Re: [Pharo-users] The results are in!

[Pavel Krivanek]

so 8. 2. 2020 v 23:33 odesílatel horrido  napsal:

> So this forum is only for Pharo newcomers who have questions? Seems rather
> limiting.
>
> When I join other language forums, I look for information about the
> language
> I'm investigating as a newcomer. This can include the language's
> capabilities, limitations, real-world usage, new tools, philosophical
> basis,
> and so on. General information across a broad spectrum of topics.
>
> And, yes, even trivia and factoids that I might find interesting. I
> appreciate that you don't find this interesting, but other forum visitors
> may.
>
> If the Pharo users forum wants to, it could do something as draconian as
> StackOverflow does: put a tight leash on submitted questions and boot out
> everybody who doesn't comply. This is one reason I don't go to
> StackOverflow
> very often — they aren't welcoming to people who just want to learn general
> things.
>
> I've told my readers that the Pharo users forum is welcoming. Please don't
> make a liar out of me.
>

We do not need to make a liar out of you. See your old e-mails:







*So, is Pharo being used to fight Ebola? Not exactly, but who cares?
I'mtrying to change people's perception. I'm trying to *move* them. If I
haveto exaggerate, I will do so.Has everybody heard of Smalltalk? Of course
not. And it doesn't matter. I'mtaking /literary licence/. As a writer and a
marketer, I am allowed to dothis.*

-- Pavel

Guillermo Polito wrote
> > Hi Richard,
> >
> > I’d like to invite you to refrain yourself from posting such off-topic
> > messages in the future.
> >
> > This list is for people to *ask* questions about Pharo. Not to diffuse
> any
> > kind of propaganda (pharo related or not).
> > You’re not asking a question about Pharo, nor answering a question about
> > Pharo.
> > So I personally find all these emails off-topic and uninteresting.
> >
> > I have the feeling this list has been lately flooded with such off-topic
> > messages.
> > And this only chases off this list people really interested about the
> main
> > topic of the list (like me).
> >
> > Maybe this shows this competition / PR campaign you’re running needs
> > another channel?
> > I know you don’t agree, but I invite you to read here the **purpose** of
> > this list, just for respect to people subscribed to it:
> >https://lists.pharo.org/mailman/listinfo/pharo-users_lists.pharo.org
> > 
> https://lists.pharo.org/mailman/listinfo/pharo-users_lists.pharo.org;
> >
> > Thanks for your comprehension,
> > Guille
> >
> >> El 8 feb 2020, a las 19:12, Richard Kenneth Eng 
>
> > horrido.hobbies@
>
> >  escribió:
> >>
> >> Round 1 — #1 Leading Team: https://youtu.be/QWHeN5WXfBQ
> >> https://youtu.be/QWHeN5WXfBQ;
> >>
> >> I'm actually quite amazed by their effort. They surpassed my
> >> expectations.
> >>
> >> At the risk of sounding immodest, I think this is a terrific way to
> >> promote Smalltalk (Pharo). I think the video is an absolute blast.
> >>
> >> Richard
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
>
>

Re: [Pharo-users] NeoJSONParseError: invalid input: ' while parsing a Wikipedia exported article.

[Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas]

Hi,

My hypothesis was closer to Erik's but I thought that being a JSON taken
from Wikimedia API, it should be correct. I didn't realize that I
converted it to STON to preserve line breaks and improve diff
friendliness. After using `STON fromString:` as advised by Peter,
everything worked well.

Thanks everyone for their timely "wisdom nuggets". I learned a little by
with each message here.

Cheers,

Offray

On 8/02/20 5:35 a. m., Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Like Erik says the input is indeed illegal JSON. JSON strings are delimited 
> using double quotes not single quotes. There is no way around this, this is 
> not optional.
>
> As Peter says, STON is more flexible. STON itself uses single quotes to be 
> closer to Smalltalk. STON in its JSON compatibility mode does also recognise 
> double quotes. So the class STONReader supports both, without further 
> configuration.
>
> Sven
>
>> On 8 Feb 2020, at 10:34, PBKResearch  wrote:
>>
>> Offray
>>
>> I have a workaround, not an explanation. I don't use NeoJSON, because for me 
>> the JSON facilities of STON are sufficient. So I tried you script with 
>> 'NeoJSONReader fromString:' replaced by 'STON fromString:' - everything 
>> worked perfectly, no parsing error. So clearly there is nothing wrong with 
>> your input file. If you have STON installed, or think it worth installing, 
>> this could get you moving.
>>
>> HTH
>>
>> Peter Kenny
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Pharo-users  On Behalf Of Offray 
>> Vladimir Luna Cárdenas
>> Sent: 08 February 2020 07:38
>> To: Any question about pharo is welcome 
>> Subject: [Pharo-users] NeoJSONParseError: invalid input: ' while parsing a 
>> Wikipedia exported article.
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'm trying to read the contents of a Wikipedia article that was exported 
>> from there using Wikipedias JSON API.
>>
>> The script I'm trying is:
>>
>> NeoJSONReader fromString:
>> 'https://mutabit.com/repos.fossil/pharopedia/doc/tip/docs/wikipedia.org/wiki/en/Pharo/contents.json'
>> asUrl retrieveContents utf8Decoded
>>
>> But I get "NeoJSONParseError: invalid input: '". As far as I can tell, the 
>> file at [1] seems like valid JSON, as is the one that Wikipedia API exports
>>
>> [1]
>> 'https://mutabit.com/repos.fossil/pharopedia/doc/tip/docs/wikipedia.org/wiki/en/Pharo/contents.json'
>>
>> Could anybody point me to a solution?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Offray
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [Pharo-users] The results are in!

[horrido]

Self-promotion??? I generally dislike inserting myself personally into
Smalltalk advocacy. My campaign is all about Smalltalk; I'm just the
vehicle.

If you're referring to my comment "at the risk of sounding immodest," I am
rightfully proud of my video. It does a damn good job of promoting Pharo.
Beyond that, however, I don't ever want this campaign to be about me.

So what self-promotion are you referring to?

As for "content-free," the video is good content, at least, from the
perspective of marketing. Of course, you wouldn't think it was valid content
if you don't believe in marketing Pharo, a sentiment that I think is
unfortunately shared by many in this forum.



Pierce Ng-3 wrote
> On Sat, Feb 08, 2020 at 05:50:18PM -0500, Benoit St-Jean via Pharo-users
> wrote:
>> MAYBE we need another list...
> 
> Maybe Richard just needs to adjust the style of his mails...
> 
>> This is getting ridiculous!  The guy spends energy, time, effort and is
>> able
>> to gather 13K in prizes and puts Pharo to the forefront with this cool
>> contest in schools, makes a lot of youngsters learn & use Pharo for their
>> projects, puts up a website, makes videos, writes blog posts, PROMOTES
>> Pharo
>> and he gets slapped for posting here ?!?!  WTF ???
> 
> Like if the subject of Richard's mail is "Pharo success story part 3:
> blah blah" and his opening paragraph is descriptive, similar to what you
> wrote above, I'd read the mail and watch the video. As it is, his mail
> is content-free and comes across purely as self-promotion.
> 
> Pierce





--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Re: [Pharo-users] The results are in!

[Pierce Ng]

On Sat, Feb 08, 2020 at 05:50:18PM -0500, Benoit St-Jean via Pharo-users wrote:
> MAYBE we need another list...

Maybe Richard just needs to adjust the style of his mails...

> This is getting ridiculous!  The guy spends energy, time, effort and is able
> to gather 13K in prizes and puts Pharo to the forefront with this cool
> contest in schools, makes a lot of youngsters learn & use Pharo for their
> projects, puts up a website, makes videos, writes blog posts, PROMOTES Pharo
> and he gets slapped for posting here ?!?!  WTF ???

Like if the subject of Richard's mail is "Pharo success story part 3:
blah blah" and his opening paragraph is descriptive, similar to what you
wrote above, I'd read the mail and watch the video. As it is, his mail
is content-free and comes across purely as self-promotion.

Pierce

Re: [Pharo-users] The results are in!

[Benoit St-Jean via Pharo-users]

--- Begin Message ---
I guess I have to re-ask again since nobody answered my question from 
this week...


Where can we post Pharo 
questions/remarks/thoughts/you-might-want-to-have-a-look-at-this-cool-idea/whatever 
(or anything that could be of any interest to Pharoers) ?


MAYBE we need another list...

This is getting ridiculous!  The guy spends energy, time, effort and is 
able to gather 13K in prizes and puts Pharo to the forefront with this 
cool contest in schools, makes a lot of youngsters learn & use Pharo for 
their projects, puts up a website, makes videos, writes blog posts, 
PROMOTES Pharo and he gets slapped for posting here ?!?!  WTF ???


Where should he post?  Where should I post ?

On 2020-02-08 17:35, Guillermo Polito wrote:

Hi Richard,

I’d like to invite you to refrain yourself from posting such off-topic 
messages in the future.



--
-
Benoît St-Jean
Yahoo! Messenger: bstjean
Twitter: @BenLeChialeux
Pinterest: benoitstjean
Instagram: Chef_Benito
IRC: lamneth
GitHub: bstjean
Blogue: endormitoire.wordpress.com
"A standpoint is an intellectual horizon of radius zero".  (A. Einstein)


--- End Message ---

Re: [Pharo-users] The results are in!

[Guillermo Polito]

Hi Richard,

I’d like to invite you to refrain yourself from posting such off-topic messages 
in the future.

This list is for people to *ask* questions about Pharo. Not to diffuse any kind 
of propaganda (pharo related or not).
You’re not asking a question about Pharo, nor answering a question about Pharo.
So I personally find all these emails off-topic and uninteresting.

I have the feeling this list has been lately flooded with such off-topic 
messages.
And this only chases off this list people really interested about the main 
topic of the list (like me).

Maybe this shows this competition / PR campaign you’re running needs another 
channel?
I know you don’t agree, but I invite you to read here the **purpose** of this 
list, just for respect to people subscribed to it:
   https://lists.pharo.org/mailman/listinfo/pharo-users_lists.pharo.org

Thanks for your comprehension,
Guille

> El 8 feb 2020, a las 23:33, horrido  escribió:
> 
> So this forum is only for Pharo newcomers who have questions? Seems rather
> limiting.
> 
> When I join other language forums, I look for information about the language
> I'm investigating as a newcomer. This can include the language's
> capabilities, limitations, real-world usage, new tools, philosophical basis,
> and so on. General information across a broad spectrum of topics.
> 
> And, yes, even trivia and factoids that I might find interesting. I
> appreciate that you don't find this interesting, but other forum visitors
> may.
> 
> If the Pharo users forum wants to, it could do something as draconian as
> StackOverflow does: put a tight leash on submitted questions and boot out
> everybody who doesn't comply. This is one reason I don't go to StackOverflow
> very often — they aren't welcoming to people who just want to learn general
> things.
> 
> I've told my readers that the Pharo users forum is welcoming. Please don't
> make a liar out of me.
> 
> 
> 
> Guillermo Polito wrote
>> Hi Richard,
>> 
>> I’d like to invite you to refrain yourself from posting such off-topic
>> messages in the future.
>> 
>> This list is for people to *ask* questions about Pharo. Not to diffuse any
>> kind of propaganda (pharo related or not).
>> You’re not asking a question about Pharo, nor answering a question about
>> Pharo.
>> So I personally find all these emails off-topic and uninteresting.
>> 
>> I have the feeling this list has been lately flooded with such off-topic
>> messages.
>> And this only chases off this list people really interested about the main
>> topic of the list (like me).
>> 
>> Maybe this shows this competition / PR campaign you’re running needs
>> another channel?
>> I know you don’t agree, but I invite you to read here the **purpose** of
>> this list, just for respect to people subscribed to it:
>>   https://lists.pharo.org/mailman/listinfo/pharo-users_lists.pharo.org
>> https://lists.pharo.org/mailman/listinfo/pharo-users_lists.pharo.org 
>> ;
>> 
>> Thanks for your comprehension,
>> Guille
>> 
>>> El 8 feb 2020, a las 19:12, Richard Kenneth Eng 
> 
>> horrido.hobbies@
> 
>>  escribió:
>>> 
>>> Round 1 — #1 Leading Team: https://youtu.be/QWHeN5WXfBQ 
>>> 
>>> https://youtu.be/QWHeN5WXfBQ ;
>>> 
>>> I'm actually quite amazed by their effort. They surpassed my
>>> expectations.
>>> 
>>> At the risk of sounding immodest, I think this is a terrific way to
>>> promote Smalltalk (Pharo). I think the video is an absolute blast.
>>> 
>>> Richard
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html 
> 

Re: [Pharo-users] The results are in!

[horrido]

So this forum is only for Pharo newcomers who have questions? Seems rather
limiting.

When I join other language forums, I look for information about the language
I'm investigating as a newcomer. This can include the language's
capabilities, limitations, real-world usage, new tools, philosophical basis,
and so on. General information across a broad spectrum of topics.

And, yes, even trivia and factoids that I might find interesting. I
appreciate that you don't find this interesting, but other forum visitors
may.

If the Pharo users forum wants to, it could do something as draconian as
StackOverflow does: put a tight leash on submitted questions and boot out
everybody who doesn't comply. This is one reason I don't go to StackOverflow
very often — they aren't welcoming to people who just want to learn general
things.

I've told my readers that the Pharo users forum is welcoming. Please don't
make a liar out of me.



Guillermo Polito wrote
> Hi Richard,
> 
> I’d like to invite you to refrain yourself from posting such off-topic
> messages in the future.
> 
> This list is for people to *ask* questions about Pharo. Not to diffuse any
> kind of propaganda (pharo related or not).
> You’re not asking a question about Pharo, nor answering a question about
> Pharo.
> So I personally find all these emails off-topic and uninteresting.
> 
> I have the feeling this list has been lately flooded with such off-topic
> messages.
> And this only chases off this list people really interested about the main
> topic of the list (like me).
> 
> Maybe this shows this competition / PR campaign you’re running needs
> another channel?
> I know you don’t agree, but I invite you to read here the **purpose** of
> this list, just for respect to people subscribed to it:
>https://lists.pharo.org/mailman/listinfo/pharo-users_lists.pharo.org
> https://lists.pharo.org/mailman/listinfo/pharo-users_lists.pharo.org;
> 
> Thanks for your comprehension,
> Guille
> 
>> El 8 feb 2020, a las 19:12, Richard Kenneth Eng 

> horrido.hobbies@

>  escribió:
>> 
>> Round 1 — #1 Leading Team: https://youtu.be/QWHeN5WXfBQ
>> https://youtu.be/QWHeN5WXfBQ;
>> 
>> I'm actually quite amazed by their effort. They surpassed my
>> expectations.
>> 
>> At the risk of sounding immodest, I think this is a terrific way to
>> promote Smalltalk (Pharo). I think the video is an absolute blast.
>> 
>> Richard





--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Re: [Pharo-users] The results are in!

[Richard Sargent]

I've found this topic both interesting and upsetting at times. I do
understand the desire to address Pharo issues without getting sidetracked
by other topics.

However, this particular thread started as a Pharo user's success story.
Didn't it? Isn't Pharo the implementation used for the contest? Are all
success stories to be banned as a consequence, intended or otherwise?


On Sat, Feb 8, 2020, 11:24 Guillermo Polito 
wrote:

> Hi Richard,
>
> I’d like to invite you to refrain yourself from posting such off-topic
> messages in the future.
>
> This list is for people to *ask* questions about Pharo. Not to diffuse any
> kind of propaganda (pharo related or not).
> You’re not asking a question about Pharo, nor answering a question about
> Pharo.
> So I personally find all these emails off-topic and uninteresting.
>
> I have the feeling this list has been lately flooded with such off-topic
> messages.
> And this only chases off this list people really interested about the main
> topic of the list (like me).
>
> Maybe this shows this competition / PR campaign you’re running needs
> another channel?
> I know you don’t agree, but I invite you to read here the **purpose** of
> this list, just for respect to people subscribed to it:
>https://lists.pharo.org/mailman/listinfo/pharo-users_lists.pharo.org
>
> Thanks for your comprehension,
> Guille
>
> El 8 feb 2020, a las 19:12, Richard Kenneth Eng 
> escribió:
>
> Round 1 — #1 Leading Team: https://youtu.be/QWHeN5WXfBQ
>
> I'm actually quite amazed by their effort. They surpassed my expectations.
>
> At the risk of sounding immodest, I think this is a terrific way to
> promote Smalltalk (Pharo). I think the video is an absolute blast.
>
> Richard
>
>
>

[Pharo-users] Setting a model for a Spec UI in Pharo 8

[Bren]

Hi Pharo friends,

TL;DR: How should one open a presenter on a user-specified model?  Is 
SpPresenterWithModel>>setAnnouncingObject: missing a call to modelChanged?

The long version:
I am trying to write a UI for my threat modeling tool using Spec in Pharo 8.  I 
had trouble getting my first presenter to show me my model.  My current VERY 
WIP tiny code is available from g...@github.com:octotrike/groundhog.git, on 
branch pharo-sp-presenter-question.

I wanted to do something like this (paraphrased from the class comment for my 
BLFunctionPresenter class):

BLFunctionPresenter new
   model: aModel; 
   openWithSpec

Unfortunately, the UI continued to show the default announcingObject (nil), 
even though announcingObject had changed as expected.

The examples I found showed either
- a containing presenter getting an event, changing instance variables on a 
presenter it contains, and sending modelChanged, or
- a presenter hard coded to show a model that is globally accessible.

In the end, I added self modelChanged to the end of 
SpPresenterWithModel>>setAnnouncingObject:.  It seemed like this method changed 
announcingObject and registered this presenter to receive modelChanged every 
time changes to the announcingObject occurred.  However, in cases like the one 
I am describing, the change is replacement of the entire announcingObject, so 
no announcingObject sends modelChanged.

Was/is this a bug in Spec?  Or is there something else I should be doing to 
open a Spec UI on a model that is neither global nor specified by a parent 
presenter?

Bren

Re: [Pharo-users] The results are in!

[Guillermo Polito]

Hi Richard,

I’d like to invite you to refrain yourself from posting such off-topic messages 
in the future.

This list is for people to *ask* questions about Pharo. Not to diffuse any kind 
of propaganda (pharo related or not).
You’re not asking a question about Pharo, nor answering a question about Pharo.
So I personally find all these emails off-topic and uninteresting.

I have the feeling this list has been lately flooded with such off-topic 
messages.
And this only chases off this list people really interested about the main 
topic of the list (like me).

Maybe this shows this competition / PR campaign you’re running needs another 
channel?
I know you don’t agree, but I invite you to read here the **purpose** of this 
list, just for respect to people subscribed to it:
   https://lists.pharo.org/mailman/listinfo/pharo-users_lists.pharo.org 


Thanks for your comprehension,
Guille

> El 8 feb 2020, a las 19:12, Richard Kenneth Eng  
> escribió:
> 
> Round 1 — #1 Leading Team: https://youtu.be/QWHeN5WXfBQ 
> 
> 
> I'm actually quite amazed by their effort. They surpassed my expectations.
> 
> At the risk of sounding immodest, I think this is a terrific way to promote 
> Smalltalk (Pharo). I think the video is an absolute blast.
> 
> Richard

[Pharo-users] The results are in!

[Richard Kenneth Eng]

Round 1 — #1 Leading Team: https://youtu.be/QWHeN5WXfBQ

I'm actually quite amazed by their effort. They surpassed my expectations.

At the risk of sounding immodest, I think this is a terrific way to promote
Smalltalk (Pharo). I think the video is an absolute blast.

Richard

Re: [Pharo-users] About "it's not pharo but smalltalk"

[TedVanGaalen]

Hi Ben
Maybe you misunderstood what I meant.
I was thinking of Pharo-backward-compatibility.
not Smalltalk-backward-compatibility

I am only suggesting that Pharo should be downward compatible
(that is, within Pharo's scope only). 
meaning that everything built wit Pharo version X  
should load and run in Pharo pharo version X + n
without any changes. 

This means that a package/app running OK in Pharo 8,
should work without any changes whatsoever
in, say, Pharo 12, ca 2 years later. and even beyond that,
preferably many Pharo releases later!

Therefore, any extension/improvement of Pharo itself should be done
on top of that, not by replacing/deprecating existing classes.
As not to break downward compatibility.

(looking at the basic underlying system classes, it looks
like this has already been done that way in most cases, 
simply because Smalltalk is a hierarchical rooted object system, 
which means that changing the deeper is very hard because
it (could) tears up the very fabric of Smalltalk/Pharo itself,
right?)


If one reads through this Pharo user forum, and also many other 
Smalltalk forums, you can read about many cases of packages that 
no longer will work after yet another version of Pharo is released. 
This is unacceptable: new Pharo releases should not break those
packages.

read again:
> Downward compatibility prevents people 
> from have tediously edit and test their packages 
> again and again each time some have 
> the "brilliant" idea to deprecate stuff. 

Let's assume for a moment that I want (currently i don't) 
to create a package/application, taking many months of my precious time. 
After a long time, my hard work is finally completed and tested: wow, the 
big dragon flies! 

However, yet another year later, it no longer loads and I have to spend a 
considerable amount of time re-editing and testing my package to get 
it working correctly again, let alone thereby considering the delicate
interaction 
with other third party packages that -guess what?- 
are dealing with similar release breaking problems at the same time.

Unnecessary work, repeating itself with almost every new version of Pharo.

Realizing that this is an almost eternal trap, this suffices to deter me
from even 
starting to create such a package! Thus trying to avoid a very tedious 
and iterating process of repairing things that once were perfectly OK. 

Somehow many don't seem get this:
Too academic? making some sort of hobby out of their work.
without realizing real-world situations in a though production/industrial 
environment. In combination with the lack of standardization of Smalltalk, 
this is probably one  the reasons the installed base of Smalltalk 
(and Pharo based apps) is very small.

If one doesn't understand this, one should ask themselves why the heck
they are software developers in the first place. 

On IBM mainframes I can still load and recompile unchanged COBOL source
files
from ca. 1974 and they'll run flawlessly: more than 40 years later.
(btw your bank account runs on mainframes, probably in COBOL btw.)

Of course it is a splendid idea to improve Pharo,
seeing how Pharo is now, great to work with. 
However, this should be done in such a way that 
downward compatibility is guaranteed.



IMHO, Regards
TedvG.







--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Re: [Pharo-users] About "it's not pharo but smalltalk"

[horrido]

I agree completely. Pharo is a Smalltalk, but it need not be constrained by
Smalltalk-80. Pharo is completely free to chart its own course. As far as I
can tell, Nik Boyd's Hoot Smalltalk is doing the same thing.

This is purely a PR matter. Pharo's reputation doesn't want to be tarred
with Smalltalk's feathers. So the philosophy is, sever all ties with
Smalltalk's legacy.

Well, that's one approach. Here's another: change the public's perception of
Smalltalk. Take the bull by the horns. That's the total premise of my
five-year PR campaign.

Smalltalk's legacy is not an albatross. It can be a source of great power
for publicity. I intend to prove that.



Ben Coman wrote
> I am of the side of this argument that Pharo is a kind of Smalltalk,
> but the group that forked Squeak to create Pharo did so with the
> express intention of being separate-from-Smalltalk
> and we should respect that intention.  Indeed here we can see three
> reasons why they feel the need to advertise that separation...
> 
> On Fri, 7 Feb 2020 at 21:45, TedVanGaalen 

> tedvga@

>  wrote:
>>
>> make improvement/changes only in such
>> a way that anything written before will
>> run without any modification
> 
> You are constraining what Pharo can be.
> 
> 
>> Downward compatibility prevents people
>> from have tediously edit and test their packages
>> again and again each time some have
>> the "brilliant" idea to deprecate stuff.
> 
> You are constraining what Pharo can be.
> 
> 
>> If you want to implement newer core like things
>> co-existence with previous is preferable.
>> Do at the very least not alter the core/system classes.
> 
> You are constraining what Pharo can be.
> 
> 
> The aim of the advertised statement that Pharo-is-not-Smalltalk is to
> avoid you "later" being surprised if it differs from ST-80.
> A marketing strategy analogous to a "fail early" programming paradigm,
> and avoid such arguments that try to shackle Pharo.
> 
> In practice, its probably many years before Pharo is any more
> incompatible with Smalltalk than the incompatibilities between
> existing Smalltalks.
> But Smalltalk-backward-compatibility should not be one of your
> tick-boxes to choose Pharo.
> 
> cheers -ben





--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Re: [Pharo-users] About "it's not pharo but smalltalk"

[Benoit St-Jean via Pharo-users]

--- Begin Message ---
Smalltalk didn't "fail". We just didn't have the CPU power at the time 
to achieve our dreams! And "Smalltalk is slow" was tagged forever 
besides the name...


2020-02-08 07:17, Ben Coman wrote:The aim of the advertised statement 
that Pharo-is-not-Smalltalk is to

avoid you "later" being surprised if it differs from ST-80.
A marketing strategy analogous to a "fail early" programming paradigm,
and avoid such arguments that try to shackle Pharo.

In practice, its probably many years before Pharo is any more
incompatible with Smalltalk than the incompatibilities between
existing Smalltalks.
But Smalltalk-backward-compatibility should not be one of your
tick-boxes to choose Pharo.

cheers -ben


--
-
Benoît St-Jean
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Blogue: endormitoire.wordpress.com
"A standpoint is an intellectual horizon of radius zero".  (A. Einstein)


--- End Message ---

Re: [Pharo-users] About "it's not pharo but smalltalk"

[Ben Coman]

I am of the side of this argument that Pharo is a kind of Smalltalk,
but the group that forked Squeak to create Pharo did so with the
express intention of being separate-from-Smalltalk
and we should respect that intention.  Indeed here we can see three
reasons why they feel the need to advertise that separation...

On Fri, 7 Feb 2020 at 21:45, TedVanGaalen  wrote:
>
> make improvement/changes only in such
> a way that anything written before will
> run without any modification

You are constraining what Pharo can be.


> Downward compatibility prevents people
> from have tediously edit and test their packages
> again and again each time some have
> the "brilliant" idea to deprecate stuff.

You are constraining what Pharo can be.


> If you want to implement newer core like things
> co-existence with previous is preferable.
> Do at the very least not alter the core/system classes.

You are constraining what Pharo can be.


The aim of the advertised statement that Pharo-is-not-Smalltalk is to
avoid you "later" being surprised if it differs from ST-80.
A marketing strategy analogous to a "fail early" programming paradigm,
and avoid such arguments that try to shackle Pharo.

In practice, its probably many years before Pharo is any more
incompatible with Smalltalk than the incompatibilities between
existing Smalltalks.
But Smalltalk-backward-compatibility should not be one of your
tick-boxes to choose Pharo.

cheers -ben

Re: [Pharo-users] NeoJSONParseError: invalid input: ' while parsing a Wikipedia exported article.

[Sven Van Caekenberghe]

Hi,

Like Erik says the input is indeed illegal JSON. JSON strings are delimited 
using double quotes not single quotes. There is no way around this, this is not 
optional.

As Peter says, STON is more flexible. STON itself uses single quotes to be 
closer to Smalltalk. STON in its JSON compatibility mode does also recognise 
double quotes. So the class STONReader supports both, without further 
configuration.

Sven

> On 8 Feb 2020, at 10:34, PBKResearch  wrote:
> 
> Offray
> 
> I have a workaround, not an explanation. I don't use NeoJSON, because for me 
> the JSON facilities of STON are sufficient. So I tried you script with 
> 'NeoJSONReader fromString:' replaced by 'STON fromString:' - everything 
> worked perfectly, no parsing error. So clearly there is nothing wrong with 
> your input file. If you have STON installed, or think it worth installing, 
> this could get you moving.
> 
> HTH
> 
> Peter Kenny
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Pharo-users  On Behalf Of Offray 
> Vladimir Luna Cárdenas
> Sent: 08 February 2020 07:38
> To: Any question about pharo is welcome 
> Subject: [Pharo-users] NeoJSONParseError: invalid input: ' while parsing a 
> Wikipedia exported article.
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I'm trying to read the contents of a Wikipedia article that was exported from 
> there using Wikipedias JSON API.
> 
> The script I'm trying is:
> 
> NeoJSONReader fromString:
> 'https://mutabit.com/repos.fossil/pharopedia/doc/tip/docs/wikipedia.org/wiki/en/Pharo/contents.json'
> asUrl retrieveContents utf8Decoded
> 
> But I get "NeoJSONParseError: invalid input: '". As far as I can tell, the 
> file at [1] seems like valid JSON, as is the one that Wikipedia API exports
> 
> [1]
> 'https://mutabit.com/repos.fossil/pharopedia/doc/tip/docs/wikipedia.org/wiki/en/Pharo/contents.json'
> 
> Could anybody point me to a solution?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Offray
> 
> 
> 

Re: [Pharo-users] NeoJSONParseError: invalid input: ' while parsing a Wikipedia exported article.

[PBKResearch]

Offray

I have a workaround, not an explanation. I don't use NeoJSON, because for me 
the JSON facilities of STON are sufficient. So I tried you script with 
'NeoJSONReader fromString:' replaced by 'STON fromString:' - everything worked 
perfectly, no parsing error. So clearly there is nothing wrong with your input 
file. If you have STON installed, or think it worth installing, this could get 
you moving.

HTH

Peter Kenny

-Original Message-
From: Pharo-users  On Behalf Of Offray 
Vladimir Luna Cárdenas
Sent: 08 February 2020 07:38
To: Any question about pharo is welcome 
Subject: [Pharo-users] NeoJSONParseError: invalid input: ' while parsing a 
Wikipedia exported article.

Hi,

I'm trying to read the contents of a Wikipedia article that was exported from 
there using Wikipedias JSON API.

The script I'm trying is:

NeoJSONReader fromString:
'https://mutabit.com/repos.fossil/pharopedia/doc/tip/docs/wikipedia.org/wiki/en/Pharo/contents.json'
asUrl retrieveContents utf8Decoded

But I get "NeoJSONParseError: invalid input: '". As far as I can tell, the file 
at [1] seems like valid JSON, as is the one that Wikipedia API exports

[1]
'https://mutabit.com/repos.fossil/pharopedia/doc/tip/docs/wikipedia.org/wiki/en/Pharo/contents.json'

Could anybody point me to a solution?

Thanks,

Offray

Re: [Pharo-users] NeoJSONParseError: invalid input: ' while parsing a Wikipedia exported article.

[Erik Stel]

Offray,

JSON only allows double quotes for strings, not single quotes. 

Cheers,
Erik



--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html