlu pie...@gmail.com wrote: Hi everybody. I regularly read the blog @ analogindustries.com, and today an interesting post about pd vs max/msp stability on macintel appeared. You can read about it here http://www.analogindustries.com/blog/entry.php?blogid=1299508451902 To be honest, I always found pd on PPC macs to be fairly stable for my needs, and the author of the post (in comments) points out that on pc's pd is fairly stable too. So I just wanted to bring out the matter to the community, just for the sake of discussion. No hatred please! :) cheers, p. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list [W]e have invented the technology to eliminate scarcity, but we are deliberately throwing it away to benefit those who profit from scarcity. -John Gilmore ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) iEYEARECAAYFAk11hVsACgkQ3EB7kzgMM6KfdgCfcHLjxVioPoKDf5XMTQUJeg0f 6msAnjcztRMz8wK9i7Ag2MeThtXaM6BV =C9WF -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on analogindustries.com
On Tue, 8 Mar 2011, Max wrote: just to throw in a equally unspecific report. Yes. It's important to answer rumours using rumours. There's a prof who told me that she couldn't teach Pd, and it was because of its security holes. Then she also told me that Pd doesn't have any video support. After that she stopped answering emails. I also heard that MAX was so bad, there's a classroom where they had to ban Pd to ensure that it looked like buying MAX licenses had been a good investment. Much of MAX's popularity is due to vendor lock-in after cheap licenses had been dumped on students who happened to be taking courses that happened to require MAX. And of course, I mean MAX the software, not Max Neupert. ;) ___ | Mathieu Bouchard tél: +1.514.383.3801 Villeray, Montréal, QC___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on, analogindustries.com
On Mon, 7 Mar 2011, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: For Audio API (OSS, ALSA, etc.): You can choose the respective menu item, then set it up in the dialog window that pops up. Click Save all settings to... save all settings. Isn't that persistent audio interface settings? D'oh, yeah, but I don't notice it, as I still rely on commandline flags, shell-scripts and alias-commands. I knew it was somewhere... ;) Things I would normally set using the Media Menu: input devices, # of channels, whether or not to use multiple devices, delay. But delay is a kind of in-between : it's at once very machine-dependent and very patch-dependent. Some patches are meant for low-latency, and some patches have to be high-latency to prevent drop-outs, but the actual amount can't really be decided in advance in a machine-independent way. Things I would set using the Media Menu OR some kind of in-patch mechanism: sample rate Right. But are some soundcards and/or drivers limited to only certain sampling rates ? (Side note : I thought that my soundcard was quite limited, but now I try to find a limit to the sampling rate that I can set, and I can't find one...?) ___ | Mathieu Bouchard tél: +1.514.383.3801 Villeray, Montréal, QC ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on analogindustries.com
--- On Tue, 3/8/11, Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca wrote: From: Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca Subject: Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on analogindustries.com To: Max abonneme...@revolwear.com Cc: PD list pd-list@iem.at Date: Tuesday, March 8, 2011, 4:34 AM On Tue, 8 Mar 2011, Max wrote: just to throw in a equally unspecific report. Yes. It's important to answer rumours using rumours. There's a prof who told me that she couldn't teach Pd, and it was because of its security holes. I don't like the fact that every time I create an object in Pd, it is sent to the central Pd server which keeps logs of all the objects in our patches. I think Pd is selling the logs to third parties, because every time I part a stream of numbers I get tons of ads to the console window for Liberty University. -Jonathan Then she also told me that Pd doesn't have any video support. After that she stopped answering emails. I also heard that MAX was so bad, there's a classroom where they had to ban Pd to ensure that it looked like buying MAX licenses had been a good investment. Much of MAX's popularity is due to vendor lock-in after cheap licenses had been dumped on students who happened to be taking courses that happened to require MAX. And of course, I mean MAX the software, not Max Neupert. ;) ___ | Mathieu Bouchard tél: +1.514.383.3801 Villeray, Montréal, QC -Inline Attachment Follows- ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
