On Mon, 2010-08-30 at 15:42 -0400, Vick Khera wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 10:08 AM, Marco Colombo wrote:
> > Well, my idea was more along the line of "automatically try to acquire a
> > reasonable amount of the available resources".
> >
>
> I challenge you to defined "reasonable" in a manner
On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 10:08 AM, Marco Colombo wrote:
> Well, my idea was more along the line of "automatically try to acquire a
> reasonable amount of the available resources".
>
I challenge you to defined "reasonable" in a manner that will satisfy
more than 50% of the users in all possible use
On 12/08/2010 03:43, Tom Lane wrote:
Marco Colombo writes:
It's a matter of correctness: I see PG as a high
performance database system. Allowing to start it in awfully suboptimal
conditions it's no different from allowing '-00-00' as a date: it
may give you the idea you did the right thing
Well in that sense, Oracle does cling to some old designs that suck for
most people's use-cases these days; most notably arbitrary-length indexable
text fields. In most Oracle-related applications you are stuck with
either an indexable nvarchar(4096) or an unindexable CLOB field (which
also requir
On Thu, Aug 5, 2010 at 10:41 PM, John Gage wrote:
> P. P. S. You want to get to grandma's house. You want to drive a car. You
> want to learn to drive the car quickly.
You're driving to grandma's house because she needs cataract surgery.
You don't want to pay the surgeon, you just want to do it
On Fri, 13 Aug 2010 14:17:17 +0800
Craig Ringer wrote:
> On 13/08/10 08:38, Tatsuo Ishii wrote:
> >> It's slower than smaller numbers, and if you actually dirty a
> >> significant portion of it you can have a checkpoint that takes
> >> hours to sync, completely trashing system responsiveness for
On 13/08/10 08:38, Tatsuo Ishii wrote:
>> It's slower than smaller numbers, and if you actually dirty a
>> significant portion of it you can have a checkpoint that takes hours to
>> sync, completely trashing system responsiveness for a good portion of it.
>
> So how much is the reasonal upper li
> It's slower than smaller numbers, and if you actually dirty a
> significant portion of it you can have a checkpoint that takes hours to
> sync, completely trashing system responsiveness for a good portion of it.
So how much is the reasonal upper limit of shared_buffers at this
point? If it's o
On Thu, 2010-08-12 at 20:01 -0400, Greg Smith wrote:
> Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> > "Can we just say in the docs say 25% of memory to shared_buffers"
> > Yes, in fact we can. With the caveat of Windows, the reality is this
> > isn't going to hurt nearly as much as a untuned version of PostgreSQL
> >
Ma Sivakumar wrote:
There was also a point about making the installer create a recommended
postgresql.conf file.
After installation when the server is started for the first time, try
to start with postgresql.conf.suggested
If it starts successfully, let the user know that the server is
started
Tatsuo Ishii wrote:
What's the problem with 18GB shared_buffers exactly
It's slower than smaller numbers, and if you actually dirty a
significant portion of it you can have a checkpoint that takes hours to
sync, completely trashing system responsiveness for a good portion of it.
--
Greg Smi
> With modern servers often shipping with 72GB of RAM now, that would make
> shared_buffers set to 18GB. This is an absolutely disastrous setting
> for PostgreSQL in its current state; I'm seeing servers with that much
> RAM that suffer enormous problems with a far lower shared_buffers than
>
Joshua D. Drake wrote:
"Can we just say in the docs say 25% of memory to shared_buffers"
Yes, in fact we can. With the caveat of Windows, the reality is this
isn't going to hurt nearly as much as a untuned version of PostgreSQL
will.
With modern servers often shipping with 72GB of RAM now, t
About the shared buffers size configuration discussion:
Like a few others here, I've spent a sizable proportion of my career
dealing with this issue (not with PG, with other products I've developed
that had a similar in-memory page pool).
There are roughly six stages in understanding this pro
On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 8:42 PM, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
>
> GOOD PERFORMANCE IS ALWAYS RELIANT ON PROPER HARDWARE, DATABASE DESIGN
> AND APPLICATION ARCHITECTURE. THIS TABLE IS A HINT ONLY. YOU WILL LIKELY
> HAVE TO TUNE BEYOND THIS.
>
> shared_buffers = 25% of available memory
> work_mem = 2-4MB
On Thu, 2010-08-12 at 11:59 +0530, Ma Sivakumar wrote:
> What does a migrating PHP/MySQL user do? If MySQL performs fast just
> out of box (I have not used MySQL), what is different there? Do MySQL
> defaults give better performance? How do they arrive at those
> defaults?
I have been watching th
On Thursday 12. August 2010 08.29.13 Ma Sivakumar wrote:
> What does a migrating PHP/MySQL user do? If MySQL performs fast just
> out of box (I have not used MySQL), what is different there? Do MySQL
> defaults give better performance? How do they arrive at those
> defaults?
>
> Or is it a complet
On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 12:37 PM, Scott Marlowe wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 11:41 PM, Greg Smith wrote:
> > Sandeep Srinivasa wrote:
> >>
> >> Maybe a tabular form would be nice - "work_mem" under...
> >
> > The problem with work_mem in particular is that the useful range depends
> > quite
On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 11:41 PM, Greg Smith wrote:
> Sandeep Srinivasa wrote:
>>
>> Maybe a tabular form would be nice - "work_mem" under...
>
> The problem with work_mem in particular is that the useful range depends
> quite a bit on how complicated you expect the average query running to be.
On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 10:53 AM, Greg Smith wrote:
> I'm happy that we've already made
> a big step forward in helping new users here in that update. At least now
> DBAs used to other systems who go looking for the "how do I set the size of
> the cache?" knob will stumble on reasonable advice in
Sandeep Srinivasa wrote:
Maybe a tabular form would be nice - "work_mem" under...
The problem with work_mem in particular is that the useful range depends
quite a bit on how complicated you expect the average query running to
be. pgtune tries to model this using an input of what type of
ap
On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 10:53 AM, Greg Smith wrote:
>
> If only it were that easy. 25%, but only on a dedicated server, don't go
> above 8GB, limit to much less than that on Windows, and be extremely careful
> if you're writing heavily lest large checkpoints squash you. Giving simple
> advice th
Ma Sivakumar wrote:
There can be a stronger and more prominent hint / recommendation in
postgresql.conf file, in install README, Resource Consumption section
of manual
(http://www.postgresql.org/docs/8.4/interactive/runtime-config-resource.html)
and other appropriate places
What you might
2010/8/12 Tom Lane :
>
> Unfortunately, there are quite a few of us for whom "correctness"
> doesn't mean "automatically try to eat all the resources available".
> Your view of what is useful behavior is far too narrow-minded ...
The point is, some one installing PostgreSQL for the first time is n
Marco Colombo writes:
> It's a matter of correctness: I see PG as a high
> performance database system. Allowing to start it in awfully suboptimal
> conditions it's no different from allowing '-00-00' as a date: it
> may give you the idea you did the right thing, but most of the time you
>
On 11/08/2010 17:34, Greg Smith wrote:
The problem here is that the amount of shared memory a system can
allocate is hard to discover any other way than starting the server and
seeing if it works. So doing what you advise will leave the database
unable to start on any system that hasn't gotten th
Marco Colombo wrote:
Well, many defaults are hardcoded into a file now. I'd like to see
'auto' among possible values of parameters, e.g.:
with PG wild guessing reasonable values based on system specs. It may
be a awful piece of code (getting system info is very platform
specific), and sometimes
Daniel Verite wrote:
On the other hand, some of the notes already mentioned on the wiki, such as
for example:
http://www.xach.com/aolserver/mysql-to-postgresql.html
...are so outdated and/or bad that they're probably counter-productive.
...
IMHO such contents should simply be scraped/unlinked.
On 11/08/2010 04:01, Greg Smith wrote:
3. The default configuration settings for PostgreSQL are not optimal
for performance. Can there be a recommended configuration file in the
installation (assuming certain amount of RAM and processor type) ?
This doesn't work because there are many different
Greg Smith wrote:
> The problem is that few discussions happen on these lists for things
> like "how do I get used to PostgreSQL after growing up on MySQL?" And
> that material will never be appropriate for the PostgreSQL
> documentation. I would highly encourage people to migrate the
சிவகுமார் மா wrote:
1. Almost all webhosting providers have MySQL support, but PostgreSQL
support is available from only a few who also have MySQL support.
Hence MySQL is universal and PostgreSQL is present as also available.
http://www.postgresql.org/support/professional_hosting lists far m
Randal L. Schwartz wrote:
Do not overemphasize the example mode at the cost of presenting concepts
or structure. You need all three.
Hmm I recently had to find out the various options to get values from a tuple
via SPI - referred by docs to the contrib examples :-(
Docs did not help and the ex
"Joshua J. Kugler" writes:
> On Monday 09 August 2010, Joshua D. Drake elucidated thus:
>> The actual requirement is:
>>
>> Thou shall not use a privelaged user, e.g; Administrator or UID = 0.
>>
>> Not only is that a reasonable default, MySQL is broken because of
>> theirs.
> Hmm...I've always
On Monday 09 August 2010, Joshua D. Drake elucidated thus:
> On Mon, 2010-08-09 at 10:09 -0600, Scott Ribe wrote:
> > It's not a requirement, just a reasonable default.
>
> The actual requirement is:
>
> Thou shall not use a privelaged user, e.g; Administrator or UID = 0.
>
> Not only is that a rea
On Monday 09 August 2010, Randal L. Schwartz elucidated thus:
> > "Joshua" == Joshua J Kugler writes:
>
> Joshua> I'll add in a "me too" only to say that I am someone that
> learns Joshua> best by example.
>
> Keep in mind though that there are three primary learning modes:
> - example
> - con
On Mon, 2010-08-09 at 10:09 -0600, Scott Ribe wrote:
> It's not a requirement, just a reasonable default.
The actual requirement is:
Thou shall not use a privelaged user, e.g; Administrator or UID = 0.
Not only is that a reasonable default, MySQL is broken because of
theirs.
Joshua D. Drake
-
> "Joshua" == Joshua J Kugler writes:
Joshua> I'll add in a "me too" only to say that I am someone that learns
Joshua> best by example.
Keep in mind though that there are three primary learning modes:
- example
- concept
- structure
Do not overemphasize the example mode at the cost of prese
It's not a requirement, just a reasonable default.
On Aug 7, 2010, at 11:09 AM, Martin Gainty wrote:
> 3)eliminate the requirement to create a postgres user to execute the server
> binaries..I guess i never understood that requirement
--
Scott Ribe
scott_r...@elevated-dev.com
http://www.elev
On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 2:28 PM, Michael A. Peters
wrote:
>
>
> I have 4x6 cards that I write the postgresql way of doing what I use to do
> with MySQL so that I can easily reference them when I need to.
>
> Should I sit down and read a book and go through the exercises?
> Yes. But I need to get stu
>
> On Aug 8, 2010, at 2:45 AM, Torsten Zühlsdorff wrote:
>
*snip*
>
> I understand and appreciate your position. Thanks for the
> clarification.
>
> While I believe that this thread has, for all intents and purposes,
> run its course (and I look forward to reading the documentation it
> informs)
On 09/08/10 14:54, Sandeep Srinivasa wrote:
>
> The way I see it - for those who want to truly learn, there is the
> documentation. For those who dont, there are ORMs.
Ha, I wish!
Despite being rather comfortable with SQL I've been using the Hibernate
ORM system in a project to try to reduce so
Sandeep Srinivasa wrote on 09.08.2010 08:54:
The way I see it - for those who want to truly learn, there is the
documentation. For those who dont, there are ORMs.
Another of those ORM myths ;)
ORMs are not an alternative to learning SQL or understand how a DBMS works.
You need to be good at SQ
On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 12:15 PM, Allan Kamau wrote:
>
> There may be worry of "copy and paste" without proper understanding of
> the code and concepts but this may be mitigated IMHO by fact that it
> seems unlikely that when presented with a case to solve, simple "copy
> and paste" of several com
On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 1:51 AM, Scott Frankel wrote:
>
> On Aug 8, 2010, at 2:45 AM, Torsten Zühlsdorff wrote:
>
>> Scott Frankel schrieb:
>>>
>>> On Aug 6, 2010, at 6:13 AM, Torsten Zühlsdorff wrote:
John Gage schrieb:
> On reflection, I think what is needed is a handbook that
On Aug 8, 2010, at 2:45 AM, Torsten Zühlsdorff wrote:
Scott Frankel schrieb:
On Aug 6, 2010, at 6:13 AM, Torsten Zühlsdorff wrote:
John Gage schrieb:
On reflection, I think what is needed is a handbook that features
cut and paste code to do the things with Postgres that people do
today w
Scott Frankel schrieb:
On Aug 6, 2010, at 6:13 AM, Torsten Zühlsdorff wrote:
John Gage schrieb:
On reflection, I think what is needed is a handbook that features cut
and paste code to do the things with Postgres that people do today
with MySQL.
Everyone of my trainees want such thing - fo
; aucune responsabilité pour le contenu fourni.
>
>
>
>
>> Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2010 14:11:29 +0100
>> From: r...@iol.ie
>> To: masivaku...@gmail.com
>> CC: pgsql-general@postgresql.org
>> Subject: Re: [GENERAL] MySQL versus Postgres
>>
>> On 07/08/2010 11:24
2010/8/7 சிவகுமார் மா
> 3. The default configuration settings for PostgreSQL are not optimal
> for performance. Can there be a recommended configuration file in the
> installation (assuming certain amount of RAM and processor type) ?
>
> Ma Sivakumar
> http://masivakumar.blogspot.com
>
>
pgtune
gt; From: r...@iol.ie
> To: masivaku...@gmail.com
> CC: pgsql-general@postgresql.org
> Subject: Re: [GENERAL] MySQL versus Postgres
>
> On 07/08/2010 11:24, சிவகுமார் மா wrote:
> > 2010/8/7 Alban Hertroys:
> >> On 7 Aug 2010, at 5:19, Sandeep Srinivasa wrote:
> >&
On 07/08/2010 11:24, சிவகுமார் மா wrote:
2010/8/7 Alban Hertroys:
On 7 Aug 2010, at 5:19, Sandeep Srinivasa wrote:
+1 on this.
This is very interesting from the point-of-view of transitioning MySQL webapps to
Postgres. The truth is that for a lot of people, MySQL is their first DB (because of
On 8/7/2010 4:24 AM, சிவகுமார் மா wrote:
4. A pet name
Is it possible to have a pet name which can be used in casual
conversation easily?
PG
--
Sent via pgsql-general mailing list (pgsql-general@postgresql.org)
To make changes to your subscription:
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2010/8/7 Alban Hertroys :
> On 7 Aug 2010, at 5:19, Sandeep Srinivasa wrote:
>
>> +1 on this.
>> This is very interesting from the point-of-view of transitioning MySQL
>> webapps to Postgres. The truth is that for a lot of people, MySQL is their
>> first DB (because of loads of pre-existing softw
On 7 Aug 2010, at 5:19, Sandeep Srinivasa wrote:
> +1 on this.
> This is very interesting from the point-of-view of transitioning MySQL
> webapps to Postgres. The truth is that for a lot of people, MySQL is their
> first DB (because of loads of pre-existing software. Refer to my thread
> "Which
On Sat, Aug 7, 2010 at 12:29 AM, Joshua J. Kugler wrote:
>
> So, a "getting started" guide and/or cookbook would be great. Another
> cool idea: a MySQL -> PostgreSQL migration guide (I'm sure there's
> already one out there) that would show "To do *this* MySQL function in
> PostgreSQL, use this f
On Friday 06 August 2010, Scott Marlowe elucidated thus:
> >> Everyone of my trainees want such thing - for databases, for other
> >> programming-languages etc. It's the worst thing you can give them.
> >> The< will copy, they will paste and they will understand nothing.
> >> Learning is the way to
On 06/08/2010 21:15, Peter Bex wrote:
On Fri, Aug 06, 2010 at 02:09:43PM -0600, Scott Marlowe wrote:
I'm all in favor of a nice tutorial section in the docs. But I
certainly don't want pgsql docs to mimick the mysql docs method of
using a tutorial method for most of the beginner information. I
On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 2:30 PM, Peter Bex wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 06, 2010 at 02:25:27PM -0600, Scott Marlowe wrote:
>> For an extra added bonus, show a click-path from the front page
>> mysql.com to the documentation. I gave up and just entered
>> mysql.com/documentation which kicked off the search
On Fri, Aug 06, 2010 at 02:25:27PM -0600, Scott Marlowe wrote:
> For an extra added bonus, show a click-path from the front page
> mysql.com to the documentation. I gave up and just entered
> mysql.com/documentation which kicked off the search engine and let me
> click somewhere into the 5.1 docs.
On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 2:15 PM, Peter Bex wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 06, 2010 at 02:09:43PM -0600, Scott Marlowe wrote:
>> I'm all in favor of a nice tutorial section in the docs. But I
>> certainly don't want pgsql docs to mimick the mysql docs method of
>> using a tutorial method for most of the begi
In my fondest moments, I consider myself a nerd, and when I do I think
I am completely cool.
On Aug 6, 2010, at 9:38 PM, zach cruise wrote:
john, you're running up against a culture here, and trying to answer
the question: how to make a nerd cool? answer: it can't be done.
--
Sent via pgsql-
On Fri, Aug 06, 2010 at 02:09:43PM -0600, Scott Marlowe wrote:
> I'm all in favor of a nice tutorial section in the docs. But I
> certainly don't want pgsql docs to mimick the mysql docs method of
> using a tutorial method for most of the beginner information. It's so
> dang hard to find anything
On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 1:38 PM, zach cruise wrote:
> john, you're running up against a culture here, and trying to answer
> the question: how to make a nerd cool? answer: it can't be done.
I'm all in favor of a nice tutorial section in the docs. But I
certainly don't want pgsql docs to mimick th
john, you're running up against a culture here, and trying to answer
the question: how to make a nerd cool? answer: it can't be done.
--
Sent via pgsql-general mailing list (pgsql-general@postgresql.org)
To make changes to your subscription:
http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-general
On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 11:02 AM, Scott Frankel wrote:
>
> On Aug 6, 2010, at 6:13 AM, Torsten Zühlsdorff wrote:
>
>> John Gage schrieb:
>>
>>> On reflection, I think what is needed is a handbook that features cut and
>>> paste code to do the things with Postgres that people do today with MySQL.
>>
On Aug 6, 2010, at 6:13 AM, Torsten Zühlsdorff wrote:
John Gage schrieb:
On reflection, I think what is needed is a handbook that features
cut and paste code to do the things with Postgres that people do
today with MySQL.
Everyone of my trainees want such thing - for databases, for other
I would also enquire whether one thinks that the examples should be
removed from the Postgres documentation for fear that they may be cut
and pasted into an application?
John
On Aug 6, 2010, at 3:13 PM, Torsten Zühlsdorff wrote:
John Gage schrieb:
On reflection, I think what is needed is
If I recall correctly William Shakespeare did a ton of cutting and
pasting. And he was not alone. My Fair Lady, one of the most
successful Broadway shows ever, contains whole sections from Shaw's
play.
We learn by imitation. I am not suggesting that once you cut and
paste you call it q
I only said this to criticize it. And I agree completely with Thomas.
John
On Aug 6, 2010, at 2:09 PM, Thomas Kellerer wrote:
John Gage wrote on 06.08.2010 04:41:
But most people, including myself, don't even want to know the
documentation exists (for anything). We just want to plunge in an
John Gage schrieb:
On reflection, I think what is needed is a handbook that features cut
and paste code to do the things with Postgres that people do today with
MySQL.
Everyone of my trainees want such thing - for databases, for other
programming-languages etc. It's the worst thing you can g
On reflection, I think what is needed is a handbook that features cut
and paste code to do the things with Postgres that people do today
with MySQL.
Such a handbook, featured as the first section of the documentation,
would take readers through the steps necessary to set up an online
shop
John Gage wrote on 06.08.2010 04:41:
But most people, including myself, don't even want to know the
documentation exists (for anything). We just want to plunge in and do it.
That just doesn't work and is an attitude that won't get you far.
In order to do things properly you need to learn and u
On 6 August 2010 16:08, Torsten Zühlsdorff wrote:
>
> I receive my "oh wow" when i do the same things in Postgres like in MySQL:
> Writting some procedures, triggers and use foreign key. The "oh wow" was
> that it just *works*. After some years of using MySQL this is a very
> uncommon feeling, ev
John Gage schrieb:
So, perhaps what is needed in any sort of battle with MySQL is an
introductory documentation that gives specific examples of how to
achieve "oh wow!" worthwhile results quickly with Postgres.
I receive my "oh wow" when i do the same things in Postgres like in
MySQL: Writti
2010/8/6 Rikard Bosnjakovic :
> On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 04:41, John Gage wrote:
>
> [...]
>> So, perhaps what is needed in any sort of battle with MySQL is an
>> introductory documentation that gives specific examples of how to achieve
>> "oh wow!" worthwhile results quickly with Postgres.
>
> Bruc
On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 04:41, John Gage wrote:
[...]
> So, perhaps what is needed in any sort of battle with MySQL is an
> introductory documentation that gives specific examples of how to achieve
> "oh wow!" worthwhile results quickly with Postgres.
Bruce Momjian's book is an excellent primer:
Postgres has a very gentle learning curve. By which I mean that it
takes an extremely long time, perhaps a lifetime, to fully appreciate
it. On the other hand, it is definitely worth it. Each new discovery
is worth the effort and the wait.
But most people, including myself, don't even wa
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