Re: [GENERAL] Linux v.s. Mac OS-X Performance
On Nov 27, 2007, at 8:36 PM, Gregory Stark wrote: I think (but I'm not sure) that the kernel in OSX comes from BSD. Kind of. Mach is still running underneath (and a lot of the app APIs use it directly) but there is a BSD 'personality' above it which (AIUI) is big parts of FreeBSD ported to run on Mach. So when you use the Unix APIs you're going through that. -Doug ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [GENERAL] Last modification time
Johan Vromans [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Doug McNaught [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Yeah, LISTEN/NOTIFY is definitely a lighter-weight solution--I didn't think of that before. LISTEN/NOTIFY looks like a synchronisation mechanism. You can notify a subscriber that something happened. But in my case, the report generating program runs only occasionally and will not be permanently running subscribed. I'm not sure how to use LISTEN/NOTIFY for that. Well you need something trigger-based, because I don't think it would be useful to look at modification dates on the database files or anything like that (checkpoints, vacuum, rolled back transactions etc would change those even when the user-visible data didn't change). You could have the trigger update a single-row table and have the report generator (or a wrapper) poll for it, or you could have it send a NOTIFY to a little program sitting on a connection, which would then kick off the report generator. -Doug ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faq
Re: [GENERAL] Last modification time
Johan Vromans [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Greetings, For a big application, I want to generate reports from the database and keep these on-line as long as they reflect the actual contents of the database. I only want to regenerate the reports when needed, i.e., when the database contents have changed. I'm sure PostgreSQL can tell me when the last update has been COMMITted but until now I haven't been able to find out how. I must have used the wrong search terms... Can anyone tell me how to find the last update time of a database? There isn't any out-of-the-box way that I know of. I would put an AFTER trigger on all the tables concerned that inserts a row into an audit table. Your report generator can then run periodically, see if there are any new audit entries, generate reports, and clean out the audit table (if desired). Note that the audit table may grow very fast and need vacuuming a lot if you clean it out. Audit tables are useful for other things too, if you can afford them. -Doug ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: don't forget to increase your free space map settings
Re: [GENERAL] Last modification time
Johan Vromans [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Doug McNaught [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I would put an AFTER trigger on all the tables concerned that inserts a row into an audit table. [...] Audit tables are useful for other things too, if you can afford them. I think auditing is much too heavy for something simple as finding the last modification timestamp. Yes, it may be the only alternative, but a heavy one... Yeah, LISTEN/NOTIFY is definitely a lighter-weight solution--I didn't think of that before. -Doug ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [GENERAL] Last modification time
Philippe Ferreira [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Yeah, LISTEN/NOTIFY is definitely a lighter-weight solution--I didn't think of that before. Hi, I'm interested too in using this method ! Can anyone give a simple example of how to use/implement it ? Or good links to clear/quick documentation about these functions ? The online PostgreSQL docs at postgresql.org are quite good. -Doug ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [GENERAL] Sequences/defaults and pg_dump
Bruno Wolff III [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Tue, Feb 07, 2006 at 15:28:31 +0300, Nikolay Samokhvalov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The real situation would be as the following. I want to use some algorithm to hide real number of registered users in my table user. So, I don't want to use simple sequence, when every new registered user in my system can guess what is the number of registered users simply observing his ID. So, I use following (N and M are said to be relatively prime.) The above method isn't very secure. You might be better off using a block cipher in counter mode, depending on how badly you want to keep the number of users secret. Even that won't be foolproof as the users might cooperate with each other to estimate how many of them there are. Or, just start your sequence counting at 100. Or use bigint and start it at a billion. -Doug ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend
Re: [GENERAL] plpgsql direct from C?
James Harper [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Is there an API method to be able to execute pl/pgsql (or any other language) code directly from C? Eg (please excuse the line wrapping, and the fact that this doesn't represent a case where this would actually be useful!) result = PQexecPL(plpgsql, IF $1 = 'xyzzy THEN SELECT * FROM fnord END IF;, xyzzy); Not currently. Any server-side code has to be in a function, so such an API would have to create a temporary function (which you might or might not have privileges to do), call it, and then drop it. It's theoretically possible I guess, but would be ugly and slow. -Doug ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faq
Re: [GENERAL] Automating backup
Richard Sydney-Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
pch := pchar('pg_dump -C -h '+host+' -U '+usr+' -p '+pswd+ ' -f
'+bckup_path+' '+dbase);
to postgres.
as the operator is obviously logged in how do I
(1) trap their user id
(2) Send the call to pg_dump without knowing their password?
I expect this is a well worn route and am hoping not to have to
reinvent a wheel.
I don't think it's well-worn at all--everyone I've ever heard of
runs pg_dump from a cron script.
Why not have a shell script run by the operator that runs pg_dump and
then calls psql to insert the log record (assuming the dump succeeds)?
Putting the logic inside of the database doesn't seem to buy you
anything AFAICS.
-Doug
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 4: Have you searched our list archives?
http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [GENERAL] PostgreSQL + hibernate
Myatluk Andrey [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi, Chris! I've set the sequence owner to my database user. It hasn't changed anything. I guess I have to connect through psql as user and then see what happens. If it fails, what could be my next step? That would depend on the error message you get. -Doug ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [GENERAL] How to change the default database for a user
Alexander Farber [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Hello,
I've created a user and a database both wrongly named phpbb.
After that I have renamed both to punbb using ALTER DATABASE
and ALTER USER. Now everything works fine, except I always
have to specify the database when connecting (both using psql or
the PQconnectdb() from my C-program):
h754814:afarber {103} psql -U punbb
psql: FATAL: database phpbb does not exist
psql uses your Unix username as the default database if you don't
specify one.
-Doug
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to
choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not
match
Re: [GENERAL] How to change the default database for a user
Alexander Farber [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
but I do specify the database username:
h754814:afarber {109} psql --help | grep -w user
-U NAME database user name (default: phpbb)
h754814:afarber {110} psql -U punbb
psql: FATAL: database phpbb does not exist
And it wants to connect to a wrong database
(phpbb instead of punbb)
I was talking about the name of the database, not the user name in the
database. The former defaults to the same as your Unix username
(e.g. if I log in as 'doug' psql will try to connect me to a database
called 'doug' if I don't supply a database name). The PGDATABASE
environment variable overrides this. Are you sure it's not set?
Anyway, you should always supply the database name explicitly when you
connect--it's a lot safer.
-Doug
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to
choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not
match
Re: [GENERAL] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI Installer for
Devrim GUNDUZ [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: http://pgfoundry.org/projects/pgnixinstaller/ We are actively looking for developers for the project. Please drop me an e-mail if you want to join this project. We will use Python, so you need to be a Python guy to join the project. We are in planning phase, if you join us earlier, we will be able to share more ideas. What value does this bring to systems that have a good package system and up-to-date repositories? I can install Postgres today on Ubuntu using a GUI tool, and install another GUI tool to configure and adminsiter it. For systems like Solaris I can see it maybe being a win. Are you going to work with the underlying system's package manager, or put everything in /usr/local? -Doug ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI
Devrim GUNDUZ [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Mon, 2006-01-30 at 20:03 -0500, Doug McNaught wrote: What value does this bring to systems that have a good package system and up-to-date repositories? I can install Postgres today on Ubuntu using a GUI tool, and install another GUI tool to configure and adminsiter it. You can install, but what if you need different configure options than the package provides? This means a rebuild of the package. Instead, we will build and install that package via the installer. That's actually a pretty cool idea--compile and generate debs/rpms that reflect the user's choices, then install them. But the dependency on a compiler adds a twist of complexity--sorry, you need to install the following system packages (gcc, etc) before you can install Postgres as you've configured it. Not horrible, but perhaps intimidating for the GUI crowd? :) Is gcc in the bog-standard default install on FC these days? Certainly you can install pre-built binaries without a compiler, and let the user choose database location, autovacuum settings and stuff like that. Good luck! -Doug ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI
Marc G. Fournier [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Tue, 31 Jan 2006, Devrim GUNDUZ wrote: On my RHEL boxes, I do never ever recompile the kernel since Red Hat does not provide support if I do so :) Is everything 'loadable modules' then? I can't imagine you have some mammoth kernel running on your system, do you? with every conceivable piece of hardware configured in? Yes, vendor kernels are very modular--most drivers, packet filtering, scsi etc are all loadable modules. You can of course build your own kernel with only the drivers you need built-in, but it usually doesn't make very much difference. The module system works, in general, extremely well. -Doug ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [GENERAL] Viewing Database Scheme
Rich Shepard [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: When installing the application I specified the database name as 'contacts' (not very innovative or clever, but descriptive). When I open the database with 'psql contacts' and ask to have the tables dumped (with \d), they go streaming by on the display. Of course, the bash 'tee' or 'less' commands don't work to allow me to capture the stream to a file or page through the output. You can either use 'pg_dump --schema-only' as another poster suggested, or use the '\o' command in psql. -Doug ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend
Re: [GENERAL] Viewing Database Scheme
Rich Shepard [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Sat, 28 Jan 2006, Eric B. Ridge wrote: Again, you can't use redirection via the psql prompt. But you can do it via your shell command line: $ psql -c \dt xrms.tables Well, that doesn't seem to be working here, either: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~]$ psql -c contacts \dt xrms.tables psql: FATAL: database \dt does not exist [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~]$ psql -c contacts \dt xrms.tables psql: FATAL: database rshepard does not exist [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~]$ psql -c contacts psql: FATAL: database rshepard does not exist Eric left off the database argument (which defaults to your user name), which was a little misleading, but his syntax does work: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ psql -c '\dt' gateway List of relations Schema | Name | Type | Owner +--+---+-- ... Redirecting to a file is left as an exercise to the reader. Alternatively, you can use psql's \o [FILE] command to redirect query results to a file: contacts=# \o /tmp/xrms.tables contacts=# \dt contacts=# That'll send all output to /tmp/xrms.tables. This creates the file, but it's empty. When I do this, after exiting 'psql' the file is populated. It may be a buffering issue, as another poster has said. What you can also do is close the file by setting output back to the terminal: gateway=# \o /tmp/foo gateway=# \dt gateway=# \!cat /tmp/foo --- empty at this point gateway=# \o --- switch output to the terminal gateway=# \!cat /tmp/foo --- now it's there List of relations Schema | Name | Type | Owner +--+---+-- I'm really surprised that you managed to think 'pg_dump --schema_only' is an SQL command. It's listed nowhere in the SQL syntax reference, and is listed in the manual as one of the utility commands that are run from the shell. Your flailing about, randomly trying different argument combinations, suggests that you aren't understanding what you read, and aren't bothering to try to understand the error messages you get. You could have figured out the first issue, certainly, by reading manpages and error messages. The second one is a bit tricky unless you understand Unix stdio buffering, which I wouldn't necessarily expect. So I'll give you that one. :) -Doug ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faq
Re: [GENERAL] Accessing an old database from a new OS installation.
A. Kretschmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: am 27.01.2006, um 14:21:31 + mailte Matthew Henderson folgendes: Okay, so if I have 7.4 installed and I have the old harddisk mount under /mnt/hda can I do something like pg_dump /mnt/hda/path_to_old_database dump.txt No, this is imposible IMHO. You need a PG-Server with this version (7.4), to read the data. pg_dump is only a client for the DB, it can't read the files. In addition, it's considered best practice to run (in this case) the 7.4 server against the old database, and use the 8.X pg_dump to dump it out for loading into the 8.X server. -Doug ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [GENERAL] Are rules transaction safe?
Oliver Fürst [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi all, I have a question regarding rules on views. Are the commands inside a ON INSERT (or UPDATE) DO INSTEAD (implicit) transactions for postgres? I tried to put BEGIN; and COMMIT; around the commands in a ON ... DO INSTEAD ( ) block, but keep getting a syntax error. Everything that happens in Postgres is inside either an implicit or explicit transaction, so you can't do BEGIN/COMMIT inside rules or functions. You might be able to use savepoints, depending on what you're actually trying to do. -Doug ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [GENERAL] Are rules transaction safe?
Oliver Fürst [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Basically I'm worried that the whole relying on the last value of a sequence isn't such a great idea. 'currval()' is specifically written to Do The Right Thing. See the docs. -Doug ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend
Re: [GENERAL] Are rules transaction safe?
Oliver Fürst [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: But is nowhere stated if (multiple) commands inside a rule are treated as an implicit transaction as a whole. If you don't specifically open a transaction at the top level (i.e. in 'psql' or SQL from your application's code), PG will encapsulate every query you execute within its own transaction. The statements in any rules called will execute in the context of that transaction, along with any other operations such as trigger calls, table updates, whatever. If something in that implicit transaction fails, it will be rolled back; otherwise, it will be committed once the statement is finished. Also, you need to think of rules as 'query rewrites' rather than 'code that executes', because that's what they are. I hope that helps. -Doug ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [GENERAL] Access Problem After Version Upgrade -- Update
Rich Shepard [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: So, now I can see the tables in the various databases, but SQL-Ledger still cannot: Internal Server Error The server encountered an internal error or misconfiguration and was unable to complete your request. How do I get this fixed, please? That's a webserver error usually meaning a CGI script crashed or gave bad output. Look in the webserver error log file to see what happened. -Doug ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [GENERAL] Access Problem After Version Upgrade -- FIXED
Rich Shepard [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Thu, 26 Jan 2006, Joshua D. Drake wrote: Although I am glad you were able to get up and running, typically you don't want to move libs like that. Instead update your /etc/ld.so.conf and run ldconfig. True, Josh. What I'd prefer to do is remove /usr/local/pgsql/ once I know that nothing there is being used any more with the 8.x versions of postgres. I thought of making softlinks, but those would fail as soon as the directory tree was removed. FWIW, my practice when compiling PG from source (which I usually do) is as follows: * Configure each release with '--prefix=/usr/local/pgsql-8.1' (or whatever) * Create (as far as disk space permits) independent data directories for each version--e.g. '/var/lib/pgsql-8.1/data'. * Symlink whatever version I'm running to '/usr/local/pgsql'. Have the standard PATH contain '/usr/local/pgsql/bin'. This way, when I do an upgrade, I can test beforehand by setting PATH and LD_LIBRARY_PATH (if applicable) appropriately, migrating my data, running whatever programs I want to test, then switching the symlink. It's worked fairly well, and it's nice to have the old binaries and data directory sitting there to switch back to of something breaks horribly. The problem I've seen with RPM upgrades is that if something breaks in the data upgrade process, the old binaries are gone and it's a pain to get back to where you were. Putting locally-compiled software in /usr/bin or /usr/lib is a bad idea, generally, as you may confuse your package manager. -Doug ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend
Re: [GENERAL] Trigger question: ROW or STATEMENT?
Patrick Hatcher [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Attempting to do my first trigger and I'm confused about which FOR EACH I should use: ROW or STATEMENT. I import about 80K rows into an existing table each day. If I do a STATEMENT, will the changes only happen on the new 80K rows I inserted or will it be for all rows in the table - currently about 12M. If you told us what you want the trigger to do it would probably be helpful. -Doug ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [GENERAL] Trigger question: ROW or STATEMENT?
Patrick Hatcher [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Here is the trigger the way it is currently written. I add some additional information from another table: If you're modifying each row before it goes in, it should definitely be a FOR EACH ROW trigger. -Doug ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: don't forget to increase your free space map settings
Re: [GENERAL] Postgresql Segfault in 8.1
Benjamin Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: in /var/log/messages, I see Jan 24 17:00:04 kepler kernel: postmaster[26185]: segfault at 2516d728 rip 0043c82c rsp 007fbfffddd0 error 4 The insert statement is long, but doesn't seem to violate anything strange - no weird characters, and all the fields have been properly escaped with pg_escape(). What information do you need to help figure this out? Reproduce it with gdb attached to the backend process and post the backtrace... You may need to recompile PG with debugging symbols to get the most info. -Doug ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: don't forget to increase your free space map settings
Re: [GENERAL] numeric data type?
Zlatko Matić [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: So, it seems that numeric without parameters (precision, scale) behave similar to float, but is much exact. Am I right or I missunderstood? Right. It's also considerably slower, since floating point calculations can use the hardware. Unless you're doing a huge number of computations this may not be an issue. -Doug ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
Re: [GENERAL] sequences not restoring properly
Brian Dimeler [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I'm trying to transition a database from one server to another, the old one running Postgres 7.4.1 and the new, 8.1.1. When I try to restore using a pg_dump plaintext sql file from a nightly backup via the usual psql thedb backup.sql The best way to do this is to run the 8.1.1 pg_dump against the 7.4.1 server. The new pg_dump will know better how to create a backup that 8.1.1 will like. -Doug ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faq
Re: [GENERAL] Page-Level Encryption
David Blewett [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In reading the documentation of Peter Gutmann's Cryptlib, I came across this section: The use of crypto devices can also complicate key management, since keys generated or loaded into the device usually can't be extracted again afterwards. This is a security feature that makes external access to the key impossible, and works in the same way as cryptlib's own storing of keys inside it's security perimeter. This means that if you have a crypto device that supports (say) DES and RSA encryption, then to export an encrypted DES key from a context stored in the device, you need to use an RSA context also stored inside the device, since a context located outside the device won't have access to the DES context's key. I'm not familiar with how his library protects keys, but this suggests that it would be possible to use it as a basis for transparent encryption. He's talking about hardware crypto devices, which most systems don't have (though they're certainly available). If you don't have one of those, then the key has to be stored in system memory. -Doug ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [GENERAL] mount -o async - is it safe?
Martijn van Oosterhout kleptog@svana.org writes: That depends. As long as the data is appropriately sync()ed when PostgreSQL asks, it should be fine. However, from reading the manpage it's not clear if fsync() still works when mounted -o async. If -o async means all I/O is asyncronous except stuff explicitly fsync()ed you're fine. Otherwise... That's the way it works. Async is the default setting for most filesystems, but fsync() is always honored, at last as far as non-lying hardware will allow. :) The usual advice is to stick the WAL on a properly synced partition and stick the rest somewhere else. Note, I have no experience with this, it's just what I've heard. This might not be optimal, as having every write synchronous actually results in more synced writes than are strictly necessary. -Doug ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [GENERAL] Insert a default timestamp when nothing given
Martijn van Oosterhout kleptog@svana.org writes: Not directly. I suppose you could create a view that converted the value to the right date on insert. I think a trigger might make more sense. -Doug ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
Re: [GENERAL] mount -o async - is it safe?
Shane Wright [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Actually I thought that *all* the database had to have fsync() work correctly; not for integrity on failed transactions, but to maintain integrity during checkpointing as well. But I could well be wrong! I think you're write, but what I was thinking of is the scenario where WAL writes are done in small increments, then committed with fsync() once a full page has been written. With a sync mount this would result in the equivalent of fsync() for every small write, which would hurt a lot. I dimly recall this sort of thing being discussed in the past, but I don't know offhand whether PG does its WAL writes in small chunks or page-at-a-time. -Doug ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend
Re: [GENERAL] Upgrade Problem: 7.4.3 - 8.1.2
Rich Shepard [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Thu, 19 Jan 2006, Doug McNaught wrote: Did you tell pg_restore to read from a file? Otherwise it will try to read from your terminal, which probably isn't what you want. Doug, No, I didn't. I've no idea where the file was dumped, so I've no idea of the name or location. Reading in Douglas*2 PostgreSQL book (pages 872-873), they write nothing about giving pg_dumpall a file name/location nor that pg_restore needs that information. They do write that pg_restore wants a dump produced with -format=c or -format=t, without further explanation. pg_dumpall writes to standard output, so you should have seen an enormous spew of data at your terminal. I'm surprised you didn't. The manpages in the official Postgres documentation are quite clear about the behavior of these utilities; your book doesn't seem to be. The recommended way to do an upgrade (if you compile from source) is: 1) Compile the new version of PG and install it to a different place. 2) Use the new pg_dump to connect to the old server and dump all the databases. 3) Make sure your PATH points to the new binaries (or run them by hand), and 4) Run initdb to create a new data directory in a different place fom the old one. 5) Stop the old server and start the new one. 5) If you've used pg_dumpall, your backup will be in SQL test format, so you feed it to 'psql' 6) If you've done pg_dump --format=c for each database, then you need to use pg_restore. pg_restore is only for the binary format dumps. This preserves the old data and binaries so you can back out if you need to. Naturally you need enough disk space for three copies of the data. Now, since you're using a distribution's packages and upgrade procedure, it's not clear what happened to your data. You might want to look at the server logfiles (if any) and ask on the Slackware mailing lists to see if anyone else has had this problem. -Doug ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
Re: [GENERAL] Upgrade Problem: 7.4.3 - 8.1.2
Rich Shepard [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Well, so much for the book. It did seem to be rather sparse on the upgrade. Hmmm-m-m. Wonder what is the most efficient way to get going again. Think I'll try the 'pg_dumpall -format=c' from the old directory and see if there's a new file there. I don't think pg_dumpall supports the 'c' format--it only does SQL (which should work fine for you unless you have large objects, which I doubt SQL-Ledger uses). Furthermore, whenever you use pg_dump or pg_dumpall, you need to redirect it to a file: $ pg_dumpall /var/tmp/backup.sql Otherwise the backup will go to your terminal and nowhere else--not very useful. :) I highly suggest you read: http://www.postgresql.org/docs/8.1/static/backup.html Since it looks like you have both old and new data directories, you might be able to get the old server running again, dump out the data and load it into the new server. Depends on whether your old binaries got blown away by the upgrade. PG is a bit tricky to upgrade and I haven't yet seen a distro upgrade script that works really well. -Doug ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [GENERAL] Upgrade Problem: 7.4.3 - 8.1.2
Rich Shepard [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Using the 8.1.2 pg_dumpall from the 2004 data directory produces a 819K file. But, when I then cd to the new data directory and run: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/var/lib/pgsql/data$ pg_restore /var/tmp/backup.sql pg_restore: [archiver] input file does not appear to be a valid archive However, the file is readable and looks to have all the databases and tables in it. Perhaps I'm closer now? Yes, as I said before, 'pg_dumpall' only produces SQL format dumps, which you restore using 'psql'. 'pg_restore' is only for binary dumps. -Doug ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [GENERAL] bigger blob rows?
Eric Davies [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Back in the days of 7.4.2, we tried storing large blobs (1GB+) in postgres but found them too slow because the blob was being chopped into 2K rows stored in some other table. However, it has occurred to us that if it was possible to configure the server to split blobs into bigger pieces, say 32K, our speed problems might diminish correspondingly. Is there a compile time constant or a run time configuration entry that accomplish this? I *think* the limit would be 8k (the size of a PG page) even if you could change it. Upping that would require recompiling with PAGE_SIZE set larger, which would have a lot of other consequences. -Doug ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend
Re: [GENERAL] Moving PostgreSQL data directory on Windows
Ottó Havasvölgyi [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hello, I would like to move the data directory to another location. I have done this: 1. Stop PostgreSQL 2. Move data directory 3. Create a PGDATA env. variable to the new location 4. Start PostgreSQL And it cannot start, because it cannot find postgresql.conf. (in Event log) What should I do now? Dumb question, but are you sure you exported the PGDATA variable? Is it pointing to the directory that actually contains postgresql.conf? If you still have problems, post the exact error message that appears in the logs. -Doug ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: don't forget to increase your free space map settings
Re: [GENERAL] Moving PostgreSQL data directory on Windows
Doug McNaught [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Dumb question, but are you sure you exported the PGDATA variable? Is it pointing to the directory that actually contains postgresql.conf? If you still have problems, post the exact error message that appears in the logs. Duh, I didn't read the subject line and assumed it was on Unix. :) -Doug ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faq
Re: [GENERAL] Plans for 8.2?
Jeff Trout [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Isn't the [expensive db name here]'s replication/failover just an expensive addon? As in if you don't pay for it you don't get it. So we're basically in the same boat as them.. just an add on. we just offer more variety. Well, [cheap and crappy open-source db name here]'s replication is built in, but we already know we don't want to take them as an example. :) -Doug ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
Re: [GENERAL] (Select *) vs. (Select id) from table.
Scott Ribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The time the DB needs to find the record should be the same since the record has to be found before the resultset is assembled. What if the query can be satisfied from an index? I don't know if PostgreSQL has this kind of optimization or not. Nope. Tuple visibility isn't stored in indexes, so it still has to visit the heap to see if a row is visible to your transaction. -Doug ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: don't forget to increase your free space map settings
Re: [GENERAL] PGError: server closed the connection unexpectedly
Dave Steinberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: My biggest problem is the lack of any real error message on the server. I don't see anything wrong in the system logs, and there's no core file in the /var/postgresql directory. Are you sure core files are enabled; i.e. the server is running with 'ulimit -c unlimited' ? I did a 'vacuumdb -afz' just as a shot in the dark, without affect. Pretty much all I see in the logs is this: USER%DB x.y.z.a(51478) 487LOG: unexpected EOF on client connection This means a client is dying or closing its connection prematurely, and would seem to be a different problem. It shouldn't ever cause the server to crash. Googling turned up a few reports suggesting bad hardware, or corrupted indexes, but I don't think that's the case here. Any starting points or ideas would be greatly appreciated. Make sure the server is able to dump a core file, and perhaps crank up the logging level. -Doug ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [GENERAL] PGError: server closed the connection unexpectedly
Dave Steinberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: My biggest problem is the lack of any real error message on the server. I don't see anything wrong in the system logs, and there's no core file in the /var/postgresql directory. Are you sure core files are enabled; i.e. the server is running with 'ulimit -c unlimited' ? Yes: $ whoami _postgresql $ ulimit -c unlimited But does the startup script for PG set the limits as well? It's quite possible that the PG daemon startup sequence and logging in as the PG user go through different scripts. Also, make sure that you're looking in the right place for core dumps--OpenBSD may put them somewhere weird by default. [...] That looks to me like a clean and normal exit. This is pointing more and more towards the client in the ruby case, isn't it? Yeah, if the server were crashing its exit code would be greater than 127. Also, usually when a backend crashes, the postmaster takes the whole server down on the assumption that shared memory may have been corrupted. It doesn't sound like this is happening to you, which again points to a client problem. You're not using the same PG connection from two different threads, or fork()ing and trying to use the same connection in the parent and the child, or anything like that? -Doug ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: don't forget to increase your free space map settings
Re: [GENERAL] PGError: server closed the connection unexpectedly
Dave Steinberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You're not using the same PG connection from two different threads, or fork()ing and trying to use the same connection in the parent and the child, or anything like that? Aha! In the ruby code, I am forking! I'll make the child reconnect and see if that helps (I am almost sure this will fix it). This one I should have guessed - I dealt with similar stuff in perl somewhat recently. Yay! I thought it might be something like that. The pg_dumpall problem... I'll crank the debug level and see if there's anything interesting there, and if so I'll post about it again. You could also, if you have to, run the BSD equivalent of 'strace' (ktrace?) against the backend that pg_dump is connected to, and see what might be going on. 'strace' is the gun I pull out when logfiles aren't working for me. :) -Doug ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [GENERAL] Moving Tablespaces
Allen Fair [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Our databases can get large and we want to find the best way to plan for when a database outgrows its current server. How about a replication scheme and cutover? If so, is there a preferred replication package to support this? Slony-I was designed for this scenario (among others) and is actively developed. There are also other replication solutions, some of them proprietary. -Doug ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [GENERAL] storing PDFs
Leonel Nunez [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You can use ByteA but the size will be about 4 times bigger Are you sure? The intermediate form for bytea (escaped single-quoted strings) is pretty inefficient, but once in the database the data is stored as binary and can even be compressed. Plus, I'm pretty sure the protocol supports transmitting bytea fields as binary over the wire if your client software can handle it. -Doug ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend
Re: [GENERAL] restarting after power outage
Tom Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Jon Lapham [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Tom Lane wrote: It is. We have been fooling with the postmaster startup logic to try to eliminate this gotcha, but it's only very recently (8.0.2) that I think we got it right. So, then it would be correct to change my init scripts to do the following: (if so, this patch can be applied to the 7.4 branch) I would recommend strongly AGAINST that, because what you just did was remove the defense against starting two postmasters concurrently in the same data directory (which would be a disaster of the first magnitude). This is not a problem for bootup of course, but if you ever use this script to start the postmaster by hand, then you are playing with fire. What I have done is to create a separate init.d script that removes the PID file, and arrange for it to run before the PG startup script. That way you can use the regular script to stop and start without danger, but on a bootup after an unclean shutdown the PID file will get removed before PG gets started. If you're dumb enough to run the removal script by hand while PG is running, you deserve what you get. :) -Doug ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [GENERAL] restarting after power outage
Uwe C. Schroeder [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Is this just me or did anyone actually think about adding a UPS to the machine and monitor it with NUT ? That way the machine would shut down properly, making the whole stale pid-file issue irrelevant. UPSs fail. People kick out power cords. It's good to be able to deal with it. -Doug ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [GENERAL] [HACKERS] plPHP in core?
Robert Treat [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: If by stripped down you mean without postgresql database support then I'll grant you that, but it is no different than other any other pl whose parent language requires postgresql to be installed. If packagers are able to handle those languages than why can't they do the same with PHP ? Other languages don't require PG to be installed in order to compile them. For example, you can build Perl (with no Postgres on the system), build Postgres and then build DBD::Pg as a completely separate step. -Doug ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faq
Re: [GENERAL] libpq usage in Samba
Fernando Schapachnik [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I'm trying to figure out why Samba is failing at high loads if using Postgres as a backend (7.3.9 in my setup). On startup in makes one connection only against the database which is shared among all the Samba processes. In turn, each issue a PQexec() over the same connection (a SELECT, actually). Is that a safe use? I would think it is not, but not really sure. I mean, does libpq multiplex queries and handle concurrency correctly in a such a scenario? No, it doesn't. You need to figure out a way to have each Samba process open its own connection. -Doug ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
Re: [GENERAL] Upgrade data
josue [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I did a pg_dumpall and this sentence to restore it back ./psql template1 -U postgres -p 9981 /home2/tmp/dbtest.tar You need to use 'pg_restore' for tar format dumps. -Doug ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [GENERAL] Problem connecting to postmaster
Glenn Sullivan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi, I have installed native postgresql8.0.1 on a PC running Windows XP professional. I am having trouble connecting to it from my application. The application is a combination of java and C++ which was developed on Sun Solaris (Unix). Thus on the PC, I have installed Microsoft Interix (Service For Unix) on the PC to run the application. I don't know if this is the problem or not, but I am thus trying to connect to the DB running native from an application running from Interix. Does anyone know if this is inherently a problem? Have you tried writing a small standalone Java application to test connecting to the database? That would take Interix out of the equation. My java code connects to the DB using DriverManager.getConnection(jdbc:postgresql://gandalf:5432/mydb, user, passwd); I get a PSQLException with a null message when this is executed. I start up the postmaster with -i to allow TCP/IP connections. I set Windows Firewall to off Does netstat show the Postgres server listening on 5432? Have you tried using localhost instead of gandalf in the JDBC URL? -Doug ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [GENERAL] prelimiary performance comparison pgsql vs mysql
Joshua D. Drake [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Also, a 32-bit machine can only hold so much RAM. If I'm correct, there are ways to address more memory than that on a 32 bit machine, but I wonder at what cost? In other words, is it a good idea to address more than 4GB on a 32 bit machine? If not, is it a reasonable choice to invest in 64 bit if you want 4GB of RAM? Or are you better off just spending the money on RAID and staying at 4GB? It entirely depends on the database but not that the 32bit limit of 4GB is per CPU. So if you have 4 CPUs you can have 16GB of ram. It's actually per-process, not per-CPU. The x86 ISA only has 32-bit address registers, so a process can only see 4GB max. The PAE extensions that came in with the PPro allow for more address bits in the page tables, so each process sees a different subset of a larger pool of physical RAM. The implication of this for PostgreSQL on x86 is that each backend has a maximum of 4GB (actually, usually more like 3 to allow for kernel address space) that must include shared buffers, server code and data, and memory used for sorting etc. On 64-bit platforms, the 4GB address space limitation disappears, and a single backend could use 20GB for a sort, if the memory was available and the administrator allowed it. However, you should be running Opterons anyway. Yup. :) -Doug ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [GENERAL] Referencing created tables fails with message that
Tommy Svensson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I have just installed Postgresql and tried it for the first time. One very serious problem I ran into was when actually trying to use created tables. Creating a simple table without any foreign keys works OK, but after creating the table it is not possible to do a select on it! I tried the following variants: SELECT * FROM table; SELECT * FROM public.table; SELECT * FROM schema.public.table; All result in the message The relation table does not exist! or The relation public.table does not exist!. I bet it's a case problem. Please give the actual table name and the exact SQL you are using to create and access it. -Doug ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [GENERAL] Update command too slow
Venkatesh Babu [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hello, Thanks for providing info... I tried disabling autocommit, as suggested by Mr. Greg Stark, I tried issuing the command set autocommit to off, but got the following error message: ERROR: SET AUTOCOMMIT TO OFF is no longer supported Autocommit is handled by the drivers now. Also, I can't implement the suggestions of Mr. Christopher Browne, because I'm not working with database directly. There is an abstract layer built over the database. This abstract layer provides an interface between application objects and data tables corresponding to those objects. Our application is developed over this abstract layer. Infact, we are using Collection datatype provided by this layer. Collection is similar to java vectors in that it can store any kind of persistable objects, also it implements the save method (which updates the tables corresponding to each object present in the collection), hence one update statement generated per object present in the collection. Sounds like Hibernate--is that what you're using? Make sure you use your mapping library's transaction mechanism to execute the save() inside a transaction and you may get get some speedup. -Doug ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [GENERAL] Introducing the future Debian
Martin, This looks really good. I wish it were going into Sarge, though of course the timing isn't right for that. :) A couple things I noticed about the automated upgrade procedure (pg_version_upgrade): 1) Since it uses pg_dumpall, it doesn't seem to be capable of handling databases with large objects (these have to be dumped individually using one of the non-text dump formats and the -b option). Furthermore, I believe it will fail silently, as pg_dumpall will simply leave out the pg_largeobject table and return success for such databases, which will be left with dangling LO references. 2) It is fairly commonly recommended, when doing a dump/restore upgrade, to use the new version's pg_dump to dump out the old database, as that generally makes it easier to load into the new version without manual surgery on the dump file. The sentence All operations are done with the software version appropriate to the cluster version. in the document seems to preclude this option. Thanks for putting so much thought into this! -Doug ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 8: explain analyze is your friend
Re: [GENERAL] postmaster listening on specified addresses
Administrator [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hello, I was wondering if there's a correct method for running postmaster with the option of listening on a select group of addresses. Does postmaster accept multiple -h hostname options on the command-line, or alternatively a comma-separated list of hostnames or addresses? What if you have a server with multiple network interfaces and addresses assigned to each, and you only want postmaster to listen on a specific subset of those addresses in addition to localhost? Does anyone know if there a supported method for doing this? It would require changes to the existing code (see below). The documentation for the -h option only states: Specifies the TCP/IP host name or address on which the postmaster is to listen for connections from client applications. Defaults to listening on all configured addresses (including localhost). Clearly the server is capable of listening on mutliple addresses since the default is all of them, but the -h option is described only for use with a single address. Actually, in the sockets API to listen on all configured addresses you specify the wildcard address (0.0.0.0). There is no call to listen on this list of addresses. What you are looking for could be done, but it would require multiple listening sockets, one for each address, which (as far as I know) the code doesn't currently do. -Doug ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 7: don't forget to increase your free space map settings
Re: [GENERAL] Adding UNIQUE constraint on NULL column
Dave Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I am trying to add a unique constraint on a column that can be null. The documentation states that null is treated as non equal values but I want them to be equal. Is there another way of doing this other than writing a before insert trigger? UNIQUE constraints on NULLable columns work fine. It's not clear from the above what you're looking for. Are you really saying that you want 'NULL = NULL' to return 't'? -Doug ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [GENERAL] Adding UNIQUE constraint on NULL column
Dave Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Thu, 2005-01-13 at 10:12, Doug McNaught wrote: Are you really saying that you want 'NULL = NULL' to return 't'? Yes Well, that's not how NULL works. -Doug ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [GENERAL] Shared disk
Nageshwar Rao [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi, I would like to use shared disk for two Postgresql database. I mean that two Postgresql Database point to same $PGDATA directory. Is this possible in Postgresql Clarification is appreciated. No, this is not possible. You may want to look at replication solutions such as Slony-I. -Doug ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [GENERAL] Postgres not using shared memory
Karl O. Pinc [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi, I can't seem to get postgresql to use shared memory and performance is terrrible. 1) Linux doesn't track shared pages (which is not the same as shared memory) anymore--the field the in 'free' output is just there to avoid breaking software. Use the 'ipcs' command to list shared memory segments--you'll find Postgres is using what you told it to (otherwise it woudn't start up at all). 2) The -performance list is a good place to find out why queries are running slowly. -Doug ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [GENERAL] Natural ordering in postgresql? Does it exist?
Clark Endrizzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi all, I have a field that I'll be ordering and I noticed that ordering is done logically and would confuse my users here (1,12,16,4,8, etc). Sounds like you're storing a number in a text field. Numeric fields sort in numerical order. -Doug ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faqs/FAQ.html
Re: [GENERAL] Network authentication
Bob Parnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I am having trouble connecting to a database on a debian server from a client system, also debian. Acccording to the documentation, this is possible without a password and offers the following example, hosttemplate1 all 192.168.93.0 255.255.255.0 \ ident sameuser You need to be running an ident daemon on the client machine, and also to be aware of the security issues involved with ident. In addition I noticed that if I have a second line in the pg_hba.conf file, hostall all 192.168.1.0 255.255.255.0 md5 coming before the other line, I can connect to the server database using a password. However, if it follows the line, I cannot. Am I doing something wrong here also? Only the first matching line in pg_hba.conf is used. -Doug ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 7: don't forget to increase your free space map settings
Re: [GENERAL] SSL confirmation
Michael Fuhr [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Sun, Dec 05, 2004 at 09:10:42PM +, Andrew M wrote: The map i make reference to is a Jboss map used to make a jndi connection to postgreSQL. What document do I need to access to get hold of the envireonment variables, namely PGSSLMODE? I don't know if the J-stuff wraps libpq or if it implements the communications protocol on its own. The latter. AFAIK it doesn't use environment variables. See the JDBC driver docs for how to set options when connecting. -Doug ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [GENERAL] general questions on Postgresql and deployment on
Calvin Wood [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: symbolic link. But on win32, there is no equivalent. However, even under *nix system, I believe symbolic link can only be created for directories on the same hard drive. This seems less than optimal. Typically, one would place database files on RAID 5 drives (to maximize random access speed) and log files on mirrored drives (to maximize sequential access speed). On Unix, a symbolic link can point anywhere. It's hard links that are limited to the same filesystem (not necessarily a disk drive in the hardware sense). -Doug ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [GENERAL] Dont let those int8's drive you mad!!
Jeff Amiel [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: If postgres knows the field is an int8, why do I have to cast it in my query? This is fixed in 8.0. -Doug ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [GENERAL] relation does not exist error
Simon Wittber [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: WMSDV=# \dt List of relations Schema | Name| Type | Owner +---+---+--- public | Customers | table | simon public | Persons | table | simon (2 rows) WMSDV=# select * from Customers; ERROR: relation customers does not exist Identifiers get mashed to lower case unless you quote them: SELECT * FROM Customers; -Doug ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 7: don't forget to increase your free space map settings
Re: [GENERAL] [HACKERS] Adding Reply-To: listname to Lists
Marc G. Fournier [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: No, the poster will still be included as part of the headers ... what happens, at least under Pine, is that I am prompted whther I want to honor the reply-to, if I hit 'y', then the other headers *are* strip'd and the mail is set right back to the list ... I'm in the Reply-To considered harmful camp. I also don't see any real evidence that the current setup is causing problems. -Doug ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [GENERAL] Moving/Using Postgres Binaries on multiple machines
Francis Reed [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: If I want to create a postgres database on multiple machines, is the practice of tarring or zipping up binaries compiled on one machine and untarring them on another, and using the binaries (initdb etc) acceptable?. This removes the need for having a compiler and environment on the target machine, or is it necessary always to have such an environment on any machine you intend to use postgres on? Postgres seems to have enough environment options to allow this to work, overriding the original library locations and paths etc from the original machine on which postgres was compiled. Does anyone see a problem with this approach? I've had no problems doing this, though I generally standardize the install location across multiple machines. -Doug ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [GENERAL] Any equivalent of MSSQL Detach?
Kenneth Downs [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I am wondering if it is possible to pick up a database from one computer and move it over to another and then just plug it back in. No, unless you do the whole database cluster, and the two machines are the same architecture and have the same version of PG, compiled the same way. Basically there are a lot of interdependencies between different parts of the database cluster, so you can't just grab a single database and copy it over. pg_dump is the way to go... P.S. I'm replying to the list only because I can't be bothered to demangle your address. If you don't get the reply, tough toenails. -Doug ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [GENERAL] How to clear linux file cache?
Janning Vygen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: So how do i easily empty all page/file caches on linux (2.4.24)? Probably the closest you can easily get is to put the Postgres data files on their own partition, and unmount/remount that partition before running yuour tests. Unmounting will sync and throw away all cached file data for that partition. -Doug ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [GENERAL] DROP DATABASE, but still there
Robert Fitzpatrick [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What does it mean when you drop a database and then recreate with the same name and all the objects are still there. I want to wipe out the db and put back from pg_restore. After I re-create the db, all the old tables are back before I run pg_restore. Check the 'template1' database to see if the tables got put in there by mistake at some point. -Doug ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [GENERAL] Transaction rollback - newbie
A. Mous [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi, I've got clients connected to pgsql via ODBC. If they lose their connection abruptly, all un-committed transactions are automatically rolled-back (I'm assuming) but is there anything left behind that needs to be cleaned up on the server side with regards to the uncommitted transaction(s)? No. When the connection goes away, the backend will log an error, roll back the transaction and exit cleanly. -Doug ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [GENERAL] Reasoning behind process instead of thread based
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The developers agree that multiple processes provide more benefits (mostly in stability and robustness) than costs (more connection startup costs). The startup costs are easily overcome by using connection pooling. Please explain why it is more stable and robust? Because threads share the same memory space, a runaway thread can corrupt the entire system by writing to the wrong part of memory. With separate processes, the only data that is shared is that which is meant to be shared, which reduces the potential for such damage. Also, each query can only use one processor; a single query can't be executed in parallel across many CPUs. However, several queries running concurrently will be spread across the available CPUs. And it is because of the PostgreSQL process architecture that a query can't be executed by many CPU:s right? There's no theoretical reason that a query couldn't be split across multiple helper processes, but no one's implemented that feature--it would be a pretty major job. Also, MySQL has a library for embedded aplications, the say: We also provide MySQL Server as an embedded multi-threaded library that you can link into your application to get a smaller, faster, easier-to-manage product. Do PostgreSQL offer anything similar? No. See the archives for extensive discussion of why PG doesn't do this. -Doug ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [GENERAL] Importing a tab delimited text file - How?
Ken Tozier [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I've been looking though the PostgreSQL documentation but can't seem to find a command for importing files. I read the documentation related to large objects but this isn't what I'm looking for as I don't want to import the entire file into a single field, I want to import it as a table. I'm sure there's a way to do it but I can't seem to find the magic command. Could someone point me to (or provide) an example? You want the SQL COPY statement, or the \copy command in 'psql'. -Doug ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
Re: [GENERAL] OID's
Eddy Macnaghten [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The other thing to be aware of is if a large number of people are writing to the database concurrently it can go wrong (any method). That is if you insert a record (using nextval for the sequence), then someone else quickly inserts a row too before you have a chance to get the sequence number at the next statement then the sequence number you get will be wrong (it would be of the new one, not yours). This would be the case regardless of how the records are committed. Not the case. If you use currval(), it will always be the last value the sequence took *in your session*, so it's immune to other sessions inserting at the same time. See the docs. -Doug ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [GENERAL] '1 year' = '360 days' ????
Tom Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Ricardo Perez Lopez [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I have observed that, for PostgreSQL, one year is actually 360 days: SELECT '1 year'::timestamp = '360 days'::timestamp; ?column? - t Nonsense. regression=# SELECT '1 year'::timestamp = '360 days'::timestamp; ERROR: invalid input syntax for type timestamp: 1 year How about telling us what you *really* did, instead of posting faked examples? FWIW: template1=# select '1 year'::interval = '360 days'::interval; ?column? -- t (1 row) template1=# select '1 year'::interval = '365 days'::interval; ?column? -- f (1 row) template1=# select version(); version - PostgreSQL 7.4.5 on i686-pc-linux-gnu, compiled by GCC egcs-2.91.66 (1 row) -Doug ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [GENERAL] How to increase number of connections to 7.2.1
Edwin New [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I need to increase the number of connections to PostgreSQL 7.2.1. I have tried changing the value of max_connections in Postgresql.conf. It was commented out (as are all other entries except tcpip_socket = true). Setting it to any other value that the default 32 resulted in the server failing to restart. 1) Make sure your shared_buffers setting is big enough to handle your desired connection limit. 2) Make sure your kernel's shared memory limits allow for your shared_buffers setting. If you can't get it to start, please post the server log entries from the failed attempt--otherwise we have nothing to go on. -Doug -- Let us cross over the river, and rest under the shade of the trees. --T. J. Jackson, 1863 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [GENERAL] dealing with invalid date
Mage [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi, can pgsql acceppt invalid date values? Sometimes it would be nice to convert 2003-02-29 to 2003-03-01 or to 2003-02-28 automatically instead of throwing back an error message. If you want MySQL, you know where to find it. -Doug -- Let us cross over the river, and rest under the shade of the trees. --T. J. Jackson, 1863 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [GENERAL] Message-ID as unique key?
Jerry LeVan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi, I am futzing around with Andrew Stuarts Catchmail program that stores emails into a postgresql database. I want to avoid inserting the same email more than once... (pieces of the email actually get emplaced into several tables). Is the Message-ID header field a globally unique identifer? It is intended to be, but since it is generated by either the MUA or the first MTA that sees the message, there is a lot of scope for broken software to screw things up. -Doug -- Let us cross over the river, and rest under the shade of the trees. --T. J. Jackson, 1863 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [GENERAL] Help on copy function
Tom Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: And an error occurs : psql:lineitem.loader.psql:1: ERROR: could not extend relation 24342131/24342133 /24342324: There is not enough space in the file system. HINT: Check free disk space. but my fileSystem has something like 2Go free when copy fails! Maybe you are running the postmaster under a disk-space-usage limit? I'm not sure that there's a separate errno for you can't have any more space as opposed to there isn't any more space. It's also possible that PG is trying to create a new table file and he's out of inodes... -Doug -- Let us cross over the river, and rest under the shade of the trees. --T. J. Jackson, 1863 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [GENERAL] Help on copy function
Tom Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Doug McNaught [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: It's also possible that PG is trying to create a new table file and he's out of inodes... Good thought, although I think that this particular error message would only come out from a seek/write failure and not from an open failure. In any case it's some sort of externally imposed resource limit ... Yeah. My first reaction to inexplicable ENOSPC is always are you out of inodes? just because I've been bitten by it several times and felt like an idiot afterwards. ;) -Doug -- Let us cross over the river, and rest under the shade of the trees. --T. J. Jackson, 1863 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faqs/FAQ.html
Re: [GENERAL] default select ordering
Matt Roberts [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Please accept my apologies if this is answered elsewhere in the archives or docs but I have searched without luck. I've always assumed that default ordering of selects are based on a first in first out principle and that this remains true at the row level despite edits to columns. There is no guaranteed ordering of rows without an ORDER BY clause. VACUUM will change the row ordering as it moves tuples around to free up space. If you want a guaranteed order, use a key field and ORDER BY. -Doug -- Let us cross over the river, and rest under the shade of the trees. --T. J. Jackson, 1863 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [GENERAL] newby question
Scott Frankel [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Additional note: configure warned of an old version of bison when I attempted an install of postgresql7.4.5 the other day. Seems the version that comes with OSX 10.3.x is too old for postgres. You only actually need Bison if you are building from CVS--the release tarballs are pre-Bisonated, so you can ignore that warning. :) -Doug -- Let us cross over the river, and rest under the shade of the trees. --T. J. Jackson, 1863 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faqs/FAQ.html
Re: [GENERAL] To OID or not to OID
David Parker [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Is there any concrete reason NOT to create tables WITHOUT OIDS? We are going to have some very large tables in our app, so saving the space and not worrying about int-wrap seems like a good idea, but I'm worried that I'm missing something. Nothing in PG depends on user tables having an OID column. They used to be a way to get a primary key before SERIAL came along, but they are now deprecated for user tables. WITHOUT OIDS will be the default in a future release. -Doug -- Let us cross over the river, and rest under the shade of the trees. --T. J. Jackson, 1863 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 7: don't forget to increase your free space map settings
Re: [GENERAL] Custom Functions
Matthew Metnetsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Tue, 2004-09-28 at 10:55, Katsaros Kwn/nos wrote: So, does anyone know of (or have) good examples of queries within functions (and returning sets of data)? I'm not very experienced in PostgreSQL but maybe SPI functions is what you need. Yeah I took a look at them, but I'm not sold because when I look at Postgres' build in functions I never see it. Its as if SPI_* is slower or something. SPI is an internal API for server-side functions to use. Client apps will never use it. I think Katsaros might have meant set-returning functions (SRF) which are documented in the manual and available to client apps. -Doug -- Let us cross over the river, and rest under the shade of the trees. --T. J. Jackson, 1863 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [GENERAL] serial data type
Tom Allison [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Can I use the serial data type in lieu of an 'auto_number' field? What are the exact semantics of an auto_number field? I asked something like this some months ago and it seems that auto_number fields were addressed through a combination of triggers and procedures to ensure that there were do duplicate KEYS generated. Is it realistic to use the serial data type as a KEY? Lots and lots of people do. If you're just looking for a unique key column for a single table, it works fine. -Doug -- Let us cross over the river, and rest under the shade of the trees. --T. J. Jackson, 1863 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [GENERAL] serial data type
Joseph Healy [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Sat, Sep 25, 2004 at 07:20:23PM -0400, Tom Allison wrote: Any idea how to set up a timestamp=now on every insert/update ? when you create your table, use: create table mytable ( id serial primary key, updated timestamp default(now()), mydata int4 ); That won't change the timestamp on UPDATE queries; you need a trigger for that. -Doug -- Let us cross over the river, and rest under the shade of the trees. --T. J. Jackson, 1863 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [GENERAL] abnormal data grow
Reynard Hilman [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi, I have been having this problem where the database size suddenly grows from the normal size of about 300Mb to 12Gb in one night. When I look up the table size, the biggest one is only 41Mb and the total of all table size is only 223Mb. But in the filesystem data directory the total size is 12Gb. I noticed there are 10 files with 1Gb size each: 1.1G25677563 1.1G25677563.1 1.1G25677563.2 1.1G25677563.3 1.1G25677563.4 1.1G25677563.5 1.1G25677563.6 1.1G25677563.7 1.1G25677563.8 1.1G25677563.9 25677563 is the OID of this object. The different files are segments of the relation, not duplicates (PG restricts individual data file size to 1GB). So look for which relation has that OID--it's quite possibly an index that is bloating up. -Doug -- Let us cross over the river, and rest under the shade of the trees. --T. J. Jackson, 1863 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 8: explain analyze is your friend
Re: [GENERAL] Oracle / Postgres Interface
Shah, Sameer [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 1. I have DataBase-A which is Oracle on Server A with FunctionA (PLSQL) 2. I have DataBase-B which is Postgress on Server B with FunctionB (PgSQL) 3. I need to call FunctionA from FunctionB As far as I know, the on'y way to do this is to write a Postgres function (function B) in C that links with the Oracle client libraries, connects to Oracle, and calls your function A. -Doug -- Let us cross over the river, and rest under the shade of the trees. --T. J. Jackson, 1863 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [GENERAL] Can't connect to Windows port + other
Anony Mous [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: A few days ago there was a fellow that had trouble connecting remotely to the 8.0 beta win port. I had the same problem, but have since found the solution. In postgresql.conf file, ensure the line listen_addresses is set to '*', ie, listen_addresses = '*' This should do it. Can someone explain to my why this line is here? TCP/IP has always been disabled by default, leaving just Unix sockets for connections. This is probably not a very useful default configuration on Windows. :) -Doug -- Let us cross over the river, and rest under the shade of the trees. --T. J. Jackson, 1863 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [GENERAL] Change config of running PGSQL
McDougall, Marshall (FSH) [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I have an existing installation of 7.3.4 that appears to have been made with --without-readline and --without-zlib parameters used at build time. How do I change those parms without reinstalling the whole thing. I would normally go through the archives, but they appear to be unavailable. All replies appreciated. The minumum you can do is recompile with the configure options you want, move the affected new binaries into place, and restart. There's really no reason not to do a full make install though--you won't have to dump and reload your data, and it's easier than figuring out by hand what you need to upgrade... -Doug -- Let us cross over the river, and rest under the shade of the trees. --T. J. Jackson, 1863 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [GENERAL] Change config of running PGSQL
McDougall, Marshall (FSH) [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I made sure that readline was indeed installed to no avail. The configure still does not see the libs. Any ideas? You don't say what system you're on, but most Linux distributions split library packages like readline into 'runtime' and 'devel' packages. You need the latter in order to compile software that ses the library. On HedHat/Fedora, it would be called 'readline-devel' or some such. -Doug -- Let us cross over the river, and rest under the shade of the trees. --T. J. Jackson, 1863 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 7: don't forget to increase your free space map settings
Re: [GENERAL] upgrading minor versions
Jeff Amiel [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: So I downloaded postgresql-7.4.5.tar.gz ftp://ftp21.us.postgresql.org/pub/postgresql/v7.4.5/postgresql-7.4.5.tar.gz uncompressed... configure... make make install I run psql and it gives me the Welcome to psql 7.4.5, the PostgreSQL interactive terminal. So far so good...it says 7.4.5. but when I select version() from the database that I connected to with psql, I still receive: PostgreSQL 7.4.2 on i386-portbld-freebsd5.2.1, compiled by GCC cc (GCC) 3.3.3 [FreeBSD] 20031106 Did you shut down and restart the server after the upgrade? Are you sure the new binaries went where you think they did? -Doug -- Let us cross over the river, and rest under the shade of the trees. --T. J. Jackson, 1863 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [GENERAL] Problem to connect to the Windows Port
Tom Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Cornelia Boenigk [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: C:\psql -h 192.168.1.8 -U postgres -d minitest psql: could not connect to server: Connection refused Is the server running on host 192.168.1.8 and accepting TCP/IP connections on port 5432? Connection refused suggests that you've got a firewall-type problem, ie the operating system is rejecting the connection rather than letting the postmaster receive it. Check packet filtering rules... It's also possible that the postmaster is listening on a port other than 5342... -Doug -- Let us cross over the river, and rest under the shade of the trees. --T. J. Jackson, 1863 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [GENERAL] COPY not handling BLOBs
Jan Wieck [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On 8/4/2004 1:58 PM, David Rysdam wrote: bytea will only go up to several thousand bytes according to the docs. I assume it's not very precise because the maximum is 8196 - $other_fields_in_row. My binary data could be a couple times that or even much bigger for other apps. I suggest upgrading to PostgreSQL 7.1 or newer. Or reading the right set of docs. :) -Doug -- Let us cross over the river, and rest under the shade of the trees. --T. J. Jackson, 1863 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
Re: [GENERAL] Question about linux filesystem and psql
Marcus Wegner [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Is it possible to keep data safe with linux and psql after crash? The short description of the scenario is: - writing data with psql (using transactions), store process completed - user hits the reset button or kernel crashes (whatever left the filesystem unsynced) - filesystem is xfs or reiserfs - reboot causes some blocks filled with zero (journalling feature discussed on lkml) of last accessed files from some applications The quesiton here is: do these filesystems lie about fsync()? Or do they just corrupt files that were written but not synced before the crash? I think it's the latter--lying about fsync() is a pretty major bug, and I don't recall that being claimed on LKML. Given this, PG should be in good shape--it fsyncs() the WAL file before reporting transaction success, so it should be able to recover committed transactions. My questions are: Is there any solution that psql keeps the database intact (already written data)? Is there an option for psql or filesystem (like reiserfs data=ordered) which should be used (maybe backup database) You should always back up your data. :) You might also consider ext3 with data=writeback. As long as the WAL files are in sync and the filesystem metadata is journaled, PG can recover from crashes just fine (barring actual hardware failure). -Doug -- Let us cross over the river, and rest under the shade of the trees. --T. J. Jackson, 1863 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [GENERAL] altering a table to set serial function
Prabu Subroto [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
If I read your suggestion, that means...I have drop
the column salesid and re-create the column
salesid. and it means, I will the data in the
current salesid column.
Do you have further suggestion?
You can do it by hand without dropping the column:
CREATE SEQUENCE salesid_seq;
SELECT setval('salesid_seq', (SELECT max(salesid) FROM sales) + 1);
ALTER TABLE sales ALTER COLUMN salesid DEFAULT nextval('salesid_seq');
This is the same thing that the SERIAL datatype does behind the
scenes.
I can't vouch for the exact syntax of the above but that should get
you started.
-Doug
--
Let us cross over the river, and rest under the shade of the trees.
--T. J. Jackson, 1863
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives?
http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [GENERAL] Do we need more emphasis on backup?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jim Seymour) writes: Oh, if you're accepting punctuation nits ;), in most cases, the comma should come after but, not before it. So your sentence should read PostgreSQL will run on almost any hardware but, if you are... Wrong. :) You are sentenced to go read Strunk and White again. -Doug ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 8: explain analyze is your friend
Re: [GENERAL] Row-level security--is it possible?
Michal Taborsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Doug McNaught wrote: But why not create a products_restricted view that uses the CURRENT_USER function to see who's running it? CREATE VIEW products_restricted AS SELECT * FROM products WHERE Producer_ID = get_producer_id(CURRENT_USER); [CURRENT_USER returns a string, so you would need to map it to your producer_id somehow.] This would work only for this case (limiting single producer to one user). But we want to have a bit more flexible system, so we'd be able define the restrictions freely (like only producers 1 and 5 and price less than 100). I'm sorry I did not mention this. Have you looked into set-returning functions for this? That would let you basically put whever logic you need into the function. -Doug ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faqs/FAQ.html
Re: [GENERAL] Error loading trigger in C
Juan Jose Costello Levien [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hello, I am trying to use a trigger function I wrote in C. Basically what I want to do is to audit a table when a row is inserted into another table by copying the row to the new table. It compiles Ok and I created a shared library trigger.so. But when I load it into pgAdmin it tells me 'An error had occured'. Does it work if you take pgAdmin out of the loop? E.g. in psql: CREATE FUNCTION trigf ... CREATE TRIGGER ... -Doug ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
Re: [GENERAL] coalesce and nvl question
Simon Windsor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi I understand that null and '' are different, and MySQL and Oracle functions are confusing, but my question was not about replacing NULL but replacing Empty strings. These are handled in MySQL/Oracle by the same functions that do NULL checks. Is there a standard function in Postgres that replaces Empty strings, as against a NULL value. I don't think so, but you could use a CASE clause for this. -Doug ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
