Herb Chong asked:
have you used any Canon IS equipment, particularly their binoculars? you
still haven't said anything that says a pendulum isn't an accelerometer. it
measures acceleration and does something. the gyros inside Olympus equipment
for IS also measure acceleration and does something.
Canon IS systems are described in detail at:
http://www.canon.com/technology/t_seihin/tech_dvcam.html
Under Variable Angle Prism one can read:
When the camera shake occurs, it is detected by the vibration sensor,
and the optimum correction value is calculated by the microcomputer.
With the
- Original Message -
From: Tom Reese [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, June 18, 2004 8:42 AM
Subject: Re: IS in Pentax *istD (was Re: canon vs pentax)
It is still my opinion that placing little accelerometers in the camera
body
to measure the amount and direction
Herb Chong asked:
since when isn't a pendulum an accelerometer?
pendulum: A body suspended from a fixed support so that it swings freely
back and forth under the influence of gravity, commonly used to regulate
various devices, especially clocks. Also called simple pendulum
accelerometer: An
Well, Leica went from the 39mm screw mount to the bayonette M mount on the RF's.
Though they produced both for about 10 years. The reflex mount has changed in
detail several times.
While Nikon has kept the same basic mount it too has changed in detail, and the
newest lenses will not work on
- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: canon vs pentax
as to keep people with good old Pentax lenses from
selling them in disgust and buying Canon.
Sure, that would be the same Canon that completely abandoned their
user base once already?
At least Pentax
the
years, every Leica lens made for the SLR will work on newer cameras.
Shel
[Original Message]
From: graywolf [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 6/17/2004 5:04:15 AM
Subject: Re: canon vs pentax
Well, Leica went from the 39mm screw mount to the bayonette M mount on
the RF's
Hi Bill I'm far from well-versed in the two cam / three cam scenario,
but I do believe that the lenses can be used interchangeably, and that
simply modifications can be made to the two cam lenses to allow them to be
used in three cam bodies. IOW, while I may have some details wrong, the
as to keep people with good old Pentax lenses from
selling them in disgust and buying Canon.
The moderator of the Nikon D1 BB has switched to the Canon Mark II.Wonder what that
signifies.??
Dave
I think we also agree that dropping M42 mount was the
right choice for Pentax. The bayonet mount is much
easier (faster) to use, imo. And I'm not sure you can
make M42 AF lensesbodies...
Alex Sarbu
--- William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Actually, the M42 mount was smaller and harder to
OK, the last time I replied to this list I did it all wrong and added
unnecessarily to length of the response.
Subject: Re: canon vs pentax
With Nikon, there is the AI lens compatability issue, then there are
all sorts of issues surrounding whether a particular lens will meter
or even allow
On 17 Jun 2004 at 9:17, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The moderator of the Nikon D1 BB has switched to the Canon Mark II.Wonder what
that signifies.??
I guess that he/she had very little $$$ invested in Nikon glass or he/she has
pockets full of spare cash?
Rob Studdert
HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA
Tel
On 17 Jun 2004 at 9:17, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
The moderator of the Nikon D1 BB has switched to the Canon Mark II.Wonder what
that signifies.??
Then Rob Studdert said:
I guess that he/she had very little $$$ invested in Nikon glass or he/she has
Earlier John Mustarde [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So what did she buy for
an upgrade from the ME Super? Canon Rebel. Kit... Now, a couple of years
later, she has added the Digital Rebel as her primary camera, which came
with an 18-55 kit lens.
Since part of this thread talks about lens
That's right - it's a new mount, EF-S (as opposed to the normal EF mount)
David
My local camera dealer was lamenting that the Canon 18-55mm zoom that
comes with the 300D will only fit the 300D.
- Original Message -
From: George Sinos
Subject: Re: canon vs pentax
My local camera dealer was lamenting that the Canon 18-55mm zoom
that comes
with the 300D will only fit the 300D. You can't put it on a 10D or
any of
the other canon bodies. It has something to do with some sort
, June 17, 2004 7:21 AM
Subject: Re: IS in Pentax *istD (was Re: canon vs pentax)
The above is based on the IS explanation in the Canon lens guide.
An accelerometer based system would measure the camera movement and
calculate the required compensation then servo motors (or some other type
This is true. Think of it as the Canon version of the DA mount.
The major difference is that with the DA mount, you can use it on a
film body, provided you don't mind a cropped negative.
I believe the 16-45 will actually cover the 35mm neg from around 24mm
and longer.
Indeed, except Canon already
- Original Message -
From: Peter Loveday
Subject: Re: canon vs pentax
Indeed, except Canon already have non-full frame DSLRs (10D, D60,
D30 etc)
that their new mount will _not_ work on.
Of course, one could say they'll work on as many previous Canon
DSLRs before
the 300D, as DA
Indeed, except Canon already have non-full frame DSLRs (10D, D60,
D30 etc)
that their new mount will _not_ work on.
Of course, one could say they'll work on as many previous Canon
DSLRs before
the 300D, as DA lenses will on Pentax DSLRs before the *istD
Umm, Peter, did you not just contradict
Saturday I've plans to look at the Canon digitals. I'll try to remember to
let folks know if this is so.
Shel
[Original Message]
From: George Sinos [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Since part of this thread talks about lens compatibility I'll toss this
in
here. (Don't remember if it's been said
Yep. A friend of mine has one. Spent 5 minutes trying to jam it onto on my
10D.
tv
-Original Message-
From: David Nelson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2004 7:05 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: canon vs pentax
That's right - it's a new mount, EF-S
George,
Yes, it's true, the 300D/Digital Rebel 18-55mm won't fit on any other
camera. The lens on the body in the showcase at work has a plastic ring
that prevents it from being mounted on a regular body. Without that
ring, its back lens element comes so far back that in a regular (film)
EOS
lens elements.
Love, Light and Peace,
- Peter Loveday
Director of Development, eyeon Software
- Original Message -
From: Jordan R. Urie [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, June 18, 2004 2:35 PM
Subject: Re: canon vs pentax
George,
Yes, it's true, the 300D/Digital Rebel
That's correct, but some users filed it off to fit other cameras.
Alan Chan
ICQ: 42516180
http://www.pbase.com/wlachan
Earlier John Mustarde [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So what did she buy for
an upgrade from the ME Super? Canon Rebel. Kit... Now, a couple of years
later, she has added the Digital
Herb Chong wrote this in response to my speculation on how image
stabilization could be done:
that's how it's done in Nikon and Canon and how IS binoculars from various
vendors work too. software implementations require sensors and image
processors far faster than can be reasonably powered right
since when isn't a pendulum an accelerometer?
Herb
- Original Message -
From: Tom Reese [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 7:42 AM
Subject: Re: IS in Pentax *istD (was Re: canon vs pentax)
I think you misunderstood the context of what I wrote
as to keep people with good old Pentax lenses from
selling them in disgust and buying Canon.
Sure, that would be the same Canon that completely abandoned their
user base once already?
At least Pentax doesn't have that in their history.
William Robb
No? My M 28/2.0 cannot be persuaded to fit
i don't see why it would, esp if IS is done in the body.
Herb...
- Original Message -
From: Peter Loveday [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, June 14, 2004 11:54 PM
Subject: Re: canon vs pentax
Hmm, so... does IS/VR somehow require USM?
Hmm, so... does IS/VR somehow require USM?
That depends I think. The reason is that both the mechanical aperture
linkage AF shaft require specific spaces inside the Pentax lenses. They
are straight phyically, and cannot be bended out of the way and still
expected to work. For this reason, the
Alan Chan wrote:
To achieve IS/VR/AS, the camera or the lens must be able to detect their
own
movement, and obviousely *istD doesn't have any. For this reason, the
firmware idea doesn't work.
Alan, I don't know why the camera or lens would have to detect movement.
That would require some type
On 04.6.15 11:16 AM, Tom Reese [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Alan, I don't know why the camera or lens would have to detect movement.
That would require some type of accelerometers and would be a finicky cludge
IMO.
I do not pretend to know much about how they achieve IS effect, but I
remember
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 17:04:46 -0400
From: Paul Stenquist [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: canon vs pentax
Message-Id: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
On Jun 12, 2004, at 2:18 PM, Jens Bladt
- Original Message -
From:
Subject: Re: canon vs pentax
as to keep people with good old Pentax lenses from
selling them in disgust and buying Canon.
Sure, that would be the same Canon that completely abandoned their
user base once already?
At least Pentax doesn't have
On 15/6/04, KEN T, discombobulated, offered:
I do not pretend to know much about how they achieve IS effect, but I
remember reading an article somewhere which said that the Canon style
in-lens IS has two small gyros to detect X/Y axis movement, and the required
lens shift amount is computed and
Hmm, so... does IS/VR somehow require USM?
I would think it requires at least internal power in the lens. Humm..? But
so did power zoom, didn't it?
Indeed, good point And the powerzoom contacts are, of course, not
present on the *istD
Love, Light and Peace,
- Peter Loveday
Director of
PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 11:16 AM
Subject: RE: IS in Pentax *istD (was Re: canon vs pentax)
Alan, I don't know why the camera or lens would have to detect movement.
That would require some type of accelerometers and would be a finicky
cludge
IMO. Software implementation of image
On 13 Jun 2004 at 18:12, Alan Chan wrote:
If the baby *istD had aperture simulator lever, we would know for certain
there would not be any USM or IS in the near future. Personally, I believe it
will not have it because all the DA lenses have none, so why the baby D?
Please explain why the
on 14.06.04 13:33, Frantisek Vlcek at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Interesting lenses. But one has to note that the DOF of 150/2 is still
that of a 150mm f/2 lens, and the lack of good noise at higher
iso means that it is just the same. At least I think so.
Yes and no :-) COC (circle of confusion)
on 14.06.04 13:52, Rob Studdert at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Please explain why the inclusion of an aperture simulator lever would preclude
the addition of IS?
Exactly - Nikon 80-400 VR has both - aperture simulator and IS :-)
--
Best Regards
Sylwek
On 14 Jun 2004 at 13:33, Frantisek Vlcek wrote:
Interesting lenses. But one has to note that the DOF of 150/2 is still
that of a 150mm f/2 lens, and the lack of good noise at higher
iso means that it is just the same.
Unfortunately the E-1 sensor noise is pretty poor compared to most DSLRs
:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sendt: 14. juni 2004 00:19
Til: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Emne: Re: canon vs pentax
You can't argue with the conspiracy theorists, but I think they've
got the significance of the decisions in totally the wrong order.
I very much doubt that lens sales enters into the decision-making
: Monday, June 14, 2004 2:10 PM
Subject: Re: canon vs pentax
On 14 Jun 2004 at 13:33, Frantisek Vlcek wrote:
Interesting lenses. But one has to note that the DOF of 150/2 is still
that of a 150mm f/2 lens, and the lack of good noise at higher
iso means that it is just the same
There is also digital stabilization as used on many video cameras (Canon and
Sony use otical stab. AFAIK all the rest use digital). It is just a matter of
shifting the pixel scan, no moving parts.
--
KT Takeshita wrote:
On 04.6.13 11:19 PM, Tom Reese [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
If the lens is
That only works to prevent frame-to-frame jitter in video sequences.
It doesn't help with a single-frame exposure.
There is also digital stabilization as used on many video cameras (Canon and
Sony use otical stab. AFAIK all the rest use digital). It is just a matter of
shifting the pixel
I suppose bird shooters would love the 300/2 which is practically 600/2.
Just imagine how big the 600/4 is for 135.
Regards,
Alan Chan
http://www.pbase.com/wlachan
Interesting lenses. But one has to note that the DOF of 150/2 is still
that of a 150mm f/2 lens, and the lack of good noise at
Is there any reason IS couldn't be implemented in software? You could produce a 5MP
image from a 6MP sensor by using the extra pixels to shift the image. You'd need to
measure the movement of the camera, which could be done using a sensor of some sort in
the body, or could conceivably be done
On Mon, 14 Jun 2004, Nick Clark wrote:
Is there any reason IS couldn't be implemented in software? You
could produce a 5MP image from a 6MP sensor by using the extra
pixels to shift the image. You'd need to measure the movement of
the camera, which could be done using a sensor of some sort
they most definitely do in their PS cameras. they were the first company i
know of to release a digital PS with IS.
Herb
- Original Message -
From: Dario Bonazza [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, June 14, 2004 6:49 AM
Subject: Re: canon vs pentax
Olympus does
PM
Subject: IS in Pentax *istD (was Re: canon vs pentax)
Is there any reason IS couldn't be implemented in software? You could
produce a 5MP image from a 6MP sensor by using the extra pixels to shift the
image. You'd need to measure the movement of the camera, which could be done
using a sensor
they most definitely do in their PS cameras. they were the first company i
know of to release a digital PS with IS.
Which model was it? I know Nikon did have a film PS with some IS capability
many years ago, but never noticed Olympus had one.
Regards,
Alan Chan
http://www.pbase.com/wlachan
To achieve IS/VR/AS, the camera or the lens must be able to detect their own
movement, and obviousely *istD doesn't have any. For this reason, the
firmware idea doesn't work.
Regards,
Alan Chan
http://www.pbase.com/wlachan
Is there any reason IS couldn't be implemented in software? You could
: canon vs pentax
they most definitely do in their PS cameras. they were the first company
i
know of to release a digital PS with IS.
Which model was it? I know Nikon did have a film PS with some IS
capability
many years ago, but never noticed Olympus had one.
, June 15, 2004 9:55 AM
Subject: Re: canon vs pentax
i don't remember anymore. it was about 3 years ago. i know because a friend
of mine bought it specifically for the IS capability and talked about it a
lot.
Herb...
- Original Message -
From: Alan Chan [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED
This is not a new technology, similar systems were used by camcorder
manufacturers for a while now. A large CCD uses just a portion of its
surface area at a time to capture video image. This system does not produce
high quality still image and that is why it is not used in still cameras. It
is
Hmm, so... does IS/VR somehow require USM?
Love, Light and Peace,
- Peter Loveday
- Original Message -
From: Alan Chan [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 5:57 AM
Subject: Re: canon vs pentax
Exactly - Nikon 80-400 VR has both - aperture simulator
On 15 Jun 2004 at 13:24, Peter Loveday wrote:
Hmm, so... does IS/VR somehow require USM?
Maybe Pentax lenses would have to be built the diameter of Canon IS lenses in
order to accommodate the IS mech as I am sure that the space required to
accommodate the mechanical linkage problem is easy to
photographs from each of the two cameras at least have very different price
tags.
Jens Bladt
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://hjem.get2net.dk/bladt
-Oprindelig meddelelse-
Fra: Rob Studdert [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sendt: 15. juni 2004 06:14
Til: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Emne: Re: canon vs pentax
Peter J. Alling wrote:
Saturn ranked #2 behind Infinity in 2003, that does seem to be a
combination of car and dealership satisfaction however.
That's as I recall it.
Mine is a 1999 and it's been an excellent car!
When the dealer was only 5 miles away, it was a good place to take my
car. Auto
:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sendt: 13. juni 2004 17:00
Til: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Emne: Re: canon vs pentax
Actually I think leaving out compatibility was a marketing decision,
(the engineers probably had the mount
designed with a aperture simulator lever), the marketeers said, if they
can't use old lenses they'll
Or it might be true that all new Pentax lenses would have no aperture ring
so that they could produce IS/USM in the near future.
Regards,
Alan Chan
http://www.pbase.com/wlachan
Actually I think leaving out compatibility was a marketing decision, (the
engineers probably had the mount
designed
If the baby *istD had aperture simulator lever, we would know for certain
there would not be any USM or IS in the near future. Personally, I believe
it will not have it because all the DA lenses have none, so why the baby D?
Regards,
Alan Chan
http://www.pbase.com/wlachan
If this happened
- Original Message -
From: Jens Bladt
Subject: RE: canon vs pentax
Well spoken, Peter!
Next step - the expected low cost Baby *ist D should have the aperture
simulator lever, since it's aimed at consumers, with less money to spend
on
a digital body as well as new lenses.
Don't
KT Takeshita played with his extremely optimistic version of the magic 8
ball and proclaimed:
In-camera movement compensation is physically impossible with film camera
(even I can tell. Didn't Leica or Contax try it before? :-). But with a
small and light CCD element, suddenly the movement
On 04.6.13 11:19 PM, Tom Reese [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
If the lens is moving and the sensor is stationary then what
would the captured image look like? I would think that in camera
stabilization would require some type of stabilizing lens element in front
of the sensor rather than
: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Emne: Re: canon vs pentax
You can't argue with the conspiracy theorists, but I think they've
got the significance of the decisions in totally the wrong order.
I very much doubt that lens sales enters into the decision-making
procedure; the fact that there may be some new lens
. juni 2004 00:19
Til: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Emne: Re: canon vs pentax
You can't argue with the conspiracy theorists, but I think they've
got the significance of the decisions in totally the wrong order.
I very much doubt that lens sales enters into the decision-making
procedure; the fact
Or Mercedes vs. Volkswagen.
I'm not saying which car is to be copmpared to which camera brand. But in my
country 85% of all taxies (professional cars) are from Mercedes Benz.
Jens Bladt
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://hjem.get2net.dk/bladt
-Oprindelig meddelelse-
Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Jun 12, 2004, at 2:18 PM, Jens Bladt wrote:
Over the years,
Pentax may well have put out more, and the interoperability across
generations has only recently been compromised.
In what way? With the new firmware, the K and M lenses can be used on
the *ist D with what amounts to ap priority
Re JD Power: Where does Saturn fall? Or, do you have a URL?
keith
Paul Stenquist wrote:
On Jun 12, 2004, at 2:18 PM, Jens Bladt wrote:
Over the years,
Pentax may well have put out more, and the interoperability across
generations has only recently been compromised.
In what way? With the new
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