Re: [PERFORM] Adaptec/LSI/?? RAID
Stacy White wrote: We're in the process of buying another Opteron server to run Postgres, and based on the suggestions in this list I've asked our IT director to get an LSI MegaRaid controller rather than one of the Adaptecs. But when we tried to place our order, our vendor (Penguin Computing) advised "we find LSI does not work well with 4GB of RAM. Our engineering find that LSI card could cause system crashes. One of our customer ... has found that Adaptec cards works well on PostGres SQL Probably, your vendor is trying to avoid problems at all, but "one of our customers" is not a pretty general case, and "we find LSI does not work well", but is there a documented reason? Anyway, my personal experience has been with an Acer Altos R701 + S300 external storage unit, equipped with LSI Logic Megaraid U320 aka AMI Megaraid aka LSI Elite 1600 (honestly, these cards come with zillions of names and subnames, that I don't know exactly how to call them). This system was configured in various ways. The final layout is 3 x RAID1 arrays (each of 2 disks) and 1 x RAID10 array (12 disks). This configuration is only available when you use 2 LSI cards (one for each S300 scsi bus). The system behaves pretty well, with a sustained sequential write rate of 80Mb/s, and more importantly, a quite high load in our environment of 10 oltp transactions per second, without any problems and `cat /proc/loadavg` < 1. I don't like the raid configuration system of LSI, that is counter-intuitive for raid 10 arrays. It got me 4 hours and a tech support call to figure out how to do it right. Also, I think LSI cards don't behave well with particular raid configurations, like RAID 0 with 4 disks, or RAID 10 with also 4 disks. It seemed that these configurations put the controller under heavy load, thus behaving unreasonably worse than, for example, 6-disks-RAID0 or 6-disks-RAID1. Sorry, I can't be more "scientific" on this. For Adaptec, I don't have any direct experience. -- Cosimo ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PERFORM] Adaptec/LSI/?? RAID (what about JBOD?)
Thanks, Andrew. I expect to choose between HBAs with no RAID functionality or with the option to completely bypass RAID functionality--meaning that I'll hopefully avoid the situation that you've described. I'm mostly curious as to whether the driver problems described for U320 Adaptec RAID controllers also apply to the regular SCSI drivers. Thanks. Quoting Andrew McMillan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > On Thu, 2005-06-02 at 14:02 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > I have a similar question about what to choose (either LSI or Adaptec > U320), but > > plan to use them just for JBOD drivers. I expect to be using either net > or > > freebsd. The system CPU will be Opteron. My impression is that both the > ahd > > and mpt drivers (for U320 Adaptec and LSI, respectively) are quite stable, > but > > not from personal experience. Like I said, I don't plan to have the cards > doing > > RAID in hardware. Should I be pretty safe with either choice of HBA > then? > > On the machine I mentioned earlier in this thread we use the Megaraid > for JBOD, but the card setup to use the disks that way was somewhat > confusing, requiring us to configure logical drives that in fact matched > the physical ones. The card still wanted to write that information onto > the disks, reducing the total disk space available by some amount, but > also meaning that we were unable to migrate our system from a previous > non-RAID card cleanly. > > Regards, > Andrew. > > - > Andrew @ Catalyst .Net .NZ Ltd, PO Box 11-053, Manners St, Wellington > WEB: http://catalyst.net.nz/PHYS: Level 2, 150-154 Willis St > DDI: +64(4)803-2201 MOB: +64(272)DEBIAN OFFICE: +64(4)499-2267 > Whereof one cannot speak, thereon one must remain silent. -- Wittgenstein > - > > ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faq
Re: [PERFORM] Adaptec/LSI/?? RAID (what about JBOD?)
On Thu, 2005-06-02 at 14:02 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > I have a similar question about what to choose (either LSI or Adaptec U320), > but > plan to use them just for JBOD drivers. I expect to be using either net or > freebsd. The system CPU will be Opteron. My impression is that both the ahd > and mpt drivers (for U320 Adaptec and LSI, respectively) are quite stable, but > not from personal experience. Like I said, I don't plan to have the cards > doing > RAID in hardware. Should I be pretty safe with either choice of HBA then? On the machine I mentioned earlier in this thread we use the Megaraid for JBOD, but the card setup to use the disks that way was somewhat confusing, requiring us to configure logical drives that in fact matched the physical ones. The card still wanted to write that information onto the disks, reducing the total disk space available by some amount, but also meaning that we were unable to migrate our system from a previous non-RAID card cleanly. Regards, Andrew. - Andrew @ Catalyst .Net .NZ Ltd, PO Box 11-053, Manners St, Wellington WEB: http://catalyst.net.nz/PHYS: Level 2, 150-154 Willis St DDI: +64(4)803-2201 MOB: +64(272)DEBIAN OFFICE: +64(4)499-2267 Whereof one cannot speak, thereon one must remain silent. -- Wittgenstein - signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [PERFORM] Adaptec/LSI/?? RAID (what about JBOD?)
I have a similar question about what to choose (either LSI or Adaptec U320), but plan to use them just for JBOD drivers. I expect to be using either net or freebsd. The system CPU will be Opteron. My impression is that both the ahd and mpt drivers (for U320 Adaptec and LSI, respectively) are quite stable, but not from personal experience. Like I said, I don't plan to have the cards doing RAID in hardware. Should I be pretty safe with either choice of HBA then? Thanks (and sorry for the semi-hijack). Quoting Vivek Khera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > On Jun 1, 2005, at 11:42 PM, Stacy White wrote: > > > "we find LSI does not work well with 4GB of RAM. Our engineering > > find that > > LSI card could cause system crashes. One of our customer ... has > > found that > > Adaptec cards works well on PostGres SQL -- they're using it as a > > preforce > > server with xfs and post-gress." > > > > Any comments? Suggestions for other RAID controllers? > > > > I have twin dual opteron, 4GB RAM, LSI MegaRAID-2X cards with 8 disks > ([EMAIL PROTECTED] system+pg_xlog, [EMAIL PROTECTED] data) running FreeBSD > 5.4-RELEASE. > > Works just perfectly fine under some very heavy insert/update/delete > load. Database + indexes hovers at about 50Gb. > > I don't use the adaptec controllers because they don't support > FreeBSD well (and vice versa) and the management tools are not there > for FreeBSD in a supported fashion like they are for LSI. > > > Vivek Khera, Ph.D. > +1-301-869-4449 x806 > > > ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [PERFORM] Adaptec/LSI/?? RAID
On Jun 1, 2005, at 11:42 PM, Stacy White wrote: "we find LSI does not work well with 4GB of RAM. Our engineering find that LSI card could cause system crashes. One of our customer ... has found that Adaptec cards works well on PostGres SQL -- they're using it as a preforce server with xfs and post-gress." Any comments? Suggestions for other RAID controllers? I have twin dual opteron, 4GB RAM, LSI MegaRAID-2X cards with 8 disks ([EMAIL PROTECTED] system+pg_xlog, [EMAIL PROTECTED] data) running FreeBSD 5.4-RELEASE. Works just perfectly fine under some very heavy insert/update/delete load. Database + indexes hovers at about 50Gb. I don't use the adaptec controllers because they don't support FreeBSD well (and vice versa) and the management tools are not there for FreeBSD in a supported fashion like they are for LSI. Vivek Khera, Ph.D. +1-301-869-4449 x806 smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
Re: [PERFORM] Adaptec/LSI/?? RAID
It may be anecdotal, but LSI MegaRAID cards generally seem to work pretty well with Linux. The only problem I've ever seen was a BIOS problem between the LSI and the motherboard, which was solved by flashing the BIOS on the motherboard with the latest version (it was grossly out of date anyway). At Command Prompt we have also had some great success with the LSI cards. The only thing we didn't like is the obscure way you have to configure RAID 10. Sincerely, Joshua D. Drake J. Andrew Rogers ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org -- Your PostgreSQL solutions company - Command Prompt, Inc. 1.800.492.2240 PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Programming, 24x7 support Managed Services, Shared and Dedicated Hosting Co-Authors: plPHP, plPerlNG - http://www.commandprompt.com/ ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [PERFORM] Adaptec/LSI/?? RAID
I've got a bunch of mission-critical Postgres servers on Opterons, all with no less than 4GB RAM, running Linux + XFS, and most with LSI MegaRAID cards. We've never had a single system crash or failure on our postgres servers, and some of them are well-used and with uptimes in excess of a year. It may be anecdotal, but LSI MegaRAID cards generally seem to work pretty well with Linux. The only problem I've ever seen was a BIOS problem between the LSI and the motherboard, which was solved by flashing the BIOS on the motherboard with the latest version (it was grossly out of date anyway). J. Andrew Rogers ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [PERFORM] Adaptec/LSI/?? RAID
On Wed, 01 Jun 2005 22:00:09 -0700 William Yu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I've previously stayed away from Adaptec because we used to run Solaris > x86 and the driver was somewhat buggy. For Linux and FreeBSD, I'd be > less worried as open source development of drivers usually lead to > better testing & bug-fixing. Adaptec is in the doghouse in some corners of the community because they have behaved badly about releasing documentation on some of their current RAID controllers to *BSD developers. FreeBSD has a not-quite-free driver for those latest Adaptecs. OpenBSD wants nothing to do with them. richard -- Richard Welty [EMAIL PROTECTED] Averill Park Networking Java, PHP, PostgreSQL, Unix, Linux, IP Network Engineering, Security "Well, if you're not going to expect unexpected flames, what's the point of going anywhere?" -- Truckle the Uncivil ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [PERFORM] Adaptec/LSI/?? RAID
On Wed, 2005-06-01 at 20:42 -0700, Stacy White wrote: > We're in the process of buying another Opteron server to run Postgres, and > based on the suggestions in this list I've asked our IT director to get an > LSI MegaRaid controller rather than one of the Adaptecs. > > But when we tried to place our order, our vendor (Penguin Computing) advised > us: > > "we find LSI does not work well with 4GB of RAM. Our engineering find that > LSI card could cause system crashes. One of our customer ... has found that > Adaptec cards works well on PostGres SQL -- they're using it as a preforce > server with xfs and post-gress." > > Any comments? Suggestions for other RAID controllers? Hi, We're using the Megaraid (Intel branded model) on a dual Opteron system with 8G RAM very happily. The motherboard is a RioWorks one, the OS is Debian "Sarge" AMD64 with kernel 2.6.11.8 and PostgreSQL 7.4.7. Cheers, Andrew. - Andrew @ Catalyst .Net .NZ Ltd, PO Box 11-053, Manners St, Wellington WEB: http://catalyst.net.nz/PHYS: Level 2, 150-154 Willis St DDI: +64(4)803-2201 MOB: +64(272)DEBIAN OFFICE: +64(4)499-2267 - signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [PERFORM] Adaptec/LSI/?? RAID
I've used LSI MegaRAIDs successfully in the following systems with both Redhat 9 and FC3 64bit. Arima HDAMA/8GB RAM Tyan S2850/4GB RAM Tyan S2881/4GB RAM I've previously stayed away from Adaptec because we used to run Solaris x86 and the driver was somewhat buggy. For Linux and FreeBSD, I'd be less worried as open source development of drivers usually lead to better testing & bug-fixing. Stacy White wrote: We're in the process of buying another Opteron server to run Postgres, and based on the suggestions in this list I've asked our IT director to get an LSI MegaRaid controller rather than one of the Adaptecs. But when we tried to place our order, our vendor (Penguin Computing) advised us: "we find LSI does not work well with 4GB of RAM. Our engineering find that LSI card could cause system crashes. One of our customer ... has found that Adaptec cards works well on PostGres SQL -- they're using it as a preforce server with xfs and post-gress." Any comments? Suggestions for other RAID controllers? ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 7: don't forget to increase your free space map settings ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 7: don't forget to increase your free space map settings
Re: [PERFORM] Adaptec/LSI/?? RAID
Stacy White presumably uttered the following on 06/01/05 23:42: We're in the process of buying another Opteron server to run Postgres, and based on the suggestions in this list I've asked our IT director to get an LSI MegaRaid controller rather than one of the Adaptecs. But when we tried to place our order, our vendor (Penguin Computing) advised us: "we find LSI does not work well with 4GB of RAM. Our engineering find that LSI card could cause system crashes. One of our customer ... has found that Adaptec cards works well on PostGres SQL -- they're using it as a preforce server with xfs and post-gress." Any comments? Suggestions for other RAID controllers? ---(end of broadcast)--- We use the LSI MegaRaid 320-2x with the battery-backed cache on a dual opteron system that uses 8G of RAM. OS is FreeBSD amd64 (5.4) and runs without hesitation. Database currently over 100GB and it performs admirably. So chalk one anecdotal item towards the LSI column. To be fair I have not tried an Adaptec card with this setup so I cannot comment positively or negatively on that card. As a side note, we did have issues with this setup with Linux (2.6 kernel - 64bit) and XFS file system (we generally use FreeBSD but I wanted to try other 64bit OSes before committing). Whether the linux issues were due to the LSI, memory, Tyan mobo, or something else was never determined -- FreeBSD ran it and did so without flinching so our choice was easy. HTH Sven ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faq
[PERFORM] Adaptec/LSI/?? RAID
We're in the process of buying another Opteron server to run Postgres, and based on the suggestions in this list I've asked our IT director to get an LSI MegaRaid controller rather than one of the Adaptecs. But when we tried to place our order, our vendor (Penguin Computing) advised us: "we find LSI does not work well with 4GB of RAM. Our engineering find that LSI card could cause system crashes. One of our customer ... has found that Adaptec cards works well on PostGres SQL -- they're using it as a preforce server with xfs and post-gress." Any comments? Suggestions for other RAID controllers? ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 7: don't forget to increase your free space map settings
