Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-DOC] Apache 2 installation instructions
On Tue, Oct 29, 2002 at 11:27:51AM +0100, Derick Rethans wrote: Ah yes - but that will contradict greatly, to the best version yet marketing trick the Apache Group is advertising on their front page. We can mention it to users, in the bug db etc. But officially documenting, that Apache 2 is really a beta product, doesn't really express consistency, between the family. I'm aware that this is not a technical reason not to do this, I'm just pointing out how this can be perceived. We can't change the fact that they simply lie about it. But wording it like Apache and PHP are not to be used in production environments should not produce flames from the apache people I think :) It's not so much anyone's fault. There are problems all around. The two main problems I see in getting full stable support for PHP under Apache2 are: 1) Apache2 filters and flex/bison input streams (via the sapi interface) are not playing nice and will take some tweaking to get to play nice. a) Specifically, there are problems with large input bodies [IIRC] at the moment. 2) Any 3rd party library that is linked with PHP and/or Apache2 must be threadsafe (if Apache2 is configured to run multithreaded). -aaron -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-DOC] Apache 2 installation instructions
The aspect people complaining about is more a version thingie, e.g. they try to set up php 4.2.3 with apache 2.0.43 and this could not succeed. Is it really necessary to document that apache 2.03x works only with php 4.2.x1, php4.2.x2 and apache 2.04x only with php4.2y1 or php4.2.y2? It should be clearly mentioned, that the support for apache2 isn't production stable ;-) I think, it would be nice to add information to one place, the documentation about Apache 2 support. 1. It's not production ready 2. If someone want to set it up, how to do it (Linux, Windows) 3. What PHP versions work with what Apache 2 versions For this information it would be nice if someone from the devs could give a short view about. PHP-Version: Apache version supported: 4.2.0 started ?? 4.2.1 ?? 4.2.2 ?? 4.2.3 2.0.3x or 2.0.4x snap build2.0.43 I am also satified if someone could tell me, where to find this info by mayself :-) 4. It should be noted, that Apache 1 support is continued ;) O.K. if I'll find the time I'all add some initial docs about. Also a point to consider is the name of the correct cgi executable for win: in 4.2.3 it's php.exe the cli-build names php-cli.exe. In the 4.3.0-dev the cli names php.exe and the cgi-version php-cgi.exe. I don't know why the names changed, maybe to confuse the people once more and to give some work for the doc-folks ;-) Doh, it would be nice to stick to some final names ;) Could someone of the devs give a hint, please? NOTE: cca. 80% of the user notes on the Apache setup page deals with Apache 2 installation. We should add verified info to the docs, and delete those notes. There are many sites offering a php4apache2.dll to download. These can harm our users, as they can contain any vulnerable code, which our users download, just because there is no official support/documentation for Apache... http://www.php.net/manual/en/install.apache.php Please keep this in mind, o.k. convinced :-) Friedhelm -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-DOC] Apache 2 installation instructions
At 08:43 29-10-2002, Gabor Hojtsy wrote: The aspect people complaining about is more a version thingie, e.g. they try to set up php 4.2.3 with apache 2.0.43 and this could not succeed. Is it really necessary to document that apache 2.03x works only with php 4.2.x1, php4.2.x2 and apache 2.04x only with php4.2y1 or php4.2.y2? It should be clearly mentioned, that the support for apache2 isn't production stable ;-) I think, it would be nice to add information to one place, the documentation about Apache 2 support. 1. It's not production ready Ah yes - but that will contradict greatly, to the best version yet marketing trick the Apache Group is advertising on their front page. We can mention it to users, in the bug db etc. But officially documenting, that Apache 2 is really a beta product, doesn't really express consistency, between the family. I'm aware that this is not a technical reason not to do this, I'm just pointing out how this can be perceived. With kind regards, Melvyn Sopacua ?php include(not_reflecting_employers_views.txt); ? -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-DOC] Apache 2 installation instructions
On Tue, 29 Oct 2002, Melvyn Sopacua wrote: At 08:43 29-10-2002, Gabor Hojtsy wrote: I think, it would be nice to add information to one place, the documentation about Apache 2 support. 1. It's not production ready Ah yes - but that will contradict greatly, to the best version yet marketing trick the Apache Group is advertising on their front page. We can mention it to users, in the bug db etc. But officially documenting, that Apache 2 is really a beta product, doesn't really express consistency, between the family. I'm aware that this is not a technical reason not to do this, I'm just pointing out how this can be perceived. We can't change the fact that they simply lie about it. But wording it like Apache and PHP are not to be used in production environments should not produce flames from the apache people I think :) Derick -- --- Derick Rethans http://derickrethans.nl/ JDI Media Solutions --[ if you hold a unix shell to your ear, do you hear the c? ]- -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-DOC] Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-DOC] Apache 2 installation instructions
Hallo Melvyn, Tuesday, October 29, 2002, 9:55:31 AM, you wrote: At 08:43 29-10-2002, Gabor Hojtsy wrote: The aspect people complaining about is more a version thingie, e.g. they try to set up php 4.2.3 with apache 2.0.43 and this could not succeed. Is it really necessary to document that apache 2.03x works only with php 4.2.x1, php4.2.x2 and apache 2.04x only with php4.2y1 or php4.2.y2? It should be clearly mentioned, that the support for apache2 isn't production stable ;-) I think, it would be nice to add information to one place, the documentation about Apache 2 support. 1. It's not production ready Ah yes - but that will contradict greatly, to the best version yet marketing trick the Apache Group is advertising on their front page. We can mention it to users, in the bug db etc. But officially documenting, that Apache 2 is really a beta product, doesn't really express consistency, between the family. I thought it more from another point of view: the support for apache2 in php is not production stable ,e.g. the sapi in php :-) Maybe this is due to the fact (?) that apache2 is still beta (I really don't know) but form the php-side point of view, php-versions are not production stable in conjunction with apache2. As Derick said, I don't think this will hurt someone of the apachegroup. [...] but besides this, it would be kind, if just someone could provide some infos from the php-side, like the *.exe names one windows ;-) Friedhelm -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-DOC] Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-DOC] Apache 2 installation instructions
At 11:30 10/29/2002 +0100, Friedhelm Betz wrote:
I think, it would be nice to add information to one place, the
documentation
about Apache 2 support.
1. It's not production ready
Ah yes - but that will contradict greatly, to the best version yet
marketing
trick the Apache Group is advertising on their front page.
We can mention it to users, in the bug db etc. But officially
documenting, that
Apache 2 is really a beta product, doesn't really express consistency,
between
the family.
I thought it more from another point of view: the support for apache2
in php is not production stable ,e.g. the sapi in php :-)
That's exactly what is the perception. I can live with that, but it's not very
stimulating for the people that work on apachefilter.
Since the 'official' release, Apache has changed it's API breaking BC 2 times
already. How can extension developers work on improvement then?
Maybe this is due to the fact (?) that apache2 is still beta (I really
don't know) but form the php-side point of view, php-versions are not
production stable in conjunction with apache2.
Maybe for windows it's the better version - I have no idea.
For unix it's far from that.
As Derick said, I don't
think this will hurt someone of the apachegroup.
Fine with me - we all know better -;)
/MELVYN
void wakeup() {
for(unsigned int cuppajava;drink();cuppajava++);
}
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Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-DOC] Apache 2 installation instructions
1. It's not production ready Ah yes - but that will contradict greatly, to the best version yet marketing trick the Apache Group is advertising on their front page. We can mention it to users, in the bug db etc. But officially documenting, that Apache 2 is really a beta product, doesn't really express consistency, between the family. I'm aware that this is not a technical reason not to do this, I'm just pointing out how this can be perceived. As far as I can see, we should not not put into the PHP documentation that Apache 2 is not production ready, but PHP is not production ready for Apache 2. This is of course shows us in a negative manner, but we need to make our users be aware of the fact that PHP should not be used for production in Apache 2 (as long as this is the case). Goba -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-DOC] Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-DOC] Apache 2 installation instructions
Derick Rethans writes: On Tue, 29 Oct 2002, Gabor Hojtsy wrote: As far as I can see, we should not not put into the PHP documentation that Apache 2 is not production ready, but PHP is not production ready for Apache 2. But it's incorrect :). By saying Do not use Apache 2 and PHP in a production environment you don't blame any of the two projects. I agree with Derick's approach. There's no need to cast dispersions on either Apache2 or PHP. Simply stating _clearly_ that the combination of PHP4 and Apache2 should not be used in a production environment is sufficient. No need to play the blame-game. :) Regards Mike Robinson -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-DOC] RE: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-DOC] Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-DOC]Apache 2 installation instructions
As far as I can see, we should not not put into the PHP documentation that Apache 2 is not production ready, but PHP is not production ready for Apache 2. But it's incorrect :). By saying Do not use Apache 2 and PHP in a production environment you don't blame any of the two projects. I agree with Derick's approach. There's no need to cast dispersions on either Apache2 or PHP. Simply stating _clearly_ that the combination of PHP4 and Apache2 should not be used in a production environment is sufficient. No need to play the blame-game. :) Ack. So then, please add us some info on PHP - Apache2 versions compatibility so we can add the info to the docs. Or is it only Sascha who knows this (apache2 sapi author)? Goba -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-DOC] Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-DOC] Apache 2 installation instructions
I think, it would be nice to add information to one place, the documentation about Apache 2 support. 1. It's not production ready Ah yes - but that will contradict greatly, to the best version yet marketing trick the Apache Group is advertising on their front page. We can mention it to users, in the bug db etc. But officially documenting, that Apache 2 is really a beta product, doesn't really express consistency, between the family. I thought it more from another point of view: the support for apache2 in php is not production stable ,e.g. the sapi in php :-) That's exactly what is the perception. I can live with that, but it's not very stimulating for the people that work on apachefilter. Since the 'official' release, Apache has changed it's API breaking BC 2 times already. How can extension developers work on improvement then? For sure I don't want to blame anybody working on the php sapi for apache2 nor discourage them :-) I believe they do their best... Maybe this is due to the fact (?) that apache2 is still beta (I really don't know) but form the php-side point of view, php-versions are not production stable in conjunction with apache2. Maybe for windows it's the better version - I have no idea. For unix it's far from that. As Derick said, I don't think this will hurt someone of the apachegroup. Fine with me - we all know better -;) ;-) Friedhelm -- +++ GMX - Mail, Messaging more http://www.gmx.net +++ NEU: Mit GMX ins Internet. Rund um die Uhr für 1 ct/ Min. surfen! -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-DOC] Apache 2 installation instructions
I did more work and testing with fastcgi and apache 2, and have php 4.3 running under apache 2. Since it's out of process, no multithread issues which are one of the major issues. I didn't write docs, but there are some in sapi/cgi/README.fastcgi Shane As far as I can see, we should not not put into the PHP documentation that Apache 2 is not production ready, but PHP is not production ready for Apache 2. This is of course shows us in a negative manner, but we need to make our users be aware of the fact that PHP should not be used for production in Apache 2 (as long as this is the case). Goba -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-DOC] Apache 2 installation instructions
| We receive many complaints at [EMAIL PROTECTED] about failures in | setting up PHP with Apache 2. Can somebody please update the | documentation with details on Apache 2 on Linux and Windows, or | provide information for the documentation team to add to the | documentation. It would definitely help users. There are some issues I believe with Apache 2.0 in general and PHP... I can't tell you exactly where the problems are because I haven't setup the testing yet, but from what I gathered at PHPCon there is an issue with Thread Saftey and some of the PHP extensions. Since I have no idea the nature of these failures I can't give much more info... As for the documentation, When I do my install of Apache 2.0 / PHP, I'll be sure to make sure the docs reflect the necessary steps and correct / add anything I found necessary. John -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-DOC] Apache 2 installation instructions
| We receive many complaints at [EMAIL PROTECTED] about failures in | setting up PHP with Apache 2. Can somebody please update the | documentation with details on Apache 2 on Linux and Windows, or | provide information for the documentation team to add to the | documentation. It would definitely help users. There are some issues I believe with Apache 2.0 in general and PHP... I can't tell you exactly where the problems are because I haven't setup the testing yet, but from what I gathered at PHPCon there is an issue with Thread Saftey and some of the PHP extensions. Since I have no idea the nature of these failures I can't give much more info... As for the documentation, When I do my install of Apache 2.0 / PHP, I'll be sure to make sure the docs reflect the necessary steps and correct / add anything I found necessary. On win I tried out the latest 2.043 Apache and a snap-build from snaps.php.net. As I can say, the installation is as usuall for the module and cgi version. The only thing to mention for the Windows-guys is to use sapi/php4apache2.dll and php-cgi.exe for the CGI Version. So far the install with a snap and the latest Apache, nothing about the functionality/technical aspects. It should be clearly mentioned, that the support for apache2 isn't production stable ;-) The aspect people complaining about is more a version thingie, e.g. they try to set up php 4.2.3 with apache 2.0.43 and this could not succeed. Is it really necessary to document that apache 2.03x works only with php 4.2.x1, php4.2.x2 and apache 2.04x only with php4.2y1 or php4.2.y2? For their own sanity people should try the latest php-builds with apache2 to test, IMHO it doesn't make sense to me to setup 4.2.0 with apache2filter.dll :-) Also a point to consider is the name of the correct cgi executable for win: in 4.2.3 it's php.exe the cli-build names php-cli.exe. In the 4.3.0-dev the cli names php.exe and the cgi-version php-cgi.exe. I don't know why the names changed, maybe to confuse the people once more and to give some work for the doc-folks ;-) Anyway: will this be the final names? Friedhelm -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-DOC] Apache 2 installation instructions
The aspect people complaining about is more a version thingie, e.g. they try to set up php 4.2.3 with apache 2.0.43 and this could not succeed. Is it really necessary to document that apache 2.03x works only with php 4.2.x1, php4.2.x2 and apache 2.04x only with php4.2y1 or php4.2.y2? It should be clearly mentioned, that the support for apache2 isn't production stable ;-) I think, it would be nice to add information to one place, the documentation about Apache 2 support. 1. It's not production ready 2. If someone want to set it up, how to do it (Linux, Windows) 3. What PHP versions work with what Apache 2 versions 4. It should be noted, that Apache 1 support is continued ;) Also a point to consider is the name of the correct cgi executable for win: in 4.2.3 it's php.exe the cli-build names php-cli.exe. In the 4.3.0-dev the cli names php.exe and the cgi-version php-cgi.exe. I don't know why the names changed, maybe to confuse the people once more and to give some work for the doc-folks ;-) Doh, it would be nice to stick to some final names ;) NOTE: cca. 80% of the user notes on the Apache setup page deals with Apache 2 installation. We should add verified info to the docs, and delete those notes. There are many sites offering a php4apache2.dll to download. These can harm our users, as they can contain any vulnerable code, which our users download, just because there is no official support/documentation for Apache... http://www.php.net/manual/en/install.apache.php Please keep this in mind, Goba -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
