Re: [HACKERS] Changing pg_dump default file format

On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 11:26:34AM -0500, Tom Lane wrote: > Robert Haas writes: > >> However, pggit log 9f0ae0c82060e3dcd1fa7ac8bbe35a3f9a44dbba does not > >> show that line being added by the diff. > > > I dunno what your pggit script does, but "git log" doesn't normally > > show the diff at all

Re: [HACKERS] Changing pg_dump default file format

Robert Haas writes: >> However, pggit log 9f0ae0c82060e3dcd1fa7ac8bbe35a3f9a44dbba does not >> show that line being added by the diff. > I dunno what your pggit script does, but "git log" doesn't normally > show the diff at all. "git show > 9f0ae0c82060e3dcd1fa7ac8bbe35a3f9a44dbba", however, doe

Re: [HACKERS] Changing pg_dump default file format

On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 3:21 PM, Bruce Momjian wrote: > On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 02:40:17PM -0500, Peter Eisentraut wrote: >> On 11/7/13, 1:00 PM, Josh Berkus wrote: >> > If we wanted to change the defaults, I think it would be easier to >> > create a separate bin name (e.g. pg_backup) than to chan

Re: [HACKERS] Changing pg_dump default file format

On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 02:40:17PM -0500, Peter Eisentraut wrote: > On 11/7/13, 1:00 PM, Josh Berkus wrote: > > If we wanted to change the defaults, I think it would be easier to > > create a separate bin name (e.g. pg_backup) than to change the existing > > parameters for pg_dump. > > Note the fo

Re: [HACKERS] Changing pg_dump default file format

On 11/07/2013 08:35 PM, Craig Ringer wrote: > I've seen all sorts of combinations of client and server versions in the > wild. Ancient JDBC, ODBC, etc drivers are also common. There's a security compromise out there for the 8.1 JDBC driver which was discovered last year, and folks *keep* reporting

Re: [HACKERS] Changing pg_dump default file format

I don't want to hijack this thread any further, but Craig, thanks for your insight. -Harold On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 8:35 PM, Craig Ringer wrote: > On 11/08/2013 11:41 AM, Harold Giménez wrote: > > > > > > > > On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 7:01 PM, Craig Ringer > > wrote:

Re: [HACKERS] Changing pg_dump default file format

On 11/08/2013 11:41 AM, Harold Giménez wrote: > > > > On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 7:01 PM, Craig Ringer > wrote: > > > (a) Lots of people only upgrade every two, three, or even more major > versions. I'm dealing with clients on 8.3, and people still pop up on

Re: [HACKERS] Changing pg_dump default file format

On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 7:01 PM, Craig Ringer wrote: > > (a) Lots of people only upgrade every two, three, or even more major > versions. I'm dealing with clients on 8.3, and people still pop up on > Stack Overflow with 8.1 sometimes! These people don't ever see the > deprecated phase. > Interest

Re: [HACKERS] Changing pg_dump default file format

On 11/08/2013 07:33 AM, Joshua D. Drake wrote: >> > > All I want to start is this simple fix. I don't know who is going to > step up to work on pg_dump/all considering it is the bastard step child > of the project. We only work on it when we absolutely have to (and CMD > is just as guilty as the r

Re: [HACKERS] Changing pg_dump default file format

On 11/08/2013 12:55 AM, Joshua D. Drake wrote: > > We have certainly done worse in the past. 8.3 comes to mind. I am trying > to consider the future here, as we continue to grow. Why leave thorns > for the sake of leaving thorns? 8.3 was _bad_. It's been a major upgrade barrier, and a huge pain.

Re: [HACKERS] Changing pg_dump default file format

On 11/08/2013 12:53 AM, Harold Giménez wrote: > > > Just a thought: If it's the right thing to do, why not do it in small > steps? > For example, couldn't we deprecate the behavior on 9.4, and switch over in > 9.5? By deprecate I mean a warning message on STDERR making it clear > they're relyin

Re: [HACKERS] Changing pg_dump default file format

On 11/07/2013 06:33 PM, Joshua D. Drake wrote: On 11/07/2013 12:42 PM, Josh Berkus wrote: All, I'm amused at how this has become a "let's pile on everything which has ever been missing in pg_dump into one thread". Well it has been broken longer than most of our utilities. Sorry... not bro

Re: [HACKERS] Changing pg_dump default file format

On 11/07/2013 12:42 PM, Josh Berkus wrote: All, I'm amused at how this has become a "let's pile on everything which has ever been missing in pg_dump into one thread". Well it has been broken longer than most of our utilities. Sorry... not broken but certainly not complete. It is to be expec

Re: [HACKERS] Changing pg_dump default file format

All, I'm amused at how this has become a "let's pile on everything which has ever been missing in pg_dump into one thread". Agree with Tom that if we're going to create a new program name, we should fix the pg_dumpall issue as well. -- Josh Berkus PostgreSQL Experts Inc. http://pgexperts.com

Re: [HACKERS] Changing pg_dump default file format

On 11/07/2013 02:27 PM, Jan Lentfer wrote: Btw, how hard would it be, to have pg_restore and now also pg_dump run with -j option do some ordering of work by size of e.g. the tables? E.g. if you run with -j4 it would make sense to start working on the largest tables (and it's indexes) first and

Re: [HACKERS] Changing pg_dump default file format

On 11/07/2013 10:54 AM, Kevin Grittner wrote: That is who I am thinking of. A DBA team may have hundreds of databases to manage, each with many scripts which have been running nicely for years. A change like this is bound to break some of those crontab scripts they may not even remember they

Re: [HACKERS] Changing pg_dump default file format

On 11/7/13, 1:00 PM, Josh Berkus wrote: > If we wanted to change the defaults, I think it would be easier to > create a separate bin name (e.g. pg_backup) than to change the existing > parameters for pg_dump. Note the following code in pg_dump.c: /* Set default options based on progname */

Re: [HACKERS] Changing pg_dump default file format

On 11/07/2013 11:01 AM, Alvaro Herrera wrote: Maybe we could provide a master controller program (pg_backup or whatever name we agree on), which could receive commands much like pg_ctl. $ pg_backup --help pg_backup is a backup handler program for PostgreSQL. Usage: pg_backup backup [-p PAT

Re: [HACKERS] Changing pg_dump default file format

Am 07.11.2013 19:08, schrieb Joshua D. Drake:> > On 11/07/2013 10:00 AM, Josh Berkus wrote: >> If we wanted to change the defaults, I think it would be easier to >> create a separate bin name (e.g. pg_backup) than to change the existing >> parameters for pg_dump. > > I am not opposed to that. Allo

Re: [HACKERS] Changing pg_dump default file format

Tom Lane wrote: > Josh Berkus writes: > > If we wanted to change the defaults, I think it would be easier to > > create a separate bin name (e.g. pg_backup) than to change the existing > > parameters for pg_dump. > > That might work. However, just to be contrary: what about the > functionality o

Re: [HACKERS] Changing pg_dump default file format

Joshua D. Drake wrote: > PITR is wonderful, I use it all the time. It has exactly zero to > do with what we are talking about. We are talking about pg_dump > and its usefulness. Are you suggesting that we tell people to not > use pg_dump and instead use PITR? Yes.  (Well, actually, any of the WA

Re: [HACKERS] Changing pg_dump default file format

On Thu, Nov 07, 2013 at 01:45:20PM -0500, Tom Lane wrote: > Josh Berkus writes: > > If we wanted to change the defaults, I think it would be easier to > > create a separate bin name (e.g. pg_backup) than to change the > > existing parameters for pg_dump. > > That might work. However, just to be

Re: [HACKERS] Changing pg_dump default file format

On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 8:53 AM, Joshua D. Drake wrote: > > On 11/07/2013 08:21 AM, Kevin Grittner wrote: > > I humbly request on behalf of those who manage production postgresql >>> instances that we change the default backup file format from -Fp to -Fc. >>> >> >> -1 in the case that output goes

Re: [HACKERS] Changing pg_dump default file format

Josh Berkus writes: > If we wanted to change the defaults, I think it would be easier to > create a separate bin name (e.g. pg_backup) than to change the existing > parameters for pg_dump. That might work. However, just to be contrary: what about the functionality of pg_dumpall? We've heard rep

Re: [HACKERS] Changing pg_dump default file format

On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 7:08 PM, Joshua D. Drake wrote: > > On 11/07/2013 10:00 AM, Josh Berkus wrote: >> >> >> On 11/07/2013 08:26 AM, Tom Lane wrote: >>> >>> Magnus Hagander writes: On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 5:02 PM, Joshua D. Drake wrote: > > I humbly request on behalf of t

Re: [HACKERS] Changing pg_dump default file format

On 2013-11-07 10:00:53 -0800, Josh Berkus wrote: > If we wanted to change the defaults, I think it would be easier to > create a separate bin name (e.g. pg_backup) than to change the existing > parameters for pg_dump. Provided somebody is actually willing to put in the not inconsiderable amount of

Re: [HACKERS] Changing pg_dump default file format

On 11/07/2013 10:00 AM, Josh Berkus wrote: On 11/07/2013 08:26 AM, Tom Lane wrote: Magnus Hagander writes: On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 5:02 PM, Joshua D. Drake wrote: I humbly request on behalf of those who manage production postgresql instances that we change the default backup file format fro

Re: [HACKERS] Changing pg_dump default file format

On 11/07/2013 08:26 AM, Tom Lane wrote: > Magnus Hagander writes: >> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 5:02 PM, Joshua D. Drake >> wrote: >>> I humbly request on behalf of those who manage production postgresql >>> instances that we change the default backup file format from -Fp to -Fc. > >> I'm a bit wor

Re: [HACKERS] Changing pg_dump default file format

On 11/07/2013 09:25 AM, Magnus Hagander wrote: PITR is wonderful, I use it all the time. It has exactly zero to do with what we are talking about. We are talking about pg_dump and its usefulness. Are you suggesting that we tell people to not use pg_dump and instead use PITR? For backups, abso

Re: [HACKERS] Changing pg_dump default file format

On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 5:53 PM, Joshua D. Drake wrote: > > On 11/07/2013 08:21 AM, Kevin Grittner wrote: > >>> I humbly request on behalf of those who manage production postgresql >>> instances that we change the default backup file format from -Fp to -Fc. >> >> >> -1 in the case that output goes

Re: [HACKERS] Changing pg_dump default file format

On 11/07/2013 08:26 AM, Tom Lane wrote: Magnus Hagander writes: On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 5:02 PM, Joshua D. Drake wrote: I humbly request on behalf of those who manage production postgresql instances that we change the default backup file format from -Fp to -Fc. I'm a bit worried about it b

Re: [HACKERS] Changing pg_dump default file format

On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 8:26 AM, Tom Lane wrote: > Magnus Hagander writes: > > On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 5:02 PM, Joshua D. Drake > wrote: > >> I humbly request on behalf of those who manage production postgresql > >> instances that we change the default backup file format from -Fp to -Fc. > > > I'

Re: [HACKERS] Changing pg_dump default file format

On 11/07/2013 08:21 AM, Kevin Grittner wrote: I humbly request on behalf of those who manage production postgresql instances that we change the default backup file format from -Fp to -Fc. -1 in the case that output goes to stdout. It might make sense for when -f is specified. As a DBA, 90%

Re: [HACKERS] Changing pg_dump default file format

On 11/07/2013 08:17 AM, Andrew Dunstan wrote: At least it gives you a nice message now instead of the rather cryptic message it used to give: [andrew@emma inst.5715]$ bin/pg_dump -f foo.sql [andrew@emma inst.5715]$ bin/pg_restore foo.sql pg_restore: [archiver] input file appears t

Re: [HACKERS] Changing pg_dump default file format

Magnus Hagander writes: > On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 5:02 PM, Joshua D. Drake > wrote: >> I humbly request on behalf of those who manage production postgresql >> instances that we change the default backup file format from -Fp to -Fc. > I'm a bit worried about it breaking peoples scripts as well, i

Re: [HACKERS] Changing pg_dump default file format

Joshua D. Drake wrote: > For as long as I can remember I have heard complaints about the fact > that pg_dump doesn't use a backup format that is supported by the > pg_restore program. At every single talk that I give that talks about > pg_dump, the people in the majority of the audience agrees th

Re: [HACKERS] Changing pg_dump default file format

On 11/07/2013 11:02 AM, Joshua D. Drake wrote: Hello, For as long as I can remember I have heard complaints about the fact that pg_dump doesn't use a backup format that is supported by the pg_restore program. At every single talk that I give that talks about pg_dump, the people in the major

Re: [HACKERS] Changing pg_dump default file format

On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 5:02 PM, Joshua D. Drake wrote: > > Hello, > > For as long as I can remember I have heard complaints about the fact that > pg_dump doesn't use a backup format that is supported by the pg_restore > program. At every single talk that I give that talks about pg_dump, the > peop

[HACKERS] Changing pg_dump default file format

Hello, For as long as I can remember I have heard complaints about the fact that pg_dump doesn't use a backup format that is supported by the pg_restore program. At every single talk that I give that talks about pg_dump, the people in the majority of the audience agrees that this is rather s