Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Programming Competition

[horrido]

I appreciate what you're saying, and certainly the things you want to see
funded are worthwhile. However, the goals for my programming competition are
quite different, for example:

#1 – raise the public profile of Smalltalk across a broad swath of the
population in Canada and other countries. Word of mouth about the
competition will spread beyond Canada, esp. after the winners of the
competition gain some local media coverage.

#2 – generate excitement and interest in kids, esp. at the high school
level. There's nothing better than a sports-like competition to achieve
this.

#3 – by generating interest in kids, we seed the next generation of
programmers with knowledge and experience in Smalltalk. This is not unlike
the way interest in Linux grew from students in colleges and universities
throughout recent decades.

#4 – convince educators to include Smalltalk in their curriculums. I don't
know what programming languages are being taught in high schools, but I know
it's not Smalltalk. I tried reaching out to local school boards, but they
showed no interest.

In colleges and universities, the most commonly taught languages are Python
and Java. At least, that's the case in North America, I don't know about
Europe. I hope to open their eyes to Smalltalk.

This is a decidedly marketing-based approach, something that I don't believe
any other programming language has tried. It's a worthwhile experiment, and
that's why I hope Smalltalkers everywhere will stand behind it.


Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas-2 wrote
> H :-),
> 
> 
> On 16/06/18 18:12, horrido wrote:
>> FYI, I am trying to jumpstart a Smalltalk programming competition.  Read
>> all
>> about it here.
>> https://medium.com/@richardeng/smalltalk-programming-competition-2be77cab0e75;
>>   
>>
>> My plan is to use Pharo for this competition, even if it makes companies
>> like Cincom and Instantiations unhappy.
>>
>> Any support this competition can receive would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> I just tweeted about it.
> 
> I'm not into a competition spirit, so I would like to think in other
> possibilities to fund Pharo, even in the main goal is not reached (USD $
> 30k). For example, I remember Mozilla thinking in Mozilla Spaces (kind
> of hacker/maker spaces for Open Web learning by doing in a community
> mindset). Our local hackerspaces cost something like USD $6.5K a year
> and it has been a good Pharo Space for almost three years of continuous
> activities and several outputs and prototypes as detailed at [1]. I'm
> not telling that you should invest in us particularly, but that even
> from and alternative perspective that is not related with funding
> individuals but communities, the same money that allows only 3
> scholarships of individuals after competing each other, would make 4 or
> 5 communities sustainable in the Global South for a year, related with
> Pharo and other activities and here we have the advantage of not having
> a lot of technical debt with popular languages well spread in all
> population, like happens in the Global North.
> 
> [1]
> http://mutabit.com/repos.fossil/grafoscopio/doc/tip/Docs/En/success-story.md
> 
> Maybe these ideas could help in some way when combined with yours and
> allow you a model for flexible funding, like the one of Indie GoGo, so
> instead of a all or nothing funding for the competence, you could have a
> modular approach that allow you to fund several Pharospaces across the
> world, for each USD 6.5k you get, starting with those located in the
> Global South (which can be more potent, more agile and cheaper).
> 
> Just my two pesos.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Offray





--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Programming Competition

[Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas]

H :-),


On 16/06/18 18:12, horrido wrote:
> FYI, I am trying to jumpstart a Smalltalk programming competition.  Read all
> about it here.
> 
>   
>
> My plan is to use Pharo for this competition, even if it makes companies
> like Cincom and Instantiations unhappy.
>
> Any support this competition can receive would be greatly appreciated.

I just tweeted about it.

I'm not into a competition spirit, so I would like to think in other
possibilities to fund Pharo, even in the main goal is not reached (USD $
30k). For example, I remember Mozilla thinking in Mozilla Spaces (kind
of hacker/maker spaces for Open Web learning by doing in a community
mindset). Our local hackerspaces cost something like USD $6.5K a year
and it has been a good Pharo Space for almost three years of continuous
activities and several outputs and prototypes as detailed at [1]. I'm
not telling that you should invest in us particularly, but that even
from and alternative perspective that is not related with funding
individuals but communities, the same money that allows only 3
scholarships of individuals after competing each other, would make 4 or
5 communities sustainable in the Global South for a year, related with
Pharo and other activities and here we have the advantage of not having
a lot of technical debt with popular languages well spread in all
population, like happens in the Global North.

[1]
http://mutabit.com/repos.fossil/grafoscopio/doc/tip/Docs/En/success-story.md

Maybe these ideas could help in some way when combined with yours and
allow you a model for flexible funding, like the one of Indie GoGo, so
instead of a all or nothing funding for the competence, you could have a
modular approach that allow you to fund several Pharospaces across the
world, for each USD 6.5k you get, starting with those located in the
Global South (which can be more potent, more agile and cheaper).

Just my two pesos.

Cheers,

Offray

Re: [Pharo-users] Lost in stream

[monty]

They still use (binary) StandardFileStreams on Pharo and Squeak. But since it's 
done through dynamically chosen file stream factory classes 
(XMLFileReadStreamFactory and XMLFileWriteStreamFactory), it's easy add support 
for other stream classes. (The GemStone compat .mcz adds factories for GsFile 
read/write factories, for example).

#preferredImplementation selects which implementation to use in the hierarchy 
when there's more than one supported (#isSupportedImplementation).
___
montyos.wordpress.com


> Sent: Monday, June 18, 2018 at 1:34 AM
> From: "Sven Van Caekenberghe" 
> To: "Any question about pharo is welcome" 
> Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Lost in stream
>
> 
> 
> > On 18 Jun 2018, at 02:18, monty  wrote:
> > 
> > Also consider using XMLParser's built-in file reading support: 
> > #parseFileNamed:/#onFileNamed:. They work cross platform (Squeak, GS), and 
> > handle character decoding.
> 
> Monty, do these (already) work with all the latest changes in Pharo 7, I mean 
> the deprecation of FileStream and subclasses as well as 
> [RW|MultiByte]BinaryOrTextStream for FileReference, File and Zn streams ?
> 
> If not, we should help you.
> 
> Sven
> 

Re: [Pharo-users] How to fix the Pharo launcher Windows installation! (WAS: Windows installation broken?)

[Vincent.Blondeau]

From: Pharo-users [mailto:pharo-users-boun...@lists.pharo.org] On Behalf Of 
Sean Glazier
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2018 12:36
To: Any question about pharo is welcome 
Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] How to fix the Pharo launcher Windows installation! 
(WAS: Windows installation broken?)

Do you need more smalltalkers on your team who have real-time control 
experience?

Hi Sean,

I have no information about that. One thing you can do is to contact Chris 
Thorgrimsson (https://www.linkedin.com/in/chris-thorgrimsson-33734325/). He 
will be more knowledgeable to help you. I am working in his team.

I would love to contribute. I agree more windows support is needed

What you can do is pick any issue here: 
https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-launcher/issues
And here is the project to package the applications that I plan to use on the 
launcher: https://github.com/VincentBlondeau/Cruiser
Feel free to submit PRs or new issues!

Thanks!

Vincent Blondeau

My linked in profile is at 
https://www.linkedin.com/in/seanglazier
Sean Glazier

On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 3:29 PM 
mailto:vincent.blond...@lamresearch.com>> 
wrote:

Hi all,



Indeed, the Windows environment is not the one where Pharo is working the best. 
Last week, I tried to install it on one of my coworker desktop and there was 
some issues that was solvable with some workarounds, it is temporary and the 
windows support will be improved soon: I’m currently working on it, especially 
on making the Pharo launcher in a read only mode. This way, no administrative 
privileges will be required to run the launcher.



In the meantime, to make the launcher working under Windows:


1.  Run with administrative privileges
2.  Uncheck: [cid:image001.png@01D406FB.17336870]



If you are in a mood to help and contribute to this project (I hope you are!), 
please report the issues there: 
https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-launcher/issues
 and feel free to suggest some fixes to them :)



And please, keep this thread related to Pharo…



Thanks,

Vincent Blondeau
Software Engineer, Software and Controls | Global Product Group
Desk +1 510.572.7499

Lam Research Corporation
4650 Cushing Pkwy, Fremont, CA 94538 
USA
 | www.lamresearch.com
Connect with Lam Research: 
Facebook
 | 
Twitter
 | 
LinkedIn


NOTICE: This e-mail transmission may contain confidential information. If you 
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the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, 
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-Original Message-
From: Pharo-users 
[mailto:pharo-users-boun...@lists.pharo.org]
 On Behalf Of horrido
Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2018 15:04
To: pharo-users@lists.pharo.org
Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Windows installation broken?



This is what concerns me. I don't care that there are 

Re: [Pharo-users] How to fix the Pharo launcher Windows installation! (WAS: Windows installation broken?)

[Vincent.Blondeau]

From: Pharo-users [mailto:pharo-users-boun...@lists.pharo.org] On Behalf Of 
PBKResearch
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2018 13:15
To: 'Any question about pharo is welcome' 
Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] How to fix the Pharo launcher Windows installation! 
(WAS: Windows installation broken?)

Vincent

Many thanks - at last a clear explanation of how to get it going. I tried this 
with the Launcher I downloaded yesterday, and was able to launch the template 
versions of Pharo 6.1 and Pharo 7. The only problem was that I am not familiar 
with the Launcher interface, and I had to search around to open the settings 
menu - but that was my stupidity. Plus I *hate* the dark theme - but that's 
just my weird taste.

Thanks Peter!

Maybe, we could add a settings in the pharo launcher options to change the 
theme. I invite you to open a bug for this ;)

So going back to the original post in this thread, with this tweak the Launcher 
is not broken as regards actually launching images. I have not checked whether 
it is possible to uninstall it, as I found it was not possible yesterday and 
Petr Fischer also had difficulty with. At present I do not *want* to uninstall 
it, so that's OK.

AFAIK, the uninstall does not delete all the files. I have not tested it yet, 
but it will be the next step!

All my tests on Windows 10 with all recent updates, on a 64-bit Intel Core i3 
processor.

Hope this helps

Thanks,
Vincent Blondeau

Peter Kenny

From: Pharo-users 
mailto:pharo-users-boun...@lists.pharo.org>>
 On Behalf Of 
vincent.blond...@lamresearch.com
Sent: 18 June 2018 20:28
To: pharo-users@lists.pharo.org
Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] How to fix the Pharo launcher Windows installation! 
(WAS: Windows installation broken?)


Hi all,



Indeed, the Windows environment is not the one where Pharo is working the best. 
Last week, I tried to install it on one of my coworker desktop and there was 
some issues that was solvable with some workarounds, it is temporary and the 
windows support will be improved soon: I'm currently working on it, especially 
on making the Pharo launcher in a read only mode. This way, no administrative 
privileges will be required to run the launcher.



In the meantime, to make the launcher working under Windows:


1.   Run with administrative privileges
2.   Uncheck: [cid:image001.png@01D406FB.17336870]



If you are in a mood to help and contribute to this project (I hope you are!), 
please report the issues there: 
https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-launcher/issues
 and feel free to suggest some fixes to them :)



And please, keep this thread related to Pharo...



Thanks,

Vincent Blondeau
Software Engineer, Software and Controls | Global Product Group
Desk +1 510.572.7499

Lam Research Corporation
4650 Cushing Pkwy, Fremont, CA 94538 USA | www.lamresearch.com
Connect with Lam Research: 
Facebook
 | 
Twitter
 | 
LinkedIn


NOTICE: This e-mail transmission may contain confidential information. If you 
are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to 
the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, 
distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached to this 
message is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission in 
error, please immediately notify the sender and destroy the original 
transmission and its attachments without reading them or saving them to disk. 
Thank you.






-Original Message-
From: Pharo-users [mailto:pharo-users-boun...@lists.pharo.org] On Behalf Of 
horrido
Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2018 15:04
To: pharo-users@lists.pharo.org
Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Windows installation broken?



This is what concerns me. I don't care that there are 

Re: [Pharo-users] How to fix the Pharo launcher Windows installation! (WAS: Windows installation broken?)

[PBKResearch]

Vincent

 

Many thanks - at last a clear explanation of how to get it going. I tried
this with the Launcher I downloaded yesterday, and was able to launch the
template versions of Pharo 6.1 and Pharo 7. The only problem was that I am
not familiar with the Launcher interface, and I had to search around to open
the settings menu - but that was my stupidity. Plus I *hate* the dark theme
- but that's just my weird taste.

 

So going back to the original post in this thread, with this tweak the
Launcher is not broken as regards actually launching images. I have not
checked whether it is possible to uninstall it, as I found it was not
possible yesterday and Petr Fischer also had difficulty with. At present I
do not *want* to uninstall it, so that's OK.

 

All my tests on Windows 10 with all recent updates, on a 64-bit Intel Core
i3 processor.

 

Hope this helps

 

Peter Kenny

 

From: Pharo-users  On Behalf Of
vincent.blond...@lamresearch.com
Sent: 18 June 2018 20:28
To: pharo-users@lists.pharo.org
Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] How to fix the Pharo launcher Windows
installation! (WAS: Windows installation broken?)

 

Hi all,

 

Indeed, the Windows environment is not the one where Pharo is working the
best. Last week, I tried to install it on one of my coworker desktop and
there was some issues that was solvable with some workarounds, it is
temporary and the windows support will be improved soon: I'm currently
working on it, especially on making the Pharo launcher in a read only mode.
This way, no administrative privileges will be required to run the launcher.

 

In the meantime, to make the launcher working under Windows:

 

1.  Run with administrative privileges
2.  Uncheck: 

 

If you are in a mood to help and contribute to this project (I hope you
are!), please report the issues there:

https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-launcher/issues and feel free to
suggest some fixes to them :)

 

And please, keep this thread related to Pharo.

 

Thanks,

 

Vincent Blondeau 
Software Engineer, Software and Controls | Global Product Group 
Desk +1 510.572.7499


Lam Research Corporation
4650 Cushing Pkwy, Fremont, CA 94538 USA | www.lamresearch.com
Connect with Lam Research:
 Facebook |
 Twitter |
 LinkedIn

  _  

 

NOTICE: This e-mail transmission may contain confidential information. If
you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering
it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure,
copying, distribution or use of any of the information contained in or
attached to this message is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this
transmission in error, please immediately notify the sender and destroy the
original transmission and its attachments without reading them or saving
them to disk. Thank you.

 

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Pharo-users [ 
mailto:pharo-users-boun...@lists.pharo.org] On Behalf Of horrido
Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2018 15:04
To:   pharo-users@lists.pharo.org
Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Windows installation broken?

 

This is what concerns me. I don't care that there are workarounds
(undocumented or hard to find).

 

I care that Windows is a most popular development platform. I care that
newcomers to Pharo easily find what they need to get started. I care about
Pharo's reputation.

 

The last thing Pharo needs is a black eye.

 

 

Travis Ayres wrote

> I wonder how many people tried Pharo, thought "Oh this is totally broken"

> and are never going to give it a second (or third) chance.

> 

> On Sun, Jun 17, 2018 at 11:26 AM,

 

> phil@

 

>  

 

> phil@

 

> 

> wrote:

> 

>> The current website shows the wrong link, the installer for the 

>> bleeding edge is the wrong one in files.

>> The situation on the Windows front is very very bad and not really 

>> improving.

>> 

>> That being said, the installer on the CI is the right one and works.

>> 

>> so, steal the installer from here: 

>>  
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__ci.inria.fr_phar

>> o-2Dci-2D=DwICAg=RWI7EqL8K9lqtga8KxgfzvOYoob76EZWE0yAO85PVMQ=kI

>> ZIYXBAA3fhM7P5HOuTC5w6mnEApTfXPTq3lR34ZiY=klRHeEtFlmi7VP-TR5D2bSZ_E

>> UF1hAdJcuTH4GnReBY=xfU91HKFoB5JIZXWRUqBvOkomomuAqWw_gQvBmGRwiw=

>> jenkins2/job/PharoLauncher

>> 

>> This is the one you want:

>> 

>>  
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__ci.inria.fr_phar

>> o-2Dci-2Djenkins2_job_PharoLauncher_=DwICAg=RWI7EqL8K9lqtga8Kxgfz

>> vOYoob76EZWE0yAO85PVMQ=kIZIYXBAA3fhM7P5HOuTC5w6mnEApTfXPTq3lR34ZiY&

>> 

[Pharo-users] Nice Pharo teaser in English?

[Andrei Stebakov]

I remember there used to be a nice Pharo teaser video at the top of
pharo.org which had some catchy images for data visualization etc.
Now all I can see is this link https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3qedvo
and it's in French.
Could someone point me to the old teaser I am referring to?

Thanks!
Andrei

Re: [Pharo-users] Windows installation broken?

[Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas]

Nothing, that's precisely my point! So we don't need to talk about balls
size, with the implicit gender assumptions about courage and the "Macho
Programmer" way of argumentation, that is toxic in *other* communities
for minorities (non white, non cisgender, non male) which usually
repeals them for participation.

So, yes, lets focus on a better installing Pharo experience on Windows.

Cheers,

Offray


On 18/06/18 13:39, Travis Ayres wrote:
> What does not talking like an asshole have to do with being white and
> male?
>
> ...seriously?
>
> On Mon, Jun 18, 2018, 11:31 AM Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas
> mailto:offray.l...@mutabit.com>> wrote:
>
>
>
> On 18/06/18 09:47, Herbert Vojčík wrote:
 Do you have enough balls to call out Steph for his obviously
 wrong decision to push Launcher down the users' throats and
 make him revert to working installers / zips? Cause AFAICT
 there's the bottleneck atm.
>>>
>>> First, it was MY decision.
>>
>> My apologies to blaming Steph.
>>
>>> I’m pushing launcher as the default download for Pharo since
>>> year now.
>>> Do I am happy with it not working on windows right now? Of
>>> course not. But pushing it also in windows has already forced us
>>> to fix some bugs there and a new version of the launcher (and a
>>> better Pharo on windows) and at the result will be good.
>>> I was going to suspend the launcher as the default download
>>> until a better version arrived, but I’ve been told that will
>>> happen this week, so I will wait.
>>>
>>> Second, we have a lot of bottlenecks, but is true this is
>>> important.
>>>
>>> Third, please restrain your self to talk like that in the
>>> future. Is rude and unnecessary.
>>
>> I won't. Sometimes it seems this kind of talk is needed. Windows
>> launcher was not working for so long but it is still pushed as
>> the default download option, because "higher goals" I presume. If
>> this kind of talk helps to get rid of it until working (or make
>> it finally actually work), it is anything but unnecessary.
>
> I don't see how this "Macho Programmer Culture" mixing genitalia
> size with community behavior and admin choices is necessary. But I
> see why, for sure, non-(white)-males feel so unwelcome in
> developers communities when some members feels such "necessity" of
> addressing others with such language and when pointed to that,
> just reinforce their choices.
>
> Best,
>
> Offray
>

Re: [Pharo-users] Windows installation broken?

[Esteban Lorenzano]

yes, we have bad support for windows. Period.
we try to improve in that, but is hard and takes time… there are lots of small 
details that needs to be taken care in all fronts (from VM to UI, traversing 
all layers)… but we will get there, one step at a time. And with the help of 
those in the community with more proximity to the real problem.

Esteban

> On 18 Jun 2018, at 20:13, p...@highoctane.be wrote:
> 
> I  am developing on Windows  and using the launcher.
> 
> Also on Linux and macOS.
> 
> In a corp environment, Windows rules.
> 
> So make it work there if you want any traction.
> 
> The laucher now works nicely on Windows.
> 
> But the files are not the right ones on the download page.
> 
> So fixing that will go a long way.
> 
> I have been back on using more mainstream tech and well, stuff works as 
> advertised.
> 
> We are lagging behind on a couple fronts that's what I see.
> 
> 
> Phil
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, Jun 18, 2018, 20:04 Norbert Hartl  > wrote:
> 
> 
>> Am 18.06.2018 um 19:19 schrieb horrido > >:
>> 
>> Developers are users, and many users are developers.
>> 
> Ah, I’m not sure what value this sentence adds. The point is that the market 
> share you were referring to is users that are not developers.
> 
>> What kind of developers are you counting? Microsoft/Windows/.NET developers
>> represent a huge number, especially in the enterprise market. If these
>> developers are going to explore alternative tools like Java, Ruby, Pharo,
>> Common Lisp, etc., they'll be doing it in Windows.
>> 
>> Developers under macOS are mostly focussed on macOS, iOS, Objective-C, and
>> Swift. They are no more predisposed to looking at Pharo than developers
>> under Windows. Is this not perfectly logical?
>> 
> Ok, let’s try to other way round. If there are many developers in windows why 
> is the pharo stuff for windows so badly supported? It does indeed mean that 
> either there aren’t many or they lack the expertise (or are too lazy) to 
> improve stuff in pharo. And don’t tell me you count the windows developers 
> that are driven away from a user program like PharoLauncher that is not 
> working properly.
> 
> Norbert
>> 
>> NorbertHartl wrote
 Am 18.06.2018 um 16:16 schrieb horrido 
>> 
>>> horrido.hobbies@
>> 
>>> :
 
 Lack of enough Windows users? What platform are most Pharoers using?
 
 I'm using macOS, but this platform has only about 12% market share. Linux
 has about 2%.
 
>>> Your mixing users and developers. I don’t have numbers but I’m pretty sure
>>> if you count developers windows does not have that big of a market share.
>>> For squeak/pharo especially I guess Mac was always the preferred platform. 
>>> 
>>> Norbert 
 
 Sven Van Caekenberghe-2 wrote
>> On 18 Jun 2018, at 15:39, Herbert Vojčík 
 
> herby@
 
>  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> horrido wrote on 18. 6. 2018 0:04:
>>> This is what concerns me. I don't care that there are workarounds
>>> (undocumented or hard to find).
>>> I care that Windows is a most popular development platform. I care
>>> that
>>> newcomers to Pharo easily find what they need to get started. I care
>>> about
>>> Pharo's reputation.
>>> The last thing Pharo needs is a black eye.
>> 
>> Do you have enough balls to call out Steph for his obviously wrong
>> decision to push Launcher down the users' throats and make him revert
>> to
>> working installers / zips? Cause AFAICT there's the bottleneck atm.
> 
> The problem is the lack of enough Windows users and especially
> developers
> who can fix Windows problems.
 
 
 
 
 
 --
 Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html 
 
 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html 
>> 

Re: [Pharo-users] How to fix the Pharo launcher Windows installation! (WAS: Windows installation broken?)

[Vincent.Blondeau]

Hi all,



Indeed, the Windows environment is not the one where Pharo is working the best. 
Last week, I tried to install it on one of my coworker desktop and there was 
some issues that was solvable with some workarounds, it is temporary and the 
windows support will be improved soon: I'm currently working on it, especially 
on making the Pharo launcher in a read only mode. This way, no administrative 
privileges will be required to run the launcher.



In the meantime, to make the launcher working under Windows:



  1.  Run with administrative privileges
  2.  Uncheck: [cid:image001.png@01D406FB.17336870]



If you are in a mood to help and contribute to this project (I hope you are!), 
please report the issues there: 
https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-launcher/issues and feel free to suggest 
some fixes to them :)



And please, keep this thread related to Pharo...



Thanks,

Vincent Blondeau
Software Engineer, Software and Controls | Global Product Group
Desk +1 510.572.7499

Lam Research Corporation
4650 Cushing Pkwy, Fremont, CA 94538 USA | www.lamresearch.com
Connect with Lam Research: 
Facebook | 
Twitter | 
LinkedIn



NOTICE: This e-mail transmission may contain confidential information. If you 
are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to 
the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, 
distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached to this 
message is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission in 
error, please immediately notify the sender and destroy the original 
transmission and its attachments without reading them or saving them to disk. 
Thank you.






-Original Message-
From: Pharo-users [mailto:pharo-users-boun...@lists.pharo.org] On Behalf Of 
horrido
Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2018 15:04
To: pharo-users@lists.pharo.org
Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Windows installation broken?



This is what concerns me. I don't care that there are workarounds (undocumented 
or hard to find).



I care that Windows is a most popular development platform. I care that 
newcomers to Pharo easily find what they need to get started. I care about 
Pharo's reputation.



The last thing Pharo needs is a black eye.





Travis Ayres wrote

> I wonder how many people tried Pharo, thought "Oh this is totally broken"

> and are never going to give it a second (or third) chance.

>

> On Sun, Jun 17, 2018 at 11:26 AM,



> phil@



>  



> phil@



> 

> wrote:

>

>> The current website shows the wrong link, the installer for the

>> bleeding edge is the wrong one in files.

>> The situation on the Windows front is very very bad and not really

>> improving.

>>

>> That being said, the installer on the CI is the right one and works.

>>

>> so, steal the installer from here:

>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__ci.inria.fr_phar

>> o-2Dci-2D=DwICAg=RWI7EqL8K9lqtga8KxgfzvOYoob76EZWE0yAO85PVMQ=kI

>> ZIYXBAA3fhM7P5HOuTC5w6mnEApTfXPTq3lR34ZiY=klRHeEtFlmi7VP-TR5D2bSZ_E

>> UF1hAdJcuTH4GnReBY=xfU91HKFoB5JIZXWRUqBvOkomomuAqWw_gQvBmGRwiw=

>> jenkins2/job/PharoLauncher

>>

>> This is the one you want:

>>

>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__ci.inria.fr_phar

>> o-2Dci-2Djenkins2_job_PharoLauncher_=DwICAg=RWI7EqL8K9lqtga8Kxgfz

>> vOYoob76EZWE0yAO85PVMQ=kIZIYXBAA3fhM7P5HOuTC5w6mnEApTfXPTq3lR34ZiY&

>> m=klRHeEtFlmi7VP-TR5D2bSZ_EUF1hAdJcuTH4GnReBY=TsRgHOYVLDp0q9g8BzEb8

>> s8yLy_v32DEMOxtvIcvTOg=

>>

>> For having the latest lastet everything, go to the launcher settings,

>> get into the devmode and open monticello and load the latest packages.

>>

>> Phil

Re: [Pharo-users] [Pharo-dev] [Ann] Iceberg v1.1.1

[Torsten Bergmann]

Great - thank you! Might be a small patch release - but nonetheless important.


BTW: the links in your mail are pointing to PR's of Pharo and not Iceberg. If you used
         a template you might want to consider changing it.
 

 

Gesendet: Montag, 18. Juni 2018 um 17:47 Uhr
Von: "Guillermo Polito" 
An: "Any question about pharo is welcome" , "Discusses Development of Pharo" 
Betreff: [Pharo-dev] [Ann] Iceberg v1.1.1


Hi everybody,
 

This week we have a small patch release of Iceberg, version v1.1.1.

This version will be available in the next Pharo build.

 

In summary, this release fixes two issues with the new credentials manager, and introduces a couple of other enhancements/bugfixes.

 

Below you will find the detailed changes log.

Enjoy,

Guille

 


Integrate Iceberg 1.1.1
https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/22168/Integrate-Iceberg-1-1-1

https://github.com/pharo-vcs/iceberg/releases/tag/v1.1.1

#864 Repairing Missing repositories lead to wrong source directory
#861 update tonel to v1.0.9
#836 DefaultBackendType class variable is unused
#862 Iceberg tests are not running in Pharo 7
#852 Make error dialogs copy-pastable
#858 IceTipReadOnlyTextMorph does not allow select and copy anymore
#850 Change Detached head status from error to warning if we are on a tag
#853 Clone dialog "username" is confusing
#860 CredentialStore API
#854 Error in History window


 
 
--






	
		
			
			   
			
			
			Guille Polito

			Research Engineer

			 

			Centre de Recherche en Informatique, Signal et Automatique de Lille

			CRIStAL - UMR 9189

			French National Center for Scientific Research - http://www.cnrs.fr

			 

			Web: http://guillep.github.io

			Phone: +33 06 52 70 66 13
			
		
	

Re: [Pharo-users] Windows installation broken?

[Travis Ayres]

What does not talking like an asshole have to do with being white and male?

...seriously?

On Mon, Jun 18, 2018, 11:31 AM Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas <
offray.l...@mutabit.com> wrote:

>
>
> On 18/06/18 09:47, Herbert Vojčík wrote:
>
> Do you have enough balls to call out Steph for his obviously wrong
> decision to push Launcher down the users' throats and make him revert to
> working installers / zips? Cause AFAICT there's the bottleneck atm.
>
>
> First, it was MY decision.
>
>
> My apologies to blaming Steph.
>
> I’m pushing launcher as the default download for Pharo since year now.
> Do I am happy with it not working on windows right now? Of course not. But
> pushing it also in windows has already forced us to fix some bugs there and
> a new version of the launcher (and a better Pharo on windows) and at the
> result will be good.
> I was going to suspend the launcher as the default download until a better
> version arrived, but I’ve been told that will happen this week, so I will
> wait.
>
> Second, we have a lot of bottlenecks, but is true this is important.
>
> Third, please restrain your self to talk like that in the future. Is rude
> and unnecessary.
>
>
> I won't. Sometimes it seems this kind of talk is needed. Windows launcher
> was not working for so long but it is still pushed as the default download
> option, because "higher goals" I presume. If this kind of talk helps to get
> rid of it until working (or make it finally actually work), it is anything
> but unnecessary.
>
>
> I don't see how this "Macho Programmer Culture" mixing genitalia size with
> community behavior and admin choices is necessary. But I see why, for sure,
> non-(white)-males feel so unwelcome in developers communities when some
> members feels such "necessity" of addressing others with such language and
> when pointed to that, just reinforce their choices.
>
> Best,
>
> Offray
>

Re: [Pharo-users] Windows installation broken?

[Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas]

On 18/06/18 09:47, Herbert Vojčík wrote:
>>> Do you have enough balls to call out Steph for his obviously wrong
>>> decision to push Launcher down the users' throats and make him
>>> revert to working installers / zips? Cause AFAICT there's the
>>> bottleneck atm.
>>
>> First, it was MY decision.
>
> My apologies to blaming Steph.
>
>> I’m pushing launcher as the default download for Pharo since year now.
>> Do I am happy with it not working on windows right now? Of course
>> not. But pushing it also in windows has already forced us to fix some
>> bugs there and a new version of the launcher (and a better Pharo on
>> windows) and at the result will be good.
>> I was going to suspend the launcher as the default download until a
>> better version arrived, but I’ve been told that will happen this
>> week, so I will wait.
>>
>> Second, we have a lot of bottlenecks, but is true this is important.
>>
>> Third, please restrain your self to talk like that in the future. Is
>> rude and unnecessary.
>
> I won't. Sometimes it seems this kind of talk is needed. Windows
> launcher was not working for so long but it is still pushed as the
> default download option, because "higher goals" I presume. If this
> kind of talk helps to get rid of it until working (or make it finally
> actually work), it is anything but unnecessary.

I don't see how this "Macho Programmer Culture" mixing genitalia size
with community behavior and admin choices is necessary. But I see why,
for sure, non-(white)-males feel so unwelcome in developers communities
when some members feels such "necessity" of addressing others with such
language and when pointed to that, just reinforce their choices.

Best,

Offray

Re: [Pharo-users] Windows installation broken?

[Travis Ayres]

"And don’t tell me you count the windows developers that are driven away
from a user program like PharoLauncher that is not working properly."

Why not?

On Mon, Jun 18, 2018, 11:05 AM Norbert Hartl  wrote:

>
>
> Am 18.06.2018 um 19:19 schrieb horrido :
>
> Developers are users, and many users are developers.
>
> Ah, I’m not sure what value this sentence adds. The point is that the
> market share you were referring to is users that are not developers.
>
> What kind of developers are you counting? Microsoft/Windows/.NET developers
> represent a huge number, especially in the enterprise market. If these
> developers are going to explore alternative tools like Java, Ruby, Pharo,
> Common Lisp, etc., they'll be doing it in Windows.
>
> Developers under macOS are mostly focussed on macOS, iOS, Objective-C, and
> Swift. They are no more predisposed to looking at Pharo than developers
> under Windows. Is this not perfectly logical?
>
> Ok, let’s try to other way round. If there are many developers in windows
> why is the pharo stuff for windows so badly supported? It does indeed mean
> that either there aren’t many or they lack the expertise (or are too lazy)
> to improve stuff in pharo. And don’t tell me you count the windows
> developers that are driven away from a user program like PharoLauncher that
> is not working properly.
>
> Norbert
>
>
> NorbertHartl wrote
>
> Am 18.06.2018 um 16:16 schrieb horrido 
>
>
> horrido.hobbies@
>
>
> :
>
>
> Lack of enough Windows users? What platform are most Pharoers using?
>
> I'm using macOS, but this platform has only about 12% market share. Linux
> has about 2%.
>
> Your mixing users and developers. I don’t have numbers but I’m pretty sure
> if you count developers windows does not have that big of a market share.
> For squeak/pharo especially I guess Mac was always the preferred platform.
>
>
> Norbert
>
>
> Sven Van Caekenberghe-2 wrote
>
> On 18 Jun 2018, at 15:39, Herbert Vojčík 
>
>
> herby@
>
>
>  wrote:
>
>
>
>
> horrido wrote on 18. 6. 2018 0:04:
>
> This is what concerns me. I don't care that there are workarounds
> (undocumented or hard to find).
> I care that Windows is a most popular development platform. I care
> that
> newcomers to Pharo easily find what they need to get started. I care
> about
> Pharo's reputation.
> The last thing Pharo needs is a black eye.
>
>
> Do you have enough balls to call out Steph for his obviously wrong
> decision to push Launcher down the users' throats and make him revert
> to
> working installers / zips? Cause AFAICT there's the bottleneck atm.
>
>
> The problem is the lack of enough Windows users and especially
> developers
> who can fix Windows problems.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
>
>
>

Re: [Pharo-users] Windows installation broken?

[p...@highoctane.be]

I  am developing on Windows  and using the launcher.

Also on Linux and macOS.

In a corp environment, Windows rules.

So make it work there if you want any traction.

The laucher now works nicely on Windows.

But the files are not the right ones on the download page.

So fixing that will go a long way.

I have been back on using more mainstream tech and well, stuff works as
advertised.

We are lagging behind on a couple fronts that's what I see.


Phil



On Mon, Jun 18, 2018, 20:04 Norbert Hartl  wrote:

>
>
> Am 18.06.2018 um 19:19 schrieb horrido :
>
> Developers are users, and many users are developers.
>
> Ah, I’m not sure what value this sentence adds. The point is that the
> market share you were referring to is users that are not developers.
>
> What kind of developers are you counting? Microsoft/Windows/.NET developers
> represent a huge number, especially in the enterprise market. If these
> developers are going to explore alternative tools like Java, Ruby, Pharo,
> Common Lisp, etc., they'll be doing it in Windows.
>
> Developers under macOS are mostly focussed on macOS, iOS, Objective-C, and
> Swift. They are no more predisposed to looking at Pharo than developers
> under Windows. Is this not perfectly logical?
>
> Ok, let’s try to other way round. If there are many developers in windows
> why is the pharo stuff for windows so badly supported? It does indeed mean
> that either there aren’t many or they lack the expertise (or are too lazy)
> to improve stuff in pharo. And don’t tell me you count the windows
> developers that are driven away from a user program like PharoLauncher that
> is not working properly.
>
> Norbert
>
>
> NorbertHartl wrote
>
> Am 18.06.2018 um 16:16 schrieb horrido 
>
>
> horrido.hobbies@
>
>
> :
>
>
> Lack of enough Windows users? What platform are most Pharoers using?
>
> I'm using macOS, but this platform has only about 12% market share. Linux
> has about 2%.
>
> Your mixing users and developers. I don’t have numbers but I’m pretty sure
> if you count developers windows does not have that big of a market share.
> For squeak/pharo especially I guess Mac was always the preferred platform.
>
>
> Norbert
>
>
> Sven Van Caekenberghe-2 wrote
>
> On 18 Jun 2018, at 15:39, Herbert Vojčík 
>
>
> herby@
>
>
>  wrote:
>
>
>
>
> horrido wrote on 18. 6. 2018 0:04:
>
> This is what concerns me. I don't care that there are workarounds
> (undocumented or hard to find).
> I care that Windows is a most popular development platform. I care
> that
> newcomers to Pharo easily find what they need to get started. I care
> about
> Pharo's reputation.
> The last thing Pharo needs is a black eye.
>
>
> Do you have enough balls to call out Steph for his obviously wrong
> decision to push Launcher down the users' throats and make him revert
> to
> working installers / zips? Cause AFAICT there's the bottleneck atm.
>
>
> The problem is the lack of enough Windows users and especially
> developers
> who can fix Windows problems.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
>
>
>

Re: [Pharo-users] Windows installation broken?

[Norbert Hartl]

> Am 18.06.2018 um 19:19 schrieb horrido :
> 
> Developers are users, and many users are developers.
> 
Ah, I’m not sure what value this sentence adds. The point is that the market 
share you were referring to is users that are not developers.

> What kind of developers are you counting? Microsoft/Windows/.NET developers
> represent a huge number, especially in the enterprise market. If these
> developers are going to explore alternative tools like Java, Ruby, Pharo,
> Common Lisp, etc., they'll be doing it in Windows.
> 
> Developers under macOS are mostly focussed on macOS, iOS, Objective-C, and
> Swift. They are no more predisposed to looking at Pharo than developers
> under Windows. Is this not perfectly logical?
> 
Ok, let’s try to other way round. If there are many developers in windows why 
is the pharo stuff for windows so badly supported? It does indeed mean that 
either there aren’t many or they lack the expertise (or are too lazy) to 
improve stuff in pharo. And don’t tell me you count the windows developers that 
are driven away from a user program like PharoLauncher that is not working 
properly.

Norbert
> 
> NorbertHartl wrote
>>> Am 18.06.2018 um 16:16 schrieb horrido 
> 
>> horrido.hobbies@
> 
>> :
>>> 
>>> Lack of enough Windows users? What platform are most Pharoers using?
>>> 
>>> I'm using macOS, but this platform has only about 12% market share. Linux
>>> has about 2%.
>>> 
>> Your mixing users and developers. I don’t have numbers but I’m pretty sure
>> if you count developers windows does not have that big of a market share.
>> For squeak/pharo especially I guess Mac was always the preferred platform. 
>> 
>> Norbert 
>>> 
>>> Sven Van Caekenberghe-2 wrote
> On 18 Jun 2018, at 15:39, Herbert Vojčík 
>>> 
 herby@
>>> 
  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> horrido wrote on 18. 6. 2018 0:04:
>> This is what concerns me. I don't care that there are workarounds
>> (undocumented or hard to find).
>> I care that Windows is a most popular development platform. I care
>> that
>> newcomers to Pharo easily find what they need to get started. I care
>> about
>> Pharo's reputation.
>> The last thing Pharo needs is a black eye.
> 
> Do you have enough balls to call out Steph for his obviously wrong
> decision to push Launcher down the users' throats and make him revert
> to
> working installers / zips? Cause AFAICT there's the bottleneck atm.
 
 The problem is the lack of enough Windows users and especially
 developers
 who can fix Windows problems.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
>>> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html 
> 

Re: [Pharo-users] Windows installation broken?

[Tudor Girba]

Hi Herbert,

I too invite you to reconsider your language. Please stick to arguments. This 
is a public forum and its communication hygiene depends on everyone’s behavior.

Now, tackling your point: in this specific case, even your argument is 
incorrect. Nobody is forcing you to do anything. Pharo 7 is a development 
version and this is expected to have glitches from time to time. While this is 
inconvenient, pushing new things is the only way to obtain the necessary 
feedback. If you prefer stability, you are welcome to work with 6.1.

Cheers,
Tudor



> On Jun 18, 2018, at 4:47 PM, Herbert Vojčík  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Esteban Lorenzano wrote on 18. 6. 2018 16:04:
>>> On 18 Jun 2018, at 15:39, Herbert Vojčík  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> horrido wrote on 18. 6. 2018 0:04:
 This is what concerns me. I don't care that there are workarounds
 (undocumented or hard to find).
 I care that Windows is a most popular development platform. I care that
 newcomers to Pharo easily find what they need to get started. I care about
 Pharo's reputation.
 The last thing Pharo needs is a black eye.
>>> 
>>> Do you have enough balls to call out Steph for his obviously wrong decision 
>>> to push Launcher down the users' throats and make him revert to working 
>>> installers / zips? Cause AFAICT there's the bottleneck atm.
>> First, it was MY decision.
> 
> My apologies to blaming Steph.
> 
>> I’m pushing launcher as the default download for Pharo since year now.
>> Do I am happy with it not working on windows right now? Of course not. But 
>> pushing it also in windows has already forced us to fix some bugs there and 
>> a new version of the launcher (and a better Pharo on windows) and at the 
>> result will be good.
>> I was going to suspend the launcher as the default download until a better 
>> version arrived, but I’ve been told that will happen this week, so I will 
>> wait.
>> Second, we have a lot of bottlenecks, but is true this is important.
>> Third, please restrain your self to talk like that in the future. Is rude 
>> and unnecessary.
> 
> I won't. Sometimes it seems this kind of talk is needed. Windows launcher was 
> not working for so long but it is still pushed as the default download 
> option, because "higher goals" I presume. If this kind of talk helps to get 
> rid of it until working (or make it finally actually work), it is anything 
> but unnecessary.
> 
> Herby
> 
>> Esteban
>>> 
>>> Herby
>>> 
 Travis Ayres wrote
> I wonder how many people tried Pharo, thought "Oh this is totally broken"
> and are never going to give it a second (or third) chance.
> 
> On Sun, Jun 17, 2018 at 11:26 AM,
> phil@
>  
> phil@
> 
> wrote:
> 
>> The current website shows the wrong link, the installer for the bleeding
>> edge is the wrong one in files.
>> The situation on the Windows front is very very bad and not really
>> improving.
>> 
>> That being said, the installer on the CI is the right one and works.
>> 
>> so, steal the installer from here: https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-ci-
>> jenkins2/job/PharoLauncher
>> 
>> This is the one you want:
>> 
>> https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-ci-jenkins2/job/PharoLauncher/
>> 
>> For having the latest lastet everything, go to the launcher settings, get
>> into the devmode and open monticello and load the latest packages.
>> 
>> Phil
 --
 Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

--
www.tudorgirba.com
www.feenk.com

"Beauty is where we see it."

Re: [Pharo-users] How to contribute to Pharo Launcher?

[Tim Mackinnon]

While I’m at it - improve the icon for Launch without Settings (it needed Alpha)

Name: PharoLauncher-Core-TimM.174
Author: TimM
Time: 18 June 2018, 6:11:54.416337 pm
UUID: d9433566-4f2b-0d00-85be-afca09965ccd
Ancestors: PharoLauncher-Core-TimM.173

Sorry - can’t help with the windows launch problems as I don’t have a windows 
machine any more.

> On 18 Jun 2018, at 17:35, Tim Mackinnon  wrote:
> 
> Ok - I’ve done a save for both packages - hopefully they are useful:
> 
> Name: PharoLauncher-Spec-TimM.70
> Author: TimM
> Time: 18 June 2018, 5:32:00.928101 pm
> UUID: 5e888bd7-4e2b-0d00-85bb-537409965ccd
> Ancestors: PharoLauncher-Spec-TimM.69
> 
> 
> Name: PharoLauncher-Core-TimM.172
> Author: TimM
> Time: 18 June 2018, 5:34:46.055084 pm
> UUID: 6a2b63e1-4e2b-0d00-85bc-0fed09965ccd
> Ancestors: PharoLauncher-Core-TimM.171
> 
> 
> 
>> On 18 Jun 2018, at 16:30, Cyril Ferlicot D.  wrote:
>> 
>> On 18/06/2018 17:27, Tim Mackinnon wrote:
>>> Hi Cyril - I have to confess that I don’t recall what the steps are to 
>>> safely commit in Monticello. I have smallish changes to 2 packages Core and 
>>> Spec, and I can see that smalltalkhub repo in the MC browser and can browse 
>>> my changes against it - but how do I commit both packages in there? I 
>>> vaguely recall something about slices - but wasn’t that a Pharo core thing?
>>> 
>>> I get the impression that I don’t just press save on each package against 
>>> sthub do I?
>>> 
>>> Sorry to be so dumb - I’ve just swapped out Monticello usage for Git usage 
>>> these days.  Just need a few hints to get back on track
>>> 
>> 
>> You need to save the two packages individually.
>> 
>> While git is project oriented, StHub is package oriented.
>> 
>> Slices are only for Pharo development. (One could adapt them to make
>> Monticello more project oriented but it is currently not the case).
>> 
>> So in conclusion, yes you need to press save on each package. :)
>> 
>>> Tim
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Cyril Ferlicot
>> https://ferlicot.fr
>> 
> 
> 

Re: [Pharo-users] Windows installation broken?

[horrido]

Developers are users, and many users are developers.

What kind of developers are you counting? Microsoft/Windows/.NET developers
represent a huge number, especially in the enterprise market. If these
developers are going to explore alternative tools like Java, Ruby, Pharo,
Common Lisp, etc., they'll be doing it in Windows.

Developers under macOS are mostly focussed on macOS, iOS, Objective-C, and
Swift. They are no more predisposed to looking at Pharo than developers
under Windows. Is this not perfectly logical?


NorbertHartl wrote
>> Am 18.06.2018 um 16:16 schrieb horrido 

> horrido.hobbies@

> :
>> 
>> Lack of enough Windows users? What platform are most Pharoers using?
>> 
>> I'm using macOS, but this platform has only about 12% market share. Linux
>> has about 2%.
>> 
> Your mixing users and developers. I don’t have numbers but I’m pretty sure
> if you count developers windows does not have that big of a market share.
> For squeak/pharo especially I guess Mac was always the preferred platform. 
> 
> Norbert 
>> 
>> Sven Van Caekenberghe-2 wrote
 On 18 Jun 2018, at 15:39, Herbert Vojčík 
>> 
>>> herby@
>> 
>>>  wrote:
 
 
 
 horrido wrote on 18. 6. 2018 0:04:
> This is what concerns me. I don't care that there are workarounds
> (undocumented or hard to find).
> I care that Windows is a most popular development platform. I care
> that
> newcomers to Pharo easily find what they need to get started. I care
> about
> Pharo's reputation.
> The last thing Pharo needs is a black eye.
 
 Do you have enough balls to call out Steph for his obviously wrong
 decision to push Launcher down the users' throats and make him revert
 to
 working installers / zips? Cause AFAICT there's the bottleneck atm.
>>> 
>>> The problem is the lack of enough Windows users and especially
>>> developers
>>> who can fix Windows problems.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
>>





--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Re: [Pharo-users] Windows installation broken?

[Norbert Hartl]

> Am 18.06.2018 um 16:16 schrieb horrido :
> 
> Lack of enough Windows users? What platform are most Pharoers using?
> 
> I'm using macOS, but this platform has only about 12% market share. Linux
> has about 2%.
> 
Your mixing users and developers. I don’t have numbers but I’m pretty sure if 
you count developers windows does not have that big of a market share. For 
squeak/pharo especially I guess Mac was always the preferred platform. 

Norbert 
> 
> Sven Van Caekenberghe-2 wrote
>>> On 18 Jun 2018, at 15:39, Herbert Vojčík 
> 
>> herby@
> 
>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> horrido wrote on 18. 6. 2018 0:04:
 This is what concerns me. I don't care that there are workarounds
 (undocumented or hard to find).
 I care that Windows is a most popular development platform. I care that
 newcomers to Pharo easily find what they need to get started. I care
 about
 Pharo's reputation.
 The last thing Pharo needs is a black eye.
>>> 
>>> Do you have enough balls to call out Steph for his obviously wrong
>>> decision to push Launcher down the users' throats and make him revert to
>>> working installers / zips? Cause AFAICT there's the bottleneck atm.
>> 
>> The problem is the lack of enough Windows users and especially developers
>> who can fix Windows problems.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
> 

Re: [Pharo-users] Windows installation broken?

[James Foster]

> On Jun 18, 2018, at 10:47 AM, Herbert Vojčík  wrote:
> 
> Esteban Lorenzano wrote on 18. 6. 2018 16:04:
>> please restrain your self to talk like that in the future. Is rude and 
>> unnecessary.
> 
> I won't. Sometimes it seems this kind of talk is needed. Windows launcher was 
> not working for so long but it is still pushed as the default download 
> option, because "higher goals" I presume. If this kind of talk helps to get 
> rid of it until working (or make it finally actually work), it is anything 
> but unnecessary.

“Sometimes" it seems necessary to be rude. If an insult is the only thing that 
works, "it is anything but unnecessary."

While one can make a case that arrogant, rude behavior is occasionally 
“necessary," you haven’t made it here. To do so you first need to show (1) not 
just that the problem existed but was reported a long time ago, (2) that other 
more gentle attempts to push the issue were unsuccessful, (3) that the benefit 
of the fix outweighs the cost of the damage you are doing to the community, and 
(4) that you are uniquely qualified to make that judgment. You have not 
satisfied any of those requirements. 

Is this the way you treat your family? Are you managing a software team using 
this approach? Or do you limit this sort of behavior to on-line communities?

James Foster

Re: [Pharo-users] How to contribute to Pharo Launcher?

[Tim Mackinnon]

Ok - I’ve done a save for both packages - hopefully they are useful:

Name: PharoLauncher-Spec-TimM.70
Author: TimM
Time: 18 June 2018, 5:32:00.928101 pm
UUID: 5e888bd7-4e2b-0d00-85bb-537409965ccd
Ancestors: PharoLauncher-Spec-TimM.69


Name: PharoLauncher-Core-TimM.172
Author: TimM
Time: 18 June 2018, 5:34:46.055084 pm
UUID: 6a2b63e1-4e2b-0d00-85bc-0fed09965ccd
Ancestors: PharoLauncher-Core-TimM.171



> On 18 Jun 2018, at 16:30, Cyril Ferlicot D.  wrote:
> 
> On 18/06/2018 17:27, Tim Mackinnon wrote:
>> Hi Cyril - I have to confess that I don’t recall what the steps are to 
>> safely commit in Monticello. I have smallish changes to 2 packages Core and 
>> Spec, and I can see that smalltalkhub repo in the MC browser and can browse 
>> my changes against it - but how do I commit both packages in there? I 
>> vaguely recall something about slices - but wasn’t that a Pharo core thing?
>> 
>> I get the impression that I don’t just press save on each package against 
>> sthub do I?
>> 
>> Sorry to be so dumb - I’ve just swapped out Monticello usage for Git usage 
>> these days.  Just need a few hints to get back on track
>> 
> 
> You need to save the two packages individually.
> 
> While git is project oriented, StHub is package oriented.
> 
> Slices are only for Pharo development. (One could adapt them to make
> Monticello more project oriented but it is currently not the case).
> 
> So in conclusion, yes you need to press save on each package. :)
> 
>> Tim
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Cyril Ferlicot
> https://ferlicot.fr
> 

Re: [Pharo-users] [Ann] Iceberg v1.1.1

[Norbert Hartl]

Thanks again for the new things. Just a little maneuver critique. The amount of 
changes you did should be iceberg 1.2.0 and 1.1.1. Versions are cheap ;) and 
everything which is not really a hot-fix should be a new minor version.

Norbert


> Am 18.06.2018 um 17:47 schrieb Guillermo Polito :
> 
> Hi everybody,
> 
> This week we have a small patch release of Iceberg, version v1.1.1.
> This version will be available in the next Pharo build.
> 
> In summary, this release fixes two issues with the new credentials manager, 
> and introduces a couple of other enhancements/bugfixes.
> 
> Below you will find the detailed changes log.
> Enjoy,
> Guille
> 
> Integrate Iceberg 1.1.1
> https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/22168/Integrate-Iceberg-1-1-1 
> 
> https://github.com/pharo-vcs/iceberg/releases/tag/v1.1.1 
> 
> #864  Repairing Missing 
> repositories lead to wrong source directory
> #861  update tonel to v1.0.9
> #836  DefaultBackendType 
> class variable is unused
> #862  Iceberg tests are not 
> running in Pharo 7
> #852  Make error dialogs 
> copy-pastable
> #858  
> IceTipReadOnlyTextMorph does not allow select and copy anymore
> #850  Change Detached head 
> status from error to warning if we are on a tag
> #853  Clone dialog 
> "username" is confusing
> #860  CredentialStore API
> #854  Error in History window
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
>
> Guille Polito
> Research Engineer
> 
> Centre de Recherche en Informatique, Signal et Automatique de Lille
> CRIStAL - UMR 9189
> French National Center for Scientific Research - http://www.cnrs.fr 
> 
> 
> Web: http://guillep.github.io 
> Phone: +33 06 52 70 66 13

[Pharo-users] [Ann] Iceberg v1.1.1

[Guillermo Polito]

Hi everybody,

This week we have a small patch release of Iceberg, version v1.1.1.
This version will be available in the next Pharo build.

In summary, this release fixes two issues with the new credentials manager,
and introduces a couple of other enhancements/bugfixes.

Below you will find the detailed changes log.
Enjoy,
Guille

Integrate Iceberg 1.1.1
https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/22168/Integrate-Iceberg-1-1-1

https://github.com/pharo-vcs/iceberg/releases/tag/v1.1.1

#864  Repairing Missing
repositories lead to wrong source directory
#861  update tonel to
v1.0.9
#836  DefaultBackendType
class variable is unused
#862  Iceberg tests are
not running in Pharo 7
#852  Make error dialogs
copy-pastable
#858  IceTipReadOnlyTextMorph
does not allow select and copy anymore
#850  Change Detached head
status from error to warning if we are on a tag
#853  Clone dialog
"username" is confusing
#860  CredentialStore API
#854  Error in History
window



-- 



Guille Polito

Research Engineer

Centre de Recherche en Informatique, Signal et Automatique de Lille

CRIStAL - UMR 9189

French National Center for Scientific Research - *http://www.cnrs.fr
*


*Web:* *http://guillep.github.io* 

*Phone: *+33 06 52 70 66 13

Re: [Pharo-users] How to contribute to Pharo Launcher?

[Cyril Ferlicot D.]

On 18/06/2018 17:27, Tim Mackinnon wrote:
> Hi Cyril - I have to confess that I don’t recall what the steps are to safely 
> commit in Monticello. I have smallish changes to 2 packages Core and Spec, 
> and I can see that smalltalkhub repo in the MC browser and can browse my 
> changes against it - but how do I commit both packages in there? I vaguely 
> recall something about slices - but wasn’t that a Pharo core thing?
> 
> I get the impression that I don’t just press save on each package against 
> sthub do I?
> 
> Sorry to be so dumb - I’ve just swapped out Monticello usage for Git usage 
> these days.  Just need a few hints to get back on track
> 

You need to save the two packages individually.

While git is project oriented, StHub is package oriented.

Slices are only for Pharo development. (One could adapt them to make
Monticello more project oriented but it is currently not the case).

So in conclusion, yes you need to press save on each package. :)

> Tim
> 
> 
> 


-- 
Cyril Ferlicot
https://ferlicot.fr

Re: [Pharo-users] How to contribute to Pharo Launcher?

[Tim Mackinnon]

Hi Cyril - I have to confess that I don’t recall what the steps are to safely 
commit in Monticello. I have smallish changes to 2 packages Core and Spec, and 
I can see that smalltalkhub repo in the MC browser and can browse my changes 
against it - but how do I commit both packages in there? I vaguely recall 
something about slices - but wasn’t that a Pharo core thing?

I get the impression that I don’t just press save on each package against sthub 
do I?

Sorry to be so dumb - I’ve just swapped out Monticello usage for Git usage 
these days.  Just need a few hints to get back on track

Tim

> On 18 Jun 2018, at 16:20, Cyril Ferlicot D.  wrote:
> 
> On 18/06/2018 17:15, Tim Mackinnon wrote:
>> Given Pharo Launcher is a bit in the limelight, I’m a bit nervous 
>> contributing blindly. Can someone point me/advice me towards how to safely 
>> push changes to StHub?
>> 
>> As I mentioned, I’ve added a last-modified column as well as fixing the 
>> broken status bar in PL (it looks like spec is a bit pernickety about nested 
>> tables). 
>> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Since there is stable version released, you can safely commit in the
> StHub repository as long as you do not do a destructive actions such has
> deleting a .mcz from StHub.
> 
> If the worst case, you will break the bleeding edge launcher, it will be
> detected by a review or a bleeding edge user and the commit will be
> either corrected or reverted.
> 
> I think stable versions are created from the versions defined in
> ConfigurationOfPharoLauncher.
> 
>> Tim
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Cyril Ferlicot
> https://ferlicot.fr
> 

Re: [Pharo-users] How to contribute to Pharo Launcher?

[Cyril Ferlicot D.]

On 18/06/2018 17:15, Tim Mackinnon wrote:
> Given Pharo Launcher is a bit in the limelight, I’m a bit nervous 
> contributing blindly. Can someone point me/advice me towards how to safely 
> push changes to StHub?
> 
> As I mentioned, I’ve added a last-modified column as well as fixing the 
> broken status bar in PL (it looks like spec is a bit pernickety about nested 
> tables). 
> 

Hi,

Since there is stable version released, you can safely commit in the
StHub repository as long as you do not do a destructive actions such has
deleting a .mcz from StHub.

If the worst case, you will break the bleeding edge launcher, it will be
detected by a review or a bleeding edge user and the commit will be
either corrected or reverted.

I think stable versions are created from the versions defined in
ConfigurationOfPharoLauncher.

> Tim
> 
> 
> 


-- 
Cyril Ferlicot
https://ferlicot.fr

Re: [Pharo-users] How to contribute to Pharo Launcher?

[Tim Mackinnon]

Given Pharo Launcher is a bit in the limelight, I’m a bit nervous contributing 
blindly. Can someone point me/advice me towards how to safely push changes to 
StHub?

As I mentioned, I’ve added a last-modified column as well as fixing the broken 
status bar in PL (it looks like spec is a bit pernickety about nested tables). 

Tim

> On 15 Jun 2018, at 22:25, Tim Mackinnon  wrote:
> 
> Hi Christophe - you are right, I did contribute many years ago (I found the 
> Mcz field on my disk when I just checked now) - but I’ll be darned If I can 
> remember how it works (I have to confess, I never really got on with 
> Metacello and slices).
> 
> Do I simply take my latest .mcz file in my local directory and somehow apply 
> it to the sthub repo (sorry if this is obvious to you - but I’ve plain 
> forgotten how its done).
> 
> It would be good to get it into GitHub - it certainly seems to work pretty 
> well now for most things, and it makes contributing so much easier.
> 
> Tim
> 
>> On 15 Jun 2018, at 08:14, Christophe Demarey  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Tim,
>> 
>>> Le 14 juin 2018 à 18:48, Tim Mackinnon  a écrit :
>>> 
>>> Is PharoLauncher using git - there is a note saying the StHub repo is about 
>>> to be moved?
>>> 
>>> I ask as I wanted to contribute a simple change that shows the modified 
>>> date of the images and lets you sort by that (I sometimes forget which was 
>>> the latest image I was using and have a few old ones kicking around).
>> 
>> 
>> Until now, I preferred to stay on StHub mainly because Iceberg was not ready 
>> to work smoothly with. I did not wanted to get extra-difficulties to work on 
>> Pharo Launcher (merge problems, etc).
>> That said, Iceberg has now moved a lot in the right direction and I think we 
>> could start to use git for Pharo Launcher development.
>> I will release a ne version of PharoLauncher soon and then, I think I will 
>> move PharoLauncher on github and use Cargo to manage it.
>> 
>> For your contribution, it is welcomed (in fact, it was planned to be added 
>> but you were faster). Feel free to commit it directly to the SH repository, 
>> I will then take a look at it. It looks like you already can commit: 
>> http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~Pharo/PharoLauncher/contributors.
>> 
>> Thanks Tim.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Christophe
> 
> 

Re: [Pharo-users] Windows installation broken?

[Herbert Vojčík]

Esteban Lorenzano wrote on 18. 6. 2018 16:04:




On 18 Jun 2018, at 15:39, Herbert Vojčík  wrote:



horrido wrote on 18. 6. 2018 0:04:

This is what concerns me. I don't care that there are workarounds
(undocumented or hard to find).
I care that Windows is a most popular development platform. I care that
newcomers to Pharo easily find what they need to get started. I care about
Pharo's reputation.
The last thing Pharo needs is a black eye.


Do you have enough balls to call out Steph for his obviously wrong decision to 
push Launcher down the users' throats and make him revert to working installers 
/ zips? Cause AFAICT there's the bottleneck atm.


First, it was MY decision.


My apologies to blaming Steph.


I’m pushing launcher as the default download for Pharo since year now.
Do I am happy with it not working on windows right now? Of course not. But 
pushing it also in windows has already forced us to fix some bugs there and a 
new version of the launcher (and a better Pharo on windows) and at the result 
will be good.
I was going to suspend the launcher as the default download until a better 
version arrived, but I’ve been told that will happen this week, so I will wait.

Second, we have a lot of bottlenecks, but is true this is important.

Third, please restrain your self to talk like that in the future. Is rude and 
unnecessary.


I won't. Sometimes it seems this kind of talk is needed. Windows 
launcher was not working for so long but it is still pushed as the 
default download option, because "higher goals" I presume. If this kind 
of talk helps to get rid of it until working (or make it finally 
actually work), it is anything but unnecessary.


Herby


Esteban



Herby


Travis Ayres wrote

I wonder how many people tried Pharo, thought "Oh this is totally broken"
and are never going to give it a second (or third) chance.

On Sun, Jun 17, 2018 at 11:26 AM,
phil@
  
phil@

wrote:


The current website shows the wrong link, the installer for the bleeding
edge is the wrong one in files.
The situation on the Windows front is very very bad and not really
improving.

That being said, the installer on the CI is the right one and works.

so, steal the installer from here: https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-ci-
jenkins2/job/PharoLauncher

This is the one you want:

https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-ci-jenkins2/job/PharoLauncher/

For having the latest lastet everything, go to the launcher settings, get
into the devmode and open monticello and load the latest packages.

Phil

--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Re: [Pharo-users] Windows installation broken?

[Sven Van Caekenberghe]

Most are using macOS (which can be considered more or less homogeneous since 
most mac users do update to recent versions at no cost).

Many people are using Linux too, both with UI and for servers. But since there 
are lots of Linux distributions, supporting a large portion of them is lots of 
work. I would say it is fair to say Ubuntu is the leading platform here.

It feels as if there are less Windows users in our community, and the Windows 
world is more fragmented over different versions.

People really underestimate how hard it is to support all these platforms with 
all their quirks. And of course, every individual user complains loudly when it 
is not working for them.

> On 18 Jun 2018, at 16:16, horrido  wrote:
> 
> Lack of enough Windows users? What platform are most Pharoers using?
> 
> I'm using macOS, but this platform has only about 12% market share. Linux
> has about 2%.
> 
> 
> Sven Van Caekenberghe-2 wrote
>>> On 18 Jun 2018, at 15:39, Herbert Vojčík 
> 
>> herby@
> 
>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> horrido wrote on 18. 6. 2018 0:04:
 This is what concerns me. I don't care that there are workarounds
 (undocumented or hard to find).
 I care that Windows is a most popular development platform. I care that
 newcomers to Pharo easily find what they need to get started. I care
 about
 Pharo's reputation.
 The last thing Pharo needs is a black eye.
>>> 
>>> Do you have enough balls to call out Steph for his obviously wrong
>>> decision to push Launcher down the users' throats and make him revert to
>>> working installers / zips? Cause AFAICT there's the bottleneck atm.
>> 
>> The problem is the lack of enough Windows users and especially developers
>> who can fix Windows problems.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
> 

Re: [Pharo-users] Windows installation broken?

[horrido]

Lack of enough Windows users? What platform are most Pharoers using?

I'm using macOS, but this platform has only about 12% market share. Linux
has about 2%.


Sven Van Caekenberghe-2 wrote
>> On 18 Jun 2018, at 15:39, Herbert Vojčík 

> herby@

>  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> horrido wrote on 18. 6. 2018 0:04:
>>> This is what concerns me. I don't care that there are workarounds
>>> (undocumented or hard to find).
>>> I care that Windows is a most popular development platform. I care that
>>> newcomers to Pharo easily find what they need to get started. I care
>>> about
>>> Pharo's reputation.
>>> The last thing Pharo needs is a black eye.
>> 
>> Do you have enough balls to call out Steph for his obviously wrong
>> decision to push Launcher down the users' throats and make him revert to
>> working installers / zips? Cause AFAICT there's the bottleneck atm.
> 
> The problem is the lack of enough Windows users and especially developers
> who can fix Windows problems.





--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Re: [Pharo-users] [Moose-dev] [ann] gt documenter

[Tudor Girba]

Hi,

Thanks.

About the next steps: We mostly think in terms of the overall goal, and the 
concrete next steps somehow happen. For us the end goal is a moldable 
environment that integrates all workflows related to development. Documentation 
is one of those development activities that are both pervasive and typically 
disliked, so it is only natural that we want to aim to create a full experience 
for it within the environment. 

What is more interesting to us is that we could create this experience without 
much effort due to the flexibility of the underlying framework. There is still 
engineering work to do, but I think the most difficult part is to rethink the 
way we approach UI given these new abilities.

Cheers,
Doru


> On Jun 17, 2018, at 3:09 PM, Denis Kudriashov  wrote:
> 
> Hi Tudor.
> 
> This is super impressive. 
> What's next? Do you plan to implement IDE for writing documents, navigation, 
> refactorings? (senders, renames should find all places in documents)
> 
> 2018-06-13 21:57 GMT+01:00 Tudor Girba :
> Hi,
> 
> We are happy to announce a new leap of GToolkit Documenter, the tool for 
> manipulating live documents directly in the development environment:
> https://github.com/feenkcom/gtoolkit-documenter
> 
> Documenter is part of the second generation GToolkit project, it is based on 
> Bloc and works with the latest Pillar. It is mainly developed by Juraj 
> Kubelka.
> 
> Attached you can see a preview of how documents look like:
> 
> 
> 
> At its core it offers a live editor for manipulating Pillar documents. The 
> interaction happens seamlessly directly in the text editor, and it can be 
> combined with different types of previews to serve several classes of use 
> cases:
>   • code documentation
>   • tutorials
>   • interactive data notebook
> 
> 
> Code documentation
> 
> Documenter complements the GToolkit Examples engine to redefine code 
> documentation. When practicing example-driven development, examples get 
> written as part of the typical development. Once examples exist, they can be 
> quickly put together in a document to form documentation. For example, the 
> linked picture shows the comment of a class containing a visual explanation:
> https://twitter.com/feenkcom/status/973899862482866176
> 
> You can see a live example of documentation by inspecting the following 
> snippet:
>   GtDocumenter editorForText: BrToggleExamples comment. 
> 
> 
> Tutorials:
> 
> Documenter offers a new experience of writing tutorials for Pharo by enabling 
> the creation and embedding of Epicea change sessions directly in the 
> document. For example, take a look at the following animation:
> https://twitter.com/feenkcom/status/75333972541440
> 
> The document shows a method on top, and a change preview at the bottom 
> showing both the code and the associated diff to the state from the image. 
> Applying the change updates both the change view (no more diff), and method 
> preview. This speeds up significantly the process of going through a 
> tutorial. Furthermore, given that now the document shows the diff to the 
> current image, the reader can safely explore alternative scenario and come 
> back to the tutorial at any time without losing the overview.
> 
> The size of the preview can also be adjusted live:
> https://twitter.com/feenkcom/status/1001152789874167808
> https://twitter.com/feenkcom/status/1001407762285375490
> 
> You can see a live tutorial by inspecting:
>   IceRepository repositoriesLocation / 'feenkcom'/ 'gtoolkit-examples' / 
> 'doc' / 'tutorial' / 'examples-tutorial.pillar’.
> 
> 
> Interactive data notebook:
> 
> A Documenter document can also be used as an interactive notebook. Internally 
> it essentially acts as a playground:
>   • it supports defining variables in code snippets, and
>   • the execution of code shows an embedded inspector.
> 
> For example:
> https://twitter.com/feenkcom/status/996310432225820672
> https://twitter.com/feenkcom/status/1002851190475026432
> 
> An example, can be seen by inspecting:
>   IceRepository repositoriesLocation / 'feenkcom'/ 'gtoolkit' / 'doc' / 
> 'gtoolkit' / 'gtoolkit.pillar'. 
> 
> 
> As always, please do let us know what you think.
> 
> Enjoy,
> The feenk team
> 
> 
> --
> www.tudorgirba.com
> www.feenk.com
> 
> "If you can't say why something is relevant, 
> it probably isn't."
> 
> 
> ___
> Moose-dev mailing list
> moose-...@list.inf.unibe.ch
> https://www.list.inf.unibe.ch/listinfo/moose-dev

--
www.tudorgirba.com
www.feenk.com

"If you can't say why something is relevant, 
it probably isn't."

Re: [Pharo-users] Windows installation broken?

[Esteban Lorenzano]

> On 18 Jun 2018, at 15:39, Herbert Vojčík  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> horrido wrote on 18. 6. 2018 0:04:
>> This is what concerns me. I don't care that there are workarounds
>> (undocumented or hard to find).
>> I care that Windows is a most popular development platform. I care that
>> newcomers to Pharo easily find what they need to get started. I care about
>> Pharo's reputation.
>> The last thing Pharo needs is a black eye.
> 
> Do you have enough balls to call out Steph for his obviously wrong decision 
> to push Launcher down the users' throats and make him revert to working 
> installers / zips? Cause AFAICT there's the bottleneck atm.

First, it was MY decision.
I’m pushing launcher as the default download for Pharo since year now. 
Do I am happy with it not working on windows right now? Of course not. But 
pushing it also in windows has already forced us to fix some bugs there and a 
new version of the launcher (and a better Pharo on windows) and at the result 
will be good. 
I was going to suspend the launcher as the default download until a better 
version arrived, but I’ve been told that will happen this week, so I will wait.

Second, we have a lot of bottlenecks, but is true this is important.

Third, please restrain your self to talk like that in the future. Is rude and 
unnecessary. 

Esteban

> 
> Herby
> 
>> Travis Ayres wrote
>>> I wonder how many people tried Pharo, thought "Oh this is totally broken"
>>> and are never going to give it a second (or third) chance.
>>> 
>>> On Sun, Jun 17, 2018 at 11:26 AM,
>>> phil@
>>>  
>>> phil@
>>> 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
 The current website shows the wrong link, the installer for the bleeding
 edge is the wrong one in files.
 The situation on the Windows front is very very bad and not really
 improving.
 
 That being said, the installer on the CI is the right one and works.
 
 so, steal the installer from here: https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-ci-
 jenkins2/job/PharoLauncher
 
 This is the one you want:
 
 https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-ci-jenkins2/job/PharoLauncher/
 
 For having the latest lastet everything, go to the launcher settings, get
 into the devmode and open monticello and load the latest packages.
 
 Phil
>> --
>> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
> 

Re: [Pharo-users] Windows installation broken?

[Sven Van Caekenberghe]

> On 18 Jun 2018, at 15:39, Herbert Vojčík  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> horrido wrote on 18. 6. 2018 0:04:
>> This is what concerns me. I don't care that there are workarounds
>> (undocumented or hard to find).
>> I care that Windows is a most popular development platform. I care that
>> newcomers to Pharo easily find what they need to get started. I care about
>> Pharo's reputation.
>> The last thing Pharo needs is a black eye.
> 
> Do you have enough balls to call out Steph for his obviously wrong decision 
> to push Launcher down the users' throats and make him revert to working 
> installers / zips? Cause AFAICT there's the bottleneck atm.

The problem is the lack of enough Windows users and especially developers who 
can fix Windows problems.

The 'first contact for people who don't know Pharo' on Windows is really hard 
for an IDE.

And although I am not daily using the Launcher myself, I too believe it is a 
really good tool for many users. It just needs fixing and maintenance, like 
everything out there that wants to be successful in our ever changing world.

> Herby
> 
>> Travis Ayres wrote
>>> I wonder how many people tried Pharo, thought "Oh this is totally broken"
>>> and are never going to give it a second (or third) chance.
>>> 
>>> On Sun, Jun 17, 2018 at 11:26 AM,
>>> phil@
>>>  
>>> phil@
>>> 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
 The current website shows the wrong link, the installer for the bleeding
 edge is the wrong one in files.
 The situation on the Windows front is very very bad and not really
 improving.
 
 That being said, the installer on the CI is the right one and works.
 
 so, steal the installer from here: https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-ci-
 jenkins2/job/PharoLauncher
 
 This is the one you want:
 
 https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-ci-jenkins2/job/PharoLauncher/
 
 For having the latest lastet everything, go to the launcher settings, get
 into the devmode and open monticello and load the latest packages.
 
 Phil
>> --
>> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
> 

Re: [Pharo-users] Windows installation broken?

[Tim Mackinnon]

> Do you have enough balls to call out Steph for his obviously wrong decision

That’s a bit provocative - I think the launcher is pretty good, and helps 
ensure people get correct versions of things as well as feel more comfortable 
checking out newer Pharo’s (like 7) or other projects. I’ll admit I've blown 
hot and cold on it over the last few years - but I’ve come back to it, as it is 
a nice tool - we just need to rally around and fix it on Windows - and ideally 
ensure its got some tests to show if its broken.

Possibly we could make the download page a bit clearer? But that’s a simple Bug 
report.

I actually admire the drive to push things on - and now is the time to rally 
around together as we’ve had a lot of changes that need stabilising so that 
exciting things like documenter can hit main stream as well.

Tim 

> On 18 Jun 2018, at 14:39, Herbert Vojčík  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> horrido wrote on 18. 6. 2018 0:04:
>> This is what concerns me. I don't care that there are workarounds
>> (undocumented or hard to find).
>> I care that Windows is a most popular development platform. I care that
>> newcomers to Pharo easily find what they need to get started. I care about
>> Pharo's reputation.
>> The last thing Pharo needs is a black eye.
> 
> Do you have enough balls to call out Steph for his obviously wrong decision 
> to push Launcher down the users' throats and make him revert to working 
> installers / zips? Cause AFAICT there's the bottleneck atm.
> 
> Herby
> 
>> Travis Ayres wrote
>>> I wonder how many people tried Pharo, thought "Oh this is totally broken"
>>> and are never going to give it a second (or third) chance.
>>> 
>>> On Sun, Jun 17, 2018 at 11:26 AM,
>>> phil@
>>>  
>>> phil@
>>> 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
 The current website shows the wrong link, the installer for the bleeding
 edge is the wrong one in files.
 The situation on the Windows front is very very bad and not really
 improving.
 
 That being said, the installer on the CI is the right one and works.
 
 so, steal the installer from here: https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-ci-
 jenkins2/job/PharoLauncher
 
 This is the one you want:
 
 https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-ci-jenkins2/job/PharoLauncher/
 
 For having the latest lastet everything, go to the launcher settings, get
 into the devmode and open monticello and load the latest packages.
 
 Phil
>> --
>> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
> 

Re: [Pharo-users] Windows installation broken?

[Herbert Vojčík]

horrido wrote on 18. 6. 2018 0:04:

This is what concerns me. I don't care that there are workarounds
(undocumented or hard to find).

I care that Windows is a most popular development platform. I care that
newcomers to Pharo easily find what they need to get started. I care about
Pharo's reputation.

The last thing Pharo needs is a black eye.


Do you have enough balls to call out Steph for his obviously wrong 
decision to push Launcher down the users' throats and make him revert to 
working installers / zips? Cause AFAICT there's the bottleneck atm.


Herby


Travis Ayres wrote

I wonder how many people tried Pharo, thought "Oh this is totally broken"
and are never going to give it a second (or third) chance.

On Sun, Jun 17, 2018 at 11:26 AM,



phil@



  



phil@




wrote:


The current website shows the wrong link, the installer for the bleeding
edge is the wrong one in files.
The situation on the Windows front is very very bad and not really
improving.

That being said, the installer on the CI is the right one and works.

so, steal the installer from here: https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-ci-
jenkins2/job/PharoLauncher

This is the one you want:

https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-ci-jenkins2/job/PharoLauncher/

For having the latest lastet everything, go to the launcher settings, get
into the devmode and open monticello and load the latest packages.

Phil






--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

[Pharo-users] Confusion for Pharo MOOC

[horrido]

I just discovered a huge source of confusion for the Pharo MOOC. There are
two different websites that seem disconnected. One presents information on
the next Pharo MOOC session, and the other doesn't.

https://www.fun-mooc.fr/courses/course-v1:inria+41010+session03/about

http://mooc.pharo.org

If you're in the know, this isn't a problem, but if you're a newcomer to
Pharo, it's a BIG problem.

How do I know? Because I was totally confused!



--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Re: [Pharo-users] Why doesn't Iceberg checkin other assets (scripts) but does check them out?

[Esteban A. Maringolo]

On 15/06/2018 20:00, Tim Mackinnon wrote:
> Phew - I can confirm that (unsurprisingly I guess) - just committing in
> Iceberg (without ticking - push changes to origin/master) does then let
> you easily overlay the same checked out project (typically
> ./iceberg/ProjectName) in a tool like VSCode or IntelliJ where you can
> then also commit further changes to files that Iceberg is ignoring
> (essentially everything not in the src directory - typically candidates
> would be your Readme.md file and possibly a ./scripts or ./assets
> directory).

That could work as a *workaround* to a design decision that made the
image the "staging" of a git commit.

> In that other tool you can then issue a push which will then atomically
> push all commits to a pipeline. It can be a little more tricky to
> understand what the pipeline is building - in Gitlab it will show you
> the comment of the most recent commit in the pipeline, however if you
> then click on the branch the pipeline is running on, you will get a list
> of commits and can see all the commits that are between the running
> pipeline and the previously run pipeline.
> 
> For many of you - this might be pleadingly obvious - but when you have a
> different workflow mindset in your head, it might be trickier to spot
> this subtlety.

But it's not what I'd expect when using git, in particular if you use
commit commands and/or CI, because if you add a comment like like "Fixes
Issue #2345" in your Iceberg commit, then your secondary commit (the one
done "externally" will look detached, you should replicate the commit
comment, so your CI will show the comment of the commit on which it's
building, etc.

Git favors small commits, but other tools expect atomic commits. They're
not exclusive.

> p.s. Thanks for all the useful debate in this thread. I should add that
> when I wrote “I’ll shut up” - a meant more that I felt the conversation
> was going in a cycle and repeating itself, not that I was offended or
> frustrated. I can probably live with the above nuance for my desire for
> atomic commits.

We're grown ups trying to improve Pharo, so unless stated otherwise or
clear agressions are visible (ad-hominems, passive agressiveness, etc.),
it's healthier to assume all comments are honest, constructive and with
good intentions.

Let's avoid the meta-disussion. :)


Regards,

-- 
Esteban A. Maringolo