Without trying to get into the specific debating points in this thread,
I find the unreality of the debate to be numbing. There are a number of
points that I think we can all agree on.
1. That there is a growing threat that global warming is a real and
imminent danger.
2. That global warming
--- Yoshie Furuhashi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
At 10:29 PM -0500 4/10/04, dmschanoes wrote:
the fighters in the streets demanding the
withdrawal of US forces
It is understandable that secular Communists are
weary of fighters
inspired by their religious faith, as the latter may
not have any
* Friday, March 5, 2004
In '72 speech, a different kind of Kerry
By Matthew Kelly, The Dartmouth Staff
Probable Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry will likely face
a challenge on the left from Ralph Nader soon, but 32 years ago,
Kerry showered his possible electoral spoiler with
Point of information:
Iranian workers, organized into workers' councils in the petroleum
sector were instrumental in making the relatively peaceful political
revolution against the Shah a success through the strikes they
enforced. They were rewarded with death for their unity with the
religious
These forwards are valuable, and I agree with the cautious way Mike
expresses preferences. One of the lessons of internationalism in the
20th century was that whatever your leanings real internationalism
requires some due modesty when you youreself are not directly in the
front line.
The global
Agree with number 1. Not sure on no.2 (think coal and biomass may be
more contributory than oil).
Totally disagree with First the world is overpopulated... and
everything following that.
Apocalyptic Malthusianism is a dismal science.
dms
- Original Message -
From: paul phillips
MB is absolutely correct. But blocing with fundamentalists is not the
issue, no more than blocing with the Taliban was the content, meaning or
program of fighting the US invasion of Afghanistan.
The issue isfirst, the recognition that the actual struggle going on has
social, not religious
Soula: "Jones was not
only right.. his little peace on the castration of Japanese capital was one
good piece of Leninist analysis"
Could someone give me a link to that please?
Thx,
Hari
Let's see: the fighters in the streets demanding the withdrawal of US
forces are actually hoping for an extension of US dominated occupation
by displacing other democratic forces that opposed Saddam all along?
What other democratic forces-- those that now sit on the US dominated
governing council?
I disagree that this is the only way. The fact is that the ICP is at the
forefront of the reorganization of the working-class movement in Iraq. It
has led the process of organizing the IFTU, which has come under attack by
the US forces. It has called for the inclusion of Arab nationalist, secular
I too am safely tucked away here in the U.S. I made no claim to be
anywhere
else. But I think my point that brave intellectuals in the west who seem
to
support anything and everything that seems anti-imperalist because it is
violent has been made.
Joel
__
Like the Holy Roman
Avoid being instrumental, i.e. instrumental to success of others.
Communists have to get involved in the struggle against the
occupation and become leaders of it. Unless they can do that, they
are goners.
--
Yoshie
Who says they are not involved in the struggle against the occupation?
Last comment on this. The mobilization of the general population into
open combat against an occupying army, and/or its private equivalents,
is fundamentally different than terrorist bombings. It is the
eruption of the social struggle beyond the limits of both stabilizing
and destabilizing
(About five years ago Bill Moyers had a show on PBS that dealt with the
impact of economic crisis on some working-class families. One of them was a
house painter from Long Island who could not afford a house in his local
community and who moved to the Poconos where housing was more affordable.
the sprawl was also encouraged by the government, with the interstate highway system
(in then 1950s and after) and earlier infrastructural investment. -- JD
-Original Message-
From: Michael Perelman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sat 4/10/2004 9:46 PM
Which just goes to show the links between the military-construction-real
estate-sprawl-white flight industry as the interstate highway system was
the creation of the National Interstate Highway for Defense (think that
was the title of the original legislation) Act. And the wastefulness of
the
Julio Huato wrote:
If the Arabs control the oil in their soil, they still need to sell it at a
price the buyers can accept.
I don't really get the argument that the U.S. would enjoy a great
windfall from the control of Iraqi oil. Say the occupation manages
to pacify the country and U.S.-based
Joel Wendland wrote:
I too am safely tucked away here in the U.S. I made no claim to be anywhere
else. But I think my point that brave intellectuals in the west who seem to
support anything and everything that seems anti-imperalist because it is
violent has been made.
The content of support
it was called the National System of Interstate and Defense Highways. The idea was
partly based on Hitler's use of the autobahns to fight a two-front war.
Jim D.
-Original Message-
From: dmschanoes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sun 4/11/2004 9:52 AM
The meeting was chaired by Harry Barnes MP and attended by Rob Marris MP and
Kelvin Hopkins MP as well as Robert G. Smith for Ann Clwyd, the Prime
Minister's human rights envoy to Iraq and Alan Lloyd, for Liberal Democrat
MP Mike Hancock, John Crowley of the Daily Telegraph, Eric Lee of
notes from life in Southern California:
1. Surreal: when I drive to or from work, I pass a pizza parlor which has very strange
slogans on their sign. This week's one said Eat More Pizza Right Meow.
2. Sinister: across Pacific Coast Highway from the pizza place, is the fundamentalist
Hope
The IFTU streed(sic) that the ILO should be fully involved in writing a new
labour law in Iraq, in consultation with the IFTU.
The delegation also visited the IFTU headquarters, which was raided by the
US military in December 2003 and which is still closed.
The delegation concluded: The
Devine, James wrote:
notes from life in Southern California:
I remember from the '30s a sign in a yard in the village of Millburg,
Michigan:
Repent ye and therefore be saved
Electrical Repairing Did
Carrol
When I lived in Kalamzoo, Mich. in the late 80s, we
would see a sign on the road to Ann Arbor (which we
visited often, K being what it was), advertising a
Christian motel: Prepare to meet thy God! was the
slogan. Hmmm, that's inviting.
On the North shore of Chicago is a hopital called
April 11, 2004/New York TIMES
In Debate Over Housing Bubble, a Winner Also Loses
By DAVID CAY JOHNSTON
Hhttp://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/dropcap/h.gif OUSING prices have been rising
significantly faster than the rate of inflation for eight years. Is it time to worry
about the B
Of course a certain fraction of US capital would benefit most from control
of Iraqi oil. But as the PNA and other neo-con sites make clear control of
energy resources is crucial to the continued hegemony of the US. Why do you
think that countries such as Japan are kissing US ass in Iraq in spite
k hanly wrote:
Of course a certain fraction of US capital would benefit most from control
of Iraqi oil. But as the PNA and other neo-con sites make clear control of
energy resources is crucial to the continued hegemony of the US.
They say that, but does that make it true? They're more of an
it may be good luck if the scare-mongers are correct that we're going to run out of
oil soon, since that would limit the burning of hydrocarbons and moderate the tendency
toward global warmng. -- Jim D.
-Original Message-
From: paul phillips [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
In a message dated 4/10/2004 7:23:03 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
The world sewage system - even in the most modern countries, is configured on the basis of man existing in a pathological condition (embedded with ancient and modern forms of property expressed in our
That was a piece on that list a while back...
I have been folowing the oil issue here and there. I know that MJ use tohave much to say on the topic. I have read articles pro and con of the forthcoming hubbert peak, in th end it appeared to me as the differences were more to do with the timing. ie
The news in London this evening is that most of the hostages are going
to be released and that there will be a cease fire in Falluja. Channel
4 News had an interview with a spokesman of the Iraq Governing Council
Hamid Alefey (?) who openly criticised the US, presumably on behalf of
the IGC for
Yes, Jim, although if as some are suggesting we shift from oil to coal,
the problem will get worse, not better. Furthermore, it does nothing to
solve the population pressure on other resources, in particular water.
Paul
Devine, James wrote:
it may be good luck if the scare-mongers are correct
- Original Message -
From: Chris Burford [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2004 2:45 PM
Subject: [PEN-L] one up to al-Sadri
Interveners on the IGC, perhaps including the Iraq Communist Party,
have clawed some influence. and al Sadri has succeeded in building
Third World Resistance and Western Intellectual
Solidarity
by James Petras
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
April 7, 2004 ICH -- Falluja, Baghdad, Ramadi,
Nasiriya--an entire people has risen to confront the
colonial occupation army, its mercenaries, clients,
and collaborators. First in massive peaceful
This sort of drivel reminds me why the U.S. left is so insulated
from political power.
mbs
Third World Resistance and Western Intellectual
Solidarity
by James Petras
In a message dated 4/11/2004 1:46:58 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Fourth, all this talk about having a revolution and allowing changes inproperty relations to solve the overpopulation/overconsumption/pollition-global warming is hopeless dreaming. Not only were the
Ok, so I broke my promise, but... this is too much.. And it proves
exactly my points. The scarcity theorists are Malenthusiasts at the
bone, concerned about nothing so much as the old in and out, who gets to
reproduce and who gets cut.
There's nothing good or lucky if the scare-mongers are
Max:
This sort of drivel reminds me why the U.S. left
is so insulated from political power.
mbs
As an outsider who has the chance to observe from
within, I don't think this is the reason.
The American left doesn't have anything to offer to
the American people, most of whom are
In a message dated 4/11/2004 2:57:47 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Yes, Jim, although if as some are suggesting we shift from oil to coal,the problem will get worse, not better. Furthermore, it does nothing tosolve the population pressure on other resources, in particular
Sabri Oncu wrote:
Max:
This sort of drivel reminds me why the U.S. left
is so insulated from political power.
mbs
As an outsider who has the chance to observe from
within, I don't think this is the reason.
The American left doesn't have anything to offer to
the American people, most of whom
I think that millions of working people in the US are deeply troubled about
the war in Iraq. But they lack any kind of progressive mindset to give
this unease meaning and to guide them to action. Might note decades of support
for imperialism (and its attendant racism and belief in the
dmschanoes wrote:
Seems that this is the opening moment in a period of great potential for
a real social revolutionary movement-- if it can articulate a program
[CLIP]-
and a moment of great danger if [CLIP
Whichever if eventuates is beyond the reach of world progressives to
affect. With
I should have written "might not decades of support for imperialism . .
by organized labor..."
Michael Yates
- Original Message -
From: MICHAEL YATES
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2004 2:55
PM
Subject: Re: [PEN-L] Third World
Resistance and Western
I wish that Petras as well as those who criticize him
would begin the engage workers. Labor education is a
good place to start.
Michael Yates
- Original Message -
From: Doug Henwood
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2004 2:39 PM
Subject: Re: [PEN-L] Third World Resistance
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Comment
There are not too many people on earth and one has
to examine the source of their thinking. When challenged to define the carrying
capacity of the earth, what we end up talking about is economics and not
the physical mass of the earth
paul phillips wrote:
Since I disagree totally with this, there is not much point in
carrying on the debate. But as Max has said, it is ideas like this
that explains why the left has never made much headway in North
America.
I'm confused. Are you saying that the left would be more popular if
we
Excuse me, knowing I will unsubbed by the
moderator, still -- this is a bad joke. An academic is telling Brother
Melvin, one of the core members of the most important working
classorganization in the USsince the CIO, the League of
Revolutionary Black Workers, that it's ideas like Melvin's
- - . But as the PNA and other neo-con sites make clear control
of
energy resources is crucial to the continued hegemony of the US.
They say that, but does that make it true? They're more of an
extremist group of think-tankers than the organic intellectuals of
the capitalist class.
Doug Henwood wrote:
I'm confused. Are you saying that the left would be more popular if
we said there are too many people, and the too many of us consume too
much?
Doug
No, what I said , or at least what I meant to say, was that this belief
that all the problems are caused by property relations
I received this message from a fellow worker. I
thought those interested in progressive economics
might find the critique of interest.
Regards,
Mike B)
***
http://www.wsws.org
ran a four-part series on the legacy of Paul Sweezy
this past
http://www.swans.com/
April 12, 2004 -- In this issue:
Note from the Editor: The notion that one has to destroy a village to save
it,
put forth repeatedly by the United States to justify its long history of
destructive and self-serving military endeavors, revealed itself most
recently in
Iraq.
At 11:59 AM -0400 4/11/04, Doug Henwood wrote:
So they capture some rents that would otherwise go to the Iraqi
national oil company. Good for the oil companies involved, but how
much would that help other sectors of U.S. capital?
It doesn't, but imperialism has never benefited all sectors of
At 2:55 PM -0700 4/11/04, MICHAEL YATES wrote:
I think that millions of working people in the US are deeply
troubled about the war in Iraq. But they lack any kind of
progressive mindset to give this unease meaning and to guide them to
action.
We might take a look at W. E. B. DuBois' _John Brown_
k hanly wrote:
The Japanese know that access to energy resources is essential for their
capitalists and the US knows the same.
Access to food is essential for people in Brooklyn. There's some food
stored in supermarkets, grocery stores, etc. But usually we don't steal it.
We buy it at the
I'd love to reply to Paul's detailed argument. I regret that he decides not
to engage. Hopefully we'll continue the conversation at another time.
Julio
_
Charla con tus amigos en línea mediante MSN Messenger:
By Stanley Holmes and Wendy Zellner
Business Week
APRIL 12, 2004
The Costco Way Higher wages mean higher profits. But try telling Wall
Street
Costco Wholesale Corp. (COST ) handily beat Wall Street expectations on
Mar. 3, posting a 25% profit gain in its most recent quarter on top of a
14% sales
Yoshie Furuhashi wrote:
It doesn't, but imperialism has never benefited all sectors of
capitalists in the imperial metropolis.
One sector is a long way short of all sectors.
Doug
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