Re: [Pharo-users] Slashdot Submission

[Travis Ayres]

I would guess the conversion rate for trying out a language from a Slashdot
article (or anywhere, really) would be in the 1% range - I've noticed that
HN articles only occasionally get a comment from someone trying out the
mentioned article.

On Dec 30, 2016 12:22 PM, "horrido"  wrote:

> It would appear that my submission to Slashdot has been passed over. To my
> knowledge, it hasn't been posted.
>
> It was out of date anyway. Today, my TechBeacon article surpassed 20,000
> views...weeks ahead of schedule!
>
> That's a lot of readers. I have no idea how many of them were convinced to
> give Smalltalk a shot, but I imagine it has to be more than a few. Maybe a
> couple of thousand? Maybe?
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Slashdot-Submission-
> tp4928235p4928427.html
> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>

Re: [Pharo-users] Slashdot Submission

[horrido]

It would appear that my submission to Slashdot has been passed over. To my
knowledge, it hasn't been posted.

It was out of date anyway. Today, my TechBeacon article surpassed 20,000
views...weeks ahead of schedule!

That's a lot of readers. I have no idea how many of them were convinced to
give Smalltalk a shot, but I imagine it has to be more than a few. Maybe a
couple of thousand? Maybe?



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Re: [Pharo-users] webcam images for image processing

[Mariano Martinez Peck]

Hi,

I think you MUST talk to Juan Vuletich (CCed) as he is doing satellites
image processing in Smalltalk.

Cheers


On Fri, Dec 30, 2016 at 3:15 PM, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas <
offray.l...@mutabit.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
>
> On 30/12/16 03:47, Dimitris Chloupis wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> What I have found is that pharo is excellent as a central nervous system
>> , Brain + nerves , for an application. Because not only the language is
>> simple, but mostly because of live coding and ability of the IDE to deal
>> with complex code and isolate bugs.
>>
>
> I think that the Pharo approach could be something like the Cyborgs one of
> Star Trek. Attach to a preexisting substrate and extend it :-P. Seriously,
> having Pharo to talk better with the external non-Pharo/Smalltalk native
> technologies and ideas could help to bring this unpaired live coding
> experience to a lot of people: hacktivist, journalist, philosophers,
> musicians, and non-live coding programmers. My uses of this approach are
> trying to bridge Pharo with non-programmers cultures at our local
> hackerspace, and is giving very good outcomes.
>
>
>> Live coding is pretty much the bread and butter for us graphics
>> programmers (I use Pharo together with Unreal and Blender) because it
>> allows us to test things on the fly without having to worry about compile
>> times or syntax errors or crashes or whatever can interrupt us from "being
>> in the zone". Pharo is without exaggeration the best live coding language
>> out there by very far from others except Lisp which is the basis of
>> Smalltalk and where we have borrowed many ideas.
>>
>>
> I would add that live coding is the bread and butter of pretty much
> everyone who is making exploratory computing and prototyping in diverse
> fields, where you use computers to understand fuzzy problems.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Offray
>
>


-- 
Mariano
http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

Re: [Pharo-users] webcam images for image processing

[Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas]

Hi,


On 30/12/16 03:47, Dimitris Chloupis wrote:



What I have found is that pharo is excellent as a central nervous 
system , Brain + nerves , for an application. Because not only the 
language is simple, but mostly because of live coding and ability of 
the IDE to deal with complex code and isolate bugs.


I think that the Pharo approach could be something like the Cyborgs one 
of Star Trek. Attach to a preexisting substrate and extend it :-P. 
Seriously, having Pharo to talk better with the external 
non-Pharo/Smalltalk native technologies and ideas could help to bring 
this unpaired live coding experience to a lot of people: hacktivist, 
journalist, philosophers, musicians, and non-live coding programmers. My 
uses of this approach are trying to bridge Pharo with non-programmers 
cultures at our local hackerspace, and is giving very good outcomes.




Live coding is pretty much the bread and butter for us graphics 
programmers (I use Pharo together with Unreal and Blender) because it 
allows us to test things on the fly without having to worry about 
compile times or syntax errors or crashes or whatever can interrupt us 
from "being in the zone". Pharo is without exaggeration the best live 
coding language out there by very far from others except Lisp which is 
the basis of Smalltalk and where we have borrowed many ideas.




I would add that live coding is the bread and butter of pretty much 
everyone who is making exploratory computing and prototyping in diverse 
fields, where you use computers to understand fuzzy problems.


Cheers,

Offray

Re: [Pharo-users] How to view hierarchy of multiple classes in a package?

[Tim Mackinnon]

Ah, cool I will give that a go. As always it's very little code when you know 
how.

I'll report back - but I wonder if this might be something that could be in the 
default image?

Tim

Sent from my iPhone

> On 30 Dec 2016, at 11:49, Henrik Nergaard  wrote:
> 
> Changing ClassWidget>>#showHierarchy to:
> showHierarchy: aBoolean
>  
>   | all |
>  
>   (showHierarchy := aBoolean) ifFalse:  [ ^ self ].
>  
>   all := IdentitySet new.
>   model selectedPackageGroup asNautilusSelection classes do: [ 
> :cls  |
>  all
>addAll: cls allSuperclasses;
>addAll: cls withAllSubclasses
>   ].
>
>   self cachedHierarchy: (SortHierarchically 
> buildHierarchyForClasses: all)
>  
> Will make the hierarchy button show the tree for all classes in that 
> package/tag.
> 
>  
> Best regards,
> Henrik
>  
> From: Pharo-users [mailto:pharo-users-boun...@lists.pharo.org] On Behalf Of 
> Tim Mackinnon
> Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2016 5:24 PM
> To: Any question about pharo is welcome 
> Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] How to view hierarchy of multiple classes in a 
> package?
>  
> This seems to have generated a bit of conversation which has helped me quite 
> a bit.
>  
> Denis, your picture has made me realise that the System browser is a bit 
> better than I realised.
>  
> However the example I was looking at was a package that had a series of 
> Announcement subclasses, AND what wasn't obvious was that they were all 
> subclasses of the same parent "Announcement", as that isn't shown - you just 
> get a series of classes not rooted under some parent (even if it was object). 
> I'm guessing that just things that are subclasses of each other in the same 
> package are shown?
>  
> I was hoping that pane might show -
>  
> Announcement
> + A
> + B
>+ C
>  
> I'm now wondering what it will show if you had a few different subclasses of 
> the different collection classes (ok it's a bad idea to subclass them, but my 
> point is if you had a few models at different points in a hierarchy)?
>  
> I'm guessing you would see the same flat list - but I will go and try that to 
> help me learn a bit more.
>  
> Tim

Re: [Pharo-users] webcam images for image processing

[Dimitris Chloupis]

Pharo is used for robots you can find more info here

http://car.mines-douai.fr/category/pharos/

I am actually building now OpenCV on macos, the hard stuff is C. UFFI and
Pharo are a breeze but with C everything can go wrong and it will at some
point. Took me 30 minutes to find information on how to build on macos.

I complain about Pharo documentation but OpenCV is much worse , we have a
tiny community and still our documentation is tons better.

So I totally can feel you, documentation is a huge issue does not matter
what language you choose , its a struggle.

In popular language you can find a gazillion things about the basics and
popular stuff but as soon as you venture to specifics and more technical
things that are the ones that need documentation the most, then you meet
the hell of "no sorry no documentation about this, but you should be fine
reading the codes and (then non existent) comments".

But that is part of the fun of coding, overcoming these challenges and
enduring until the "Eureka" moment.

Unfortunately OpenCV fails to build for me on macos, I also see that it
takes advantage of CUDA which is great news for performance bad news for
building it because CUDA is huge and it can be quite tedious to build
because there are a ton of stuff to be aware of.

In any case the documentation I linked is what we use to learn about UFFI
this is how I learned to make a shared memory tool for manipulating C++
executable from Pharo.

It takes time and patience because in C the moment you do something bad
with the memory it crashes the executable (OS default behavior to protect
from misbehaving executables) , this means I crashes Pharo like a hundrend
time till I get pointers right (how C/C++ manipulates memory). The good
news is that unlike C , Pharo is prepared from such situations and will
never allow you to lose code but to be safe always use a version control
system and commit frequently because it will be a breeze to restore your
code after a crash to a pharo image this way.

We have specific tools for such situation , for example Epicea will open
after the crash and ask you if you want to restore code and is a great tool
but I find git more convenient for such situations.

So to summarize you need to build OpenCV for 32bits architecture and use
UFFI. 64bits may work too but you need specific Pharo VM and image. 32bit
should be more stable and should be enough because it will try to use the
GPU memory anyway which is faster than CPU memory.

I wish I could be more of a help but I do not want to spend a ton of time
on building a library that I won't use.

Re: [Pharo-users] webcam images for image processing

[dyfroedd]

This is awesome forum - thank you so much for replying and I love the way you
explained how Smalltalk can be used. I totally agree that the wheel should
not be re-invented and that I should learn to make these technologies talk
talk together.

I know that Smalltalk is an amazing tool and, unfortunately, one that is not
as well known as others such as Python or C++. The problem is that I cannot
find any tutorials showing how to glue these technologies together in the
way you said, but instead I have found some posts (few sentences) describing
the process abstractly and using comp sci terminology.

I'm building a bespoke robotic system for a client that will access serial
sensor data as well as the webcam for image processing. I see Smalltalk as a
potentially fantastic tool for this. My gut feeling tells me that I should
learn to develop my bespoke tech in Smalltalk, for various reasons, but
doing useful stuff like robotics or image processing requires some demos
that I can work with (for me personally, this is how I learn to build my own
things).

Appreciate the time you took to get back to me. 

Thanks







 



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Re: [Pharo-users] webcam images for image processing

[dyfroedd]

Thank you for getting back so quickly. I appreciate the pointers you gave
me; I'll check them out. I have edited my post to correct my spelling of
Smalltalk - sorry :)



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Re: [Pharo-users] webcam images for image processing

[dyfroedd]

Thank you for getting back so quickly. I appreciate the pointers you gave me;
I'll check them out. I have edited my post to correct my spelling of
Smalltalk - sorry :)



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Re: [Pharo-users] webcam images for image processing

[Dimitris Chloupis]

On Fri, Dec 30, 2016 at 10:47 AM Stephane Ducasse 
wrote:

> - First welcome and do not hesitate to ask any question.
>
> I know that we have a binding for openCV (dimitry I do not remember)
> demoes it at ESUG 2014 at Brescia (check the videos on youtube).
>
> - Second you should use uFFI to talk to the drivers. There is a tutorial
> in PharoInProgress (I have to run)
>
>
>
> Now this is somehow related... check this fun small project made to access
> public webcam
>
> Stef
>
> PS: it is Smalltalk :)
>
>
>
the documentation that Stef is referring to is here

https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/view/Books/job/PharoBookWorkInProgress/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/book-result/UnifiedFFI/UnifiedFFI.pdf

Re: [Pharo-users] webcam images for image processing

[Dimitris Chloupis]

Welcome to our Pharo island :)

*gives a flower necklace*

My central ideology about Pharo is that it is a waste of potential to
remake libraries that exist in other languages unless we want to bring
something new or something more specific.

Thus its a very good idea to use C/C++ libraries and libraries made for
other programming languages from inside Pharo. I for instance use Python
libraries from inside Pharo.

What I have found is that pharo is excellent as a central nervous system ,
Brain + nerves , for an application. Because not only the language is
simple, but mostly because of live coding and ability of the IDE to deal
with complex code and isolate bugs.

Live coding is pretty much the bread and butter for us graphics programmers
(I use Pharo together with Unreal and Blender) because it allows us to test
things on the fly without having to worry about compile times or syntax
errors or crashes or whatever can interrupt us from "being in the zone".
Pharo is without exaggeration the best live coding language out there by
very far from others except Lisp which is the basis of Smalltalk and where
we have borrowed many ideas.

So, my preference in this case would have been to use OpenCL from Pharo via
the UFFI. This way you have both the speed you need for heavy graphics
processing and all the cool stuff that Pharo has.

Whats the catch ?

Well you have to know C/C++ obviously and you have to know UFFI.

Once you understand UFFI you are practical unstopable and there will be
NOTHING you wont be able to do with Pharo.

I will upload a video tutorial for UFFI , I was looking for an interesting
example and I think the webcam case you presented via OpenCL is perfect. It
will be a long one, probably an hour or so , obviously because a lot have
to be presented and explained.

I cannot say exactly when I will upload it because lately life has been
hectic (family health issues -- nothing serious but several days in the
hospital) and I have no clue how OpenCL works (though I never shy from an
interesting challenge) but I hope to have the free time and motivation to
do it during this weekend.

On Fri, Dec 30, 2016 at 2:07 AM dyfroedd  wrote:

> Hi
>
> I'm fairly new to SmallTalk and so impressed with the programming style as
> it helps me visually understand how the classes are interrelated etc.
>
> I would love to use SmallTalk (Squeak or Pharo) for some image processing.
> I
> can create my own processing methods and kernels but have had problems
> accessing the images from a  webcam. I have stumbled at this most basic
> step.   Can anyone help me (I am new to SmallTalk) to access a webcam on a
> mac please?
>
> I have read various intros into SmallTalk (Squeak and Pharo) but doing
> something really useful like basic image processing is still a hurdle for
> me
> in SmallTalk.
>
> Alternatively I can use C++ (and OpenCV) to access and process images and
> use smalltalk to build a GUI but that would defeat the purpose of me trying
> to use SmallTalk to begin with.
>
> I appreciate your help.
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://forum.world.st/webcam-images-for-image-processing-tp4928374.html
> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>

Re: [Pharo-users] Mutter system news

[Stephane Ducasse]

tx !

On Fri, Dec 30, 2016 at 3:06 AM, Sean P. DeNigris 
wrote:

> Stephane Ducasse-3 wrote
> > I suggest that we remove from the list this bot.
>
> Banned from the Nabble mirror and all posts deleted.
>
>
>
> -
> Cheers,
> Sean
> --
> View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Mutter-
> system-news-tp4928293p4928383.html
> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>