Re: [HACKERS] collations in shared catalogs?

2015-03-04 Thread Robert Haas
On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 7:54 PM, David Steele da...@pgmasters.net wrote: +1 on 128/256 character names. /me runs and hides. /stands brazenly in the open and volunteers to try it if I don't get clobbered within seconds. I think the question is whether making lots of rows in system catalogs

Re: [HACKERS] Bootstrap DATA is a pita

2015-03-04 Thread Tom Lane
Robert Haas robertmh...@gmail.com writes: Another advantage of this is that it would probably make git less likely to fumble a rebase. If there are lots of places in the file where we have the same 10 lines in a row with occasional variations, rebasing a patch could easily pick the the wrong

Re: [HACKERS] collations in shared catalogs?

2015-03-04 Thread David Steele
Hi Robert, On 3/4/15 10:14 AM, Robert Haas wrote: On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 7:54 PM, David Steele da...@pgmasters.net wrote: +1 on 128/256 character names. /me runs and hides. /stands brazenly in the open and volunteers to try it if I don't get clobbered within seconds. I think the

Re: [HACKERS] Weirdly pesimistic estimates in optimizer

2015-03-04 Thread Robert Haas
On Mon, Mar 2, 2015 at 2:19 PM, David Kubečka kubecka@gmail.com wrote: The question is why optimizer, or rather the cost estimator, produced so much different estimates upon very small change in input. Moreover it seems that the main culprit of bad estimates isn't actually directly related

Re: [HACKERS] MD5 authentication needs help

2015-03-04 Thread Andres Freund
Hi, On 2015-03-04 10:52:30 -0500, Stephen Frost wrote: I've been discussing this with a few folks outside of the PG community (Debian and Openwall people specifically) and a few interesting ideas have come out of that which might be useful to discuss. The first is a don't break anything

Re: [HACKERS] MD5 authentication needs help

2015-03-04 Thread Magnus Hagander
On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 5:03 PM, Stephen Frost sfr...@snowman.net wrote: Magnus, * Magnus Hagander (mag...@hagander.net) wrote: On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 4:52 PM, Stephen Frost sfr...@snowman.net wrote: A lot of discussion has been going on with SCRAM and SASL, which is all great, but

Re: [HACKERS] xpath changes in the recent back branches

2015-03-04 Thread Robert Haas
On Thu, Feb 19, 2015 at 5:53 AM, Marko Tiikkaja ma...@joh.to wrote: Commit 79af9a1d2668c9edc8171f03c39e7fed571eeb98 changed xpath handling with regard to namespaces, and it seems to be fixing an actual issue. However, it was also backpatched to all branches despite it breaking for example code

Re: [HACKERS] Combining Aggregates

2015-03-04 Thread Robert Haas
On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 4:41 AM, David Rowley dgrowle...@gmail.com wrote: This thread mentions parallel queries as a use case, but that means passing data between processes, and that requires being able to serialize and deserialize the aggregate state somehow. For actual data types that's not

Re: [HACKERS] MD5 authentication needs help

2015-03-04 Thread Andres Freund
On 2015-03-04 11:06:33 -0500, Stephen Frost wrote: * Andres Freund (and...@2ndquadrant.com) wrote: On 2015-03-04 10:52:30 -0500, Stephen Frost wrote: The first is a don't break anything approach which would move the needle between network data sensitivity and on-disk data sensitivity a

Re: [HACKERS] xpath changes in the recent back branches

2015-03-04 Thread Tom Lane
Robert Haas robertmh...@gmail.com writes: On Thu, Feb 19, 2015 at 5:53 AM, Marko Tiikkaja ma...@joh.to wrote: I'm not sure how changing behavior like this in a minor release was considered acceptable. I'm guessing that the fact that it changes behavior in cases like this wasn't recognized,

Re: [HACKERS] Comparing primary/HS standby in tests

2015-03-04 Thread Jeff Janes
On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 7:49 AM, Andres Freund and...@2ndquadrant.com wrote: Hi, I've regularly wished we had automated tests that setup HS and then compare primary/standby at the end to verify replay worked correctly. Heikki's page comparison tools deals with some of that verification, but

Re: [HACKERS] MD5 authentication needs help

2015-03-04 Thread Magnus Hagander
On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 4:52 PM, Stephen Frost sfr...@snowman.net wrote: A lot of discussion has been going on with SCRAM and SASL, which is all great, but that means we end up with a dependency on SASL or we have to reimplement SCRAM (which I've been thinking might not be a bad idea- it's

Re: [HACKERS] MD5 authentication needs help

2015-03-04 Thread Stephen Frost
Bruce, all, I've been discussing this with a few folks outside of the PG community (Debian and Openwall people specifically) and a few interesting ideas have come out of that which might be useful to discuss. The first is a don't break anything approach which would move the needle between

Re: [HACKERS] Abbreviated keys for Numeric

2015-03-04 Thread Robert Haas
On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 5:59 AM, Andrew Gierth and...@tao11.riddles.org.uk wrote: Tomas == Tomas Vondra tomas.von...@2ndquadrant.com writes: Tomas Interesting, but I think Gavin was asking about how much Tomas variation was there for each tested case (e.g. query executed on Tomas the same

Re: [HACKERS] MD5 authentication needs help

2015-03-04 Thread Stephen Frost
* Andres Freund (and...@2ndquadrant.com) wrote: On 2015-03-04 11:06:33 -0500, Stephen Frost wrote: * Andres Freund (and...@2ndquadrant.com) wrote: On 2015-03-04 10:52:30 -0500, Stephen Frost wrote: The first is a don't break anything approach which would move the needle between

Re: [HACKERS] improve pgbench syntax error messages

2015-03-04 Thread Fabien COELHO
As I mentioned on the other thread, I'd really like to get this into a better format, where each error message is on one line. Looking at that, you can't tell whether you've got one mistake, two mistakes, or three mistakes. Indeed. Here is a v2. sh ./pgbench -f bad.sql bad.sql:3: syntax

Re: [HACKERS] Bootstrap DATA is a pita

2015-03-04 Thread Andres Freund
On 2015-03-04 09:55:01 -0500, Robert Haas wrote: On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 9:42 AM, Tom Lane t...@sss.pgh.pa.us wrote: I wonder if we should have a tool in our repository to help people edit the file. So instead of going in there yourself and changing things by hand, or writing your own script,

Re: [HACKERS] Strange assertion using VACOPT_FREEZE in vacuum.c

2015-03-04 Thread Stephen Frost
* Robert Haas (robertmh...@gmail.com) wrote: On Sun, Mar 1, 2015 at 6:58 AM, Michael Paquier michael.paqu...@gmail.com wrote: Hm, why not. That would remove all inconsistencies between the parser and the autovacuum code path. Perhaps something like the attached makes sense then? I

Re: [HACKERS] MD5 authentication needs help

2015-03-04 Thread Stephen Frost
* Andres Freund (and...@2ndquadrant.com) wrote: Hi, On 2015-03-04 10:52:30 -0500, Stephen Frost wrote: I've been discussing this with a few folks outside of the PG community (Debian and Openwall people specifically) and a few interesting ideas have come out of that which might be useful

Re: [HACKERS] xpath changes in the recent back branches

2015-03-04 Thread Marko Tiikkaja
On 3/4/15 6:19 PM, I wrote: On 3/4/15 5:26 PM, Tom Lane wrote: It was considered to be a bug fix; more, given the few complaints about the clearly-broken old behavior, we thought it was a fix that would affect few people, and them positively. Yeah, but these things usually go the other way.

Re: [HACKERS] xpath changes in the recent back branches

2015-03-04 Thread Mike Rylander
On Thu, Feb 19, 2015 at 5:53 AM, Marko Tiikkaja ma...@joh.to wrote: Hi, Commit 79af9a1d2668c9edc8171f03c39e7fed571eeb98 changed xpath handling with regard to namespaces, and it seems to be fixing an actual issue. However, it was also backpatched to all branches despite it breaking for

Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade and rsync

2015-03-04 Thread Bruce Momjian
On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 01:53:47PM +0300, Vladimir Borodin wrote: After running initdb to create the new master, but before running pg_upgrade, modify the new master's postgresql.conf and change wal_level = hot_standby. (Don't modify pg_hba.conf at this stage.) That does not

Re: [HACKERS] xpath changes in the recent back branches

2015-03-04 Thread Marko Tiikkaja
On 3/4/15 5:26 PM, Tom Lane wrote: Robert Haas robertmh...@gmail.com writes: On Thu, Feb 19, 2015 at 5:53 AM, Marko Tiikkaja ma...@joh.to wrote: I'm not sure how changing behavior like this in a minor release was considered acceptable. I'm guessing that the fact that it changes behavior in

Re: [HACKERS] MD5 authentication needs help

2015-03-04 Thread Bruce Momjian
On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 10:52:30AM -0500, Stephen Frost wrote: The first is a don't break anything approach which would move the needle between network data sensitivity and on-disk data sensitivity a bit back in the direction of making the network data more sensitive. this approach looks

Re: [HACKERS] Comparing primary/HS standby in tests

2015-03-04 Thread Andres Freund
On 2015-03-04 08:41:23 -0800, Jeff Janes wrote: Couldn't we just arbitrarily exclude sequence internal states from the comparison? Not sure what you mean? You mean just not dump them? I guess we could by editing the contents of a custom format dump? A bit annoying to have a script doing that...

Re: [HACKERS] MD5 authentication needs help

2015-03-04 Thread Bruce Momjian
On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 11:36:23AM -0500, Stephen Frost wrote: * Andres Freund (and...@2ndquadrant.com) wrote: On 2015-03-04 11:06:33 -0500, Stephen Frost wrote: * Andres Freund (and...@2ndquadrant.com) wrote: On 2015-03-04 10:52:30 -0500, Stephen Frost wrote: The first is a don't

Re: [HACKERS] compress method for spgist - 2

2015-03-04 Thread Paul Ramsey
On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 6:13 AM, Heikki Linnakangas hlinnakan...@vmware.com wrote: In the original post on this, you mentioned that the PostGIS guys planned to use this to store polygons, as bounding boxes (http://www.postgresql.org/message-id/5447b3ff.2080...@sigaev.ru). Any idea how would

Re: [HACKERS] MD5 authentication needs help

2015-03-04 Thread Stephen Frost
* Bruce Momjian (br...@momjian.us) wrote: On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 10:52:30AM -0500, Stephen Frost wrote: The first is a don't break anything approach which would move the needle between network data sensitivity and on-disk data sensitivity a bit back in the direction of making the network

Re: [HACKERS] Patch: raise default for max_wal_segments to 1GB

2015-03-04 Thread Greg Stark
On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 7:57 PM, Tom Lane t...@sss.pgh.pa.us wrote: Now, if we were to change the server so that it *refused* settings that didn't have a unit, that argument would become moot. But I'm not going to defend the castle against the villagers who will show up if you do that. That

Re: [HACKERS] MD5 authentication needs help

2015-03-04 Thread Stephen Frost
* Bruce Momjian (br...@momjian.us) wrote: On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 11:36:23AM -0500, Stephen Frost wrote: * Andres Freund (and...@2ndquadrant.com) wrote: On 2015-03-04 11:06:33 -0500, Stephen Frost wrote: * Andres Freund (and...@2ndquadrant.com) wrote: On 2015-03-04 10:52:30 -0500,

Re: [HACKERS] File based Incremental backup v8

2015-03-04 Thread Marco Nenciarini
Hi Fujii, Il 03/03/15 11:48, Fujii Masao ha scritto: On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 12:36 AM, Marco Nenciarini marco.nenciar...@2ndquadrant.it wrote: Il 02/03/15 14:21, Fujii Masao ha scritto: On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 10:50 PM, Marco Nenciarini marco.nenciar...@2ndquadrant.it wrote: Hi, I've

Re: [HACKERS] MD5 authentication needs help

2015-03-04 Thread Stephen Frost
* Stephen Frost (sfr...@snowman.net) wrote: * Bruce Momjian (br...@momjian.us) wrote: On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 11:36:23AM -0500, Stephen Frost wrote: * Andres Freund (and...@2ndquadrant.com) wrote: On 2015-03-04 11:06:33 -0500, Stephen Frost wrote: * Andres Freund

Re: [HACKERS] MD5 authentication needs help

2015-03-04 Thread Bruce Momjian
On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 12:43:54PM -0500, Stephen Frost wrote: What does storing multiple hash(password || stoarage_salt) values do for us that session_salt doesn't already do? By storing a hash of the result of the challenge/response, we wouldn't be susceptible to attacks where the user

Re: [HACKERS] Normalizing units for postgresql.conf WAS: Patch: raise default for max_wal_segments to 1GB

2015-03-04 Thread Robert Haas
On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 1:42 PM, Josh Berkus j...@agliodbs.com wrote: Sure. Although, do we take (s) for tcp_keepalives_idle? Or only an INT? It's a time unit, so you can say 10s or 1ms. If you don't specify a unit, it implies seconds. So if we're going to make this consistent, let's

Re: [HACKERS] MD5 authentication needs help

2015-03-04 Thread Stephen Frost
* Heikki Linnakangas (hlinn...@iki.fi) wrote: I'm not sure how expensive a brute force attack on SRP would be, using a stolen backup tape. There doesn't seem to be an iterations count similar to SCRAM. But note that SRP's resistance to brute-forcing the authentication handshake is of a

Re: [HACKERS] MD5 authentication needs help

2015-03-04 Thread Stefan Kaltenbrunner
On 03/04/2015 04:52 PM, Stephen Frost wrote: Bruce, all, I've been discussing this with a few folks outside of the PG community (Debian and Openwall people specifically) and a few interesting ideas have come out of that which might be useful to discuss. The first is a don't break anything

Re: [HACKERS] failures with tuplesort and ordered set aggregates (due to 5cefbf5a6c44)

2015-03-04 Thread Peter Geoghegan
On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 8:26 AM, Robert Haas robertmh...@gmail.com wrote: I think we should commit my patch, and if a future patch needs sortKeys set in more places, it can make that change itself. There's no reason why it's needed with the code as it is today, and no reason to let bits of

Re: [HACKERS] MD5 authentication needs help

2015-03-04 Thread Stephen Frost
* Heikki Linnakangas (hlinn...@iki.fi) wrote: The big difference between SRP and SCRAM is that if you eavesdrop the SCRAM handshake, you can use that information to launch a brute-force or dictionary attack. With SRP, you cannot do that. That makes it relatively safe to use weak passwords with

Re: [HACKERS] MD5 authentication needs help

2015-03-04 Thread Stephen Frost
* Bruce Momjian (br...@momjian.us) wrote: On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 01:27:32PM -0500, Stephen Frost wrote: This further makes what is sent over the network not directly susceptible to a replay attack because the server has multiple values available to pick for the salt to use and sends one at

Re: [HACKERS] Bootstrap DATA is a pita

2015-03-04 Thread Alvaro Herrera
Andrew Dunstan wrote: On 03/04/2015 09:51 AM, Robert Haas wrote: On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 9:06 AM, Peter Eisentraut pete...@gmx.net wrote: and make it harder to compare entries by grepping out some common substring. Could you give an example of the sort of thing you wish to do? e.g. grep for

Re: [HACKERS] MD5 authentication needs help

2015-03-04 Thread Stephen Frost
* Bruce Momjian (br...@momjian.us) wrote: On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 02:21:51PM -0500, Stephen Frost wrote: * Bruce Momjian (br...@momjian.us) wrote: On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 01:27:32PM -0500, Stephen Frost wrote: This further makes what is sent over the network not directly susceptible

Re: [HACKERS] MD5 authentication needs help

2015-03-04 Thread Stephen Frost
* Bruce Momjian (br...@momjian.us) wrote: On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 12:43:54PM -0500, Stephen Frost wrote: What does storing multiple hash(password || stoarage_salt) values do for us that session_salt doesn't already do? By storing a hash of the result of the challenge/response, we

Re: [HACKERS] MD5 authentication needs help

2015-03-04 Thread Heikki Linnakangas
On 03/04/2015 06:11 PM, Stephen Frost wrote: * Magnus Hagander (mag...@hagander.net) wrote: On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 5:03 PM, Stephen Frost sfr...@snowman.net wrote: No, I'm not suggesting that OpenSSL or TLS become mandatory but was thinking it might be good alternative as a middle-ground

Re: [HACKERS] Reduce pinning in btree indexes

2015-03-04 Thread Kevin Grittner
Kyotaro HORIGUCHI horiguchi.kyot...@lab.ntt.co.jp wrote: The performance which your test shows looks great. The gain might comes from removing of buffer locking on _bt_next. Yeah, I had been hoping that removing some buffer pins and locks from the common path of scanning forward from one page

Re: [HACKERS] MD5 authentication needs help

2015-03-04 Thread Bruce Momjian
On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 01:27:32PM -0500, Stephen Frost wrote: This further makes what is sent over the network not directly susceptible to a replay attack because the server has multiple values available to pick for the salt to use and sends one at random to the client, exactly how our

Re: [HACKERS] MD5 authentication needs help

2015-03-04 Thread Bruce Momjian
On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 02:21:51PM -0500, Stephen Frost wrote: * Bruce Momjian (br...@momjian.us) wrote: On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 01:27:32PM -0500, Stephen Frost wrote: This further makes what is sent over the network not directly susceptible to a replay attack because the server has

Re: [HACKERS] Bootstrap DATA is a pita

2015-03-04 Thread Robert Haas
On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 2:27 PM, Alvaro Herrera alvhe...@2ndquadrant.com wrote: Andrew Dunstan wrote: On 03/04/2015 09:51 AM, Robert Haas wrote: On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 9:06 AM, Peter Eisentraut pete...@gmx.net wrote: and make it harder to compare entries by grepping out some common substring.

Re: [HACKERS] Providing catalog view to pg_hba.conf file - Patch submission

2015-03-04 Thread Peter Eisentraut
On 3/3/15 7:17 PM, Jim Nasby wrote: I think we're screwed in that regard anyway, because of the special constructs. You'd need different logic to handle things like +role and sameuser. We might even end up painted in a corner where we can't change it in the future because it'll break

Re: [HACKERS] New CF app deployment

2015-03-04 Thread Peter Eisentraut
On 3/3/15 11:11 AM, Bruce Momjian wrote: On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 10:58:28AM -0500, Bruce Momjian wrote: Would you suggest removing the automated system completely, or keep it around and just make it possible to override it (either by removing the note that something is a patch, or by making

Re: [HACKERS] MD5 authentication needs help

2015-03-04 Thread Stephen Frost
* Bruce Momjian (br...@momjian.us) wrote: On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 02:46:54PM -0500, Stephen Frost wrote: Well, passwords are already addressed by certificate authentication, so what's your point? I think we decided we wanted a way to do passwords without requiring network encryption.

Re: [HACKERS] MD5 authentication needs help

2015-03-04 Thread Stephen Frost
* Tom Lane (t...@sss.pgh.pa.us) wrote: Bruce Momjian br...@momjian.us writes: Let me update my list of possible improvements: 1) MD5 makes users feel uneasy (though our usage is mostly safe) 2) The per-session salt sent to the client is only 32-bits, meaning that it is possible to

Re: [HACKERS] xpath changes in the recent back branches

2015-03-04 Thread Peter Eisentraut
On 3/4/15 12:20 PM, Marko Tiikkaja wrote: On 3/4/15 6:19 PM, I wrote: On 3/4/15 5:26 PM, Tom Lane wrote: It was considered to be a bug fix; more, given the few complaints about the clearly-broken old behavior, we thought it was a fix that would affect few people, and them positively. Yeah,

Re: [HACKERS] MD5 authentication needs help

2015-03-04 Thread Stephen Frost
* Tom Lane (t...@sss.pgh.pa.us) wrote: Stephen Frost sfr...@snowman.net writes: * Tom Lane (t...@sss.pgh.pa.us) wrote: What happened to possession of the contents of pg_authid is sufficient to log in? I thought fixing that was one of the objectives here. Yes, it certainly was. I think

Re: [HACKERS] Bootstrap DATA is a pita

2015-03-04 Thread Robert Haas
On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 10:04 AM, Andrew Dunstan and...@dunslane.net wrote: Is it necessarily an all or nothing deal? Taking a previous example, we could have something like: { oid = 2249, oiddefine = 'CSTRINGOID', typname = 'cstring', typlen = -2, typbyval = 1,

Re: [HACKERS] Strange assertion using VACOPT_FREEZE in vacuum.c

2015-03-04 Thread Robert Haas
On Sun, Mar 1, 2015 at 6:58 AM, Michael Paquier michael.paqu...@gmail.com wrote: Hm, why not. That would remove all inconsistencies between the parser and the autovacuum code path. Perhaps something like the attached makes sense then? I really don't see this patch, or any of the previous ones,

Re: [HACKERS] MD5 authentication needs help

2015-03-04 Thread Stephen Frost
Magnus, * Magnus Hagander (mag...@hagander.net) wrote: On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 4:52 PM, Stephen Frost sfr...@snowman.net wrote: A lot of discussion has been going on with SCRAM and SASL, which is all great, but that means we end up with a dependency on SASL or we have to reimplement SCRAM

Re: [HACKERS] MD5 authentication needs help

2015-03-04 Thread Stephen Frost
* Magnus Hagander (mag...@hagander.net) wrote: On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 5:03 PM, Stephen Frost sfr...@snowman.net wrote: No, I'm not suggesting that OpenSSL or TLS become mandatory but was thinking it might be good alternative as a middle-ground between full client-and-server side

Re: [HACKERS] MD5 authentication needs help

2015-03-04 Thread Bruce Momjian
On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 02:46:54PM -0500, Stephen Frost wrote: Well, passwords are already addressed by certificate authentication, so what's your point? I think we decided we wanted a way to do passwords without requiring network encryption. It's completely unclear to me what you mean

Re: [HACKERS] Bootstrap DATA is a pita

2015-03-04 Thread Peter Eisentraut
On 3/4/15 9:51 AM, Robert Haas wrote: On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 9:06 AM, Peter Eisentraut pete...@gmx.net wrote: and make it harder to compare entries by grepping out some common substring. Could you give an example of the sort of thing you wish to do? e.g. grep for a function name and check

Re: [HACKERS] MD5 authentication needs help

2015-03-04 Thread Tom Lane
Bruce Momjian br...@momjian.us writes: Let me update my list of possible improvements: 1) MD5 makes users feel uneasy (though our usage is mostly safe) 2) The per-session salt sent to the client is only 32-bits, meaning that it is possible to reply an observed MD5 hash in ~16k connection

Re: [HACKERS] MD5 authentication needs help

2015-03-04 Thread Tom Lane
Stephen Frost sfr...@snowman.net writes: * Tom Lane (t...@sss.pgh.pa.us) wrote: What happened to possession of the contents of pg_authid is sufficient to log in? I thought fixing that was one of the objectives here. Yes, it certainly was. I think Bruce was thinking that we could simply

Re: [HACKERS] improve pgbench syntax error messages

2015-03-04 Thread Fabien COELHO
Indeed. Here is a v2. Here is a v3, which (1) activates better error messages from bison and (2) improves the error reporting from the scanner as well. sh ./pgbench -f bad.sql bad.sql:3: syntax error at column 23 in command set \set aid (1021 * :id) % ^ error found

Re: [HACKERS] MD5 authentication needs help

2015-03-04 Thread Heikki Linnakangas
On 03/04/2015 08:59 PM, Stephen Frost wrote: * Heikki Linnakangas (hlinn...@iki.fi) wrote: The big difference between SRP and SCRAM is that if you eavesdrop the SCRAM handshake, you can use that information to launch a brute-force or dictionary attack. With SRP, you cannot do that. That makes

Re: [HACKERS] Idea: closing the loop for pg_ctl reload

2015-03-04 Thread Peter Eisentraut
On 3/3/15 7:34 PM, Jim Nasby wrote: Definitely no multi-line. If we keep that restriction, couldn't we just dedicate one entire line to the error message? ISTM that would be safe. But we have multiline error messages. If we put only the first line in the pid file, then all the tools that build

Re: [HACKERS] MD5 authentication needs help

2015-03-04 Thread Robert Haas
On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 10:52 AM, Stephen Frost sfr...@snowman.net wrote: I've been discussing this with a few folks outside of the PG community (Debian and Openwall people specifically) and a few interesting ideas have come out of that which might be useful to discuss. The first is a don't

Re: [HACKERS] MD5 authentication needs help

2015-03-04 Thread Stephen Frost
* Robert Haas (robertmh...@gmail.com) wrote: So, the server can only authenticate the user with the salts it has stored, because those are the only salts for which it knows what the response should be? That's correct- except that it doesn't directly know what the response is, it only knows

Re: [HACKERS] xpath changes in the recent back branches

2015-03-04 Thread Robert Haas
On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 4:11 PM, Peter Eisentraut pete...@gmx.net wrote: That said, if I understand your test case correctly, this would basically be an argument against any semantic corrections in stable releases, since user code could expect to continue to work with the previous incorrect

Re: [HACKERS] Idea: closing the loop for pg_ctl reload

2015-03-04 Thread Alvaro Herrera
Peter Eisentraut wrote: On 3/3/15 7:34 PM, Jim Nasby wrote: Definitely no multi-line. If we keep that restriction, couldn't we just dedicate one entire line to the error message? ISTM that would be safe. But we have multiline error messages. If we put only the first line in the pid file,

Re: [HACKERS] Idea: closing the loop for pg_ctl reload

2015-03-04 Thread Andres Freund
On 2015-03-04 19:04:02 -0300, Alvaro Herrera wrote: This becomes pretty complicated for a PID file, mind you. Yes. Let's get the basic feature (notification of failed reloads) done first. That will be required with or without including the error message. Then we can get more fancy later, if

Re: [HACKERS] Using 128-bit integers for sum, avg and statistics aggregates

2015-03-04 Thread Andreas Karlsson
On 01/29/2015 12:28 AM, Peter Geoghegan wrote: On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 11:21 PM, Andreas Karlsson andr...@proxel.se wrote: Do you also think the SQL functions should be named numeric_int128_sum, numeric_int128_avg, etc? Some quick review comments. These apply to int128-agg-v5.patch. * Why is

Re: [HACKERS] Additional role attributes superuser review

2015-03-04 Thread Peter Eisentraut
On 2/28/15 10:10 PM, Stephen Frost wrote: Adam, * Adam Brightwell (adam.brightw...@crunchydatasolutions.com) wrote: I have attached and updated patch for review. Thanks! I've gone over this and made quite a few documentation and comment updates, but not too much else, so I'm pretty happy

Re: [HACKERS] anyarray

2015-03-04 Thread Peter Eisentraut
On 2/13/15 10:20 AM, Teodor Sigaev wrote: Some of users of intarray contrib module wish to use its features with another kind of arrays, not only for int4 type. Suggested module generalizes intarray over other (not all) types op pgsql. Anyarray also provides a calculation of similarity two

Re: [HACKERS] anyarray

2015-03-04 Thread Tom Lane
Peter Eisentraut pete...@gmx.net writes: On 2/13/15 10:20 AM, Teodor Sigaev wrote: Some of users of intarray contrib module wish to use its features with another kind of arrays, not only for int4 type. Suggested module generalizes intarray over other (not all) types op pgsql. I think this

Re: [HACKERS] CATUPDATE confusion?

2015-03-04 Thread Tom Lane
Peter Eisentraut pete...@gmx.net writes: Any other opinions? The options are: 0) Leave as is. 1) Remove catupdate and replace with superuser checks. 2) Remove catupdate and rely on regular table permissions on catalogs. I think I vote for (1). I do not like (2) because of the argument I

Re: [HACKERS] Weirdly pesimistic estimates in optimizer

2015-03-04 Thread David Kubečka
Hi Tomas and others, 2015-03-02 21:29 GMT+01:00 Tomas Vondra tomas.von...@2ndquadrant.com: Hi David ;-) On 2.3.2015 20:19, David Kubečka wrote: The question is why optimizer, or rather the cost estimator, produced so much different estimates upon very small change in input. Moreover

Re: [HACKERS] MD5 authentication needs help

2015-03-04 Thread Bruce Momjian
On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 03:59:02PM -0500, Stephen Frost wrote: * Tom Lane (t...@sss.pgh.pa.us) wrote: Bruce Momjian br...@momjian.us writes: Let me update my list of possible improvements: 1) MD5 makes users feel uneasy (though our usage is mostly safe) 2) The per-session salt

Re: [HACKERS] Proposal: knowing detail of config files via SQL

2015-03-04 Thread Peter Eisentraut
On 3/3/15 5:58 PM, Tom Lane wrote: Stephen Frost sfr...@snowman.net writes: It's not a documented policy but it's certainly what a whole slew of functions *do*. Including pg_start_backup, pg_stop_backup, pg_switch_xlog, pg_rotate_logfile, pg_create_restore_point, pg_xlog_replay_pause,

Re: [HACKERS] xpath changes in the recent back branches

2015-03-04 Thread Peter Eisentraut
On 3/4/15 5:00 PM, Robert Haas wrote: You can always test the server version number, and you'll have to for the next major release anyway. That's not really the problem, of course. The problem is you upgrade and your app unexpectedly breaks. The complexity of fixing that once it's

Re: [HACKERS] Proposal: knowing detail of config files via SQL

2015-03-04 Thread Peter Eisentraut
On 3/3/15 5:29 PM, Stephen Frost wrote: For my part, I understood that we specifically didn't want to allow that for the same reason that we didn't want to simply depend on the GRANT system for the above functions, but everyone else on these discussions so far is advocating for using the GRANT

Re: [HACKERS] MD5 authentication needs help

2015-03-04 Thread Bruce Momjian
On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 03:54:09PM -0500, Tom Lane wrote: Bruce Momjian br...@momjian.us writes: Let me update my list of possible improvements: 1) MD5 makes users feel uneasy (though our usage is mostly safe) 2) The per-session salt sent to the client is only 32-bits, meaning that

[HACKERS] a2e35b53 added unused variable to ConversionCreate()

2015-03-04 Thread Peter Geoghegan
I'm seeing this on a the master branch tip when building at -O2: pg_conversion.c: In function ‘ConversionCreate’: pg_conversion.c:53:6: error: variable ‘oid’ set but not used [-Werror=unused-but-set-variable] Oid oid; ^ cc1: all warnings being treated as errors I think that commit

Re: [HACKERS] MD5 authentication needs help

2015-03-04 Thread Josh Berkus
Catching up here ... On 03/03/2015 06:01 PM, Bruce Momjian wrote: It feels like MD5 has accumulated enough problems that we need to start looking for another way to store and pass passwords. The MD5 problems are: 1) MD5 makes users feel uneasy (though our usage is mostly safe) 2) The

Re: [HACKERS] MD5 authentication needs help

2015-03-04 Thread Bruce Momjian
On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 05:56:25PM -0800, Josh Berkus wrote: Catching up here ... On 03/03/2015 06:01 PM, Bruce Momjian wrote: It feels like MD5 has accumulated enough problems that we need to start looking for another way to store and pass passwords. The MD5 problems are: 1) MD5

Re: [HACKERS] Add pg_settings.pending_restart column

2015-03-04 Thread Peter Eisentraut
On 2/17/15 10:45 AM, Robert Haas wrote: You don't really need the else here, and in parallel cases: if (*conf-variable != newval) { +record-status |= GUC_PENDING_RESTART; ereport(elevel,

Re: [HACKERS] MD5 authentication needs help

2015-03-04 Thread Bruce Momjian
On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 04:19:00PM -0500, Stephen Frost wrote: Hm, well, don't change the wireline protocol could be another wanna-have ... but if we want to stop using MD5, that's not really a realistic goal is it? I'm trying to address both sides of the issue- improve the current

Re: [HACKERS] Join push-down support for foreign tables

2015-03-04 Thread Kouhei Kaigai
Here is v4 patch of Join push-down support for foreign tables. This patch requires Custom/Foreign join patch v7 posted by Kaigai-san. Thanks for your efforts, In this version I added check about query type which gives up pushing down joins when the join is a part of an underlying query of

Re: [HACKERS] Add pg_settings.pending_restart column

2015-03-04 Thread Peter Eisentraut
On 2/15/15 3:41 AM, David G Johnston wrote: Otherwise it seems fine but I cannot help but feel that false positives are possible; though nothing that doesn't already exist. Mainly, is the change going to end up only affect the reset or default value but not the currently active value? I

Re: [HACKERS] Idea: closing the loop for pg_ctl reload

2015-03-04 Thread Jan de Visser
On March 4, 2015 11:08:09 PM Andres Freund wrote: Let's get the basic feature (notification of failed reloads) done first. That will be required with or without including the error message. Then we can get more fancy later, if somebody really wants to invest the time. Except for also fixing

Re: [HACKERS] Proposal: knowing detail of config files via SQL

2015-03-04 Thread Peter Eisentraut
On 3/2/15 4:47 PM, Robert Haas wrote: On Sat, Feb 28, 2015 at 12:27 AM, Stephen Frost sfr...@snowman.net wrote: While this generally works, the usual expectation is that functions that should be superuser-only have a check in the function rather than depending on the execute privilege. I'm

Re: [HACKERS] CATUPDATE confusion?

2015-03-04 Thread Peter Eisentraut
Any other opinions? The options are: 0) Leave as is. 1) Remove catupdate and replace with superuser checks. 2) Remove catupdate and rely on regular table permissions on catalogs. -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription:

Re: [HACKERS] forward vs backward slashes in msvc build code

2015-03-04 Thread Andrew Dunstan
On 03/04/2015 10:37 PM, Peter Eisentraut wrote: On 2/15/15 6:55 AM, Michael Paquier wrote: I tested quickly the second patch with MS 2010 and I am getting a build failure: chkpass cannot complete because of crypt missing. On master build passes. More details here:

Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade and rsync

2015-03-04 Thread Vladimir Borodin
4 марта 2015 г., в 19:28, Bruce Momjian br...@momjian.us написал(а): On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 01:53:47PM +0300, Vladimir Borodin wrote: After running initdb to create the new master, but before running pg_upgrade, modify the new master's postgresql.conf and change wal_level =

Re: [HACKERS] Combining Aggregates

2015-03-04 Thread Kouhei Kaigai
On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 4:41 AM, David Rowley dgrowle...@gmail.com wrote: This thread mentions parallel queries as a use case, but that means passing data between processes, and that requires being able to serialize and deserialize the aggregate state somehow. For actual data types that's

Re: [HACKERS] File based Incremental backup v8

2015-03-04 Thread Bruce Momjian
On Thu, Mar 5, 2015 at 01:25:13PM +0900, Fujii Masao wrote: Yeah, it might make the situation better than today. But I'm afraid that many users might get disappointed about that behavior of an incremental backup after the release... I don't get what do you mean here. Can you elaborate

Re: [HACKERS] Strange assertion using VACOPT_FREEZE in vacuum.c

2015-03-04 Thread Michael Paquier
On Thu, Mar 5, 2015 at 12:54 AM, Stephen Frost sfr...@snowman.net wrote: * Robert Haas (robertmh...@gmail.com) wrote: On Sun, Mar 1, 2015 at 6:58 AM, Michael Paquier michael.paqu...@gmail.com wrote: Hm, why not. That would remove all inconsistencies between the parser and the autovacuum

Re: [HACKERS] failures with tuplesort and ordered set aggregates (due to 5cefbf5a6c44)

2015-03-04 Thread Robert Haas
On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 7:14 PM, Peter Geoghegan p...@heroku.com wrote: My patch actually matches Andrew Gierth's datumsort patch, in that it also uses this convention, as I believe it should. For that reason, I'd prefer to make the comment added in November true, rather than changing the

Re: [HACKERS] forward vs backward slashes in msvc build code

2015-03-04 Thread Peter Eisentraut
On 2/15/15 6:55 AM, Michael Paquier wrote: I tested quickly the second patch with MS 2010 and I am getting a build failure: chkpass cannot complete because of crypt missing. On master build passes. More details here: C:\Users\mpaquier\git\postgres\pgsql.sln (default target) (1) -

Re: [HACKERS] File based Incremental backup v8

2015-03-04 Thread Fujii Masao
On Thu, Mar 5, 2015 at 1:59 AM, Marco Nenciarini marco.nenciar...@2ndquadrant.it wrote: Hi Fujii, Il 03/03/15 11:48, Fujii Masao ha scritto: On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 12:36 AM, Marco Nenciarini marco.nenciar...@2ndquadrant.it wrote: Il 02/03/15 14:21, Fujii Masao ha scritto: On Thu, Feb 12,

Re: [HACKERS] Reduce pinning in btree indexes

2015-03-04 Thread Kyotaro HORIGUCHI
Hello, It looks like the remaining performance regression was indeed a result of code alignment. I found two paranoia assignments I had accidentally failed to put back with the rest of the mark/restore optimization; after that trivial change the patched version is ever-so-slightly faster

Re: [HACKERS] Join push-down support for foreign tables

2015-03-04 Thread Etsuro Fujita
On 2015/03/03 21:34, Shigeru Hanada wrote: I rebased join push-down patch onto Kaigai-san's Custom/Foreign Join v6 patch. Thanks for the work, Hanada-san and KaiGai-san! Maybe I'm missing something, but did we agree to take this approach, ie, join push-down on top of custom join? There is a

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