Re: What are CPAN tester N/A reports?

2008-11-06 Thread Michael G Schwern
Ovid wrote: 1. How can I find out why a CPAN testers report is N/A? Dig through the details. [MSG] [Sat Oct 18 02:06:52 2008] Prerequisite 'perl' for 'Test::Most' could not be obtained from CPAN -- sending N/A grade In this case, CPANPLUS::Dist::YACSmoke is confused. Lately it seems to be

[ANNOUNCE] Test::More/Simple/Builder 0.85_01 (cmp_ok() fixage warning)

2008-10-23 Thread Michael G Schwern
http://test-more.googlecode.com/files/Test-Simple-0.85_01.tar.gz This latest release resolves a number of long outstanding issues in cmp_ok(). The biggest being this: cmp_ok $object, '==', $number; cmp_ok() would always stringify or numify its arguments, removing the overloading. This

Re: Announce: Test::Formats 0.11

2008-10-21 Thread Michael G Schwern
Randy J. Ray wrote: After much longer than it *should* have taken me, I've finally gotten my Test::* module onto CPAN (in fact, this is the second release, as the first time around I bundled it on a machine that had an out-of-date EU::MM, so the META.yml wasn't quite up to par... plus I'd

Re: ANNOUNCE Test::More/Simple/Builder 0.82

2008-10-16 Thread Michael G Schwern
Steve Peters wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] t]$ ./perl harness ../lib/constant.t ../lib/constant1/97 # Failed test at ../lib/constant.t line 115. # got: '1' # expected: '0' # unexpected warning # Argument 12 cats isn't numeric in addition (+) at ../lib/Test/Builder.pm line

Re: ANNOUNCE Test::More/Simple/Builder 0.82

2008-10-15 Thread Michael G Schwern
Ovid wrote: It's interesting that every time I run this, the 'note' shows up before the 'diag': use Test::More 'no_plan'; ok 1, 'first test'; diag 'this is a diag'; note 'this is a note'; ok 1, 'second test'; __END__ note.t .. ok 1 - first test # this is a note

ANNOUNCE Test::More/Simple/Builder 0.84

2008-10-15 Thread Michael G Schwern
0.82 accidentally shipped with a dependency on Mouse. We're only using that for experiments. No other change. http://schwern.org/src/Test-Simple-0.84.tar.gz -- Hating the web since 1994.

ANNOUNCE Test::More/Simple/Builder 0.82

2008-10-14 Thread Michael G Schwern
http://schwern.org/src/Test-Simple-0.82.tar.gz or coming soon on CPAN. Please report bugs via http://code.google.com/p/test-more/issues/list There are some user visible changes which might cause fixage for those who depend too closely on the output of Test::Builder. Here's the new features and

Re: New Test:: module forthcoming; (pseudo-)Validation of YAML

2008-10-14 Thread Michael G Schwern
Randy J. Ray wrote: Seeing as one of the CPANTS metrics gauges whether a distro's META.yml conforms to the most-recent spec, I was wondering if there is an existing approach to comparing a YAML doc to a given spec. Or what constitutes a YAML spec, for that matter. The YAML specifications can

ANNOUNCE Test::Fork

2008-10-14 Thread Michael G Schwern
http://schwern.org/src/Test-Fork-0.02.tar.gz On its way to CPAN now. I just cleaned up and released a stable version of Test::Fork which is a helper module for code that forks. It does all the Test::Builder voodoo necessary to have tests happening in parallel on a single TAP stream. NAME

Re: Generic test database

2008-10-08 Thread Michael G Schwern
Greg Sabino Mullane wrote: It should be fairly easy for willing CPAN testers to setup any database they like, and provide some connection information for throwaway tables and data (assuming the test script WILL probably drop all tables in there and dump its own crap there). This seems of

HP's Testdrive being replaced.

2008-10-01 Thread Michael G Schwern
I just found this out, and I assume others here occasionally make use of testdrive and don't know. HP is shutting down it's testdrive program which gives logins to its many operating systems (see also VMS) for developer evaluation and testing. It's replacing it with something called HP Partner

Re: [PATCH] ExtUtils::MakeMaker and world writable files in dists

2008-09-29 Thread Michael G Schwern
Aristotle Pagaltzis wrote: * Cosimo Streppone [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2008-09-29 02:10]: but it seems that gnu tar doesn't like the following: $ tar --mode=0755 cvf blah.tar somedir $ tar c --mode=0755 vf blah.tar somedir and will only accept: $ tar cvf blah.tar --mode=0755 somedir

Re: [PATCH] ExtUtils::MakeMaker and world writable files in dists

2008-09-29 Thread Michael G Schwern
Aristotle Pagaltzis wrote: * Michael G Schwern [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2008-09-29 14:50]: MakeMaker can set a minimum umask if it wants to play security nanny On Windows? Windows, as always, is a special case. If a work around is necessary for Windows that's fine. -- Hating the web since

Re: [PATCH] ExtUtils::MakeMaker and world writable files in dists

2008-09-29 Thread Michael G Schwern
Aristotle Pagaltzis wrote: * Michael G Schwern [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2008-09-29 16:35]: Aristotle Pagaltzis wrote: * Michael G Schwern [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2008-09-29 14:50]: MakeMaker can set a minimum umask if it wants to play security nanny On Windows? Windows, as always, is a special case

Re: Who is vpit?

2008-09-25 Thread Michael G Schwern
Ovid wrote: Today I've received two failure reports from vpit (via the excellent new CPAN testers email). The error for both Test::Aggregate and aliased is: [ERROR] [Wed Sep 24 20:13:40 2008] Could not run 'Build': Can't use an undefined value as a HASH reference at

Re: [RFC] Dealing with World-writable Files in the Archive of CPAN Distributions

2008-09-22 Thread Michael G Schwern
Michael G Schwern wrote: Shlomi Fish wrote: * What is the problem with world writeable files in a distro? Let's suppose Makefile.PL is world-writable. While the distro is being unpacked, a malicious user writes something like: {{{ system('rm -fr $HOME'); }}} to it, and after you come

Re: [RFC] Dealing with World-writable Files in the Archive of CPAN Distributions

2008-09-22 Thread Michael G Schwern
Michael Peters wrote: You're right. If they are a malicious user then they will find a way to screw you. I'm just saying that since we know about this path, let's eliminate it, or at least make it public and known. I agree with that. The part I object to in the OP is the part where CPAN

Re: How to write a test for Test::Builder?

2008-09-19 Thread Michael G Schwern
Fergal Daly wrote: #!perl use Test::More tests=1; use Test::Builder::Tester; test_out('not ok 1 - use Fcntl;'); test_fail(+1); use_ok 'Fcntl', 'Pie'; test_test( Fails for bad export); __END__ alternatively use Test::Tester; use Test::More tests = 1;

Re: PerlUnit

2008-09-17 Thread Michael G Schwern
Eric Wilhelm wrote: My stock thinking is that because it follows the xUnit pattern that's most familiar to most non-Perl programmers. It's the first thing they stumble on that looks like what they're used to. So that's what they go with. Even if they had no prior language experience, if

Re: PerlUnit

2008-09-17 Thread Michael G Schwern
David E. Wheeler wrote: On Sep 17, 2008, at 13:24, Michael G Schwern wrote: FWIW I added a TAP column to the Perl section on Wikipedia's list of unit testing frameworks. If every testing framework has to sound off on xUnit, why not TAP? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki

Re: PerlUnit

2008-09-16 Thread Michael G Schwern
Ovid wrote: PerlUnit is dead. Lots of people are recommending PerlUnit. What have I missed? http://use.perl.org/~Ovid/journal/37463 My stock thinking is that because it follows the xUnit pattern that's most familiar to most non-Perl programmers. It's the first thing they stumble on

Re: CPAN Testers - Author Notification System

2008-09-11 Thread Michael G Schwern
Barbie wrote: The notification system will run once a day and collate a list of the links to the reports via the web interface on the NNTP server. As such, you will no longer receive huge reports in your inbox, but at most just one email a day containing a list of links to your reports. You

Re: Plans for CPAN Testers notification when author CC's go away

2008-09-11 Thread Michael G Schwern
Aristotle Pagaltzis wrote: * David Golden [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2008-09-05 21:10]: * After a period of time to allow people to opt-in, the default policy for authors without a stated preference will be changed to no mail. From that point on, CPAN Testers will be a purely opt-in

Re: CPAN Testers - Author Notification System

2008-09-11 Thread Michael G Schwern
David E. Wheeler wrote: On Sep 11, 2008, at 14:17, Michael G Schwern wrote: Because they all come in at one lump, I have to deal with them in one lump. There's no easy system to tell which ones I've dealt with (previously I'd just delete the mail) and which ones I haven't. The way

Re: CPAN Testers - Author Notification System

2008-09-11 Thread Michael G Schwern
Barbie wrote: On Thu, Sep 11, 2008 at 02:17:41PM -0700, Michael G Schwern wrote: Ick. I hope I'm missing something obvious maybe? The bit where I get flamed. Again. Thanks. You're welcome. :) Oh, you're in a hellish spot, I realize. And it sucks. Thank you very much for putting so much

Re: Sub::Uplevel vs Test::More

2008-09-10 Thread Michael G Schwern
Nicholas Clark wrote: On Tue, Sep 09, 2008 at 10:12:24PM -0400, David Golden wrote: (CPAN::Reporter and deps are probably the exception and only because Slaven has sent me so many patches that I feel I owe it to him to support his Quixotic mission to smoke 5.005.) Certainly, I'd have a

Re: Sub::Uplevel vs Test::More

2008-09-10 Thread Michael G Schwern
Eric Wilhelm wrote: # from David Golden # on Wednesday 10 September 2008 11:00: If CPANTS can find the -w in the tests or whatever and the META.yml says 5.6... (Because enabling warnings in *everyone else's* code is a good way to placate a static kwalitee scanner?) I give up. I don't

Re: use Test::More no_plan = $plan;

2008-09-09 Thread Michael G Schwern
Aristotle Pagaltzis wrote: * Ovid [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2008-09-08 12:55]: In the developer release of Test::Simple, Test::Builder has been altered to die if you have any arguments after 'no_plan'. This means that some previously passing tests will fail. In fact, there are two test programs in

Re: use Test::More no_plan = $plan;

2008-09-09 Thread Michael G Schwern
Aristotle Pagaltzis wrote: * Aristotle Pagaltzis [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2008-09-09 09:05]: “I broke CPAN” Btw, Michael, do you have a t-shirt that says that? Because if not, we really need to make you one. :-) Hehe, no, but that would be awesome! :) Maybe that should be the next Best Practical

Re: use Test::More no_plan = $plan;

2008-09-09 Thread Michael G Schwern
Aristotle Pagaltzis wrote: * Ovid [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2008-09-09 08:35]: This reminds me of all of the regexes people write to match proper HTML: sometimes something simple is all you need :) As I wrote in response to Eric, I was actually trying to get as near a comprehenive list of things

Re: use Test::More no_plan = $plan;

2008-09-09 Thread Michael G Schwern
Ovid wrote: --- On Tue, 9/9/08, Michael G Schwern [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The nice thing about having a central package repository with such a strong gravity as CPAN does is that it enables tandem upgrades of dependent code when APIs change incompatibly. So jealous of OS vendors

Re: use Test::More no_plan = $plan;

2008-09-09 Thread Michael G Schwern
Andreas J. Koenig wrote: On Tue, 9 Sep 2008 09:00:54 +0200, Aristotle Pagaltzis [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: * Michael G Schwern [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2008-09-09 08:15]: I was surprised to get a few hundred results Note that CodeSearch indexes tarballs, so there are likely

Sub::Uplevel vs Test::More

2008-09-09 Thread Michael G Schwern
Andreas J. Koenig wrote: On Tue, 09 Sep 2008 05:03:25 -0700, Michael G Schwern [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: I've uploaded a new alpha to deal with this. It still breaks Sub::Uplevel. Sub::Uplevel has lots of dependencies. I won't smoke a Test-Simple that breaks Sub-Uplevel. Or if the fault

Re: Sub::Uplevel vs Test::More

2008-09-09 Thread Michael G Schwern
David Golden wrote: On Tue, Sep 9, 2008 at 6:10 PM, Michael G Schwern [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Taking a knife to CORE::caller() and then calling someone else's functions and expecting them to work is not a good idea. The problem is that we want Sub::Uplevel to do what people expect

Re: YAML specifications in modules

2008-09-07 Thread Michael G Schwern
Eric Wilhelm wrote: # from H.Merijn Brand # on Sunday 31 August 2008 03:35: If I follow http://module-build.sourceforge.net/META-spec-v1.3.html#recommends optional_features: - opt_csv: ... ... And if I follow http://module-build.sourceforge.net/META-spec-v1.3.html#recommends

[ANNOUNCE] Test::More 0.81_01

2008-09-06 Thread Michael G Schwern
http://test-more.googlecode.com/files/Test-Simple-0.81_01.tar.gz Before I start tearing up the guts of Test::Builder in earnest, I figure I should get a last release out. Here's an alpha of Test::More with a bunch of new little features and bug fixes, including... * note() which is like diag()

IETF list? (was Re: JSON TAP Diagnostics?)

2008-08-21 Thread Michael G Schwern
Ovid wrote: Folks, this really, really needs to go to the IETF list. What IETF list? -- Ahh email, my old friend. Do you know that revenge is a dish that is best served cold? And it is very cold on the Internet!

Re: Should MANIFEST go in the repository?

2008-08-20 Thread Michael G Schwern
Jeffrey Thalhammer wrote: At my current $job, the Perl code is organized into a handful of cpan-style distros. We use Module::Build to build each distro, and then use CPAN.pm to orchestrate the deployment of the application from a local CPAN repository. This all works like a charm. But

Re: Error report for Padre 0.05

2008-08-18 Thread Michael G Schwern
Gabor Szabo wrote: Looking at this report I am not sure why does it fail and how to fix it http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.cpan.testers/2008/08/msg2041140.html Besides, AFAIK PAR::Packer is not one of the prereqs of Padre so what are these messages regarding PAR::Packer? Known

Re: IETF

2008-08-18 Thread Michael G Schwern
Ovid wrote: One issue Salve raised is that the IETF apparently requires *physical* meetings three times a year. Short of people individually ponying up the money, this suggests some form of sponsorship. Anyone have any thoughts on this? I roll to disbelieve. It seems not like the IETF to

Re: JSON TAP Diagnostics?

2008-08-18 Thread Michael G Schwern
Ovid wrote: One issue which arose at YAPC::EU was the problem with machine-readable TAP diagnostics. Since they're not yet implemented, we can change them. The problem we wound up with was that we have two things to specify: core TAP and extended TAP. Core TAP is simple (well, uh,

Re: JSON TAP Diagnostics?

2008-08-18 Thread Michael G Schwern
Ovid wrote: --- On Mon, 18/8/08, Michael G Schwern [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: YAML has several important things that JSON is lacking. Without going into detail, I'll just say that you raise some valid points. I agree with some and not with others, but we should defer this discussion

Re: JSON TAP Diagnostics?

2008-08-18 Thread Michael G Schwern
Ovid wrote: --- On Tue, 19/8/08, Michael G Schwern [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think we should start the process by specifying TAP version 12 aka core TAP. The stuff we all agree on and is in wide use. Extension discussion should be orthogonal so as not to stall the standardization

Re: Patch for Test::Kwalitee to build and install

2008-08-13 Thread Michael G Schwern
Heiko Eißfeldt wrote: I had problems installing Test::Kwalitee 0.30 with the latest Module::CPANTS::Analyse 0.82 under win xp/cygwin. 'perl ./Build test' gave t/01-kwaliteeskipped: Test::Kwalitee not installed: need a dist at .../.cpan/build/Test-Kwalitee-0.30/blib/lib/

Rebuilding the Test::Builder community

2008-08-06 Thread Michael G Schwern
As you may know, TPF funded my grant to rewrite Test::Builder to support the new test library features people have been asking for over the last six or seven years of it's life that it doesn't currently support well. One of the first things I'd like to address is how I've handled the dev

Re: Rebuilding the Test::Builder community

2008-08-06 Thread Michael G Schwern
Michael G Schwern wrote: I've chosen Google Code because it does basically everything I want, uses Subversion which we're used to, everything talks to and makes importing the repo easy. Also I can just bother Andy Lester if I can't figure anything out. :) The repository import is in progress

Have/Want

2008-08-06 Thread Michael G Schwern
I don't remember if this escaped the Oslo Hackathon. For a long time people have been complaining about Got as in Got vs Expected (for, imho, fussy grammar reasons). Also expected is long and has to be carefully lined up with got. During the Oslo Hackathon we knocked this around some and

Re: TODO Tests

2008-05-17 Thread Michael G Schwern
Aristotle Pagaltzis wrote: As a technique, paying attention to how broken code changes, why does it matter that broken code breaks differently? What does this information tell you that might fix code? It means there is a known internal dependency on some other part of the code that is not

Re: Test::Harness 3.10 lots of issues under Devel::Cover 0.64

2008-05-14 Thread Michael G Schwern
These appear to all being due to the fact that Test::Harness does some very specific tests of @INC and the environment which Devel::Cover changes. It's not Devel::Cover's fault. The below appear to be because Devel::Cover inserts its own blib into @INC and the tests aren't wired to deal with

Re: TODO Tests

2008-05-14 Thread Michael G Schwern
Smylers wrote: Bram writes: At the moment foo() returns 3. Time passes and code changes. Now there are 3 options: foo() returns 1, this will result in 'unexpected todo test passed' being outputted; foo() returns 3, no special output is produced; foo() returns 4, no special output is

Re: Munging output when running warning tests

2008-04-28 Thread Michael G Schwern
nadim khemir wrote: I have had a problems with output when running tests, this happends, IE, when perl output a warning. warning_like { something() ; } qr'Use of uninitialized value in substitution iterator' ; I get the warning on the terminal which is boring when

Re: Test::Most::EXIT()

2008-04-23 Thread Michael G Schwern
Ovid wrote: I'd like advice on how best to implement this. Currently, because so many module authors thoughtfully break $SIG{__DIE__}, I routinely find that things like this break: ok $foo or die; # sometimes still exits with zero # or simply doesn't exit Is it

Re: [tap-l] User Supplied YAML Diagnostic Keys: Descriptive Version

2008-04-19 Thread Michael G Schwern
David E. Wheeler wrote: On Apr 18, 2008, at 10:50, chromatic wrote: My argument was complex: solve the real problem or don't solve it. The in between position is silly and won't make anyone happy. (However, the first person to suggest RDF triples gets a lecture from *all* parties.) Yes.

Re: [tap-l] User Supplied Ontologies

2008-04-19 Thread Michael G Schwern
Chris Dolan wrote: I'm not on the tap-l list (why is this cross-posted to perl-qa???) We're trying to move discussion of TAP to a broader, non-perl audience, thus the non-perl TAP mailing list. Since most TAP discussion has been on perl-qa, and since many of the people interested in TAP are

Re: [tap-l] User Supplied YAML Diagnostic Keys: Descriptive Version

2008-04-18 Thread Michael G Schwern
chromatic wrote: If TAP v15 adds a new reserved key, anyone who deliberately upgrades may need to modify both the producer and consumer to deal with the collision, if that person even cares. I don't understand. There can be no collision. Official TAP keys all start with a lower case letter.

Re: [tap-l] User Supplied YAML Diagnostic Keys: Descriptive Version

2008-04-17 Thread Michael G Schwern
chromatic wrote: On Wednesday 16 April 2008 22:57:21 David E. Wheeler wrote: In principal I completely agree with you, chromatic (that is, I agree with the principal you espouse here; my agreement is not purely theoretical ;-)). But how does that work in practice? Specifically with regard to

Re: [tap-l] User Supplied YAML Diagnostic Keys: Descriptive Version

2008-04-17 Thread Michael G Schwern
chromatic wrote: We'd like folks to be able to add their own keys as they need without first wondering whether it might be useful for others or worrying if we might add a key of the same name, but different functionality, later. Thus the separation of local from official keys. This part I

Re: [tap-l] User Supplied YAML Diagnostic Keys: Descriptive Version

2008-04-17 Thread Michael G Schwern
chromatic wrote: On Thursday 17 April 2008 16:17:48 Michael G Schwern wrote: chromatic wrote: We'd like folks to be able to add their own keys as they need without first wondering whether it might be useful for others or worrying if we might add a key of the same name, but different

Re: [tap-l] User Supplied YAML Diagnostic Keys: Descriptive Version

2008-04-17 Thread Michael G Schwern
Executive summary: User key collision is not a show stopper. chromatic wrote: On Thursday 17 April 2008 17:56:25 Michael G Schwern wrote: We're working around the same issue Perl 5 is having adding new keywords. In Perl 5, since keywords and user-defined subroutines share the same space

Re: [tap-l] User Supplied YAML Diagnostic Keys: Descriptive Version

2008-04-17 Thread Michael G Schwern
chromatic wrote: On Thursday 17 April 2008 19:10:21 Michael G Schwern wrote: As for why it'll work with TAP, with a few exceptions (exit_status, or whatever we decide to call it, is currently the only one), diagnostic keys do not effect test parsing. It's not a show stopper. At worst

Re: [tap-l] User Supplied YAML Diagnostic Keys: Descriptive Version

2008-04-13 Thread Michael G Schwern
Ovid wrote: --- Steffen Schwigon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And we are talking about the diagnostics part, which is primarily for the user, so the rules are reversed there. There are two goals we want: 1. Make it as human-readable as possible. 2. Maximize flexibility. As for human-readable,

Re: [tap-l] User Supplied YAML Diagnostic Keys: Descriptive Version

2008-04-13 Thread Michael G Schwern
David E. Wheeler wrote: On Apr 13, 2008, at 10:41, Michael G Schwern wrote: Two possible solutions: A) Just reserve ASCII [a-z]. This is very easy to check for but I'm worried it's carving out too small a space. Why would it be too small? I mean, that's a *lot* of words you can use. I

Re: [tap-l] User Supplied YAML Diagnostic Keys: Descriptive Version

2008-04-13 Thread Michael G Schwern
chromatic wrote: On Sunday 13 April 2008 10:41:04 Michael G Schwern wrote: Remember, the producer and the displayer of the non-reserved keys are both under local user control. They choose the custom keys and they choose what they need and can handle. That sort of eliminates the upgrading

Descriptive vs Proscriptive

2008-04-11 Thread Michael G Schwern
[For folks who aren't aware, we just had an intense three day hackathon in Oslo during which about a dozen of us tried to hash out new TAP extensions and write some sort of well formed spec. We got a lot done, but didn't have quite the clean resolution I was hoping for. Afterwards I had a

Re: TAP has no exit code

2008-03-31 Thread Michael G Schwern
Eric Wilhelm wrote: # from Aristotle Pagaltzis # on Sunday 30 March 2008 23:14: Except that the test program might be running at the other end of an HTTP connection. Or at the other end of a serial port. Or the harness might be parsing an archived TAP stream. Or a TAP archive generated offline

Re: An alternate view on deferred plans

2008-03-31 Thread Michael G Schwern
Eric Wilhelm wrote: What it protects you from is dying half-way through the tests without the harness noticing... Death is noted by both Test::More and Test::Harness and has been for a long time The only way you can abort the test halfway through using no_plan and get a success is with an

Re: TAP has no exit code

2008-03-31 Thread Michael G Schwern
Eric Wilhelm wrote: # from Michael G Schwern # on Sunday 30 March 2008 23:35: There is a TAP proposal to add meta information such as the exit codes. http://testanything.org/wiki/index.php/TAP_meta_information Yay. Can we put 'hostname' in there too? You can put whatever you want

Re: Friday afternoon in Oslo

2008-03-31 Thread Michael G Schwern
David Golden wrote: I'll be getting into Oslo Friday mid-morning. Assuming no mishaps finding the hotel, I'll be up for touring around Oslo on Friday afternoon. If anyone from the hackathon has similar plans and is interested in meeting up, please email and let me know. (And if any locals

More topics for the hackathon

2008-03-31 Thread Michael G Schwern
Eric brining up TAP meta information made me think of some more hackathon topics. Finish and implement the TAP meta information proposals. Everybody wants them. http://perl-qa.hexten.net/wiki/index.php/Oslo_QA_Hackathon_2008_:_Topics#TAP_Meta_Information Revise the TAP specification, it's

Re: An alternate view on deferred plans

2008-03-30 Thread Michael G Schwern
Aristotle Pagaltzis wrote: Note that it doesn’t quite protect you from running too few tests either. You may botch some conditional in your test program and end up skipping tests silently, in which case you will still reach the `all_done()` line, and it’ll look as if all was fine. The typical

MySQL + TAP == MyTAP

2008-03-29 Thread Michael G Schwern
Stumbled across this while finding an alternative to libtap for testing C (it has some sort of issue linking with this hairy project I'm working on). Apparently MySQL wrote their own TAP library for C. From http://dev.mysql.com/doc/mysqltest/en/unit-test.html The unit-testing facility is

Re: An alternate view on deferred plans

2008-03-29 Thread Michael G Schwern
Buddy Burden wrote: Not criticizing, not claiming my method is better, just looking for any reasons why this wouldn't work. And, JIC there's some agreement that it _would_ work, I've already put together a patch for Test::Most that does it. That is, at the top of your script, you put this:

Re: Is FIT fit for purpose?

2008-03-28 Thread Michael G Schwern
Eric Wilhelm wrote: On Thursday 27 March 2008 12:42:13 Eric Wilhelm wrote: What do you need to test that your users need to drive? Business rules. So, what is a good example of such a business rule? I posit that payroll does not count because the user could more concisely write the rule

Test::Builder 2 in Oslo

2008-03-28 Thread Michael G Schwern
I put Test::Builder 2 up as a topic for the Oslo hackathon. http://perl-qa.hexten.net/wiki/index.php/Oslo_QA_Hackathon_2008_:_Topics#Test::Builder_2 -- E: Would you want to maintain a 5000 line Perl program? d: Why would you write a 5000 line program?

Re: Is FIT fit for purpose?

2008-03-28 Thread Michael G Schwern
Ok, let's clear this all up. FIT is not about expressing business rules. FIT is a tool which allows the customer to add test cases in a way they're comfortable with. A programmer still has to write the logic behind those tests (called a Fixture), but it allows a customer to easily add more

Re: Is FIT fit for purpose?

2008-03-27 Thread Michael G Schwern
Ovid wrote: Has anyone here ever succesfully used FIT testing? I was at one of the first presentations of FITness a long time ago, but the example Ward Cunningham gave was of a calculator. I thought the idea was neat, but how would I implement it? When you say implement it do you mean the

Re: model-based testing

2008-03-26 Thread Michael G Schwern
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi *, are there any Perl modules for model-based testing [1]? Are there any talks about model-based testing with Perl? Cheers, Renee [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model-based_testing Never heard of it. It smells a little bit like a further extension of FIT

Server and database testing

2008-03-26 Thread Michael G Schwern
I have some work to write tests for a server that talks to a database. This means creating a database and firing up a server for testing purposes, and then dropping the database and shutting down the server at the end. This also means making sure that multiple instances of the test can run on

Hackathon logistics

2008-03-25 Thread Michael G Schwern
A few logistical items that I'd like to make sure are being taken care of for the hackathon. The idea is to work this out now to maximize our in-site hacking time. I don't know what the status of this is, but here's what I can think of off the top of my head. *) Access for wirelessless

Re: My Perl QA Hackathon Wishlist

2008-03-25 Thread Michael G Schwern
Gergely Brautigam wrote: One last question then I swear I will shut up :) Why use perl for testing? Of course all others languages are used for testing this and that.. What excels perl to be used for testing. Obviusly it has powerfull regex, and datahandling capabilities... But besides

Patent for Software Package Verification nothing to worry about

2008-03-20 Thread Michael G Schwern
About two years ago several people came upon this patent granted to Sun, EP1170667 - Software Package Verification http://gauss.ffii.org/PatentView/EP1170667 Its US equivalent is 7080357 http://www.google.com/patents?vid=USPAT7080357 There was some concern this might conflict with TAP and

Re: Why should package declaration match filename?

2008-03-15 Thread Michael G Schwern
Dave Rolsky wrote: There's a lot of value in following the existing best practices of the Perl community as a whole. For one thing, it means you can hire people with Perl experience and they can bring that experience to bear on your application. If you insist on reinventing every wheel,

Re: Why should package declaration match filename?

2008-03-14 Thread Michael G Schwern
Matisse Enzer wrote: I'm discussing some potential refactorings at $work at wanted to give an articulate explanation of the benefits of having package declarations match file names, so that: # file is Foo/bar.pm package Foo::Bar; That was probably a typo, but I hope you mean

Re: ExtUtils::FakeMaker 0.001 uploaded

2008-03-13 Thread Michael G Schwern
Ricardo SIGNES wrote: That's all! I hope someone else finds it useful. FWIW we were just talking about the issue of generating modules from static files (rather than the other way around like we do now) at PDX.pm. -- Look at me talking when there's science to do. When I look out there it

Re: [tap-l] SKIP_ALL tests should not get hidden

2008-03-10 Thread Michael G Schwern
Andy Armstrong wrote: On 20 Nov 2007, at 23:39, Michael G Schwern wrote: Do we like that? Test::Harness 2 put it on it's own line mostly to avoid wrapping off the right side of the screen. I still lean in that direction. Hmm. I'm kind of hooked on the new behaviour now. It puts a summary

Re: TAP::Harness / CPAN problem

2008-03-08 Thread Michael G Schwern
Chris Dolan wrote: On Mar 8, 2008, at 11:59 AM, Andy Armstrong wrote: On 8 Mar 2008, at 17:54, Chris Dolan wrote: Perl 5.8.6 (Apple's dist for OSX 10.4) Test::Harness 3.10 TAP::Harness 0.54 TAP::Parser 0.54 CPAN 1.9205 CPANPLUS 0.82 Yeah, you have a mixture of Test::Harness and

More information in NAs (was Re: CPANTesters considered harmful)

2008-03-03 Thread Michael G Schwern
demerphq wrote: On 03/03/2008, David Golden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 6:57 AM, demerphq [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: IMO if an NA result comes in without email contact details and without an explanation for the NA then the result should not be aggregated against the

Re: CPANTesters considered harmful

2008-03-03 Thread Michael G Schwern
Nicholas Clark wrote: On Mon, Mar 03, 2008 at 02:19:23PM +, Smylers wrote: demerphq writes: It turned out the problem is that when the tests are root it seems to be not possible to create a directory that is not writeable by root. I think that can be reduced to: It isn't possible to

Re: More information in NAs (was Re: CPANTesters considered harmful)

2008-03-03 Thread Michael G Schwern
David Golden wrote: On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 11:45 AM, Michael G Schwern [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It would be nice if NA's included the reason for it being an NA, that being the full Makefile/Build.PL output just like if it failed. I don't see any harm in that and it would help identify

Test-Simple 0.77 fixage

2008-03-03 Thread Michael G Schwern
I'm coining a new term, fixage, like breakage. Fixage is when software fixes a bug and reveals bugs in dependent software. Test-Simple 0.77 (which includes Test::More) fixed a long standing bug by removing the annoying global $SIG{__DIE__} handler to trap test death. It would swallow the

Re: More information in NAs (was Re: CPANTesters considered harmful)

2008-03-03 Thread Michael G Schwern
David Golden wrote: On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 2:04 PM, Michael G Schwern [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * parsing for error messages from code like use 5.008 or from our being used in $VERSION strings prior to 5.005 It's that last one that concerns me, it's a bit heuristicy and I've been things

Re: Test-Simple 0.77 fixage

2008-03-03 Thread Michael G Schwern
chromatic wrote: On Monday 03 March 2008 11:20:54 Michael G Schwern wrote: Fixage is when software fixes a bug and reveals bugs in dependent software. Test-Simple 0.77 (which includes Test::More) fixed a long standing bug by removing the annoying global $SIG{__DIE__} handler to trap test

IEEE Testing Conference in Lillehammer

2008-03-03 Thread Michael G Schwern
The First International Conference on Software Testing, Verification and Validation is happening in Lillehammer, Norway April 9 - 11. The conference proper is April 10th and 11th, just after Go Open and the Oslo QA Hackathon. I think this is a good chance for Perl QA to crash the IEEE and get

Re: Is there even a C compiler?

2008-02-26 Thread Michael G Schwern
Yitzchak Scott-Thoennes wrote: On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 03:59:37PM -0800, Michael G Schwern wrote: MakeMaker uses ExtUtils::CBuilder-have_compiler() in it's tests. It's worked well with no complaints. It's an additional testing dependency, but it's a useful one and Module::Build

Re: Is there even a C compiler?

2008-02-25 Thread Michael G Schwern
Andy Armstrong wrote: Is there a generally approved way for an XS module to test for the existence of a C compiler before attempting to build? MakeMaker uses ExtUtils::CBuilder-have_compiler() in it's tests. It's worked well with no complaints. It's an additional testing dependency, but

Re: Wide character support for Test::More

2008-02-24 Thread Michael G Schwern
Aristotle Pagaltzis wrote: use 5.008; use strict; use warnings; use open ':std', ':locale'; use Test::More tests = 1; my $uni = \x{11e}; ok( $uni eq $uni, Testing $uni ); __END__ 1..1 Wide character in print at lib/Test/Builder.pm line 1252. ^^ after the above patch, gone There's

Wide character support for Test::More

2008-02-23 Thread Michael G Schwern
I just merged together a number of tickets having to do with Test::More not liking wide characters. use 5.008; use strict; use warnings; use Test::More tests = 1; my $uni = \x{11e}; ok( $uni eq $uni, Testing $uni ); __END__ 1..1 Wide character in print at lib/Test/Builder.pm line 1252. ok 1

Re: New assertions in Ruby

2008-02-13 Thread Michael G Schwern
Adrian Howard wrote: which isn't _too_ shabby, but doesn't help much with things like: ok_if { Foo-new-answer == 42 }; or ok_if { $Some_dynamic_var == 42 }; So I don't really think it's worth pursuing. Well, if we follow the logic of the assert2 author, you're just being SLOPPY

Re: New assertions in Ruby

2008-02-12 Thread Michael G Schwern
chromatic wrote: On Tuesday 12 February 2008 10:55:21 chromatic wrote: On Tuesday 12 February 2008 10:06:14 Eric Wilhelm wrote: How will you print the assertion code without a source filter? Show Source on Exception is fairly easy:

Re: Diagnostics

2008-02-12 Thread Michael G Schwern
David Landgren wrote: I wish you'd s/Got/Actual/ or Received. Got must die. Why's that? -- Hating the web since 1994.

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