On Wed, May 22, 2002 at 10:14:17AM -0700, Chris Angell wrote:
I have an idea for the int() function. I think it would be cool if it
returned false/undefined when the argument passed to it is a whole number.
For example:
int(1) or print argument passed to int() is something other than a
On Tue, May 21, 2002 at 11:03:42AM +0100, Nicholas Clark wrote:
I believe that the correct rule for single quote context in perl should have
been that backslash followed by anything is that thing.
That leaves Win32 users stuck in the same rut as now:
print
On Wed, May 15, 2002 at 07:38:12PM -0600, root wrote:
#BTW, is there some standard way of creating instances
#now?
Class::Classless and Class::Prototyped off the top of my head.
matches all three lines.
--
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Perl Quality Assurance [EMAIL PROTECTED] Kwalitee Is Job One
Consistency? I'm sorry, Sir, but you obviously chose the wrong door.
-- Jarkko Hietaniemi in [EMAIL PROTECTED]
:
use strict;
if my $bar = bar() {
...
}
$bar = baz(); # just fine, since it was declared above.
no error.
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Michael G. Schwern [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.pobox.com/~schwern/
Perl Quality Assurance [EMAIL PROTECTED] Kwalitee Is Job One
Fuck with me
lexical scoping all over the place. A lot of that
fakery can be removed from the language, yes, but in the case of block
conditions it seems that DWIMery should win over orthoginality.
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Perl Quality Assurance [EMAIL
:
while( my $line = FILE ) {
...
}
Will it be:
while FILE - $line {
...
}
or do we have to start wrapping things up?
And then there's this one:
if( my $foo = bar() ) {
...
}
how would that be written?
--
Michael G. Schwern [EMAIL PROTECTED]http
}
or is that what you ment by ignoring parser issues?
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Death was thought to be fatal.
-- Craig A. Berry in a05101002b8165afc6b62@[172.16.52.1]
in [EMAIL PROTECTED]
which, of course, we'll have in Perl 6:
loop {
.search .DESTROY;
}
Larry Wall: puppet of the military-industrial complex? Next on The
Conspiracy Zone. ;)
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Perl Quality Assurance
$caller = caller;
File.foreach('/usr/dict/words') {
print $caller eq caller ? ok : not ok
}
be ok or not ok? It has to be ok if mywhile is going to emulate a
while loop.
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Perl Quality Assurance
lacking connectivity. I expect he'll give us word at some
point what the schedule is.
They've got connectivity all right. We've been getting plenty of
drunken ramblings on IRC from folks on the cruise.
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Perl Quality
::export_to_level(...);
}
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Plus I remember being impressed with Ada because you could write an
infinite loop without a faked up condition. The idea being
on the above.
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This is my sig file. Is it not nify? Worship the sig file.
http://www.sluggy.com
find /usr/local/share/perl/ /usr/share
.
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Perl Quality Assurance [EMAIL PROTECTED] Kwalitee Is Job One
Your words scratch the back of my eyes!
http://sluggy.com/d/010204.html
privacy.
(yes, I know you can emulate class variables via package globals like
$Class::blah, but I'm trying to look at it in a more uniform point of
view so that you can fully treat Classes themselves as being objects)
Class::Data::Inheritable anyone? :)
--
Michael G. Schwern [EMAIL
to tcl or python, cuz I can never find clear information
about whether such an analog exists in those languages) is going away:
AUTOLOAD.
Going away? No way, it's SPREADING! We might wind up with AUTOGLOB, too.
http://dev.perl.org/rfc/324.pod
--
Michael G. Schwern [EMAIL PROTECTED]http
On Thu, Nov 08, 2001 at 04:21:57PM -0800, John Rudd wrote:
So, does this mean my other heart's desire of operator overloading might
be coming forth?
Yeah, that was mentioned in Apoc and Exewhatever 3.
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and god I hope so.
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distinguish between the normal
and in-place versions of functions without proliferating the number of
keywords.
chomp! $string;# how chomp() currently works
my $chomped_string = chomp $string;# like your chomped() function
--
Michael G. Schwern [EMAIL PROTECTED
.
Considering how infrequently the return value of chop() and chomp() is
really used, and how easy it is to emulate the current chop() and
chomp() behavior with substr() and s///, I don't think it'll be a big
loss.
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Perl6 Quality
On Tue, Oct 16, 2001 at 08:53:07PM -0500, David M. Lloyd wrote:
What about 'chomp?' for query but 'chomp' (no decoration) for operation?
Is chomp? just a bad example, or is there some utility in asking if a
string has already been chomped?
--
Michael G. Schwern [EMAIL PROTECTED]http
on and act on this
thing.
# What would this look like if it were sorted?
@sorted_list = sort @list;
# Sort this list
@list.sort
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Michael G. Schwern [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.pobox.com/~schwern/
Perl6 Quality Assurance [EMAIL PROTECTED] Kwalitee Is Job One
Me
is
indented. Like having s/^\s{4}//gm. So you get the equivalent of:
print
Sometimes\n.
form has to follow function\n.
all over the page.\n;
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Perl6 Quality Assurance
@array;
# Sort in place.
sort! @array;
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The eye opening delightful morning taste of expired cheese bits in sour milk!
On Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 09:50:53AM +0100, Richard Nuttall wrote:
my @images = qw( pic1 pic2 pic3) ^_ ('.jpg');
my @images = map { $_ _ '.jpg' } qw(pic1 pic2 pic3);
Hmmm, that's visually unappealing.
Just thinking out loud.
--
Michael G. Schwern [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.pobox.com
Apocalypse).
Okay. That's a cop-out. He's basically saying that you can write
Candthen and Corthen yourself as:
snip
I understand that much. What I don't quite get is the utility.
There's some hand-waving in the RFC about making parsers easier.
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Michael G. Schwern [EMAIL PROTECTED
. Schwern [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.pobox.com/~schwern/
Perl6 Quality Assurance [EMAIL PROTECTED] Kwalitee Is Job One
purl Hey, Schwern! THERE IS A HUGE GAZORGANSPLATTEDFARTMONGERING-
LIGHTENINGBEASTASAURSOPOD BEHIND YOU! RUN, BEFORE IT GAFLUMMOXES YOUR
INNARDLYBITS!
On Wed, Oct 03, 2001 at 02:26:47AM +0200, Bart Lateur wrote:
foreach_line { print } 'some/file';
You really like underscores, do you?
If all you got out of that thread was Schwern likes underscores then I
explained iterators really, really, really badly.
--
Michael G. Schwern
compatibility--and I don't think because it's mathematically
redundant is a valid reason to bust compatibility for a tiny little
function like log().
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On Sat, Sep 08, 2001 at 12:00:24PM -0400, Dan Sugalski wrote:
pow : Raise x to the y power
You forgot biff, zap and womp!
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;
GORK: if ( 1 ) {
print Tin ;
goto GORK if $b ^= 1;
print \n;
next GORK;
}
}
--
Michael G. Schwern [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.pobox.com/~schwern/
Perl6 Quality Assurance [EMAIL PROTECTED] Kwalitee Is Job One
I
file you touch
leaves one open to be seekable...
Simple, just tie it so it only opens upon being used.
OR, and I have no idea why I never thought of this before, instead of
magic filehandles, just peek in %INC and open that file.
--
Michael G. Schwern [EMAIL PROTECTED]http
On Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 01:10:58PM -0400, Dan Sugalski wrote:
At 10:03 PM 8/30/2001 -0400, Michael G Schwern wrote:
Thinking about what Zhang was saying about multiple-dispatch not being
inherently OO. I think he's sort of right. Multiple-dispatch need
not be confined to method lookups
symbol table.
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That which stirs me, stirs everything.
-- Squonk Opera, Spoon
, not any of the modules it loads.
use Some::Module;
use Fcntl qw(:seek);
seek Some::Module::DATA, 0, SEEK_SET;
@their_code = Some::Module::DATA;
which only works if Some::Module has an __END__ block... but that
shouldn't be hard to fix.
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Michael G. Schwern [EMAIL PROTECTED
. Schwern [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.pobox.com/~schwern/
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purl Hey, Schwern! THERE IS A HUGE GAZORGANSPLATTEDFARTMONGERING-
LIGHTENINGBEASTASAURSOPOD BEHIND YOU! RUN, BEFORE IT GAFLUMMOXES YOUR
INNARDLYBITS!
the existing Class::Multimethods module
against normal method calls.
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I'm spanking my yacht.
(Bar $bar) : multi {
...
}
sub foo (Baz $baz) : multi {
...
}
...etc...
Obviously, there would be no inheritance. Otherwise, it's
just like multiple-dispatch where there's no superclass.
Handy, if it's not too hard to implement.
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Michael G. Schwern [EMAIL
for this?
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I know you get this a lot, but what's an unholy fairy like you doing in a
mosque like this?
around
saying Everything will be perfect when Perl 6 comes!
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Michael G. Schwern [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.pobox.com/~schwern/
Perl6 Quality Assurance [EMAIL PROTECTED] Kwalitee Is Job One
Let's face it, said bearded Rusty Simmons, opening a can after the
race. This is a good
direction you get mind-bogglingly
silly things like finalize which I just learned of today.
I'm going to be giving a talk about just this sort of thing at JAOO to
a room full of Java people. Should be interesting.
--
Michael G. Schwern [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.pobox.com/~schwern/
Perl6
On Tue, Aug 28, 2001 at 10:47:35AM -0700, Damien Neil wrote:
On Tue, Aug 28, 2001 at 09:13:25AM -0400, Michael G Schwern wrote:
As the pendulum swings in the other direction you get mind-bogglingly
silly things like finalize which I just learned of today.
What's so silly about finalize
On Mon, Aug 27, 2001 at 10:58:00AM -0400, John Porter wrote:
You can, with C goto $foo; .
Problem is, it's *slower* (in p5 anyway) than the plain sub call.
By only 10%. Let's keep things in proportion here.
--
Michael G. Schwern [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.pobox.com/~schwern/
Perl6
On Mon, Aug 27, 2001 at 06:50:35PM -0400, Ken Fox wrote:
Michael G Schwern wrote:
Any time you want to implicitly pass @_, you can just as easily
*explicitly* pass it or use goto.
I never thought of using goto actually. goto $method; actually
looks clearer than the code I'm using
On Mon, Aug 27, 2001 at 06:02:50PM -0500, Garrett Goebel wrote:
From: Ken Fox [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Michael G Schwern wrote:
Any time you want to implicitly pass @_, you can just as easily
*explicitly* pass it or use goto.
goto does screw up caller... so I wouldn't say *anytime
, 'Foo::bar'. So
'$Foo::bar' would remain.
Besides, Foo::$bar looks funny.
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conway: unit of mind expansion. One Conway == ~20 lines of Perl code
without copying before references were
introduced, but that's not a problem anymore. foo(@_) or goto foo
works just fine.
I can't think of any reason why this feature is useful anymore, and it
can be a really confusing behavior, so what say we kill it in Perl 6?
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Michael G. Schwern [EMAIL
if Cotherwise exists.
PS -1 is true, just to make sure that's clear.
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Hold on while I slip into something a little more naked.
in the core?
;) And is this new debugger API like the current debugger API, DB.pm?
(Actually, I hope it isn't. Just making sure you're aware of what's
already there.)
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Perl6 Quality Assurance [EMAIL PROTECTED] Kwalitee
On Thu, Jul 12, 2001 at 06:56:25PM -0700, Dave Storrs wrote:
On Tue, 10 Jul 2001, Michael G Schwern wrote:
You can always just do this:
my Value $foo;
And $foo will act like a normal scalar taking anything (your PMAW).
If that's the goal, I'd vote that it be spelled
which way the rounding goes) to
reflect the inaccuracies involved. 63 cm +/- 0.5 cm.
I have no idea if this is what Dan was thinking.
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If you got
just speculate, I'm going to go play with this idea for a
while.
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Perl6 Quality Assurance [EMAIL PROTECTED] Kwalitee Is Job One
I was *meant* to mount your donuts.
in the parameter list (a la C++ function
templates)
- Provide a type hierarchy for all types (a la Haskell)
I think a type hierarchy makes much more sense than unleashing the hell
of templates on Perl.
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Schwern [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pobox.com/~schwern/
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a type.
We could have Perl go through heroics to try and find $foo's first
assignment and imply a type from that, but I think that will rapidly
get Messy and Surprising.
my $foo;# PMAW
PMAW?
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sometimes reap interesting ideas. :)
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GuRuThuG make a channel called #Perl, and infest it with joking and
fun it doesnt make alot
functions is you have to rewrite the
function N times (where N == the number of different types you want to
handle). Its certainly a possiblity, it just seems rather inelegant.
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Schwern [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pobox.com/~schwern/
Perl6 Quality Assurance [EMAIL PROTECTED] Kwalitee Is Job One
it will be very optional in Perl 6) what
problem is this solving?
And how would this solve the Mail problem put forth by Ziggy?
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Perl6 Quality Assurance [EMAIL PROTECTED] Kwalitee Is Job One
I'm not actually Kevin
On Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 12:41:42PM -0500, David L. Nicol wrote:
But would the game be worth the candle?
IMHO not really. Of all the potential quirks Perl's OO has, this is
one of the least quirky and least violated.
--
Michael G. Schwern [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.pobox.com/~schwern
On Tue, Jul 03, 2001 at 12:10:19AM +0200, Bart Schuller wrote:
The Apple Newton was programmed in NewtonScript, a prototype-based
language. http://www.cc.gatech.edu/~schoedl/projects/NewtonScript/ seems
like a nice overview.
Ahh, its derived from Self.
--
Michael G. Schwern [EMAIL
Ziggy came up with a good example of when object inheritance makes
life easier. Basically, there are times when you'd want to override
individual methods of individual objects. Example below.
- Forwarded message from Michael G Schwern [EMAIL PROTECTED] -
From: Michael G Schwern
On Tue, Jul 03, 2001 at 10:26:39AM +0100, Piers Cawley wrote:
Hmm... let me write it first would you? Shouldn't be *too* hard.
Suggestions for a real name for it?
Class::Anonymous? Class::Anon?
PS base has to take an array ref. Don't forget MI!
--
Michael G Schwern [EMAIL PROTECTED
to solve it and fails and how object inheritance
makes it really easy?
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what I can do.
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my anus yearns now
warm paste fills me happily
saturday morning
-- imploded
On Mon, Jul 02, 2001 at 04:18:31PM -0400, Michael G Schwern wrote:
On Mon, Jul 02, 2001 at 12:59:51PM -0700, David Whipp wrote:
Its not quite the same thing, but Java does have the concept of
anonymous classes (it names them 'inner' classes): Is Perl6 going
to have a similar concept?
Okay
On Mon, Jul 02, 2001 at 05:04:23PM -0400, John Porter wrote:
Michael G Schwern wrote:
Are they really necessary? You can get the same effect so many other
ways in Perl already,
That is a very unhelpful attitude.
We've already got everything and the kitchen sink proposed for Perl 6
On Mon, Jul 02, 2001 at 05:09:58PM -0400, John Porter wrote:
Perhaps this could be done by allowing to attach a name to q
lexical scope; perhaps this could be conflated with normal labels.
my package Foo {
sub bar { ... }
}
perhaps?
--
Michael G. Schwern
.
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Perl6 Quality Assurance [EMAIL PROTECTED] Kwalitee Is Job One
::NonDisk and
Foo::Disk classes, you might have parental $foo_disk and $foo_nondisk
objects from which you derive sub-objects which then inherit their
overridden methods.
All these techniques start to blur together.
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Perl6
if something should or should not be in the core.
Curried functions, AFAIK, only have the first trait. Then again, I
really don't understand curried functions. If it turns out they have
both traits, maybe we should relegate them to a core module instead.
--
Michael G Schwern [EMAIL PROTECTED
the heuristics
I'm using. I'm just trying to ease the amount of core work we'll have
to do else Perl 6 will never get done.
This particular feature we can do later if we need it.
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Perl6 Quality Assurance [EMAIL PROTECTED
Rather than stumbling around in the dark here, is anyone actually
experienced with object inheritance? Any Self programmers out there?
Someone that's actually used this technique often and understands what
works and what does? Any books/articles to recommend?
--
Michael G Schwern [EMAIL
::OBJECT?!
It might not work, Schwern. And even if it did, it might be really slow.
Somebody should write an implementation first, and then tackle efficiency.
This is a joke, right? I'm on Candid Camera.
--
Michael G Schwern [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pobox.com/~schwern/
Perl6 Quality
On Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 08:59:59AM -0400, John Porter wrote:
Michael G Schwern wrote:
Second, and perhaps more importantly, we can do this perfectly well
with a module. No hacks, no tricks, no filters.
Class::Object uses the mini-class technique (ie. auto-generated
classes
Sorry
On Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 09:50:55AM -0400, Dan Sugalski wrote:
At 10:32 PM 6/28/2001 -0400, Michael G Schwern wrote:
The rule of thumb has always been if you can do it in a module, don't
put it in the core. Well, we can do it in a module. Work on the
module, don't complicate the core
Class::Object
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://www.pobox.com/~schwern/src/Class-Object-0.01.tar.gz
There's really not much going on.
No, that's a lousy rule of thumb. The tradeoffs must be considered.
Otherwise we'd have Forth. (Or Lisp, ca. 1960.)
What's the trade-off here? It works, its efficient, the hacks are
well
LOOK AT
CLASS::OBJECT?!
They're NO SLOWER than normal objects, it uses all the normal OO
channels, it was very simple and small to implement and it WORKS!
Now, right this second, with perl 5.
I'll post the URL yet again...
http://www.pobox.com/~schwern/src/Class-Object-0.01.tar.gz
--
Michael G
-isa('Class::Object');
# $obj-new clones itself, so $same_obj-foo comes out as $obj-foo
my $same_obj = $obj-new;
print $same_obj-foo;
That's basically what you want, right?
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Perl6 Quality Assurance [EMAIL
Oh yeah. Look at Class::Classless.
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Perl6 Quality Assurance [EMAIL PROTECTED] Kwalitee Is Job One
Maybe they hooked you up with one of those ass-making magazines.
-- brian d. foy as misheard
we don't have to wait two years for Perl 6 to be able
to use it!
PPS A Class::Object proof-of-concept is en route to CPAN.
http://www.pobox.com/~schwern/src/Class-Object-0.01.tar.gz if its not
there yet.
--
Michael G. Schwern [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.pobox.com/~schwern/
Perl6 Quality
a superimposed scalar. ;) Not something you
want to have to do by choice.
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Our business in life is not to succeed but to continue to fail in high spirits
(Employee $sex);
}
but delegation is probably the way to go.
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Perl6 Quality Assurance [EMAIL PROTECTED] Kwalitee Is Job One
purl Hey, Schwern! THERE IS A HUGE GAZORGANSPLATTEDFARTMONGERING
(@args). Ahh, the magic
of closures.
Wasn't Damian working on something like this? I looked at his
delegation stuff in perl5+i, but it didn't seem to have anything to do
with this sort of delegation.
--
Michael G. Schwern [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.pobox.com/~schwern
of them, probably because they mesh so well we don't even
think about it. You could consider functions which have default
arguments as polymorphic, then there's lots and lots of polymorphism
in Perl. But I digress.
--
Michael G. Schwern [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.pobox.com/~schwern
be
safe to assume that an array of type 'int' (or some other fixed-width
type) will be optimized to a vector.
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as easy as you think.
http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/poop-group
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.
Alzabo, Class::DBI, Tangram, etc...
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Perl6 Quality Assurance [EMAIL PROTECTED] Kwalitee Is Job One
for extremely simple joins.
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Perl6 Quality Assurance [EMAIL PROTECTED] Kwalitee Is Job One
by holding the capability.
Getting into details about this doesn't make much sense as we don't
yet know what the new symbol table interface will look like.
--
Michael G Schwern [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pobox.com/~schwern/
Perl6 Quality Assurance [EMAIL PROTECTED] Kwalitee Is Job
.
--
Michael G. Schwern [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.pobox.com/~schwern/
Perl6 Quality Assurance [EMAIL PROTECTED] Kwalitee Is Job One
My feet hurt... with destiny!
http://sluggy.com/d/010204.html
On Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 10:28:41AM -0400, John Porter wrote:
Michael G Schwern wrote:
It will have to go for strict classes. @ISA will have to be locked.
strict classes?
strongly typed class?
Can a man make up gibberish in peace? ;)
Basically, any class which wants to be type-checked
On Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 07:06:49PM -0700, Dave Storrs wrote:
But if we did, how could we hope to get a good new Star Trek
series? :
You're still hoping for a new, good Star Trek series??? You must be a
Cubs fan.
--
Michael G. Schwern [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.pobox.com
On Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 01:37:23AM -0500, Me wrote:
BD languages
What's BD?
Bondage and Discipline, scum! You're not a good enough programmer to
be trusted not to make mistakes! Now drop and give me fifty!
--
Michael G. Schwern [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.pobox.com/~schwern
;
but TMTOWTDI.
I am a bit worried about having to do so much pointer copying to
support this feature.
PS 'it' could take many forms
--
Michael G. Schwern [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.pobox.com/~schwern/
Perl6 Quality Assurance [EMAIL PROTECTED] Kwalitee Is Job One
Monkey tennis
are
declared strictly.
--
Michael G Schwern [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pobox.com/~schwern/
Perl6 Quality Assurance [EMAIL PROTECTED] Kwalitee Is Job One
. Schwern [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.pobox.com/~schwern/
Perl6 Quality Assurance [EMAIL PROTECTED] Kwalitee Is Job One
sort God kill 9, @ARGV;
-checking. Doesn't do squat for
basic logic errors, for example.
--
Michael G. Schwern [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.pobox.com/~schwern/
Perl6 Quality Assurance [EMAIL PROTECTED] Kwalitee Is Job One
Death follows me like a wee followey thing.
-- Quakeman
-of-concept thingy to scan
for constructs which make code unpredictable here:
http://www.pobox.com/~schwern/src/B-Scan-0.01.tar.gz
Couldn't we still have a 'be-super-strict' flag that would throw
warnings upon encountering a construct that would interfere with
compile-time checking? Make
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