php-general Digest 12 Mar 2008 08:28:07 -0000 Issue 5343

[php-general-digest-help]

php-general Digest 12 Mar 2008 08:28:07 - Issue 5343

Topics (messages 271313 through 271332):

Re: link with database
271313 by: Shawn McKenzie
271314 by: Shawn McKenzie

Know a JS list serve
271315 by: Skip Evans
271318 by: Greg Donald

Re: Whats faster? simplexml_load_string or simplexml_load_file?
271316 by: Lamonte H

Re: save image in database vs folder
271317 by: Børge Holen

Curl Javascript
271319 by: William Piper
271321 by: Nathan Nobbe
271324 by: chetan rane

Setting a variable inside a function and making it global inside an inner 
function doesn't work?
271320 by: Lamonte H
271322 by: Shawn McKenzie
271323 by: Shawn McKenzie
271326 by: Shawn McKenzie
271327 by: Lamonte H
271330 by: Shawn McKenzie
271331 by: Lamonte H

PHP  Ajax progress bar
271325 by: Shelley
271328 by: Wolf
271329 by: Wolf
271332 by: Thijs Lensselink

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--
---BeginMessage---
Sofia Jacob (CA) wrote:
 Hi,
 
 I want to create a link that get the name and the link from the database.
 
 The problem is that I get the bullets created with li but not the link, 
 here is my code and the result:
 
  
 
 ?php
 function do_html_URL($url, $name)
 {
   // output URL as link and br
 ?
   a href=?=$url??=$name?/abr
 ?php
 }
 
 ? 
 
 function display_categories($cat_array)
 {
   if (!is_array($cat_array))
   {
  echo No hay categorías actualmente disponiblesbr;
  return;
   }
   echo ul;
   foreach ($cat_array as $row)
   {
   $url = show_cat.php?Categorie_ID=.($row[Categorie_ID]);
$title = $row[Catname];
echo li;
do_html_URL($url, $title); 
   }
   echo /ul;
   echo hr;
 } 
 
 function get_categories()
 {
// Petición a la base de datos de una lista de categorías
$conn = db_connect();
$query = SELECT Categorie_ID, Catname
FROM categories;
$result = @mysql_query($query);
if (!$result)
  return false;
$num_cats = @mysql_num_rows($result);
if ($num_cats ==0)
   return false;
$result = db_result_to_array($result); //db_fns.php
return $result;
 }
 
 
   $cat_array = get_categories(); 
   display_categories($cat_array);
 
 
 
 
Shorts tags are not enabled maybe?

use ?php and ?  not ?=.

-Shawn
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Shawn McKenzie wrote:
 Sofia Jacob (CA) wrote:
 Hi,

 I want to create a link that get the name and the link from the database.

 The problem is that I get the bullets created with li but not the link, 
 here is my code and the result:

  

 ?php
 function do_html_URL($url, $name)
 {
   // output URL as link and br
 ?
   a href=?=$url??=$name?/abr
 ?php
 }

 ? 

 function display_categories($cat_array)
 {
   if (!is_array($cat_array))
   {
  echo No hay categorías actualmente disponiblesbr;
  return;
   }
   echo ul;
   foreach ($cat_array as $row)
   {
   $url = show_cat.php?Categorie_ID=.($row[Categorie_ID]);
$title = $row[Catname];
echo li;
do_html_URL($url, $title); 
   }
   echo /ul;
   echo hr;
 } 

 function get_categories()
 {
// Petición a la base de datos de una lista de categorías
$conn = db_connect();
$query = SELECT Categorie_ID, Catname
FROM categories;
$result = @mysql_query($query);
if (!$result)
  return false;
$num_cats = @mysql_num_rows($result);
if ($num_cats ==0)
   return false;
$result = db_result_to_array($result); //db_fns.php
return $result;
 }


   $cat_array = get_categories(); 
   display_categories($cat_array);




 Shorts tags are not enabled maybe?
 
 use ?php and ?  not ?=.
 
 -Shawn
Also, you need to close your li with /li after.  That should be
fixed, but you can confirm by looking at your page source.  If you see:

lia href=/abr

Then short tags are not enabled.

-Shawn
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---

Hey all,

I've been Googling trying to find a JavaScript 
list serve to post a question to, but have been, 
embarrassingly, unable to find one.


Anyone on one they'd recommend or know of one?

Thanks

*sigh*

--
Skip Evans
Big Sky Penguin, LLC
503 S Baldwin St, #1
Madison, WI 53703
608-250-2720
http://bigskypenguin.com
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Check out PHPenguin, a lightweight and versatile
PHP/MySQL, AJAX  DHTML development framework.
http://phpenguin.bigskypenguin.com/
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
On 3/11/08, Skip Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hey all,

  I've been Googling trying to find a JavaScript
  list serve to post a question to, but have been,
  embarrassingly, unable to find one.

  Anyone on one they'd recommend or know of one?

Not a list, but the 

Re: [PHP] PHP Ajax progress bar

[Thijs Lensselink]

Quoting Shelley [EMAIL PROTECTED]:


Hi all,

I'm searching some file upload progress bar code.
But no good result was found. :(
So is there anybody please be kind enough to show some code here?

Great thanks.

--
Regard,
Shelley (http://phparch.cn)

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To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php


You can try searching the archives. Rasmus had an example a long time ago.
Although it requires APC to be installed. Maybe it's interesting.

Found it:
Example : http://progphp.com/upload.php
Source : http://progphp.com/upload.phps

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RE: [PHP] PHP Ajax progress bar

[Mr Webber]

I haven't' tried this yet ... so I would appreciate your feedback.

-Original Message-
From: Thijs Lensselink [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 4:28 AM
To: php-general@lists.php.net
Subject: Re: [PHP] PHP  Ajax progress bar

Quoting Shelley [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 Hi all,

 I'm searching some file upload progress bar code.
 But no good result was found. :(
 So is there anybody please be kind enough to show some code here?

 Great thanks.

 --
 Regard,
 Shelley (http://phparch.cn)

 -- 
 PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/)
 To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php

You can try searching the archives. Rasmus had an example a long time ago.
Although it requires APC to be installed. Maybe it's interesting.

Found it:
Example : http://progphp.com/upload.php
Source : http://progphp.com/upload.phps

-- 
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RE: [PHP] PHP Ajax progress bar

[Thijs Lensselink]

Quoting Mr Webber [EMAIL PROTECTED]:


I haven't' tried this yet ... so I would appreciate your feedback.

-Original Message-
From: Thijs Lensselink [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 4:28 AM
To: php-general@lists.php.net
Subject: Re: [PHP] PHP  Ajax progress bar

Quoting Shelley [EMAIL PROTECTED]:


Hi all,

I'm searching some file upload progress bar code.
But no good result was found. :(
So is there anybody please be kind enough to show some code here?

Great thanks.

--
Regard,
Shelley (http://phparch.cn)

--
PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/)
To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php


You can try searching the archives. Rasmus had an example a long time ago.
Although it requires APC to be installed. Maybe it's interesting.

Found it:
Example : http://progphp.com/upload.php
Source : http://progphp.com/upload.phps

--


Pls don't top post.

If you want to know if it works. Go ahead!
Copy paste the code and give it a try.


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[PHP] Parameter

[John Comerford]

Hi Folks,

I am thinking of putting together a class to handle passing parameters 
to a class. Basically when you define a class you would define your 
class to extend the parameter class.
The parameter class would be JSON compliant so in the end when you call 
a class it you could pass the parameters as a JSON string.

(rough) eg.

myClass(label:test,title:this is text);

the parameter class would allow you to do something like:
echo  myClass-get(label);

The advantages are:
- You don't have to have a declaration for every variable used within 
your class
- I could make the parameter class case independent (I know I need a 
flame suit for this but case dependency get on my nerves)
- I can wrap a lot of functionality into the parameter class, stuff like 
'ifNotNull(label) ...'


So far disadvantages are:
- Eclipse etc.  has code completion, which means all the parameters you 
pass to a function can be presented to the developer as part of  code 
completion


I'd like to know:
- Have any of you guys already done something like I am talking about.
- As developers do you reckon losing code completion is worth the 
advantages of a parameter class

- Have I overlooked something major ?

Let me know what you think,
 JC


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Re: [PHP] Know a JS list serve

[Frank Arensmeier]

11 mar 2008 kl. 22.39 skrev Skip Evans:


Hey all,

I've been Googling trying to find a JavaScript list serve to post a  
question to, but have been, embarrassingly, unable to find one.


Anyone on one they'd recommend or know of one?

Thanks

*sigh*



Evolt has a rather good list (not too much traffic, but still ...)

http://lists.evolt.org/mailman/listinfo/javascript

//frank

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Re: [PHP] PHP Ajax progress bar

[Shelley]

Thijs Lensselink 写道:

Quoting Mr Webber [EMAIL PROTECTED]:


I haven't' tried this yet ... so I would appreciate your feedback.

-Original Message-
From: Thijs Lensselink [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 4:28 AM
To: php-general@lists.php.net
Subject: Re: [PHP] PHP  Ajax progress bar

Quoting Shelley [EMAIL PROTECTED]:


Hi all,

I'm searching some file upload progress bar code.
But no good result was found. :(
So is there anybody please be kind enough to show some code here?

Great thanks.

--
Regard,
Shelley (http://phparch.cn)

--
PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/)
To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php


You can try searching the archives. Rasmus had an example a long time 
ago.

Although it requires APC to be installed. Maybe it's interesting.

Found it:
Example : http://progphp.com/upload.php
Source : http://progphp.com/upload.phps

--


Pls don't top post.

If you want to know if it works. Go ahead!
Copy paste the code and give it a try.



I don't think it works.

I tried.
The screen always said 0%, 0 of 0 byte until the file is uploaded.
Is that what you mean progress bar?

--
Regards,
Shelley (http://phparch.cn)

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Re: [PHP] PHP Ajax progress bar

[Thijs Lensselink]

Quoting Shelley [EMAIL PROTECTED]:


Thijs Lensselink 写道:

Quoting Mr Webber [EMAIL PROTECTED]:


I haven't' tried this yet ... so I would appreciate your feedback.

-Original Message-
From: Thijs Lensselink [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 4:28 AM
To: php-general@lists.php.net
Subject: Re: [PHP] PHP  Ajax progress bar

Quoting Shelley [EMAIL PROTECTED]:


Hi all,

I'm searching some file upload progress bar code.
But no good result was found. :(
So is there anybody please be kind enough to show some code here?

Great thanks.

--
Regard,
Shelley (http://phparch.cn)

--
PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/)
To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php


You can try searching the archives. Rasmus had an example a long time ago.
Although it requires APC to be installed. Maybe it's interesting.

Found it:
Example : http://progphp.com/upload.php
Source : http://progphp.com/upload.phps

--


Pls don't top post.

If you want to know if it works. Go ahead!
Copy paste the code and give it a try.



I don't think it works.

I tried.
The screen always said 0%, 0 of 0 byte until the file is uploaded.
Is that what you mean progress bar?

--
Regards,
Shelley (http://phparch.cn)



Do you have all the yui files? and APC enabled?
I tried it some time ago and it worked. But i did  have to set

apc.rfc1867 = on

in php.ini to make it work. Forgot to mention that one.




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Re: [PHP] Comparing files

[Thijs Lensselink]

Quoting mathieu leddet [EMAIL PROTECTED]:


Hi all,

I have a simple question : how can I ensure that 2 files are identical ?

How about this ?

8--

function files_identical($path1, $path2) {

  return (file_get_contents($path1) == file_get_contents($path2));

}

8--

Note that I would like to compare any type of files (text and binary).

Thanks for any help,


--
Mathieu



You could use md5_file for this. Something like:

function files_identical($path1, $path2) {

  return (md5_file($path1) == md5_file($path2));

}


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Re: [PHP] Comparing files

[Stut]

mathieu leddet wrote:

I have a simple question : how can I ensure that 2 files are identical ?

How about this ?

8--

function files_identical($path1, $path2) {

  return (file_get_contents($path1) == file_get_contents($path2));

}

8--

Note that I would like to compare any type of files (text and binary).


http://php.net/md5_file

-Stut

--
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Re: [PHP] Comparing files

[Aschwin Wesselius]

mathieu leddet wrote:

Hi all,

I have a simple question : how can I ensure that 2 files are identical ?

How about this ?

8--

function files_identical($path1, $path2) {

  return (file_get_contents($path1) == file_get_contents($path2));

}

I would say, use a md5 checksum on both files:


function files_identical($path1, $path2) {

 return (md5(file_get_contents($path1)) === md5(file_get_contents($path2)));

}



--

Aschwin Wesselius

/'What you would like to be done to you, do that to the other'/

RE: [PHP] Comparing files

[Edward Kay]

 -Original Message-
 From: mathieu leddet [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: 12 March 2008 11:04
 To: php-general@lists.php.net
 Subject: [PHP] Comparing files


 Hi all,

 I have a simple question : how can I ensure that 2 files are identical ?

 How about this ?

 8--

 function files_identical($path1, $path2) {

   return (file_get_contents($path1) == file_get_contents($path2));

 }

 8--

 Note that I would like to compare any type of files (text and binary).

 Thanks for any help,


Depending upon the size of the files, I would expect it would be quicker to
compare a hash of each file.

Edward


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[PHP] Comparing files

[mathieu leddet]

Hi all,

I have a simple question : how can I ensure that 2 files are identical ?

How about this ?

8--

function files_identical($path1, $path2) {

  return (file_get_contents($path1) == file_get_contents($path2));

}

8--

Note that I would like to compare any type of files (text and binary).

Thanks for any help,


--
Mathieu

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RE: [PHP] Comparing files

[mathieu leddet]

Yes!

Thanks a lot, md5_file suits perfectly well my needs.
I've read that 'exec'ing the md5 command is faster... I'll see when performance 
on large files will become an issue.

Thanks again,

--
Mathieu

-Message d'origine-
De : Thijs Lensselink [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Envoyé : Wednesday, March 12, 2008 12:09 PM
À : php-general@lists.php.net
Objet : Re: [PHP] Comparing files

Quoting mathieu leddet [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 Hi all,

 I have a simple question : how can I ensure that 2 files are identical ?

 How about this ?

 8--

 function files_identical($path1, $path2) {

   return (file_get_contents($path1) == file_get_contents($path2));

 }

 8--

 Note that I would like to compare any type of files (text and binary).

 Thanks for any help,


 --
 Mathieu


You could use md5_file for this. Something like:

function files_identical($path1, $path2) {

   return (md5_file($path1) == md5_file($path2));

}


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RE: [PHP] Comparing files

[Per Jessen]

mathieu leddet wrote:

 Yes!
 
 Thanks a lot, md5_file suits perfectly well my needs.
 I've read that 'exec'ing the md5 command is faster... I'll see when
 performance on large files will become an issue.
 

Doing a diff on the files would make absolutely certain - an md5
checksum is not. 


/Per Jessen, Zürich


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RE: [PHP] Comparing files

[Andrés Robinet]

 -Original Message-
 From: Edward Kay [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 7:13 AM
 To: mathieu leddet; php-general@lists.php.net
 Subject: RE: [PHP] Comparing files
 
 
 
  -Original Message-
  From: mathieu leddet [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Sent: 12 March 2008 11:04
  To: php-general@lists.php.net
  Subject: [PHP] Comparing files
 
 
  Hi all,
 
  I have a simple question : how can I ensure that 2 files are identical ?
 
  How about this ?
 
  8--
 
  function files_identical($path1, $path2) {
 
return (file_get_contents($path1) == file_get_contents($path2));
 
  }
 
  8--
 
  Note that I would like to compare any type of files (text and binary).
 
  Thanks for any help,
 
 
 Depending upon the size of the files, I would expect it would be quicker to
 compare a hash of each file.
 
 Edward
 

I don't understand how comparing hashes can be faster than comparing contents,
except for big files for which you will likely hit the memory limit first and
for files who only differ from each other at the very end of them, so the
comparison will only be halted then. If the file sizes vary too much, however, a
mixed strategy would be the winner; and certainly, you will want to store path
names and calculated hashes in a database of some kind to save yourself from
hogging the server each time (yeah, CPU and RAM are cheap, but not unlimited
resources).

Comparing hashes means that a hash must be calculated for files A and B and the
related overhead will increase according to the file size (right or wrong?).
Comparing the file contents will have an associated overhead for buffering and
moving the file contents into memory, and it's also a linear operation (strings
are compared byte to byte till there's a difference). So... why not doing the
following?

1 - Compare file sizes (this is just a property stored in the file system
structures, right?). If sizes are different, the files are different. Otherwise
move to step 2.
2 - If the file sizes are smaller than certain size (up to you to find the
optimal file size), just compare contents through, say, file_get_contents.
Otherwise move to step 3.
3 - Grab some random bytes at the beginning, at the middle and at the end of
both files and compare them. If they are different, the files are different.
Otherwise move to step 4.
4 - If you reach this point, you are doomed. You have 2 big files that you must
compare and they are apparently equal so far. Comparing contents will be over
killing if at all possible, so you will want to generate hashes and compare
them. Run md5_file on both files (it would be great if you have, say, file A's
hash already calculated and stored in a DB or data file) and compare results.

It is always up to what kind of files you are dealing with, if the files are
often different only at the end of the stream, you may want to skip step 2. But
this is what I would generally do.

By the way, md5 is a great hashing function, but it is not bullet-proof,
collisions may happen (though it's much better than crc32, for example). So, you
may also think of how critical is to you to have some false positives (some
files that are considered equal by md5_file and they are not) and probably use
some diff-like solution instead of md5_file. Anyway, having compared sizes and
random bytes (steps 1 through 3), it's very likely that md5_file will catch it
if two files are different in just a few bytes.

Regards,

Rob

Andrés Robinet | Lead Developer | BESTPLACE CORPORATION 
5100 Bayview Drive 206, Royal Lauderdale Landings, Fort Lauderdale, FL 33308 |
TEL 954-607-4207 | FAX 954-337-2695 | 
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  | MSN Chat: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  |  SKYPE: bestplace |
 Web: bestplace.biz  | Web: seo-diy.com




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[PHP] setcookie

[Tim Daff]

Hi,

I am learning PHP, I am trying to set a simple cookie:

html
head
titleCookies/title
/head
body

?php setcookie('test', 45, time()+(60*60*24*7)); ?

/body
/html

Firefox is returning this error:

Warning: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by  
(output started at /Users/Daff/Sites/php_sandbox/cookies.php:7) in / 
Users/Daff/Sites/php_sandbox/cookies.php on line 7


I have googled this and can't find out what I am doing wrong.  Any  
help you could give me would be much appreciated.


Tim

Re: [PHP] setcookie

[Jean-Christophe Roux]

body

?php setcookie('test', 45, time()+(60*60*24*7)); ?

from the doc:
Cookies are part of the HTTP header, so   setcookie() must be called before 
any output is sent to   the browser.  This is the same limitation that header() 
  has.
http://ca.php.net/cookies


- Original Message 
From: Tim Daff [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: php-general@lists.php.net
Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 8:48:59 AM
Subject: [PHP] setcookie

Hi,

I am learning PHP, I am trying to set a simple cookie:

html
head
titleCookies/title
/head
body

?php setcookie('test', 45, time()+(60*60*24*7)); ?

/body
/html

Firefox is returning this error:

Warning: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by  
(output started at /Users/Daff/Sites/php_sandbox/cookies.php:7) in / 
Users/Daff/Sites/php_sandbox/cookies.php on line 7

I have googled this and can't find out what I am doing wrong.  Any  
help you could give me would be much appreciated.

Tim





  

Be a better friend, newshound, and 
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  
http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ 

Re: [PHP] setcookie

[Hiep Nguyen]

On Wed, 12 Mar 2008, Tim Daff wrote:


Hi,

I am learning PHP, I am trying to set a simple cookie:

html
head
titleCookies/title
/head
body
?php setcookie('test', 45, 
time()+(60*60*24*7)); ?

/body
/html

Firefox is returning this error:

Warning: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output 
started at /Users/Daff/Sites/php_sandbox/cookies.php:7) in 
/Users/Daff/Sites/php_sandbox/cookies.php on line 7


I have googled this and can't find out what I am doing wrong.  Any help you 
could give me would be much appreciated.


Tim


setcookie from php.net states the following:

setcookie() defines a cookie to be sent along with the rest of the HTTP 
headers. Like other headers, cookies must be sent before any output from 
your script (this is a protocol restriction). This requires that you place 
calls to this function prior to any output, including html and head 
tags as well as any whitespace


call setcookie before you output ANY THING, even error

hope that helps.
t. hiep

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[PHP] setcookie

[Tim Daff]

Thank's for your help Zareef, Hiep, Shiplu and Jean-Christophe

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Re: [PHP] Know a JS list serve

[Jason Pruim]

On Mar 12, 2008, at 4:14 AM, Frank Arensmeier wrote:


11 mar 2008 kl. 22.39 skrev Skip Evans:


Hey all,

I've been Googling trying to find a JavaScript list serve to post a  
question to, but have been, embarrassingly, unable to find one.


Anyone on one they'd recommend or know of one?

Thanks

*sigh*



Evolt has a rather good list (not too much traffic, but still ...)

http://lists.evolt.org/mailman/listinfo/javascript



Also, Apple has a javascript list... It's the Dashboard Developers  
list... But the Widgets are nothing more then HTML/CSS/XML/Javascript/ 
PHP type webpages designed for a specific use... Lots of knowledgeable  
javascript people there...


http://lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/dashboard-dev/
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Raoset Inc.
Technology Manager
MQC Specialist
3251 132nd ave
Holland, MI, 49424-9337
www.raoset.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]




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RE: [PHP] Comparing files

[Edward Kay]

 -Original Message-
 From: Andrés Robinet [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: 12 March 2008 12:33
 To: 'Edward Kay'; 'mathieu leddet'; php-general@lists.php.net
 Subject: RE: [PHP] Comparing files


  -Original Message-
  From: Edward Kay [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 7:13 AM
  To: mathieu leddet; php-general@lists.php.net
  Subject: RE: [PHP] Comparing files
 
 
 
   -Original Message-
   From: mathieu leddet [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
   Sent: 12 March 2008 11:04
   To: php-general@lists.php.net
   Subject: [PHP] Comparing files
  
  
   Hi all,
  
   I have a simple question : how can I ensure that 2 files are
 identical ?
  
   How about this ?
  
   8--
  
   function files_identical($path1, $path2) {
  
 return (file_get_contents($path1) == file_get_contents($path2));
  
   }
  
   8--
  
   Note that I would like to compare any type of files (text and binary).
  
   Thanks for any help,
  
 
  Depending upon the size of the files, I would expect it would
 be quicker to
  compare a hash of each file.
 
  Edward
 

 I don't understand how comparing hashes can be faster than
 comparing contents,
 except for big files for which you will likely hit the memory
 limit first and
 for files who only differ from each other at the very end of them, so the
 comparison will only be halted then. If the file sizes vary too
 much, however, a
 mixed strategy would be the winner; and certainly, you will want
 to store path
 names and calculated hashes in a database of some kind to save
 yourself from
 hogging the server each time (yeah, CPU and RAM are cheap, but
 not unlimited
 resources).

 Comparing hashes means that a hash must be calculated for files A
 and B and the
 related overhead will increase according to the file size (right
 or wrong?).
 Comparing the file contents will have an associated overhead for
 buffering and
 moving the file contents into memory, and it's also a linear
 operation (strings
 are compared byte to byte till there's a difference). So... why
 not doing the
 following?

 1 - Compare file sizes (this is just a property stored in the file system
 structures, right?). If sizes are different, the files are
 different. Otherwise
 move to step 2.
 2 - If the file sizes are smaller than certain size (up to you to find the
 optimal file size), just compare contents through, say, file_get_contents.
 Otherwise move to step 3.
 3 - Grab some random bytes at the beginning, at the middle and at
 the end of
 both files and compare them. If they are different, the files are
 different.
 Otherwise move to step 4.
 4 - If you reach this point, you are doomed. You have 2 big files
 that you must
 compare and they are apparently equal so far. Comparing contents
 will be over
 killing if at all possible, so you will want to generate hashes
 and compare
 them. Run md5_file on both files (it would be great if you have,
 say, file A's
 hash already calculated and stored in a DB or data file) and
 compare results.

 It is always up to what kind of files you are dealing with, if
 the files are
 often different only at the end of the stream, you may want to
 skip step 2. But
 this is what I would generally do.

 By the way, md5 is a great hashing function, but it is not bullet-proof,
 collisions may happen (though it's much better than crc32, for
 example). So, you
 may also think of how critical is to you to have some false
 positives (some
 files that are considered equal by md5_file and they are not) and
 probably use
 some diff-like solution instead of md5_file. Anyway, having
 compared sizes and
 random bytes (steps 1 through 3), it's very likely that md5_file
 will catch it
 if two files are different in just a few bytes.


Agreed. In by first reply, I meant that hashes would likely be quicker/more
memory friendly when handling larger files, but this is just a hunch - I
haven't benchmarked anything. It was really meant to give the OP other
possibilities to look into.

Edward


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Re: [PHP] setcookie

[Richard Heyes]

Firefox is returning this error:

Warning: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by 
(output started at /Users/Daff/Sites/php_sandbox/cookies.php:7) in 
/Users/Daff/Sites/php_sandbox/cookies.php on line 7


You must use set cookie() before you send any output to the browser, 
including whitespace.


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Re: [PHP] setcookie

[Wolf]

Tim Daff wrote:

Hi,

I am learning PHP, I am trying to set a simple cookie:

html
head
titleCookies/title
/head
body
   
?php setcookie('test', 45, time()+(60*60*24*7)); ?
   
/body

/html

Firefox is returning this error:

Warning: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by 
(output started at /Users/Daff/Sites/php_sandbox/cookies.php:7) in 
/Users/Daff/Sites/php_sandbox/cookies.php on line 7


I have googled this and can't find out what I am doing wrong.  Any help 
you could give me would be much appreciated.


Tim


 ?php setcookie('test', 45, time()+(60*60*24*7)); ?
 html
 head
 titleCookies/title
 /head
 body



 /body
 /html

Cookies HAVE to be at the top of the page...  You output ANYTHING else 
and you get the error you wound up getting.


Wolf


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RE: [PHP] Comparing files

[Thijs Lensselink]

Quoting Andrés Robinet [EMAIL PROTECTED]:


-Original Message-
From: Edward Kay [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 7:13 AM
To: mathieu leddet; php-general@lists.php.net
Subject: RE: [PHP] Comparing files



 -Original Message-
 From: mathieu leddet [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: 12 March 2008 11:04
 To: php-general@lists.php.net
 Subject: [PHP] Comparing files


 Hi all,

 I have a simple question : how can I ensure that 2 files are identical ?

 How about this ?

 8--

 function files_identical($path1, $path2) {

   return (file_get_contents($path1) == file_get_contents($path2));

 }

 8--

 Note that I would like to compare any type of files (text and binary).

 Thanks for any help,


Depending upon the size of the files, I would expect it would be quicker to
compare a hash of each file.

Edward



I don't understand how comparing hashes can be faster than comparing  
 contents,

except for big files for which you will likely hit the memory limit first and
for files who only differ from each other at the very end of them, so the
comparison will only be halted then. If the file sizes vary too   
much, however, a
mixed strategy would be the winner; and certainly, you will want to   
store path

names and calculated hashes in a database of some kind to save yourself from
hogging the server each time (yeah, CPU and RAM are cheap, but not unlimited
resources).


I must agree that a mixed solution would be best here.

Comparing hashes means that a hash must be calculated for files A   
and B and the

related overhead will increase according to the file size (right or wrong?).
Comparing the file contents will have an associated overhead for   
buffering and
moving the file contents into memory, and it's also a linear   
operation (strings

are compared byte to byte till there's a difference). So... why not doing the
following?

1 - Compare file sizes (this is just a property stored in the file system
structures, right?). If sizes are different, the files are   
different. Otherwise

move to step 2.


I like this idea. It's fast and will catch most differences.


2 - If the file sizes are smaller than certain size (up to you to find the
optimal file size), just compare contents through, say, file_get_contents.
Otherwise move to step 3.
3 - Grab some random bytes at the beginning, at the middle and at the end of
both files and compare them. If they are different, the files are different.
Otherwise move to step 4.


Not sure about this one. Will all the file operations not create to  
much overhead if you are dealing with large files?


4 - If you reach this point, you are doomed. You have 2 big files   
that you must

compare and they are apparently equal so far. Comparing contents will be over
killing if at all possible, so you will want to generate hashes and compare
them. Run md5_file on both files (it would be great if you have,   
say, file A's

hash already calculated and stored in a DB or data file) and compare results.

It is always up to what kind of files you are dealing with, if the files are
often different only at the end of the stream, you may want to skip   
step 2. But

this is what I would generally do.

By the way, md5 is a great hashing function, but it is not bullet-proof,
collisions may happen (though it's much better than crc32, for   
example). So, you


MD5 is for sure not bullet-proof. You could always switch to sha1_file for a
bit more security.


may also think of how critical is to you to have some false positives (some
files that are considered equal by md5_file and they are not) and   
probably use
some diff-like solution instead of md5_file. Anyway, having compared  
 sizes and
random bytes (steps 1 through 3), it's very likely that md5_file   
will catch it

if two files are different in just a few bytes.

Regards,

Rob

Andrés Robinet | Lead Developer | BESTPLACE CORPORATION 5100 Bayview  
Drive 206, Royal Lauderdale Landings, Fort Lauderdale,  FL 33308 |

TEL 954-607-4207 | FAX 954-337-2695 |
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  | MSN Chat: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  |  SKYPE:  
 bestplace |

 Web: bestplace.biz  | Web: seo-diy.com




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Re: [PHP] setcookie

[Shiplu]

Even you cant put a space before ?php tag.

the following code will throw the same error.
| ?php
| setcookie();
| ?
Because I prepend  a space for each line

But this will be okay
|?php
| setcookie();
| ?

This is a very common mistake and very very hard to find.


On Wed, Mar 12, 2008 at 7:53 AM, Jean-Christophe Roux [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 body
 
 ?php setcookie('test', 45, time()+(60*60*24*7)); ?

 from the doc:
 Cookies are part of the HTTP header, so   setcookie() must be called
 before any output is sent to   the browser.  This is the same limitation
 that header()   has.
 http://ca.php.net/cookies


 - Original Message 
 From: Tim Daff [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: php-general@lists.php.net
 Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 8:48:59 AM
 Subject: [PHP] setcookie

 Hi,

 I am learning PHP, I am trying to set a simple cookie:

 html
head
titleCookies/title
/head
body

?php setcookie('test', 45, time()+(60*60*24*7)); ?

/body
 /html

 Firefox is returning this error:

 Warning: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by
 (output started at /Users/Daff/Sites/php_sandbox/cookies.php:7) in /
 Users/Daff/Sites/php_sandbox/cookies.php on line 7

 I have googled this and can't find out what I am doing wrong.  Any
 help you could give me would be much appreciated.

 Tim






  
 
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Re: [PHP] setcookie

[Ray Hauge]

Wolf wrote:



Tim Daff wrote:

Hi,

I am learning PHP, I am trying to set a simple cookie:

html
head
titleCookies/title
/head
body
   ?php setcookie('test', 45, time()+(60*60*24*7)); ?
   /body
/html

Firefox is returning this error:

Warning: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by 
(output started at /Users/Daff/Sites/php_sandbox/cookies.php:7) in 
/Users/Daff/Sites/php_sandbox/cookies.php on line 7


I have googled this and can't find out what I am doing wrong.  Any 
help you could give me would be much appreciated.


Tim


 ?php setcookie('test', 45, time()+(60*60*24*7)); ?
 html
 head
 titleCookies/title
 /head
 body



 /body
 /html

Cookies HAVE to be at the top of the page...  You output ANYTHING else 
and you get the error you wound up getting.


Wolf




If you're not sure if data has already been sent to the client (I ran 
into an included file having a space after ?) you can use 
http://us3.php.net/manual/en/function.headers-sent.php before you call 
setcookie();


If nothing else it'll help with diagnosing this error when you run into 
it again.


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www.primateapplications.com

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Re: [PHP] setcookie

[Zareef Ahmed]

As a dirty trick you can put following line on the top of your script,
it will work
ob_start();

But you should try to know why it is not working, and what exactly
ob_start will impact your application and What is the thing called
Output Buffering.

Zareef Ahmed

On 3/12/08, Hiep Nguyen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On Wed, 12 Mar 2008, Tim Daff wrote:

  Hi,
 
  I am learning PHP, I am trying to set a simple cookie:
 
  html
head
titleCookies/title
/head
body
?php setcookie('test', 45,
  time()+(60*60*24*7)); ?
/body
  /html
 
  Firefox is returning this error:
 
  Warning: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by
 (output
  started at /Users/Daff/Sites/php_sandbox/cookies.php:7) in
  /Users/Daff/Sites/php_sandbox/cookies.php on line 7
 
  I have googled this and can't find out what I am doing wrong.  Any help
 you
  could give me would be much appreciated.
 
  Tim


 setcookie from php.net states the following:

 setcookie() defines a cookie to be sent along with the rest of the HTTP
 headers. Like other headers, cookies must be sent before any output from
 your script (this is a protocol restriction). This requires that you place
 calls to this function prior to any output, including html and head
 tags as well as any whitespace

 call setcookie before you output ANY THING, even error

 hope that helps.
 t. hiep


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http://www.zareef.net
A PHP Developer in India

[PHP] What's wrong the __autoload()?

[Gustavo Narea]

Hello all,

I'm wondering what's wrong with the use of __autoload(), since I see that
projects like the Zend Framework don't use it and prefer to require_once
each required file.

Thanks in advance.
-- 
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http://gustavonarea.net/

Get GNU/Linux! http://www.getgnulinux.org/


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[PHP] best practices in error handling in PHP

[It Maq]

Hi,

I want to know what is the best solution for handling errors. After reading 
some documents dealing with the subject, i have three options:
* Using a class for error handling
* Using PEAR error object
* Using try and catch exceptions

The error handling i want to implement will be done in a big application that 
was developed from the beginning without any concern about error handling.

Thank you




  

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Re: [PHP] What's wrong the __autoload()?

[Richard Heyes]

I'm wondering what's wrong with the use of __autoload(), since I see that
projects like the Zend Framework don't use it and prefer to require_once
each required file.


Things that happen without you explicitly causing them (ie require() et 
al) can lead to confusion.


For example a junior developer who doesn't know of its existence  and is 
new to a job is less likely to admit ignorance and ask how a class is 
being defined when __autoload() is being used.


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[PHP] mail function and headers

[Alain Roger]

Hi,

i'm playing a little bit with the mail function from PHP 5.2.4 and email
headers.
here is a snippet of my code:

 $headers = 'From: '.$email. .$fromname.
 \r\n.'Reply-To:'.$email.\r\n.'X-Mailer: PHP/' . phpversion();

if (mail($to, $subject, $body,$headers))

{

...

}


where:
$fromname = $name.,.$firstname;

when i run this code, and click on button reply-to it works well... i mean
i reply to end user email address ($email).
but i can see in my FROM-TO header space

 From: correct_email_address [mailto:[EMAIL 
 PROTECTED]@including_partial_domain_name_of_mywebhosting]



correct_email_address is referencing to $email without problem.
but the problem comes from [EMAIL PROTECTED]
_partial_domain_name_of_mywebhosting.
in fact, before @ i get a crazy value and why the rest (after @) i get my
webhosting domain name ?

can i turn this strange email address to the same as $email, in order to
have From : [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] ?

thanks a lot,

Alain

Windows XP SP2
PostgreSQL 8.2.4 / MS SQL server 2005
Apache 2.2.4
PHP 5.2.4
C# 2005-2008

Re: [PHP] best practices in error handling in PHP

[Richard Heyes]

It Maq wrote:


I want to know what is the best solution for handling errors. After
reading some documents dealing with the subject, i have three
options:

  * Using a class for error handling

No point IMO when you could use either the below two.

  * Using PEAR error object

I wouldn't advise it.


 * Using try and catch exceptions


In a new app, or (particularly) if you're adapting existing code, this 
is the one I'd recommend.



The error handling i want to implement will be done in a big
application that was developed from the beginning without any concern
about error handling.


Aren't they all? :-/

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Re: [PHP] best practices in error handling in PHP

[Christoph Boget]

  I want to know what is the best solution for handling errors. After reading 
 some
 documents dealing with the subject, i have three options:
  * Using a class for error handling
  * Using PEAR error object
  * Using try and catch exceptions
  The error handling i want to implement will be done in a big application 
 that was
 developed from the beginning without any concern about error handling.

It seems to me that 1 and 3 aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.  I
believe that you can use your own error classes in php's try/catch
functionality.  As for PEAR's error object, unless you are using PEAR
elsewhere in your app I'm not sure it would be worthwhile to just use
this very small piece.

This is all just IMO.

thnx,
Chris

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Re: [PHP] PHP Ajax progress bar

[Philip Thompson]

On Mar 12, 2008, at 5:02 AM, Thijs Lensselink wrote:


Thijs Lensselink 写道:


How do you pronounce your name?


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Re: [PHP] best practices in error handling in PHP

[It Maq]

Yes you are right i can use trigger_error that will use the function that 
handles errors from my class.

Thanks

- Original Message 
From: Christoph Boget [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: It Maq [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: php-general@lists.php.net
Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 10:31:07 AM
Subject: Re: [PHP] best practices in error handling in PHP

  I want to know what is the best solution for handling errors. After reading 
 some
 documents dealing with the subject, i have three options:
  * Using a class for error handling
  * Using PEAR error object
  * Using try and catch exceptions
  The error handling i want to implement will be done in a big application 
 that was
 developed from the beginning without any concern about error handling.

It seems to me that 1 and 3 aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.  I
believe that you can use your own error classes in php's try/catch
functionality.  As for PEAR's error object, unless you are using PEAR
elsewhere in your app I'm not sure it would be worthwhile to just use
this very small piece.

This is all just IMO.

thnx,
Chris






  

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Re: [PHP] best practices in error handling in PHP

[Zoltán Németh]

2008. 03. 12, szerda keltezéssel 07.18-kor It Maq ezt írta:
 Hi,
 
 I want to know what is the best solution for handling errors. After reading 
 some documents dealing with the subject, i have three options:
 * Using a class for error handling
 * Using PEAR error object
 * Using try and catch exceptions

I would go for try/catch, define different exception classes if
different actions need to be taken, catch them based on their class to
take appropriate action, and catch anything else in the top layer.

greets,
Zoltán Németh

 
 The error handling i want to implement will be done in a big application that 
 was developed from the beginning without any concern about error handling.
 
 Thank you
 
 
 
 
   
 
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Re: [PHP] best practices in error handling in PHP

[It Maq]

I mean using calling trigger_error from the catch{}
 
Yes  you  are  right  i  can  use  trigger_error  that  will  use  the  
function  that  handles  errors  from  my  class.

Thanks

-  Original  Message  
From:  Christoph  Boget  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To:  It  Maq  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc:  php-general@lists.php.net
Sent:  Wednesday,  March  12,  2008  10:31:07  AM
Subject:  Re:  [PHP]  best  practices  in  error  handling  in  PHP

   I  want  to  know  what  is  the  best  solution  for  handling  errors.  
 After  reading  some
  documents  dealing  with  the  subject,  i  have  three  options:
   *  Using  a  class  for  error  handling
   *  Using  PEAR  error  object
   *  Using  try  and  catch  exceptions
   The  error  handling  i  want  to  implement  will  be  done  in  a  big  
 application  that  was
  developed  from  the  beginning  without  any  concern  about  error  
 handling.

It  seems  to  me  that  1  and  3  aren't  necessarily  mutually  exclusive.   
I
believe  that  you  can  use  your  own  error  classes  in  php's  try/catch
functionality.   As  for  PEAR's  error  object,  unless  you  are  using  PEAR
elsewhere  in  your  app  I'm  not  sure  it  would  be  worthwhile  to  just  
use
this  very  small  piece.

This  is  all  just  IMO.

thnx,
Chris






 

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Re: [PHP] PHP Ajax progress bar

[Thijs Lensselink]

Quoting Philip Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED]:


On Mar 12, 2008, at 5:02 AM, Thijs Lensselink wrote:


Thijs Lensselink 写道:


How do you pronounce your name?


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Well.. how to explain this one...

thijs : T + [ice]

That's the best i can do :)


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[PHP] Re: A Quick Reminder....

[Daniel Brown]

Because then it screws up message formatting.

On Wed, Mar 12, 2008 at 10:54 AM, Daniel Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Please don't top-post!  ;-P

  --
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  Daniel P. Brown
  Senior Unix Geek
  ? while(1) { $me = $mind--; sleep(86400); } ?




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? while(1) { $me = $mind--; sleep(86400); } ?

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[PHP] Re: A Quick Reminder....

[Daniel Brown]

Especially in the archives.

On Wed, Mar 12, 2008 at 10:55 AM, Daniel Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Because then it screws up message formatting.



  On Wed, Mar 12, 2008 at 10:54 AM, Daniel Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   Please don't top-post!  ;-P
  
--
/Dan
  
Daniel P. Brown
Senior Unix Geek
? while(1) { $me = $mind--; sleep(86400); } ?
  



  --
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  Daniel P. Brown
  Senior Unix Geek
  ? while(1) { $me = $mind--; sleep(86400); } ?




-- 
/Dan

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[PHP] A Quick Reminder....

[Daniel Brown]

Please don't top-post!  ;-P

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Re: [PHP] mail function and headers

[Daniel Brown]

On Wed, Mar 12, 2008 at 10:28 AM, Alain Roger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi,

  i'm playing a little bit with the mail function from PHP 5.2.4 and email
  headers.
  here is a snippet of my code:

   $headers = 'From: '.$email. .$fromname.
   \r\n.'Reply-To:'.$email.\r\n.'X-Mailer: PHP/' . phpversion();

You have the From: header parameters reversed.  Try this:

?
$headers  = From: .$fromname. .$email.\r\n;
$headers .= Reply-To: .$email.\r\n;
$headers .= X-Mailer: PHP/.phpversion().\r\n;
/*

*/
?

-- 
/Dan

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Re: [PHP] Timezone management

[Jim Lucas]

Lamonte H wrote:

After a while of studying different softwares,  I've still been getting
confused on how to make a timezone management script to display time in
different time zones.  Like right now im in -0600 CST GMT,  how would I
create a script that would work on any server that would allow me to display
my current time from -12 to 12 GMT in a select box so others could pick
their own time also.



Don't forget, there are a few time zones that are off by 30 minutes

--
Jim Lucas

   Some men are born to greatness, some achieve greatness,
   and some have greatness thrust upon them.

Twelfth Night, Act II, Scene V
by William Shakespeare

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Re: [PHP] Timezone management

[Daniel Brown]

On Wed, Mar 12, 2008 at 10:50 AM, Jim Lucas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Lamonte H wrote:
   After a while of studying different softwares,  I've still been getting
   confused on how to make a timezone management script to display time in
   different time zones.  Like right now im in -0600 CST GMT,  how would I
   create a script that would work on any server that would allow me to 
 display
   my current time from -12 to 12 GMT in a select box so others could pick
   their own time also.
  

  Don't forget, there are a few time zones that are off by 30 minutes

You are correct, sir!

This is why you may want to check into using date(O); to check the offset.

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Re: [PHP] A Quick Reminder....

[TG]

I call TROLL on Dan!  :)   I top post for what I consider to be legitmate 
reasons just like you bottom post for reasons you consider to be legitmate.

Can't we all just get along?


How about something OT that we can argue about...   driving on the left side 
of the road versus the right side.  How does your country compare?

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d35/wereallouttabubblegum/Drives_On_Right.jpg

(thus begins a month-long discussion of top posting and driving habits...  
php general archive weeps)  :)

-TG

- Original Message -
From: Daniel Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: PHP General List php-general@lists.php.net
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 10:54:29 -0400
Subject: [PHP] A Quick Reminder

 Please don't top-post!  ;-P
 
 -- 
 /Dan
 
 Daniel P. Brown
 Senior Unix Geek
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Re: [PHP] PHP Ajax progress bar

[Philip Thompson]

On Mar 12, 2008, at 9:52 AM, Thijs Lensselink wrote:


Quoting Philip Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED]:


On Mar 12, 2008, at 5:02 AM, Thijs Lensselink wrote:


Thijs Lensselink 写道:


How do you pronounce your name?


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Well.. how to explain this one...

thijs : T + [ice]

That's the best i can do :)



Which is different than the famous rapper/actor...

hijs-t : [ice] + T

Hehehe =D
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Re: [PHP] A Quick Reminder....

[Daniel Brown]

On Wed, Mar 12, 2008 at 11:01 AM, TG [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  How about something OT that we can argue about...   driving on the left side
  of the road versus the right side.  How does your country compare?

Here in Pennsyltucky, a lot of people drive on the left, despite
the fact that the whole US is supposed to drive on the right.  It
usually doesn't turn out very good.  .:shakes head, solemnly:.

Not very good at all.

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Re: [PHP] mail function and headers

[spacemarc]

2008/3/12, Daniel Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 You have the From: header parameters reversed.  Try this:

  ?
  $headers  = From: .$fromname. .$email.\r\n;
  $headers .= Reply-To: .$email.\r\n;
  $headers .= X-Mailer: PHP/.phpversion().\r\n;
  /*
 
  */
  ?

you can add these headers:

$header = From: $fromname$email\n;
$header .= Reply-To: $email\n;
$header .= Return-Path: $email\n;
$header .= X-Mailer: PHP/ . phpversion() . \n;
$header .= MIME-Version: 1.0\n;
$header .= Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1\n;
$header .= Content-Transfer-encoding: 7bit\n;

Try it.

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Re: [PHP] PHP Ajax progress bar

[Daniel Brown]

On Wed, Mar 12, 2008 at 11:03 AM, Philip Thompson
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Mar 12, 2008, at 9:52 AM, Thijs Lensselink wrote:
   Quoting Philip Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
  
   How do you pronounce your name?
  
   Well.. how to explain this one...
  
   thijs : T + [ice]
  

  Which is different than the famous rapper/actor...

  hijs-t : [ice] + T


HA!

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Re: [PHP] A Quick Reminder....

[Aschwin Wesselius]

Daniel Brown wrote:

On Wed, Mar 12, 2008 at 11:01 AM, TG [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  

 How about something OT that we can argue about...   driving on the left side
 of the road versus the right side.  How does your country compare?



Here in Pennsyltucky, a lot of people drive on the left, despite
the fact that the whole US is supposed to drive on the right.  It
usually doesn't turn out very good.  .:shakes head, solemnly:.

Not very good at all.


It's the French that started to drive on the right side of the road:

http://users.pandora.be/worldstandards/driving%20on%20the%20left.htm

But I don't know who started with top-posting which is against the 
netiquette RFC.


People sticking with strict HTML, coding standards in PHP, valid XML, 
nice pixelf*cked CSS etc. and not posting below a message on a list are 
a bunch of hypocrites. Simple as that.

--

Aschwin Wesselius

/'What you would like to be done to you, do that to the other'/

Re: [PHP] A Quick Reminder....

[Jason Pruim]

On Mar 12, 2008, at 11:06 AM, Daniel Brown wrote:

On Wed, Mar 12, 2008 at 11:01 AM, TG [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
wrote:
How about something OT that we can argue about...   driving on the  
left side

of the road versus the right side.  How does your country compare?


   Here in Pennsyltucky, a lot of people drive on the left, despite
the fact that the whole US is supposed to drive on the right.  It
usually doesn't turn out very good.  .:shakes head, solemnly:.

   Not very good at all.


Up here in the great big hand (Michigan for those who don't know)  
during the winter we have so much snow on the ground that you just  
kind of drive where ever looks like road... Even if it means you have  
people passing on your right going the opposite way.



--

Jason Pruim
Raoset Inc.
Technology Manager
MQC Specialist
3251 132nd ave
Holland, MI, 49424-9337
www.raoset.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]




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Re: [PHP] PHP Ajax progress bar

[Thijs Lensselink]

Quoting Daniel Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED]:


On Wed, Mar 12, 2008 at 11:03 AM, Philip Thompson
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

On Mar 12, 2008, at 9:52 AM, Thijs Lensselink wrote:
  Quoting Philip Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 
  How do you pronounce your name?
 
  Well.. how to explain this one...
 
  thijs : T + [ice]
 

 Which is different than the famous rapper/actor...

 hijs-t : [ice] + T



HA!

--
/Dan

Daniel P. Brown
Senior Unix Geek
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Same reaction here!



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[PHP] Re: A Quick Reminder....

[Daniel Brown]

On Wed, Mar 12, 2008 at 10:55 AM, Daniel Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Especially in the archives.

Or worse yet, when someone else bottom-posts correctly and doesn't
clip the remaining conversation.



  On Wed, Mar 12, 2008 at 10:55 AM, Daniel Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   Because then it screws up message formatting.
  
  
  
On Wed, Mar 12, 2008 at 10:54 AM, Daniel Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Please don't top-post!  ;-P

  --
  /Dan

  Daniel P. Brown
  Senior Unix Geek
  ? while(1) { $me = $mind--; sleep(86400); } ?

  
  
  
--
/Dan
  
Daniel P. Brown
Senior Unix Geek
? while(1) { $me = $mind--; sleep(86400); } ?
  



  --


 /Dan

  Daniel P. Brown
  Senior Unix Geek
  ? while(1) { $me = $mind--; sleep(86400); } ?




-- 
/Dan

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Re: [PHP] A Quick Reminder....

[Wolf]

 Jason Pruim [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
 
 On Mar 12, 2008, at 11:06 AM, Daniel Brown wrote:
 
  On Wed, Mar 12, 2008 at 11:01 AM, TG [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
  wrote:
  How about something OT that we can argue about...   driving on the  
  left side
  of the road versus the right side.  How does your country compare?
 
 Here in Pennsyltucky, a lot of people drive on the left, despite
  the fact that the whole US is supposed to drive on the right.  It
  usually doesn't turn out very good.  .:shakes head, solemnly:.
 
 Not very good at all.
 
 Up here in the great big hand (Michigan for those who don't know)  
 during the winter we have so much snow on the ground that you just  
 kind of drive where ever looks like road... Even if it means you have  
 people passing on your right going the opposite way.
 
When I lived in South Dakota, we did the same thing...

Here in the state of North Carolina (otherwise known as confusion central 
during ANY type of weather) they drive anywhere between the 2 white lines, 
generally as slow as humanly possible with their blinkers on and tieing up all 
lanes...  Even during a 85 degree, 0% overcast, 0% humidity day...  *grumble*



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Re: [PHP] What's wrong the __autoload()?

[Greg Donald]

On 3/12/08, Richard Heyes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  I'm wondering what's wrong with the use of __autoload(), since I see that
   projects like the Zend Framework don't use it and prefer to require_once
   each required file.

 Things that happen without you explicitly causing them (ie require() et
  al) can lead to confusion.

It's called convention over configuration and that's exactly where
good frameworks should be headed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_over_Configuration

  For example a junior developer who doesn't know of its existence  and is
  new to a job is less likely to admit ignorance and ask how a class is
  being defined when __autoload() is being used.

That's a the dumbest reason I've ever heard to not use a given language feature.


-- 
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http://destiney.com/

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Re: [PHP] mail function and headers

[Alain Roger]

ok i will try... what about UTF-8 to ensure unicode ?
my website and especially the form which will send this email, will be
filled in by several nationalities... spanish, english, french, slovak,
german,,...
so isn't it easier to set up utf-8 ?

A.

On Wed, Mar 12, 2008 at 4:11 PM, spacemarc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 2008/3/12, Daniel Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
  You have the From: header parameters reversed.  Try this:
 
   ?
   $headers  = From: .$fromname. .$email.\r\n;
   $headers .= Reply-To: .$email.\r\n;
   $headers .= X-Mailer: PHP/.phpversion().\r\n;
   /*
  
   */
   ?

 you can add these headers:

 $header = From: $fromname$email\n;
 $header .= Reply-To: $email\n;
 $header .= Return-Path: $email\n;
 $header .= X-Mailer: PHP/ . phpversion() . \n;
 $header .= MIME-Version: 1.0\n;
 $header .= Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1\n;
 $header .= Content-Transfer-encoding: 7bit\n;

 Try it.

 --
 Scripts: http://www.spacemarc.it




-- 
Alain

Windows XP SP2
PostgreSQL 8.2.4 / MS SQL server 2005
Apache 2.2.4
PHP 5.2.4
C# 2005-2008

Fwd: [PHP] mail function and headers

[Alain Roger]

ok i will try... what about UTF-8 to ensure unicode ?
my website and especially the form which will send this email, will be
filled in by several nationalities... spanish, english, french, slovak,
german,,...
so isn't it easier to set up utf-8 ?

A.


On Wed, Mar 12, 2008 at 4:11 PM, spacemarc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 2008/3/12, Daniel Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
  You have the From: header parameters reversed.  Try this:
 
   ?
   $headers  = From: .$fromname. .$email.\r\n;
   $headers .= Reply-To: .$email.\r\n;
   $headers .= X-Mailer: PHP/.phpversion().\r\n;
   /*
  
   */
   ?

 you can add these headers:

 $header = From: $fromname$email\n;
 $header .= Reply-To: $email\n;
 $header .= Return-Path: $email\n;
 $header .= X-Mailer: PHP/ . phpversion() . \n;
 $header .= MIME-Version: 1.0\n;
 $header .= Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1\n;
 $header .= Content-Transfer-encoding: 7bit\n;

 Try it.

 --
 Scripts: http://www.spacemarc.it




-- 
Alain

Windows XP SP2
PostgreSQL 8.2.4 / MS SQL server 2005
Apache 2.2.4
PHP 5.2.4
C# 2005-2008



-- 
Alain

Windows XP SP2
PostgreSQL 8.2.4 / MS SQL server 2005
Apache 2.2.4
PHP 5.2.4
C# 2005-2008

Re: [PHP] strtotime( 'last Sunday' ) and republicans

[Greg Donald]

On 3/10/08, Wolf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Watch throwing that blame around there Greg, you get to thank the
  democrats for NAFTA and the hurting the heartlands

No matter where we draw the borders or put the roads and highways,
it's still just the one planet, with the same finite resources we all
have to share.  Being mad about globalization is pointless, it's
inevitable.


-- 
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http://destiney.com/

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Re: [PHP] What's wrong the __autoload()?

[Robert Cummings]

On Wed, 2008-03-12 at 10:33 -0500, Greg Donald wrote:
 On 3/12/08, Richard Heyes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   I'm wondering what's wrong with the use of __autoload(), since I see that
projects like the Zend Framework don't use it and prefer to require_once
each required file.
 
  Things that happen without you explicitly causing them (ie require() et
   al) can lead to confusion.
 
 It's called convention over configuration and that's exactly where
 good frameworks should be headed.

But then you'd end up with something like Ruby on Rails... and we all
know about Ruby on Rails *VOMIT*.

Who wants to be stuck on a track when they can soar with the eagles.

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_over_Configuration

Interesting how the article promotes the ideas of both convention and
configuration co-existing so that one doesn't lose versatility. Thus,
one could infer that any good framework would allow both paradigms.

Cheers,
Rob.
-- 
http://www.interjinn.com
Application and Templating Framework for PHP


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Re: [PHP] mail function and headers

[Alain Roger]

ok, so this is what i got and it is still remaining... :-(

Received: from serdev ([127.0.0.1]) by home.com with MailEnable ESMTP; Wed,
 12 Mar 2008 16:40:18 +0100
 Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 16:40:18 +0100
 Subject: subject 3
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 From: raf, news [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Return-Path: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 X-Mailer: PHP/5.2.4
 MIME-Version: 1.0
 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
 Content-Transfer-encoding: 7bit


as you can see my Return-Path is still pointing on the wrong direction :-(
any other idea ?

A.

On Wed, Mar 12, 2008 at 4:11 PM, spacemarc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 2008/3/12, Daniel Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
  You have the From: header parameters reversed.  Try this:
 
   ?
   $headers  = From: .$fromname. .$email.\r\n;
   $headers .= Reply-To: .$email.\r\n;
   $headers .= X-Mailer: PHP/.phpversion().\r\n;
   /*
  
   */
   ?

 you can add these headers:

 $header = From: $fromname$email\n;
 $header .= Reply-To: $email\n;
 $header .= Return-Path: $email\n;
 $header .= X-Mailer: PHP/ . phpversion() . \n;
 $header .= MIME-Version: 1.0\n;
 $header .= Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1\n;
 $header .= Content-Transfer-encoding: 7bit\n;

 Try it.

 --
 Scripts: http://www.spacemarc.it




-- 
Alain

Windows XP SP2
PostgreSQL 8.2.4 / MS SQL server 2005
Apache 2.2.4
PHP 5.2.4
C# 2005-2008

Re: [PHP] A Quick Reminder....

[Per Jessen]

Daniel Brown wrote:

 Here in Pennsyltucky, a lot of people drive on the left, despite
 the fact that the whole US is supposed to drive on the right.  It
 usually doesn't turn out very good.  .:shakes head, solemnly:.

Don't worry Dan, evolution will sort that out eventually. 


/Per Jessen, Zürich


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RE: [PHP] A Quick Reminder....

[Andrés Robinet]

I don't know... but...

 -Original Message-
 From: Wolf [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 11:30 AM
 To: Jason Pruim
 Cc: TG; Daniel Brown; PHP General List
 Subject: Re: [PHP] A Quick Reminder
 
 
  Jason Pruim [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  On Mar 12, 2008, at 11:06 AM, Daniel Brown wrote:
 
   On Wed, Mar 12, 2008 at 11:01 AM, TG [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   wrote:
   How about something OT that we can argue about...   driving on the
   left side
   of the road versus the right side.  How does your country compare?

How about when someone middle-posts like this... such as some kind of 
quoting attempt...

  
  Here in Pennsyltucky, a lot of people drive on the left, despite
   the fact that the whole US is supposed to drive on the right.  It
   usually doesn't turn out very good.  .:shakes head, solemnly:.
  
  Not very good at all.
 
  Up here in the great big hand (Michigan for those who don't know)
  during the winter we have so much snow on the ground that you just
  kind of drive where ever looks like road... Even if it means you have
  people passing on your right going the opposite way.

Or even worse... tries to quote several of the previous posters in several 
places?

 
 When I lived in South Dakota, we did the same thing...
 
 Here in the state of North Carolina (otherwise known as confusion central
 during ANY type of weather) they drive anywhere between the 2 white lines,
 generally as slow as humanly possible with their blinkers on and tieing up
 all lanes...  Even during a 85 degree, 0% overcast, 0% humidity day...
 *grumble*
 
 

So in the end everything is screwed up...

 
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... and he/she still ends with a 

Regards,

Mr X

..as if he/she did no wrong?

That's the bad thing :D


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Re: [PHP] A Quick Reminder....

[TG]

RFC1855/FYI28:
ftp://ftp.rfc-editor.org/in-notes/rfc1855.txt
ftp://ftp.rfc-editor.org/in-notes/fyi/fyi28.txt

Found via the RFC-Editor archive search:
http://www.rfc-editor.org/

Ok, so this RFC discourages top posting, but it was also written 13 years ago 
when Usenet and other threaded/flat message board type systems were 
prominent.   From doing some quick searches, the predominant opinion seems 
to be bottom posting was the style back then, most new online services 
lean toward top posting.

Here's quick rundown of services and if they position the cursor at the top 
or bottom when replying:

Gmail: top post
Yahoo Mail: top post
Microsoft Outlook: top post
Hotmail: positions cursor on To: line, tabbing down to body puts cursor at 
top
Squirrelmail 1.4: positions cursor on To: line, tabbing downt to body puts 
cursor at bottom
Comcast Mail Center: top post

I actually prefer inline responses when there are many different things being 
responded to, but top-posting  when there's just a point or two and I'm 
already familiar with the conversation.  Anyone coming in at the middle of 
the conversation can refer to what's below if needed, but don't have to 
look at it if they already know what's going on.Top-posting, to me, is 
definitely more efficient and preferable.

Do people on Blackberry's and iPhones really want to scroll past a bunch of 
stuff they've already read to get to the actual current message?


Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying bottom posting is bad.  I'm really 
just pointing out that it is a preference issue.   And if there's a problem 
with archives and digests, maybe the archives and digests should be 
updated.   It shouldn't matter if people top- or bottom-post, as long as 
they trim messages so there's not a lot of superfluous junk involved.  
THAT's really what causes issues in archives and digests in my experience.. 
regardless of top/bottom posting.

It seems that bottom posting was more of a necessity years ago and that many 
people cling to it as absolute ettiquette due more to tradition and 
preference than anything else.

As for hypocrites... I'm not sure how that applies.  Unless you're saying 
people who adhere to strict web standards but still top-post are 
hypocrites.   If you can show me an actual ratified standard that says we 
must all top post, then maybe you have a point.  But since the only 
'official' document is an RFC (and my requested comments appear above) from 
13 years ago, then I'll have to call bunk on hypocracy in this case.   It 
would be like saying I was in the military and we all addressed our 
superiors with SIR msg SIR! therefore, since I'm your boss, that's the 
communications standard you must adhere to.. despite not being in the 
miiltary.

Ooops.. I violated another standard.   The period should be within the quotes 
   ... military. Crap.  I'm breaking the internet by not following 
standards.  Oops. I mean. Internet (capitalized).

Just deal with the fact that this is a holy war issue that nobody going to 
convince anyone to change their mind about and let's move on.If it 
seriously causes a problem with archives and digests, then someone needs to 
update the way messages are presented in the archives and digests because 
it's antiquated.

I recommend using a nice threaded email service like Gmail and not using 
digests..You get a similar effect, but without all this crazy confusion 
when someone top-posts or someone doesn't trim their messages properly.

-TG


- Original Message -
From: Aschwin Wesselius [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Daniel Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: TG [EMAIL PROTECTED], PHP General List 
php-general@lists.php.net
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 16:14:03 +0100

 But I don't know who started with top-posting which is against the 
 netiquette RFC.
 
 People sticking with strict HTML, coding standards in PHP, valid XML, 
 nice pixelf*cked CSS etc. and not posting below a message on a list are 
 a bunch of hypocrites. Simple as that.
 -- 
 
 Aschwin Wesselius


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Re: [PHP] What's wrong the __autoload()?

[Greg Donald]

On 3/12/08, Robert Cummings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 But then you'd end up with something like Ruby on Rails... and we all
  know about Ruby on Rails *VOMIT*.

You clearly don't know much about it or else you wouldn't be bashing
it.  Period.  Just admit the fact that you're resistant to learn new,
better ways of doing things and move on.

On the other hand, if there's something in Rails you genuinely don't
understand, I'll be happy to assist you with that particular
understanding, off-list or wherever, free of charge.

  Who wants to be stuck on a track when they can soar with the eagles.

I dunno, why not ask the many Rails clone authors?  I certainly don't
see any Ruby programmers trying to copy ZF or Symphony.

   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_over_Configuration

 Interesting how the article promotes the ideas of both convention and
  configuration co-existing so that one doesn't lose versatility. Thus,
  one could infer that any good framework would allow both paradigms.

Rails supports both naturally.  It has configurable environments for
development, testing, and production, all pre-configured for the most
common cases.  You can even create your own new environments if you
have something that doesn't fit into dev/test/prod very easily.
Complete versatility in every regard thanks to Ruby's meta-ness.


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Re: [PHP] What's wrong the __autoload()?

[Richard Heyes]

 For example a junior developer who doesn't know of its existence  and is
 new to a job is less likely to admit ignorance and ask how a class is
 being defined when __autoload() is being used.


That's a the dumbest reason I've ever heard to not use a given language feature.


It's a perfectly viable business reason.

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RE: [PHP] A Quick Reminder....

[TG]

- Original Message -
From: Andrés Robinet [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'Wolf' [EMAIL PROTECTED],   'Jason Pruim' [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: 'TG' [EMAIL PROTECTED], 'Daniel Brown' [EMAIL PROTECTED],   'PHP 
General List' php-general@lists.php.net
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 11:58:26 -0400


 How about when someone middle-posts like this... such as some kind of 
 quoting attempt...

This is acceptable if there are multiple points.  Better than trying to address 
each point at the top OR bottom.  That just gets awkward.

 Or even worse... tries to quote several of the previous posters in several 
 places?

That's no problem as long as the quoted text included is relevant to the 
response or may be helpful if getting someone caught up on at least that 
segment of the conversation.  It doesn't have to include everything having been 
said since the beginning of the conversation.


 So in the end everything is screwed up...

What's screwed up?  Is this unclear?   This is more about what people choose to 
leave in a message versus what they should be trimming out than an issue of 
top/inline/bottom posting.

 ... and he/she still ends with a 
 
 Regards,
 
 Mr X
 
 ..as if he/she did no wrong?

Wrong in your eyes, but that's pretty subjective.

 That's the bad thing :D


Is it?  hah.

-TG

sorry...


Regards.. -TG  hah


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Re: [PHP] What's wrong the __autoload()?

[Greg Donald]

On 3/12/08, Richard Heyes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 It's a perfectly viable business reason.

No it's not.  I guess you need a business scenario to wrap your head
around the idiocy.

Here you go:

Imagine at Blizzard one morning, Hey guys, we're not going to be able
to use function pointers on the new Diablo III like we had planned to
do, the new hires down the hall don't understand them very well so
just don't use them, OK?


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Re: [PHP] What's wrong the __autoload()?

[Eric Butera]

On Wed, Mar 12, 2008 at 10:05 AM, Gustavo Narea [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hello all,

  I'm wondering what's wrong with the use of __autoload(), since I see that
  projects like the Zend Framework don't use it and prefer to require_once
  each required file.

  Thanks in advance.
  --
  Gustavo Narea.
  http://gustavonarea.net/

  Get GNU/Linux! http://www.getgnulinux.org/


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Use spl autoload register instead.  This way your app and dependent
libraries can have their own autoloaders.

http://us2.php.net/manual/en/function.spl-autoload-register.php

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Re: [PHP] What's wrong the __autoload()?

[Richard Heyes]

It's a perfectly viable business reason.


No it's not.  I guess you need a business scenario to wrap your head
around the idiocy.

Here you go:

Imagine at Blizzard one morning, Hey guys, we're not going to be able
to use function pointers on the new Diablo III like we had planned to
do, the new hires down the hall don't understand them very well so
just don't use them, OK?


That's not quite the situation. Finding good developers isn't easy, so 
lots of companies will go for acceptable ones, who are less likely to 
know of __autoloads existence. Hence, using __autoload is unwise.


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Re: [PHP] What's wrong the __autoload()?

[Zoltán Németh]

2008. 03. 12, szerda keltezéssel 11.12-kor Greg Donald ezt írta:
 On 3/12/08, Robert Cummings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  But then you'd end up with something like Ruby on Rails... and we all
   know about Ruby on Rails *VOMIT*.
 
 You clearly don't know much about it or else you wouldn't be bashing
 it.  Period.  Just admit the fact that you're resistant to learn new,
 better ways of doing things and move on.

hey, we had a conversation about this a while back, and I'm still not
convinced about RoR being 'better'. it has several cool ideas, which
some php frameworks also follow now (and a few that would be cool in php
frameworks but not yet implemented), but I strongly think that Ruby as a
language just plain sucks ;)

greets,
Zoltán Németh

 
 On the other hand, if there's something in Rails you genuinely don't
 understand, I'll be happy to assist you with that particular
 understanding, off-list or wherever, free of charge.
 
   Who wants to be stuck on a track when they can soar with the eagles.
 
 I dunno, why not ask the many Rails clone authors?  I certainly don't
 see any Ruby programmers trying to copy ZF or Symphony.
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_over_Configuration
 
  Interesting how the article promotes the ideas of both convention and
   configuration co-existing so that one doesn't lose versatility. Thus,
   one could infer that any good framework would allow both paradigms.
 
 Rails supports both naturally.  It has configurable environments for
 development, testing, and production, all pre-configured for the most
 common cases.  You can even create your own new environments if you
 have something that doesn't fit into dev/test/prod very easily.
 Complete versatility in every regard thanks to Ruby's meta-ness.
 
 
 -- 
 Greg Donald
 http://destiney.com/
 


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Re: [PHP] A Quick Reminder....

[Ray Hauge]

Jason Pruim wrote:


On Mar 12, 2008, at 11:06 AM, Daniel Brown wrote:

On Wed, Mar 12, 2008 at 11:01 AM, TG [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
How about something OT that we can argue about...   driving on the 
left side

of the road versus the right side.  How does your country compare?


   Here in Pennsyltucky, a lot of people drive on the left, despite
the fact that the whole US is supposed to drive on the right.  It
usually doesn't turn out very good.  .:shakes head, solemnly:.

   Not very good at all.


Up here in the great big hand (Michigan for those who don't know) during 
the winter we have so much snow on the ground that you just kind of 
drive where ever looks like road... Even if it means you have people 
passing on your right going the opposite way.



--

Jason Pruim
Raoset Inc.
Technology Manager
MQC Specialist
3251 132nd ave
Holland, MI, 49424-9337
www.raoset.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]






I'm in Fargo, North Dakota (the that's a state? state).  We experience 
very much the same thing.  Especially on the side roads that don't get 
cleared as well.  You just have to make sure that you don't run into 
each other and you're good.


As far as replies, I like bottom posting because it keeps the 
conversation flow more in tact.  GMail does a good job regardless of 
bottom or top posting though.


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www.primateapplications.com

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Re: [PHP] What's wrong the __autoload()?

[Greg Donald]

On 3/12/08, Richard Heyes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 That's not quite the situation. Finding good developers isn't easy, so
  lots of companies will go for acceptable ones, who are less likely to
  know of __autoloads existence. Hence, using __autoload is unwise.

A lesser developer should be paid less and should be expected to
produce less but he should not in any way be allowed to refrain from
learning.

How long does it take to understand __autoload() anyway?  5-10
minutes?  15 or 20 if you play with an example for a bit?  You're
gonna restrict the entire development team from using a given feature
just because you don't want to invest 20 minutes in getting your
newbie developer up to spead?  That's pure idiocy.


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Re: [PHP] What's wrong the __autoload()?

[Greg Donald]

On 3/12/08, Zoltán Németh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 but I strongly think that Ruby as a
 language just plain sucks ;)

And exactly how many projects do you have under your belt to allow you
to develop this opinion?  What's the url to any one of them?

Unlike you I actually have thousands of lines of Ruby code under my
belt that allows me to properly develop an opinion of Ruby and Rails
and how they both compare to every other programming language and
framework I know and have developed in.  Need a URL?


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Re: [PHP] What's wrong the __autoload()?

[Greg Donald]

On 3/12/08, Richard Heyes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 No it's not. It's not like require_once() is a hassle to type/use
  anyhow. Things like editor macros and templates help out enormously and
  by using them over __auto load you (a business) could save yourself a
  lot of time and hence money.

I'm not defending __autoload() specifically, I don't do much OO PHP
anyway so I couldn't possibly care less about it.  My argument is that
asking other developers to not use specific language features simply
because lesser developers may not know them very well is just plain
dumb.  I'm sorry you don't get it and I'm done trying to help you get
it.  Good luck codling your lesser developers.  May they never learn
jack on their own.

*sigh*


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Re: [PHP] What's wrong the __autoload()?

[Greg Donald]

On 3/12/08, Robert Cummings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   Imagine at Blizzard one morning, Hey guys, we're not going to be able
   to use function pointers on the new Diablo III like we had planned to
   do, the new hires down the hall don't understand them very well so
   just don't use them, OK?

 This is not a valid comparison. The above is the replacement of one
  convention with another convention. It is not a case of circumventing a
  convention to achieve a specific, and probably desired outcome.

It's a dead-on, same example, just with a different programming
language and a different language feature.


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Re: [PHP] What's wrong the __autoload()?

[Zoltán Németh]

2008. 03. 12, szerda keltezéssel 12.12-kor Greg Donald ezt írta:
 On 3/12/08, Zoltán Németh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  but I strongly think that Ruby as a
  language just plain sucks ;)
 
 And exactly how many projects do you have under your belt to allow you
 to develop this opinion?  What's the url to any one of them?
 
 Unlike you I actually have thousands of lines of Ruby code under my
 belt that allows me to properly develop an opinion of Ruby and Rails
 and how they both compare to every other programming language and
 framework I know and have developed in.  Need a URL?

ok, I admit I don't have experience with Ruby but I have experience with
php. and I don't have experience with Ruby because I read some manuals
and example codes and whatnot and I just could not get to like it at
all. it's just so strange and different from anything I know (php, c,
java) - and I could not find out any good reasons for most of the
differences... e.g. how come function definitions are between 'def' and
'end'? I just don't like it and it's a matter of taste, so there is no
need to argue about it more... :)

however that's not about the framework, I admit that Rails had several
new and useful concepts, and I know that the framework I currently use
took a lot of ideas from there.

greets,
Zoltán Németh

 
 
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Re: [PHP] What's wrong the __autoload()?

[Robert Cummings]

On Wed, 2008-03-12 at 11:12 -0500, Greg Donald wrote:
 On 3/12/08, Robert Cummings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  But then you'd end up with something like Ruby on Rails... and we all
   know about Ruby on Rails *VOMIT*.
 
 You clearly don't know much about it or else you wouldn't be bashing
 it.  Period.

Ummm, I've looked into Ruby and RoR. I've tried it out. I've read many
many many articles on it. I JUST DON'T LIKE IT.

 Just admit the fact that you're resistant to learn new,
 better ways of doing things and move on.

Ooooh... a personal attack... what a great way to make me reflect upon
my dislike of RoR. I think the only person around here qualified to
throw around facts about me is... you know... ME!

 On the other hand, if there's something in Rails you genuinely don't
 understand, I'll be happy to assist you with that particular
 understanding, off-list or wherever, free of charge.

Oh, there's nothing I don't understand about it. I just don't like it.
Can't a person just not like something anymore? Can't I have my own
opinion anymore? What year is this? 1984?? ... In an alternate universe
that was supposed to be averted?

Cheers,
Rob.
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Application and Templating Framework for PHP


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Re: [PHP] What's wrong the __autoload()?

[Richard Heyes]

Greg Donald wrote:

On 3/12/08, Richard Heyes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

That's not quite the situation. Finding good developers isn't easy, so
 lots of companies will go for acceptable ones, who are less likely to
 know of __autoloads existence. Hence, using __autoload is unwise.


A lesser developer should be paid less and should be expected to
produce less but he should not in any way be allowed to refrain from
learning.


I agree. But having worked in the (then) fast paced environment of 
online DVD rental, time was not available.



How long does it take to understand __autoload() anyway?  5-10
minutes?


I would say as long as it takes to read the manual page, which isn't 
that long at all.


 You're

gonna restrict the entire development team from using a given feature
just because you don't want to invest 20 minutes in getting your
newbie developer up to spead?  That's pure idiocy.


No it's not. It's not like require_once() is a hassle to type/use 
anyhow. Things like editor macros and templates help out enormously and 
by using them over __auto load you (a business) could save yourself a 
lot of time and hence money.


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Re: [PHP] What's wrong the __autoload()?

[Wolf]

 Richard Heyes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
 Greg Donald wrote:
  On 3/12/08, Richard Heyes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  That's not quite the situation. Finding good developers isn't easy, so
   lots of companies will go for acceptable ones, who are less likely to
   know of __autoloads existence. Hence, using __autoload is unwise.
  
  A lesser developer should be paid less and should be expected to
  produce less but he should not in any way be allowed to refrain from
  learning.
 
 I agree. But having worked in the (then) fast paced environment of 
 online DVD rental, time was not available.

Learning always has to happen, even if you don't think it is...  Some are just 
slower then others. 

  How long does it take to understand __autoload() anyway?  5-10
  minutes?
 
 I would say as long as it takes to read the manual page, which isn't 
 that long at all.

And you have to couple in with that the person's mental capacity for what they 
are trying to learn, their background, and if they have any other knowledge of 
the subject.

   You're
  gonna restrict the entire development team from using a given feature
  just because you don't want to invest 20 minutes in getting your
  newbie developer up to spead?  That's pure idiocy.
 
 No it's not. It's not like require_once() is a hassle to type/use 
 anyhow. Things like editor macros and templates help out enormously and 
 by using them over __auto load you (a business) could save yourself a 
 lot of time and hence money.

I actually prefer to use a site prepend and append, then in the prepend file is 
where I throw all my requires and such.  pretty much takes care of any learning 
curve since with the prepended file doing the heavy lifting.

Wolf

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Re: [PHP] What's wrong the __autoload()?

[Robert Cummings]

On Wed, 2008-03-12 at 11:26 -0500, Greg Donald wrote:
 On 3/12/08, Richard Heyes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  It's a perfectly viable business reason.
 
 No it's not.  I guess you need a business scenario to wrap your head
 around the idiocy.
 
 Here you go:
 
 Imagine at Blizzard one morning, Hey guys, we're not going to be able
 to use function pointers on the new Diablo III like we had planned to
 do, the new hires down the hall don't understand them very well so
 just don't use them, OK?

This is not a valid comparison. The above is the replacement of one
convention with another convention. It is not a case of circumventing a
convention to achieve a specific, and probably desired outcome.

Cheers,
Rob.
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Re: [PHP] What's wrong the __autoload()?

[Robert Cummings]

On Wed, 2008-03-12 at 18:21 +0100, Zoltán Németh wrote:
 2008. 03. 12, szerda keltezéssel 12.12-kor Greg Donald ezt írta:
  On 3/12/08, Zoltán Németh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   but I strongly think that Ruby as a
   language just plain sucks ;)
  
  And exactly how many projects do you have under your belt to allow you
  to develop this opinion?  What's the url to any one of them?
  
  Unlike you I actually have thousands of lines of Ruby code under my
  belt that allows me to properly develop an opinion of Ruby and Rails
  and how they both compare to every other programming language and
  framework I know and have developed in.  Need a URL?
 
 ok, I admit I don't have experience with Ruby but I have experience with
 php. and I don't have experience with Ruby because I read some manuals
 and example codes and whatnot and I just could not get to like it at
 all. it's just so strange and different from anything I know (php, c,
 java) - and I could not find out any good reasons for most of the
 differences... e.g. how come function definitions are between 'def' and
 'end'?

Because they didn't follow convention... *HAHAHA* oh my, I think I just
pee'd myself.

Cheers,
Rob.
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Re: [PHP] What's wrong the __autoload()?

[Stut]

On 12 Mar 2008, at 17:31, Wolf wrote:

 Richard Heyes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Greg Donald wrote:

You're
gonna restrict the entire development team from using a given  
feature

just because you don't want to invest 20 minutes in getting your
newbie developer up to spead?  That's pure idiocy.


No it's not. It's not like require_once() is a hassle to type/use
anyhow. Things like editor macros and templates help out enormously  
and

by using them over __auto load you (a business) could save yourself a
lot of time and hence money.


I actually prefer to use a site prepend and append, then in the  
prepend file is where I throw all my requires and such.  pretty much  
takes care of any learning curve since with the prepended file doing  
the heavy lifting.


But by doing so you're including a lot of code you almost certainly  
don't use on every page. That can pointlessly consume resources on a  
busy server.


I use __autoload (and for new projects the SPL version) because I know  
that anyone who can't get it within 5 minutes is not someone I want  
to work with.


Not using language features because some developers might not know  
about it is going to restrict you to the sort of instruction set you  
get in Assembler. I've been working with PHP for a very long time and  
I certainly don't claim to know everything about it or about every  
feature it has. Restrict your code in that way and you'll create a  
slow unmaintainable mess.


IMHO.

-Stut

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Re: [PHP] What's wrong the __autoload()?

[Greg Donald]

On 3/12/08, Zoltán Németh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 ok, I admit I don't have experience with Ruby but I have experience with
  php. and I don't have experience with Ruby because I read some manuals
  and example codes and whatnot and I just could not get to like it at
  all.

That's a lot different from your previous blanket statement of Ruby
as a language just plain sucks.  I hate you less now that I know a
bit more about you, see how that works?

 it's just so strange and different from anything I know (php, c,
  java) -

Ruby has a lot of functional language influence.  Once you use it you
really start to like how much shorter your iterative loops are for
example.  The first two developers I worked with using Ruby also knew
ML and Scheme.  One of them suggested I go study Scheme so I would
appreciate Ruby more.  I did so for several weeks and now I do.  Ruby
provides everything from the procedural world we're currently used to
seeing in PHP, C, and Java, but it also adds functional style that
makes for some utterly beautiful, compact code.

 and I could not find out any good reasons for most of the
  differences...

And you won't until you use it in practice more than once.  But that's
true of most any language.  I worked in Python by day for the better
part of last year and man was it fun seeing other ideas for how to do
things.

 e.g. how come function definitions are between 'def' and
  'end'?

def is shorter than PHP's function qualifier?  I give up.  'end' is
optionally replacable with '}',  as is 'do' and '{' but you probably
didn't ever get to that page in the Ruby book you read.

 I just don't like it and it's a matter of taste,

In my experience matter of taste usually equates to resistance to
learning, but call it what you will.

 so there is no
  need to argue about it more... :)

There's always reason to argue the features of a given language.  For
example you may need to try and convince me at some point that Zombie
is a great language:

http://www.dangermouse.net/esoteric/zombie.html

Or not.

  however that's not about the framework, I admit that Rails had several
  new and useful concepts, and I know that the framework I currently use
  took a lot of ideas from there.

Those other frameworks can never be as powerful as Rails because they
aren't written in something as meta-capable as Ruby.  Can you do this
in PHP?

class Foo
end

f = Foo.new

class Foo
  Resource.find( :all ).each do |r|
res = r.name.downcase
define_method( op_cost_#{ res }.to_sym ) do
  self.properties.inject( 0 ){ |c,p| c + p.send( op_cost_#{ res } ) }
end
  end
end

cost = f.op_cost_wheat

No you can't.  PHP doesn't support adding methods to classes at
runtime, nor does it support adding methods to instantiated objects of
those classes at runtime.  And that's just one example.  These sort of
OO advantages exist throughout Ruby.

You don't love these features because you don't know they exist.  You
don't know they exist because you haven't given the language more than
a few minutes of your time.  Running through some silly little 5
minute Rails scaffolding tutorial will in no way teach you the real
power that exists in Ruby.


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Re: [PHP] Storing values between multiple page forms

[Jim Lucas]

Matty Sarro wrote:

Yeah, I'm working on this with the hopes of it turning into a full module
for a larger project I'm working on... but I'm still a bit of a noob :)
Thanks for the assistance guys!

On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 11:48 AM, Daniel Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 11:11 AM, Matty Sarro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Greets all!
 I am working on a minor project for work for entering inventory

information

 for servers we ship out.

 Here is my plan:
 First page -
 Get client name, number of servers, and find number of miscellaneous
 equipment(s) being shipped (UPS's, monitors, etc)

[snip!]

 I'm still planning this out... my major concern is how would I maintain
 values between pages?

?php
session_start();
$_SESSION['value'] = $your_sanitized_value_from_POST;
$_SESSION['value2'] = $your_second_sanitized_value;
echo pre /\n;
print_r($_SESSION);
echo /pre\n;
?

   RTFM: http://php.net/session

   Keep in mind, it'll only work on the same server and same domain.
Otherwise, you may want to look into using wildcard cookies.

--
/Dan

Daniel P. Brown
Senior Unix Geek
? while(1) { $me = $mind--; sleep(86400); } ?





If you are going to follow Daniel's example, since you could potentially be 
working with more then one server on any given order, you might want to look at 
using a multi-dimensional array to store your values in.


$_SESSION['order_info'] = array();

$_SESSION['order_info']['customer_data'] = array();

$_SESSION['order_info']['customer_data']['name'] = '';

$contact_data = array();
$contact_data['type'] = 'billing';
$contact_data['address']  = '123 Someplace Ave';
$contact_data['city'] = 'New York';
$contact_data['state']= 'NY';
$contact_data['phone_number'] = '2134526523';

$_SESSION['order_info']['customer_data']['contact_data'][0] = $contact_data;

$contact_data = array();
$contact_data['address']  = 'shipping';
$contact_data['city'] = '321 Somewhere Ave';
$contact_data['state']= 'New York';
$contact_data['state']= 'NY';
$contact_data['phone_number'] = '2134526523';

$_SESSION['order_info']['customer_data']['contact_data'][1] = $contact_data;

$server['make']  = 'Dell';
$server['model'] = 'Power Edge 2400';
$server['ram']   = '2gig';
$server['hd']= '6x18g Seagate U320 SCSI';
$server['video'] = '64 ATI';

$_SESSION['order_info']['servers'][0]  = $server;

$server['make']  = 'Dell';
$server['model'] = 'Power Edge 2600';
$server['ram']   = '2gig';
$server['hd']= '3x36g Seagate U320 SCSI';
$server['video'] = '64 ATI';

$_SESSION['order_info']['servers'][1]  = $server;


As you might have guessed, I like arrays.

I would actually go as far as making arrays out of the ram, hd, etc... data. 
This would allow me to have detailed information about each section/option.


Hope this helps

--
Jim Lucas

   Some men are born to greatness, some achieve greatness,
   and some have greatness thrust upon them.

Twelfth Night, Act II, Scene V
by William Shakespeare

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Re: [PHP] Storing values between multiple page forms

[Daniel Brown]

On Wed, Mar 12, 2008 at 2:37 PM, Jim Lucas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  If you are going to follow Daniel's example, since you could potentially be
  working with more then one server on any given order, you might want to look 
 at
  using a multi-dimensional array to store your values in.

An excellent point, Jim.  I hadn't even thought to mention that,
to be honest.  That should be a great fit for what Matt's working on.

-- 
/Dan

Daniel P. Brown
Senior Unix Geek
? while(1) { $me = $mind--; sleep(86400); } ?

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[PHP] PHP CLI neat errors!

[Steve Finkelstein]

So, I use a Mac to develop with. I used to host Zend Core on my box,
until I switched to the MAMP PRO framework.

Unfortunately somewhere in between, this lovely issue started occuring
with my CLI binary of PHP:

foo:~ sf$ php -l
dyld: NSLinkModule() error
dyld: Symbol not found: _zend_extensions
 Referenced from: /usr/local/Zend/Core/lib/zend/ZendExtensionManager.so
 Expected in: flat namespace

Trace/BPT trap

I could recompile PHP because if I'm reading this properly, some
dynamically shared libraries aren't loading. Before I do that though,
was curious if anyone ever faced the same dilemma before.

Cheers!

/sf

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Re: [PHP] What's wrong the __autoload()?

[Zoltán Németh]

2008. 03. 12, szerda keltezéssel 13.27-kor Greg Donald ezt írta:
 On 3/12/08, Zoltán Németh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  ok, I admit I don't have experience with Ruby but I have experience with
   php. and I don't have experience with Ruby because I read some manuals
   and example codes and whatnot and I just could not get to like it at
   all.
 
 That's a lot different from your previous blanket statement of Ruby
 as a language just plain sucks.  I hate you less now that I know a
 bit more about you, see how that works?

didn't you notice the smiley at the end of that line? that was not a
serious plain statement but some mocking at you because you made a plain
statement about RoR being better.

 
  it's just so strange and different from anything I know (php, c,
   java) -
 
 Ruby has a lot of functional language influence.  Once you use it you
 really start to like how much shorter your iterative loops are for
 example.  The first two developers I worked with using Ruby also knew
 ML and Scheme.  One of them suggested I go study Scheme so I would
 appreciate Ruby more.  I did so for several weeks and now I do.  Ruby
 provides everything from the procedural world we're currently used to
 seeing in PHP, C, and Java, but it also adds functional style that
 makes for some utterly beautiful, compact code.

'utterly beautiful' is again a matter of taste :)
of course, I admit that Ruby would provide me all the features I
currently use, it has to, otherwise noone would start using it instead
of their current language. and yes, I see from the examples that it is
shorter. but is shortness/compactness such a great advantage? I'm not at
all sure about that.

 
  and I could not find out any good reasons for most of the
   differences...
 
 And you won't until you use it in practice more than once.  But that's
 true of most any language.  I worked in Python by day for the better
 part of last year and man was it fun seeing other ideas for how to do
 things.

that might be true, but in the last year I've been working on the same
big project, and it seems I will be working on it for this year too, you
know, next versions and such, so at this moment I don't have serious
amount of time to experiment with anything. in fact, I'm also a bit
workaholic and also I'm attending some evening university so I hardly
have time to read a manual completely...

 
  e.g. how come function definitions are between 'def' and
   'end'?
 
 def is shorter than PHP's function qualifier?  I give up.  'end' is
 optionally replacable with '}',  as is 'do' and '{' but you probably
 didn't ever get to that page in the Ruby book you read.

as I said above, I had/have not much time, so my reading might have been
sloppy... and is shortness that important?

 
  I just don't like it and it's a matter of taste,
 
 In my experience matter of taste usually equates to resistance to
 learning, but call it what you will.

well, there is difference between that. its like if you have a very
limited time frame you can spend on learning, you choose to learn more
of something you like already, no? sure, if I had more time, I would
experiment more with things I don't like or I don't know really.

 
  so there is no
   need to argue about it more... :)
 
 There's always reason to argue the features of a given language.  For
 example you may need to try and convince me at some point that Zombie
 is a great language:
 
 http://www.dangermouse.net/esoteric/zombie.html
 
 Or not.



 
   however that's not about the framework, I admit that Rails had several
   new and useful concepts, and I know that the framework I currently use
   took a lot of ideas from there.
 
 Those other frameworks can never be as powerful as Rails because they
 aren't written in something as meta-capable as Ruby.  Can you do this
 in PHP?
 
 class Foo
 end
 
 f = Foo.new
 
 class Foo
   Resource.find( :all ).each do |r|
 res = r.name.downcase
 define_method( op_cost_#{ res }.to_sym ) do
   self.properties.inject( 0 ){ |c,p| c + p.send( op_cost_#{ res } ) }
 end
   end
 end
 
 cost = f.op_cost_wheat
 
 No you can't.  PHP doesn't support adding methods to classes at
 runtime, nor does it support adding methods to instantiated objects of
 those classes at runtime.  And that's just one example.  These sort of
 OO advantages exist throughout Ruby.
 
 You don't love these features because you don't know they exist.  You
 don't know they exist because you haven't given the language more than
 a few minutes of your time.  Running through some silly little 5
 minute Rails scaffolding tutorial will in no way teach you the real
 power that exists in Ruby.

hmm that feature looks interesting, however I can't really think of a
case where I would want to modify the class definition of an
instantiated object maybe later, when I'll have some more time I
give Ruby a second run, and we'll see what comes out of that.

greets,
Zoltán Németh

 
 
 -- 
 Greg Donald
 http://destiney.com/
 


-- 

RE: [PHP] What's wrong the __autoload()?

[Andrés Robinet]

 -Original Message-
 From: Robert Cummings [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 1:51 PM
 To: Zoltán Németh
 Cc: Greg Donald; php-general@lists.php.net
 Subject: Re: [PHP] What's wrong the __autoload()?
 
 
 On Wed, 2008-03-12 at 18:21 +0100, Zoltán Németh wrote:
  2008. 03. 12, szerda keltezéssel 12.12-kor Greg Donald ezt írta:
   On 3/12/08, Zoltán Németh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
but I strongly think that Ruby as a
language just plain sucks ;)
  
   And exactly how many projects do you have under your belt to allow you
   to develop this opinion?  What's the url to any one of them?
  
   Unlike you I actually have thousands of lines of Ruby code under my
   belt that allows me to properly develop an opinion of Ruby and Rails
   and how they both compare to every other programming language and
   framework I know and have developed in.  Need a URL?
 
  ok, I admit I don't have experience with Ruby but I have experience with
  php. and I don't have experience with Ruby because I read some manuals
  and example codes and whatnot and I just could not get to like it at
  all. it's just so strange and different from anything I know (php, c,
  java) - and I could not find out any good reasons for most of the
  differences... e.g. how come function definitions are between 'def' and
  'end'?
 
 Because they didn't follow convention... *HAHAHA* oh my, I think I just
 pee'd myself.
 
 Cheers,
 Rob.
 --
 http://www.interjinn.com
 Application and Templating Framework for PHP
 
 

I think __autoload would make much more sense if it worked like an event 
registration feature. Such as:

function myAutoloadCallback($className) {
if ($className == 'ShakeItBaby') {
require_once 'ShakeItBaby.class.php';
return true;
}
return false;
}
.

__autoloadRegisterCallback('myAutoloadCallback');
.

$shaker = new ShakeItBaby();

This way, multiple frameworks and project requirements for autoload wouldn't 
clash. If one of the autoload callbacks returns true that would be it. 
Otherwise the next autoload callback would be called, and so on.

The problem with the current implementation is that if you get some piece of 
code that uses __autoload and you are using __autoload too, you'll have to 
either patch that piece of code (if the piece of code is a framework, things 
will get much more complicated when updating to the next version) or patch your 
own code, or just make a promise not to use __autoload (my current choice... 
just in case) or not to use pieces of code that use __autoload. Bottom line, 
I hate it.

Something similar applies to the set_error_handling function, anyone can 
overwrite your error handling and you can overwrite the error handling of 
anyone. I hate it also, so I rather check the return value of functions, and/or 
use exceptions for custom error handling.

I don't see why autoload and error handling can't be implemented in a 
stack-like way, returning false from the callback moves to the next error 
handler / autoloader, returning true ends the handler search process... 
though this is more of a question to be made to the interlals list (b... 
can't face their karma yet).

Anyway... the more PHP approaches OOP and gets OOP features, the more it can be 
done through design patterns such as the Registry/Singleton/etc... and the more 
Exceptions are used for PECL extensions, and this seems the trend for the 
future of PHP.

Regards,

Rob(inet)

Andrés Robinet | Lead Developer | BESTPLACE CORPORATION 
5100 Bayview Drive 206, Royal Lauderdale Landings, Fort Lauderdale, FL 33308 | 
TEL 954-607-4296 | FAX 954-337-2695 | 
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  | MSN Chat: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  |  SKYPE: bestplace |  
Web: bestplace.biz  | Web: seo-diy.com





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RE: [PHP] What's wrong the __autoload()?

[Stephane Ulysse]

Anyone know any PHP Developers who are looking for employment

-Original Message-
From: Andrés Robinet [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 2:53 PM
To: 'Robert Cummings'; 'Zoltán Németh'
Cc: 'Greg Donald'; php-general@lists.php.net
Subject: RE: [PHP] What's wrong the __autoload()?

 -Original Message-
 From: Robert Cummings [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 1:51 PM
 To: Zoltán Németh
 Cc: Greg Donald; php-general@lists.php.net
 Subject: Re: [PHP] What's wrong the __autoload()?
 
 
 On Wed, 2008-03-12 at 18:21 +0100, Zoltán Németh wrote:
  2008. 03. 12, szerda keltezéssel 12.12-kor Greg Donald ezt írta:
   On 3/12/08, Zoltán Németh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
but I strongly think that Ruby as a
language just plain sucks ;)
  
   And exactly how many projects do you have under your belt to allow you
   to develop this opinion?  What's the url to any one of them?
  
   Unlike you I actually have thousands of lines of Ruby code under my
   belt that allows me to properly develop an opinion of Ruby and Rails
   and how they both compare to every other programming language and
   framework I know and have developed in.  Need a URL?
 
  ok, I admit I don't have experience with Ruby but I have experience with
  php. and I don't have experience with Ruby because I read some manuals
  and example codes and whatnot and I just could not get to like it at
  all. it's just so strange and different from anything I know (php, c,
  java) - and I could not find out any good reasons for most of the
  differences... e.g. how come function definitions are between 'def' and
  'end'?
 
 Because they didn't follow convention... *HAHAHA* oh my, I think I just
 pee'd myself.
 
 Cheers,
 Rob.
 --
 http://www.interjinn.com
 Application and Templating Framework for PHP
 
 

I think __autoload would make much more sense if it worked like an event 
registration feature. Such as:

function myAutoloadCallback($className) {
if ($className == 'ShakeItBaby') {
require_once 'ShakeItBaby.class.php';
return true;
}
return false;
}
.

__autoloadRegisterCallback('myAutoloadCallback');
.

$shaker = new ShakeItBaby();

This way, multiple frameworks and project requirements for autoload wouldn't 
clash. If one of the autoload callbacks returns true that would be it. 
Otherwise the next autoload callback would be called, and so on.

The problem with the current implementation is that if you get some piece of 
code that uses __autoload and you are using __autoload too, you'll have to 
either patch that piece of code (if the piece of code is a framework, things 
will get much more complicated when updating to the next version) or patch your 
own code, or just make a promise not to use __autoload (my current choice... 
just in case) or not to use pieces of code that use __autoload. Bottom line, 
I hate it.

Something similar applies to the set_error_handling function, anyone can 
overwrite your error handling and you can overwrite the error handling of 
anyone. I hate it also, so I rather check the return value of functions, and/or 
use exceptions for custom error handling.

I don't see why autoload and error handling can't be implemented in a 
stack-like way, returning false from the callback moves to the next error 
handler / autoloader, returning true ends the handler search process... 
though this is more of a question to be made to the interlals list (b... 
can't face their karma yet).

Anyway... the more PHP approaches OOP and gets OOP features, the more it can be 
done through design patterns such as the Registry/Singleton/etc... and the more 
Exceptions are used for PECL extensions, and this seems the trend for the 
future of PHP.

Regards,

Rob(inet)

Andrés Robinet | Lead Developer | BESTPLACE CORPORATION 
5100 Bayview Drive 206, Royal Lauderdale Landings, Fort Lauderdale, FL 33308 | 
TEL 954-607-4296 | FAX 954-337-2695 | 
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  | MSN Chat: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  |  SKYPE: bestplace |  
Web: bestplace.biz  | Web: seo-diy.com





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RE: [PHP] What's wrong the __autoload()?

[Zoltán Németh]

2008. 03. 12, szerda keltezéssel 15.07-kor Stephane Ulysse ezt írta:
 Anyone know any PHP Developers who are looking for employment

don't hijack other people's threads, start your own if you want to ask
anything.

and job offers should contain some information about the job and the
employer, and the subject line should be relevant to your question, and
etc etc etc

greets,
Zoltán Németh

 
 -Original Message-
 From: Andrés Robinet [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 2:53 PM
 To: 'Robert Cummings'; 'Zoltán Németh'
 Cc: 'Greg Donald'; php-general@lists.php.net
 Subject: RE: [PHP] What's wrong the __autoload()?
 
  -Original Message-
  From: Robert Cummings [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 1:51 PM
  To: Zoltán Németh
  Cc: Greg Donald; php-general@lists.php.net
  Subject: Re: [PHP] What's wrong the __autoload()?
  
  
  On Wed, 2008-03-12 at 18:21 +0100, Zoltán Németh wrote:
   2008. 03. 12, szerda keltezéssel 12.12-kor Greg Donald ezt írta:
On 3/12/08, Zoltán Németh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 but I strongly think that Ruby as a
 language just plain sucks ;)
   
And exactly how many projects do you have under your belt to allow you
to develop this opinion?  What's the url to any one of them?
   
Unlike you I actually have thousands of lines of Ruby code under my
belt that allows me to properly develop an opinion of Ruby and Rails
and how they both compare to every other programming language and
framework I know and have developed in.  Need a URL?
  
   ok, I admit I don't have experience with Ruby but I have experience with
   php. and I don't have experience with Ruby because I read some manuals
   and example codes and whatnot and I just could not get to like it at
   all. it's just so strange and different from anything I know (php, c,
   java) - and I could not find out any good reasons for most of the
   differences... e.g. how come function definitions are between 'def' and
   'end'?
  
  Because they didn't follow convention... *HAHAHA* oh my, I think I just
  pee'd myself.
  
  Cheers,
  Rob.
  --
  http://www.interjinn.com
  Application and Templating Framework for PHP
  
  
 
 I think __autoload would make much more sense if it worked like an event 
 registration feature. Such as:
 
 function myAutoloadCallback($className) {
   if ($className == 'ShakeItBaby') {
   require_once 'ShakeItBaby.class.php';
   return true;
   }
   return false;
 }
 .
 
 __autoloadRegisterCallback('myAutoloadCallback');
 .
 
 $shaker = new ShakeItBaby();
 
 This way, multiple frameworks and project requirements for autoload wouldn't 
 clash. If one of the autoload callbacks returns true that would be it. 
 Otherwise the next autoload callback would be called, and so on.
 
 The problem with the current implementation is that if you get some piece of 
 code that uses __autoload and you are using __autoload too, you'll have to 
 either patch that piece of code (if the piece of code is a framework, 
 things will get much more complicated when updating to the next version) or 
 patch your own code, or just make a promise not to use __autoload (my current 
 choice... just in case) or not to use pieces of code that use __autoload. 
 Bottom line, I hate it.
 
 Something similar applies to the set_error_handling function, anyone can 
 overwrite your error handling and you can overwrite the error handling of 
 anyone. I hate it also, so I rather check the return value of functions, 
 and/or use exceptions for custom error handling.
 
 I don't see why autoload and error handling can't be implemented in a 
 stack-like way, returning false from the callback moves to the next error 
 handler / autoloader, returning true ends the handler search process... 
 though this is more of a question to be made to the interlals list (b... 
 can't face their karma yet).
 
 Anyway... the more PHP approaches OOP and gets OOP features, the more it can 
 be done through design patterns such as the Registry/Singleton/etc... and the 
 more Exceptions are used for PECL extensions, and this seems the trend for 
 the future of PHP.
 
 Regards,
 
 Rob(inet)
 
 Andrés Robinet | Lead Developer | BESTPLACE CORPORATION 
 5100 Bayview Drive 206, Royal Lauderdale Landings, Fort Lauderdale, FL 33308 
 | TEL 954-607-4296 | FAX 954-337-2695 | 
 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  | MSN Chat: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  |  SKYPE: bestplace 
 |  Web: bestplace.biz  | Web: seo-diy.com
 
 
 
 
 


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Re: [PHP] What's wrong the __autoload()?

[Nathan Nobbe]

On Wed, Mar 12, 2008 at 2:53 PM, Andrés Robinet [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 I think __autoload would make much more sense if it worked like an event
 registration feature. Such as:

 function myAutoloadCallback($className) {
if ($className == 'ShakeItBaby') {
require_once 'ShakeItBaby.class.php';
return true;
}
return false;
 }
 .

 __autoloadRegisterCallback('myAutoloadCallback');
 .

 $shaker = new ShakeItBaby();

 This way, multiple frameworks and project requirements for autoload
 wouldn't clash. If one of the autoload callbacks returns true that would
 be it. Otherwise the next autoload callback would be called, and so on.

 The problem with the current implementation is that if you get some piece
 of code that uses __autoload and you are using __autoload too, you'll have
 to either patch that piece of code (if the piece of code is a framework,
 things will get much more complicated when updating to the next version) or
 patch your own code, or just make a promise not to use __autoload (my
 current choice... just in case) or not to use pieces of code that use
 __autoload. Bottom line, I hate it.


as eric pointed out earlier, thats what spl_autoload_register is for;
http://us.php.net/manual/en/function.spl-autoload-register.php

-nathan

Re: [PHP] What's wrong the __autoload()?

[Greg Donald]

On 3/12/08, Zoltán Németh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I can't really think of a
 case where I would want to modify the class definition of an
 instantiated object

You can't very well think to walk if you don't have legs.


-- 
Greg Donald
http://destiney.com/

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Re: [PHP] What's wrong the __autoload()?

[Robert Cummings]

On Wed, 2008-03-12 at 14:09 -0500, Greg Donald wrote:
 On 3/12/08, Zoltán Németh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  I can't really think of a
  case where I would want to modify the class definition of an
  instantiated object
 
 You can't very well think to walk if you don't have legs.

You make it sound like this stuff is new or something. Lisp and other
functional languages have had it for decades. Even JavaScript has it.
Your analogy is also way off... ask any person without legs if they
think about walking. These features of which you speak, someone thought
of them (walking) long before they were implemented into a language
(legs). But just because you think of walking and implement legs to do
so, doesn't mean you can't think of flying, swimming, teleporting, etc.
None of which require legs.

Cheers,
Rob.
-- 
http://www.interjinn.com
Application and Templating Framework for PHP


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Re: [PHP] What's wrong the __autoload()?

[Zoltán Németh]

2008. 03. 12, szerda keltezéssel 15.20-kor Robert Cummings ezt írta:
 Even JavaScript has it.

oh yes, I could have thought of that. in JS you can assign a function to
a property or variable at runtime, even I did something similar, when I
assign the action functions of the buttons of a modal dialog
dynamically. it's good because the same simple JS library can handle any
number of use cases, and my main page with the JS libraries load only
once, ajax does the rest of stuff, so I could not change the class
definition for the separate cases.
but on server side, why not throw everything you might need in the class
definition?

greets,
Zoltán Németh


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Re: [PHP] What's wrong the __autoload()?

[Nathan Nobbe]

On Wed, Mar 12, 2008 at 3:35 PM, Zoltán Németh [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 2008. 03. 12, szerda keltezéssel 15.20-kor Robert Cummings ezt írta:
  Even JavaScript has it.

 oh yes, I could have thought of that. in JS you can assign a function to
 a property or variable at runtime, even I did something similar, when I
 assign the action functions of the buttons of a modal dialog
 dynamically. it's good because the same simple JS library can handle any
 number of use cases, and my main page with the JS libraries load only
 once, ajax does the rest of stuff, so I could not change the class
 definition for the separate cases.
 but on server side, why not throw everything you might need in the class
 definition?


javascript has this neat concept of execution context.  so a single function
can work w/ any 'class' or more precisely, any object.

a = {d : 5};
b = {d : 6};
function c() { alert(this.d); }
c.apply(a);
c.apply(b);

quite interesting.

-nathan

Re: [PHP] What's wrong the __autoload()?

[Greg Donald]

On 3/12/08, Robert Cummings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 You make it sound like this stuff is new or something.

Obviously to some it is.  Just in this thread we had a person claim to
only know PHP, C, and Java, none of which have any functional language
capabilities built in.

 Lisp and other
  functional languages have had it for decades. Even JavaScript has it.

I'm sorry, I lost context, what missing PHP language feature are you
referring to as it?

  Your analogy is also way off... ask any person without legs if they
  think about walking.

Here, let me dumb-it-down a bit:

PHP doesn't have much in the way of meta-programming capabilities.
Therefore one would not find it a natural thought to do much
meta-programming in PHP, unless one already knew of a language where
such support exists.

A different example using the same logic: My Mustang doesn't have
4-wheel drive so I don't often think much about taking it through the
creeks and woods by my house like my old man and I do in his Bronco
that does have 4-wheel drive.  A person who has never climbed a really
steep hill or ran through a waist-high creek in a 4-wheel drive auto
might think such a thing impossible if they were unaware of 4-wheel
drive.


-- 
Greg Donald
http://destiney.com/

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RE: [PHP] What's wrong the __autoload()?

[Andrés Robinet]

 -Original Message-
 From: Nathan Nobbe [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 3:08 PM
 To: Andrés Robinet
 Cc: Robert Cummings; Zoltán Németh; Greg Donald; php-general@lists.php.net
 Subject: Re: [PHP] What's wrong the __autoload()?
 
 On Wed, Mar 12, 2008 at 2:53 PM, Andrés Robinet [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
 
  I think __autoload would make much more sense if it worked like an event
  registration feature. Such as:
 
  function myAutoloadCallback($className) {
 if ($className == 'ShakeItBaby') {
 require_once 'ShakeItBaby.class.php';
 return true;
 }
 return false;
  }
  .
 
  __autoloadRegisterCallback('myAutoloadCallback');
  .
 
  $shaker = new ShakeItBaby();
 
  This way, multiple frameworks and project requirements for autoload
  wouldn't clash. If one of the autoload callbacks returns true that
 would
  be it. Otherwise the next autoload callback would be called, and so on.
 
  The problem with the current implementation is that if you get some piece
  of code that uses __autoload and you are using __autoload too, you'll
 have
  to either patch that piece of code (if the piece of code is a
 framework,
  things will get much more complicated when updating to the next version)
 or
  patch your own code, or just make a promise not to use __autoload (my
  current choice... just in case) or not to use pieces of code that use
  __autoload. Bottom line, I hate it.
 
 
 as eric pointed out earlier, thats what spl_autoload_register is for;
 http://us.php.net/manual/en/function.spl-autoload-register.php
 
 -nathan

I know, I was talking about the old/regular __autoload feature. You need PHP 
5 for spl_autoload_register... but having all PHP 5's nice OOP features, you 
probably want to code a class/file/function/resource loader class (like ZF 
does) which can do much more. For PHP 4, you are stuck. But anyway, PHP 4 is 
dying... or seems to be.
And don't speak about SPL, I had the worst of disappointments with 
ArrayObject... since then I got divorced with it (probably will marry it again 
in the future, my ancestors are French, you know French people are 
passionate... and they like cooking too).

Now, what about set_error_handler? Maybe it's something to discuss in it's own 
thread, I don't know.

Anyway, anyway, anyway must get back to regular work :(

See you later,

Rob(inet)

Andrés Robinet | Lead Developer | BESTPLACE CORPORATION 
5100 Bayview Drive 206, Royal Lauderdale Landings, Fort Lauderdale, FL 33308 | 
TEL 954-607-4296 | FAX 954-337-2695 | 
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  | MSN Chat: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  |  SKYPE: bestplace |  
Web: bestplace.biz  | Web: seo-diy.com




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Re: [PHP] What's wrong the __autoload()?

[Aschwin Wesselius]

Greg Donald wrote:

Here, let me dumb-it-down a bit:

PHP doesn't have much in the way of meta-programming capabilities.
Therefore one would not find it a natural thought to do much
meta-programming in PHP, unless one already knew of a language where
such support exists.

A different example using the same logic: My Mustang doesn't have
4-wheel drive so I don't often think much about taking it through the
creeks and woods by my house like my old man and I do in his Bronco
that does have 4-wheel drive.  A person who has never climbed a really
steep hill or ran through a waist-high creek in a 4-wheel drive auto
might think such a thing impossible if they were unaware of 4-wheel
drive.


LOL well said.

Aschwin Wesselius


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Re: [PHP] What's wrong the __autoload()?

[Nathan Nobbe]

On Wed, Mar 12, 2008 at 3:59 PM, Greg Donald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  Lisp and other
   functional languages have had it for decades. Even JavaScript has it.

 I'm sorry, I lost context, what missing PHP language feature are you
 referring to as it?


functional capabilities, in particular the ability to dynamically add a
method to an object at runtime which you highlighted earlier.

-nathan