Engels, Marx, Value and Communism

2002-02-02 Thread Waistline2
I happen to be one who believes that there exists a difference in articulation - not substance, between Frederick Engels and Karl Marx approach to value and embrace the reshaping of the theory of value in the hands of Marx. Nevertheless, both were revolutionaries approaching the emancipation

Re: Hand and mass producted - value

2002-02-02 Thread Waistline2
The Hand built Car Value is the amount of socially necessary labor borne in the production of commodities. All production is subject to this law and faces the downward pressure of this law in the world of commodities. Hand built automobiles - as commodities, must conform more than less, in

Re: Re: Engels, Marx, Value and Communism

2002-02-04 Thread Waistline2
Engels misunderstood Marx's value theory, especially Marx's explanation of money-form of commodity as physically accountable entity, but Marx explains social, homogenous labor firstly as imaginary or ideal product. Below is borrowed from Capital I do not disagee that there existed a difference

Re: Re: Re: Re: value and price: a dissenting note

2002-02-04 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 2/2/2002 11:19:00 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: on 2/3/02 10:39 AM, Michael Perelman at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Miyachi's solution is not so simple. You have a new computer. Some of the value will be transferred to the product today. You have no idea

Re: Re: Engels, Marx, Value and Communism

2002-02-04 Thread Waistline2
It is not that Engels misunderstood Marx. Marx unfolded a new law system. Engels agreed to the best of his ability. To continue. MIYACHI TATSUO PSYCHIATRIC DEPARTMENT KOMAKI MUNICIPAL HOSPITAL KOMAKI CITY AICHI Pre. JAPAN [EMAIL PROTECTED] Below is from Capital The specific economic form,

(no subject)

2002-02-04 Thread Waistline2
It is not that Engels misunderstood Marx. Marx unfolded a new law system. Marx ame first. Engels agreed to the best of his ability. To continue. MIYACHI TATSUO PSYCHIATRIC DEPARTMENT KOMAKI MUNICIPAL HOSPITAL KOMAKI CITY AICHI Pre. JAPAN [EMAIL PROTECTED] Below is from Capital The specific

Re: : value and auto:definitive

2002-02-05 Thread Waistline2

Re: Re: : value and price:definitive

2002-02-05 Thread Waistline2
Auto Figures and Value: What's in your wallet? The definitive Marxist Understanding of Value Melvin P Detroit: The figures - production units and profit estimates are slowly coming in and by the months end should tell the story of the USNA based auto industry. Cut-rate loans and discounts

Re: RE: Re: value vs. price

2002-02-05 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 2/5/2002 8:59:14 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: As Cornel West's analysis of Marx's take on morality suggests, Marx applied the standards of "bourgeois right" (trading at price = value) to show that capitalist violates _its own standards_. Marx clearly had

Re: value and price: a dissenting note

2002-02-05 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 2/5/2002 11:57:50 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Suppose that you are looking at the value circulating in the economy today. How would you value the constant capital values found in the commodities produced? That will depend on whether the constant

Re: Re: Argentina and money/reform

2002-02-06 Thread Waistline2
Dialectics of Reform and Revolution in Argentina Melvin P Marx standpoint, or rather vision has always been that of man in his actual or apparent circumstances of life, his pains, suffering, longings, material activity and spiritual dimensions. Man dominates Marx vision from beginning to

Re: Re: Value talk/Engels Marx

2002-02-07 Thread Waistline2
Note: The human eye cannot see emergence, or rather the outbreak of crisis is witnessed at its second phase. Hence, prediction based on the law system discovered by Karl Marx 150 years ago. The capitalistic mode of production moves in these two forms of the antagonism immanent to it from

Re: African American History Month

2002-02-07 Thread Waistline2
4. AFRICAN AMERICAN HISTORY MONTH: NEW RACISM BASED ON CLASS, NOT COLOR By Nelson Peery African American History Month, 2002 is celebrated in the midst of economic, social and political changes that are reshaping our world. The African Americans, along with the rest of the American people,

Re: New under the Son

2002-02-07 Thread Waistline2
Class-consciousness and the fundamentality of value Class-consciousness means awareness of how classes fight for their material survival in society. Classes are delineated in their general features on the basis of one relation to property and property is ownership of things by which the

Re: Historical Materialism

2002-02-08 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 2/8/2002 10:01:20 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The measurement of the capital stock is in impossibility. Franklin Fisher once worked up the requirements for aggregation. Can't be done! The inability to calculate real depreciation presents another

Re: method of economy

2002-02-09 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 2/8/2002 10:49:51 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Alternatively Marx insisted that scientific method to analyze concrete society must be began from abstract category, and ascending to shape of concrete society (Engels modified title of Capital as "process

Re: i forgot

2002-02-09 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 2/9/2002 3:22:22 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I forgot to clarify Adam smith, Ricardo's deficit . They all can't understand value-form. Although they reached to source of value, but they failed to prove How value appeared as value-form, in which highest

Re: TRIUMPH OF THE MARX METHOD PART 1

2002-02-12 Thread Waistline2
2/Triumph of the method of Marx General Overview part 1 Melvin P. The triumph of what is fundamentally an intellectual movement proceeding from the assumptions and conclusions of Karl Marx and Frederick Engels is so absolute in its resounding victory that no one in modern society can

Re: Triumph of Marx method/2

2002-02-12 Thread Waistline2
2/Triumph of the method of Marx General Overview part 2 Melvin P. The place of antagonism in contradiction or rather the development of contradiction as movement in antagonism has been the cliff from which man Marxist theorist leaped to their theoretical death. Under our current conditions

Re:Confessions of a Bourgeois Politician/Banker

2002-02-12 Thread Waistline2
The New York Review of Books February 28, 2002 Feature The Betrayal of Capitalism By Felix G. Rohatyn During my nearly four years as ambassador to France I frequently gave a speech I called Popular Capitalism in America to audiences throughout France. This is a subject of intense interest to

Re: Re: RE: A Future for Marxism?

2002-02-12 Thread Waistline2
A Future for Marxism? (Was: Wishful thinking) by Justin Schwartz 12 February 2002 04:30 UTC The argument is historical, and is available to anyone who has eyes in his head. In the era of 2nd International, Marxism was a powerful force among Western European workers. It bounced back, some,

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the profit rate recession

2002-02-12 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 2/12/2002 2:18:34 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I had raised an objection to Fred's theory in 21987 and 99. I have found that Samuel Hollander makes a similar criticism of Marx in his classical Economics: "The curve relating the profit rate and

Re: Re: Re: Re: Marxism as Science and Religion

2002-02-14 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated Thu, 14 Feb 2002 7:39:21 AM Eastern Standard Time, Alan Cibils [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: At 2/13/2002, you wrote: Alan, 3) Verticalism Doyle This begs the question of how a mass organization can truly reflect the views of the masses. This is indeed a key

Re: left tactics strategy

2002-02-14 Thread Waistline2
Melvin P writes: In my estimate you capture the spirit and essence of the conflict with the left groups and socialist sectarianist in their misconceived conception of raising the consciousness of the masses. All sects, including the ideological Marxist of all stripes, pride themselves

Re: Web Services and Microsoft Development Plans

2002-02-16 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 2/16/2002 11:36:02 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Microsoft and its rivals, like I.B.M. (news/quote) and Sun Microsystems (news/quote), are scrambling to supply businesses with these services, which will allow computers to share data across the Internet

Re: Grassroots Democracy?

2002-02-19 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 2/19/2002 1:45:46 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: February 14, 2002 by the Inter Press Service Argentina's Rebellion in the Neighborhoods by Marcela Valente BUENOS AIRES, Feb 13 - Neighborhood assemblies are springing up in cities throughout Argentina,

Re: On the necessity of socialism

2002-02-22 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 2/20/2002 2:37:31 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On the necessity of socialism Author: Sam Webb, national chairman, Communist Party USA People's Weekly World Newspaper, Feb 16, 2002 During the CPUSA's pre-convention period about a year ago, we had a

Re: Re: On the necessity of socialism

2002-02-22 Thread Waistline2
And yet as brutal, raw and violent as it was, it didn't threaten the very future of humankind and the planet. Rosa Luxembourg said that the choices facing humanity at that time were either socialism or barbarism, but even the brilliant Rosa did not anticipate the new dangers that are in store

Re: Re: Re: On the necessity of socialism 2

2002-02-22 Thread Waistline2
A New Era - A New Doctrine II The teaching of Karl Marx and Frederick Engels is all-powerful because it is true. Marx was a genius because he was able before anyone else to abstract from all the writings of history the law system that governed changes in society. Using the law system he

Re: Marx's Capital manuscript

2002-02-22 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 2/21/2002 3:10:30 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I present summary of article “Engels’ Edition of the Third Volume of Capital and Marx's original Manuscript”by Michael Heinrich in “ScienceSociety” Vol. 60 no.4(1996-1997;TheGuilford Press) In fear of

Re: Colombia

2002-02-23 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 2/23/2002 10:25:27 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: BTW2, I see that Jonas Savimbi died. He will not be missed. Jim Devine Couldn't happen to a better person. Melvin P.

Re: Re: PEN-L digest 71

2002-02-23 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 2/23/2002 10:47:30 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Comment:1) Perhaps I am not clear about whether you are really serious about this or not, but the implications of this are that anyone who is unemployed and or a part of the lumpen elements - is

Re: Reply To Melvin P

2002-02-24 Thread Waistline2
Comment: 1) Perhaps I am not clear about whether you are really serious about this or not, but the implications of this are that anyone who is unemployed and or a part of the lumpen elements - is objectively more revolutionary than a person in a job in a car-plant; 2) This is an extrapolation

Re: Reply To Melvin P

2002-02-24 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated Sun, 24 Feb 2002 11:37:47 AM Eastern Standard Time, Hari Kumar [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Dear Cmde Melvin: First, my sincere apologies #8211; you are right that I do indeed have shame on me. Not however for asking the questions #8211; for I do NOT think it is so

Re: Suppression of Marx

2002-02-24 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated Sun, 24 Feb 2002 3:44:11 PM Eastern Standard Time, Drewk [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: This is a reply to Charles Brown's pen-l 22901. (I hope to respond to Tom Walker's question in pen-l 22893 soon.) Charles asked me Is it your position that the 'transformation

Re: RE: Re: on the necessity of god, goddess, gods, god desses,or a combinati on of the above

2002-02-25 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated Mon, 25 Feb 2002 12:34:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, Devine, James [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I wrote: As far as I can tell, there's no logical argument either for or against the existence of god. Carrol: The presumption is always that X doesn't exist; hence the

Hari reply/bribery and labor aristoc.

2002-02-26 Thread Waistline2
Dear Comrade Melvin: Let me try to explain my viewpoint more clearly. 1) However I do not think I should have to explain myself any further, for asking a question - any further. After all Marx writes: If it is scientific task to resolve the outward visible movement into the inward and

reply-part 2

2002-02-26 Thread Waistline2
3) You wrote: A new qualitative development must take place within the working class whose growth and development is prevented by the framework of capital. Electronic-digital production is its trajectory of development is absolutely incompatible with a system based on the buying and selling

Re: Productive Forces, was Re: reply-part 2

2002-02-26 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated Tue, 26 Feb 2002 1:21:30 PM Eastern Standard Time, Carrol Cox [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We demand change in society along the direction of the productive forces, No. Not true. _Many_ Marxists but by no means all put central emphasis

Re: On the necessity of socialism

2002-02-26 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated Tue, 26 Feb 2002 12:54:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, Charles Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On the necessity of socialism by Waistline2 22 February 2002 19:17 UTC Melvin: On and off I have followed the politics of the CPUSA a little over thirty years; met

Re: reply-part 3-end

2002-02-26 Thread Waistline2
2) You say, Virtually all of us with a little gray in our heads developed a conception of Marxism based on boundaries within capital that no longer exist. I think as a vestigial die-hard, that the fundamentals have NOT changed, that all economic avenues for capital are ultimately doomed.

Re: Re: RE: God

2002-02-26 Thread Waistline2
Beginning in 1978 Zecharia Sitchin - one of the world renown linguist, revolutionized this field of inquiry - including a substantial translation of Gilgsmesh, with his 12th Planet, The Stairway to Heaven. The Wars of Gods and Men, The Lost Realms, When Time Began, Devine Encounters, The

Re: On the necessity/Sam Webb article

2002-02-28 Thread Waistline2
Here is a more complete reply to the article by Mr Webb What is new in the realm of economics and the Marxist movement - in my opinion, is making concrete the conception and articulation of the concepts of boundary, polarization, antagonism as a specific movement applicable to today's

Re: Re: Re: Productive Forces, was Re: reply-part 2

2002-02-28 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 2/27/2002 7:56:38 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Melvin MIYACHI TATSUO Psychiatric Department KOMAKI MUNICIPAL HOSPITAL JOHBUSHI,1-20 KOMAKI CITY AICHI Pre JAPAN 0568-76-4131 [EMAIL PROTECTED] productive force belongs to human being. Its force

Re: Re: Re: Re: Productive Forces, was Re: reply-part 2

2002-02-28 Thread Waistline2
acknowledged Melvin P

Re: RE: Productive Forces, was Re: reply-part 2

2002-02-28 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 2/27/2002 4:29:25 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We demand change in society along the direction of the productive forces, No. Not true. _Many_ Marxists but by no means all put central emphasis on the "productive

Re: RE: RE: Productive Forces

2002-02-28 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 2/28/2002 10:06:01 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I wrote: How do we measure the "productive forces," anyway? Miyachi writes: We measure productive force by quantity and value of commodities produced. It all. you forget always object people act on.

Re: RE: Productive Forces

2002-02-28 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 2/28/2002 8:56:25 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Jim wrote, How do we measure the "productive forces," anyway? It seems that capitalism would measure their development differently from other modes of production. (Capitalism might measure them in terms of

Re: On the necessity/Sam Webb article

2002-03-03 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 2/28/2002 4:20:02 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Here is a more complete reply to the article by Mr. Webb. -clip-. Mr. Webb article is devoid of any logic that something new has taken place in the world of economics in my opinion - and elementary

Free trade and auto industry

2002-03-04 Thread Waistline2
How the hell can W pretend to be in favor of the wonders of free trade and want to put the imports on steel, just to get Ohio, PA and WV votes? Because it's about --and has been since at least as far back as Bush I--managed trade, not free trade and not fair trade That is, managed trade

Re: Re: Suppression of Marx

2002-03-04 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 3/4/2002 7:17:33 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: MARX AND HIS POSTERITY Admittedly the founder of what has been the working-class movement shares some responsibility in the confusion of the thought that is meant to be Marxist or Marxism-related. But he did

Re: Question to Various comments in In Digest 77

2002-03-05 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 3/4/2002 11:57:49 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Question to Various comments in In Digest 77 by Davies, Daniel -clip- And whatever else one thinks about Cohen's work, I think he has to be right that Marx had a theory of history, and that this theory of

Re: Re: Re: Re: Suppression of Marx

2002-03-05 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 3/5/2002 6:14:29 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Dear Melvin, before becoming a researcher, I was a worker and an Union leader, like you. And I believed in "historical materialism", too. I believed in it, because having not yet visited history by myself, I

Re: Question to Various comments in In Digest 77

2002-03-05 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated Tue, 5 Mar 2002 11:51:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, Charles Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Question to Various comments in In Digest 77 by Waistline2 05 March 2002 12:09 UTC CB: Doesn't _The Manifesto of the Communist Party_ make it pretty clear that Marx's theory

Re: Re: Question Romain K.

2002-03-05 Thread Waistline2
Question: Why is historical materialism in quotes? And is this different from what Engels call the materialist conception of history in Anti-Durhing? Melvin P.

Re: Re: Peter

2002-03-06 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated Tue, 5 Mar 2002 5:33:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, Peter Dorman [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Right. I argued in Actually Existing Globalization (published in a collection a few years ago) that industrial policy is ultimately understandable only as technology policy, but that

Re: Against existing socialist contry

2002-03-07 Thread Waistline2
MIYACHI TATSUO, is this an accurate translation of pen-l: 23629? Reply to follow in separate comment. I think that Roemer's limit is about money. He doesn't refer to abolish money. In Critique of the Gotha programme Marx point out that in socialist society exchange through (using?) money

Re: Against existing socialist contry

2002-03-07 Thread Waistline2
MIYACHI TATSUO, your quote is too long to reproduce. The only booklet I keep at reaching distance from the period of the Sino-Soviet debate is On Khrushchev's Phony Communism and its historical lessons for the World, Comment on the open letter of the Central Committee of the CPSU,

Re: Re: Re: Re: Question Romain K.

2002-03-07 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated Thu, 7 Mar 2002 6:45:01 PM Eastern Standard Time, Carrol Cox [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Romain Kroes wrote: Because historical materialism has become a label. I don't get it. Literary Criticism has become a label. Frying Bacon has become a label. We still don't

Re: Enough already: Marx vs. Roemer

2002-03-12 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated Mon, 11 Mar 2002 5:10:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, Justin Schwartz [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Keep saying, it Charles, and maybe people will believe it. However, you've worn me out, so you must be right, Marx solved all our problems, and I embrace the true faith and

Re: Re: Marx's Proof

2002-03-13 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated Wed, 13 Mar 2002 1:49:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, John Ernst [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Doug, I think everything is a bit off the cuff here and perhaps misses what might be important. Among other things you wrote: Not getting value theory right has inhibited just

Re: On Roemer/Value/Technical/Capital

2002-03-13 Thread Waistline2
In this, Roemer remains in the sphere of ownership, and forgets the sphere of production. For producing profits material production must be presumed. And for production, many firms must interact with each other and exchange material, means of production, or intermediate commodities. Can coupon

Re: Class relation buying and selling

2002-03-17 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 3/15/2002 4:00:04 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Comrade melvin Thank you your reply I propose some question on your argument. 1. I suggest that you grasp capitalist society as firstly relation between buying and selling labor power and secondly surplus

Re: Re: New Book on Marx's Capital-Marx words

2002-03-20 Thread Waistline2
Marx to L. Kugelmann in Hanover London, July 11, 1868 . . . . As for the Centralblatt, the man is making the greatest possible concession in admitting that, if one means anything at all by value, the conclusion I draw must be accepted. The unfortunate fellow does not see that, even if there

Re: RE: New Book on Marx's Capital-Marx words

2002-03-21 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 3/21/2002 6:42:04 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I've always liked this letter to Kugelmann. Very Hegelian. Very important stress on the importance of theory for revolutionary transformation. Whose translation is this? Andrew Kliman Progress

Re: Re: Re: Alzheimer's disease

2002-03-21 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 3/21/2002 3:23:50 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I hope any relatives of sufferers will take cheer rather than offence in my passing on that the motto of the Irish Alzheimer's Disease Society is: "Remember those who can't". dd Thanks for this.

Re: Difference on evidence of deheimnisvolle der Warenform in f...

2002-03-21 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 3/21/2002 4:34:46 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In a message dated 3/21/2002 6:42:04 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I've always liked this letter to Kugelmann. Very Hegelian. Very important stress on the importance of theory for

Re: Re: Poultry Ban in Russia

2002-03-22 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated Fri, 22 Mar 2002 4:26:34 AM Eastern Standard Time, Charles Jannuzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: But Russians appear split on the reason for the ban: 35 percent said it was to help the domestic chicken industry, 34 percent said it was to keep inferior U.S. chicken off

Re: Re: Re: Le Pen triumph thanks to ultra-leftists

2002-04-24 Thread Waistline2
CB: On this issue, what about the fact that fascism _was_ defeated by the Popular Front. Do you mean the Allies? I wouldn't exactly call the military alliance between Stalin and Churchill and Roosevelt a Popular Front. It was a military alliance between sovereign nations. For that matter, I saw

Re: Re: Le Pen triumph thanks to ultra-leftists

2002-04-24 Thread Waistline2
CB: On this issue, what about the fact that fascism _was_ defeated by the Popular Front. Do you mean the Allies? I wouldn't exactly call the military alliance between Stalin and Churchill and Roosevelt a Popular Front. It was a military alliance between sovereign nations. For that matter, I saw

Re: Le Pen triumph thanks to ultra-leftists

2002-04-24 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 4/24/2002 1:31:01 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Greg Schofield: The Popular Front was one of the great modern innovations in effective political struggle of the working class, at the plain of how communists should work it relates directly to the Communist

Re: Re: Re: socialism is necessary

2002-05-27 Thread Waistline2
test. system been down.

Re: Charles and Ract Theory

2002-05-27 Thread Waistline2
Sorry to push this discussion to pen. Problems with my system and posting to Marxline. System was down but I most certainly relied to all our comments. Here is one of 5 articles written i refutation of the race theory as applied to African Americans and the history of the national colonial

Re:Charles and Race Theory 2

2002-05-27 Thread Waistline2
CB: Yes, your specific interpretation of Marxism may prohibit you, but not all interpretations of Marxism, including Marx's own interpretation of Marxism do not prohibit Marxists from speaking of race as an authentic concept of a Bolshevik strategist and tactician. As I have pointed out to you

Re: Race Theory 3

2002-05-27 Thread Waistline2
Clearly, those of us providing material excavated from the historical record about what actually happened are at a disadvantage in this discussion. The fact is that Foner's dead right in noting that the record includes multiracial organizations. When Cde. Melvin says this is "insane," it is

Re: Re: American history and Race Theory 4

2002-05-28 Thread Waistline2
The presentation of the national colonial question in respect to the direct descendants of the slaves that Marx refer to as the Negro race, has been observed over a long period of time by generations of communist. The presentation of this question is much broader than simply the use of the word

Re: Re: Race Theory 5

2002-05-28 Thread Waistline2
I might be biting off more than I can chew here: In relation to the post someone made about Negroes in the USA being a 'nation' and using the old 4 part definition of Stalin’s (common language, territory, economic life and psychological make-up ). I have never seen this applied to Black

Re: Racism and race are Marxist concepts

2002-05-28 Thread Waistline2
CB: This list has not been a part of this discussion, so you might want to give more background. The main point of contention between us is that you maintain that there is no category of " race" compatible with Marxism or historical materialism, and I say that there is. For a thread, (long

Re: On perspective

2002-05-28 Thread Waistline2
Part 3 of 3 DRAFT OF PROGRAM, Anarcho-Syndicalism Reply to Comrade MIYACHI TATSUO Capital has both internal limits -- surplus value and profits come from unpaid living labor; and labor-replacing technology drives the amount of living labor towards zero; and external limits -- we live on a planet

Re: Charles and Race Theory 2

2002-05-28 Thread Waistline2
On Marxline you wrote" Melvin, The shortest answer to all you say in these many, many posts is that "race" is a historical category. Basically, my answers will focus on that. You are wrong when you assert, argue, assume, insist, write at length, that race is only a biological and not a

Re: Re: Clueless 2

2002-05-29 Thread Waistline2
Clueless 2 CB: Briefly, the CPUSA from the 1920's to about 1950 orso held that Black people in the US had the right to self-determination in theLeninist sense. They had the right to secede from the U.S. if they sochose. If you are familiar with the Leninistapproach to this, it implies not that

Re: Re: Text file Clueless on national question

2002-05-29 Thread Waistline2
Brother U clueless . . . concerning the presentation of the national colonial question as it applies to the African American people. Below is your exchange: In relation to the post someone made about Negroes in the USA being a 'nation' and using the old 4 part definition of Stalin's (common

Re: Re: Text File Re: Clueless 2

2002-05-29 Thread Waistline2
Clueless 2 CB: Briefly, the CPUSA from the 1920's to about 1950 or so held that Black people in the US had the right to self-determination in the Leninist sense. They had the right to secede from the U.S. if they so chose. If you are familiar with the Leninist approach to this, it implies not

Re: Re:Text File Race

2002-05-29 Thread Waistline2
CB: What type of thing does Marx mean when he refers to a "Negro"CB: What type of thing does Marx mean when he refers to a "Negro" ? A national colonial group ? Or does he mean a group whose skin is "branded" or whose skin is a brand ? A group defined by its land, language, history ? Or a

Re:Text File Capitalist Slavery/Race

2002-05-29 Thread Waistline2
CB: You have not been persuasive. Obviously you jest. Comrade, you first asked me to define the content of the Marxist analysis of the African American national colonial question concerning Booker T. Washington and Dr. Dubois and I answered this question concretely and destroyed your racial

Re: The Death of Reconstruction [H-South]

2002-05-29 Thread Waistline2
Heather Cox Richardson. The Death of Reconstruction: Race, Labor, and Politics in the Post-Civil War North, 1865-1901. Cambridge and London: Harvard University Press, 2001. xvi + 312 pp. Notes index. $39.95 (cloth), ISBN 0-674-00637-2. It is really exciting and wonderful to read in your review

Re: Charles and Race Theory 2

2002-05-30 Thread Waistline2
“Black and white, unite and fight!” is extremely disheartening to a man that believes in “Proletarians of the World Unite!, and “Workers and Oppressed People of the World Unite!,” which appears to perhaps be historically obsolete, given our current stage in the development of capital world wide.

Re: Text file reply Charles and Race Theory 2

2002-05-30 Thread Waistline2
"Black and white, unite and fight!" is extremely disheartening to a man that believes in "Proletarians of the World Unite!, and "Workers and Oppressed People of the World Unite!," which appears to perhaps be historically obsolete, given our current stage in the development of capital world wide.

re: prim-accum/capital and race theory-the real story

2002-05-30 Thread Waistline2
CB: No. I get he idea that slavery was integral to the primitive accumulation of capitalism from Marx (Steal this idea!). It is not my idea or the CPUSA's right wing’s. It is Marx's idea. Quote: The discovery of gold and silver in America, the extirpation, enslavement and entombment in mines of

Re text file the real story;prim-accum-capital.

2002-05-30 Thread Waistline2
CB: No. I get the idea that slavery was integral to the primitive accumulation of capitalism from Marx (Steal this idea!). It is not my idea or the CPUSA's right wing's. It is Marx's idea. Quote: "The discovery of gold and silver in America, the extirpation, enslavement and entombment in mines of

Re: RE: White Supremacist society

2002-05-31 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 5/30/02 10:46:02 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: But this is why Oliver C. Cox's distinction between "racism" (and "race") and "race antagonism" (or racial oppression) is so important. For Cox, the former is ideological/superstructural, but the latter is

Re: On association

2002-05-31 Thread Waistline2
Finally How is your "communism" program? If it is vague, simply you argue communism is good in abstract matter. Please tell me concrete program of your "Communism" Our side are leaded by people within which we create de-reifying movement Reply, I do not have a concrete communist program. I

Re: Re: Re text file the real story;prim-accum-capital.

2002-05-31 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 5/30/02 8:12:11 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I would differ with Melvin in one respect. I don't think that slaves exactly replaced white indentured labor in the South, in the sense that planters changed their crops to a large extent with the introduction

Re: RE: Re:Forstater: Text File Capitalist Slavery/Race

2002-06-05 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 5/29/02 1:11:46 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Chang, following Marx, also uses the Gemeinschaft vs.Gesellschaft distinction to demonstrate that "a race or a racial groupcannot be a class in the strictly economic-relational sense of classes." While, in

Re: Re: Re: There are not unequal exchange ;critique of Frank

2002-06-08 Thread Waistline2
Comrade MIYACHI TATSUO, I have read rather intensely your proposal or rather “DRAFT OF PROGRAM OF SOCIAL MOVEMENT IN 21st CENTURY,” “Analysis of contemporary capitalism,” along with reading of “On Association” and would like to approach this subject from a somewhat different entry point.

Re: Re: 3 There are not unequal exchange ;critique of Frank

2002-06-08 Thread Waistline2
Comrade Miyachi, You do not fight Marxist but bourgeois economist that glorify and mystify capital in its money form. You state things that make me think deeply, but are confusing at times. Perhaps, because thinking is required. You state: We must again analyze the peculiar principle of the

Re: Re: Re: Re: 3 There are not unequal exchange ;critique of F...

2002-06-09 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 6/8/02 3:17:08 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On 2002.06.08 11:21 PM, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: the peculiar mode of operations means new type of capital accumulation. MIYACHI TATSUO Psychiatric Department Komaki municipal hosipital

Re: Re: Re: Re: 3 There are not unequal exchange ;critique of F...

2002-06-09 Thread Waistline2
Pardon my insistenceon pursuing this discussion. My awareness of a syndicalism tread in discussingMarx conception of the associate society as it develops on the basis of the human material shaped and evolved by capital was that of my own or rather in my own head. I am at my theoretical limit and

Re: Further study.

2002-06-11 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 6/9/02 1:36:49 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Melvin P Thank you your reply The Commmodyfing capital seems to be difficult to understand. So I am now studying "radical problem of credit"(By YAMAMOY0) In it he argue new credit system analysis . You should

Re: Re: Inheritance tax is Marxist

2002-06-12 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 6/12/02 12:05:28 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Inheritance tax is Marxist by Ian Murray 12 June 2002 Manifesto of the Communist Party 1848 http://www.anu.edu.au/polsci/marx/classics/manifesto.html#Proletarian Of course, in the beginning, this

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